Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: Hey, Dream listeners, if you like this podcast, you're going
Speaker 2: to love the book. Yeah. I wrote a book. It's
Speaker 2: called Selling the Dream and it's coming out March twelfth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, on Atria. It's about all of your
Speaker 2: favorite characters from MLMs and some that you've never even
Speaker 2: heard of. I hope check it out. Previously on the Dream,
Speaker 2: what is neuro linguistic pro program?
Speaker 1: Well, neural linguistic program means neuro the mind body connection.
Speaker 3: I don't really agree with the advice.
Speaker 4: I feel like.
Speaker 3: It's teaching people to deny their intuition. Okay, what happens
Speaker 3: is we come to you with this information and you say, oh,
Speaker 3: it's something wrong with their mindset, and so I just think,
Speaker 3: for lack of a better word, it's all bullshit.
Speaker 2: Do I have to be doing this all the time?
Speaker 2: So what is the NLP?
Speaker 1: Short?
Speaker 2: Jesus, I just want you to give me.
Speaker 1: The Let me give you a process.
Speaker 2: In retrospect, what I'm about to tell you was super
Speaker 2: dumb of me. But before we started nosing around in
Speaker 2: this world, I seriously thought that coaches had to have
Speaker 2: some sort of expertise in whatever they were coaching people
Speaker 2: in I'm too old to have assumed this, but like
Speaker 2: I thought, relationship coaches should be happily coupled up and
Speaker 2: finance coaches should be set for life. Soccer coaches should
Speaker 2: know how to play soccer. But as with soccer coaches
Speaker 2: who don't know how to play soccer, or music critics
Speaker 2: who can't play an instrument, or therapists who are some
Speaker 2: of the most Kogoa bananas friends I have yet, No,
Speaker 2: you don't really need to know anything. All you need
Speaker 2: to have is gumption and maybe a lack of imposter syndrome.
Speaker 2: Anyone can do this, which I warned Dan was going
Speaker 2: to be a problem for me in finding a coach.
Speaker 2: I want them to be fun and funny. I don't
Speaker 2: want a whiff of their life being fucked up though,
Speaker 2: mm hmm, so, which is something that I don't mind
Speaker 2: in a.
Speaker 4: Therapist, right, weirdly right, Okay, Well that's an interesting thing.
Speaker 5: I mean to me, that's interesting because that you.
Speaker 6: Know, like their lives are fucked up.
Speaker 5: There's no one whose life isn't slightly fucked up.
Speaker 2: I don't want to know it. I don't want to
Speaker 2: even be I want to not be able to tell
Speaker 2: because I want to be like, I want people to
Speaker 2: not be able to tell that my life's fucked up?
Speaker 5: Right, Okay, so I want people.
Speaker 2: To look at me after this and just be like,
Speaker 2: how does she do it? How does she have it all? Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: nothing fundamentally has changed about my life, right, it's just
Speaker 2: my attitude. Dan's right, though, everyone is fucked up and
Speaker 2: hardly coach or coach adjacent person we talked to pass
Speaker 2: this test. Take doctor John James Santangelo, PhD. That PhD,
Speaker 2: even according to him, isn't even really that legit.
Speaker 1: I just wanted the PhD after my name looks good
Speaker 1: on the book.
Speaker 2: Wait, where'd you get that piece?
Speaker 1: It's online university and the only spec they only they're
Speaker 1: specialists inside NLP CBT and also hypnosis. It's very it's which.
Speaker 2: One which which? Which online university?
Speaker 1: It's called man University backy somewhere.
Speaker 2: Manny Mana Mana.
Speaker 1: And that may be wrong, who knows.
Speaker 2: I looked it up and there are two Mana universities.
Speaker 2: One is a Christian college and one was an online
Speaker 2: university That now takes you to a four oh four
Speaker 2: error page. What about Jennifer? She was stalled out for
Speaker 2: years making no money at Arbond when Ray Hogden came
Speaker 2: along and selected her to become a coach. And Ray Higden,
Speaker 2: what are his credentials? Well, according to his own biography,
Speaker 2: he failed at twelve MLMs. Then he joined a coin
Speaker 2: collecting MLM called Numis and worked his way up the
Speaker 2: rink so high, and things went so well that he
Speaker 2: launched an offshoot of the coin collecting company that did
Speaker 2: travel MLM stuff like a travel agency, but in a
Speaker 2: pyramid shape. Here's an ad for that.
