Speaker 1: Hey, what is up everybody?
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Guiltiest Charge Podcast, presented by the Chargers
Speaker 2: Podcast Network. My name is Stephen and I am the
Speaker 2: host as always and joining me Joining me is my
Speaker 2: guy Tyler. Tyler, what's on man doing tonight?
Speaker 3: Yippi k Melon Farmer? It is Cowboys week. I am excited.
Speaker 3: It was nice having a bye week, you know, he
Speaker 3: didn't have to cover anything really over back Monday night
Speaker 3: football is here. Steven. How are you doing.
Speaker 1: I'm doing great.
Speaker 2: I think I understand where the pop culture references to
Speaker 2: that one, so I missed the one from last week,
Speaker 2: So I'm doing great.
Speaker 1: Man. You know, it's been been a nice week.
Speaker 2: To recharge, you know, for our Chargers audience. I went
Speaker 2: back to Utah visits some family for my brother's wedding
Speaker 2: and you know, got away from the screen for a
Speaker 2: little bit and it was great. So we obviously did
Speaker 2: have to cover a trade last week, which we are
Speaker 2: going to dive into a little bit more today. We
Speaker 2: do have Brad Spielberger from Pro Football Focus joining us
Speaker 2: for about twenty minutes or so on on this episode,
Speaker 2: picked his brain a little bit about the financial side
Speaker 2: of things. After the JC Jackson trade and then just
Speaker 2: you know, had some great conversation about the Chargers and
Speaker 2: the rest of the season, and you know, it was
Speaker 2: a great time talking with Brad today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Brad's awesome. Sometimes listening to either Argent or Brad
Speaker 3: is like listening to my grandpa talk about military history,
Speaker 3: where they just rattle off information. Are you just sitting
Speaker 3: there like uh huh, yep, totally makes sense. You can
Speaker 3: just kind of nod your head. And Brad's one of
Speaker 3: the best, and for a reason. He knew everything right
Speaker 3: off the top of his head. He knew the Charger's
Speaker 3: red zone efficiency right off the top of his head.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's awesome and it's an honor to have
Speaker 3: him on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the preparation definitely stands out. I for like the
Speaker 2: financial stuff, Like I have to re listen to Argent
Speaker 2: and Brad like a few times and like all texts
Speaker 2: Argent throughout the week, okay, like what does this mean?
Speaker 2: Like okay, like what is this? Like where do they
Speaker 2: get this are from? And you know, I really respect
Speaker 2: guys who just like they're they're so tuned in and
Speaker 2: dialed into too stuff like that. So I had a
Speaker 2: great conversation with Brad, and we're excited to get get
Speaker 2: to that here in a minute. First and foremost, Tyler
Speaker 2: and I are fans of the team, just like you
Speaker 2: guys are. We've been granted this platform and are very
Speaker 2: grateful for it. But the opinions that we express on
Speaker 2: this show, on this platform are strictly our own. They
Speaker 2: are not the opinion of the Chargers organization themselves. This
Speaker 2: is our outlet for us to talk about charge of
Speaker 2: Football and we're and we're grateful for it, but the
Speaker 2: opinions are strictly our owned. So that being said, let's
Speaker 2: get to this interview with mister Brad spielbergerper thrilled to
Speaker 2: be joined by mister Brad Spielberger from Pro Football Focused.
Speaker 2: He is one of the best in the business when
Speaker 2: it comes to breaking down the cap, breaking down the
Speaker 2: economics side of the NFL, and we're super excited to
Speaker 2: have him on today. Well, we'll talk about some of
Speaker 2: the J. C. Jackson stuff, Like I said, some of
Speaker 2: the repercussions from that trade, and then we'll also get
Speaker 2: some of Brad's And now I'm just kind of the
Speaker 2: rest of the season. I know everybody's kind of talking
Speaker 2: about trades and who's good, who's bad, all this stuff,
Speaker 2: So we'll we'll pick Brad's brain a lot about all
Speaker 2: of that, and excited to have him on here.
Speaker 1: So Brad, thanks for joining us. Man. How you doing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks much for having me doing well, Like you said,
Speaker 4: just getting ready for trade deadline season and all that madness.
Speaker 4: But yeah, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3: I'm kind of fan here because we have you know Argent,
Speaker 3: of course, we know Argin. We all know Argent of
Speaker 3: work with Argin and he said nothing but great things.
Speaker 3: I'm kind of fan boying here because my reputation, you're
Speaker 3: the best. And anyone who's looked at cat projections or
Speaker 3: contract projections like if they're good, it's Brad. So I'm
Speaker 3: excited to have you on here.
Speaker 5: Well, very very kind. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've I've had the pleasure of interviewering Brad on
Speaker 1: our channel.
Speaker 2: This is Tyler's first time, you know, I usually do
Speaker 2: the interviews on my own on our channel. So excited
Speaker 2: to have Brad joined both of us today. So let's
Speaker 2: jump into this JC Jackson conversation. Obviously, you know the
Speaker 2: team has moved on from like a dialogue standpoint and
Speaker 2: Michael Davis was talking about it, but fans are asking us,
Speaker 2: so we're going to ask you just kind of the
Speaker 2: financial repercussions from this.
Speaker 1: I know that there was there's.
Speaker 2: Always a lot of you know, financial talk that gets
Speaker 2: tweeted out whenever these transactions happens, whenever a contract extension
Speaker 2: gets done.
Speaker 1: In terms of the.
Speaker 2: Short term impact of trading J. C. Jackson, what is
Speaker 2: the impact if any, for the Charters cap sheet.
Speaker 5: For twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4: You do clear a little bit of money, the one
Speaker 4: point five to five million dollars in salary that traveled
Speaker 4: to New England. You know, basically what they did is
Speaker 4: they converted that all out, spread it over the cap
Speaker 4: and then traded him. That's how a lot of these
Speaker 4: deadline deals get done. I guess this isn't really a
Speaker 4: deadline deal, but you know is the inquiring team doesn't
Speaker 4: want to bring in that big salary, and a situation
Speaker 4: like this, obviously they're not going to bring in that
Speaker 4: big salary. So the inherent team, you know, converts it
Speaker 4: all that way, it stays on their books and then
Speaker 4: sends a smaller salary across the table. So, yeah, nine
Speaker 4: point six million dollar dead cap this year and then
Speaker 4: a twenty point eight million dollar dead cap pit next year.
Speaker 4: So we're talking over thirty million dollars in cap hit,
Speaker 4: you know, for for New England Patriots cornerback J C.
Speaker 5: Jackson.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Explain to me again, why is it that they
Speaker 3: have twenty point eight million dollars in dead cap next
Speaker 3: year because of this trade? Like I see it, I
Speaker 3: sort of get it, but you can explain it better.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So before this trade it went down, you already had
Speaker 4: the signing bonus was pro rated over the five years
Speaker 4: of the deal, so there was already I want to say,
Speaker 4: fifteen million dollars, is that right? Twenty five million dollars
Speaker 4: signing bonus? Think that sounds right.
Speaker 5: So basically where it works is let's say that's what
Speaker 5: it is. I think it's what it was.
Speaker 4: If you give a guy a twenty five million dollars
Speaker 4: signing bonus on a five year deal, there's gonna be
Speaker 4: five million dollar cap hits in all five years of
Speaker 4: the deal. Those don't go away, they don't disappear. They're
Speaker 4: still there. So when you trade him in his second season,
Speaker 4: the five million dollars in the third through fifth year
Speaker 4: they would all hit the cap next year. And then
Speaker 4: also because of what I just talked about, because you
Speaker 4: converted you know, the lion's share of his remains salary,
Speaker 4: I want to say, over ten million dollars. You know,
Speaker 4: that also gets spread out, so some of that hits
Speaker 4: this year, and then the majority of it actually hits
Speaker 4: the last three years because you're spreading that over four
Speaker 4: remaining years in that situation, and three fourths of it
Speaker 4: will hit in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Gotch.
Speaker 2: So the relief from this, from getting off of this
Speaker 2: contract is more so a twenty twenty five thing than
Speaker 2: it would be a twenty twenty four thing.
