Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I Koch Steffan never
Speaker 1: told you a production of iHeartRadio. And we are entering
Speaker 1: the final month of twenty twenty three, here we are,
Speaker 1: and that can be quite a stressful time. We were
Speaker 1: just talking about four students who have to cram for exam.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been so long since I've been a part
Speaker 2: of that life style, but I remember this moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally forget about that. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: And then for people traveling or decorating, cooking, all of
Speaker 1: those things. And so in a recent happy hour I
Speaker 1: mentioned are the emotional labor episode we did around the Holidays,
Speaker 1: which is very funny to me because we did that
Speaker 1: as part of a sponsorship deal. And I feel like
Speaker 1: a lot of times when a sponsor was like, can
Speaker 1: we do an EPISO, And we're like, here's ten depressing topics,
Speaker 1: which one would you like?
Speaker 4: Don't try to like catalyze on the idea? They like,
Speaker 4: but we make it easier, yeah, and we're.
Speaker 5: Like, it's still not easy. We're stressed out. We're stressed out. Well,
Speaker 5: so please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie
Speaker 5: and Samantha, and welcome to STEPHF Mo've never told you
Speaker 5: a prediction of iHeartRadio's House Stuff Work. Today we are
Speaker 5: talking about emotional Labor Holiday edition. If you all remember
Speaker 5: a while back, Virget and I did an episode on
Speaker 5: emotional labor.
Speaker 3: But today we're focusing specifically.
Speaker 1: On the holidays, the holidays and the work that a
Speaker 1: lot of women do to make the holidays happen. And
Speaker 1: Samantha and I have already talked about how the holidays
Speaker 1: are a bit of a source of stress for us.
Speaker 1: I like the holidays, I'll put that out there, but
Speaker 1: they are extremely stresful. They are not relaxing for me
Speaker 1: at all. I have, in general a problem relaxing. So
Speaker 1: hard to say right. So in my case, when I
Speaker 1: look at what's stressing me, it's the planning, the shopping,
Speaker 1: the making a food plus vegetarian because of my little brother,
Speaker 1: of course, getting the timing of everything right, bringing all
Speaker 1: the decorations down from the attic, and that's down sets
Speaker 1: of stairs, setting them up, getting the tree, it's setting
Speaker 1: that up, the lights, the ornaments, hanging outside lights, finding gifts,
Speaker 1: wrapping them, writing cards, cleaning, and then the worst part
Speaker 1: putting everything away stressed me out.
Speaker 2: Just typing it yeah. I don't do any of those stuff,
Speaker 2: and I'm still stressed. I barely like all my family
Speaker 2: members getting gift cards. I am the best, worst, worst, best,
Speaker 2: because you know, I give them what they want, but
Speaker 2: it's not very creative.
Speaker 1: Oh, we're going to talk about that a little bit more.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, I will say. I'm just gonna throw this
Speaker 1: out here.
Speaker 3: From the research I read, a lot of people do
Speaker 3: like gift cards. I don't. I'd rather get no gift
Speaker 3: at all.
Speaker 2: I would rather have something. If you were going to
Speaker 2: give me a gift card, I want it to be
Speaker 2: something that I will use. So if you give me
Speaker 2: a gift card to Panera Starbucks, not gonna be as happy.
Speaker 2: Oh no, because I don't go to those places, right, kidding, right,
Speaker 2: Although don't get me wrong, sometimes soup is delicious.
Speaker 1: See what I don't like about gift cards. I'm wondering
Speaker 1: if any of my relatives are going to listen to this. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll say it. I don't like that you can't. I
Speaker 1: don't know how much is on it, and I don't
Speaker 1: like the moment of I have no idea how much is.
Speaker 3: This going to get me?
Speaker 1: Right, especially when it comes to bank gift cards because
Speaker 1: I really would just rather have money or check.
Speaker 3: That's going to be what it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I probably have at least twenty seven
Speaker 1: dollars on past gift car cards.
Speaker 4: I just, yeah, it is.
Speaker 2: It is a nice little trick because either you can't
Speaker 2: spend it all right, or you're going to spend that
Speaker 2: and then extra on top of that.
Speaker 4: It's a gimmick.
Speaker 3: It is a gimmick. That's sorry, we're coming out strong.
Speaker 4: Gift cards. I like give cards, Like I said.
Speaker 3: Oh well, agreed to disagree on this point.
Speaker 1: Numerous studies have found that women experience and increase in
Speaker 1: psychological stress during the holidays greater than what men experience,
Speaker 1: and that this increase in stress is worse in the US.
Speaker 1: I actually really enjoyed one of the interview subjects, a
Speaker 1: male interview subject, when asked about this, he said, I
Speaker 1: thought people feel stressed in the holidays.
Speaker 3: I thought they were like relaxing. I don't, I've never
Speaker 3: heard of this. I wanted to hug him and be like, oh,
Speaker 3: you wonderful. Someone's really been making this happen for you.
Speaker 4: Very happy and bluss yes, hashtag blust.
Speaker 1: Hashtag bloss from a two thousand and six survey conducted
Speaker 1: by Greenberg Quinnian Rosner quote holiday stress has a particular
Speaker 1: impact on women, who take charge of many of the
Speaker 1: holiday celebrations, particularly the task related to preparing meals and
Speaker 1: decorating the home. Women are more likely than men to
Speaker 1: report an increase of stress during the holiday season. In addition,
Speaker 1: they have a harder time relaxing during the holidays and
Speaker 1: are more likely to fall into bad habits to manage
Speaker 1: their stress, like comfort eating. Women are much more likely
Speaker 1: to shoulder the work burden during family celebrations. During Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: women are nearly twice as likely to report that they
Speaker 1: will cook sixty six percent of women versus thirty five
Speaker 1: percent of men, shop for food fifty two percent of
Speaker 1: women versus thirty two percent of men, and clean dirty
Speaker 1: dishes seventy percent of women versus forty one percent of men. Men,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, are nearly twice as likely as
Speaker 1: women to report that they will watch football twenty six
Speaker 1: percent of women versus forty six percent of men. So
Speaker 1: that's the end of a quote that was a whole.
Speaker 1: Only a quarter of women feel that they can relax
Speaker 1: during the holidays was another thing. I found and the
Speaker 1: main reasons women gave for their stress were money, pressure
Speaker 1: of buying and wrapping gifts, and lack of time. Another
Speaker 1: study found women are twice as likely yeah, to be
Speaker 1: behind the holiday feast.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my mom is definitely a prime example of
Speaker 2: all of these things.
Speaker 4: Yeah, my mom gets very, very.
Speaker 2: Very stressed out, and then my dad gets stressed out
Speaker 2: watching her, and so he gets angry, oh, and will
Speaker 2: be a little snyed with her, and then she will
Speaker 2: get more angry and more anxious because of that and
Speaker 2: eventually call him a gas which is a holiday tradition.
Speaker 2: And I'm really excited.
Speaker 4: I hope. I'm sure my niece may actually hear this.
Speaker 4: Please don't report this by my mother.
Speaker 2: But it's become a kind of a holiday tradition where
Speaker 2: she finally just breaks and become very country.
Speaker 4: And call.
