Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a
Speaker 1: licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to
Speaker 1: find a therapist in your area, visit our website at
Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love
Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not
Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a
Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, Happy New Year, and
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for Session three party
Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right
Speaker 1: into our conversation after a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2: I'm six five four three two one.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to welcome you into twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: by kicking off the third edition of the Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Girls January Jumpstart mini series. All month long, we'll
Speaker 1: host conversations with talented black women leaders across creative and
Speaker 1: professional mediums to assist you in putting the p and
Speaker 1: prioritizing your personal growth. If you've been holding back on
Speaker 1: doing you this is your sign to jump headfirst into
Speaker 1: the possibilities of a new year. They're an endless amount
Speaker 1: of studies that show how hobbies can be beneficial to
Speaker 1: our mental health and wellness. However, it can be understandably
Speaker 1: difficult to choose what hobby to take on or even
Speaker 1: know where to start. If this sounds like you, then
Speaker 1: don't for it, because in this first part of our
Speaker 1: January Jumpstart mini series, we're highlighting sewing and breaking down
Speaker 1: everything you need to know in order to make it
Speaker 1: your new year hobby. Joining us for this conversation is
Speaker 1: Lisa Wolford, a scholar, soist, community organizer, and podcaster. She's
Speaker 1: the founder of Black Women's Stitch, the sewing group where
Speaker 1: Black lives Matter. She's also the host and producer of
Speaker 1: Stitch Please, a weekly audio podcast that centers black women, girls,
Speaker 1: and films in sewing. Lisa and I chatted about the
Speaker 1: supplies you should invest in as a beginning soist, how
Speaker 1: you can make time for sewing in your busy life,
Speaker 1: and how sewing can teach you less and self compassion
Speaker 1: and forgiveness. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,
Speaker 1: please share it with us on social media using the
Speaker 1: hashtag TBG in session, or join us over in the
Speaker 1: Sister Circle to talk more about the episode. You can
Speaker 1: join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com.
Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: us today, Lisa.
Speaker 2: I am delighted at honor to be here. Thank you
Speaker 2: for having me.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. There is quite an inspiring story behind Black
Speaker 1: Women's Stitch. Can you tell us the backstory about how
Speaker 1: you started?
Speaker 2: I started because I built what I needed. This was
Speaker 2: an example of coming together and transforming pain into a
Speaker 2: beautiful community that has helped us stay in me as
Speaker 2: well as the black women and black creatives in generally.
Speaker 2: I started Black Women's Stitch in the wake of my
Speaker 2: time as an organizer in Charlottesville, Virginia during a very
Speaker 2: vicious and powerful incursion of white supremacist violence in the
Speaker 2: summer of twenty seventeen. Charlottesville, Virginia had a clan or
Speaker 2: Nazi rally every month throughout that entire summer. We had
Speaker 2: a torch rally that was unreported in May, we had
Speaker 2: a small rally in June. The clan came in July,
Speaker 2: and in August we had the largest white supremacist rally
Speaker 2: in US history up to that date. They were coming
Speaker 2: to protest the removal of the Roberty Lee statues, but
Speaker 2: they were really coming to defend their white right to
Speaker 2: control public space. I joined a Black Lives Matter group
Speaker 2: during that time, and we did lots of organizing. We
Speaker 2: would go to meetings, we held teachings, we did lots
Speaker 2: of different things. And the reason I chose to do
Speaker 2: it was because I just could not believe that in
Speaker 2: this day and age of twenty seventeen, that I would
Speaker 2: have to tell my one hundred year old grandma that
Speaker 2: I had to go protest the Klan. It was appalling,
Speaker 2: and so Black Women Stitch as a very long story.
Speaker 2: We started with, in some ways devastation. It started because
Speaker 2: after surviving a white supremacist terror attack that happened on
Speaker 2: August eleventh and twelfth. August eleventh, you might recall, was
Speaker 2: what was called the Tiki Torch Rally. That's when white
Speaker 2: supremacists marched on the campus of the University of Virginia
Speaker 2: and attack students and community members. That night. As that
Speaker 2: was happening, I was locked in a church across the street.
Speaker 2: I was doing an interview with Cornell West for Sir
Speaker 2: Joerna's magazine and about resisting fascism or the imperative to
Speaker 2: do so. When someone rushed in and said, the Klan
Speaker 2: is outside with torches, stay here, and we had to
Speaker 2: eventually evacuate the building. But that was just a precursor
Speaker 2: to what happened the next day, which was brawls in
Speaker 2: the streets and a state of emergency being declared, and
Speaker 2: then the white supremacists were pretty much abolished. They got
Speaker 2: kicked out, they had to cancel their event, and we
Speaker 2: thought we had won because they were being turned away
Speaker 2: and it was our community. My kids went to that
Speaker 2: library where they were doing all these terrible things, and
Speaker 2: so it felt like an act of love and an
Speaker 2: act of community defense to be out in the streets
Speaker 2: that day. That was my position. And as we were
Speaker 2: walking and preparing to turn into one of the narrow
Speaker 2: streets on the downtown mall, that was when the white
Speaker 2: supremacist drove his car through and hit all of the
Speaker 2: counter protesters. I was standing there at the intersection when
Speaker 2: that happened, and it was utter chaos. And so after
Speaker 2: this event, after trauma and nightmare and loss. I made
Speaker 2: the decision, and in retrospect, a bad one, to go
Speaker 2: to a quilt event that I had been attending for
Speaker 2: the last fifteen years or so. It was out of town,
Speaker 2: and when I arrived at the event, I was always
Speaker 2: the only black person in that space. And in the
Speaker 2: past it wasn't a problem. It wasn't a problem when
Speaker 2: my father passed away, suddenly they made me a quilt.
Speaker 2: They were very supportive and very kind. But after this
Speaker 2: event and my work with anti racists and anti fascists organizing,
Speaker 2: their mood changed. And when I arrived, I was told
Speaker 2: that Charlottesville was not to be discussed. Now. It was
Speaker 2: not to be discussed because they were concerned about my feelings.
Speaker 2: It was that they didn't really feel like being bothered.
Speaker 2: And I had always had these inklings, you know how
Speaker 2: you have that little nudge in the back of your neck, like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, you hear somebody say something sideways, the
Speaker 2: things that we now call microaggressions. That was something that was,
Speaker 2: you know, common, I was used to it ain't no
Speaker 2: thing but a chicken wing. Just brush it off, just
Speaker 2: like everything else. But it really came to a head
Speaker 2: at this time and it helped me remember them saying
Speaker 2: things like, well, I don't know why people complain. If
Speaker 2: you just comply, the cops wouldn't do anything. And these
Speaker 2: were the exact same women who told me that they
Speaker 2: told cops to hurry up and give them the damn ticket.
