Speaker 1: Car to the end zone and Chops preaching for is
Speaker 1: the adavanserin vous touchdown as he at all Lawrence fires
Speaker 1: that's caught on the run, Christian Kirk inside the twenty
Speaker 1: egos and Christian Kirk.
Speaker 2: Tached the ball all the.
Speaker 1: Way to about the one yard line, car to the
Speaker 1: enz off the.
Speaker 3: Fingertips of Moreau but not holding it.
Speaker 4: Oh Foster, Moreau dropped what could have been the game
Speaker 4: tying touchdown, or who knows, maybe the Saints would have
Speaker 4: gone for two. They threw a fade on fourth down
Speaker 4: in the red zone that didn't work. Either the Jaguars
Speaker 4: escape thirty one to twenty four or in a game
Speaker 4: that was, you know, not as entertaining as that score
Speaker 4: would say, but more entertaining than we thought it was
Speaker 4: gonna be about halfway through, when it looked like the.
Speaker 3: Jaguars were gonna run away with this.
Speaker 4: I'm Greg Rosenthal wrapping up T and F with Charles
Speaker 4: McDonald from Yahoo.
Speaker 3: He helped us out a year ago.
Speaker 4: Charles, he's the host of the Exemptless podcast doing good
Speaker 4: stuff over at Yahoo Sports.
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining, Charles, Glad we got a good one
Speaker 3: for you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, I was a little worried when as this
Speaker 5: game was going on in the first half. But luckily
Speaker 5: the Jaguars kind of, you know, did what they've done
Speaker 5: all year and mess around in the second half.
Speaker 6: And let the other team get back into it.
Speaker 5: But they were blessed by the grace of God really
Speaker 5: to have Foster Morrow drop that touchdown at the end
Speaker 5: of the game and give them the win. But man,
Speaker 5: that was a really, really sloppy game. Like, like you said,
Speaker 5: the final score does not it was not indicator of
Speaker 5: how competitive or close.
Speaker 6: That actually was.
Speaker 4: Right, there's so much and I do think this tends
Speaker 4: to happen on T and F games. I used to
Speaker 4: think it was just something people complained about on Thursday
Speaker 4: nights because like half of these early, you know, slate
Speaker 4: games on Sundays, they're just they're ugly too. But now
Speaker 4: I really do think there is something to it, not
Speaker 4: having that time to get ready and to recover your
Speaker 4: body and everything that goes along with it.
Speaker 3: So this was an ugly game, but it ended up
Speaker 3: being entertaining.
Speaker 4: And I'm trying to check myself because you know, I
Speaker 4: went to school in New Orleans. I followed the Saints
Speaker 4: team closely, and they feel like the main characters to
Speaker 4: me in this game, the ups and the downs, and
Speaker 4: they're the home team. And yet I will start with
Speaker 4: the Jaguars here because they are five and two and
Speaker 4: they've managed to get through a tricky part of this
Speaker 4: schedule where they were in London for two games. They
Speaker 4: come back, they have a division game and then a
Speaker 4: short week on the road in New Orleans.
Speaker 3: They get to five and two, and you said it, Charles.
Speaker 4: Every week they come out and their opening script is godlike,
Speaker 4: I mean, Press Taylor who's calling plays for them now,
Speaker 4: and Doug Peterson helps put together the plan, and Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 4: They come out every week, the first couple of drives
Speaker 4: are awesome. It happened again tonight. They put a touchdown
Speaker 4: up early, they get another touchdown early second quarter, it's
Speaker 4: fourteen to three, and then it just gets stagnant the
Speaker 4: rest of the game. And I can't really put it
Speaker 4: on Trevor Lawrence who's playing out there with an injured knee,
Speaker 4: although he looked good running the ball, Like, what is
Speaker 4: it that you're seeing with this offense this year?
Speaker 3: And then certainly in this game where.
Speaker 4: It's like they seem to start off well and then
Speaker 4: they can't quite hit the levels that they were hitting
Speaker 4: at the end of last year.
Speaker 5: Well, I think one thing that was big for them
Speaker 5: in this game, at least was the absence of Zay
Speaker 5: Jones almost send the same flowers wrong as they But
Speaker 5: they kind of found themselves in a situation today where
Speaker 5: Jamal Agnew was taking real deal wide receiver reps for
Speaker 5: them when he's more of a gadget return guy.
Speaker 6: You know, I feel like in the best use.
Speaker 5: Of Jamal agne for an NFL offense, you're probably looking
Speaker 5: at a guy who's taking screens, maybe.
Speaker 6: A reverse or a jet sweep every once in a while.
Speaker 5: But where they got into trouble was, you know, having
Speaker 5: him run routes that you would expect Calvin Ridley making
Speaker 5: or Zay Jones be making, a Christian Kirk be making,
Speaker 5: and for some reason, he kind of kept getting funneled
Speaker 5: the ball, like he had six targets in the first
Speaker 5: half alone, and they tried to get him the ball
Speaker 5: in another reverse that didn't really work out in their favor.