Speaker 2: And then she but she has this whole expectation that
Speaker 2: it must be part effect. These are the things that
Speaker 2: she has to do. She doesn't want to ask anybody
Speaker 2: for help. It's probably gotten to the point that my
Speaker 2: sister and sister in laws are able to take a
Speaker 2: little bit of the responsibility, and she'll allow it.
Speaker 4: But she also decorates in themes.
Speaker 2: So she decorates in all of the homes and it
Speaker 2: is like Christmas threw up everywhere everywhere. Yes, because so
Speaker 2: one side maybe like country Christmas and the others and
Speaker 2: like fancy French Christmas.
Speaker 4: Like it's just absurd.
Speaker 2: And and I walk in, there's waths at the beginning,
Speaker 2: there's probably lights already on the outside. You go in
Speaker 2: and there is the fake snow, cotton snow everywhere with
Speaker 2: a little bit of glitter and all these figurings, stockings everywhere.
Speaker 4: It is a thing.
Speaker 2: And I feel, yes, I've been very lucky, lucky and
Speaker 2: privileged to be able to celebrate it that way.
Speaker 4: But to me, I'm like, that's not worth it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll say that's a lot more than what
Speaker 1: I am doing.
Speaker 2: I know my mother enjoys the stuff well to an extent,
Speaker 2: to an extent, and that.
Speaker 1: Is something to say, is that some women really enjoyed
Speaker 1: its thrive in it.
Speaker 2: And it makes me stressed out because I'm not creative
Speaker 2: and I'm not very what's the word qut seed homie,
Speaker 2: So I have no knowledge of doing that. I have
Speaker 2: always get the sag Charlie Brown Tree because I think
Speaker 2: it's fantastic.
Speaker 4: And a few little ridiculous trinkets on there. I think
Speaker 4: I bought some shiny balls, yes, to put.
Speaker 2: On their red silver and gold, because I don't like
Speaker 2: the typical oh, you know, you know, and then but
Speaker 2: that's it.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 2: And then my friend bought me two little baby stockings
Speaker 2: for myself and my dog.
Speaker 4: That's cute, right, I don't buy that for myself.
Speaker 1: My I put up a tiny sag Charlie Brown tree
Speaker 1: in my little apartment that you've seen, and all of
Speaker 1: my ornaments are Harry Potter doctor, who's like Captain America.
Speaker 1: So it's a very personalized tree, yes, yes, which I like.
Speaker 1: And kind of going back to what you were saying
Speaker 1: about your dad getting stress watching your mom, My dad
Speaker 1: used to it's almost like he wanted to be involved, right,
Speaker 1: especially with shopping, and then he would get so impatient
Speaker 1: and annoyed with the shopping that we would have to
Speaker 1: leave early and we didn't even get done what we
Speaker 1: had to get done. So we're gonna come back and
Speaker 1: talk to talk more about that in a little bit.
Speaker 1: But okay, no surprise that this added stress we're talking
Speaker 1: about is not good for our health. Research shows that
Speaker 1: it can lead to anxiety and depression, specifically research into
Speaker 1: holiday stress. There's a pressure to always do more. I
Speaker 1: should be doing this or that, especially when children are evolved.
Speaker 3: Feeling like a failure, like.
Speaker 1: You're not meeting these standards that you're putting on yourself
Speaker 1: or that you feel like society is placing on you
Speaker 1: is not a good mental state, not at all. No,
Speaker 1: all right, So what are we talking about? What's going
Speaker 1: on here? Several things?
Speaker 2: Actually, so a quick recap for me as well, because
Speaker 2: I wasn't here to do the emotional labor episode. But
Speaker 2: emotional labor means essentially it's unpaid. Usually, I noticed emotional
Speaker 2: labor we do for those around us to keep them
Speaker 2: comfortable and happy, and women do the bulk of it,
Speaker 2: or they do in.
Speaker 4: Our pop culture definition.
Speaker 2: The term emotional labor was originally coined in nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: nine by Arlie Russell Hushchild and applied to what the
Speaker 2: labor workers in the service industry do to ensure a
Speaker 2: customer's happiness by putting on a happy face. Basically, so,
Speaker 2: she argues that we overuse it these days and that
Speaker 2: we severely muddle the original definition, but she does agree
Speaker 2: that there is something happening, and we don't quite have
Speaker 2: the language to express when we talk about women and
Speaker 2: emotional labor. In her mind, we're conflating perfectionism and simple labor,
Speaker 2: sometimes mental with emotional labor. Emotional labor does very culturally.
Speaker 2: Somethings Americans point to as emotional labor. Other cultures would
Speaker 2: view differently, And we would love to hear any of
Speaker 2: the differences from our listeners. So if y'all know or
Speaker 2: can say any of the differences, please let us know.
Speaker 1: Yes, please, So during the holidays, this work, emotional, mental,
Speaker 1: or just labor, whatever you want to call it, increases exponentially.
Speaker 1: The planning part is really key. That background mental energy
Speaker 1: that you're expending on an enormous scope of people gives food, decorations,
Speaker 1: all of those things. The expectation is for the holidays
Speaker 1: to be perfect and magical. If they aren't, which of course,
Speaker 1: they won't be perfect, it feels like failing, and that
Speaker 1: is a lot of pressure. Making the holidays happen is work,
Speaker 1: and largely it is and has been women's work.
Speaker 3: It's work. Yes, some women really love but.
Speaker 1: Others not so much, or maybe it's just overwhelming and exhausting.
Speaker 3: Maybe like me, it's something I do enjoy it.
Speaker 2: It's a lot, yeah, and I don't enjoy it, so
Speaker 2: I try to avoid it at all costs.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, it seems like you've been fairly successful. You're
Speaker 1: not failing or succeeding.
Speaker 4: I'm succeeding and not caring.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 1: Historically, women have been responsible for making the holidays happen,
Speaker 1: going back to the eighteenth century and probably even earlier.
Speaker 3: Before women entered the workforce, is a part It was
Speaker 3: a part of their duties as a housewife. This duty
Speaker 3: has been solidified through various time periods and by various institutions,
Speaker 3: cultural movements, and societal constructs like the cult of domesticity,
Speaker 3: the cultivated image of the perfect housewife and mother, and
Speaker 3: even religion. Kirk Cameron recently.
Speaker 1: Posted a video directed at women in which she said,
Speaker 1: let your children and your family see your joy in
Speaker 1: the way that you decorate your home this Christmas. In
Speaker 1: the food that you cook, the songs you sing, the
Speaker 1: stories you tell, and the traditions you keep several Christian circles.
Speaker 1: This is still viewed. All of those things still viewed
Speaker 1: as a women's duty. To make Christmas run smoothly for
Speaker 1: her family.
Speaker 4: Oh that quote made me nauseous.
Speaker 3: It's it's not good. Yeah, it's really bad.
Speaker 4: If you love it, then love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you do you but yeah, don't be sure
Speaker 2: status and whether or not you're doing well as a
Speaker 2: parent or a wife on that bs.
Speaker 4: Yeah yet nah.
Speaker 1: And even as women have gotten jobs, the expectation that
Speaker 1: will take charge of the holidays hasn't changed. Oh and also,
Speaker 1: just to be clear, being a housewife is a job.
Speaker 3: It's a job. It is very hard.
Speaker 1: It's just an unpaid and unvalued one. And yeah, why
Speaker 1: is it that women's work isn't seen as real work.