Speaker 2: So those rules only applied to black people, they never
Speaker 2: applied to them. And so after this event, I attended
Speaker 2: some of the people. Many were very kind. The organizer
Speaker 2: of that event was pretty furious with me for reasons
Speaker 2: I never understood beyond just her racism. And I got
Speaker 2: home and about maybe two or three weeks later, I
Speaker 2: see this envelope in the mail with my name on it.
Speaker 2: And when I open the envelope, inside is a check
Speaker 2: that I have written to pay for the next year's event.
Speaker 2: That check was returned to me. Now, my dumb self,
Speaker 2: I say, oh, maybe the event has been canceled and
Speaker 2: it's just not happening anymore, and that's why my check
Speaker 2: was returned. So, like myself an eternal optimist, I contact
Speaker 2: the one person whose phone number I have and I say, hey,
Speaker 2: do you know if this is still going on? It's
Speaker 2: really strange. My check was returned and the person says
Speaker 2: to me, No, Lisa, I don't think it was canceled,
Speaker 2: and I think it was because you broke the rule.
Speaker 2: The rule was that Charlottesville was not to be discussed
Speaker 2: and you disgusted. Now trust me when I say I
Speaker 2: did not walk into this environment preparing to lecture these
Speaker 2: people about the dangers of anti fascism. I came because
Speaker 2: I wanted to sew some quilt blocks and that was
Speaker 2: what I wanted to work on and did. But that
Speaker 2: showed me a lot. It showed me a lot. And
Speaker 2: it's a beautiful quote that says that which breaks your
Speaker 2: heart can correct your vision. Because when I tell you,
Speaker 2: I was so sad, doctor Joy, I was so sad
Speaker 2: that these people had kicked me out. I was so sad,
Speaker 2: like on top of the trauma of the terror attack,
Speaker 2: now I have this, and so I thought something that
Speaker 2: I loved was taken away from me. And after I
Speaker 2: got finished being sad, then I got embarrassed because it
Speaker 2: made me wonder who did these people think I was
Speaker 2: all this time? Who did they think that I would
Speaker 2: sit idly by while to me, my children's lives are
Speaker 2: in danger from these white supremacists who think they can
Speaker 2: own our community. And so so that was when I
Speaker 2: hit the decision point, and it said, I will never
Speaker 2: again exchange my humanity in order to do what I love.
Speaker 2: And so I created Black Women's Stitch. I started just
Speaker 2: by posting on Instagram in twenty eighteen. I kept posting
Speaker 2: and it just came from there. I wanted it to
Speaker 2: be black from a distance, so that people saw that
Speaker 2: this was what we are, this is what we did,
Speaker 2: and I called it Black Women's Stitch, the sewing group
Speaker 2: where Black Lives Matter. That was what it was for,
Speaker 2: and anyone else could come and participate as they get
Speaker 2: in where you fit in kind of thing, but it
Speaker 2: was definitely meant to center and celebrate the black experience
Speaker 2: in sewing so that we didn't have to be the
Speaker 2: lonely onlies in many of these spaces. So again, that
Speaker 2: was a very long answer to your question, but that's
Speaker 2: how I got here.
Speaker 1: No, thank you for sharing that. I appreciate all of
Speaker 1: that history. I don't even know that I knew that
Speaker 1: there were all those other rallies that summer, right so,
Speaker 1: I think, of course the one that everybody heard about
Speaker 1: was in August, but it sounds like there had been
Speaker 1: a long summer of really antagonizing.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely, And one of the things we kept
Speaker 2: seeing was among white folks in particular, was this idea
Speaker 2: that if we ignore them, they will go away. And
Speaker 2: a lot of it was fighting apathy. And I finally
Speaker 2: got to the point where I said, you know what,
Speaker 2: you don't get to tell me how I resist this.
Speaker 2: You have no skin in the game, literally and figuratively.
Speaker 2: You don't get to tell me to do nothing, because
Speaker 2: nothing is what you are doing. And so it definitely
Speaker 2: means that Black Women's Stitch started in a place of
Speaker 2: resistance and then eventually became a place of respite because
Speaker 2: we do more than survive.
Speaker 1: So tell me about your earliest memories sewing. Do you
Speaker 1: remember when the first time you picked up a thread
Speaker 1: and needle? Was it something that came easy to you.
Speaker 2: It's so funny you say that, because my mother laughs
Speaker 2: at me to this day. My mother sewed, my grandmother sewed,
Speaker 2: my grandmother's grandmother sewed. All of us are from Florida.
Speaker 2: I have some cousins that are very into genealogy and
Speaker 2: they found all this information and my mother would sew
Speaker 2: are closed during the summertime. She made doll clothes. She
Speaker 2: made everything, and I wanted nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2: I remember sewing being a kid and being stuck with
Speaker 2: pins and having to stand still, and it's like my
Speaker 2: mother was also a really wonderful baker, and yet my
Speaker 2: sister loved nothing more than Public's cupcakes. That was me
Speaker 2: as well. It was, yes, you can sew, but I
Speaker 2: really want the guest jeans Jordash jeans from bird Eyes
Speaker 2: or from Jordan Marsh or wherever. I was not all
Speaker 2: interested in it, even though my mother was and still
Speaker 2: is if she feels like being bothered. Is a very
Speaker 2: talented seist and very talented with the sewing machine. I
Speaker 2: chose sewing when I was in graduate school because I
Speaker 2: needed something I could finish when I was working on
Speaker 2: my dissertation. I think I am a slow writer, and
Speaker 2: so it felt like, Okay, I got the course work done,
Speaker 2: I'm doing my tag, but this dissertation is taken an eternity,
Speaker 2: and it felt good to start with a piece of
Speaker 2: fabric and then end up with a duvet cover. And
Speaker 2: so I find sewing in that way to be powerfully transformative,
Speaker 2: and it really puts the means of creation in the
Speaker 2: hands of people. And so that goes to my overall
Speaker 2: idea about seeing sewing as a liberatory action that you
Speaker 2: can with Niela and thread radically transform something into something
Speaker 2: else and make it what you want. And I find
Speaker 2: that really powerful.
Speaker 1: I love that so first. I love that she started
Speaker 1: in grad school and what a powerful example of being
Speaker 1: able to do something else during probably a very stressful time, right.
