Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: Hey, Dream listeners, please stick around after this for a
Speaker 2: bonus episode that you won't want to miss. Previously on
Speaker 2: the Dream.
Speaker 3: The night before this hike or walk, whatever she wants
Speaker 3: to call it, happened, they were told to prioritize rest.
Speaker 1: And I started getting bt.
Speaker 3: I'm like what, And then this person starts to mention, well,
Speaker 3: I have diabetes. I gotta check my blood sugar and
Speaker 3: Sasha I look.
Speaker 1: At each other like nobody mentioned diabetes.
Speaker 3: Like we might actually kill people on this trip, Like
Speaker 3: we literally thought that.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, And I know this
Speaker 1: is a fifteen hour situation. Guys, for fifteen hours. Get started. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I was getting a little spicy.
Speaker 2: Glorias Swanson, star of Sunset Boulevard and a million other movies,
Speaker 2: had a conversation with Mike Wallace back in nineteen fifty
Speaker 2: seven where she took a kind of roundabout way of
Speaker 2: saying where I've been and what I think we've all
Speaker 2: been feeling about the state of the world and our
Speaker 2: place in it lately.
Speaker 4: Let us take the Roaring twenties, you know, the Roaring twenties.
Speaker 2: That was all over the world.
Speaker 4: It wasn't just in a little tiny spot out there
Speaker 4: in California. Gaiety and a sense of freedom and abandonment
Speaker 4: was everywhere in the world, and everybody seemed to have
Speaker 4: a feeling of freedom that doesn't exist today. Now there's pressures,
Speaker 4: there are higher taxes, there are other concerns.
Speaker 1: There is perhaps more conformity.
Speaker 4: Yes, I think so, I mean much more. For instance,
Speaker 4: this is now the United States is a country of
Speaker 4: do it yourself. Well, I'm so exhausted from doing it
Speaker 4: myself right now that I had to go to a
Speaker 4: hospital to lie down. Somebody said I had a nervous breakdown.
Speaker 4: They said I had I don't know, hurt my legs,
Speaker 4: something else, something else. But I went there because I
Speaker 4: was exhausted doing everything myself.
Speaker 2: Me too, Gloria. Nowadays we're not even allowed to take
Speaker 2: grippy socks vacations by choice. She never knew how good
Speaker 2: she had it at any rate. I agree with her.
Speaker 2: Something has gone awry in the story we tell ourselves
Speaker 2: about being American, and it's been hard to find the
Speaker 2: right person or group to be mad at about things
Speaker 2: as giant as capitalism or meritocracy or bootstrap thinking. The
Speaker 2: hardest workers reaping the highest rewards. It's a total sham,
Speaker 2: but it's like a religion here, something you must have
Speaker 2: faith in because if it isn't true, at least you
Speaker 2: worked hard, and if it is true, you win. I
Speaker 2: guess I'm mad at all of us for keeping up
Speaker 2: this facade, and I'm mad at the self help and
Speaker 2: coaching industry for repackaging the idea and selling it back
Speaker 2: to us as empowerment and you know, like fulfilling our
Speaker 2: own personal manifest destinies. But it's boring to listen to
Speaker 2: someone fight with an entire ideology most people adhere to right.
Speaker 2: Lucky for me, one person came forward during our reporting
Speaker 2: I could point my ir at.
Speaker 1: So I'm jesse Lee Ward.
Speaker 2: Jesse Lee Ward from episode one, the business coach who
Speaker 2: took a bunch of her paying clients on a hike
Speaker 2: in Columbia that was only supposed to be two hours
Speaker 2: but lasted forever.
Speaker 3: Some people know me as Bossley or the People's mentor
Speaker 3: you know. But at any rate, So I do a
Speaker 3: lot of things, sure, but I am the number one
Speaker 3: network marketer in the world. I also have an education
Speaker 3: company where I do coach entrepreneurs how to build and
Speaker 3: scale their businesses, and I'm a dog mom. Most importantly,
Speaker 3: I'm gidding out, but I'm just a serial entrepreneur really,
Speaker 3: and I guess that's the easiest way to say it.
Speaker 3: And then I'll let you take the conversation wherever you live.
Speaker 2: After we heard the story about the Colombian expedition, jesse
Speaker 2: Lee took her coaching clients on. We put a request
Speaker 2: in through her office for an interview. In the request,
Speaker 2: we named our show, talked about our previous seasons, and
Speaker 2: sent them links. Months went by, and then one day,
Speaker 2: miracle happened. They wrote us back and said yes, she
Speaker 2: would give us an interview, with a condition. They said
Speaker 2: we could only have thirty minutes of her time for free,
Speaker 2: and if we go over, she would have to charge us,
Speaker 2: which I don't know if you know, but I can't
Speaker 2: pay people to be on this show. It's unethical. So
Speaker 2: we said no, we're good with thirty even though I'm not,
Speaker 2: and sent him a release which explains that the interview
Speaker 2: will be used for this show, The Dream. It took
Speaker 2: them a minute, but the morning of the interview they
Speaker 2: finally sent a signed copy. We were good to go.