Speaker 1: It's just something or expected to do without pay, without recognition,
Speaker 1: and perhaps it might even cost us to do it.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 4: Interesting, Christmas is expensive?
Speaker 3: It is so expensive?
Speaker 4: Are expensive?
Speaker 3: Yes, we're going to get more into Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. As we've discussed on the show, women are still
Speaker 2: doing more of the housework when compared to men in
Speaker 2: heterosexual relationships or situations. They also are doing more of
Speaker 2: the household budgeting, which is a major headache during the
Speaker 2: holidays obviously, and also obviously being responsible for gift and
Speaker 2: thoughtful ones can put a dent in a woman's finances
Speaker 2: a huge did. Going back to those top reasons for
Speaker 2: holiday stress, two of them, gift giving and money are
Speaker 2: all wrapped up into this, and this further penalizes lower
Speaker 2: and middle class women who might be working more than
Speaker 2: one job and are enabled to afford childcare or other
Speaker 2: help that could alleviate some holiday stress. So women spend
Speaker 2: considerably more time and money when it comes to gifts,
Speaker 2: more out of buying for a wider network of people
Speaker 2: than a one on one comparison.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so to kind of explain that a bit more,
Speaker 1: we did want to focus on gift giving for a
Speaker 1: second because that is such a huge part of holiday stress.
Speaker 3: Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait wait.
Speaker 1: Way back a host past host Kristin and Molly did
Speaker 1: an episode on whether men or women we are better
Speaker 1: at gift giving, So you can find that in archive
Speaker 1: if you want. But right now, brief overview, there is
Speaker 1: actually a decent amount of research around gender differences and
Speaker 1: gift giving, and that research is found that in general,
Speaker 1: gift giving is important to our social relationships around the world.
Speaker 1: Bad gifts can negatively impact relationships, and men are far
Speaker 1: more judgmental of bad gifts, while women are more likely
Speaker 1: to downplay disappointment to protect the relationship and the other
Speaker 1: person's feelings, and women by gifts for a wider group
Speaker 1: of friends, so they spend more money on gifts and
Speaker 1: they are generally better at selecting gifts. This sort of
Speaker 1: goes back to what we discussed in our original Emotional
Speaker 1: Labor episode that women are more willing to put in
Speaker 1: the work and invest in friend groups other than men.
Speaker 1: That goes back to I know we brought it up
Speaker 1: recently in our heartbreak episode, but how female waters have
Speaker 1: more positive health outcomes than male widowers and they think
Speaker 1: it has to do with this wider support group. The
Speaker 1: research suggests that it has to do with this better
Speaker 1: gift giving has to do with interpersonal interest, which is
Speaker 1: having an interest in other people, and interpersonal reactivity, which
Speaker 1: is the ability to take on another person's perspective. It
Speaker 1: could also have to do with reputation or to create
Speaker 1: a sense of superiority or indebtedness, or to show off,
Speaker 1: and or this expectation that we put on women that
Speaker 1: we keep talking about that you have to be good
Speaker 1: at these things.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The research is also found women are both more likely
Speaker 1: to give and to receive, and that men with more
Speaker 1: egalitarian views and gay men were more likely to be
Speaker 1: more involved in gift giving. One study found that male
Speaker 1: to male gifts only accounted for four percent of gift giving.
Speaker 1: It also found that a lot of male gift giving.
Speaker 1: In a lot of male gift giving, the gift is
Speaker 1: actually picked out and sometimes purchased and wrapped by the woman.
Speaker 1: In the context of heterosexual relationships, makes my heart hurt.
Speaker 3: If that's how.
Speaker 4: You like it to be, great, why no presence, bro.
Speaker 1: My mom definitely did this any other The letter always says,
Speaker 1: like in her handwriting to Susan from Michael, like.
Speaker 2: I do have a tradition where my father sends me
Speaker 2: Valentine's Day candy and has for years, and he's so
Speaker 2: proud of the fact that he has picked out the
Speaker 2: candy for me, the specific whatever, handpicked and made sure
Speaker 2: to tell me I picked this out for you, so
Speaker 2: well I know that it wasn't my mother, right.
Speaker 3: Right, right right.
Speaker 1: Yet another study into gift giving found women view gift
Speaker 1: giving as a responsibility and obligation to be checked off
Speaker 1: of a list that they sometimes enjoy and sometimes don't,
Speaker 1: whereas men see it as a chance to get something
Speaker 1: for someone else that brings.
Speaker 3: Them as in the men pleasure.
Speaker 1: A lot of these studies were conducted in Western societies, though,
Speaker 1: so again, we'd love to hear from listeners from elsewhere.
Speaker 2: From a study called The Perfect Present, Gift giving and
Speaker 2: gender norms among gifters, women ruled they not only spend
Speaker 2: more time on gifts and give gifts to more people,
Speaker 2: but they also invest more of their ideas of themselves
Speaker 2: and the relationships in the process. This is part of
Speaker 2: what makes women the single largest consumer group worldwide. If
Speaker 2: we align these fightings with poverty statistics, we could extrapolate
Speaker 2: that ginger expectations and social pressures around gifting stressed women
Speaker 2: both economically and psychically. Poverty rates are higher among women,
Speaker 2: and more than half of all children living in poverty
Speaker 2: are careful primarily by their mothers. The average person celebrating Christmas,
Speaker 2: Kwanza and Orhonka will spend eight hundred and four dollars
Speaker 2: and forty two cents, up nearly five percent over last
Speaker 2: year's actual seven hundred and sixty seven dollars and twenty
Speaker 2: seven cents, according to prosper Insights and Analytics studies, we
Speaker 2: could also bring into the conversation ginger toys and the
Speaker 2: impact that it has on reinforcing ginger contracts. And you
Speaker 2: can listen to our Action Figure episodes for more on that.
Speaker 1: Yes, and then there's the whole thing of giving women
Speaker 1: sexy lingerie, which they might totally be into, but in
Speaker 1: straight relationships unless a woman specifically asked for it. To me,
Speaker 1: it feels like it might be more of a gift
Speaker 1: for the dude or like also a vacuum or something,
Speaker 1: unless again, the person specifically asked for it enthusiastically.
Speaker 3: I really want this, right, Yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Really want an air fire oven.
Speaker 3: Oh she said it here noted noted.
Speaker 1: And there's a great example of this whole thing in
Speaker 1: The Simpsons when Homer buys Marge a bowling ball that
Speaker 1: has his name engraved in it and it is cut
Speaker 1: to fit his fingers perfect.
Speaker 3: Yes, in all fairness, I'll be fair.
Speaker 1: I was guilty of try and convince my little brother
Speaker 1: he really wanted whatever video game I really wanted when
Speaker 1: we were children.
Speaker 3: And he usually did. We had similar taste.
Speaker 1: But I'd be lying if I said I was being
Speaker 1: altrue at that game.
Speaker 3: I usually minds so long, and I'm like, well, I
Speaker 3: got to put some things on his right.
Speaker 4: I love you so much, so you would love this gift.