Speaker 1: And so this idea that like, Okay, this dissertation is
Speaker 1: stressing me out, but I can finish this thing, right,
Speaker 1: like I can start with fabric and create a duvet.
Speaker 1: I think that that's beautiful. And we know that there's
Speaker 1: so much research now. You may not have known this
Speaker 1: at the time, but there's so much research that talks
Speaker 1: about like doing things with your hand and being able
Speaker 1: to have many projects like this, and how this is
Speaker 1: actually good for our mental health.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I absolutely believe it to be true. And one
Speaker 2: of my favorite historians she was at Princeton. Her name
Speaker 2: is Nell Irvin Painter. She has done a ton of books,
Speaker 2: including some excellent research on so journal truth and right
Speaker 2: now she's writing a book on knitting. But she is
Speaker 2: a huge, big time historian at Princeton, and she would
Speaker 2: go to historical conferences and sit in the audience and knit.
Speaker 2: And no one is expecting someone as big time as
Speaker 2: her to be sitting and knitting, but that's what she did,
Speaker 2: and she's really amazing and very well regarded. But the
Speaker 2: idea that she would bring and could bring a needlecraft
Speaker 2: into a space that is seen as academic, I think
Speaker 2: for me, I always thought that was really powerful and
Speaker 2: just another great thing about her as a historian.
Speaker 1: So, once you finally reclaimed your love and your family's love,
Speaker 1: it sounds like for sewing, what kinds of obstacles have
Speaker 1: you faced in kind of learning how to sew again
Speaker 1: for yourself?
Speaker 2: I think one of the big obstacles has been understanding
Speaker 2: that many of the patterns that we have today, the
Speaker 2: sewing patterns, were not intended for the body that I have.
Speaker 2: In fact, they're not intended for many bodies. I've been
Speaker 2: doing some research and discovered that many of the measurements
Speaker 2: that we have today are based on a study from
Speaker 2: nineteen forty one of fourteen thousand white women. And if
Speaker 2: you look at the stuff and the report that you
Speaker 2: can find at the USDA website, it comes down to
Speaker 2: these very narrow prescriptions because they deliberately excluded measurements from
Speaker 2: non white women. And this is something people have talked
Speaker 2: about in other contexts about why American sizing for women's
Speaker 2: clothing is just so random, and that all that comes
Speaker 2: from having something called a fit model, which is where
Speaker 2: you make one size and you can then scale up
Speaker 2: or down. But they don't really fit anybody very well.
Speaker 2: So one of the obstacles that I've found is learning
Speaker 2: to modify these patterns and to maintain a sense of
Speaker 2: bodily optimism and integrity, because the pattern will have you
Speaker 2: believe that something is wrong with you, when in fact,
Speaker 2: something is wrong with the pattern. And so that was
Speaker 2: one of the obstacles. But after I think I figured
Speaker 2: that out and found the patterns that I liked and
Speaker 2: found the pieces that I liked, then was off to
Speaker 2: the races. It was no turning back. And now I've
Speaker 2: got hundreds upon hundreds of patterns and notebooks and binders
Speaker 2: and notes and everything like that to kind of help
Speaker 2: me get started. So I'm always encouraging everybody to sew.
Speaker 2: I do believe it is something that anyone can do.
Speaker 2: I think you just have to find what's right for
Speaker 2: you and no one has to do it. But I
Speaker 2: think nothing is beyond you. And I'd like to think
Speaker 2: that everything you are wearing right now was made by someone.
Speaker 2: Why not you?
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're gonna have to take us back through this, Lisa,
Speaker 1: So how do we find patterns that we might like?
Speaker 1: So my mom also sold a lot when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, and I could remember us going to the store,
Speaker 1: and like, I think McCall's right, was that the pattern maker?
Speaker 2: That's what? Okay?
Speaker 1: So the call still in business? Like how are people
Speaker 1: finding patterns at this point?
Speaker 2: Listen, the calls is in business. But something you might
Speaker 2: like to know, and I think that your audience might appreciate,
Speaker 2: is that there is a new pattern line that has
Speaker 2: started and it was created by a woman of color
Speaker 2: named Mimi g. They're called No Me Patterns. They are
Speaker 2: more size inclusive and most of their designers are people
Speaker 2: of color, including folks who are Atlanta based soists and designers.
Speaker 2: So you can find work by Aronica B Cole, for example,
Speaker 2: and she's based in Atlanta, The Corny Rainbow, These really bright, fun,
Speaker 2: interesting designs. I think the No Me Patterns started in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. I believe very new, very new, but
Speaker 2: they have really made some powerful contributions to the mainline
Speaker 2: of the pattern industry. In addition, a lot of independent
Speaker 2: people have individually transferred their frustration with the mainstream industry
Speaker 2: by making their own form of patterns. So you can
Speaker 2: get patterns that are meant for larger bodies, that are
Speaker 2: designed in style with things like biometrics in mind, and
Speaker 2: so you can get some really well fitting garments regardless
Speaker 2: of your size. And I think that that is one
Speaker 2: of the things about sewing that I love. I love
Speaker 2: that there is a way to make something do what
Speaker 2: you want and need it to do without having to
Speaker 2: do too much. And so the patterns themselves become a
Speaker 2: good way to translate your own vision for yourself. So,
Speaker 2: just for one quick example, I talked with a wonderful person.
Speaker 2: Her name's Martha McIntosh, and she talks about how she
Speaker 2: started sewing, and she's a plus sized sister, and she
Speaker 2: wanted this Ankara print dress. So she contacted the designer
Speaker 2: and sent in her measurements and the designer says, Okay, sure,
Speaker 2: I can make you this dress, but because of your size,
Speaker 2: it will be an extra three hundred and fifty dollars
Speaker 2: and she said no, thank you, and she took that
Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty dollars and bought a sewing machine
Speaker 2: and has never looked back. And when I tell you,
Speaker 2: the looks that she makes are fire. She sews carnival costumes,
Speaker 2: she sews her travel wardrobe, all of these things. I
Speaker 2: love the way that a sewing machine can turn a
Speaker 2: no into a yes.
Speaker 1: Okay, Liza, now you're getting us all inspired. But I
Speaker 1: am thinking I'm not somebody who is like not. I
Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm quite inclined to be able to
Speaker 1: like look at a pattern and like have it come
Speaker 1: out to be something that's actually wearable. So if people
Speaker 1: are interested in starting to sew, where should we start, Like,
Speaker 1: what do we need to get started?
Speaker 2: I think you should determine what is your learning style.
