Speaker 1: Have you ever wanted a safe space where you can
Speaker 1: just exist, where for a moment in time, you can
Speaker 1: be you, with all the intricacies and parts of you
Speaker 1: that people don't always understand. Welcome to in the deep
Speaker 1: stories that shape us. I'm your host, Zach Stafford, and
Speaker 1: each episode we create a space to be you, all
Speaker 1: of you and all your messy and complicated glory. Every
Speaker 1: story shares what it means to be a black and
Speaker 1: Latin X man living with different hardships, whether it's a
Speaker 1: struggle of identity, discrimination or health, and how they've managed
Speaker 1: to push forward despite the circumstance. We hope to get closer,
Speaker 1: even it's just a little to a road of healing
Speaker 1: and understanding. Welcome back to the final episode of the season,
Speaker 1: and what a season it has been. Over the last
Speaker 1: few weeks, we've spoken about identity, community, trust, and healing,
Speaker 1: and in this closing episode we try to bring it
Speaker 1: all together what it means to be authentically us in
Speaker 1: all our complicated glory. We've heard stories of hardship, forgiveness
Speaker 1: and redemption ultimately ending in a place filled with acceptance
Speaker 1: and self love. And what better guests to help us
Speaker 1: bring this season to a close than Bishop O. C.
Speaker 1: Allen the Third, a religious trailblazer, human rights activists, and
Speaker 1: founder of the Vision Church of Atlanta, whose journey as
Speaker 1: a gay black man was defined by a number of places,
Speaker 1: all juxtaposed in their definition of what a man looks like.
Speaker 1: Bishop Allen's story largely begins at Atlanta, particularly at Morehouse College.
Speaker 1: I was curious to hear about his first interactions here,
Speaker 1: the college where he became the quintessential more House man,
Speaker 1: a symbol of ultimate black masculinity, and a place filled
Speaker 1: with contradictions of what he was meant to represent versus
Speaker 1: who he truly was inside. I was born and raised
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, California, lived in New York, uh, lived
Speaker 1: in Baltimore, and came to Atlanta. And I was totally
Speaker 1: blown away because I grew up hearing about how Atlanta
Speaker 1: was the Black Mecca, and you know, all of the
Speaker 1: rhetoric that people, particularly in the nineties, we're using to
Speaker 1: talk about Atlanta. It was exactly what they said. Coming
Speaker 1: from the West Coast, I grew up in a profoundly
Speaker 1: diverse environment and coming to Atlanta that, uh, it's diverse,
Speaker 1: but I think it's sort of sectioned out and if
Speaker 1: you will, in various communities, like a lot of other places.
Speaker 1: But it just became very start that there was a
Speaker 1: very strong Black presence and very deliberate Black culture and
Speaker 1: legacy and history in Atlanta. And I thought that was
Speaker 1: just astounding. Now I came to Atlanta, um broke confused
Speaker 1: about a lot of different things, my own mental emotional
Speaker 1: state as relates to my life and my sexuality and
Speaker 1: and my culture and just all of that to some
Speaker 1: very basic things. You know, I was trying to get
Speaker 1: my financial aid together. You know, they lost all of
Speaker 1: my information, you know, all of the just a lot
Speaker 1: of chaos and conflict and questions that I had. You
Speaker 1: know now that I look back in on hindsight as
Speaker 1: always twenty or fifty fifty, and uh, I really thank
Speaker 1: God and thank the universe for all of it. But
Speaker 1: at the time I was just you know, it was
Speaker 1: a lot. And I stayed with a family that was
Speaker 1: a friend of my family and out in Marietta, and
Speaker 1: I was in their basements, sleeping on the couch, and
Speaker 1: I had a little black Nissan and um got to
Speaker 1: campus and then was blown away on a whole another level,
Speaker 1: and you know, that I was at this all black
Speaker 1: male school that has such a powerful legacy, and the
Speaker 1: moment you step on campus, you feel it, you understand
Speaker 1: it in ways that are hard to articulate. UM. I
Speaker 1: had gone to Morgan State University, which was an HBCU,
Speaker 1: but you know, morehouse UM has a particular heritage and
Speaker 1: tradition of nurturing young black men. Then, of course, underneath
Speaker 1: the cover is this black gay culture space reality that
Speaker 1: was just profound, and I hadn't reconciled and resolved everything
Speaker 1: in my own life, and so it just brought all
Speaker 1: the questions and all of the things to the surface.
