Speaker 1: Wake that answer up in the morning.
Speaker 2: Breakfast Club Morning, everybody is DJ Envy, Charlomagne the guy.
Speaker 3: We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest
Speaker 3: joining us this morning. We got Peers Morgan. Welcome, Thank you.
Speaker 3: How are you doing this morning.
Speaker 4: It's good to be here. I'm a little bit apprehensive
Speaker 4: because I messaged my sons to tell me the big
Speaker 4: news I was coming on, and well, my middle boy
Speaker 4: is a big fan of the show, and he said
Speaker 4: that you gotta be carefully. He said, Charlemagne is a
Speaker 4: bit of a menace. And I went and then I
Speaker 4: didn't reply, and he then paused and then replied again,
Speaker 4: actually so used so she could be fining. You shouldn't reply.
Speaker 1: You got to be friends, should reply back.
Speaker 5: Do you know who your father is? You know what
Speaker 5: I wanted to always ask you know, and reference to
Speaker 5: that I heard you say once you were hired to
Speaker 5: be controversial when you got the gig at ITV. So
Speaker 5: is my question is Peers Morgan actually controversial or is
Speaker 5: it just performative?
Speaker 4: Well, I don't wake up in the morning and start
Speaker 4: screaming at my family about the state of my my
Speaker 4: marmte on toast, but I am, by nature very opinionated.
Speaker 4: I've encouraged my four kids, who range from twelve to thirty,
Speaker 4: to have opinions about everything. I'ither if you don't have opinions,
Speaker 4: you have a lazy mind. I always believe the things
Speaker 4: I say at the time I say them. I'm happy
Speaker 4: to change my view if somebody gives me a compelling
Speaker 4: argument for why I'm wrong. I have no problem saying,
Speaker 4: you know what, you have a point, I'm changing my perspective.
Speaker 4: But yeah, look, am I controversial? I often take issue
Speaker 4: with that because I don't actually think my views of
Speaker 4: that controversial. I actually think that they're controversial if you
Speaker 4: only judge my opinions by what Twitter now x says.
Speaker 4: But then eighty percent of the public are not on
Speaker 4: twitter x. Eighty percent of the public aren't on social
Speaker 4: media at all. And when I walk around the streets,
Speaker 4: whether it's in New York or LA or it's London
Speaker 4: or wherever it may be, Sidney, Australia, I get a
Speaker 4: very different reaction to the one that I get on
Speaker 4: on the social media platforms where people go everything you
Speaker 4: say is outrageous. Well, actually it's not. I think I
Speaker 4: have reasonably popular views which a lot of people subscribe to.
Speaker 4: I don't I think a bit like you. I don't
Speaker 4: know your politics, but I think like you. I don't
Speaker 4: identify as as left or right. I think I'd like
Speaker 4: to go after everybody, examine their opinions, challenge them, and
Speaker 4: I think that's the way you should be if you're
Speaker 4: in our game. So I don't like to be identified
Speaker 4: into a box about anything so that I look am
Speaker 4: I controversial? I say things forcefully. I expressed my opinions forcefully.
Speaker 4: I don't think that's controversial.
Speaker 3: People.
Speaker 2: For people that don't know who Peers Morgan is and
Speaker 2: how you got into this is there anybody.
Speaker 3: And then you know, don't.
Speaker 2: Know how you got into this entertainment world? Break down,
Speaker 2: how you got into this world, how you started off
Speaker 2: at the sun, and what made you follow this path?
Speaker 4: Well, I was from the very early age, like six
Speaker 4: or seven. My mum remembers me reading newspapers avidly, and
Speaker 4: in Britain, the national newspaper culture is very big. We
Speaker 4: have about thirteen national newspapers, very unusual. Obviously we're a
Speaker 4: very small island by comparison to the United States, but
Speaker 4: it means that the national papers have a very large
Speaker 4: influence over the thinking of the people, and we have
Speaker 4: a wide range of papers, left wing, right wing, centrist
Speaker 4: is something for everybody. But I used to read the
Speaker 4: papers avidly when I was six or seven and read
Speaker 4: out stories to it, so I had this thing in
Speaker 4: my blood. Had a few journalists in the family. I
Speaker 4: just wanted to be a journalist, and I ended up
Speaker 4: going to journalism college, ended up going on local newspapers
Speaker 4: doing all the flower shows, the weddings, you know, all
Speaker 4: the boring stuff but important because it teaches you the
Speaker 4: craft of reporting. And then I got onto The Sun,
Speaker 4: which was at the time the biggest selling tabloid newspaper
Speaker 4: in Britain. In fact, I think it was in the
Speaker 4: world at the time, and I very quickly became the
Speaker 4: show business editor, doing a column called Bizarre, which basically
Speaker 4: did what it said on the tin. It covered the
Speaker 4: bizarre world of entertainment. It was a great gig. It
Speaker 4: was a time when newspapers sold huge amounts. My son
Speaker 4: sold over four million copies a day and was read
Speaker 4: by about eleven to twelve million, so huge audience. And
Speaker 4: my job was to go around the world in very
Speaker 4: nice conditions and interview the world's most famous people and
Speaker 4: to cover what they got up to. And I really
Speaker 4: enjoyed it. Did it for five years, and then Rupert Murdoch,
Speaker 4: who owned The Sun, he flew me to a beach
Speaker 4: in Miami. I walked along the beach with him for
Speaker 4: three hours. I had no idea what I was doing there.
Speaker 4: I was twenty seven years old. And the consequence of
Speaker 4: that long walk along the beach was he made me
Speaker 4: editor of the News of the World, which was his
Speaker 4: biggest selling newspaper in the world. It was the biggest
Speaker 4: sitting newspaper berl It's closed.
Speaker 1: Now And.
Speaker 4: I took on this extraordinary job at a ridiculously young
Speaker 4: age and we year with it. It was nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 1: That was the way before FI.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my whole trajectory from my youth
Speaker 4: on was was to become a national newspaper journalist. And
Speaker 4: I became an editor of the biggest setting papers in
Speaker 4: the country at a very I was the youngest editor
Speaker 4: ever of a paper there. I then moved to the
Speaker 4: Daily Mirror, which was a slightly left to center newspaper
Speaker 4: News of the World with slightly writer's center. So going
Speaker 4: back to what I said earlier, I can. I never
Speaker 4: park myself into either box really politically, and I did
Speaker 4: that for nearly ten years competing against Rupert Murdock. So
Speaker 4: I had the benefit of working for a man I
Speaker 4: considered to be a genius when it comes to the media,
Speaker 4: and then competing against him. And I have to say
Speaker 4: it was more fun competing against him because we were
Speaker 4: the underdogs. We had less money, less staff, less resource.