Speaker 7: You know, back in two thousand and nine, I was
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Speaker 2: Force sounds to me like raise mostly on expertus sound
Speaker 2: and like an expert nothing. So at a certain point
Speaker 2: I had to acknowledge I was living a fantasy. Coaches
Speaker 2: don't need to have any firsthand experience with the kind
Speaker 2: of success or happiness or self actualization they're selling. And
Speaker 2: who's checking anyway? There's no licensing board or anything which
Speaker 2: begs the question who are coaches really? Who becomes a
Speaker 2: coach who puts themselves out there as someone who knows
Speaker 2: how to do life? And why why would you do that?
Speaker 2: Today we're going to start with an answer based on
Speaker 2: actual research from an actual expert.
Speaker 5: My name is Patrick Shean, and I just completed my
Speaker 5: PhD in sociology and I'm starting a new job at
Speaker 5: Stanford as a post doctoral researcher.
Speaker 6: In what sociology?
Speaker 2: What kind of what do you mean?
Speaker 5: Sociology is an expansive discipline. I'm really interested in sort
Speaker 5: of economic sociology and sort of like the charismatic in
Speaker 5: the economy, some of these elements that are not rational
Speaker 5: about what we buy and sell and what we believe in.
Speaker 5: So I started graduate school to do a PhD in
Speaker 5: sociology around twenty seventeen, and this was a time when
Speaker 5: the news was lit up with automation is going to
Speaker 5: change everyone's jobs, future of work, Everyone's going to need
Speaker 5: to retrain. I was particularly hooked on this story about
Speaker 5: truck drivers are going to get put out of jobs
Speaker 5: and they're going to need to become nurses.
Speaker 2: Welly because there's going to be automated automated trucks.
Speaker 5: I mean this was yeah sixteen, it was going to
Speaker 5: be automated trucks next year.
Speaker 6: You know how these things go.
Speaker 5: And so when I started looking for topics to study,
Speaker 5: I wanted to see what was gonna happen to people
Speaker 5: like retraining when they lose their jobs. So I went
Speaker 5: looking for places that do retraining for unemployed people or
Speaker 5: dislocated workers. And this is in Austin, Texas, and all
Speaker 5: I could find were these places that are mostly called
Speaker 5: job clubs or job search clubs that unemployed people go
Speaker 5: to once a week and there's a speaker that gives
Speaker 5: them some kind of advice on the job search or
Speaker 5: coping with unemployment and all the things that come with that.
Speaker 5: And it's very much kind of group therapy stuff where
Speaker 5: everyone's looking at each other and encouraging each other. And
Speaker 5: most of the places I was is kind of like
Speaker 5: North Austin. We're all like older unemployed professionals, very kind
Speaker 5: of white collar. A lot like IBM and Dell have
Speaker 5: these big places in were they.
Speaker 2: It was it like conference rooms in an industrial park,
Speaker 2: That's what I'm.
Speaker 5: It was more like churches. Oh two out of the
Speaker 5: three big ones I went to were churches. Ranges of
Speaker 5: secular versus how serious. There were prayers at the beginning,
Speaker 5: and some were at just community centers, you know, and
Speaker 5: they were kind of nonprofit groups. And so but you
Speaker 5: go to these things and I expect that people are
Speaker 5: going there and getting retrained, and they're going to get
Speaker 5: and they're going to learn how to code and become
Speaker 5: a coder or something. And all they really got were
Speaker 5: these kind of motivational talks. And so the people that
Speaker 5: come to these things every week are career coaches, and
Speaker 5: every week there's someone giving a talk about how to
Speaker 5: improve yourself, improve your resume, change your mindset. Read there
Speaker 5: you go. At first, I'm just shocked by that because
Speaker 5: it's just self help, you know, for these poor people
Speaker 5: who just lost their jobs and they're worried about their mortgages,
Speaker 5: and they're just like motivational. Like I'm already suspicious about
Speaker 5: self help as an answer to unemployment, you know, structural problems,
Speaker 5: and then you're told to like improve your mindset. But
Speaker 5: then this extra thing where it's like there are everyone's
Speaker 5: an expert and there are no experts, and we're helping
Speaker 5: each other. So I sort of pursued that kind of
Speaker 5: question and trying to the main thing I was trying
Speaker 5: to figure out is like how do people think these
Speaker 5: people are experts? And how does one become an expert
Speaker 5: in career coaching when you're unemployed?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's probably a prerequisite, honestly, Like I
Speaker 2: don't have time to become a career coach because I
Speaker 2: have a job.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you would think, right. The first thing I
Speaker 5: was trying to figure out is like, what are they
Speaker 5: telling them? Is the problem here? Like what are they
Speaker 5: diagnosing as the problem that everyone is because everyone is
Speaker 5: there is not only losing money or you know, doesn't
Speaker 5: have a paycheck, but also is like it's a lot
Speaker 5: of men that had technical jobs for a long time
Speaker 5: and their identity was really tied to their work, and
Speaker 5: so there's having a kind of identity collapse.
