Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and what Good Stuff.
Speaker 2: I never told you production of iHeartRadio, and today we
Speaker 2: are bringing back kind of a dated episode I'll say
Speaker 2: about Martha Stewart, because you and I had been discussing
Speaker 2: the legacy the impact of these magazines that were all
Speaker 2: about like home decor and cooking that were aimed specifically
Speaker 2: towards women generally, and we do have episode coming out
Speaker 2: about that soonish. We're at the end of the year,
Speaker 2: so it's sort of the juggling of the calendar. But
Speaker 2: I was looking into this and I found this quote
Speaker 2: from Delish that I wanted to include holiday cooking. No
Speaker 2: surprise makes us all a bit unhinged. Even though a
Speaker 2: survey found that eighty seven point eight percent of people
Speaker 2: in the US plan to make a holiday meal, a
Speaker 2: whopping seventy percent of the same group said they've lied
Speaker 2: to someone about enjoying a holiday meal. Two and five
Speaker 2: Americans even say that the holidays negatively impact their mental health,
Speaker 2: with thirty nine percent saying that holiday meals are often
Speaker 2: the main source of their stress. Martha Stewart has also
Speaker 2: thrown in the hat this year, canceling her own Thanksgiving celebration.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's true it did. Like preparation around it,
Speaker 2: food and all the other stuff too, is very very stressful.
Speaker 2: But I think that it's interesting that Martha Stewart was like,
Speaker 2: I'm good.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know why. I feel like Martha
Speaker 3: Stewart is a lone wolf in my mind outside of
Speaker 3: Snoop Dogg, So I don't imagine I don't imagine her
Speaker 3: having a big gathering, even though I know she can't.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, right, Yeah, yeah, and I do.
Speaker 2: I have spoken to several people I know who ordered
Speaker 2: food or just cook like simple things like have sort
Speaker 2: of stepped away from this traditional big thing, and they
Speaker 2: always seem really happy. They always seem really happy with it.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I think it's worth considering if, like,
Speaker 2: if it's causing you that much stress.
Speaker 3: Because we definitely had that conversation about friends give us
Speaker 3: for us, And there was a point in my social life,
Speaker 3: I guess where I felt like if I only had
Speaker 3: one fite, it was very sad. That means I didn't
Speaker 3: have a lot of group of friends, so like having
Speaker 3: two or three, Like I was jealous of the people
Speaker 3: who had two or three of them because they had
Speaker 3: so many friends. And now I'm like, once stresses me out.
Speaker 3: I'm like, man, I need to downsath my group because
Speaker 3: they wanted two friends. Give us.
Speaker 4: Just kidding.
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it.
Speaker 5: It was stressful, right, Actually it was very stressful, but
Speaker 5: uh like to the point that, like my thoughts about
Speaker 5: it has changed so drastically about holiday mills and I'm like, oh, mis, fine,
Speaker 5: it's fine.
Speaker 3: Just one is good.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I know I've said I've shared the story before,
Speaker 2: but I started when I was in high school. I
Speaker 2: asked my mom to teach me how to cook our
Speaker 2: traditional meal. And because I was like, well I one day.
Speaker 2: At the time, I believed I would have my own
Speaker 2: family and I need to know how to do all
Speaker 2: of this. And now we're like a good team and
Speaker 2: we do it together. But it is funny to me
Speaker 2: that in high school I was like, you must teach
Speaker 2: me the ways for my own family.
Speaker 4: Did not even play in my mind.
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I'll figure this out later.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 2: Yes, Well, whatever meals you're cooking or not cooking, whatever
Speaker 2: you're enjoying, we hope that you're enjoying it, and please
Speaker 2: enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 4: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how Stuff
Speaker 4: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline.
Speaker 6: And first Caroline, let me apologize to you from my
Speaker 6: slightly sick rasty voice. I don't know it kind of
Speaker 6: sounds sixy yeah, now that I'm hearing myself, I kind
Speaker 6: of sound exactly like I always do.
Speaker 1: So maybe throw some convincing coughs in there.
Speaker 6: Anyway, today we are talking about Martha Stewart, which has
Speaker 6: absolutely no connection whatsoever to the little cold that I
Speaker 6: have developed. But I thought I would start things off
Speaker 6: by sharing what Martha's doing today. You know, on our calendar,
Speaker 6: Caroline today probably said something along the lines.
Speaker 4: Of podcasting yeah, or that Martha Stewart podcasting.
