Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season three ten, episode
Speaker 1: two of Daly'sai guyst.
Speaker 2: Day production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive
Speaker 1: into America's disgusting, filthy share consciousness. It is Tuesday, October
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, twenty twenty three. We are a week out
Speaker 1: miles t minus one week, seven days.
Speaker 2: Oh thanks you hellos?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah yeah, California Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3: Yeah, how we do it?
Speaker 2: What we call it?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: It's also I was, I was sidetracked because today is
Speaker 2: National Polony Day, National food Day, hey, which seems a
Speaker 2: little redundant, but hey.
Speaker 1: Yeah sure national My Bologny is a first name, so
Speaker 1: please speak at the name.
Speaker 2: Oh my bed, my bet, my bet name Oscar Oscar.
Speaker 2: It's National food today. Yeah, fo you know love it was?
Speaker 1: That was that day instituted by somebody who's just like,
Speaker 1: fucking everything has a day like as an act of
Speaker 1: protest or was there somebody who got real high and
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, hits really different these days
Speaker 1: for me?
Speaker 2: Food?
Speaker 3: Have you this corporate consolidation like it was just monopolies
Speaker 3: now so they could just say food.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the one food company, the three places you get
Speaker 1: your quote unquote food from But yeah, I think it
Speaker 1: started in twenty eleven, Like hell yeah, that is about
Speaker 1: when we started realizing food.
Speaker 2: Hell food, food, food, it hits different.
Speaker 3: Award. I'd like to take food.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely number one, first and foremost oxygen food.
Speaker 1: We are probably a couple of years away from a
Speaker 1: like one of those farmer campaigns where they like spend
Speaker 1: their massive you know whatever. The opposite of a deficit
Speaker 1: is like all the money that they get from the
Speaker 1: government like milk. Yeah, they're massive subsidies on a advertising
Speaker 1: campaign like the the Got Milk thing, but like it'll
Speaker 1: be like pork it's different or hell yeah, dude, hell.
Speaker 4: Yeah, milk is different.
Speaker 2: Had like a weird mockumentary thing where they're trying to
Speaker 2: like just smirch any like oat milk, anything that wasn't milk,
Speaker 2: and I was like with Aubrey plaza, and I was like,
Speaker 2: this is okay, this is cool, this is cool propaganda.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I forget what they call it, but it's like
Speaker 1: tree juice or something like yeah, exactly, very derogatory like.
Speaker 2: Tree milk or something. I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyways, my name's Jack O'Brien aka Jack.
Speaker 2: You look good.
Speaker 1: Won't you piss those pants up? Legs are plump, motherfuckers?
Speaker 1: Won't you piss those pants up? Eat Swedish eat Swedish
Speaker 1: fish readers. When you piss those pants up? How and
Speaker 1: get to lambeau ing? Piss those pants up? That is
Speaker 1: courtesy of Macaroni on the discord on an.
Speaker 2: Absolute Heater auto correct.
Speaker 1: Why can't you just accept that the word lamba ing
Speaker 1: is happening without trying to turn it into lambing, which
Speaker 1: is not a thing that is happening. Is not a
Speaker 1: word lambing.
Speaker 4: We're lambeau ing, We're lambeau ango.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna say, sir madam, but auto correct definitely
Speaker 1: a man right.
Speaker 2: The energy feels very.
Speaker 1: Unactually the professional AI.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, oh, I think I know you're trying
Speaker 2: to say here the person who typed it in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let me correct you there. Anyways, I'm thrilled
Speaker 1: to be joined as always by my co host mister
Speaker 1: Miles Gress Miles Gray AKA.
Speaker 4: When I need some potassium but I want to get drunk.
Speaker 4: I drink ninety nine bananas, but I don't keep down.
Speaker 2: One hit me, Okay, shout out to my whole thing
Speaker 2: about drinking ninety bananas.
Speaker 4: A Fighter of the Nightmare for making that a jay Z.
Speaker 2: Wow, that was good. It's one of my favorites in
Speaker 2: a while.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Fighter of the Nightman. Well Miles, we
Speaker 1: are thrilled to be joined in our third seat. A
Speaker 1: creative and political activist who hosts Beyond the Pale and
Speaker 1: w B A I in New York Must listen these days,
Speaker 1: always a must listen, but especially of late. Is a
Speaker 1: caucus member of Jews for Racial and Economic Justice, co
Speaker 1: founder of its electoral armed the Jewish Vote. Please welcome
Speaker 1: back to this show, Raphael Shumann.
Speaker 4: Up, it's good to have you.
Speaker 3: How you doing, man, that's good, you know, considering gestures
Speaker 3: to the world, Yeah, okay, but trying to it's so weird.
Speaker 3: It's like, I think a lot of people feel this,
Speaker 3: but like when the world is like this, you're supposed
Speaker 3: to sometimes lock it out and do your job job,
Speaker 3: and it just seems really challenged to get into normal
Speaker 3: modes like doing laundry while while you should be in
Speaker 3: the streets and what feels like all the time right now, But.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've been in these streets recently arrested
Speaker 1: and for your work trying to get Chuck Schumer to
Speaker 1: help bring about a ceasefire.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and to convince his niece to stop acting and
Speaker 3: stop commed.
Speaker 2: That's the fun social media, Yeah, yeah, watching the social
Speaker 2: media masks will slip on. Yeah means like, all right,
Speaker 2: well we're going to get into all of that plenty more,
Speaker 2: but first we do like to get to know you
Speaker 2: a little bit better by asking you what is something
Speaker 2: from your search history that's about.
Speaker 3: Who you are? Like, the thing I always do, and
Speaker 3: it's probably always the last thing is always I'm a
Speaker 3: bad speller, So it's every random word to just get
Speaker 3: the Google auto correct and then use that. It's a
Speaker 3: really boring last search start, but it's what I need.
Speaker 3: That's my my lifesaver over there.
Speaker 2: What's the what's the what word? Are getting hung up on?
Speaker 3: One? Is always? Like, So now I developed a nomadic
Speaker 3: device to remember this one principal versus principal pal, and
Speaker 3: I realized, like, you know, the principal of the school
Speaker 3: wants to be your pal.
Speaker 1: But you just picture the principle of the school turning
Speaker 1: his back his baseball cap around backwards.
Speaker 2: I want to talk to you, Yeah, I want to
Speaker 2: talk to you about some of your Instagram posts. My man,
Speaker 2: there you go. That's like always the same thing with
Speaker 2: a cap a tel like a capital versus a capitol building.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Well I still say that one get through like in
Speaker 4: like established I guess this quote unquote outlets for journalism,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, you can't fuck that up now, I
Speaker 4: certainly can.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me how you keep it straight? Because
Speaker 1: this principal ship is gonna save my ass every time.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just the toll well is always
Speaker 2: the building, you know, for who can the bell tolls right.
Speaker 3: The buildings around? Like, oh you could do that?
Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah yeah, but I think I only remembered
Speaker 2: it because I only saw capital written as a kid first.
Speaker 2: And then when that new one, yeah, like capt to
Speaker 2: cow likes.
Speaker 1: It over here. So I the I used to get
Speaker 1: desert and dessert mixed up, and then a girl I
Speaker 1: was dating, it's like, well you always want more dessert
Speaker 1: and dessert has two s'so nobody wants more dessert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so one, So.
Speaker 3: There you we just we just spun off a new podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, a roll when you're when something
Speaker 1: is rolling. Two l's, you know, the l's get on
Speaker 1: a roll. Yeah, so that's you know, and this this
Speaker 1: could be the whole show.
Speaker 2: Conaughey, mic conn august, Hey, what do you know there?
Speaker 1: It is all right?
Speaker 3: What are you doing to write? Matthew mcnaughey. So often
Speaker 3: we were doing it.
Speaker 2: There was a run. There was like when he was
Speaker 2: talking about running for.
