Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2: Breakfast Club.
Speaker 3: Morning everybody, it's the j Envy Charlamagne to God, we
Speaker 3: are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in
Speaker 3: the building. Yes, indeed, brother black Thought, welcome back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, thank you, thank you, thank you, Larry black Thought.
Speaker 2: I'm great. I'm great. I feel great this morning. Man.
Speaker 4: I put out amazing book called The Upcycled Self, Cycled Self.
Speaker 5: What does that title meant?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 6: Essentially, it's about, you know, putting those parts of our
Speaker 6: of our of ourselves, of our of our past. You
Speaker 6: know what I'm saying that I'm no longer going to
Speaker 6: service or no longer going to service in the same
Speaker 6: way to a different use, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 6: to a better use.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 6: So that's that's what it's about. Really, it's a it's
Speaker 6: a self help memoir of sorts.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the art of becoming who we are.
Speaker 4: Always wonder why did it take us so long to
Speaker 4: discover who we actually are?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a it's it's a process,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, it's it's it's valleys and peaks,
Speaker 6: and I think it's uh, you know, you you you
Speaker 6: you arrive at and understanding of who you are you know, uh,
Speaker 6: over time. So it's really no shortcut, you know what
Speaker 6: I'm saying. It's a uh it's a lot of people
Speaker 6: that think you can go from from you know, A
Speaker 6: A to Z, but you gotta you gotta go B, C, D, E.
Speaker 5: F G first, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: And it teaches you too that you know, everything is parallel,
Speaker 4: like there's really nothing behind.
Speaker 6: You absolutely, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: and and and this book is about that too. It's
Speaker 6: about you know, accepting uh the present, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean. It's just you know, living, uh, being more
Speaker 6: intentional about about your presence.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's that's why I'm at with it.
Speaker 3: Did you get a chance to deal with all the
Speaker 3: trauma before you put it in this book?
Speaker 1: Or was it some of it was releasing that trauma
Speaker 1: by writing this book.
Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of the trauma, you know, it was
Speaker 6: it was addressed in during the process, you know, and
Speaker 6: that's that's what made it, you know, just like this
Speaker 6: was my therapy. It was really you know, a cathartic
Speaker 6: sort of experience, and more so than I'd expected. I mean,
Speaker 6: you know, you know your your history, right, but when
Speaker 6: it's laid out there, you know what I mean, when
Speaker 6: you have it on on the Q cards and you
Speaker 6: know what I mean and you're reading it, uh, you
Speaker 6: know in a linear sort of way. I mean, it
Speaker 6: just hits different man, it hits it hits differently. And
Speaker 6: there was something that uh, my co author Jasmine Martin
Speaker 6: was able to, uh to employ like a tool she
Speaker 6: was able to use during this process that you know,
Speaker 6: it just it really hit me hard when I was
Speaker 6: reading one of the final drafts of the book and
Speaker 6: it was you know, she was able to speak. There's
Speaker 6: an a side section where you hear, uh, you know
Speaker 6: my mother, like you hear my mother's perspective, and uh,
Speaker 6: the way she was able to, uh, you know, just
Speaker 6: to approximate my mother's perspective in her voice, That's what
Speaker 6: really really hit me hard in the process.
Speaker 3: Did you have did you have a question your faith
Speaker 3: as a kid growing up? Because you talk about so
Speaker 3: much death in your life and all the stuff that
Speaker 3: you've been through, did you ever say, you know, what,
Speaker 3: does this really exists?
Speaker 1: Is there really a God or whoever you believe it?
Speaker 1: Did you have a question your faith?
Speaker 2: At all I did.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's definitely been times, you know when you I've
Speaker 6: questioned my my faith, uh you know, or I mean
Speaker 6: just on the existential tip, you know what I mean,
Speaker 6: like if there's a god, you know, how could all
Speaker 6: of this you know, loss and trauma and and and
Speaker 6: and and death, uh, you know exists. It's some of
Speaker 6: the stuff that I write about. How how was the
Speaker 6: world this ugly? If you made it in your image?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying. That's one of my bars
Speaker 6: from a song called Dear God. But yeah, to answer
Speaker 6: your question, definitely.
Speaker 1: How did you get that back?
Speaker 3: And the reason I asked is if you don't know,
Speaker 3: when you read the book, you'll find out that you
Speaker 3: lost your father at a young age.
Speaker 1: You lost your mom at a young age as well.
Speaker 1: Both both have murdered.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, murder victims.
Speaker 1: But how did you get that faith back?
Speaker 2: Through the arts? Through the art? Man?