Speaker 1: Creating spaces that were reflective of his own identity, especially
Speaker 1: within his community, was important for Bishop Allen, but he
Speaker 1: would find out that these spaces were not created equal
Speaker 1: and challenge the status quo, especially when it came to
Speaker 1: issue use of masculinity. I was there when the young
Speaker 1: brother was beaten in the shower with the bat. I
Speaker 1: was there. As a matter of fact, Not only was
Speaker 1: I there, but I was a part of a delegation
Speaker 1: of young black gay men who created a space too
Speaker 1: revolt and protest the administration about the homophobic climate and
Speaker 1: making sure that there were um official statements by the campus.
Speaker 1: I was a part of all of that. You know,
Speaker 1: looking back at it, I think it's multilayer because I
Speaker 1: think on one end there is the complications of moving
Speaker 1: into a space that has the homophobia and the challenges.
Speaker 1: But I would also say, at that age and that stage,
Speaker 1: most black men are men in general, are still trying
Speaker 1: to figure out life, and so it's easy to focus
Speaker 1: on the homophile be which I think is important. Um,
Speaker 1: it's also important to look at all the complexities of
Speaker 1: just what's going on with you socially, sexually, mentally, emotionally
Speaker 1: as you're trying to be come, what you think a
Speaker 1: man is and what that means for you. And I
Speaker 1: think Morehouse has a legacy of at least uh trying
Speaker 1: to provide a space for people to figure that out,
Speaker 1: men to figure that out. Yeah, you know that makes
Speaker 1: me want to talk to you about the idea of
Speaker 1: safe spaces. You know, we hear that word a lot,
Speaker 1: especially with religious spaces, especially as churches are seen a
Speaker 1: safe spaces. And I think people have this idea that
Speaker 1: a safe space means that it won't be uncomfortable. But
Speaker 1: what I've learned is that safe spaces can sometimes be
Speaker 1: really uncomfortable because they're there to mold you and shape you.
Speaker 1: Do you relate to that, or what are your thoughts
Speaker 1: around that idea of when you go to a place,
Speaker 1: like should you be catered to or should you be pushed?
Speaker 1: I pushed, you know, I I don't know where I
Speaker 1: sit completely on a lot of things that relates to
Speaker 1: the term space. When we first started the ministry in particular,
Speaker 1: we use a lot of the terms, you know, safe space,
Speaker 1: safe space, space, space, And then I transition and said, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if any space is really safe any space,
Speaker 1: like how safe is a space for anyone? Any space?
Speaker 1: And is that the language that we're really looking for.
Speaker 1: I think what we want is a bold space where
Speaker 1: people figure out how to become their best selves, how
Speaker 1: to tap into their potential and their purpose, bold enough
Speaker 1: to push me. And I think that is the challenge
Speaker 1: that I would like to call myself an honorary millennial,
Speaker 1: honorary Generation zer um. But I think that's the problem
Speaker 1: with Generation zers and millennials is they're looking for safety
Speaker 1: and comfort, and that's not what makes us. We're not
Speaker 1: a strong people. You're not a strong person. You're not
Speaker 1: a strong woman, you're not a strong man, are a
Speaker 1: strong human being because your space is without the tension.
Speaker 1: If you look at any successful, profound person in history,
Speaker 1: it is because they were thrown into the the gap
Speaker 1: where the tension exists. And I think that cannot be
Speaker 1: omitted from the process if we're going to be all
Speaker 1: that we're supposed to be. Bishop Allen realizes that the
Speaker 1: safe spaces don't represent him, all of him in full form.
Speaker 1: There was certainly a need, especially for black men, straight men,
Speaker 1: bisexual men, gay men, to be accepted exactly as they came,
Speaker 1: much like he had done it morehouse, disrupting the status quo,
Speaker 1: he decides to challenge one of the biggest institutions, the church.
Speaker 1: He creates the Vision Church, a place where people from
Speaker 1: all backgrounds and walks of life can freely preach and belong.
Speaker 1: But bringing his vision to life would be a long
Speaker 1: and trecious road of self discovery. It was powerful. Yet
Speaker 1: I will say this, We all have a destiny. And
Speaker 1: what do I mean by that? There is something I
Speaker 1: saw of ourselves not only pulling us to it, but
Speaker 1: um shaping the steps, you know, molding the staircase putting
Speaker 1: the staircase in front of us. And so while I
Speaker 1: was blown away by Atlanta, what I've come to understand
Speaker 1: is that all of it was designed. The thing that
Speaker 1: was consistent through all of it was I'm supposed to
Speaker 1: be here. This is a part of my journey. I
Speaker 1: didn't know where it was taking me. I didn't know
Speaker 1: how I would get there. I didn't know all the particulars.
