Speaker 1: Hey, what is up everybody? Welcome to the Gilty of
Speaker 1: Charge podcast, presented by the Chargers Podcast Network. My name
Speaker 1: is Stephen and I am the host as always. In
Speaker 1: joining me is my guy Tyler. Tyler, what's up, man?
Speaker 1: How are you doing today?
Speaker 2: Uh? You know, not doing too bad, Steven. I personally
Speaker 2: am doing well, although I am preparing for what could
Speaker 2: be the roughest, toughest Chargers Raiders game to watch since
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, where apparently both teams played two quarterbacks
Speaker 2: and there it was a barn burner of a game
Speaker 2: and the Raiders won seven to six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully we get a little bit more of an
Speaker 1: entertaining game this week, but you know, not too dissimilar
Speaker 1: situations for mister Easton Stick and Aidan O'Connell both being
Speaker 1: fifth round draft picks. Obviously Easton Stick has been in
Speaker 1: the league for quite some time at this point. But
Speaker 1: we'll get to that game in a second here. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we'll have some news to break down regarding the quarterback
Speaker 1: behind Tyler's right shoulder, mister Justin Herbert, And then we'll
Speaker 1: have some things that I've into about the Chargers loss
Speaker 1: and the Broncos and we'll just kind of zoom out,
Speaker 1: as we like to do on this show, and look
Speaker 1: at kind of where the Chargers are at a as
Speaker 1: a franchise right now, being five and eight. Playoff hopes
Speaker 1: basically done for at this point, depending on which model
Speaker 1: you're looking at, it's basically a round one or two percent,
Speaker 1: you know, after that loss to the Broncos. So we'll
Speaker 1: have some good conversations and then we are going to
Speaker 1: talk about mister Easton Stick and how the Chargers can
Speaker 1: kind of take advantage of this month remaining of the
Speaker 1: season with him at quarterback, and how they can potentially
Speaker 1: build a successful offense. So we'll get to all of
Speaker 1: that here in a second. As always, Tyler and I
Speaker 1: are fans of the team just like you guys are.
Speaker 1: We are very fortunate to have this platform. It's kind
Speaker 1: of crazy to look back at at how fast this
Speaker 1: season had has gone by with one month remaining. We obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, started becoming on this feed as of April
Speaker 1: and here we are in December with one month left.
Speaker 1: So it's been a super fun ride for the two
Speaker 1: of us being on this channel. We can't thank you
Speaker 1: guys enough for the support. That being said, the opinions
Speaker 1: that we share on this show are just that they
Speaker 1: are our opinions first and foremost. They are not the
Speaker 1: opinions of the Chargers organization. We are independent contract We
Speaker 1: are independent content creators, and hopefully you guys have enjoyed
Speaker 1: our experience on the show. But Tyler, kind of crazy
Speaker 1: to think about and speak out loud, you know, one
Speaker 1: month left in the season, looking back to our first
Speaker 1: show on the channel and that being the draft episode
Speaker 1: and things like that, kind of crazy. How fast time flies?
Speaker 2: Yeah, our first episode was a mock draft the week
Speaker 2: of the draft, and it's December eleventh as of recording,
Speaker 2: and we're currently looking ahead to the next draft as well.
Speaker 2: But you know, draft season sometimes never stops. Of course,
Speaker 2: Alex Katson on our channel doing work in that regard
Speaker 2: as well. But yeah, it was quick. We spent the
Speaker 2: whole summer just going please get to the season, and
Speaker 2: polease get to the season, please get And this season
Speaker 2: it's week fifteen, Like what happened? I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't know what happened, but suddenly we are here at
Speaker 2: the basically the end of the season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like being content creators, like you're always
Speaker 1: working on stuff, so the season always goes by faster,
Speaker 1: you know, as opposed to just like you know, when
Speaker 1: I am like looking at like University of Utah football,
Speaker 1: I'm like, man like, season's kind of dragging on right now.
Speaker 1: So it is funny.
Speaker 2: Even the Utah fan, by the way, for nobody that.
Speaker 1: You didn't, Yeah, if you're just listening to the show, you.
Speaker 2: Know that I'm joking. Everybody knows your Utah fans.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody knows. You know, I was treating about Utah
Speaker 1: women's basketball the other day, so you know, it is
Speaker 1: what It is, cool, all right, guys. That being said,
Speaker 1: unfortunate news for for the charges, obviously, with Justin Herbert
Speaker 1: and his injury. Brandon Statey said this morning Monday that
Speaker 1: he was going to talk to two different specialists get
Speaker 1: two different opinions, and about two hours ago as of
Speaker 1: recording this, Adam Schefter tweeted out that he is going
Speaker 1: to undergo surgery on his index finger. While the specific
Speaker 1: timeline has not been released just yet, that likely takes
Speaker 1: him out of the final four games of the season.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure Justin is really trying to do
Speaker 1: everything he can to get back out there for the team,
Speaker 1: he said just as much. He has one of the
Speaker 1: longest streaks in the league of consecutive games started ever since.
Speaker 1: He obviously took over for mister Tarrod Taylor in Week
Speaker 1: two against the Kansas City Chiefs. And I'm sure he
Speaker 1: would like, you know, that streak to stay intact. I
Speaker 1: think everybody would like that street to stay intact. As
Speaker 1: it currently stands, there's five healthy quarterbacks in the AFC
Speaker 1: out of sixteen teams. It's just kind of crazy right now.
Speaker 1: So Justin herbert finger injury unfortunately seems like it's going
Speaker 1: to knock him out for the rest of the season. Here.
Speaker 1: But Tyler, what's kind of your your thoughts about mister
Speaker 1: Justin Herbert being out for the final four games?
Speaker 2: That it sucks and that it's terrible. This is Justin
Speaker 2: Herbert's fourth notable injury that he's sustained over the last
Speaker 2: two years. You've got the fractured rib cartilage, You've got
Speaker 2: the torn labram, injured left hand, injured right hand. He's
Speaker 2: been to the Blue medical tent several other times.
Speaker 1: So it sucks.
Speaker 2: I mean, you want to see Justin Herbert out there,
Speaker 2: and you know it's unfamiliar territory for Chargers fans. We've
Speaker 2: had Philip Rivers, then Torod Taylor for one game, and
Speaker 2: then Justin Herbert. Like there's really just it's been consistency
Speaker 2: at the quarterback position. That's really what it's been for
Speaker 2: the Chargers for two decades now. And to see him
Speaker 2: out is such a bummer. Doesn't look like he's playing
Speaker 2: against the Raiders, And as everyone kind of speculated, it's
Speaker 2: not like it's not looking like he's going to play
Speaker 2: this season. Of course he'll try to. If there's any
Speaker 2: random experimental, sciencey thing out there that he can find
Speaker 2: to get himself on the field, I'm sure he'd look
Speaker 2: into it.
Speaker 1: But it's just.
Speaker 2: I agree with Daniel Popper what he said about the
Speaker 2: most important thing is your most important asset, and that
Speaker 2: is Justin Herbert. And in a season where at this
Speaker 2: point you have one percent or less than one percent
Speaker 2: chance of making the postseason, and that's before you have
Speaker 2: to play games with East and stick no offense, you
Speaker 2: got to do it's best for your quarterback and your
Speaker 2: best asset. You know, on the one hand, you want
Speaker 2: your quarterback to be out there, you want any player
Speaker 2: to be out there and you want them to be
Speaker 2: healthy at the same time, Like this pass protection as
Speaker 2: it currently stands is unacceptable and it's a complete failure
Speaker 2: from top down, from personnel department to coaches to players.
Speaker 2: They couldn't pick up a free rusher in week one
Speaker 2: and they still can't pick up a free rusher in
Speaker 2: Week fourteen. The Broncos had They had thirty pressures all together,
Speaker 2: but eleven or twelve of them were just on blitzes
Speaker 2: and free rushes, and I believe there are six different
Speaker 2: sacks in that game.
Speaker 1: It was rough.
