Speaker 1: Jan Barry Sandlin left his third trial convicted of the
Speaker 1: murder of Matthew Golder, and in two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court of Georgia held up the verdict on appeal.
Speaker 1: He remains in a Florida prison and the consequences of
Speaker 1: his bad acts continued to reverberate. He will die in prison.
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Glass and this is Burden of Guilt. Episode eight,
Speaker 1: The Last Word. Tracy Riquel's story started in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: one and it isn't over yet. In the last episode,
Speaker 1: we learn more about the unfinished business that still weighs
Speaker 1: on her. Did Jan Barry Sanlin commit other murders and
Speaker 1: get away with them. I've reached out to Jan for
Speaker 1: an interview and he said yes, but the prison won't
Speaker 1: let us in. If that changes, we will update you.
Speaker 1: This series has been several years in the making, so
Speaker 1: we want to tie up some loose ends. Okay, Tracy Riquel,
Speaker 1: let's start here. You didn't go to Matthew's exhumation, and
Speaker 1: you were the reason it was happening, right. You wanted
Speaker 1: to explain why you didn't go. Matthew's exhumation was a
Speaker 1: pivotal point in the investigation and in Jan's conviction, the
Speaker 1: medical Examiner's office exhume Matthew's body with very little expectation
Speaker 1: of finding any remains to study after so many years.
Speaker 1: So just to set this up, here's what the district
Speaker 1: attorney and medical examiner told us.
Speaker 2: When we got there.
Speaker 3: It was a clear day, a little cool, and when
Speaker 3: I got to the grave site, the dirt had already
Speaker 3: been moved.
Speaker 4: I'd remember feeling a bit more somber.
Speaker 3: It seemed to me that we were disturbing a sleeping baby,
Speaker 3: and that.
Speaker 2: Really bothered me.
Speaker 1: Assistant District Attorney LeAnn Mangon attended the exhumation. She tried
Speaker 1: to support Kathy as she watched everything unfold. Tracy Raquel
Speaker 1: was not there.
Speaker 4: I remember her being quite emotional, crying, and I kind
Speaker 4: of took my cues from her.
Speaker 1: She wanted to stand back and.
Speaker 3: We let that happen.
Speaker 2: I didn't go to the exhumation because there was already
Speaker 2: so much media attention, and I knew that Kathy was
Speaker 2: going with the district attorneys and we were barely on
Speaker 2: speaking terms if that, and I just felt like it
Speaker 2: would be disrespectful, you know, to go and what stand
Speaker 2: on the other side of the cemetery away from her.
Speaker 1: Right, you didn't want to call more attention or attention
Speaker 1: in the wrong way to what was going on.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, the titchin needed to be about Matthew's death,
Speaker 2: his homicide and how are we going to take care
Speaker 2: of that? That needed to be the priority.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the mistrial for a sec You were
Speaker 1: told you couldn't watch the trial or read about it,
Speaker 1: but you did catch a glimpse of your mother on
Speaker 1: TV and you told the prosecution about that because it
Speaker 1: was the right thing to do. Let's listen to what
Speaker 1: the judge said about that.
Speaker 5: There has been an egregious violation of the witness of
Speaker 5: frustration room, which in the context of this case, is irreputable.
Speaker 1: You felt you were demonized for this.
Speaker 2: It's just how it was portrayed. You know, everything from
Speaker 2: the mistrial happening, what media press, I mean, I think
Speaker 2: that was bigger story than the fact that this case
Speaker 2: got reopened. Was like, Oh, the girl who you know
Speaker 2: has spent all her life trying to get this case reopen,
Speaker 2: just ruined it because she can't follow rules.
Speaker 1: The press was really hard on you.
Speaker 2: We've got a case that's down the tubes at this point.
Speaker 4: January Sandlin's attorney exploded in court this morning, outraged after
Speaker 4: Tracy Raymon admitted she saw news coverage of her father's
Speaker 4: trial yesterday, despite a judge's order not to watch or
Speaker 4: read anything about it until it was over.
Speaker 6: I don't think that I have done anything wrong to
Speaker 6: affect this man's right.
