Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation
Speaker 1: about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions
Speaker 1: we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a
Speaker 1: therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to
Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to
Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental
Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me
Speaker 1: for session three forty two of the for Black Girls Podcast.
Speaker 1: We'll get right into our conversation after a word from
Speaker 1: our sponsors. Welcome back for another episode of our January
Speaker 1: Jumpstart mini series. All month long, we're having conversations with
Speaker 1: talented black women leaders across creative and professional mediums to
Speaker 1: assist you in putting the p in prioritizing your personal growth.
Speaker 1: If you've been holding back on doing you, this is
Speaker 1: your sign to jump headfirst into the possibilities of a
Speaker 1: new year. I don't think it would be too far
Speaker 1: fetched to say that human beings were never meant to
Speaker 1: see so many people's opinions on a daily basis, and
Speaker 1: yet social media makes this a reality. With us entering
Speaker 1: a new year, I think it's a perfect time to
Speaker 1: begin to reevaluate our relationship with social media. Joining me
Speaker 1: to share more about the relationship between mental health and
Speaker 1: social media is Board certified psychiatrist Doctor Judith Joseph. Doctor
Speaker 1: Joseph is an expert on various media platforms and has
Speaker 1: made national television appearances on Good Morning America, The Today Show,
Speaker 1: CBS News, and War. She recently received a US Congress
Speaker 1: Proclamation Award from the US House of Representatives for her
Speaker 1: social media advocacy and research in mental health. In our
Speaker 1: conversation today, doctor Joseph and I discuss how to determine
Speaker 1: what a healthy use of social media looks like, some
Speaker 1: small strategies to unplug without quitting social media, colde Turkey,
Speaker 1: and ways to avoid comparing yourself to the people on
Speaker 1: your feed. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,
Speaker 1: please share it with us on social media using the
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Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today,
Speaker 1: doctor Joseph.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an honor to chat with you. So I'd
Speaker 1: love for you to take us down a trip down
Speaker 1: memory lane to tell us about your earliest experience actually
Speaker 1: using social media for yourself.
Speaker 3: For me, it was really using my Space Facebook. Those
Speaker 3: were the early precursors to social media, and I just
Speaker 3: remember in college people talking about it and saying that
Speaker 3: it was a great way to basically keep up with
Speaker 3: your friends and see what they were doing, and also
Speaker 3: a way to feel as if you're part of the
Speaker 3: gossip because people were doing hot or notts and things
Speaker 3: like that, so you didn't want to be left out.
Speaker 3: So those are my earlier experiences with FOMO.
Speaker 1: And how would you you've seen that the social media
Speaker 1: landscape change throughout your career.
Speaker 3: It's interesting because I treat children, adults and adolescents, and
Speaker 3: early in my training, we really didn't know much about
Speaker 3: social media and how it impacted children because it was
Speaker 3: so new and right now I'm seeing that the generations
Speaker 3: that were born into a world where there was always
Speaker 3: social media, there was always internet access, there was always
Speaker 3: tech that was transportable. You could have tech wherever you wanted.
Speaker 3: I'm seeing that the data is finally catching up and
Speaker 3: we're seeing some harmful patterns with overuse. And just like
Speaker 3: anything in life, if you use things without knowing the dangers,
Speaker 3: then you don't know how to protect yourself. You don't
Speaker 3: know how to not be as vulnerable. So I think
Speaker 3: we're seeing a lot, especially in my practice, of how
Speaker 3: social media is impacting human development and your well being.
Speaker 1: Can you say a little bit more about some of
Speaker 1: the connections that you're seeing between mental health and social
Speaker 1: media use.
Speaker 3: It Definitely people who use social media to basically communicate
Speaker 3: and to replace one on one in person interactions are
Speaker 3: finding that it's difficult to feel satisfied with these interactions.
Speaker 3: They have this metric, this constant way of holding their
Speaker 3: celves up to someone else. They're constantly comparing themselves to others.
Speaker 3: There's no break. They're bombarded with images and it becomes
Speaker 3: kind of like a new reality for them. So being
Speaker 3: in the real world, being one on one with someone,
Speaker 3: that doesn't become reality for a person if the majority
Speaker 3: of their interactions are online that becomes their new reality.
Speaker 3: And I'm seeing this across all developmental phases. As I mentioned,
Speaker 3: I treat children, adolescents and adults, and children who are
Speaker 3: using social media or social digital means to interact with
Speaker 3: the world. Their brains are just not made for that.
Speaker 3: We were not designed to interact with the world in
Speaker 3: a two dimensional screen. We were designed to be a
Speaker 3: part of the world. And what I'm seeing is delayed learning,
Speaker 3: shorter attention spans, irritability, and poor social reciprocity with the
Speaker 3: younger individuals who have had exposure to digital devices and
Speaker 3: social media early in life, because it replaces and it
Speaker 3: has replaced the one on one rich interactions that we
Speaker 3: as human beings were made to have throughout development. So
Speaker 3: I'm seeing that in earlier ages, in adolescent ages, I
Speaker 3: see a lot of anxiety and depression, and looking at
Speaker 3: the CDC's data, it's very evident that with exposure to
Speaker 3: prolonged social media use over time, people have more anxiety,
Speaker 3: they have more depression, they don't feel as if they're
Speaker 3: good enough, their self esteem issues, and some said show
Speaker 3: a correlation with eating.
Speaker 2: Disorders as well. With adults.
Speaker 3: We're fortunate that the majority of us have had our
Speaker 3: early development not impacted by social media. We had the
Speaker 3: typical experiences. We were out playing outside, we had interactions
Speaker 3: where we had to be one on one with someone.
Speaker 3: If we said something mean to someone, we saw their
Speaker 3: phase reacting and we're like, oops, I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 3: You know. We didn't have that siloed experience where we
Speaker 3: could send a mean text or mean comment and not
Speaker 3: see the person's reaction. So we've developed that social reciprocity.