Speaker 2: You know, it sucks. Injuries suck, but like just seeing
Speaker 2: Herbert go down, it's more. I don't know if fans
Speaker 2: feel the same with if you feel the same way,
Speaker 2: it just feels more frustrating. It's kind of infuriating when
Speaker 2: it happens to someone like the quarterback like Justin Herbert.
Speaker 2: You know, he's the guy that's always out there and
Speaker 2: carrying the team on his back, and more games than not,
Speaker 2: they're only really in the hunt or in the game
Speaker 2: because of Justin Herbert, and for the line and the
Speaker 2: coaches and the scheme and whatever to both not give
Speaker 2: him a run game all season and then just in general,
Speaker 2: no pass protection. It's kind of infuriating because he's doing
Speaker 2: everything he possibly can and now you can just see too,
Speaker 2: especially at the beginning of that Broncos game, that it's
Speaker 2: just starting to take a toll on his mind. It's
Speaker 2: been taking a toll on his body all these hits,
Speaker 2: all of the free rushers, et cetera. But now now
Speaker 2: it's just kind of altering. Things are just a bit off, right,
Speaker 2: Throws are just a bit off. He's missing by just
Speaker 2: a little bit, and there's nothing stable around him, and
Speaker 2: he's trying to learn his eighth offense and you know,
Speaker 2: as many seasons practically, it's tough right now for him.
Speaker 2: So it's a long winded way of saying, I obviously
Speaker 2: would love for him to be healthy. I'd love for
Speaker 2: him to be out there, but what seems to be
Speaker 2: now a lost season. Do its best for your most
Speaker 2: important asset.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the specifically, you know, this being an
Speaker 1: issue with his throwing hand. The reports were that he
Speaker 1: was really struggling to grip a football, you know, in
Speaker 1: the locker room at halftime when they were trying to
Speaker 1: evaluate if he could go back into the game. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure he pushed to even go continue to play,
Speaker 1: even you know, struggling to grip a football. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, Justin Herbert, for everything that was like said
Speaker 1: about him after the draft, like, toughness has never once
Speaker 1: been any kind of concern of mine. This guy obviously
Speaker 1: take on linebackers on the sideline. I mean the Jerry
Speaker 1: Tillery thing where he hits him out of bounds and
Speaker 1: the entire team is, you know, going after him and
Speaker 1: Justin comes out of the pile and he's just laughing
Speaker 1: and skipping on the sideline. Obviously, the rib thing last year, right,
Speaker 1: like one of the most incredible thing, incredible feats of
Speaker 1: toughness I have ever seen on the football field is
Speaker 1: Justin Herbert struggling so much to run that he had
Speaker 1: to actively like fling the football down and then two
Speaker 1: plays later just threw a dot to DeAndre Carter like
Speaker 1: fifty five sixty yards in the air. Like Justin Herbert's
Speaker 1: toughness should never be in question. Like there was a
Speaker 1: tweet that kind of went rival yesterday of like you
Speaker 1: mentioned the injuries that he's kind of dealt with, and
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, like so now you're saying Justin
Speaker 1: Herbert is injury prone and that could not be further
Speaker 1: from the truth, because he's playing through these things and
Speaker 1: he will do everything he can to play through those things.
Speaker 1: So and for him to miss games, you know, it
Speaker 1: has to be a serious thing. You know. This man
Speaker 1: played through a rib injury that, according to Stefani bellv ESPN,
Speaker 1: should have sidelined him for a month, and he played
Speaker 1: through it. And he played through a torn labor m
Speaker 1: to the point where nobody even really knew about it
Speaker 1: outside of the Chargers building. And this is who Justin
Speaker 1: Herbert is. He's going to give it his all as
Speaker 1: long as he can. It's part of the reason why
Speaker 1: the Chargers have wisely invested in him the way that
Speaker 1: they have, you know, it's why he has earned that contract. Obviously,
Speaker 1: all the statistics and things like that, but he embodies
Speaker 1: everything that you want in a franchise quarterback. He basically
Speaker 1: lives at the facility, studies his butt off in terms
Speaker 1: of film study, prepares, is a gym rat. All of
Speaker 1: this stuff have been verified by several people within the building,
Speaker 1: and it just is you know, it's going to be
Speaker 1: really frustrating for him to miss these games. For his
Speaker 1: teammates even with the team being five and eight, And
Speaker 1: that's the kind of player that you want leading your franchise.
Speaker 1: A guy that's just going to be gutted missing games
Speaker 1: in what is essentially a last season, and that's who
Speaker 1: Justin Herbert is. And I think it's outstanding that he
Speaker 1: is our quarterback. That being said, like you you mentioned,
Speaker 1: the Chargers as a franchise as an organization have to
Speaker 1: do better supporting their franchise quarterback. And it's going to
Speaker 1: be more difficult now that he is going to be
Speaker 1: a much more expensive quarterback. So you're going to have
Speaker 1: to put in double the amount of time on the
Speaker 1: attention to detail aspect of football. Whether you are a
Speaker 1: personnel person, an assistant coach, a player alongside Justin Herbert,
Speaker 1: it's just the nature of the Beast. Everybody has to
Speaker 1: raise their level after you get that contract extension. And
Speaker 1: Khalip Mack talked about this after the game. Clion Mack
Speaker 1: mentioned that he feels like there are certain players that
Speaker 1: are truly on all in on this season even with
Speaker 1: the frustrations, and there have been other players who are
Speaker 1: not all the way in on this season, and Khalil
Speaker 1: Mack absolutely has earned the right in the NFL to
Speaker 1: say things like that, he's half a sack away from
Speaker 1: one hundred sacks for his career. He's a defensive Player
Speaker 1: of the Year candidate, He's played through injuries. He's setting
Speaker 1: the tone, and that is unacceptable for where you are
Speaker 1: hoping to get to. Like, we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the team as a whole right now, and you have
Speaker 1: these leaders setting the bar, specifically justin Herbert keenan Au
Speaker 1: and Khalu Mack and others have to come up and
Speaker 1: meet them. And that's not the case right now. And
Speaker 1: that goes from players, coaches, and it's just it's why
Speaker 1: the team is five and eight, Like we want to
Speaker 1: talk about why the team is not making the playoffs,
Speaker 1: Like people are not rising to the level that their
Speaker 1: leaders are setting. And that's a big problem. And it's
Speaker 1: not just an individual problem, it's a whole organizational problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with you there. I don't know
Speaker 2: when a good time is to be open to the
Speaker 2: media and say that, hey, I feel that some guys
Speaker 2: are understanding what needs to happen and some younger guys
Speaker 2: are not. But I am glad that Khalil Mack said
Speaker 2: that whether this is you know, his last year, where
Speaker 2: he's got one more year, two more years with this team, whatever,
Speaker 2: you know, we respect so much what Khalim Mack brings
Speaker 2: off the field as a leader and setting the standards,
Speaker 2: and he's got every right to say it. There's you
Speaker 2: tell me who the top three players and the Chargers
Speaker 2: are this year. I think Kalim Mack is arguably number
Speaker 2: one because of what he's accomplished this season. And the
Speaker 2: other kind of veteran guy, the other quote unquote old
Speaker 2: guy on the team, Keenan Allen, is the other person
Speaker 2: continuing to set the standard, you know, for what things
Speaker 2: should be. So it's not that anyone saying that, you know,
Speaker 2: the Chargers other players are lazy or they don't aren't
Speaker 2: invested in football or whatever. But they need to then
Speaker 2: or coaches whoever, they need to put it together on
Speaker 2: the field. And like you said, they need to get
Speaker 2: it together for let's say, Justin Herbert or four Khaloomack
Speaker 2: or four Keyen it out. It can't be this. You know,
Speaker 2: four guys are kind of holding it together and everything
Speaker 2: else just would fall apart without them. Everybody needs to
Speaker 2: come together. You know random, but like I don't know
Speaker 2: who on the Ravens is like their quote unquote like
Speaker 2: Big four leaders or whatever. But like you could tell
Speaker 2: in that game, for example, against the Rams, like it
Speaker 2: did take several different players rising to the occasion and
Speaker 2: becoming a bit more of themselves. And even if it
Speaker 2: was just one play like Tylan Wallace walk off punt
Speaker 2: return for a touchdown, yeah, but like it requires things
Speaker 2: like that in order to win those tough games, and
Speaker 2: it just seems to be. It just seems to be
Speaker 2: the difference between the Charges being five and eight versus
Speaker 2: in playoff contention.
