Speaker 1: Welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys We Guys Book. I'm Christina.
Speaker 1: I'm Correnn' sorry about last night, the anti slut shaming podcast.
Speaker 1: I never stopped. Hey fucker's Welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: Guys We Fuck. It's the anti slut chimmy podcast. I'm Karne.
Speaker 1: I'm Christina. What's up. I'm want to grab your pussy? Karn.
Speaker 1: What would you do if someone said that to you?
Speaker 1: I mean if they said that to me. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. People said have stayed outlandish things to
Speaker 1: me a lot. I don't really, Yeah, it was the
Speaker 1: most outlandish things. Gonna take it very seriously. I mean
Speaker 1: I get catol a lot. I mean people I've heard
Speaker 1: someone told me like they wanted to like, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: heard like people have told me they want to suck
Speaker 1: me raw, like on the street. Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm pretty immune to it from living
Speaker 1: in New York for thirteen years. I think that makes
Speaker 1: it okay. But I just like I don't have like
Speaker 1: when I don't have any respect for the person saying it,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really resonate with me. I just don't care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember last year Halloween, that last year was last
Speaker 1: when three people like grabbed your ass? Yeah, you see
Speaker 1: you were mad about that? Then I was. I was
Speaker 1: just like, because I think I have such a um
Speaker 1: low standard for people, and I hold people to such
Speaker 1: like people like random people like people I know. I
Speaker 1: hold the very high standards people I don't know very
Speaker 1: low standards. So it's just like, oh, this is what
Speaker 1: I would expect from idiots. Yeah, but what you would
Speaker 1: expect from a Republican presidential No, but I mean that
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not shocked at all, but it just
Speaker 1: remind you. It's so nice to see the entire country
Speaker 1: understand what women who have never heard it before, and
Speaker 1: men who don't ever hear it what gets said about
Speaker 1: women Like I love that everyone heard Donald Trump say
Speaker 1: you just grab her by the pussy and cringed. Well,
Speaker 1: And then I saw a lot of guys on Facebook
Speaker 1: saying like that's not locker room talking, Like, no, it
Speaker 1: actually really is that. As a comic, I'm sure you've
Speaker 1: experienced when you're the only girl in the car, guys
Speaker 1: like talk in front of you like you're a man,
Speaker 1: and people do talk like that. Yeah, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's locker room talk. I don't know, I don't even
Speaker 1: know what that means, Like are you changing for a
Speaker 1: sport and then you're talking to say that's yeah, the
Speaker 1: things that people say. Locker room talk is just like
Speaker 1: a way to say the things that men say when
Speaker 1: women aren't present. They man woman haters, club talk, right, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, but I mean that's where it kind
Speaker 1: of like started, like in the locker room, because that's
Speaker 1: one of the main places whereas a man you would
Speaker 1: be alone. And you know, athletes don't have really the
Speaker 1: greatest reputation with their treatment of women stereotypically. That's that's racist,
Speaker 1: just kidding, it's not race, I know, um and uh yeah.
Speaker 1: And so also, I mean I just don't even like
Speaker 1: what Glenn Beck had just officially endorsed Hillary Clinton. Oh no,
Speaker 1: way said post said it. Actually, that might be the
Speaker 1: kicker to getting my dad to not vote for Trump,
Speaker 1: because he's a reluctant Trump voter, because he's just a
Speaker 1: Republican and I want to call him so bad because
Speaker 1: we have a lot of political discussions when I see him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and ask him what he would think of a grown
Speaker 1: man older than him. Told me he wanted to grab
Speaker 1: me by the pussy, like what, because he's a very
Speaker 1: He's always been so ever since I was a kid.
Speaker 1: If my brother like pushed me, he would freak the
Speaker 1: funk out of my brother. And I was confused by
Speaker 1: it because I didn't understand what the sentiment was there,
Speaker 1: and he was he just has like the most utmost
Speaker 1: respect for women. He's very. That's something that's always he's
Speaker 1: always a bit of characteristic of him. And I'm so
Speaker 1: curious as to what I want to call him and
Speaker 1: ask how many things. Well, I'm like, surely he knows
Speaker 1: about the pussy grabbing thing. I don't know. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: but they're on the news. It's so funny to watch
Speaker 1: these people not say the word pussy. And then that
Speaker 1: fucking Anna Navarre I forget. I'm gonna butcher a name
Speaker 1: whatever I posted about her on Instagram. She's a Republican
Speaker 1: and she's a news anchor. She's talking to Donald Trump's
Speaker 1: campaign manager and she quoted him, and Donald Trump's campaign
Speaker 1: manager was like, can you not say that word? My
Speaker 1: daughter is watching. She's like, you don't get a funded.
Speaker 1: You get a funded when I say the word pussy,
Speaker 1: And you don't get a funded when Trump said that
Speaker 1: word pussy, and I was like, your daughter has a post.
Speaker 1: My god, you're my hero. Hopefully love here and people
Speaker 1: went wrong. I love hearing the word pussy on the news,
Speaker 1: right well, I mean yeah, I mean that's not even
Speaker 1: the most. He had so many offense and things I'm
Speaker 1: like added to them. I know, I know, And this
Speaker 1: is the one that's making everyone qunt. And also for
Speaker 1: anybody emailing us asking to stop talking about politics, this
Speaker 1: is uh, this has everything to do with sexuality and vaginas,
Speaker 1: so shut the funk up. Yeah. I personally answered some
Speaker 1: emails about you did because I had too much free
Speaker 1: time on a bus. I was like, that's don't leave
Speaker 1: me along with the emails and I have two. When
Speaker 1: I have five hours on a bus, we're gonna get
Speaker 1: some responses. My vagina is political over it? Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: I had a I also had a good weekend politics relate.
Speaker 1: That's okay, that's better. Well, I'm sure everyone is relieved
Speaker 1: to hear that. I came home from the comedy festival
Speaker 1: that I was at in Rhode Island. Thanks and everyone
Speaker 1: who came out, and my entire apartment was cleaned and
Speaker 1: everything was unpacked, every single thing. James spent the entire
Speaker 1: day that I was gone, well because we had to
Speaker 1: thin because he was like, can I stay in watch
Speaker 1: with the Ohio State game? And I was like, well no,
Speaker 1: I was because I was because you wanted to leave
Speaker 1: and come back. And I was like, I'm not giving
Speaker 1: you keys to my apartment. Like that's there. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: not giving your keys to my apartment. Uh, my apartment.
Speaker 1: I just got my own apartment. I don't want you
Speaker 1: coming and going as you please. Yeah, the first time
Speaker 1: in your life of your own. No one in the apartment. Um.
Speaker 1: And then but then he stayed in bed when I
Speaker 1: got up to leave early in the morning and then
Speaker 1: you just stayed there all day. But it was to
Speaker 1: clean spondles. I mean he also did watch the Ohio
Speaker 1: State game. But that's right now. I was very sweet.
Speaker 1: I was like, that was the nicest saying anyone's ever
Speaker 1: done for me, the number one nice. Well, the he
Speaker 1: it replaced Austin buying me food and filling my refrigerator
Speaker 1: when I was poor. That was nice. That was very nice.
Speaker 1: Austin is always very nice. Yeah, nice, do a nice
Speaker 1: because a nice guy. Yeah, gentlemen, you're probably a lot
Speaker 1: of you are probably very nice. I really do think
Speaker 1: a lot of you are very nice. I think both
Speaker 1: of you are nice. But if you have a friend
Speaker 1: is a dick who says shitty things, tell him shut
Speaker 1: the funk up. It's also a reminder that like, if
Speaker 1: you don't have a lot of money, that you did
Speaker 1: does not It doesn't matter. Those are not like for
Speaker 1: me and I think the most women are not the
Speaker 1: most important things you can do do not cost a
Speaker 1: lot of money. Oh yeah, the thought thoughtfulness of something
Speaker 1: is like that was free mountains. It's just time. Give
Speaker 1: us your time, you guys. Um, oh, so this is good.
Speaker 1: So when someone does something nice for you, you can
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Speaker 1: We Fucked in their lives? We always get tweets like
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Speaker 1: Fucked the Anti slut Shaming Podcast, they are available exclusively
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Speaker 1: we have merch now available. Go to Sorry about last
Speaker 1: Night Comedy dot com. Click on merch on the top.
Speaker 1: It's big, it's bold, it's black. All this just like
Speaker 1: my show. Yeah, all this supports the show. You don't
Speaker 1: just send us money or stuff like that. We don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought we don't need it, but just
Speaker 1: like that's not, that's not. That's just like into the void,
Speaker 1: like directly support the show if you love it, by
Speaker 1: the merch, do the extra episodes. Then we all come
Speaker 1: and then happy and then you get stuff for your money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's great. Another way to support the show is
Speaker 1: to come see us live. These segways are crushroom. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, sorry I have I'm really like a very
Speaker 1: little voice left. Uh. So we have a bunch of shows.
Speaker 1: On Sunday October sixteen at PM, Katie Hannaghan and I
Speaker 1: are bringing the Comedian Project to the stand to th Avenue.
Speaker 1: You get five dollars off with the code Sex. Then
Speaker 1: on Friday October it is Nacho b Chess Halloween Edition
Speaker 1: with Blair Saki and Me eleven fifteen pm at New
Speaker 1: York Comedy Club. That's just ten dollars with the code Nacho.
Speaker 1: The next day, Saturday, October twenty nine, at seven thirty,
Speaker 1: Wendy Starling and I bring you the Halloween Edition of
Speaker 1: Glamorous at Zinc Bar in the West Village. Bring you
Speaker 1: Halloween costume. Mine is really fucking good this year. I
Speaker 1: gotta say it's really hot in a sexy way, not
Speaker 1: in like a sweaty way, and I'm very proud to
Speaker 1: show it off. So come to Glampus fifteen tickets twenty
Speaker 1: one and up. And then we're going on tour and
Speaker 1: we're gonna remind you yet again of all of our dates,
Speaker 1: because you should come out and tell your friends if
Speaker 1: they're living in these cities. Tickets are between bucks. Some
Speaker 1: of the venues that we're going to specify our sixteen
Speaker 1: and up, some are twenty one and up. Just go
Speaker 1: to our website or the link in the description of
Speaker 1: this podcast to UH for more info. Right. And I
Speaker 1: know you're like, oh man, these tours are in November.
Speaker 1: This is so far us. No, it's no, it's not.
Speaker 1: It's like a week. You gotta buy the ticket's because
Speaker 1: if with ticket sales aren't good, they're gonna be like,
Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't do the show, and then everyone's gonna
Speaker 1: be sad. Okay UH. November two, Syracuse, New York. We
Speaker 1: are at the Funny Bone. November three, Albany, New York
Speaker 1: The Funny Bone. UH November five, New York City, Live
Speaker 1: recording of the podcast at Carolines on Broadway as part
Speaker 1: of the New York Comedy Festival. November six, Harvard, Connecticut,
Speaker 1: The Funny Bone. November nine, Irvine, California at the Improv
Speaker 1: November ten. We're sold out. L A love you really
Speaker 1: excited for that one? November eleventh, Phoenix, Arizona, stands Up
Speaker 1: live November Ontario, California. Uh, come see us at the
Speaker 1: Improv November four. We are sold out for San Francisco.
Speaker 1: November six, We're gonna be in Indianapolis, Indiana at Cracords.
Speaker 1: November three. Are in Columbus, Ohio at the Funny Bone.
Speaker 1: November eight, Caggolo Annois. I'm so excited to see your
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Speaker 1: live recording of Guys We've Sucked at the Antananeumum Theater.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna one day someone's gonna tell me how to
Speaker 1: pronounced until we get there. November twenty if closing out
Speaker 1: this leg of the tour in Cleveland, Ohio at Hilarities.
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Speaker 1: If you guys ever want to email us, you can
Speaker 1: do so. Sorry about last night's show at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: The subject of this email is female hair loss. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about it, sup, fuckers. Thank you for your amazing
Speaker 1: podcast you don't welcome. I'm twenty year old woman in
Speaker 1: a junior in college at my dream school. I have
Speaker 1: wonderful friends, supportive family. I feel like I've hit my
Speaker 1: stride academically and compete for a Division one n C
Speaker 1: double A sports program. Seems pretty dope, right. I definitely
Speaker 1: recognize the incredible privilege I have to say and truly
Speaker 1: mean all of those things. About a year ago, though,
Speaker 1: I was diagnosed with androgen genetic alopecia, a form of
Speaker 1: female hair loss. Seeing me, you probably wouldn't think I
Speaker 1: look like I'm balding. There are no bald spots or patches,
Speaker 1: but over the course of a few years before my diagnosis,
Speaker 1: my hair began to gradually thin all of our and
Speaker 1: my scalp has become more visible. I used to have thicker,
Speaker 1: curlier hair, and now it is fine and straight. I'll
Speaker 1: spare you some of the medical details, but for the
Speaker 1: past year, I've been doing everything from rogaine every single night,
Speaker 1: using a topical laser comb three times a week, switching
Speaker 1: birth control pills to a different hormonal balance, and taking
Speaker 1: a cocktail of vitamins. I've had to experiment with different
Speaker 1: ways to wear my hair so that my scalp doesn't show.
Speaker 1: This experience has been incredibly difficult for me, and as
Speaker 1: a young woman in college, I felt extremely insecure and
Speaker 1: alone in experiencing my condition. I used to feel much
Speaker 1: more confident in myself, but now and more withdrawn and
Speaker 1: don't feel beautiful very often. I have a hard time
Speaker 1: putting myself out there around men, and haven't had sex
Speaker 1: except for and on again, off again relationship since my
Speaker 1: diagnosis because I haven't felt confident enough. This has probably
Speaker 1: been the hardest part because before I was diagnosed, I
Speaker 1: had a healthy sex life and enjoyed learning about my
Speaker 1: body and experimenting with others. Every time I look in
Speaker 1: the mirror, I focused on my scalp, and it distracts
Speaker 1: me from living my life how I want too. I
Speaker 1: haven't told a lot of people about what I'm going
Speaker 1: through because, quite honestly, it's humiliating to have your hair
Speaker 1: thinning at twenty years old. Even so, I'm lucky to
Speaker 1: have the emotional and financial support of my family in
Speaker 1: dealing with this and know this and no, this is
Speaker 1: not the case for everyone affected. This condition and other
Speaker 1: forms of female hair loss is far more common than
Speaker 1: most people realize. I'm not really sure what I hope
Speaker 1: to get out of sending you this long message, but
Speaker 1: I feel like this is an issue rarely talked about
Speaker 1: that deserves more mainstream attention. I appreciate you to and
Speaker 1: your attention to all sorts of women's issues, so I
Speaker 1: thought this was a good outlet. Thank you for doing
Speaker 1: what you do. Um. This was such an interesting email
Speaker 1: because when I read it, she describes all of these
Speaker 1: amazing accomplishments that she's doing, but what's holding her back
Speaker 1: in her life and not being able to make herself
Speaker 1: feel sexy and therefore confident enough to explore sex with
Speaker 1: other people, explore own body is her thinning hair. But
Speaker 1: I welcome to being a woman. I understand that completely.
