Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2: Everybody's dj n V. Charlamagne the God. We are the
Speaker 2: Breakfast Club. You got a special guest in the building.
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, Mail Hill, welcome back.
Speaker 3: Hey. You know I always love to sit with y'all
Speaker 3: enjoying the conversations.
Speaker 4: That's right, And the paperback is out right now it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my baby is growed up a little bit. It's
Speaker 3: now a toddler. I guess. So a year ago the
Speaker 3: hardcover of my memoir Uphill came out and now the paperback.
Speaker 5: How was the response to putting out a memoir, because
Speaker 5: you know, in memoirs you put out so much information,
Speaker 5: You reveal things you probably never told anybody. Well, response,
Speaker 5: not just from the general public, but from like your
Speaker 5: family and stuff.
Speaker 3: The response was generally good. It was mostly positive. There
Speaker 3: was somebody in my family who took issue with it,
Speaker 3: and that created some tension and attention is still there, unfortunately,
Speaker 3: and so you know, I'm still processing that part.
Speaker 4: They did not have a conversation before, No, I.
Speaker 3: Mean it was I was. I didn't think we did
Speaker 3: have a conversation before, but I just didn't think. I
Speaker 3: didn't think how they reacted to it would be the
Speaker 3: way they reacted, and they took it to Facebook as
Speaker 3: opposed to taking it to me. Yeah, and then they
Speaker 3: aired our stuff that was not even in the book,
Speaker 3: and it was like why.
Speaker 1: You why and probably stuff that wasn't true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some of it was definitely I looked at very skeptically,
Speaker 3: and it wasn't about me. It was it was about
Speaker 3: my mom, to be candid, and so I was not.
Speaker 3: I was not happy that that that was the course
Speaker 3: of action that they chose, and so it caused a
Speaker 3: fracture in our relationship.
Speaker 5: Of my first book was the same thing and family. Oh,
Speaker 5: I can't write a book, but I can go to Facebook.
Speaker 3: Right exactly, you know. And especially it's not like this
Speaker 3: person couldn't have called me like they could have and
Speaker 3: we could have had a conversation about it. And I
Speaker 3: guess the surprising part they didn't take issue with what
Speaker 3: was written as in terms of like it not being true.
Speaker 3: The issue was when we finally did have that discussion,
Speaker 3: was that they weren't in it.
Speaker 4: Enough so that really so they wanted to decide out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, they just felt like they should have been
Speaker 3: you know, that their role in my life should have
Speaker 3: been more highlighted or more and I thought I did
Speaker 3: a pretty good job of it as it was, but
Speaker 3: apparently it was not on part with this person. And
Speaker 3: so yeah, with they roll in your life as big
Speaker 3: as they actually thought it was, well, I mean, I
Speaker 3: guess if you want me to say what it is,
Speaker 3: because I see you're getting to But it was my
Speaker 3: father who had an issue. Oh yeah, that was my
Speaker 3: father had an issue with some of the things that
Speaker 3: were in the book, not necessarily because they were untrue,
Speaker 3: but he felt like he should have been more prominently
Speaker 3: featured in the book. That was what I got from it.
Speaker 3: And so I didn't you know that didn't It wasn't.
Speaker 3: It was a very difficult conversation to have, and so
Speaker 3: those conversations have been somewhat ongoing, and I told him
Speaker 3: I needed to kind of press pause because I need
Speaker 3: to process what you said to me, because I didn't.
Speaker 3: I took a lot of issue with it.
Speaker 1: So no rerights for the paperback, no rewrights.
Speaker 3: For the paperback. So no, I was like, I took
Speaker 3: issue with it, but it's all good because everybody's not
Speaker 3: gonna love you, know what you're right? Like and It
Speaker 3: is funny we're having this conversation because obviously in the
Speaker 3: news is Jada Pinkett Smith her Oh my God, her
Speaker 3: memoirs coming out. And Jada and I when I did
Speaker 3: I did Red Table Talk this time last year, and
Speaker 3: I was telling her and share my experience. She was
Speaker 3: writing it then, and I was like, you know, I
Speaker 3: don't know what the reaction is going to be. It
Speaker 3: just kind of is what it is. And so to
Speaker 3: see a year later how people are responding to some
Speaker 3: of the things that she has decided to share. It's
Speaker 3: like she's, you know, this is her story. She's allowed
Speaker 3: to tell what that is.
Speaker 1: I agree with that.
Speaker 5: But I was saying this this morning on the radio,
Speaker 5: what is the point of constantly sharing this with us?
Speaker 5: Because it always looks like you're beating up on Will?
Speaker 3: Why does Why does everybody think Will is the victim?
Speaker 3: That's what I want to know.
Speaker 1: Because Will isn't saying anything well just.
Speaker 3: Because he's saying like I think, because it was funny
Speaker 3: reading the reaction, because I don't know what's happening to
Speaker 3: beside their marriage, right, none of us do. None of
Speaker 3: us know, Okay, but at least from because when I
Speaker 3: did Red Table Talk last year. Will pop he popped
Speaker 3: up and talked to him. He was great, and it's
Speaker 3: clear that they still have Just because they're separated doesn't
Speaker 3: mean there's not affection there. That doesn't mean that there's
Speaker 3: not respect there, there's not love there. Like I think
Speaker 3: that was kind of obvious in the interview clips that
Speaker 3: I've seen so far, is that this is the path
Speaker 3: that they have chosen. But I think it's a path
Speaker 3: they mutually chose. And so I guess the narrative that
Speaker 3: I reject, even though again I don't know the inside
Speaker 3: of their marriage, is this idea that Will is a
Speaker 3: hostage in this, And I'm like, I don't think he's
Speaker 3: a hostage. I think he's okay with where they are,
Speaker 3: right And maybe to your point, Char's like, maybe we
Speaker 3: shouldn't know this publicly, but if he's but think about
Speaker 3: the reason we do know it publicly. It's like the
Speaker 3: whole entangled entanglement thing he had because somebody else was talking,
Speaker 3: August told okay, and I have this chronology right, They
Speaker 3: responded to something else that was told. So it's not
Speaker 3: like she came out of nowhere. It was like, hey,
Speaker 3: by the way, guys, there was something that happened between
Speaker 3: me and August, else saying that that man said what
Speaker 3: it was.
Speaker 1: I love August, August. Yeah, August.
Speaker 5: What August did with Angelie with nowhere near as big
Speaker 5: as the red.
Speaker 3: Table talk, No it's not. She was responding, but she
Speaker 3: was responding.
Speaker 4: But listen, but this is the thing too, like and
Speaker 4: this is what we said yesterday.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes we look at celebrities relationships and everybody
Speaker 2: thinks everybody's relationship is perfect, right, so I think it's
Speaker 2: great sometimes when you say, hey, my relationship ain't perfect, Like,
Speaker 2: just because you see this doesn't mean we don't have
Speaker 2: the same problems that you do, the same disagreements, the
Speaker 2: same argument. So when you see a little bit of that,
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's somebody in a life just like them
Speaker 2: to be like, Damn, me and my husband is separated,
Speaker 2: or me and my wife's been separated for this amount
Speaker 2: of time and we're dealing with it, and we thought
Speaker 2: it was odd. We never wanted to share, we never
Speaker 2: wanted to tell somebody. But if it looks quote unquote normal,
Speaker 2: whatever normal is, it gives me the ability to talk.
Speaker 3: Because you and your wife have been very candid about
Speaker 3: some of the ups and downs you faced in your relationship,
Speaker 3: because people, you know, people need to know sometimes that
Speaker 3: like what you see on Instagram is not this what
Speaker 3: this is is And so I don't think it was
Speaker 3: at a point where maybe this is some information she
Speaker 3: didn't feel like should stay buried, because look, she's part
Speaker 3: of her brand now. Is that is divulging these uncomfortable
Speaker 3: truths and talking about them. It is her story. She
Speaker 3: has the right to say it. So I just I
Speaker 3: guess I'm just really surprised that people sort of characterize
Speaker 3: this that that Will is somehow in this marriage against
Speaker 3: his will, and Jada's the villain and she's the one
Speaker 3: that is making him do all this stuff. And I
Speaker 3: was like, that man is grown.
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, I don't disagree with that, just that when
Speaker 5: you hear like I never wanted to marry Will. I
Speaker 5: cried at the wedding. Now it's we've been separating. Sound crazy, Jada?
