Speaker 1: On the summit of the citadel. A part of Pelops's
Speaker 1: palace faces south. Its farthest side rises to mountainous height,
Speaker 1: and overlooks the city, having beneath its menaced the people
Speaker 1: insolent to their kings. Here gleams the great hall that
Speaker 1: could contain a multitude, whose gilded architrave's columns glorious with
Speaker 1: varied hues uphold. Behind this general hall, which nations throng,
Speaker 1: the gorgeous palace stretches out over many a space and deep.
Speaker 1: Withdrawn there lies a secret spot, containing, in a deep valley,
Speaker 1: an ancient grove, the kingdom's innermost retreat. Here no tree
Speaker 1: ever affords cheerful shade, or is prune by any knife.
Speaker 2: But the ye tree and.
Speaker 1: The cypress and woods of gloomy ilex trees wave obscure,
Speaker 1: above which, towering high, an oak looks down and overtops
Speaker 1: the grove. From this spot, the sons of Tantalus are
Speaker 1: wont to enter on their reign. Here to seek aid
Speaker 1: midst calamity and doubt. Here hang their votive gifts, resounding
Speaker 1: trumpets and broken chariots, spoils of the mertoan sea, and
Speaker 1: wheels overcome by treacherous axel trees hang there and memorials.
Speaker 2: Of the races.
Speaker 1: Every crime in this place is Pelops's Phrygian cap hung here,
Speaker 1: spoils of the enemy and the embroidered robe token of
Speaker 1: triumph over barbaric foes.
Speaker 2: Oh hi, hello there.
Speaker 1: This is let's talk about myths, baby, and I am
Speaker 1: your host live here, with the final episode covering the
Speaker 1: very Roman version of one of the darkest and most
Speaker 1: horrifying stories from Greek myth, the murderous and cannibalistic revenge
Speaker 1: plot forced cannibalistic, i should say, revenge plot of Atreus,
Speaker 1: King of Mycenie, which seems like as good a time
Speaker 1: as any to remind you of today's very specific trigger warnings,
Speaker 1: which is basically that there are going to be some
Speaker 1: kids killed and eaten and it will be graphic graphic.
Speaker 1: This is Seneca writing Greek myth and spooky season. After all,
Speaker 1: it is really very horrific and absolutely disgusting. I love it,
Speaker 1: but well maybe you won't, so take care. Let's resituate ourselves,
Speaker 1: shall we before we close this fucked up chapter. In
Speaker 1: the Royal House of myceni a house that is not
Speaker 1: finished with its familial horror and violence. It's just going
Speaker 1: to move on to another generation once this one is sordid.
Speaker 1: It began with Tantalus, a king of the East and
Speaker 1: a child of Zeus. He got haughty, cubristicingly, on a whim,
Speaker 1: decided he'd invite the gods to a feast at his
Speaker 1: home and feed them a special dish of his son Pelops. This,
Speaker 1: as you well know, was the last time the gods
Speaker 1: ever dined at immortals home. They restored Pelops, giving him
Speaker 1: a new life, and he went on to do a
Speaker 1: couple other little murders, as one does, before giving his
Speaker 1: name to the Peloponnese and taking hold of the royal
Speaker 1: house of Myceni. He then had two sons, Atreus and Thiistes.
Speaker 1: They fought for the kingdom, brother against brother, not in
Speaker 1: hand to hand combat, but well. Thiistes seduced Atrius's wife,
Speaker 1: stole her away from him, and used her to take
Speaker 1: the throne from his brother. Atrius eventually got it back
Speaker 1: and he banished Thiestes to a life of exile until
Speaker 1: well right now, Thiistes has returned with his two sons,
Speaker 1: and he believes that not only has his brother forgiven him,
Speaker 1: but he's offering him half of the kingdom. Thiistes doesn't
Speaker 1: want it. He just wants to be welcomed back home,
Speaker 1: but Atreus insists. Seneca's Thistes began with a Fury on
Speaker 1: the stay, conversing with the ghost of Tantalus, brought from
Speaker 1: his eternal punishment in the underworld to help and watch
Speaker 1: as his grandsons destroy each other. The fury Maghera had
Speaker 1: a grand time plotting what would happen in the house,
Speaker 1: imagining all the worst crimes, crimes that she would cackle
Speaker 1: with joy to witness before taking on her role as
Speaker 1: one of the areunaways. The furies goddesses of vengeance, but
Speaker 1: they are not just goddesses of any old vengeance. They
Speaker 1: play a very very specific role in the punishment of crimes.
Speaker 1: They punish people who commit crimes against family members. In
Speaker 1: the myth itself, Atreus would enact his revenge against Thyestes
Speaker 1: regardless of whether there was a Fury there cheering him
Speaker 1: on from the sidelines, though he never sees her.
Speaker 2: But the way Seneca's.
Speaker 1: Story is told, the Furies feels vital to the entire plot.
Speaker 1: Seneca seems to theorize on what would make Atreus this?
Speaker 1: Does anyone really come up with a plot so horrific.
Speaker 2: All on their own?