Speaker 2: I was going to speak with the boss Lee, and
Speaker 2: I was a wreck about it. See, recently, jesse Lee
Speaker 2: announced that she's been diagnosed with cancer, a scary one.
Speaker 2: She talks about it a lot on social media, and
Speaker 2: in the hours leading up to our chat, I had
Speaker 2: the kind of anxiety that makes you poop. Like. I
Speaker 2: was pretty suspicious of her, didn't love her vibe from
Speaker 2: what I'd seen and heard. But no one wants to
Speaker 2: be mean to a cancer patient, you know. So I
Speaker 2: was a knots just trying to psyche myself up to
Speaker 2: be cheery while also holding her to account. So I
Speaker 2: did a few little cries, cooped again, and then got
Speaker 2: on the call. So, yeah, we're going to talk about
Speaker 2: coaching and a little bit about MLMs and stuff today.
Speaker 2: But I just wanted to let you know before we
Speaker 2: get started here that if there's a question you don't
Speaker 2: want to answer, or don't have an answer to, or
Speaker 2: don't know what I'm talking about, we can just move
Speaker 2: right on.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm pretty open, so I'm not too worried about it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I have twenty eight minutes left in our
Speaker 2: conversation to see about that. So what does number one
Speaker 2: network marketer in the world mean or how do you
Speaker 2: measure that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, so, first of all that I know of,
Speaker 3: at least reported, I am the highest earner in network marketing,
Speaker 3: which is how some people would say is some people
Speaker 3: would say is the most important. I actually don't think
Speaker 3: that's the most important metric to measure something like that.
Speaker 3: I think it's more important to pay attention to the
Speaker 3: influence that somebody has. So all of the biggest stages
Speaker 3: and have been now for six years straight, so I
Speaker 3: have a lot of influence over the actual profession itself.
Speaker 3: And then and I guess I'm just kind of really
Speaker 3: well known, so that could also just be where that
Speaker 3: comes from. But I'm sort of the face of the profession,
Speaker 3: so I think that's where that comes from.
Speaker 2: Have you always been like this, like did you want
Speaker 2: to be president growing up or anything like that. I
Speaker 2: find that a lot of people who make it big
Speaker 2: in some field have just been born that way.
Speaker 3: I never wanted to be president. Leadership came, I think
Speaker 3: from being thrust into leadership more than oh I was
Speaker 3: a bond lead off. I don't think I can agree
Speaker 3: with that so much. But here I am vice president
Speaker 3: of my network marketing company, almost president of the world now.
Speaker 1: I'm kidding.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me how you got thrust into that
Speaker 2: other career? Like, what was the day or a moment
Speaker 2: where it was like, oh, now you have to get
Speaker 2: on stage.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my first timing on stage. It really was a
Speaker 3: thrust into kind of thing. It was one of these
Speaker 3: things where the CEO of a company said, what are
Speaker 3: you doing? Why is your business growing so fast? I
Speaker 3: want you to speak at this regional event. And I
Speaker 3: was like, sprink at a regional event. I don't know
Speaker 3: how to speak at a regional event, but luckily I had.
Speaker 3: In the college I went to, you had to take
Speaker 3: public speaking as a semester. Everybody had to, and most
Speaker 3: people had panic attacks when they had to do public
Speaker 3: speaking one on one.
Speaker 1: And I rather liked it. I thought it was pretty cool.
Speaker 3: I liked the idea of writing speeches and you know,
Speaker 3: the voice inflections and adding the humor, and watching the
Speaker 3: audience pay attention instead of boring them and feeding off
Speaker 3: their energy and all of this. I think empathic people
Speaker 3: can be really really good at public speaking. So and
Speaker 3: then I became a corporate trainer and I got to
Speaker 3: kind of travel the world doing that. Not the world,
Speaker 3: what am I talking about I got to travel Tennessee
Speaker 3: and Ohio and Indiana doing.
Speaker 1: Doing that, you know, just like in small town USA basically.
Speaker 3: And then I started getting asked from big companies that
Speaker 3: weren't even in the network marketing space. Hey, would you
Speaker 3: come speak for my company?
Speaker 1: Hi?
Speaker 3: I heard that you can scale businesses. Hey, I heard
Speaker 3: you're the social media girl who's unbelievable. Can you teach us?