Speaker 5: Why are you why you got the man.
Speaker 1: Sitting at the red table talking talking about the en table.
Speaker 1: You can clear he don't.
Speaker 4: Want to be like why is this at that time?
Speaker 5: And I love a Pinkett smith winf you nose Carter.
Speaker 5: I'm just sitting back, like, why is this happening? Like
Speaker 5: that's all I want to know.
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I will say crazy with every I
Speaker 3: know that people look at it. It's like her honesty
Speaker 3: is maybe hurting him and making this worse than it is.
Speaker 3: It's like, Okay, she's being so honest to the point
Speaker 3: where you wonder, like, all right, did you have to
Speaker 3: pour it on that thing? But I think it just
Speaker 3: feels like that this is sort of the ebb and
Speaker 3: flow of their relationship and we're kind of witnessing it
Speaker 3: and maybe it's not what we picture because they have
Speaker 3: been held in such high esteem. They have been relationship
Speaker 3: goals for so many people for so long. But I'm like,
Speaker 3: y'all don't know what's happening behind closed door. Y'all do
Speaker 3: not know these people, all right? And I just I
Speaker 3: don't think Will is being victimized. And I understand why
Speaker 3: some people take issue with her level of honesty, saying
Speaker 3: like does all this need to be said? But I
Speaker 3: don't think Will is like some kind of victimic.
Speaker 2: I'm sure Will knew it was coming out before. I'm
Speaker 2: sure they had to have a conversation. I'm sure the
Speaker 2: first thing he seen it was on red Table Talk
Speaker 2: and she was like, I cried before I married. I'm
Speaker 2: sure they had these conversations because they had to work
Speaker 2: on their relationship, right.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I mean, I don't know. That's
Speaker 1: my point. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I can't even say, will bleak if you need to come.
Speaker 3: Out like it's okay.
Speaker 1: I don't think of that.
Speaker 5: Just like I said, I just don't think the general
Speaker 5: public needs to know everything now.
Speaker 1: I think that's what I do miss about celebrity.
Speaker 3: I want people to be go back to being mysterious. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I know, That's why I love like she. We don't
Speaker 3: know if this woman is real or not. She could
Speaker 3: be a hologram.
Speaker 1: I have no idea.
Speaker 3: But she just pop up about fifteen years, might have
Speaker 3: an album, might not? She do the same two stage
Speaker 3: And I love this woman like I don't even know
Speaker 3: what she sounds like anymore.
Speaker 1: And by the way, we don't even care. No, she
Speaker 1: never gave nobody in.
Speaker 3: Her business none at all. She live in her best
Speaker 3: life somewhere. Shout out to shade.
Speaker 1: Now, what do you think? What do you think? A
Speaker 1: second Jamel Hill book would be about well, there.
Speaker 3: Will be another Jamail Hill book, and it is much
Speaker 3: like this memoir of something I didn't expect to write.
Speaker 3: But the second book will be a children's book. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: So I'm writing a children's book, and it will cover
Speaker 3: some parts of Uphill, like just kind of you know,
Speaker 3: how I was able to overcome some adversity, and you know,
Speaker 3: some of the the more positive career stuff like, some
Speaker 3: of that will be part of it. But generally speaking,
Speaker 3: it will be sort of like my love letter to
Speaker 3: a lot of the women whose stories haven't been told,
Speaker 3: a lot of the women who I've admired, and so
Speaker 3: it'll I'm really looking forward to. I've never written for
Speaker 3: a children's audience before, so this will be quite a challenge.
Speaker 3: It'll be the opposite almost from a memoir because you're
Speaker 3: pouring everything into this book, and you know, it's like
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty three hundred pages, and a children's book,
Speaker 3: you have to be quite concise, and you have to
Speaker 3: make sure that they understand the general themes that you're
Speaker 3: trying to put about. Yet, yeah, I mean, it'll be
Speaker 3: a combination of my story and the stories of women
Speaker 3: whose stories need to be told. And you know women
Speaker 3: I've admired, so yeah, some of them famous, some of
Speaker 3: them not as famous as others. I mean, I'm trying
Speaker 3: to like really unearthed and tell the stories of some
Speaker 3: women who probably didn't get the flowers that they deserved.
Speaker 4: Gotcha.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we just had an off set up here and
Speaker 5: you had some words about his and if you would
Speaker 5: hype talk off the podcaster and you said, you feel
Speaker 5: like this is a racing real hip hop journalism.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. I mean, listen, I admit I'm spoiled.
Speaker 3: It's like when when hip hop was really coming into
Speaker 3: his own and growing, you know, that's when you had Vibe,
Speaker 3: You had Kevin Powell and Dream Hampton and Danielle Smith,
Speaker 3: and there was like a real hip hop journalism sort
Speaker 3: of movement there that covered the culture, that covered theists.
Speaker 3: Artists tried to tell the full three sixty dimensions of
Speaker 3: their stories. And as you know, you know, mainstream media
Speaker 3: wasn't messing with hip hop like that. They weren't telling
Speaker 3: these stories. And so now it's just interesting to me
Speaker 3: the platforms they wind up on, Like look at Sexy Red,
Speaker 3: Like why was she on that podcast? But what you know,
Speaker 3: like that. Does that seem like the type of podcast
Speaker 3: that you would expect Sexy Red to be on. Probably not.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 5: Beca interesting mark on the one day one time and
Speaker 5: he was talking. He was talking about how sexy I was.
Speaker 5: That's what Charlamage Care's about.
Speaker 4: That's all.
Speaker 1: It was like a whole five not bleushing, but I.
Speaker 5: Think you were a beautiful man. He was like, I'm
Speaker 5: like living, I'm blushing. That compliment is a compliment I was.
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, not Bleshing's so silly to take
Speaker 2: him on the date lady features, I promise you that's.
Speaker 1: What he would say.
Speaker 4: He remembers every.
Speaker 2: Live I do.
Speaker 1: I do, but I don't. I don't know what the
Speaker 1: old angle is what.
Speaker 3: I'm I mean, he's had an eclectic group of guests,
Speaker 3: so I guess maybe from that standpoint, you could say
Speaker 3: that she fits. But it's just I when I watched
Speaker 3: that interaction and I get it. I know what her
Speaker 3: stick is a lot of it. As many people say,
Speaker 3: like she clearly borrowed some of this from funny Marco,
Speaker 3: who actually think does it pretty well? Yeah, like he
Speaker 3: he has he's got a good thing going and her
Speaker 3: I guess looking at her rise, it was kind of
Speaker 3: curious to me, like her podcast has not been existed
Speaker 3: to that for that long. I think the way the
Speaker 3: story was told, he was like, Drake saw her on TikTok.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, on TikTok, but she was with Funny Marco.
Speaker 3: I think that's the interview that he saw. That's at
Speaker 3: least that's sort of what's been reported and out there.
Speaker 3: And then he just up and decided, you know, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna just go on this random podcast, which he
Speaker 3: has every right to do. But when I look about
Speaker 3: who are the caretakers of hip hop, the caretakers of
Speaker 3: how this culture is covered, it's us, you know, for
Speaker 3: the most part. That's not to say the OFFSET can't
Speaker 3: do interviews with people outside the culture, but I notice
Speaker 3: how those interviews are received, and for that matter, how
Speaker 3: they're treated on those interviews, and it makes me concerned overall.
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, honestly, I know a lot, a
Speaker 3: ton of black journalists who could go, who could use
Speaker 3: that kind of boost. And to me, especially given we
Speaker 3: see the danger of when our stories aren't told and
Speaker 3: they're trying to erase our stories in real time, it
Speaker 3: just I would like to see artists like him, artists
Speaker 3: like Drake, other black artists in general, be more intentional
Speaker 3: about the type of media that they try to do, right, Like,
Speaker 3: that's why Breakfast Club has the the status and the
Speaker 3: stature that it does, because this is a place that
Speaker 3: has been established for the culture. And it would be
Speaker 3: nice if some of these artists understood that there's something
Speaker 3: larger at play than just going viral.
Speaker 4: Now I agree.
Speaker 2: I agree with you because I feel like, you know,
Speaker 2: if you think about an artist like Drake or I was,
Speaker 2: I would never come or Yati or any of these.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Mean have a choice, right, Like why would I go
Speaker 1: in here and deal with that on a round?