Speaker 1: Can anyone truly imagine doing something that horrible just because
Speaker 1: they're angry at their brother? Or does it take a
Speaker 1: Fury herself to set it all in motion? They began
Speaker 1: the play together, not just laying out the horror that
Speaker 1: was to come, but fighting over it. The ghost of
Speaker 1: Tantalus doesn't want to destroy his family line, he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to inflict more horror upon them. But the Fury, cause,
Speaker 1: the Fury makes it all so tempting. She makes him
Speaker 1: want it, or makes it just impossible for him to
Speaker 1: resist it. And yet neither of them do anything explicit
Speaker 1: that suggests that they're the reason why Atreus is going
Speaker 1: to do what he's going to do. The Fury doesn't
Speaker 1: reappear in the play. She only interacts with the ghost
Speaker 1: of Tantalus, and frankly, that just adds to both of
Speaker 1: their impact. It does, however, mean that I don't get
Speaker 1: the chance to quote from her again. But I'm not
Speaker 1: ready for her to be gone. Well, let's remember her
Speaker 1: last lines to the ghost of Tantalus. The last moments
Speaker 1: she has to call for the violence of Atreus, for
Speaker 1: the destruction of Thiestes, for the furtherance of the curse
Speaker 1: on the royal house of Myceni, because she makes it count.
Speaker 1: This very rage of yours distributes throughout your house, so
Speaker 1: even as you may, they be driven on raging to
Speaker 1: quench their thirst, each in the other's blood. Your house
Speaker 1: feels your approach, and it has shrunk in utter horror
Speaker 1: from your accursed touch. Enough, more than enough, go you
Speaker 1: to the infernal caves and well known streams. Now is
Speaker 1: the grieving earth, weary of your presence.
Speaker 2: Presence. This is episode two thirty four.
Speaker 1: Children make for a very impious meal. Seneca's Thyestes, Part three.
Speaker 1: Such things are past belief Atreus. There, the fierce and savage,
Speaker 1: reckless of soul, and cruel at sight of his brother,
Speaker 1: stood as one amazed. There is no power stronger than
Speaker 1: true love. Angry strife between strangers does endure, But whom
Speaker 1: true love has bound, it will bind forever. When wreath
Speaker 1: by great causes roused, has burnt friendships, bonds, and sounded
Speaker 1: alarms of war, when fleet squadrons with ringing bridles come,
Speaker 1: when the brandished sword gleams now here now there which
Speaker 1: the mad god of war, thirsting for fresh flowing blood, wields.
Speaker 2: With the rain of blows.
Speaker 1: Then will love stay the wheel and lead men, even
Speaker 1: against their will, to the clasped hands of peace. The
Speaker 1: chorus has fallen for Atreus's trap just as well as
Speaker 1: Thiestes has. They're convinced. You can see in this opening
Speaker 1: of their ode that I just read that Atreus has
Speaker 1: forgiven his brother for everything. That one look at his
Speaker 1: sibling was all it took for him to see past
Speaker 1: everything that's happened before.
Speaker 2: They believe Atreus's.
Speaker 1: Words that he has set his anger aside, that he
Speaker 1: has welcomed his brother home with open arms, that all
Speaker 1: is forgiven and they can be a happy family. That
Speaker 1: brother will rule with brother, and the cousins will become
Speaker 1: fast friends, become like brothers themselves. Everything is right in
Speaker 1: my scene.
Speaker 2: All is well.
Speaker 1: The chorus is thrilled, relieved. They can now celebrate this
Speaker 1: return of Thiestes after so long in exile, so long
Speaker 1: with these brothers separated by their hatred. But it's all
Speaker 1: over now, or well it's not. But the chorus and
Speaker 1: Thistes sure think that it is alone on the stage. Now,
Speaker 1: with both brothers and the two boys having gone into
Speaker 1: the palace, the chorus goes on, they wonder what God
Speaker 1: was able to achieve this after such strife. They tell
Speaker 1: the audience that just before Thiestes returned, all of Mycenie
Speaker 1: was preparing for a civil war, that the citizens were preparing,
Speaker 1: that the men preparing to head to battle if they
Speaker 1: had to, even though their weapons were old and rusty
Speaker 1: from so many years of peace. They were mending the palace,
Speaker 1: the walls of the city, just preparing for the worst.
Speaker 1: And yet now the chorus determines that there was no
Speaker 1: need for them to panic. Atreas and Thiistes will not
Speaker 1: be fighting. There will be no violence that they'd all expected.
Speaker 2: All is going to be well.
Speaker 1: There's still going to be peace in Mycene, only now
Speaker 1: real and much better. Piece between brothers, the chorus sings
Speaker 1: of change, how nothing lasts, not the good or the bad.
Speaker 1: Everything is fleeting, and everything strong eventually becomes weak. Quote.
Speaker 1: No one should trust too much in his good fortune,
Speaker 1: no one should give up hope.
Speaker 2: Of better luck.
Speaker 1: Clotho mixes good with bad and stops fortune from standing still.
Speaker 1: Each man's fate rolls around. The chorus makes it very
Speaker 1: clear the fates Clotho among them, don't work for anyone.
Speaker 1: Fortune can turn when.
Speaker 2: You least expect it.
Speaker 1: And of course this isn't just a song for the
Speaker 1: sake of it, it's a cue. When the chorus finishes
Speaker 1: their song, a messenger arrives on the stage. He sets
Speaker 1: the mood immediately, calling out to the sky, asking what
Speaker 1: possible wind could come and just sweep him away, in
Speaker 1: case him in clouds, to quote, tear my eyes away
Speaker 1: from such abomination. This house would make blush even Pelops
Speaker 1: and Tantalus. It's happened, then we know it. The audience
Speaker 1: would know it. But it's the chorus who's yet to
Speaker 1: understand exactly what has happened in the house of Atreus
Speaker 1: to their royal family. And frankly, even we and the
Speaker 1: audience could never have imagined how Seneca will have made
Speaker 1: it happen. The messenger is not all right. He's messy,
Speaker 1: he's unsure where he is, he's shaken up by.
