Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steffone
Speaker 1: never told you a production of Buyheart Radio. Okay, So
Speaker 1: we are in well into the new year, which blows
Speaker 1: my mind, and we've been talking a lot about the
Speaker 1: good and the bad of resolutions, especially marketing around resolutions.
Speaker 1: You recently had an episode where we even talked about
Speaker 1: this briefly. But I want to bring back our episode
Speaker 1: we did on the femininization of self care because this
Speaker 1: is a very like at the beginning of the year,
Speaker 1: self care is a big thing of it, and I
Speaker 1: have gotten a series of headlines that are you know,
Speaker 1: clearly directed towards women. But we've talked about this before,
Speaker 1: but in our show Inbox, we get a lot of
Speaker 1: cold emails. Some of the are very funny. Especially love
Speaker 1: when they make the mistake in the name part. I
Speaker 1: love that you live for that. I also love when
Speaker 1: they kind of threaten you where they're like, you don't
Speaker 1: respond within five days this offer is I'm like what.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love when they don't know what we do
Speaker 2: and just assume that by the title they know what
Speaker 2: we do and they just make this random Yeah. Those
Speaker 2: are my favorite.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I do get a kick out of them
Speaker 1: sometimes and for anyone who does those, I know, like,
Speaker 1: we're not making fun of you, we just get some
Speaker 1: that are very comical.
Speaker 3: It is. I used to do that actually for another
Speaker 3: job I did. Yes, it's work. So yeah.
Speaker 2: That one dude though, who was like, you really need
Speaker 2: a note about how women are ruining the boat.
Speaker 3: They're ruining, women are ruining things for women.
Speaker 1: Yes, but I have been getting some that are kind
Speaker 1: of self care for men and it's very comical to
Speaker 1: me and how they phrase it where it's still in
Speaker 1: that kind of like very stereotypical manly man.
Speaker 3: Like take care of yourself, but look what doing it like,
Speaker 3: I'm just.
Speaker 1: So perplexed by this whole thing, so in that vein,
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring back this classic episode, so please enjoy.
Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie.
Speaker 2: And Samantha and OW come to Steff.
Speaker 3: I've never told you protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: So for today's question, Samantha, I'm not sure you'll know
Speaker 1: the answer, but do you remember when you became familiar
Speaker 1: with the idea of self care?
Speaker 2: You know, I honestly don't think it was until recently
Speaker 2: that I learned of this. And when I say recently,
Speaker 2: the idea and concept of self care was not something
Speaker 2: in my Christian upbringing. Sure, so that was not something
Speaker 2: especially as a woman who was supposed to be the
Speaker 2: caretaker of the nurturer. That's not a thing. For my mother.
Speaker 2: I definitely never saw that from her. She's constantly going.
Speaker 2: She is still constantly going to this day and she
Speaker 2: is sixty five. So for me, I don't think it
Speaker 2: really came into play until I literally had a panic attack,
Speaker 2: anxiety attack that shut me down for a week in
Speaker 2: when I was working as a child abuse investigator and
Speaker 2: I had a panic attack in the middle of Longhorns. Yes,
Speaker 2: I did, to the point that my friends were like,
Speaker 2: are you okay?
Speaker 3: Are you okay?
Speaker 2: Like coworkers and they're like, don't look at her, don't
Speaker 2: look at her, because then you made it worse, right,
Speaker 2: And so it wasn't until then, so out of college
Speaker 2: in my first job, that I truly figured out, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to kill myself through doing too much and
Speaker 2: not taking care of myself because I'm putting the responsibility
Speaker 2: of the world on me. So I feel like it
Speaker 2: really wasn't until about two thousand and six, so pretty
Speaker 2: mch a long time that I understood the concept without
Speaker 2: knowing the term, right, and that included a lot of
Speaker 2: hiking and exercising, and that was my form of self care.
Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, I'd already started therapy, but
Speaker 2: that was trauma related. So self care is really different
Speaker 2: from delving into trauma. Yeah, as we all know, as.
Speaker 3: We all know.
Speaker 1: People who listen to this show. Certainly, I actually don't
Speaker 1: think I knew about self care because I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, you know about it in terms of taking
Speaker 1: care of yourself, but the term and the idea of
Speaker 1: like prioritizing it and that it's important, I don't think
Speaker 1: I knew until twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've talked about it.
Speaker 1: Before on the show in several different instances.
Speaker 3: I am really bad at it. I think a lot
Speaker 3: of women are.
Speaker 1: So even when I was like, Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do this self care thing, my attitude around it was
Speaker 1: the opposite of what it needed to be. It was
Speaker 1: like another check box, right, that made it at another
Speaker 1: stressor and oh I have to do this thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we are going to talk about that, but I
Speaker 1: it's still something I struggle with.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, I think for me, Yeah, the term
Speaker 2: was not self care. It was mental health day, which
Speaker 2: I know we talk about in my industry where I
Speaker 2: came from, with especially with like government jobs or service jobs.
Speaker 2: We talk about mental health days and trying to get them.
Speaker 2: And it's so frowned upon in that industry. Like they
Speaker 2: tell you to do it, they tell you to do
Speaker 2: it right, they tell you to shut off your phone,
Speaker 2: they tell you that, you know, you take you a
Speaker 2: week of vacation, and a few people have, and I
Speaker 2: love and admire that, And I think few people have
Speaker 2: because they had to and it like they had families
Speaker 2: or whatever whatnot, and it caused a lot of problems
Speaker 2: in marriages or problems with their children because a lot
Speaker 2: of people would put their job first. But we were
Speaker 2: told to take our mental health day, but made sure
Speaker 2: to be told, don't say it's a mental health day,
Speaker 2: tell them you're sick. It's just kind of that level.
Speaker 2: So for the longest time, and I know think people
Speaker 2: think it that way still, that term is really really
Speaker 2: it's definitely become a little more of a fad. The
Speaker 2: term not necessarily a practice, so to me, is kind
Speaker 2: of a newer idea and it does feel really selfish. Yeah,
Speaker 2: to say you need that.
Speaker 1: Yes, So we're going to talk about that that feeling,
Speaker 1: and today we're also going to talk a lot about
Speaker 1: how self care has been feminized, how seen as sort
Speaker 1: of this purview of women, and it's been in the news.
Speaker 3: A lot lately for a variety of reasons.
Speaker 1: But I did want to bring this up that Pinterest
Speaker 1: recently announced guidelines to I guess, foster a healthier environment
Speaker 1: on their platform, to be kinder and to be more
Speaker 1: positive in general, which I find interesting because Pinterest.
Speaker 3: To me, there's a lot of.
Speaker 1: Great things that can happen on Pinterest, but I see
Speaker 1: the negative of almost that like wishful. You know, your
Speaker 1: pin board if I want to be what is that
Speaker 1: called inspiration and you want to be this thin and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this and this and this out like
Speaker 1: that perfect life that you build, Okay, unhealthy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not really into Pinterest, so but I'm definitely
Speaker 2: seeing the boards and that sounds horrifying because also people
Speaker 2: can look at this.
Speaker 1: Right they can, but you can put it on private.
Speaker 1: I think all of mine are on private, except for
Speaker 1: my random nineties board.