Speaker 3: But even adults who have had quote unquote traditional childhoods
Speaker 3: are still impacted by prolonged social media use. In some studies,
Speaker 3: it shows that if you use social media for hours
Speaker 3: a day, if you don't limit it to less than
Speaker 3: thirty minutes a day, you're more likely to have depression
Speaker 3: and anxiety compared to people who limit it or who
Speaker 3: don't have access to it. So even as adults who've
Speaker 3: had rich traditional typical childhood developmental experiences without for long
Speaker 3: social media or digital use, even we are impacted. So
Speaker 3: imagine a brain that is developing, that is learning how
Speaker 3: to be in the world, learning how to interact in
Speaker 3: the world. Imagine that brain being exposed to prolonged digital
Speaker 3: technology and social media. We really don't even know what
Speaker 3: the really long term effects are, but we know short
Speaker 3: term studies are showing that there is a delay in
Speaker 3: social reciprocity and increase in depression and anxiety. So this
Speaker 3: is a cause for concern.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so glad did just sharing this with us
Speaker 1: actual Jose, because it does feel like we're just now
Speaker 1: getting some research, especially with young people in social media.
Speaker 1: But I'm curious, so even with kids still kind of
Speaker 1: spending the whole day at school, right, so even the
Speaker 1: school day that is about six to eight hours where
Speaker 1: they may be using some technology but probably not a
Speaker 1: lot of social media, we are still not seeing that
Speaker 1: be enough to counteract the impact of being on social
Speaker 1: media for a couple of hours a day.
Speaker 3: It's not And a lot of schools are adopting a
Speaker 3: technology driven platform for their education. And I know that
Speaker 3: in schools in Manhattan, a lot of the schools have laptops.
Speaker 3: Even children as young as kindergarten age are hiking up
Speaker 3: the stairs with these laptops, right, So they're not really
Speaker 3: getting a respite, they're not really getting that full non
Speaker 3: screen exposure even at school. And think about that. That's
Speaker 3: where they get a lot of their learning, that's where
Speaker 3: they're supposed to connect to others.
Speaker 2: But many of them.
Speaker 3: Are spending time on screens at school, after school, and
Speaker 3: then for their relaxation when they're done with their homework.
Speaker 3: So these are brains that are constantly online. And I
Speaker 3: know it sounds like alarming and it's a cause for anxiety.
Speaker 3: And we are not going to escape technology, but there
Speaker 3: are ways to balance that so that you're not entirely online.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious to hear your thoughts, doctor Joseph about
Speaker 1: kids being bored without social media. So we see those
Speaker 1: conversations online all the time, and this idea that like
Speaker 1: children don't enjoy like being outside and like playing with
Speaker 1: their cousins, like you know, one of our producers is
Speaker 1: talking about e and over the holiday break she observed
Speaker 1: this with people in her own family. What are your
Speaker 1: thoughts about that?
Speaker 3: You know what, boredom is a natural and typical part
Speaker 3: of childhood development. If you look at really young children,
Speaker 3: even younger than two, if you put them on the
Speaker 3: floor and you put an empty box there and a spoon,
Speaker 3: they're going to crawl to it. They're gonna want to
Speaker 3: be curious. That's built into our DNA as human beings,
Speaker 3: to be curious, to be imaginative, to use what we
Speaker 3: have at the tip of our fingers literally and figuratively,
Speaker 3: to entertain ourselves. Because children's brains are so malleable, we're
Speaker 3: learning how to interact with the world. We're learning how
Speaker 3: to explore our senses. That's why children put things into
Speaker 3: their mouths. If you ever saw a small child licking
Speaker 3: on their fingers and then tasting everything in the room,
Speaker 3: it's because they're built to explore and to be curious.
Speaker 3: So when a child says they're bored, that really means
Speaker 3: that they haven't tapped into that imagination. They haven't tapped
Speaker 3: into the creativity. So that's an opportunity for us to
Speaker 3: encourage that, to allow them to play, to draw, to color,
Speaker 3: to build, and that's where they really learn because they're
Speaker 3: learning problem solving, you know, the problem being on board
Speaker 3: what I do about it. They're learning that they have
Speaker 3: that mastery, that agency, and that they can entertain themselves,
Speaker 3: that they can create play And if you put any
Speaker 3: child in a room with another child without technology.
Speaker 2: They'll figure out a way to play.
Speaker 3: I know because I have cameras everywhere in my clinic
Speaker 3: because I treat children and sometimes I want to see
Speaker 3: what they're doing. Sometimes I observe them when they're in
Speaker 3: the waiting area to see, oh, okay, that child has
Speaker 3: their attention improved or their adeges is getting better. The
Speaker 3: anxieties are based on what I'm seeing. And if you
Speaker 3: see children in the waiting area, even if they don't
Speaker 3: know each other, there's there are no video games there,
Speaker 3: so they will figure out a way to play with
Speaker 3: each other. I've seen the most creative things, like kids
Speaker 3: playing as if the waiting room table and chairs are
Speaker 3: like a tent or a fort. They're just built to
Speaker 3: do that by design. But children are not built to
Speaker 3: be on screens all day. So boredom is an opportunity
Speaker 3: for creativity. It's an opportunity for imagination. And I find
Speaker 3: that a lot of the parents that I work with
Speaker 3: they want to solve this issue of boredom. They see
Speaker 3: it as a problem. They see it as being a
Speaker 3: bad parent, like, oh my child is bored that means
Speaker 3: that I'm not providing enough. But sometimes as parents, the
Speaker 3: best thing we can do is just to sit on
Speaker 3: our hands. Literally, one of my colleagues Jactor Harstin says,
Speaker 3: put your hands under your thighs and literally just wait.
Speaker 3: Don't try to fix it. They will figure it out,
Speaker 3: because sometimes children need to figure it out. That's how
Speaker 3: they learn, that's how they grow.
Speaker 1: So what are your recommendations for parents and other adults
Speaker 1: in your practice around how they do then limit or
Speaker 1: take all away any screen time for the young people
Speaker 1: in their lives.
Speaker 3: I think that it depends on the individuals, and I
Speaker 3: use this acronym across the board for individuals, so I
Speaker 3: call it reset. The R is realization is this issue
Speaker 3: causing a problem for you? Because not everyone sees this
Speaker 3: as a problem. Some people think, listen, this is a
Speaker 3: part of my job. I have to be online. I
Speaker 3: can't get around this. But for others it's a problem.