Speaker 6: Like for me, it was it was it was visual art,
Speaker 6: which was my gateway you know, into music, and and
Speaker 6: that's that's what really saved my life.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6: It was a game changer that I would have been
Speaker 6: on the I was already on it. I was on
Speaker 6: that path, and you know, me meeting quest love when
Speaker 6: I did, which you know I talk about in the book,
Speaker 6: and just getting on on that musical trajectory of the
Speaker 6: arts is what really saved me. Now, I know you
Speaker 6: was a baby when your father was tragically murdered, when
Speaker 6: the teenager when your mother was Were you able to
Speaker 6: process that pain in the moment or was that something
Speaker 6: that you dealt with as you got older.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's something that I'm still dealing with.
Speaker 6: I definitely was not able to process it in the moment,
Speaker 6: you know, no matter how hard I tried, right, you know,
Speaker 6: I wanted to feel all the emotion that that you
Speaker 6: you know, you expect you would expect one to feel
Speaker 6: when you experienced that sort of loss. But I mean
Speaker 6: for me, it was I mean, it took forever before
Speaker 6: I was even able to shed a tear about, you know,
Speaker 6: my mother's murder. Know, And I think it's just because
Speaker 6: there was so many layers of callous and and scar
Speaker 6: tissue to sort of work through.
Speaker 2: And that's what that's what this book is about.
Speaker 6: It's about that armor that you know, at one point
Speaker 6: in time, it might it might serve as a defense mechanism.
Speaker 6: It might you know, protect you, but as we move
Speaker 6: through life and you get into different spaces, you start
Speaker 6: to interact with different people, and you know, you're now
Speaker 6: you in these different dynamics, they no longer service in
Speaker 6: the same way.
Speaker 4: What about vengeance and revenge like, how do you ultimately let.
Speaker 5: Let that go?
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, yeah, I'm I feeling I definitely feel
Speaker 6: like I have. It's that's that was just a wise move.
Speaker 6: I think I definitely came to to to understand as
Speaker 6: a young person, when I was still a teenager that uh,
Speaker 6: you know, holding on to uh to to negative energy
Speaker 6: in that way. You know, it's as that's as detrimental
Speaker 6: to you know, the beholder as it is to whoever
Speaker 6: you're trying to project it upon.
Speaker 2: So there, Yeah, I've never really sat.
Speaker 6: With uh, you know, whole vengeance in that way, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean, as far as like in the
Speaker 6: in my dad's case, uh it was it's still it
Speaker 6: was never a solve murder. But in my mom's case, uh,
Speaker 6: you know, they they they apprehended someone shortly after and uh,
Speaker 6: you know, we went through the trial and everything, and
Speaker 6: you know, he received the sentence and then there was
Speaker 6: a mistrial of it all, and he was we had
Speaker 6: to sit through it again. So I sat through actually
Speaker 6: through my mother's murder trial twice, you know. And but
Speaker 6: in that, you know, once it, once it was done,
Speaker 6: it was something that I had to let go of,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, in order for me to
Speaker 6: be able to move forward.
Speaker 3: So and you still had love for for filling regardless
Speaker 3: of everything that happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that gotta be tough.
Speaker 6: To absolutely, Yeah, yeah, I have. I absolutely have love,
Speaker 6: you know, for for Philadelphia. That's that's the place that
Speaker 6: made me. But you know, it's also it's one of
Speaker 6: those you know, it could make you, it could break you,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. And it's the city of
Speaker 6: brotherly love. That love has always been a tough love.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: Is there anything you learned about, uh, your parents in
Speaker 4: this book that you previously didn't know, especially your father.
Speaker 6: There's not much that I really learned about my father
Speaker 6: that you know, hadn't already been told to me. But
Speaker 6: one thing that I really had to deal with in
Speaker 6: writing this book was I had to, you know, just
Speaker 6: sit with the level of grace.
Speaker 2: That my mother had extended to me as a young person.
Speaker 6: I burned the house down at the age of six,
Speaker 6: which is sort of way the book begins. And you know,
Speaker 6: I just knew I was in for it. I thought
Speaker 6: I was in trouble and you know what I mean,
Speaker 6: just guilt and you know, all those feelings were sort
Speaker 6: of you know, bubbling, uh, you know, like running through
Speaker 6: my body.
Speaker 2: And my mom came home.
Speaker 6: Obviously, my only concern was, you know, safe, everybody was safe, right,
Speaker 6: and yeah, just you know, the grace that she extended
Speaker 6: at that time, and it was just really surprising, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean, And it was a beautiful thing,
Speaker 6: and it just gave me a different sort of insight
Speaker 6: into who she was and in retrospect, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean now, you know, as an adult, just to
Speaker 6: go back and relive it. Yeah, it just gave me
Speaker 6: different take on my mother as a person, you.
Speaker 4: Know, and you understood and the magnitude of what happened
Speaker 4: at the age of six, I don't.