Speaker 6: Well. I went to Marthastewart dot com to look at
Speaker 6: her planning calendar that she has, and for today, Martha's
Speaker 6: to do list is make chicken and vegetable stocks, freeze them,
Speaker 6: and then tomorrow she's playing to.
Speaker 4: Pick spinach and lettuce from the greenhouse for salads. That
Speaker 4: sounds like a good thing.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's true? Maybe I'm cynical.
Speaker 4: I would like for it to be true.
Speaker 6: Honestly, it's really overcast today that we're recording and staying
Speaker 6: at home making chicken and vegetable stocks and freezing them
Speaker 6: and maybe putting on an afghan afterwards and curling up
Speaker 6: with some Cama mild tea.
Speaker 1: But I don't think she does that. She's a busy lady.
Speaker 4: She never said.
Speaker 1: The reason that I'm cynical that she's actually making chicken
Speaker 1: stock today is that she is the head of an empire,
Speaker 1: a Martha Stewart Empire.
Speaker 4: She has plenty of people to make chicken stocks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she can just call on her chicken stock servant
Speaker 1: and they can do it.
Speaker 4: We're not claiming that Martha Stewart has servants disclaim her.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying if I had a lot of money
Speaker 1: and I wanted chicken stock all the time.
Speaker 4: You could probably find someone today could.
Speaker 1: Hire someone to make it for me.
Speaker 6: But speaking of Martha Stewart as a businesswoman, one of
Speaker 6: the reasons why we wanted to have this podcast today
Speaker 6: about Martha is because things are not going quite so great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's one area of her empire that is suffering
Speaker 1: of late, the Hallmark Channel is preparing to cancel the
Speaker 1: Martha Stewart Show, which will air through the end of
Speaker 1: the summer summer twenty twelve. Production will cease in April
Speaker 1: and reruns will air through the end of the summer.
Speaker 6: And I think the Martha Stewart Show originally started out
Speaker 6: on NBC and then moved to Hallmark and it's run
Speaker 6: for a total of seven seasons on both channels, but
Speaker 6: has recently seen a slide in ratings. And also there
Speaker 6: have been complaints about production costs, so Martha Stewart Show
Speaker 6: Bye bye, as well as a home depot pulling it's
Speaker 6: line of Martha Stewart Living paint.
Speaker 4: Oh, so it was double whammy news, both reported in
Speaker 4: the in the New York Post a few days ago.
Speaker 1: Well, good news for Martha fans who like to watch
Speaker 1: her on TV. She is well not she her her
Speaker 1: giant empire. Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia is in talks with
Speaker 1: the network, according to network reps, about potential news show
Speaker 1: formats and concepts, So it's very possible she might develop
Speaker 1: something else. And even if she doesn't form another show
Speaker 1: on the Hallmark channel, she's got plenty else going on.
Speaker 4: She does omnimedia.
Speaker 6: I mean, if that doesn't kind of media. Hintet how
Speaker 6: many balls she's juggling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, omni like omnivore or omniscient things that are a
Speaker 1: lot of things.
Speaker 4: Or omni the former sports facility to Lada, Georgia where.
Speaker 1: I saw Bush in seventh grade. Anyway, Okay, do we
Speaker 1: want to talk about omnimedia now that we've Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 4: Just gonna let you drive this car, Okay.
Speaker 6: Martha Stewart living on the media comprises four main areas publishing, Internet, broadcasting,
Speaker 6: and merchandising, all of which is cross promoted.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, because you'll notice, I mean, just talking about
Speaker 1: the merchandising alone if you've ever been. She doesn't have
Speaker 1: a relationship with Kmart anymore, but I remember buying things
Speaker 1: of hers at Kmart. Half of the stuff in my
Speaker 1: apartment right now is Martha Stewart from Macy's. Yeah. She
Speaker 1: has a lot, a lot of products out there and
Speaker 1: lines for home depot which Christian just said the paint
Speaker 1: had been pulled sears Macy's Walmart. She has craft stuff
Speaker 1: at Michael's.
Speaker 4: She also has.
Speaker 1: Home cleaning products, pet products so that your pet can
Speaker 1: be preppy just like Martha.
Speaker 4: What if they have.
Speaker 1: Little pet button ups? Just like Martha, I bet, and
Speaker 1: little wigs, Oh my god, I'm a genius. Okay, brands
Speaker 1: of wine, and a line of fresh and frozen foods.
Speaker 1: And the one that blew my mind was home construction MSLO.