Speaker 3: I was going to a nineties theme party. Now shut
Speaker 3: with costume, of course, but all my liked what you'll
Speaker 3: find out soon enough, you.
Speaker 2: Know what that makes me paining. Let's not take it.
Speaker 3: I know, I know.
Speaker 1: So back to this Pinterest thing is they have this
Speaker 1: creator code that says I agree to be kind, check
Speaker 1: my facts, be aware of triggers, practice inclusion, and do
Speaker 1: no harm, which I'm curious how they will reinforce those.
Speaker 1: But we're seeing more social media platforms try to do
Speaker 1: these things, which is something else we've.
Speaker 3: Talked about a lot.
Speaker 1: And I remember when I first came on as a
Speaker 1: host of this show, some people would write in and
Speaker 1: say why they didn't like trigger warnings, why they thought
Speaker 1: they were like useless and actually harmful, and I would
Speaker 1: argue back, like my side of it. And I feel
Speaker 1: like it's shifting towards people being more aware of why
Speaker 1: you need to think about those sorts of things.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, honestly, that's kind of why we how
Speaker 2: that conversation about Trauma Series began, everybody was so leaning
Speaker 2: to oh my god, everybody's so PC, they're so sensitive,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. No, but this is why we need
Speaker 2: these things, because it has for our entire lives. We
Speaker 2: didn't have this, and I really wish we did. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is okay to have those warnings, but why it
Speaker 2: was important and why we need to respect them. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that's interesting to see because we have kind of gone
Speaker 2: all back and forth and back and forth of is
Speaker 2: this a problem or is this a solution or is
Speaker 2: this adding on to the problems, And it's kind of
Speaker 2: I'm really glad to see that it's sticking and it's
Speaker 2: becoming a thing, aren't you.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I remember in particular, one person was a
Speaker 1: professor and they wrote in and they were like, I
Speaker 1: just feel that giving trigger warnings it means that topics
Speaker 1: that need to be talked about won't be talked about.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I hear you, but I think
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean I won't show up to whatever lesson.
Speaker 1: It just means I'll show up knowing I need to
Speaker 1: be prepared for this. And I, obviously you and I
Speaker 1: don't think that doesn't mean don't talk about something. It's
Speaker 1: just giving people that like warning if they need it
Speaker 1: to take care of themselves. And speaking of let's do
Speaker 1: a brief definition like we like to do what it
Speaker 1: is self care.
Speaker 3: According to the World Health organization. It is quote.
Speaker 1: Self care is what people do for themselves to establish
Speaker 1: and maintain health and to prevent and deal with illness.
Speaker 1: It is a broad concept, encompassing hygiene, general and personal nutrition,
Speaker 1: type in quality of food eaten, lifestyle, sporting activities, leisure,
Speaker 1: et cetera, environmental factors, living conditions, social habits, et cetera,
Speaker 1: socio and economic factors, income level, cultural beliefs, et cetera,
Speaker 1: and self medication. This can include things like yes, nutrition, hygiene,
Speaker 1: or seeking medical care. It is often described as something
Speaker 1: that brings you joy. And this definition is pretty old.
Speaker 1: I think it's from nineteen ninety eight actually, and it's
Speaker 1: been updated and various outlets like the World Health Organization.
Speaker 1: To me, this makes sense, but I think of self
Speaker 1: care as a much more like find something, yeah, that
Speaker 1: brings you joy and do that thing, right.
Speaker 3: But I do think that large.
Speaker 1: Definition that makes sense as well.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: Some have put self care into categories like emotional self care,
Speaker 1: taking dedicated breaks, physical self care, getting enough sleep, eating well,
Speaker 1: and spiritual self care, which can include spending time in nature.
Speaker 1: Some break it down even further into temporary versus enduring,
Speaker 1: so like a one time self care thing or something
Speaker 1: that is an ongoing self care thing. And also I
Speaker 1: really recommend looking up.
Speaker 3: Actually it's not. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I thought it was funny, but the World Health Organization
Speaker 1: has a self care hippopotamus diagram, which did bring me
Speaker 1: joy and I did laugh quite heartily at it.
Speaker 2: Well, I love hippopotamus, so even.
Speaker 3: Though they're quite dangerous.
Speaker 2: Samantha, I'm sure I also like many other things that
Speaker 2: I would rather not hang out with you. It's fair
Speaker 2: just saying so. It can manifest many ways, like writing
Speaker 2: or journaling, meditating, yoga, hiking, listening to music, stretching and
Speaker 2: crafting a long bath with some wine one of my favorites.
Speaker 2: Taking time on social media, which I've yet to be
Speaker 2: able to do, enjoy a nice cup of coffee, a
Speaker 2: facial allowing yourself to say no or cancel plans, which
Speaker 2: I'm a pro at happy hour with friends, which oh
Speaker 2: my goodness, we've gotten vaccinated so we can do that again. Yay.
Speaker 2: Steel safely, of course, and basically a way for you
Speaker 2: to make space to relax, check in with yourself and recharge.
Speaker 2: And as an introvert, I definitely have to do this
Speaker 2: on a consistent basis, self care goes hand in hand
Speaker 2: with mindfulness, of being aware when you're engaging in unhealthy
Speaker 2: habits or behaviors and asking yourself what triggered that?
Speaker 1: Right and quarantine has made self care more difficult in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, which sounds like that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: But if you're thinking, but all I've been doing is
Speaker 1: watching Netflix on my couch during the pandemic, isn't that
Speaker 1: self care?
Speaker 3: Why do I need self care? It does not necessarily.
Speaker 1: Count unless it's a mindful decision to take care of yourself.
Speaker 1: It doesn't really qualify as self care. It might be
Speaker 1: a coping mechanism. But if that's all you're doing, you're
Speaker 1: buying and mind won't thank you for it. No blame,
Speaker 1: no shame at all. There is an end in my
Speaker 1: couch that was not there before this quarantine. Oh it's
Speaker 1: just an oddspace to navigate our thoughts on self care
Speaker 1: and productivity when you are confined inside.
Speaker 3: At least that's been my case.
Speaker 1: I've definitely given a lot of thought to mindfulness, and
Speaker 1: I think I've gotten better at it. But by getting
Speaker 1: better at it, I've learned I have a lot of
Speaker 1: other issues that I need.
Speaker 3: To get better at.
Speaker 2: I think this is the problem with reflecting too much
Speaker 2: on yourself. You're like, well, let me check in. Oh crap.
Speaker 2: There are so many things, especially for a person like
Speaker 2: you who's on the go all the time. For me
Speaker 2: talking about the Netflix thing, to not think about those things.
Speaker 2: I consistently watch the same things over and over and
Speaker 2: over again, so at least I can just drift off.
Speaker 2: But it's all the time. And for me, the practice
Speaker 2: of self care is actually meditating. I've talked about the
Speaker 2: commat before, and I've talked about how much I enjoy it,
Speaker 2: and I don't use it as often as I like,
Speaker 2: meaning daily, But when I do, it is a self
Speaker 2: awareness of knowing, Okay, I need to do this to
Speaker 2: focus a little bit. That's not Netflix, you know, And
Speaker 2: so I think, yeah, definitely, But having those moments is
Speaker 2: very RESTful to me, to be able to sit and
Speaker 2: not do anything and just hear nice water sounds.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, Also those tubs are like, why can't I
Speaker 2: do this all the time? What is going on?