Speaker 2: What he knows.
Speaker 1: He asks the chorus where he is, though surely he knows.
Speaker 1: What he wants to know is how something like this
Speaker 1: could happen. In a place like Mycenie. Maybe somehow he's
Speaker 1: ended up somewhere else, in some barbarian land of the
Speaker 1: east where it's something like this could even have in
Speaker 1: that's right, they've got to throw in just a hint
Speaker 1: of xenophobia for good measure. But no, Messenger, this is
Speaker 1: very much still my scene. This is a very Greek.
Speaker 2: Thing to do.
Speaker 1: The chorus tries to drag the news out of him.
Speaker 1: He's talking in riddles, seeking any means of just not
Speaker 1: being there, not holding on to this news. But finally
Speaker 1: he relents and he tells them what he knows. The
Speaker 1: speech I read before the episode began. That's how the
Speaker 1: Messenger opens his speech to the chorus. He tells them
Speaker 1: about this secret space attached to the palace. It's an
Speaker 1: ancient grove, hidden away, so hidden that it isn't reached
Speaker 1: by the palace servants. No one touches the trees there
Speaker 1: they grow wild. It's there that the line of Tantalus
Speaker 1: takes up their rain over the city. It's there that
Speaker 1: they go for guidance when things look bad. The grove
Speaker 1: holds mementoes of the past, the trumpet that started the
Speaker 1: race between Pelops and Anymaeus hangs from a tree, so
Speaker 1: does the latter's broken chariot, the cause of his death
Speaker 1: and the reason Pelops was able to marry his wife Hyppodamia,
Speaker 1: how they could go on to have their two sons,
Speaker 1: Atreus and Thiestes. The tree holds the whole family history.
Speaker 1: It even holds the remnants of Pelops's Eastern origins, the
Speaker 1: hat or headdress that he wore before he came to Greece.
Speaker 2: And reigned over Myceni. There in the.
Speaker 1: Grove there is also a dark spring, quote a black
Speaker 1: and stagnant pool, most like the ugly water of terrible
Speaker 1: Sticks by which the gods swear faith. A dismal spring
Speaker 1: starts forth beneath the shadow, and a sluggish black pool
Speaker 1: creeps along. Such are the ugly waters of dread sticks,
Speaker 1: on which the gods take oath.
Speaker 2: It's said that from this place.
Speaker 1: In the dark night, the gods of death make moan
Speaker 1: with clanking chains. The grove resounds, and the ghosts howl
Speaker 1: mournfully whatever is dreadful, But to hear there is seen
Speaker 1: throngs of the long since dead come forth from their
Speaker 1: ancient tombs and walk abroad, and creatures more monstrous than
Speaker 1: men have known spring from the place. Nay More, through
Speaker 1: all the wood flames go flickering, and the lofty beams
Speaker 1: glow without the help of fire. Often the grove re
Speaker 1: echoes with three throated bayings. Often the house is of
Speaker 1: right with huge ghostly shapes. Nor is terror allayed by day.
Speaker 1: The grove is night unto itself, and the horror of
Speaker 1: the underworld rains even at midday.
Speaker 2: From this spot.
Speaker 1: Sure responses are given to those who seek oracles. With
Speaker 1: thundering noise, The fates are uttered from the shrine, and
Speaker 1: the cavern roars when the god sends.
Speaker 2: Forth his voice.
Speaker 1: The messenger goes on in his description of this place,
Speaker 1: it is both sacred, vital to the kingdom of Mycenae,
Speaker 1: and where the kings go to feel connected to their land.
Speaker 1: Then it is dark and dreary and ominous, and frankly
Speaker 1: just screams for horrific things to happen in it. He
Speaker 1: tells the chorus that rumors say that sounds are heard
Speaker 1: from the grove, the groans of spirits at night. Quote
Speaker 1: all things that make one shudder even to hear are
Speaker 1: made visible. He says that in the growth tombs burst open,
Speaker 1: and from them the living dead escape. Flames sparkle, though
Speaker 1: nothing burns. Phantoms curse the space. The light of day
Speaker 1: doesn't even reach this grove. It's as though it is
Speaker 1: perpetually night. This is where Atreus brought Thiestes's two children.
Speaker 1: The messenger goes on to tell the chorus quote, the
Speaker 1: altars are adorned. How can I say this? The little
Speaker 1: princes have their hands tied back. He binds their poor
Speaker 1: little heads with a purple band. The messenger goes on
Speaker 1: to explain how Atreus did it, not just the act itself,
Speaker 1: but what it meant. This wasn't just a killing. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just murder.
Speaker 2: It was a sacrifice.
Speaker 1: Atreus turned it into a ritualisting killing. He set it
Speaker 1: up as though they weren't children that he was killing,
Speaker 1: but some beast meant for slaughter. Incense burned, wine was
Speaker 1: poured in libation. Quote all due ritual was observed in
Speaker 1: case such a horrible crime can be done properly. The
Speaker 1: chorus asks the messenger, just who was holding the knife?
Speaker 1: I can't help but quote a longer passage here. So
Speaker 1: this is the miller translation. He is priest himself. He
Speaker 1: with baleful prayer, chance the death song with boisterous utterance.
