Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, Welcome. This is Let's talk about MIT's Baby,
Speaker 1: and I am your host, live here with part two
Speaker 1: of the Q and A episode. And frankly, I'm not
Speaker 1: even gonna fuck with an introduction this time because there
Speaker 1: are so many questions and I want to get to
Speaker 1: as many as possible, so we're just going to jump
Speaker 1: right in, all right. So I had a couple of
Speaker 1: questions that were from back in August, actually basically the
Speaker 1: last time after i'd closed the last Q and A.
Speaker 1: But they're both kind of about visiting Greece. So I thought,
Speaker 1: what a good way to start out this episode. So
Speaker 1: Penelope asked, what's your dream mythology inspired itinerary for Greece?
Speaker 1: Any sites in the mainland that you haven't visited but
Speaker 1: feel or must see. So Penelope one great name. I
Speaker 1: actually have a number of friends who have named their
Speaker 1: children Penelope. Plus, you know, we got the Odyssey. There's
Speaker 1: just so much happening there. Well done, dream itinerary, So
Speaker 1: I thought this was a good time to kind of
Speaker 1: bring up you know, it is already closed for this year,
Speaker 1: but I am doing the first ever like official Myths
Speaker 1: Baby group trip to Greece, which is just so utterly wild,
Speaker 1: but if it goes smoothly, I hope to do this
Speaker 1: more often. And we set up a really incredible itinerary that,
Speaker 1: honestly I think serves as a really great like, if
Speaker 1: you want to squish in as many ancient sites as possible,
Speaker 1: you know, in and around close enough to Athens that
Speaker 1: it's doable. This is a Gret itinerary, so I thought
Speaker 1: i'd share it with you all in case you just
Speaker 1: want to like do it on your own. So basically
Speaker 1: every flight, you know, unless you're coming from within Europe
Speaker 1: or even better within Greece, everything is going to just
Speaker 1: land in Athens. That's where you land. Obviously. Also you
Speaker 1: want to see Athens because the ruins in Athens are amazing.
Speaker 1: You know, we've got there's so much Greek ruins to see,
Speaker 1: but there's also a lot from the Roman period which
Speaker 1: is really interesting as well. You get to see some
Speaker 1: architectural differences, like really learn to spot those things. It's
Speaker 1: incredibly fun. So you know, if you are in Athens.
Speaker 1: Actually I'm going to leave the if you're in Athens
Speaker 1: to the next question, so we'll go with beyond Athens,
Speaker 1: because if you're looking at sites generally Okay, so you
Speaker 1: arrive in Athens, great, see everything there, I will get
Speaker 1: into it. Then you can go to Eleusis, or as
Speaker 1: it's called now Elepsis, which is only like forty five
Speaker 1: minutes to an hour I think outside of Athens. It's
Speaker 1: like on the way to most other things that I'm
Speaker 1: going to talk about. So it's a great kind of
Speaker 1: stopping point. Eleusis is fast because the ancient site itself,
Speaker 1: while enormous, is like not well publicized. There's not a
Speaker 1: lot like happening there as far as I could tell.
Speaker 1: I went, not this year but last year. It's really
Speaker 1: interesting and it's really big, but it's sort of just
Speaker 1: like there just being Elusis, which is of course like
Speaker 1: an enormously important ancient site. It was the site of
Speaker 1: the Ellucinian mysteries. It it was huge, and so what
Speaker 1: you can see now is like it's really hard to
Speaker 1: get kind of a grasp when what was there, because
Speaker 1: it's sort of still kind of its kind of seems
Speaker 1: very in progress. The museum at the time was closed.
Speaker 1: That habits with a lot of regional Greek museums, but
Speaker 1: definitely it must visit. And it's really easy because you
Speaker 1: can basically drive like if you rent a car, do
Speaker 1: drive Athens to Eleusis. You go see everything there, like
Speaker 1: I said, modern Elepsis, and then you keep driving. You
Speaker 1: go over, you go like through the mountains there, and
Speaker 1: there's a couple tunnels that are named for people that
Speaker 1: theseus killed on the way to Athens, which is so fun.
Speaker 1: And then you curve down and you go across the
Speaker 1: Isthmus of Corinth, which is incredible, Like the canal at
Speaker 1: Corinth is amazing. Take a look at that. And then
Speaker 1: you can go visit Corinth, which I have not been
Speaker 1: had the time to visit Corinth unfortunately, but I know
Speaker 1: there are a little bit of a couple of ancient
Speaker 1: sites there. But if you go further south, then you
Speaker 1: can get to Epidavros, which is where there is the
Speaker 1: modern theater that is the best preserved theater in Greece.
Speaker 1: It's not sorry, it's an ancient theater, but it is
Speaker 1: best preserved and it is still in use today. If
Speaker 1: you go in July and August, they put on Greek plays.
Speaker 1: I have never seen them because I have not been
Speaker 1: able to brave that heat, but one of these days
Speaker 1: I will. But they're performed Epidavros. So not only is
Speaker 1: that theater incredible, but right near the theater, like just
Speaker 1: like in the same general site is the Esclepeon, which
Speaker 1: is this enormous temple complex to Asclepias. If you've played
Speaker 1: Assassin's Creed Odyssey, it's where you go and like ask
Speaker 1: all those questions when you're searching for your mom. But yeah,
Speaker 1: like there's this whole Esclepion. The ruins are pretty incredible
Speaker 1: and it's just sort of like they're hanging out. And
Speaker 1: then also close to that, like within half an hour
Speaker 1: to an hour drive is Myceni. You can visit the
Speaker 1: ancient site of Myceni, which is utterly incredible. It's bronze age,
Speaker 1: it's fucking huge. The Tholos tombs there, the beehive tombs,
Speaker 1: utterly incredible, incredible. There's also a site at Tyrans, which
Speaker 1: I have not been to, but I know they also
Speaker 1: have Tholos tombs. Tireans was also a major archaeological or
Speaker 1: is a major archaeological site, but also like a major
Speaker 1: mythological site. And then just south of there's Nafplio that
Speaker 1: doesn't have much in the way of my kind of
Speaker 1: ancient love, but the museum there is really interesting. They
Speaker 1: have a lot of stuff, but it is mostly I
Speaker 1: think a Byzantine slash Ottoman kind of region. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of history around the Greek War of Independence, which
Speaker 1: is cool, but in terms of ancient stuff not quite
Speaker 1: as much. But it's a great place to stay and
Speaker 1: there's lots of great food, So you can kind of
Speaker 1: do the whole art and Attica and Athens like pretty easily.
Speaker 1: If you have more time, you can drive and you
Speaker 1: can go to Sparta. I don't think there's a ton
Speaker 1: of ruins left to see in Sparta, but it's still
Speaker 1: Sparta Sparti now and Olympia. I would love to see Olympia.
Speaker 1: I haven't gotten as far as that yet, but also
Speaker 1: an enormous ancient site to be visited now. Of course.
Speaker 1: Also you can do a day trip from Athens and
Speaker 1: go to Delphi if you want it. That's about two
Speaker 1: and a half hour drive. I think it's in a
Speaker 1: different direction, so it's trickier. These are all the things
Speaker 1: we're doing on this trip, which is pretty amazing, so
Speaker 1: I'm hoping we can do it again. We are not
Speaker 1: going as far as Olympia and Sparta unfortunately, but we're
Speaker 1: doing that whole argyllid bit and also Delphi because Delphi, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like it's another drivable site. Obviously, Delphi is fucking incredible
Speaker 1: to see. It's absolutely unreal. Another great little drive you
Speaker 1: can do from Athens is to go to the Temple
Speaker 1: of Posidon. It's sun Yon, utterly stunning, like it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful temple generally, but it's also on a cliff overlooking
Speaker 1: the sea. It's fucking beautiful. And if you go there,
Speaker 1: you can also go down into Lavrio, which is one
Speaker 1: of the port towns, and the seafood there, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's amazing. But yeah, so like those are some really
Speaker 1: simple things you can do, you know, if you are
Speaker 1: just generally in that area without having to go too far.