Speaker 3: You would really dig it, anecdotally, continued anecdotally, my dad
Speaker 3: never wrapped gifts, and the stuff he gave me was
Speaker 3: usually a random assortment of items, like a football a
Speaker 3: few years ago. Uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that sometimes I liked a lot of times
Speaker 1: I didn't. I do the bee, my bee. That was
Speaker 1: one of the random gifts that I think he just
Speaker 1: didn't think I'd like, but I really did. My mom,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, gets me stuff based on something
Speaker 1: I said in a random conversation months ago. I know
Speaker 1: a lot of the says have also shown that women's
Speaker 1: shop for Christmas all year round.
Speaker 3: Men started like the week of Christmas.
Speaker 2: And that is definitely my mother. She she shops all
Speaker 2: year around. She sees a good sell, she will get it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that is what I've discovered for me. She actually buys
Speaker 2: based on past likes. Oh yeah, so I may no
Speaker 2: longer like it, but it has a tradition to it,
Speaker 2: so I still end.
Speaker 4: Up getting it.
Speaker 2: It was kind of like those wooden angels I said
Speaker 2: one time, I liked one. I've got about fifty yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with them.
Speaker 1: I haven't aunt who did the same thing. I actually
Speaker 1: don't even remember saying. I like tea cups and I
Speaker 1: can't drink tea, but she gets a.
Speaker 4: Tea cup every year, so it's thoughtful.
Speaker 1: It is thoughtful, and they're pretty. I kind of use
Speaker 1: them as a decoration. I remember once my ex boyfriend
Speaker 1: he I can't remember why, but he was showing me
Speaker 1: a screenshot of his laptop and it was around Christmas time,
Speaker 1: and one of the tabs was.
Speaker 3: How to wrap a gift and that made me laugh.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm awful at wrapping gifts, and my mother is queen.
Speaker 2: She is the Martha Stewart of wrapping. It's always a
Speaker 2: piece of art. I really wish I could show you. Well,
Speaker 2: I'll take Peter's pictures this week. But all of us
Speaker 2: feel guilty in trying to open these presents because it's
Speaker 2: so elaborately beautiful. Yeah, and I'm like, okay, I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna put some brown tape on it. Yeah, maybe I'll
Speaker 2: put the newspaper here and my name onto the bag. Awesome,
Speaker 2: I will say gift bags on my favorite thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like gift bags and tissue paper I do.
Speaker 1: I wrap my mom's gift because she wraps mine and
Speaker 1: I used to be really good at wrapping, and.
Speaker 3: Something's gone terribly wrong. I don't know. I lost it somewhere.
Speaker 3: I lost my mojo.
Speaker 1: One year. I got pretty much everyone in my life
Speaker 1: a gift a couple of years ago, and that was
Speaker 1: a very expensive endeavor. But I have this note on
Speaker 1: my phone that I open when anyone mentions something that
Speaker 1: I think would be a good gift for them. So
Speaker 1: it kind of just I'm more of someone I would
Speaker 1: rather get a gift that I know you'll really love
Speaker 1: than just buy you something because it's Christmas time.
Speaker 3: And I've got to get you something.
Speaker 2: Thus far, you've done really well with my gifts. Yes,
Speaker 2: I just take you off for drinks.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that, though, I'd rather have that almost always.
Speaker 3: And I do want to say here, I.
Speaker 1: Have plenty, plenty, plenty of female friends who are terrible
Speaker 1: at gifts.
Speaker 3: Apologies, you know who you are? That to me? You, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I love drinks, that's number one.
Speaker 1: And I have a few male friends who are really
Speaker 1: great at them. So these are these are generalities we
Speaker 1: supported by research, but they're still kind of There are
Speaker 1: obviously exceptions, and it's really the societal expectation and pressure
Speaker 1: that's the heart of the issue here.
Speaker 3: If that's something that you love to do, that's great.
Speaker 4: I used to be really good at it and very thoughtful.
Speaker 4: I just got really tired.
Speaker 3: It's exhausting.
Speaker 1: It's probably the main point of this episode could really
Speaker 1: just be it's exhausting.
Speaker 2: As we're getting older, it's harder and harder to get
Speaker 2: you something that you may not already have bought yourself sure,
Speaker 2: or that you you know you don't necessarily need. It's
Speaker 2: kind of hard because it's not like, oh, I have everything.
Speaker 2: What do you give to someone who has everything?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: Right conversation?
Speaker 2: In our society, we assume that it's in women's nature
Speaker 2: to be more thoughtful and more able to manage the
Speaker 2: emotions of others. It comes with the territory of being emotional,
Speaker 2: which we all know isn't true. These things don't just
Speaker 2: come naturally or easily for all of us. Also, these
Speaker 2: emotions of ours only seem to be good when they're
Speaker 2: boosting men in some way, and other studies have found
Speaker 2: because women are painted as more caring and giving, they
Speaker 2: feel the need to perceive themselves that way. So nevertheless,
Speaker 2: then the expectation contributes to an environment that rewards been
Speaker 2: for doing what women are simply expected to do and
Speaker 2: punished for not doing it. And studies have found that
Speaker 2: women do a brunt of the work of kinship that is,
Speaker 2: an interpersonal network of family and friends, whether they are
Speaker 2: hers or not, basically the work of maintaining social ties,
Speaker 2: which absolutely is work in the heterosexual context. If the
Speaker 2: wife or mom dies, the work is left undone. And
Speaker 2: it was spoken about yep, and the emotional labor episode.
Speaker 2: And one study posits that because the holidays are primarily
Speaker 2: about children and traditionally children have been women's responsibilities by proxy,
Speaker 2: the holidays and making the magical has always become or.
Speaker 4: Is women's responsibilities.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I found a really interesting study about the work behind
Speaker 1: what we culturally conceive as love that really made me
Speaker 1: think about the gender differences and how we expect people
Speaker 1: to express love for women. I would argue that this
Speaker 1: planning of the holiday has gotten twisted up with how
Speaker 1: we demonstrate our love and at the same time our value, Like,
Speaker 1: look at how much I'm contributing, and I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's wrong if that's how someone truly wants to show
Speaker 1: their love, but the obligation to do so or else
Speaker 1: be judged as not loving or caring. That's a problem
Speaker 1: for me. My brothers, I'll say, they will help if
Speaker 1: I ask with all of these things, the decorations in particular,
Speaker 1: but then it's my responsibility to delegate to.
Speaker 3: Show them how to do everything, and them.
Speaker 1: Growing increasingly more annoyed, and all the while that expectation
Speaker 1: is that I am the one that will do it,
Speaker 1: and that helping me is something that they do.
Speaker 3: I have the kindness of their hearts.
Speaker 1: And it should be complimented, whereas I'm just gonna I
Speaker 1: guess spent my day doing this.
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 1: And now we've got to talk about the kids, all
Speaker 1: the children, the children. But first we've got to take
Speaker 1: a quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 3: Thank you sponsor. Okay, So I'm a single lady, are you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've got enough stress, thank you very much.
Speaker 1: And Samantha and I have talked about the single lady
Speaker 1: stress of being asked by all your family members why
Speaker 1: you're single around the holidays. But I have plenty of
Speaker 1: female friends who have children and they have things on
Speaker 1: their plate that I don't when it comes to the holidays.
Speaker 3: A lot, a lot of very stressful things, right, so
Speaker 3: many things.