Speaker 3: And some people will say my partner says that I'm
Speaker 3: always on my device, or my child always says that
Speaker 3: I don't have time to play, or they realize that
Speaker 3: they're not feeling fulfilled. They feel anxious and depressed if
Speaker 3: they're distracted by tech. So realize, if this is an
Speaker 3: issue for you, you may not be able to identify
Speaker 3: it on your own. There are online tests that you
Speaker 3: can use to see if you have a social media
Speaker 3: habit that is unhealthy and that may be able to
Speaker 3: give you that feedback. And the second the E and
Speaker 3: RESET is educate. Learn about the resources out there. There
Speaker 3: are studies the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association,
Speaker 3: American Pediatric Association. They give you guideline. There are recent
Speaker 3: CDC studies that tell you about what the impact of
Speaker 3: social media is on the child and adult brain and
Speaker 3: your mood and your behavior, So learn about it. They're
Speaker 3: excellent podcasts out there and communities that are devoted to
Speaker 3: educating people about this. So really educate yourself. And then
Speaker 3: the US is a solution or a strategy. So you
Speaker 3: want to figure out what is workable for you, right,
Speaker 3: like what is feasible because many of us, if you're
Speaker 3: in marketing like a lot of my clients, or if
Speaker 3: you are in media, a lot of times you can't
Speaker 3: just tune it out completely, so you're going to have
Speaker 3: a different benchmark compared to someone else. You're going to
Speaker 3: have another measure, and so figure out what it is
Speaker 3: for you. With the families that I work with, sometimes
Speaker 3: it's like okay after seven pm, no devices, or they'll
Speaker 3: turn the internet off in their home. And for some others,
Speaker 3: students that I work with, it's okay, I'm going to
Speaker 3: allot this time to that time to not be on
Speaker 3: a device, and I'm going to be doing something else pleasurable,
Speaker 3: like exercising, reading, seeing friends one on one.
Speaker 2: You have to come up with a strategy for yourself.
Speaker 3: For others, it's you know, new parents who are expecting
Speaker 3: their first child. They come up with a plan together
Speaker 3: that Okay, we're both going to stay on task with this.
Speaker 3: We're not going to let the child be on a
Speaker 3: screen earlier than age two. We're going to follow these guidelines.
Speaker 3: You have to come up with the strategy that works
Speaker 3: for you, and then you know the E and reset
Speaker 3: is what is your expectation? What are you hoping? So
Speaker 3: like the second E, what are you hoping to gain
Speaker 3: from this? Are you hoping to feel better? Are you
Speaker 3: hoping to have less anxiety, less depression, better sleep because
Speaker 3: social media use and digital use is associated with poor sleep.
Speaker 3: Are you hoping to have more meaningful relationships morituc relationships
Speaker 3: and communication? So what are your expectations? Because you need
Speaker 3: a way to figure out if you're making progress in
Speaker 3: the direction that you want to go into. And then
Speaker 3: the T is the thoughtfulness reflect on it. How is
Speaker 3: this making you feel? I don't think we spend enough
Speaker 3: time thinking about how we feel. A part of that
Speaker 3: is technology. You know, we depend on mes and feedback
Speaker 3: online to tell us how to feel, but we lose
Speaker 3: sense of who we are, We lose a sense of
Speaker 3: our own inner barometer for how we feel. So just
Speaker 3: reflect on the process. So really be thoughtful. Did it work?
Speaker 3: Did it not work? Do you need a bit of tweaking?
Speaker 3: Is there trial and error that needs to be done?
Speaker 3: And the thoughtfulness part also plays a role when you're
Speaker 3: thinking about what are you going to do with this
Speaker 3: extra time? Are you going to use this time as
Speaker 3: a family to say, listen, we now have this pocket
Speaker 3: of time to use, let's spend time together, let's all
Speaker 3: vote on it. Or as an individual, what am I
Speaker 3: going to do with this time to make it meaningful,
Speaker 3: to make it so that I'm not replacing this unhealthy
Speaker 3: habit with another unhealthy habit. Right, that's the thoughtfulness part.
Speaker 3: So the R and the tea at the end of
Speaker 3: reset are very very introspective, reflective insightful type of practices
Speaker 3: because I feel like we do have to spend time
Speaker 3: with ourselves, with our thoughts, practicing, you know, sitting still
Speaker 3: in how this process makes us feel. Because when we
Speaker 3: are in tune with how we feel, we make better
Speaker 3: decisions for ourselves.
Speaker 1: I love that. Thank you so much, doctor Joseph. So
Speaker 1: that is your own framework that you've come up with,
Speaker 1: the reset framework.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: It is based on evidence based medicine and literature and
Speaker 3: so forth. And I mean, I give a lot of
Speaker 3: talks to organizations and zoom fatigue comes up a lot,
Speaker 3: and people don't know that there's an entire center at
Speaker 3: Stanford dedicated to zoom fatigue. I'll encourage people to go
Speaker 3: on that website and do the zoom fatigue tests, and
Speaker 3: people are like, oh my gosh, I have zoom fatigue.
Speaker 2: This is real. It's not just me.
Speaker 3: It's not just me feeling a natural looking at someone's
Speaker 3: eyes the entire time. We're not meant to look at
Speaker 3: people's eyes all the time. But if you don't do it,
Speaker 3: then you appear to be not interested.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We're not supposed to be planted on a desk looking
Speaker 3: at a computer at the entire time. We're supposed to be
Speaker 3: up and walking, right, but being online takes that away
Speaker 3: from us. We weren't built to respond to emails when
Speaker 3: they come in right away. Years ago, if the mail
Speaker 3: came in, there was always gonna be more male. So
Speaker 3: you can't rush and open them all because there's always
Speaker 3: gonna be more male. But there's something about seeing those
Speaker 3: unopen boxes that drives us crazy. Right, so we have
Speaker 3: to acknowledge us why I say at the beginning and
Speaker 3: the end of rest are really reflective, because we just
Speaker 3: get so accustomed to the rat race that it becomes
Speaker 3: the norm, and we are gaslining ourselves into believing that
Speaker 3: this is normal, and that's something's wrong with us when
Speaker 3: we're exhausted and burnt out. No, this is not how
Speaker 3: our brains were made. We were meant to be out gathering, hunting, collecting,
Speaker 3: interacting with each other, singing songs. We're not doing that anymore,
Speaker 3: and these screens are replacing it. But we can't discount
Speaker 3: the fact that these screens have also improved our lives.
Speaker 3: We just have to figure out how to make it
Speaker 3: work for us using evidence based information.