Speaker 1: So that is my kind of that was my dream
Speaker 1: I tinerary just in terms of what is doable. So again,
Speaker 1: hope to make this like a regular thing, but it's
Speaker 1: a really good little itinerary if you are going on
Speaker 1: your own too. Now, if you want to expand, like
Speaker 1: there's just so much Like ideally you would go to Delos.
Speaker 1: It's fucking amazing, but you have to take a ferry
Speaker 1: it's like three hour fairy minimum, so it is trickier.
Speaker 1: But if you're there for a longer time, you know,
Speaker 1: Naxos is amazing. Delos highly recommend and of course there
Speaker 1: is literally so much more. It's endless, But I will
Speaker 1: stick with that for now and move on straight to
Speaker 1: Evan's question, who said, I'm planning a trip for a
Speaker 1: trip to Athens in March, and apart from the usual
Speaker 1: sites and museums, is there anywhere you'd recommend that we
Speaker 1: should definitely go, whether that be cafes or unique places.
Speaker 1: So Athens, I'm gonna go. Off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: I'm sure I could think up more. We'll go with
Speaker 1: some simple stuff again, like if you're in the area,
Speaker 1: one do go to the National Archaeological Museum. It is
Speaker 1: like further if you're just kind of staying around the Acropolis,
Speaker 1: like that's lovely and beautiful. The Acropolis Museum is absolutely
Speaker 1: musty as well. The Archaeological Museum is a little further.
Speaker 1: It's not far, but it's like not easily walkable basically,
Speaker 1: but go see it. Go take a whole day for
Speaker 1: that museum. It is unbelievable, the stuff they have in there.
Speaker 1: It is unreal. It is one of my favorite museums
Speaker 1: in the world. Super underrated because Greek museums don't tend
Speaker 1: to have a lot of money, so there are a
Speaker 1: little like bare bones. You know, that's less true in Athens,
Speaker 1: but but like the stuff that's in there. So go
Speaker 1: to the National Archaeological Museum, no question again, Acropolis Museum
Speaker 1: for sure. The ancient sites. They have this like bulk
Speaker 1: ticket that's the wrong word, but they have this ticket
Speaker 1: that you can buy that's like ten euro more than
Speaker 1: just the Acropolis price, and it gets you into five
Speaker 1: different ancient sites. See all of those. One of tho
Speaker 1: sites that not everybody goes to. It's like you can
Speaker 1: walk it is. Karamicos. Karamacos is amazing. It's an ancient cemetery.
Speaker 1: Go to Karamicos. If you go in September or October,
Speaker 1: often you will see tortoises fucking It's pretty fun. But
Speaker 1: also there's a lot of great ruins and cats. It's
Speaker 1: a whole deal. Absolutely, go to Karamacos. Oh everything, gosh,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's just so much. There is an
Speaker 1: incredible restaurant in the Placa, so again, really touristy area.
Speaker 1: But really good restaurant called to Caffeineo. It does just
Speaker 1: me in the cafe, but the to Cafeeo in the placa,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the food unbelievable. Yeah. Oh and this
Speaker 1: is a great cocktail bar that I love called Hitchcocktails.
Speaker 1: It's like really tucked away. It's by the Acropolis Museum
Speaker 1: again really in the tourist area, but I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: That's my go to's uh for Athens and you know,
Speaker 1: see everything, but do not miss miss the National Archaeology
Speaker 1: Museum and give yourself enough time. It's huge, the stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I could dream of that museum literally forever.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Evan, Oh my god, have so much fun. Okay,
Speaker 1: Next up from Stephanie. As for how the ancient people
Speaker 1: saw their gods. Did they see them as the concept
Speaker 1: of their powers, I e. Zeus and lightning. Every time
Speaker 1: lightning strikes Zeus was the lightning or controlling said lightning?
Speaker 1: Or did they see them as physical humans like able
Speaker 1: to interact with the common people. What makes me think
Speaker 1: that way was the amount of children the gods had
Speaker 1: with the mortals or both or other great question. I
Speaker 1: think the answer is all of the above. Honestly all
Speaker 1: of the above. And I think that's what makes it
Speaker 1: so great, right, so great mythology. It's just like it's
Speaker 1: so many different things. If you are looking at the
Speaker 1: most ancient of sources, it is a lot more of
Speaker 1: the gods representing these like physical concepts, you know, of
Speaker 1: both being the weather, natural phenomena, and also being these
Speaker 1: deities who can be interacting with humans. Again, though that
Speaker 1: is that's much more of like that historical mythological take.
Speaker 1: Like I don't think people living in Athens, you know,
Speaker 1: even as far back as the Archaic period, we're going
Speaker 1: thinking that like they're going to run into a god
Speaker 1: at any time. I don't think that that was a mindset.
Speaker 1: But I do think that they had this kind of
Speaker 1: conceptual idea that there, you know, was this time when
Speaker 1: the gods interacted with humans. That's how all the babies
Speaker 1: came about, you know. Like I think they had this
Speaker 1: kind of conceptual idea of it being a thing, a
Speaker 1: past thing, but I don't think it was like a
Speaker 1: thing they actually worried about. But yeah, light lightning is
Speaker 1: trickier lightning, like he controls them because it's like the
Speaker 1: Cyclops made the lightning bolts kind of thing. You know,
Speaker 1: Poseidon is the earth shaker, he is not the see
Speaker 1: he does control certain things. Like it's very conceptual. It
Speaker 1: also really does change over the time period. So like
Speaker 1: we are talking about a thousand years worth of mythology,
Speaker 1: right and a thousand years worth of people evolving. Think
Speaker 1: about how much the world has evolved in the last
Speaker 1: thousand years thousand years. It's often it's easy to forget
Speaker 1: that because we just think of Greek history and Greek
Speaker 1: mythology as this like thing, this like singular thing, particularly mythology,
Speaker 1: but the mythology too, was evolving over a thousand years.
Speaker 1: That's why when I tell you guys stories sometimes it's like, well,
Speaker 1: this version said this, and this said that, and this
Speaker 1: said that, and it's like, doesn't make any sense. And
Speaker 1: that's simply because, like we are talking a thousand years.
Speaker 1: If I am the difference between reading he see it, Okay,
Speaker 1: he see it, which is, you know, the earliest surviving
Speaker 1: source we have for sort of the beginning of the world,
Speaker 1: all of the gods and their origin story, that's the
Speaker 1: earliest surviving we make. It was probably put to paper
Speaker 1: in the fifth or sixth century BCE. But it is
Speaker 1: probably older than that, or then you jump right to
Speaker 1: say Pseudo Apollodorus, who is another great source for just
Speaker 1: like kind of everything in myth. It was really brief,
Speaker 1: but it kind of covers all of the basics. Now
Speaker 1: Pseudopolydorus is difficult. We call him pseudo because there was
Speaker 1: a time when we believe that he was. This was
Speaker 1: written by somebody named a Polyodorus, who I think then
Speaker 1: they thought he was like second century BCE, and then
Speaker 1: it became clear that like, no, whoever wrote this it
Speaker 1: was probably later wasn't a Polyodorus, but that's the name.
Speaker 1: That's why we call it Pseudo Apollodorus instead, And that
Speaker 1: was probably more like first century CE, I think. So
Speaker 1: we're talking like seven hundred years between him and he Sid,
Speaker 1: right seven hundred years, So you start to think about
Speaker 1: that in terms of any kind of understanding, Like sure,
Speaker 1: when he Seid was around, they probably did have a
Speaker 1: deeper understanding of the gods as like this like physical
Speaker 1: construct in the world, whereas seven hundred years later they're
Speaker 1: probably thinking a bit more spiritually, they're thinking a bit
Speaker 1: more in terms of how we see religion now as
Speaker 1: more of like a little bit less like hands on right,
Speaker 1: and so you just kind of have to imagine, you know,
Speaker 1: how much can change in that amount of time. It's
Speaker 1: utterly fascinating. So yeah, it's a great question. I also
Speaker 1: think truly all of your ideas are right in different ways,
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, Stephanie had a few. We're doing one
Speaker 1: more from Stephanie, but thank you for all of them. So,
Speaker 1: as a member of the LGBTQ community, Sappho plays a
Speaker 1: huge role in how I identify love her or as
Speaker 1: you would say, I love this shit, even have a
Speaker 1: tattoo piece of her. Me too. But are there any
Speaker 1: other surviving fragments or pieces by ancient Greek women poets
Speaker 1: who wrote about women that we know of? Okay, there
Speaker 1: are other Greek women poets I don't know offhand if
Speaker 1: any of them wrote about women, I would say, I mean,
Speaker 1: Sapho is certainly the best surviving. The thing about Sappho
Speaker 1: is she survives a lot because of random luck. A
Speaker 1: lot of the reason why Sappho's fragments are so fragmentary
Speaker 1: is because they were like literally found on like little
Speaker 1: bits of ripped up papyrus that was like reused on
Speaker 1: other things. It's really interesting. But that's all to say that,
Speaker 1: like most of Sappho was not preserved intentionally, which is
Speaker 1: why we don't have a lot from other poets as well.