Speaker 1: Is that is am I understanding that correctly?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean the relief really is just is just saving
Speaker 4: one point five million dollars in salary for this year
Speaker 4: because obviously, you know, in twenty twenty five, hypothetically he'd
Speaker 4: have no guaranteed salary remaining, you would still have the
Speaker 4: dead cap hits you know, of ten million dollars at
Speaker 4: that point. So yeah, I suppose so. But but really
Speaker 4: what's al's happening is all that is accelerating up into
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, and it's kind of a zero sum game,
Speaker 4: because you then can't carry over that cap space into
Speaker 4: the following year. Right, you can carry over unused cap
Speaker 4: space from a certain season into the following year. So
Speaker 4: you either haven't twenty you either have the dead cap
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty five, or haven't twenty twenty four, but
Speaker 4: you have less you know, carryover cap. So it's kind
Speaker 4: of yeah, I mean the relief is just having him
Speaker 4: off the roster and just and just moving on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, difficult either way. There one thing that I wasn't
Speaker 3: sure how much you know of. I certainly don't. There's
Speaker 3: this sort of talk going around that the Chargers could
Speaker 3: potentially file like a grievance or something. I think they're
Speaker 3: mostly going to be past that. I think they've washed
Speaker 3: their hands and moved on. But just ask you, because
Speaker 3: you are here now. It is going off of a report.
Speaker 3: We don't know this one hundred percent to be sure,
Speaker 3: but it is Ian Rappaport and they did the work
Speaker 3: there to talk about how jac would refuse to go
Speaker 3: on the field Week four against the Raiders. So if
Speaker 3: it were a thing, and if the Chargers were to
Speaker 3: pursue this, what is that? What does that entail?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So Look, those guys don't say stuff like that by accident.
Speaker 4: You know, they often will put stuff out there that
Speaker 4: kind of helps build a case and build a potential narrative.
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean, the grievance would be refusing to.
Speaker 4: You know, provide some services, which is the player participating
Speaker 4: in football games on all these little kind of nitpicky
Speaker 4: and like wishy washy and stuff like that. It's very
Speaker 4: very hard to do. They could file agrievance, they'd probably
Speaker 4: be going after. Essentially, the teams can try to go
Speaker 4: after the signing bonus money that it look they already
Speaker 4: paid the signing bonus, but you're allowed to go after
Speaker 4: those proation amounts I just talked about. So you could say,
Speaker 4: all right, for the fifteen million dollars owed from twenty
Speaker 4: four to twenty six, we could try to recoup that.
Speaker 4: It's very very hard to accomplish. Like if you do
Speaker 4: get cash back from the player, which I've talked to
Speaker 4: teams in ages about this almost never happens, like they try,
Speaker 4: but good luck with that. If you do get that
Speaker 4: cash back, you would be able to get not only
Speaker 4: a cash relief but also a salary cap credit.
Speaker 5: But there's a whole long process.
Speaker 4: While you're during the grievance, there's a hold on your
Speaker 4: salary and you know, thirty percent or forty percent of
Speaker 4: your salary at the time. It's a whole convoluted process.
Speaker 4: My guess is they just kind of clean their hands.
Speaker 1: And move on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's certainly sounds that way too. And we'll get
Speaker 2: to some of the onfield stuff. I'm curious now because
Speaker 2: we've we've seen some other trades happening recently too, the
Speaker 2: like swapping of the seventh round and the sixth round pick.
Speaker 2: What does that really equate to if anything, from like
Speaker 2: a draft capital perspective.
Speaker 4: It's effectively a wash, really, right, I mean, once you
Speaker 4: get outside of the first I would say four rounds
Speaker 4: in my opinion, Not that those picks are not worth anything,
Speaker 4: they of course are. You're gonna find gems, You're gonna
Speaker 4: find good players in the later rounds. But like swapping
Speaker 4: a sixth for a seventh your board, you know, each
Speaker 4: team's board could have players that are one hundred picks
Speaker 4: or fifty picks apart. So like it kind of is
Speaker 4: it's really the NFL's version of a salary dump trade, right,
Speaker 4: Like we see it in the NBA, it's obviously, you know,
Speaker 4: a whole different construct and a good player and a
Speaker 4: first round pick maybe goes somewhere because he's not a
Speaker 4: great player and it's not worth this massive contract he's on.
Speaker 4: This is effectively the NFL's version. You're really just saying,
Speaker 4: we want to get some cash and cap relief, and
Speaker 4: we're just swapping picks as something of a formality. Obviously,
Speaker 4: you know, you move up around, which is nice. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean my trade chart probably has it as a
Speaker 4: net benefit of less than a draft pick, you know,
Speaker 4: because that because those late rounds are just so, you know,
Speaker 4: so kind of cheap.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense. Let's let's continue with the theme
Speaker 3: of trades them while we're on this now. The Chargers
Speaker 3: obviously trading away a player. There was sort of a
Speaker 3: rumor circulating about them being interested in Chase Claypool. There
Speaker 3: are plenty of bad NFC teams right now, and some
Speaker 3: of them are looking for quarterbacks next year and a
Speaker 3: very good quarterback class. Do you see any of those
Speaker 3: teams being active? And I guess in particular, is there
Speaker 3: anybody in particular or a position in particular the Chargers
Speaker 3: could be looking at as you kind of assess the
Speaker 3: needs that they currently have heading to the rest of
Speaker 3: the season.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think sticking with wide receiver, there's
Speaker 4: probably a couple of teams. You know, you're probably not
Speaker 4: going to engage with Denver just because you're in the division.
Speaker 4: But I think you look at Carolina like there are
Speaker 4: some talented players like Terras Marshall and Carolina played zero
Speaker 4: snaps this past week and at nine catches in Week four.
Speaker 4: Kind of a bizarre you know, that stuff kind of
Speaker 4: raises your sensors and it should have the antenna go up.
Speaker 4: Kind of wondering why.
Speaker 5: That is the case.
Speaker 4: So I think he's a good player too, a former
Speaker 4: second round pick and obviously has kind of an in
Speaker 4: and out of the lineup, but when he does play,
Speaker 4: he's fairly productive. So I think that's one answer there. Look,
Speaker 4: I think the draft class, like Tooley playing well probably
Speaker 4: eliminates the need to add a rotational pass rusher a
Speaker 4: third guy there. Obviously, Khalil Mack had a historic week
Speaker 4: the other weekend, so that's always good to see. And
Speaker 4: Joey Bosas dealing with the tow and whatever. But I
Speaker 4: think we'll get back in the mix there. But look,
Speaker 4: I mean this is one of the more expensive rosters
Speaker 4: in the NFL. I don't think they're making any sort
Speaker 4: of big time move. I think, yeah, like a terrorist
Speaker 4: Marshall at corner. I've been asked as a bunch like,
Speaker 4: it's hard to think of a name of a solid
Speaker 4: starting cornerback. The only name out with we're out there,
Speaker 4: and I guess he probably did. Now he missed Brandon
Speaker 4: Stale in Chicago. But Jalen Johnson with the Chicago Bears,
Speaker 4: I do think is the one name that I think
Speaker 4: is a would provide an upgrade to a lot of
Speaker 4: football teams as a good outside corner that I think
Speaker 4: is probably actually available.
Speaker 5: So maybe him as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're kind of you know, talking about this without
Speaker 2: talking about it, right for the Chargers and what they're
Speaker 2: looking for for a potential like trade target, right is
Speaker 2: somebody that's cheap, somebody that's young, somebody that's on an
Speaker 2: expiring deal. You know, there's a lot of requests out
Speaker 2: there that we get for these guys who are on
Speaker 2: you know, three year contracts and things like that. But
Speaker 2: you know, with all these ramifications from the JC trade
Speaker 2: and all the restructuring, Like it's the guys who are
Speaker 2: cheap or on expiring deals that really should be the
Speaker 2: focus for this team.
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I mean, you want to make a push
Speaker 4: this year. You obviously have a lot of older players
Speaker 4: that might not be on the roster next year. I still,
Speaker 4: I know we'll get into it a little bit here.