Speaker 2: Maybe not you, but I agree, But you give somebody
Speaker 2: an opportunity that is not from the culture, that probably
Speaker 2: does not care about the culture. And there's a lot
Speaker 2: of black journalists that are coming from all these different
Speaker 2: spaces that would die for interview like that that you
Speaker 2: could really make their career.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: So you as to see Drake with Funny Marko. If
Speaker 5: he was going to do an interview like that, you
Speaker 5: had to see him do it with Funny Well, and.
Speaker 3: Especially because it was kind of funny Marko's thing, right,
Speaker 3: and so that would have made you know, kind of
Speaker 3: more sense. And even if you look at you know,
Speaker 3: I know he's a friend of the show Roland Martin,
Speaker 3: Like Roland Martin has one of the few black owned
Speaker 3: media platforms there are, like they're they're practically non existent.
Speaker 3: So that to me should be a platform that black
Speaker 3: celebrities and entertainers and musicians intentionally try to go on
Speaker 3: understanding what the landscape looks like. I mean, did they
Speaker 3: look at Rolling in that way? I know Roland has
Speaker 3: had a lot of entertainers like on his show before,
Speaker 3: and I know I get it from a political ram
Speaker 3: just using him as an example, but like when you
Speaker 3: look at how black media voices, you know, the dearth
Speaker 3: of them that are out there. Thankfully there's this you know,
Speaker 3: you of course you have like you know, other shows
Speaker 3: where Angie Angela Yee like there there there are other platforms,
Speaker 3: but I feel like that they should be very intentional
Speaker 3: about the places that they go because what what happens
Speaker 3: is the situations that you you see with Sexy Red,
Speaker 3: That's what happens.
Speaker 5: Like Brown Sugar, because you know, it's like we know,
Speaker 5: we know what hip hop is what we want it
Speaker 5: to be. But when it gets so big, like we're
Speaker 5: going to have to share our artists with other people.
Speaker 1: So yes, I think they can do both.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they can do both. I guess sometimes
Speaker 3: what does bother me is that knowing some of the
Speaker 3: teams behind some of them, and like you said, like
Speaker 3: if you're Drake, why would you come on Breakfast Club?
Speaker 3: Because you know, he knows that you've had critical questions
Speaker 3: that you've asked about him and critical conversations, and their
Speaker 3: team they don't ever want them to face any challenges
Speaker 3: in terms of interviewing, and I think that is why
Speaker 3: a lot of celebrities now think their interviews should be
Speaker 3: softball interviews, and they think that the people that are
Speaker 3: sitting across from them should try to promote them or
Speaker 3: be part of their brand. You know, like Deon Sanders
Speaker 3: after he won the first game and he was like,
Speaker 3: do you buy in? Well, it's not the media's job
Speaker 3: to buy in. It's the job to cover what we
Speaker 3: see and to like ask critical questions of like what's
Speaker 3: happening here, And a lot of publicity teams they do
Speaker 3: not want their artists in the possible position to where
Speaker 3: they have to actually answer a real question. It doesn't
Speaker 3: have to be combative, but there are things that they
Speaker 3: should be made to answer. That's part of their responsibility
Speaker 3: to the culture.
Speaker 2: Recently, Colin Kaepernick wrote the letters to Jets you in
Speaker 2: support of that talk about it.
Speaker 3: Yep. So, as you guys know, there's like so many
Speaker 3: false narratives out there about him. One. You know, people
Speaker 3: whenever his name comes up, they start running away with
Speaker 3: these things that they've supposedly heard or supposedly have been
Speaker 3: reported that haven't been He's never been not offered any money.
Speaker 3: He's never been offered a contract by another team since
Speaker 3: he left the forty nine ers. So this idea that
Speaker 3: Colinwood is asking for all kinds of money, or that
Speaker 3: he said he only wants to be a starter, that
Speaker 3: he never wants to be a backup, like, none of
Speaker 3: that was ever true. And I think the one benefit
Speaker 3: to people seeing that letter is knowing how earnest and
Speaker 3: committed that he is. He just asked to run a
Speaker 3: practice squad, he said in the letter. I know you're
Speaker 3: trying to prepare Zach Wilson to be the starter this season.
Speaker 3: I'm fine with that I'm here to support that. I'll
Speaker 3: just run a practice squad and anybody, and for those
Speaker 3: of you who don't know about the practice squad, every
Speaker 3: NFL team has won, and these are fringe NFL players,
Speaker 3: Like he could run a practice squad and admit it.
Speaker 3: I mean it's frankly, given his skill level and where
Speaker 3: he was in a game, it's something that would probably
Speaker 3: be beneath him in terms of skill set. But he
Speaker 3: is willing to do that just to show how much
Speaker 3: he wants to still keep his NFL dream alive. So
Speaker 3: I was glad that the letter came out so people
Speaker 3: could see what his true intentions are, and frankly always happened.
Speaker 1: I didn't like it for exactly what you just said.
Speaker 3: Why is that it's beneath him, like.
Speaker 5: He's Colin Kaepernick, Like you have grown to be this
Speaker 5: this figure that people look to with reverence.
Speaker 1: You know, we love what you stood for or neiled for,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 5: And it's just like, I don't want to see you
Speaker 5: writing a letter begging these people for a job on
Speaker 5: the practice.
Speaker 3: But here's the thing, though, Charlemagne, is that what he
Speaker 3: doesn't want to do is leave them with an excuse like,
Speaker 3: they can't say, oh, he was unwilling to be on
Speaker 3: a practice squad, and he was unwilling to do you know,
Speaker 3: something that would be considered like very entry level work.
Speaker 3: They can't say that because that those are narratives that
Speaker 3: the NFL has, you know, secretly tried to float out
Speaker 3: there to try to undermine his credibility. It's like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: if he really loved playing professional football, then he would
Speaker 3: lower himself and take this entry level job. And he's like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I would, so not what's your excuse? You said I
Speaker 3: couldn't throw. You said I was washed up? Okay, the
Speaker 3: Raiders said I had a great workout. What's your excuse?
Speaker 3: So this shifts it back to them, So what is
Speaker 3: your excuse?
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody believes that, though, I think we
Speaker 1: know why Colin Kaper niggas not an I think they're well.
Speaker 5: I say that he kneeled for police brutal I mean
Speaker 5: against police brutality.
Speaker 1: And he got black ball. Yeah, like nobody ever thought
Speaker 1: that always because teams didn't.
Speaker 4: Want to go.
Speaker 3: But you'd be surprised. There's still a lot of people
Speaker 3: and granted, I'll limit these are probably people who were
Speaker 3: never down with his protest to begin with, Who really
Speaker 3: want to believe that the only reason he's not in
Speaker 3: the league is just simply because he's not good enough?
Speaker 3: Even though we've seen these backups, right, Native Peterman Steel
Speaker 3: got a job, right, we see what's happening, right, And
Speaker 3: they still are clinging to this idea that sports is
Speaker 3: a meritocracy and if he were really that good, then
Speaker 3: he would be out there. But they changed, They always
Speaker 3: changed the art argument. Sort of mid conversation, it goes from, yes,
Speaker 3: it's a football decision, Well, no team wants to deal
Speaker 3: with that. Well, either it's a football decision or it's
Speaker 3: not right. Is it gonna make your team better or not?
Speaker 3: That's really all it boils down to. So I was
Speaker 3: happy he wrote the letters so people could really see,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of where his true intentions are.
Speaker 5: I feel like you you you never really said anything
Speaker 5: disparaging about it, Yes.
Speaker 3: Really, I mean not really. I mean I'm not saying.
Speaker 1: Them a plantation.
Speaker 5: No, You've never accused of anybody over there being racist
Speaker 5: a little bit.
Speaker 3: But I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1: That said you, I know Jamel Hill ain't going back
Speaker 1: to ESPN.
Speaker 3: But the thing is there's other places I could go,
Speaker 3: but you wouldn't go back to Yes.