Speaker 1: So we know there were other female poets, and there
Speaker 1: are other fragments I think that survive. They're just minimal
Speaker 1: compared to Sapo. I don't remember their names off but
Speaker 1: but there's a book called Sappho's Liar by Diane Rayer,
Speaker 1: and it is about Sappho, but it also talks about
Speaker 1: other women poets at the time and sort of what
Speaker 1: we do have that survives, or what we do know
Speaker 1: about the people that existed. So I highly recommend that
Speaker 1: if you want to learn more, there are definitely a handful.
Speaker 1: Safo is still the best example. And again I don't
Speaker 1: know if those women wrote about other women, even Sappho.
Speaker 1: The problem is, like people will love to argue that like, oh,
Speaker 1: when she wrote about women, it's because she wrote the
Speaker 1: poem for a man to give to a woman. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: like give me a break. The like straight washing of
Speaker 1: that is pretty wild. But what that just means is
Speaker 1: that like it is hard for us to have like
Speaker 1: any kind of real grasp on what was happening because
Speaker 1: it has just been straight washed for so long. Do
Speaker 1: I believe Safa was gay? Abso fucking lute? Like I
Speaker 1: think that you know she was. I mean, it's tough
Speaker 1: to say. Like she did write about men too. I
Speaker 1: think she was probably by you know, but absolutely she
Speaker 1: did write about women. That's all to say. That was
Speaker 1: like a not a super helpful answer. But read that
Speaker 1: book if you want to know more. The subtitle of
Speaker 1: it is literally Archaic Love and Women Poets of Ancient Greece.
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly a Yeah, my glasses are on,
Speaker 1: but the book is far enough away that I had
Speaker 1: to make sure. All right, Lauren says, do you ever
Speaker 1: plan on talking about Troyliss and Poleaxana and all the
Speaker 1: other horrific things Achilles did throughout his life? I had
Speaker 1: somebody on to talk about the Shakespeare play about Troylists
Speaker 1: and Cressida. That's not helpful. I don't know enough about
Speaker 1: troy Lists. I feel like all of that is from
Speaker 1: the Fall of Troy source probably I want to ask you,
Speaker 1: but I can't. But yeah, I think all of that survives,
Speaker 1: as far as I know offhand, survives in only the
Speaker 1: Roman source the Fall of Troy, so I just never
Speaker 1: tend to go to that, but I do want to eventually.
Speaker 1: It's just like an enormous fucking epic that is kind
Speaker 1: of hard to get through. But yeah, no, I would
Speaker 1: love to. I want to talk more about the Trojan
Speaker 1: War characters generally, but it is so hard because ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent of what we have from Greece is from
Speaker 1: the Iliad, and like I've done that, the Eliot obviously
Speaker 1: loses out on a lot of things. I think Paul
Speaker 1: Axenna would have been in the Trojan Women. Maybe I'm free.
Speaker 1: There's so many women with similar names. Yeah, so that's
Speaker 1: a good example. I wish I knew more of them offhand,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to put them on my list of
Speaker 1: people to look into about whether I can do a
Speaker 1: whole episode on them. So thank you, Lauren. All Right,
Speaker 1: next one of my Emily's that's just a running joke.
Speaker 1: If you get it, you get it. Emily says, sorry
Speaker 1: if this seems like rambling, but recently I was thinking
Speaker 1: about Greek myth and how it is a good, good
Speaker 1: in quotes thing for a woman to be thin ankled,
Speaker 1: and how that would be basically the only way her
Speaker 1: appearance would be described, if at all. Also, I have
Speaker 1: heard Hara being referred to as cowfaced, and I wondered
Speaker 1: if that would be a good thing or a slight
Speaker 1: dig at her. I guess what I am trying to ask.
Speaker 1: Is there an expert slash source you could point me
Speaker 1: to that talks about the subject of beauty slash appearance
Speaker 1: in ancient Greece and their possible nuances. Oh, what a
Speaker 1: great question. I'm racking my brain. I want to have
Speaker 1: the answer to this. The neat ankled thing, so sometimes
Speaker 1: it's translated as thin ankled, and sometimes it's translated as neat.
Speaker 1: I like neat better. It is still weird to focus
Speaker 1: on ankles, especially because like Greek women like they weren't
Speaker 1: not showing skin. Ankles is so specific. There's gotta be
Speaker 1: a good reason. And the cow faced thing, ah, that's definitely.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it is meant to be kind. I
Speaker 1: read about this somewhere, and I've forgotten where. This is
Speaker 1: the problem. I do too much research and then I it.
Speaker 1: I did a little bit of digging, but I literally
Speaker 1: just googled. So I won't pretend like I have better
Speaker 1: sources to give you, but I think that it's more
Speaker 1: it was so it's like sometimes cowface, sometimes cow eyed,
Speaker 1: sometimes ox eyed. These are just like translational differences. But
Speaker 1: I think it seems like it's more about just her
Speaker 1: having like big pretty eyes, like you know, because also
Speaker 1: you have to think like it's we think of cow
Speaker 1: as a bad insult because of fat phobia, and like
Speaker 1: the grossness of the last you know, one hundred years
Speaker 1: or so, or like, as a millennial, I think of
Speaker 1: the grossness of just the nineties and the two thousands,
Speaker 1: but like cows and heifers and ox like those were
Speaker 1: really important animals and like it wasn't an insult that's
Speaker 1: just like, oh, you have big eyes. You know. These
Speaker 1: are just like vitally vitally important animals. So I think
Speaker 1: it is like a nice thing, but it just sounds
Speaker 1: weird to us. As for the wider question, which was
Speaker 1: so great, of like where to look for stuff like this,
Speaker 1: I don't have an answer, but I desperately want one,
Speaker 1: so I might be I might try to look into
Speaker 1: this a little further and maybe hopefully mention something on
Speaker 1: an upcoming episode because it sounds so interesting and I
Speaker 1: imagine that there's a great source on this because I
Speaker 1: think it is probably like a really full topic with
Speaker 1: like so much to learn because the epithets were so weird,
Speaker 1: like some epithets are wild and they make very little sense.
Speaker 1: You know, it's contextual, it's like what mattered and what
Speaker 1: was important back then. But the neat ankled thing has
Speaker 1: always made me laugh, Like what anyway, I would love
Speaker 1: to know more. I hope to have an answer in
Speaker 1: the future. I'm sorry for not having it now, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm only doing I'm doing literally what I can to
Speaker 1: survive right now, so thank you for asking it, though,
Speaker 1: my god. Okay, so I have a question from Strischi
Speaker 1: and Chloe I hope I pronounced that even remotely right,
Speaker 1: who both collectively said, could you please do a small
Speaker 1: episode on the birth of some minor goddess god slash
Speaker 1: goddesses Hestia, Hecate, children of Nicks, et cetera. And I'm
Speaker 1: reading that because it's a I would love to if
Speaker 1: there was anything. But when it comes to the minor gods,
Speaker 1: the sources tend to be they were born like that's it.
Speaker 1: So it would be like, these are the children of
Speaker 1: Nicks and then list names Hestia is the daughter of X.
Speaker 1: I don't even say who because there's all these different options.