Speaker 5: So I think they're just kind of stuck when the
Speaker 5: Ridley to Lawrence connection isn't working right.
Speaker 3: It wasn't working like it wasn't working today at all.
Speaker 4: Anew got six targets, Calvin Rerialby had four. I don't
Speaker 4: think he had any in the first half. He only
Speaker 4: had one catch five yard. It's been a very strange
Speaker 4: Ridley season where it's either he's the game changer or
Speaker 4: he's kind of taken away from the offense. That's what
Speaker 4: I felt like tonight on a big call that they
Speaker 4: dial you're in a big drive when it was tied,
Speaker 4: I believe, or they're trying to put the game away.
Speaker 4: They go three straight plays to Ridley, none of them work.
Speaker 4: They end up getting the ball back and getting the
Speaker 4: go ahead touchdown. But it's been uneven throwing it to Ridley.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think when you look at the whole offense, it's
Speaker 5: really they're kind of incomplete when you look at the
Speaker 5: sum of their talent. I think having Trevor Lawrence it
Speaker 5: is a huge blessing for the Jaguars. We even saw
Speaker 5: that tonight, coming off of a knee injury, he still
Speaker 5: picked up a handful of clutch first downs on his
Speaker 5: own when things weren't open downfield. So he's kind of
Speaker 5: gotten to a place in his career I think where
Speaker 5: he can elevate the talent around him. And luckily they
Speaker 5: play you know, the NFC South and the AFC South
Speaker 5: this year, so that should be a good amount of
Speaker 5: wins for them. But I think when you look at
Speaker 5: where they're trying to be, which is at the top
Speaker 5: of the AFC, they're not quite there yet like with
Speaker 5: the Bills or the Dolphins of the Chiefs, but they're coming,
Speaker 5: you know, I think they're another off season the way.
Speaker 4: But they're also stacking wins as they go. And so
Speaker 4: one of the things I've tried to learn over the
Speaker 4: years is, like man, October, these teams they're not really
Speaker 4: who they're going to be when it matters. They'll fool
Speaker 4: you one way or another. And the key is do
Speaker 4: you have the pieces that are there? Are you kind
Speaker 4: of stacking wins and you're in a good position along
Speaker 4: the way, And they've done it.
Speaker 3: They start out one and two, they're up to five
Speaker 3: and two. No one in the AFC has more wins
Speaker 3: than they do.
Speaker 4: As we go to sleep tonight, they got Pittsburgh next
Speaker 4: week and then they have a bye week, so a
Speaker 4: nice little stretch here where they have a lot of
Speaker 4: off days, and as you mentioned, the schedule is not
Speaker 4: bad at all down the stretch, so they're in good
Speaker 4: position and we can get to their defense later. But
Speaker 4: there's some things about their defense I like, and ultimately
Speaker 4: like they're improving enough on offense, and Lawrence looks good
Speaker 4: this year that I'm not too worried.
Speaker 3: But I gotta get to the Saints, because the Saints
Speaker 3: this whole game.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, let's work backwards actually at the end, because
Speaker 4: the Saints offense came alive in the fourth quarter, the
Speaker 4: Alvin Kamara offense, which is like what we can call
Speaker 4: the Saints. He had twenty nine touches total one hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty three yards from scrimmage. Total sixty two are
Speaker 4: on the ground on seventeen carries, twelve catches.
Speaker 3: For ninety one.
Speaker 4: I mean everything was his check down, checkdown, everything's going
Speaker 4: to Camara. He's not really making plays on the second level,
Speaker 4: but he's good at making that first guy missed. But
Speaker 4: it was a very frustrating night for Derek Carr's a
Speaker 4: frustrating night for Saints fans who are booing the hell
Speaker 4: out of him early. He's yelling at half of his
Speaker 4: teammates during the game. Olave for stopping short unner route
Speaker 4: Camara for changing his route up ones, he's checking the
Speaker 4: ball down before even seeming to go through his reads.
Speaker 3: And then you look up at the end.
Speaker 4: Of the game and here they are, like making a
Speaker 4: fourth quarter comeback, a foster drop away from tying this
Speaker 4: thing at like thirty one if they go for the
Speaker 4: extra point. And I know Dennis Allen, he's gutless, he
Speaker 4: would have definitely gone for the extra point. Like, what
Speaker 4: what do you make of this Saint's team after spending
Speaker 4: your night with him?
Speaker 3: Well that was that was an open ended question.
Speaker 5: But yes, the petty Falcons fan in me, yes, a
Speaker 5: nice kick out of that, to be honest with you,
Speaker 5: because they look terrible for the vast majority of the game,
Speaker 5: right and and honestly, for how decimated their offensive line was,
Speaker 5: I thought the protection maybe could have been a little
Speaker 5: bit worse. Like there were times when Josh Allen and
Speaker 5: Andre's Pete you know, had their quote unquote battles where
Speaker 5: Josh Allen run straight past some more they had like
Speaker 5: protection mix mixes ups in the middle where you know,
Speaker 5: bad guys coming running running straight through the middle of
Speaker 5: the line of scrimmage. But it's just it's just so constipated,
Speaker 5: like they don't really have anything to get that. It's
Speaker 5: the best way that I can described it, right because
Speaker 5: Derek Carr are the most explosive playmaker they have Chris Alave.