Speaker 4: Men, Well, I mean changes if ownership changes.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 3: Things change the TV all the time. So I mean technically,
Speaker 3: I mean ESPN is paying me right now because I'm
Speaker 3: executive producing Colin Kaepernick's documentary which is airing on esp
Speaker 3: IN and directed by Spike Lee. So technically, yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean I I there's a you know, there's a check
Speaker 3: that comes via them, so to speak. You know, So,
Speaker 3: but I know what you're saying. The thing is the
Speaker 3: NFL is one to one, right, It's like, if things
Speaker 3: didn't work out of ESPN, I go to FS one
Speaker 3: or I can go to CNN or other places, like
Speaker 3: if it doesn't work out in the NFL, and that's
Speaker 3: the highest professional level, that's it. So and that's what
Speaker 3: he that's where he already was. It's not like he
Speaker 3: was aspiring and hadn't made it. No, he went to
Speaker 3: a Super Bowl, so he's already been to that pinnacle.
Speaker 3: So in that regard, because I know people are like,
Speaker 3: why would he still try to be a part of
Speaker 3: the same league that he sued and yeah, and called
Speaker 3: racists and and and we know how the NFL works,
Speaker 3: but a lot of us, especially when we choose to
Speaker 3: pursue a passion that we love, are in situations and
Speaker 3: working for corporations that make questionable decisions and questionable hires.
Speaker 3: We all are caught up in this game. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but he feels like,
Speaker 3: and I understand this wholeheartedly, He's owed this, he worked
Speaker 3: for this. This is not something they gave him. And
Speaker 3: that is why he is insistent, like, oh no, y'all
Speaker 3: gonna give me the opportunity that I fully earned. And
Speaker 3: we've seen other black athletes do it before, like the
Speaker 3: black athletes that have been ostracized. You know, even when
Speaker 3: Mack mood abdul Rolf was ostracized, he wanted to be
Speaker 3: part of the NBA right. And so because they feel
Speaker 3: like I did all this blood and sweat to get here,
Speaker 3: you think I'm not gonna take this opportunity. I earned this.
Speaker 3: My blood is on this.
Speaker 5: What do you think sometimes when God puts you in
Speaker 5: a different position, like when God exalts you in your position,
Speaker 5: because that's what I feel like happened with Kap. Don't
Speaker 5: you feel like sometimes you have to let go of
Speaker 5: things to really embrace the blessing of what is.
Speaker 3: I think he's been able to do both. He'll never
Speaker 3: let it go. Somebody asked you, you'll never let it go.
Speaker 3: I don't blame him, like I don't like I would
Speaker 3: probably be on that too. I don't know if I
Speaker 3: would be able to stand as strong as he has
Speaker 3: stood with it, but like I would be on that too, like,
Speaker 3: oh no, you just just on some pride and pet
Speaker 3: I would never find my retirement papers if I were him.
Speaker 2: But I do understand because, like I tell Charlaman, you
Speaker 2: know a kid that plays football. I got two boys
Speaker 2: that played football like they did it since age four,
Speaker 2: five five days a week in the rain, sleet, snow,
Speaker 2: four hours a day, then a game on Sunday. You
Speaker 2: give so much of your life, you miss half your
Speaker 2: summer with it.
Speaker 4: So that's all you know, right, So I do understand.
Speaker 2: I can never get that feeling because it was like
Speaker 2: it's kind of like radio or me talking like it's
Speaker 2: something that I would want to do all the time,
Speaker 2: and like you said, that's the only place to do it,
Speaker 2: Like you can't do XFL, you can't do practice team.
Speaker 2: But I also feel like because it's not the same
Speaker 2: it's not the same level of competition. It's not the
Speaker 2: same level of competition. But I but my question is
Speaker 2: if you knew that's what you wanted, right, and you
Speaker 2: knew that when you stood stood up for against violence
Speaker 2: against against us, right at that point when you were
Speaker 2: about to lose it, why didn't you say.
Speaker 4: You know what, the game is more important than this.
Speaker 3: Oh but then.
Speaker 4: Because he could have because he couldn't could have.
Speaker 3: And he didn't.
Speaker 4: Because but you can't be mad at everybody's.
Speaker 3: Well we know you can, though, because is that really
Speaker 3: what should cost you your job? It shouldn't, right, because
Speaker 3: on like the NFL is wrong. It's like standing up
Speaker 3: for what is a humanitarian issue, correct, right should not
Speaker 3: be the thing that cost you your entire career. So
Speaker 3: it is about principal and like had he but had
Speaker 3: he chosen the game, I don't know. I don't think
Speaker 3: he would could live with himself for doing that to say, like, oh,
Speaker 3: I stopped kneeling because the NFL told me they didn't
Speaker 3: like it. You can't really live with that. I mean,
Speaker 3: I know there has been professional stands that you both
Speaker 3: have probably taken, many of which we don't even know
Speaker 3: about right. And when you take these stands, you decide
Speaker 3: right there, like, hey, if this goes in a in
Speaker 3: a in a negative direction, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 4: I feel that I knew it was going back and
Speaker 4: going back.
Speaker 3: No, he wants to go back. But he wants to
Speaker 3: go back because he's old that because as you said,
Speaker 3: like you brought up your boys, he's done the same thing.
Speaker 3: Then to go through college, then to every step that
Speaker 3: he's been, he's never he's made He's made this point
Speaker 3: before every step that he's been, he's never been the
Speaker 3: number one guy. He's always had the fight to be
Speaker 3: the number one guy. So he's used to this fight.
Speaker 3: So no, he's like, I worked hard to be here.
Speaker 3: I deserve this opportunity and I'm not gonna let you.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna let you make it seem as if
Speaker 3: I'm the one that has created this that I'm not ready.
Speaker 3: And I think the NFL needs to be reminded that
Speaker 3: this is going to be a very black mark on
Speaker 3: their history.
Speaker 1: Well we know that though.
Speaker 5: Once again, we know that he got black ball, and
Speaker 5: we understand the sacrifice that he made. That's why people
Speaker 5: hold him in the high regard. I just don't want
Speaker 5: his step back to become his identity.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think it's like that. I don't think
Speaker 3: it's like that. But I do think that he feels
Speaker 3: a responsibility. That's why he's in you know, I've told
Speaker 3: people this before, you know, haven't been able to spend
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of time with him. Is like,
Speaker 3: physically he looks better than he did when he was
Speaker 3: last playing quarterback for the forty nine ers. I mean,
Speaker 3: he's been injury free, I assume paying free for years now,
Speaker 3: taking any hits. Still is on a football schedule, you know,
Speaker 3: waking up working out at five am every day, still
Speaker 3: going through the same training regiment that he did when
Speaker 3: he was playing, because he again, he doesn't want to
Speaker 3: give them the excuse. We all heard it as kids.
Speaker 3: You have to work twice as hard, and one of
Speaker 3: the things a lot of our parents drilled into us
Speaker 3: is that when the opportunity comes, it's our responsibility to
Speaker 3: be ready. And he feels like he would be doing
Speaker 3: a disservice to everything that he stood for if that
Speaker 3: call ever came and he's like, oh, I'm out of shape.
Speaker 3: I can't like they're not gonna catch him slippings. So
Speaker 3: that's why I don't ever expect this man to retire
Speaker 3: from the league.
Speaker 5: Yeah, nobody would have an issue if he didn't say
Speaker 5: they were racist a plantation, and if people around him,
Speaker 5: because you know, he doesn't speak for himself, but if
Speaker 5: people around him hadn't bashed other.
Speaker 1: Folks who wanting to be in business with the NFL.
Speaker 5: So like Rock Nation, Malcolm Jenkins, they call all of
Speaker 5: these people sellouts for wanting to do the same league
Speaker 5: that you're trying to get back into.