Speaker 6: At the same time.
Speaker 5: And so I found there was three different kinds of
Speaker 5: stories that these coaches would tell. One was that you're
Speaker 5: unemployed because the problem here is a technical problem. You
Speaker 5: don't understand how to find a job today. And all
Speaker 5: of this played on their age often, but it was
Speaker 5: like getting a job in this era, Yeah, it's like
Speaker 5: how do you get.
Speaker 6: A job today?
Speaker 5: When I was young, I used to be a yellow
Speaker 5: pad and a pencil. Now you need to know how
Speaker 5: to master LinkedIn networking is more important than ever resume
Speaker 5: and interviewing, blah blah blah. So one of the diagnoses
Speaker 5: is like, I'm going to teach you, and this is
Speaker 5: where they present their expertise. I'm going to teach you
Speaker 5: how to get a job by teaching you how to
Speaker 5: master this kind of technical system of getting it job.
Speaker 5: I'm going to teach you how to network. You get
Speaker 5: to these really kind of weird like role plays of networking.
Speaker 5: I'm going to show you how to up your LinkedIn,
Speaker 5: change your photo, We're going to test different kinds of
Speaker 5: titles and blah blah blah. So one diagnosis like this
Speaker 5: technical problem. Second one is this sort of mindset calling problem. Essentially,
Speaker 5: what they're saying there is that the reason you're unemployed
Speaker 5: is that you have the wrong sort of orientation towards work.
Speaker 5: A couple like two sub things in that one is
Speaker 5: like kind of the mindset problem, which is you can't
Speaker 5: get a job because you have these limiting beliefs that
Speaker 5: are holding you back from seeing the opportunities that are
Speaker 5: in front of you. And you're well aware of that
Speaker 5: kind of thing. But I can give you example limiting beliefs.
Speaker 2: I just immediately think of nexium.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, yeah, and NLP and really weird a lot
Speaker 5: of NLP and a bunch of practices that they would
Speaker 5: lead us in the group of like power poses and
Speaker 5: power poses.
Speaker 6: Power poses are a big one. What to do one
Speaker 6: stand up? And yeah, my favorite.
Speaker 5: My favorite is hands, you know, fists at the hit.
Speaker 6: You can also cross your arms.
Speaker 5: I do that just naturally because you're a but you
Speaker 5: know about those It's like, okay, this this arch her
Speaker 5: from Harvard said that if you do these things and
Speaker 5: raise your confidence and you perform your hands up one
Speaker 5: is like a triumphant.
Speaker 2: V Yes, I would never do that.
Speaker 5: You're supposed to do this thing in the bathroom before
Speaker 5: your interview, okay, like stand in the mirror and cross
Speaker 5: your arms and be kind of badass in order to
Speaker 5: prove your confidence. This is like one of the solutions
Speaker 5: their suggestions to this diagnosis of a mindset problem. Other
Speaker 5: ones that we had was like visualization. You know, the
Speaker 5: one I'm remembering now is like, visualize yourself getting this job.
Speaker 5: Close your eyes, see it in a picture frame in
Speaker 5: front of you.
Speaker 6: You getting that job.
Speaker 5: Go out and grab that picture frame with your two hands,
Speaker 5: raise it above your head, plunge your body into that
Speaker 5: vision so that you can feel all of the good
Speaker 5: stuff about succeeding. Then we scrunched it down into a
Speaker 5: ring and put on our fingers to carry with us
Speaker 5: or whatever. But these are the kind of these are
Speaker 5: the kind of solutions that they offer for a problem
Speaker 5: of limiting beliefs, you know, not believing in yourself unemployed
Speaker 5: people listen to one of those talks, and then they'll
Speaker 5: tell me like, yeah, I think the problem is My
Speaker 5: problem is that I'm an I and FJ and my
Speaker 5: boss was an e NTG or whatever. A lot of
Speaker 5: personality tests. But people will say, like, the reason I
Speaker 5: can't get a job is because I'm a sensing intuitive.