Speaker 2: Some people learn best from YouTube university, and some of
Speaker 2: the people that I mentioned, like Ironica Cole, for example,
Speaker 2: has a YouTube channel and you can go there and
Speaker 2: you can look and you can learn. People have broken
Speaker 2: down lots of different steps. And so if you're someone
Speaker 2: that likes to have a video and you can pause
Speaker 2: it and do side by side, then that's one way.
Speaker 2: There's also people that are teaching online on social media.
Speaker 2: There's a place called the Black Sewing Network and they
Speaker 2: live on TikTok and they do so alongs every single day,
Speaker 2: and you can go on there even if you're not
Speaker 2: going to get on screen or to join them. You
Speaker 2: can be in the comments and ask questions. You can
Speaker 2: watch them as they work through and make mistakes, and
Speaker 2: so that's another way to think about it. There's also
Speaker 2: local in person ways to meet up and do sewing.
Speaker 2: So if you have a sewing shop or a small
Speaker 2: quilt shop or even a Joeanne Fabrics, sometimes they'll have
Speaker 2: sewing shops inside those stores that offer lessons. In addition,
Speaker 2: places like the four H Club, different City and County
Speaker 2: extension programs, Scrap RVA, or Scrap Lanta in Atlanta, these
Speaker 2: folks might also have different programs. Anyone that's selling sewing
Speaker 2: machines tends to have sewing lessons, so you don't have
Speaker 2: to start alone. You could also find people that do
Speaker 2: one to one sessions online. So I know a lot
Speaker 2: of folks through Black Women's Stitch that are offering someone
Speaker 2: like Nicki Griffins, for example, who is also based in Atlanta.
Speaker 2: You can sign up and do a genes making class,
Speaker 2: bra making class, all of these different things, and they'll
Speaker 2: work with you side to side and help you with
Speaker 2: any questions or concerns you have. So I think there's
Speaker 2: lots of ways to learn. It's just a matter of
Speaker 2: finding what works best for you.
Speaker 1: Okay, more from our conversation after the break. So what
Speaker 1: are some of the basic supplies we need to get started?
Speaker 2: I think the basic supplies is a machine that is reliable,
Speaker 2: a sewing machine that is reliable, and that means what
Speaker 2: you want the sewing machine to do, because the sewing
Speaker 2: machines now can do so many more things than when
Speaker 2: I was a girl. They can cut the threads for you,
Speaker 2: they cannot them for you, they can thread the machine
Speaker 2: for you. It does all of these things so that
Speaker 2: you can get a good feeling of satisfaction. So I
Speaker 2: would say a good sewing machine, a good pair of scissors,
Speaker 2: and a good pair of snips, which are little tiny
Speaker 2: scissors that help you cut little tiny threads off. So
Speaker 2: those are some very basic things just to get started
Speaker 2: and then decide what kind of project you want to make.
Speaker 2: Are you someone who is good with well? Let me
Speaker 2: start with a tote bag just to get myself started.
Speaker 2: Do something simple. It has four seams. A pillowcase is
Speaker 2: another very easy, especially if you make it out of satin.
Speaker 2: We all love and need a satin line pillowcase. You
Speaker 2: can get some satin and make you a pillowcase, and
Speaker 2: that gives you a good feeling of satisfaction and surprising.
Speaker 2: Making underwear is one of the easiest things you can do,
Speaker 2: doctor Joy. It is so easy.
Speaker 1: I'm laughing, Lisa, because you have taken me back to
Speaker 1: my home economics class where our project was to make
Speaker 1: a pair of boxer shorts.
Speaker 2: Wasn't really Oh my god, I had no idea.
Speaker 1: I was like, what a random choice? But now I
Speaker 1: hear you saying that that's a good starter project. So
Speaker 1: that's probably why we did.
Speaker 2: It exactly because it's practical and even if you don't
Speaker 2: wear them as boxers, you can wear them just around
Speaker 2: the house to kick around or whatever. And I think
Speaker 2: it's some kind of really special feeling to put on
Speaker 2: clothes that you have made with your own hands. And
Speaker 2: it reminds me of that Bible verse. I'm gonna forget
Speaker 2: where it's from, but it's something about putting on the
Speaker 2: full armor of God. And sometimes I feel like when
Speaker 2: I am going into these spaces where I am not
Speaker 2: sure how I may or may not be received, I
Speaker 2: always take care to put on something that's gonna make
Speaker 2: me feel good, and typically the clothes that I make.
Speaker 2: Since I usually only wear clothes that I made, it's
Speaker 2: gonna be that and it reminds me as I'm wearing
Speaker 2: it that I can do hard things. It's reminding me
Speaker 2: as I wear it that I have the power of
Speaker 2: transformation in my own hands. And I think that that
Speaker 2: is one of the reasons I find sewing to be
Speaker 2: so empowering and really generative and overall encouraging for how
Speaker 2: one wants to live.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. So what kind of budget should
Speaker 1: we be thinking in term for a sewing machine? Like,
Speaker 1: what's the cheapest sewing machine somebody could kind of get
Speaker 1: started with.
Speaker 2: Well, you could get cheap ones. I know they sell
Speaker 2: them at big box stores. The challenge with some of
Speaker 2: those is that they are just not reliable. I think
Speaker 2: one of the things that frustrates people is, Oh, this
Speaker 2: machine is no good or the tension was off or
Speaker 2: it never worked right, and you don't really have anybody
Speaker 2: to complain about. You can either return it to the
Speaker 2: store and get one just like it, or return it
Speaker 2: to the store and go someplace else. I tend to
Speaker 2: recommend that people do their best to work with a
Speaker 2: local dealer where you can go in person and find
Speaker 2: a machine that you want and somebody who will sit
Speaker 2: down next to you to help you. And if they
Speaker 2: don't do that, they'll have things like owners' classes. So
Speaker 2: I would say you could do it an intro level machine.
Speaker 2: I would say the low level would be about three
Speaker 2: hundred up to five for a very basic starter machine.