Speaker 1: And like you said earlier, Samantha, though self care is
Speaker 1: often painted as selfish or indulgent, it's really important to
Speaker 1: our health. Research shows practicing it promotes better health, longer life,
Speaker 1: less stress, higher self esteem, and more productivity. Actually, not
Speaker 1: practicing self care can have negative impacts on your mind
Speaker 1: and body, leading to things like burnout, not just professionally
Speaker 1: but personally, and we've seen a lot of conversation about
Speaker 1: this recently in the activist space. It can also be
Speaker 1: costly in terms of doctor's visits that might be necessary
Speaker 1: if you're not looking after yourself, or even the loss
Speaker 1: of work when it comes to burnout.
Speaker 2: Right, and also with burnout, we could also talk about
Speaker 2: the new term is fatigue, and we were talking a
Speaker 2: lot about now because we're talking about COVID fatigue or
Speaker 2: quarantine fatigue or any of those things and try to
Speaker 2: go back out. It's a whole thing. So yeah, it's
Speaker 2: definitely something that actually helps you care for yourself in
Speaker 2: a way that seems selfish, but it's actually not. And
Speaker 2: the thing about self care, it's not just about you,
Speaker 2: but how you impact the other people in your life
Speaker 2: and how you can serve your community and do your job.
Speaker 2: As the importance of self care has been largely recognized
Speaker 2: in many ways, it's been co opted, yes by beauty
Speaker 2: companies and feminized. Of course it has. And if you
Speaker 2: search for self care kits, you'll see and I will
Speaker 2: say this because I actually try to find one for
Speaker 2: a friend who is going through a really hard time,
Speaker 2: and oh my goodness, you see a lot of small
Speaker 2: related items and chocolate, and the entire time I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if she likes to do any of things,
Speaker 2: like Michael likes to ride motorcycles and you know she
Speaker 2: likes to go to target practice. There's no need for this,
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong. If you love it, that's great too. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: I love chocolate. Give me my chocolate. If you specifically
Speaker 2: search for men's self care, it's almost always black and
Speaker 2: red accented grilling stuff and or alcohol, which, by the way,
Speaker 2: women like alcohol toos. But that's not always a solution
Speaker 2: for self care and my illness. Just put that out there.
Speaker 2: And grilling is great. Grilling is great. If you like that,
Speaker 2: great spall stuff is great. Once again, love that. But clearly,
Speaker 2: this is a space, like many others, that has been very,
Speaker 2: very gendered, to even the point to say the words
Speaker 2: like mental health day it seems weak, and so people
Speaker 2: don't want to say it when it really does not
Speaker 2: need to be in a lot of ways. The gendering
Speaker 2: is unhealthy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and more and more people are getting
Speaker 1: in on self care. From twenty fifteen to twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: Google trends indicate that searches for self care doubled. But yeah,
Speaker 1: there is this unhealthy gender split, and we'll get into that,
Speaker 1: but first we're gonna pause for quick break for a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. And we're back, Thank you, sponsor,
Speaker 1: and we're back with self care for men.
Speaker 2: When I see this, I keep one say, just for men.
Speaker 1: Like the hair product, Yes, I mean that's a space
Speaker 1: where the companies have tried to like masculinize right self cares, like, hey,
Speaker 1: manly man, smelled good, so you can get cute lady
Speaker 1: over there.
Speaker 2: Right, look at this gray bottle is obviously for you,
Speaker 2: the dark gray and only.
Speaker 1: Clear with the red top almost always yeah old spice.
Speaker 2: Really They have specifically brought in a woman to tell
Speaker 2: her she can't use it because it's not for her
Speaker 2: for their newer products, right why.
Speaker 1: Because it smells too nice. So she's like, that's obviously
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: Right right, But he's saying, no, it's mine, don't touch it.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm can do that, y's whatever product is available.
Speaker 1: So men are not as involved in the self care
Speaker 1: space as women, and there are a couple of reasons why.
Speaker 1: One reason is that there are more entry points into
Speaker 1: self care for women, whether it is Friends of yours
Speaker 1: or magazines or Instagram, it's general more accessible and acceptable
Speaker 1: for women. Some of that is the beauty industry trying
Speaker 1: to capitalize off women, no doubt, but it is more acceptable.
Speaker 3: In our very warped society.
Speaker 1: Taking care of yourself is sometimes viewed as yes, a
Speaker 1: weakness or selfish, and because we view women as the
Speaker 1: quote weaker gender, it's more acceptable for them to do it.
Speaker 1: And beauty was a space that was already dominated by
Speaker 1: women in a lot of ways, so it was an
Speaker 1: easier transition.
Speaker 3: Not that all self care is beauty based.
Speaker 1: Not at all, but a lot of it when we
Speaker 1: see it advertised, a lot of it is. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of dismissal of self care as being for snowflakes,
Speaker 1: are vappish women, indulgent women, things like that.
Speaker 2: Right, which is hilarious because when we look at the
Speaker 2: job industry and we talk about the working from home,
Speaker 2: how it's doubled women's workflowd and yet we want to
Speaker 2: say this is weak makes me laugh again. This is
Speaker 2: a big deal for a lot of reasons. We've talked
Speaker 2: in previous episodes about the rates of mental health issues
Speaker 2: and suicide for men. American men are three point five
Speaker 2: times more likely to die by suicide than women, and
Speaker 2: men are more likely to delay help if they seek
Speaker 2: it at all, and they typically don't have as strong
Speaker 2: of a support system as women. While self care obviously
Speaker 2: is not going to make these things go away, it
Speaker 2: can be an important part of someone's mental health. But again,
Speaker 2: the Internet seems to indicate that self care for men
Speaker 2: is generally not taken seriously or outright mocked as weakness.
Speaker 2: And of course, again this is kind of that conversation
Speaker 2: of self care has been kind of hijacked by the
Speaker 2: beauty industry, and so therefore that type of level of spae,
Speaker 2: massages and going to salons so feminized that men cannot
Speaker 2: be associated with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we know, even.
Speaker 1: Though they should.
Speaker 3: If you want to do that stuff as a man,
Speaker 3: it should be acceptable.
Speaker 2: Massages are sashes are one.
Speaker 3: I mean, they freak me out on one level, but
Speaker 3: the end.
Speaker 2: Is always endemic.
Speaker 3: Has kind of care yes, yes, it's gonna take a while.
Speaker 2: And then we can talk about the hypersexualization of the
Speaker 2: fact that massages are a double entendre right when it
Speaker 2: comes to referencing for men. So that's a whole other conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that I hate just to put that out there. And
Speaker 2: when self care does exist, it's often hyper masculinized, even
Speaker 2: in proponents of it use a lot of words like
Speaker 2: manly and masculine and all those stupid words.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I read several of these articles that had a
Speaker 1: lot of uses of manly and masculine, and this really
Speaker 1: is I think it's easy to dismiss, but this really
Speaker 1: is a huge part of what we're talking about when
Speaker 1: we're talking about like toxic masculinity and mental health, and
Speaker 1: it has it ripples out and touches all kinds of things.