Speaker 4: I found that a brilliant challenge and then I got fired.
Speaker 4: It was a huge scandal in the UK. The Iraq
Speaker 4: War was raging. I had taken the papers position as
Speaker 4: anti war very aggressively. Tony Blair was the Prime Minister
Speaker 4: in the UK and we were the labor supporting newspaper historically,
Speaker 4: but I went against him on the war, and I
Speaker 4: think I've been vindicated by subsequent events. I felt was
Speaker 4: an illegal conflict. What complicated it more for me was
Speaker 4: my own brother, who was an army officer in the
Speaker 4: Royal Regiment of Wales, actually went on the front line
Speaker 4: in Basra in Iraq at the same time that I
Speaker 4: was opposing the war. So for my family it was
Speaker 4: a very complex situation. As you can imagine, but I
Speaker 4: got fired because we got some pictures. You may remember
Speaker 4: the Abu Grabe pictures which came out of American troops
Speaker 4: abusing Iraqi civilians. They were horrific and we were passed
Speaker 4: some pictures not as bad, but they were pretty awful,
Speaker 4: and we published them and it was said they were faked.
Speaker 4: I've never been fully i think, confident of exactly what
Speaker 4: they were. The story that they depicted was never denied,
Speaker 4: is accepted as being true. It was British troops abusing
Speaker 4: Iraqis civilians.
Speaker 1: And they retracted it all right.
Speaker 4: The paper fired me and then said sorry, but I
Speaker 4: didn't say sorry, and I haven't attracted it. And I
Speaker 4: the more I've gleaned over the next twenty years twenty
Speaker 4: years incredible. Since it happened, I've been told by many
Speaker 4: people in the army that actually they might well have depicted,
Speaker 4: not just depicted, a genuine incident, but the pictures themselves
Speaker 4: may not have been what people were led to believe.
Speaker 4: So I was thrown into the wilderness. My dream was
Speaker 4: over of being a newspaper journalist. I was thirty eight.
Speaker 4: I became the youngest editor to be appointed and the
Speaker 4: youngest to be fired. It was a nice little win
Speaker 4: win at both ends of that career. And then I
Speaker 4: had lunch with a guy called Simon cow Wow, who's
Speaker 4: been an old friend of mine back when no one
Speaker 4: knew who he was. He was a record plugger. He
Speaker 4: used to plug some terrible records and I used to
Speaker 4: help him promote them.
Speaker 3: Some of the plugger is like a record promoter here and.
Speaker 4: Record promotes, and you know, he was an R guy
Speaker 4: basically for a record company. His job was to get
Speaker 4: publicity and stuff behind the records of the company, and
Speaker 4: I would help him do that with my column. So
Speaker 4: we'd established a little relationship which worked for me. He'd
Speaker 4: give me interviews with his guys and so on. And
Speaker 4: Simon Carr took me for lunch and he went, what
Speaker 4: are you gonna do? I said, I have absolutely no idea.
Speaker 4: We were at the Belvedere in Kensington and London, lovely restaurant.
Speaker 4: He went, we said, He said, look, I'm thinking about
Speaker 4: bringing back a talent show. I went, okay, I said,
Speaker 4: what do you mean. He said, well, you remember the
Speaker 4: old Gong show in America. He said, there's nothing like
Speaker 4: it on TV anymore. There's Idol, which is a singing show,
Speaker 4: and he was the biggest TV star in the world
Speaker 4: at the time. On Idol, he said, but there's nothing
Speaker 4: that's like all round entertainment. Any talent will do. And
Speaker 4: he said, I'm going to I'm going to try and
Speaker 4: do this, so long story short, he mapped out on
Speaker 4: a little handkerchief in the restaurant. He mapped out what
Speaker 4: you'd have. You'd have like a mother hen judge, you'd
Speaker 4: have a controversial judge, you'd have a straight down middle charge,
Speaker 4: you'd have a good host and they could do any talent.
Speaker 4: And we then was interesting story behind it because we
Speaker 4: then did a pilot for that which was called paul
Speaker 4: O'Grady's Got Talent. You probably don't know who he was.
Speaker 4: He died sadly recently, but he was a huge TV
Speaker 4: star in the UK, very popular, and the pilot was
Speaker 4: brilliant and ITV the network loved it. It was just
Speaker 4: going to be my big comeback. I was frilled primetime television.
Speaker 4: It's amazing as a talent show judge. And then Paula
Speaker 4: Grady fell out with ITV hurled abuse out them, defected
Speaker 4: to the Rivals and the show got put on the
Speaker 4: back burner, and I was completely disconsolate. Theyka, what am
Speaker 4: I gonna do now? And then I'll never forget. I
Speaker 4: got a text from Cowl about two months later, maybe
Speaker 4: even earlier, saying I've sold the rights to Got Talent
Speaker 4: to NBC in America and they want to repackage it
Speaker 4: as America's Got Talent and I can't be on it
Speaker 4: because of Idol. And I was trying to think, who
Speaker 4: do I know who's as annoying, egotistical, a in jectionable
Speaker 4: and judgmental as me? And your name has immediately sprung
Speaker 4: to my and I was flown to It was a
Speaker 4: crazy period in my life. I was flown to La
Speaker 4: Simon picked me up and he's Bentley at the airport.
Speaker 4: The next day, I met with two NBC executives who'd
Speaker 4: never heard of me. I had to sell myself, it said,
Speaker 4: just bullshit them like you normally would, which I did
Speaker 4: obviously quite as successfully, because the next thing is two
Speaker 4: weeks later, I'm on the Paramount movie lot with the
Speaker 4: famous Melrose Gates in La in a trailer next to
Speaker 4: David Hasselhoff with Regis Philbin down the alley, and I'm
Speaker 4: in this show America's got talent now. He said to me,
Speaker 4: cal don't get too excited because most shows open and bomb, right,
Speaker 4: So you got a kind of three and thirty chance,
Speaker 4: all right, that's it. The rest just get tanked. So
Speaker 4: just enjoy it, have fun. And he said, and be
Speaker 4: right with your judgments eighty percent of a time. If
Speaker 4: you do that, it can be as mean as you want.