Speaker 4: I still think they're they're fine. They're two and two.
Speaker 4: They could go into the buy at the perfect time.
Speaker 4: You know that they're alive and the thick of things.
Speaker 4: I mean, plenty of AFC teams have not really made
Speaker 4: the most of the early portion of the season, so
Speaker 4: you know it's not they're in their own company. But yes, no,
Speaker 4: if they're making a trade for me, it's a guy
Speaker 4: on a rookie contract, like you said, probably the fourth
Speaker 4: year of a rookie contract.
Speaker 5: That's the target.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's talk about the rest of the team and
Speaker 3: the rest of the year. So we they're obviously at
Speaker 3: two and two. I think Steven had them going ten
Speaker 3: and seven, and the rest of the way I had
Speaker 3: them at nine and eight. I still can't get over
Speaker 3: the seventeen game thing. I can't do the math with that.
Speaker 3: I am slightly more pessimistic than Steven. But I guess
Speaker 3: the quote unquote good news is the rest of the
Speaker 3: AFC in front of them has not really been quite
Speaker 3: what we thought it was going to be, certainly not
Speaker 3: with Cincinnati, the Steelers, the Patriots of course, the Jets
Speaker 3: losing Aaron Rodgers. Where do you kind of see the
Speaker 3: Chargers filling in the rest of the way here, I
Speaker 3: think we all meeting Stephen having still making the playoffs,
Speaker 3: still being you know, solid in terms of record, but
Speaker 3: what do you see the rest of the way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm right with you, guys, nine to ten wins.
Speaker 4: I mean, well, you probably have all four games against
Speaker 4: Las Vegas and Denver still left, so you know, we're
Speaker 4: not going to count w's. I'm on a Chargers podcast.
Speaker 4: I'm not about the count w's, but but that should
Speaker 4: be that should be four wins in theory at least
Speaker 4: three wins out of those four, so you know, you
Speaker 4: can find some easy wins in the schedule. But yeah,
Speaker 4: for me, they're a wild card team that maybe if
Speaker 4: they get out of the right time or they stay healthy.
Speaker 4: I mean, look, their offense is still you know, top
Speaker 4: five and e paper play top ten and success for
Speaker 4: eight off that side of the ball obviously is going
Speaker 4: to carry you you know, late in the season, and
Speaker 4: the defense can't really be all that much worse, and
Speaker 4: so maybe it does improve to enough of a degree
Speaker 4: where again they get hot at the right time and
Speaker 4: make a run. So yeah, tennant seven, nine and eight
Speaker 4: is right where I would have it as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about that offense too, because I think
Speaker 2: like there was so much curiosity about what this Kellen
Speaker 2: Moore justin Herbert marriage would look like. If you will,
Speaker 2: from afar, what's been your kind of evaluation of what
Speaker 2: Kellen Moore has brought to the table so far as
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator And we'll dive into the matchup here specifically
Speaker 2: for the Cowboys, but Kelly Moore in general, what's been
Speaker 2: your thought process there?
Speaker 4: Was the biggest noticeable thing so far through you know,
Speaker 4: a month and four games is the red zone efficiency,
Speaker 4: which you know was not a strong suit last year
Speaker 4: and in Dallas they were a top three red zone team.
Speaker 4: And I want to say the Charges right now are
Speaker 4: fifth in conversion rate to touchdowns. Off the top of
Speaker 4: my head, they're definitely top ten. They're up in that conversation,
Speaker 4: and like from a schematic standpoint. From a stylistic standpoint,
Speaker 4: I think he's scheming up more free releases, more bunch
Speaker 4: formations and stacks and different things to kind of enable
Speaker 4: players to get.
Speaker 5: A little bit of room to operate.
Speaker 4: I mean also helps in Keenan Allen just running you know,
Speaker 4: butt naked wide open on twenty dropacks in our own.
Speaker 5: In a game that always helps too.
Speaker 4: But but yeah, I think it really is just and
Speaker 4: you saw it with Dallas against San Francisco. I mean,
Speaker 4: the guys are just blanketed the entire time. It's a
Speaker 4: static offense. You're not hitting the ball, You're not getting
Speaker 4: the ball to playmakers in space with a full head
Speaker 4: of steam. And I think that's the biggest thing, is
Speaker 4: like getting the ball to playmakers on the move. I
Speaker 4: think we've seen more of that. I know everyone you
Speaker 4: know talks about Lombardi last year and all the various things,
Speaker 4: and you know, look throwing short. I think we are
Speaker 4: getting into a conversation of maybe Justin Herbert also needs
Speaker 4: to just trust himself to uncork it downfield more like
Speaker 4: we can't solely blame Joe Lombardi.
Speaker 5: But the big thing for me is their office was
Speaker 5: so static.
Speaker 4: It was all comeback routes and stick and curl and hitch,
Speaker 4: and it was just like like like these guys can
Speaker 4: run like getting the ball with a head of steam.
Speaker 5: And I think we've seen a lot more of that
Speaker 5: this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a surprise. And Steve and I will
Speaker 3: talk about the Cowboys specifically after this, but watching with
Speaker 3: Brandon Cooks, for example, I think more than anybody else
Speaker 3: on that team, you expect with the trade, and you
Speaker 3: know you're gonna bring in this guy and he's gonna
Speaker 3: have the explosive plays, and he's been that guy throughout
Speaker 3: his entire career. And I think he's on pace for
Speaker 3: like two hundred and forty eight yards this season. This
Speaker 3: is a guy who has every year he's healthy a
Speaker 3: thousand yards of thousand yards of a thousand yards. It's just, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's been very different. It's been a surprise. I think
Speaker 3: Cowboys fans were certainly surprised and maybe regretting being so
Speaker 3: harsh on Kellen Moore last year.
Speaker 4: I was convinced I fell for the trap. I was like,
Speaker 4: Michael carth is gonna be fine, He's not gonna be terrible,
Speaker 4: and look, it's early, of course, and you know, outside
Speaker 4: of yesterday's game, they basically in Arizona, they've had these
Speaker 4: game scripts where there's no reason to push the ball
Speaker 4: down the field the first three weeks they played. But
Speaker 4: but yeah, it did not look good against San France
Speaker 4: at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, we'll dive into some of this too.
Speaker 2: But like the Kellen Moore returns for me, have been
Speaker 2: so much fun to watch because you know, there's a
Speaker 2: plan each and every week. It's a different plan here,
Speaker 2: it's a different plan there. You're playing to your strengths.
Speaker 2: And that was kind of like the theme of training
Speaker 2: camp is like, we're going to take these guys that
Speaker 2: we have and we're going to allow them to play
Speaker 2: to their strengths. You know, we're not going to try
Speaker 2: and make Joshua Kelly into an outside zone edge runner
Speaker 2: because he's better in the middle. You know, we're not
Speaker 2: gonna make Mike Williams only play on the outside because
Speaker 2: you can also play in the slot. Obviously Mike is
Speaker 2: injured now, but we'll see what happens there. You mentioned
Speaker 2: this the like the wide receiver thing. I'm curious to
Speaker 2: get your thoughts here about the the Joshua Palmer Quinton
Speaker 2: Johnson dynamic because I think a lot of fans might
Speaker 2: be a little frustrated at the lack of usage for
Speaker 2: for Quinton Johnston, you know, and maybe you know there's
Speaker 2: there's some doubts about Joshua Palmer. What do you make
Speaker 2: of those two players right now and how they're being
Speaker 2: used and what josh what Justin Herbert is able to
Speaker 2: get out of those two.
Speaker 4: I don't understand the frustration, But I thought Quentin Johnson
Speaker 4: was an extremely raw prospect, you know, like didn't really
Speaker 4: run a very complex route tree, even like his releases.
Speaker 4: I think he was just a better athlete than most
Speaker 4: players he played against in college. Obviously a gifted like
Speaker 4: you know, physical talents, but not a lot of nuance
Speaker 4: on his routes. You don't see him like selling things
Speaker 4: or faking inside and going out, like all the little
Speaker 4: details that don't matter at TCU and matter a whole
Speaker 4: lot when when you're playing in the NFL.