Speaker 5: But they'll tell me that that's the problem. They lost
Speaker 5: their job. That's why they lost their job and why
Speaker 5: they can't get a new one. And then I talked
Speaker 5: to them a while for a while, and then I
Speaker 5: learned that they actually lost their job in a reorganization,
Speaker 5: you know, the jobs were sent to India.
Speaker 6: Or they shut down the division.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And then I say what's what and they're like, well,
Speaker 5: you know, yeah, but.
Speaker 2: It's magical thinking.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but personality test is something that you can focus on.
Speaker 5: Mindset is something that you can do yourself. But then
Speaker 5: the weird thing that happens is after a few weeks,
Speaker 5: I start to notice that the people, let me say
Speaker 5: it through one person. There's a woman I met named
Speaker 5: I think I call her Diane. I change all the
Speaker 5: names for my research sits at the back of the
Speaker 5: thing with me used to work at Dell got laid
Speaker 5: off twice, two or three times, maybe early fifties, and
Speaker 5: I just chat with people. I'm doing ethnographic research right
Speaker 5: and taking notes and observing everything, and I get to
Speaker 5: know her. She's, you know, looking for a job, trying
Speaker 5: to figure it out, and totally normal like everyone else
Speaker 5: they talk to. And then I go back the next
Speaker 5: week and she looks a little bit more dressed up
Speaker 5: and she's wearing a blazer, and instead of sitting down
Speaker 5: next to me, she walks to the front of the
Speaker 5: room and she's this week's guest speaker, and she introduces
Speaker 5: herself as a life coach and expert motivational guru.
Speaker 2: And one week after you were sitting in the back.
Speaker 5: I mean I had got to know her over three
Speaker 5: weeks maybe, and she'd never mentioned this, you know, not
Speaker 5: too deep. But and then all of a sudden, she's
Speaker 5: at the front the room. It's like she put on
Speaker 5: a blazer and she they have a parking spot for
Speaker 5: like this week's guest speaker. She parks there, and all
Speaker 5: of a sudden, she's an expert, you know, in the room,
Speaker 5: even though I know she's looking for a job, but
Speaker 5: she's helping other people, and she gives a talk that's
Speaker 5: called like how to improve yourself to get your dream
Speaker 5: job or something like that. And at that moment, I
Speaker 5: was like, what is going on here? You know, I
Speaker 5: already could see the group therapy stuff going on, but
Speaker 5: here is like very clearly, and not only does she
Speaker 5: go to the front of the room, everyone's taking notes,
Speaker 5: you know, people take notes, and she now has status.
Speaker 5: The pitch that you're going to come to know and
Speaker 5: that you're gonna take up if you want to coach
Speaker 5: is kind of like this hero's journey kind of conversion narrative,
Speaker 5: which maybe I'll say, which is just what all these
Speaker 5: coaches say at the front of the room, which I'm
Speaker 5: sure you're familiar with, which is I worked at Dell
Speaker 5: for fifteen years, and they can relate to everyone in
Speaker 5: the room and they're doing eye contact and tapping people
Speaker 5: and saying, I see you Jim in the back. We
Speaker 5: used to work on both. I worked at Dell for
Speaker 5: fifteen years and then out of the blue, I was
Speaker 5: laid off. I didn't see it coming. I was maybe
Speaker 5: in a stupor of you know, corporate drone work, and
Speaker 5: I was immediately crushed and I was in the dark,
Speaker 5: and I was depressed, and everything was falling apart.
Speaker 6: My wife was going to leave me.
Speaker 5: And then I had this realization that I shouldn't give
Speaker 5: you know, control of my income to one person. I
Speaker 5: should strike out on my own. Or I realized that
Speaker 5: I never really wanted to be a software engineer. I
Speaker 5: wanted to be a fashion designer. I wanted to be
Speaker 5: an artist. And they read like The Artist's Way or
Speaker 5: something like that. There's a moment where they have this
Speaker 5: sort of moment of conversion and epiphany that they've been
Speaker 5: doing it all wrong. And then they change their attitude.