Speaker 4: But if you're wrong and the public at home don't
Speaker 4: agree with you, the mean act doesn't play cudge right.
Speaker 4: But if you if you're tough but right, and the
Speaker 4: audience agrees with you, the app will fly. And we
Speaker 4: recorded all the audition shows and the first night it
Speaker 4: went on air, I was in the UK. He was
Speaker 4: in La and he rang me and and he did
Speaker 4: the full cow on me. He said, Peers, it's Simon.
Speaker 4: It's it's not good news. And I went, oh no,
Speaker 4: he said, it's really it's bad news, really bad. I went, oh,
Speaker 4: how bad? You went it's well for me personally. He said,
Speaker 4: it's as bad as it could possibly be. Wow, how
Speaker 4: bad was the rate? I was like, this is okay,
Speaker 4: I'm done. He went yeah, Unfortunately, it's number one in
Speaker 4: the racings, which means you just became a massive star
Speaker 4: of America and I feel like doctor frankenstar. And that
Speaker 4: was that, and that was the start of my TV world.
Speaker 4: So I did America's Got Talent for six years. Then
Speaker 4: I did Celebrity Apprentice with a certain Donald Trump as host.
Speaker 4: It was the first season of the celebrity version. I
Speaker 4: won it.
Speaker 1: Did he really smell? People say he have smelled?
Speaker 4: No, he was always immaculate, And actually I always yeah,
Speaker 4: he smelled fine. He was he was. I tell you
Speaker 4: what was interesting. Someone asked the other day about this.
Speaker 4: He was much more empathetic in the boardrooms for hours
Speaker 4: on end than he's ever been as president. It was
Speaker 4: interesting to watch he stopped that empathy val which I
Speaker 4: saw a lot of in the Apprentice. I don't know
Speaker 4: why it would help him. It's almost like he feels
Speaker 4: you have to be this big, tough guy. If I
Speaker 4: were advising him, I'd say, if you do win again,
Speaker 4: bring a bit of empathy, right. People goes a long way.
Speaker 4: But I ended up winning. That went back on town
Speaker 4: and then as a result of all this, really what
Speaker 4: I wanted to do was to do a big interview
Speaker 4: show and then Larry King stepped down from CNN the
Speaker 4: greatest bit of interview real estate in world television. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and my late great manager, John Ferreta somehow got me
Speaker 4: the gig and we celebrated the Beverly Wolf should Cut
Speaker 4: restaurant with a bottle of nineteen sixty one Chatela Tour.
Speaker 4: I think I paid about ten thousand dollars for it,
Speaker 4: and we drank it very slow slip by very slow sip,
Speaker 4: and I signed the contract which was brought to me
Speaker 4: by the front desk from CNN at about midnight. And
Speaker 4: that was one of the great moments of my life
Speaker 4: and my manager's life, and that took the whole thing
Speaker 4: full circle. Did nearly four years at CNN interviewing amazing
Speaker 4: array of people, and then I came back to the
Speaker 4: UK did the Breakfast Show. Just to be clear, we
Speaker 4: had the most dangerous morning show in the water. Not
Speaker 4: you guys, you guys, you kind of date. We were
Speaker 4: properly dangerous. And then, as you may may recall the
Speaker 4: Megan and Harry interview ed on Oprah Winfrey, I took
Speaker 4: a view. I didn't believe a word they were saying
Speaker 4: about the more serious allegations, which I think has stood
Speaker 4: the test of time pretty well actually, given no evidence
Speaker 4: as ever emerged and I got fired again. We'll put
Speaker 4: in the position where either I should apology or I
Speaker 4: lost my job. Now, at the time, we were killing
Speaker 4: it in the rating. We had just beaten the BBC
Speaker 4: for the first time in our show's history. We trebled
Speaker 4: the ratings in five years. We were on fire. We
Speaker 4: were dangerous and narcic, like anything happened. I never used
Speaker 4: to look at scripts. It was just like off we
Speaker 4: went every day and so it was a real shame
Speaker 4: and I didn't want to leave it, but I left it,
Speaker 4: and then I went back to work for my old boss,
Speaker 4: Rupert Murdoch. He was watching a new network in the UK,
Speaker 4: Talk TV, and my show Appeers Morgan uncensored, which was
Speaker 4: what I needed to be without people making me apologize
Speaker 4: to people I thought were lying for saying I don't
Speaker 4: believe them. And that's where I've I've ended up and
Speaker 4: I love it. It's you know we've been on are
Speaker 4: It'll be two years in April. I think we found
Speaker 4: ourselves a voice of being genuinely uncensored, platforming everybody, challenging everybody.
Speaker 4: I love it. It airs in three Continents Australia the
Speaker 4: US on Fox Nation. Here talk to you v in
Speaker 4: the UK, and that leads me to my career high,
Speaker 4: which is appearing on your show.
Speaker 1: You had me on on Sents the two.
Speaker 5: I appreciate that a few conversations, a few questions came
Speaker 5: out of everything you just said. Number one, did Rupe
Speaker 5: of Murdoch ever try to hire you at Fox News?
Speaker 4: Uh? No, it is always about Fox Nation. Fox Nation
Speaker 4: is the kind of subscription platform that Fox has which
Speaker 4: runs side by side with Fox News. I do a
Speaker 4: lot of Fox News stuff, like I'm doing The Five
Speaker 4: this week for two days, I'll go on Sean Hannity Show.
Speaker 4: And but the interesting thing for me is whatever people
Speaker 4: think of Fox News, I'm never put under any pressure
Speaker 4: to tow any line, to have any view about an issue. Nothing.