Speaker 6: I don't know that I really understood the magnitude the
Speaker 6: way I knew I'd done something that you know, I mean,
Speaker 6: there was no turning back from you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6: It was something that I couldn't undo. And uh and
Speaker 6: it felt, you know, super serious. But I think in
Speaker 6: that moment, I just shut down, like that was my
Speaker 6: you know, my my knee jerk response, my my reflex
Speaker 6: was I just shut down, and you know, I just
Speaker 6: I walked down the stairs like there wasn't a fires,
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I guess it gives.
Speaker 6: You a different insight too, into your children, right yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So how do you do you give that grace to
Speaker 1: your kids?
Speaker 3: Because you know, as as a parent, you know a
Speaker 3: lot of times when your kids do something, the first
Speaker 3: reactor is to get mad, to get upset, and.
Speaker 1: You want to scold them so they don't do it again.
Speaker 3: But you got to go back to when you were
Speaker 3: six and you did something way worse than I'm sure
Speaker 3: any of your kids have ever done.
Speaker 1: So how does that affect how you parents your kids?
Speaker 2: It absolutely does.
Speaker 6: And you know it's something that I just have to
Speaker 6: remain mindful of, you know, because in the moment, it's
Speaker 6: not easy, you know what I'm saying. I remember a
Speaker 6: couple of years ago, Uh, my son, he he did
Speaker 6: something like where I think he left the water running
Speaker 6: like for a long time up in one of the bathrooms,
Speaker 6: long story short hole, like the ceiling of a whole
Speaker 6: room in my house wound up falling through, you know
Speaker 6: when it was tens of thousands of dollars in damage
Speaker 6: and you know, long insurance claim and you know we
Speaker 6: were jacked up for a long time because of it.
Speaker 6: But yeah, you know, in that moment, it's like, Yo,
Speaker 6: that's when I have to you know, be mindful of
Speaker 6: of that grace. But you know, I definitely I got
Speaker 6: to catch myself because you know, I'm also a disciplinarian,
Speaker 6: you know, So.
Speaker 4: Are you a disciplinarian like your like like the older
Speaker 4: people that raised us, Because I always wondered there was
Speaker 4: a fine line for what we received is yes, Yeah,
Speaker 4: between discipline seventy something.
Speaker 6: It's it's a delicate balance, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6: I've definitely and you know, I think maybe not if
Speaker 6: I've never been team spare the Rod, you know what
Speaker 6: I'm saying. But I'm more lenient now and more, you know,
Speaker 6: I extend more grace now.
Speaker 2: I'm more forgiving now, you know than ever.
Speaker 4: You know what made you feel like now is the
Speaker 4: time to write a memoir? When somebody approaches you and
Speaker 4: it says, hey, we'd love for you to write a memoir.
Speaker 4: You know, you got to open up and really revealed
Speaker 4: things you probably never revealed.
Speaker 5: What made you want to do it now?
Speaker 6: Just because you know, I was, I was excited for
Speaker 6: that in the process, right, I was excited to you know,
Speaker 6: like what that experience might hold for me. You know
Speaker 6: what I'm saying, just being open, accessible and vulnerable in
Speaker 6: a way that I hadn't before in my art. You know,
Speaker 6: hip hop is founded upon so much you know, my
Speaker 6: cheese mo and braggedocio and you know, just larger than
Speaker 6: life win.
Speaker 2: It takes all. Yeah, you know that.
Speaker 6: Sometimes it gets exhausting, you know what I mean when
Speaker 6: when you've done that, when you've had to put up
Speaker 6: you know, such a you know, like a one dimensional
Speaker 6: perspective of of of of yourself and of your art
Speaker 6: and of your identity.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, for such a long time.
Speaker 6: Sometimes it's uh you know, I mean they say that
Speaker 6: about people who lie, right, You tell a lie for
Speaker 6: a long time and then it's like you know, when
Speaker 6: when when.
Speaker 2: The truth shall set you free? Right?
Speaker 6: So this is this is that sort of sort of
Speaker 6: thing playing out for me, and uh, I would meet
Speaker 6: fans who've been rocking with me for such a long time,
Speaker 6: and they would say, you know, for all the roots
Speaker 6: music that you know I've acquired and all your lyrics,
Speaker 6: I know, front to back, I still feel as though
Speaker 6: I don't know, you know, black thoughter, I don't know
Speaker 6: to try to as a person, and that that's always
Speaker 6: been by design, just because of you know, my introversion.
Speaker 6: So I felt like at this stage of my career,
Speaker 6: you know, you know, and act three of of whatever
Speaker 6: it is that that I'm doing as a creative. You know,
Speaker 6: I'm saying I've passed that threshold of fifty years, you know,
Speaker 6: so this is the only place sort of left to
Speaker 6: go is within myself as an artist.
Speaker 2: So this is sort of the final frontier.