Speaker 3: He teach my company how to grow social media? Hey?
Speaker 3: And I just kept saying yes, and people would pay
Speaker 3: and pay and pay and pay and pay. And I
Speaker 3: started realizing, whoa, I'm really good at this and people
Speaker 3: get a lot of results doing this, and people ask
Speaker 3: me constantly.
Speaker 1: Will you coach me? Will you coach me? Will you
Speaker 1: coach me?
Speaker 3: And I said to you, am I a coach? Good lord?
Speaker 3: But I love it. It's really turned into a huge
Speaker 3: passion project. I'm kind of obsessed with it.
Speaker 2: Are you expensive?
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I actually know I'm underpriced. I'm
Speaker 3: pretty underpriced. I'm really underpriced according to my coach.
Speaker 1: So I should raise my prices. That's a good time.
Speaker 2: I'm the person always telling people to raise their praises.
Speaker 2: When I found out what my coach was charging me.
Speaker 2: I was like, that's not enough, Like yeah, eighty five
Speaker 2: dollars an hour or something. I was like, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: What do you what? Wow? And I understand. I'm I'm
Speaker 2: hurting myself here by telling you you're not charging enough.
Speaker 3: But no, I actually appreciate you even saying that, Like,
Speaker 3: I love this conversation. This is an important conversation for
Speaker 3: people to hear. So it's like, I really truly believe
Speaker 3: that you get what you pay for anything. So and
Speaker 3: it's stupid. It's almost stupid what I'm about to say.
Speaker 3: I know that I pay my coach thirty thousand dollars
Speaker 3: an hour exactly. Okay, so I know, but I'm talking
Speaker 3: about the results I get from having this guy coach me. Okay,
Speaker 3: it's ridiculous. It's like I'm able to tap into the network.
Speaker 3: I'm able to tap into his brain. I'm able to
Speaker 3: tap into his expertise. He's built things that I've wanted
Speaker 3: to build, and he and he helps and he guides me.
Speaker 3: It's a time machine. You know, you don't know how
Speaker 3: much time you have on this earth. Nobody does, so
Speaker 3: why you did daddling around wasting your time time trying
Speaker 3: to figure everything out when you're staring at somebody who's
Speaker 3: done exactly what you want to do, hire them.
Speaker 2: All right, So we're chatting, and I assume that jesse
Speaker 2: Lee knew what show she was on, since we'd sent
Speaker 2: her a bunch of information about it. But it became
Speaker 2: clear as soon as I asked the next question she
Speaker 2: had no idea who she was talking to. I. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm just to be completely transparent. I have a book
Speaker 2: coming out in March on Atria, and I have this
Speaker 2: show where I talk a lot about ONTA MLM stuff,
Speaker 2: mostly just the why does this industry exist? Where like
Speaker 2: no one really makes any money, but people just keep
Speaker 2: signing up anyway, Like it seems like the dominant narrative
Speaker 2: should be like the true narrative. Would you just give
Speaker 2: me your take on the industry, because you said you're
Speaker 2: a real proponent of it.
Speaker 1: Sure, I love your honesty and saying that off the bat. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I think it's like anything, you know.
Speaker 3: I think some people are going to suck at everything
Speaker 3: they try to do except for what they're made to do,
Speaker 3: and then some people are going to be great at it.
Speaker 3: I also think not everybody has work ethic, but they
Speaker 3: want to compare things like they do. I don't think
Speaker 3: everybody has talent. I don't think everybody has skill sets.
Speaker 3: I don't think everybody's willing to learn. And that's not
Speaker 3: just network marketing. So it's like I look at waiting tables.
Speaker 3: Why was I the waitress that could always make way
Speaker 3: more money than everybody else. Well, I was personal, I
Speaker 3: was likable. I got to know people. I was smiling,
Speaker 3: I was charismatic. I got to know the menu better.
Speaker 3: I would upsell, I would cross sell, I would take
Speaker 3: extra shifts. I would do what people weren't willing to do.
Speaker 1: Well, I look at how I'm going to be in
Speaker 1: network marketing. I joined.
Speaker 3: I said, oh, one percent of people can make a
Speaker 3: million dollars a year. I'm going to be the person
Speaker 3: six million dollars a year. I put in more hours,
Speaker 3: I went to more events, I took more trainings. I
Speaker 3: spent a lot more time. I made a lot more sacrifices.
Speaker 3: I got in all the right rooms, I did all
Speaker 3: the right things. I treated it like a business. And
Speaker 3: so I look at a lot of people who join
Speaker 3: network marketing, and the big problem with network marketing is
Speaker 3: it's an even playing field. Nobody asks any questions. They
Speaker 3: just say, oh, hey, you have seven hundred dollars, you're qualified.