Speaker 3: Because I do think it does matter you're dynamic with
Speaker 3: the league. And I think his issue and I I
Speaker 3: do again, I understand this. His issue was that we're
Speaker 3: much better and have more power standing in solidarity as
Speaker 3: opposed to I mean, we already know, like the NFL
Speaker 3: Super Bowl halftime show was on life support, like nobody
Speaker 3: was messing with this at all, and we gave and
Speaker 3: it goes beyond Colin and we willingly gave them access
Speaker 3: to our culture. And they definitely did not deserve it,
Speaker 3: right they don't, we know, based off their history, the
Speaker 3: history of this country. They don't deserve a lot of
Speaker 3: things that black people do. We know this. This is
Speaker 3: our existence. This is part of it is that that's
Speaker 3: part of the struggle, and the tension point is that
Speaker 3: we're constantly fighting to be validated and in these systems
Speaker 3: that were never meant for us. That is the black
Speaker 3: existence in America for the most part, right, And so
Speaker 3: I think this struggle is no different because it's more
Speaker 3: meaningful for him if he ever is able to get
Speaker 3: back on the field. What that will mean, meaning that like,
Speaker 3: you can't kill somebody's career for this. Yes, you may
Speaker 3: not have liked the criticism towards this country. You may
Speaker 3: have liked the criticism toward this league. By the way,
Speaker 3: criticism that's not wrong. I mean the NFL was race
Speaker 3: normy up until a few years ago, okay, where they
Speaker 3: actively had policy that stated that black brains and black
Speaker 3: bodies were not worth as much as white bodies. That
Speaker 3: was literally policy. Okay, So what he said about the
Speaker 3: league is true. So race norming, this is one of
Speaker 3: the things that they use when it came to settling
Speaker 3: some of the had trauma lawsuits. They basically what was
Speaker 3: part of this, what was part of the NFL practice
Speaker 3: is that they pretty much said that black players and
Speaker 3: everybody can look it up. You can go to Google.
Speaker 3: Just look up NFL and race Norman. This is all
Speaker 3: there is one of the more undercover stories about them
Speaker 3: that they pretty much said they came up with a
Speaker 3: calculation where the head trauma that black athletes suffered in
Speaker 3: the league because they said there were certain cognitive abilities
Speaker 3: that were not there inherently. Race norming, like race storming,
Speaker 3: has been used in a lot of different medical fields,
Speaker 3: frankly to justify medical racism on us, and the NFL
Speaker 3: was using the same practice. So if y'all look it up,
Speaker 3: you will see and they stopped doing it, I believe
Speaker 3: in either twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen. It's why some
Speaker 3: of the black players didn't receive as much money from
Speaker 3: the concussion lawsuit as some of the white players did,
Speaker 3: because they had race normy as part of the formula
Speaker 3: to figure out who deserve what that is the NFL. So, again,
Speaker 3: like I said, he was telling the truth. And unfortunately
Speaker 3: a lot of the systems that we are a part
Speaker 3: of have practiced in something something distasteful, dishonorable, something that
Speaker 3: excluded us. And part of our fight is that because
Speaker 3: we built this country and because We're gonna make America
Speaker 3: live up to that brochure. They all told us a no,
Speaker 3: oh god, no, I'm not gonna say that. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say that, Nah, But I mean black
Speaker 3: people frankly. I mean this is something that cole Hanna
Speaker 3: Jones has talked about a lot. It's like we are
Speaker 3: the ones holding this damn democracy together because we are
Speaker 3: believing in the president, because we actually believe in it,
Speaker 3: and we're gonna make you do it. And so I
Speaker 3: think with Colin is a similar fight. Oh no, no,
Speaker 3: you said this, I'm gonna make you believe it. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna make you actually do what you said you were
Speaker 3: gonna do.
Speaker 2: I would I would love to see And I understand
Speaker 2: Colin happening. I understand, like I said, I understand it's
Speaker 2: in his blood right, that's what he knows. But I
Speaker 2: also would love to see him. When you talk about legacy,
Speaker 2: I would love to see him do something like go
Speaker 2: to HBC or your coach because.
Speaker 4: The amount bring there, the amount.
Speaker 2: Of kids that he can actually teach, I think it
Speaker 2: would be more impactful.
Speaker 4: Man if he made the league. If he made the league,
Speaker 4: okay cool, But if he.
Speaker 2: Takes a school like a hour to Hampton, a Morgan stage, Alam, whatever,
Speaker 2: and he coached that and got them to that level.
Speaker 4: I think it would show everybody like that would be
Speaker 4: even a bigger f you.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's interesting, And next time I see him, I'm
Speaker 3: be like, hey, you ever thought about coaching?
Speaker 1: Does he talk in his documentary?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, swears he don't talk.
Speaker 1: You don't really talk for himself. Yeah, and I don't
Speaker 1: like that either.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I seen, I've already seen some your comments and
Speaker 3: I've got you know, I got the video back and
Speaker 3: everything I have to give the notes. No, I think
Speaker 3: what people will hear from in this doc I mean
Speaker 3: he he is unloading, and I don't mean it like
Speaker 3: in an angry way, but he is. This was as
Speaker 3: you know, like he hasn't spoken very much, and so
Speaker 3: when people accuse him of like, oh, he just wanted
Speaker 3: the attention in this, like really, I mean, if he
Speaker 3: wanted this attention, this is a bad way of showing
Speaker 3: it because he rarely does interviews and he's just kind
Speaker 3: of tried to let his work speak for himself. But yes,
Speaker 3: in this documentary, you get a lot of Colin telling
Speaker 3: his own story, and so I think a lot of
Speaker 3: the people who were detractors, they will be embarrassed after
Speaker 3: they watch some of them.
Speaker 2: The sad thing about Colin is is I feel like
Speaker 2: sometimes when he speaks, people be like he's mad, but
Speaker 2: he's just giving his side whatever he.
Speaker 4: Says anything, they'd be like, he's mad, he's upset, he's this. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I just feel like.
Speaker 3: And he's not mad in this.
Speaker 1: Exactly the fair? Is it a fair doctor? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean I think so. I mean I think everybody
Speaker 3: has been able to create their own narrative about Colin.
Speaker 3: Is only fair that he finally gets a chance to
Speaker 3: share what is his perspective, share his opinions, like everybody
Speaker 3: else is at the mic. It's time that he will.
Speaker 3: And you know, I think we definitely did a fair job.
Speaker 3: You know, as you know how much fairness and journalism
Speaker 3: means to me. I was certainly that was a big
Speaker 3: part of my responsibility is making sure that this was fair.
Speaker 3: This is not just something where we're trying to make
Speaker 3: Colin look good or anything like that. Like Colin's story
Speaker 3: is his story, and we're telling that truthfully and accurately
Speaker 3: and from his perspective.
Speaker 1: What did that drop.
Speaker 3: It will be in twenty twenty four. Okay, that's that's
Speaker 3: That's as succinct as a timeline as I can give you.
Speaker 3: But I'm really impressed with where things are. I love,
Speaker 3: you know, just the energy and just the passion. You know, Spike,
Speaker 3: He's been incredible to work with, just smart, knowledgeable, all
Speaker 3: those things like legendary filmmaker you all know. But I've
Speaker 3: learned a lot doing this.
Speaker 5: Spike was there when that mine behind, very very behind,
Speaker 5: behind the see movement. But I do miss your sports takes, Jail.
Speaker 5: I talk about this all the time.
Speaker 3: You know. Let me tell you this, Charlotte made I
Speaker 3: think you deserve You should give me credit because it
Speaker 3: took a lot for me to resist texting you the
Speaker 3: day my forty nine ers just put just beat the
Speaker 3: breaks off, y'all, because because I knew this was I
Speaker 3: would see him in person, and I never said told.
Speaker 4: Me if I had your number, I would have called you.
Speaker 4: I would have put you in just for five minutes,
Speaker 4: like do you have something to say?
Speaker 1: Wash them like a black quarter. Happy to see that, Jamil.
Speaker 3: It ain't talk about like what he I was just like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we are problem, but we are a problem for most
Speaker 3: of them. We knew that, we knew that, but we
Speaker 3: are a problem for Dallas specifically, you know. And so
Speaker 3: when I when that, when I saw the final score,
Speaker 3: because I missed most of the game because I had
Speaker 3: to some other things to do, but I knew we
Speaker 3: were gonna win. I just didn't think it was gonna
Speaker 3: be like that was. I said, you know what I'm
Speaker 3: gonna I'm gonna give Charlamade some some privacy, you know,
Speaker 3: some talughts and prayers, and then when I see him
Speaker 3: in person, I be like, your boys, No, that was.
Speaker 5: The moral the first week. I'm like, yo, were going
Speaker 5: to the super Bowl? You know I say that every year. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, you went the low of the cars. That's
Speaker 5: nothing right going to super Bowl. But now against New
Speaker 5: England going to Super Bowl?
Speaker 1: What was weak?
Speaker 2: I'm like, Daddy texted them and said, charlam mane were
Speaker 2: really going to the super Bowl?
Speaker 4: Buy your tickets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just the belief is so hard.