Speaker 2: So it's just a lot of humiliation. And then you know,
Speaker 2: Jan's calling me from the prison on the phone twenty
Speaker 2: four to forty eight hours saying, ha ha, you know
Speaker 2: you may you were going to win the battle, but
Speaker 2: I'm going to win the war. I mean, he was
Speaker 2: laughing at me.
Speaker 1: On another topic, there was something the DA's office. Let
Speaker 1: you know. It was an action taken by the de.
Speaker 2: Right after the mistrial happened. Jeff Brickman, Lianne and Jacom
Speaker 2: handed me a document and it was a falsified subpoena
Speaker 2: for medical records for me.
Speaker 1: You were not notified that Krin Mall had subpoenaed your records.
Speaker 1: She had been looking for what Kathy told the staff
Speaker 1: at the psychiatric hospital where she tried to commit you
Speaker 1: when you were a teenager, and neither you nor Kathy
Speaker 1: would have ever agreed to release your files, right, So
Speaker 1: what was it like for you to find out about that?
Speaker 2: It felt like a portrayal all over again. It was
Speaker 2: you know, hey, I can't defend this man, so I've
Speaker 2: got to get evidence about this child and try and
Speaker 2: get something done.
Speaker 1: Chracy Raquel ended up suing public defender Corin Mall, her office,
Speaker 1: and the hospital. The case was settled. Do you want
Speaker 1: to talk about the fact that Jan got married while
Speaker 1: all this was going on.
Speaker 2: I'd heard people say in prison, but really if he
Speaker 2: got married during the trial, what Yeah, it was the
Speaker 2: most bizarre thing. This woman was coming to see him
Speaker 2: and her daughter, which turned out to be Jan's daughter,
Speaker 2: and I think she was only sixteen or seventeen, but
Speaker 2: they were at the courthouse that I remember Leanne and
Speaker 2: Jeff calling me and saying, you're not going to believe this.
Speaker 1: And what's even crazier, the media covered it like it
Speaker 1: was an event.
Speaker 5: Who gives this woman to be married?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 5: Angela, Chalie, Charlene? Do you would you take Jan to
Speaker 5: be your witted husband? Do you take this man? Okay,
Speaker 5: say this for me, so I take Charlie to be
Speaker 5: my widded wife, to have and to hold from this
Speaker 5: day forward, words for rich or poor in sickness, and
Speaker 5: help see, and to love and to cherish till bell
Speaker 5: do us part.
Speaker 2: She was another one of those girls in high school
Speaker 2: who was just enamored with him or whatever.
Speaker 5: Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, mister and missus
Speaker 5: Janne sadly.
Speaker 2: I love him very much. I believe in his innocence,
Speaker 2: and I believe that there would definitely be a retrial,
Speaker 2: and when there is, they will have a turnaround of reboarding.
Speaker 1: All these women met him in high school and still
Speaker 1: have a thing for him.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand that is a whole separate thinking
Speaker 2: that I am not qualified to discuss them.
Speaker 1: Let's put Kathy's sister, your aunt June in the conversation.
Speaker 1: Because she got you out of the house, she gave
Speaker 1: you a job in her hair salon, She did a
Speaker 1: lot of wonderful things for you. She was very supportive,
Speaker 1: and then she disappeared.
Speaker 2: Well she did, and I love her still. She was
Speaker 2: somebody who was very important to me, and she was
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. To surrogate. Abuse is not
Speaker 2: a one generation thing. It is many generations. It takes
Speaker 2: many generations to get to certain places, and everybody in
Speaker 2: a family will handle that abuse differently. Kathy has always
Speaker 2: said that she grew up in an abusive environment.
Speaker 1: Do you think Aunt June would talk about any of
Speaker 1: the abuse because she was your advocate as a kid.
Speaker 1: We reached out to her.
Speaker 2: She said, oh, I'll do whatever you need. But when
Speaker 2: this podcast in the show was actually coming to fruition
Speaker 2: to panic, she's not going to be part of that.
Speaker 2: She's not going to discuss in a healthy way. For years,
Speaker 2: every time it would come up, she would roll her
Speaker 2: eyes and be like, some of my aunts and uncle
Speaker 2: handled it with drug abuse addiction, and some are mentally
Speaker 2: not stable. Then you have some that just felt like, hey,
Speaker 2: as far away as I can get from everything and
Speaker 2: as much money as I can make, and then I
Speaker 2: will be successful. And it doesn't exist. But there's a
Speaker 2: rule to that, and that rule is we don't ever
Speaker 2: talk about it because you can't go there.