Speaker 1: And we were fully in support of it, and so
Speaker 1: we had headlines such as, why not now, McConaughey, why
Speaker 1: not now? Yeah, mcconnaughe, Hey, how about this handsome fella?
Speaker 1: I do like to watch his scene in Wolf of
Speaker 1: Wall Street on a somewhat regular basis. The vocal warm
Speaker 1: up right into him, just fully embodying everybody I know
Speaker 1: who has ever worked on Wall Street Street?
Speaker 2: Bros?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is something you think is overrated?
Speaker 3: Overrated? The Pledge of Allegiance? I'm sure people have touched
Speaker 3: on that, right. It's just so creepy. It's like like
Speaker 3: it's like.
Speaker 5: Hey, before class begins, we're gonna tell you some dirty
Speaker 5: ship that we did as a nation. But before we do,
Speaker 5: here's a like a blood oath bond.
Speaker 2: But you would die for this ship right here. I
Speaker 2: would die for this you too, right.
Speaker 3: Right, then you kill someone in front of them. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like benzal in training.
Speaker 2: That right, right right, Yeah, it's a why would we
Speaker 2: just think? I went to Lutheran school in elementary school,
Speaker 2: and I was I've always brought this up when the
Speaker 2: Fledge Pledge of allegiance came up. We had to also
Speaker 2: pledge allegiance to the fucking Christian flag and to this
Speaker 2: Christian flag dude, to the Savior for whose kingdom it
Speaker 2: stands was the whole thing. And I was just like,
Speaker 2: this is so yeah, it's a The flag is like
Speaker 2: it's white with like a purple. It's like shaped like
Speaker 2: the American flag, but it's all white. And where the
Speaker 2: stars are it's like purple with a red cross in it.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: And everything else white. The stripes are white, no stripes,
Speaker 2: it's just like basically white where we'd get blue. And
Speaker 2: because if they're both white then you wouldn't be able
Speaker 2: to tell. Hey, and that's all white with us.
Speaker 3: That sounds about white.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds about white. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The pledges and wild Ship I think under God was
Speaker 1: added fairly recently. Yeah, because they were like, no, why what,
Speaker 1: why why would we know our whole thing is that
Speaker 1: we did this like to avoid getting God like those
Speaker 1: well those are the freaking guys, right, we don't do
Speaker 1: the God thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, oh, you guys are gonna love this in
Speaker 2: about two hundred years.
Speaker 1: What is something you think is underrated?
Speaker 3: Oh? I think it's interesting. In Jewish culture or religion,
Speaker 3: we don't say the word God. We don't say God's
Speaker 3: name unless we really mean it. So we have like
Speaker 3: a placeholder name, and we say because we want we
Speaker 3: don't want to like cry wolf. You know, God's out
Speaker 3: there listening to everything at all times. And if we
Speaker 3: just keep saying God, God, God, God, God, God, what
Speaker 3: about when I actually need God? So there's and which
Speaker 3: is like the that's how you refer to saying God.
Speaker 3: But when you actually are meaning God, you have to
Speaker 3: say God's name, which I can't say on the show
Speaker 3: unless you're giving something to pray about.
Speaker 1: But is so you can say like goddamn. And that's
Speaker 1: because that's not God's name, right.
Speaker 3: No, yeah, for us, it's not God's name, right, so God,
Speaker 3: but we won't spell a lot of us won't even
Speaker 3: spell God, g D G dash D if you notice, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: So so some people include the word God to not
Speaker 3: even say the word God, which I just don't.
Speaker 2: Isn't like an abbreviation for like, isn't it like abbreviated
Speaker 2: yahweh too?
Speaker 3: Yes, there is. There's a with an apostrophe kind of
Speaker 3: kind of deal.
Speaker 2: Right right right, Yeah, I like that. I like that.
Speaker 3: Now, now now you better be say something important because
Speaker 3: you said God's name, and now he's listening to the podcast.
Speaker 3: So this whole podcast we got, we got raise the bar,
Speaker 3: raise the bar.
Speaker 2: I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and his kingdom
Speaker 2: for Christ with I sucked it up. No, but I
Speaker 2: do like this conceptually about being like, yo, don't wear
Speaker 2: God out, you know what I mean, don't always can
Speaker 2: be like please and just you're talking about like I
Speaker 2: lost my keys, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Or like you're fucking you know, like you just yeah,
Speaker 3: like he doesn't want to see that, but he has
Speaker 3: to check in because said.
Speaker 1: Right, he's sorry, sorry, somebody's calling my name over.
Speaker 3: Money shot.
Speaker 2: No, I'm yeah, just like a college roommate who errently
Speaker 2: walking Okay, sorry, guys, got I heard my name?
Speaker 3: Like that idea, and I think we should do more
Speaker 3: of it. We should do more at words for when
Speaker 3: we don't mean the word ye.
Speaker 2: Right, well yeah truly because I think like in a
Speaker 2: way like I get for me personally going to like
Speaker 2: Lutheran and Catholic schools, like it feels like it just
Speaker 2: gets worn out to a point, like you say it
Speaker 2: so much and like yeah, yeah, God for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah the question is nothing sacred in this country? Absolutely not, no, no,
Speaker 1: what what. I'm reading a book about the NBA and
Speaker 1: then I teen seventies, like written in the nineteen seventies,
Speaker 1: and it's just wild, like the things that we have
Speaker 1: fully taken for granted about how just everything media, everything
Speaker 1: works like they're still getting used to it, like the
Speaker 1: cellauty nature and shit, and like they're just like it's
Speaker 1: really weird. Like money comes in and kind of like
Speaker 1: corrupts things, and like the owners kind of feel like
Speaker 1: they know better than the people who like play and
Speaker 1: coach basketball, which is weird because they just made their
Speaker 1: money in frozen food.
Speaker 2: But it's their dad dying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dad's dying as the number one wealth creator I.
Speaker 1: Think in this country absolutely.
Speaker 3: Whenever it dies, it like when when an angel loses,
Speaker 3: when a dad dies.
Speaker 4: Yeah, someone gets a lamba damn man, how I get
Speaker 4: like you?
Speaker 2: All right? First of all, you just got to wait
Speaker 2: for your super rich to die. Oh I don't know,
Speaker 2: my dad, I don't think that's what.
Speaker 1: Well the money roll in. Well that's on you, man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's on you for not knowing.
Speaker 4: Hey, bootstrap it, man, you get a better dad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, stop buying those Starbucks.
Speaker 6: Exactly, exactly, you fucking avocado toast habit is not just
Speaker 6: bad for you, bad for this country, it's bad for
Speaker 6: your whole generation.
Speaker 3: Sir.
Speaker 2: We were just talking about avocado toast guy because he
Speaker 2: was the same guy who was like, yeah, man, like
Speaker 2: people need to lose their job, so they stopped trying
Speaker 2: to think that they like employers should be given them
Speaker 2: more money. That Australian Yeah, dude, he's the guy who
Speaker 2: he's the og avocado toast guy, and he's a fucking millennial.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like a young Australian millennial. Yeah, but he
Speaker 1: gets it.
Speaker 2: He gets it. All right.
Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's take a quick break and we'll come
Speaker 1: back and talk about what's happening in Gaza and the
Speaker 1: movement for peace in the United States.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: And we're back and rat First, first of all, I
Speaker 1: listened to I think it was the most recent episode
Speaker 1: of Beyond the Pale is the most recent episode that
Speaker 1: was on SoundCloud where you were talking about your experience,
Speaker 1: you know, like we referenced earlier, you know, protesting at
Speaker 1: Schumer's house getting arrested. That there was a story from
Speaker 1: the bus that n YPD put you guys on the
Speaker 1: bus after. And there was a story about a where
Speaker 1: there's original and about a wedding song that that just
Speaker 1: like kind of warmed my heart in gave me something
Speaker 1: to warm my heart in a place that I wasn't
Speaker 1: expecting necessarily to have my heart warmed.