Speaker 1: Martha Stuart Living Omnimedia is involved in home construction. It
Speaker 1: builds and sells houses modeled after Stuart's homes in New
Speaker 1: York and Maine.
Speaker 4: Wow, so you can live in your very own Martha Stewart.
Speaker 1: Eating her food, home, buying her crafts. Wow. Yeah, I bet.
Speaker 1: I wonder if she has frozen chicken stock that you
Speaker 1: can buy.
Speaker 6: Probably, but merchandising just one of those four pillars. Publishing
Speaker 6: really makes up a bulk of MSLO.
Speaker 4: She has published so many books.
Speaker 6: She has magazines such as Martha Stewart Living, Weddings, Everyday, Food,
Speaker 6: and Whole Living, as well as special holiday and family
Speaker 6: themed magazine issues. And I want to say that Martha
Speaker 6: Stewart Living magazine circulation, which was the first and obviously
Speaker 6: her cornerstone publication, peaked at two point one million.
Speaker 4: Sheld not that at all.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Martha Stuart Living kind of intimidates me
Speaker 1: because I feel like I look at it and it
Speaker 1: just looks at me back and it goes, You're not
Speaker 1: serious enough, you don't really want this, You're not a
Speaker 1: crafter now.
Speaker 6: Just imagining you staring down Martha stewartt Living the grocery
Speaker 6: store aisle.
Speaker 1: Well, I do I stand there in line at publics
Speaker 1: or wherever and just stare at the magazine and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm not I know, I'm not worthy. I'll just pick
Speaker 1: up I'll just pick up another.
Speaker 4: Imaginally just slides behind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the tabloid magazines, just slides in front
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 6: And in addition to print publishing, of course, she has
Speaker 6: her Internet properties such as Martha Stewart dot Com, as
Speaker 6: well as radio, TV and other kinds of broadcast properties.
Speaker 1: There's Everyday Food on PBS, and she has the Martha
Speaker 1: Stewart Living Radio program. Apparently she has a pretty serious
Speaker 1: presence on Serious Satellite radio, and according to her page
Speaker 1: on Serious Radio's website, Martha Stewart Living Radio with the
Speaker 1: nation's first twenty four hour, seven day a week radio
Speaker 1: service dedicated to created living.
Speaker 6: And one thing I didn't realize was that Martha Stewart
Speaker 6: basically bought the rights to.
Speaker 4: Chef Emerald Lagassi and all of his properties.
Speaker 1: As well expanding the brand. You gotta look forward, yeah,
Speaker 1: can't look back.
Speaker 6: Basically buy just by personalities, which is kind of fascinating
Speaker 6: when you think about it. So that is Martha Stewart
Speaker 6: the business.
Speaker 4: And I'm sorry to keep being the deb downer of.
Speaker 6: This episode, but in June twenty eleven, they reported that
Speaker 6: the company had sold almost forty three million dollars worth
Speaker 6: of products, but at the end of the year was
Speaker 6: ten million dollars in the red.
Speaker 4: And in fact, it's lost money seven out of the
Speaker 4: last eight years.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's why she's looking to expand the brand,
Speaker 1: because you know, she brought her daughter Alexis on board,
Speaker 1: and Alexis had the Whatever Martha Show, and she had
Speaker 1: a show on Serious Radio also with Jeff her co host, Jennifer.
Speaker 1: And Martha did say in interviews with New York Magazine
Speaker 1: that she was quite aware that maybe her traditional shows
Speaker 1: did not appeal the crafting and the cooking and all
Speaker 1: that's handmade in the chicken stock maybe didn't appeal to
Speaker 1: people of our generation so much that she's bringing on
Speaker 1: her daughter to kind of spice things up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but before we.
Speaker 6: Talk about the future of MSLO, perhaps we should revisit
Speaker 6: the past and find out, yes, and find out how
Speaker 6: Martha Stewart got her start, because even as a child,
Speaker 6: she was quite the talented gal she.
Speaker 1: Was, and she had help from everyone around her who
Speaker 1: infisted on helping her. At the age of three, her dad,
Speaker 1: who was a pharmaceuticals salesman, taught her to garden. He
Speaker 1: was an avid gardener himself, and so at the age
Speaker 1: of three. I don't know what I was doing at
Speaker 1: the age of three, but I'm pretty sure it was
Speaker 1: involving barbies, not gardening. She also learned cooking and sewing
Speaker 1: from her mother, and her grandparents taught her to make preserves. Again,
Speaker 1: my childhood apparently pales in comparison.