Speaker 5: They realize that this layoff is not a loss, but
Speaker 5: it's actually an opportunity that's like a key crucial thing.
Speaker 5: It's like you change your mindset about like this is
Speaker 5: not the end of your career, this is the beginning
Speaker 5: of something new. And then through that they trek through
Speaker 5: the dark, they learn things about themselves. They realize what
Speaker 5: their true passion is. Once they have the courage and
Speaker 5: right mindset to throw themselves at their true passion.
Speaker 6: They have made it all click.
Speaker 5: And then the thing is, their true passion always happens
Speaker 5: to be coaching other people. To find their true passion.
Speaker 5: That's like the really weird thing these professionals who tie
Speaker 5: their identity so closely to their work. It's a very
Speaker 5: American thing. When you lose that, it is really really hard.
Speaker 5: And I want to look at that and say it
Speaker 5: was just a paycheck, dude, like you'll get another job.
Speaker 6: It It'll be fine.
Speaker 5: People take it really really hard and being able to
Speaker 5: turn around and pick up a new professional identity. Stop
Speaker 5: introducing yourself as I'm out of work and start saying
Speaker 5: I'm an entrepreneur. I'm CEO of Career Navigation two thousand
Speaker 5: and five or whatever.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: That is huge and they change it on their LinkedIn
Speaker 5: and they say, I'm actually I'm not looking for work
Speaker 5: with you know, the Searching for Work Climate panel. I'm
Speaker 5: CEO of Transitions Incorporated. That is a reparation of their
Speaker 5: like identity that is really important to them, even more
Speaker 5: than the money. Because I interviewed a ton of these people,
Speaker 5: most of them don't hardly make anything.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask, is there what does that
Speaker 2: look like?
Speaker 5: My impression of the coaching world, like money wise, is
Speaker 5: that it's very highly concentrated, so there's very few people
Speaker 5: that make a lot of money and it sort of compounds,
Speaker 5: and these are like the Tony Robbins at the peak
Speaker 5: of it. And there's a lot of people faking it
Speaker 5: until they never make it. Okay, okay, until they can
Speaker 5: get their own job, because oftentimes they're pursuing this coaching
Speaker 5: thing while also looking for a job.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 5: So so Diana, well just go back to her is.
Speaker 5: I followed her for about three months and while she
Speaker 5: was doing this trying to get this coaching stuff's going
Speaker 5: and trying to find a job, and she wasn't able
Speaker 5: to land another job. And I had a last interview
Speaker 5: with her at a diner where I was asking her
Speaker 5: how it was going, and then she's you know, she's
Speaker 5: says coaching's going great and doesn't really have any clients,
Speaker 5: but you know, she's convincing herself that the coaching is
Speaker 5: going great. And at the end of the conversation she
Speaker 5: mentioned that she's been watching YouTube videos of how people
Speaker 5: live out of their cars and kind of make it work.
Speaker 2: What.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So this is like this quiet slowly going into
Speaker 5: the night of like precarty economic precarity from like a
Speaker 5: Dell employee, which is a good deal in Austin, Texas
Speaker 5: down to like, maybe I need to live out of
Speaker 5: my van because my mortgage payments are really I'm running
Speaker 5: out of savings.
Speaker 2: Here, but spending that as a positive. No one can
Speaker 2: see you nodding on them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's this weird kind of in interviewing people,
Speaker 5: there's this weird kind of like self gaslighting thing going on.
Speaker 5: It feels like where all you can see the only
Speaker 5: problems that you can see are within you. The larger
Speaker 5: thing that coaches are doing is they're trying to tell
Speaker 5: you that your problems are not about power struggles or
Speaker 5: not about politics.
Speaker 6: They're about personality essentially.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: These are things you can do that sort of validate
Speaker 5: that diagnosis, and they're endless things you can turn up,
Speaker 5: turn up to explain why your personality is the problem
Speaker 5: in your career. And so they'll take you through endless
Speaker 5: of the endless things like this until you feel like
Speaker 5: you've found the golden nugget that explains why you can't
Speaker 5: get a job.
Speaker 2: Does it feel good? Did you notice? Does it feel
Speaker 2: good for people to be told that their personality needs
Speaker 2: to change?