Speaker 2: So can I ask about your style of coaching? I've
Speaker 2: watched a lot of your videos and I feel like
Speaker 2: your style is I don't want to say agro, but
Speaker 2: you're very boisterous, You're very You're kind of tough. Was
Speaker 2: that a choice or is that just like how you
Speaker 2: naturally are?
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Do you pay for my coaching?
Speaker 2: Do I pay for your coaching?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Are you in the accelerator program?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: My coaching's not boisterous? Oh it isn't Yeah, no, not
Speaker 1: so funny.
Speaker 2: Do you tell people that when they sign up, like
Speaker 2: you're not going to get the same thing that you
Speaker 2: see on online?
Speaker 3: No, that wouldn't be accurate either. I think that it's
Speaker 3: important to realize that what you see on social media
Speaker 3: tends to be a snippet of somebody's personality or like
Speaker 3: a little glimpse into their life. But inside of my coaching,
Speaker 3: it is very tactical. It is super super kind, loving, open,
Speaker 3: empathetic listening. It is responsive into what people need, especially
Speaker 3: in my Platinum coaching. It's super conversational. But I think
Speaker 3: I'm really different than people assume I am from the
Speaker 3: internet anyhow, So when you get to know me, I.
Speaker 5: Think so, I mean probably like if I like I
Speaker 5: go through the videos and look, it's like you talk
Speaker 5: a mile in a minute, and you're very excited and
Speaker 5: you feel and it feels like really intense, even like
Speaker 5: short videos.
Speaker 2: So that's what that's I think why I was making
Speaker 2: that assumption. It's not like a tender kind of caretaky
Speaker 2: vibe that some coaches have, you.
Speaker 3: Know, like, oh, well, I'm not like A'm not a
Speaker 3: spirituality coach. I mean, I'm not a I don't claim
Speaker 3: to be like a feminine energy coach. I don't claim
Speaker 3: to be you know, someone who's gonna just talk about
Speaker 3: how beautiful you are and wonderful you are and want
Speaker 3: to cuddle you. I'm the coach that you would hire
Speaker 3: if you're looking for actual results. So yeah, that I
Speaker 3: will say is true. But maybe that's why I attract
Speaker 3: males and females. I don't just attract women like I don't.
Speaker 3: I see a lot of these spirituality coaches right now,
Speaker 3: which is nothing wrong with them, of course, because that's
Speaker 3: their niche, right, and they say, you know, join me,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to teach you how to become more
Speaker 3: spiritual and more in alignment with your life. And that's
Speaker 3: just not what you're if you if you hire me
Speaker 3: as your coach and the accelerator, you're going to learn
Speaker 3: business skills. I'm going to show you how to make money, right,
Speaker 3: I'm going to show you how to I'm going to
Speaker 3: show you how to how to, you know, take your
Speaker 3: business to the next level. We're not going to sit
Speaker 3: around in kumbaya. If that's what you're looking for.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't even know who to refer
Speaker 1: you to.
Speaker 2: Guys. I was trying, but the energy had shifted, so
Speaker 2: I was like, fuck it. Yeah. A couple of questions
Speaker 2: because we got like five six minutes left.
Speaker 4: One.
Speaker 2: I did hear all about the Columbia trip? Any more
Speaker 2: notes on that? I saw some of your response videos,
Speaker 2: but I'm not like in Facebook or anything, so I
Speaker 2: don't really know much about that other than there was
Speaker 2: like a lot of chatter on TikTok about it being
Speaker 2: kind of brutal.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, well what have you what have you heard?
Speaker 3: I want to know about the trip because it sounds
Speaker 3: like it was. It sounds like people on TikTok think
Speaker 3: they were on the trip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that it was a lot like that. There was
Speaker 2: just a brutal hike and it was a lot more
Speaker 2: intense and people weren't prepared for it. Basically, I talked
Speaker 2: to Aaron. Well, I've noticed that I talked to Aaron
Speaker 2: Bees a bit about it, but there's been plenty of
Speaker 2: people chit chats.
Speaker 1: On the trip. I think I was on the trip,
Speaker 1: but I'm not. I don't. I don't remember her being
Speaker 1: on the trip.
Speaker 2: She wasn't.
Speaker 3: No interesting, So TikTok journalism and YouTube journalism are very
Speaker 3: interesting to me because it seems to me like there
Speaker 3: tends to be little to no research done whatsoever, and
Speaker 3: a lot of crazy, silicious stories come out because they
Speaker 3: get views, right, and views make you money. I also
Speaker 3: find it interesting that these people have to use my
Speaker 3: name in order to get any views. But I guess
Speaker 3: that's I guess that's kind of normal, right. So first
Speaker 3: thing I would do if I were to call Columbia
Speaker 3: an aggressive hike is I'd probably checked the topography of
Speaker 3: Carda Hana Carda Hanah has no hills, has no mountains.