Speaker 5: So I get it.
Speaker 4: I know you want to see him more. I know
Speaker 4: you want to see more targets that aren't behind the
Speaker 4: line of scrimmage. You know, we saw the highlights of
Speaker 4: tc of him going up and make contest and catches
Speaker 4: stuff like that.
Speaker 5: Josh Palmer.
Speaker 4: Look, the ceiling is not super high. We know who
Speaker 4: he is, but I think he's a very high floor,
Speaker 4: solid football player. You do go back to the issue
Speaker 4: of not having a lot of explosiveness, which in theory
Speaker 4: was kind of why you know you'd want to Quentin Johnston.
Speaker 4: But but yeah, I mean, look, I think that's maybe
Speaker 4: why you do add a speedster or something of that nature.
Speaker 5: I mean, terrace.
Speaker 4: Marshall's a good downfield target last year had like a
Speaker 4: ninety grade on past his ten plus yards downfield at
Speaker 4: one drop on like twenty five targets, Like, he's good.
Speaker 4: He's good downfield. But yeah, I understand the frustration, but
Speaker 4: I don't know, I kind of get why he's being
Speaker 4: brought along slowly, although maybe that maybe that changes out
Speaker 4: of his buy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely could regarding Marshall, there could definitely be something there.
Speaker 3: The Charges have obviously done trade with Carolina with trade
Speaker 3: Turner before, and then they have some connection there with
Speaker 3: Frank Reix, so that's potentially something there. What do you
Speaker 3: weigh then, like, how do you weigh the investment in
Speaker 3: a first round pick when it's a receiver, like it's
Speaker 3: a first round pick. You have a very cost controlled
Speaker 3: player for we're assuming maybe five years here. How do
Speaker 3: you weigh like waiting for what seems to be now
Speaker 3: with Quinton Johnson, maybe an entire year to get him
Speaker 3: to really be the guy in twenty twenty four versus
Speaker 3: finding someone with maybe a lower ceiling, but he's playing
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 4: It's philosophy for the draft and less so in the
Speaker 4: first round maybe to a degree, and of course less
Speaker 4: so if the context of your roster, which is my
Speaker 4: opinion again the window is justin Herbert's career, but there
Speaker 4: is a window right now with a lot of these
Speaker 4: players that are currently on the roster. But you know,
Speaker 4: I think it was smart to take him because Mike
Speaker 4: Williams and again like the injury aside, obviously feel bad
Speaker 4: for him, but I didn't know if Mike Williams or
Speaker 4: Keenan Allen was gonna be on the roster in twenty
Speaker 4: twenty four. I think Keenan Allen's probably playing his way
Speaker 4: into that being the case now, but you know, I
Speaker 4: don't know. If he dealt with Hammis for ten weeks
Speaker 4: again this season, I could see that not being the case,
Speaker 4: so knock, I wouldn't trying how drink drinks the guy.
Speaker 4: But but yeah, so I get it. I'm cool that
Speaker 4: I like the idea because I'm always a fan of
Speaker 4: you draft for the future, you draft and develop, and
Speaker 4: you want to in the first round in particular, you
Speaker 4: want to hit high upside guys that that could turn
Speaker 4: into you know, force multipliers and true difference makers, not
Speaker 4: just like good football players, you know.
Speaker 5: But I also get the argument, know the other the
Speaker 5: other way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we'll get you out of here. A couple
Speaker 2: more questions here. There's a lot of MVP talk happening already.
Speaker 2: A certain quarterback in San Francisco is is kind of
Speaker 2: the hot topic right now. But we'll focus focus is
Speaker 2: in on Justin Herbert. What do you think his MVP
Speaker 2: case is this year and what would really have to happen.
Speaker 1: For him to make a strong case for that kind
Speaker 1: of MVP kind of push down the stretch of this season.
Speaker 4: They probably could be a case or a narrative around
Speaker 4: if he has to get all these shootouts and throw
Speaker 4: their way to victory because you know, the defense is
Speaker 4: not playing not playing well and obviously now Austin Eckler
Speaker 4: has missed time. Josh Kelly didn't really make the most
Speaker 4: of that opportunity, you know, so like that would be
Speaker 4: the narrative. It is like he has to score thirty
Speaker 4: points to win every game. I mean the Minnesota game.
Speaker 4: I thought he was exceptional a couple of the games
Speaker 4: this season, like look, and I also love him just
Speaker 4: because he avoids turnovers. He also has a good pressure
Speaker 4: to sack right always does, always one of our highest
Speaker 4: credit quarterbacks against pressure, which is supposed to be a
Speaker 4: super unstable stat, and yet he keeps showing up high
Speaker 4: in the metric year after year, you know, good against
Speaker 4: the blitz, like all those things. So I think the
Speaker 4: contextual components of just a what he has to do
Speaker 4: to keep his team in games, but then be you know,
Speaker 4: we'd like to see more exposiveness, more touchdown throws, all that,
Speaker 4: but limiting the negatives is so important for this team
Speaker 4: right now, and he's as good as anyone at avoiding
Speaker 4: turnover worthy plays.
Speaker 3: Yeah, gotta do that this week. I think the next
Speaker 3: two weeks for sure are narrative changing kind of players
Speaker 3: or at least pushing those things. With the Cowboys and
Speaker 3: the Chiefs. Got to ask you before we get out
Speaker 3: of here, what is your prediction for the Chargers this
Speaker 3: Monday against the Cowboys.
Speaker 4: I think it's gonna be a shootout. I know the
Speaker 4: total is at forty eight at open. I hopped on
Speaker 4: the over it's already at fifty one, I think. So
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to brag about my closing line value.
Speaker 4: It's probably a little, but no, I really, I really
Speaker 4: do think it's gonna be a shootout. It's interesting Dallas
Speaker 4: now for me, with the loss of Layton vander esh
Speaker 4: they already lost to Marbion Overshown before the season. Their
Speaker 4: linebacker core right now is scary. And then they're talking
Speaker 4: about already Micah Parsons now playing more off ball, which
Speaker 4: I get that, Like you're thin there, but okay, you're
Speaker 4: gonna take your best pass rusher, a top five pass
Speaker 4: rusher in the NFL, out of the defensive line.
Speaker 5: That's great, that's great news. The Charger probably lovely that line. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think you can attack the middle of
Speaker 4: the field against this team really well.
Speaker 5: Right now.
Speaker 4: Look, I like their safeties, but all three of them
Speaker 4: I think are good players. But I think attacking this
Speaker 4: second level. Keenan Allen just feasting. You know, Josh Palmer
Speaker 4: as well. Though, getting Austin Ekler, it seems like he'll
Speaker 4: be back in the fold. I think he can make
Speaker 4: their second leveld defenders miss in space and rack up
Speaker 4: a ton of yards after the catch against his team.
Speaker 5: So that's what I love.
Speaker 4: But then, yeah, on the defensive side, this Cowboys offensive
Speaker 4: line has been awesome. I mean, you have a you
Speaker 4: have a healthy unit now across the board. Tyler Smith
Speaker 4: is our highest rated guard in the NFL. Tyron Smith.
Speaker 4: Whenever he's healthy, he's awesome, you know, and so on
Speaker 4: and so forth. So I really do think both teams
Speaker 4: are gonna score and it's gonna be a classic. Whoever
Speaker 4: is the ball last probably wins the game, you know,
Speaker 4: another heart attack for Chargers fans, like every Sunday.
Speaker 3: I didn't hear a score prediction in there.
Speaker 4: Though, score prediction. I will give you thirty one to
Speaker 4: twenty seven Chargers.
Speaker 2: Okay, cool, there we go. Love to see it. I
Speaker 2: love to see it. Brad really appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 1: One of the one of our favorite interviews to do.
Speaker 1: Glad you were able to.
Speaker 2: Join us on the Charters official channel. So can't think
Speaker 2: enough for your time, appreciate all the great work that
Speaker 2: you do, and we hope the chat soon down the road.