Speaker 1: It's just that's been a different conversation.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The thing that was interesting is that everybody's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is the game that showed how far away the
Speaker 3: Cowboys are from the farting forty nine ers, But like,
Speaker 3: it's not just about the forty nine ers. Is where
Speaker 3: does the Dallas rake in the pantheon of teams that
Speaker 3: are supposed to be close to a super Bowl and
Speaker 3: they're a lot further behind? Jesus are Like, can you
Speaker 3: say definitively the Cowboys are as good as the Lions?
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I don't think you can. So
Speaker 3: it's not just about where they are with San Francisco,
Speaker 3: it's like where do they fit as being a team? Period? Yes,
Speaker 3: Like they're not better than any of those Lions, not
Speaker 3: better than any of those Yeah, it's no just disrespect,
Speaker 3: I mean and just much like most situations like that
Speaker 3: gets a lot of the blame and probably when it
Speaker 3: goes by maybe too much credit. But at some point
Speaker 3: you know they're going to have to make a decision
Speaker 3: about him. It's like is this the guy? Because it
Speaker 3: does some of it does feel like Tony Romo all
Speaker 3: over again, where they wasted Tony Romo's talent, wasted it
Speaker 3: on just historically bad defenses, like was though, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: think Romo is a is a better quarterback, but I
Speaker 3: think you can win with that, Like I think you
Speaker 3: can win a super Bowl with that, Like you can
Speaker 3: go to a super Bowl with that. I mean, no disrespect,
Speaker 3: No disrespect's coming. But like forty nine ers, they went
Speaker 3: to Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo and we're really a
Speaker 3: bad quarter away from winning it. So like I think
Speaker 3: Dak is better than Jimmy Garoppolo.
Speaker 2: The problem is with Romo, right they You know, when
Speaker 2: when Romo got injured and Dak came in, they were
Speaker 2: all loving Dak, and now Rome was better than Dak, better.
Speaker 4: Than they loved that. He came with Dak's jackstrap on.
Speaker 1: Old and hurt, and we knew it was over for Romo.
Speaker 1: Like that, that's not nowhere near is good. A quarterback
Speaker 1: is wrong.
Speaker 5: So what do you think you think they should get
Speaker 5: rid of that? I think they should get rid of
Speaker 5: the coaching staff first. I think they need to bring
Speaker 5: in a new coaching staff before they tried. Before they
Speaker 5: think about getting rid of.
Speaker 3: That new coaching staff.
Speaker 5: Mike McCarthy's offense is so predictable. It's just like he's
Speaker 5: prehistorically right.
Speaker 1: But I want it and it will never happen.
Speaker 5: I want Eric Bellamy to be the coach that Eric
Speaker 5: hit me, I'm sorry to be coaching now up. The
Speaker 5: fact that he went from the Chiefs to the Redskins
Speaker 5: another offensive coordinator is mind boggling to me.
Speaker 3: But I sort of get it because he wanted he
Speaker 3: needed to be from up under the Andy Reid shadow.
Speaker 3: Because even though Andy Reid would say like, no, Eric
Speaker 3: b enemy does call the plays and this is his offense,
Speaker 3: people still gave Eddie Reid all the credit. You come
Speaker 3: to the commanders. Uh, it's less of that, you know, frankly,
Speaker 3: and so people are able to see in real time like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: this is this is what his offense looks like without
Speaker 3: him having Patrick Mahomes and yeah, so I think he
Speaker 3: just he did it because he had to get from
Speaker 3: up under a shadow. The other problem, too, is that
Speaker 3: you fire Mike McCarthy and then the same person, same
Speaker 3: brain trust, is in charge of finding your new coach mercy.
Speaker 3: I mean, a coaching a coach opening can be good
Speaker 3: and bad. In Dallas's case, I think it's bad.
Speaker 1: You think Jerry should pass away? Is what you said.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter because it's going through the family. Yes,
Speaker 3: because you got Steven, you got his daughter, Like it's
Speaker 3: still gonna be a Jones run.
Speaker 1: Team and were basically saying we won't be good.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if it's if it's all
Speaker 3: strictly on ownership, because the one thing I will say
Speaker 3: about Jerry Jones is like he will he will spin
Speaker 3: them money to win. So it's not that it's just
Speaker 3: he won't let his own ego linquage control, relinquish control. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and he certainly won't hire another coach that could possibly
Speaker 3: be credited more than him. So like everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 3: Sean Payton, he'll never get a Shampagne Like, I don't
Speaker 3: see it. Like he'll never get the type of coach
Speaker 3: much like he had with Jimmy Johnson who will ultimately
Speaker 3: get the credit for getting the team to the super Bowl.
Speaker 3: He wants all the credit. So he needs a coach
Speaker 3: that is a little a little bit lesser than like
Speaker 3: in terms of personality profile. He he can't take anybody
Speaker 3: that can compete with his profile. That's why Deon Sanders
Speaker 3: would never do it. Like some of the Cowboy fans like,
Speaker 3: we should hire me out. I was like, that would
Speaker 3: never happen. You think Jarry Jones, don't less somebody come
Speaker 3: in there. And take all the credit and all the shine. No,
Speaker 3: it's not happening.
Speaker 1: Hey, this is the pressing. Let's go back to one
Speaker 1: one of the topics.
Speaker 5: Okay, THEO Vaughn and Sexy read all right talking talk
Speaker 5: about a couple of times. What about that interview. It's
Speaker 5: so upsetting. And the reason I say that is because
Speaker 5: I'm like Sexy Red salute to her. Yeah, political take.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people.
Speaker 5: I do know a lot of people in the hood
Speaker 5: who think that way, and I actually understand why they
Speaker 5: think that way.
Speaker 1: But I think that when you don't say why they
Speaker 1: think that way.
Speaker 5: I get it because it's simple things, right or the
Speaker 5: first step fact, let people out of jail.
Speaker 3: They give Trump credit, no follow up on what happened
Speaker 3: with that.
Speaker 1: The stimulus checks.
Speaker 5: People got fourteen hundred dollars checks in the mail with
Speaker 5: Donald Trump's name on it.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 5: When you have a government that you feel like has
Speaker 5: never done anything for you and you see.
Speaker 1: Them do a little something, it looks like a lot
Speaker 1: a lot, you know what I mean. So it's like
Speaker 1: and then when.
Speaker 5: I see all of these people who I know are
Speaker 5: politically astute beating up on her, I'm like just educate her, like,
Speaker 5: just educate the people that think that way, Like there's
Speaker 5: no need to beat up on her.
Speaker 1: It's sexy red.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't think that anybody was rushing
Speaker 3: to hear, you know, what her political texts were. But
Speaker 3: the problem is that it does it does unintentional, untold
Speaker 3: damage still and you know, like you said, that's not
Speaker 3: her fault, like she's a she's it is and it
Speaker 3: isn't because like you have a platform now, and I
Speaker 3: know that she's going to learn this in real time
Speaker 3: and it's learning this. Unfortunately, some very tough lessons in
Speaker 3: the last couple of weeks about the things that she's
Speaker 3: gone viral for is that there's going to be an
Speaker 3: inherent responsibility people listen to you. So when they hear
Speaker 3: you saying things like that and you're saying them whimsically
Speaker 3: and not very seriously, it can do a lot of damage.
Speaker 3: Like everybody doesn't have to be a Colin Kaepernick or
Speaker 3: have to be a Malcolm X or Martin Luther King.
Speaker 3: It's a reason why there was only one of these,
Speaker 3: like one of these a generation, like the reason why
Speaker 3: they don't come along a lot. But you can't undermine
Speaker 3: it right. It's like, you know, so what I had
Speaker 3: a problem with is like the misinformation. It wasn't that
Speaker 3: she gave her political take. She's allowed to give her
Speaker 3: political tape. She could have said I supported Trump and
Speaker 3: listed off the reasons that actually made a little bit
Speaker 3: more sense. Yeah, she could have said that, because it's
Speaker 3: her right to have that opinion. But it's the misinformation
Speaker 3: that that is what I see is to be more
Speaker 3: when you have that kind of platform, because like it
Speaker 3: or not, people aren't going to listen to her. And
Speaker 3: even though you know she's talked about they love Trump
Speaker 3: in the hood. I was like, well, the poles don't
Speaker 3: really show that, but that's okay, go ahead, go off.
Speaker 3: And so I took the opportunity. To your point, I
Speaker 3: saw it as a teachable moment because, as you said,
Speaker 3: there are some people who do say the same things.