Speaker 3: How could it be a brutal hike.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not sure where and exactly it was,
Speaker 2: but I know that's the town you were staying in,
Speaker 2: but I don't know exactly where it was.
Speaker 3: The entire topography of the entire region of Carda Hanah
Speaker 3: has no hills, no mountains. So immediately Andrew. Second thing
Speaker 3: is nobody asked if anybody had asked anything about maybe waivers,
Speaker 3: or asked about health anything, or asked about going on
Speaker 3: the trip or what kind of trip it was, because
Speaker 3: everybody who talked about it wasn't on the trip.
Speaker 2: But we heard those silicious details from jess See herself.
Speaker 3: Remember, we planned to make them walk five kilometers in
Speaker 3: direct sunlight on the side of a Columbian rope. And
Speaker 3: so the first day we were chilling and our flipping
Speaker 3: twelve bedroom villa two, I tricked them even more to
Speaker 3: be totally honest, I rented a boat for the day
Speaker 3: We're gonna go on to hike tomorrow, you know, prepare
Speaker 3: for like two hours. And look, I knew it wasn't
Speaker 3: two hours, okay, And we said, if anybody asks throughout
Speaker 3: the entire day, how much longer that you said, you
Speaker 3: have to say we're almost there. So even if they
Speaker 3: asked twenty minutes in, how much longer we're.
Speaker 1: Almost there, We're almost there.
Speaker 3: We planned it to be like this because the whole
Speaker 3: thing was I wanted to break people. So I don't
Speaker 3: really feel any need to defend myself about something that
Speaker 3: was an unbelievable leadership experience of people who all sixteen
Speaker 3: people had an amazing time, made content about how incredible
Speaker 3: it was, made content about how much it shifted them
Speaker 3: as leaders. The one person that's a diabetic is has
Speaker 3: had stable sugars ever since then, has completely transformed her
Speaker 3: entire life and credits a lot of it to that trip.
Speaker 3: So if I'm supposed to apologize for it, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: Think I was asking for that. I was just asking
Speaker 2: what your perspective, or you know, just what your experience was.
Speaker 3: My perspective is that it sounds like people with very
Speaker 3: bad journalism have gotten in your ear, and it's kind
Speaker 3: of unfortunate.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you caught it, but Jesse Lee
Speaker 2: essentially said that this hike cured someone of their diabetes.
Speaker 2: That's the kind of loaded language. Gurus often use and
Speaker 2: you have to be on the lookout for it. It's sneaky.
Speaker 2: And then, just a few minutes before the end of
Speaker 2: our time together, my phone started blowing up with text
Speaker 2: messages from people I'd talked to this season telling me
Speaker 2: that Jesse Lee Ward was live broadcasting our entire conversation
Speaker 2: on social media. I had no idea. Not only did
Speaker 2: she not tell me she'd be doing that, she didn't
Speaker 2: do me the courtesy I'd extended to her and try
Speaker 2: to obtain my permission. I didn't know what to do,
Speaker 2: but chose not to spend the last few minutes in
Speaker 2: a fruitless argument, so I turned back to our topic.
Speaker 2: When I was thinking about getting a coach, I wanted
Speaker 2: someone to like call me every single morning and tell
Speaker 2: me what to do with my day, Like at nine o'clock,
Speaker 2: you're going to do this, at ten o'clock, you're going
Speaker 2: to do this at eleven o'clock, Like how specific is it,
Speaker 2: and how much handholding is there? And do you have
Speaker 2: can you give us like a little peak into what
Speaker 2: like the skills that you're teaching what they are.
Speaker 3: So you're not You're not gonna get mindset coaching unless
Speaker 3: you're in silver. Silver is specifically for mindset. In the gold,
Speaker 3: this is skill based. So my gold training, which is
Speaker 3: my middle my middle level training. This is exact tactics.
Speaker 3: This is not frou through you know, take control of
Speaker 3: her life or no, h this is your A through Z.
Speaker 3: This is what she needs to do to do this.
Speaker 3: And then my platinum coaching. These are high level people.
Speaker 3: I don't believe high little people need somebody to call them.
Speaker 3: Like the thought of me hiring a coach to call
Speaker 3: me every day and tell me how to do my
Speaker 3: day like girl, No, I don't. I don't need that.