Speaker 1: Now that's a perfect example because Tyland Wallace isn't even
Speaker 1: their main punt returner. Devid Dubernhall, who's been to the
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl as a return specialist, is injured right now,
Speaker 1: and so Tylan Wallace is stepping into that. You know,
Speaker 1: the Ravens lost Kyle Hamilton, who absolutely destroy the Chargers
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. He's one of the most
Speaker 1: impressive players I've studied this season, and so other guys
Speaker 1: have to raise that level. There's so many cliches in football,
Speaker 1: but the next man up mentality is a real thing.
Speaker 1: And if you are able to instill that into every
Speaker 1: player on the team, then everybody is ready for the occasion.
Speaker 1: Like we're going to see what Easton Stick's mentality has
Speaker 1: been like. You know, every backup quarterback says they prepare
Speaker 1: like they're always the starter. We're going to see what
Speaker 1: that looks like. But you lose Mike Williams and Josh
Speaker 1: Palmer was absolutely ready to step into that role and
Speaker 1: figure it out, and he played awesome until he also
Speaker 1: got injured. You know, you have the JC Jackson situation,
Speaker 1: and nobody really came kind of up to meet that
Speaker 1: next level at the cornerback spot. You know, Alohi Gillman
Speaker 1: misses a couple games and you don't really have that
Speaker 1: guy to come in and step up at that next level.
Speaker 1: Joey Bosa has obviously been injured. Tully has met and
Speaker 1: exceeded that level. Quick shout out for him. He's joined
Speaker 1: an elite company list, becoming one of six rookie ed
Speaker 1: rushers in the PFF era to hit forty total pressures
Speaker 1: and twenty run stops. So we've talked a lot about
Speaker 1: too Lee. He deserves a lot of credit for his
Speaker 1: rookie season and he's joining some elite company, but across
Speaker 1: the board, you have to have that kind of mentality.
Speaker 1: Corey Linsley steps out, Will Clap steps in, great. Will
Speaker 1: Clap's doing a good job. But when you lose these guys,
Speaker 1: it's not just the next man up mentality. Everybody around
Speaker 1: them has to raise their level of play. And I
Speaker 1: think that's been an issue with the team. You know,
Speaker 1: we'll get to some specific things here in a minute,
Speaker 1: but it's just it just feels like the level of
Speaker 1: urgency is not always there. I feel that from the leaders.
Speaker 1: I feel that's from some specific players, but you look
Speaker 1: at these other teams around the league that are handling
Speaker 1: these kind of these kind of injuries, and it feels like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're missing your right tackle, you're missing a Lanehnson, Okay,
Speaker 1: Jason Kelsey raises his play, joining my lot of raises
Speaker 1: his play. Stuff like that just doesn't feel like it's
Speaker 1: happening outside of like the core four leaders on this
Speaker 1: Chargers franchise right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is definitely a topic of conversation for the
Speaker 2: off season as well. But no, I completely agree with
Speaker 2: you there, and then well.
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Speaker 1: to do some specific things I think you know for me,
Speaker 1: and I don't know where you land on this when
Speaker 1: you're looking at like reasons why the Chargers are five
Speaker 1: and eight and not eight and five, for example, or
Speaker 1: seven and six or whatever. There are six, seven and
Speaker 1: six teams in the AFC right now that the conference
Speaker 1: is kind of a whole cluster together, but the Charger
Speaker 1: is specifically like when you look at the whole season
Speaker 1: for like commonalities, I think that that aspect of offensive
Speaker 1: line protection and not even necessarily like the group, like
Speaker 1: the individuals, but from like a scheme and coaching standpoint,
Speaker 1: they have struggled with these blitz packages all season long,
Speaker 1: and that's just something that is inexcusable in modern football
Speaker 1: when you have a guy like Justin Herbert. And so
Speaker 1: for me, when I look at, like, you know, reasons
Speaker 1: why the team has maybe kind of underachieved a little bit.
Speaker 1: When you have one specific thing that you struggle with
Speaker 1: the entire season and it's never addressed, I think that's
Speaker 1: a big reason why you have some of these issues.
Speaker 1: And it's really been in these key moments, like Justin
Speaker 1: Herbert from a national medium narrative perspective, is getting crushed
Speaker 1: for his inability to lead clutch drives when he's not
Speaker 1: even really getting chances in these key moments because you know,
Speaker 1: these defensive coordinators have figured out like, hey, the Chargers
Speaker 1: can't really handle these simulated pressures, these designer blitz packages,
Speaker 1: and if we call them in key moments, we're gonna
Speaker 1: get home. Whether that is Dan Quinn on the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: whether that was Vic Fangio with the I almost said
Speaker 1: Denver Broncos the Miami Dolphins, whether it's Vance Joseph on
Speaker 1: Sunday with the Denver Broncos. It's been an issue all
Speaker 1: season long, and it's not like this is a trend
Speaker 1: that's going away, Like it's not like, Okay, we're just
Speaker 1: struggling with this one team, this one specific issue. The
Speaker 1: simulated pressures are kind of like the defensive meta right
Speaker 1: now in the league, and anybody who does them is
Speaker 1: kind of elevating their team. And Steve Spagnolo, of course,
Speaker 1: is one of those guys as well. And it's a
Speaker 1: key reason why the Charges offense has really failed to
Speaker 1: meet those preseason expectations because they haven't come together and
Speaker 1: figured out how to stop these free rushers from ruining
Speaker 1: their offensive game plans every single week.
Speaker 2: It's a bit of a surprise. I know, Brandon Staley,
Speaker 2: he's not in all of the offense and meetings and
Speaker 2: in charge of everything on the offense, but sure, say
Speaker 2: what you want about the defense and the struggles this season.
Speaker 2: Brandon Staley can drop a really good blitz and a
Speaker 2: really good rush plan and give Smith Jay Rodgers that
Speaker 2: these guys can send quite a bit at you, and
Speaker 2: the Charges have had personnel to do that. So it's
Speaker 2: a surprise then to see the Chargers not be able
Speaker 2: to pick this up. And initially, you know, I think
Speaker 2: you and I and a lot of fans give a
Speaker 2: lot of grace to this issue because you lose Corey Linsley,
Speaker 2: So like, no matter what, you're not going to be better, right, Like,
Speaker 2: it's not going to suddenly get better, it's gonna get worse.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But it's been a few weeks, it's been twelve weeks
Speaker 2: since Week three, and you know, nothing has really changed.
Speaker 2: They did much better in that Vikings game, of course,
Speaker 2: but you have someone like, you know, you Mike Williams
Speaker 2: to throw to, you had Corey Lindsley, Like, I don't
Speaker 2: know what is going on. I really don't, because it's
Speaker 2: the exact same things over and over again, and it's
Speaker 2: not going to get any better. You know, the Raiders otherwise, who,
Speaker 2: by the way, are playing really good defense right now.