Speaker 1: Yes, Taking pictures for holiday cards also defensive, and sending
Speaker 1: those out, booking the photographer, finding outfits, choosing the best photo,
Speaker 1: handwriting messages and addresses, taking the kids to see Santa,
Speaker 1: baking cookies for a holiday function at school, tipping the
Speaker 1: post worker, Contacting everyone and wishing them happy holidays on
Speaker 1: both sides of the family if a significant other is involved.
Speaker 3: This is one of my biggest pet peeves. I do
Speaker 3: not like that. Again, if you like it, good for you.
Speaker 1: But why am I suddenly having to contact your mom
Speaker 1: and tell her happy holidays?
Speaker 3: Anyway? So that's my problem.
Speaker 1: Getting gifts for the kids, hiding those gifts, making Christmas magical.
Speaker 1: That might involve, you know, one year, my parents did
Speaker 1: a whole They got on the roof and yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a whole thing, and I mean it really did.
Speaker 3: It made it magical.
Speaker 1: But my gosh, it must have been so much work
Speaker 1: a new one, moving the elf on the shelf, constantly, constantly, constantly,
Speaker 1: and smiling through all of that. That is a lot
Speaker 1: of work and again exhaust sure. One of the biggest
Speaker 1: things when you're looking at arguments around emotional labor what
Speaker 1: we have sort of pop culturally been calling emotional labor.
Speaker 3: Just don't do those things then.
Speaker 1: And if you don't, you could not do them, but
Speaker 1: it would come at the cost of disappointment of loved ones,
Speaker 1: maybe voice disappointment, right.
Speaker 4: As well as probably judgment from some judgment.
Speaker 3: And in the case of a kid, it's.
Speaker 4: Sad, I sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's expected that women will consider the feelings of others,
Speaker 1: so not doing so is seen as a failure, and
Speaker 1: with kids involved, this expectation, reinforced by an enormous library
Speaker 1: of holiday movies and women's magazines, is all.
Speaker 2: The higher, right, And obviously Kurt Cameron's little comment right
Speaker 2: that was recently made, and I think it's fair to say.
Speaker 2: I know my friend groups, the men or the partners
Speaker 2: and spouses have absolutely it is fifty to fifty for them,
Speaker 2: and they will do a lot of it as well. Now, yeah,
Speaker 2: but as we see, still not the cultural norm and
Speaker 2: it should.
Speaker 1: Be right absolutely in my family, I was just thinking
Speaker 1: of the little things my mom did that made it
Speaker 1: magical that I probably didn't appreciate how much work and
Speaker 1: planning went into them. One of my favorites was we
Speaker 1: make gingerbread cookies every year, which requires at least one
Speaker 1: day to let the dough chill in the fridge and
Speaker 1: a lot of cleaning afterwards. Are very messy cookie to make.
Speaker 1: She also used to make the gingerbread man or woman.
Speaker 1: One of them would run away and would leave clues
Speaker 1: around the house as to its whereabouts. She did this
Speaker 1: for the first time when I was fourteen, and I
Speaker 1: loved it, wh like I immediately fell in love with
Speaker 1: the whole thing.
Speaker 4: That's really elaborate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was so fun. She knows that really competitive.
Speaker 1: Like I've said in previous episodes, she still hides Easter
Speaker 1: eggs for me, but because I loved it so much,
Speaker 1: it became a thing she did every year, and she
Speaker 1: confided me once I became older that she found it
Speaker 1: really stressful because eventually, like you run out of clue ideas,
Speaker 1: that's like where else is it gonna go? So things
Speaker 1: like that they really do involve a lot more than
Speaker 1: perhaps we recognize. She also used to get out her
Speaker 1: fanciest dishes, but over the years to make the holidays
Speaker 1: less stressful.
Speaker 2: We don't do it anymore, right, My family has changed
Speaker 2: holiday mills a lot, and it's become rather than the
Speaker 2: full feast. Yeah, sometimes it's become sandwiches because my mom
Speaker 2: is like, I'm not doing it this year. That's fair, mom,
Speaker 2: that's fair. Sometimes she will do a lasagna, so like
Speaker 2: an Italian throwback.
Speaker 4: Nobody my family's a time.
Speaker 2: And so she would do things like that as well
Speaker 2: as like Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4: If we had a.
Speaker 2: Giant feast during Thanksgiving, Christmas is going to be lesser,
Speaker 2: really what we like. It's just kind of because she's like,
Speaker 2: I do all of this, and she puts so much
Speaker 2: on her plate.
Speaker 4: We all end up the sinking.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fine, it's fine. She's gonna eat sandwiches. I
Speaker 2: love sandwiches, but that's still elaborate sandwiches. My mom has
Speaker 2: four types of bread that's on the table, as well
Speaker 2: as five meats or options, as well as a lot
Speaker 2: of sides, so it's still elaborate. But yeah, she's as
Speaker 2: we've gotten older, she would slow down. But now that
Speaker 2: the child grand children are older, she's kind of come
Speaker 2: back to that mentality a little bit. Trying to celebrate
Speaker 2: for the younger kids, but great grandkids.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's kind of like back to Okay, we're
Speaker 2: celebrating a little less because they don't know exactly what's
Speaker 2: going on, and all of her grandkids are teenagers so
Speaker 2: they don't care as much and we're all adult.
Speaker 4: So but it's the whole thing.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 1: That's something that I've h and I don't want to
Speaker 1: make it sound like so I cook the meal, but
Speaker 1: my mom is there the whole time, and she's she helps, and.
Speaker 3: I have made it into a thing that I enjoy.
Speaker 1: It's just the stress and the obligation, mostly of the
Speaker 1: planning and making sure everything comes out at the right time.
Speaker 3: And we have.
Speaker 1: Slowly and it's mostly me to the annoyance of everyone else.
Speaker 1: But since I'm cooking it, I'm like, we're not cooking
Speaker 1: that anymore because I don't really like it, and if
Speaker 1: you want it, you can cook it. So our menu
Speaker 1: has also gotten a little bit more condensed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've taken a lot more responsibility. I guess you're
Speaker 2: the only female in your family, as I'm the youngest
Speaker 2: and I'm not the only female. Yeah, I kind of
Speaker 2: going to my sister and my sister in laws and
Speaker 2: I just kind of show up. I'm still children treated
Speaker 2: like at the teenager, which is cool. Yeah, I'm just
Speaker 2: in the kids table, not do things great.
Speaker 1: I actually was thinking about that the other day, and
Speaker 1: I was trying to reason out why in my personal experience,
Speaker 1: the women do make the holidays happen. And one of
Speaker 1: them is the whole reason I started cooking. Is I
Speaker 1: had it in my head. I was I was in
Speaker 1: high school. I thought, you know, when I get married,
Speaker 1: I won't know how to cook anything. So I asked
Speaker 1: my mom one year, I want to learn how to
Speaker 1: cook all of the things that you cook so I
Speaker 1: can make it for what I thought I was going
Speaker 1: to have my own family, and I want to be
Speaker 1: able to do it. And just that tradition of passing
Speaker 1: on recipes and traditions, and then from there it just
Speaker 1: became the next years or practice year, and now every
Speaker 1: years practice That's okay, I it is mostly my fault,
Speaker 1: that's okay. Also, my mom has a policy of silly
Speaker 1: hats so we won't fight with each other. That is
Speaker 1: surprisingly effective, and I think I should write a blog
Speaker 1: post about it.