Speaker 3: Like I'm highly motivated, I'm highly inspired. I'm highly excited
Speaker 3: about my life. I've never needed somebody to say, Hi, Okay,
Speaker 3: now let's have a miracule morning, and let's move our body,
Speaker 3: and let's drink some water, and let's brush our teeth
Speaker 3: and let's now go to the kitchen and make our juice.
Speaker 1: No, must be nice to looking for a babysitter.
Speaker 4: I am.
Speaker 2: I am. I'm looking for like a babysitter or a wife.
Speaker 2: I just I do want someone to take charge of
Speaker 2: all that stuff.
Speaker 3: You're honest, Yeah, No, I feels successful.
Speaker 2: I do feel successful and happy in my career at
Speaker 2: the same time. But I would prefer to be taken,
Speaker 2: you know, for that stuff to not be on my plate.
Speaker 1: Well, you don't need a coach, is true?
Speaker 2: That's true? Okay, all right, I'll put a call out.
Speaker 3: I mean, you're never going to have a coach who's
Speaker 3: gonna like that's yeah, or maybe a therapist.
Speaker 2: I have one of those. Yeah.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: I like the practical skills though that you're talking about teaching.
Speaker 2: All right. Is there anything else that I'm missing or
Speaker 2: that you would you want to talk about before we
Speaker 2: before we end the call here?
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Yeah, No, I don't know.
Speaker 2: This isn't really fun. It's fun to speak to you
Speaker 2: in person. It feels like kind of bizarre because I
Speaker 2: only know you from the internet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a lot of people you know me through
Speaker 1: the internet. That's okay though.
Speaker 3: That's where you can start the relationship and then take
Speaker 3: it where you want to take it.
Speaker 2: One of the difficulties in interviewing a person who does
Speaker 2: public speaking for a living is that they're pretty rehearsed.
Speaker 2: They have all their talking points down, so it was
Speaker 2: a bit difficult to get her to loosen up. Say
Speaker 2: something off the cuff. But after we hung up, her
Speaker 2: live broadcast kept going and she and her assistant relaxed
Speaker 2: a bit.
Speaker 3: Chris had a bad feeling about these people. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: they're antsy and the levers no to self, do not
Speaker 3: subscribe to this podcast?
Speaker 1: Lia says, is that for real?
Speaker 2: Was she for real?
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, but listen, they try to rattle you. This
Speaker 3: is kind of like their thing, and it's impossible when
Speaker 3: you stand in your truth, right. So, yeah, she's looking
Speaker 3: for a babysitter or something. I'm not totally sure what
Speaker 3: she's looking for, but nothing I do is scammy. And
Speaker 3: to call me an aggressive coach when she's never paid
Speaker 3: me a dime, And I like, how did you notice
Speaker 3: how her internet cut out?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: God was like, no, bitch, did you notice that? Did
Speaker 1: y'all notice that? I think she was prepared, But she
Speaker 1: really thought that I was gonna stumble. I don't stumble,
Speaker 1: all right? That got me all rattle dazzled for the day.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm excited now. Okay, so we're gonna
Speaker 3: have an excited day and I'll be back later with
Speaker 3: the podcast that they're not going to try to attack me.
Speaker 3: On Okay, all right, and I hope she's not send
Speaker 3: me her book because you shouldn't burn books.
Speaker 2: Have a good one. She talked about me with her
Speaker 2: followers on lives for the next couple of days while
Speaker 2: she was cooking or juicing or whatever.
Speaker 3: You watched it, if you the lady did with me,
Speaker 3: it was Clarie's you're so awesome like. Once I realized
Speaker 3: what she was doing, I realized that what she wanted
Speaker 3: was for me to get mad so I could fulfill
Speaker 3: some kind of narrative of hers that I'm some like.
Speaker 1: She said, Boisterous, tough, aggressive.
Speaker 2: Are the words three of the words she used to.
Speaker 3: Describe me, person, and coach, And if you've ever been
Speaker 3: coached by me, like I'm guessing some of you probably have,
Speaker 3: those are not words that I would use to describe me.
Speaker 3: And then she tried to say, oh, so you're false advertising,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, you need to get lost.
Speaker 2: I believe what she was referring to with the false
Speaker 2: advertising thing was the moment I asked her if she
Speaker 2: tells her paying clients essentially that she's like a totally
Speaker 2: different person behind closed doors, so.
Speaker 3: If you want to be stupid, what she clearly does
Speaker 3: just keep being stupid and l Apparently I think she lied,
Speaker 3: but she said she told Chrissa that she's an Emmy
Speaker 3: Award winning journalist.
Speaker 2: That's what it.
Speaker 3: Says on Wikipedia and her Wikipedia and her Twitter, which
Speaker 3: we will not provide you with because we are not
Speaker 3: going to promote such a Clearly.