Speaker 2: I don't think the Broncos are going to change up
Speaker 2: their game plan just because you don't have your starting
Speaker 2: quarterback in the Chiefs you know are not going to
Speaker 2: do anything different. They have plenty of linebackers they can
Speaker 2: rotate through, in safeties they can rotate through. I'm I
Speaker 2: don't know which one has stopped the Chargers more from
Speaker 2: being more effective and winning more games this season, but
Speaker 2: it definitely has affected them in games versus and like
Speaker 2: the GODA happit games and the games versus contenders, the
Speaker 2: games in the moments, the drives against teams where hey,
Speaker 2: if you beat this team, you can really be in
Speaker 2: consideration for this. Or if Justin Herbert, if jo Justin
Speaker 2: Herbert gets that one more game winning drive, you know,
Speaker 2: he could be considered clutch or whatever. But every single time,
Speaker 2: I'm curious too, you know, maybe you can look more
Speaker 2: into this as more of an offensive line guy. I'm
Speaker 2: just curious, like to step back at the end of
Speaker 2: this season and just look at, Okay, every single quarterback
Speaker 2: hit or sack in the fourth quarter or whatever it is, Like,
Speaker 2: what is the common reason? Is there one? I don't know,
Speaker 2: But like you said, these guys, whoever it is, they
Speaker 2: need to step up. You know, Joshua Kelly, if you're
Speaker 2: being called in there to go, look, they're saying, hey, Eckler,
Speaker 2: we're going to reduce the roll a bit, so someone's
Speaker 2: got to step up. So you go, Joshua Kelly, you're
Speaker 2: in there. You can't give up the two pressures, you know,
Speaker 2: you can't. These guys in Spiller and Kelly, I think
Speaker 2: I both said they loved past protection drills in camp,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't really paid off. I don't think it
Speaker 2: certainly had not paid off this season, especially when Eckler
Speaker 2: was out. It was not great at all. So guys
Speaker 2: got to step up. I think like Zion Johnson had
Speaker 2: zero pressures in this game, that's great, but then like
Speaker 2: everybody else had six or four or six. It's just
Speaker 2: you know, the unit's got to step up together, and
Speaker 2: it's frustrating. So, you know, gave it grace because of
Speaker 2: injuries Corey Linsley obviously some good defenses in there, but
Speaker 2: it's been a week to week to week to week
Speaker 2: to week two week thing and then oh hey there's
Speaker 2: something positive and then issue issue, issue, issue isue every
Speaker 2: you know, every now and then where the positive moments
Speaker 2: are just outliers and it's it is truly baffling, you know.
Speaker 2: I think Duke Manyweather tried to rationalize maybe what's going on,
Speaker 2: but flat out he just said, like, the regression is
Speaker 2: across the board, and it's a bit of a surprise
Speaker 2: to see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm looking up games in which Justin Herbert
Speaker 1: has been pressured more than forty percent on the season,
Speaker 1: and forty percent is a that's that's bad that you
Speaker 1: don't like, that's that's not ideal, Like I think anything
Speaker 1: over thirty percent to me is kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we had some issues this game, and we kind of
Speaker 1: struggled today. We had a bad day. So Justin Herbert
Speaker 1: was pressured more than forty percent of his dropbacks seven
Speaker 1: games this season, and three of those games were more
Speaker 1: than fifty percent. And in total, right now, they're hovering
Speaker 1: around thirty thirty six percent pressure percentage on Justin Herbert dropbacks,
Speaker 1: which is almost as bad as the unit in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: And to me, that's just that's just unacceptable based off
Speaker 1: of what we felt about that specific group with all
Speaker 1: the injuries, and what we feel about this group with
Speaker 1: you know, Trey excuse mean, Rashaan Slater has had his
Speaker 1: ankle injuries and Corey Lindsay has been out, but other
Speaker 1: than that, they've been healthy, like Rashawn has still been
Speaker 1: playing these games. So to have that kind of offensive
Speaker 1: line output, and it's again it's not even really like
Speaker 1: fully offensive line related, Like it's not individuals. So much
Speaker 1: of this is game plan specific and like how are
Speaker 1: we managing these situations? And it's been an issue since
Speaker 1: Week one. Seven games that Justin Herbert has played this season,
Speaker 1: he has been pressured more than forty percent of his dropbacks,
Speaker 1: and that to me is you we can talk about
Speaker 1: like everything else, you know, from a defense perspective, everything
Speaker 1: like that, from an offensive perspective, they have not reached expectations,
Speaker 1: and that to me is the biggest issue that has
Speaker 1: to be changed going forward, because you can't have Justin
Speaker 1: Herbert being pressured like that and expect him to be
Speaker 1: performing at these kind of levels. Like we Quarterbacks can't
Speaker 1: function if they can't even get plays off, and so
Speaker 1: forty percent that's what you're talking about. You're talking about
Speaker 1: a guy who cannot get the plays off, and we've
Speaker 1: seen that far too many times this season.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was twenty twenty bad. It was,
Speaker 2: I believe, close to what Rivers was going through in
Speaker 2: like twenty fourteen when they he had the bulging disc
Speaker 2: in his back due to the injuries and hits through
Speaker 2: that season. But just looking through the list of players
Speaker 2: from the twenty twenty season, all respect to these guys,
Speaker 2: but this twenty twenty three line is should be better.
Speaker 2: If you've told me, comparing investment and outlook for one
Speaker 2: versus what they had in twenty twenty. There's no way
Speaker 2: you can think these are two of the same lines
Speaker 2: in terms of past protection. But I mean, again respect
Speaker 2: to these guys and what they did, but just going
Speaker 2: through the names like Scott Questenberry Blogga in and out
Speaker 2: of the lineup, Storm Norton, Forest Lamp, Sam Tevy Cole Toner,
Speaker 2: Ryan Groy, Dan Feenie, Trade Turner, Trey Pipkins. Obviously Tyree
Speaker 2: Saint louis like, sorry, if you told me to look
Speaker 2: at these two guys two lines, you'd go easily with
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty three line. So to hear that these
Speaker 2: players are not performing and are actually looking kind of
Speaker 2: like the twenty twenty line is to me a strong
Speaker 2: indictment against the coaching and the preparation so far.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the good news, if you want like silver lining,
Speaker 1: is that, in my opinion, these issues are correctable. It's
Speaker 1: just the attention to detail of the coaching staff has
Speaker 1: to completely ratchet up to another level. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's easier said than done, But you look at what
Speaker 1: Frank Smith was able to get out of the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one unit again with Michael Schofield injuries at right guard.
Speaker 1: Odiabushi was the starter, Michael Scofield came in four games in,
Speaker 1: Brian Blogo was the Week one starter that lasted a half,
Speaker 1: and then Storm Norton came in. Trey Pipkins also started
Speaker 1: some games that year. You had a rookie left tackle,
Speaker 1: a great one, but still a rookie left tackle, and
Speaker 1: that unit was allowed pressure on Justin Herbert around thirty percent,
Speaker 1: which is an above average percentage in my opinion. At
Speaker 1: this point, anything about thirty five is completely unacceptable when
Speaker 1: you're talking about protecting your most important asset, your starting quarterback,
Speaker 1: your franchise guy that you're invested in until twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 1: So in terms of the priorities in the off season,
Speaker 1: whatever the case to be, coaches, personnel, players, everybody needs
Speaker 1: to come together and ensure that we are not talking
Speaker 1: about this at that point next year. I believe from
Speaker 1: a personnel standpoint that the charters have the guys necessary
Speaker 1: to do that. Corey Lindsay's status TVD, we don't know.
Speaker 1: They're obviously hoping, you know, for a recovery from the
Speaker 1: issues that he's dealing with. But Rashwan Zion Jamari and
Speaker 1: Trey They're gonna be here next year. They're all around
Speaker 1: here long term. They've invested in Jordan McFadden as kind
Speaker 1: of a key backup there. They like Foster Surrell. The
Speaker 1: core for the most part of this offensive line is
Speaker 1: gonna be here next season. And I believe that they
Speaker 1: can turn this around. I do. I genuinely believe that.
Speaker 1: I've believed in this talent. I believe in this group.
Speaker 1: I believe in the physicality and toughness that they can
Speaker 1: play with. For Shawn Slater playing with a double high
Speaker 1: inclose spraying for six weeks, are you kidding me? Like
Speaker 1: the talent and the will is there, they just need
Speaker 1: to get the right pieces together and have it all
Speaker 1: click together. And I think that we should not have
Speaker 1: this problem again next season.
Speaker 2: I would agree it's the Chargers. I know a lot
Speaker 2: of fans want to go through and just suggest to making,
Speaker 2: you know, pretty sizable changes along this offensive line, at
Speaker 2: least at a couple of spots, But the Chargers don't
Speaker 2: have that luxury. You know, we'll get into the off
Speaker 2: season in this roster, and especially when we get a
Speaker 2: free agency we'll see who's here and who's back and
Speaker 2: who's not but the Chargers don't really have the luxury
Speaker 2: of going like they have to find a way to
Speaker 2: maximize these rookie contracts for like a Jamari Sallier and
Speaker 2: fora Zion Johnson and to let that work for them.