Speaker 3: If you know how to deal with the holidays, silly hats.
Speaker 1: But that's another example of managing the emotions of others.
Speaker 1: And it does feel like the holidays have been sold.
Speaker 1: Is this wonderful time where everyone is happy, and if
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen, then.
Speaker 3: You're doing them wrong or something's gone wrong.
Speaker 1: And the job of everyone making everyone happy falls so
Speaker 1: often to women.
Speaker 3: And a lot of us I'm sure a lot of listeners.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: We don't get along with our family all the time.
Speaker 1: So it's like this one time of year, we're all
Speaker 1: performing and if only we can make it this holiday great,
Speaker 1: then we can stay together. If I can make this
Speaker 1: one good enough, I can keep this family together. And
Speaker 1: that's something that I really internalized. I've recently come to
Speaker 1: realize that my need to make people happy is so strong,
Speaker 1: and it's so much a part of how I've defined
Speaker 1: myself for so long. I literally sometimes feel like I'm
Speaker 1: a comedian coming on stage after the last comedian who
Speaker 1: totally bombed, and I've got to like.
Speaker 3: Salvage this situation.
Speaker 1: And it's it's tiring, but it's to the point that
Speaker 1: I made twenty dollars. Somebody gave me twenty dollars at
Speaker 1: my dad's wake for being entertaining.
Speaker 4: Entertaining. Yeah, I'm best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always seeing as the sarcastic, witty one. So
Speaker 2: I'll come in with a little bit of banter and
Speaker 2: then just sit quietly and hopes that no one brings up.
Speaker 4: Hold, that's my new family tradition.
Speaker 3: It's a good one.
Speaker 2: So we see this in so many holiday movies. The
Speaker 2: dad is working too hard, neglecting his kids, or his
Speaker 2: kids forgets to get the gift, burns the food, which
Speaker 2: sounds like this clause is one that's claus. Yeah, he
Speaker 2: realizes he has to put in some effort. Even if
Speaker 2: you look at Santa Claus. He gets all the credit
Speaker 2: for delivering these toys one day a year, but Missus
Speaker 2: Claus is doing all the stuff behind the scenes all
Speaker 2: the time, thanklessly, and gets no credit.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So in a Bad Mom's Christmas, in which one of
Speaker 2: the characters says, your mom, moms don't enjoy, we give joy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find that there's only a handful of a
Speaker 1: much more Halloween horror movie.
Speaker 3: Person.
Speaker 1: Yes, there are a handful of holiday movies I watch
Speaker 1: every year, and I find that the plot line is
Speaker 1: always man working too hard, wife is doing all this
Speaker 1: stuff in the background and like, one day, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be so upset that you miss this time with whoever,
Speaker 1: poor Johnny.
Speaker 3: And then they do one they get like one gift.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's like, oh, it was the perfect gift.
Speaker 1: But a lot of times it was the wife who
Speaker 1: said you should have gotten that months ago.
Speaker 4: Right, it really is.
Speaker 2: I try to watch all of these holiday movies because
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm failing because I don't like Christmas
Speaker 2: and I've tried to make myself like it, and that
Speaker 2: has a lot of emotional trauma baggage and that, and
Speaker 2: which is the reason I don't like it. But I
Speaker 2: do love watching holiday movies trying to get into.
Speaker 4: The spirit and one of and my family watches it too.
Speaker 2: My dad's favorite movie is The Santa Claus Yeah, as
Speaker 2: we just recently talked about.
Speaker 1: But it is.
Speaker 2: Hilarious because he is an awful father, yeah, and the
Speaker 2: only redeeming thing is he gets tricked into being Santa Claus,
Speaker 2: who's then again neglects is good because he has to
Speaker 2: be Santa Claus. But everything's okay because he's Santa Claus.
Speaker 2: Like it's just amazing, And the mom looks like the
Speaker 2: bad guy just like in everything else. Yeah, step stepped
Speaker 2: out and this one is just a complete idiot portrayed
Speaker 2: as an idiot.
Speaker 4: Anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I also like that movie.
Speaker 1: But it is funny how it reminds me of There's
Speaker 1: this list called the Iceman List. It's about how, if
Speaker 1: you rewatch a lot of movies from the eighties, the
Speaker 1: bad guy is actually probably right right.
Speaker 3: And the mom in that.
Speaker 1: Movie, I feel if you had an ex who all
Speaker 1: of a sudden gained all this way and looked a
Speaker 1: certain way and was saying, well, the sun is saying
Speaker 1: the Santa Claus, I would have some concerns.
Speaker 3: Really, I think that's legitimate.
Speaker 2: He's not mentally stable. This is how he's trying to
Speaker 2: win my child over.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, now we're going on a different road. Be
Speaker 1: on the lookout for the Santa Claus, the Feminist Movie.
Speaker 1: Another thing I wanted to bring up is magazines, because
Speaker 1: I've noticed around this time magazines filled with recipes and
Speaker 1: life hacks to make it look like pulling off the
Speaker 1: holidays is so easy, so it's supposed to look effortless.
Speaker 1: And I've also found so many advice pieces and articles
Speaker 1: researching for this episode about how to fin all the
Speaker 1: holiday things that you need to fit in on top
Speaker 1: of a full time job with children in the mix,
Speaker 1: and make it look easy.
Speaker 3: And that's part of the equation too. Here.
Speaker 1: Not only are we putting in all of this hard work,
Speaker 1: we're acting like it's not hard work.
Speaker 3: We're hiding it away.
Speaker 1: And I feel like this is something as women were
Speaker 1: conditioned to not complain, to be graceful under pressure, Otherwise.
Speaker 3: You'll be the bad type of emotional. Right.
Speaker 2: You need to show that you have it all, and
Speaker 2: that means you've gotten all of your holiday the core.
Speaker 4: Yeah, perfect place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so many movies also about that, about putting up
Speaker 1: the usually I find it in movies men do that
Speaker 1: part then, but putting up the lights and competing.
Speaker 3: With your neighbors.
Speaker 1: So everything we're talking about in this episode is not
Speaker 1: just confined to the home. It can even ripple out
Speaker 1: to work and things like planning an office party or
Speaker 1: a secret Santa exchange, or for those in the retail
Speaker 1: or service industry, dealing with stressed out shoppers or diners
Speaker 1: or what have you.
Speaker 2: Right, women in general place really high expectations on themselves.
Speaker 2: We know this combined with the fact that for a
Speaker 2: lot of us we grew up watching our grandmothers and
Speaker 2: our mothers doing this holiday labor, and we feel the
Speaker 2: need to fill that role, which is.
Speaker 4: What you're seem to be doing, Andy, and I refuse
Speaker 4: to do.
Speaker 2: All of this can be exacerbated by things like seasonal
Speaker 2: effective disorder, anxiety or depression, And as I said, a
Speaker 2: lot of my own background is that I have a
Speaker 2: lot of trauma attached to this time of year.
Speaker 4: So I'm like, this is the worst holiday of the
Speaker 4: year and I hate.
Speaker 2: Everything, but I'm trying to get it together and become
Speaker 2: an adult.
Speaker 4: And being like I can handle Christmas, I can like it.
Speaker 4: My mother, God.