Speaker 1: I certainly had an enormous amount of challenges in the process.
Speaker 1: But I think even through my pursuit for equality with
Speaker 1: so many other brothers on campus, um it was a
Speaker 1: part of my molding. It was a part of my development,
Speaker 1: was a part of my growth, and it was frightening.
Speaker 1: I didn't fully understand how I would get to this
Speaker 1: picture that I had in my head. I think I
Speaker 1: was raised to believe I was a change agent. But
Speaker 1: you know, when you're broke, and I say broke to
Speaker 1: also include broken, when you're sleeping on the couch, all
Speaker 1: you have is closed in your car and you're trying
Speaker 1: to figure life out. When I first got to Moorhouse,
Speaker 1: you wonder, how will I manifest this thing that I see?
Speaker 1: And so I think most certainly it moved from fright
Speaker 1: two almost this acceptance that you know, maybe I'm not
Speaker 1: going to be a change agent to maybe I'm going
Speaker 1: to be just a change a gent to myself, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's fascinating to see just the road and the journey.
Speaker 1: I would tell anybody you know, the staircase is long,
Speaker 1: but it has a destination. And you must continue to walk.
Speaker 1: Tired walk and if you cannot walk, crawl up the
Speaker 1: damn stairs. Do whatever you have to do. You'll get there.
Speaker 1: I promise you. That's part of my mantra. If you
Speaker 1: will like it's the story of my life in spite
Speaker 1: of all of the challenges as a black gay man
Speaker 1: and that, and then as a leader and and and
Speaker 1: as someone who believes he is called to help people
Speaker 1: see who they are. You will get there with this
Speaker 1: idea mind being the change agent to himself. First, Bishop
Speaker 1: Allen had begun to crack the code, but finding the
Speaker 1: value and meaning of individuality, especially in a place that
Speaker 1: was so devoted to the better of an entire group
Speaker 1: of people, force Bishop Allen to dig deeper. With his
Speaker 1: role well defined as a leader, he had to continue
Speaker 1: scaling his message by helping his community see their personal
Speaker 1: internal beauty and greatness. I think that I'm going to
Speaker 1: use some symbolic language. The right people are people who
Speaker 1: serve as a net and an umbrella, you know, to
Speaker 1: cover you. They got you. That net is to catch
Speaker 1: you and to hold you. But it's all for the
Speaker 1: purpose of helping you see more of who you can be.
Speaker 1: Sometimes that happens through rejection, and it is easy. I
Speaker 1: think the greatest deception is that rejection has no direction
Speaker 1: mm hmm, and that we are sulk now I'm you're ready, okay?
Speaker 1: That Sometimes the great deception for us is that a
Speaker 1: lot of our rejection turns us into attention seekers and
Speaker 1: affirmation seekers and acceptance seekers rather than using that rejection
Speaker 1: or that tension, are those challenges, are those problematic people
Speaker 1: to turn us inward? Because ultimately I believe you are
Speaker 1: the AHA, you are the answer, you are the person,
Speaker 1: you are the one, You are it. You are great,
Speaker 1: you are phenomenal, you are brilliance. You're not brilliant, you
Speaker 1: are brilliant. And it takes all of everyone to birth that,
Speaker 1: to make that, to develop that, to manifest that in us.
Speaker 1: But the challenges with rejection and trauma, it can force
Speaker 1: us outward because we're rejected. We make acceptance a fetish.
Speaker 1: We spend our entire lives trying to seek and get
Speaker 1: acceptance rather than seeing that all of it was designed hopefully,
Speaker 1: if it was designed to help us accept ourselves. And
Speaker 1: and that's tough, and it's the truth is. It is
Speaker 1: the lesson of life. It is the most difficult thing
Speaker 1: to turn people inward to see who they are and
Speaker 1: see their possibilities. But it takes the umbrellas, it takes
Speaker 1: the nets, it takes the tension in between. In Atlanta,
Speaker 1: a black mecca that is constantly intertwined with a complicated
Speaker 1: mix of values, finding acceptance isn't always easy, and as
Speaker 1: he knows, breaking out of this need for affirmation and
Speaker 1: learning to love ourselves first isn't something we are used to.