Speaker 1: But it's like that's it. There's no story, and I
Speaker 1: would I wish I could talk more easily about kind
Speaker 1: of everyone. But the thing is is that if I
Speaker 1: come into a microphone and I just list people who
Speaker 1: people were born of, like people are not going to
Speaker 1: sit through a half an hour of that, and I
Speaker 1: have to make them half an hour justify giving you
Speaker 1: guys ads, I really try not to give you ads
Speaker 1: on anything less. So yeah, I just there isn't Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: there just isn't enough. But I did read the Theogony
Speaker 1: last year or the year before around this time of year,
Speaker 1: which is a good example of that. Like it's literally
Speaker 1: just a list of who was born to whom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would, I honestly like, I so wish there was more.
Speaker 1: And that's why I kind of recommended to you guys
Speaker 1: to ask me about these gods, because if there are
Speaker 1: gods that you'd like to know more about, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd love to talk about them in this kind of
Speaker 1: setting when I can. When it comes to the births, though,
Speaker 1: which is, yeah, what do you ask about here? Like
Speaker 1: there's just there's nothing. There's literally just who were their
Speaker 1: parents if we know them, and that tends to be
Speaker 1: about it. I'm always looking for more on Hestia and Hecate.
Speaker 1: I think when this episode comes out, it'll be right
Speaker 1: after my episode with Natalie Haynes, where we just basically
Speaker 1: talked about Hestia, revolving around her newest book, but mostly
Speaker 1: we just talked about Hestia and even she was like,
Speaker 1: there's nothing, and I'm like, yeah, it's awful. I just
Speaker 1: want to talk about hest all the time, but there's nothing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so you know, I think, yeah, I'm sorry this.
Speaker 1: You can tell that I want to tell you more.
Speaker 1: There's just not enough. If I ever find a way
Speaker 1: to fit in an episode that isn't going to be
Speaker 1: just a boredom factory and talk about all these gods,
Speaker 1: I will, I promise, all right. This one comes from Ariadney.
Speaker 1: Thank you Ariadney. Hi. I love the podcast and have
Speaker 1: been obsessed with Greek mythology for a long time. I
Speaker 1: am also of Greek descent, hence my name. I guessed,
Speaker 1: but notice that though you have covered covered extremely well
Speaker 1: some of my favorite ancient Greek heroines Cledemnestra, Thetis, Electra, Circe.
Speaker 1: You have yet to do an episode on my namesake Ariadney,
Speaker 1: but I have. I've done tons of material on her
Speaker 1: if you're interested, though, I'm sure you have that covered
Speaker 1: and would absolutely love to hear her often ignored story.
Speaker 1: So my question is, could you do an episode slast
Speaker 1: share what you know about her? So Ariadney one, if
Speaker 1: you want to send me mention of whatever sources you have.
Speaker 1: I'm always happy to hear of sources. I do only
Speaker 1: really look to primary sources with some exceptions, but I
Speaker 1: would absolutely love to hear what you have to share
Speaker 1: with me, So please feel fear to email me. It's
Speaker 1: Mythsbabe at gmail dot com. But I have some an
Speaker 1: episode on Ariadney. The problem with Ariadney's story is that,
Speaker 1: aside from the Dionysiaca, which I have not been able
Speaker 1: to dive deep enough into yet, her story just revolves
Speaker 1: around unfortunately theseus and dionysus. She does deserve better, but
Speaker 1: those are the facts, and so I have done an
Speaker 1: episode on her. If you just search Ariadny in a
Speaker 1: podcast app and then look for my podcast, you will
Speaker 1: find it. I think there's only been a couple, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I've definitely talked about her in relation to those men,
Speaker 1: because she's awesome and she deserves the world. But unfortunately
Speaker 1: I have to work with what sources exist. But also
Speaker 1: it's really great that that's your name. I love that
Speaker 1: for you, Thank you. And speaking of names, literally the
Speaker 1: very next day, I had a question from and I'm
Speaker 1: going to pronounce your name like we do in North America,
Speaker 1: and I apologize if that's not how it's pronounced, but unice,
Speaker 1: but I'm also going to later try to guess how
Speaker 1: it would be pronounced in Greek, because Yuna says my
Speaker 1: name is derived from the Greek goddess Nike, which of
Speaker 1: course you already know. You know what I didn't. We'll
Speaker 1: get into that. Is there any slash enough research to
Speaker 1: touch on her mythos? I hated my name for most
Speaker 1: of my adolescents until I learned it's etymology, which also
Speaker 1: kicked my interest, kicked off my interest in mythology. Thank
Speaker 1: you for the show, Thank you. I love that. So
Speaker 1: I didn't like I know that Niki is based off
Speaker 1: Nike because in Greece they basically pronounce it Niki. But
Speaker 1: I love that, and so I googled it and it
Speaker 1: looks like it's specifically good victory, which is where the
Speaker 1: the eu at the beginning comes in, which I love.
Speaker 1: I imagine in modern Greek, if it is still a
Speaker 1: modern Greek name, it would be pronounced like Evniki, which
Speaker 1: I love. Evniki. That would be so so pretty. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I love that so much. So Niek she is tricky.
Speaker 1: I love her. I mean the winged victory of Samothraki
Speaker 1: is my has my whole heart, obviously because I've been
Speaker 1: there and it's the greatest place in the world. But
Speaker 1: Nick is one of those frustrating deities honestly, like like
Speaker 1: the ones I mentioned earlier, because I think she she
Speaker 1: daughter of Nix or somebody else. Either way, she is
Speaker 1: one of those personification deities where like I talk about
Speaker 1: last Week and the Q and A, like you know,
Speaker 1: Chronos with an h how he just is time. Nik's
Speaker 1: just is victory, right, And so there is no story
Speaker 1: about her as a character because she didn't matter as
Speaker 1: a character. And I mean that in a good way
Speaker 1: because basically Nick was there for any and all victorious moments,
Speaker 1: any and all victories that happen in any myth. If
Speaker 1: the word victory appears then it was Niki, right, particularly
Speaker 1: if you read a translation it's capitalized, you can just
Speaker 1: be like that might as well be Nick. So you know,
Speaker 1: there are no stories about her. We do know. I
Speaker 1: just I just made sure she is the daughter of sticks.
Speaker 1: Apologies not Nicks sticks, but we do so that's just it, right,
Speaker 1: So we literally have like she is the daughter of
Speaker 1: the river Styx, but she just is Victory. Like her
Speaker 1: siblings are Power and Force and zeal. So it's like
Speaker 1: they are just conceptual, you know. It's it's unfortunate because
Speaker 1: we want to hear these things, especially because she's beautiful
Speaker 1: and all these the visual representations of her, right, like
Speaker 1: she's just lovely goddess with these gorgeous wings. Especially like
Speaker 1: if you haven't, if you don't know what I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: and I say winged Victory, google it. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of different names. She's in the Louver, I think, where
Speaker 1: they call her winged Victory. She's Nikiev, Samothraci, Samothrace. But
Speaker 1: she was stolen, you know, by the French, which is
Speaker 1: why she's there. But it's nice to call her, you know,
Speaker 1: by her more Greek name. The same applies if you
Speaker 1: just FYI if you want to adjust how you say
Speaker 1: these words. But the Venus de Milo, right, was also
Speaker 1: stolen by the French. She is Aphrediti of Milos. There's
Speaker 1: no reason to call her venus because she is a
Speaker 1: Greek statue found in Grace, stolen from Milos. And so
Speaker 1: the name Venus de Milo sounds it's just like very
Speaker 1: not you know where she came from. So that is
Speaker 1: Afredititi of Milos. More accurately speaking anyway, But nik is
Speaker 1: just so interesting because we want her to have these stories,
Speaker 1: we want her to have so much more. But it
Speaker 1: is just purely that she was just victory. So you know,
Speaker 1: even if your go on her, you know her list
Speaker 1: of all the mentions of her in the ancient sources
Speaker 1: on theo A as I'll mention THEOA again, we literally
Speaker 1: just have you know, sticks bear Oh look trim ankle
Speaker 1: to nick Inhesid. So we with that, that's what we have.