Speaker 5: Derek Carr has no rapport with him right now. And
Speaker 5: you know Alave dropped the pass today too as well.
Speaker 5: So you look at that the decline of Michael Thomas
Speaker 5: to where he's at right now, it kind of turns
Speaker 5: into an offense where all you have is Alvin Kamara
Speaker 5: and trying to spam the ball to him. So is
Speaker 5: Alvin Kamara gonna catch one hundred passes this year? I
Speaker 5: don't really think that that's a great style of offense
Speaker 5: for them. But then they come back and you have
Speaker 5: when you got to have it. They run down the
Speaker 5: field fifty three yards, three players score touchdown. I'm like,
Speaker 5: where is that? Where has that been all game? Because
Speaker 5: it's I don't I don't think these players are as
Speaker 5: bad as maybe their production has been, but it was
Speaker 5: just a mess tonight.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 4: I think if you put Kamara or even Michael Thomas
Speaker 4: and a more functional offense, they would look better. Kamara, Yeah,
Speaker 4: he has twenty three catches going into this game. So
Speaker 4: he now has thirty five on the season in four games.
Speaker 6: That's crazy.
Speaker 4: That's if he was playing seventeen games. That's like a
Speaker 4: pace for one fifty. And he's not the same dude
Speaker 4: he used to be in terms of making people miss
Speaker 4: at the second level. And so some of those I've
Speaker 4: said it on this show, some of those plays that
Speaker 4: used to be like twenty one yards are like eight.
Speaker 3: Now or ten. But they wore the Jags down. I
Speaker 3: think part of that.
Speaker 4: A big part of that was just it's a short
Speaker 4: week and they ended up running eighty seven plays. The
Speaker 4: Jags could not stay on the field in the second half.
Speaker 4: They decided not to go for it on a fourth down.
Speaker 4: The Saints had a really long drive that then didn't score,
Speaker 4: and then they had a pick six, and then they
Speaker 4: had another long drive, so they just had the ball forever.
Speaker 4: And I think that's part of the reason why you
Speaker 4: saw the Saints look so good at the end of
Speaker 4: the game was the Jaguars defense was just worn out.
Speaker 3: But you're right on a lave because there's frustration there.
Speaker 4: They threw the ball to him fifteen times tonight for
Speaker 4: fifty seven yards, So that that's under four yards per
Speaker 4: attempt when you're targeting allotving nothing over fourteen yards.
Speaker 3: There was frustration, there's drops.
Speaker 4: And then especially early in the game, there was just
Speaker 4: straight up misses by Derek Carr. So he's combining to me,
Speaker 4: like a guy who plays it very safe, kind of
Speaker 4: checking down before he even looks down the field.
Speaker 3: That's why I love Thursday nights.
Speaker 4: You can watch the prime vision and kind of see
Speaker 4: the field and he's just hitting that Camara, you know,
Speaker 4: throwing the flat before he even takes any time. But
Speaker 4: when he is trying to go deeper down the field,
Speaker 4: it just seems like things are off.
Speaker 3: So it's a lot of the same just kind of
Speaker 3: drop back.
Speaker 4: And throw it, not a lot of creativity, Like Saints
Speaker 4: fans are done with Pete Carmichael and they're wondering if
Speaker 4: Derek Carr is better than Andy Dalton was a year ago.
Speaker 5: Yeah, one of the more interesting parts of the game
Speaker 5: to me was, you know, you said that had eighty
Speaker 5: seven plays, Like they had to use all of those
Speaker 5: plays to get you know, down the field because as
Speaker 5: bad as they were on third down, Because there were
Speaker 5: so many plays where Derek Carr you'll be third and eight,
Speaker 5: he's throwing shortest sticks.
Speaker 6: Third and six, he's throwing shortest sticks.
Speaker 5: And then they end up four and six on fourth
Speaker 5: down because I think in the second half they're like, well,
Speaker 5: screw it, we got to start going for it. Even
Speaker 5: if Derek's not going to, you know, give us a
Speaker 5: chance down the field. We still have forty one in
Speaker 5: the backfield and we can spam that.
Speaker 6: So it just.
Speaker 3: Eighteen by the way down until they got that third one.
Speaker 4: That was the most third down attempts without a third
Speaker 4: conversion in four years.
Speaker 3: So it's pretty rare that a team pretty that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it just the best way I can put it
Speaker 5: is offense looked very, very hard for the Saints tonight.
Speaker 5: There's just no easy buttons, there's no outlets, And yeah,
Speaker 5: hopefully that can improve for them as the offensive line
Speaker 5: gets healthy, and maybe Trevor Penny can improve and start
Speaker 5: to look like the first round pick that they drafted
Speaker 5: him to be. But they just kind of seem to
Speaker 5: be in a bit of a talent deficit right now.