Speaker 1: He stands by the altar. He handles those doomed to death,
Speaker 1: sets them in order, and lays hand upon the knife
Speaker 1: himself attends to all. No part of the sacred right
Speaker 1: is left undone. The grove begins to tremble. The whole
Speaker 1: palace ways from the quaking earth, uncertain where to fling
Speaker 1: its weight, and seems to waver. From the left quarter
Speaker 1: of the sky rushes a star dragging a murky trail.
Speaker 1: The wine poured upon the fire changes from wine and
Speaker 1: flows as blood from the king's head falls the crown
Speaker 1: twice and again. The ivory statues in the temples weep.
Speaker 1: These portents moved all but Atreus, alone, true to his purpose,
Speaker 1: stands and even scares the threatening gods. Even the grove
Speaker 1: doesn't want Atreus to do what he is going to do.
Speaker 1: Even nature and the gods are recoiling at what this
Speaker 1: man is planning. All of these details that the messenger
Speaker 1: provides are meant to emphasize, in these strongest possible terms,
Speaker 1: just what a crime this is. It is beyond the pale,
Speaker 1: It's unimaginable, it is quite literally the worst thing a
Speaker 1: person could do. Everyone knows it, and yet Atreus just
Speaker 1: keeps going. Even his crown, the symbol of his rulership
Speaker 1: over Myceni, doesn't stay on his head as he does this,
Speaker 1: even it is revolting from his touch. The messenger continues.
Speaker 1: He tells the chorus that in that moment Atreus stood
Speaker 1: looking at the boys. He stared at them, flitting between
Speaker 1: the two quote from the Wilson again, he wonders which
Speaker 1: to slaughter first and which to butcher second. It makes
Speaker 1: no difference, but he ponders and enjoys order in brutality.
Speaker 1: When the chorus asked, the messenger told them it was
Speaker 1: Tantalus Junior that he killed first, and this is Seneca.
Speaker 1: So the chorus then asks the messenger to explain how
Speaker 1: the boy looked when he was murdered by his uncle.
Speaker 1: He stood strong, he tells them, he didn't waste words
Speaker 1: trying to plead for his life before Atreus plunged his
Speaker 1: sword into the boy's body. It wasn't instantaneous, but eventually
Speaker 1: the boy's body collapsed back on to Atreus, and then
Speaker 1: he did the same to place the knees, dragging him
Speaker 1: to the altar and sacrificing him like an animal, cutting
Speaker 1: off his head and letting.
Speaker 2: It fall to the ground.
Speaker 1: But he wasn't done. Atreus was mad with rage, completely
Speaker 1: overcome and lost in his own fury, quote holding out
Speaker 1: the sword drenched in the two boy's blood, careless where
Speaker 1: his fury leads him, cruelly drives the blade into the
Speaker 1: chest of the child, right through, and the blood that
Speaker 1: poured from the boys put out the fires that surrounded them.
Speaker 1: And when the chorus screams out in horror, calling the
Speaker 1: act one of savagery, the messenger asks them, did you
Speaker 1: think that would be it? If that was the case,
Speaker 1: Atreus would be almost divine. No, the messenger tells the chorus,
Speaker 1: that was just the first step in Atreus's crimes, Oh
Speaker 1: crime incredible to any age, which coming generations will deny.
Speaker 1: Torn from the still living breasts, the vitals quiver, the
Speaker 1: lung still breathe, and the fluttering heart still beats, but
Speaker 1: he handles the organs and inquires the fates and notes
Speaker 1: the markings of the still warm entrails. When he has
Speaker 1: satisfied himself with the victims, he is now free to
Speaker 1: prepare his brother's banquet. With his own hands. He cuts
Speaker 1: the body into parts, severs the broad shoulders at the trunk,
Speaker 1: and cuts through the arms. Heartlessly, strips off the flesh
Speaker 1: and severs the bones. The heads only he saves, and
Speaker 1: the hands that have been given to him.
Speaker 2: In pledge of faith.
Speaker 1: Some of the flesh is fixed on spits and set
Speaker 1: before slow fires, pangs, dripping other parts boiling waters, tosses
Speaker 1: in heated kettles. The fire over leaps the feast that
Speaker 1: is set before it, and twice and again thrown back
Speaker 1: upon the shuddering hearth, and forced to tarry there, burns grudgingly.
Speaker 1: The liver sputters on the spits. Nor could I well
Speaker 1: say whether the bodies or the flames made louder groans.
Speaker 1: The fire dies to down in pitchy smoke, and the
Speaker 1: smoke itself, a gloomy and heavy.
Speaker 2: Smudge, does not rise.
Speaker 1: Straight up and lift itself in air upon the household
Speaker 1: gods themselves in disfiguring cloud it settles. Did I need
Speaker 1: to read you all that incredibly graphic scene, one that
Speaker 1: I think I could convincingly argue is the most horrific
Speaker 1: scene of all ancient tragedy. No, I did not need to.
Speaker 2: Do that, But gods, did I want to? This play
Speaker 2: is so fucked up?
Speaker 1: Should I feel badly over how much I love it?
Speaker 1: Because I don't. When the chorus asks the Messenger what
Speaker 1: it was that Atreus did next? Did he dare refuse
Speaker 1: burial to the corpses, because that is the worst thing
Speaker 1: that they can think of, refusing burial? No, the Messenger says,
Speaker 1: I wish he'd left them on the earth to rot.
Speaker 1: That would be a mercy. And he goes on detailing
Speaker 1: everything that Atrian did to the children in the speech that.
Speaker 2: I just read.
Speaker 1: And now that's not even the full speech. I just
Speaker 1: couldn't even justify quoting anymore. But he does go on.