Speaker 1: You just know an ept human. But we couldn't find
Speaker 1: the Emmy.
Speaker 3: So I guess I'm gonna call myself an Oscar winning
Speaker 3: Emmy winning, Grammy winning artist. I'm a Grammy Women winning
Speaker 3: artist because I say so, Okay, it was awful. Uh,
Speaker 3: your twelve year old could have done better.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you. I like how much she's stumbled.
Speaker 3: I like when you make them, make them squim a
Speaker 3: little bit, you make them sclim. All right, So after this,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do this Centrist, and I'll answer some more
Speaker 3: questions for y'all if you have them, or we can
Speaker 3: talk about that crazy lady. I don't even know if
Speaker 3: she knew that I was streaming live like I don't
Speaker 3: think she does her research, and so I don't think
Speaker 3: she knew that every time I.
Speaker 2: Do an interview. Then later on that day, she called
Speaker 2: me a Dingleberry. So number one, fuck her. At least
Speaker 2: I had the balls to say everything to her face
Speaker 2: and jesse Lee and jesse Lee's assistant. Wikipedia, where you
Speaker 2: say you looked me up contains footnotes down. It's got
Speaker 2: to scroll a little ways, but it's kind of down
Speaker 2: at the bottom. Well, you can see them because they're
Speaker 2: embedded in the article. If you want to find all
Speaker 2: my accolades, that's where they would be. But number two
Speaker 2: this got me thinking about the success at all costs
Speaker 2: mentality we've been looking into this season. Napoleon, Hill, Ray, Higden,
Speaker 2: jesse Lee Ward, they all had this eat or be
Speaker 2: eaten attitude, and they all seem to have really bought
Speaker 2: into the idea that in order for them to win,
Speaker 2: someone else must lose, and that it's funny if someone
Speaker 2: else loses, and it's fun to get over on someone
Speaker 2: you think is a loser and make fun of them
Speaker 2: for being a loser. But I'll admit it's not the
Speaker 2: best feeling to listen to someone call you names for
Speaker 2: days on end. I'll be okay, And I really hope
Speaker 2: jesse Lee is fine too, and that all the woo
Speaker 2: woo stuff you read about negative attitudes feeding cancer cells
Speaker 2: isn't true. After that whole thing, I just wanted someone
Speaker 2: to say I was doing okay. So I asked my coach.
Speaker 2: After our final workout, my coach, Jesse, and I sat
Speaker 2: down to talk about how I did over these past
Speaker 2: six months. Just tell me how I'm doing and catch
Speaker 2: my bread first, because we don't need me in the background.
Speaker 6: Like you're doing great, No, honestly I have. I'm very
Speaker 6: proud of you, Like the way that you just lego
Speaker 6: of the fast food. You priorities yourself. You said, this
Speaker 6: is it, I'm going to go with it. You are
Speaker 6: a little hesitant about doing the whole tumor surgery, but
Speaker 6: when you knew that even changing your diet didn't make
Speaker 6: you feel good, I think that you were like, Okay,
Speaker 6: you know what, I need to do everything that she's
Speaker 6: telling me to do because she knows best and she
Speaker 6: sees something that I'm not saying. Before you start feeling good,
Speaker 6: there was a lot of turbulence, which is normal, you know, resistance.
Speaker 6: I don't want this, and it's all normal.
Speaker 1: But you were.
Speaker 6: You went through all the motions and look at where
Speaker 6: you are now.
Speaker 2: You look alive, not feeling a lot better. I'm feeling
Speaker 2: a lot better. Look alive.
Speaker 6: You look, you still look like you're like working on it.
Speaker 6: And I'm sure you're hearing a lot of different great things.
Speaker 6: But but you know, but I feel like you're moving
Speaker 6: in the right direction and you're so who.
Speaker 2: Different.
Speaker 6: Instead of not believing, you're open and that is huge.
Speaker 6: I think that that is what is making all of
Speaker 6: this work. The fact that you're open, you know what,
Speaker 6: lets me do it, just so I can say I
Speaker 6: did it and no it doesn't work, or yes it
Speaker 6: doesn't work, but not doing it because like a yeah,
Speaker 6: that sounds like.
Speaker 1: That was you before.
Speaker 6: Now you're just let me try, and trying has gotten
Speaker 6: you this far. So it's all the energy that you
Speaker 6: put into it. So if you're hopeful and you're doing
Speaker 6: it with love and one great foot in front of
Speaker 6: the other, step by step, this is.
Speaker 2: Where you get well. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 6: I'm very proud of you, Like honestly, like without saying
Speaker 6: your name to a lot of clients, you know, I
Speaker 6: always like use you as an example.