Speaker 5: Shit you guys a toll, Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: Again, shout out to Brad, one of the best in
Speaker 2: the business. If you're not following him, I strongly encourage
Speaker 2: you to go do that. Does great articles. Whether you're
Speaker 2: a financial nerd, whether you're a draft nerd, or just
Speaker 2: want to talk about football. Brad's a great follow does
Speaker 2: some some great work in the Chicago area as well
Speaker 2: for Bears fans whoever you know, if you know a
Speaker 2: Bears fan, sending Brad's way, Tyler. Any final thoughts about
Speaker 2: our discussion with Brad this morning before we jump into
Speaker 2: our planned.
Speaker 1: To show for the rest of the episode.
Speaker 3: Mostly just I still feel like I need a bit
Speaker 3: more time to figure out why the whole twenty eight
Speaker 3: point eight million dollars next year happened and if that
Speaker 3: was really in the best interest for them to do that.
Speaker 3: But again, like we talked about, it was more about
Speaker 3: the player exiting the team and being somewhere else than
Speaker 3: necessarily being a cap thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's certainly part part of it. And
Speaker 2: we saw some of this last year with the Jerry
Speaker 2: Tillery conversation. Obviously, Jerry Tillery was not you know, on
Speaker 2: a long term deal, he was on his rookie contract.
Speaker 2: But we've talked a lot about like the hope for
Speaker 2: the secondary is that now without all of this situation
Speaker 2: kind of you know, hovering over them, that things can
Speaker 2: kind of settle down. The roles are more defined, and
Speaker 2: Michael Davis talked about that today at the Chargers practice,
Speaker 2: you know, just being unsettled a little bit with where
Speaker 2: he's at with the rotation, who's starting, who's playing here,
Speaker 2: who's matching up there. Now things are all calmed down.
Speaker 2: Everybody knows what their role is, everybody knows what the
Speaker 2: expectations are going forward. So hopefully this Chargers' cornerback room
Speaker 2: can start playing like they did at the end of
Speaker 2: last season, and the Chargers defense in general would really
Speaker 2: benefit from that group, you know, starting to perform in expectations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really think that this is definitely not the
Speaker 3: focus of the episode today, but I really am hopeful
Speaker 3: that that situation being resolved and just having the buy
Speaker 3: because it's like you're are three, go do what you
Speaker 3: did last year is go be great, and I really
Speaker 3: think that they will be I don't know how much better,
Speaker 3: but I think they will be better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's just gonna be exciting to see,
Speaker 2: you know, like they have some positive matchups coming up
Speaker 2: from a like a cornerback receiver standpoint, and you know,
Speaker 2: hopefully that this group can really start to round into
Speaker 2: form in the secondary.
Speaker 1: And you know, Derworn James should be back.
Speaker 2: This week against the Cowboys and Alohi Gillman should be
Speaker 2: back this week too, So reinforcements coming for the Chargers
Speaker 2: defense coming off of their best performance against the Raiders.
Speaker 2: So hopefully the arrow is pointing up for this unit.
Speaker 2: All right, the focus of our group. We don't get
Speaker 2: to talk a whole lot about like coaching matchups on
Speaker 2: our podcast feed. It's a lot about individual player matchups
Speaker 2: and key statistics and things like that. But we couldn't
Speaker 2: possibly not talk about Chargers and Cowboys and not talk
Speaker 2: about Kellen Moore versus Mike McCarthy and how these two
Speaker 2: kind of matchups as respective offensive minds and what we're
Speaker 2: really seeing from these two units. Obviously, the Cowboys coming
Speaker 2: off of a pretty embarrassing loss at the hands of
Speaker 2: the San Francisco forty nine ers. So I do expect
Speaker 2: them to be highly motivated to, you know, have a
Speaker 2: positive response against the Chargers on Monday Night. But Tyler,
Speaker 2: when you look at how like the dialogue happened about,
Speaker 2: like the Cowboys are moving on from Kella Moore, he's
Speaker 2: coming to the Chargers. What's kind of your evaluation of
Speaker 2: where do we stand now after five weeks of the
Speaker 2: NFL season regarding these two coaches and how they're kind
Speaker 2: of working their offenses out.
Speaker 3: Where we stand now is thank you. I really appreciate
Speaker 3: the offensive coordinator. I would. I'm happy to have them,
Speaker 3: I'll say that much. You know, I think that sometimes
Speaker 3: you always hope for a grasses greener.
Speaker 1: And I get it.
Speaker 3: You know last year that the Cowboys maybe they hope
Speaker 3: to be certainly not in the postseason, and so they
Speaker 3: wanted to just do something else, find something different. You
Speaker 3: go get Brandon Cooks, here comes the explosive offense or whatever.
Speaker 3: You know, Kellen Moore. We heard from Cowboys fans all offseason. No,
Speaker 3: it's just Joe Lombardi two point zero. Well, I think
Speaker 3: looking through Dallas Cowboys and their stats so far, they
Speaker 3: got the Joe Lombardi experience so far with Mike McCarthy
Speaker 3: literally today from Mike McCarthy, a little quote from him,
Speaker 3: This is a This team is about defense, make no
Speaker 3: bones about it. You know, of course we want to
Speaker 3: score as many points as everybody, but we played to
Speaker 3: our defense. That's the strength of our team. And by
Speaker 3: doing that, the time of possession, taking care of the football,
Speaker 3: those are two things that I thought we're improvement from
Speaker 3: past years, et cetera, et cetera. Basically this offense that
Speaker 3: the head coach is suggesting that they're a defensive driven
Speaker 3: team and they're basically just going to be not turning
Speaker 3: the football over and sort of being conservative without coming
Speaker 3: out and saying it. And that is certainly the case.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you look anywhere. I talked about it
Speaker 3: when we're interviewing Brad. But Brandon Cooks was the guy
Speaker 3: you brought in to have explosive plays, and they're not
Speaker 3: getting him the football. They're targeting him, but they're not
Speaker 3: getting into him. And if they are, he's not really
Speaker 3: doing what he's really been known to. I mean, Brandon
Speaker 3: Cooks is a player six seasons over one thousand yards.
Speaker 3: Someone who's averaged, you know, almost fourteen yards per perception
Speaker 3: his entire career. It's at eight now. Like it is
Speaker 3: not what you would expect for some of the Brandon Cooks.
Speaker 3: And for some context, if you look at Joe Lombardi
Speaker 3: and like Jalen Geiden for example, even Jalen Guiden was
Speaker 3: at fourteen and a half yards per reception. So that
Speaker 3: is just not working right now. It is Dak Prescott's
Speaker 3: lowest big time throw rate of his career. I believe
Speaker 3: it is also his lowest turnover where they play rate,
Speaker 3: which is good, of course, but it's a very conservative offense.
Speaker 3: It is not one that wants to, as we've discussed
Speaker 3: the offseason, run up the scoreboard and put up tons
Speaker 3: of points. I mean he literally just said as much
Speaker 3: that they're looking to maybe just compliment their defense, which
Speaker 3: I sort of understand because the defense was towered as
Speaker 3: being so great and they have a lot of great players.
Speaker 3: But I mean, this is a very, very very conservative offense.
Speaker 3: And we're even right down to fourth down play calling
Speaker 3: or going forward to not going for it. I might
Speaker 3: be off by this, but just a little bit. But
Speaker 3: Brandon Staley is I think first or second in the
Speaker 3: league right now in terms of going for it when
Speaker 3: he should. So he's first in the league. Mike McCarthy
Speaker 3: second worst in the league in terms of you know,
Speaker 3: going now. Is that a good decision or not necessarily?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know the results of how
Speaker 3: the Cowboys have done, but when the math says go
Speaker 3: for it, Mike McCarthy has been more conservative, So Prescott
Speaker 3: way more conservative. The offensive, We're all more conservative. They're
Speaker 3: moving down the drive the field efficiently, but they're not
Speaker 3: scoring in the red zone. I mean, they've dropped off dramatically.
Speaker 3: Is where we can start talking about Kellen Moore. You know,
Speaker 3: the one thing I wanted out of Kellen Moore for
Speaker 3: this offense. The number one stat I wanted to see
Speaker 3: with Kellen Moore coming over, you know, wasn't necessarily rushing
Speaker 3: yards per attempt or number of deep passes or a dot.