Speaker 1: So when it comes to matters of healing, especially in
Speaker 1: regards to mental health, spiritual health, or physical health, creating
Speaker 1: the spaces that allow people to heal the many parts
Speaker 1: of themselves can be daunting. And as much as Bishop
Speaker 1: Allan places and emphasis on redefining future spaces for ourselves
Speaker 1: and for others, he also realizes that there are outside
Speaker 1: forces at work. In particular, painful, oppressive parts of our
Speaker 1: history that we collectively must address in order to move forward.
Speaker 1: But how do we move past these deep wounds that
Speaker 1: have collectively hurt community so profoundly, much like HIV, poverty
Speaker 1: and racism, And how do these communities heal from their
Speaker 1: history so that their futures are much brighter. It's multi layered.
Speaker 1: And the thing that we don't talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: HIV is much like COVID nineteen HIV, it raises up
Speaker 1: all the disparities that influence it. You know, HIV is
Speaker 1: a victim of homophobia, It's a victim of tortured religion.
Speaker 1: It is the victim of poverty, it is the victim
Speaker 1: of low, selfless same it is the victim of so much,
Speaker 1: you know. And there are so many factors that play
Speaker 1: a role in what causes us to be vulnerable. And
Speaker 1: we cannot discount history. I don't know why. It's so,
Speaker 1: We're just we have been trained to avoid history. We
Speaker 1: have been taught to not put everything in its context.
Speaker 1: Vulnerable populations have a history that was vulnerable. It makes
Speaker 1: sense that the lives of black people are Let's talk
Speaker 1: about the most vulnerable population. Young black gay men are
Speaker 1: at risk because you live in the United States of amnesia.
Speaker 1: And I know we want to move on, and if
Speaker 1: we don't want to talk, I get it. We we
Speaker 1: have been culturated in the same environment, in the same structure,
Speaker 1: in the same system that has its roots and white supremacy.
Speaker 1: That is the legacy, that is the culture, that is
Speaker 1: the room, that is the space, that is that is
Speaker 1: everything that is a determining factor on risk. And we
Speaker 1: you know, as long as I live, I will not
Speaker 1: not raise that because when we talk about every other disparity,
Speaker 1: it could be economic disparity, it points in one direction
Speaker 1: the history of this legacy of this country. We talk
Speaker 1: about health disparity. But while this is what KNDA, what
Speaker 1: Kanda steal sits in Georgia, and what KNDA is not
Speaker 1: larger than Georgia. How are you sit in a space
Speaker 1: of understanding the reality of your life and still wanting
Speaker 1: to build more out of that understanding that you are
Speaker 1: a black gay man that deals with all of the
Speaker 1: off or you are a immigrant that's dealing with all
Speaker 1: this stuff, And how do you get to a place
Speaker 1: where you're like, yeah, I live in this really messy
Speaker 1: place where I am oppressed. I have so much weighing
Speaker 1: down on me, but that's not an excuse to not
Speaker 1: want more for my life. Yeah, I think it is first,
Speaker 1: And I may answer this in a very simplistic way,
Speaker 1: so I'm not suggesting that it is simple. Their layers
Speaker 1: and structures and all kinds of stuff that are designed
Speaker 1: in the world. But I think ultimately it is understanding
Speaker 1: who you are. You are a sexual being, but you're
Speaker 1: greater than the sexuality. The melanine in your skin is
Speaker 1: a biological reality, it's not your spiritual reality. You are
Speaker 1: a spirit that found itself in a body maybe to
Speaker 1: contain you, because you're that great and you're that phenomenal,
Speaker 1: and you're that brilliant and you just had to walk
Speaker 1: into some flesh to kind of walk it out. And
Speaker 1: when you understand that, and you understand your power, you
Speaker 1: understand who you are, you can accomplish anything. I believe
Speaker 1: you are divine, and that is how I think we
Speaker 1: become change agents. You cannot change the world around you
Speaker 1: until you first change your own perception about you. What
Speaker 1: advice you give to people, especially Black ay Men, who
Speaker 1: are so afraid of standing in their truth because they
Speaker 1: think that's one thing will define them, And how do
Speaker 1: you get them to understand that that one thing will
Speaker 1: not define them. It just is the beginning of a
Speaker 1: much bigger conversation that will let them be bigger than
Speaker 1: that one thing. I've said this is a lot of places.