Speaker 1: I think hair is so it defines you. It it's
Speaker 1: it's obviously it's a part of you, but it's a
Speaker 1: huge part of how your your self image, who you
Speaker 1: project out in the world, who you see yourself as.
Speaker 1: Is your hair. I mean, if you have, especially if
Speaker 1: you have thick curly hair, that's a that's a unique
Speaker 1: type of hair, and I feel like that's a character trait.
Speaker 1: Like my best friend Melissa has bright red curly hair
Speaker 1: and it's beautiful and her whole life like she's people
Speaker 1: just talk about her hair. And so I know, I
Speaker 1: under Starry Russell when Carrie Russell cut her hair and
Speaker 1: everyone and yeah, then we're in her career right, not
Speaker 1: going to be in a woman Yeah. Um, but I know,
Speaker 1: I know. I knew this girl in high school who
Speaker 1: she was so amazing. She had like the most contagious
Speaker 1: laugh I've ever heard in my entire life. And she
Speaker 1: had a smile. She always had a smile on her face.
Speaker 1: And she I remember she was a little she was
Speaker 1: a little overrweight, and she had acne and she had
Speaker 1: very thinning hair, like you could see you could pretty
Speaker 1: much her her scalp um. It was like covered with
Speaker 1: a very thin layer of hair. But that just physically
Speaker 1: that's what she looked like. But she omitted this joy
Speaker 1: and happiness and confidence that she was every everyone's fucking
Speaker 1: favorite person. I oh, and I always remember that because
Speaker 1: at first I looked at her like a fucking high
Speaker 1: school kid is a piece of ship, like ego driven
Speaker 1: all about looks all you wanted to be popular and
Speaker 1: accepted for a lot of high school kids. And I
Speaker 1: just remember being like, fuck, she doesn't give a fuck
Speaker 1: what she looks like, and neither does anybody else, because
Speaker 1: she's so I don't know, she just so purely herself
Speaker 1: that she doesn't let that bother her. And I feel
Speaker 1: like that's a do you either are born naturally like
Speaker 1: that or you have to get to that place. But
Speaker 1: I do think you can get to that place. But
Speaker 1: I understand that's a hard place to get to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you're dealing with all these other things, and
Speaker 1: then on top of it, like you're you're the way
Speaker 1: that you look on the outside is changing. This is
Speaker 1: interesting because this is actually the third time this week,
Speaker 1: alopecia has been brought up. I was in a lift
Speaker 1: and the two people in the back we're talking about
Speaker 1: their friend who had alopecia. And then James just randomly
Speaker 1: last night was talking to me because he used to
Speaker 1: date a girl who had alopecia. Apparently it's super common
Speaker 1: in Indian women. Um, and she you know, this was
Speaker 1: years ago, so early twenties, I'm guessing he was. And
Speaker 1: she just wore a wig all time. Interesting. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, there's there are alternatives too to that that
Speaker 1: aren't you know, trying to grow back their hair. Because
Speaker 1: and also if anybody listening here has a similar experience
Speaker 1: and they know they have a method that works for them,
Speaker 1: email us and we can forward it to her. Because
Speaker 1: I understand, like this is it's a vanity thing, but
Speaker 1: it's important. Yeah. I mean I say, all do like
Speaker 1: one of two things. Either a go punk rock, Shannat
Speaker 1: O'Connor fucking shave it all off. And then dude, when
Speaker 1: chicks have a shaved head, I'm like, oh, you're such
Speaker 1: a babe. Well, because it's like for me, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, when we kind of all make fun of
Speaker 1: men when like they're trying to like take the one
Speaker 1: scrap of hair and like paste it over. So it's
Speaker 1: just like I think that the boldest and most like
Speaker 1: the boldest way to deal with something like this is
Speaker 1: just be like, yo, I got this and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to try to re style my hair. And that's
Speaker 1: like so much time. And then also you're filling your
Speaker 1: body with all this extra stuff that I don't think
Speaker 1: you need. I'm like, I'm like really against like putting
Speaker 1: all this like ship on your hair and your but
Speaker 1: you don't know what the long term reflects of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Is gonna do fuck it. Either shave it all off
Speaker 1: and be like, yo, this is the new me and
Speaker 1: everyone get used to it, or just wear a wig.
Speaker 1: A great awesome world where like you can have beautiful
Speaker 1: hair and that's kind of fun because like you can
Speaker 1: change it up. Then yeah, you know, I just don't
Speaker 1: think hiding it like number one, It's like if anyone
Speaker 1: has a problem with it, they could suck it, and
Speaker 1: and it's just it's just no, I mean I understand
Speaker 1: like sometimes like people a, we well, it's not of
Speaker 1: anyone else's business. No, it's not anyone else's business. However,
Speaker 1: with things that are esthetic, unfortunately, it just becomes everyone
Speaker 1: else's business. I exactly because people are visual creatures and
Speaker 1: they're everyone's an asshole upon first. Like, but my thing
Speaker 1: is you need to feel confident in yourself first. So
Speaker 1: that's I think the biggest pump to get over. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you find something that when you feel sexy. I don't.
Speaker 1: I think maybe like you're trying to feel like you
Speaker 1: did before. But things happen in your life and you
Speaker 1: are now you're a little bit different, and that's okay.
Speaker 1: It's not different bad, it's not different. It's just different. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so what is like the next up? What do
Speaker 1: you what do you look like in this next phase
Speaker 1: of your life? So it's like, also, it seems that
Speaker 1: you were so attached to this this hair that you had,
Speaker 1: and like you're more than your hair. You just much are.
Speaker 1: So uh yeah it blows. People don't talk about it,
Speaker 1: but I think you can like really flip it around
Speaker 1: and if you, I think, reinvent yourself. Yeah that's fun
Speaker 1: and exciting. And if you do choose to rock a
Speaker 1: shaped head, oh that's such a babe. Look I want
Speaker 1: to get I want to get a roll where I
Speaker 1: have to shave my hair so bad because I don't
Speaker 1: have the balls to do it or the overs to
Speaker 1: do it. But I want someone to be like, you'll,
Speaker 1: you can get this role if you I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: if you shave your head, um, and then also you uh.
Speaker 1: As far as like men go and sexuality, I think
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like this, probably like very romantic, like
Speaker 1: movie esque, a moment when someone when you feel confident
Speaker 1: enough to tell somebody what you're going through, like a
Speaker 1: sexual partner, a boyfriend, and they're gonna understand. And I
Speaker 1: think they're going to really surprise you in how well
Speaker 1: they understand. And if they don't understand, that person and
Speaker 1: they can hit the road. Hell yeah, Jack always all right,
Speaker 1: But you know who can't hit the road? Today's guest. Oh,
Speaker 1: you're not going to read an email? Your email? Oh
Speaker 1: I forgot. I thought that was your my email because
Speaker 1: I had so much to say about I forgot about that.
Speaker 1: Um okay. Uh. This is called stopped to array in
Speaker 1: Hoboken publicly, she and this guy Hoboken. Guys, it's in
Speaker 1: New Jersey. But please don't hold me accountable. Hi, Christina
Speaker 1: and Karen. This story ends well, so don't be too worried.
Speaker 1: I would love to hear your thoughts on this blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. After a dinner today, I
Speaker 1: parked my car and Hoboken and was walking back to
Speaker 1: my apartment a few streets away. As a side note,
Speaker 1: Hoboken is popular for watching football at the bars and
Speaker 1: day drinking for Sunday Funday. It's a hell hole by
Speaker 1: it is. As I was walking, I noticed a girl
Speaker 1: whose baggy shirt was falling off her shoulder and she
Speaker 1: was stumbling around. I scanned the street for her friends,
Speaker 1: but I saw no one. I turned around and walked
Speaker 1: back to ask her where she was going. She couldn't
Speaker 1: tell me any useful information. She was too drunk to talk.
Speaker 1: Then a drunk boy walks up and said she's coming
Speaker 1: home with me. I asked her if she knew him,
Speaker 1: and she kind of shook her head, but he told
Speaker 1: me no, no, they're friends. I asked him what her
Speaker 1: name is and he didn't even know her name, so
Speaker 1: I knew he was a stranger from the bar. He
Speaker 1: started walking towards his apartment again and she she just
Speaker 1: started following, so I followed them both. I tried asking
Speaker 1: her if she knew him, lights him, wanted to be
Speaker 1: there where her friends are, if I could borrow her phone, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But she wasn't making any sense. We get to the
Speaker 1: front door of his apartment and she stops and asks me, whispering,
Speaker 1: if we should go up with him. I told her
Speaker 1: I really wanted to go home to my apartment and
Speaker 1: she should come. She agreed to come with me, but
Speaker 1: she was embarrassed to reject the guy, so I told
Speaker 1: him we were leaving. He tried to coax us up,
Speaker 1: offering drinks and trying to kiss her lu She could
Speaker 1: barely speak, but she said no, no, no, no, no
Speaker 1: no no. So at this point I yelled at him
Speaker 1: and we walked away. We walked to my apartment. She
Speaker 1: drank some water and called her friend. We decided on
Speaker 1: a meeting point, and she found her friend and they
Speaker 1: got a car home. Yea, by the way, I got
Speaker 1: his first name and his address. I thought of writing
Speaker 1: a letter and telling him to re evaluate his life decisions,
Speaker 1: or maybe I should make flyers George, don't rape my friends.
Speaker 1: A fellow feminist guys A funk listener wants to go
Speaker 1: egg his house, or start an anti rape culture security
Speaker 1: task force. Well, that sounds like the lots involved. Should
Speaker 1: we do any or all of these things? Do you
Speaker 1: want to shame him off? Fair? Then she gives his
Speaker 1: actual address, which were certainly not going to read dear god,
Speaker 1: um and more stuff about that, and then she's she's
Speaker 1: she gives his name and address, but then she goes,
Speaker 1: please don't use my name. Oh girl, you girl, you
Speaker 1: crazy and also a hero. Uh yeah, listen, I like
Speaker 1: this email because number one, this is an example of
Speaker 1: going above and beyond as your responsibilities as not only
Speaker 1: a woman but a human being. This is a really,
Speaker 1: uh great example. And like I know, a lot of
Speaker 1: times we're in a rush, we're having fun, we don't
Speaker 1: have time. But this this girl does stop a rape. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he she totally did. Because when I read that emails
Speaker 1: like damn that he was definitely gonna do something. What
Speaker 1: a fucking creep. It's not shocking at all. But and
Speaker 1: this is another example. I don't think this guy. I
Speaker 1: don't think George went out and was like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: rape someone tonight. I think I think he saw a
Speaker 1: girl who was intoxicating and fucking I saw somebody, you
Speaker 1: know what, Oh, this is what I want to talk
Speaker 1: about in the intro, but maybe i'll talk about another intro.
Speaker 1: Stephen and I went to a sex house, a sex house,
Speaker 1: and took a class whatever, and I learned that this
Speaker 1: this professor was teaching it about sexuality because I wanted
Speaker 1: to add some vernacular to my you know, some good
Speaker 1: words so I can like more intelligently speak to these things.
Speaker 1: And there was a scientific study that said that men
Speaker 1: are actually their attraction for a woman grows in most men.
Speaker 1: And this is not they're not doing this on purpose.
Speaker 1: This is just the innate thing when they show signs
Speaker 1: that it is easier for the man who have sex
Speaker 1: with that woman. So I eat drunk, standing up straight,
Speaker 1: lesser clothing like this was a scientific This was a
Speaker 1: fucking study that men tend to be more attracted or scouted,
Speaker 1: like scout out the woman that give would it's in
Speaker 1: their mind the highest chance of getting laid. And I
Speaker 1: think how that I mean because men are just like
Speaker 1: rhtorically like you rejected, like that job being rejected, and
Speaker 1: that sucks, and when you rejected, you developed self conscious,
Speaker 1: self hate, self conscious, whatever the funk it is, and
Speaker 1: I think that we got to talk about it, guys.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel like he saw her and was like, oh,
Speaker 1: she'll be she'll go home with me, right, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: she doesn't know where the funk she is. This is
Speaker 1: a question of consent, and I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people were still super confused about what consent is. So
Speaker 1: if a person I'm not saying like if you're buzzed
Speaker 1: after a few glasses of wine or something, but like
Speaker 1: at a certain point, you number one, I can't even
Speaker 1: understand why it would be enjoyable. Like, I don't signed
Speaker 1: there someone who's trashed my boyfriend when we're trash, Like
Speaker 1: that's not fun. Uh So, yeah, if someone's trashed, just
Speaker 1: stay away, Like how do I know? A lot of
Speaker 1: guys are like, how do I know if I'm gonna rape?
Speaker 1: Like if I is this rape or is this not rape? Well,
Speaker 1: enthusiastic consent, motherfucker. Yeah, just don't. If someone's too drunk
Speaker 1: to even like form sentences or walk straight, Like, that's
Speaker 1: not a person you need to be having sex with
Speaker 1: for their safety and your safety, be a good person.
Speaker 1: Put him in a cab home. Okay, you don't even
Speaker 1: have to pay for the cap. Just put him in,
Speaker 1: open the door, let him go in. There's a credit
Speaker 1: card in that purse. But should this girl no egg house? No?
Speaker 1: And egging the house is so juvenile. I can't even
Speaker 1: believe that was an option. That's what that's juvenile and
Speaker 1: it doesn't solve I'm not going to do anything, you
Speaker 1: know where it's coming from. No, he's not gonna be
Speaker 1: my friend Larry being a Yeah, he's not gonna be like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, this egging must have been because I almost
Speaker 1: raped a girl. Like that's no, that's absolutely ridiculous. Don't
Speaker 1: do that. I think what you did with this right
Speaker 1: did is exactly what she should have done, and that's
Speaker 1: what needs to be done. Nothing to him. I I
Speaker 1: don't think you ever, I mean I don't think any going.