Speaker 1: She she headed her nice ankles, you know. Oh she's
Speaker 1: called warlike in the Homeric hymn. That's nice. She's yeah,
Speaker 1: mentioned later the daughter of Styx like. She She was
Speaker 1: often shown accompanying Athena just because of these associations with
Speaker 1: war and strategy and victory. She you know, is mentioned
Speaker 1: in relation to the war with the Titans, but again
Speaker 1: because somebody won. You know, it's not about including someone
Speaker 1: in the story so much as making sure that your
Speaker 1: story includes victory. I do see there's some references in
Speaker 1: the Dionysia co which I've mentioned, but again I think
Speaker 1: it's just going to be related to just the concept
Speaker 1: of victory. It's unfortunate, I don't you know. I know
Speaker 1: I've checked this before because I've been looking for more
Speaker 1: on Nique forever forever. I promise I would have told you.
Speaker 1: But it's just these these conceptual ideas of victory, broadly
Speaker 1: because she just it's not that she wasn't important, it's
Speaker 1: that she was too important as a concept for them
Speaker 1: to bother writing her into stories or theorizing on stories
Speaker 1: because it's like, well, they didn't need to because if
Speaker 1: she's in every story, because she's victory, right, they just
Speaker 1: had different priorities than us. It was just about writing
Speaker 1: down this a story of a major event, and so
Speaker 1: like no of Niki was there, but just because there
Speaker 1: was victory. So hope that helps. I really always want
Speaker 1: to have more satisfying answers for you guys. Personally, I
Speaker 1: find that part more interesting, Like I think it's more
Speaker 1: interesting to look at why there are no stories of
Speaker 1: her and how that is because she was this concept.
Speaker 1: But I know that it's frustrating to most. But either way,
Speaker 1: your name is beautiful and yeah so and Nika is
Speaker 1: seriously cool even if we don't have stories of her
Speaker 1: all right. Next one, I have one from Ali who
Speaker 1: says I've been listening to and loving the post for years,
Speaker 1: but this is the first time I'm writing in for
Speaker 1: a Q and A episode. I'm usually listening while I'm
Speaker 1: in between appointments or steaming dresses at my job as
Speaker 1: a bridal stylist. Since I'm around brides all day and
Speaker 1: listening to plans about their wedding while we find them
Speaker 1: the dress, I wanted to ask what you think the
Speaker 1: worst wedding and all of Greek myth is I go
Speaker 1: back and forth between Perseus and Traumatas and Pellias and Thetises.
Speaker 1: Are there other major weddings of note? Can we even
Speaker 1: count if a Ganiah's wedding two Achilles? On a completely
Speaker 1: separate note, I also wanted to ask if you're watching
Speaker 1: the new animated show Crap Populis. I'm really liking it
Speaker 1: so far. You're not the first person to ask about Crepopolis,
Speaker 1: so I will just very quickly tell you and the
Speaker 1: other I'm sorry, no, I have not watched it. But
Speaker 1: to your earlier question, oh my god, worst wedding, I
Speaker 1: think you're right in debating between those two. But I
Speaker 1: also think you're right in popping in if a Gania's
Speaker 1: fake wedding to Achilles, like I think arguably probably that
Speaker 1: one's the worst if you want to count it as
Speaker 1: a wedding, because like, if you're this nice teenage girl
Speaker 1: being told you're going to marry the best of the
Speaker 1: Greeks and instead your dad kills you, like not ideal,
Speaker 1: not great, But otherwise I would say probably between Percys
Speaker 1: and Andromeda and Pelias and Thetis, I think percy Is
Speaker 1: and Andromeda's has a higher death toll, a much much
Speaker 1: higher death Well that's a it has a much higher
Speaker 1: direct death toll, and that like everyone at the wedding
Speaker 1: dies mostly. But if you count the Trojan war as
Speaker 1: a death toll of the wedding of Pelias and Thetis,
Speaker 1: well then that one's worse, really I think we could
Speaker 1: go back and forth forever, and I love that you
Speaker 1: had me do that, but yeah, I don't think we
Speaker 1: can pick between them. It's just like, what are the
Speaker 1: levels of bad? You know, there's there's other weddings. Cadmins
Speaker 1: and Harmonia have a wedding mythologically where shit does not
Speaker 1: go down, so that's nice for them. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's the only like kind of more official wedding. There's
Speaker 1: some really interesting stuff about young women preparing for their wedding.
Speaker 1: We talked about it in my episode with doctor Ellie
Speaker 1: Mack and Roberts about Persephone, because they often looked to
Speaker 1: that story in preparation for their own wedding, both by
Speaker 1: being excited and also from the other side of oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm being forced to marry this man. And
Speaker 1: I think that that story really connected with a lot
Speaker 1: of people. So that was really interesting conversation I had
Speaker 1: if you wanted to listen to it. But I definitely
Speaker 1: think you're right in terms of your theorizing on the
Speaker 1: worst weddings for sure. Okay, We're gonna try to power
Speaker 1: through a bunch more because you guys have so many
Speaker 1: good questions and also time is the thing. Okay, Vicky
Speaker 1: wrote in and they say, hey, live big fan here.
Speaker 1: My question is what myth can people read if they
Speaker 1: like the weirdest stuff ever, including me? Tbh, I'm with you, Vicky, Okay.
Speaker 1: Homeric him to Hermes Chef's fucking kiss It's literally perfect.
Speaker 1: Oh what else? I mean? The elkest is pl is
Speaker 1: weird as shit, but it is a play. The myth
Speaker 1: is a little bit more mysterious and missing. I mean
Speaker 1: it's so hard, like everything is so weird in its
Speaker 1: own kind of way, you know, like honestly, just reading
Speaker 1: any of the original sources, like you're gonna get some
Speaker 1: weird shit, pick up some pseudo Apollodorus even he see it. Maybe.
Speaker 1: Homeric Him's broadly are pretty fun summer weird. I mean
Speaker 1: they were all weird, you know, Like the story of
Speaker 1: Pacife and the Bull is what really reminded me how
Speaker 1: weird and interesting the Greeks were, and like why I
Speaker 1: was like, I think I'm gonna talk about them into
Speaker 1: a microphone, you know, and then here we are. Ah,
Speaker 1: they were all just so weird. I wish, yeah, I
Speaker 1: wish I had more detailed answers. Homeric him to Hermes
Speaker 1: is my good go to so quick read. It's deeply wild.
Speaker 1: It's just so silly, all right. Connor has an interesting question.
Speaker 1: I don't have an answer, but Connor, I'm going to
Speaker 1: read it in case other people do. Okay, Connor says,
Speaker 1: as a big fan of the Six musical, I cannot
Speaker 1: help but notice the similarities between Medea and Catherine of Aragon.
Speaker 1: Both are foreign princesses married to a king to bear
Speaker 1: his children, but are cast out for a local wife.
Speaker 1: Catherine does end up in a nunnery, and she isn't
Speaker 1: happy about it, though she does not kill her daughter
Speaker 1: on a dragon chariot. Has anyone else written about the
Speaker 1: similarities between these two fiction or nonfiction? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know of anything about Catherine of Aragon really,
Speaker 1: but that's really interesting. So I mean, if anyone has
Speaker 1: any recommendations for that, feel free to write in and
Speaker 1: I will read it on an upcoming episode, because that's interesting,
Speaker 1: all right. One from Paris and they said love the podcast.
Speaker 1: I was listening to another podcast which doesn't have a
Speaker 1: mythology focus, and so the hosts are not well versed. However,
Speaker 1: on a tangent they called the myth of a sterion
Speaker 1: a parable for step children. I can't recall if you
Speaker 1: made the same connection, but it seemed misguided to me
Speaker 1: to refer to the myth as such. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1: Is a stereo on a warm warning about step children?
Speaker 1: Or is that too reductionist? Keep up the amazing work.
Speaker 1: I love listening. Thank you, Paris. I think that is
Speaker 1: also a reductionist, Like I don't, I mean, if you
Speaker 1: want to say it, like I don't think it's wrong,
Speaker 1: but I think to suggest that that is, like any
Speaker 1: kind of major point of the story of Asterion Slash
Speaker 1: the Minotaur, to be clear, is yeah, is reductionist. I mean,
Speaker 1: it is at its heart something about the gods, right,
Speaker 1: like stepchild is a stretch, Like I mean, for lots
Speaker 1: of reasons, one being it was a bull. But like
Speaker 1: step children would the implication would be either like from
Speaker 1: a previous marriage or a further marriage. But like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think it's reductionist. And also just like boring,
Speaker 1: like I think there is much more interesting things to
Speaker 1: say about the minotaur and Hysterion and his birth and
Speaker 1: him as a character. And yeah, because also like we don't,
Speaker 1: I mean minos like in terms of the ancient sources,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a huge role to play, Like we
Speaker 1: don't really know it's it's tough. It's tough. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think that there's enough going on in the sources
Speaker 1: to say that. All right, Lily Has says, I live.