Speaker 3: So let's deal with what's being said. Even though Donald
Speaker 3: Trump's name were on that stimulus check, he did not
Speaker 3: the money did not come from it me. It didn't
Speaker 3: come right out of his bank account. It was passed
Speaker 3: by Congress people. And that's part of the general collective
Speaker 3: ignorance that we have a lot of us don't know
Speaker 3: how government works. There's no shame in that because it
Speaker 3: is a complicated system. But we have to understand how
Speaker 3: legislation has passed, how policies are made, knowing the right
Speaker 3: person to be mad at, because a lot of the
Speaker 3: things that people are mad at, you know, inflation, other things.
Speaker 3: I was like, the president doesn't have a whole lot
Speaker 3: to do with that, and we're in a huge age
Speaker 3: of corporate greed like we've never seen before. And I
Speaker 3: wish that we had a better hand on who to
Speaker 3: blame because then that would help us better strategize.
Speaker 1: But you know what, I tell the tell the hood.
Speaker 5: I'll just be like, Biden gave our Stemmys two.
Speaker 3: But that was brilliant though. I was like, I mean,
Speaker 3: no president in the history has ever done that.
Speaker 4: He's like, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3: The tecks get held up because he was like, no, no,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna need that. Donald J.
Speaker 5: Trump on it because he knew, he knew the lasting
Speaker 5: impact that would have. But technically, you're right, Biden Trump
Speaker 5: signed signed it in twice, Yeah, signed it in once.
Speaker 1: Biden gave out Stemmys two.
Speaker 5: It is that's the hook, Yeah, right, That's how you
Speaker 5: get the sexy reds and all.
Speaker 3: It isn't. And unfortunately the other part of it is
Speaker 3: that the amount of media machinery behind the right wing
Speaker 3: there's no democratic equivalent, Like there's no democratic equivalent to
Speaker 3: Fox News. So when people are like, oh, democrats have
Speaker 3: a messaging problem, like, they don't actually have a messaging problem.
Speaker 3: They're just up against a force that they cannot duplicate,
Speaker 3: Like they can't duplicate having an own a NEWSMAC channels
Speaker 3: who twenty for seven. This is all they do is
Speaker 3: tell them the same ten lies over and over again.
Speaker 3: And they just don't have that because as liberal as
Speaker 3: you may think MSNBC is or CNN, they're still gonna
Speaker 3: mostly call it down the middle. Down the middle is
Speaker 3: not the same as democratic messaging. That's constantly being like
Speaker 3: we're doing this, we're doing this, we're doing this. So
Speaker 3: they're up against something that frankly, I'm not sure that
Speaker 3: they can overcome it. And it doesn't help when you
Speaker 3: have really popular people with a platform who continue to
Speaker 3: pay it the same misinformation as some of these other channels.
Speaker 3: So I hope somebody in her camp or somebody period
Speaker 3: pulled her aside and said, hey, here are the issues.
Speaker 3: If you're gonna speak about these, and if you're gonna
Speaker 3: take a pro Trump position, at least if you're gonna
Speaker 3: take one, take one that is a little more informative
Speaker 3: than the one that, oh, your facts, know your.
Speaker 1: Facts, and people just like to be entertained. Nowadays. Two,
Speaker 1: they do tru be very entertaining. That's why you see
Speaker 1: these do it.
Speaker 5: By the way, I would bet that most of these
Speaker 5: people who have Donald Trump chains and stuff they not
Speaker 5: ready to vote.
Speaker 1: But that's the other thing, why are you even care? Serious? Like,
Speaker 1: why do you even care?
Speaker 3: I don't know the people at the rallies, man, I
Speaker 3: think those.
Speaker 4: People that they read, I think you're talking.
Speaker 5: About, Like, yeah, but I know that. I'm like, I
Speaker 5: bet you didn't not resister the vote. Yeah, I bet
Speaker 5: you said you're not restable.
Speaker 3: I mean, that would have been like a great follow
Speaker 3: up to be like, oh, so are you registered to vote?
Speaker 3: Are do you playing the vote for him in the
Speaker 3: next election. That would have been something to bring up
Speaker 3: with her, But I guarantee that might be the last
Speaker 3: political question she for quite some time. So in Spotify
Speaker 3: with Spotify, I did, I did, and you know, listen,
Speaker 3: I was there. I got there in twenty nineteen, and
Speaker 3: you know, Spotify was undergoing quite a change in the
Speaker 3: sense that like they really wanted to be the most
Speaker 3: prominent brand in the podcast game, and so a lot
Speaker 3: of the things, a lot of the ups and downs
Speaker 3: and figuring stuff out. Sometimes when you become a part
Speaker 3: of something that's I wouldn't call them necessarily new, but
Speaker 3: a part of something that's like in a deep evolution period,
Speaker 3: you can, you know, you can wind up, you can
Speaker 3: wind up experiencing some of their growing prains, which are
Speaker 3: not necessarily out of malice, but nevertheless they impact your business.
Speaker 3: And so I think Spotify was overall a great partner.
Speaker 3: We had a good relationship, but for the things that
Speaker 3: I wanted to do, they just weren't a fit. And
Speaker 3: you know it was it was not an easy parting
Speaker 3: because again we were able to produce a lot of
Speaker 3: good things together. The podcast is self Jamail Hills Unbothered.
Speaker 3: You know on multiple NAACP Image Awards, one Webby Awards,
Speaker 3: like it was a very highly regarded podcast, but that
Speaker 3: in the podcast network that I created for black women,
Speaker 3: I just think ultimately weren't a fit for them. And
Speaker 3: so One thing the experience that ESPN taught me is
Speaker 3: that when I see certain things and see certain I
Speaker 3: guess for lack of better way to put in red flags,
Speaker 3: then I know, like, I probably am better off Before
Speaker 3: this gets to a point where it is contentious, where
Speaker 3: you don't like each other as much, it's probably best
Speaker 3: that I move on. Yeah, so, because I just I
Speaker 3: guess I'm really extraordinarily sensitive to those things following the
Speaker 3: ESPN experience, and so when I saw some of the
Speaker 3: same decisions being made in the same dynamics, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is probably a good time.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like Pittsburgh, the Steelers, they used to be known
Speaker 3: for this is in fact, they were good at cutting
Speaker 3: players too early rather than too late.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: Right, And so I felt like we should probably cut
Speaker 3: the relationship now as opposed to later on with this
Speaker 3: would be bad for both of us.
Speaker 1: One more question, do you still think they get Hilly's
Speaker 1: racist a reason for it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know why you said.
Speaker 1: That you thought she was racist for not wanting Vice
Speaker 1: President Harry.
Speaker 3: No, so it's not that because again, like in politics,
Speaker 3: you're not gonna agree with who needs to be the leader.
Speaker 3: It's not the general disagreement that I think people took
Speaker 3: it that way. But I know what she's doing, and
Speaker 3: I know in general what the Conservatives do when it
Speaker 3: comes to Kamala Harris is you know, I know vice
Speaker 3: presidents have other vice presidents have been scrutinized. You know,
Speaker 3: certainly Dick Cheney was Biden. I don't think so much.
Speaker 3: I mean, to be honest, like nobody really did Mike Pence. Okay,
Speaker 3: you know, so all of a sudden, this's infatuation with
Speaker 3: what the vice president does. It's just funny that certain
Speaker 3: types of criticisms that have been made about Kamala Harris
Speaker 3: are criticisms that are very unique to her being a
Speaker 3: black woman in that position. And so I feel like
Speaker 3: one of the bullhorns, one of the dog whistles they
Speaker 3: use is by throwing out, oh, you know, she could
Speaker 3: be president. Is because what they're really trying to say
Speaker 3: is like, you know, this black woman could be president
Speaker 3: if you reelect Joe Biden. And that's why all of
Speaker 3: it not all of a sudden, but that's why his age,
Speaker 3: even though Trump is like what Trump is like about
Speaker 3: the same four years ago. They vote old. Okay, they're
Speaker 3: both old. But the focus and the attention and the
Speaker 3: level of scrutiny on Joe Biden's age and health are
Speaker 3: in part due because of who is the vice president.
Speaker 3: Because the message they're really trying to see is like, oh,
Speaker 3: by showing him, you know, because as he's told people before,
Speaker 3: like he struggles with suttering, right, So he's not the
Speaker 3: most I don't think effective public speaker because of that struggle.