Speaker 2: I'm like this woman stopped, she just stopped.
Speaker 6: She just stopped eating fast food because she cared so
Speaker 6: much about herself. But there's one thing that always makes
Speaker 6: you strong, and for you, it was your daughter. The
Speaker 6: love that you have for your daughter and the as
Speaker 6: much as she needs you in her life gave you
Speaker 6: the strength that fear became fuel. Yeah, you're fueled with love.
Speaker 2: So when we first started, I have to admit there
Speaker 2: was like a moment where I was like scared, this
Speaker 2: is maybe not gonna make any sense. But I got
Speaker 2: like a little freaked out, Like I was like, maybe
Speaker 2: this was like culty, I'm not kidding. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I was afraid of like losing control, Like I don't
Speaker 2: like giving over control.
Speaker 6: It was the opposite.
Speaker 1: It was completely the opposite. I gave you all control.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I guess I sound a
Speaker 6: little culty because I always like go back like metaphysical stuff,
Speaker 6: and you.
Speaker 1: Know, and that seems a little culty.
Speaker 6: You know, when someone connects to like their inner light,
Speaker 6: it's like, ah, fuck, this woman is like she's gonna
Speaker 6: come out with mushrooms and she's gonna come out with
Speaker 6: this shit. And like, at least with my practice, I
Speaker 6: know that for me, love means everything everything that for me,
Speaker 6: God is love. This universe is love. Light is love.
Speaker 6: Everything it comes from love. So if I'm able to
Speaker 6: just give it to you, and sometimes that can be
Speaker 6: culty like because you're like, why the fuck is this
Speaker 6: woman giving me so much love?
Speaker 2: Well, I love you now, I love you now. It's
Speaker 2: like She's like, yeah, it's okay. Like that, we've gotten
Speaker 2: to know each other and I feel like we're friends now.
Speaker 6: We are we are in months later. Yeah, but and
Speaker 6: I understand that. I come across like, you know, like, okay,
Speaker 6: just self love yourself, and you know, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: But I'm really hard ass.
Speaker 6: I'm just like we I help you find your way.
Speaker 6: You're finally feeling this self beautiful love that you are.
Speaker 6: And Jane, you're pretty badass.
Speaker 2: You really are. At the beginning of this I said
Speaker 2: I would hate if someone called me badass. I said
Speaker 2: it on tape. And you're so fucking.
Speaker 1: You are.
Speaker 2: Thank and enjoy it, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 2: I gotta go finish a book now like me. At
Speaker 2: the beginning of this experiment, Jesse Lee derided people like
Speaker 2: my coach who quote sit around and kumbaya. But over
Speaker 2: the past six months, I've come to realize I super
Speaker 2: prefer that to sitting around and counting dollars, not that
Speaker 2: I know from experience. So what my coach is a
Speaker 2: little hooksh pokish. At least she's kind and thoughtful. There's
Speaker 2: something at the heart of the coaching world, at the
Speaker 2: heart of manifesting and positive thinking and all that, that
Speaker 2: my coach would never ascribe to. And that's the idea
Speaker 2: that if you are smart and have the right mindset,
Speaker 2: you will live in a mansion, and that you should
Speaker 2: want to live in a mansion if you're smart and
Speaker 2: have the right mindset, that having an attitude of gratitude
Speaker 2: will bring abundance, and that the proof that you have
Speaker 2: the wrong attitude and that you're an idiot is that
Speaker 2: you belong to the ninety nine percent. Not once did
Speaker 2: my coach suggest thinking and growing rich or leveling up.
Speaker 2: We made tiny changes to my life, I mean, like
Speaker 2: the size of a taco that really improved my outlook
Speaker 2: and my health without cheering each other on for climbing
Speaker 2: over the rest of the caterpillars to reach some unknown reward.
Speaker 1: At the top of the pile.
Speaker 2: That's a reference to the nineteen seventy three illustrated book
Speaker 2: Hope for the flowers that puts everything I'm thinking very
Speaker 2: plainly and beautifully. The real reward is becoming a butterfly
Speaker 2: without being a.
Speaker 1: Dick about it.
Speaker 2: The Dream is written, hosted, and executive produced by me Marie.
Speaker 2: Our producer is Mike Richter, with help from Nancy Golumbiski
Speaker 2: and Joy Sandford. Our editor is Peter Clowney. The Dream
Speaker 2: is a co production of Little Everywhere in Pushkin Industries
Speaker 2: from Pushkin Industry, Special thanks to Fara de Grange, Jake Flanagan,
Speaker 2: Lee Tom Allod, Greta Cone, Jacob Smith, Eric Sandler, Key Rapose,
Speaker 2: Isabella Narvaz and Jordan McMillan