Speaker 3: It was red zone touchdown efficiency. I mean I really wanted,
Speaker 3: like that was a stat I wanted that the Cowboys
Speaker 3: had last year, and they were number one in the
Speaker 3: league at like seventy one percent or whatever it was,
Speaker 3: and the Chargers were eighteenth at fifty four and a
Speaker 3: half percent. You know, Kellen. With Kellen Moore, the Chargers
Speaker 3: are are thirteen percent better at all, almost sixty nine percent.
Speaker 3: They are right behind the San Francisco forty nine ers.
Speaker 3: Anytime you're around the San Francisco forty nine ers and
Speaker 3: the Kansas City Chiefs, you're doing something well. So the
Speaker 3: Chargers being yeah, that's pretty good. So fifth in the
Speaker 3: NFL is so great. Conversely, the Dallas Cowboys now have
Speaker 3: dropped almost thirty five percent to twenty eight in the
Speaker 3: league in red zone touchdown percentage. And look, that offense
Speaker 3: is all there. I mean, you got the quarterback, you
Speaker 3: added a receiver, I like your tight end in Ferguson.
Speaker 3: Your offensive line hasn't been healthy all year, but it's
Speaker 3: healthy now. I mean, and they've dropped thirty five percent.
Speaker 3: The Chargers are at almost sixty nine percent, and the
Speaker 3: Cowboys have fallen to thirty six point eight four percent.
Speaker 3: So they're really missing him, Kellen Moore. And it's not
Speaker 3: that they're a bad offense. They're efficient, but they're not
Speaker 3: explosive and they're not scoring in the red zone like
Speaker 3: the Chargers have been. So I think right now, in
Speaker 3: terms of what we looked at before the season to now,
Speaker 3: I'd say Cowboys fans are probably wishing they had Kellen
Speaker 3: Moore back. Granted, look, I know that Justin Herbert is
Speaker 3: the quarterback, so that does change some things. But sure,
Speaker 3: I think the Chargers got the better end of the
Speaker 3: other so far.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked about Kellen Moore specifically and how much
Speaker 2: we've loved what we've seen from like a game plan perspective,
Speaker 2: from a usage standpoint. For the most part, there's definitely
Speaker 2: some things that you can nitpick here. But you know,
Speaker 2: Brad's point about it being not static versus static, I
Speaker 2: think is a great one man, And that's something that
Speaker 2: I noticed watching the Cowboys on tape this week. I
Speaker 2: really genuinely felt like I was watching the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: two Chargers offense on tape again. You know, Michael Gallup
Speaker 2: and Brandon Cooks, you're on this side, you're on that side.
Speaker 2: You're gonna stay on that side, and ceedee, Lamb's in
Speaker 2: the slot and for seventy five percent of his routes
Speaker 2: and there's no motion, there's no creativity. It's a quick step,
Speaker 2: drop balls out, try and get the guys in space.
Speaker 2: But there's just no real motion, there's no real you know,
Speaker 2: creativity about this offense right now, you know, and that
Speaker 2: can work against some bad defenses, which was the case
Speaker 2: for the most part outside of the Jets in the
Speaker 2: first four games. But then when you play a team
Speaker 2: like the forty nine Ers, who is very capable of
Speaker 2: jumping routes, being physical, disrupting the timing, you end up
Speaker 2: getting the performance that the Cowboys had on offense this
Speaker 2: past week. And you know, you look at Dak's average
Speaker 2: time to throw and for the most out, if you
Speaker 2: take out the forty nine Ers game, it's like two
Speaker 2: point three seconds, which is like insanely high. Like Tua
Speaker 2: against the Chargers was like two point four and two
Speaker 2: point three seconds. That's like literally like I take the snap,
Speaker 2: I take my drop balls out like there's no reading,
Speaker 2: there's no processing, there's no motion, there's nothing. Ball is
Speaker 2: out in a hurry. And that's a lot of what
Speaker 2: the Chargers were trying to do last year. Granted some
Speaker 2: of that is due to injury, as we've talked about
Speaker 2: on our show, but there's just no there's no twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three offense in the Cowboys right now. It's all
Speaker 2: this like West host basic concepts and you know, we'll
Speaker 2: talk about this, you know throughout the Reek, right. But
Speaker 2: for the Chargers, the game plan is pretty simple for me,
Speaker 2: like you have to be physical, you have to press,
Speaker 2: you have to disrupt timing, and that's how you get
Speaker 2: the Cowboys out of their rhythm, because that's what the
Speaker 2: Cowboys want. They want rhythm and just get five six
Speaker 2: yards every single play, stay ahead of the chains and
Speaker 2: not be in these long, long down distance things. But
Speaker 2: it was really funny, man, like watching I watched three
Speaker 2: Cowboys games last night, and I really felt like I
Speaker 2: was just watching the Joe Loombardi offense all over again.
Speaker 2: And not that I didn't expect there to be some
Speaker 2: of that, but Mike McCarthy had some time away from
Speaker 2: the league. He was the head coach without being the
Speaker 2: play caller. I was expecting some changes from what you know.
Speaker 2: The offense was at the town of his Green Bay,
Speaker 2: and you hear all the complaints from Aaron Rodgers at
Speaker 2: that time. There's no motion, there's no there's no creativity.
Speaker 2: And now it's the same kind of stuff again with
Speaker 2: Dak Prescott.
Speaker 1: So it's an.
Speaker 2: Really interesting dynamic here because Kellen Moore is taking advantage
Speaker 2: of his guys. There's different plans every single week. There's
Speaker 2: creative touches for Darius Davis. There's none of that going
Speaker 2: on in Dallas right now from what I can see
Speaker 2: on tape after watching three games last night.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Mike McCarthy is a long time coding this
Speaker 3: league and it has been with the Cowboys for several years now.
Speaker 3: Kellen Moore just got here and he's dialing up different
Speaker 3: things like whether it works or not. There are certainly
Speaker 3: a place we can go ad it didn't work or
Speaker 3: that really worked great, But whatever it is, it's different.
Speaker 3: Every week has been different, or it adds on to
Speaker 3: something that they did. The previous week we saw with
Speaker 3: that Darius Davis fourth down play, you know, that was
Speaker 3: something different against the Titans. The next week they tried
Speaker 3: something different. It didn't work against the Vikings, but it
Speaker 3: was different, like there is something being added. There's layers
Speaker 3: to this. And I'm glad you said it because I
Speaker 3: felt the same way watching them as in particular against
Speaker 3: the forty nine ers. Watching the whole game, Yeah, it
Speaker 3: really felt like Jordan Bardy's offense and not that you know,
Speaker 3: air yards is everything, right I think right below or
Speaker 3: right above the Cowboys and intended air yards is the Chiefs.
Speaker 3: And I'm not going to tell the Chiefs that they
Speaker 3: have a bad offense, but it's just not what I
Speaker 3: thought they were going to go for this year, especially
Speaker 3: after getting Brandon Cooks. I'm very surprised. And even with
Speaker 3: Brandon cook you talk about that time to throw, you know,
Speaker 3: there was that kind of that one like snap hike
Speaker 3: and then just like chuck it really quickly out of
Speaker 3: the end zone to Cooks. But it's really feels like
Speaker 3: watching them try to get it to Cooks, it's either
Speaker 3: a slant which works, or they try to get it
Speaker 3: to them down the field pretty quickly and there's not
Speaker 3: even really a route development, and I feel like it's
Speaker 3: very much just so you're faster, go like catch go
Speaker 3: throw it. And it's not working. And it clearly not
Speaker 3: working because his target to catch percentage throughout his career
Speaker 3: is twenty percent higher than it is right now in Dallas,
Speaker 3: like they are trying to maybe get him the football,
Speaker 3: but it's twenty percent lower right now, like it is,
Speaker 3: it is not working with Brandon Cooks. And again on
Speaker 3: pace for you know, two hundred and forty eight year yards.