Speaker 2: It does not have a lot of bells and whistles,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't really need to until you know what
Speaker 2: you're interested in. I'm so glad you asked about price,
Speaker 2: because I'm never sure how much people think sewing machines cost,
Speaker 2: but a low cost sewing machine is about three hundred
Speaker 2: to five hundred dollars. The machine that I use was
Speaker 2: closer to six thousand dollars, and there are other machines
Speaker 2: that start at ten, ten to fifteen thousand dollars for
Speaker 2: a sewing machine. I do not recommend that anybody in
Speaker 2: the world get that for their first sewing machine unless
Speaker 2: you decide you hate it and then you want to
Speaker 2: give it to me at a discount, I'll totally buy
Speaker 2: it off you, and you can totally do it for
Speaker 2: a few hundred dollars and buying good needles and those
Speaker 2: kinds of things. And so for people looking to start
Speaker 2: something just to see if they would like it, I
Speaker 2: would say about three to five hundred to give yourself
Speaker 2: a good start. Remember getting high quality thread because different
Speaker 2: machines respond differently to different threads, high quality needles, all
Speaker 2: of these things are things that are easy to acquire
Speaker 2: and easy to maintain. And think of it as an investment. Yes,
Speaker 2: you might be spending more than you anticipated, but what
Speaker 2: you're going to be getting if it continues to be
Speaker 2: reliable for you, is years and years of really good
Speaker 2: use from that. And so even as you grow and
Speaker 2: maybe add to your collection of machines, you might say, okay,
Speaker 2: well I want to go up and get one that
Speaker 2: has a few more features, or something that does this
Speaker 2: a little more easily, or I want to add embroidery
Speaker 2: or whatever, and so you have room to grow, but
Speaker 2: I think you can get a very good starter machine
Speaker 2: for between three and five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: Got it. So something else I think that makes people
Speaker 1: a little hesitant to take up sewing is that it
Speaker 1: feels like it's a math heavy kind of a hobby
Speaker 1: and it feels very technical. So tell me how much
Speaker 1: math and calculation is actually involved with sewing?
Speaker 2: For me, none, Praise God, because if this was a
Speaker 2: math heavy hobby, I would not be doing it. There
Speaker 2: are some things just knowing about fractions. About something called
Speaker 2: a seam allowance. That's where when you sew a stitch down,
Speaker 2: to the left of that stitch will be your garment.
Speaker 2: To the right of that stitch will be the allowance
Speaker 2: that little tiny strip of fabric on the other side
Speaker 2: of where your clothes are. That is the only thing
Speaker 2: you need to be mindful of is your seam allowance
Speaker 2: one quarter inch, which is what you use for quilting.
Speaker 2: Is it three ace inch, which is what you use
Speaker 2: in a lot of European and independent patterns, or is
Speaker 2: it five eighths inch, which is what you use when
Speaker 2: you're doing a standard McCall's type patterns. Almost all of
Speaker 2: the McCalls patterns, buttery patterns, Vogue patterns, and Simplicity patterns
Speaker 2: all use a five ace inch seam allowance, and so
Speaker 2: in terms of math, that's pretty much the basics for
Speaker 2: anyone who's getting started. Once you go into adjustments, that
Speaker 2: math is more simple. So if I say, well, my
Speaker 2: waist is this size, but this pattern is that size,
Speaker 2: the difference between my waist and the pattern waste is
Speaker 2: four inches, let me add four inches two inches in
Speaker 2: the front and two inches in the back, and then
Speaker 2: it'll fit me. So all the math I've ever done
Speaker 2: has been quite simple. It is not fortunately a math
Speaker 2: heavy type thing. It is something that once you read
Speaker 2: the directions and understand what you're being asked to do.
Speaker 2: And I have a friend who recommends Naomi P. Johnson says,
Speaker 2: read the directions three times. I read them one good time,
Speaker 2: and then I go back and look at it again
Speaker 2: and again, and then I make mistakes, and then I
Speaker 2: go back and look at the directions again. But you
Speaker 2: really can do it with a pretty much an ABC.
Speaker 2: And then, of course, in some ways mistakes are also
Speaker 2: a gift. Mistakes are part of the learning process, and
Speaker 2: you should never feel bad about it mistakes. If it
Speaker 2: doesn't work out, then you know what to do differently
Speaker 2: for next time. So it's absolutely a pretty forgiving hobby.
Speaker 2: If you make a mistake, you can just unsow it.
Speaker 2: It's not like it's sewn in stone or something like that.
Speaker 2: You can totally correct it, and then you can make
Speaker 2: something and then decide, oh, I like this element, but
Speaker 2: not that element, and then you can change it.
Speaker 1: M mm hmm. So a huge part of you know,
Speaker 1: a new year is goal setting and like trying new things.
Speaker 1: What kinds of things should a beginning sow or have
Speaker 1: to look forward to in terms of milestone, so like
Speaker 1: in a month, in six months and a year, like
Speaker 1: what kinds of bitchmarks might they be able to use
Speaker 1: for themselves.
Speaker 2: I really like that idea of documenting one sewing journey,
Speaker 2: and so some of the things that I thought about
Speaker 2: in my own journey was the first thing you make
Speaker 2: for yourself that you're proud of, the first thing you
Speaker 2: make for somebody else that you're proud of, the first
Speaker 2: thing that you make for your kitchen that you're excited about,
Speaker 2: the first thing that you make for your bedroom that
Speaker 2: you're happy about, the first garment, the first pair of
Speaker 2: pants that you're willing to wear outside of your house,
Speaker 2: the first time that you're able to turn that Gordon
Speaker 2: Gatrell into an actual wearable shirt. That's something to definitely celebrate.
Speaker 2: So there's tons of milestones depending on the sewing you're
Speaker 2: wanting to do. If you want to start with quilting,
Speaker 2: if you want to start with home decorations you're interested in.
Speaker 2: Curtains are expensive, but fabric is a lot less expensive,
Speaker 2: and so if you can figure out how to make curtains,
Speaker 2: you could save yourself a lot of money. It is
Speaker 2: not often the case anymore that sewing will save you
Speaker 2: money to make clothes. I think that between fast fashion
Speaker 2: as well as big box stores, we can get clothes
Speaker 2: for cheaper than I could sit down and make them.
Speaker 2: But what you cannot buy in the store are things
Speaker 2: that are so unique to you, things that when I choose,
Speaker 2: I might buy a pattern and my friend buys the
Speaker 2: exact same pattern and we both make it. It looks
Speaker 2: totally different because we've chosen different fabrics, Our bodies are different,
Speaker 2: our styling is different, and so there really is a
Speaker 2: great benefit to making pieces that uniquely reflect what your
Speaker 2: creative process is and speak to your style. And I
Speaker 2: think that that is something that as one goes through
Speaker 2: the sewing journey. After you've gone through the pillowcases and
Speaker 2: the baby bibs and the tote bags and the pull
Speaker 2: on boxer shorts, and you know, all these different things,
Speaker 2: you grow into a belief in your own competency. And
Speaker 2: so trying different materials, sewing with a woven fabric versus
Speaker 2: a knit fabric, so on, with something that's stretchy versus
Speaker 2: something that's like denim. All of these are ways that
Speaker 2: you can grow and share your sewing story as you're
Speaker 2: moving through the process. And I think that is so
Speaker 2: wise to keep track of your milestones because it is,
Speaker 2: in deed, a journey, and I think people progress through
Speaker 2: this faster than they even imagine, especially if they get
Speaker 2: the bug and they start to really love it. They
Speaker 2: move very quickly from one phase to the next.