Speaker 1: You know, doctor Joseph, as you're talking I am thinking
Speaker 1: about how many more concerns and difficulties have been introduced
Speaker 1: into our jobs as mental health professionals and to all
Speaker 1: of our lives just by the advert of technology. Right,
Speaker 1: Just this idea that zoom fatigue fifteen years ago, like
Speaker 1: that center wouldn't have existed, right. So it definitely feels
Speaker 1: like to your point, there have been so many advantages
Speaker 1: and so many great things that have come with technology,
Speaker 1: but there's also the other side of it, right, that
Speaker 1: it has caused all of these difficulties. And even the
Speaker 1: way we talk about social media like needing a detox
Speaker 1: and all of these things. Can you talk about some
Speaker 1: of the addictive properties that exist within social media, like
Speaker 1: is it something that somebody can actually become addicted to?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: There are many centers that research social media addiction. There's
Speaker 3: a social media Addiction scale I believe it was developed
Speaker 3: by I think Bergen, and then there's Internet Addiction Scale
Speaker 3: by Young And there are centers that study this that
Speaker 3: have created cognitive behavioral therapy for this type of addiction
Speaker 3: because it is real behaviors are capable of having tolerance
Speaker 3: and dependence. People have withdrawal just like they would with
Speaker 3: the substance when they don't have access to the behavior
Speaker 3: that they've become addicted to. And so the things that
Speaker 3: make social media very addictive is the fact that we
Speaker 3: have access to it. When you look at any substance treatment,
Speaker 3: you'll see that access is the first step. If someone
Speaker 3: who uses has access, then that's a problem. And guess what,
Speaker 3: we have access all the time. I just told you
Speaker 3: I had to silence three devices. I have access to
Speaker 3: three devices. I remember when I had the Nokia and
Speaker 3: the flip phone. It wasn't as seamless. And that's the
Speaker 3: other issue. The experience is so seamless. We praise these
Speaker 3: devices that just get us right. We don't want something
Speaker 3: that's clunky. But the problem is that when you have access,
Speaker 3: it's seamless, it's easy to get your high, so to speak.
Speaker 3: Then it's habit forming. And then with most of the
Speaker 3: substances that I see, at least in my practice, there
Speaker 3: tends to be something missing. There tends to be something
Speaker 3: in the person that has to find comfort in overuse
Speaker 3: of anything. Right. So it could be trauma that's unresolved.
Speaker 3: It could be a lack of meat full connections. It
Speaker 3: could be a replacement for feeling lonely, so there tends
Speaker 3: to be something else. And so I find that people
Speaker 3: who have a harder time with finding balance in their use.
Speaker 3: And so we want to understand that a bit more
Speaker 3: because I want to tailor my treatment to the individual
Speaker 3: and not just say, well it's because everyone's like this,
Speaker 3: or everyone has a childhood trauma or everyone. We want
Speaker 3: to understand what's happening with each person. And that's why
Speaker 3: the beginning and end of RESET are reflective, because I
Speaker 3: want you to really understand what's happening in you and
Speaker 3: why that there's this need to soothe in a healthy way.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if you can dig a little more
Speaker 1: into that for us, doctor Joseph, Like, what kinds of
Speaker 1: questions would somebody ask for them to be able to
Speaker 1: uncover whether there is some concern around their social media usage?
Speaker 1: Because you said sometimes other people will see it, right,
Speaker 1: like your kids will say like, Mama, never see your face,
Speaker 1: you always on your phone or whatever. But what are
Speaker 1: some questions we can ask ourselves to examine our relationship.
Speaker 3: Well, I say that understanding how you feel is sometimes
Speaker 3: the most challenging part. And so when I ask my patients,
Speaker 3: what do you feel when you're using it, They're like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm bored. Okay, Well let's go a
Speaker 3: step before that. What were you feeling right before you
Speaker 3: were bored? And sometimes they're like, well, I don't know.
Speaker 3: And I'll encourage my patients to journal and to write
Speaker 3: down their feelings, similar to the way that with children
Speaker 3: in school, we show them the faces and we show
Speaker 3: them like, this is a sad face, this is an
Speaker 3: anxious face, this is an angry face. Sometimes I have
Speaker 3: to do that with my adult patients and say, well,
Speaker 3: let's use the face shart. How are you feeling? And
Speaker 3: many times they'll say I was feeling anxious, I was
Speaker 3: feeling unsettled, I was feeling lonely, I felt fatigued, and
Speaker 3: I just didn't have anything left in me. So I
Speaker 3: just got onto this device and before I know it,
Speaker 3: hours have passed. So understanding how you feel is important.
Speaker 3: And here's why. If we enter a room and it's
Speaker 3: dark and we hear a scary noise, we're just going
Speaker 3: to start swinging right as if our life depended on it.
Speaker 3: But if somebody turned that light on and we saw, oh,
Speaker 3: a book fell, we're not gonna be swinging, we're going
Speaker 3: to understand what we're dealing with, what we're working with,
Speaker 3: So understanding how you feel is just as important because
Speaker 3: as human beings, we're afraid of the unknown, and if
Speaker 3: we don't know how we feel, we're not going to
Speaker 3: know how to appropriately respond. And that's a very very
Speaker 3: big step. And people acknowledging whatever it is that they're feeling,
Speaker 3: then we work on how do we address that. So
Speaker 3: if it's anxiety, we may want to do some more
Speaker 3: grounded techniques, more somatic or bodily techniques. With my clients,
Speaker 3: the younger ones, I'll have them sit on the chairs
Speaker 3: in my office and we'll practice squeezing oranges with the
Speaker 3: stress balls and so we use a lot of vivid
Speaker 3: imagery with them and get playful. But with my adult patients,
Speaker 3: we'll do some deep diaphragmatic breathing because many of them
Speaker 3: are not aware that they're holding so much in their body,
Speaker 3: that they're holding their breath all day long, and that
Speaker 3: they're not breathing in the way that is the best
Speaker 3: suited a way to release some of that tension. My
Speaker 3: clients will sit and we'll do progressive muscle relaxation because
Speaker 3: they're not aware that they're holding a lot of their
Speaker 3: stress in their shoulders. And so we'll focus on these
Speaker 3: tiny muscle groups and mastering relaxing and tensing them so
Speaker 3: that eventually they can calm down that fight or flight
Speaker 3: sensation on their own and use it and practice it
Speaker 3: when they're not in fighter flight so that they're able
Speaker 3: to utilize it readily when they are in an anxious situation.
Speaker 3: If it's depression. I want to understand that because a
Speaker 3: lot of my clients have something that I call antedonia.