Speaker 1: I believe this wholeheartedly. That you must live in your
Speaker 1: truth so that you don't die and a lie. Live
Speaker 1: in your truth. It's your truth, and it is truth.
Speaker 1: The greatest thing you have is your truth, yours. It's
Speaker 1: not somebody else's truth, and it's no one else's truth
Speaker 1: to define or to explain or It's like this term
Speaker 1: coming out coming out of what I'm inviting you in.
Speaker 1: There's no such thing as come out, come out of what,
Speaker 1: if anything. If I'm coming out, I'm coming out to
Speaker 1: come into something even greater than what I came out of.
Speaker 1: I'm not coming out. I invite everyone in. So we
Speaker 1: have to first change the language. We have to change
Speaker 1: our own language about how we see ourselves. And again,
Speaker 1: this is why I think if you put stuff in
Speaker 1: the context of not religion, but in the context of
Speaker 1: definity or spirituality, that you see yourself as greater than
Speaker 1: your parts. Your parts are important too, because the other
Speaker 1: thing that I don't want to discount is the beauty
Speaker 1: of your parts. And our sexuality is beautiful and it's
Speaker 1: a gift, and it's to be express and is to
Speaker 1: be embraced. It is excellent. Like we must wrap our
Speaker 1: heads around that uniqueness that out of the population, you
Speaker 1: have been given even greater gifting, you know, even greater
Speaker 1: brilliance in your sexuality because your sexuality, particularly those of
Speaker 1: us who are lgbt Q I UM we're talking to,
Speaker 1: particularly young black gay man. Because of it, you have
Speaker 1: a particular wisdom and a particular insight, and a particular understanding,
Speaker 1: a particular thing that has been given to you. Know,
Speaker 1: other culture has understood that, whether it was indigenous and
Speaker 1: native cultures, they understood that two spirit communities cultures in
Speaker 1: Africa and in Asia, they understood that that first of all,
Speaker 1: you have a gifting, and the gifting is you and
Speaker 1: what you understand that, then you can move out of
Speaker 1: this space of trying to get the world to affirm
Speaker 1: what is already affirmed. It's affirm because it's you have it.
Speaker 1: You have it, it is you. And once you can
Speaker 1: do that, then you move out of vulnerability into what
Speaker 1: I call true identity. You are greater than what some
Speaker 1: evangelists said. The Bible never actually did say, or any
Speaker 1: sacred text said, and if it did say it, it
Speaker 1: was still written by somebody. Right. It doesn't matter however
Speaker 1: you slice it. You are greater than the voices, particularly
Speaker 1: the negative voices that have been spoken over you. For
Speaker 1: those of us that often feel overwhelmed by the greatness
Speaker 1: of the world, those of us that look up at
Speaker 1: the stars that think, wow, I'm nothing, I'm so tiny
Speaker 1: in the bigger scheme of things. This message that Bishop
Speaker 1: Alan Bree is so important that your contributions to yourself
Speaker 1: to others, regardless of how big or small, do matter.
Speaker 1: And for him, learning our place in the space, this bigness,
Speaker 1: as he calls it, helps us heal internally. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean you were created out of that bigness. You came
Speaker 1: out of that. Now. You know, if I was talking
Speaker 1: to black people as a whole, a group of black people,
Speaker 1: I would even get more mystical and say, you came
Speaker 1: out of that black sky. Is you, that's you, and
Speaker 1: that is in you, and it was created for you
Speaker 1: and we are both anned. So you are a spec
Speaker 1: but you're also the thing that created the spec and
Speaker 1: I think so many spiritual teachers have have tried to
Speaker 1: say that in one way or another. I think we
Speaker 1: miss it because it is particularly you know, unfortunate lee
Speaker 1: the Christian tradition I came out of, Like, I appreciate
Speaker 1: you saying that you know taught us. You know you
Speaker 1: are dusted, you are nothing, and you are just sing
Speaker 1: and you are at all. Yeah, I don't believe that.
Speaker 1: Like that absolutely contradicts everything I understand about God. Like
Speaker 1: I am wonderfully made, I am beautifully made, I am everything.
Speaker 1: Even my flaws have beauty. It's like a rose. You'll
Speaker 1: look at the beauty of the rose and miss the
Speaker 1: thorns if you're not careful. They're both on the same thing.