Speaker 1: But there was a part of me that was almost like,
Speaker 1: I this feels like the weakness to me that someone
Speaker 1: has to pander to you and be like, hey, manly man,
Speaker 1: and you'll still be a manly man if you like
Speaker 1: do this thing, and I'm not like I don't there's
Speaker 1: not a weakness there of like recognizing you need to
Speaker 1: take care of yourself. Right, and I get why these
Speaker 1: articles are doing that, but it just feels very sad
Speaker 1: that this is the point that we're at, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, and then when we talk about self care,
Speaker 2: a lot of it is done in isolation. Yeah, and then,
Speaker 2: as we were saying previously about how oftentimes they don't
Speaker 2: have support system. When we see people talking about self
Speaker 2: care for men, whether it is having a step of scotch,
Speaker 2: sitting by yourself in your lounge share looking out the window, like,
Speaker 2: that's the idea of self care. And that's not always
Speaker 2: the most healthy either, the whole like the private den,
Speaker 2: the man cake, it's all very isolating, and to have
Speaker 2: time with men is to be with the boys, but
Speaker 2: that's not necessarily for self care. Once again, and so
Speaker 2: it's kind of that question of why are we so
Speaker 2: determined to isolate men as well as to look down
Speaker 2: on women when they do need support, When everyone needs support.
Speaker 2: We know this, we know this live, yes.
Speaker 3: And I do. I didn't want to put in here.
Speaker 1: America is not the only place, by any means where
Speaker 1: this ideology exists, and because of the pervasive attitude, there
Speaker 1: are frequently more crisis resources available to women. Right before
Speaker 1: we recorded this I found a really fascinating and upsetting
Speaker 1: article from Australia about a very similar thing of high
Speaker 1: rates of suicide among men but not a lot of
Speaker 1: resources dedicated to giving them help. So that's another issue,
Speaker 1: like on a even a governmental level. And when you
Speaker 1: think of in the past of men being breadwinners and
Speaker 1: that idea of like the scott the mad Men, you know,
Speaker 1: it's almost sexy that you are alone with your Scotch
Speaker 1: in a dim lighting why your family is like you
Speaker 1: just exactly so if you look at that idea when
Speaker 1: being a man basically meant working all the time and
Speaker 1: not really making time for your family, self care doesn't
Speaker 1: fit into that.
Speaker 3: It's anathetical to that whole idea.
Speaker 1: And we've talked about that on the show about particularly
Speaker 1: here in the United States, the idea of a workaholic
Speaker 1: and how it's in fact been painted.
Speaker 3: It's such a good thing when it is unhealthy.
Speaker 1: And obviously times have changed from like the mad Men era,
Speaker 1: but a lot of that toxic cultural stuff is still
Speaker 1: baked in there. We haven't gotten rid of it. So
Speaker 1: that's a part of this whole conversation. I did see
Speaker 1: when I was researching this some sites calling for men
Speaker 1: to prioritize self care, but.
Speaker 3: They did it.
Speaker 1: A lot of them did it by blaming women for
Speaker 1: feminizing the space. Basically that because women and female influencers
Speaker 1: that they got a lot of blame dominate in quote
Speaker 1: self care, they've kept men out and that men need
Speaker 1: to get in and take it over, which is wild
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: A lot of they can't coexist, like no in any
Speaker 2: way right, so it has to be us versus them,
Speaker 2: and it literally becomes the whole man's playing situation of no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: let me show you how we're going to do it,
Speaker 2: and this is how we're going to do it, and
Speaker 2: it's our space. Don't touch it. Yeah, how Darius? And
Speaker 2: maybe they can talk about that being with like video
Speaker 2: gaming or any of that and being like it used
Speaker 2: to be comfortable. Now women are doing it too, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, what, I know, where is this divide that
Speaker 2: it has to be one or the other? I don't understand.
Speaker 2: Of course, we also have a lot of pushback with
Speaker 2: the whole We're losing our masculinity, we're losing real men,
Speaker 2: So we have to claim the space in a different
Speaker 2: manner to take back what is out right which is
Speaker 2: any attention. I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that whole perceived loss of power and and
Speaker 1: we've talked about that before too, of the kind of
Speaker 1: feminization of the Democratic Party in our country and the
Speaker 1: masculinization of the Republican Party and the Republican Party very
Speaker 1: much being like no snowflakes, while at the same time
Speaker 1: being extremely sensitive, uh, cancel culture.
Speaker 3: That's a different thing I did.
Speaker 1: I was reminded of that Gillette commercial where they were like, dudes,
Speaker 1: it's not cool to mistreat women, which you can argue
Speaker 1: back and forth about when companies do that the benefits
Speaker 1: in the town sides.
Speaker 3: But people were so upset about, like, how damn you
Speaker 3: tell men we can't mistreat women?
Speaker 2: Ridiculous anyway, that's I don't remember that commercial. Oh God,
Speaker 2: remember this commercial.
Speaker 3: It came out I think.
Speaker 1: It's the twenty nineteen Super Bowl, and it was just
Speaker 1: a you know, commercial about like it's not cool to
Speaker 1: make these comments to women or a cat callar you know,
Speaker 1: sexually assault someone not cool, and people freaked out about it.
Speaker 2: God damn, you say I can't assault someone.
Speaker 3: This is very like loose memory.
Speaker 1: So if people are like, actually it was about this
Speaker 1: I just I just remember that what we're talking about
Speaker 1: has tried to been tackled in age let commercial, and
Speaker 1: so that's where we're at.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, speaking of commercials, obviously we see this in
Speaker 2: beauty hygiene projects a lot. Usually a big yeah. It's
Speaker 2: a big muscular dude selling this idea and that he
Speaker 2: uses X y Z product and he is the doodliest
Speaker 2: of dudes, usually in a humorous manner. Of course. I
Speaker 2: think the yoga commercial comes to mind. I'm like, what,
Speaker 2: And then the food. Everything has to be bigger portions
Speaker 2: or bigger sizes for the hungry. Okay, cool, cool cool.
Speaker 2: We talked about the old spice and I'm still trying
Speaker 2: to figure out what's happening there. They're not letting that go,
Speaker 2: and we know AX try to turn it a little bit.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's worked well for them. Has
Speaker 2: it worked well?
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about, but knowing them,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say no. But that's a very acts.
Speaker 2: Try to be all like, I'm a sensitive dude. This
Speaker 2: is the smell I have. I think maybe I'm thinking
Speaker 2: about this wrong. It's been a lot of time since
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of commercials. My favorite is want
Speaker 2: there it is. That's my favorite. I like the dessert commercials.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you.
Speaker 2: I still bought to that. And then there are some
Speaker 2: areas traditionally viewed as self care that men do tape
Speaker 2: part in, especially when it comes to physical looks. Everybody
Speaker 2: loves a good trim beard. We know this. However, this
Speaker 2: is frequently more to me the standard and less about
Speaker 2: taking care of themselves, you know, maybe being mocked constantly.
Speaker 2: Like the whole level of metrosexual came out and everybody
Speaker 2: was very either into it or not do into it.