Speaker 6: And it's something I've always held near and there because
Speaker 6: I'm so private, you know. So I've I've been you know,
Speaker 6: really possessive in private with my story. But I feel
Speaker 6: like now at this point in time, and you know,
Speaker 6: just with as many people who have followed me and
Speaker 6: who look up to me and you know, the idea
Speaker 6: of being a role model of it all, I think
Speaker 6: this is the time in which it would it would
Speaker 6: be you know, of of the most value and serve
Speaker 6: the most people.
Speaker 5: So as an artist, the memoir unlocks something that music have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has for me.
Speaker 6: It has for me, you know, I've been able to
Speaker 6: just tap into you know, telling my story in a
Speaker 6: different way.
Speaker 3: Now you talk about, you know, when you were a
Speaker 3: team getting in trouble for graffiti, and yeah, get in
Speaker 3: trouble for selling drugs, and then they shipped you, like
Speaker 3: what most black families do if they can't control you,
Speaker 3: they ship into another family. So they dropped you in Detroit. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and during that time, Detroit was just as bad as
Speaker 3: as Philly. So so how did Detroit fix things if
Speaker 3: it did, or did it make it worse?
Speaker 6: You know, for me, it's always been about perspective. So
Speaker 6: one of the ways in which you know Detroit was
Speaker 6: beneficial for me was it wasn't Philly, you know, even
Speaker 6: though it was a lot of the same stuff taking place,
Speaker 6: and you know, it was you know, murder capital, you
Speaker 6: know at one point, and yeah, everything that was happening
Speaker 6: in Philly in the eighties was happening in Detroit, you
Speaker 6: know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: And to some.
Speaker 6: Degrees, you know, it was worse. But you know, my
Speaker 6: uncle was you know, he was doing well for himself.
Speaker 6: He was sort of you know, the Uncle Phil of
Speaker 6: it all. So for me coming from where I came
Speaker 6: from and the place in Detroit where I got to stay,
Speaker 6: it was on the outskirts, it was in the suburbs,
Speaker 6: it was you know, right next door to where Diana
Speaker 6: Ross's dad live. So I felt like I was a
Speaker 6: fresh prince moving on up.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So for me, you know, even though it was short lived,
Speaker 6: just that glimpse of you know, upper mobility, you know
Speaker 6: what I'm saying, it was a different type of fuel
Speaker 6: to the flame.
Speaker 1: It showed you that it was possible.
Speaker 2: It was possible.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know when Question and I was still
Speaker 6: together like throughout that whole thing. So it was a
Speaker 6: different motivation for me to get back to, you know
Speaker 6: what I'm saying, what I had left and what we
Speaker 6: had already started working on Motown.
Speaker 5: Any influence like being close to.
Speaker 6: That, you know, I think it's a It's it's more
Speaker 6: the remnants of the Motown energy, like that work ethic
Speaker 6: of it all, the assembly line of it all. You
Speaker 6: know that that was just it's I mean, it's still
Speaker 6: part of Detroit is woven into the fabric of the
Speaker 6: people there, and it's I think that's one of the
Speaker 6: things that makes you know, cities like Detroit, Chicago, Oakland.
Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying, these are sister cities, brother
Speaker 6: brother cities to uh to Affilly in that way.
Speaker 5: I love this line.
Speaker 4: Our lives are our response to the call of our childhoods.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what does that line mean to you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, you know, it's it's about having having
Speaker 2: to go through it to get to it, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Essentially, while we always got to go through it, while
Speaker 4: black people got to go we're.
Speaker 2: Not the only ones that gotta go through you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're not the only ones that gotta go through it.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I think that's that's that's that's what it
Speaker 6: speaks to.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 6: It's about a wisdom that you know you can only
Speaker 6: arrive at, you know what I mean. It's about a
Speaker 6: journey to that wisdom, and sometimes it's about being wise
Speaker 6: enough to realize that, uh, you know, the journey is
Speaker 6: just gonna take you back to where you begin.
Speaker 4: I love reading memoirs now because I love to hear
Speaker 4: how people, you know, cope with you know, their inner.
Speaker 5: Child, because I do not know why.
Speaker 4: The older you get, it feels like you're in a
Speaker 4: child is crying out for more and more help. And
Speaker 4: especially when you do start doing the work, when you
Speaker 4: do start going to therapy, sitting with spiritual leaders, you know,
Speaker 4: dealing with plants, whatever it is, it's like you're in
Speaker 4: a child to start screaming out for help.
Speaker 6: Well, they talk about our emotional response to just things
Speaker 6: in the world and how, you know, the way we
Speaker 6: respond to things, you know, is something that we usually
Speaker 6: developed before the age of seven or eight, you know
Speaker 6: what I mean. So's it requires a conscious effort, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean, in order to to train your body,
Speaker 6: to condition yourself to to respond to the world, to
Speaker 6: respond to any sort of stimuli in a different way
Speaker 6: than you would as a child, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: So that's what they call, you know, the work. So
Speaker 6: this is this is part of that. This is uh,
Speaker 6: this is me doing doing my work to work through
Speaker 6: my ship. And it's and it's the beginning of it.