Speaker 1: Okay, Lisa, so you are a very busy sister, like
Speaker 1: many of our community members, right, So when are you
Speaker 1: making time for sewing? And like what could that look
Speaker 1: like for other people? Like when are they adding this
Speaker 1: into their schedule?
Speaker 2: So there's lots of different ways to go about it.
Speaker 2: I find that for me, I'm a good nighttime person.
Speaker 2: I find it relaxing. I find it like after a
Speaker 2: long day, like of work, I'll come home and have
Speaker 2: dinner and then say, like, rather than like sit in
Speaker 2: front of the TV or watch Netflix, I will go
Speaker 2: into the sewing room or I'll put the Netflix on
Speaker 2: in the sewing room and I'll be watching and listening
Speaker 2: and deciding what I want to sew next. There's also
Speaker 2: a sister, Brittany J. Jones, who's also based in Atlanta. Oh,
Speaker 2: y'all in Atlanta, now that I think of it, she
Speaker 2: has this pro call thirty minutes to sew, and she
Speaker 2: just does it, even in the middle of a busy workday.
Speaker 2: She says, you know what, I got thirty minutes. She
Speaker 2: will set a timer and put that timer next to
Speaker 2: the sewing machine and will do nothing but sewing tasks
Speaker 2: for those thirty minutes. And she's able to get a
Speaker 2: lot made. And so I think about if you can
Speaker 2: incorporate it into your daily life and schedule, that's gonna
Speaker 2: look different for everybody. I have a friend who is
Speaker 2: a planner, and she loves to plan, and so she'll
Speaker 2: look at her weekly planner and say, Okay, on Monday,
Speaker 2: I will pick out the pattern. On Tuesday, I will
Speaker 2: cut it out on Wednesday, I will lay out my fabric.
Speaker 2: On Thursday, I will So it's really about choosing what
Speaker 2: works best for your schedule. And now that my kids
Speaker 2: are grown and pretty much out of the house, I
Speaker 2: don't need to snatch nighttime hours anymore. But I got
Speaker 2: so accustomed to that. Okay, the kids are asleep, now,
Speaker 2: it's my time, and so that time translated into sewing
Speaker 2: time since they're grown now. So I think whatever works
Speaker 2: organically for your lifestyle, if it means, hey, I'm on
Speaker 2: my lunch break at work, I'm going to pick out
Speaker 2: a few patterns on the internet, I'm going to buy
Speaker 2: some fabric or whatever. So that's how I tend to
Speaker 2: kind of incorporate it. I do try to carve out
Speaker 2: distinct time and try to protect that time, and that
Speaker 2: if I can, I'll incorporate it while I'm also doing
Speaker 2: other things.
Speaker 1: Got it, Okay, So squeezing it in and making it time.
Speaker 1: Like you said, we have thirty minutes to watch a
Speaker 1: Netflix show, we could be doing that at the same
Speaker 1: time as we're.
Speaker 2: Sewing at the same time. Absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So I imagine
Speaker 1: that when people first start out sewing, they may run
Speaker 1: into some hiccups, get a little frustrated. How do we
Speaker 1: know when it's time to step away from the sewing
Speaker 1: and put the needles down.
Speaker 2: My rule is, and I learned this from somebody else,
Speaker 2: is when I make three mistakes the row. If I'm
Speaker 2: working on something and it's the same project and I've
Speaker 2: sown it backwards, I'm like, Okay, that's just a mistake.
Speaker 2: I'm gona check that out. And then I sew it
Speaker 2: sideways and it's like, okay, I'm gonna take it out,
Speaker 2: and then I sew it crossway. If I make a
Speaker 2: mistake three times, that shows that my fatigue is taken
Speaker 2: over for me. And this was something that's happened. Over time,
Speaker 2: you just get better and so you make fewer mistakes,
Speaker 2: and then it lets you sew for longer periods of time.
Speaker 2: But you have to give yourself the chance and the
Speaker 2: invitation even to make mistakes. And so one of the
Speaker 2: things that we'll do and sewing, it's called making a
Speaker 2: muslin m us l i n and muslin is a
Speaker 2: type of cheap cotton fabric, and that word is used
Speaker 2: to describe making a sample garment. So if you have
Speaker 2: fabric that you love and it's really precious, and you
Speaker 2: don't want to cut that up. To see how it's
Speaker 2: gonna work. You'll get some muslin fabric, our sample fabric
Speaker 2: and make a sample garment. That's a great opportunity to
Speaker 2: test out how it's going to go. And you make
Speaker 2: all your mistakes on that, and then when you get
Speaker 2: your real fabric you can have smooth sailing. But I
Speaker 2: think if people could be a little kinder to themselves
Speaker 2: and just accept mistakes as part of the learning process,
Speaker 2: then people would be less afraid, I think, to take
Speaker 2: it up and to run with it.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm hearing all these beautiful mental health
Speaker 1: analogies in the way you are talking about sewing, right,
Speaker 1: So you're basically talking about self compassion, right, being able
Speaker 1: to forgive ourselves, and this idea that if you make
Speaker 1: a mistake, you just unsow it right, so that few
Speaker 1: things are permanent. We can make mistakes and still recover.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yes, absolutely, And I think that's because some people
Speaker 2: say sewing is my therapy, and I say, oh no, man,
Speaker 2: therapy is my therapy. Sewing is therapeutic. It is something
Speaker 2: for me that has brought me peace. It feels like
Speaker 2: I'm closer to my ancestor. It feels like I'm stepping
Speaker 2: into a story that was already sewn and written for me,
Speaker 2: and all I had to do was recognize that it
Speaker 2: was there. It helped me to heal after some really
Speaker 2: painful losses, and it became as I started to do
Speaker 2: it in Sisterhood with Black Women, it became such a
Speaker 2: powerful reminder of that which I had already grown up with.