Speaker 2: So the lumberjack sexual came in as well, which is
Speaker 2: kind of along those same lines. I just find that funny.
Speaker 2: Do we have that for women?
Speaker 3: What metrosexual level?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I don't think we do.
Speaker 1: It might be worth investigating whole episode on. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think we do. I think you are either. It's
Speaker 1: like the flip of I guess being slightly more masculine.
Speaker 3: I don't know, right.
Speaker 2: I think that's the whole level of needing to identify
Speaker 2: men as manly or not their sexuality, that we have
Speaker 2: to know their sexuality, whether or not is benefits for
Speaker 2: whatever reason. Whether so if he's introsexual, that means he's
Speaker 2: heterosexual but has style right in that sense, So we
Speaker 2: have to know, okay, okay, just because he has style
Speaker 2: doesn't mean he's gay. We must classify this, which is
Speaker 2: a whole level of homophobia in the yeah, that we
Speaker 2: could talk about, which again kind of goes down to
Speaker 2: this whole gender idea that we have to label it
Speaker 2: and make sure we know that something is masculine in
Speaker 2: order to prove manliness. Yep, and at the detriment and
Speaker 2: the health of everyone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's definitely a layer of homophobia involved in all
Speaker 3: of this.
Speaker 1: Despite all this native stuff, men's self care market it
Speaker 1: is growing. According to Allied Market Research projects, it will
Speaker 1: be worth one hundred and twenty two million dollars by
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. That's not necessarily a good thing, but
Speaker 1: I guess it shows that at least companies they're making
Speaker 1: movements in those areas capitalism, capitalism. Indeed, we didn't want
Speaker 1: to talk about self care and women for a little
Speaker 1: bit as well. But first we're going to pause for
Speaker 1: one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
Speaker 1: and we're back.
Speaker 3: Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 1: So a lot of people have written and spoken about
Speaker 1: self care when it comes to women, us included, but
Speaker 1: we did want to talk about it a little bit.
Speaker 1: Over at Huffington Post, Lindsay Holmes wrote, self care shouldn't
Speaker 1: be reduced to a fleeting activity or dispensable product. It
Speaker 1: shouldn't even just be considered a wellness phenomenon for women.
Speaker 1: It's a difficult but necessary act that helps us survive
Speaker 1: in a world with work demands, family pressures, duties at home,
Speaker 1: rampant incidents of sexual harassment, a relentless news cycle, financial worries,
Speaker 1: and more. Inner reflection takes time and energy resources we're
Speaker 1: already lacking.
Speaker 3: Self care is hard work.
Speaker 1: I wanted to include that quote because I think people
Speaker 1: forget when we're thinking, oh, it's this selfish, indulgent woman.
Speaker 1: It is hard work, and it's something that you have
Speaker 1: to prioritize and take the time for, which in itself
Speaker 1: can be difficult when you do have all of these
Speaker 1: things that she listed in more. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people do view it as sort of a hippie
Speaker 1: dippy wellness phenomenon, and absolutely companies have capitalized on that,
Speaker 1: and some people do treat it that way, But at
Speaker 1: its core, that's not what it is and that's not
Speaker 1: what it should be. Right Religiously, it was a whole command.
Speaker 1: It was a whole day.
Speaker 2: Whether we're looking at traditional Jewish cultures and or just
Speaker 2: Western Christian ideas that Sunday is Sabbath. You know, people
Speaker 2: get very upset about this sometimes, and some people don't
Speaker 2: take it seriously at all, however you want to say it.
Speaker 2: My parents got upset when alcohol sales happen on Sunday
Speaker 2: and they're like, what's the world's going to But it
Speaker 2: was a religious thing and it's somehow changed for a
Speaker 2: lot of the cultures. And not that you have to
Speaker 2: do it. You have to set a date. It shouldn't
Speaker 2: be a command by an overlord, essentially, for the lack
Speaker 2: of better words, But it was there for a reason.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and talking about the fact that most of
Speaker 2: the times, for women, this is the first thing to
Speaker 2: go out the window if you have to take something
Speaker 2: off your list, this is it and we know this,
Speaker 2: we know this, which again part of that is if
Speaker 2: we're not doing something, then we're not doing it right,
Speaker 2: and that has this level of guilt. It is this
Speaker 2: idea that productivity is the morality of your life, point blank.
Speaker 2: And a lot of us measure success by productivity, whether
Speaker 2: it's how many hustles you got, how many things are doing?
Speaker 2: What are you've gotten by a certain age, Like I
Speaker 2: still have it in my head that I am not successful.
Speaker 2: I am not adulting because I did not hit these
Speaker 2: markers that you and I talked about so many times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 1: The other day I think it was very fair somebody
Speaker 1: called me an adult, which I am, but I was.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, I mean just listing all the things that
Speaker 2: I haven't done. Yeah, it's one of the first things
Speaker 2: that I do, like, oh no, I haven't done this
Speaker 2: and this and this and that does not and then
Speaker 2: comparing myself to others who are fifteen years younger than me,
Speaker 2: twenty years younger than me, thirty years younger than me
Speaker 2: doing it better, and I'm like, what have I done
Speaker 2: with my life? But I mean that's the kind of
Speaker 2: thing is we define ourselves that way, which is detrimental,
Speaker 2: yes in the end.
Speaker 1: And I you know, back to good old capitalism. I
Speaker 1: think there's a big part of it actually is that
Speaker 1: idea of the workaholic and that that's somehow a good thing,
Speaker 1: and that is what you measure success by. And then
Speaker 1: on top of that this idea, especially in the United States,
Speaker 1: that if you hustle hard enough, you will succeed no
Speaker 1: matter what obstacles, systemic obstacles.
Speaker 3: Are in your way.
Speaker 1: And in that way, you're blaming yourself, well whether you
Speaker 1: know it or not, for issues that are really beyond
Speaker 1: your control.
Speaker 2: And others blame others. They can't understand the systemic level
Speaker 2: of why it can't be like this.
Speaker 3: So it's like.
Speaker 2: Cautionary tales like early Bird Get the worms. All this
Speaker 2: bs has really been ingrained into our heads that we're
Speaker 2: not successful if we do not follow these things and
Speaker 2: have all of our savings and all of these things
Speaker 2: saved away so that we can enjoy the easy, relaxed life,
Speaker 2: which is very quickly disappearing for a lot of our generations,
Speaker 2: that whole level of social security, we know, that financial
Speaker 2: stability that doesn't exist where we talk about no living wages.