Speaker 6: It's it's top heavy. You still have your stars at
Speaker 6: the top.
Speaker 5: But I think what we've seen as they've had to
Speaker 5: deal with the effects of kicking all the Breeze money
Speaker 5: down the road and kicking all those contracts down the road,
Speaker 5: you start to lose like the middle class of your roster.
Speaker 5: So when an I want to say, Taylor gets hurt,
Speaker 5: maybe you don't have someone to replace him. Where your
Speaker 5: offensive line gets hurt, you've probably got someone cheaper than
Speaker 5: what you had in the past as depth. So that's
Speaker 5: where you start to see it. Because I think it's
Speaker 5: interesting when people say, oh, the CAP's not real. CAP's
Speaker 5: not real, and for the most part, like, yeah, you
Speaker 5: can do your tricks to mess around with it, but
Speaker 5: when you put yourself into a situation like the Saints,
Speaker 5: it's just a slow bleed of talent over year after
Speaker 5: year after year after year.
Speaker 6: And I looked it up during the game today.
Speaker 5: They are projected to have negative eighty million dollars in
Speaker 5: cap space next year.
Speaker 3: So they get best around with that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, to a decent degree, but to a degree.
Speaker 3: Here's some guaranteed money that they have next year.
Speaker 4: I know it's a little early to be talking like
Speaker 4: next year for Saints, but Derek Carr ram check at
Speaker 4: your loving this As a Falcons fan, I want to
Speaker 4: get to your reaction to about how the Saints fans
Speaker 4: are or booing the hell out of the seam. But
Speaker 4: Derek Carr, ramcheck Cam, Jordan Kamara, Taysom Hill, Jamis, they
Speaker 4: all have money that's gonna be I think ten million
Speaker 4: dollars plus into next year, and yeah, they can keep
Speaker 4: spreading it out, but that's money that's gonna be on
Speaker 4: their cap. And the point is, like these are all
Speaker 4: declining players. You know, they're not players that are on
Speaker 4: the upswing for the most part.
Speaker 3: So now you're you're kind of tied into this core
Speaker 3: for at least a.
Speaker 4: Couple more years that aren't necessarily getting better. The whole
Speaker 4: point is to be maxing out this year, to get
Speaker 4: to nine or ten wins, to get Dennis Allen and
Speaker 4: Mickey Loomis another two years at this gig. I mean
Speaker 4: to me that that's been the whole point of this
Speaker 4: Saint season, and I think it's why the fans.
Speaker 3: Are especially so frustrated.
Speaker 4: How are you feeling watching them boo the hell out
Speaker 4: of the Saints, like in the first half the game
Speaker 4: was just like seven to three, and booing the checkdowns
Speaker 4: to Derek Carr like.
Speaker 3: They're three and three they're tied for Are they tied
Speaker 3: for first? Or the Bucks are three and two?
Speaker 6: But the Bucks are first?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're basically they're they're three and three though they're
Speaker 2: trying to get in the first place this week and
Speaker 2: their fans are booing the hell out of them because
Speaker 2: they're kind of just sick of watching this offense, Like
Speaker 2: how does that make you feel?
Speaker 6: As the Saint amazing?
Speaker 5: It's just it's wasn't like these people deserve to have
Speaker 5: I don't know that the best way that I can
Speaker 5: put it.
Speaker 3: Y'all much of it.
Speaker 5: But I can't get too ahead of myself because like this,
Speaker 5: this rivalry does get petty enough where someone will come
Speaker 5: back and pull this and say something to me about
Speaker 5: it if the Falcons offense doesn't pick it up.
Speaker 6: But for now, I mean.
Speaker 5: Watching Derek car Get Buddhas a Saints quarterback, it's like
Speaker 5: everything I dreamed of this offseason. It's what I It's
Speaker 5: what I need and and I think, what's what's crazy
Speaker 5: is I found myself looking at, you know, his contract
Speaker 5: to see if they could get out of it after
Speaker 5: the offseason.
Speaker 3: Yeah they kind of can, but they kind of can.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they'll they can and they will if if it
Speaker 4: goes downhill.
Speaker 3: Uh, but they'll eat half of it.
Speaker 4: We've kind of well, they eat I think plus ten
Speaker 4: million or something, and they would do that if that's
Speaker 4: what they feel like the best move is.
Speaker 3: We'll see how the rest of this season goes.
Speaker 5: The I think the interesting thing for where Saints fans are,
Speaker 5: where the organization is is every year, basically since Drew
Speaker 5: Brees has started to dwindle down through his retirement through
Speaker 5: this year, you're all in just based on how your
Speaker 5: roster is set up, like you.
Speaker 6: You kind of have to functionally be all in.
Speaker 5: So you're starting to see the mission returns on what
Speaker 5: being all in every single year starts to look like.
Speaker 5: And now you're you're kind of at a spot where,
Speaker 5: oh man, are some of our core players are getting older?