Speaker 6: Well, not to mention all of that, some retired bakers
Speaker 6: who lived next door to her taught.
Speaker 4: Her to make pies and cakes.
Speaker 1: Sounds like the most idyllic country childhood, but in fact,
Speaker 1: she grew up in New Jersey.
Speaker 4: M hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 6: She says that she came from a modest home in
Speaker 6: New Jersey and that her brothers would hunt and fish,
Speaker 6: and kind of describes it as sort of a hard
Speaker 6: scrabble upbringing, but I don't know, it's still little.
Speaker 4: House in Jersey.
Speaker 6: Yes, she was a straight A student and won a
Speaker 6: scholarship to Barnard where she studied art, European history, and
Speaker 6: architectural history. And not only that, The Fair Maiden also
Speaker 6: modeled to cover expenses, and she continued a successful modeling career,
Speaker 6: appearing in print and TV ads for Breck Claarl Life,
Speaker 6: Booy Soap, and Taryton Cigarettes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was all over the place, the Stuart who knew.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And in nineteen sixty one she got married to
Speaker 6: law student Andrew Stuart.
Speaker 1: Right, and she actually followed in the footsteps of his
Speaker 1: father and in nineteen sixty seven became a stockbroker, which
Speaker 1: I mean this, lady, I mean, I've never heard of anyone.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of this before. This is pretty impressive, Martha.
Speaker 1: To have this background in modeling and yet art and architecture,
Speaker 1: and then to go and become a stockbroker. That just
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like the traditional path, So that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1: She left in nineteen seventy three when a recession hit
Speaker 1: Wall Street, and then she and her husband moved up
Speaker 1: to Connecticut and fixed up an old farmhouse.
Speaker 6: And while living at the old farmhouse, it seems like
Speaker 6: Martha tapped back into those early kind of homemaking skills
Speaker 6: that she.
Speaker 4: Learned as a child.
Speaker 6: In nineteen seventy six, she starts a catering business out
Speaker 6: of her basement while managing a gourmet food store in town.
Speaker 6: And by building connections through this catering business and really
Speaker 6: setting up a high priced clientele and by networking through
Speaker 6: this catering business, Martha Stewart really makes a name for herself.
Speaker 6: And that's what propels her to publish her first book,
Speaker 6: Martha Stewart's Entertaining in nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the best selling This is also blowing me away,
Speaker 1: the best selling cookbook since Julia Child's Mastering the Art
Speaker 1: of French Cooking. And I think it's really interesting that
Speaker 1: that's the one it beat, because that is how she
Speaker 1: taught herself gourmet cooking. Yeah, was using Julia Child's cookbook.
Speaker 6: And then within ten years of starting her own catering
Speaker 6: business in the basement of an old farmhouse, she grows
Speaker 6: it into a million dollar business.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Why, Yeah, of course of course she did.
Speaker 6: Because she's Martha, Because she's Martha, and then in nineteen
Speaker 6: eighty nine she divorces Andrew Stewart, and the year later
Speaker 6: she starts her own magazine, Martha Stewart Living, which.
Speaker 4: Really propels her more public persona.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she started appearing on talk shows, and she got
Speaker 1: her own thirty minute show, which then because of its popularity,
Speaker 1: expanded to an hour with thirty minute episodes on the weekend.
Speaker 1: So she's really kind of a busy lady from the
Speaker 1: get go mm h.
Speaker 6: And then by nineteen ninety three, she starts up that
Speaker 6: relationship with Kmart that you mentioned earlier Caroline for a
Speaker 6: reported five million dollars over ten years. And then by
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety seven, she's purchased all the publishing, broadcasting, merchandising,
Speaker 6: and licensing ventures that bear her name and consolidated all
Speaker 6: of them into MSLO, that Omnimedia corporation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, smart move, And in nineteen ninety nine the company
Speaker 1: goes public and the share price more than doubles the
Speaker 1: first day of trading, and like a Smarty, she retains
Speaker 1: the most of the shares and served as chairman, president,
Speaker 1: and CEO.
Speaker 6: So things are going really well for Martha in the
Speaker 6: early two thousands.
Speaker 1: Yeah, two thousand and one, Ladies home Journal names are
Speaker 1: the third most powerful woman in America, which isn't too shabby.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and then a great honor is bestowed upon her
Speaker 6: when she is invited to join the New York Stock
Speaker 6: Exchange Board of Directors in June.