Speaker 1: But that's what makes it beautiful. And we have to
Speaker 1: see that. If we can see that, and it takes
Speaker 1: work to see that, that's why we need more zacks,
Speaker 1: we need we need more safe spaces really, because that's
Speaker 1: the point. The point is helping us see who we are. Well,
Speaker 1: it's easy to focus on the other stuff, but how
Speaker 1: about we and our attention to our bigness rather than
Speaker 1: our smallness. Yeah, I love saying this. A stereotype is
Speaker 1: just a chapter in a book someone hasn't fully read.
Speaker 1: Jet you know, for people out there and people out
Speaker 1: there who think who take things like you know, their
Speaker 1: sexuality there j V. Sat As, all these slices of them,
Speaker 1: and if they think that's it that defines them, then
Speaker 1: they need to change that, as you're saying, and see
Speaker 1: the bigness be like, that is a beautiful piece of me.
Speaker 1: But I am all these other things, and within that,
Speaker 1: I am dust and I'm big. Let me tell you
Speaker 1: why I love the story of Jesus so much, um,
Speaker 1: and I would rather follow the principles of Jesus than
Speaker 1: the religion of Jesus. Right that people the religion they
Speaker 1: impolosed on Jesus. But you know what I absolutely absolutely
Speaker 1: think is a very interesting way of looking at the story,
Speaker 1: particularly at the end where you know he's carrying this
Speaker 1: cross through a city and it's just I mean, it's
Speaker 1: really painful and traumatic time for him, and you can
Speaker 1: you know, people make it so religious, but I think
Speaker 1: just the humanistic part of some man carrying a piece
Speaker 1: of huge wood that's bigger than him, it's like carrying
Speaker 1: your sexuality. And you know they nailed him to it.
Speaker 1: That's like your sexuality. You know, people will nail you
Speaker 1: too publicly. You know, even people who have been exposed.
Speaker 1: What is it? Are your HIV status or you know,
Speaker 1: crucify you or ship maybe you crucify yourself. Most of
Speaker 1: us we crucify ourselves. We put ourselves on the cross
Speaker 1: of our trauma. But what I luck about the story,
Speaker 1: this is a great tie into Easter right that if
Speaker 1: I were to turn it into metaphor, that Jesus takes
Speaker 1: that same experience and turns that that whole thing into
Speaker 1: my dynamic resurrection, like turns the whole thing upside down,
Speaker 1: like they complete. I'm gonna use my sexuality and so
Speaker 1: of using as a metaphor as my resurrection, I'm going
Speaker 1: to use all of what I've been through that crucified
Speaker 1: me as a part of my coming out, as a
Speaker 1: part of my growth, as a part of my development,
Speaker 1: as a part of my power. Is my superpower. It
Speaker 1: makes me what conduct because of the trauma, not in
Speaker 1: spite of it, not in spite of it. So whoever's listening,
Speaker 1: if they are HIV positive, or they're struggling with their truth,
Speaker 1: or their family has rejected them, you can turn that
Speaker 1: into your superpower. You can use it, so rather than
Speaker 1: avoid it are move a wife from it, it might
Speaker 1: be your superpower. For Bishop Allen, redefining safe spaces is
Speaker 1: crucial to the healing of the individual, and although these
Speaker 1: safe spaces are communal, he reminds us that the most
Speaker 1: important space is the one within ourselves, that we are
Speaker 1: great and enough and powerful exactly as we are. Throughout
Speaker 1: the season, we've seen how complicated and nonlinear healing can be,
Speaker 1: especially when tapping into those unseen facets of identity. Stepping
Speaker 1: out into the world as simply us with all of
Speaker 1: our contradictory identities, regardless of how messy, complicated, or imperfect
Speaker 1: they are, can be terrifying. But, as Bishop Allen defines it,
Speaker 1: tapping into those different portions of ourselves this bigness helps
Speaker 1: us see that we are so much more than one
Speaker 1: thing or one group, and on the road to healing.
Speaker 1: Believing that we do belong, regardless of our preferences, status,
Speaker 1: or background, is the ultimate key to self love and redemption.
Speaker 1: This has been in the deep stories that shape us,
Speaker 1: and what I want each of you to know that
Speaker 1: has been with us this entire season is that your
Speaker 1: story no matter how big or small, matters, Because you matter.
Speaker 1: Find this episode and others on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Don't forget
Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review if you enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker 1: The show is produced by Ivan Chian and mastered by
Speaker 1: James Foster. Our show researcher is join A Raggio and
Speaker 1: our writer is Evette Lopez. A special shout out to
Speaker 1: our guest Bishop O c Allen. I'm your host, Zack Stafford.