Speaker 3: I think he I could be wrong. I think he
Speaker 3: had eight thousand, six hundred something yards going into this
Speaker 3: season and he still has eight thousand, six hundred something
Speaker 3: yards right now. Because he only has seventy three yards
Speaker 3: in five games. It's not at all what they were
Speaker 3: hoping for, I'm sure, and I don't think what anybody
Speaker 3: was expecting keeping Cowboys fans in terms of the usage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was some very concerning comments you brought up
Speaker 2: to Mike McCarthy one. But you know, this summer we
Speaker 2: heard from Corey Lindsley and Rashaun Slater talk about just
Speaker 2: like the lack of identity from the Charges offense last
Speaker 2: year and like how important was going to be for
Speaker 2: Kellen Moore to come into this season and establish a
Speaker 2: real identity on the ground and through the air with
Speaker 2: justin like there needs to be like a clear like
Speaker 2: calling card and Ceedee Lamb was asked about this yesterday
Speaker 2: and he was like, I don't know, and he like
Speaker 2: paused for like a really long time like he would
Speaker 2: like he looked at the reporter and like trying to think,
Speaker 2: like how honest he wanted to be and he was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, and the reporter asked him, like, how
Speaker 2: do you fix that? He's like, I don't know. And
Speaker 2: then Jerry Jones on his radio show is asked about
Speaker 2: like getting ceeddlamb the football more often, and Jerry's like, no,
Speaker 2: we want to spread the ball around. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: please continue to do that. So it's just like I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's like Chargers twenty twenty two all over again, when
Speaker 2: I'm hearing the talk about the Cowboys, watching the Cowboys,
Speaker 2: and you know, all that being said, Brandon State Ofy's
Speaker 2: defense should be very well prepared to go up against
Speaker 2: this Cowboys offense because they practice against it for two years,
Speaker 2: and you know, like it's it's jokes, right, but it's
Speaker 2: true like this, this defense should be very well prepared
Speaker 2: for what they're going up against, and we talked about
Speaker 2: some of the reinforcements that they get back. This should
Speaker 2: be a positive spot for the Chargers defense and hopefully
Speaker 2: be able to continue that kind of momentum going forward.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think this is going to be a
Speaker 3: big you know, truly gets ten pressures in klueback gets
Speaker 3: six sacks, sort of racket just seems like the Cowboys
Speaker 3: are operating kind of like the Dolphins word where we're
Speaker 3: just getting out really quick. But I do think this
Speaker 3: is a great, great knock on wood, a great rebound
Speaker 3: game for the Chargers secondary because one, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of recognition of what's in front of them, which has
Speaker 3: kind of been difficult for them over the last few weeks.
Speaker 3: And two because like they're now gelling as a unit.
Speaker 3: This just this just feels like the Michael Davis gets
Speaker 3: his interception game. This feels like a Santai Samuel Junior
Speaker 3: having you know, let's have another three interception sort of game. Again,
Speaker 3: it's very conservative, so Dak isn't turning the ball over,
Speaker 3: but if you're just if that's kind of all you're doing,
Speaker 3: eventually someone like a Sandei Samuel Junior is going to
Speaker 3: key in on that and get the interception, and I
Speaker 3: honestly think he would this week.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, we heard Nick Naeman after the Minnesota game
Speaker 2: say that they saw like this one concept and they
Speaker 2: were waiting for it and ready for it, and eventually
Speaker 2: they get The Vikings got to it and Nick Neman
Speaker 2: made a great play on the football and then obviously
Speaker 2: kenth Mury came down with the interception, Like that's the
Speaker 2: kind of vibes that the Chargers defense should have this week.
Speaker 2: You know, we're seeing these kind of key concepts over
Speaker 2: and over again, and these are the kind of things
Speaker 2: that we're looking for. This is the static formation that
Speaker 2: they're running this out of, and they should be able
Speaker 2: to be aggressive, be physical, go make these plays and
Speaker 2: disrupt the timing. And there's a real opportunity for the
Speaker 2: Chargers defense to you know, establish themselves and you know,
Speaker 2: build that momentum going forward. Like you said, the Chargers
Speaker 2: pass rush I think is going to be in for
Speaker 2: a little bit more of a struggle this week. The
Speaker 2: Cowboys offensive line is fantastic and with the quick trigger
Speaker 2: from Dak, it's gonna be a bit of a struggle
Speaker 2: to get home. I'm definitely not expecting six sacks from
Speaker 2: klue back again, but you've got to find a way
Speaker 2: to disrupt the timing of the routes, disrupt the you know,
Speaker 2: rhythm of Dak, and if you do, then you can
Speaker 2: get home. And that's obviously what the forty nine Ers
Speaker 2: did obviously, you know against uh against the Cowboys on
Speaker 2: Sunday night, That's what allowed Fred Warner, Nick Bosa, all
Speaker 2: these guys to get home. Is their secondary was just disruptive,
Speaker 2: like at a really high level. And obviously the Niners defense,
Speaker 2: not the Chargers defense and everything like that, right, But
Speaker 2: the concept the path to victory for the Chargers defense
Speaker 2: is pretty simple this week. Disrupt timing, get Dak off
Speaker 2: of his out of his rhythm, and you know, create
Speaker 2: some havoc from a cover standpoint, and create some havoc
Speaker 2: from a pastro standpoint, and the Chargers defense should be
Speaker 2: in a good spot. I'm not expecting like a shutout.
Speaker 2: I'm not expecting like ten points, but I am I
Speaker 2: do think that the charge defense can make some plays
Speaker 2: and make life really difficult, you know, from a ceiling
Speaker 2: standpoint for the Cowboys offense.
Speaker 3: And that's really what I think it is too. It's
Speaker 3: not that they're gonna shut them down, but it's from
Speaker 3: that ceiling perspective, can you just limit them and they're
Speaker 3: gonna limit themselves? It sounds like too. So I don't
Speaker 3: think these are two very different philosophies. But I do
Speaker 3: think we're headed towards closer to that Dolphins game from
Speaker 3: last year, not just because of design, but because they
Speaker 3: have the same guys out there, although to have to
Speaker 3: ruin James this time, and because you know what do
Speaker 3: the Dolphins do this year, Well, they use a lot
Speaker 3: of motion to get guys open, and to get Tyreek
Speaker 3: Kill open against his Chargers defense, they learned this Cowboys
Speaker 3: defense or this offense excuse me, is not adjusting, and
Speaker 3: so I think if they continue to just be like
Speaker 3: that and be static and have no identity, yeah, then
Speaker 3: I think that the Charges defense is in for a
Speaker 3: much improved day against very good pass catchers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully it's it's just one of those like confidence
Speaker 2: building games for the defense and the team as a whole. Right,
Speaker 2: But kind of getting back to the Kellen Moore side
Speaker 2: of things here, you know, it's gonna be very interesting
Speaker 2: to see how he attacks this because I think the
Speaker 2: Cowboys defensive line for me, is probably the best in
Speaker 2: the league from a pass rushing standpoint, but the linebackers
Speaker 2: are injured and can be had when they were healthy.
Speaker 2: Deron Bland potentially not out there for this team. Obviously
Speaker 2: Trevon Diggs is not out there, so again there's an
Speaker 2: opportunity for the Chargers to create some explosive plays here,
Speaker 2: you know, move the ball with Austin Eckler. What do
Speaker 2: you make of specifically how Kellen Moore can you know,
Speaker 2: take his philosophy and match up with Dan Quinn in
Speaker 2: this pass rush for this week, Tyler.
Speaker 3: Yeah, lead into the play action game and leading to
Speaker 3: the downhill run game. I think these linebackers, if Yton
Speaker 3: vander Rush is out and it seems like he's going
Speaker 3: to be out for a number of weeks, and if
Speaker 3: Michael Parsons is not playing edge anymore, and then moving
Speaker 3: him to the linebacker, We'll see how that goes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think the play action game drawing those linebackers in
Speaker 3: and running down hill I think could help. I'm very
Speaker 3: curious how they go about blocking Michael Parsons in general,
Speaker 3: not just necessarily on the outside as an edge rusher,
Speaker 3: but they have him do like what we've seen with
Speaker 3: Tuley where they line up over the guard or attacking
Speaker 3: between the center and the guard or whatever, and that
Speaker 3: has definitely worked. I turned on the Giant's game. What
Speaker 3: did I see? Like the fourth play of the game,
Speaker 3: he lines up there, gets a sack. Watch the forty
Speaker 3: nine Ers game, gets a tackle for loss, gets a
Speaker 3: pressure or whatever it was. So how do they do that?