Speaker 4: Two thousand and two. But then, but then a doc
Speaker 4: chapter arrives.
Speaker 6: She resigns four months later when the Securities and Exchange
Speaker 6: Commission accuses Martha Stewart of violating inside trader rules, leading
Speaker 6: MSLOS share prices to plummet, and the TV show gets
Speaker 6: the acts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure most of you remember, or I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe you don't, but she was under investigation for selling
Speaker 1: hundreds of shares of m Clone just before the FDA
Speaker 1: announced it was not approving the company's new cancer drug.
Speaker 1: So once that announcement came out, the value of the
Speaker 1: stock plummeted.
Speaker 6: And it just so happened that Martha Stewart, who was
Speaker 6: sitting on the Stock Exchange Board of Directors, obviously, you know,
Speaker 6: just kind of got rid of those cheers just to
Speaker 6: the nick of time.
Speaker 1: We don't know what happened, Nope, we don't. We don't
Speaker 1: claim to know what happened. But in June two thousand
Speaker 1: and three, an indictment charged her with securities fraud, obstruction
Speaker 1: of justice, conspiracy, and making false statements to prosecutors and
Speaker 1: the FBI. And while she pleaded innocent to all charges
Speaker 1: and a judge eventually dismissed the securities fraud charge, a
Speaker 1: jury found her guilty of the rest and she was
Speaker 1: sentenced to five months in prison and fined thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 6: And I remember just how the media was fascinated by
Speaker 6: this Martha stear thing because it's in such stark contrast
Speaker 6: to this perfect kind of homemaking.
Speaker 4: You know, let's make our own stationary and make a
Speaker 4: little little little stamps and send letters to friends.
Speaker 6: And now she's sitting in the courtroom with Alexis, her daughter,
Speaker 6: faced in the front row.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think it just it showed that there
Speaker 1: was a lot more to Martha Stuart than maybe we
Speaker 1: all assumed. She really is a tough, hard nosed business
Speaker 1: woman and who just so happens to have shows and
Speaker 1: radio programs and magazines about like traditionally feminine soft pursuits
Speaker 1: like crafting.
Speaker 6: Yeah, which is interesting because you know, this whole time
Speaker 6: she's single, it's not like she's actually homemaking in that
Speaker 6: kind of traditional sense of the word.
Speaker 4: But more there was an argument.
Speaker 6: That it's the kind of homemaking skills that Martha Stewart
Speaker 6: practices are okay in terms of gender politics because she's
Speaker 6: doing it for herself.
Speaker 1: Right, Because it's not as if she's Her shows and
Speaker 1: magazines are about making dinner every single night and doing
Speaker 1: the laundry and everything. It's more of a creative homemaking
Speaker 1: stuff to satisfy yourself. Right.
Speaker 6: But after Martha Stewart serves her five months in jail,
Speaker 6: she immediately sets out rebuilding her brand and getting herself
Speaker 6: back out into the public eye and connecting with her fans.
Speaker 6: And it's kind of incredible to see how she almost immediately,
Speaker 6: I guess, refurbishes her reputation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she gets a weekly call in show on serious
Speaker 1: satellite radio. She puts out new books, The Martha Rules,
Speaker 1: the Martha Stewart Baking Handbook, and the Homekeeping Handbook. And
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, was she just really busy, I guess
Speaker 1: during her incarceration, just like I'll just write all this
Speaker 1: stuff while I'm well, I'm in the clink.
Speaker 4: Well it provided.
Speaker 6: As Alexis Stewart tells New York Magazine, at one point
Speaker 6: she said, the five months were actually great.
Speaker 4: Because it was the most free time.
Speaker 1: It was enforced rest, right, So it's.
Speaker 6: Actually not that surprising that she comes out with all
Speaker 6: of these books right after it.
Speaker 1: Look what she can do when she can take some
Speaker 1: time off, Yeah, create all this stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But within a year of her release, MSLO returned to profitability,
Speaker 1: So that's a huge turnaround.
Speaker 6: And then in September of twenty eleven, she returned to
Speaker 6: the board of MSLO, which was the marking the end
Speaker 6: of a five year band that she had from serving
Speaker 6: on any kind of board or as executive of a
Speaker 6: public company as part of her settlement with the SEC
Speaker 6: over her insider trading charges. So obviously, on paper, Martha
Speaker 6: Stewart is an incredibly savvy businesswoman who started out with
Speaker 6: a catering business in her basement, and you know, is
Speaker 6: now the head of this multimillion dollar corporation, and she
Speaker 6: somehow recovered from going to jail over insider trading charges.