Speaker 1: And Tracy Rikell and her aunt were clearly not aligned
Speaker 1: on the unfinished business Tracy Rikell talked about in our
Speaker 1: last episode.
Speaker 2: She would say, you know, it's not your responsibility to
Speaker 2: worry about William David Corn. It's not your responsibility to
Speaker 2: worry about Nancy Tegetter, you know, get over it. Just
Speaker 2: let it go.
Speaker 1: Nancy Tegeter was Jan's first wife, and William David Corn
Speaker 1: was the police officer that Tracy Rikel believes may have
Speaker 1: been murdered by Jam. Here's an email we got from
Speaker 1: a listener. This is really fascinating. So this listener says,
Speaker 1: I'm not done with this series, so maybe this question
Speaker 1: is premature, But what's the deal with Ted Golder? Wasn't
Speaker 1: Matthew his biological son? I thought that was the reason
Speaker 1: Jan didn't care about him. So where was he during
Speaker 1: the trial when Matthew died? Wouldn't he have been at
Speaker 1: the hospital and the funeral. He's never mentioned except when
Speaker 1: Tracy Riquel did the paternity test. Wouldn't he want to
Speaker 1: put Jan away for killing his kid?
Speaker 2: You know we've all.
Speaker 1: Had that question. That's a really good question. Let's go
Speaker 1: back to episode four where Tracy Riquel first told us
Speaker 1: about meeting Ted Goulder as an adult.
Speaker 6: He really wanted to know if I was his daughter.
Speaker 6: He asked if I would do a paternity test, which
Speaker 6: I sure Now, while we were waiting for the results
Speaker 6: to come back, and we talked daily, just about things
Speaker 6: and life and people, and it was a nice thing.
Speaker 6: The paternity test came back and he called and he said.
Speaker 2: You're not my daughter.
Speaker 6: And he said, you know what, you're a really nice woman.
Speaker 6: I wish the best for you, but I don't want
Speaker 6: anything else to do with you. You're not my child.
Speaker 6: And that was it. I never heard from him again.
Speaker 1: But wasn't he upset about Matthew's death? Did he ever
Speaker 1: say anything to you about it?
Speaker 2: I mean, the only thing he said was he always
Speaker 2: thought he did it too.
Speaker 1: That's really something, because I think this listener is right.
Speaker 1: I mean, you'd think that he would be really happy
Speaker 1: about this and really angry about his son's death.
Speaker 2: You'd think you would. Yeah, maybe it all had to
Speaker 2: do with people were really afraid of jan That is
Speaker 2: purely speculation because I just don't have any supporting information
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: Do you want to talk at all about your illness?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Sure.
Speaker 2: I was diagnosed with sister mcloupis in the early nineties
Speaker 2: and it's suspected that I've had it my entire life.
Speaker 2: You know, you just don't have flares as often when
Speaker 2: you're young. It became really really severe two thousand, two
Speaker 2: thousand and one, and it kind of stayed that way.
Speaker 2: I can function for the most part, like you know,
Speaker 2: my my body functions as far as like everything moves
Speaker 2: the way it's supposed to be, with the exception of
Speaker 2: my hands. I mean, but it is really funny. You know.
Speaker 2: My daughter has a friend who the first time I
Speaker 2: met her, she said later on to Goldie, your poor mother,
Speaker 2: how does she do anything? Doesn't she needs hired help?
Speaker 2: And Goldie was like, what are you talking about? And
Speaker 2: she was like, she can't. Well, how does she functioned?
Speaker 2: And my Goldie was like, Oh, don't worry, my mom's
Speaker 2: got a trick for everything, which is true. I still
Speaker 2: do pretty much everything I want to do. It's just
Speaker 2: it might take me three hours to prep dinner where
Speaker 2: it would take everybody else a half hour. But I'm
Speaker 2: getting it done.