Speaker 1: What are You're gonna go to his doorstep and that
Speaker 1: be like, excuse me? Do you have a moment to
Speaker 1: talk about that? Right? Pe almost committed? Right, Well, that's
Speaker 1: putting yourself in danger. So you don't want to do that.
Speaker 1: You want to keep yourself I think in this case anonymous,
Speaker 1: because you're kind of just like this third party. Uh,
Speaker 1: you don't don't want to egg his house or do
Speaker 1: anything illegal to him or threaten him in any matter,
Speaker 1: because you're criminal too, I think maybe. I mean, if
Speaker 1: there is an organization that's giving out free literature on consent,
Speaker 1: you can have it mailed to his house. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's a bad idea, Yeah, because I think he's
Speaker 1: probably gonna understand what now you're referencing. I'm sure this
Speaker 1: is not the first time he's ever done it, unless
Speaker 1: he was so drunk that he didn't remember either. But
Speaker 1: I don't buy it. Maybe like a couple of things,
Speaker 1: like just so one day he opens his like or
Speaker 1: for a week he opens his mail, and like every
Speaker 1: day there's something about conscience. You should be really gonna
Speaker 1: be with consent pamphlets like I think that's funny and educational,
Speaker 1: so that works. But beyond that, don't be putting his
Speaker 1: stuff on face because you don't you seem like a
Speaker 1: responsible person. I mean, besides the fact that you even
Speaker 1: entertained that egging idea. But when you put someone's stuff
Speaker 1: onto social media or something like that, you're putting it
Speaker 1: in the hands of a lot of people who like
Speaker 1: might be voting for Trump. So you can't you can't
Speaker 1: gotta be careful because this is someone's going to get
Speaker 1: heated and like go murder this guy and like the
Speaker 1: that's not solving anything, So keep it to yourself. But yeah,
Speaker 1: to hail him some consent pant, but go to plan
Speaker 1: I mean plant parent who definitely has uh pamphlets of
Speaker 1: that nature. So if you go to your nearest clinic
Speaker 1: or I don't know, there's everywhere. They're probably in college camp,
Speaker 1: in your house, you can probably just have it said
Speaker 1: directly to him. Yeah that's a really good idea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it'll be funny and maybe he'll read it fingers crossed.
Speaker 1: You know who doesn't suck our guests. Yes, um, so
Speaker 1: I need to say very special thank you so much
Speaker 1: to Steve Calabria. He works at the Comedy Seller and
Speaker 1: he curates in the West Village. He curates this series
Speaker 1: with known the owner who was super into politics. It's
Speaker 1: called the Village Underground Debate Series. I cannot recommend this more.
Speaker 1: Just go to the Comedy Sellers website, google it, you'll
Speaker 1: find info. Uh And one of these debate series was
Speaker 1: a UH speech on terrorism and it was just uh
Speaker 1: um Muslim Americans and talking about anti Muslim rhetory. That's
Speaker 1: a panel, not a speech was like different, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: from Different. It's really good. These the series is it
Speaker 1: was a was a debate series and they have two
Speaker 1: sides to opposing sides. And one of the people that
Speaker 1: he got was some a guy who used to be
Speaker 1: an Islamic extremist, which I thought was so fucking fascinating,
Speaker 1: and I had all these I've talked to him afterwards,
Speaker 1: and I asked him all these questions about my perceived
Speaker 1: correlation between terrorism and sex, and it was the most
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation. And then we brought him on the mics.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. We're so excited to introduce him. This
Speaker 1: is a great and view. He has a book out
Speaker 1: called Undercover Jahati. He is not an Islamic extremist anymore.
Speaker 1: He'll tell you the whole story. It is fascinating. Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, please welcome our guests. Move bean, shake in
Speaker 1: this fair, holding in a side. It's a g sky
Speaker 1: crushed inside hope its own the door, the stinguishing up
Speaker 1: the fi. Okay, sorry, okay, we are here with Rubine
Speaker 1: and uh Man. Okay, so I met you. Thanks Steve
Speaker 1: Clabria for the comedy seller because he was like, we're
Speaker 1: doing these panels and now the panels on terrorism, and
Speaker 1: we have an ex extremist. What is it? What was you?
Speaker 1: What were you an ex Were you an ex terrorist? No?
Speaker 1: A terrorist is um, somebody who has done something acts
Speaker 1: of violence, committed acts of violence and of being you know,
Speaker 1: either identified as having done that or been caught doing that.
Speaker 1: I wasn't caught doing anything. Well, it was the mindset
Speaker 1: I was in the mindset I was it could have
Speaker 1: been cajoled into doing something when you were cajoled into
Speaker 1: being a part of the group, but you didn't be
Speaker 1: had anybody. Well, yeah, I mean that's for you, and
Speaker 1: that's really a really little standard. It's just the other
Speaker 1: kind of So what what was your do you grew
Speaker 1: up in Toronto? Yeah, born in raised in Toronto. And
Speaker 1: what was your childhood? Like, you know, my my parents
Speaker 1: are Indian. That's Bollywood Indian. Not come to our casino Indian. Um.
Speaker 1: And uh, this is the mid seventies. I'm born in
Speaker 1: seventy five. I'm gonna be forty one next week. Wow,
Speaker 1: I really thought you were like thirty. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: telling you earlier. I like like thirty whenever. Um, it
Speaker 1: was pretty I think normal in that sense. But if
Speaker 1: I kind of analyze it a bit, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a very socially conservative culture and you're now in Canada,
Speaker 1: although my dad did grew up in the UK and
Speaker 1: was exposed to a lot of the Western culture and
Speaker 1: so it was a little liberalized because of that, but
Speaker 1: it was still a socially very conservative family. And in
Speaker 1: the evenings I would actually go to kor End school,
Speaker 1: which is if you can imagine the stereotypical madressa in Pakistan,
Speaker 1: boys on the floor, rocking back and forth, reading from
Speaker 1: a scripture that they don't understand. Um, And that's what
Speaker 1: I was doing for you know, from the age of
Speaker 1: five to the age of eleven, reading scripture, rocking back
Speaker 1: and forth and not knowing a word of what I
Speaker 1: was reading. Wow, I mean that's church for most kids,
Speaker 1: right right. Well why the rocking though, I mean I've
Speaker 1: seen it. I just don't understand what is it representative of.
Speaker 1: I don't you know what. I think it just develops
Speaker 1: because you're you're you're really trying to get it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's almost really weird. It's really weird how it happens.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people do it sideways, sometimes it's back and forth whatever. Well,
Speaker 1: because some Judaism more includes some rocky and I know
Speaker 1: like when sometimes when people I'm Jewish, but sometimes people
Speaker 1: like see people doing it on the plane and they
Speaker 1: get scared, you know, the wrapping, and they're like, what
Speaker 1: are they doing because it looks yeah, what does it
Speaker 1: look like? Someone? There's not really need to do it
Speaker 1: on an airplane. I know, there's like timing and stuff.
Speaker 1: But like my my Orthodox fan was like, that's they
Speaker 1: don't need to do it on an airplane and scared
Speaker 1: of the dramatic. Yeah. A lot of some Muslims are
Speaker 1: like that too, right, It's like you got a show
Speaker 1: like I'm a Muslim. I just want you to know.
Speaker 1: I know, I wear the robe in the hat and
Speaker 1: the beard and everything, but you gotta see me praying.
Speaker 1: But I feel it, man. Yeah. So I was doing
Speaker 1: the Krand school by evening time, and if you juxtaposed
Speaker 1: by daytime, I was in the public secular school system
Speaker 1: where boys and girls are mixing. It's a caring, nurturing environment,
Speaker 1: which is a complete opposite of the Koran school I
Speaker 1: was going to. So this kind of laid the foundation
Speaker 1: for an identity crisis that would kind of manifest later
Speaker 1: on in my life. Wait, so so you're you're going
Speaker 1: to Korand school, but you're Indian. That's not usual, like
Speaker 1: from India Indian. Yeah, that's why I'm confused. Is I
Speaker 1: think it's actually very normal? It is ulim. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like India's Are you serious. I had no idea.
Speaker 1: It was rude to assume that I thought it was
Speaker 1: because I know Indian people are like very separate. We're separate.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, sorry, never again. You probably call
Speaker 1: them Pakistani or you said it's the same thing, right.
Speaker 1: It's like when somebody says, oh, you're you're American, right,
Speaker 1: No Canadian? As I have learned the past couple of
Speaker 1: days as very fascinating. I had no idea. I thought
Speaker 1: either a lot of like Buddhist, Wow, significant Muslim population
Speaker 1: in which you originally was, and then of course Pakistan
Speaker 1: or a bunch of you know, a group of Muslims decided, hey,
Speaker 1: let's create our own country, and a lot of people
Speaker 1: then after partition went to Pakistan and since of course
Speaker 1: it's been just you know, fighting. Wow, how do I
Speaker 1: miss now where Um, I feel like I know the
Speaker 1: answer to this, But was there anything about sex or
Speaker 1: sexuality relationship in the Kuran? You know, the Cooran is
Speaker 1: quite open about sexuality. Yeah, yeah, the prophet himself that
Speaker 1: was yes, muhammadan Uh he was also very open about it.
Speaker 1: In fact, there are many reports where he talks about
Speaker 1: He says, you know, ask these questions, don't don't fall
Speaker 1: back to your cultural customs, you know, which are ignorant
Speaker 1: and whatever it's it's you'd be shocked. In fact, what
Speaker 1: what's shocking to a lot of Muslims today who come
Speaker 1: from these really culturally um, really really staunch conservative backgrounds.
Speaker 1: If you were to say the same things that the
Speaker 1: prophet did, they'd say, oh my god, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: You can't say that. So so it's like, for example,
Speaker 1: you know, I never mind sexuality, even when we come
Speaker 1: to even gender issues. I always say this to young
Speaker 1: Muslim kids that I try to, you know, mentor and
Speaker 1: talk to, is that, Hey, did you hear about that
Speaker 1: guy who his he saw a job from his wife,
Speaker 1: and his wife hired him and he became her employee.
Speaker 1: And they're like, oh my god, no, this is this
Speaker 1: is terrible he's losing his manhood because of that blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. And I was like, no, that's actually that's
Speaker 1: the prophets find him, so come again. So a lot
Speaker 1: there's a huge disconnect I think, even in the Muslim
Speaker 1: world and and elsewhere that what Islam actually talks about
Speaker 1: when it says versus what the people think and do. Wow,
Speaker 1: I mean they're misinterpretation. I feel like it's part of
Speaker 1: religion almost because people with the Bible, I mean everyone
Speaker 1: takes whatever they want from it and they're like, this
Speaker 1: is what it means, and then they kind of associate
Speaker 1: thero on me. That's really interesting. I never would have
Speaker 1: even ever guessed that the prophet was down with like
Speaker 1: fucking well you thinks this way? You know there's there's
Speaker 1: just him can funck and no one else can Well no, no,
Speaker 1: they could have. I mean, there's where it usually comes
Speaker 1: from is there's a there's a verse in the core
Speaker 1: end which actually begins with if you cannot deal justly
Speaker 1: with the orphans, then marry women of your choice to
Speaker 1: three or four So you know the four y this
Speaker 1: thing you heard about there, So this is what they do.
Speaker 1: They jumped to the oh, well, we can have four wives.
Speaker 1: Oh wait a second. The first part of the verse,
Speaker 1: actually it goes culturally, goes all the way back when
Speaker 1: an orphan in order for for her to get married
Speaker 1: a lot of times that they would have to the
Speaker 1: things that they had inherited, items that they could sell
Speaker 1: for value. The instruction to the Muslim people were if
Speaker 1: you could not deal justly with them, meaning if you
Speaker 1: could not, you know, marry an orphan and value her
Speaker 1: her goods appropriately, then don't bother mary. You know, regular
Speaker 1: women in the sense that they have their assets and dotnot.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't a case. And some people try to
Speaker 1: make you know, Andersen legit argument in the beginning, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a small group of people when the rewards, a
Speaker 1: lot of men got killed, so you needed to repopulate
Speaker 1: so you could have more than one wife. And that
Speaker 1: makes sense then right today, I mean, I personally believe
Speaker 1: it has no relevance today. Uh, And a lot of
Speaker 1: people have done Yeah, I mean why did you you know? Why?
Speaker 1: Why you're more? More wise? More problems right? And then
Speaker 1: how that come? But at one point I wanted to
Speaker 1: say that the prophet had eleven wives. Now it was
Speaker 1: a play Yeah. Well, what I say is that don't
Speaker 1: don't be upset that he had eleven wives. Marvel at
Speaker 1: the fact that he kept eleven women happy. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: is a I mean, did he keep them happy? They
Speaker 1: were happy? Yeah, okay, and there was documented that they
Speaker 1: were happy. But like, if you have a prophet, I
Speaker 1: feel like you can do things like that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean a regular person, I would only be one of
Speaker 1: eleven for a profit. Yeah. And then also you get
Speaker 1: some free time then, because I mean, I imagine it
Speaker 1: would be very annoying maintenance to be married to a prophet.
Speaker 1: He probably want a lot of things. That's a lot
Speaker 1: of people may always you know, wanting to have talked
Speaker 1: to him. But again on your question happiness and sex, right,
Speaker 1: going going together? Right? Is that part of the Kuran? Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's part of the religion, and that's wow.
Speaker 1: But again, when you go back to if you go
Speaker 1: back to old world mentality, if I can use that term,
Speaker 1: you notice for a lot of people it's it's marriages.
Speaker 1: It's it's not love for the sake of love. It's
Speaker 1: marriage for the sake of duty as opposed to like
Speaker 1: for And it's only really because of the Western societies
Speaker 1: in which we live, where we're very open about it.
Speaker 1: We we actually seek out love based marriages. We don't
Speaker 1: do the duty based marriages because my family expects me
Speaker 1: to be married. So I'm gonna kind of rush around.
Speaker 1: Oh it's like it's you know, I'm getting I'm getting
Speaker 1: a little bit older. I should probably just try to
Speaker 1: find somebody and settle down. Why do we think like that? Right?
Speaker 1: That's those are totally modernist relative Western cultural you know concepts,
Speaker 1: which is fine for a lot of people, but you know,
Speaker 1: to establish it as a rule that everyone must go by,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really jive with the way the world works.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and the way humanity works because everyone's so unique. Snowflake,
Speaker 1: what was Did your parents give you any sort of
Speaker 1: sex talk? Were they also open to that interpretation of no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm being down with LPP. Well, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: recall really my dad was pretty okay. I mean, but
Speaker 1: grade five is when I had my first sex set
Speaker 1: class in public school. Oh that's young, right, Isn't that
Speaker 1: is that young? I hadn't mind in like sixth grade. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess it's a year earlier than around the same time,
Speaker 1: So that's where I got it from. I really didn't
Speaker 1: get it from my parents or even my cultural community.