Speaker 1: Thanks for your guidance on my Pathos assignment last Q
Speaker 1: and A. You're welcome. I forgot about that. That was fun.
Speaker 1: My question is do you have a favorite ancient artwork? Oh
Speaker 1: another question where it's just like what is my mood?
Speaker 1: But you know what I'm gonna go with. So last
Speaker 1: year I was lucky enough to go to Santerini for
Speaker 1: the first time. I normally wouldn't have wanted to go.
Speaker 1: It's so expensive compared to the rest of Greece, but
Speaker 1: my mom like desperately wanted to go, so we made
Speaker 1: it a thing, and I mean thankfully, like I'm very
Speaker 1: glad I did. Because the thing about Santrini, if you
Speaker 1: ignore all of the tourism, like it is gorgeous for one,
Speaker 1: because it's a fucking volcano, but like it's so flip
Speaker 1: and expensive compared to the rest of the country. But
Speaker 1: the incredible thing about Santrini that no one really talks
Speaker 1: about because it's too busy being Sancherini. Is that you know,
Speaker 1: it was a volcano, which means that it does have
Speaker 1: a preserved city like in the vein of Pompeii, only
Speaker 1: two thousand years older, can more like sixteen hundred, but
Speaker 1: like sixteen hundred years older than Pompeii. Right, It's called Acriteria.
Speaker 1: It's in the south of Santerini. You can take a
Speaker 1: really easy bus to get there. I think the bus
Speaker 1: cost us like two euro it was the best. And
Speaker 1: Acriteria is a fully well, you know, preserved in whatever
Speaker 1: way possible town from the Bronze Age, was preserved by
Speaker 1: the volcanic corruption of Thera. And it is wild. It
Speaker 1: is incredible, like you see an ancient town like but
Speaker 1: and by ancient in this case, like I mean the
Speaker 1: Bronze Age, so I mean I mean sixteen hundred years
Speaker 1: before Pompeii, but like a thousand years before, more than
Speaker 1: a thousand years before the play rights before Plato, like
Speaker 1: it's so old. And this leads me to the actual
Speaker 1: answer to your question, sorry, which is that in Thera.
Speaker 1: In town of Thera on Santorini, it's far from a criteria,
Speaker 1: but it's a small island. Is the Archaeological Museum of Thera,
Speaker 1: and holy shit, because I have been to the National
Speaker 1: Archaeological Museum in Athens, as I told you all, you
Speaker 1: have to go. It's the fucking best. Do not go
Speaker 1: to Athens and not see it. And there they have
Speaker 1: some wall paintings from Acriteri, from this preserved Bronze Age town,
Speaker 1: and the wallpaintings that they have in the nam are amazing.
Speaker 1: They're beautiful, They're so colorful, like the color is preserved
Speaker 1: right by this volcanic corruption in a way that would
Speaker 1: never be possible without it. They're incredible. But then you
Speaker 1: go to fucking Thera and there's like a hundred times
Speaker 1: as many. So the wall paintings preserved from Acriteria, like
Speaker 1: all of them, but like, oh, I can't even honestly,
Speaker 1: I can't even name like a specific favorite because it's
Speaker 1: just all of them. They're un real. Or if you
Speaker 1: want that more famous thing I'm obsessed with being Victory,
Speaker 1: the ones I've talked about earlier. It's in the loof
Speaker 1: because it's from Samothrae and also it's this hellenistic joy
Speaker 1: it's fucking incredible. So yeah, those would be my favorites,
Speaker 1: but also honestly, like I could list one thousand more.
Speaker 1: All right. This next one was from Emma, who says,
Speaker 1: would you ever write another book and would you do
Speaker 1: an episode on the meanings of Greek names? All right?
Speaker 1: Emma one, yes, uh so, I want to publish lots
Speaker 1: more books. But I'm currently working on a new novel
Speaker 1: set aside Cadm's and Harmonia for a little while because
Speaker 1: I couldn't get to it, but I've written something else
Speaker 1: and we're working on it. We're working on making that happen.
Speaker 1: It is something the meaning of Greek names. I was,
Speaker 1: I love that. Maybe I'll like focus A, Q and
Speaker 1: A on it somehow sometime because the thing about that,
Speaker 1: it's a lot like what I was talking about I
Speaker 1: think earlier, but it was maybe last week. I've recorded
Speaker 1: them both at once. When I was talking about how
Speaker 1: difficult it is to just like list names, you know,
Speaker 1: as one person, Like if I can turn it into
Speaker 1: a discussion with somebody, that's so different. But in terms
Speaker 1: of me doing an episode like it would just get
Speaker 1: boring so quickly, unfortunately, you know, like it just would
Speaker 1: so maybe I'll just kind of prompt people next Q
Speaker 1: and A to like if so, even just now, if
Speaker 1: you guys have any questions about specific Greek names and
Speaker 1: the meanings, feel free to put them into this the
Speaker 1: same Q and A form mythsbaby dot com slash questions,
Speaker 1: and I can get to it in the next Q
Speaker 1: and A in the summer, because I would love to.
Speaker 1: It's just that I need prompting and I need it
Speaker 1: can't be just a list, So if you tell me
Speaker 1: any names you're interested in, I will do the research
Speaker 1: and figure it out. Because it's a great idea. It's
Speaker 1: just one of those things that like logistically, just like
Speaker 1: doesn't work very well in the type of podcast that
Speaker 1: I have to give you. All Right, This next one
Speaker 1: is from Julia, and it gives me joy. She's got
Speaker 1: three questions. One, maybe this is dumb, but given the
Speaker 1: Greek's obsession with dix, why do all those ancient sculptures
Speaker 1: have such tiny genitalia? Great question. I don't know the answer,
Speaker 1: like you know, you know, I don't. I don't, But
Speaker 1: because like a lot of the sculptures do, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think of time period and like whether maybe those
Speaker 1: are coming later. A lot of the things we're imagining,
Speaker 1: because like, if you're curious about the opposite of that,
Speaker 1: you go ahead and you type the Roman god Preapus
Speaker 1: into the Google. You go type pre APIs pr I
Speaker 1: a p us. You're welcome. But also, you know, they
Speaker 1: like carry dicks around all the time, they put them
Speaker 1: on everything. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't have one, so I just don't think about
Speaker 1: them that much. Number two, do you know anything about
Speaker 1: Demeter's be maidens and they're dance leading people into the underworld.
Speaker 1: I saw them mentioned somewhere but never dived into it,
Speaker 1: although it sounded interesting. Okay, now I am obsessed, Julia.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll do an episode on Demeter. I would love
Speaker 1: to talk more about Demeter, but her story is pretty
Speaker 1: like specifically connected to Persephone. Yeah, yeah, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't offhand. I would love to learn more, though, So
Speaker 1: thank you for bringing them up. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: bees were super important. I mean they are obvious bees Jesus,
Speaker 1: They're like gonna save or kill the world, and by
Speaker 1: them killing us, I mean we killing them. Oh I
Speaker 1: can't speak today, Yeah I don't, but I would love
Speaker 1: to have that as an idea, so thank you Number three.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about the fact that the ancient
Speaker 1: Romans would pronounce your name as fifty four? I love that.
Speaker 1: I think it's funny sometimes. Oh A good moment of
Speaker 1: having my name be live is that if somebody texts
Speaker 1: it to me all in caps, like if they're just
Speaker 1: being they're yelling my name at me, or like being expositional,
Speaker 1: And if I ask my phone, if I ask Siri
Speaker 1: to read it to me, she just says fifty four.
Speaker 1: She doesn't say my name, she just says fifty four.