Speaker 4: But the real question on my mind, and probably on listeners' minds.
Speaker 6: Too, is what does Martha Stewart really mean maybe for
Speaker 6: women in general, like that whole question of whether or
Speaker 6: not all of these.
Speaker 4: All that good housekeeping that she.
Speaker 6: Espouses, if it's worth our time, the kind of time
Speaker 6: that you obviously have to dedicate on a Tuesday to
Speaker 6: making chicken stock, to freeze.
Speaker 4: Things like that.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's like, is it realistic? That's kind of
Speaker 6: Martha Stewart fantasy.
Speaker 1: Right, and New York The New York Times magazine did
Speaker 1: ask her that, I mean, is it the best use
Speaker 1: of modern women's time to make pillows out of their
Speaker 1: husband's old shirts? And she she kind of got a
Speaker 1: little a little defensive.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she was icy with that question.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you could you could feel the frost
Speaker 1: on that piece of paper while it was on my computer,
Speaker 1: but you get the idea. But yeah, she was basically
Speaker 1: arguing that that's not really the issue. It's if people
Speaker 1: enjoy it and want to be creative. It's better to
Speaker 1: make a pillow out of a shirt than having it
Speaker 1: end up on the trash heap.
Speaker 4: Right, or going and buying a pillow. The whole kind
Speaker 4: of diy type.
Speaker 6: Of thing that she you could say, she's partially responsible
Speaker 6: for kicking off.
Speaker 1: But don't call her a feminist.
Speaker 6: No, No, she had an interesting thing to say about
Speaker 6: feminism and male ambition and female pursuits. She said, quote,
Speaker 6: I don't think in a male or female way. I
Speaker 6: don't differentiate between male and female.
Speaker 4: I never have.
Speaker 6: I'm not considered a feminist. Do we really need to
Speaker 6: waste time saying I'm a feminist. I never thought about
Speaker 6: glass dealings. I never thought about glass floors me neither.
Speaker 6: That sounds dangerous.
Speaker 4: I was thinking about how.
Speaker 6: Many pies I can come up with for my Pies
Speaker 6: and Tarts book. Those are all original ideas.
Speaker 1: So here she's saying, why bother talking about whether I'm
Speaker 1: a feminist or whether you're a feminist or feminism in general.
Speaker 1: Just do what you're doing, and I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was an interesting point. I
Speaker 1: thought it was kind of refreshing in a way. I
Speaker 1: think she's doing incredible things for a woman, you know,
Speaker 1: running this company. She had her hand in just everything.
Speaker 1: It's it's I think it's really impressive. It's just kind
Speaker 1: of like, oh, wow, you're you're pretty. I don't know,
Speaker 1: does it seems like she's against feminism or she just
Speaker 1: doesn't even want to bother with it.
Speaker 4: I think I can.
Speaker 6: I think it's an issue of not wanting to bother
Speaker 6: with it, because it's it's the whole argument of is
Speaker 6: this so impressive.
Speaker 4: That I've done this? Because I've done this as a woman.
Speaker 6: If I were a man running the same company, you
Speaker 6: wouldn't be so blown away.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you wouldn't be asking me these same questions.
Speaker 6: So it's it seems like it may be ticked off
Speaker 6: a thing in her brain, and she's like me.
Speaker 1: Pies and tart. I'm just I am a mogul who
Speaker 1: makes pie. Just leave me alone. And you know, glass floors,
Speaker 1: stay off them.
Speaker 6: And Anne Mason and Marian Myers and two thousand and
Speaker 6: six conducted in depth interviews with ten Martha Stewart fans
Speaker 6: to kind of.
Speaker 4: See if they could get into.
Speaker 6: The why of her appeal, especially because there is that
Speaker 6: whole fantasy aspect of it. I mean, how many parodies
Speaker 6: have we seen of Martha Stewart and her incredibly lofty
Speaker 6: crafting projects.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't pursue them, like I said,
Speaker 1: I mean, the magazine intimidates me.
Speaker 6: Just looking at the cover, right, because it is a
Speaker 6: lot to live up to, but apparently, according to these
Speaker 6: in depth interviews, that is part of the appeal.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Much of what they say is that much of
Speaker 1: what Stuart presents in her media has traditionally been considered
Speaker 1: quote unquote women's work. But she's she's presenting it in
Speaker 1: a different way. And we kind of touched on this earlier.