Speaker 6: This book is only you know, this is UH, this
Speaker 6: is me as a young person.
Speaker 2: It's ah. By the by the end of the book,
Speaker 2: I think I'm still I'm in high school.
Speaker 3: You know, I was gonna ask with the Roots when
Speaker 3: you guys created the Roots, when did y'all start making money?
Speaker 3: And the reason I asked is because it was new,
Speaker 3: Like when when when the Roots came out, it was
Speaker 3: something that hip hop hasn't seen on that platform or
Speaker 3: respected on that platform. So when did the Roots finally
Speaker 3: break through? And was like, nah, this is hip hop's bad?
Speaker 6: I want to say around you know, two thousand.
Speaker 1: And six, and who was the characters during that time?
Speaker 6: It was you know, me quest Comar hover it on bass,
Speaker 6: I want to say, Frank Knuckles was playing percussion and
Speaker 6: Kirk Captain Kirk went on guitar. You know that was
Speaker 6: that was sort of the crew. And also around that time,
Speaker 6: you know, Cody chessing Ut was a reoccurring you know,
Speaker 6: basically a member of the Roots. When he decided, you know,
Speaker 6: to make a move and you know, stop touring with us,
Speaker 6: he uh essentially replaced himself with my with my brother
Speaker 6: Martin Luther. So we've always had you know, someone you know,
Speaker 6: just like a singer since the early two thousands associated
Speaker 6: with with with with the group.
Speaker 3: Was it hard to always you know, break into a
Speaker 3: market sell it to a promoter because I just remember
Speaker 3: the routs so early on and just like this is
Speaker 3: just so different, and sometimes a hip hop different, it
Speaker 3: is hard to break through.
Speaker 2: It was very hard for us.
Speaker 6: It was, you know, super difficult to because we didn't
Speaker 6: really look or sound or feel like anything anything else
Speaker 6: that was that was happening. So it was a lot
Speaker 6: of uh, you know, we always had to prove ourselves
Speaker 6: right and and you know, I mean it took so
Speaker 6: long for us to even break even financially, and that's
Speaker 6: something that just came over time. Uh, you know, just
Speaker 6: paying those dues on the road, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 6: Like you start at one point touring and then you're
Speaker 6: able to sort of get your stock up just through
Speaker 6: when you keep coming back.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
Speaker 6: So we were able to sort of build on on
Speaker 6: on that relevance and it was wild. It was like
Speaker 6: when we finally hit a point, you know, six o seven,
Speaker 6: you know where we felt like, yeah, you know, all
Speaker 6: these years of two hundred plus days on the road
Speaker 6: started to pay off. That's when you know, there was
Speaker 6: a whole seismic shift in the way people started to
Speaker 6: receive you know, people were receiving music and you know,
Speaker 6: concert tickets and all that thing. It was, you know,
Speaker 6: we went through a revolution with the you know, streaming
Speaker 6: and that whole thing. So and then that's when the
Speaker 6: Tonight Show opportunity presented itself and that's what made it
Speaker 6: make sense. It was like, you know, we had just
Speaker 6: reached finally reached the we hit a stride and and
Speaker 6: everything was changed engine you know. So yeah, that that
Speaker 6: in that uncertainty, uh you know, the the consistency of
Speaker 6: the day job in that platform that it would it
Speaker 6: would represent.
Speaker 5: You know, it looked really good. Was there a particular moment?
Speaker 2: Was it?
Speaker 5: Was it a jay Z using y'all a lot or like,
Speaker 5: was it a particular moment that caused that shift?
Speaker 2: You know when we started to make some bread, Yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Mean get recognized by enough to where the Tonight Show
Speaker 4: was like yo, I want that.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, yeah, I think it was just over time, man.
Speaker 6: You know, we you know, we've been around for I
Speaker 6: mean blessed enough to have been around for such a
Speaker 6: long time that you know. A good example is, you
Speaker 6: know there's a festival that takes place in in in
Speaker 6: uh in Denmark, in Copenhagen, every year. It's called Ross Guild.
Speaker 6: And uh, you know, we started playing at Ross Guild
Speaker 6: before we were even you know, allowed on the actual
Speaker 6: festival grounds. Like we were you know, two tenths you know,
Speaker 6: out on the main trip right and you know, we
Speaker 6: we worked our way up from you know the outskirts
Speaker 6: to the tenth you know, right on the borderline to
Speaker 6: you know, you know, third and fourth stages until we came.
Speaker 2: Back and we were able to headline, you know, with
Speaker 2: it was the Roots and Bruce Springsteen co.