Speaker 1: So the assumption is if it's an all caps, it's
Speaker 1: actually a Roman numeral and not my name. And I
Speaker 1: find a lot of joy in that. And I had
Speaker 1: one from blendin. I hope I pronounced that right. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry technically I'm French. I'm shitty at it though, and
Speaker 1: I'm not going to read it, but I just want
Speaker 1: to say it was about my ipag and I among
Speaker 1: the Torrian's episodes and some of the things that I
Speaker 1: said without saying, which is what I'm doing again now,
Speaker 1: just because I am not in the mental space to
Speaker 1: take people accusing me of saying things I didn't say,
Speaker 1: which is what happens whenever anyone talks about what's happening
Speaker 1: right now. But I just want to tell you that originally,
Speaker 1: when this message came in at the beginning of December,
Speaker 1: like I couldn't have needed it more so, you saying
Speaker 1: what you said and praising or even just recognizing what
Speaker 1: I said in those episodes meant so much to me.
Speaker 1: It really really helped me at a really difficult time.
Speaker 1: So thank you very much for your message. You definitely
Speaker 1: didn't make it weird. It was really great. All right,
Speaker 1: I've got just a couple more questions we're going to
Speaker 1: try to get through. So Andy, she says, are you
Speaker 1: going to watch the Percy Jackson series on Disney Plus? Andy,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I don't currently have
Speaker 1: Disney for reasons. I don't know. I hope everyone's enjoying
Speaker 1: it though, for real I do, but again, like I
Speaker 1: don't know the story, I do in theory, I want
Speaker 1: to watch it. I do. Sorry, that's the least helpful answer,
Speaker 1: but I wanted to read the question and answer because
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people are probably thinking that
Speaker 1: right now. All right, and Becca said, Hi, live, absolutely
Speaker 1: love your show. This question isn't really related to anything mythological,
Speaker 1: but I always see you on trips to Greece, which
Speaker 1: is an absolute dream of mine. I was just wondering
Speaker 1: what you do to pass all of your time on
Speaker 1: what I assume is a very, very long flight from
Speaker 1: the Canadian West coast. Becca. It is a long flight
Speaker 1: because there is no direct flight. There is no direct flight. Yes,
Speaker 1: I am fortunate enough thankfully the podcast, honestly, so you
Speaker 1: all have helped me be fortunate enough to be able
Speaker 1: to go to Greece quite often, and I couldn't be
Speaker 1: more grateful. But also, yeah, the flight is crazy long.
Speaker 1: It's usually about twenty to twenty four hours of me
Speaker 1: traveling just to get there because I live on the
Speaker 1: farthest part of North America basically. But yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: read mostly and I try to sleep, and you know
Speaker 1: how difficult that can be on a plane. So mostly
Speaker 1: I just read and try not to I don't even
Speaker 1: know curl in on myself. But it's always worth it.
Speaker 1: It's always worth it because I'm in Greece. Okay, we're
Speaker 1: going to end today's with a question from Lauren and
Speaker 1: Lauren's Brain seems to work a lot like mine, which
Speaker 1: is why I'm going to joyfully read this entire question,
Speaker 1: which is long. But you guys are all gonna deal
Speaker 1: with it, all right, Lauren says, First of all, I
Speaker 1: love your show and you for that matter, not in
Speaker 1: a weird way, though I'm not a creep, I promise. However,
Speaker 1: I do have one grape. You had the audacity to
Speaker 1: flaunt your podcast or privilege getting Stephanie mccartter's translation of
Speaker 1: Metamorphoses early, while the rest of us have peasants had
Speaker 1: to endure the agonizing weight as the calendar dragged on
Speaker 1: and on, watching the days when the status went from
Speaker 1: pre order to shift. I wish you could hear the
Speaker 1: dripping sarcasm. It's truly a crime. And I also hope
Speaker 1: that my assumption is true, because if not, I'm an asshole. Anyway,
Speaker 1: my ADHD brain got all dramatic. My question is this,
Speaker 1: when it comes to translations of ancient texts, besides being
Speaker 1: leary of most translations by cis hat white dudes and
Speaker 1: buying slash acquiring the text before reading it, are there
Speaker 1: things to look for or ways to identify clear biases?
Speaker 1: Are there? Translator blacklist websites or a few translators that
Speaker 1: you can recommend. I know Emily Wilson as Chef's Kiss
Speaker 1: that maybe aren't as well known. To give you a
Speaker 1: little context, I have a similar narrative when it comes
Speaker 1: to mythology and that I picked up a disneyfied copy
Speaker 1: of Greek myths and I've not only ended up gay,
Speaker 1: but I'm now interested in every single culture's mythology and
Speaker 1: folklore that ever existed. So spiraling down a few rap
Speaker 1: it holds at two am is child's play at this point.
Speaker 1: Thank you for all your hard work and powering through
Speaker 1: on your rough days to give us this amazing content.
Speaker 1: Thank you for being so open about those hard days.
Speaker 1: Oh this is ironic. Thank you not ironic, this bad grammar.
Speaker 1: Live about those hard days and still showing up for us,
Speaker 1: though I hope you're showing up for yourself, because you're
Speaker 1: pretty fucking fabulous. As someone who struggles with the laundry
Speaker 1: list of mental illnesses, I can relate, and I have
Speaker 1: an idea how hard it can be to literally just
Speaker 1: put socks on. I can barely function and bathe when
Speaker 1: I'm having a particularly bad time, so I can't imagine
Speaker 1: running a podcast on that podcast being your soul income
Speaker 1: At this point, I don't know how often you get
Speaker 1: people thanking and validating you for that, so I just
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that I did live. You're a
Speaker 1: goddamn goddess yourself, and thank you for loving this shit.
Speaker 1: I started reading that because it was just like funny,
Speaker 1: silly adhd brain, and then it became deep. Thank you. Really,
Speaker 1: I couldn't have possibly needed that more because sometimes sometimes
Speaker 1: I have to podcast even when even when the worst
Speaker 1: thing has happened. So thank you for appreciate it. I
Speaker 1: always love my job, but it is very weird having
Speaker 1: a job where I just talk to a microphone and
Speaker 1: hope people listen. Sometimes I really do need to actually
Speaker 1: hear from people who do listen, because it can feel
Speaker 1: really odd that I just do this and just kind
Speaker 1: of like let it go out into the world and
Speaker 1: hope for the best. So thank you. I really did
Speaker 1: start reading this because I just wanted to answer your
Speaker 1: question about translators and also laugh about basically everything you typed,
Speaker 1: because it was incredibly funny about Stephanie McCarter. It's that
Speaker 1: the book had come out in the UK, and I
Speaker 1: so you at North Americans had to wait, or maybe
Speaker 1: it was the opposite. Maybe it was it had come
Speaker 1: out in the US and British people had to wait.
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I'm sorry. I definitely did get it early, though,
Speaker 1: and that was my podcaster or privilege. Actually that time too,
Speaker 1: I didn't even use. I used to work at Penguin
Speaker 1: and sometimes I get stuff early because of them, not
Speaker 1: because of podcaster, but this time it was all podcaster. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that's a great translation, but translation is broadly trying to
Speaker 1: think of anyone who I would know is like I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the newer the better generally, not always, but
Speaker 1: you know, if you pick up one that's really cheap,
Speaker 1: it's usually cheap because it's like one hundred plus years old.
Speaker 1: And while you know, there's nothing wrong with those inherently,
Speaker 1: like I'm obviously I read them on the show because
Speaker 1: they're all I can legally read aloud to you guys.
Speaker 1: But like there's imagine one hundred years ago, Like there's
Speaker 1: biases there just inherent by the world one hundred years ago,
Speaker 1: whether they be about women or just racist or you know, homophobic,
Speaker 1: like who knows, right, So the newer the better, generally,
Speaker 1: but then there are still shitty people out there translating.
Speaker 1: Now again, I don't I can't name any offhand that
Speaker 1: I would be like, oh my god, no not now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know there's so Ann Carson's I really like, I've
Speaker 1: talked about her a lot, so maybe that's not like
Speaker 1: a behind the scenes one last week on the Q
Speaker 1: and A, I mentioned that Greek myths or not Greek myths,
Speaker 1: I might have called it Greek myths. It's called Greek plays.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a modern library edition of like all
Speaker 1: three Tragedians, like three or four plays each, and it's
Speaker 1: translations from the last like ten years or so, when
Speaker 1: they're all pretty good. I mean, yeah, it's really difficult.