Speaker 4: Nobody even talks to me. I'm allowed to just be
Speaker 4: me and have my opinions. And I have strong opinions
Speaker 4: about a lot of culture as she's in America, which
Speaker 4: do not sit well with Fox viewers, for example, about
Speaker 4: guns and things like that. Nobody ever tries to censor
Speaker 4: me when I appear on Fox News, which is interesting
Speaker 4: because I would say it's more difficult now to have
Speaker 4: that kind of freedom of someone like CNN, where I
Speaker 4: used to work, because their solo, for example, hostile towards
Speaker 4: Donald Trump. If you try to go on there and
Speaker 4: say anything positive about him, that would probably someone wouldn't
Speaker 4: like it. I don't get any of that at Fox,
Speaker 4: and I find that a really just an interesting observation
Speaker 4: for me personally, that I'm allowed to just be me
Speaker 4: and do my thing there.
Speaker 1: I'll let you be pro Trump on Fox, of course,
Speaker 1: no no.
Speaker 4: But I could be critical of Trump too. Is my
Speaker 4: point where I think it would be harder to be
Speaker 4: pro Trump on CNN and get invited back too many times.
Speaker 5: I think I think it's changed now.
Speaker 4: I think it has done a bit. It's good they
Speaker 4: need to because CNN should really be in the middle. Otherwise,
Speaker 4: where do American viewers go to for genuinely impartial news coverage.
Speaker 4: You've got MSNBC very you know, to the left, you've
Speaker 4: got a Fox obviously very conservative. You need to have
Speaker 4: CNN to be impartial. I felt they lost their minds
Speaker 4: over Trump.
Speaker 5: I mean, the reality is all of them should be impartial.
Speaker 5: That would be the booty. It would beautiful if all
Speaker 5: of them were objective.
Speaker 4: I actually have no problem in a country like America,
Speaker 4: a bit like the UK with the newspapers. When we
Speaker 4: had left wing papers, right paper, I used to read
Speaker 4: them all. I still do. I still when I'm back
Speaker 4: in another four or five papers, I read them all
Speaker 4: when I get a flavor for what everyone's thinking. I
Speaker 4: don't have a problem with left wing networks or conservative networks,
Speaker 4: but you've got to have some place that Americans can
Speaker 4: go to for genuinely impartial coverage. And I think in
Speaker 4: the in the UK we're quite blessed with We have
Speaker 4: the BBC, we have Sky News, we have other networks
Speaker 4: which are very, in my estimation comparative to hear, very impartial,
Speaker 4: and I like that.
Speaker 1: You know who used to be that for America. John's
Speaker 1: do it in the Daily Show?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I miss him. I felt he gave up
Speaker 4: that show unfortunately too early. I think John Stuart would
Speaker 4: have been a really important voice through the whole Trump era.
Speaker 4: You know, you needed people's strong personalities through that era
Speaker 4: to put things in perspective. I don't think he would
Speaker 4: have gone the whole way in constant Trump bashing, because
Speaker 4: of course that I've known Trump a long time since
Speaker 4: I did his show. The thing about the Trump bashing
Speaker 4: is it only helps him anyway, right. I mean, I
Speaker 4: had a great conversation with Chris Rock when Trump won
Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, and I went to the New York
Speaker 4: Knicks with my eldest son. Spency was over with me
Speaker 4: and we were just sitting in one of the VIPA is.
Speaker 4: Chris Rock is at the next table in design. So
Speaker 4: we got talking. I said, what are you making? Was
Speaker 4: just happened? The election happened the day before and New
Speaker 4: York was like a mortuary. He walked around. It was
Speaker 4: like this terrible silence everywhere. They were low did this happen?
Speaker 4: And I've been predicting Trump was going to win because
Speaker 4: I've been doing crime documentaries down in rural America, down
Speaker 4: in Alabama, down in Florida, rural Florida, rural Texas. I
Speaker 4: can feel it. I can feel the Trump trained steaming.
Speaker 4: And no one on the coast seemed to have picked
Speaker 4: up on this, and the media hadn't picked up on it.
Speaker 4: They were just like, oh, Hiary, he's going to slaughter him.
Speaker 4: She's the most qualified candidate ever. And I thought, you
Speaker 4: don't understand Middle America and what's happening here. And I
Speaker 4: think and I think the same thing is happening again now,
Speaker 4: by the way, which is why the Iowa result has
Speaker 4: shocked everyone on the coast. But you know, I remember
Speaker 4: talking to Chris Rock and he said, you know, to
Speaker 4: several things. He said, One, fame, do not underestimate the
Speaker 4: power of a television fame in America, he said, Now,
Speaker 4: he said. And secondly, he said, if someone's killed nine
Speaker 4: or eight people, I think he said, don't go around
Speaker 4: saying he's killed nine. I thought that was such an
Speaker 4: astute thing to say. Don't, as we would say in England,
Speaker 4: don't overreg the soufle right, don't exaggerate how bad Trump
Speaker 4: is to score your point or get some clicks on
Speaker 4: social media or whatever. Just give it straight. Examine what
Speaker 4: he's saying, examine what he's doing. Often, what he says
Speaker 4: and what he does are two different things, right, But
Speaker 4: don't over exaggerate, don't over demonize him, he said, you know,
Speaker 4: don't go around calling him the new Hitler when we
Speaker 4: know Hitler killed twelve million people. So I thought that
Speaker 4: was a really smart take then, and I think it's
Speaker 4: a really good bit of advice now for the Democrats,
Speaker 4: which is, if you continue to over demonize Trump, all
Speaker 4: these legal cases against him and so on, it just
Speaker 4: allows him to play the martyr, the victim. It fuels
Speaker 4: his popularity. Even Republicans who don't like Trump are rallying
Speaker 4: behind him because they think he's part of a Democrat
Speaker 4: led liberal media witch hunt. And if you allow him
Speaker 4: to play that card, he's going to win. So if
Speaker 4: you're a Democrat, this is a bad strategy, but you
Speaker 4: have to.
Speaker 1: Hold people accountable or nobody's above the los, no.
Speaker 4: Question, absolutely, but you have to hold both sides accountable, right,
Speaker 4: and Trump needs to be held accountable. But you cannot
Speaker 4: deny that. What's happened in Iowa I thought was fascinating.
Speaker 4: He won across the board, right, I know, But if
Speaker 4: it had been if it had been a Democrat with
Speaker 4: those numbers, trust me, all the people saying yeah, would
Speaker 4: have said very different things.
Speaker 5: More enjoy yesterday. And he said otherwise. He had a
Speaker 5: differ perspective which I didn't think about. He was like
Speaker 5: fifty percent of Republicans also aboarded against Trump, which makes
Speaker 5: it it doesn't make it a slam dune.