Speaker 1: It's it's giving women, as they say Mason and Meyer say,
Speaker 1: it's giving women the permission to be interested in the
Speaker 1: domestic arena because she's not doing like like we said earlier,
Speaker 1: it's not like her show is about doing the laundry
Speaker 1: and separating the whites and the darks. It's it's something
Speaker 1: that maybe women can be like, Oh well I do
Speaker 1: like crafts, Yeah, I do like baking. Why should I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm not being a feminist or not being
Speaker 1: powerful or not making myself happy? You know, I just
Speaker 1: want to make pies?
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6: I mean there's a definite value to that, and that
Speaker 6: it's not like you have to in order to accept
Speaker 6: feminist ideology, you have to reject X activities.
Speaker 1: Right, just like traditional traditional women's.
Speaker 4: Roles, you can be a feminist baker.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And the Myers and Mason concluded that Stuart plays
Speaker 6: three main roles in the lives of the super fans.
Speaker 6: It encourages the fantasy of an upper class lifestyle of
Speaker 6: elegance and luxury, obviously because you know that's really the
Speaker 6: only way you would have time to do all the
Speaker 6: things on her to do list. It provides an escape
Speaker 6: from the daily lives, validating the women's interests in domesticity.
Speaker 4: And it also fosters.
Speaker 6: Creativity and feelings of accomplishment and pride among those who
Speaker 6: complete projects and recipes. And I have endless admiration for
Speaker 6: friends of mine who are crafty and handy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I am not.
Speaker 1: I can't draw anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I enjoy cooking, But when it comes to crafting.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I can't cut a straight line.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I blame that though on me being left handed
Speaker 4: with scissors.
Speaker 1: I blame it on I have nothing to blame it on.
Speaker 4: I just try you use a steak knife instead of scissors.
Speaker 1: Construction, stab the paper, tear with my teeth. But these
Speaker 1: two writers point out that not only is Martha Start
Speaker 1: providing all of these outlets for your creativity and your
Speaker 1: and your baking tendencies, but she's giving you a lot
Speaker 1: of ways to do it. Yeah. Because of her radio
Speaker 1: shows and her books, and her magazines, and her TV
Speaker 1: shows and now her daughter's show and and all this stuff,
Speaker 1: you have the ability to watch or listen or read
Speaker 1: whenever you want kind of and and make it fit
Speaker 1: your lifestyle.
Speaker 6: And she has such a big emphasis on organization and
Speaker 6: play and scheduling.
Speaker 4: I'm sure those are a number of lessons that I
Speaker 4: could probably learn from Martha Stewart.
Speaker 6: And Joan Holloway and Rachel Moseley write about Martha Stewart
Speaker 6: as well and feminism and popular culture, and they claim
Speaker 6: that she is a housewife who is not a housewife,
Speaker 6: which I think is an interesting point, and also that
Speaker 6: her world is a sublime reversal of the feminist domestic
Speaker 6: labor debate in the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 4: I'm assuming by opening up.
Speaker 6: That door to allow saying it's okay to appreciate certain
Speaker 6: aspects of domesticity while still being an independent, multi millionaire
Speaker 6: woman running her own empire.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I would.
Speaker 6: Argue that in the real world, as opposed to the
Speaker 6: Martha world perhaps, and Crafters and other people out.
Speaker 4: There listening, I'm very curious to get your in your
Speaker 4: feedback on this.
Speaker 6: But I would argue that in the real world, perhaps
Speaker 6: the echo of Martha Stewart is the whole rebirth of
Speaker 6: and DIY and Etsy and huge projects like that.
Speaker 1: It seems to have, I don't know, benefited a lot
Speaker 1: of women's lives. Yeah, and men sure are they're crafty men. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean if she, if she inspires anyone to follow
Speaker 1: their interests, that's great. I happen to have a couple
Speaker 1: of friends who make really neat things on Etsy. I
Speaker 1: can't do it, but I admire them for doing it.
Speaker 1: M hm. So I think all in all, we can
Speaker 1: say that Martha Stewart's a pretty polarizing figure. She sort
Speaker 1: of reminds me of Oprah in in some ways. How
Speaker 1: some people love her and some people just can't stand her.
Speaker 1: And you know, she shapes maybe what people are are
Speaker 1: interested in by what she presents her in her media.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean it's kind of this thing of
Speaker 4: is she.