Speaker 2: Bless her, she has tried for years because I've never
Speaker 2: really liked it, and she tried for years from guilting
Speaker 2: me to trying to make everything perfect for me to
Speaker 2: get me to like this holiday because she loves it
Speaker 2: so much. And of course they are very religious, and
Speaker 2: that has a whole different perspective for them as well.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think for me this type of year,
Speaker 2: I want to ignore it. And I couldn't imagine what
Speaker 2: that would be like as a mother. Sure that just
Speaker 2: that terrifies me. I'm like, I'm gonna fail as a
Speaker 2: mother if I ever did become one, because I don't
Speaker 2: enjoy these holidays. But I've been told as a single person,
Speaker 2: if you had kids, you would like this holiday more.
Speaker 4: You would understand.
Speaker 3: I can see.
Speaker 1: I can see how it's both extremely stressful but can
Speaker 1: be extremely rewarding to make a child feel that type
Speaker 1: of joy.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: There's when my siblings who are divorced competition and who
Speaker 2: can give the most or.
Speaker 4: Make them the happiest.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right about that. That as well.
Speaker 3: It's poof, that's one word for it. We do have
Speaker 3: some advice.
Speaker 1: We try to end on advice usually, but vers we
Speaker 1: have one more quick break forward from our sponsor.
Speaker 3: And we're back. Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 1: And yes, there are some tips out there if the
Speaker 1: holidays are something that's stressful for you.
Speaker 3: Yes, here we go.
Speaker 2: So my people, we'll all stress stress out. So take
Speaker 2: time for self care and then that might be whatever
Speaker 2: you wanted to be reading, yoga, meditation, making time for friends,
Speaker 2: or for me sitting in a fiddle position in the
Speaker 2: corner waiting for the season.
Speaker 4: To go away in the darkness.
Speaker 3: Very specific.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, hey, you know it works for you.
Speaker 1: Experts also recommend stepping back from social media if you
Speaker 1: find yourself feeling stressed. We've talked about before. Playing that
Speaker 1: comparison game is never good. It can make you feel
Speaker 1: like everyone is having a better holiday than you.
Speaker 3: Everyone did a quote better job than you.
Speaker 4: Love the comparisons.
Speaker 2: If you're not the one behind the holiday stuff, find
Speaker 2: ways to support that person unasked. Stock up on wrapping supplies,
Speaker 2: help with gift buying and wrapping, handle.
Speaker 4: The cars through the dishes.
Speaker 2: If a child is in the mix, figure out if
Speaker 2: they're going to need to bring dishes to school or
Speaker 2: something like that. Coordinate with the extended family, and of
Speaker 2: course notice and express your gratitude.
Speaker 4: I mean, it is Christmas, tis the seasons.
Speaker 1: The season for that stuff. Yes, and again I do
Speaker 1: want to say I actually, really, really really love cooking.
Speaker 1: I love the decorations. I honestly think if I didn't
Speaker 1: do it one year, my brothers would not care. They
Speaker 1: wouldn't care at all except about the food. But like,
Speaker 1: the decorations is not their thing. But I really like it.
Speaker 1: But I don't like that expectation that I'm the one
Speaker 1: that will do it. Planning this big meal every Betty's
Speaker 1: favorite thing, although again I have started to cut back
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, and some things have prepped days before.
Speaker 1: And also I work and they don't give us the
Speaker 1: day before Thanksgiving off getting all the ingredients, setting the table.
Speaker 1: It is a lot, but I have turned it into
Speaker 1: a time that I get to spend with my mom
Speaker 1: and we listen to music and we drink wine and
Speaker 1: we talk.
Speaker 3: And I like it. It's one of my favorite things.
Speaker 1: I think that's my favorite thing about the holidays, spending
Speaker 1: that time with my mom. It still sucks that if
Speaker 1: one year I decided I really didn't want to do it,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't happen, or either my mom would do it,
Speaker 1: and then I'd feel guilty about it. But my notorious
Speaker 1: hatred of doing the dishes has led to me not
Speaker 1: doing them anymore. My brother and his fiance do them,
Speaker 1: so that is it, Honestly is usually if I hate
Speaker 1: doing the dishes.
Speaker 4: Is he doing it because his fiance suggested it?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I have no way of knowing without.
Speaker 1: Asking, but I mean he in particular, he knows how
Speaker 1: much I hate doing the dishes because We've got a
Speaker 1: huge fight about it one year, So.
Speaker 3: I'm glad that that's gone away.
Speaker 1: And yeah, until we start recognizing and valuing the work
Speaker 1: women do, this is going to be a thing, right.
Speaker 2: And for those who have recognized, yes, that this is
Speaker 2: what women do and have taken up part of the responsibility,
Speaker 2: good job.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, proud of you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm proud of you women that were doing
Speaker 3: it all.
Speaker 4: Right, and yeah, speak up, encourage others, be an example.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and we would love to hear LGBTQ plus
Speaker 1: stories as well, because a lot of this was specifically
Speaker 1: heterosexual situation, so right, Yeah, love to know how it
Speaker 1: plays out in different types of relationships. But that brings
Speaker 1: us to the end of this, our emotional labor holiday.
Speaker 4: Happy holidays, Holidays.
Speaker 3: Hopefully they are not stressful.
Speaker 1: They're enjoyable and more than a freaking fourth of you
Speaker 1: can relax.
Speaker 3: That blew my mind. It makes sense.
Speaker 4: But wow, if you want to hide, you can hide
Speaker 4: with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you want any company, Samantha, I'm always
Speaker 1: available if you don't want me around.
Speaker 3: Though.
Speaker 2: That weird thing that I start watching holiday movies, but
Speaker 2: they're not really holiday movies. So you know the fourth
Speaker 2: about die Hard, die Hard, you know, I hope we
Speaker 2: have to talk about that. But then Harry Potter for
Speaker 2: some reason puts Potter, it's.
Speaker 3: Both Halloween and Chriss.
Speaker 4: Yeah, fine, yeah, I do that.
Speaker 2: And then I do watch horror movies just to be
Speaker 2: angry about not angry, but to put my emotions into something.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, there we go.
Speaker 2: Now I'm gonna do more destruction now with all of
Speaker 2: these horror films.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of Christmas harror movies. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna put that out there.
Speaker 4: I haven't watched.
Speaker 1: I might be on a panel about that actually coming up.
Speaker 1: Somebody asked me, do you have any examples? Twenty examples? Okay,
Speaker 1: I think you might be good for this, all right. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I did want to read some listener mail to close up,
Speaker 1: Everett wrote, I was really excited to see the episode
Speaker 1: about farming in your podcast feed. I love the show,
Speaker 1: by the way, Oh thank you. I was excited because
Speaker 1: that's what I do. I'm still in school, but for
Speaker 1: a few weeks in the summer and on saturdays in
Speaker 1: the academic year, I work with the Food Project. We're
Speaker 1: based out of Massachusetts in the North Shore and Greater Boston.
Speaker 1: We do a lot of work related to the stuff
Speaker 1: you talked about, food justice and social justice, plus a
Speaker 1: youth component. A big part to me is how we
Speaker 1: bring people from across these communities and sure we have
Speaker 1: a diverse group. Every summer, we hire thirty six new
Speaker 1: high school aged people in both our regions for six weeks.