Speaker 2: Can you talk about those two stories.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we were in front of Chuck Schumer's house
Speaker 3: to push him to back the ceasefire legislation that's coming
Speaker 3: out that already has come out since then by Corey
Speaker 3: Bush and Russido to leave and others. And he's used
Speaker 3: to people in front of his house and he also
Speaker 3: heard about it. So the police were ready. So what
Speaker 3: we have to do is block the streets and Grand
Speaker 3: Army Plaza, which is a big plaza that's like a
Speaker 3: major artery in Brooklyn, where he lives, and that's where
Speaker 3: we were arrested. I think over fifty three of us
Speaker 3: or so. Yeah, And of course we were put in
Speaker 3: these buses. NYPD likes to commandeer MTA buses when they
Speaker 3: have a mass arrest, and that's what they did here.
Speaker 3: And they were basically pulling us into the bus from
Speaker 3: blocking the traffic. And it's Brooklyn, so half the people
Speaker 3: we blocked the traffic before, we're like cheering us and
Speaker 3: recording and putting on social media. So we were going
Speaker 3: into the bus and I realized they sit down puffed
Speaker 3: in this bus and hey everyone, because police here pretty
Speaker 3: much are obsessed with arresting people for jumping fairs, not
Speaker 3: paying fairs, and everyone just started singing a song like
Speaker 3: like just calling them out for all, like not only
Speaker 3: comingdeering a bus for free, but all of them just
Speaker 3: walking in for free, which is they actually Yeah, there
Speaker 3: was a story where we were arrested with two elected
Speaker 3: officials in the state and one of them was Zoron
Speaker 3: and he was on Mendani and he was with me
Speaker 3: and a friend and this woman, an older woman, amazing
Speaker 3: adorable activists. Her name is we call her raz but
Speaker 3: her name is Rosalind Pachsky, and she's a very like,
Speaker 3: long time and very all member of Jewish Voice for
Speaker 3: Peace ABP, which was part of that coalition of left
Speaker 3: Jewish people and activists that were confronting It. Was like
Speaker 3: two thousand people came out to confront Schumer on this,
Speaker 3: and they bring her into the buns and she sits
Speaker 3: down and you imagine like maybe a five foot tall,
Speaker 3: like sweet grandma, and she's looking in and sits down.
Speaker 3: Her hands are behind her back, and what we realize
Speaker 3: is that she's not really cuffed, like she's somehow waiting
Speaker 3: to get a custom.
Speaker 2: To pro move.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so your hands buying your back immediately, and they'll
Speaker 1: assume that you've been.
Speaker 3: I don't think why she was cuffed or why she
Speaker 3: maybe someone felt bad for her, they didn't cover I
Speaker 3: don't know, but the thing is she's like has her
Speaker 3: hands on her back that everyone thinks she's cuffed. And
Speaker 3: there's this and Zara Zarn's Muslim and one of the
Speaker 3: few are only actually Muslim elected in that in that
Speaker 3: state Assembly. He's just like, you know, sitting there, we're
Speaker 3: all like in pain with these cuffs, and he just
Speaker 3: does the most jewish motherly kind of amazing thing, which
Speaker 3: was you just see her hand, you see him and
Speaker 3: her kind of look and wait till the cops are
Speaker 3: looking the other way. And then her hand slips out
Speaker 3: from her back, goes into a bag and takes out
Speaker 3: a candy, which I immediately realize is a wor there's
Speaker 3: original and Zoron without a word, turns around, opens his
Speaker 3: mouth and she feeds him this candy and makes her
Speaker 3: hand back in behind her like she's a cuff. And
Speaker 3: it just was the most amazing thing for someone like
Speaker 3: me who often has a camera on him. Is really
Speaker 3: so I'm telling I'm gonna I'm reaching Molly Crabapple with
Speaker 3: this story. She's like, I think you all know about her.
Speaker 3: She's just amazing illustrator. And I want to have this
Speaker 3: illustrated because to me that it was this magical moment.
Speaker 3: And while I'm experiencing that moment, I mean, where there's
Speaker 3: a you know, like, what are there commercials like this?
Speaker 3: Like didn't we grow up with were there's original commercials
Speaker 3: like this? Not like in a bus getting.
Speaker 1: Arrested right when protesting It would have been way more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was like typically like an older elder
Speaker 3: or someone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, an elder showing love.
Speaker 1: Yeah that is, and none of.
Speaker 3: Us we're ever excited by where there's original.
Speaker 1: No, but like in that situation, hell yeah, like the
Speaker 1: brand is strong.
Speaker 3: I didn't even know it was still around, but I
Speaker 3: could use it one right, Yeah, but yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 3: Like yeah, so that that's like the story that's like
Speaker 3: the ones. There's so many stories of ros wherever you
Speaker 3: go with her. He's a powerful figure that brings a
Speaker 3: lot of history with her. She was like Acunia professor
Speaker 3: and reproductive right scholar back in the day when like
Speaker 3: no one was that. Yeah, she's incredible. And then there
Speaker 3: was this other I think the other story you're referring
Speaker 3: to is while I'm like while we're kind of like
Speaker 3: looking down and we were like shaking the bus. We
Speaker 3: were like giving the cops a really hard time. And
Speaker 3: during that moment, one of my someone at Jews for
Speaker 3: Racial and Economic Justice, their new political director, he came
Speaker 3: on the bus and I guess enough of us knew.
Speaker 3: Alicia actually got married that day. Earlier that day that
Speaker 3: then that day, Alicia was had her marriage and decided
Speaker 3: that her honeymoon was going to be getting arrested with us,
Speaker 3: and so people just started stomping and singing, and it's
Speaker 3: a bustle of Jews. So it was like the Jewish
Speaker 3: wedding song. I was like, everyone's like stomping. It was
Speaker 3: so beautiful. But I even caught a cop like put
Speaker 3: his hand on his heart and just be like, ah,
Speaker 3: way are you pretending.
Speaker 4: He's like you need some chairs for the whole Like
Speaker 4: what these cups?
Speaker 3: Sorry? Yeah, he's been to it looked like he'd been
Speaker 3: to a Jewish wedding. And you know, those are just
Speaker 3: like the two beautiful things that happen in this kind
Speaker 3: of movement space where where people come out for real
Speaker 3: shit and still we find like joy and right friendship
Speaker 3: and stuff and these things and those long conversations we
Speaker 3: have in jail cells and sitting on a jail cell
Speaker 3: and seeing the carvings of like act up etched on
Speaker 3: the thing, and one day, twenty years from now, someone
Speaker 3: else sitting there seeing the etchings of BLM on the
Speaker 3: chairs and just getting that energy from this long arc you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, I don't know that story.
Speaker 1: And just generally the movement that you're involved in is
Speaker 1: such a beautiful testament to the Jewish faith that like
Speaker 1: I don't know, so that so many people at this
Speaker 1: time of terror are willing to like advocate for justice,
Speaker 1: and it reflects like a clarity and the humanism that
Speaker 1: is uncommon in the religions I grew up around, you know,
Speaker 1: like a Baptist in the South, or like Catholicism or
Speaker 1: you know, but I've always I've always admired the Jewish faith,
Speaker 1: and you know, I feel like this is a time when, yeah,
Speaker 1: people like the things that are getting talked about are
Speaker 1: this violent Zionism or anti Semitism. It's like, no, like
Speaker 1: what about these stories?
Speaker 3: You know? Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But you were also there for a story that came
Speaker 1: up on the show in DC, the action on the
Speaker 1: rotunda and the question that we were asking on this
Speaker 1: show is where the fuck was the FBI?
Speaker 2: Man, like more evidence.
Speaker 1: That the deep state has a massive left wing bias?