Speaker 1: They're all, you know, uptight. It's it's the stereotype. They
Speaker 1: really are as bad as you think they are. I
Speaker 1: mean that's just the reality of about And what did
Speaker 1: you what a sex type like in Canada versus the States.
Speaker 1: I didn't even think that. I would imagine it's better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's always better in Canada. Yeah right, No, it's um.
Speaker 1: I think it was just normal, normal things, like first
Speaker 1: it's like properly identifying body parts, you know, let's get
Speaker 1: that down first, right, right, and then you know, and
Speaker 1: then consequences of that, so it was it was really cool.
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, if you're gonna have sex
Speaker 1: using condom, because this is how there's the penis and
Speaker 1: there's a guess what happens. It goes in there and
Speaker 1: then that dot dot Yeah, that's great. I mean a
Speaker 1: fifth grade was like yeah, actually I was thinking about
Speaker 1: six year. I was like, no, I think it was
Speaker 1: ninth grade for me because it's high school. So that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that was much later. So if you started in fifth grade,
Speaker 1: that's good because hopefully no one's having sex before the
Speaker 1: fifth grade fingers cross. When did you have sex for
Speaker 1: the first time? I was fourteen. I held out, I
Speaker 1: held out, held out. I was in the I was
Speaker 1: in the Army Cadets. So if I if I go
Speaker 1: through my life again, I went to the Corean school,
Speaker 1: was you know, got out of the Corld school by
Speaker 1: the time I was eleven, Public school around the same time.
Speaker 1: And then when I was thirteen, I joined the Army Cadets. Whoa,
Speaker 1: you can join What is the Army Cadets ROTC. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, okay, you guys called it junior r OTCY.
Speaker 1: It's really for teenagers from the twelve to nineteen is
Speaker 1: the age range? In nineteen you gotta get out because
Speaker 1: you know, nineteen year olds and twelve year olds and
Speaker 1: probably not a good mixed um year olds in fake guns. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh so I was in the Army Cadets. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I told I came from this background. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have sex until I'm married. And then
Speaker 1: this really hot blonde girl jumped into my sleeping bag
Speaker 1: and then we fucked And then is that the first
Speaker 1: time you met her? No? No, no, no, it wasn't
Speaker 1: the first time I met her, I mean, she was
Speaker 1: in the Army cadets. You know, I liked her. I
Speaker 1: thought I was in love with her. And then but
Speaker 1: of course after, you know, after we had sex, I
Speaker 1: was consumed by a feeling of guilt, right, because that's
Speaker 1: what you're brought up to. At some level, you should
Speaker 1: have of course, modesty and and some you know, some
Speaker 1: you know, respect for yourself. Don't just be completely throw
Speaker 1: it out there. But but just for me, I thought, wow,
Speaker 1: this is what that's the first emotion that came to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and now did you were more more puzzled out of fourteen?
Speaker 1: You went straight to fucking why I was? I was
Speaker 1: nine time I was thinking about I mean, I was
Speaker 1: thinking about it. But like I would have been, I
Speaker 1: would have been like, oh my god, I was made
Speaker 1: out with this guy. I'm fourteen? How crazy? Like how
Speaker 1: did you? What did you? How did you even know
Speaker 1: how to do that? Oh? Yeah, I think you figure
Speaker 1: it out? Were confused? I to have sex when I
Speaker 1: had sex at eighteen in college? Yeah, when I was fifteen,
Speaker 1: I learned that an involved insertion for the first time.
Speaker 1: The American sex said, but did you finger people before that?
Speaker 1: You go right to No. No, Um, let me think,
Speaker 1: because I do have a finger memory. So it was
Speaker 1: in a rollerblading arena, of all places. It was you know,
Speaker 1: you know it goes h you know, rotor blading, fingering,
Speaker 1: same thing, dating, rink fingering. Sex. No, there were I
Speaker 1: did have some um, you know, non intercourse related sexual experiences. Um.
Speaker 1: But but if I can kind of be open and
Speaker 1: I mean totally cool, I'm totally cool with it. When
Speaker 1: I was younger, yeah, my I was sexually abused. But
Speaker 1: I mean there were a couple of incidents of attempted
Speaker 1: force penet ration by an uncle. Okay, yeah, so so
Speaker 1: it's not that I mean, I guess I could kind
Speaker 1: of say that was my first thing that was assault. No,
Speaker 1: that's the exactly. It is a sexual experience, even though
Speaker 1: it was not wanted. Do you remember how old you were? Yeah?
Speaker 1: It was ten? Fuck yeah, and and did you know
Speaker 1: it was wrong. We get a lot of emails from
Speaker 1: people saying that they were abused by a family member
Speaker 1: with the kid and the most common, most common type
Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, it's crazy. It's not stranger assault. It's
Speaker 1: never relatives. Always someone you're related to or know very well.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, because it's just it's just easier because
Speaker 1: did you not what? Uh, there's so many reasons why
Speaker 1: a child would not say something, because because they don't
Speaker 1: want they don't know how to respond to it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't know. What's the opening? The authority, the dynamic
Speaker 1: between an authority who was an adult that we assume
Speaker 1: in adults, an authority of her child. Yeah, am I
Speaker 1: doing something wrong by not by not playing along children
Speaker 1: so easily manipulated into whatever? And so did this person ever?
Speaker 1: Did you ever front the person? I did? I did
Speaker 1: confront him later on. Yeah, it was quite. It was quite. Um,
Speaker 1: it was quite the closure I should say, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty much. I mean I was a little bit older.
Speaker 1: I was sixteen, and I was with some of my
Speaker 1: friends and you know, we, yeah, we we let him know.
Speaker 1: I beat him up. I did not beat him up,
Speaker 1: but we I did put a baseball bat to his face,
Speaker 1: aluminum baseball bat and um uh And I said, you know,
Speaker 1: if you ever do this again, and I hear about it,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be watching because he's still around
Speaker 1: in the community, right, and he's remarried. This is again
Speaker 1: the same story. Right when you hear when when when
Speaker 1: you hear and uncle has done this? Whatever? He of
Speaker 1: course he got divorced from his wife, right because I
Speaker 1: guess whatever other problems he may have been having, did
Speaker 1: the wife ever find out? I don't know that, I
Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, I felt really good to put
Speaker 1: the bat right to his head. And man, you know
Speaker 1: this malevolent smile on my face, grin on my face.
Speaker 1: But what I had done is even after all these
Speaker 1: experiences happened, and I know, like you know, you felt
Speaker 1: like as a man, especially where you got to be powerful,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be strong. You feel that you were you
Speaker 1: were disempowered, you were now were stripped of your masculinity.
Speaker 1: Is what a lot of guys say to us. That's
Speaker 1: why I met are so much less or more reluctant
Speaker 1: to come for with sexual assault because yeah, the stigma
Speaker 1: of it, yeah, being psychologically and socially right. But actually
Speaker 1: I started to read about it and I went to libraries.
Speaker 1: I was reading it, but I wanted to quote unquote,
Speaker 1: fix myself, to make sure that nothing was was wrong
Speaker 1: with me quote unquote, But but nothing's wrong with me.
Speaker 1: At fourteen, when she jumped in the sack with men. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're like, hey, let's try vagina. Did that experience
Speaker 1: with your uncle ever make you question if you were
Speaker 1: homosexual at all? Yeah? I actually thought, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: am I going to become a sexual deviant? Is what
Speaker 1: I thought? Because sometimes it's it's nor it happens because
Speaker 1: it's a dysfunctional experience. So the mind will usually manifest
Speaker 1: into a rebound into some other dysfunctional behavior. But do
Speaker 1: you think homosexuality is as functional? No, no, no, I'm
Speaker 1: not saying the stung. I'm saying like people who sometimes
Speaker 1: go through that, they feel that, oh my god, they
Speaker 1: might think that they might think, oh my god. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a really awful, confusing thing is to happen to
Speaker 1: a child. I mean, it's that's crazy. So um so
Speaker 1: you sucked a fourteen and sleeping back and it wasn't good?
Speaker 1: Did she? You guys hang out that we did cuddle, cuddle. Um,
Speaker 1: you know what happened was I was in the tent.
Speaker 1: My buddies were by oh my god. Next year there
Speaker 1: were there was a couple where it was a big tent, right,
Speaker 1: and so it was an orgy. That was not all,
Speaker 1: but they were they were totally like I. I. Of
Speaker 1: course I was, you know, caught up in the moment. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then after I could hear them giggling, knowing that
Speaker 1: they know, and they're like, who is that? And then
Speaker 1: she basically got up and ran out of the tent.
Speaker 1: And then so I got in a little bit of
Speaker 1: ship the next day. It was cool and um and
Speaker 1: then of course, actually her friend came up to me
Speaker 1: and says, hey, did you come inside her? Wow? What
Speaker 1: a direct question. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what she said. Um,
Speaker 1: and I said, I don't know. You didn't know, so
Speaker 1: you didn't use a condom? I did not use a condom. Okay,
Speaker 1: when you're young, sometimes stuff doesn't come out. I'm learning. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I fourteen year olds, if you're gonna
Speaker 1: do not have sex without condom? Yeah not MTV. I
Speaker 1: think maybe it was a a psycholo a psycho somatic
Speaker 1: thing that I was made there either consumed by guilt
Speaker 1: and this is something I should not be doing. And
Speaker 1: so you know, don't you know, stay back, you know,
Speaker 1: if only we had that. Now, did you tell your
Speaker 1: family that you were going to wait to have sex
Speaker 1: until marriage or was this just a plan that you
Speaker 1: told yourself like, hey, well you tell yourself that based
Speaker 1: on what your parents have told you. Okay, so it
Speaker 1: was just a wrote thing that I was telling myself. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did the guilt eventually just go away? Because sex is great?
Speaker 1: So whatever, Well what happened was then again trying to
Speaker 1: you know, uh close a loop in that cultural context.
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I'm in love with her, right
Speaker 1: and you know, puppy love, right, and and I and
Speaker 1: I prayed to God that she would convert to Islam
Speaker 1: so that I could openly marry her. Did not work out?
Speaker 1: Did you suggest that to her? I did? I did
Speaker 1: suggest that to her, and she was like no, she
Speaker 1: was like, no, my parents will kill me. So like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1: And growing up as a kid, did you have any
Speaker 1: uh people give you ship for being most like, did
Speaker 1: you experience any racism? Did you you know, know when
Speaker 1: I was in that period, because we'll get to the
Speaker 1: period where I was I became overtly religious and then yeah,
Speaker 1: I did see the racism whatnot. But no, while I
Speaker 1: was growing up, not bullied, not picked on, I didn't
Speaker 1: see any of that. We were the cool kids in
Speaker 1: high school. Nice. It was like pure cliche hanging out
Speaker 1: with the high school girl. You know, high school cheerleaders.
Speaker 1: Sleeping bag right, No, we're sleeping bags this time, just
Speaker 1: sleeping bag. Now it's now it's out in the bush.
Speaker 1: And then back at the school right now now No,
Speaker 1: not me, but I mean there was a place that
Speaker 1: was kind of known for that. So every school had
Speaker 1: sucking bush. So then what, yeah, what happens next in
Speaker 1: your I'm I'm earning seventeen, um, last year high school.
Speaker 1: My parents have left the house, they're out of town.
Speaker 1: I call everybody up. I'm like, party at my Everyone
Speaker 1: shows up. We got we we got everything. They're all right, girls, guys,
Speaker 1: everyone's smoking, drinking. I don't think there was fucking, but
Speaker 1: I'm there was. Yeah. Um, and my uncle walks in.
Speaker 1: Oh no, uncle, and the bad not that one okay,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like you didn't go bad and even
Speaker 1: looked around. I was like, everyone's too older. Yeah, these
Speaker 1: people are old. It's fun. Well this this uncle hard
Speaker 1: ass um, you know, close cultural context, closed mind, like
Speaker 1: he's you know, he was an asshole. Children shouldn't have fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and it's last famous for you
Speaker 1: to laugh and smile and oh my god, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: they're they're very uptight. It becomes like why are you laughing?
Speaker 1: There's they must be doing something wrong, you know. So
Speaker 1: so anyways, he comes in and he loses his ship, uh,
Speaker 1: and you know, screams at everyone, and people start fleeing
Speaker 1: the house, like fleeing, like they were like launching themselves
Speaker 1: off of I have this veranda that goes all the
Speaker 1: way around well the half of the house, so the
Speaker 1: front and the long side of the house, the front veranda,
Speaker 1: a top floor second veranda, and in the back there's
Speaker 1: a balcony with a slow rail. Right. People were literally
Speaker 1: jumping off of the balcony. It was and because neighbors,
Speaker 1: I mean neighbors who were literally pulling up to the
Speaker 1: house their houses. Uh. A few days later when I
Speaker 1: came back because I took off recover of days, they
Speaker 1: were like, what the hell was going on at your house?
Speaker 1: Like people are literally like flying out of so uh.
Speaker 1: So ship hits the fan and and I'm just drought
Speaker 1: right now. So for me, my world is trashing. Um,
Speaker 1: I have defiled the home, I have dishonored the family.
Speaker 1: And I tell myself the only way for me to
Speaker 1: salvage this is for me to quote unquote get religious.
Speaker 1: Whoa because from a house party. Well, and and think
Speaker 1: about it, think about the in the Christian context iss
Speaker 1: that born again experience. Oh yeah, something bad happens and
Speaker 1: then you're like, oh yeah, Jesus, it's usually a car
Speaker 1: accident about not like not like can hard heart weight.
Speaker 1: Well what they call this. I mean even in radicalization studies,
Speaker 1: if you these are the the life crises that happens.
Speaker 1: So it could be it could be it could be
Speaker 1: something like a death in the family and it makes
Speaker 1: people completely go rebound the other way or something that
Speaker 1: has challenged their very core as they perceived their core
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, and I when in perspective, put it
Speaker 1: in perspective like when you're seventeen thirty, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to give a ship about catching me having a party,
Speaker 1: right right, But yeah, at seventeen, it is a big deal,
Speaker 1: big deal. So so that's what prompted me to UM.