Speaker 5: That's an interesting one because I found that people were
Speaker 5: bizarrely open to these kind of critiques in a kind
Speaker 5: of vulnerable spot, and particularly in these kind of group
Speaker 5: therapeutic vibe. Maybe it's the people that select into these
Speaker 5: places that are more open to that. Even tough guy
Speaker 5: IBM dudes or you know, they think of themselves as engineers, yeah,
Speaker 5: would break down into some of these personality things and
Speaker 5: really say, yeah, you know, I didn't realize I'm so intuitive.
Speaker 5: And these coaches also like step into and leverage this
Speaker 5: larger sort of declining trust in institutions and sort of
Speaker 5: expert authority, expert systems. More generally, we see it in health,
Speaker 5: we see it in science stuff of all kinds. We
Speaker 5: can go into it if you want, but there's this
Speaker 5: general sense, and there's a bunch of sociological reasons behind it,
Speaker 5: that the experts are out of touch. They are not
Speaker 5: taking care of us anymore. We're in charge of our
Speaker 5: own careers, our own health, our own marriage is all individuated.
Speaker 5: And coaches come in and they go and critique those
Speaker 5: official experts that are far away in those organizations with acronyms.
Speaker 5: They'll say things like that and say that I'm I'm
Speaker 5: like you, and let me let me get this this
Speaker 5: sociology thing that I like Max Weber, famous sociologists, had
Speaker 5: this typology of experts and their authority. And two of
Speaker 5: the things he positioned were he used the examples of
Speaker 5: the divine religious authorities, the priests and the prophets. The
Speaker 5: priests are the institutional, credentialed experts in salvation goods. And
Speaker 5: the reason people believe in the priests is because they
Speaker 5: wear the robe and they have that big church behind them.
Speaker 5: But the priests, particularly in uncertain times, are in danger
Speaker 5: of losing their grasp over the laity by looking to
Speaker 5: out of touch. And at these times, these prophets can
Speaker 5: come up from the laity. They know the people very well,
Speaker 5: they know what they're thinking, what they're feeling, how uncertain
Speaker 5: they are, and what they need at that time, and
Speaker 5: they stand on a little soap box, not at the
Speaker 5: front of the pew, and they say, this is what
Speaker 5: you need.
Speaker 6: You know, the end is nigh. I'll take you.
Speaker 2: The beginning of life of Brian.
Speaker 6: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 5: But there's always this tension between like types of experts
Speaker 5: in how they gained credibility and legitimacy.
Speaker 6: And one way is credentials.
Speaker 5: And one way is I know you so well, I
Speaker 5: am you and I have experienced exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 5: And which part of the way you get credibility as
Speaker 5: a prophet is you critique the priest and you say
Speaker 5: they don't haven't listened to you, they haven't been there
Speaker 5: for you. Things are crazy, the things they've been teaching
Speaker 5: don't work. And so the same thing I think happens
Speaker 5: with career coaches. But all these other coaches, I mean,
Speaker 5: health coaches will say Big Pharma doesn't care about you.
Speaker 5: They just want to pump you full of blah blah blah.
Speaker 5: Finance coaches will say financial systems rigged against you, it's
Speaker 5: a rat race. Career coaches will say the old forty
Speaker 5: year career.
Speaker 6: Is a sham.
Speaker 5: And I have a different way, and I've been there
Speaker 5: and I've failed with you. I used to be in
Speaker 5: the red, I used to not know who I was.
Speaker 5: I failed, and then I learned something and then I escaped.
Speaker 5: And that has something to it. There's a way that
Speaker 5: that critiquing the official experts brings more credibility to this person.
Speaker 2: Turns out that been there, done that quality was absolutely
Speaker 2: what I needed from a coach. I didn't need perfection.
Speaker 2: I didn't need someone so unrelatable and so put together
Speaker 2: that i'd kind of hate her. I did, after a
Speaker 2: long search, actually find a coach, and my coach Jesse.
Speaker 2: She's a regular person with a difficult life, just like
Speaker 2: you and me. The thing that makes her special is
Speaker 2: that she uses those difficulties that she's still going through
Speaker 2: as an inspiration for helping others. Like she doesn't pretend
Speaker 2: it's in her past. That's less cheesy to me. Coming up,
Speaker 2: we're going to get to know my coach Jesse, who
Speaker 2: I think is more qualified for the difficult task of
Speaker 2: coaching me. Ladies and gentlemen, My coach Jesse, like I say,
Speaker 2: I like her because she's a real person and she
Speaker 2: doesn't hide any of it.