Speaker 2: Like my mother and her cousins and her mother would
Speaker 2: get together at our house and the sewing machines would
Speaker 2: be all set up, and the TV would be on
Speaker 2: and the kids running around and somehow the radio was
Speaker 2: also on, and everybody's cackling and laughing and key keying
Speaker 2: and girl, come over here, stand still, you know. Like
Speaker 2: that was the kind of loving environment, very loving environment
Speaker 2: in which I was raised, and sewing was a key
Speaker 2: part of that. So in creating Black Women's Stitch, it
Speaker 2: felt like I was coming home, and in coming home,
Speaker 2: I was able to create a space for other sisters
Speaker 2: to join me, And that has been one of the
Speaker 2: ways that sisterhood heals shows up for me in the
Speaker 2: work that I'm doing.
Speaker 1: I love that thank you for that leaf.
Speaker 2: So what are some of the things you.
Speaker 1: Would it like caution beginning sewers again about or if
Speaker 1: there are some things that you wish you would have
Speaker 1: known when you picked sewing back up, what kinds of
Speaker 1: things would those be.
Speaker 2: I think the first thing I would say is don't
Speaker 2: be afraid. Don't be afraid. There is nothing you can
Speaker 2: do with a sewing machine that is going to cause dangerous,
Speaker 2: powerful harm to other people. I think that something like,
Speaker 2: oh I'm afraid of this sewing. I'm a Frian'm like, well,
Speaker 2: you drive a car. A car is very dangerous, and
Speaker 2: people get into a car and drive and don't even
Speaker 2: think about it. There is nothing that you can do
Speaker 2: short of sewing your finger, which I have done two times.
Speaker 2: And see I said too, because after over twenty years
Speaker 2: of I have only sowed my finger twice. Because you
Speaker 2: do it once and that's enough. It forces you to
Speaker 2: pay attention after that. And so I think one of
Speaker 2: the things I would caution people to do is to
Speaker 2: step into it with a spirit of curiosity, don't feel
Speaker 2: like you have to do it right, and don't compare
Speaker 2: yourself to anybody else. You're not trying to make the
Speaker 2: pattern look exactly like the picture on the envelope, because
Speaker 2: your picture is not on the envelope. So I would
Speaker 2: encourage people to be kind with themselves and to begin
Speaker 2: with something that they think they want to do. A
Speaker 2: lot of sewing teachers will say, here's a tote bag
Speaker 2: because this is the easiest thing to show somebody, or
Speaker 2: a pillowcase because it's the easiest thing to show someone.
Speaker 2: But I've an own people who have said, I like
Speaker 2: this dress, it's a rap dress, and I want to
Speaker 2: make it. And they took the time and they made it,
Speaker 2: and they were satisfied with the outcome. It was something
Speaker 2: that they could wear, and while they would get better
Speaker 2: over time, they're satisfaction was the perfection. Being satisfied and
Speaker 2: happy and proud of what you've done. It doesn't matter
Speaker 2: what anybody else thinks. And so I would caution people
Speaker 2: to think about what it is they want to make,
Speaker 2: and to follow that curiosity and be kind to themselves
Speaker 2: along the way, and then you'll be more into it.
Speaker 1: So you talked about this a little bit, but you
Speaker 1: are also the host of an amazing podcast, Stitch Please,
Speaker 1: which is such a great name. I love that as
Speaker 1: a podcast name, tell me a little bit more about
Speaker 1: the podcast and what kinds of topics you discussed.
Speaker 2: So, the Stitch Please Podcast is a weekly audio show
Speaker 2: where we center black women, girls and fems in sewing.
Speaker 2: And we've had over two hundred episodes, and through the
Speaker 2: course of that, I've talked to so as who just
Speaker 2: started a year ago. I've talked to people who went
Speaker 2: to fashion design school, people who are currently in design school.
Speaker 2: I've talked to museum curators, artists, quilters, business owners, hobbyists,
Speaker 2: people that are involved in all different aspects of sewing,
Speaker 2: authors of books, people that are interested in sustainability. Almost
Speaker 2: anything you can think of, we've been able to talk
Speaker 2: about through the lens of sewing. And it has been
Speaker 2: really a powerful journey because I never expected it to
Speaker 2: grow in the way that it did. And I have
Speaker 2: spoken to a few people and they're like, well, do
Speaker 2: you think you might be exhausting the topic by now,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't think so. I'm not talking
Speaker 2: to every black person in the world yet, So I
Speaker 2: think I got a little ways to go yet. Because
Speaker 2: what's been so surprising is that regardless of the person's position,
Speaker 2: whether they are a museum curator, or a professional artist,
Speaker 2: or a quilt teacher or someone who designs patterns. All
Speaker 2: of them have a really beautiful story of creativity that
Speaker 2: we can all learn from. And I see my task
Speaker 2: as building that archive of information to be a repository
Speaker 2: to come back and to get affirmation and to get
Speaker 2: a sense of wonder, like, Oh, this person has done this,
Speaker 2: I can do it too. One of my recent episodes
Speaker 2: toward the end of twenty twenty three was with a
Speaker 2: student that I had spoken with when she started fashion school.
Speaker 2: I interviewed her she was a freshman, a first year
Speaker 2: student in fashion school, and then when I interviewed her
Speaker 2: most recently, she was between being on New York Fashion
Speaker 2: Week where she had some pieces in New York Fashion Week,
Speaker 2: and in the following week she was going to Paris
Speaker 2: for Paris Fashion Week. So the idea of being able
Speaker 2: to kind of follow along with someone's journey like that
Speaker 2: to ask her what is fashion school like, what can
Speaker 2: someone expect? What are some of the kind of things
Speaker 2: that you do? What does it mean to major in apparel?
Speaker 2: These are the kind of things that I wouldn't know
Speaker 2: because I've never been to fashion of design school, but
Speaker 2: the fact that I can bring that forward to other people,
Speaker 2: and I'm just so grateful to both I think be
Speaker 2: a possibility model and to speak with possibility models for
Speaker 2: nearly every single episode, And that's what I think. I
Speaker 2: want us to remember that we are limitless. Like Beyonce says,
Speaker 2: that we live and are situated in an abundant universe,
Speaker 2: and we participate in that actively and robustly, and that
Speaker 2: we can believe in ourselves and each other that we
Speaker 2: are enough, that we are a universe. And that's something
Speaker 2: that the show has shown me over time.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that so beautiful. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for that, Lisa. So, in addition to all the other
Speaker 1: things you're doing, you're also working on a nonfiction book
Speaker 1: called Black Women's Stitch Liberation. Can you give us a
Speaker 1: little bit of a sneak peek of the book in
Speaker 1: what you're hoping for the book to do?