Speaker 2: They can't just go and spend, you know, eight million
Speaker 2: dollars a year on another guard because they want to
Speaker 2: upgrade there. Maybe they do, and I guess I would
Speaker 2: understand it. They st you're trying to put something better
Speaker 2: out there, but you can't afford that that leaves corner, receiver, edge, safety,
Speaker 2: tight end like you have too many other things to solve.
Speaker 2: So this office on line has got to figure it out.
Speaker 2: And I agree though I agree with you that I
Speaker 2: do believe they can. We've seen it, like last year,
Speaker 2: a lot of these guys played some really good football.
Speaker 2: Just get back to that.
Speaker 1: Whatever it takes, Yeah, whatever it takes. That's a good
Speaker 1: way to put that defensively really quick here, Tyler, what
Speaker 1: would you kind of say is the biggest reason why
Speaker 1: expectations have not been met on that side of the ball.
Speaker 2: It's easily the secondary and coaching in the secondary. And
Speaker 2: we've talked about this at length, So I don't know
Speaker 2: how much we need to spend on this, but like
Speaker 2: everything didn't work out well for this secondary overall, and
Speaker 2: with that all not working out, the Chargers were underprepared
Speaker 2: because they spent nothing in terms of either draft capital
Speaker 2: or significant free agent money in the secondary. So JC
Speaker 2: doesn't work out right, that that situation does not work out.
Speaker 2: It would be better if he were just on ir
Speaker 2: than playing not great on the field, not great off
Speaker 2: the field. Tom Tellusco's apologizing to the dB room. Michael
Speaker 2: Davis takes a step back, Brice Callahan is not brought back.
Speaker 2: You go with John Taylor. That really didn't work out
Speaker 2: this season, and it's unfortunate, but sometimes it doesn't work out.
Speaker 2: Assamto Samuel Junior is boom or bust, but he's gotten
Speaker 2: backwards a bit Derwyin James, I think it's his least
Speaker 2: impactful season. I think of his career. JT. Woods misses
Speaker 2: his time, although he Gilman misses his time. And then
Speaker 2: you have, of course the coaching, which we've talked about
Speaker 2: at length. I won't get into it too much, but complexity,
Speaker 2: scheme issues, communication, etc. I think the secondary, you know,
Speaker 2: you look at the front seven, you look at the
Speaker 2: rush unit. Sure, there are some things you'd like to improve,
Speaker 2: maybe the linebackers or whatever, but really it is the
Speaker 2: secondary that has been the biggest struggle defensively for the
Speaker 2: Chargers all year. And it almost does kind of feel
Speaker 2: like the offensive line. I don't know where you and
Speaker 2: I had these offensive line and DB's or at least
Speaker 2: corners before the season. In terms of like power ranking
Speaker 2: the units for the Chargers, yeah, I'd say there at
Speaker 2: least both in the top five and now looking at
Speaker 2: them overall, I'd say they're like, I don't know, bottom
Speaker 2: five or bottom three. And in terms of performance this
Speaker 2: season overall, the talent is there, I think, and we
Speaker 2: thought the talent was there and the play was there,
Speaker 2: and the twenty twenty two tape was all there, and
Speaker 2: yet there was no significant step forward, and in fact,
Speaker 2: everything just kind of went backwards. Nothing really progressed for
Speaker 2: the Chargers. Everything just kind of got worse. And you
Speaker 2: maybe see a bit of improvement for like a Dean Leonard,
Speaker 2: and I do like some of the supplemental play of
Speaker 2: Anisang Basi Dean Marlow Hawkins, but that's not enough. You
Speaker 2: needed your core guys to any of them to take
Speaker 2: a step forward and everything just kind of went backwards,
Speaker 2: and I think that shocked the Chargers. It did shock me,
Speaker 2: to be completely honest, and that's why I think that's
Speaker 2: the easily the key reason whether the defense has struggled.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to your point, for those who were are kind
Speaker 1: of newer to our show, we did a Chargers position
Speaker 1: group rankings back in the summer on our channel Wide
Speaker 1: Receiver funny enough was my top position group, and then
Speaker 1: obviously quarterback into your offensive line was was third with
Speaker 1: Corey Lindsley, Zion Johnson, and Jamari Sawyer. So that's where
Speaker 1: I was. At cornerback, I had as fifth, So I
Speaker 1: was pretty high on j C. Jackson coming back, Michael Davis,
Speaker 1: Asante Sammer Junior, just her Taylor, Dean Leonard, those guys.
Speaker 1: So it was an issue or it's been an issue.
Speaker 1: I think, like for me, it shouldn't take until week
Speaker 1: twelve to figure out, like your your best and most
Speaker 1: you know, consistent group of cornerbacks. And you know, the
Speaker 1: the Asante Simon Junior thing like he was going to
Speaker 1: play slot cornerback lasted like a week and then he
Speaker 1: was back to outside and so you you finally get
Speaker 1: this group that works with Jalen Hawkins as your safety three,
Speaker 1: he saying MASSI comes in as your as your nickel.
Speaker 1: Dean Leonard's playing outside. Well now, Dean Leonard is injured
Speaker 1: and Brandon Sealey said today that there's no timeline on
Speaker 1: his return, so he's probably not playing on Thursday. And
Speaker 1: so this is another star for Michael Davis, who did
Speaker 1: have an interception forced another incompletion as well on Sunday
Speaker 1: according to PFF. But it just felt like the whole
Speaker 1: year was kind of a work in progress, and for
Speaker 1: this being year three, a lot of these guys coming
Speaker 1: back that just shouldn't really be the case. You know,
Speaker 1: it should have been more cohesive from the jump, and
Speaker 1: obviously the j C. Jackson situation I think was probably
Speaker 1: the biggest issue there. But it shouldn't take you all
Speaker 1: this time to figure out your most cohesive units. And
Speaker 1: you know, Brent Price Callen was literally free, he probably
Speaker 1: would have taken them vet minimum to come back, although
Speaker 1: he still is out there. He never signed outshore, so
Speaker 1: we don't really know, but I think the lack of
Speaker 1: communication and just the constant issues back there have definitely
Speaker 1: hurt this team. Because when things work well, like coverage
Speaker 1: and pass rush work together, it's hand in hand. Obviously,
Speaker 1: if you have a better coverage unit, gives more time
Speaker 1: for the pass rush to get home. And we've seen
Speaker 1: some instances of that working, like I think the Raiders
Speaker 1: game where k Limack had the six sacs. A lot
Speaker 1: of that was due to the plan that Brandon Staley
Speaker 1: had for the middle of the field and trying to
Speaker 1: shut down DeVante Adams and those guys, and it worked.
Speaker 1: And we've seen some glimpses of obviously the pass rush
Speaker 1: taking over, specifically against like the Jets, and it was
Speaker 1: just really like overwhelming against the Bears as well when
Speaker 1: Joey was healthy, obviously, but it never really felt like
Speaker 1: those two sides were clicking for multiple games. And that's obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, a big issue when you're talking about like
Speaker 1: high end defensive play in the league. You need that
Speaker 1: to come together. I mean, you look at the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: you look at the Chiefs, you look at all these
Speaker 1: top tier defenses, the Broncos, the Ravens. Everything is just
Speaker 1: kind of works together. And that never really came to
Speaker 1: fruition for the Chargers this year.