Speaker 1: I decided, Okay, I'm gonna join this group. It was
Speaker 1: like a it was a missionary group, but it was
Speaker 1: an a political missionary group. So what they do is
Speaker 1: they only proselytize to other Muslims. It's basically telling them. Look,
Speaker 1: if you want to if you want the world to
Speaker 1: change the way you want to see it, you have
Speaker 1: to pray more, and you have to fast more, and
Speaker 1: you have to do those kinds of things. Nothing, you know,
Speaker 1: nothing crazy. But that took me to India and Pakistan.
Speaker 1: So this is May of seventeen eighteen, right, eighteen? Jeez
Speaker 1: rama because yeah, so so I was nineteen actually right,
Speaker 1: because I turned twenty in September of Uh, Like seventy
Speaker 1: five is my year, so September I would turn twenties.
Speaker 1: I was nineteen maybe ninety five. I end up in India, Uh,
Speaker 1: two months in India, two months in Pakistan. In Pakistan,
Speaker 1: I get sent to a city called Kutta Quetta for
Speaker 1: those who know U is was that time the stronghold
Speaker 1: of the Taliban. Oh ship. Yeah, so unbeknownst to me
Speaker 1: when I went there, and I was in the mosque
Speaker 1: and we're sitting there with our tobliguie group, I'm looking
Speaker 1: in the mosque and I can see other guys who
Speaker 1: look just like the guys that I'm with. Well, those
Speaker 1: guys are not to Blague. Is their Taliban? How do
Speaker 1: you know? Because they're not with any of our groups.
Speaker 1: So I was thinking, like I thought in the beginning, Oh,
Speaker 1: there must be other groups with the same you know movement.
Speaker 1: I just don't know who they are. But they ain't
Speaker 1: That's right, That's that we didn't even we didn't even
Speaker 1: start talking about the Taliban in America until like much later.
Speaker 1: I didn't Yeah, yeah, we didn't have no, we had
Speaker 1: no idea like who what all in the fall of
Speaker 1: is when they came to power. And so what happened
Speaker 1: was when I was there in Kueta, I, you know,
Speaker 1: being this So you can imagine this kid that comes
Speaker 1: from this identity conflicted, you know environment, thevulnerable has army
Speaker 1: cadet experience, so it is familiar with the military and
Speaker 1: has this and which which also fosters adventurism, and it
Speaker 1: has this identity and a greater purpose and sense a
Speaker 1: greater purpose. Here I am now and I'm literally sitting
Speaker 1: in front of them, And so the story goes like this.
Speaker 1: I was actually going around the local area and trying
Speaker 1: to proselytize as we were taught to do. And it's
Speaker 1: like a Jehovah's Witnesses from I was going to say,
Speaker 1: are you interested in being a Muslim today, Are you
Speaker 1: interested in being a better Muslim because you suck at
Speaker 1: your Muslim right now? So mohammedank I don't think he
Speaker 1: would be. What you gotta do is you gotta come
Speaker 1: with us to the mosque that we're at and listen
Speaker 1: to our lectures and dot dot dot that was the line. Right.
Speaker 1: So I'm walking in this area with the local fixer
Speaker 1: and I can see from the distance there's like this
Speaker 1: compounded area with foliage growing out of it, out of
Speaker 1: all the like it was a very desert like in
Speaker 1: Kueta is a place called Belochia Stunt and it's like
Speaker 1: a desert like geography. So you see this, this this
Speaker 1: compound with all this foliage coming out, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's you know, odd and cool. And so as I
Speaker 1: came closer, I could see these what looked like tobleague
Speaker 1: guys crouched on the wall just under the drape of
Speaker 1: the foliage of the trees and whatever for shade. Of course,
Speaker 1: right well, as I came closer, I realized these guys
Speaker 1: were armed to the teeth, rocket propelled grenades, machine guns
Speaker 1: in their hands. So I thought to himself, whoa what
Speaker 1: you know? I came and you know, friendly Canadian guy,
Speaker 1: and and I went over. I could tell the fixer
Speaker 1: was like, oh god, no, oh no, no, no, right,
Speaker 1: he got he is. You could see the tension on
Speaker 1: his face, like he was almost fearful. So you're like,
Speaker 1: are you interested in being a better mot that's my gun? Well,
Speaker 1: very good way to put it, because I said to them,
Speaker 1: if you want to bring about change in the world,
Speaker 1: you do it by prayer and fast. And then they're like, well,
Speaker 1: if you want to change the world, you do it
Speaker 1: with this, And he held up his a K forty seven.
Speaker 1: Holy fuck. And then you said that's another option you
Speaker 1: could do that. Yeah, I see what you say. Well
Speaker 1: for me it was wow, what a statement. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: and I was intrigued by them, became completely intrigued, enamored
Speaker 1: if you. Then later on we let them know where
Speaker 1: we were at the mosque. And then because they were
Speaker 1: what do you mean Canada and there's Muslims in Canada.
Speaker 1: These guys are faking illiterate farmers who live up in
Speaker 1: desert Land. That's an a K forty Yeah, yeah, there
Speaker 1: are people who need Yeah, well you don't need to
Speaker 1: read bullets, right, motor skills. So anyways, they came back
Speaker 1: to the mosque with us and I fired their A
Speaker 1: K forty seven a few times. It was fun, but
Speaker 1: I was bit by the jihadi bug, is what I say.
Speaker 1: So when I came back in the fall of I
Speaker 1: left the a political group and I joined the very
Speaker 1: political extremist groups, the Taliban. Well the So the Taliban
Speaker 1: represented the global jihadi culture at the time. So nowadays
Speaker 1: we're caught up in the different manifestations of that general
Speaker 1: jihadi culture. So the Taliban at my time was the
Speaker 1: first manifestation. Then when I come back to Toronto, I
Speaker 1: link up with more extreme guys, young guys like me
Speaker 1: who were born and raised here who are English or converts,
Speaker 1: right and um. Then this guy named Osama bin Laddin.
Speaker 1: Yeah work, he's a he's a good swimmer, swimming with faces.
Speaker 1: Yeah um. And so he gives his fatbah uh you know,
Speaker 1: is like a legal ruling, well of course, which he
Speaker 1: was not qualified to give because he's not as a
Speaker 1: Islamic scholar. I was gonna say, was he a high
Speaker 1: up position. He's just got the rab money, that's why.
Speaker 1: So he's a rich Arab in a place his father's
Speaker 1: his company's have been. Lad In Company is a huge
Speaker 1: construction conglomerate. So it's like kind of like trump up.
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I mean, I'm just there are some
Speaker 1: there are some connections to the story. So the so
Speaker 1: so so ninety eight is the Bin Ladin, you know,
Speaker 1: manifestation of that general jahaddie culture. And then of course
Speaker 1: nine eleven happens, and that's the real in my face,
Speaker 1: holy ship, what kind of people have I linked myself with? Now?
Speaker 1: Were you down with Bin Laden prior to you were
Speaker 1: like this guy's this ship. What did not meet damn it?
Speaker 1: Did you? What did you say that you were like? Yes, right,
Speaker 1: This is a very good question because this, I think
Speaker 1: drives when we talk about radicalization extremism. It's what's called
Speaker 1: a singular narrative, and that is there is a war
Speaker 1: on is lamb the West is fighting it. You need
Speaker 1: to do something about it. And that is the that
Speaker 1: is the straight script. So for a lot these young
Speaker 1: kids who are, whether you want to look at it,
Speaker 1: psycho socially, they're marginalized, they're iso lated. They every time
Speaker 1: they listen to the news, they're hearing everything is anti Islamic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: politicians like people should you should be more responsible than
Speaker 1: that be, you know, saying these things and doing these things.
Speaker 1: And then so when you see that, you feel that
Speaker 1: you are deprived. There's a deprivation that you're feeling. So
Speaker 1: what happens is you then need to identify who's responsible
Speaker 1: for this deprivation. Well, it's this government, the US government is,
Speaker 1: or you know, the coalition or whatever. Right, whether it's
Speaker 1: true or not, that's how it's constructed. But Osama was like, yo, fun,
Speaker 1: the US government basically, that's what he was saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: his thing was the crusaders, he called them right now,
Speaker 1: because you know the I can understand that. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, Western armies are going to Muslim lands. They're
Speaker 1: going to see them as invaders. We're not going to
Speaker 1: see them as liberators. Yeah, and and any anti Muslim
Speaker 1: rhetoric that's coming out of American politicians mouths is only
Speaker 1: feeding into extremists. Like it's it's like, how do you
Speaker 1: not get that what you're doing is egging everybody on
Speaker 1: to do worst things, Like come on, I know, I
Speaker 1: can only I can only conclude that these are these
Speaker 1: are malevolent souls, right, these are people who are they
Speaker 1: have darkness inside them, and so darkness manifests in their thinking,
Speaker 1: in their actions, in the way that they that they
Speaker 1: are so and and this do you think it's because
Speaker 1: like they think they feel cheated by the world or
Speaker 1: cheated by something, Because I know that can manifest darkness
Speaker 1: in a person. Yeah, yeah, I mean I guess at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you know, we're social creatures.
Speaker 1: We we construct our realities based on the environment stimuli
Speaker 1: that we receive. And so if you have your identity
Speaker 1: attached to let's say a cultural group, religious group, travel group,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, national group. Uh, you know, anything that's
Speaker 1: seen as an existential excuse me, anything that's seen as
Speaker 1: an existential threat to that identity in that culture is
Speaker 1: going to be responded to, usually with violence. So if
Speaker 1: you can apply that model, that theory to let's say,
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter, right, they're fucking shooting black people left,
Speaker 1: right and center. I mean, well, I you know, I
Speaker 1: it's I was wondering, like, how is that a political
Speaker 1: movement Black lives I thought it was just like a
Speaker 1: regular social thing of like cops shoot black people, which
Speaker 1: they shouldn't do. I mean, there was a veteran who
Speaker 1: came back and said, army veteran, we can't kill unarmed
Speaker 1: people in Afghanistan and we're a freaking war with those people. Okay,
Speaker 1: how is it that I come back here and I
Speaker 1: see cops who are not soldiers although they think they
Speaker 1: are shooting people. Well, the guy that training, he says,
Speaker 1: what kind of training are you getting here? Yeah? Well yeah, terrorism.
Speaker 1: The guy who was responsible for the bomb in Chelsea
Speaker 1: uh in Manhattan was caught alive. There was a shootout,
Speaker 1: but they didn't shoot him. And recently a black man
Speaker 1: was killed because his car style in the middle of
Speaker 1: the road and he had his hands up and he
Speaker 1: didn't have anything on him. Like, but the terrorists gets
Speaker 1: taken a lot because you want to know what the
Speaker 1: funk he was planning like that, because he wanted to
Speaker 1: disregard for life and giving somebody a gun and who
Speaker 1: doesn't know what the fun to do with it. I
Speaker 1: mean that we care more what terrorists us to say
Speaker 1: than what person from our own country, like the media
Speaker 1: see it was all stories about this bomb and honestly, like, yes,
Speaker 1: it's important, like tell me what's going on. But my
Speaker 1: have a trainer who is um it was Jewish and
Speaker 1: her parents li in Israel and she's like, this ship
Speaker 1: happens to my parents every day, Like it's you guys
Speaker 1: are really and they're like, oh, well, guess where one
Speaker 1: of the places that the Chelsea bomber had gone too frequently? Oh,
Speaker 1: I say, I was on the news that we're saying like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he pieced out for like two years and then came back.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, I mean, why do you go
Speaker 1: there for a long vacation? Yeah? Um, so so that's
Speaker 1: that's I mean, nine eleven happens, um And what did
Speaker 1: you What did you think during land Were you like, yes,
Speaker 1: this is a good thing. Well, initially, yeah, initially I did,
Speaker 1: I'd be honest, And usually when I get because you're
Speaker 1: you're following this guy who's like fucking America, you know,
Speaker 1: in better terms than that. But and then obviously this
Speaker 1: is the biggest We're like, we're killing people all the time,
Speaker 1: but just like we don't think of it like that
Speaker 1: because we're like, oh, we're seeking justice and were and
Speaker 1: we're spreading freedom and stuff. But I'm like that's happening.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, it sucks when it happens to you.
Speaker 1: But I'm like it should suck for us all when
Speaker 1: it happens to anyone like that. We should never rejoice
Speaker 1: in the killing of others. That's being you know, having
Speaker 1: empathy and sympathy, right. Um. You know they always say
Speaker 1: it's like, it's not propaganda when we say it. Of
Speaker 1: course it's not terrorism when we do it right, right,
Speaker 1: So but I should I should? I guess at I
Speaker 1: think it's important since we're talking about fucking I got married,
Speaker 1: so oh yeah, so I love this story. It's great.
Speaker 1: Uh did you get me a stranger in Coweta? And
Speaker 1: no no, no, no no no no no no no no. Uh.
Speaker 1: In high school we used to we used to hang out.
Speaker 1: You know, there were different circles that would kind of
Speaker 1: mix with each other, and we were a big pod
Speaker 1: heads and metal heads, right, that was that was our thing.
Speaker 1: And there was a girl in that group, um, the
Speaker 1: Polish girl. So here it goes. So when I'm in
Speaker 1: early so this is I guess a great tannish um
Speaker 1: sixteen um, trying to kind of be whatever. And so
Speaker 1: I was always told, you know, keep your gaze down
Speaker 1: right when you're walking, and don't you know, check out girls.
Speaker 1: It's stupid, right, So and it's so stupid. But here's
Speaker 1: how it goes. So I'm keeping my gaze down and
Speaker 1: I see these cherry ducks and I don't like, those
Speaker 1: are some nice cherry ducks. And I follow the cherry
Speaker 1: dogs up and I'm like, whoa, those are some nice legs.
Speaker 1: That's a nice ass. Holy sh it. And here's this
Speaker 1: hot little polish blonde girl. And I'm like, so for
Speaker 1: a year and something, I was like, who is she?
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. I was like totally, you know. And
Speaker 1: then I then I go away and I get religious
Speaker 1: quote unquote, so we know each other already. I get religious,
Speaker 1: and I come back to see my friends and so
Speaker 1: I'm nineteen by this time. When I come back, they're
Speaker 1: my last like younger year friends there in their last year. Um.
Speaker 1: And so I come back and she sees me, and
Speaker 1: now I'm I have a beard, I'm wearing robes, I
Speaker 1: have a turban. Now well, everyone was like what the hell?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, they were just like, now, suddenly you're a
Speaker 1: religious guy, you know. And I was like, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I am right. And she told me later on that
Speaker 1: that's when I started I got attracted to you, thinking
Speaker 1: what makes a guy go from this all the way
Speaker 1: to that. So the mystery of that, the mystery maybe
Speaker 1: the exotic nature of it. And then so I was,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I was, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: we I went to the friend's house. We were hanging
Speaker 1: out and she was there and we were talking and
Speaker 1: we just kept talking. And then and then it was
Speaker 1: so weird because now I was in this rigid ideological world.