Speaker 1: You've heard a lot of Tracy Riquel's incredible story. It
Speaker 1: was important to end this series. Would the people who
Speaker 1: have really been Tracy Riquel's strength, support and focus of
Speaker 1: her life, her husband and her children.
Speaker 2: Yeah too, Goldie Hunter.
Speaker 1: Goldie's oldest her husband is bart.
Speaker 3: I hadn't asked her to marry me yet, but she
Speaker 3: sat me down and she said, I've got some important
Speaker 3: things to tell you about me. She went through and
Speaker 3: explained some of her childhood history and the challenges that
Speaker 3: she's been through. The most important thing really wasn't so
Speaker 3: much in what she was telling me the experiences she's had,
Speaker 3: except that the toll that it had taken on her.
Speaker 3: She wanted to make sure that I was informed, like, hey,
Speaker 3: you know, there's still things that I have to work
Speaker 3: through and will continue to be things to work through.
Speaker 3: When she told me these things, I was flabbergasted, but
Speaker 3: it made sense to me in a way. She is
Speaker 3: such a strong person, and only a strong person could
Speaker 3: have gone through these things and be the type of
Speaker 3: person that she is today.
Speaker 1: I've known Tracy Riquil for a few years now, and
Speaker 1: I can say that she is an innately maternal person,
Speaker 1: caring and supportive. It's just who she is. Growing up,
Speaker 1: taking care of herself and others simply reinforced this. But
Speaker 1: becoming a mother without having any kind of example to follow,
Speaker 1: presented new challenges. Here's Goldie Well.
Speaker 7: I definitely say my mom is a helicopter parent. She
Speaker 7: was always on top of everything we did, or where
Speaker 7: we were at, where we were allowed to go.
Speaker 2: I was not prepared for the word the concern. Everything
Speaker 2: was a potential disaster for me.
Speaker 1: An expert will tell you that a child in Tracy
Speaker 1: Rickill's situation will either grow up to repeat the learned
Speaker 1: behavior or go in the complete opposite direction.
Speaker 2: You know, Given my childhood, everything was just she's going
Speaker 2: to get hurt, she's going to get lost, she's going
Speaker 2: to fall, she's going to break, you know, anything.
Speaker 7: And there was times where it was very frustrating and
Speaker 7: I didn't understand as a child.
Speaker 2: I couldn't even go to the gym and leave her
Speaker 2: in the gym daycare because someone was not nice to
Speaker 2: her one time, And to me, everything was just a catastrophe.
Speaker 1: But to her husband and kids, carrying that weight turn
Speaker 1: Tracy Riquel into a fully present and aware parent.
Speaker 3: My wife's experiences has made her a loving mother, one
Speaker 3: that has attention to detail, that is always aware of
Speaker 3: like how the children are feeling, and will always always
Speaker 3: be there for them.
Speaker 7: She gave us love because she didn't want to be
Speaker 7: what her parents were.
Speaker 3: I think that there's a level of fear too. They're
Speaker 3: never going to be out of her sight, which in
Speaker 3: my mind can't be a bad thing. Those kids are
Speaker 3: her life.
Speaker 7: It's hard to think that she grew up that way,
Speaker 7: to go through that kind of abuse and grew up
Speaker 7: living and thinking that you were the cause of your
Speaker 7: brother's death or you did it, or have people blaming her,
Speaker 7: especially to hide the fact that somebody else, like jan
Speaker 7: who is a murderer you know, and a bad person,
Speaker 7: you know, to practice them like that as her own mother,
Speaker 7: to not protect her child is horrifying because as an
Speaker 7: adult she's the opposite. You know, she loves us so
Speaker 7: much and can never imagine hurting us.
Speaker 1: A few years after Goldie was born, Tercy Raquel welcomed
Speaker 1: her second child, and Hire was born.
Speaker 2: I was twenty seven.
Speaker 8: My mother was a bit overprotective, but seeing where she
Speaker 8: came from, it made sense.
Speaker 1: That's hunter.
Speaker 8: I don't know if there's ever a specific moment where
Speaker 8: I became aware of my mother's childhood. I think it
Speaker 8: was just something that we knew from, you know, snippets
Speaker 8: of different stories that she might have told or something.