Speaker 4: For I love Morning Joe, and I think Joe scarb
Speaker 4: was brilliant, by the way, one of my favorite people
Speaker 4: to watch on television over here. But would he have
Speaker 4: said the same thing if Joe Biden got those numbers right?
Speaker 4: And the truth is no, because of course they were
Speaker 4: tremendous numbers, or we'll.
Speaker 5: Never know because the Democrats don't want to do a primary.
Speaker 5: Right is also not Demira.
Speaker 4: But the truth is Trump. You know, Trump winning by
Speaker 4: thirty thirty points of his nearest rival, Trump having the
Speaker 4: biggest win of any Republican and Iowa caucus ever. Right,
Speaker 4: these are undeniable numbers. And if Democrats want to look
Speaker 4: at these numbers and pretend they're not what they are,
Speaker 4: they are once again deluding themselves about Trump and they
Speaker 4: will be sleepwalking, which sadly, and I know you've been
Speaker 4: quite critical of Joe Biden about his just general lack
Speaker 4: of energy, in general, lack of fire. If you look
Speaker 4: at Trump, you know he's only three years younger than Biden.
Speaker 4: He looks twenty years younger than Biden. This is remember
Speaker 4: that Trump's never had a drink, never had a cigarette,
Speaker 4: never had a drug. I've had long conversations with him
Speaker 4: about his brother who died about alcoholism in his forties
Speaker 4: and made him swear off all that stuff. Right, he
Speaker 4: has an unusual health for a guy who doesn't look
Speaker 4: like an athlete. He's pretty fit, and he's got a
Speaker 4: lot of energy. He can get up there, he can
Speaker 4: rally crowds. He's a very very effective performer as a politician,
Speaker 4: regardless of what you think of his policies. And I
Speaker 4: also think he's shown qualities which are many Americans admire,
Speaker 4: not least resilience. This comeback is making Nobody thought he
Speaker 4: could do this after the stolen election bullshit, after the
Speaker 4: January sixth riots, all that stuff, after the ninety one
Speaker 4: criminal charges. Did anyone really think We've been in a
Speaker 4: position where Trump had a landslide win in Iowa and
Speaker 4: is now in most polls I'm looking at likely to
Speaker 4: beat Biden if he does end up as candidate. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's an incredible comeback.
Speaker 5: Well, it's something we say all the time, right, we
Speaker 5: know that America systemically, structurally is a racist country, and
Speaker 5: I think things like that prove it. I wanted to
Speaker 5: ask you about in Trump twenty sixteen. After you win,
Speaker 5: I can understand the case for optimism. Right, nobody wants
Speaker 5: to see this country far. But it's twenty twenty four now.
Speaker 5: Based on everything we've seen Trump do, all of the
Speaker 5: things you just you know, said, the attempted call the
Speaker 5: country to not anyone criminal charges, you still think he
Speaker 5: should be president?
Speaker 4: Well, it's on a question of whether I think he
Speaker 4: should be. It's whether I think he might be. No,
Speaker 4: I don't As a non American citizen, it's not for
Speaker 4: me to say whether Trump should be your President's down
Speaker 4: to Americans, right. What I do know is you remember
Speaker 4: that last time, after four years of Trump, nearly ten
Speaker 4: million more Americans voted for him second time round the first.
Speaker 4: It was the biggest vote for both sides. Now, Biden
Speaker 4: got a huge vote, the biggest ever. But don't forget
Speaker 4: Trump got ten million more than first time. Right. So
Speaker 4: he is hugely popular with the constituent of American people,
Speaker 4: with many tens of millions of American people, and the
Speaker 4: enthusiasm levels for him with his own base are massively
Speaker 4: higher than they are for Joe bidegre Right. I think
Speaker 4: the Democrats, if they insist on allowing Biden to progress
Speaker 4: as their nominee, are going to hand Trump the best
Speaker 4: chance he has have being re elected. They would say
Speaker 4: the opposite. They would say, well, we beat him last time.
Speaker 4: Joe Biden beat him last time because it was the
Speaker 4: anti Trump vote.
Speaker 1: Not just the anti Trump vote.
Speaker 5: It was like some of the most tragic situations had happened.
Speaker 5: I mean, you had COVID, you had George Floyd. People
Speaker 5: were in the streets protesting like it was a series
Speaker 5: of unfortunate circumstances.
Speaker 1: I think that helped Joe Biden list.
Speaker 4: If it hadn't been for the pandemic, I think Trump
Speaker 4: would have won that last election very comfortably.
Speaker 2: But what do you think about people now who are
Speaker 2: very critical of Joe Biden, which is probably going to
Speaker 2: influence people not to vote for Joe Biden, which is
Speaker 2: pretty much as far as all the Democrats have. So
Speaker 2: it's like even with Charlamagne, he they're very critical of him,
Speaker 2: talking bad about Joe Biden and saying no, you're right.
Speaker 2: It might push people to sit on the couch instead
Speaker 2: of go out and vote.
Speaker 4: Well, I know you endorsed them both last time, right,
Speaker 4: Biden and actually.
Speaker 1: Endorsed Paris, Right, I didn't. I couldn't endorse Biden.
Speaker 2: What do you think about a lot of people that
Speaker 2: are very critical of Joe Biden, but kind of that's
Speaker 2: that's all we have.
Speaker 4: I think it's a bad state of affairs for the Democrats,
Speaker 4: and it's sleepwalking into potential defeat potentially to Donald Trump.
Speaker 4: I think Trump is ninety five percent certain to be
Speaker 4: the Republican nominee. And I think if you have a young,
Speaker 4: dynamic candidate on the Democrat side, then you can draw
Speaker 4: a real difference now between you and Trump. If you
Speaker 4: go for someone like Gavin Newsom, by the governor of California.
Speaker 4: All right, he's not universally beloved for a lot of
Speaker 4: his policy stuff, but I watched him go on Sean
Speaker 4: Hannity Show on Fox News for the hour really interesting.