Speaker 1: Am I right?
Speaker 2: I mean there was Yeah, like Marjorie Taylor Green said,
Speaker 2: this is an insurrection with that same energy, which was
Speaker 2: really baffling to see when truly we're seeing.
Speaker 4: People come together to advocate for peace.
Speaker 3: But there's this Fox clip I should send you, and
Speaker 3: it's it's them like wondering how we got in and
Speaker 3: how we did it. And then the Fox journalist actually
Speaker 3: who was on the ground was kind of like honest,
Speaker 3: and he was just like, Oh, they got in by
Speaker 3: just going through the metal detector and saying that they're
Speaker 3: coming to practice free speech and that's our free speech laws.
Speaker 3: Like they were trying to make it into this big
Speaker 3: thing like people look the way.
Speaker 2: So did open the doors for them to enter it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, But it was just like anyone can go
Speaker 3: into the rotunda and meet their their Congress member and talk,
Speaker 3: you know, you could literally talk to their staff. You
Speaker 3: passed by AOC's you see a bunch of post its
Speaker 3: on the wall, like she's like the rock star in Congress.
Speaker 3: Of all these post it's like showing their adoration and
Speaker 3: support of AOC, and.
Speaker 1: It's kind of it's kind of cool, but just like, so,
Speaker 1: so what's the difference between that and what happened on
Speaker 1: January sixth? Like that's why I was like, oh, just
Speaker 1: because you guys weren't ripping things off the wall and
Speaker 1: chanting that you wanted to.
Speaker 2: Hang the Vice president.
Speaker 1: That's that's why you're allowed in the public.
Speaker 3: It's basically the public doar in public?
Speaker 1: Come right, how did you get this cheat code that
Speaker 1: you weren't supposed to rip things off the wall and
Speaker 1: threaten to kill.
Speaker 3: But it was it was that there was two actions
Speaker 3: in DC. One was led by if Not Now, and
Speaker 3: that was sealing all the entrances and exits to the
Speaker 3: White House, which the Secret Service arrested people for. And
Speaker 3: then this event a couple of days later for the
Speaker 3: for Congress, and that was to really just take over
Speaker 3: the rotunda and and what happened was there was ten
Speaker 3: thousand people outside supporting US, five hundred went in and
Speaker 3: together that was the largest Jewish action for Palestinians in
Speaker 3: history anywhere in the world.
Speaker 1: Wow, can you describe what if Not Now?
Speaker 3: Is?
Speaker 1: Just for anybody who doesn't know.
Speaker 3: So there's two groups really largely at play here. One
Speaker 3: is if Not Now and if Not Now? So Holstary
Speaker 3: JVP Jewish Voice Piece because it's older, it's like three
Speaker 3: decades old, and it started, of course with in solidarity
Speaker 3: with Palestinian So it's very much like their orientation is
Speaker 3: like go to the front line of who's being affected
Speaker 3: by the occupation and partheide and let them lead and
Speaker 3: we be their Jewish allies their comrades, you know, and
Speaker 3: that's a beautiful model. And if not, now it's ook
Speaker 3: at another level, not in competition or anything, but like
Speaker 3: that identifying that there's also something in our culture and
Speaker 3: how we were raised that needs to be addressed and
Speaker 3: that we need to unlearn the things that we were
Speaker 3: raised with throughout our lives. And so it's very much
Speaker 3: inward and it's very much more youth oriented at least initially,
Speaker 3: and then also really specifically about ending American Jewish support
Speaker 3: for for apartheid and occupation.
Speaker 2: And like, and I've seen so many wilds, Like I've
Speaker 2: seen people call Jewish Voice for Peace like a terrorist group,
Speaker 2: like some really awful shit or like and I and rap.
Speaker 2: Since I've known you, and like you've come on the show,
Speaker 2: like we've had a lot of conversations where your work
Speaker 2: in you know, standing up and they're being in solidarity
Speaker 2: with the people of Palestine has opened you up to
Speaker 2: all kinds of attacks like that people would accuse you
Speaker 2: of being like self of self hatred and things like that.
Speaker 2: I'm really curious, especially for you, who's so involved in
Speaker 2: this and is looking at it through the perspective you
Speaker 2: are like what that's been like to watch watch these
Speaker 2: things unfold the last few weeks and begin to see
Speaker 2: these rifts open up in really really dramatic ways, and
Speaker 2: you know like what that process is to sort of
Speaker 2: look on and say, like so, like some of us
Speaker 2: are here, others are completely there. Yeah, like what how
Speaker 2: do we make sense of it?
Speaker 3: That's such a good question, And there's still so many
Speaker 3: open things that we're learning, Like right now, there is
Speaker 3: a use of the statistics. There is a huge difference
Speaker 3: depending on your age and like where you fall. And
Speaker 3: this issued either as an American of any faith or
Speaker 3: no faith, or as a Jew. But I think if
Speaker 3: not now in JPP had like shift the paradigm and
Speaker 3: made it safer for a lot of people to be
Speaker 3: able to say, like why am I being called anti Semitic?
Speaker 3: If these Jews are also believe what I believe? And
Speaker 3: then also we do that too, like we say, why
Speaker 3: are we called self hating Jews? If Israel's largest human
Speaker 3: rights organization calls it apartheid and there's a whole society
Speaker 3: called making the silence? Who are veterans in Israel who
Speaker 3: oppose the occupation? Many of them had even refused to
Speaker 3: serve and spend jail time refusing to serve. And it
Speaker 3: continues today. And these are like teenagers, like or early
Speaker 3: twenty year olds. So there's all this kind of layers
Speaker 3: upon layers of people seeking safety through validation. And it's
Speaker 3: kind of sad because what results for Palestinians is that
Speaker 3: I think you've probably seen all these super clips online,
Speaker 3: and that is when Palestinians are brought on to news shows,
Speaker 3: they're not asked about if their families, okay, who they lost,
Speaker 3: what they fear. They're asked if they support terrorism, you
Speaker 3: can ask, yeah, exactly, and it's really and then some
Speaker 3: of the Palestinian guests and experts and journalists would say, oh,
Speaker 3: by the way, my uncle died and my nieces missing
Speaker 3: and XYZ, thanks for asking, know what I mean, and
Speaker 3: they would just go they would just pivot back to Amman,
Speaker 3: which is really it's it's really I can't imagine what
Speaker 3: that feels like to have to be to not only
Speaker 3: have to disavow things like I posted, I mean the
Speaker 3: other day it was an asteroid that was coming to
Speaker 3: Earth to destroy and I wrote, yeah, but do Palestinian
Speaker 3: support it? You know, like it's just like becoming this thing.
Speaker 3: We're just gross. And also when they do speak about
Speaker 3: anything with Israel and Palestine, a Palestinian has to be
Speaker 3: like a PhD in European anti semitism in order not
Speaker 3: to say something that's triggering and this, and I understand
Speaker 3: those triggers, but also there's almost zero grace for Palestinians
Speaker 3: to just even mourn or speak for their own security.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we get this article in the La Times over
Speaker 1: the weekend about how the left has really led us down.
Speaker 1: I mean that we've gotten this article over and over again.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, it's millennials are killing X industry. Is
Speaker 2: the left is really there this week it's this thing.
Speaker 1: And like they're going to be able to find anti
Speaker 1: semitism on the left because there's anti semitism everywhere, Like
Speaker 1: anti semitism is it is a huge problem. But in
Speaker 1: this context, as you're as you're there involved in this
Speaker 1: struggle for peace, it seems like you've seen something quite
Speaker 1: different from anti semitism being on the grid for these
Speaker 1: protests and these actions.