Speaker 3: And I was listening to Brandon Thorne's breakdown of the
Speaker 3: forty nine Ers versus the Cowboys game, and it was
Speaker 3: a big Spencer Burford game. Like the Spencer Berford their
Speaker 3: the forty nine Ers right guard. He did have a
Speaker 3: really really big game, and he did because of stuff
Speaker 3: like that. I'm very curious now what the what the
Speaker 3: Cowboys will do without Layton vander Rush too, because they
Speaker 3: don't blitz a ton. But if they did blitz, it
Speaker 3: was Layton vander Rush. I think he had thirty one
Speaker 3: pass rushes over the last five games, and everyone else combined,
Speaker 3: I think was like nineteen. So do you have another
Speaker 3: guy that can do that after already losing another guy
Speaker 3: at linebacker, and do you trust your secondary to hold
Speaker 3: up in those instances? I don't know. So I think
Speaker 3: play action would be great having those linebackers, the newer guys,
Speaker 3: the guys that are out there, you know, biting a bit.
Speaker 3: I think that'd be great for the team. Hopefully they
Speaker 3: can run it. Well. There was a graph, you know, Herbert,
Speaker 3: what's the EPA versus play action versus non play action?
Speaker 3: Good news is He's great at both, so it didn't
Speaker 3: really matter if it was non play action or play action,
Speaker 3: so you're good with either. But I'd love to see
Speaker 3: the charge of lead into that this week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, from a like specific scheme standpoint, like I don't
Speaker 2: know how much stock I really put into like the
Speaker 2: Cardinals being the Cowboys, but like you know, as like
Speaker 2: a you know, over arching theme or anything like that.
Speaker 2: But the charge the Cardinals, excuse me. Their offensive game
Speaker 2: plan was really really smart against the Cowboys, and the
Speaker 2: key thing that they did was was invite the Cowboys
Speaker 2: rush to get upfield and then with misdirection runs, RPOs,
Speaker 2: things like that zone read, they were able to take
Speaker 2: advantage of the Cowboys aggression. So there's this pin and
Speaker 2: pole concept, which is like my favorite run concept because
Speaker 2: it invites people upfield. You get the guards you know,
Speaker 2: and the tackles you know, rolling out in space. Everything's
Speaker 2: kind of walled off and if you if you execute
Speaker 2: it properly, you give your running back like three different
Speaker 2: cutback angles because it just gives it opens up so
Speaker 2: much space there. And they did this awesome thing where
Speaker 2: they ran pin and pole scored in the red zone.
Speaker 2: They ran pin and poll and got James Connor for
Speaker 2: like a twenty five yard run, and then they were
Speaker 2: doing pin and pole run pass option concepts out of it.
Speaker 2: It was incredible to watch Petzy Drew pets and in
Speaker 2: Arizona is doing some incredible stuff down there. And from
Speaker 2: a schematic standpoint, all of that is already built into
Speaker 2: what the charters have done. You know, they've ran pin
Speaker 2: and poll a bunch of times throughout the season, and
Speaker 2: it's been something that they've gone to in key moments
Speaker 2: against the Dolphins, against the Titans, not as much against
Speaker 2: the Vikings because it wasn't really there, but against the
Speaker 2: Raiders they ran it a couple of times. So there's
Speaker 2: a real opportunity for Kellen Moore to invite the aggression
Speaker 2: and then you know, expose him over the top or
Speaker 2: expose him out on the edge. And I think that's
Speaker 2: something that Kellen Moore has been kind of building up here,
Speaker 2: is are these concepts that can take advantage of these
Speaker 2: aggressive defenses. And then the Cowboys are one of the
Speaker 2: most aggressive defensive lines in the league because they're always
Speaker 2: trying to hunt the quarterback.
Speaker 1: That's what they do best.
Speaker 2: And so you've got to say Hey, we're gonna we're
Speaker 2: gonna invite you up and then we're gonna gas you
Speaker 2: behind you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, please blitz Herbert whatever you gotta do or be aggressive.
Speaker 3: It seems like not only do the does Kellen Moore
Speaker 3: have some of the answers for those moments, but of
Speaker 3: course Justin Herbert does as well. I really really hope
Speaker 3: Austin Eckler is out there and very healthy and ready
Speaker 3: to go. I am concerned if he's not out there
Speaker 3: a ton in terms of pass protection. I believe Isaiah
Speaker 3: Spiller and joshuac Kelly have allowed thirteen pressures through three games,
Speaker 3: and well, scuse me, three games without Austin Eckler, and
Speaker 3: I think Eckler has allowed twenty pressures his entire career.
Speaker 3: So it's been very very different missing one like Austin Eckler.
Speaker 3: So I hope he's out there to be able to
Speaker 3: make up for this very aggressive defense of the Cowboys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like he is expecting to play. I
Speaker 2: think he said a ninety nine percent chance, and he
Speaker 2: even went as far to tell ESPN Chris Rim that
Speaker 2: if there was a game last week that he would
Speaker 2: have he felt comfortable enough to play last week, but
Speaker 2: Chargers obviously on by so good things there. But I'm excited, man,
Speaker 2: from a coaching from a coaching matchup. You know, Kellen
Speaker 2: Moore against the Cowboys, I think was probably my favorite
Speaker 2: like coaching matchup of the season. And you know, he
Speaker 2: have this one circle and you have Michael Parsons versus
Speaker 2: Rashaan Slader circle, Like, this is a fun, fun matchup.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that it's a primetime game on Monday
Speaker 2: Night Football, and I can't wait to see how it
Speaker 2: pans out. Obviously hoping for the charters to win, but
Speaker 2: just from like a coaching standpoint, I think this is
Speaker 2: gonna be a really great game to dive into and
Speaker 2: I'm glad we were able to do some of that today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about the matchups we're most looking forward
Speaker 3: to heading into the season. This is the one that
Speaker 3: I was looking forward to because this is the heavyweight match.
Speaker 3: I wish Corey Lindsley were healthy so it could just
Speaker 3: be best on best. But this offensive line, that defensive line,
Speaker 3: that's a heck of a matchup. You know, Rashaun Slater,
Speaker 3: Michael Parsons. I forget what list it was, but they had,
Speaker 3: you know, who was the best player from that class.
Speaker 3: I think Parsons was one, and I feel like that's
Speaker 3: rightfully so at least that makes sense to me. But
Speaker 3: Slater was left off that list entirely.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: And I think that this is a game where I mean,
Speaker 3: Trent Williams, Trent Williams is Trent Williams and he'll be
Speaker 3: Trent Williams until he's not. But Rashawn Slater is that
Speaker 3: next guy in line, and I can't wait to see
Speaker 3: how those two go at it. Unless Michael Parsons is
Speaker 3: playing off ball linebacker, in which case never mind. But
Speaker 3: I can't wait to see that matchup. That is an
Speaker 3: awesome matchup. This whole game has so many storelines and matchups.
Speaker 3: I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be a ton of fun Charters home
Speaker 2: game hopefully you know there's a good turnout as well.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not looking forward to all the Cowboys
Speaker 2: fan narratives and things like that, but on paperman on
Speaker 2: the field, this game is gonna be electric. I cannot
Speaker 2: wait to watch it. Appreciate Brad Spielberger for joining us
Speaker 2: today again.
Speaker 1: Follow him.
Speaker 2: He's one of the best in the business. Appreciate Tyler
Speaker 2: for joining me. As always, a special shout out to
Speaker 2: Greg Kim for producing That's gonna do it for us today. Guys,
Speaker 2: we genuinely appreciate all the support and we'll see you
Speaker 2: next time.
Speaker 1: As always, Bolt up.