Speaker 1: He calls to the sun itself, saying it's set too
Speaker 1: late to stop what was going to happen. Quote the
Speaker 1: father rips apart his son's putting into his murderous mouth,
Speaker 1: his own dear flesh and blood. His hair is wet
Speaker 1: and shiny with perfume, his body heavy with wine, His
Speaker 1: mouth is overstuffed, his jaws can hardly hold new morsels.
Speaker 1: Oh thiestes, The Messenger goes on, you are lucky to
Speaker 1: be ignorant of what you've just done. It's too bad
Speaker 1: that the day even had to begin at all. If
Speaker 1: only the sun could take it back, hide all of
Speaker 1: the horrific crimes under this cover of darkness quote, but
Speaker 1: we must see this evil All is now revealed, With
Speaker 1: all of this news now forced on them, all of
Speaker 1: the horror of Atreus's vengeance revealed. The chorus sings. They
Speaker 1: sing of darkness, literal and metaphorical. They sing of the
Speaker 1: darkness that has descended on the kingdom of Myceni. It
Speaker 1: is as though day has turned to night.
Speaker 2: And what it.
Speaker 1: Takes for the gods to cause such a thing? Has
Speaker 1: the chariot gone off its track? How does that happen?
Speaker 2: Quote?
Speaker 1: Is Hell's dungeon opened to reveal the conquered giants in
Speaker 1: a new attempt at war? They go on. They ask
Speaker 1: if the punished Titius has healed his wounds and his
Speaker 1: rage has been restored. They ask if Typhon has freed himself,
Speaker 1: if he is stretching all of his limbs into the air.
Speaker 1: Have those who were vanquished on the flaggery and field
Speaker 1: where the gods fought those giants? Have they returned and
Speaker 1: forced the mountains from their prison gates. Does this mark
Speaker 1: an end to dawn and dusk? They say that the sun,
Speaker 1: as he was setting into the west, has been surprised
Speaker 1: by the dawn. Everything is wrong, The world is off
Speaker 1: its kilter. The crimes that have just been committed are
Speaker 1: so horrible that nothing can remain as it was. The
Speaker 1: earth might as well have stopped spinning. It is not
Speaker 1: something one worries lightly that the god's will or already
Speaker 1: have abandoned humanity entirely because.
Speaker 2: Of what Atreus has done.
Speaker 1: The chorus of Mycenaeans fear that this might mean the
Speaker 1: end of everything, that the world itself will collapse into chaos,
Speaker 1: the sea might swallow the earth, that the sun will
Speaker 1: never shine again, the moon will never shine in the
Speaker 1: night day quote, the mass of gods will be heaped
Speaker 1: away into a single chasm. They wonder if the constellations
Speaker 1: of the zodiac and beyond will change their shape, if
Speaker 1: they will be lost entirely. Quote we were born for
Speaker 1: a cruel lot, whether we poor things have lost the
Speaker 1: Sun or forced him into exile. And then Atreus returns
Speaker 1: to the stage and gods, is he proud of himself
Speaker 1: as a peer of the stars. I move and towering
Speaker 1: over all touch with proud head the lofty heavens, Now
Speaker 1: the glory of the realm I hold now my father's throne.
Speaker 1: I release the gods for the utmost of my prayers
Speaker 1: have high attained. It's well, it's more than well, And
Speaker 1: now it's enough even for me.
Speaker 2: But why enough?
Speaker 1: No? I will co forward, even though the Father is
Speaker 1: full fed with his dead sons. That shape might not
Speaker 1: hold me back. They has departed on, while heaven is tenantless.
Speaker 1: Oh that I might stay. The fleeing deities might force
Speaker 1: and draw them here, that they might all see the
Speaker 1: avenging feast. But it's enough if the Father sees, even
Speaker 1: though daylight refuses me aid, I'll dispel the darkness from
Speaker 1: you beneath which your woes are lurking. Too long you
Speaker 1: lied at feast with care free and cheerful countenance. Now
Speaker 1: enough time has been given to tables, enough to whine
Speaker 1: for such monstrous ills. There needs thyestes sober. Even Atreus
Speaker 1: considers that the gods have fled the heavens because of
Speaker 1: what he's done, but he's not worried about it like
Speaker 1: the chorus is.
Speaker 2: Instead, he wishes that he could.
Speaker 1: Have held them back, forced them to watch this feast
Speaker 1: of Thiestes.
Speaker 2: But it's okay.
Speaker 1: He thinks, as long as Thiestes is there, h he'll
Speaker 1: be satisfied. And of course Thiastes is there. Atreus is speaking. Now,
Speaker 1: after they have feasted together, Thiestes' is belly is full,
Speaker 1: he is satiated and full of wine, among other things.
Speaker 1: Now it's time for the party to start. Atreus directs
Speaker 1: his slaves to open the palace to reveal Thistes at
Speaker 1: the banquet table, where he's a little out of it. Actually,
Speaker 1: he's so full of food and wine, so overcome by
Speaker 1: being home after so long. Atreas speaks to his slaves, quote,
Speaker 1: how sweet to watch him looking at his children's heads,
Speaker 1: How sweet to see his altered face. To hear him
Speaker 1: as his first grief gushes out, Atrius is just he's
Speaker 1: so excited for this reveal. I'm so excited for the show,
Speaker 1: and tell that he's about to put Thiestes through. He's
Speaker 1: so full of joy watching his brother. He talks about
Speaker 1: him being so full that he lets out a belch
Speaker 1: that he's actually quite drunk, almost sloppy drunk from the wine. Wine.