Speaker 9: I'll tell you a little bit about I want to
Speaker 9: hear all about you about me.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 9: So, I will be fifty years old this year. I
Speaker 9: have three children that I gave birth to and one
Speaker 9: adopted child, my oldest child. And that's not the first
Speaker 9: child that I adopt and grows out and leaves, but
Speaker 9: this one stayed and I love her. If he says,
Speaker 9: I have two girls, two boys, anyway, I am a
Speaker 9: very high functioning, depressed woman. Me too, very high functioning
Speaker 9: and the fact that and very codependent.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 9: It's like my kids need me, my husband needs me,
Speaker 9: people need me. And the minute that I don't feel
Speaker 9: that way, I have my sad days.
Speaker 10: So I'm an immigrant.
Speaker 9: I was born and raised in Mexico City, but my
Speaker 9: parents are from all of you know, Central America.
Speaker 2: Her parents came to the US illegally when Jesse was
Speaker 2: just eight years old and left her behind in Mexico
Speaker 2: with an aunt for years, and eventually she applied to
Speaker 2: college in Los Angele, near her parents, but then she
Speaker 2: lost her visa.
Speaker 10: You know, a lot of things happened.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 10: I had to lie a lot to come to United States,
Speaker 10: fake paperwork to get here because my parents came to
Speaker 10: United States illegally and they immigrated me with that amnesty
Speaker 10: you know paperwork back then, I mean too much to
Speaker 10: go into, but they lied about my age. I had
Speaker 10: fake documents just to come to the United States. But
Speaker 10: in Mexico a lot of things could be just paid for,
Speaker 10: not really legal. You know, someone's just a side eye
Speaker 10: to get me out here. Anyway, I stayed here illegally
Speaker 10: and the rest is history.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, When I described Jesse to people, I always start
Speaker 2: with how hot she is, Like a total jerk. I
Speaker 2: didn't realize it when we met up to start this
Speaker 2: coaching thing, but I'd actually seen her in my neighborhood before,
Speaker 2: like at the grocery store and stuff. You guys, you guys,
Speaker 2: she looks like a fly girl. And if you aren't
Speaker 2: old enough to know that is, get with it, nerds.
Speaker 2: When she was still at college, she started doing really
Speaker 2: cheap fitness classes in the park near school, just walking
Speaker 2: up to ladies who look like they could use a
Speaker 2: little help. That went great, and she began incorporating some
Speaker 2: of her spiritual beliefs, which I don't totally understand, but
Speaker 2: she does, like full moon fasting and stuff. And she
Speaker 2: puts meal plans together for people and life plans. And
Speaker 2: she says that a big part of why she loves
Speaker 2: her job and why she's good at it is because
Speaker 2: she gets to live vicariously through the clients she works with.
Speaker 2: She gets to encourage them to do things she can't.
Speaker 10: I've never been able to travel.
Speaker 2: I mean, I hear about a tear up. I have
Speaker 2: a few minutes.
Speaker 4: I am going to tear up because some people are
Speaker 4: just so blessed. I have never been able to take
Speaker 4: a vacation outside of this country with my children. My
Speaker 4: children cannot travel unless unless they go with a different family.
Speaker 4: I can't show my kids. I can't go to Old Salvador.
Speaker 4: I can't go to Mexico, can't show my kids my history.
Speaker 8: Where I come from, where I used to play. And
Speaker 8: that's why I sacrifice everything so I can live in
Speaker 8: a neighborhood where my children grew up and go to
Speaker 8: school because it's so important for them. And if I
Speaker 8: can just give them that for right now and know that,
Speaker 8: and that's the only thing that hurts me, Like believe me,
Speaker 8: I didn't give a shit about what my parents did
Speaker 8: to me, because I'm overcoming that and every day in
Speaker 8: a different way, it's going to affect me, or every year,
Speaker 8: whatever it is, it's going to affect me. But what's
Speaker 8: affected me more is the fact that they didn't help me.
Speaker 8: They're American citizens, for God's sake, they travel everywhere. They
Speaker 8: didn't help me, And that is one thing that I
Speaker 8: can't forget. I'll forgive them poor things like who knows
Speaker 8: where they were going to maybe they didn't have money
Speaker 8: and whatnot.