Speaker 3: We like to say peace and justice, right, like peace, Yeah,
Speaker 3: because like a lot of people, yeah, a lot of
Speaker 3: people define peace, and I think peace is the right word,
Speaker 3: but a lot of people have redefined peace to mean quiet,
Speaker 3: and like, you know, there's no there's no there's no
Speaker 3: rally as I can tell for Black Lives Matter right
Speaker 3: now on the streets. That's very large right now, But
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean there's peace, right there's still those things
Speaker 3: are still happening every day. So I guess I like
Speaker 3: to remind folks to also say just this part, because
Speaker 3: peace in Gaza is four hours of electricity a day,
Speaker 3: calorie counting by Israel to not allow too much food
Speaker 3: and water, limitations, a blockade around every well, note travel restrictions.
Speaker 3: It's just open air prison. And a lot of people
Speaker 3: define the day before that horrendous attack by Hamas on civilians,
Speaker 3: a lot of people define that that day before that
Speaker 3: it's peace. And yeah, anti Semitism. Yeah. Another thing is
Speaker 3: like it's very easy to kind of assume antisemitism is
Speaker 3: like in the water in the air, and it's really
Speaker 3: it's something that's manufactured by the right, and it was
Speaker 3: created by the right in Europe in order to remove
Speaker 3: to create, like a middle manager like to create. So
Speaker 3: the core of racism is this like supremacy, ethnic supremacy,
Speaker 3: and for example, the idea that someone exists like Martin
Speaker 3: Luther King or Nelson Mandela or something exists like black
Speaker 3: culture defining global culture for decades and decades, all of
Speaker 3: these amazing accomplishments, all the inventions, all the things, all
Speaker 3: the scientific breakthroughs that any black person does, negates the
Speaker 3: idea of white supremacy. So a useful tool to undo
Speaker 3: that is the idea of this mystical Jewish person. This
Speaker 3: Jewish person, be it Sorrows or whoever, is behind the
Speaker 3: success of black people. It's behind the migrant you know,
Speaker 3: like the idea that America is this immigrating beacons for
Speaker 3: immigration and all these things. And so it's a really
Speaker 3: useful tool to a redirect like financial pain and suffering
Speaker 3: from capitalism to a group of people, and also to
Speaker 3: protect the idea of the myth of white supremacy. And
Speaker 3: I guess, like what I'm seeing on the streets to
Speaker 3: your question, finally, what I'm seeing on the streets, I
Speaker 3: do see occasionally anti Semitic thing. I will see it,
Speaker 3: and then sometimes most of the time I'll call the
Speaker 3: person in and be like hey, like they'll be like
Speaker 3: the Jewish state. This is like what the Jewish state does.
Speaker 3: And I'll be like, well, do you mean the Israeli
Speaker 3: state or do you mean the Jewish state? And then
Speaker 3: they're like, oh, I didn't think about that. But had
Speaker 3: they said that in front of a New York Post reporter,
Speaker 3: that would be on the front page and would be
Speaker 3: used to define DSA, would be used to define anything
Speaker 3: and try to destroy the left. And what I saw
Speaker 3: in Israel there is an Arab town forget the name
Speaker 3: right now, there's an Arab town that after the attacks,
Speaker 3: welcomed Jewish refugees. And the history of that Arab town
Speaker 3: was it was one of it was the site of
Speaker 3: the most horrific massacre by Jews of Palestinians of Arabs
Speaker 3: in that town. And they still are opening their doors
Speaker 3: to the families affected by that attack by Hamas. You know,
Speaker 3: you're seeing these things on the street and you're you're
Speaker 3: basically going to find what you're looking for, right, And
Speaker 3: the question is what are you amplifying and what are
Speaker 3: you using to define an entire thing with?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I've seen how useful that sort of the
Speaker 2: left is anti Semitic, like that, how that take has
Speaker 2: been used by like establishment democrats and shit to completely
Speaker 2: try and take the wind out of the sails or
Speaker 2: question the validity of people pointing out that the ills
Speaker 2: of Palestinian people living under occupation and then just being
Speaker 2: able to sort of use this like thought killing cliche
Speaker 2: to be like, well, they're all anti Semitics, so let's
Speaker 2: now back to our person and on the ground from
Speaker 2: the IDF that is going to tell us exactly what's
Speaker 2: happening now. And yeah, like I see how like in
Speaker 2: a way, like for the establishment politics too, like this
Speaker 2: has been used to being like, oh, we can also
Speaker 2: sort of try and kneecap a movement as well by
Speaker 2: bringing it into this, you know, a very skewed perspective
Speaker 2: that they.
Speaker 3: Want to show absolutely absolutely. And also what I saw
Speaker 3: the difference in our protests, the Jewish ones, the police
Speaker 3: were like there and they they threw a lot of
Speaker 3: people around and did this stuff. But when I went
Speaker 3: to the Palestinian youth protest in front of the Israeli
Speaker 3: Embassy in DC on that Friday night, it was riot gear.
Speaker 3: It was cars parked in a way. There was also
Speaker 3: this guy infamous cop I forget his name, but he's
Speaker 3: known to have killed a BLM protester and he's just
Speaker 3: walking around like it was so different. And these were
Speaker 3: two kids, right, and it was it was wild that
Speaker 3: these kids in this little redsdential neighborhood of this very
Speaker 3: secure Israeli embassy were met with riot cops versus US
Speaker 3: in the heart of the power of the United States
Speaker 3: and the most sensitive part of the world. And we
Speaker 3: were just you know, singing into a bus, you know.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, let's take a quick break and we'll come back.
Speaker 3: We'll keep talking about this.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back and we're back and wrap.
Speaker 1: Something I saw you pointing out on social media is
Speaker 1: this idea that Hamas is a right wing organization.
Speaker 2: I think people.
Speaker 1: Understand that this Israeli government really favors settlers and you
Speaker 1: know what they call settlers or I guess what are
Speaker 1: called settlers, but like really just violent militarists stick intervention
Speaker 1: is a right wing government, and it it feels like
Speaker 1: we're being asked to choose between They're just like there's
Speaker 1: just these two right wing options and that's that's it.
Speaker 1: And we either side with one right wing option or
Speaker 1: you side with the other.
Speaker 2: And the whole that was kind of.
Speaker 1: Clarifying to me to just think about it as like, no, well,
Speaker 1: I've never in my life sided with the right wing
Speaker 1: option in any circumstance, like why should I start now?
Speaker 1: But it does feel like that is getting blacked out
Speaker 1: from the entire conversation.
Speaker 3: And I have to admit saying that they're a far
Speaker 3: right organization a it's not like an exact match to
Speaker 3: like European or Western far right. But also and it
Speaker 3: also does this thing of flattening the Palacinian resistance, which
Speaker 3: is greater than Hamas. There's a lot of groups and
Speaker 3: the most favorite group actually like people don't know their
Speaker 3: names and I don't even remember their names. But there
Speaker 3: are a lot of youth groups who show up without
Speaker 3: any kind of real ideology. It's more like a mutual
Speaker 3: aid kind of thing. And they have been springing up
Speaker 3: and going after soldiers and going after violent occupying soldiers
Speaker 3: and going after violent settlers and getting killed like more
Speaker 3: than anyone. And those are the ones that are the
Speaker 3: most popular fighters, resistance fighters by Palestinians, not these groups.
Speaker 3: Not to say these groups don't have the port like
Speaker 3: even in Ukraine, the azov As we know the Azov
Speaker 3: Battalion has their neo Nazi past and present, and people
Speaker 3: also have this struggle of like hey, they're like, you know,
Speaker 3: they've lost the most lives, they fought the most battles,
Speaker 3: they've won the most battles with Russia. Let's just park
Speaker 3: this this ship until, you know, including the Jewish president.
Speaker 3: So like there's this complexity that I always kind of think,
Speaker 3: like what if like some a super alien force came
Speaker 3: and started bombing queens and like some proud boys were
Speaker 3: like handing them their ass. I might chill out for
Speaker 3: like a day or two against the problem. I don't know,
Speaker 3: like I know what I would do in these situations.