Speaker 2: Starting as a freshly graduated college student with some loans
Speaker 2: under my belt because my parents could not it's not
Speaker 2: one of those that had everything saved away from me,
Speaker 2: so I had to pay everything as best as I
Speaker 2: could and that included some loans, including the fact that
Speaker 2: I had to live on campus, all of those to say,
Speaker 2: and then going to a job that only paid me
Speaker 2: twenty five thousand a year to live by myself, to
Speaker 2: take care of myself for the first time ever. And
Speaker 2: that doesn't include the fact that they took away money
Speaker 2: for insurance. They take away money for all of these
Speaker 2: benefits that I did not understand, you know, like all
Speaker 2: of these things. And to the fact that we are
Speaker 2: supposed to pretend like we know what we're doing. And
Speaker 2: then realizing that my loans went from this to twenty
Speaker 2: times that because of something that was out of my controls,
Speaker 2: Like what the hell just happened? This became more than
Speaker 2: my tuition for the four years, right, And to say, oh,
Speaker 2: but you should have done it better, you should have
Speaker 2: planned ahead. How do you tell a nineteen twenty two
Speaker 2: year old to plan ahead?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you know, we that's a whole separate conversation,
Speaker 1: but we really don't train people for that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: like young people, and then we're like surprised when they
Speaker 1: don't know what to do, Like, okay, you're expecting this
Speaker 1: eighteen year old to make the wise financial decisions.
Speaker 2: Great, But that's the thing is that that means you
Speaker 2: have failed because you are not to this level. But
Speaker 2: you better not take care of yourself. Yeah, because you
Speaker 2: will never get to that level.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think part of that too, which we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about a little bit in a second, is
Speaker 1: self esteem related. Like part of self care is you
Speaker 1: have to say you're worth the self care, right, And
Speaker 1: I think that's hard for a lot of people, and
Speaker 1: I think especially marginalized folks. If you are living in
Speaker 1: a country that has these systems in place, are just
Speaker 1: social events that remind you that you're not valued as
Speaker 1: much as say, straight white guy, it can be hard
Speaker 1: to tell yourself like, no, I am and I deserve
Speaker 1: to take this time. And just because I didn't understand
Speaker 1: a very complicated financial system at the age of eighteen
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I don't deserve these things.
Speaker 2: I still don't understand.
Speaker 1: And Yeah, Since domestic work is still taken on more
Speaker 1: by women, and studies show women have less leisure time
Speaker 1: men by about three times, it can be harder for
Speaker 1: women to carve out this time to take care of themselves,
Speaker 1: and perhaps doing so comes with increased guilts and there
Speaker 1: is a difference, which I do want to say here,
Speaker 1: between meeting basic needs and self care.
Speaker 3: So if you're saying.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, I've carved out the time to get enough
Speaker 1: sleep tonight, that's great, that's not really self care.
Speaker 3: It can be.
Speaker 1: But like if you're talking about a very that's just
Speaker 1: your norm is you don't get enough sleep, that's not
Speaker 1: really a self care.
Speaker 3: That's a basic need that you're not meeting.
Speaker 1: And around the world, women don't have access to health
Speaker 1: care at the same rates as men, which does impact
Speaker 1: self care.
Speaker 3: So that is another part of this conversation.
Speaker 2: Right, and we know the pandemic alone has affected that immensely, immensely.
Speaker 2: Even though again we've talked about the fact that you know,
Speaker 2: we're at home, it's okay, we're we can do this constantly.
Speaker 2: That's not true. We know this. We already talked about
Speaker 2: again mentioning how the fact that majority of the household
Speaker 2: work falls on women in general, as well as the
Speaker 2: stress of being quarantined and stress of living in a
Speaker 2: pandemic world causes a lot of that. And then when
Speaker 2: you can't escape, so when your usual methods of escaping,
Speaker 2: such as exercising with wherever you go to exercise and
Speaker 2: or traveling, or even just being able to walk out
Speaker 2: the door, that is highly affected as well. Again, we
Speaker 2: talked about the fact that a lot of the money
Speaker 2: that was slowly going towards women to help with care
Speaker 2: has disappeared because other issues have come rise and we
Speaker 2: know that when it comes down to it, it's secondary
Speaker 2: for women to get the care that they need. Yes,
Speaker 2: around the world, that's a whole different conversation. And recognizing
Speaker 2: that you, again as any said, that you actually are
Speaker 2: worth that, that you are worth the time to run
Speaker 2: away from your family for two hours. Maybe I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's okay, I mean I think for me, and this
Speaker 2: is very very general. We went to your beach house
Speaker 2: and I have not been so excited. And it was
Speaker 2: like six seven, eight months after quarantine began.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we were I think we went. It was
Speaker 1: Dragon Gone weekend, Labor day.
Speaker 2: And it started in Mark and I hadn't left and
Speaker 2: I was losing it. I was losing it. And just
Speaker 2: being able to be in a car to drive somewhere
Speaker 2: was such a phenomenon at that moment that the minute
Speaker 2: we got in the car and we started driving and
Speaker 2: like realizing we were on a trip, pulled something from
Speaker 2: me that was it so like to me, like stuff
Speaker 2: like that, being like, oh wow, being so scared, and
Speaker 2: you and I talked about this. We are so scared,
Speaker 2: especially as podcasters, as people who are sort of you know, seen.
Speaker 2: I guess this is the best way to put it.
Speaker 2: We're so scared of saying the wrong things, or doing
Speaker 2: the wrong things, or being hypocritical and being really cautious
Speaker 2: because of course we don't want to talk about that
Speaker 2: was a privilege. Had I not known you, I would
Speaker 2: have never been able to do that and felt like
Speaker 2: a privilege. It was amazing and doing things like that
Speaker 2: is a privilege. But that's the other part to that
Speaker 2: is like I don't feel like I can because I
Speaker 2: know other people are suffering, So why am I allowed
Speaker 2: to do this? And that again that builds onto that
Speaker 2: self worth and again being a basically the whole different level.
Speaker 2: You should be able to have that, and it's absurd
Speaker 2: that we don't. Being able to be on a living wage,
Speaker 2: you should be able to have that, especially when you
Speaker 2: work your ass off trying to provide for your people
Speaker 2: that you love. End of story. But things like that
Speaker 2: like the traveling that I got to do for the
Speaker 2: first time in eight months was such a glorious moment
Speaker 2: that felt like self care, but felt so guilty that
Speaker 2: I was doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've thought about that a lot lately because I
Speaker 1: think a lot of women do this, a lot of
Speaker 1: marginalized people do this. But I do that a lot
Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, is it worth I don't have
Speaker 1: it as bad as this person or whoever, so I'm
Speaker 1: just being a big baby.
Speaker 3: Or whatever it is like because I don't have it
Speaker 3: as bad.
Speaker 1: And I think that is a part of what holds
Speaker 1: people back when it comes to self care, is that
Speaker 1: guilt around that whole idea. And when we're talking about
Speaker 1: social media as part of this, it has been a
Speaker 1: great space for normalizing self care. But if it becomes
Speaker 1: competitive or performative, that's defeating the purpose, and a lot
Speaker 1: of self care can get caught up in reinforcing tropes
Speaker 1: around beauty and weights that. Going back to what I
Speaker 1: was saying at the beginning about pinterest, to me, that's
Speaker 1: what a lot of pinterest is is people kind of
Speaker 1: showing off that there because they eat this, and they
Speaker 1: exercise this much, these this is how they look in
Speaker 1: these the clothes they can wear, and that can be healthy.
Speaker 1: But if you turn it, it's so like a fine line.
Speaker 1: And that's a problem I have a lot is I
Speaker 1: turn it into something that is not self care anymore.