Speaker 1: And I said to her, and we were talking, she
Speaker 1: was actually reading Roumi as a Persian poet, Muslim guy
Speaker 1: Sufi Sufi um poet and uh, and she reading it
Speaker 1: right in front of you. Is that you would comment? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: you're reading right right right, Hey, Rose is there right now? Um.
Speaker 1: So we were talking and then what I said to
Speaker 1: her was and I was very like clinical almost about it.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, you know, if your views were
Speaker 1: a little different, I would propose marriage to you. WHOA.
Speaker 1: That was quick and she was like she gave me
Speaker 1: that look like what the bug? Uh? And then and
Speaker 1: then afterwards actually she said okay, I'll do it. And
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: unders understand what what what this means and what you're
Speaker 1: saying and blah blah blah, like I'm gonna need you
Speaker 1: to cover right, so cover your In fact, in the beginning,
Speaker 1: I suggested she veiled, okay, And what did she say?
Speaker 1: She was like, well, I'm not ready for the veil thing,
Speaker 1: like I can do the head covering thing. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: was my suitcase hated that or wait a second, or
Speaker 1: just bowed to Mecca? Right? Wait, So so you were like,
Speaker 1: all right, if you want to be with me, I
Speaker 1: would propose you. But if that would happen, you do this,
Speaker 1: this and this, well, sound of a bit. Did you
Speaker 1: feel I mean, at the time, you're like, well, this
Speaker 1: is what would happen if if we were to do this,
Speaker 1: Like it was logical to you. You didn't feel like
Speaker 1: you were. Did you feel bad trying to change her? No?
Speaker 1: I didn't. Now what Now the trouble was, how was
Speaker 1: I going to convince my parents? Because she could If
Speaker 1: she converted, then then you can say, well she's a convert, right,
Speaker 1: and then it's okay. Is it okay? Even when the
Speaker 1: little white easy, I feel like still it's like yeah,
Speaker 1: white and blood. Well that's that's the thing, Like the
Speaker 1: the the culture and my relatives or whatever. So here's
Speaker 1: what I said. I said to them. I knew, first
Speaker 1: of all, I did not want to marry an Indian
Speaker 1: girl because I did not like the culture that I
Speaker 1: was seeing with whenever I had traveled to India. You know,
Speaker 1: the misogyny, the cast system, all that stuff. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to be a part of that. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to import into my life in the country. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: another family who was just going to replicate old world
Speaker 1: mentalities because yeah, the woman's family too is a part
Speaker 1: is like family. Yeah, yeah, you're not just marrying her,
Speaker 1: You're marrying her freaking village sometimes, you know. So that
Speaker 1: bothered you. But then why were you okay with things
Speaker 1: like the head coverings and stuff like that, because it
Speaker 1: seems like that's not that it's a misogynists. I can't tell.
Speaker 1: It's if it just feels like women are being treated differently.
Speaker 1: They are, I mean, they are being treated differently. But
Speaker 1: the this is the debate nowadays, right, does that necessarily
Speaker 1: mean that they're being valued unequally? Does well in some
Speaker 1: places being valued It feels like they're being valued more,
Speaker 1: but also like it's not allowed to make anything. We
Speaker 1: have jectified. We have to keep them in this crate
Speaker 1: because the break or something that there's there's two there's
Speaker 1: two ways of thinking about it, right, I mean you
Speaker 1: have those that are who are misogynistic people misogynists uh
Speaker 1: and patriarchal and um and see women as the lesser
Speaker 1: of the two. They absolutely do. But you know there
Speaker 1: is something I mean, the religion is very clear. I
Speaker 1: know there's a lot of misrepresentation and you know, bad
Speaker 1: Muslims are showing people. So of course people are going
Speaker 1: to think most you know, Slam treats women like dirt.
Speaker 1: But the religion itself is not like that. So for example,
Speaker 1: we gave the example of the prophet you see upon
Speaker 1: him the Cadija. The wife is the one who proposed
Speaker 1: marriage to him. Oh hell yeah right. You see that
Speaker 1: she was her own she had her own business, and
Speaker 1: she retained ownership and assets over the business even after
Speaker 1: she got me right, So it's Slam. The religion it actually,
Speaker 1: at that time, four plus years ago, gave women rights
Speaker 1: which really even were conceived the relatively recently so what
Speaker 1: we say, like right to vote in Canada, Well, women
Speaker 1: they could initiate divorce, they could owned businesses, her assets
Speaker 1: even when she married the husband. The husband did not
Speaker 1: have a default access to her assets, but the husband
Speaker 1: all his assets, the wife has access to them, so
Speaker 1: he is he is ordered to pay from his assets
Speaker 1: to the for the well being of his wife. And
Speaker 1: so it seems to look at the way that the
Speaker 1: woman was more powerful. So the way that the model
Speaker 1: is developed, they are they retain more power. But what
Speaker 1: happens is you'll get this in especially in misogynist cultured
Speaker 1: patriarchal cultures, the notion that a woman can have this
Speaker 1: more this power over the man did not go down
Speaker 1: well with people tweets and men. Men well, because if
Speaker 1: you've got if you've bought into that, then even the
Speaker 1: women will will play into that right and reinforce that
Speaker 1: because you can't tell because I used to say, like
Speaker 1: when when when a woman is covered up in New
Speaker 1: York City? I see where I covered up all the time,
Speaker 1: and I when I first went there, I was like,
Speaker 1: this is impressive, But I don't know that woman gold
Speaker 1: totally feels very proud, you know what I mean. Go
Speaker 1: and talk to them, you'll be very surprised. In fashion,
Speaker 1: we just have New York. There was this story about
Speaker 1: a fashion designer who did a whole line of clothing
Speaker 1: including I mean, I don't know, I guess it was
Speaker 1: burkas uh, but it wasn't. It wasn't a full book.
Speaker 1: You know. It was beautiful and she was dressed like
Speaker 1: that is it just called the vs a proper name
Speaker 1: for well, the job is the head that covers and
Speaker 1: then then the club is the veil, and the burka
Speaker 1: is the Afghan thing, which is that blue and it's
Speaker 1: just got a screen mesh for a face. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I've I've I've tried one on and honestly, I almost
Speaker 1: had a panic attack. And I'm not like someone who's
Speaker 1: prone to that, but I truly felt trapped. But I
Speaker 1: mean that I was like, well, this is just not
Speaker 1: my thing. I'm sure if I grew up wearing one,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh that is that is not. That
Speaker 1: is not the religion. I know. I know the Afghans
Speaker 1: might try to maintain that it is. It is not.
Speaker 1: I mean, the face, the eyes have to be uncovered,
Speaker 1: they have to see where they're going at least right,
Speaker 1: And it's like it's it's a problem to to to
Speaker 1: wear that and to even see and think it feels
Speaker 1: like hot no, no, it is. You would you know,
Speaker 1: you would think it's it's it's weird because maybe they're
Speaker 1: used to the weather. Sometimes, like when I moved to
Speaker 1: Syria after nine eleven, Syria after nine eleven, nine eleven happens,
Speaker 1: I think to myself, this is wrong. I need to
Speaker 1: study my religion properly, you know. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: initially we were I was like kind of happy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but as the day went on, it was it was
Speaker 1: a monumental event. And you know, I went to see
Speaker 1: my friends and initially, you know, the bad Muslims, and
Speaker 1: they were all like, yeah, this is great. And then
Speaker 1: one of them even asked, They're like yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: those are noncombatants, Like what what do they have with
Speaker 1: our fight? Right? They were just work going, They're just
Speaker 1: going to work. And then there was this awkward silence
Speaker 1: for like a second, and that was it. That, in
Speaker 1: that little space is when I realized, yeah, see that
Speaker 1: that's that's wrong. Of course, a guy they were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: well a guy chimed in and said, no, they're they're
Speaker 1: Kofar anyway. They're infidels anyway, so it doesn't matter and
Speaker 1: what infidel what does that mean? Well, just it's the
Speaker 1: ultimate out group. Right. So if you think about it
Speaker 1: from the psychological perspective of in groups versus outgroups, or
Speaker 1: tribes versus tribes, you have your tribe and then there's
Speaker 1: that other tribe that's like the bad tribe. You fear
Speaker 1: their invasion, you fear their influence. You won't let their
Speaker 1: daughters marry their men, that's for sure. So that that
Speaker 1: whole us versus them dynamic. This is what had developed.
Speaker 1: So I decided I needed to study my religion properly.
Speaker 1: I moved to Syria. Um two, you know it was
Speaker 1: it was a wake up call, I think, Um, did
Speaker 1: you see in Syria? You know there was a semblance
Speaker 1: of normality in Syria, right, there was. I mean it
Speaker 1: was a police state. That's the thing that I saw first. Um.
Speaker 1: You know that the cab driver was trying to like
Speaker 1: get intel out of me, like to see where is
Speaker 1: this guy, Like this guy's got this beard, you know,
Speaker 1: giant beard. This is oh, my god, is the terrorists? Right? So? Wow? Okay,
Speaker 1: So I was, I was, I mean I was, But then,
Speaker 1: my friend, that's weird. Well I was actually called Taliban
Speaker 1: more in Syria than in Canada. Wow. I think about that.
Speaker 1: Did you go America and was a man? Americans? They're
Speaker 1: they're easily afraid. Yesterday I came back from New York yesterday.
Speaker 1: I saw this Jewish girl, young couple Jewish who had
Speaker 1: a scarf. But the scarf, the tails of the scarf,
Speaker 1: you know, it wraps the head, but then the tails
Speaker 1: run down her her body right there, doesn't cover the neck.
Speaker 1: So I thought, for a second, I was like, what
Speaker 1: a sec Is that a Muslim? You know? But I
Speaker 1: knew she wasn't because I know this other Jewish couple.
Speaker 1: They dressed like that, and so I knew she was
Speaker 1: Jewish and I could tell obviously about her husband. That
Speaker 1: young couple of twenty two years old. So I went
Speaker 1: to talk to them, and in the beginning they were
Speaker 1: kind of creeped out. They're like, oh god, well, because
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I was coming to asking them
Speaker 1: questions about it isn't right off the streets. I was
Speaker 1: in the airport. That's that's extra scary. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: I had had an army shirt on, so that well,
Speaker 1: maybe because he saw the brown guy and they're like
Speaker 1: a Muslim and oh my god, he's gonna you go
Speaker 1: on planes. Does everybody look not at all? Really, you
Speaker 1: gotta if you gotta, if you see the way I
Speaker 1: looked before, Yeah, totally different stuff. I looked like a
Speaker 1: Taliban guy, like I mean, I looked the part. So.
Speaker 1: Um So. The point is that while I was in Syria,
Speaker 1: you know, I had I met the Sufi s. Sufis
Speaker 1: are more esoteric internal um you know, focusing more on
Speaker 1: the forest, not so much missing the forest for the trees, right,
Speaker 1: that's our Yeah. So um so, I I met a
Speaker 1: Sufi who went through the Koran, went through the verses
Speaker 1: that these guys used that they hijack, take out of context,
Speaker 1: completely out of hijack. Yeah, that's what they do, literally
Speaker 1: and physically and figuratively. Um And and you know, I
Speaker 1: saw it was a police state in Syria. I really
Speaker 1: I started to realize, whoa, I have it pretty good
Speaker 1: in Canada. Actually, I realized, you know, the Sufi world.
Speaker 1: And then I really you know, and what had happened
Speaker 1: was I mean, she's it goes crazy. Two thousand three,
Speaker 1: the invasion of Iraq happens. A lot of guys who
Speaker 1: were there went to fight in here in Iraq. Well
Speaker 1: your your guys, oh people that were going to the
Speaker 1: same school. I was going to the which school um
Speaker 1: and and as well there were two British nationals who
Speaker 1: had gone through the Goal and Heights using their British
Speaker 1: passport to Tel Aviv, and one blew himself up in
Speaker 1: a cafe. So, yeah, Enda, actually I met him. What
Speaker 1: kind of guy was like? Normal, normal, normal guy, normal guy,
Speaker 1: No way you could ever tell? No, big beard like yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, not regular jack like British styled, you know,
Speaker 1: westerner and and and this was the fascinating part of
Speaker 1: the conversation that how when I first met you the relationship,
Speaker 1: what sex has to do that like the virgin is
Speaker 1: part of it? Right? Yeah, so he really thought, do
Speaker 1: you think this guy who blow him up in a cafe?
Speaker 1: He was doing really badly on tin journey, was like,
Speaker 1: this is the only right forget this wife? Was that
Speaker 1: the main part was that, a very small part was
Speaker 1: was was was dedicating himself to the religion, looking good
Speaker 1: in the eyes of his the people he looks up
Speaker 1: to in the religion more important than the virgins. Where
Speaker 1: the virgins? All right, so let me let me do okay,
Speaker 1: two things. One, I'm just gonna very quickly finished the
Speaker 1: chronology and then because then I'll be able to come
Speaker 1: back to those points. So oh two to oh four,
Speaker 1: I'm in Syria. I go through this period of de radicalization,
Speaker 1: you found appreciation of rights in the West. I come back, um,
Speaker 1: and I'm basically recruited by the intelligence Service, a Canain
Speaker 1: security intelligence service. I become an undercover counter terrorism operator
Speaker 1: reader and I do that for two years infiltrating groups, um,
Speaker 1: doing all you know, the stuff that you met with terrists.
Speaker 1: You pretend to be friends with terry, yes, yeah, yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: infiltra rating their groups, gathering intelligence on them, target all.
Speaker 1: You're getting paid a lot, because I wasn't getting a lot.
Speaker 1: It's it's actually public information. I was getting paid ready
Speaker 1: for this bucks a month. What hang out with terrorists?
Speaker 1: And I had a part time job doing messenger services
Speaker 1: like courier services. You were a bike messenger and you
Speaker 1: hung out with car like the van in the van
Speaker 1: and you pretend to be a terrorist for your country
Speaker 1: because like like you know, as it all came out
Speaker 1: later in court, I wasn't doing it for the money,
Speaker 1: right And in fact, that's what the agency liked about me,
Speaker 1: is that, Wow, this guy is doing that for fifteen
Speaker 1: d bucks. He doesn't even ask for a raise, and
Speaker 1: he's producing all these good results. What's the angle here?