Speaker 2: No, I don't know what it currently stands at, but
Speaker 2: the Chargers defensive back room as has the most win
Speaker 2: probability lost due to penalties, the most epaid loss to
Speaker 2: the penalties, at least heading into the previous week. I
Speaker 2: don't know where it currently stands, but it's that's not
Speaker 2: a surprise to Chargers fans, but you do want to
Speaker 2: put it out there just to really get a feel
Speaker 2: for what is going on and how it stacks up
Speaker 2: against the rest of the league. The communication issues, the penalties,
Speaker 2: it really just does feel like the offensive line and
Speaker 2: the free rusher kind of issues. It's like this this
Speaker 2: should have been figured out, you know, you would hope,
Speaker 2: especially with you know, generally the same coaches, same DBS
Speaker 2: defensive coordinator or at least in Brandon Staley. I know
Speaker 2: Ronaldo Hill is gone, but Dereck Enzy was the dB coach,
Speaker 2: and same with the offensive line. It's the same offensive
Speaker 2: line coaches. It all really should be there, and yet
Speaker 2: everything took a step back. It's it's frush.
Speaker 1: I think this is just you know, emphasizing as a
Speaker 1: whole the importance of the coaching staff and the players
Speaker 1: getting on the same page, and ideally that happens in
Speaker 1: the off season so you can build throughout the season
Speaker 1: instead of trying to solve all of these problems. Like
Speaker 1: we've talked about like our work situations, right, Like I'm
Speaker 1: a school counselor. On the days where i feel like
Speaker 1: I'm constantly putting out fires for my students, I never
Speaker 1: feel like I'm able to like really get things done.
Speaker 1: I just feel like I'm running around with my like
Speaker 1: running around with my head cut off like a chicken.
Speaker 1: I'm not able to have a plan, I'm not able
Speaker 1: to take a breath. And I'm sure you as a
Speaker 1: as a as a teacher have have had similar days
Speaker 1: where you just feel like you're constantly run around trying
Speaker 1: to solve these issues. And as a football coach, like
Speaker 1: that's an impactful thing too, Like I don't want to
Speaker 1: discount like what the J. C. Jackson situation does for
Speaker 1: the coaching staff, what Dean Leonard being out does for
Speaker 1: the coaching staff, what Alohi Gillman being out does for
Speaker 1: the coaching staff, what Joey wells Is being out for
Speaker 1: the coaching staff does, Like you, there's probably been this
Speaker 1: feeling of like we just have to constantly put out
Speaker 1: these fires and like survive out here, you know. But
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it is their job.
Speaker 1: It is my job as a school counselor to figure
Speaker 1: out how to get the things that I need done,
Speaker 1: manage my time when I have these emergencies that are happening,
Speaker 1: Like it's not I don't don't I don't get to
Speaker 1: go to work the next day, and like, well, I
Speaker 1: didn't do the thing I was said I was going
Speaker 1: to do because Billy Joe over here was having a
Speaker 1: tough day. Like I have to figure it out, and
Speaker 1: I have to do my task that day. And so
Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, it is the responsibility of the coaches
Speaker 1: to come together, you like, like we just talked about
Speaker 1: the players, the coaches have to raise their level when
Speaker 1: you have these kind of situations that the Chargers have had.
Speaker 1: And hopefully that that this issue gets corrected next year,
Speaker 1: because I would like to cover a team that is
Speaker 1: on a playoff run again and not in the situation
Speaker 1: where they're fiving.
Speaker 2: But this wasn't fun for you.
Speaker 1: I love football and winning. I love talking about football.
Speaker 1: I love like all the x's and o's and everything
Speaker 1: like that. But yes, it is much more preferable to
Speaker 1: cover a winning team. My first season covering the team
Speaker 1: was twenty eighteen. That was incredible. You get spoiled so
Speaker 1: much fun. I got spoiled right off the bat. I
Speaker 1: came in as a as a young pup, and they
Speaker 1: were ten and three at this time at that season,
Speaker 1: and I went to a game at they changed names
Speaker 1: like twice, the stub Hub whatever, and it was electric.
Speaker 1: It was so much fun. Philip Rivers was was slinging
Speaker 1: the ball around and everything like that, and that season
Speaker 1: was fun. I want more seasons like that. That would
Speaker 1: be great.
Speaker 2: And I hope that sometimes if it's been tough, as
Speaker 2: not the point of the podcast today, but sometimes it
Speaker 2: is tough to maintain momentum when the team is you know,
Speaker 2: there was literally lose to win, to lose, to win,
Speaker 2: to win, lose, lose, lose, Like it's it's been tough.
Speaker 2: But I hope that wherever you find us, wherever we are,
Speaker 2: if you follow us at all, that you're hopefully also
Speaker 2: there and see what happens and what it looks like
Speaker 2: when the Chargers are actually winning. So I promise there's
Speaker 2: there's so much excitement as a fanom and a fanatic
Speaker 2: and the fandom. It's all there. But I hope you
Speaker 2: recognize right now it's it's tougher for sure to try
Speaker 2: to cover the Chargers and to be really excited, but
Speaker 2: that that's kind of a point. You have to be
Speaker 2: frustrated right now so you can really enjoy those twenty
Speaker 2: eighteen seasons and those great moments too, which we will.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, the beauty of the NFL is that
Speaker 1: you can turn things around in a hurry. I mean,
Speaker 1: look what the Houston Texans have done. They were a
Speaker 1: dumbster fire two years ago. I know they lost on Sunday,
Speaker 1: but they're in a playoff push with a franchise quarterback.
Speaker 1: Like everything is so positive. That's the beauty of the NFL.
Speaker 1: You can turn things around so fast. And I think
Speaker 1: the Chargers have, you know, a lot of the core
Speaker 1: pieces necessary to make that turn. But yes, it is
Speaker 1: much more fun to cover winning team. And at this point,
Speaker 1: like I'm list like, so, my brother's an Eagles fan
Speaker 1: and he's complaining about the offensive play Colin, I'm like,
Speaker 1: you guys are ten and three. You were just in
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl last year, Like, shut up, You're fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they got it really rough, being ten and
Speaker 2: three and Super Bowl a couple of years ago and
Speaker 2: been back in it. Yeah, that's uh. I heart goes
Speaker 2: out to them as my tiny violin. I'll happily play
Speaker 2: that for them.
Speaker 1: Those poor guys, they're only ten and three. Yeah, anyways,
Speaker 1: but yeah, hopefully, like Tyler said, you know, you guys
Speaker 1: will be along with us on the ride when the
Speaker 1: charters are are back on top. So we'll end the
Speaker 1: show today talking about Easton Stick. This is obviously his show,
Speaker 1: well not officially confirmed his show, but presumably his show
Speaker 1: for the final four games of the season. Brandon Staley
Speaker 1: mentioned this today, but I think it's important for people
Speaker 1: to realize, like when you lose your starter mid game,
Speaker 1: you can't really like change your game plan, like you
Speaker 1: kind of have to just like okay, like Easton, you
Speaker 1: come in and you run the Justin stuff, and obviously,
Speaker 1: you know you would love to just have like Justin
Speaker 1: and Justin one bee. Unfortunately that's not the way football works.
Speaker 1: So the offense is going to change a little bit, obviously,
Speaker 1: like the bones and things are are going to remain
Speaker 1: the same. But Tyler and your estimation what or how
Speaker 1: would you kind of define a successful finish to the
Speaker 1: season for an East and stick led offense.
Speaker 2: I in terms of points, I'd say maybe like fourteen
Speaker 2: to seventeen points. Now, I understand that it's been quite
Speaker 2: the struggle for the Chargers to get there, but I'm hoping,
Speaker 2: as we sort of talked about that, other players can
Speaker 2: rise to the occasion, and I think we saw moments
Speaker 2: of that potentially against the Broncos one in particular Quentin Johnston.
Speaker 2: Part of it was just opportunity, but he catches a big,
Speaker 2: long fifty yarder and then the next play is a
Speaker 2: torny two yarder against pats Er Tam Like, there's there's
Speaker 2: stuff there that you can lean into. So for him
Speaker 2: to be successful, I think you'd look back at the
Speaker 2: last time the Chargers had a different quarterback and they
Speaker 2: had to prepare for that quarterback that we were with
Speaker 2: that quarterback heading into a game that was Tyrod Taylor.