Speaker 1: That oh look, he says, Thiestes is having another sip
Speaker 1: of wine.
Speaker 2: Wonderful. Quote the vintage.
Speaker 1: Wine camouflages the blood. May this drink right here, right now,
Speaker 1: round off his meal, a cocktail of his children's blood.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Finally Thiestes speaks, and he's relieved. Quote away with grief,
Speaker 1: away with fear, away with that companion of my exile.
Speaker 1: He's just happy to be home, he goes on, quote
Speaker 1: the sense of loss is worse than suffering.
Speaker 2: Good for me.
Speaker 1: Phew, Seneca, you are really twisting that knife, aren't you.
Speaker 1: Diastes continue speaking. He's talking about how he really should
Speaker 1: be happy because everything that's happened was all that he's wanted.
Speaker 1: He's home, he's been welcomed.
Speaker 2: He should be so relieved.
Speaker 3: So why is he feeling so off?
Speaker 1: He starts talking about how he's he's having trouble showing
Speaker 1: any sort of happiness, how he can't seem to revel
Speaker 1: in the joy that he obviously should feel. Why is
Speaker 1: why is he in pain for no reason? Why is
Speaker 1: he crying for no reason? He talks about he has
Speaker 1: that he has an inexplicable desire to tear at his
Speaker 1: royal clothes, to destroy them, to scream and grown. Quote
Speaker 1: the mind gives indications of a grief to come profit
Speaker 1: of its future pain. Seneca does he knows what he's doing,
Speaker 1: while Thiestes is on the surface entirely ignorant of what's
Speaker 1: happened to his children. He's having like bodily reactions that
Speaker 1: tell him that something is horrifically wrong, even if he
Speaker 1: doesn't know what it is yet. He's fighting with these
Speaker 1: feelings though like he doesn't understand them. He's just sad
Speaker 1: and terrified for no reason. Quote there is no cause.
Speaker 1: Is it grief or fear? Or does great pleasure make
Speaker 1: me cry? Hatreus, though, isn't revealing himself yet, he wants
Speaker 1: Thiestes to be even deeper into his celebrations. He calls
Speaker 1: to his brother that they need to celebrate such a
Speaker 1: great day quote today my throne is solid and we
Speaker 1: are bound in solid trust, sure peace, to which Thistes
Speaker 1: notes that he's full of food, full of wine, and
Speaker 1: quote the only thing that could increase my pleasure as
Speaker 1: if my boys could join me in my joy. Oh
Speaker 1: your boys are here now, don't you worry, Atreus tells Thiestes.
Speaker 1: Quote they are here and always will be no part
Speaker 1: of your children can ever be taken from you. Then
Speaker 1: Atreus tells Thiestes that he will He will bring him
Speaker 1: the faces of his sons that you know that he
Speaker 1: longs to see.
Speaker 2: Just now.
Speaker 1: They're with my own sons. They're enjoying the feast. But
Speaker 1: I'll bring them in here. He adds, quote, have a drink.
Speaker 1: This is a family cup. That Thiistes moves to take
Speaker 1: a drink from the cup with the wine that's not
Speaker 1: just wine, raising the glass in honor of his brother.
Speaker 1: But something's wrong. His hands won't seem to hold the
Speaker 1: cup to his mouth when he tries to take a drink,
Speaker 1: that the wine pours out and spills, and he doesn't
Speaker 1: get a drop. How frustrating, he says, Why is he
Speaker 1: having so much trouble with what should be such an
Speaker 1: easy thing? And these are Thiestes's next words from the
Speaker 1: Miller translation. The lifted wine recoils from my very lips,
Speaker 1: around my gaping jaws, cheating my mouth. It flows, and
Speaker 1: the very table leaps up from the trampling floor. The
Speaker 1: lights burn dim, Know that the very heavens grow heavy.
Speaker 1: Stand in amazement between day and night, deserted. What next
Speaker 1: now more, still more, the vault of the shattered sky
Speaker 1: is tottering. A thicker gloom with dense shades is gathering,
Speaker 1: and night has hidden away in a blacker night. Every
Speaker 1: star is in full flight. Whatever it is, I beg
Speaker 1: it may spare my brother and my son's, and may
Speaker 1: storm break with all its force on this vile head.
Speaker 1: Give back now my son's to me, So Atrius does.
Speaker 1: He goes inside, and he returns with a covered platter,
Speaker 1: while Thistes waits, his stomach rumbling and churning his body,
Speaker 1: rejecting the food and wine that he has just gorged
Speaker 1: himself on. And when Atreus has returned with that platter,
Speaker 1: he removes the cover, revealing the severed heads of Thiestes's
Speaker 1: two children, and tells his brother, quote, get ready to.
Speaker 2: Hug your children. They're here already.
Speaker 3: Do you not recognize them?
Speaker 1: I recognize my brother. Can you endure o earth to
Speaker 1: bear a crime so monstrous? Why does it not burst
Speaker 1: asunder and plunge you down to the infernal stitgy in
Speaker 1: shades and by a huge opening to void chaos, snatch
Speaker 1: this kingdom with its king away? Why does it not
Speaker 1: raise this whole palace to the very ground and overturn mycene.