Speaker 4: The fact that he did it shows he's got balls, right,
Speaker 4: the fact that they had a pretty courteous debate. It
Speaker 4: was very interesting. He's slick, he is, he goold operate,
Speaker 4: He's been governor of one of the biggest states in
Speaker 4: the country. You know, you look at that and you think,
Speaker 4: why wouldn't you want to parachute someone like him in
Speaker 4: to take on Trump with more energy, with more dynamism,
Speaker 4: with more of maybe you choose a path of the
Speaker 4: country you think will resonate with enough people to beat Trump.
Speaker 4: I just think Biden sadly, I don't know him personally.
Speaker 4: I had an amazing conversation with him once on the
Speaker 4: phone when his son Bo died, because Bo used to
Speaker 4: be on my CNN show a lot, and I had
Speaker 4: no doubt from that conversation. He just rang me to
Speaker 4: thank me for a column I'd written about his son,
Speaker 4: and we had a very moving conversation about loss and
Speaker 4: grief and all that kind of thing. And there's no
Speaker 4: doubt he has incredible empathy Joe Biden. But if you
Speaker 4: want to know the problem with Joe Biden, go back
Speaker 4: and look at YouTube clips of him as a senator
Speaker 4: when he was in his forties. There's one in particular
Speaker 4: where he's railing against apartheid South Africa. Is you're watching
Speaker 4: a firebrand guy, absolute firebrand. You'd vote for that guy
Speaker 4: every time. He would get the vote out against Trump
Speaker 4: in a heartbeat. He's not that guy anymore. And it's
Speaker 4: not because he's eighty one. Actually, I've met some incredibly
Speaker 4: rupert murdocks in his nineties. He still has vim and
Speaker 4: vigor and as sharp as attack Dame Joan Collins at
Speaker 4: the Emmys is a very good friend of mine. Right,
Speaker 4: Look how fan fantastic she looks. She's ninety. Right, she's
Speaker 4: nine years older than Biden but has ten times the energy.
Speaker 4: It's not about his age. Trump's seventy seventy eight. It's
Speaker 4: not about him being eighty. Mick Jagger, I met Mick
Speaker 4: Jagger at the cricket in your big cricket fans, you guys,
Speaker 4: I met Mick Dagger at a big England cricket match
Speaker 4: in the summer and he just turned eighty and I went,
Speaker 4: you know, look at you. Compare it to Joe Biden,
Speaker 4: who were laughing. I think you should be president of
Speaker 4: the United States if you're American. Because it's not about age.
Speaker 4: Jagger is only a few months younger than Biden. It's
Speaker 4: about unfortunately, it's about senility. It's about probably a slow dementia.
Speaker 4: It's about his inability to stay on two feet, his
Speaker 4: constant vocal gas and so on, and so it's sad.
Speaker 4: I don't think anyone feels good about watching Joe Biden
Speaker 4: kind of physically disintegrating in front of our eyes. But
Speaker 4: he's still nine months away from a general election and
Speaker 4: then expects us to think he can lead this amazing,
Speaker 4: huge superpower for another four years. He can't, aren't and
Speaker 4: you can't go to karma Harris. She's been a total disaster.
Speaker 4: So the Democrats, if they're not.
Speaker 5: I think she's scared people more than I think if
Speaker 5: he had and you know this DESI for racism and
Speaker 5: sexism comes into play. I think if he has a
Speaker 5: white male vice president, I think I don't think people
Speaker 5: are as afraid of all for Biden.
Speaker 4: You know what, I honestly don't think he has anything
Speaker 4: to do with Carmela's race or gender. I think it's
Speaker 4: because she's turned out to be useless. And sometimes you
Speaker 4: just have to call what you see. I don't.
Speaker 5: I mean most vice presidents are useless, well some of
Speaker 5: them are, and yeah, the job some of them it's
Speaker 5: it's not a great job.
Speaker 4: You don't really have any power. You just take all
Speaker 4: the flight. She's been especially ineffective. Let's put it like that, right.
Speaker 4: I met her actually once. I thought she was very
Speaker 4: charming to me, and I was expecting more. She's obviously
Speaker 4: a bright woman. She's just been incredibly ineffective for him.
Speaker 4: Her pole numbers are just as bad as his, so
Speaker 4: the paraly I.
Speaker 5: Think she's been ineffective because of to go back to
Speaker 5: the fact her race and her gender.
Speaker 1: I think that allow allows her to say and.
Speaker 5: Do things that other vps probably couldn't or even somebody
Speaker 5: like Joe couldn't.
Speaker 1: But she's choosing that.
Speaker 4: I agree, and I don't think she's done nearly enough
Speaker 4: for your community. By the way, I mean, a lot
Speaker 4: of promise came in with Karmala Harris. Where's the delivery?
Speaker 4: I don't see it, So I don't think she's been
Speaker 4: effective at all. The interesting thing about Gavin Newsom, if
Speaker 4: he was to become the nominee, it solves the problem
Speaker 4: of how do you fire Karmala Harris if you're a
Speaker 4: Democrat leader. Because they both come from California, she wouldn't
Speaker 4: be allowed to be his VP anyway as a rule
Speaker 4: apparently in the Constitution about that or the election rules.
Speaker 4: So automatically you solve two problems at once. You get
Speaker 4: rid of this decaying old guy as your nominee with
Speaker 4: a guy half his age and twice the energy. And
Speaker 4: you also don't have to have Karma as VP anymore,
Speaker 4: and he doesn't have to be seen to be firing it.
Speaker 4: So it's an interesting little twist on that.
Speaker 3: What puts you so much into American politics?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Because I love it.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's anything like America.
Speaker 2: I don't think like what like what what made you
Speaker 2: want to jump into American politics and to learn American
Speaker 2: politic because it's a it's a lot of bullshit too.
Speaker 4: When I came to see and then I came in
Speaker 4: sort of that in January twenty eleven, and of course
Speaker 4: we had the election in twenty twelve, and I just
Speaker 4: was covering this night after night to night. You got
Speaker 4: to understand the difference in the American process and ours
Speaker 4: in Britain. The election in Britain, the general election is
Speaker 4: lasts about six weeks. That's it. Prime Minister calls an
Speaker 4: election and within six weeks it's all over. But here
Speaker 4: it basically starts the moment on's ended, and then it
Speaker 4: really starts at the start of election year for eleven
Speaker 4: or ten months. I find the whole process a apart
Speaker 4: from anything else. You really get to understand what these
Speaker 4: candidates are about. There's no escape. In Britain, you could
Speaker 4: actually become a leader of a country. Like Britain, without
Speaker 4: the public really knowing that much about you because there's
Speaker 4: not enough time to scrutinize them properly. Plus the American media,
Speaker 4: when it really gets together and goes after people, is
Speaker 4: it a for mid scrutinizing beast. So I love I
Speaker 4: love America. It's for me. It's been absolutely the land
Speaker 4: of opportunity. I've had an amazing successes here and a
Speaker 4: few lows. And I love the fact that Americans, whether
Speaker 4: you're you know, I've been all around America doing America's
Speaker 4: got talent. You went to almost every major city quite regularly,
Speaker 4: and I just love the difference between the states the cities.