Speaker 3: He's probably very conscious of it, but they are constantly
Speaker 3: running these clips of him sort of looking out of it,
Speaker 3: because what they're really trying to communicate is like, oh,
Speaker 3: but you know he's behind him. Do y'all really want
Speaker 3: a black woman to be president? And I feel like
Speaker 3: Nikki Haley uses that. So one of the reasons, like
Speaker 3: when Don Lemon said that about when he criticized her,
Speaker 3: and all he was saying was she needs to be
Speaker 3: careful lobbing the whole ageism thing, because there are people
Speaker 3: out there who feel like women are aged out or
Speaker 3: they're past their prime at a certain point. Like if
Speaker 3: you say that about a woman, people are gonna have problems.
Speaker 3: So why are you saying this about your political opponents?
Speaker 3: Because if somebody comes at you that way, You're gonna
Speaker 3: be mad, That's all he was saying. Right, And she
Speaker 3: constantly is talking about Biden's age, and She's talked about
Speaker 3: Trump's age before, I believe, And so my whole thing
Speaker 3: with her is like, by constantly drumming up a level
Speaker 3: of criticism for Kamala Harris, we know what you're doing.
Speaker 3: We know the dog whistle that you're trying to blow.
Speaker 3: And given her history, I mean, what her father taught
Speaker 3: at HBCU, you know, the fact is she's a person
Speaker 3: of color in this country. And to see some of
Speaker 3: her opinions about affirmative action and about just in general
Speaker 3: the conditions of people of color and black people specifically
Speaker 3: in this country. I mean, it took a horrible shooting
Speaker 3: at Charleston for her to understand why the Confederate flag
Speaker 3: is not appropriate. So there's a lot of things on
Speaker 3: her record to check her about. So I'm not calling
Speaker 3: her a flat out racist, but what I will say
Speaker 3: is that she's very comfortable using racist dog whistles to
Speaker 3: further and advance her political position.
Speaker 5: I feel like the biggest opposition Vice President Harris is
Speaker 5: going to face is going to come from in her
Speaker 5: own party.
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree.
Speaker 5: I think that there's people in her party right now
Speaker 5: who don't want her to be vice president.
Speaker 3: I did in time, and it's the hit pieces that
Speaker 3: are done on her. It's just I don't I mean,
Speaker 3: I get it, but I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I had to go Google and see, well what did
Speaker 1: she do? Like I was like, I'm not of nowhere long.
Speaker 3: As I mean, and even some of us who are
Speaker 3: just like, well, what is she doing? Where's she being?
Speaker 3: Like she literally speaks every day guys like I don't
Speaker 3: know what to tell y'all, Like you're like, where is she?
Speaker 3: I'm like, uh, because I'm on the mailing list. I
Speaker 3: get our schedule practically every day. Like she's always doing
Speaker 3: a lot of things, like I know right now, she's
Speaker 3: on the college tour to to you know, not only
Speaker 3: just promote what they're doing in terms of alleviating some
Speaker 3: of these student loans, but also to just encourage people
Speaker 3: again to pursue their academic pursuits, because somehow in this
Speaker 3: country we got to a point where now degrees are bad,
Speaker 3: Now going to college is bad. But no that like,
Speaker 3: she's been subjected to a lot of hip pieces, and
Speaker 3: you could tell their hip pieces because of some of
Speaker 3: the things they say about her.
Speaker 1: You can tell that from within, and.
Speaker 3: They can tell that from within. It's like because I
Speaker 3: think in that is this. This is the article that
Speaker 3: mentioned how much time she spends on her hair. On
Speaker 3: her hair, Like are you serious? Like that's what we're doing?
Speaker 3: Like on her air, Like she's a black woman. I
Speaker 3: bet she is going to spend some time on her
Speaker 3: air because the moment she doesn't look presentable, guess what
Speaker 3: the conversation is going to be about the vice president.
Speaker 3: So it's like she's damned damned if she doesn't. She's
Speaker 3: caught in a really type position. And I feel like
Speaker 3: it is really it's really neutering what I think makes
Speaker 3: her such a strong politician. And like it or not,
Speaker 3: Joe Biden would not have gotten elected without her, He
Speaker 3: would not have She was the strongest, I think, person
Speaker 3: for him to run with. It was her.
Speaker 5: The general election polls that you see that shows Trump
Speaker 5: beating Biden or scaring people in the Democratic Party and
Speaker 5: they're looking for somebody to blame, correct, and it's her.
Speaker 5: And I think that there is some type of groundswell
Speaker 5: happening in that party to get her out of the
Speaker 5: picture and put somebody else there.
Speaker 3: I don't think they're going to do that because I
Speaker 3: think they know that that would be politically way worse.
Speaker 3: Because even with the conversations that have been had about
Speaker 3: Vice President Harrison our community and there being some mixed
Speaker 3: feelings in our community about her, even with all that
Speaker 3: being said, if they take her off the ticket, that
Speaker 3: will not play well with us because Black black people
Speaker 3: overwhelmingly support her, right, and this is we're the people
Speaker 3: you need to bring to the voting party you cannot win.
Speaker 3: Overwhelmingly support her. And look, I know people, I know
Speaker 3: people are gonna watch this, and I know they'll comment,
Speaker 3: you know, and say, like, overwhelmingly support Kamala Harris. Look
Speaker 3: at who's voting, and they're in our community. Look who vote?
Speaker 3: Older people vote? Right? You think older people, older black
Speaker 3: people don't love Kamala heirs. They love Kamala hairs. I
Speaker 3: think so absolutely, a thousand percent, dude, like black people.
Speaker 5: Like they will always going to show black people, always
Speaker 5: show democratic black people. I hear a lot of older
Speaker 5: black people's men and women, they don't really they don't
Speaker 5: vote for I don't know.
Speaker 3: Look, I think the majority of Black people support Kamala Hairs.
Speaker 3: I do again. I'm not saying that there have not
Speaker 3: been criticisms in our community that people have brought to
Speaker 3: the surface, like we sure about this or not majority support.
Speaker 3: Kamla Harris, all right, I mean, look, listen, do you
Speaker 3: feel like that there's another viable VP that.
Speaker 1: Will get No. I don't think that exactly. I don't
Speaker 1: think the Democrats have no bitch period.
Speaker 3: No, it's then it's then like when you look at
Speaker 3: who could have run bench.
Speaker 4: Just Claire, he said, bench, bench, No, bench.
Speaker 2: Clearly she heard bitch and I heard bitch.
Speaker 1: That's what I said. Bitch. That's all beyond you from
Speaker 1: South Carolina. Now you understand me.
Speaker 4: You heard.
Speaker 2: Said, let me clear bench, he said, bench. Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3: A lot of times when people think that you've said
Speaker 3: something on air that you haven't said, I was like,
Speaker 3: look at the person next to him. If the person
Speaker 3: next to him doesn't respond, but that means they probably
Speaker 3: didn't say it.
Speaker 4: I heard it, but I was like, you didn't respond,
Speaker 4: but I looked over your shoulders.
Speaker 3: She was like, actually said that. You would be like,
Speaker 3: hey man, bitch, very clearly bitch South Carolina.
Speaker 4: Bitch.
Speaker 5: You made me question, was like that you said about.
Speaker 1: But it sounded like you said, just now say bitch, bitch.
Speaker 5: I said, they don't have no bench, right.
Speaker 2: No bitch, no bitch.
Speaker 3: All right, I mean this, This wouldn't even make sense
Speaker 3: like the Democrats. I got no bitch like that.
Speaker 2: You just talked about. Kamala Harrison. He said they ain't
Speaker 2: got no other bitch. Bitch, he's got no other bitch.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm glad they'd be like God's crazy.
Speaker 3: That'd be crazy like charlamademla airs d.
Speaker 1: Somebody still might say that we live in that era.
Speaker 3: Somebody still solutely did not say that.
Speaker 1: Jesus people, he didn't say it.
Speaker 3: Bitch, my god, Oh my good.
Speaker 2: All right, ladies and gentlemen, Pill Memoir, the paperbacks. All
Speaker 2: right now, I appreciate you for joining us. And it's
Speaker 2: the Breakfast Club. Good morning, Wake that ass up in
Speaker 2: the morning.
Speaker 1: The Breakfast Club.
Speaker 3: M hm.