Speaker 3: But yeah, like so, and it wasn't just Hamas in
Speaker 3: those in that breach of Gaza prison. It was other groups.
Speaker 3: In fact, you hear a lot of stories from from
Speaker 3: Israelis who, no matter what the news was trying to
Speaker 3: make them say, they were saying no. This person entered
Speaker 3: my house. He asked for the keys to the car,
Speaker 3: and we told him like there's no gas, and he's like,
Speaker 3: I'll take and he took the car. Or he asked
Speaker 3: for a banana and we gave him a banana and
Speaker 3: he left, and they seem a lot of them seemed
Speaker 3: just really hungry, like you. There's all these testimonies that
Speaker 3: they don't play in English in the US that they
Speaker 3: play in Israel all the time, including like to be fair,
Speaker 3: like including there's stories of a Palestinian person in Israel
Speaker 3: using an image of the kidnap grandma to sell pizzas,
Speaker 3: you know, it's like a meme and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: and like Israel bulldozed their pizzeria in response. You know,
Speaker 3: there's everything you want to find, you will look for
Speaker 3: in any kind of thing, you know. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 3: not defining all the things right.
Speaker 1: I've heard some people say that Western media is actually
Speaker 1: like more right wing, like further to the right than
Speaker 1: Israeli media.
Speaker 3: Even absolutely the things that I would read from even
Speaker 3: a right wing book or like a centric's book, like
Speaker 3: Benny Morris and all these other historians in Israel, Amos
Speaker 3: oz poets, like all of these Israeli hardcore that they
Speaker 3: served in the military, even Prime Minister that I could
Speaker 3: repeat something the prime ministers of Israel said or the
Speaker 3: heads of security has said, and if I say that
Speaker 3: in the United States, I would be called antisthematic for
Speaker 3: those things. They say, if I was Palestinian, I would
Speaker 3: do the same thing Palestinian. These are people who became
Speaker 3: prime minister, they say, are the head. There's a there's
Speaker 3: a great documentary everyone should watch everybody. It's called Gatekeepers.
Speaker 3: It's Israeli and there's English subtitles, and all it does
Speaker 3: is is interviews the heads of shin Bet, which is
Speaker 3: like the biggest security agency over decadeses all of their
Speaker 3: heads minus one or something, and they all what they say,
Speaker 3: these like hardcore people that like their living was torturing
Speaker 3: people for information, and they're saying, there's no military solution
Speaker 3: to this, ever, and what's going to happen is we're
Speaker 3: going to destroy our country. We're going to destroy any
Speaker 3: hope of democracy, and it's going to be like a
Speaker 3: far right religious like theocracy. If you do this's you know,
Speaker 3: like all of them say. Ariel Sharon wore criminal on
Speaker 3: his death bed said something to the to the like
Speaker 3: of you know, we have to choose this or we're
Speaker 3: going to lose Israel. We have to choose a negotiated
Speaker 3: settlement or we lose everything, like and then when you
Speaker 3: repeat those kind of things in the US, you're anti Semitic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think another part that I've only like
Speaker 2: sort of recently started seeing more and more, like I
Speaker 2: think there's been as this whole, you know, this conflict unfolded,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of people were like, well, you
Speaker 2: gotta go back to this, you gotta go back to here,
Speaker 2: you gotta go back to the UN or you got
Speaker 2: to go back to the fact that Europeans and the
Speaker 2: United States didn't know what to do with these Jewish
Speaker 2: people and probably didn't want to repatriate a lot of
Speaker 2: these people for you know, as we've learned from past guests,
Speaker 2: like the amount of businesses that were just absorbed by.
Speaker 4: People when Jewish people were fleeing Western Europe during World
Speaker 4: War Two and things like that. But another point that
Speaker 4: I think isn't discussed enough, but we would talk about
Speaker 4: on the show, especially at the time when the US
Speaker 4: Embassy was moved to Jerusalem, and like Mike Pompeo was
Speaker 4: like so giddy about this that then there are a
Speaker 4: few people were like, there's actually if you go further back,
Speaker 4: there is this relationship between especially like well it's more
Speaker 4: specifically in the United States, like these Christian evangelicals in
Speaker 4: the United States in the US specifically, but obviously this
Speaker 4: is a larger thing that goes back centuries. But the
Speaker 4: idea of how the support is always intertwined with the
Speaker 4: idea of the end times coming, and it's when people
Speaker 4: are always like, well, why would they let this happen?
Speaker 4: Or why are they looking the other way?
Speaker 2: And a lot of people are saying, like all the time,
Speaker 2: you'd see people who are experts in this field or
Speaker 2: come from these communities say, you, guys don't understand like this,
Speaker 2: the like Israel becoming a country is a lot of
Speaker 2: people see that as a prophecy fulfilled on the way
Speaker 2: to bring back like the you know, the return of Christ.
Speaker 2: But this goes back centuries and I know that you you,
Speaker 2: I've seen you post like things that are sort of
Speaker 2: in this realm too, But is like, I mean, how
Speaker 2: much how much awareness do you think, like in general
Speaker 2: there is around that because I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people look at it as like, obviously the United States
Speaker 2: is providing the munitions to the Israeli govern but there's
Speaker 2: also like these there's these underpinnings of this theocratic just
Speaker 2: hardlineer stuff about being like yeah, the rapture, this this
Speaker 2: has like a dual purpose.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many interests here. There's like weapons manufacturers
Speaker 3: who love the existence of Gaza, you know, because they
Speaker 3: can toy, they can play and research new weapons and
Speaker 3: have like a real life battlefield, which is what they're
Speaker 3: trying to build in cop City, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: Like this kind of like practice arena, and except in
Speaker 3: Israel that practice arena is like actual human beings. There's
Speaker 3: this guy who's a really good historian. I wish he
Speaker 3: had more followers, but he really touches on this really well.
Speaker 3: He's on Instagram as a m o y a l
Speaker 3: Amyl Ri Moyal and he does a really good video,
Speaker 3: really going long form, breaking down the Zionism before Jews
Speaker 3: spoke about it, and there is like a link, a
Speaker 3: direct link to right wing Christian evangelical kind of folks
Speaker 3: and in the UK, and he makes the case like,
Speaker 3: you know, the UK decided to offer us a homeland
Speaker 3: at the expense of Palestinians, and the question is like why,
Speaker 3: Like the UK at that time and even a lot
Speaker 3: of time today is one of the most anti Semitic countries,
Speaker 3: the most casual anti semitism in the world, and why
Speaker 3: would they just end over this valuable piece of strategic
Speaker 3: land to just a bunch of refugees from Europe. And
Speaker 3: the answer is that there are very powerful people who
Speaker 3: have this interest of end times and they are giddy
Speaker 3: to the other day, I was listening to radio and
Speaker 3: New York City there was something it's a signal that's
Speaker 3: taken from another town, because when they do the weather,
Speaker 3: it's all off. I don't know where, but it's called
Speaker 3: the Bridge. And I think there's a podcast the British
Speaker 3: Christian Radio or something like that. They were gidy. They
Speaker 3: are if you turn any like evangelical like Christian radio
Speaker 3: right now. They are so happy and basically their plan
Speaker 3: is coming together and that is death and destruction for
Speaker 3: people who are not Christian, and Jew's dying and people
Speaker 3: converting and Jesus coming back, and there is a very
Speaker 3: much straight line. Like Zionism spiritually means a lot of things,
Speaker 3: like we at every prayer, at every dinner, we talk
Speaker 3: about or in holidays we talk about going back to Israel,
Speaker 3: and a lot of people read that in many different ways,
Speaker 3: like I'm from Uzbekistan as a Jew there in this
Speaker 3: ancient society, like we when we said we were called Israel.