Speaker 4: But I love the concerted view that America is still
Speaker 4: the place if you want to come and be someone.
Speaker 4: America is still the number one place to make a
Speaker 4: success of herself. You know, when I was doing one
Speaker 4: on TV here, I was very conscious. So few British
Speaker 4: people have done that, really, just a handful To hold
Speaker 4: down a nightly talk show like Larry King's old job
Speaker 4: on CNN for nearly four years, it was pretty much unprecedented.
Speaker 4: So I love it, don't David Frost back in the seventies,
Speaker 4: you'd have to go back to. So I love I
Speaker 4: love everything about America and the can do mentality and
Speaker 4: the competition that you had because you got three hundred
Speaker 4: and thirty forty million people competing for you know, these
Speaker 4: prize jobs, and the work ethic. You know, you have
Speaker 4: like three weeks vacation a year maximum. In most European
Speaker 4: countries it's at least double that, right, So you have
Speaker 4: less vacation time, you work harder, you're more competitive, You're
Speaker 4: more successful as a nation than anyone in history. I
Speaker 4: love all that that plays to all my I'd like
Speaker 4: to think of a strong work ethic, very competitive. I
Speaker 4: like to win in the biggest possible marketplace. That's America.
Speaker 4: And I love my own country too, of course, but
Speaker 4: I love that about America, and you lose that at
Speaker 4: your peril, you know. And it's this whole issue about
Speaker 4: democracy in America. Incredibly important to preserve the safeguards of
Speaker 4: your democratic process. When I watched that, generally.
Speaker 1: Well Trump back in well, it's interesting.
Speaker 4: Interesting. The one thing I thought was interesting was at
Speaker 4: the end of his acceptance speech at Iowa, he suddenly
Speaker 4: sounded very conciliatory and inclusive for the first time, and
Speaker 4: I go back to the guy I saw across the
Speaker 4: boardroom on The Apprentice. It may sound trite to do that,
Speaker 4: but you remember, for most nights, for three hours, I
Speaker 4: watched this guy interacting with people. He was a very
Speaker 4: different person, very different, much more charming, much more towards
Speaker 4: them female contestants, towards people who'd had a hard time,
Speaker 4: much more empathetic. We didn't get this brash, often quite
Speaker 4: boorish guy that you see a lot of when he
Speaker 4: was president. I think if you want to understand why
Speaker 4: Trump became like that when he became president, go and
Speaker 4: read his book The Art of the Deal, which I
Speaker 4: read several times before competing in his shirt. It's probably
Speaker 4: why I won it because I used to talk to
Speaker 4: him like it was him. But you know he's he
Speaker 4: says in there, somebody punches, you punched them ten times back.
Speaker 4: That's his natural default thing. He has the thinnest skin
Speaker 4: of anyone in the world, but he has the thickest too,
Speaker 4: so he reacts to everything, but he can soak up
Speaker 4: pressure that would destroy any other politicians. The fascinating double
Speaker 4: skin quality he has. But his natural thing is to
Speaker 4: be a New York real estate magnate, pugilist right, and
Speaker 4: if you take him on, as everybody did immediately and
Speaker 4: tried to kill him off, he will fight back with
Speaker 4: everything he's got. That's just.
Speaker 5: I agree with you when you say the Democrats need
Speaker 5: to move away from Joe Biden. But I also feel
Speaker 5: like Republicans are doing themselves a disservice by not moving
Speaker 5: away from Trump, because it's hard to say you're not
Speaker 5: the party of white supremacy when you're supporting a guy
Speaker 5: who you know didn't attempt to cool his country, a
Speaker 5: guy who says he wants to be a dictator for
Speaker 5: a day, a guy who's talking about, you know, killing
Speaker 5: his political right. More importantly, a guy who said you
Speaker 5: should eliminate the Constitution in order to overturn the results
Speaker 5: of an election. I don't care if you're a Democrat Republican.
Speaker 5: You can't have somebody, you know, a leader of the
Speaker 5: free world who doesn't believe in the Constitution.
Speaker 4: I agree, and I think the other thing you've always
Speaker 4: got to be mindful about with Trump is not to
Speaker 4: take everything he says to you. Now you have to
Speaker 4: are you done? Have to give you a present you shouldn't.
Speaker 5: Take us too, literally, because we're does media presonality.
Speaker 4: Definitely take us No, I think if you look at
Speaker 4: look at for example, the other day in Iowa. Right,
Speaker 4: he comes out with his crack on the either of
Speaker 4: the vote, and he said, look, I don't care if
Speaker 4: you're sick at home, just tell your wife, darling, I've
Speaker 4: got to go and vote. And he said, and if
Speaker 4: it does, if you end up passing away, at least
Speaker 4: your vote wasn't wasted. Right. And why I watch people
Speaker 4: on CNN, my employers trying to be po faced about it. Right,
Speaker 4: he's basically risking the lives of people in Iowa. No,
Speaker 4: he wasn't. He was cracking a Trump gag, right. And
Speaker 4: one of his Trump cards literally is humor. Right. People
Speaker 4: in Middle America find him mailarious. Right. People in New
Speaker 4: York pretend not to but probably laugh quietly. A lot
Speaker 4: of the stuff, A lot of the other characters candidate
Speaker 4: seem very double by confimence A.
Speaker 5: Free world, tap three funny if people on.