Speaker 3: It's in the medical literature, it's been around for ages,
Speaker 3: but a lot of people don't know what it is,
Speaker 3: but it's literally a lack of pleasure and interest. What
Speaker 3: they'll describe is, eh, I feel this blah. But I
Speaker 3: find that is associated highly with overt technology usage because
Speaker 3: you're constantly online, you're checking emails, you're using these devices
Speaker 3: to give you that boost of dope. Mean, but over time,
Speaker 3: it's not going to make you feel satiated, and those
Speaker 3: are unnatural ways to boost your dopamine levels. And so
Speaker 3: what I'll do with these clients is I'll say you're
Speaker 3: not gonna feel like getting up, You're not going to
Speaker 3: feel like exercise. You're not going to feel like going
Speaker 3: for a walk, but we're not going to wait for
Speaker 3: you to feel like you want to do those things.
Speaker 3: What we're gonna do is we're gonna shift that cognitive
Speaker 3: behavioral therapy triangle and we're going to start the behavior first.
Speaker 3: We're going to have you getting up and walking when
Speaker 3: you're feeling eh, when you're having that in Edonia, and
Speaker 3: then we're going to see how your thoughts and your
Speaker 3: feelings are. Then we're going to track that because sometimes
Speaker 3: the behavior actually drives the thinking and the feelings, similar
Speaker 3: to when people say, when you wake up in the morning,
Speaker 3: make your bed, because it's the behavior that is pushing
Speaker 3: the feelings and the thinking in the right direction and
Speaker 3: not necessarily trying to challenge the thought.
Speaker 1: Beautiful more from our conversation after the break. So, you
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that one of the things that you're seeing,
Speaker 1: especially with your younger patients, is the difficulty with like
Speaker 1: social reciprocity. And we do know lots of people talk
Speaker 1: about like how social media has impacted their relationships, So
Speaker 1: can you dig a little deeper into that, like what
Speaker 1: kinds of concerns are you seeing with some of your patients,
Speaker 1: whether that be romantic relationships, photonic relationships with their family,
Speaker 1: what's happening.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: What's interesting is that Gen Z is the first generation
Speaker 3: to be born into a world where social media was
Speaker 3: always there, the Internet was always there. So they deal
Speaker 3: with these unique challenges that older generations did not have
Speaker 3: to deal with.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: These are people who were born into world where their
Speaker 3: parents were looking at their phones instead of looking at them.
Speaker 3: Imagine that and when you see a baby born. When
Speaker 3: I was in medical school, we would deliver babies and
Speaker 3: from it was just like the most miraculous thing and
Speaker 3: never got tired of it because every baby was like
Speaker 3: a miracle. When the parent held the baby up, the
Speaker 3: baby would start imitating the parent automatically. They didn't have
Speaker 3: to learn it. They learned it from their parents. So
Speaker 3: you would see like the parents making these googly faces
Speaker 3: and the baby would do it. It would be delayed
Speaker 3: because the baby's processing is slower, but the parent would
Speaker 3: stick their tongue out, the baby would stick their tongue
Speaker 3: out a couple of seconds later. So if you have
Speaker 3: this generation where they weren't getting as much of that
Speaker 3: interaction because either the parents were busy with the screens
Speaker 3: or they were getting a lot of their one on
Speaker 3: one replaced with screens. Then you're set up for challenges
Speaker 3: with social reciprocity, right, you're not able to recuse as
Speaker 3: well as a child who didn't have that replaced that
Speaker 3: interaction in real life replaced by a digital interaction or
Speaker 3: a screen. And being aware of this is really helpful
Speaker 3: because many people aren't aware of this. And the other
Speaker 3: thing is that when you're online constantly gen Z I
Speaker 3: find within my practice, they're constantly comparing themselves to other people.
Speaker 3: Generations before didn't have that constant comparison. You didn't know
Speaker 3: what someone was doing all the time. You didn't know
Speaker 3: that people were like having a macho latte and you weren't.
Speaker 3: All of that information was not necessary before. You have
Speaker 3: this generation that's been bombarded with information since they were babies,
Speaker 3: since there were children, since there were teens, and then
Speaker 3: on top of it, they were being captured digitally and
Speaker 3: their information was put up there by their parents. So
Speaker 3: they just have so many more challenges. I have a
Speaker 3: lot of empathy for this generation. I do think that
Speaker 3: they have strengths. McKinsey did a recent study looking at
Speaker 3: generations and how they tend to interact in society and
Speaker 3: what they found with this study that was based in
Speaker 3: Brazil because it had the largest consumer population of multi generations.
Speaker 3: What they found was that this Gen Z population, they're
Speaker 3: more into making sure that their paars are doing well.
Speaker 3: They're not okay with having progress if everyone doesn't have progress.
Speaker 3: They have a lot of strengths. They are more open
Speaker 3: about their mental health and early generations. But we also
Speaker 3: have diacknowledges the challenges that they have and empathize with
Speaker 3: them because they have challenges that we didn't have due
Speaker 3: to their exposure, their NonStop exposure. And we want to
Speaker 3: arm them with knowledge because again, if you know what
Speaker 3: you're dealing with, if you know, oh that's why I
Speaker 3: feel this way, It's not just me. There's not something
Speaker 3: wrong with me. I just didn't know that this was harmful,
Speaker 3: then they actually can do something about it. They can
Speaker 3: make that decision to do something about it. We don't
Speaker 3: want to be preaching and tell them what to do.
Speaker 3: We know that when people are intrinsically motivated to change,
Speaker 3: their outcome is better. When they try to change, they're
Speaker 3: gonna have better results than if we're like, you should
Speaker 3: do this right, and that's all humans, regardless of generations,
Speaker 3: and so we have to make sure that we put
Speaker 3: out that information there. That's why I use my social
Speaker 3: media platform to educate. Sometimes I get a lot of like,
Speaker 3: well what am I supposed to do now? Like my
Speaker 3: kid's been looking at screens and you know, oh great,
Speaker 3: I feel bad. It's not for that reason. It's to
Speaker 3: give you the education because we don't have the education.
Speaker 3: Many of us don't have the time to read journals, right,
Speaker 3: we don't have time to do the research. And so
Speaker 3: learning as much as you can listen to a podcasts,
Speaker 3: read a short article, educational, take an online test to
Speaker 3: see what your habits are like. These are all ways
Speaker 3: that you can have agency and eventually, I think master
Speaker 3: a good balance and then consider a reset and figure
Speaker 3: out how to work with technology to enhance your life
Speaker 3: versus having it potentially harm your well being.