Speaker 2: First of all, I had to acknowledge my own abuse
Speaker 2: and then get to a place where I'm comfortable to
Speaker 2: talk about that with my children.
Speaker 7: Oh it's horrifying. I've seen photos of my mom where,
Speaker 7: you know, she's covered in bruises, you know, on her
Speaker 7: arms and her legs, and she's two or three years old.
Speaker 7: I meet people every day of my life, oh I
Speaker 7: was abused or I had a rough childhood. I had
Speaker 7: this happen to me. Not once have I ever heard
Speaker 7: my mom use that as an excuse.
Speaker 8: There was a lot of anger, sadness. Sorry, give me
Speaker 8: one second to compose myself. The fact that she had
Speaker 8: to go through that, it is it's hard to think about.
Speaker 8: I mean, I love my mom, but death and the
Speaker 8: fact that she ended up in a good place and
Speaker 8: hunted down justice, fought for justice is that's I guess
Speaker 8: the best emotion I can bring out of that is
Speaker 8: pride the she ended up in a good spot.
Speaker 2: They both have had their sweet moments showing love and
Speaker 2: respect for me. When it comes to Matthew, I.
Speaker 8: Light a candle on his birthday, it's just become, I guess,
Speaker 8: a ritual in my life. You know, he didn't get
Speaker 8: to be here very long, so if anything, at least
Speaker 8: people can remember him.
Speaker 2: Hunter was in the fifth grade, and he had a
Speaker 2: fifth grade teacher who said, you have to do a
Speaker 2: report on a famous person. What is the definition of famous, Well,
Speaker 2: they had to have been in the news for fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2: And so Hunter did his report on me and my
Speaker 2: case with Matthew. And Hunter's teacher was from Atlanta and
Speaker 2: was in Atlanta when the case happened. And so Hunter's
Speaker 2: up there and he didn't say, this is my mom.
Speaker 2: He's just doing this story about this person, you know.
Speaker 2: And the teacher's like, I know this, you know. And
Speaker 2: then at the end Hunter says and oh, by the way,
Speaker 2: it's my mom, you know what I mean. And then
Speaker 2: they're like what. So I thought that was really sweet.
Speaker 7: My whole life, my mom had always said Matthew was
Speaker 7: our guardian angel. There were times in my life where
Speaker 7: there was darkness or something bad could have happened or
Speaker 7: should have happened, and something maybe it was an angel.
Speaker 7: It was like a good feeling and maybe it was him,
Speaker 7: you know, looking over us, to the point that I
Speaker 7: tattooed his name on my shoulder because I you know,
Speaker 7: I never met him, but I did feel like he
Speaker 7: was a big part of my life and watching over me.
Speaker 1: Terracy kills. Concern for her baby brother, Matthew spilled over
Speaker 1: into other areas of her life.
Speaker 8: My mother was very much give the shirt off your
Speaker 8: back for another person. That's always who she's been. She'll
Speaker 8: probably live the rest of her life like that. A
Speaker 8: lot of who I am stems from her ideals, her
Speaker 8: moral code. She inspired me from a young age. She
Speaker 8: taught me how a man should be and how a
Speaker 8: man should treat a woman, you know, being a good
Speaker 8: human being, looking out for others.
Speaker 2: When Hunter was in the second grade, he would take
Speaker 2: a snack to school and then he would come home
Speaker 2: and he would be hungry. And then the next day
Speaker 2: he would say, Mom, I need three snacks. I don't understand.
Speaker 2: And he was like, Joey and Sarah and Michelle don't
Speaker 2: have snacks, and so and so and so and so
Speaker 2: don't have lunch, so I need snack. So he would
Speaker 2: just give it all away. Then that was just him.
Speaker 8: The one thing that still sticks with me to this day.
Speaker 8: But I guess, like you could say her motto, if
Speaker 8: you see a problem and you don't do anything about it,
Speaker 8: you're part of that problem.
Speaker 7: There was a time when I was a child we
Speaker 7: lived in not a great neighborhood. I remember there was
Speaker 7: a group of people that were going to assault a man,
Speaker 7: and I do remember my mom going outside and had
Speaker 7: the police on the phone. It was a very dangerous situation,
Speaker 7: and nobody else wanted to help. And she was brave
Speaker 7: and calling and not afraid, and she said they had
Speaker 7: crowbars and things like that. She very well could have
Speaker 7: been hurt in that moment, and she had no fear,
Speaker 7: no fear.