Speaker 2: It was very rpo, it was very roll out, it
Speaker 2: was a very quick game. It was let's throw it to
Speaker 2: Keenan Allen and the tight ends and that, you know,
Speaker 2: and maybe down the field of Mike Williams. He's not
Speaker 2: out there, so maybe Quinton Johnston, but I think I
Speaker 2: think kind of stuff like that, let's lean into what
Speaker 2: east and Stick does really well. It cannot get to
Speaker 2: the point where they are doing deep drops while he's
Speaker 2: holding onto football for a very long time. Because on
Speaker 2: the one hand, the quick slant stuff, some of the
Speaker 2: rollout stuff that all looked pretty good. The one shot
Speaker 2: down the field that did look pretty good. But when
Speaker 2: it came down to hold on to it for a
Speaker 2: bit longer, you had a couple of sacks, you had
Speaker 2: one sack fumble, and one that should probably have been
Speaker 2: a sack fumble but it wasn't. You had three turnover
Speaker 2: worthy plays. So get that ball out quick and lean
Speaker 2: into your other players. I think it's a really good
Speaker 2: opportunity for the Chargers to almost have to evaluate their
Speaker 2: younger guys. You know, let's Keenan Al's gonna be Keenan Allen.
Speaker 2: Kellen Moore's done a great job with Keenan Allen, so
Speaker 2: that's gonna be the same. And that's gonna be a
Speaker 2: blessing for Easton Stick that he gets to throw a
Speaker 2: Keenan Allen out there, and Kellen Moore is gonna use
Speaker 2: him very well. But you can't expect him. I don't
Speaker 2: think to push down the football down the field of
Speaker 2: Quentin Johnson every game. I don't expect that to happen
Speaker 2: all the time. Yeah, get those screens going, man, that
Speaker 2: screen against the Broncos and other Broncos were way back.
Speaker 2: It looked pretty good. I mean that was a third
Speaker 2: and twenty that he took about sixteen yards and it
Speaker 2: looks pretty good. Like I genuinely believe he was gonna
Speaker 2: get all twenty of those back. Lean into that, Isaiah Spiller,
Speaker 2: it's time to evaluate him and guess what you have
Speaker 2: Eason Stick as your backup quarterback. You could run the
Speaker 2: ball more now. Whether it's successful or not, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but you got nothing to lose. And Isaiah Spiller, some
Speaker 2: of it wasn't so great, but I saw some flashes
Speaker 2: in there as well. Lean into that. Let's see what
Speaker 2: he's got. Let's also evaluate the futureself in terms of points.
Speaker 2: Fourteen to seventeen would be great. Will they get there,
Speaker 2: no idea. I hope they do it, at least entertaining
Speaker 2: if they do. But if nothing else, make a company
Speaker 2: for East and Stick and find ways to evaluate your
Speaker 2: young guys as best you possibly can heading into next season, and.
Speaker 1: I think eastern Stick is also part of that. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's not a super young guy. He's been in the
Speaker 1: league for five years. But like I think we're we
Speaker 1: just talked about this earlier, like we're seeing the value
Speaker 1: of a backup quarterback around the league in like what
Speaker 1: having a stable situation at backup quarterback can give you
Speaker 1: if you have injuries. Obviously, we hope every start stays healthy,
Speaker 1: but this is gonna be eastern Stick's first career start.
Speaker 1: This is we haven't really gotten a real chance to
Speaker 1: evaluate him. Obviously, we've seen him in some preseason games.
Speaker 1: But if east and Stick can look like a functional
Speaker 1: NFL quarterback in these next four games, then I think
Speaker 1: you're talking about like like we've always heard, like, oh
Speaker 1: we need our long term backup quarterback. If eastern Stick
Speaker 1: has a functional four games here, then I think we
Speaker 1: can solidify that question, or he can soldify that question
Speaker 1: for somebody else, and that the charge is a compick.
Speaker 1: We'll see what happens. But either way, in terms of
Speaker 1: the Eastern Stick offense, I think you hit the nail
Speaker 1: on the head. I think you have to increase the
Speaker 1: easy buttons. Heading into this week, the charges we're averaging
Speaker 1: around twenty three design rushes per game. I think with
Speaker 1: Eastern stick you can crank that up, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: five or six more, maybe you get to twenty eight,
Speaker 1: twenty nine, and some of that can be Eastern stick
Speaker 1: design runs. We saw some of that in the preseason.
Speaker 1: We saw them do the speed option looks a couple
Speaker 1: of times as well, which you've seen justin Herbert do
Speaker 1: a couple times this year. And I think you first
Speaker 1: and foremost designing his offense around Eastern stick have to
Speaker 1: use his mobility to their advantage, and it's a way
Speaker 1: to take pressure off of him as a passer because
Speaker 1: it's just a threat that the defense has to account for.
Speaker 1: And we've seen the importance of that with these other
Speaker 1: packup quarterbacks around the league, where if they can run,
Speaker 1: it just makes your life a little bit easier as
Speaker 1: a play caller, It makes your life a little bit
Speaker 1: easier as an offensive lineman, makes your life a little
Speaker 1: bit easier as a running back because that guy on
Speaker 1: the edge over here probably has to like hang by
Speaker 1: and not get beat by easton stick. So I think
Speaker 1: that's the first thing is let East and Stick run
Speaker 1: a little bit more and then schematically, like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: give him some easier buttons, Like I think he showed
Speaker 1: on Sunday to me that he was much more confident
Speaker 1: with like how he was throwing the football. You know,
Speaker 1: that out route to Keenan Allen on fourth down, Like
Speaker 1: he zipped that thing out there, and then there was
Speaker 1: the Keenan Allen conversion on third down over the middle
Speaker 1: of that. He just zipped that thing. The deep shots
Speaker 1: to Quentin Johnston, Like, I think he has the confidence
Speaker 1: to go out there and run the offense, but I
Speaker 1: think you don't want to be in a situation where
Speaker 1: you're forcing him to be that kind of aggressive playmaker.
Speaker 1: And again that the charges were trailing seventeen is zero
Speaker 1: basically when he came in. So if you can kind
Speaker 1: of manage things a little bit with his leg in
Speaker 1: the run game, you know, do RPOs, do more play
Speaker 1: action shots, make things easier for him. I think you
Speaker 1: can have kind of a semi functional offense with deasn Stick.
Speaker 1: Obviously it's not going to be justin Herbert. It's not
Speaker 1: going to be what we saw against the Lions stuff
Speaker 1: like that, But if you can have some successful drives
Speaker 1: here and there, you know, manage the clock a little
Speaker 1: bit more, and I think that could be a successful
Speaker 1: recipe for Eastern Stick. Obviously, I don't think anybody is
Speaker 1: going to misinterpret that as like, hey, they're going to
Speaker 1: go on a run and win four games with decent stick.
Speaker 1: My thing is like, let's evaluate Easton Stick and see
Speaker 1: what he can do. And I think the mobility there
Speaker 1: really is the key thing, because I do think he
Speaker 1: has progressed quite a bit as a passer, which is
Speaker 1: what we talked about when we watched him against this
Speaker 1: in the scrimmage way back when in August, like he
Speaker 1: has taken steps as a passer. Now we get to
Speaker 1: see that come to fruition. Hopefully we get to see
Speaker 1: him use his legs as well in these next four games. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Looking at Cooper Russia's stats back last year with Kellam
Speaker 2: Moore with the Cowboys when Doc went, I was surprised
Speaker 2: because the adot basically didn't change. It was still about
Speaker 2: nine yards there and they were throwing at thirty something
Speaker 2: times a game for a lot of these games. Don't
Speaker 2: know if they get to that point with Easton Stick,
Speaker 2: but I do think Kellam Moore is it's not going
Speaker 2: to be a complete shell of an offense. I do think,
Speaker 2: like we saw with the Quintin Johnston pass, like that
Speaker 2: stuff is going to be there, But just how do
Speaker 2: they make it easy for him? And I'm curious how
Speaker 2: Kellim Moore responds to the challenge of this, because it
Speaker 2: feels like sometimes the offense is, Okay, we'll do this,
Speaker 2: Justin Herbert goes save us. I don't think you can
Speaker 2: quite do that. It's certainly not the same way with
Speaker 2: Eastern Sick. It's I hope he does. That'd be great,
Speaker 2: but it's not quite the same. So how do you
Speaker 2: elevate the floor of this offense? I think the Chargers
Speaker 2: were maybe living on the ceiling of their offense and
Speaker 2: trying to hit certain ceilings with Justin Herbert Justin Herbert,
Speaker 2: but the floor was never there, and that's why I
Speaker 2: see some catastrophic moments. Or you also see thirty eight
Speaker 2: points against the Lions with Easton stick, you're just going
Speaker 2: for fourteen seventeen if we're trying to be serious and
Speaker 2: try to win. So how does Kellen More respond? How
Speaker 2: does he elevate the floor of this offense to at
Speaker 2: least get as many easy things as possible. If it
Speaker 2: doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. I just hope
Speaker 2: if it doesn't work out, it's not because we saw
Speaker 2: them take deep drops and try to push the ball
Speaker 2: down the field and run the Justin Herbert offense. You
Speaker 2: just can't do that. And frankly, Justin Herbert and the offense,
Speaker 2: we're struggling to run the Justin Herbert offense. So what
Speaker 2: can you do differently?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to have to be a change up.