Speaker 1: So you've mentioned this idea of comparison a couple of times,
Speaker 1: and that comes up quite a lot in the Therapy
Speaker 1: for Black Girls community as well. So it seems like
Speaker 1: this is an issue across generations, right, Like young kids
Speaker 1: are comparing themselves and we also have older adults who
Speaker 1: are comparing themselves, Like you said, like who's having a
Speaker 1: lot to you? What kind of workout are you doing?
Speaker 1: Like that kind of thing. What tips do you have
Speaker 1: for people to kind of stop that habit of comparing
Speaker 1: themselves to what they're seeing online.
Speaker 3: So within my reset construct, some of it is time boundaries,
Speaker 3: so you can enforce, Okay, I'm going to limit the
Speaker 3: amount of time I spend on these accounts on social
Speaker 3: media in general, and that could be done very slowly.
Speaker 3: I recommend not doing a cold turkey because again, some
Speaker 3: people have withdrawal, they have FOMO, and so that's one
Speaker 3: thing that you can do. Another thing you can do
Speaker 3: is an account boundary, so like you're only going to
Speaker 3: follow certain accounts that you feel are authentic, where people
Speaker 3: are showing their good and their bad days. They're not
Speaker 3: just showing when everything's going great. It could be a
Speaker 3: full on boundary as to whether or not you're going
Speaker 3: to post, because I think that for many of us,
Speaker 3: it's this rejection that we feel when we post and
Speaker 3: we don't get the feedback that we hoped we would receive,
Speaker 3: or we get negative feedback. So some people are okay
Speaker 3: with I'm just gonna like, use this account just to
Speaker 3: see how my friends are doing and not post about myself.
Speaker 3: That's a boundary within yourself, right within your own practices.
Speaker 2: It could be Okay.
Speaker 3: What I'm going to do is I'll only follow accounts
Speaker 3: that give me meaningful information and not the frivolous stuff,
Speaker 3: because we are not aware of how the frivolous stuff
Speaker 3: impacts us. I love fashion, but sometimes I have to
Speaker 3: unfollow some fashion brands because if I see another perfect image,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be like, oh, like, maybe I shouldn't have
Speaker 3: had that bagel or whatever, you know, like so I'm
Speaker 3: guilty of it too. I have to unfollow some things
Speaker 3: because they're not healthy for me. And so I think
Speaker 3: that we have to figure out a way that works
Speaker 3: for ourselves, that works for our own wellness, that meets
Speaker 3: our individual needs. But that requires getting to know ourselves.
Speaker 3: And sometimes you may need to actually sit with a
Speaker 3: therapist and go over what some of your practices are
Speaker 3: because it's not as readily apparent to all of us
Speaker 3: and we need help. So sometimes I'll sit with my
Speaker 3: clients and I'll go through what they typically look through.
Speaker 3: I'll sit with them and look at the accounts and
Speaker 3: we'll talk about how they feel and what they did
Speaker 3: after or before.
Speaker 2: And so sometimes you do need that.
Speaker 1: Support you mentioned earlier. This idea is sometimes because because
Speaker 1: of what you do for work, you can't just get
Speaker 1: off social media, right, And I'm thinking about content creators specifically, right,
Speaker 1: So this idea that you make your money, you make
Speaker 1: your living based on posting online and being visible. But
Speaker 1: we know the algorithms are always changing. Right. So you
Speaker 1: just mentioned you post something and then you only get
Speaker 1: twelve likes and what that might do to your self
Speaker 1: esteem or your mental health. Can you say a little
Speaker 1: bit about what should content creators keep in mind given
Speaker 1: that they may have to be on these platforms more
Speaker 1: than most people.
Speaker 3: For content creators, know your business, know your industry, you know,
Speaker 3: like researching it and understanding that the algorithm does xyz
Speaker 3: and why it does that. I think that's the first
Speaker 3: step and that's a part of the education, part of
Speaker 3: reset the E. The first E is educating yourself because
Speaker 3: when you know that, Okay, this is not me, this
Speaker 3: is the algorithm, a part of your brain, the unconscious,
Speaker 3: will take that in and you won't feel as bad
Speaker 3: when you have that education and that information and what
Speaker 3: you're going to do with that knowledge is important. So
Speaker 3: knowing that the algorithm will sometimes reward you and sometimes
Speaker 3: will not reward you, what are you going to do
Speaker 3: with that information? Are you going to spend your time
Speaker 3: constantly checking that platform if you know that it's hit
Speaker 3: or miss right? Are you going to take the time
Speaker 3: to say, Okay, I'm going to leave this phone outside
Speaker 3: of my room. I'm not going to keep it in
Speaker 3: my bedroom because then I'm going to keep checking it.
Speaker 3: So what are you going to do with that information?
Speaker 3: Are you going to use it to create your plan,
Speaker 3: your strategy? So I want people to be mindful about
Speaker 3: that and to really think about what they're going to
Speaker 3: do with that information that they've learned. Are they going
Speaker 3: to implement that into their better practices? Are they going
Speaker 3: to create change within their lives? And if they're resistant,
Speaker 3: then I want to understand that a bit more. Why
Speaker 3: are they resistant now that they know this and they
Speaker 3: know that there are options and solutions? What's decreasing their
Speaker 3: motivation to change? And for me as a therapist, I
Speaker 3: like to understand that because I feel like when my
Speaker 3: patients understand that they can make better choices.
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So something else
Speaker 1: that comes up quite often is the level of distressing
Speaker 1: images we are privy to on social media, right, Like,
Speaker 1: there's no shortage of awful things happening all across the world,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you will stumble across videos and different kinds
Speaker 1: of things that I think are often very violent and
Speaker 1: traumatic to witness. What kinds of things or strategies would
Speaker 1: you suggest for people around how to take care of themselves,
Speaker 1: given that you could stumble upon kind of anything online
Speaker 1: At this point.
Speaker 3: It's really a recent phenomenon. When I was growing up,
Speaker 3: we didn't have constant information.
Speaker 2: I saw this meme.
Speaker 3: I don't know who first posted it, but I find
Speaker 3: it to be very brilliant. This woman says that she's
Speaker 3: on a plane and she's afraid of flying, and she says,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna sleep on this flight because I'm gonna
Speaker 3: use all my mental energy to keep this plane.
Speaker 2: In the air.