Speaker 6: Headline, so you know, but yeah, that was over you
Speaker 6: know what I'm saying many years and it's like Roskild
Speaker 6: isn't like we've done that around the world, you know
Speaker 6: what I mean, just because we've been able to keep
Speaker 6: up appearances. So yeah, yeah, I guess we just paid
Speaker 6: our dues, you know, paid our dues and yeah, and
Speaker 6: then once we got you know, we got into Late
Speaker 6: Night and we started doing that thing. It definitely represented
Speaker 6: a change in our career where we haven't been able
Speaker 6: to tour in that same way. So yeah, everything that
Speaker 6: we had done up until that point, it's just been
Speaker 6: a blessing. And it's is sort of thing where we
Speaker 6: probably had taken it for granted, we'd be able to
Speaker 6: do it forever.
Speaker 2: But you know, here we.
Speaker 6: Are and now, yeah, it's uh, it's just more of
Speaker 6: a blessing and just a greater opportunity when we do
Speaker 6: get to go out and and still touch the fans
Speaker 6: in that way.
Speaker 4: Now, Now, when you decided to write about the altercation,
Speaker 4: you had request love. Yeah, back back in the nineties.
Speaker 4: You have to ask him if you could speak on that.
Speaker 6: No, I didn't have to ask him because he's written
Speaker 6: about it in one of his books, and it's the
Speaker 6: sort of thing that you know, like, that's my brother,
Speaker 6: So I mean, I know if it's good or not,
Speaker 6: you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: And also that's it's like to me, those are best relationships.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, if you can have, if you can fight
Speaker 4: and then get over it, yeah, hey man.
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, And you know, it really takes it takes
Speaker 6: it takes love for somebody to get you that upset, right,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, Only my my loved ones
Speaker 6: have ever really been able to get me that ribbed up, right,
Speaker 6: So it's it's this there's something in that. But yeah,
Speaker 6: you know, I was we were all kids at that point,
Speaker 6: you know. Now, now I'm an adult, so I would
Speaker 6: I would I would have dealt with that situation a
Speaker 6: completely different way.
Speaker 1: How long did y'all not speak?
Speaker 6: I mean we lived together, maybe we didn't speak for
Speaker 6: the train ride home, but it's like once.
Speaker 1: We got back, right, And how was that I had
Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable? Awkward?
Speaker 6: Like, bro, yeah it was. It was definitely, you know,
Speaker 6: it was awkward. It was uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 6: It's the sort of thing that I would laugh about
Speaker 6: almost most immediately, Like that's just where I come from.
Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying. You get into a little thing,
Speaker 6: you know, we settle it and then it's funny. But yeah,
Speaker 6: in our man's case, it just wasn't you know what
Speaker 6: I'm saying. You're like, nah, it wasn't funny, Like yeah,
Speaker 6: but yeah, we were able to, you know, obviously move
Speaker 6: past it, and I think, yeah, we're strong before it.
Speaker 2: People asked me about, you.
Speaker 6: Know, how we remained together and work together and you know,
Speaker 6: been business partners on so many different levels for such
Speaker 6: a long time, and I think, you know, it's because
Speaker 6: we got shipped like that out of the way, you know,
Speaker 6: like early on, and we able to you know, just
Speaker 6: focus on the art and the business, you know, for
Speaker 6: for many years.
Speaker 4: Chapter twelve doing the work. What kind of work do
Speaker 4: we need to do to find out who we really are?
Speaker 4: Like what worked for for black Thought?
Speaker 6: I think, you know it's it's confronting. It's confronting you know,
Speaker 6: our demons, you know it head on. And this, like
Speaker 6: I said, this is this represents the beginning of me,
Speaker 6: you know, doing doing a lot of that work. But yeah,
Speaker 6: it's still you know, very very far more to go.
Speaker 5: Was it therapy? Was it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: That's part of it, you know what I'm saying. Definitely, Uh,
Speaker 6: you know, couple's therapy, Uh, you know, therapy you know
Speaker 6: for myself, therapy for my children. You know, these are
Speaker 6: the sort of things, These are the sort of tools
Speaker 6: that are at our disposal to embrace. And you know,
Speaker 6: when it's good, it's great, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6: So I try to utilize all that.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I'm a big performing in therapy.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Is there anything you left?
Speaker 6: Meditation? Meditation, medication? Yeah, yeah, meditation is huge.
Speaker 1: How did you learn how to meditate?
Speaker 3: And the reason I say that is a lot of
Speaker 3: people don't know how when they try they close the
Speaker 3: rise and they can't get to that place just.
Speaker 6: Just over time, over time, you know, it was something
Speaker 6: that now I started meditating. I started taking you know,
Speaker 6: fifteen twenty twenty five minutes at the beginning of the day,
Speaker 6: at the end of the day to just sit and
Speaker 6: you know, just be at peace, to be silent and
Speaker 6: just try and you know, quiet my mind. And yeah,
Speaker 6: then I started reading some books and I got into
Speaker 6: this guy, doctor Joe Despenser. He wrote a book called
Speaker 6: Becoming Supernatural. I got up on his stuff, and he's
Speaker 6: a unique individual, just because of his tone of voice,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, the way he leads a meditation.