Speaker 1: Were you taking a court? Well, then what happened was
Speaker 1: there was a criminal investigation of a group that I
Speaker 1: had infiltrated, the Toronto eighteen. This wasn't two thousand and six. Eighteen.
Speaker 1: Guys got arrested. Well, I I traversed over as a
Speaker 1: police agent, and so I became a witnessing court. So
Speaker 1: I spent four years in court. That ended in two
Speaker 1: thousand ten that I got online. You know, the Syrian
Speaker 1: War had begun and twelve the Arab Spring happened, and
Speaker 1: then suddenly I started to discover all these guys talking
Speaker 1: about wanting to go and join this group called Islamic
Speaker 1: State in Iraq and Syria. So all the t and
Speaker 1: too much of I was online with these kids, talking
Speaker 1: to them, trying to troll them, dissuade them, de radicalize them.
Speaker 1: And so here we are. How do you deragal? How
Speaker 1: did you try to de radicalize someone from joining ISIS isis? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I use I use ISIS because I mean it's a
Speaker 1: pagan you know, Goddess r Isis and Osiris. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: there's a sign with with with Isis the Egyptian goddess
Speaker 1: with a sign not in my name. But so so
Speaker 1: let's so answering both questions, how do you de radicalize
Speaker 1: somebody like that wants to join Isis? And also what's
Speaker 1: the role, what's what's deal with the virgins? Right, so
Speaker 1: let's start with the core and the core and mentions
Speaker 1: celestial maidens and and it does say, I mean so
Speaker 1: understand that the primary audience are the men. Okay, so
Speaker 1: um and it's it's um, you know, Bedouin Arabs and
Speaker 1: those who lived in the desert culture, right, desert societies.
Speaker 1: So when God is describing, as we believe God is
Speaker 1: describing heaven, surprise, surprise. Heaven is described as full of trees.
Speaker 1: So in a desert environment, that's probably what your heaven
Speaker 1: looks like. Lots of trees, and it has rivers, It
Speaker 1: has rivers of water, it has rivers of honey, it
Speaker 1: has rivers of pure milk, and my favorite, a river
Speaker 1: of wine that does not give you a hangover. Are
Speaker 1: you serious that that's where you lost me? Because that's
Speaker 1: not that's that's that happen. I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: might join. So so I'm trying to set a general,
Speaker 1: very general because within that context, because you know, the
Speaker 1: context goes, we are created beings sent to this world
Speaker 1: to live our lives in a proper way and to
Speaker 1: incline ourselves towards the angelic soul, the angelic nature of
Speaker 1: our soul, as opposed to those who do the opposite,
Speaker 1: the inclined towards the more based animal part of their soul.
Speaker 1: So in this created context, there's an equation. So away,
Speaker 1: if you jump off a building, you're gonna fall down.
Speaker 1: There's gravity right Well in in paradise you can fly
Speaker 1: and things like that. So the construct is completely different,
Speaker 1: The equation is completely different. You have a humanoid body.
Speaker 1: But for example, you will, like in the Koran, it
Speaker 1: mentions when it will be shown to them the fruits
Speaker 1: on these trees that people would say, oh, these were
Speaker 1: like the fruits that we used to eat in in
Speaker 1: on the earth when we used to live there. Well great,
Speaker 1: but that that food that's in parative doesn't give you
Speaker 1: like you don't get gas, you don't fart, verb shit, piss, puke,
Speaker 1: And this is specified. Yeah, it says specifically that your
Speaker 1: bodily fluids your body poetically. I'm sure it doesn't. It
Speaker 1: doesn't like fart no more, shall not wipe my ass.
Speaker 1: In that context, it's the equation is different. So when
Speaker 1: it will also say yes, the men will get celestial maidens,
Speaker 1: and in fact they're described I'm gonna they're described as this.
Speaker 1: They're they're one is wide eyed, okay, number two, they're
Speaker 1: they're made of light. Okay, number three, you can see
Speaker 1: the marrow in their bones. Hot what I was like?
Speaker 1: What like, they're very pale, I don't know, translucent, translucent beings.
Speaker 1: So you can fund ghosts everyone wanted to do and
Speaker 1: keep this in sucky this and is so um so
Speaker 1: so in that context. So this is so this has
Speaker 1: been very boorishly described as virgins in Paris Christ that's
Speaker 1: where the game, that's where. And when they say virgins,
Speaker 1: they mean, well, yes, these are beings that have been
Speaker 1: created that no man has touched, untouched. That's what they
Speaker 1: mean by that. So so when they say they're versions, right,
Speaker 1: it's not like you know, seventy chicks that don't know
Speaker 1: what then they're doing. It's not inexperienced, right, it's like
Speaker 1: a whole different. So, so this is I think very
Speaker 1: important for our like your talk especially, so you see
Speaker 1: how the in that clue in that in that cultural
Speaker 1: context where it's very you know, ritual purity and all
Speaker 1: these things, suddenly it becomes all about sex. Suddenly it's
Speaker 1: all about getting those celestial maidens. And so a guy
Speaker 1: who wants to blow himself up, that that British kid
Speaker 1: or or whoever you name it, Like even to this day,
Speaker 1: they're still doing it. Kids who want to go and
Speaker 1: join isis they think, because we're gonna go in battle,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna die as a martyr, and martyrs get these uh,
Speaker 1: these these special celestial maidens. And if you imagine, this
Speaker 1: was the point that I had made, and I think
Speaker 1: this is really at the crux of it. When you're
Speaker 1: telling young kids, Muslim kids who are living in the
Speaker 1: West in a hyper sexualized society that we live that
Speaker 1: you can't you know, the best is the Jewish one,
Speaker 1: which is naval gazing, Like, dude, that is not going
Speaker 1: to help you. That's not helping you because like you
Speaker 1: got naval rings and damn you got something like so
Speaker 1: that's that doesn't help. And then so when you tell
Speaker 1: them you can't talk to members of the opposite sex
Speaker 1: because you might lose control and have sexual urges, and
Speaker 1: I tell them that's good, that's a good thing, you know.
Speaker 1: Um So, so when you're telling these kids you can't
Speaker 1: engage and interact with members of the opposite sex without
Speaker 1: it becoming something like, oh my god, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's no freaking wonder. Your frame of reference is immediately
Speaker 1: I want to get those virgins, and the why I
Speaker 1: can do it is by blowing myself up holy ship.
Speaker 1: So it's like sexual exactly because just logically, though, like
Speaker 1: the way you described it in the wording that it
Speaker 1: actually describes it like it's it's very clear, seemingly that
Speaker 1: that's not possible, that that's not going to happen, Like
Speaker 1: it doesn't. They don't even seem like real things that
Speaker 1: you could get. Like it's very hard for me to
Speaker 1: wrap my mind around anyone believing that this would happen
Speaker 1: unless you're young and suppressed, right, I would imagine it's
Speaker 1: just I mean, like, I don't know, because I mean
Speaker 1: I can, I don't. I don't believe in God, but
Speaker 1: I can. I can, I can. I can understand how
Speaker 1: someone can. That doesn't seem crazy to me, but that
Speaker 1: it just doesn't it's yeah, to blow yourself up and
Speaker 1: not m Well, so what they do is have regard
Speaker 1: for the other lives that are take what So again
Speaker 1: it's martyrdom, right, So the idea that you would you know,
Speaker 1: you would give your life. Yeah, I understand that. I
Speaker 1: just truly don't understand that they that they act, they
Speaker 1: believe that they're going to get celestial Well, the number
Speaker 1: one thing at the core of it is that they
Speaker 1: believe that they're martyrs, never never mind getting the benefits. Yeah,
Speaker 1: something they are fighting for, something that they believe in
Speaker 1: with every fiber of their being. What they believe in
Speaker 1: happens to be something that wrong sometimes caused death people.
Speaker 1: But they are passionate, the passionate they understand all that
Speaker 1: they've come to that they've come to that point where
Speaker 1: they feel that you have to be a martyr. And
Speaker 1: if you if you think about young kids, and again,
Speaker 1: the psychosocial approach of identity conflicts a sense of meaning, belonging,
Speaker 1: and identity. Those three things, meaning belonging in identity very
Speaker 1: feature very prominent prominently in young people with young people,
Speaker 1: so you're trying to figure it out. So you're gonna
Speaker 1: want to can you imagine for to be for a
Speaker 1: young kid to suddenly be a hero, to be a martyr,
Speaker 1: so you go from zero to hero. By joining this group,
Speaker 1: you can appear on a video. They'll eulogize you, they'll
Speaker 1: you know, produce the video amazingly. There's this one video
Speaker 1: really good production value. Oh my god, you gotta wait.
Speaker 1: What are these videos? Shocked? You'd be shocked. There's one
Speaker 1: which is um Cho Cho makes more videos. It was
Speaker 1: the Chosen. It was like it was called the Chosen
Speaker 1: of the Few and um and you can see it
Speaker 1: on YouTube. Even a Canadian isis recruiter and no, no,
Speaker 1: it's on it's on YouTube. It's on YouTube now. But
Speaker 1: he calls himself what was his name? He had some
Speaker 1: like Christian, I mean Christian Canadian Western name. He's a
Speaker 1: white kid from Timmans Kyle. And then he gives himself
Speaker 1: the name Abu Muslim Kennedy who so yeah, so exactly
Speaker 1: because Muslim face. Yeah yeah, well it's it's more like
Speaker 1: it's like it's like, um, super Muslim all superhero, you know, Like,
Speaker 1: so Abu Muslim is like Abu means father of so
Speaker 1: now he's got no kids, but he's father of Muslim. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, right, So he goes from he goes from
Speaker 1: a nobody. He's like, he's got criminal record. You know,
Speaker 1: he's probably living a menial life and now suddenly he's
Speaker 1: the chosen of the few. He's you know, Abu Muslim.
Speaker 1: And they did a video of him that like the
Speaker 1: quality of this videos you'd be amazing. It looks like
Speaker 1: but no, no, he didn'tow himself up. He got protein. No, no, no.
Speaker 1: What happens is they they videotape him in battle and
Speaker 1: you know, um coincidentally also get to film his death
Speaker 1: on camera. Throw tip to the jihadis alright listening out there,
Speaker 1: because we all know you'll need to get fucked. Uh.
Speaker 1: When they videotape you running, you know two in enemy territory,
Speaker 1: you're gonna die. Yeah yeah, and so right there and
Speaker 1: they but man, when you have ego, you stupid and
Speaker 1: just because you run. Yeah, and you know they had
Speaker 1: a picture of him he had a rocket papelled grenade. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and he fires it and you know they're
Speaker 1: showing him run and you can see the dust on
Speaker 1: the camera and boom, he fires it. And then it
Speaker 1: goes into slow motion as you know, it drops down
Speaker 1: and he goes into a running pose and it is phenomenal. Okay,
Speaker 1: So a young kid, you know, watching that at home,
Speaker 1: who's got no prospect of any future. This that, and
Speaker 1: the other quessionable who wants an identity or something bigger
Speaker 1: than himself. Of that, all of that in a two
Speaker 1: minute video clips makes go back to ego and narcissism.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the same thing in this country. That's
Speaker 1: why I think that we should like when people like
Speaker 1: mass murderers and stuff. I hate that we publicize them.
Speaker 1: That someone is a serial killer and then becomes kind
Speaker 1: of this celebrity. They're on the cover of Everyone knows
Speaker 1: their name, they write letters to them, they developed fan clubs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get married, jail. I'm like, god, damn it, even
Speaker 1: a murderer man can get married. And it does seem
Speaker 1: like an option for someone You're like, well, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to become famous or known or respected putting putting
Speaker 1: good out into the world, So I can put bat
Speaker 1: out into the world and kind of get the same celebrity.
Speaker 1: Are people and ices having sex? Well? So so so
Speaker 1: here we go, all right, so now we we talked
Speaker 1: about that general thing. Now you get a whole other
Speaker 1: level of deviance with ISIS. So you're worse than Taliban.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, they're like the worst one, right, yeah
Speaker 1: they are, because I can't tell America is making us
Speaker 1: more afraid than we should be. No, no, no, ISIS
Speaker 1: is as bad as I appreciate. The only one that's
Speaker 1: at at par with the ice with ISIS is the
Speaker 1: assad regime. In fact, the Asside regime has employed u
Speaker 1: policy of of rape as a as a or rape
Speaker 1: of not just women children. It's very It's been documented
Speaker 1: for three years. These are are human rights groups that
Speaker 1: have done it. This is not just a thing. And
Speaker 1: they've been doing it longer than Ices been doing it
Speaker 1: so their own people. Yeah, it's as dictatorial regime control,
Speaker 1: dictatorial regime. It's just terrible. But what ISIS has done
Speaker 1: is is taking it to the next level in that
Speaker 1: you remember that video. So here's what they did. They
Speaker 1: went back to the ancient time um construct of captives
Speaker 1: of war. And this this is how I mean, whether
Speaker 1: you're looking at a scripture reference four years ago, or
Speaker 1: you know, UM English or the Romans or whoever, this
Speaker 1: is what men did, right, they would take over a place,
Speaker 1: they would capture the women, rape the women. The right,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's how now. I mean there are different
Speaker 1: degrees to that, right, So whether the Muslims want to
Speaker 1: kind of say, well, you know, there were some options available,
Speaker 1: you could ransom them if they didn't want to have
Speaker 1: relations with you. Because here's the thing. Of course, I
Speaker 1: know people asked today like do you And of course
Speaker 1: I don't believe that any woman would willingly want to
Speaker 1: marry you know, this guy who just killed her husband
Speaker 1: and you know, destroy the village and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I reject yeah, right, I reject any insinuation that, you know,
Speaker 1: they It's possible though, that they understood that as the
Speaker 1: construct in which they lived. They understood that as a
Speaker 1: consequence of their lives because they probably had heard about
Speaker 1: it happening throughout history, right and in their own areas.
Speaker 1: So it was it was almost like this fatalist you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like you kind of like resign
Speaker 1: yourself to your faith, and this happens in that kind
Speaker 1: of course course of environment, this happens in prison systems,
Speaker 1: and think that so so um so so what they did,
Speaker 1: and and that became, you know, deemed obsolete because we've
Speaker 1: moved past that kind of living. We would like to
Speaker 1: think right for the most part um and again again
Speaker 1: and then well then you don't remember keeping keeping my
Speaker 1: universal human rights. All these things are relatively new concepts.
Speaker 1: This is post world or post World War two. You
Speaker 1: had the League of Nations and then the United Nations
Speaker 1: and then yeah, it's very news. So I think it
Speaker 1: will still take the rest of the world to get there.