Speaker 3: And I love that meme because as human beings, we
Speaker 3: are like, well, if I don't follow every news story,
Speaker 3: if I don't respond and champion every cause for this
Speaker 3: specific belief, then I'm failing the group. And it's so
Speaker 3: not true. For hundreds of years, things went on in
Speaker 3: the world and we didn't know about them. It's not
Speaker 3: to say that it's not important, because we do want
Speaker 3: to make sure that we are informed, but there is
Speaker 3: no need unless you are like a journalist who's specifically
Speaker 3: covering a region. There is no need for us to
Speaker 3: be informed twenty.
Speaker 2: Four to seven.
Speaker 3: And collective trauma is real. PTSD that is secondary is real.
Speaker 3: When we see things that are life threatening, that are violent,
Speaker 3: that are just horrifying, we can experience trauma responses. And
Speaker 3: so again that's where the knowledge comes in. I do
Speaker 3: a lot of content about that guard your brain, Like
Speaker 3: when whatever you see leaves a print on your brain,
Speaker 3: it leaves a print on your soul, your spirit. So
Speaker 3: we want to limit it to the best of our
Speaker 3: ability those that exposure to those horrifying images, because they
Speaker 3: may lead to secondary PTSD symptoms, which are poor sleep, nightmares,
Speaker 3: feeling tense, having poor concentration, feeling angry at the world,
Speaker 3: feeling like there's no safe place in the world. For
Speaker 3: some people, it's reckless behavior. Some people feel as if
Speaker 3: they're not in touch with their bodies. They have dissociative experiences,
Speaker 3: and especially people who have a history of trauma. Again,
Speaker 3: if you have a history of your own personal trauma,
Speaker 3: being exposed to these secondary traumas can trigger your own
Speaker 3: trauma response. So knowledge is so powerful. If you know this,
Speaker 3: then you can make hopefully more informed decisions, better decisions
Speaker 3: moving forward.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned doctor Joseph. Then going cold Turkey completely
Speaker 1: disconnecting from social media maybe difficult for people. Can you
Speaker 1: get us started with maybe some no phone zones or
Speaker 1: no device zones that if we want to take this
Speaker 1: first step, where should we start?
Speaker 3: Well, if you're in your home, I say, I used
Speaker 3: to be an anti sociologists before I switched to psychiatry,
Speaker 3: and the most important parts of anesesia were the takeoff
Speaker 3: like a pilot and the landing. Right, So you put
Speaker 3: the patient under, then you wake them up, and I
Speaker 3: say the same things to my patient. The most important
Speaker 3: part of your day is how you start your day
Speaker 3: and how you end your day, because those are the
Speaker 3: times when you supposedly have the most control. Right when
Speaker 3: you leave the house, things can happen, work can happen,
Speaker 3: school can happen, life happens.
Speaker 2: Right, But I hope.
Speaker 3: For many people they have some more power as to
Speaker 3: how they start and end of day. So let's start there.
Speaker 3: Those are the baby steps. When you wake up in
Speaker 3: the morning, and I'll have my clients take journals.
Speaker 2: What are you doing?
Speaker 3: What's the first thing you're doing when you wake up?
Speaker 3: I tell you many people will say the first thing
Speaker 3: they do is check their phone. Right Now, hundreds of
Speaker 3: years went by with people not having a phone next
Speaker 3: to them, So I think you'd be okay if you
Speaker 3: put the phone outside, right, And for many people that's
Speaker 3: the hardest part. They want to sleep with their phone right.
Speaker 3: And so if you can slowly move that phone away
Speaker 3: from you, So the first week, maybe not put it
Speaker 3: on the nightstand, but plug it into the wall. And
Speaker 3: then the next week, maybe not plug it into the
Speaker 3: wall in your room, but plug it into the wall
Speaker 3: right outside your room. And you know, you get the idea,
Speaker 3: you move it further and further away from the bed
Speaker 3: because even that little bit amount of light can disrupt
Speaker 3: your melatonin, can disrupt your sleep. So we don't want
Speaker 3: people having that disruption. And also knowing that the phone
Speaker 3: is there and starting your day that way can set
Speaker 3: you into a mood of anxiety for the rest.
Speaker 2: Of the day.
Speaker 3: So with my clients, I'll say keep the phone as
Speaker 3: far away from the bed as possible and give yourself
Speaker 3: as much time in the morning as possible, because when
Speaker 3: any of us are rushed, things are worse. Being rushed
Speaker 3: is like probably one of the worst ways to start
Speaker 3: a day. And then as you wake up and these
Speaker 3: in Manhattan, I ask people to move the shades and
Speaker 3: get some fresh sunlight because we are living, breathing humans, right,
Speaker 3: we need that vitamin. Do we need that sunlight? We
Speaker 3: need that to reset and restore our inner clocks. And
Speaker 3: drink a glass of water and just reflect and use mindfulness.
Speaker 3: Think about that water, think about it going down your throat,
Speaker 3: think about how it feels. Try to engage your senses
Speaker 3: because again that's the first part of reset, the realization,
Speaker 3: you know. And so if you can do that for
Speaker 3: the beginning of your day and then the end of
Speaker 3: your day, right, I mentioned that melatonin is important, So
Speaker 3: try to keep that digital light as low as possible,
Speaker 3: try not to use any of it if possible after nine.
Speaker 3: For some people who can't do that, they'll use the
Speaker 3: orange glasses that you can buy in the store online
Speaker 3: to block that digital light and try to do something
Speaker 3: relaxing before you go to bed, not checking emails, because
Speaker 3: the emails will really make you anxious if you're checking
Speaker 3: before bed, doom scrolling will make you anxious before you
Speaker 3: go to bed. Journaling is a great replacement. So put
Speaker 3: three things for the day that you're grateful for and
Speaker 3: next to three things that you're worried about, and then
Speaker 3: close it and then put it away, right, So you're unloading,
Speaker 3: unpacking your worries onto something and then also being grateful
Speaker 3: and putting it away. So these are calming things you
Speaker 3: can do at the end of the day, along with
Speaker 3: other things. There's a slew of sleep hygiene things. But
Speaker 3: if you can start with the beginning and the end
Speaker 3: of your day, I think that's a great start. I
Speaker 3: think it's harder in the middle of the day because
Speaker 3: many people work online and they need to check their emails.