Speaker 5: We just signed Derek Carr and he doesn't look like
Speaker 5: he's a great fit here. And now we're just kind
Speaker 5: of waving around in no man's land again. So, like
Speaker 5: you said, their goal should be to get ten wins
Speaker 5: because job security matters if you are Dennis Allen and
Speaker 5: Mickey Loomis. But I don't really see what where this
Speaker 5: season is supposed to take.
Speaker 4: Them Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, but I
Speaker 4: do have a couple of points on what you just
Speaker 4: said with job security coming up after the break.
Speaker 3: Okay, I do.
Speaker 4: I do want to mention here how this was a
Speaker 4: revenge game for Doug Peterson. And I love the guys
Speaker 4: at the Saints Twitter podcast that I'm sure they are
Speaker 4: ranting tonight. They have one of the best team specific
Speaker 4: podcasts out there. You guys can check it out. And
Speaker 4: one of the things that always cracks me up is
Speaker 4: they're so pissed that Doug Peterson only got a Zoom
Speaker 4: interview when they hired Dennis Allen, that like they didn't
Speaker 4: want to fly that, you know, Doug Peterson, who had
Speaker 4: won a Super Bowl with Eagles down to New Orleans.
Speaker 3: They're just gotta cheap out.
Speaker 4: We're gonna we're gonna interview you on Zoom because we
Speaker 4: know we got this guy in house, Dennis Allen, who's
Speaker 4: now eighteen and forty two as a head coach in
Speaker 4: the NFL, and we kind of know we're going to
Speaker 4: hire him, and so these are kind of sham interviews.
Speaker 4: We're gonna do Eric the Enemy like that too, and
Speaker 4: we're not really going to.
Speaker 3: Try to get creative on offense.
Speaker 4: We're gonna keep Pete Carmichael, who you know, there were
Speaker 4: some whispers reports didn't even want the OC job because
Speaker 4: he was kind of he was.
Speaker 3: Kind of cool with just kind of being, you know,
Speaker 3: in the background.
Speaker 4: And I'm not saying that to like say, oh, let's
Speaker 4: just mock them. They made a bad choice. I'm saying
Speaker 4: it to point out what you talked about, which is like,
Speaker 4: I think they did that because Dennis Allen was the
Speaker 4: guy they knew that wasn't going to rock the boat.
Speaker 4: And I do think there is something about this organization
Speaker 4: where Gail Benson's there who took over for her late husband,
Speaker 4: and Mickey Loomis is really running this show. He has
Speaker 4: about as much power as anyone that's that's like no
Speaker 4: a note or not a head coach. Sean Payton's out
Speaker 4: the door, and I think they just wanted to like
Speaker 4: keep it all in house. They weren't hiring any new
Speaker 4: assistance from outside the building. It's all the same people.
Speaker 4: It's like all the same players. It's just like, let's
Speaker 4: just keep this all together. We don't want someone like
Speaker 4: Doug coming in here, who is going to bring in
Speaker 4: his own people, and who knows if it gets kind
Speaker 4: of sideways, like we're gonna be out of a job.
Speaker 3: So it's this whole sort of culture.
Speaker 4: That I think speaks to what even you were talking
Speaker 4: about with the roster getting stale. It's just like, let's
Speaker 4: just hold on to this as long as we can.
Speaker 4: Like I don't think there's any aspirations to win the
Speaker 4: super Bowl. It's like, let's get paid for like four
Speaker 4: or five more years if we can. And that's like
Speaker 4: I get it, Like I get the motivation to make
Speaker 4: that happen, but like, I don't think long term success
Speaker 4: is gonna is gonna happen when you make decisions like that.
Speaker 5: No, at the time, I kind of understood it because
Speaker 5: I do think where they were as far as like
Speaker 5: their roster construction in their cat space was kind of
Speaker 5: relevant for the hire they made. You know, I don't
Speaker 5: think it was quite inspiring higher because, like you said,
Speaker 5: eighteen and forty two record kind kind of speaks for
Speaker 5: itself after a while. All right, but you're at a
Speaker 5: point where, excuse me, you can't really blow it up
Speaker 5: and rebuild through the contracts you have, so maybe you
Speaker 5: just say, let's run it back to a degree and
Speaker 5: for Doug that worked out great for you, man, like
Speaker 5: you got you fell into the lap of Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 5: Now that gets Protty much.
Speaker 4: Better that way. And that that was at the point
Speaker 4: in the off season too. I Doug Peterson was not sure.
Speaker 3: To get a job.
Speaker 4: I forget now off the top of my head who
Speaker 4: Jacksonville's first pick was.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't Doug Peterson.
Speaker 5: It was that the Byron left which here was that
Speaker 5: in well maybe no, no, I think that was a
Speaker 5: year after.
Speaker 3: He didn't want to.
Speaker 4: It was the same iron cycle as Alan and but
Speaker 4: they ended up with a better coach with with Doug Peterson,
Speaker 4: and thank you. This is why I like the tn
Speaker 4: F recaps. The only time we go this deep into
Speaker 4: one team. It's the only time I really feel like
Speaker 4: I have the space where my regular co hosts Mark
Speaker 4: and Dan aren't just gonna cut me off from making
Speaker 4: my three minute rant on the Saints have just been
Speaker 4: trying to protect their jobs all these years with.