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yes, I'm really excited about it. And what
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do is to talk about the ways
Speaker 2: that sewing is an act and practice of liberation. I
Speaker 2: think that we've thought in really powerful ways about black
Speaker 2: women and rest black women and sisterhood black women and community,
Speaker 2: And what I see in sewing is a combination in
Speaker 2: some ways of all of that. It is a way
Speaker 2: that by talking with individual people, I'll be going back
Speaker 2: through some episodes of the podcast and revealing how black
Speaker 2: women stitch things like justice, how questions of liberation show
Speaker 2: up in something like size inclusion, how black women in
Speaker 2: terms of sustainability, how we've been able to honor our ancestors.
Speaker 2: All of these things are practices that we're able to
Speaker 2: do with a needle and thread. And so the subtitle
Speaker 2: of the book is when freedom is fed with needle
Speaker 2: and thread, and that freedom takes the form of not
Speaker 2: just political and cultural freedom, but also personal the idea
Speaker 2: to stitch what you need. When somebody says no, you can't,
Speaker 2: you and your sewing machine can say yes, I can.
Speaker 2: And I find that such a powerful thing, particularly in
Speaker 2: the society in which we live that is bombarding Black
Speaker 2: women with all manner of misagnir and negative messaging about
Speaker 2: our capacity. And so it feels like a reminder and
Speaker 2: an invitation to step into our wholeness and that this
Speaker 2: is just one way to do it.
Speaker 1: So do we have a date when we can expect
Speaker 1: to get our hands on it.
Speaker 2: We do not not yet, so we'll just have the
Speaker 2: state tuned. No, ma'am exactly, it's listen. We all all
Speaker 2: be surprised.
Speaker 1: So I feel like you have already given us lots
Speaker 1: of great resources. It sounds like there's a TikTok channel
Speaker 1: that you recommend. What other resources might you suggest for
Speaker 1: somebody who's interested in learning more about sewing or participating
Speaker 1: in some of these classes.
Speaker 2: I think I would say to just look to your
Speaker 2: local area. If you are a person that learns best
Speaker 2: in person, see if you can find some of these
Speaker 2: groups that I mentioned. See if there is a sewing
Speaker 2: machine shop near you that you feel comfortable going to
Speaker 2: and working with. Find other influencers that might be in
Speaker 2: your area. People are often doing like meetups. There's a
Speaker 2: group called Atlanta Sewing Style, for example, and they get
Speaker 2: together and do like photo shoots and sewing stuff. And
Speaker 2: there's similar arrangements around the country. And if you don't
Speaker 2: see what you need, it is okay to build it,
Speaker 2: and you don't have to do it alone. I know
Speaker 2: folks in Dallas, in Houston, in Atlanta, in Chicago, all
Speaker 2: these places where people are getting together and coming together
Speaker 2: to build too what they need, so that's another opportunity,
Speaker 2: and also again reaching out to folks like on YouTube.
Speaker 2: You never know, like if someone has a YouTube channel,
Speaker 2: they'll be willing to come and say, Hey, I have
Speaker 2: a group of people together. Would you come and speak
Speaker 2: to our group or would you offer some advice about
Speaker 2: how we can build? Those are other things too that
Speaker 2: people can do to connect. So that's something that I
Speaker 2: was doing before I decided to just finally build what
Speaker 2: I needed. And I also encourage and invite us. And
Speaker 2: it's so tough, right, doctor Joy, because we're already so busy,
Speaker 2: We already have so much going on, Like why do
Speaker 2: I have to make everything? I'm already trying to figure
Speaker 2: out how to navigate work, I'm trying to figure out
Speaker 2: navigating home, I'm working in the community and love, et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Why do I have to do this? And
Speaker 2: I was in that position for quite some time, but
Speaker 2: for me it became urgent. And it doesn't necessarily need
Speaker 2: to be urgent, but for me, it became urgent, and
Speaker 2: that is why I ended up building what I have
Speaker 2: done and hope to continue to grow and move it
Speaker 2: in a positive and very slowly. You know, I've not
Speaker 2: thought about scale yet because it's just so challenging, But
Speaker 2: I think that we can care well for ourselves, and
Speaker 2: in caring well for ourselves, we also care well for others.
Speaker 2: And so just remember that you're worth it, that we
Speaker 2: are worth it, and that we are absolutely able to
Speaker 2: find what we need, get the resources, get advice, and
Speaker 2: move forward from there.
Speaker 1: So where can people stay connected with you? Lisa? What
Speaker 1: is your website? As well as any social media handles
Speaker 1: you'd like to share.
Speaker 2: You can find me. I'm Black Women's Stitch everywhere, black
Speaker 2: Womenstitch dot org, which is our website, Black Women's Stitch
Speaker 2: on Twitter, Black Women's Stitch on TikTok, and I'm most
Speaker 2: active on Instagram at Black Women's Stitch. And the stitch
Speaker 2: Plase podcast is available on all podcast platforms. If you
Speaker 2: look somewhere and you can't find it, please tell me.
Speaker 2: I'd love to know where that was, but.
Speaker 1: It should be everywhere. We will be sure to include
Speaker 1: all of that in the show notes. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for spending some time with us today, Lisa. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor Joy, and I want to thank you
Speaker 2: just not only for this conversation, but I want to
Speaker 2: thank you for all the work that you've done in
Speaker 2: these beautiful conversations, in the community that you've created, in
Speaker 2: the booklists that you do, and in your own book,
Speaker 2: Sisterhood Heels. I can tell you I listen to the
Speaker 2: audio book, which makes it feel like you're talking only
Speaker 2: to me and me alone, and I really appreciate that
Speaker 2: private narration session. It really feels like you are It's like,
Speaker 2: just like you and Michelle Obama, you're only reading the
Speaker 2: book to me, and I appreciate spending that quality time
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I appreciate you, Lisa.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Lisa was able to join us for
Speaker 1: this conversation. To learn more about her and the work
Speaker 1: she's doing, be sure to visit the show notes at
Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash Session three four zero,
Speaker 1: and don't forget to text two of your girls right
Speaker 1: now and tell them to check out the episode. If
Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out
Speaker 1: our therapist directory at the Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com
Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you're looking for a support system
Speaker 1: to aid you in your New Year journey. Join us
Speaker 1: over in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of
Speaker 1: the Internet where we celebrate support and practice vulnerability. Every
Speaker 1: week this January, we're setting the foundation to turn our
Speaker 1: resolutions into realities. Join us at Community dot Therapy for
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot Com. This episode was produced by Frieda. Lucas,
Speaker 1: Elis Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care.
Speaker 2: What's