Speaker 1: It is like a competiti And speaking of that, I
Speaker 1: think there's a hijacking of self care to you in
Speaker 1: this self help productivity workspace that's basically selling it as
Speaker 1: a tool to do more work, which it does help productivity,
Speaker 1: but it's not about that. It's not about doing more
Speaker 1: work necessarily, and it's not some magical way to become
Speaker 1: a CEO.
Speaker 3: If you're like good, if you really crush it when
Speaker 3: it comes to self care, it's not that's not what one.
Speaker 2: Look. I admire and respect the people who are on
Speaker 2: here talking about their fitness and getting these workouts and
Speaker 2: then having the whole why aren't you doing it? That
Speaker 2: makes me want to throw my phone across the room.
Speaker 2: Ye tell you that? Like I see that constantly, and
Speaker 2: I want to be like because I'm depressed and my
Speaker 2: anxiety is really high, and all I really want to
Speaker 2: do is curl up in a fetal position under my
Speaker 2: blanket while my dog sits on top of me until
Speaker 2: I suffocate. I mean, that's some of the level that
Speaker 2: I'm at. But the thing is, if it's for them,
Speaker 2: that's great. But to turn it around and accuse people
Speaker 2: of not being able to hit your mark is really damaging.
Speaker 2: And when you do that as a way of getting
Speaker 2: likes or getting promotions, what promotional benefits from other companies,
Speaker 2: that's damaging. And what you're doing is causing more harm
Speaker 2: than anything else. And I say you, I'm just saying
Speaker 2: the general in all aspects, because let's be honest, this year,
Speaker 2: it's been a year of collective trauma. I want to
Speaker 2: talk about this later. It could be a whole other
Speaker 2: episode about women in collective trauma, especially in the marginalized communities,
Speaker 2: and we're going to talk a little more about the
Speaker 2: intersections of this. But the level of trauma that has
Speaker 2: happened this year, the fact that anyone got up, congratulations.
Speaker 2: There's a debate about drinking water. It's absurd. If you're
Speaker 2: doing it, wonderful. If you're not, you do you be healthy? Though?
Speaker 2: Be healthy? And again, we have to recognize how self
Speaker 2: care looks different for people of color and for the
Speaker 2: LGBTQ community or any other marginalized groups. Let's be honest. Politically,
Speaker 2: what we've been seeing is horrible, and I think we're
Speaker 2: coming through the upswing, but the constant back and forth,
Speaker 2: the constant back and forth, it's traumatizing. I maybe it's
Speaker 2: because I've been so focused and been so isolated that
Speaker 2: that's all I focus on. But these past few years
Speaker 2: feel disgusting, whether it's I've lost friendships, I've lost family members,
Speaker 2: I've lost trust in people, like there's so much that
Speaker 2: we have to talk about, and we have talked about,
Speaker 2: and we continue to talk about, and then we put
Speaker 2: on people's shoulders to explain it's been a hard damn
Speaker 2: year period and self care may just mean I'm not
Speaker 2: going to talk to you today, i might not see
Speaker 2: my family for a year. I'm okay. Things like that
Speaker 2: have happened. And then the amount of death and the
Speaker 2: amount of heartache that we've seen on a consistent basis,
Speaker 2: and maybe it's just because we're seeing it for the
Speaker 2: first time, also because our administration allowed millions of people
Speaker 2: to die. All of those things way, So when we
Speaker 2: talk about what's happening in the marginalized communities, when we
Speaker 2: look at all of the politics that are happening even
Speaker 2: today with the trans community, LGBTQ plus community. I just
Speaker 2: saw a new law allowing for organizations to discriminate against
Speaker 2: the LGBTQ plus community to allowing them to be part
Speaker 2: of the group. I see consistently the bills that are
Speaker 2: trying to block that community from adopting, which I have
Speaker 2: a lot of feels on. We know this, We consistently
Speaker 2: see the bills, the injustice that has happened on all
Speaker 2: of the levels, MATS shootings, just this freaking week alone
Speaker 2: has made me want to vomit. This last month has
Speaker 2: been awful. So when we talk about self care, it
Speaker 2: may just very well be I don't want to talk
Speaker 2: to anyone in the story and that's okay. So to
Speaker 2: try to place this whole line of buy this, do this,
Speaker 2: be this is damaging in itself. I'm done.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And when I was researching this, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of resources out there for that are for specific marginalized groups.
Speaker 3: And what I was reading from people who.
Speaker 1: Were writing about it, and they were talking about the
Speaker 1: value of community support and camaraderie and finding those things.
Speaker 1: So certainly, if you need those resources there out there
Speaker 1: also much bigger conversation, but the whole mass shooting thing,
Speaker 1: like some of that is what we're talking about here
Speaker 1: with men can't get mental health care.
Speaker 3: Much bigger conversation.
Speaker 1: We also need to talk about accessive and cost here
Speaker 1: because of course, when companies got involved, prices went up
Speaker 1: for things items that have been in this self care space,
Speaker 1: like like skincare, beauty. It can get really pricey, especially
Speaker 1: when celebrities and influencers get involved, which more and more
Speaker 1: male celebrities have been getting involved in this. I noticed
Speaker 1: not an option for everyone and may turn people off
Speaker 1: who otherwise would participate in self care. That's what they're seeing,
Speaker 1: that's what they think it is. Again, beauty does not
Speaker 1: a self care make this in a lot of things,
Speaker 1: but for a lot of people that is I have
Speaker 1: friends or that is their thing of like doing the
Speaker 1: facial and just relaxing, or if we talk about physical
Speaker 1: activities that aren't possible or comfortable for everyone for variety
Speaker 1: of reasons. Just keeping those things in mind too of
Speaker 1: accessibility and yeah, of course there are predatory products out
Speaker 1: there marketed as self care that are like guaranteed to.
Speaker 3: Get rid of your eyebags or whatever. It is. That's not.
Speaker 1: My friend calls them baggies.
Speaker 2: I bag these, I bag ease. I love it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And for those who have been able to be successful
Speaker 2: and maybe publish a book or do some things we kindle, friendships, whatever,
Speaker 2: that's phenomenal too, and you should be allowed to celebrate.
Speaker 2: That's the other part again, is that guilt level. Don't
Speaker 2: point out people and say you're not doing this like me.
Speaker 2: Don't do that. Let's just say that, but celebrate what
Speaker 2: you have been able to do. Celebrate the good things
Speaker 2: in your life. I mean, I do celebrate the fact
Speaker 2: that I am able to do this instead of being
Speaker 2: in the world, which for my old co workers who
Speaker 2: are continually seeing trauma on the outside and then continually
Speaker 2: dealing with trauma in their workspace, that's a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm very grateful that I am in this space
Speaker 2: where I can process it in a different manner now.