Speaker 2: His voice is really it's just wild, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. He sounds like it's just some you know,
Speaker 2: it's like some freak shit, you know.
Speaker 6: But once you're able to like move past that and
Speaker 6: you can get over the way his voice sounds, and
Speaker 6: you you know, you're comfortable within yourself, you start to
Speaker 6: you know, see and feel results, and then you start
Speaker 6: to meet people and it's like, yo, it's so like
Speaker 6: I could feel that there's been a seismic shift in
Speaker 6: your life. And you ask what they're doing, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 6: I'm doing the same shit, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 6: I started to meet people who call itself putting me
Speaker 6: on to the meditations that I was already doing. But they,
Speaker 6: you know, they may have been further along in the practice.
Speaker 6: And it gave me, you know, hope. It gave me,
Speaker 6: you know, just that that reassurance that once you get
Speaker 6: over a hump, you can hit a stride and uh
Speaker 6: yeah it really works.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 5: You got your mantra, you count your beads.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, you know, I mean, you do whatever
Speaker 2: you need to do.
Speaker 6: If it's bees, if it's a mantra, if it's you know,
Speaker 6: just sitting in silence, if it's you know, if it's
Speaker 6: related to you know, the light or the lack there, well,
Speaker 6: whatever you need to do, you just got to do it.
Speaker 6: I think, you know, it's something different for everyone else.
Speaker 6: Every individual person, uh, you know, has something specific that
Speaker 6: they can latch onto to deepen and strengthen their own
Speaker 6: personal practice.
Speaker 2: Yah.
Speaker 5: It started me.
Speaker 4: My good sister Debbie Brown, she got me started on
Speaker 4: counting the bees, chanting my mantra. So now I'm at
Speaker 4: the point where I can just chant my mantra.
Speaker 6: Yeah and get there count exactly yeah, yeah, you know,
Speaker 6: and that's that's that's when you hit that, that's that's
Speaker 6: that transcendental, you know what I mean of it all.
Speaker 5: Could you be Black Thought without being from Philly?
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think, you know, so much of of of who
Speaker 6: I am, you know, so much of my identity is
Speaker 6: associated with my my philadelphianness, you know. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 6: the sort of place that I had to grow up,
Speaker 6: you know, Black Thought. I couldn't I couldn't have been
Speaker 6: Black Thought if I haven't hadn't been working, you know,
Speaker 6: as long as I have, and you know, I got
Speaker 6: a job in second grade that was a you know,
Speaker 6: that was a very Philadelphian thing, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I don't think.
Speaker 6: I don't think the balance of you know, the love,
Speaker 6: but that tough love, I don't think I would have
Speaker 6: been able to receive that, you know, from any other community.
Speaker 5: And the name black Thought, where exactly did that derive from?
Speaker 6: It derived from you know, my my, my time as
Speaker 6: a visual artist and you know.
Speaker 2: Just dealing with paints and you know, just the color palette.
Speaker 6: I realized that you know, so much more whin into
Speaker 6: you know, arriving at the color black, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean. Then then one would think there's so many
Speaker 6: different nuances and colors, other colors that go into you know,
Speaker 6: arriving at the color black. So that's sort of what
Speaker 6: it would have began as and over time it's it's
Speaker 6: evolved into something, you know, that has taken far, far
Speaker 6: greater meaning you know, both I guess to me and
Speaker 6: and to you know.
Speaker 2: To people who who support me.
Speaker 6: So yeah, at the time, I didn't think, you know,
Speaker 6: I wasn't thinking of black thought as the concept of people,
Speaker 6: you know what I'm saying, But that's sort of what
Speaker 6: what has come to mean.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, I wanted to ask, and I know it's
Speaker 3: it's it's a question that people ask all the time,
Speaker 3: what's your what's your thought process on artists.
Speaker 1: Now and music now?
Speaker 3: The reason I ask is, you know, growing up, there
Speaker 3: were so many outlets for different types of music.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: You would hear Tribe on the radio, you would hear
Speaker 3: Most Death on the radio. You would hear Kanye, you
Speaker 3: would hear the Roots, you would hear COmON. But you
Speaker 3: would hear your Jay, you would hear your Cube, you
Speaker 3: would hear the different elements of music. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 3: think you hear that. Now, do you think that side
Speaker 3: is not being represented or just musicians are not being heard?
Speaker 6: I think I think it's being I think that side,
Speaker 6: I think the diversity of it all is being represented.