Speaker 7: The champion of crafting in a rebirth and appreciation of
Speaker 7: DIY and domesticity, or is she, as she's been called,
Speaker 7: an uber wasp and chief executive housewife archetype of white
Speaker 7: femininity and immigrant.
Speaker 1: Dream A nice quote. Yeah, So what do you think?
Speaker 1: Do you like do you like Martha? Do you do
Speaker 1: you follow her shows? Do you do her crafts, baker
Speaker 1: pies and tarts? Or are you like weird? Does she
Speaker 1: creep you out? I don't know any any thoughts at all,
Speaker 1: anywhere in between.
Speaker 4: You can send them our way. It's mom stuff at
Speaker 4: HowStuffWorks dot com, or if you would like to send
Speaker 4: us a hen crafted letter on on balsam wood stationery,
Speaker 4: we have an.
Speaker 6: Snale mail address too that you can find at HowStuffWorks
Speaker 6: dot com.
Speaker 4: And in the meantime, we got a couple of letters
Speaker 4: here printed out on copy paper white.
Speaker 6: I've got one here from Sarah and this was in
Speaker 6: response to our man flu episode in which we mentioned
Speaker 6: something called cytomegalovirus and she writes it was treated with
Speaker 6: some disdain in your man flu episode. And this was
Speaker 6: disappointing because according to the March of Dimes, it is
Speaker 6: the most most common congenital infection in the United States,
Speaker 6: as forty thousand.
Speaker 4: Babies are born with CMB.
Speaker 6: This will cause mental retardation in a whole host of
Speaker 6: disabling conditions. In four thousand of them. On a personal note,
Speaker 6: from age thirteen to sixteen, I lived with a stepbrother
Speaker 6: who was one of those four thousand. He's few years
Speaker 6: older than me and suffered moderate mental retardation as well
Speaker 6: as hearing loss and mildfoot and like deformities. Throughout the
Speaker 6: time he lived with us, he watched both myself and
Speaker 6: his biological sister go through all the typical.
Speaker 4: Teenage milestones, knowing that he would never experience them for himself.
Speaker 6: He was just intelligent enough to know that he had
Speaker 6: problems and that he would never be able to live
Speaker 6: a normal life. At one point, he asked why he
Speaker 6: had to be born with all of this and how
Speaker 6: his life was.
Speaker 4: Going to be, and he was very bitter most of
Speaker 4: the time.
Speaker 6: This had a huge impact on my views on abortion
Speaker 6: and was my first step towards feminism.
Speaker 4: So thanks for pointing that out.
Speaker 6: About cytomegalovirus CMB and you can find out more information
Speaker 6: about it at Marchofdimes dot com.
Speaker 1: From Morgan This is about our Imaginary Friend podcast, she said,
Speaker 1: I'm a girl, second child, and I had about twenty
Speaker 1: different imaginary friends. It could have been because I'm homeschooled
Speaker 1: and was lonely. I don't know, because my older brother
Speaker 1: had one as well. The one I remember most was
Speaker 1: a monster from the book There's a Nightmare in My Closet.
Speaker 1: I was very scared of it as a kid, but
Speaker 1: for some reason, I watched the movie and read the
Speaker 1: book thirty times a day. And how I got my
Speaker 1: imaginary friend was that I was in a car and
Speaker 1: it was very dark, and the monster smashed against the
Speaker 1: window and followed me home, and I was very scared,
Speaker 1: but he wouldn't leave me alone, so we became friends.
Speaker 1: Kind of strange, I guess, because he always protected me
Speaker 1: after we were friends. Thanks Morgan, I like that story
Speaker 1: so again.
Speaker 4: If you have any thoughts to send our away about
Speaker 4: Martha Stewart? Is she a good thing? Forgot to drop
Speaker 4: her key catchphrase this entire podcast? Yeah, is Martha Stewart
Speaker 4: a good thing?
Speaker 6: Let us know mom Stuff at housetuffworks dot com, or
Speaker 6: you can leave a comment up on our Facebook page
Speaker 6: or shout out on Twitter at moms Stuff Podcast, and
Speaker 6: you can also check out the blog during the week
Speaker 6: It's stuff Mom Never Told You at HowStuffWorks dot com.
Speaker 4: Be sure to check out our new video podcast Stuff
Speaker 4: from the future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we
Speaker 4: explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The
Speaker 4: House Stuffworks iPhone app has a rived.
Speaker 7: Download it today on iTunes, brought.
Speaker 4: To you by the reinvented twenty twelve camera. It's ready,
Speaker 4: are you