Speaker 2: But it's not lost on me that people are doing
Speaker 2: these jobs and people are doing these things. People are
Speaker 2: doing this work, and it's important that we allow for
Speaker 2: them to celebrate the things that they have been able
Speaker 2: to accomplish. I just remember one of my biggest things
Speaker 2: being in that field just constantly thing I just need
Speaker 2: one small victory, like crying about it and how big
Speaker 2: of a deal it was, whether it's to know that
Speaker 2: I helped a kid rehabilitate and get off of probation
Speaker 2: in general, like I was able to be like, we're
Speaker 2: going to work this out, We're going to do these
Speaker 2: things together in the story or hooking them up and
Speaker 2: able to get them an internship, to be able to
Speaker 2: make money like stuff like that is phenomenal. We're not
Speaker 2: going to talk about the incarceration system, which I have
Speaker 2: a lot of guilt about in general. But the thing
Speaker 2: is there's a collective amount of trauma that is happening,
Speaker 2: and we need to be able to celebrate the things
Speaker 2: that can be celebrated and for those who have you know,
Speaker 2: children in their lives who were able to have babies
Speaker 2: and are living in a place of health, and that
Speaker 2: those who are seeing someone for the first time, that's
Speaker 2: that's wonderful. Congratulations and we celeb write.
Speaker 3: That with you. Yeah, yeah, that's it. I'm glad you
Speaker 3: said that, because I do.
Speaker 1: I think that is another aspect of this as people
Speaker 1: feel like they can't share happy things right now. I
Speaker 1: know I don't That's why I'm like not on a
Speaker 1: social media hardly ever anymore. I don't want to post
Speaker 1: some of that stuff, but I can't post it the
Speaker 1: world is on fire.
Speaker 2: I like self deprecating stuff, like when I tripped and
Speaker 2: trusted my ankle in a living room. But for those
Speaker 2: who are asking, how, yeah, how do we even go
Speaker 2: down this road? Or should we even go down this route?
Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this and thinking I need
Speaker 2: to start doing this, you don't have to. But if
Speaker 2: you want to, or maybe like I need to do better,
Speaker 2: how to go about that? Again, you're better stepping from
Speaker 2: everybody else's just be healthy. So here are some tipsy.
Speaker 2: Choose an activity or activities you enjoy or that relaxes you,
Speaker 2: such as playing fiends and trying to beat your coworkers
Speaker 2: like Lauren who has yet to reply to my banter.
Speaker 2: If that makes you feel better, then do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So yeah, get some activities that you like that are healthy,
Speaker 4: and then narrow it down to one at first that
Speaker 4: you want to start putting into your daily routine.
Speaker 1: So here we're talking more about incorporating it more regularly
Speaker 1: as opposed to that sort of one time event. Then yeah,
Speaker 1: try implementing it every day for a week. After that
Speaker 1: week's done, think about how you feel about it, repeat
Speaker 1: with another activity, switch out activities, or just reflect on
Speaker 1: how you want to go about it and if it
Speaker 1: worked for you and why it did or didn't work
Speaker 1: for you, and if.
Speaker 2: It didn't, it's okay, it is moving on.
Speaker 3: It is okay.
Speaker 1: And speaking of I did want to briefly talk about
Speaker 1: this because I, like I said, I'm really bad at it.
Speaker 1: And I was working on this outline the day after
Speaker 1: I got my second dose of the vaccine and I
Speaker 1: ended up getting having a pretty severe reaction, i will say.
Speaker 3: And I was.
Speaker 1: In bed and I was shaking so hard that the
Speaker 1: bed frame was rattling, and I was sweating.
Speaker 3: It looked like I had gone swimming, and I.
Speaker 1: Was so cold, and I felt so bad, and I
Speaker 1: was typing like women.
Speaker 3: Made to do better itself, not that, but essentially, like
Speaker 3: how can women be better at self care?
Speaker 1: And then I was working away and Lauren, my coworker
Speaker 1: and friend, she texted me and said stop working. And
Speaker 1: then she sent an email out to like everybody I
Speaker 1: was supposed to work with that day to record and
Speaker 1: she said, we're not recording.
Speaker 3: She's good, and then you showed up. You were so
Speaker 3: kind and you bought me fun. But I felt guilty
Speaker 3: about it because I was.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, no, I I know you wouldn't let me
Speaker 2: like I'm doing it. Damn it fine, I'm fine. This
Speaker 2: is part of myself here. We've talked about this before,
Speaker 2: like for people like me, I love doing things like that,
Speaker 2: so I have to do it. So let me do it,
Speaker 2: Let me do it.
Speaker 1: I kept being like no, no, no, And then I did
Speaker 1: have the thing where I was like so proud of myself,
Speaker 1: which is very unhealthy because I was like, wow, I.
Speaker 3: Feel terrible, but look at how much work I'm doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I did nothing. I did nothing. We purposely
Speaker 2: didn't record. We changed the date, and I was like,
Speaker 2: you know what, this is going to be a rough
Speaker 2: one for I don't know, maybe it could be a
Speaker 2: rough one. I've seen stories, and of course my reaction
Speaker 2: because we ended up getting our shots at the same day,
Speaker 2: they were very different, like I was nowhere year as
Speaker 2: bad as you were. We had. I had this little
Speaker 2: bit of chills and enough fever, but that was quickly gone.
Speaker 2: But I was like, I'm just going to check in
Speaker 2: on her, make sure she's alive. But we're not talking
Speaker 2: about work. And I purposely did not ask about work.
Speaker 2: And we did bring some noodles for you, because you know,
Speaker 2: this is all about getting together. And that's the other
Speaker 2: part to this is you have to recognize when your
Speaker 2: body is telling you something. Yeah, because it's telling you
Speaker 2: something for a reason. Yeah, And that was, hey, stop it,
Speaker 2: go to bed, damn it.
Speaker 3: It's surprisingly difficult to do that.
Speaker 1: I feel like as women, we are especially I can
Speaker 1: just speak. In my case, I have distanced myself so
Speaker 1: much from my body that it's I can't basic things
Speaker 1: like sleepy.
Speaker 3: And hunger, and I don't. I'm working on that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I on the other hand, I do recognize it, but
Speaker 2: it's according to what I have to do. And if
Speaker 2: there's just like I felt guilty because I have a
Speaker 2: feeling you were working and so I didn't know what
Speaker 2: else to do. But I'm like, yeah, but I'm sleepy
Speaker 2: and i'm tired, and we can do this later. If
Speaker 2: I do things, I don't want to just laid back out.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm done, I'm good. I will do that.
Speaker 2: But there are days that I'm like I have to
Speaker 2: do more. If it came down to helping someone else,
Speaker 2: then yeah, I will do it. But if it comes
Speaker 2: down to it's just me, I'm not gonna die.
Speaker 3: So you and I clearly have work to do as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, listeners, I have better at it, and like the
Speaker 1: fan FicT, writing fan fiction is something I do hiking
Speaker 1: whenever we can go, when I can go back out
Speaker 1: comfortably because I know I could have always, but I
Speaker 1: was never comfortable. That is a big one for me.
Speaker 1: So it is something that I have been mindful of
Speaker 1: and have been trying to be better at.
Speaker 3: But yes, long ways ago.
Speaker 1: Still well, listeners, we would love to hear about your
Speaker 1: self care.
Speaker 3: What do you do or are you any good at it?
Speaker 3: Are you terrible at it?
Speaker 1: You can email us our emails Stuff Media mom Stuff
Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've
Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks It's always to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 1: Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening Stuff
Speaker 1: I Never Told You. Propection I Heart Radio for more
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visits I Heartrado app Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or I may listen to your favorite show speaking
Speaker 2: Yeah,