Speaker 3: So our actually we weren't called Bujarians. We're called Buarians
Speaker 3: because a white man found the first of us in
Speaker 3: a town called Buhara and decided this is a Buhari
Speaker 3: and now forever we're called Buarians because of its white traveler.
Speaker 3: But we were always called Israel. We were called Esareel.
Speaker 3: So when we said esil, we meant us where we are,
Speaker 3: where we're home. And you know, there is a lot
Speaker 3: of tradition about that. I could go into on a
Speaker 3: whole other show. But the spiritual meaning has many This
Speaker 3: is why a lot of Jews are so even human
Speaker 3: rights caring Jews are so triggered with even the term
Speaker 3: anti Zionism and all these things. It's just wound up
Speaker 3: in so much of our Even that wedding song we
Speaker 3: were singing on the bus protesting Israel. We're singing on
Speaker 3: the bus. It has a reference to Israel in the song.
Speaker 3: You know. So there's a lot of contradictions.
Speaker 2: Right right, because I think a lot of people also
Speaker 2: underrate like just how you know, there's like a group
Speaker 2: called Christians Unified for Israel that has like a lot
Speaker 2: of sway, especially within the Republican Party.
Speaker 3: People talk about APAC all the time, but actually the
Speaker 3: biggest thunders are Christian Zionists as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's and a lot of people
Speaker 2: are like, well, I don't like, you know, I think
Speaker 2: it really became clear, especially right after the embassy was moved,
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump at a rally was like, yeah, he's like,
Speaker 2: you think the like people would be excited about it.
Speaker 2: He's like the evangelicals, they're actually more they're more excited
Speaker 2: than the Jewish people about this.
Speaker 3: And oh yeah, he's always lambasting on us. He's always
Speaker 3: saying we're not returning the favor and right, yeah, and
Speaker 3: he's saying the Christians and are the ones who are.
Speaker 2: Grateful, right, and now we're like and now, like to
Speaker 2: a certain point, I'm like, okay, well I'm glad, Like,
Speaker 2: you know, Pompeo and Pence obviously like aren't part of
Speaker 2: the mechanic, the mechanical, the machinery of the government, but.
Speaker 4: We still it's still a huge force to be reckoned with.
Speaker 4: And I know Joe Biden, like one of his like
Speaker 4: sort of community outreach people he had during the transition
Speaker 4: comes from this like evangelical Wow, yeah, so like you
Speaker 4: see that like there's still there's like a consistency to
Speaker 4: all this, and now like as I see and watch
Speaker 4: what the president is doing now, I'm yeah, like I mean,
Speaker 4: I'm he's he's pretty consistently been saying like yeah, no,
Speaker 4: it's like no matter what this is, this is what
Speaker 4: we're going to stand with Israel. But as but I'm
Speaker 4: always curious to see, like especially when you see people
Speaker 4: in the streets like saying this is not what we want,
Speaker 4: not in our name, or we cannot repeat the mistakes
Speaker 4: that we did like in nine to eleven with immediately
Speaker 4: just jumping to conclusions and like unleashing just unrestrained wrath.
Speaker 4: Like how he like how even this administration is looking
Speaker 4: at it and like what they're even calculus is you
Speaker 4: know what I mean, Because I'm like, yeah, this is
Speaker 4: a lot of people that voted for you. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of people that you gave them the binary of
Speaker 4: like well you know, it's the lesser of two evils
Speaker 4: or like I'll hold my nose. But now with increased
Speaker 4: resistance to what is happening, I'm I'm just like, really
Speaker 4: that's also just I see how further things can ravel
Speaker 4: even domestically.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's it's like uncharted territory. With Biden,
Speaker 3: it seems like he could he could pass something and
Speaker 3: it's going to create a climate, core of workers, and
Speaker 3: it's going to be like this amazing thing that we
Speaker 3: never thought any president would do. And then on this side,
Speaker 3: he took forever even just to mention Palestinians and lied
Speaker 3: about like the beheaded baby story and other things. I
Speaker 3: really don't know, Like it's just like it's so uncharted
Speaker 3: to me what to expect. But it's like anything is
Speaker 3: up from this because it's so dire. But I am
Speaker 3: moved though. I am moved because if you do see people,
Speaker 3: they are taking stands. During when we did the White
Speaker 3: House thing, if not Now, we steeled every if not
Speaker 3: now people field every entrance and exit. There's so many
Speaker 3: of them, more than a dozen, and Secret Service and
Speaker 3: everyone came to arrest them. And during that moment inside
Speaker 3: the White House, there are there were people who signed
Speaker 3: an internal letter who agree with us. While we're screaming
Speaker 3: on the streets, Joe Biden's opening up his email and
Speaker 3: his a is reading like a letter from his own
Speaker 3: staff protesting his position. Same thing with Staffers in Congress
Speaker 3: have written up hundreds and have written internal letters and stuff,
Speaker 3: and people are resigning all over the country from their companies,
Speaker 3: from agencies and also getting fired. There's a young woman
Speaker 3: who got fired from CIA recently for her stance. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think what they I think that they
Speaker 2: posted something as like innocuous, as like we're starting to
Speaker 2: see who supports genocide? Yeah that, And I think that's
Speaker 2: when we've been saying this, like for the last few weeks,
Speaker 2: the landscape has so become so hostile towards any sort
Speaker 2: of utterance of like a resolution like if it's not
Speaker 2: a full throated support of like yeah, they have the
Speaker 2: right to defend themselves no matter what. If that's not
Speaker 2: the take, like then you see a lot of.
Speaker 3: It's interesting is when they do speak like that, especially
Speaker 3: off the cuff, when they say like we must do
Speaker 3: what's necessary because you know whatever, and if it's innocent people,
Speaker 3: it's innocent people, but we have to get blah blah blah,
Speaker 3: and that's that's what they chose. They say, so like
Speaker 3: Israelis are saying that the Israeli military hawks are saying
Speaker 3: they chose Hamas even though that election was like almost
Speaker 3: two decades ago whatever, But like that, they chose Hamas
Speaker 3: and therefore they deserve it. But that's also what Hamas
Speaker 3: said when they went into those settlements, those towns. This
Speaker 3: is not defense of them, but those towns where they
Speaker 3: were invading, invading, were quote invading but also invading. They
Speaker 3: those were the forms. So Gaza, the existence of Gaza
Speaker 3: is ethnic cleansing. So it's these Palisines used to live
Speaker 3: all across Palestine Israel, and now they're pushed in there
Speaker 3: and remove the right to vote. So that's literally the
Speaker 3: existence of Gaza itself is already ethnic cleansing. So there's
Speaker 3: really no debate. So they actually Hamas says the same thing,
Speaker 3: and al Qaeda said the same thing when they did
Speaker 3: the towers. They said that we voted for Bush and
Speaker 3: others who who are bombing Arabs and the thing and
Speaker 3: al Kaid are awful evil. Of course we have to
Speaker 3: say that is that a hunting right But but but
Speaker 3: they they said the same thing. So I'm wondering, like
Speaker 3: why are all these right wingers are saying the same thing,
Speaker 3: and how how they're all benefiting from each other. They're
Speaker 3: literally feeding each other and we're all on the sidelines,
Speaker 3: like oh my god, and having to choose a side
Speaker 3: between all of them.
Speaker 1: To your point, yeah, I still feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't understand like some of the things that
Speaker 1: you've made reference to, like the calorie limits, the electricity limits,
Speaker 1: the shutting off of fresh water, and like the people
Speaker 1: of guys that can't just leave like that, that's that's
Speaker 1: the thing that I like people who don't follows who
Speaker 1: are like, well, why don't they just leave then?
Speaker 2: And it's like out of which exit, which which which
Speaker 2: exit are used to? They're not a bomb.