Speaker 3: She has come a long way in her life, and
Speaker 3: I think that she's very modest and she downplays a
Speaker 3: lot of things. I think that's the type of person
Speaker 3: she is. She's gotten to a place now. First she's
Speaker 3: very mindful and tries to think of others.
Speaker 2: It has only been in the past three or four
Speaker 2: years that I realize you've got to heal. And the
Speaker 2: healing part sometimes is the most terrifying thing. But it's
Speaker 2: the risk because in order to go through that, you
Speaker 2: are gonna fall. People are not going to stand by you,
Speaker 2: and there's people who are going to say, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: get over, I'm sick of here. And this shame is
Speaker 2: this huge thing. It's like a part of everything. Well,
Speaker 2: I got to get rid of my own shame.
Speaker 3: The bottom line is, anytime that Gracia Raquel has a
Speaker 3: moment of guilt, the first thing I asked is what
Speaker 3: is it that you feel guilty for? You were the
Speaker 3: victim in this case.
Speaker 1: What has it been like for you to do this podcast?
Speaker 2: This has been one of the single most important things
Speaker 2: that I have done for myself and my family. It's
Speaker 2: really about talking about what happened to me and figuring
Speaker 2: out who I am and who I want to be,
Speaker 2: not based on somebody else's idea or based on some
Speaker 2: history of pain and trauma, but letting it all go.
Speaker 2: So for me, this has been a revelation, an epiphany.
Speaker 2: But it hasn't been easy, no oh no, but I
Speaker 2: am freer every day because of it.
Speaker 1: Is there something you want people to know?
Speaker 2: One of the most profound things that I learned as
Speaker 2: a very very young child is you have a choice,
Speaker 2: and I don't have to be anything you say I am.
Speaker 2: I don't have to be a failure or a loser,
Speaker 2: or not pretty enough or not smart enough, or any
Speaker 2: of those things. I mean. I've had a lot of
Speaker 2: good people in my life, and over the past three
Speaker 2: or four years, I have had someone very close to
Speaker 2: me who has really helped who well, it's you. Can
Speaker 2: I say that.
Speaker 1: It is I'm honored to you, or that I'm surprised
Speaker 1: because I find you very inspirational, and I think what
Speaker 1: we've been for each other is sort of a sounding
Speaker 1: board on these issues. It's been healthy for both of us,
Speaker 1: and I've certainly, as I said, learned so much from
Speaker 1: you and admire you for your strength. I think we
Speaker 1: should give Tracy, Riquel's husband Bart the last.
Speaker 3: Word my wife as part of the reason I fell
Speaker 3: in love with her. She's a hero to me.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for Burden of Guilt at documentary coming in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four and airing only on Paramount Plus. If
Speaker 1: you would like to reach out to the Burden of
Speaker 1: Guilt team, email us at Burden of Guiltpod at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. That's Burden of Guilt Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: If you or someone you know is worried about maltreatment
Speaker 1: or suspect that a child is being abused or neglected,
Speaker 1: call the Child Health National Child Abuse Hotline. You can
Speaker 1: call or text one eight hundred four a child. That's
Speaker 1: one eight hundred four two two four four five three.
Speaker 1: One way to show support is by subscribing to our
Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and
Speaker 1: review Burden of Guilt. Five star reviews go a long way,
Speaker 1: A big thank you for listening, and also be sure
Speaker 1: to check us out and follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Glass Podcasts. Burden of Guilt is a production of Glass Podcasts,
Speaker 1: a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 1: The show is hosted and executive produced by me Nancy Glass,
Speaker 1: written and produced by Andrea Gunning and Carrie Hartman, also
Speaker 1: produced by Ben Fetterman and associate producer Kristin Melchiori. Our
Speaker 1: iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crimeschain Special thanks
Speaker 1: to Tracy Riquel Burns and her husband Bart. Audio editing
Speaker 1: and mixing by Matt Delvecchio. Burden of Guild's theme composed
Speaker 1: by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by my Music And
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.