Speaker 1: They work together on our farms. They could be from
Speaker 1: a homogeneous sheltered community or a more urban one where
Speaker 1: gardening isn't common, or any other background, and we meet
Speaker 1: people that we wouldn't otherwise since the system doesn't tend
Speaker 1: to make communication between these places very easy. I love
Speaker 1: the Food Project and I love the people. I consider
Speaker 1: it like family. We educate communities and the youth in
Speaker 1: our programs, and there's lots of opportunities for leadership by youth.
Speaker 1: We build raisedbed gardens and urban communities that don't have
Speaker 1: a lot of access to fresh food, as well as
Speaker 1: distributing food at hunger relief organizations or through our farmer's market.
Speaker 1: We've done work with state programs to make farmer's markets
Speaker 1: more affordable too. I could genuinely keep talking for three hours,
Speaker 1: so I'll leave a link to our website if you're
Speaker 1: interested and that link is Thefoodproject dot org.
Speaker 3: That sounds like you're doing amazing work. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, food justice is something that's really important to me.
Speaker 1: This sounds really cool and we appreciate you sharing it.
Speaker 1: Ruth wrote, I just listened to your Female Monsters show
Speaker 1: and I thought of a couple of characters who are
Speaker 1: tangentially related to the topic. Neither are truly monsters, but
Speaker 1: they fit the parameters of a couple of the topics mentioned.
Speaker 1: The first is a character whose name escapes me, but
Speaker 1: she was played by Isabella Russellini in the movie Death
Speaker 1: Becomes Herr.
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about this movie for so because I
Speaker 2: can't I was like, why haven't we mentioned it? And
Speaker 2: then there was then I thought it back. I was like,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of problems. Oh, I haven't seen
Speaker 2: it within that movie, and I think it's satire.
Speaker 4: It is shied as well.
Speaker 2: But this whole becoming young, staying youngest thing, beautiful saint,
Speaker 2: then like, this is very problematic, and of course it
Speaker 2: makes the male character the hero sure of all, the
Speaker 2: whole thing kind of makes the met look at bout.
Speaker 4: Yes, but it is a really good movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would have I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: the monsters we mentioned their ultimate goal was youth and beauty,
Speaker 1: and yes, that's why they did the things, the monstrous
Speaker 1: things they did.
Speaker 4: It's a perfect example.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll have to check it out.
Speaker 4: You haven't seen it?
Speaker 3: No, my, oh my, Okay. Anyway, Ruth continues.
Speaker 1: About that she is the character who gives two women
Speaker 1: played by Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep, the power of
Speaker 1: immortality and eternal youth at a great price. Of course,
Speaker 1: while not strictly speaking a monster, she plays in the
Speaker 1: fears of becoming old and ugly, losing their beauty. She
Speaker 1: gives them an quote olixer to drink, and things do
Speaker 1: not work out as they expect. I imagine there was
Speaker 1: an unexpected moral in the story, But the evil beautiful
Speaker 1: which remains the second is more mundane. But it makes
Speaker 1: me stop and think about the naming of the character
Speaker 1: and the TV show cheers the most terrifying thing of all.
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: Fraser's wife is named Alilith. She is considered cold and calculating.
Speaker 1: She is a psychiatrist and very good at scaring the
Speaker 1: crep out of all of Fraser's friends. She's very pale
Speaker 1: with very dark hair, played by the amazing bb Newarth.
Speaker 3: She's not a true villain, but she is.
Speaker 1: Portrayed in that light because she is different from other women,
Speaker 1: because she wants things her way, and because she's still beautiful.
Speaker 1: Is the naming of the character symbolic. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but it gives me pause to think about a couple
Speaker 1: of characters I had otherwise passed by. Oh also, there
Speaker 1: was a book written by an author named George MacDonald
Speaker 1: called Alilith, which was a novel about this evil woman
Speaker 1: from the Biblical story. She's quite a monster in that one.
Speaker 1: I love the lift yeah, forever and ever.
Speaker 2: And I didn't realize because I didn't watch the second
Speaker 2: season and I just didn't pay attention.
Speaker 4: Uh, Sabrina the new one, Yeah, Lilith is one.
Speaker 3: Of the main characters.
Speaker 2: And I kind of completely forgot it completely, And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh yeallo.
Speaker 3: A friend of mine brought that up to me.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, completely, like because I hadn't
Speaker 2: watched it in so long the first season and then
Speaker 2: I never watched the second and I just recently took
Speaker 2: it back up and I was like, oh, oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have got to say, I
Speaker 1: am loving all of these uh horror, and yeah.
Speaker 3: Please keep sending in suggestions.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, were gonna talk about this until
Speaker 4: next Halloween? I love it.
Speaker 1: I would absolutely do you know I would? And I
Speaker 1: always love a good recommendation for something to check out, right,
Speaker 1: So please keep sending those are away.
Speaker 2: Right, just so you know, because we did have the
Speaker 2: conversation about cuffing. We've had a couple of text talking
Speaker 2: to us about cuffing and other people other podcasts talking
Speaker 2: about it as well. As we got to mention when
Speaker 2: they were showing us a whole list of the seasons,
Speaker 2: and it shows like fall is cuffing season and this
Speaker 2: is what this is.
Speaker 4: It was really cute. I'll have to repost it, but I.
Speaker 3: Liked it a lot.
Speaker 2: While we're here, we want to do some shout outs
Speaker 2: while we were thinking about stress and loving each other,
Speaker 2: and so the season best Forever to Pods, which is
Speaker 2: a podcast by Alyssa who talks about friendships and the
Speaker 2: great stories behind them.
Speaker 4: And it's so great because I think it's such a.
Speaker 2: Different take on how to maintain or just talk about
Speaker 2: amazing friendships that have happened or she brings on different
Speaker 2: guests talking about different subjects, and then I think it's
Speaker 2: really cute. And also some kind of brown podcast, which
Speaker 2: is Natalie who identifies herself as indigenous black women, talks
Speaker 2: about race and ethnicity and being multi racial in the US,
Speaker 2: including interracial adoption which is rare, and she's also highlighted
Speaker 2: November I know it's over almost as the Native American
Speaker 2: Awareness Month, and she is brought in a whole series
Speaker 2: called Red November and bringing in different guests and having awesome, awesome,
Speaker 2: awesome episodes about that.
Speaker 4: So shout out to y'all. Yeah, we love it, Thank you.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, and thanks to the listeners who wrote in.
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, we would
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. You can email us at Stuffmedia,
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also find
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram
Speaker 1: at stuff Mom Never Told You. Thanks as always to
Speaker 1: our super producer Andrew Howard.
Speaker 3: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope a lot
Speaker 3: more good things are coming away. That's Boren's thing. I
Speaker 3: don't know why I.
Speaker 1: Did it, but hey, go check out saber pods while
Speaker 1: go say.
Speaker 4: Up sab, brain stuff, all the things I love A lot.
Speaker 3: More good things are coming here, lesurely.
Speaker 2: I hope that the holidays are not as stressful, and
Speaker 2: if it is, that you have a chance to take
Speaker 2: in what you need to rest.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's a nice sentiment. Stuff Mom Never Told You
Speaker 3: is a protection of iHeartRadio's house. Stuff Works.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or
Speaker 3: Wherever where you listen to your favorite shows.