Speaker 6: Dennis it was Byron left wind. I just looked it up.
Speaker 6: Memory did not fail.
Speaker 5: Yeah, they picked Doug over Byron, and then Byron got
Speaker 5: fired after this past season.
Speaker 4: M well, they made they made a good choice, Doug,
Speaker 4: Doug Peterson doing a good job. And then the last
Speaker 4: thing on the Saints is you mentioned how, yeah, they
Speaker 4: didn't protect car Well tonight maybe a little better than
Speaker 4: you would expect. They did have backups at their tackle
Speaker 4: position that you know they they suddenly are very banged
Speaker 4: up there, but that speaks to the weirdness that's.
Speaker 3: Going on there.
Speaker 4: Their first round pick, Trevor Penning, was their left tackle
Speaker 4: started the whole season until last week when an article
Speaker 4: goes up on New Orleans Football dot Com. I don't
Speaker 4: know how deep you got into this charge now, but
Speaker 4: I'm deep at the Saint's Twitter talking basically about how
Speaker 4: bad Trevor Penning's been watched him play, sources inside the
Speaker 4: organization and saying how he's messing up the run game
Speaker 4: and that he's going to be benched, and that's how
Speaker 4: he learned that he was going to be benched. And
Speaker 4: I'm fine with like them benching Trevor Penning and he struggled.
Speaker 4: But this is some Dennis Allen stuff where he and
Speaker 4: he did it back in Oakland and he's done it
Speaker 4: a little bit in New Orleans with when they were
Speaker 4: going to trade ced deuce where he started seeing all
Speaker 4: this stuff popping out in the media, and he's just
Speaker 4: like kind of using the.
Speaker 3: Media to explain what he's going to do.
Speaker 4: But it's like, just tell the man, just tell the
Speaker 4: man in your bench, right, you don't need to like
Speaker 4: do some whole sourcing and bury him in the media.
Speaker 4: So it's like, I don't think players respect that, and
Speaker 4: they're not stupid. Believe me, if I'm talking about it,
Speaker 4: they're talking about.
Speaker 6: It well, especially with the Trevor Penning thing.
Speaker 5: It's not like benching would not have been totally justified
Speaker 5: based on Washington play.
Speaker 6: So I don't know why you would.
Speaker 4: Like they got and then their left tackle got hurt,
Speaker 4: and then their backup left tackle got hurt, the fifth
Speaker 4: string tackle.
Speaker 3: What's going on? They didn't start.
Speaker 5: I know, it's crazy that it kind of seems like
Speaker 5: they're just waving the white flag on Matt Pick already,
Speaker 5: which is kind of crazy, but he really.
Speaker 6: Has been that bad.
Speaker 5: I think it's it's it's also kind of an indictment
Speaker 5: on maybe even where they are like culturally that that
Speaker 5: they would rather go andres Pete and cam Irving as
Speaker 5: your tackles and even just try to have your first
Speaker 5: round tackle, you know, just give it a go.
Speaker 4: So he was on the field when they like lined up,
Speaker 4: I don't know if it was like seven on the
Speaker 4: line or something.
Speaker 3: For that Taysom Hill touchdown.
Speaker 6: In the backfield, you got tackle.
Speaker 4: You got your defensive tackle, Caylen Sanders in the backfield,
Speaker 4: you got Trevor Petting over there as like an extra
Speaker 4: tight end. I mean, every time I watch the Saints,
Speaker 4: I can't believe I got to this place. But I'm like,
Speaker 4: give me more Taysom Hill man.
Speaker 3: Like, you know, he's pretty good at what he does.
Speaker 3: He's not worth He's not worth the money that he gets.
Speaker 4: He's guaranteed like thirteen million dollars next year by the
Speaker 4: way too, so he's not going anywhere. But it's like
Speaker 4: at least they got some juice when he's on the field.
Speaker 4: He's been pretty good this year.
Speaker 5: As as so one who has been on the wrong
Speaker 5: end of a lot of Taysom Hill runs. As far
Speaker 5: as Falcon phantoms go, I swear to God that Taysom
Speaker 5: Hill quarterback power run is like one of the most
Speaker 5: unstoppable plays in football. Like when the goal line they
Speaker 5: can run it on first down in short yardage. Unfortunately,
Speaker 5: you know that's not a play you can run every
Speaker 5: single down. But as as a nice little change up,
Speaker 5: it's it's become kind of a crutch for their offense
Speaker 5: at times.
Speaker 6: And maybe he was worth that that contract at the game.
Speaker 3: I don't think turning into like a decent tight end.
Speaker 4: He went four for fifty tonight, Like you see him
Speaker 4: out there actually running some real routes because yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm watching the next Gen stats feed and like he's
Speaker 4: lined up as a wide receiver. I don't know how
Speaker 4: many snaps just seem like quite a bit of snaps.