Speaker 6: But I don't think that platform is radio, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean. So I think it's being represented,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 6: Just across different platforms, and it's about tapping into those, uh,
Speaker 6: you know, I think they're more outlets, more avenues now
Speaker 6: than ever for an artist to sort of emerge without
Speaker 6: being taken advantage of, without having to sell and soul
Speaker 6: without having to compromise as much as we did, you know,
Speaker 6: like for the deal, for the bag, for the exposure.
Speaker 6: So yeah, it's it's just about you know, tapping into those,
Speaker 6: into those avenues. But yeah, I think there's more there's
Speaker 6: more space now, you know, in the in the culture,
Speaker 6: like the hip hop landscape, for for the just a
Speaker 6: broad range of influences to coexist. I think, like more
Speaker 6: so now than ever, you know. So yeah, I don't
Speaker 6: think I mean now I don't love all the music
Speaker 6: that all the hip hop music that comes out, but
Speaker 6: I think, you know, I like that that's it's all good, right,
Speaker 6: that's cool, Like I'll allow it, you know, And I
Speaker 6: think back like when if I ever really rock with
Speaker 6: every single thing, you know what.
Speaker 2: Ever, so yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: It just gave artist a chance to be a little
Speaker 3: a little more commercial, right. I just remember as a
Speaker 3: kid or even an adult, you grew up listening to
Speaker 3: the radio.
Speaker 1: Think about it. You would hear Public Enemy on the radio. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you would hear tribal.
Speaker 2: Poking.
Speaker 3: Me was in rotation, comment was in rotation, trib court
Speaker 3: quest was definitely in rotation. So you would hear those
Speaker 3: type music. But you would hear your hoes, you would
Speaker 3: hear your nahds, you would hear your Biggie, you would
Speaker 3: hear DMX. It just was an element that I don't
Speaker 3: necessarily know if it's you know, if it's transcendent now
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I don't think it's you know, yeah, the Yeah,
Speaker 6: the culture is not represented in that way anymore, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean, definitely not not on radio.
Speaker 4: Even this conversation is always interested in me because we
Speaker 4: act like over the last twelve thirteen, all all the
Speaker 4: top guys ain't on ain't on that hardcore right right,
Speaker 4: and not the Drakes, the Kendricks, the Colds like you
Speaker 4: had chances in there, you've had the Wilets, the big Shot.
Speaker 5: They're not even on that. So it's just like when
Speaker 5: people talk about how.
Speaker 1: Bad the culture is bad, like who are you all.
Speaker 5: Paying attention to?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's just different. It's different, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean, whether you think it's bad or not.
Speaker 4: You know, well man, black thoughts book man, that's right
Speaker 4: cycled self cycled selves.
Speaker 3: Yes, we appreciate you for jordan Us. What do you
Speaker 3: want people to get out of this book? If they
Speaker 3: if they can get one thing out of it, what
Speaker 3: do you want them to get out of this?
Speaker 6: You know, if if if one person is able to
Speaker 6: see themselves and you know, better understand themselves or better
Speaker 6: understand you know, their path, their their lived experience, if
Speaker 6: this is going to be you know, an entree into
Speaker 6: someone else being able to start to work through their
Speaker 6: stuff and you know, shed some of those layers of
Speaker 6: of armor that are no longer useful, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean, those layers of callous and in scar tissue.
Speaker 6: Then yeah, it's it's a win. And I've already you know,
Speaker 6: experienced that, you know, I've already had some of those conversations.
Speaker 6: So I feel this book has already been helpful.
Speaker 5: All right, And y'all ain't get nominated for a Grammy
Speaker 5: this year.
Speaker 2: I did. I got dominated a couple of days ago. Congratulations.
Speaker 6: Thought the album Yeah, I know, a capella not even
Speaker 6: with a beat, wow, just the voice it bars wow?
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah yeah, love letter to hip hop?
Speaker 5: How did that feel?
Speaker 2: It feels awesome.
Speaker 6: It feels feel awesome like in that moment, I didn't
Speaker 6: really realize it until you know, my homie started telling
Speaker 6: me like, yeah, you know, it was wild, like this is,
Speaker 6: you know, your first Brandy nomination, you know what I mean,
Speaker 6: like outside of the roots. And then another homie hit
Speaker 6: me was like, yo, it would be wild if you
Speaker 6: win this joint like that's the flex.
Speaker 2: You don't even need music, you know. I sat with it, like.
Speaker 4: Do you still I don't want to say need it,
Speaker 4: but do you do you like that type of validation?
Speaker 2: I do? I do?
Speaker 6: I still appreciate that that that sort of validation, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean? That's not you know what I
Speaker 6: do it for, but it definitely uh yeah, I mean,
Speaker 6: it feels it's great to be recognized, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean.
Speaker 1: So absolutely well, it's black thought. We appreciate you. Pick
Speaker 1: up his book, The Upcycled Self, and it's The Breakfast Club.
Speaker 1: Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club