Speaker 1: But so what ices did It took it to the
Speaker 1: next level. They said, we're going to revive that, We're
Speaker 1: going to revive the taking of captives. And so what
Speaker 1: they did is they bring back that trend. Yeah, yeah, right, uh.
Speaker 1: And so they started to kidnap women ya zd s,
Speaker 1: Kurdish women, people that they considered not Muslim or not
Speaker 1: Muslim enough, which is which is everybody except that were
Speaker 1: they in an area in which the police there was
Speaker 1: no people to say, don't do that, that's illegal, cuffs, jail,
Speaker 1: it's a war zone. It's a war zone. And the problem,
Speaker 1: I mean, it gets really messy. I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 1: I mean I still work closely with with the governments,
Speaker 1: especially on the ices fight and ts fight. It's very absolute.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, the children not so much what they're doing.
Speaker 1: They're actually they're not they're not raping children. But what
Speaker 1: they're doing is, yeah, they're they're takeing they're using them
Speaker 1: as child soldiers. Um. They're using especially some of the
Speaker 1: children of the curs and u z ds that they've captured,
Speaker 1: raped and killed, they've forced into um military you know, duties. Right,
Speaker 1: so child as child soldiers. So so they did do that.
Speaker 1: And now here's the here's the other more aggravating factor
Speaker 1: is they would they're taking some kind of drugs like something.
Speaker 1: It's some kind of amphetamines. Yeah, so god so a
Speaker 1: lot of meth probably, right, so so what and a
Speaker 1: lot of amphetamine products have been found among iss fighters
Speaker 1: where they're getting the cheaters that's right, that's cheaters, that's right.
Speaker 1: So so so they are so so, I mean, and
Speaker 1: that's the tragedy that that we're seeing now, and people
Speaker 1: are trying to kind of raise attention to it and say, look,
Speaker 1: I had no idea there has Now I'm just like
Speaker 1: imagining like everyone in Issus is like to go on
Speaker 1: breaking bad, just like fucking out. If it sounds like
Speaker 1: a children. Well, now you can you can imagine these
Speaker 1: these a lot of them who have come from those
Speaker 1: close cultural environments where where it's it's again you're forcing
Speaker 1: yourself to be almost like, you know, a eunuch in
Speaker 1: a hyper sexualized society. It's no surprise that, you know,
Speaker 1: gay porn is one of the biggest search products in Pakistan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's no surprise when you look at a place like
Speaker 1: Afghanistan where when you cover the women up, suddenly the
Speaker 1: men start going towards the boys. So they have this
Speaker 1: disgusting and I'm gonna have no calm saying they have
Speaker 1: they have this disgusting I don't know how they call
Speaker 1: it a cultural practice, but it's a disgusting practice called
Speaker 1: butcha buzzy but means child, right, you know, and and
Speaker 1: bozzy is like market child market. And what they do
Speaker 1: is they dress the young boys up as a woman
Speaker 1: and make them dance in front of them. Yeah, do
Speaker 1: they jerk off or something they do worse? They it's pedophilia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's called. Yeah, it's called and they have a name
Speaker 1: for it because you know that something is getting done
Speaker 1: a lot when you're like, well, let's just quite a
Speaker 1: term because we're doing because it takes and and here's
Speaker 1: the thing. A lot of army guys who are serving
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, you know, who are trying to kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, okay, make sense of this. They said, they said, well,
Speaker 1: they're like, you know, we're we're we will kill the homosexual.
Speaker 1: And then he's like, yeah, but you're gay by doing
Speaker 1: what you're doing, two boys, No we're not. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: you're also pedophiles for doing what you do. No, no,
Speaker 1: it's not, it's not pedophilia. It was like, um yeah,
Speaker 1: having deliberately seeking out children for sexual pleasure is the
Speaker 1: definition of pedophilia, right. Uh. And they're and they're just
Speaker 1: like they give this quizzical look like they don't understand
Speaker 1: why you think, Like really, so did you talk to
Speaker 1: these people who have done do No? No, not okay, no,
Speaker 1: the military soldiers may counter them, yes, pedophilia and hope,
Speaker 1: but they're in denial of that both. Okay. Yeah. So so,
Speaker 1: um so that's just supposed to show you that you
Speaker 1: have these So when you're when you're coming back to
Speaker 1: isis you have these guys who are not Afghans, are
Speaker 1: actually Arabs who come from those societies who again that
Speaker 1: women are covered up. You can't even talk to her.
Speaker 1: Any kind of talking might be seen as, oh my god,
Speaker 1: you're gonna start sucking right away, and that could possibly
Speaker 1: be true because you have these sexual urges. These are normal,
Speaker 1: natural urges. You're surrounded by women you can't see, and
Speaker 1: when you repress those urges, it will because now you're
Speaker 1: at the biological level, physiological level, it will cause dysfunctional behavior. Yes, violent,
Speaker 1: usually violent behaviors. Something else right now, add meth to that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and now you got a party? Wow? Okay, um, we
Speaker 1: need to wrap soon. This is the most fascinating conversation
Speaker 1: I've ever had. What's the worst thing you've ever seen?
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be sectual like in your I'm
Speaker 1: just here, like, have you seen what I'm desensitized to?
Speaker 1: The attings I've seen, Like, yeah, I've seen, well I'm
Speaker 1: not seen in real life beheading and I have not
Speaker 1: seen it in real life. That's the only I mean,
Speaker 1: only animals. They've been ritually slaughtered. But I mean that's
Speaker 1: kind of and that was kind of a freaky, but
Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, I just even in my extremest
Speaker 1: days and then when I went undercover, I've seen hundreds
Speaker 1: and hundreds of behading videos burgling that not a decapitated
Speaker 1: neck makes because the air is mixing with the blood
Speaker 1: that's gushing out, and it's yeah, it's really sick. And
Speaker 1: then the body starts to twitch. And so the body
Speaker 1: twitches after the head because what's happening is a rapid
Speaker 1: mass of oxygen from the body. So the lack of oxygen,
Speaker 1: you get cramps. You know, you get crampsy, like if
Speaker 1: you're swimming or something like that, because you've eaten all
Speaker 1: the food is digesting. So the blood that has the
Speaker 1: oxygen is spending time digesting the food. So if you're
Speaker 1: if your other muscles are being worked, it's going to
Speaker 1: deprive those muscles of the oxygen. So you get a cramp. Well,
Speaker 1: so the body cramps, and so it was just I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the beheadings is pretty Oh my god, no,
Speaker 1: can I describe it? It's just, oh my god. All right, yeah,
Speaker 1: well he's about to describe something gnarly. Guys, So I
Speaker 1: don't know, Oh my god, it's disturbed me and it happens.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Maybe yeah, it did, Probably wasn't. Probably
Speaker 1: who was a Chinese guy, because you know they consumed
Speaker 1: dog me right, Um, wait, think stereotypes stereotype at all.
Speaker 1: That's not no, no, it's they have a whole learning
Speaker 1: so much. I thought it was real, But then I
Speaker 1: was like, maybe it's just racist. Yeah, I'm like, maybe
Speaker 1: I'm an ignorant American because probably I Oh, no, it's
Speaker 1: very real and I can understand that. I can remove
Speaker 1: my cultural hat for a moment and said, chickens and different.
Speaker 1: I mean Hindus, might you know, um, worship or not worship?
Speaker 1: They don't. It's not worshiped like they consider them because
Speaker 1: think about it. The cow in that environment provides provides meats.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can till the fields with anyway. Guy.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, he was taking dogs out of the kennel,
Speaker 1: small dogs. I know it's bad. I should I even
Speaker 1: say this, sous He would he would bash it over
Speaker 1: the head with a club, knock it out, drop it
Speaker 1: onto a bench, slit its throat. You can hear the
Speaker 1: blood going into the bucket. And there are other dogs
Speaker 1: were in the cage right next to it. And then
Speaker 1: he would come in and he'd take a sip like
Speaker 1: he'd hug it. From the faces, from the bucket, from
Speaker 1: the pail of blood, of dog blood. He had a
Speaker 1: whole gigantic like blood on his face. And he's in
Speaker 1: there's a camera on him, and he knows there's a
Speaker 1: camera on him, and he comes up to it like
Speaker 1: maybe you can google searches like crazy Chinese guy drinking
Speaker 1: dog blood. And this is just like so over the
Speaker 1: top it is. Yeah, this is like just Christopher guests.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you from a guy who's been desensitized watching
Speaker 1: people have their heads right. The worst thing is a
Speaker 1: sorry about puppies. Like that's the most human thing because
Speaker 1: we we we know that people do this. Nobody would
Speaker 1: do that to us. I know what's funny, puppy's probably
Speaker 1: never been mean to you. They have not a puppies.
Speaker 1: Puppies come on, puppies like puppies. Probably I would want
Speaker 1: to eat a puppy just got acuteness. So wait, why
Speaker 1: was this guy making this video? I don't know if
Speaker 1: this why were you watching it? I just popped up
Speaker 1: and popped up on my thing. You know, I was
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, should I should I? I mean,
Speaker 1: this guy searched around YouTube is probably kind of sucked
Speaker 1: up so beautube, Like, what can I hit him with?
Speaker 1: I just can we shot movie today? Depravity that other videos?
Speaker 1: You might be interested. You might like, he's getting slaughtered
Speaker 1: Chinese man, human beheading. You might be interested in puppy
Speaker 1: blood drinker. Yeah, you asked for it in a way.
Speaker 1: Would that is horrible? Horrible? So we drank the blood
Speaker 1: out of the bucket. It was just it's just this
Speaker 1: guy was just over the top when he did it.
Speaker 1: But if you're gonna if you're gonna go hard. But
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, probably, Yeah, a lot
Speaker 1: of this, a lot of this dark humor is really
Speaker 1: it's a coping mechanism for right, But I wanted to
Speaker 1: I like that. I mean, Jesus Christ, if you don't
Speaker 1: have a sense of humor, Yeah, shame my rent in coping, Like,
Speaker 1: wouldn't that be awesome? We get the currency, coping currency.
Speaker 1: That's a good idea. How you doing? Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: you get good relationship? You're single? No, No, I'm so married. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm so married to this to the lady she was
Speaker 1: with you while you were extremes. She was and she is.
Speaker 1: It's almost tell you was extreme. I didn't tell her.
Speaker 1: I thought she would totally leave me. Yeah, she probably wouldn't,
Speaker 1: but you didn't tell her because then you moved. I mean,
Speaker 1: December is going to be our eighteen year anniversary. I
Speaker 1: have five children sixteen, fourteen, twelve, ten and eight boy
Speaker 1: boy girls and boy girl and polish. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: they're probably beautiful. They are They tan perfectly. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: youngest one is like ridiculously cute. And all I gotta
Speaker 1: say to the guys is, um, I have two things,
Speaker 1: a shovel and an alibi. I have a set of skills.
Speaker 1: We shouldn't protect aunt Onna's protected. My dad did that
Speaker 1: to me? Not over protected? Then you know what I
Speaker 1: call college? Should daddy put me in a cage? Make
Speaker 1: them feel like they can have healthy relationship? No, no,
Speaker 1: we have a we have a perfect I think way
Speaker 1: of parenting. Um, it's no no, no shovels and no
Speaker 1: no no, it's you know, I grew up the way
Speaker 1: that I grew up. I am deliberately not doing that.
Speaker 1: Oh that's good. That's that's so they don't I didn't
Speaker 1: send him to my dress. Uh, they don't cover Um,
Speaker 1: the girls if they want to once, you know, once
Speaker 1: in a while, we do this sufi thing, and so
Speaker 1: they themselves want to put it on as a as
Speaker 1: it cost you. And the younger one she loves to
Speaker 1: dress up of course, she's like the younger one more princessy.
Speaker 1: The other one's more like doctor who fan and hell
Speaker 1: yeah she's so yeah. I mean it's it's good life,
Speaker 1: it's good. Things are good. Wow. Yeah, where do you
Speaker 1: have any works that we could find? You have a website?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. Have you written a book? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I have written a book. Okay. I was like, you
Speaker 1: seem like a guy who's written a book. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well it's oh my god, because my some my my.
Speaker 1: Now three of the kids boy boy girl, boy girl.
Speaker 1: So the the three are now in the Army cadets
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I I I, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: influenced them, persuaded them. One wants to kind of leave.
Speaker 1: He's kind of bored with it, and I get it,
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to make him stay. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but what they wanted to do it and they're they're like,
Speaker 1: they're like, what you read, Daddy's going to join ISS.
Speaker 1: You be responsible for the mask. So because I know
Speaker 1: we're wrapping up, um, we have the book is called
Speaker 1: Undercover Jihadi all right, appropriate, Uh you know they say
Speaker 1: hellal in the streets Haram and the sheets. So but
Speaker 1: in the book, I mentioned my losing virginity at fourteen
Speaker 1: in the Army Cadet story. And so here we are
Speaker 1: at home having dinner and the second boy is fourteen.
Speaker 1: He's like, so you last to Virginia in the Army Cadets.
Speaker 1: Oh the book, And you're like, love that you're reading,
Speaker 1: but not my work. No, no, no, you say to that,
Speaker 1: doorship of that? I was like, yeah, it was like yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that's good because and that's good.
Speaker 1: Don't pretend you're someone who doesn't have sex or doesn't
Speaker 1: do anything. Then your kids are going grow up and
Speaker 1: be like you're a liar, and then they're gonna right
Speaker 1: right right. So no, no, we have a perfectly honest, open,
Speaker 1: latent relationship with their home school as well. That's an
Speaker 1: important interesting Yeah, they do a lot of social stuff
Speaker 1: with you. No, my my wife it is. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: all day, she's all day, every order later damn by
Speaker 1: eating around mommy protein, right, it really worked out? Yeah, sure, Jesus,
Speaker 1: it's that was what a nice story that got a
Speaker 1: little oh and then it has a great we got
Speaker 1: we got sex, we got terrorism, beheading. But I think
Speaker 1: you know that we had some good talks on the
Speaker 1: gender and patriotism and patriarch so much. Yeah, well, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Just realized getting get another episode out
Speaker 1: of Guys We Sucked, where we learned how dumb we
Speaker 1: are and how little we know about everything. Just like,
Speaker 1: so now you really know. That's that's when you actually knows.
Speaker 1: When you know you don't know. Now we know. Now
Speaker 1: we learned some stuff. It's good. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for listening to Guys We Fuck, the Anti Slucchi podcast.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you next week. This episode of Guys
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