Speaker 1: We should, both of us, long since have been with
Speaker 1: Tantalus rend asunder your prison bars on every side. And
Speaker 1: if there is any place beneath Tartarus and our grandsires
Speaker 1: bear with huge abyss, let down your chasm and hide
Speaker 1: us buried beneath all Asheron. Let guilty souls wander above
Speaker 1: our heads, and let fiery Phleagathon with glowing flood down,
Speaker 1: pouring all his sands flow tempestuous above our place of exile.
Speaker 1: But the earth, all unmoved and insensate mass. The gods
Speaker 1: have fled away, needless to say yes. Thiistes recognizes his
Speaker 1: sons as his brother holds their severed heads before him.
Speaker 1: Oh aren't you happy, Atreus taunts his brother. You wanted
Speaker 1: your children here they are, and now why don't you
Speaker 1: give them a kiss and a hug? Thistes, I mean
Speaker 1: God's I think he's just in shock, or his body
Speaker 1: has already prepared him to face this, because he only
Speaker 1: wants his brother to let him bury his son's bodies.
Speaker 1: He knows there's nothing left to be done for them now,
Speaker 1: but it's too late to save them. But he can
Speaker 1: give them peace. He can bury their bodies if Atreus
Speaker 1: will allow that, after what he's done. But all that
Speaker 1: Atreus did is now revealed.
Speaker 2: Because he tells Thiestes quote.
Speaker 1: You have all that remains of your children, and even
Speaker 1: what does not What Thiistes asks, are their bodies left
Speaker 1: somewhere to be eaten by wild animals, to which Atreus
Speaker 1: just says, quote, you are the one who feasted on
Speaker 1: your son's ugh thisds groans. It was this that made
Speaker 1: the gods turn away from us. It was this that
Speaker 1: gave us night when it should be day. How is
Speaker 1: it even possible to mourn them now? Quote these are
Speaker 1: the parts that even their greedy father did not have
Speaker 1: room for. Inside my belly, they heave. The horror struggles
Speaker 1: to escape, there is no exit. Thiistes makes a move
Speaker 1: now to.
Speaker 2: Take Atreus's sword.
Speaker 1: He talks about thrusting it into his own chest so
Speaker 1: that he can join his sons, but he can't. The
Speaker 1: sword won't do it. He wants to tear at himself,
Speaker 1: to beat at himself, but he can't because that would
Speaker 1: be unkind to his son's bodies, which are now fused
Speaker 1: with his own. Quote, Look, my children and I weigh
Speaker 1: down one another. The crime at least is balanced. But no,
Speaker 1: Atreus does not think that even this was enough to
Speaker 1: repay Thistes for his crimes. Quote even this is too
Speaker 1: little for me. I should have poured hot blood into
Speaker 1: your mouth directly from their wounds, to make you drink
Speaker 1: them alive. He talks about how he was too impatient
Speaker 1: in his rage to do such a thing, even though
Speaker 1: he wished he had. Now he rushed himself to the
Speaker 1: salaughter of the sacrifice Thyestes' children. He tells Thiastes how
Speaker 1: he dismembered just how he cut them up into little
Speaker 1: pieces quote which I plunged into the boiling pots and
Speaker 1: had them simmered on a gentle heat. He tells Thiistes
Speaker 1: that he cut the muscles off of their arms and
Speaker 1: legs and skewered them on spits. But he says, my
Speaker 1: vengeance was a failure. It would have been so much
Speaker 1: better had Thiistes done it all himself.
Speaker 2: Quote.
Speaker 1: The wicked father munched up his sons, but did not
Speaker 1: know it, nor did they. Thiistes replied to his brother,
Speaker 1: to this horrific news, and even more horrific sight is
Speaker 1: his final speech in the play, and it needs to
Speaker 1: be read, So here's the miller translation. Here, Oh you
Speaker 1: sees by shifting shores imprisoned, and you too hear this crime.
Speaker 1: Wherever you have fled, you gods, here, lords of the underworld. Here,
Speaker 1: lands and night heavy with black tartarian fogs, give ear
Speaker 1: to my cries to you and I abandoned. Only you
Speaker 1: have looked on my woe. You've also been forsaken by
Speaker 1: the stars. No wicked, Please, will I make not for myself?
Speaker 2: Implore?
Speaker 1: And what now can I ask on my own?
Speaker 3: Behalf?
Speaker 2: For you?
Speaker 1: Shall my prayers be offered, Oh you, exalted ruler of
Speaker 1: the sky, who sits in majesty upon the throne of heaven,
Speaker 1: And wrap the whole universe in awful clouds, set the
Speaker 1: winds warring on every hand, and from every quarter of
Speaker 1: the sky. Let the loud thunders roll. Not with what
Speaker 1: hand you seek houses and undeserving homes using your lesser bolts,
Speaker 1: but with the hand by which the threefold mass of
Speaker 1: mountains fell, and the giants who stood level with the
Speaker 1: mountains these arms let loose and hurl your fires. Make
Speaker 1: compensation for the banished to day brandish your flames, and
Speaker 1: the light that was snatched from heaven with your lightnings
Speaker 1: flash Supply let the cause lest you hesitate too long.
Speaker 1: Of each one of us be evil, If not, let
Speaker 1: mine be evil. Aim yours at me through this heart,
Speaker 1: send your three forked flaming bolt. If I their father
Speaker 1: could give my sons a burial and commit them to
Speaker 1: funeral flames, I must be myself be burned. But if
Speaker 1: nothing moves the gods, and no divinity hurls darts against
Speaker 1: the impious, may night stay on forever and cover with
Speaker 1: endless darkness, boundless crimes. No protest do I make, Oh Sun,
Speaker 1: if you'd stay where you are, Oh there it is,
Speaker 1: Atreus says, there's my real prize.