Speaker 1: Like you can't you can't run the same stuff. The
Speaker 1: deep dropbacks, for the most part, are are not gonna
Speaker 1: be the same kind of level of execution. Like I
Speaker 1: think the biggest difference in how you see like a
Speaker 1: quarterback versus a backup is the time to throw, is
Speaker 1: the pressure to sack percentage? John Pff. You're kind of
Speaker 1: looking at those two things and ideally you're trying to
Speaker 1: make things easier upon your backup quarterback, where hey, we
Speaker 1: have one read, let's go there and then check it
Speaker 1: down like Justin Herbert can go one, two, three, four,
Speaker 1: sometimes five, like whatever the case may be, because he's
Speaker 1: just that level of processor. With Easton stick in your
Speaker 1: backup quarterback. Now to say that Easton Stick can't handle that,
Speaker 1: not to say that he's not smart, but traditionally with
Speaker 1: your backup quarterback, you're looking for read one check down,
Speaker 1: like take the easy play, take it the defense gives you.
Speaker 1: Just keep the ball movie And I think that's the
Speaker 1: key thing there. And this in like this team believes
Speaker 1: in Easton Stick from a player perspective, Like he is
Speaker 1: beloved in that locker room for a reason. And you know,
Speaker 1: Sebastian Joseph Date Derwin James were asked about him today.
Speaker 1: They all spoke very glownely about him. They believe in
Speaker 1: Easton Stick, Randon Stay and coaching staff believes in Easton Stick.
Speaker 1: And like they're all trying to win, like this is
Speaker 1: their job, Like they're going to try and continue to
Speaker 1: execute at the highest level and hopefully we like we
Speaker 1: talked about that kind of raises the play of some
Speaker 1: of these other players around Easton Stick. So it's an
Speaker 1: important four games, Like I know that it's five and eight.
Speaker 1: We just talked about why they're not in the player
Speaker 1: but every game in the NFL is important for one
Speaker 1: reason or another, and that is definitely the case. Heading
Speaker 1: out to the final month of the season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, you'd ever would love to have every
Speaker 2: year the first pick in the draft and trade out
Speaker 2: of that and accumulate picks. But you also need to evaluate.
Speaker 2: You know, this is not as much trying to win
Speaker 2: games for the sake of winning games get to the postseason.
Speaker 2: But it's an audition. It's an audition for next year
Speaker 2: for the Chargers, for other teams or both obviously, So
Speaker 2: the Chargers, I hope they go out there and maybe
Speaker 2: you can see, especially with the last three draft classes
Speaker 2: and this really young, cored nucleus that should be your
Speaker 2: core nucleus moving forward. Who are the guys that you
Speaker 2: can maybe rely on, who steps up when the adversity
Speaker 2: hits because it has not been worse Like there's really
Speaker 2: in terms of the season, nothing else to really play for,
Speaker 2: Like quarterbacks hurt, you're basic out of the postseason. So
Speaker 2: who with really nothing to have to really play for
Speaker 2: steps up for the guys around them or like even
Speaker 2: just for themselves. Yeah, you know, who steps up and
Speaker 2: really takes charge this season to close it out and
Speaker 2: put something on tape that they can be proud of
Speaker 2: and either carry momentum forward with the Chargers or when
Speaker 2: they hit for agency and go to a different team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I really believe in that as a player.
Speaker 1: I really believe if you finish a season strongly, that
Speaker 1: really does help you moving forward. I think we really
Speaker 1: did see that with like Justin Herbert for example, like
Speaker 1: the final four games of his rookie season, I think
Speaker 1: really helped propel him into knowing like I am the guy,
Speaker 1: I can do this at a very very high level,
Speaker 1: elite level. And I think he carried that into that
Speaker 1: next season, and I think several other young players in
Speaker 1: that instance too. So you know, momentum from a player
Speaker 1: development standpoint is a very real thing. And I think
Speaker 1: as these players, you know, put together multiple performances and
Speaker 1: just build their confidence, Like for Quentin Johnson, for example,
Speaker 1: your first nine yard game, like let's let's build this
Speaker 1: consistency as a disability or back in it after you've
Speaker 1: been kind of inactive for a while. Let's build this
Speaker 1: consistency and let's get going into the next offseason. So
Speaker 1: it is definitely a super important season. And I like
Speaker 1: players wise, you're playing for pride, you're playing for yourself,
Speaker 1: you're playing to spoil the other teams, like, you know,
Speaker 1: they get the Bills in a couple of weeks. If
Speaker 1: the Bills, you know, are pushing for the playoffs, a
Speaker 1: loss would do a lot for them. You know, you
Speaker 1: get the Chiefs in week eighteen, like you can spoil
Speaker 1: these other teams season. And it's not just like you know,
Speaker 1: of course, there are things to play for, things or
Speaker 1: not to play for. So it's going to be very
Speaker 1: interesting to see how the players handle this over the
Speaker 1: next month because a lot can ride on your careers
Speaker 1: over the end of the season like this. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I went a little bit longer on that discussion, particularly
Speaker 1: along the offensive line, but you know, it is what
Speaker 1: it is. We got to talk about the things that
Speaker 1: are really happening with this team. That's what we always
Speaker 1: try to do over the ins We've always tried to
Speaker 1: do over the last four years that we've been together
Speaker 1: as a podcast. So, Tyler, any final thoughts before we
Speaker 1: head out.
Speaker 2: I am still kind of excited for the game, you know,
Speaker 2: because it's like if we're assuming the Charger are out
Speaker 2: of the postseason, and look, they have a one percent
Speaker 2: of less of one percent chance of making it, so
Speaker 2: they're they're out of the postseason then it's just it's
Speaker 2: just kind of free house money, you know, I get
Speaker 2: to watch, So let's see these guys play, see how
Speaker 2: it goes. I'll be with my dad who's a Raiders fan.
Speaker 2: You can type boo in the chat everyone who just
Speaker 2: found that out. It should be fun. We'll be here regardless,
Speaker 2: no matter what. We'll be here every week covering it.
Speaker 2: Season ends, will be here.
Speaker 1: So yeah, exactly, you know, charges Fantom is not for
Speaker 1: the week, that's for sure. It builds characters. What I
Speaker 1: always tell people, you know, it is what it is,
Speaker 1: so it should be a lot of fun. Appreciate you
Speaker 1: guys for sticking around this far into the episode, this
Speaker 1: far into the season. Hopefully you're able to learn something
Speaker 1: take something away from the from this show. That's kind
Speaker 1: of always our goal is to have these kind of
Speaker 1: discussions that that dig deep into what's going on with
Speaker 1: the Chargers on multiple levels. So hopefully you enjoyed the show.
Speaker 1: If you did, please let us know in a review comment,
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. We're always looking for that
Speaker 1: kind of engagement, So we appreciate you guys. Appreciate the
Speaker 1: Chargers for allowing us to have this platform. Appreciate Greg
Speaker 1: Kim for producing. As always, that's going to do for
Speaker 1: us this time. We'll see you next week. Hould up.