Speaker 1: And even before like they're not allowed to leave for
Speaker 1: like cancer healthcare, like for you know, they're not allowed
Speaker 1: to leave and like that it is the definition of
Speaker 1: an open air prison. But you know, and just a
Speaker 1: Muslim person I know recently said to me that, like
Speaker 1: when we get these like mainstream communications from organizations like
Speaker 1: we stand with Israel communications as Israel is just indiscriminately
Speaker 1: bombing innocent people and children in Gaza, They're like it
Speaker 1: feels like this won't stop until they put all the
Speaker 1: brown people in a concentration camp like the like, and
Speaker 1: I the US has had a prison for brown people,
Speaker 1: that is a war crime like in Cuba for the
Speaker 1: past twenty two years, that like it's this is not imaginary,
Speaker 1: like it's happening right now to them, right like, And
Speaker 1: I just ask like people who are having trouble with
Speaker 1: coming around to the position of peace to like try
Speaker 1: and view things from the perspective of somebody who has
Speaker 1: lived through the past twenty two years in this country
Speaker 1: and then that this is this is happening. You know,
Speaker 1: that's let alone, like the people who have lived in
Speaker 1: an open air prison and an apartheid state for you know,
Speaker 1: over Dame.
Speaker 3: I don't know how much time we have, but like
Speaker 3: there is something that would be useful to help decode.
Speaker 3: And one of that is like a lot of this
Speaker 3: is like at least in the Jewish community and people
Speaker 3: who want to stand with us, are these triggers, And
Speaker 3: one of them is like there's all these like interpretations.
Speaker 3: So like when someone goes to a rally and someone
Speaker 3: screams from the river to the sea, a lot of
Speaker 3: people get triggered, and really you should follow up and
Speaker 3: ask what that means. And usually the answer is everyone
Speaker 3: should have a vote, Like it's really even the one
Speaker 3: that they try to make into a monster, into this
Speaker 3: evil super whatever left kind of thing BDS, which is
Speaker 3: boycott divest campaign, which is the single most unified thing
Speaker 3: that Palestinian civil society demands. This is when when you
Speaker 3: say what should we do for Palestine, it shouldn't be
Speaker 3: what Americans are saying or Jews are saying. It should
Speaker 3: be what Palaestinians are saying, and Palasinians are saying, Boycott,
Speaker 3: divest from from until we all have one person, one vote,
Speaker 3: which is just like the most basic line kind of
Speaker 3: human rights thing. It's not it's not radical at all.
Speaker 3: It's not scary at all. What is scary to people
Speaker 3: is and it's understandable too. It's not sometimes like it's
Speaker 3: either you want to choose villains or whatever. But I
Speaker 3: can't look at my uncle who's great on everything and
Speaker 3: problematic on Israel and say he's a monster. But he's
Speaker 3: confused and he's afraid that there's going to be another
Speaker 3: time that Jews don't have self determination. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 3: and there's there's ways to fight self determination, fight for
Speaker 3: democracy where you are. That's one point. There's also models
Speaker 3: for multinational, multi ethnic date kind of things that you
Speaker 3: could do with Israel. There's you know, it's just like
Speaker 3: a lot of this is emotional and triggering and actually
Speaker 3: solvable with conversations like I've had those conversations. It's actually fixable.
Speaker 1: Well, raf thank you so much for coming on to
Speaker 1: talk to us about this. Thank you for all the
Speaker 1: work that you're putting in, and yeah, we really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: We'd love to have you back.
Speaker 3: Thank you all back on, and thank you for the
Speaker 3: cheery inch. I love your beginnings of all your shows.
Speaker 3: It just they always make me happy. The shouting, the
Speaker 3: corny morning zoo vibe. I love it so much. And
Speaker 3: this is the first time I like laughed like this
Speaker 3: and smiled in a while.
Speaker 1: So thank you, Thanks well, thank you. Where can people
Speaker 1: find you? Follow you all that good stuff.
Speaker 3: You can find me at Rafael Shimanov on Twitter, at
Speaker 3: Rafternoon on Instagram. And you said, definitely if you're Jewish
Speaker 3: out there, sign up for either. If not now, if
Speaker 3: that's your vibe or Jewish voice or peace, check them
Speaker 3: both out. And if you're not, all the fights are connected.
Speaker 3: Find your local grassroots, find your local mutual aid group.
Speaker 3: It's important. You're gonna need these connections when things get worse,
Speaker 3: and things are gonna get better, but they're gonna get
Speaker 3: worse first. And thanks everyone.
Speaker 1: Is there a work media that you've been enjoying?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's this thing that I have pinned to
Speaker 3: my top tweet. So if you go to Twitter and
Speaker 3: you find me, there's this Morgan who's one of my
Speaker 3: friends who I was arrested with in New York and
Speaker 3: it was one of the It went and it went wild.
Speaker 3: They got like eleven million views, like right away, because
Speaker 3: people are so hungry to see people just speaking truth.
Speaker 3: And it was him in the crowd in front of
Speaker 3: like the in the park in front of Chuck Schumer's house,
Speaker 3: like stating the case and revving up the audience and
Speaker 3: revving up the activists and also distracting the police from
Speaker 3: our other action is going in front of his house
Speaker 3: with his beautiful speech, and you have to watch it.
Speaker 3: You have to see the energy and the hurt that
Speaker 3: he's feeling. And also, like the contract, it's hard to speak.
Speaker 3: You don't want to make it sound like it's about us,
Speaker 3: because it's not about us, like we're part of this,
Speaker 3: but it's about Palestinians and we should be talking. We
Speaker 3: should be lifting up Palestinians as as much as we
Speaker 3: can to talk on this everywhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Miles, where can people find you? Is there a
Speaker 1: working media you've been enjoying?
Speaker 2: Yeah, at Miles of Gray and all that at place
Speaker 2: is a basketball podcast, Miles, Jackot mad BOOSTI podcast for
Speaker 2: twenty day fiancees. Let's see a tweet I like is
Speaker 2: from rob at okay, but still tweeted this is This
Speaker 2: is from like earlier in the year, tweeted female therapist.
Speaker 4: Your friend with a fat, ugly baby will have to
Speaker 4: accept that your truth is your truth.
Speaker 2: Male therapist. Yeah, it sounds like the medication isn't working
Speaker 2: at all. But to go back to something you said
Speaker 2: flips notes last time, uh q doba is mid I
Speaker 2: want to challenge you on that.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good.
Speaker 2: Uh tweet I've been enjoying.
Speaker 1: Dylan Glula tweeted at some point during Planet Earth, David
Speaker 1: Attenborough should assure you that you won't be this high forever.
Speaker 5: And.
Speaker 3: I was hoping there was an impression.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore. O'Brien,
Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're
Speaker 1: at d Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook
Speaker 1: fanpage and a website, Daily zeitgeist dot com, where we
Speaker 1: post our episodes and our footnote where we link off
Speaker 1: to the information that we talked about in today's episode,
Speaker 1: as well as a song that we think you might enjoy.
Speaker 1: Myles is their song that you think people might enjoy it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is soothing instrumental music.
Speaker 2: It sounds like you're like if there was a Speak easy,
Speaker 2: but the jukebox only played like menu music from a
Speaker 2: Nintendo or game Boy game. This track is called Lata
Speaker 2: and it's by this artist, Frankie Reyes, and he plays
Speaker 2: like a OG like synthesizer and uses MIDI But this
Speaker 2: like but he's a great like well he's just a
Speaker 2: great musician. But the but the esthetic of it is
Speaker 2: so like eight bit like video game music. It's really
Speaker 2: I don't know, this is really cool. So you know,
Speaker 2: take a break, listen to this track by Frankie Reyes.
Speaker 1: All right, we will link off to that in the footnotes.
Speaker 1: The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio Wrap, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite show that is
Speaker 1: going to do it for us this morning, back this
Speaker 1: afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we'll talk
Speaker 1: to you all then.
Speaker 2: Bye bye,