Speaker 1: There's not like any clear biases that aren't you know,
Speaker 1: like really obvious shit, like if you open the book
Speaker 1: and the word slut is there, like that's probably not
Speaker 1: from the ancient Greek, you know, probably was just woman. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I try to just kind of, I try
Speaker 1: to refer to more than one if I can. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I can't. And you know, if I know the translator
Speaker 1: is pretty good, translation is subjective. You know, Like this
Speaker 1: came up a lot when the new Iliad came out
Speaker 1: and all the dudes were so angry, like saying that
Speaker 1: she changed, and it's like she literally didn't change it.
Speaker 1: She just made choices, because you have to make choices
Speaker 1: as a translator. It's literally impossible to translate literally because
Speaker 1: if you are reading a literal translation, it's not going
Speaker 1: to make any fucking sense because words change and English has,
Speaker 1: you know, different words for something than Greek would, or
Speaker 1: or multiple words that can mean the same thing in
Speaker 1: Greek or vice versa. Like you know, a translation is
Speaker 1: always going to have bias. Stephanie McCarter talked about this
Speaker 1: on my episode with her, and it was really interesting
Speaker 1: because it really is always going to have bias because
Speaker 1: everyone is human and you are going to put your
Speaker 1: human nature into the translation. It is unavoidable. The question
Speaker 1: is what those translators are thinking and intending with that translation. So,
Speaker 1: you know, when Stephanie talked about this, she talked about
Speaker 1: how she was making a conscious effort to equal the
Speaker 1: playing fields between men and women, to look at what
Speaker 1: other translations have done, to look at the Latin and
Speaker 1: make a call, you know, based on whatever the least
Speaker 1: you know, the sort of the I guess the least bias,
Speaker 1: but again she did admit, you know, working within her
Speaker 1: own bias. It's just it's really interesting looking at translation
Speaker 1: and you know what has to be done in order
Speaker 1: for something to not only make sense when translated into
Speaker 1: a modern language when it was written, you know, two
Speaker 1: thousand plus years ago, but just like you know what
Speaker 1: comes out of that and what people can read from it,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's utterly fascinating. Like I've read, you know,
Speaker 1: a bunch of stories from all of it, in like
Speaker 1: three or four or five even different translations, and they're
Speaker 1: all interesting in their own ways. And you know, even
Speaker 1: the old ones that are certainly full of biases, they're
Speaker 1: still good because you're still reading the ancient text in
Speaker 1: some form. You just have to kind of keep in
Speaker 1: mind that there might be you know, more glaring biases
Speaker 1: that you're not aware of, you know, just keep it
Speaker 1: in mind. If you read something and you're like, well
Speaker 1: that's the odd you know, like maybe pick up a
Speaker 1: different translation and try to find the same passage and
Speaker 1: how they read it. I just find that really interesting,
Speaker 1: you know, looking at multiple translations and things like that. Actually,
Speaker 1: now the more I ramble, the more I realize. So
Speaker 1: there is also like there's a website called Poetry and
Speaker 1: Translation which provides a lot of free translations to ancient works.
Speaker 1: I'm not super familiar with the translators involved, or all
Speaker 1: of them at least, but it's still like it's a
Speaker 1: good free resource that you can go on and read.
Speaker 1: And they are recent translations, so while there still might
Speaker 1: be some biases in there, you're not dealing with like
Speaker 1: one hundred years worth of social innovation being lost, you know,
Speaker 1: by reading a really old one. So you know, if
Speaker 1: you if you're looking for a translation you don't want
Speaker 1: to spend money, or you can't spend money, check out
Speaker 1: Poetry and Translation if they have what you're looking for,
Speaker 1: or THEOI dot com or you know, it's always going
Speaker 1: there's always going to be something. It is inevitable, even
Speaker 1: if you're reading it. You know, something translated by like
Speaker 1: literally anyone is going to have some kind of bias involved.
Speaker 1: It just sort of depends on what type you want.
Speaker 1: That's why I look for those written by women or
Speaker 1: translated by women rather because I'd rather have that, Like
Speaker 1: I'll be blunt about it. If I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: read something with a bias. I want to read it
Speaker 1: by a woman like. Sorry, I don't really like I'm
Speaker 1: not going to pretend, you know that anyone can can
Speaker 1: interpret this stuff without a bias. Obviously I have one too.
Speaker 1: I just happen to think that it's a pretty good one,
Speaker 1: you know, just equality weird. Yeah, so you know, but
Speaker 1: I do think it's a great question. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: hope that was helpful. Thank you all so much for listening.
Speaker 1: I wish I was in a better headspace to answer
Speaker 1: these questions because I feel like I've just not been
Speaker 1: able to think for the past couple of months. Really,
Speaker 1: But here we are. It had to happen. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: been a time. Like I said last week, I've been
Speaker 1: recording a bunch of things up front so that I
Speaker 1: can kind of escape my life for a little while.
Speaker 1: And I'm really hoping to be in some kind of
Speaker 1: good shape when I come back and return full force
Speaker 1: to having fun with the podcast and being able to
Speaker 1: write entertaining and smart things and have my brain actually work.
Speaker 1: But it's just been one thing after the other since
Speaker 1: it's like October, and I just need to breathe. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I hope you all enjoy this anyway. I hope that
Speaker 1: you found the answers helpful. I hope you enjoyed listening
Speaker 1: to your question be heard. If I didn't get to
Speaker 1: your question, I'm really sorry. There were really so many.
Speaker 1: I always think I'm not getting enough, and then I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, no, there's too many, even for two hour
Speaker 1: long episodes, Jesus. But I really I'm so grateful for
Speaker 1: all of you. I'm really, really so grateful for everyone
Speaker 1: who listens to this podcast, for everyone who writes in,
Speaker 1: for everyone who follows me in comments and emails and
Speaker 1: literally anything, like they all mean the world to me,
Speaker 1: even if I can't answer or read your question like
Speaker 1: I read it to myself, even if I don't read
Speaker 1: it aloud, you know, and it all means the whole
Speaker 1: world to me. I really love hearing from people, because,
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, like this is the greatest job
Speaker 1: in the world. But there is something particularly weird about
Speaker 1: recording a podcast and then just putting it out into
Speaker 1: the world and hoping that people listen, like it is
Speaker 1: an incredibly odd experience. And sometimes I'm just like faced
Speaker 1: with this like reminder that so many people listen to
Speaker 1: me and love the show and all these things, but
Speaker 1: I otherwise just live in this little bubble, and recently
Speaker 1: the bubble just kind of like blew up. And so
Speaker 1: you know, I really I needed to hear from a
Speaker 1: lot of you, or I didn't know, but I did,
Speaker 1: and so these these questions were really helpful, and all
Speaker 1: the kind words and just the thanks. Hearing anyone say
Speaker 1: thank you for this show means the whole world, because
Speaker 1: I really love what I do, but I do need
Speaker 1: to know that people, you know, continue to want to
Speaker 1: hear it and continue to get something out of it,
Speaker 1: because this show is about sharing knowledge in an exciting
Speaker 1: and fun and passionate way, and it can be, you know,
Speaker 1: an odd experience. So anyway, I'm just rambling. I really
Speaker 1: can't think straight. Thank you all so much for listening.
Speaker 1: You're just absolutely wonderful. Let's Talk with Maybe. As written
Speaker 1: and produced by Me Live Albert Mikayla Smith is the
Speaker 1: Hermes to My Olympians. My assistant producer, Laura Smith is
Speaker 1: the production assistant and audio engineer. Select music from this
Speaker 1: episode is by Luke Chaos. The podcast is part of
Speaker 1: the iHeart podcast network. Helped me continue bringing you the
Speaker 1: world of Greek mythology and the Ancient Mediterranean. By becoming
Speaker 1: a patron where you get loads of back bonus episodes
Speaker 1: and more. I'm gonna bring back the q and as soon,
Speaker 1: I promise, but until then, at least I have like
Speaker 1: a good hundred bonus episodes. I didn't even realize how
Speaker 1: many had done. Anyway, I'm consider joining the Patreon if
Speaker 1: you want, but either way, thank you for listening. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Listening is enough. You're the best I am live, and
Speaker 1: I love this shit