Speaker 4: But I can't forget that, and I feel trapped in
Speaker 4: the United States. That's not my country, but this is
Speaker 4: all I know. I pay higher Texas and everyone my
Speaker 4: APR and everything is huge if I can't even get finance.
Speaker 4: But I live in a pretty badass apartment. You know,
Speaker 4: I have two teslas. I mean, you know, I'm extremely blessed.
Speaker 4: I'm extremely blessed.
Speaker 2: Jesse and I have been meeting twice a week now
Speaker 2: for months. We work out together, or actually she just
Speaker 2: watches me work out and yells at me for an
Speaker 2: hour at seven o'clock in the morning twice a week,
Speaker 2: which I do not like at all, But I'm doing
Speaker 2: it because I'm trying to follow through for both this
Speaker 2: fucking podcast, but also because I was so miserable when
Speaker 2: I met her and she promised this would help. She
Speaker 2: begs me not to eat fast food, which echoes in
Speaker 2: my head head when I'm in my car and I'm hungry.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it actually stops me from going to Taco Bell.
Speaker 2: Jesse encouraged me to have surgery on a big uterine
Speaker 2: fibroid I've been ignoring on the advice of my doctor.
Speaker 2: My doctor literally said just ignore it, and dear listener,
Speaker 2: I had the surgery in April, and I have only
Speaker 2: bled once since then. Mildly turns out I may have
Speaker 2: been a menopause for way longer than I thought, and
Speaker 2: the fibroid might have been doing all the bleeding. Anyway,
Speaker 2: that's a huge deal. I'm on hormone replacement therapy now.
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't have figured it out if Jesse hadn't
Speaker 2: sort of bullied me into getting it taken care of,
Speaker 2: even though her reasons were a little whacky.
Speaker 10: This fibroid which we're going to magically remove, Like, we're
Speaker 10: going to remove it, and we're going to figure it
Speaker 10: and we're going to because what so right now, you're
Speaker 10: just staying alive. You're just staying you know, You're just
Speaker 10: like I'm doing the best that I can with what
Speaker 10: I have. Let's just take that element that shouldn't be
Speaker 10: in you. Let's just remove it because it's sucking the
Speaker 10: life at you.
Speaker 2: Let's remove that. And once we remove that.
Speaker 10: Let's give your body all that it's lost emotionally physically.
Speaker 10: We want to keep you at your highest level of
Speaker 10: consciousness and at your most optimized health with this inside you.
Speaker 2: I want to show you a picture of it. Let
Speaker 2: me see if I can find not to be crazy looking.
Speaker 4: It's that.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, here's the thing. I just like her.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have liked her if she were quote unquote perfect,
Speaker 2: and we've gotten really close. I consider her a friend,
Speaker 2: an eighty five dollars an hour friend. But still, I
Speaker 2: mean is that that's not more expensive than my actual friends,
Speaker 2: because like I buy dinner, you know.
Speaker 8: Uh.
Speaker 2: Anyway, she doesn't make me do the fasting thing or ayahuasca,
Speaker 2: but she does make me slow down and think about
Speaker 2: my choices, move my body, respect my body and my mind.
Speaker 2: And I'm super privileged to have in my life. I
Speaker 2: totally recognize that from Jesse. I welcome all the ooey
Speaker 2: guey mindset talk, and it's actually doing something. So take
Speaker 2: that science coming up on the dream.
Speaker 5: So I'm Jesse Lee Ward.
Speaker 4: Some people know me as Bossley or the People's mentor,
Speaker 4: you know. But at any rate, so I do a
Speaker 4: lot of things, sure, but I am the number one
Speaker 4: network marketer in the world.
Speaker 2: I also have an education. The Dream is written, hosted,
Speaker 2: and executive produced by me Jane Marie. Our producer is
Speaker 2: Mike Richter, with help from Nancy Golumbiski and Joy Sandford.
Speaker 2: Our editor is Peter Clowney. The Dream is a co
Speaker 2: production of Little Everywhere in Pushkin Industries. If you love
Speaker 2: this show, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus, offering bonus content,
Speaker 2: exclusive binge opportunities, and ad free listening across our network
Speaker 2: for just six ninety nine a month. Look for the
Speaker 2: Pushkin Plus channel on Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm,
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