Speaker 4: It's kind of crazy, but it just goes to show
Speaker 4: like that they're a wild They're a wild organization. I
Speaker 4: love having them in the NFL because there's no other
Speaker 4: team that's trading multiple first round picks and trading up
Speaker 4: for Trevor Penny and trading multiple first on picks for
Speaker 4: Chris o Lobby. They just do whatever the hell they want.
Speaker 4: Give this contract to taysoon Mill.
Speaker 3: They don't care.
Speaker 6: It's fun.
Speaker 5: It's definitely fun to watch because I'd respected to a
Speaker 5: degree just the never tank philosophy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're not bottoming out. We're going for it.
Speaker 5: But it's just starting to deteriorate, and I think this
Speaker 5: year is really one of the heaviest times you can see,
Speaker 5: oh wow, this is kind of going to be a
Speaker 5: multi year rebuild for them to get back to where
Speaker 5: they want to be.
Speaker 4: But like your Falcons and like the Bucks, this division
Speaker 4: is is pretty pretty lousy. So everyone's got hope, and
Speaker 4: so the Saints still have hope at three and four,
Speaker 4: but I'm kind of glad they're three and four because
Speaker 4: they deserve to be three and four.
Speaker 3: They don't deserve to be four and three.
Speaker 4: Let's finish by talking some positive about the Jaguars, maybe
Speaker 4: where we see them going from here. I've been really
Speaker 4: impressed this year with Foye Olukon. He's the one who
Speaker 4: got the pick six here. And Darius Williams, who really
Speaker 4: struggled last year on the outside. He came over from
Speaker 4: the Rams winning the Super Bowl there where he was
Speaker 4: a great story, really struggled a year ago and this
Speaker 4: year has been making a lot of good plays on
Speaker 4: the football and I believe he's the one that tipped
Speaker 4: up that pass that ended up being taken back in
Speaker 4: by a LUA Kan and I'm just seeing a lot
Speaker 4: of players that are a little more comfortable in this
Speaker 4: Mike Caldwell scheme in their second year, and they came
Speaker 4: into tonight leading the league in turnovers. They forced one tonight,
Speaker 4: they were without their best cornerback. Still look pretty good
Speaker 4: out there for the most part. Just tell me what
Speaker 4: you see in kind of what stands out with this
Speaker 4: defense this year.
Speaker 5: The run defense is so good, like they just pummel
Speaker 5: people up front. I thought one of the most impressive sequences,
Speaker 5: the suconsequences that they had was when they got down
Speaker 5: to the goal line and they gave up the first down,
Speaker 5: and it was like the sixteen play drive where Taysom
Speaker 5: Hills scored on the fourth down, but they stuffed him
Speaker 5: on first and goal, second and goal, third and goal
Speaker 5: before they gave it up on fourth down.
Speaker 6: That stuff was so impressive to me. I think we just.
Speaker 5: Watched how they beat up on the Saints O line
Speaker 5: throughout the night. It's like, man, if they can just
Speaker 5: get something out of Trayvon Walker, because Josh Allen's here
Speaker 5: this year, if they can just get something out of
Speaker 5: Trayvon Walker, like that defense could really really ascend because
Speaker 5: they have the run defense, Like you said, when Tyson
Speaker 5: Campbell gets back, I think that second day is looking
Speaker 5: pretty good, especially with the development of Andre Cisco on
Speaker 5: the back end. You can just get another pass rusher
Speaker 5: to pair at that run defense and the development of
Speaker 5: linebackers like that defense is gonna be just a pain
Speaker 5: when it gets to the playoffs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Trayvon Walker does contribute in the running game.
Speaker 4: He's a good run defender, and they're tough to push.
Speaker 4: They've actually gotten healthier. I think Devon Hamilton was he back,
Speaker 4: he's big.
Speaker 6: He's coming back. He's a backer, is coming back soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and.
Speaker 4: If they're somewhat balanced, they got to get their offense
Speaker 4: to improve. But this was one of those games where
Speaker 4: it was like they were negative to and turn in
Speaker 4: the first half, and they went into halftime up seventeen
Speaker 4: six despite the Saints I'm doing I'm counting it now
Speaker 4: got seven possessions in the first half and so and
Speaker 4: the Jaguars only held them to six, So I look
Speaker 4: at that stuff. Then they hold them to a field goal,
Speaker 4: then they get the pick six. So at that point
Speaker 4: in the game, we're into the fourth quarter. Now the
Speaker 4: defense has already been on the field for nine or
Speaker 4: ten possessions. They've actually scored more points with that pick
Speaker 4: six then they've given up at that point. It's totally
Speaker 4: on the Jaguars offense that the game isn't just over over.
Speaker 4: And if the Jaguars offense didn't go three plays, four plays,
Speaker 4: then first down and punt and downs and then first
Speaker 4: down and punt in the second half, like this score
Speaker 4: would have been different and we would have been talking
Speaker 4: about the Jaguars, like we wouldn't be looking at a
Speaker 4: twenty four spot that New Orleans put up. So it's
Speaker 4: one of those things you got to watch the whole
Speaker 4: game to get the whole story, because to me, the
Speaker 4: Jaguars offense for the most part let them down, you
Speaker 4: know after that first quarter surge, and the defense won
Speaker 4: them this game.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this was a defensive led performance. For sure.