Speaker 2: This would have.
Speaker 1: Been a waste if you weren't in pain like you
Speaker 1: are now. Atrius even seems to think that this confirms
Speaker 1: the paternity of his own sons, that this restores his marriage,
Speaker 1: and when Thiistes asks what his sons could possibly have
Speaker 1: done to deserve such a fate, he just says, well,
Speaker 1: they were your sons. Atrians says, I, well, I'm convinced
Speaker 1: that he's he's somehow possessed by this fury. Because he
Speaker 1: seems to just devolve into full blown delusion. He tells
Speaker 1: Thiistes that he's not heard about losing his sons. He's
Speaker 1: hurt because Atreus got to his plan first. He claims
Speaker 1: that Thiastes would have and even planned to do the
Speaker 1: same thing to him. Quote, you have the plan to
Speaker 1: lay out the same menu for your credulous brother, to
Speaker 1: make their mother help attack the children and kill them
Speaker 1: the same way.
Speaker 3: Only this stopped you.
Speaker 2: You thought they were yours.
Speaker 1: Yes, Atreus believes that thy yests would have done exactly
Speaker 1: the same thing. The only reason that he didn't already
Speaker 1: murder and carve up Agamemnon and Menelaus with the help
Speaker 1: of their mother was because Thiestes thought that they were
Speaker 1: his sons and not Atreus's. Thiestes is not about to
Speaker 1: argue with this man. He's too far gone, both of
Speaker 1: them are. Instead, he just says that he will leave
Speaker 1: his brother to the punishment of the gods.
Speaker 2: They will take their revenge.
Speaker 1: The furies will come for him, surely, to which Atreus
Speaker 1: replies with the last line of the play, quote and
Speaker 1: for your punishment, I give you your children. That play
Speaker 1: was so fucked up it was so fucked up. I
Speaker 1: don't even know how to fathom how fucked up that was.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, I'm never getting over this. I love that
Speaker 1: so much. Truly, that was worse than any horror movie
Speaker 1: I could name.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It was laid out so beautifully, the suspense was incredible.
Speaker 1: Like the speeches, Oh, the speeches. Honestly, I don't even
Speaker 1: I don't even have more to say now, because I'm
Speaker 1: just like, I'm too in awe of how fucking fucked
Speaker 1: that was. So thank you for listening. I just I
Speaker 1: love Seneca, I guess, and I certainly love Spooky season
Speaker 1: and having any reason to make episodes like this.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: A couple just quick translation notes. Every time I've quoted
Speaker 1: something without like clarifying that it's a quote, it's always
Speaker 1: the long passages, and usually you know, before the episode
Speaker 1: or after music or something. That's always been the Frank
Speaker 1: Justice Miller translation. That's the one that's out of copyright,
Speaker 1: and thus I can read it however much I want.
Speaker 1: I've also adapted it in small ways just to make
Speaker 1: it easier to understand or cut it for length. But
Speaker 1: thank fuck we have that translation though, Because Seneca speeches,
Speaker 1: they're too good to avoid quoting at length. But all
Speaker 1: the other shorter quotes and the translation that I've been
Speaker 1: referring to for like all of the details themselves is
Speaker 1: Emily Wilson's this edition though too. It's really great and
Speaker 1: it's affordable if you're interested. It's the Oxford Classics and
Speaker 1: it has this play and his madea and more highly recommend.
Speaker 1: I do have the ebook and it was like nine bucks.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much more the print, but I
Speaker 1: imagine it's still pretty affordable. And finishing off with a
Speaker 1: review from one of you amazing people. This comes from
Speaker 1: the very seasonally appropriate username goth ghost King in the States.
Speaker 1: Let's talk ab outmits maybe is amazing. I just recently
Speaker 1: started listening, but I love this podcast. I've been into
Speaker 1: mythology since first grade, and this podcast is an amazing
Speaker 1: source for it. I love all of the sarcasm and
Speaker 1: how Live calls out all the sexism and toxic masculinity
Speaker 1: and the various other problems. Greek mythology is amazing, but
Speaker 1: let's face it, it's got some problems. I also love
Speaker 1: how she mentions Achilles and Patrick Less probably being in
Speaker 1: a relationship, and how this podcast is like, Hey, being
Speaker 1: gay isn't a new thing. I just love this podcast
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you so much for that review. That
Speaker 1: was really lovely.
Speaker 2: It made my day.
Speaker 1: May all make my day consider leaving one. This episode
Speaker 1: featured brand new, custom created magnificent music. It is by
Speaker 1: Luke Chaos and Luke came through and completely rushed this
Speaker 1: so that it could would be in this episode of
Speaker 1: all episodes, So thank you.
Speaker 2: Let's talk go. Mis Baby is written and produced by
Speaker 2: me Lave Albert. MICHAELA.
Speaker 1: Smith is the Hermes to my Olympians, my assistant producer.
Speaker 1: The podcast is hosted and monetized by iHeartMedia. Listen on
Speaker 1: Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Help me continue
Speaker 1: bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the ancient
Speaker 1: Mediterranean by becoming a patron, where you'll get bonus episodes
Speaker 1: and more. Visit patreon dot com slash myths Baby, or
Speaker 1: click the link in this episode's description. I am liv
Speaker 1: and I love this shit even but it's one of
Speaker 1: the most horrible and disgusting things I've ever read into
Speaker 1: a microphone.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Seneca S.