Speaker 3: But you know, some small things that you can do
Speaker 3: during your work days. Okay, maybe you can get up
Speaker 3: during lunch, maybe you don't have to eat through lunch
Speaker 3: looking at your screen, or if you don't have that luxury,
Speaker 3: maybe you can at least take five minutes away from
Speaker 3: your desk to go get a cup of tea or
Speaker 3: get a glass of water to go to the bathroom,
Speaker 3: because many people work throughout their day and don't even
Speaker 3: use a bathroom. Inm I study on high functioning depression,
Speaker 3: I see this a lot, people just working through their day, eating,
Speaker 3: drinking at their desk, not going in the bathroom, rushing home,
Speaker 3: you know. So like, try and be mindful about those
Speaker 3: tiny breaks during the day if you can. But I
Speaker 3: feel like you have more mastery agency over the beginning
Speaker 3: and ends of the day because you're home supposedly.
Speaker 1: Thank you for those tips. I think those would be
Speaker 1: super helpful for people. So I'm really curious to hear
Speaker 1: more about this transition from anthesiology to psychiatry. Can you
Speaker 1: give me the short version of that story and what
Speaker 1: prompted that change.
Speaker 3: Well, I was raised in a very traditional Caribbean religious household.
Speaker 3: My dad's a pastor, and mental health was not really
Speaker 3: talked about in a way that being explained as a
Speaker 3: spiritual issue. And so when I went to college, I
Speaker 3: do I studied religion and biology and chemistry, so I
Speaker 3: was like, okay, which is the real thing? And then
Speaker 3: I came to a point in my life that I
Speaker 3: don't have to choose. I can have faith, and I
Speaker 3: could have spirituality, and I can also believe in science.
Speaker 3: And when I went to medical school, I just found
Speaker 3: that I wasn't feeling fulfilled in my field of anti soziology,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to talk to patients. And I remember
Speaker 3: when I was in medical school, before I matched into
Speaker 3: anissiology residency, I did a rotation in South Africa where
Speaker 3: we were working with these children who had severe levels
Speaker 3: of trauma, and we did these trauma based focused groups
Speaker 3: with them, trauma based cognitive behavioral therapy. That was like
Speaker 3: the best I felt throughout all of medical school, and
Speaker 3: I thought, wouldn't be great if I could just do that,
Speaker 3: you know, instead of something where I feel as if
Speaker 3: I'm not really making a difference. And don't get me wrong,
Speaker 3: and sociologists, I have a high respect for them. They
Speaker 3: have to keep patients alive during a surgery and then
Speaker 3: wake them up and then make sure they're not in pain.
Speaker 3: It's a very difficult job. But it wasn't fulfilling for me,
Speaker 3: and I just felt as if I wasn't being my
Speaker 3: authentic self. I was doing what I thought would make
Speaker 3: my parents proud, and in a Caribbean household. If you
Speaker 3: tell them I'm gonna leave this profession where I'm in
Speaker 3: the operating room and I'm gonna go and work with
Speaker 3: people who have mental health issues, They're like, why are
Speaker 3: you gonna go and work with them?
Speaker 2: Crazy people? You know?
Speaker 3: And I had to educate my community that what we
Speaker 3: were seeing in the church, we're calling it spirits, that
Speaker 3: was a psychotic condition, you know, the person may have
Speaker 3: had trauma. And I think that at least within my church,
Speaker 3: it's grown significantly, But there was a lot of taboo.
Speaker 3: And I'm so fortunate that my program at Columbia had
Speaker 3: an opening that I was able to switch from anti
Speaker 3: sociology there to psychiatry and never looked back. Psychiatry is
Speaker 3: so rewarding on so many levels. And I run a
Speaker 3: lab here, so I'm still able to do the procedures
Speaker 3: that I love from antistiology, but I apply them to
Speaker 3: behavioral science, and I'm able to use the knowledge in
Speaker 3: my lab to educate people to make these videos that
Speaker 3: are simple but evidence based and bring science to the
Speaker 3: masses in a way that it's easy to digest and
Speaker 3: they are feeling as if they're going back to school.
Speaker 3: I love when people are like, oh, I'm learning so much.
Speaker 3: That was the point, you know, to make these videos
Speaker 3: that are where you're learning. Because again, if you don't
Speaker 3: know what you're dealing with, if you're in the dark,
Speaker 3: you're going to be afraid. You're going to be swinging.
Speaker 3: But then when you know what you're dealing with, you're
Speaker 3: not gonna be swinging. You're gonna make informed decisions.
Speaker 1: Well, we are grateful that you answered that calling and
Speaker 1: stepped into that for Thank you for sharing with me.
Speaker 1: I can talk to you all day. I feel like
Speaker 1: doctor Joseph, and I know you have a busy schedule
Speaker 1: and have to get back to your day, So tell
Speaker 1: us where can we stay connected with you? What's your
Speaker 1: website as well as any social media handles you'd like
Speaker 1: to share.
Speaker 3: I enjoyed speaking with you. I'm a huge fan of
Speaker 3: your work and so fortunate for doctors like you who
Speaker 3: put themselves out there.
Speaker 2: It's risky, but you do it.
Speaker 3: And it is so beneficial to millions of people. So
Speaker 3: thank you for having me. You can find me at
Speaker 3: doctor Judith Joseph on TikTok and Instagram, and that's also
Speaker 3: my website name. And I started a newsletter and a
Speaker 3: podcast where I can give informative tips that I use
Speaker 3: in my practice and hopefully with your therapist. You can
Speaker 3: use these tips to support your mental health, but we
Speaker 3: will be sure to include all of that in the
Speaker 3: show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time
Speaker 3: with us today.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Doctor Joseph was able to share her
Speaker 1: exercise with us today. To learn more about her and
Speaker 1: the work she's doing, be sure to visit the show
Speaker 1: notes at therapyfroth Blackgirls dot com slash Session three forty two,
Speaker 1: and don't forget to text this episode to two of
Speaker 1: your girls right now and encourage them to check out
Speaker 1: the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
Speaker 1: visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com
Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you're looking for a support system
Speaker 1: to aid you in your New Year journey, join us
Speaker 1: over in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of
Speaker 1: the Internet where we celebrate support and practice vulnerability each
Speaker 1: week this January, we're setting the foundation to turn our
Speaker 1: resolutions into realities. You can join us at community dot
Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by
Speaker 1: Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done
Speaker 1: by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me
Speaker 1: again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation
Speaker 1: with you all real soon.
Speaker 2: Take good care. What's