Speaker 5: I would find this performance a little concerning if I
Speaker 5: was a Jaguars fan, because, like, you've made it to
Speaker 5: the playoffs, you've had a signature moment by coming back
Speaker 5: from the Chargers and even playing well against the Chief
Speaker 5: for the most part in that the visual game, so
Speaker 5: now you kind of want a little bit more and
Speaker 5: to me, like a performance like that when we're stuck
Speaker 5: in park for like two quarters at a time. That's
Speaker 5: a little bit every.
Speaker 3: Game though this year. That right, I know that was
Speaker 3: against the Colts last week.
Speaker 5: Actually, even the Falcons in the second half, they weren't
Speaker 5: really moving even.
Speaker 4: The Chiefs game, which they didn't win, but they were
Speaker 4: kind of stuck there the whole time.
Speaker 3: It's it's been consistent like this. It's a little concern.
Speaker 4: But when they got the ball, I gotta say, for
Speaker 4: some reason, I just was like, the Saints are gonna
Speaker 4: mess this up one way or another. Like even when
Speaker 4: it was tied, I was like, I don't know how
Speaker 4: the Saints are going to lose, but they're gonna lose it.
Speaker 4: And to the Jaguars credit, they get the ball back
Speaker 4: after punting it three forty five left after a terrible
Speaker 4: punt on the Saints forty six second play of that drive,
Speaker 4: Christian Kirk just made Honey Badger look slow. Kind of
Speaker 4: hurt my heart because I'm a big Honey Badger fan,
Speaker 4: but tough, I've never seen Christian Kirk look so good.
Speaker 4: So give them some credit for you know, their best
Speaker 4: two players on offense for the most part, is Lawrence
Speaker 4: and etn. But Kirk's probably third right now. And Kirk
Speaker 4: made a big time play there forty four yards to
Speaker 4: go win the game.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that was that was like a poor one
Speaker 5: out for Honey Badger moment because he got dusted and
Speaker 5: it was it was one of those moments where so
Speaker 5: where Christian Kirk you could see the he was accelerating
Speaker 5: away and Honey Badgers kind of stay at the same speed.
Speaker 5: And I was like, oh, no, it ain't quite you know,
Speaker 5: twenty eighteen anymore. But I think I think that's kind
Speaker 5: of where the Saints are going to exist though, for
Speaker 5: the next few years. Right now for the Jaguars are though,
Speaker 5: because it's a young it's a young, good roster. You
Speaker 5: can still ad pieces too.
Speaker 3: No, and they'll they'll have decisions to make.
Speaker 4: Josh Allen is having a crazy good contract year, so
Speaker 4: they might have to use the tag with him. But
Speaker 4: Calvin Ridley is a free agent too, so there's a.
Speaker 3: Lot coming up. But they don't have to worry about
Speaker 3: that that they got a chance to do things this year.
Speaker 4: In this AFC. They are the favorites in the a
Speaker 4: f C South. You're one of my favorites Charles, I
Speaker 4: appreciate you exemplest.
Speaker 3: Podcast What's Up? And you're still writing the four verts
Speaker 3: on Yahoo dot com.
Speaker 4: You're still doing doing the good thing, one of my
Speaker 4: favorite columns out there, and writing some other stuff during
Speaker 4: the week.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm going to uh phillyas week for the Dolphins
Speaker 5: Eagles game.
Speaker 6: So oh dang, really excited about.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, root for the Eagles there. I locked
Speaker 3: them up. We do our locks of the Week every
Speaker 3: every week. It's a competition.
Speaker 4: I wanted to take the Jags, I said it, and
Speaker 4: then Lawrence's injury freaked me out. I didn't want to
Speaker 4: have to wait until game time, so I got off
Speaker 4: the Jags. So Egles better come through with me. Who
Speaker 4: you got in that game? Okay, that's Charles, still still thinking,
Speaker 4: not just about the Super Bowl, but the following year
Speaker 4: when I was with you, I was at I was
Speaker 4: in Philadelphia. For some reason, I liked that Falcons team
Speaker 4: because I wanted them to get some redemption. I think
Speaker 4: they had a chance to win the Super Bowl that
Speaker 4: next year. People don't remember that, And Matt Ryan sailed that, uh.
Speaker 5: Well you know what we almost had that What you
Speaker 5: know we almost had that year was Falcon Saints NFC
Speaker 5: Title game because that was the Stephan Diggs catch last
Speaker 5: year too. One play away in each game from Falcon
Speaker 5: Saints NFC Title game, which is basically like World War Three.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Instead, we got Brandon Graham strips up and strip sacking
Speaker 4: my guy Tom Brady in the Super Bowl Charles great
Speaker 4: job again. Fun game, Jaguars win it. Thirty one twenty four.
Speaker 4: We will be back here on Sunday for.
Speaker 3: The flagship recap show. In the meantime,