Speaker 4: The plane, yes, I agree, so so, but also you
Speaker 4: know you're gonna remember becomes from a business real estate
Speaker 4: in New York, where bullshitting is an artful right. That's
Speaker 4: what they do, right, They just try pers way people
Speaker 4: something's worth well, it's not. So. His entire life has
Speaker 4: been spent exaggerating, going over the top, all that kind
Speaker 4: of stuff. And I always say, if you actually an
Speaker 4: interesting question for you guys, if you took away all
Speaker 4: Trump's rhetoric, which you can't do, but his rhetoric and
Speaker 4: his tweeting when he's present, take all that away, right,
Speaker 4: so you never actually hear him speak. You just judge
Speaker 4: him on what he did. What did he actually do
Speaker 4: that was so outrageous?
Speaker 5: He implemented, uh, put three conservative judges on the Supreme
Speaker 5: Court perfectly?
Speaker 4: He is right?
Speaker 1: Yes, sure, but they look how.
Speaker 4: Conservatives would say that's an amazing success.
Speaker 1: You will look how far right they are.
Speaker 5: They got rid of real vieweight right, they got rid
Speaker 5: of affirmative action in colleges. They're getting the Vaughton rates
Speaker 5: that want to get rid of the Alton Rasack altogether.
Speaker 4: Hang On, I would say, and I'm not a conservative
Speaker 4: by definition, I would say that they pursued a conservative agenda.
Speaker 4: I think secretive about that. They did what conservatives would
Speaker 4: want conservative appointed, Republican appointed judges on the Supreme Court
Speaker 4: to do. Trump just got lucky that he was able
Speaker 4: to do it three times in one tenure. You just
Speaker 4: got lucky. Right. You could argue with the tactics of
Speaker 4: the Democrats allowing some of those Democrat appointed judges to
Speaker 4: go on too long. Yeah, but they're allowing them to
Speaker 4: die on his watch.
Speaker 5: But the thing that they got rid of directly impact
Speaker 5: you know, people directly impact people that look like me
Speaker 5: and you know, people that I love.
Speaker 1: I got four daughters. You know. Rov Wade is a
Speaker 1: big deal.
Speaker 4: And I agree, I agree with you personally, but that
Speaker 4: is that is democracy, right, what you're challenging. There is
Speaker 4: actually a constitutional right of an American president to nominate
Speaker 4: Supreme Court justices. He just happened to do it three
Speaker 4: times in one tenure. That happened to ask you the
Speaker 4: court conservative, would you have me?
Speaker 1: What did you do it?
Speaker 4: Or you can't blame Trump for appointing conservative judges on
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court. Any Democrat would do the same the
Speaker 4: other way.
Speaker 1: Sure, but he takes credit for rov Wade being gone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and personally he doesn't agree with you, and I
Speaker 4: I'm making assumption here about your view. He doesn't agree.
Speaker 4: I believe in a woman's right to have an abortion, Okay.
Speaker 4: I think it's awful that there are states in America
Speaker 4: which are going to make it incredibly difficult, if not impossible.
Speaker 4: I would counter that by saying, there are many countries
Speaker 4: around the world where it's completely illegal to have an abortion.
Speaker 4: You can't go to Poland and have an abortion legally,
Speaker 4: for example, Malta, I think is another one. Right, The
Speaker 4: UK has some of the loosest abortion laws in the world.
Speaker 4: The current legal term is twenty four weeks or something.
Speaker 5: Right, So any led an attempted call of this country
Speaker 5: to a would turn the results of an election.
Speaker 4: I agree, and I wrote a column at the time
Speaker 4: saying I thought it was a despicable assault on democracy, right,
Speaker 4: and that all plays to Trump is hates losing. He
Speaker 4: got into his head. I think he genuinely believes the
Speaker 4: election was stolen. I think get a lot of people
Speaker 4: around him, Giuliani and other people who were telling him
Speaker 4: twenty four to seven, it was stolen wrongly from you.
Speaker 4: And because of the number of votes involved is like
Speaker 4: forty thousand votes, the tiny number of votes right, which
Speaker 4: he had to in his head to compute into a loss,
Speaker 4: he couldn't do it. And that's a failing of Trump
Speaker 4: and his failure to honor the result of that election
Speaker 4: was a disgrace. And I've told him to his face,
Speaker 4: and he lost his ship in an interview and gave
Speaker 4: it to me. You know, then you're a fool and
Speaker 4: you're this. I said, well, maybe I am the fool.
Speaker 4: But I just think if you're an American president and
Speaker 4: you lose, you accept defeat. I said, there's no doubt
Speaker 4: the American political system is one of the most secure
Speaker 4: in the world. The voting system is one of the
Speaker 4: most secure in the world. So I don't agree with
Speaker 4: him about that. But but it's an interesting but I
Speaker 4: come back to you take away all the rhetoric, actually
Speaker 4: judge him on what he did. He didn't take America
Speaker 4: into any wars. That's a big plus to me, big plus. Right.
Speaker 4: He had interesting relations with traditional American enemies North Korea, China, Russia. Right,
Speaker 4: did that help or hinder American interest? Would Vladimir Putin
Speaker 4: have invaded Ukraine if Trump had still been president. I
Speaker 4: don't know the answer, But he hadn't interesting way of
Speaker 4: going about relationships with these people, which America has traditionally
Speaker 4: been very hostile towards and this. You know, if you
Speaker 4: look at him purely on his foreign policy, I thought
Speaker 4: he was right about NATO, not in getting rid of it,
Speaker 4: but he making other countries pay their dues. They're now
Speaker 4: all paying their dues. Big ticking the box for Trump.
Speaker 4: He was right, Why should America be paying for everything?
Speaker 4: If you're signed up member of NATO and you want
Speaker 4: the American military to come and support you, you pay
Speaker 4: your two percent or whatever. It was right, and now
Speaker 4: they all have to. So Trump did a lot of
Speaker 4: effective things with his barrel like things. He was right,
Speaker 4: for example, to take take on the Germans about their
Speaker 4: over alliance on Russian energy, because when it came to it,
Speaker 4: Russia turned the tap off and Germany was screwed. So
Speaker 4: Trump has these sort of you know, he has these
Speaker 4: instincts if trumpet sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. Right,
Speaker 4: But I don't think he's as straightforward as he's Hitler,
Speaker 4: or he's an angel. He's somewhere in hell.
Speaker 1: Didn't start off Hitler either. I'm sure you've read.
Speaker 4: T He's never going to kill twelve million people. I
Speaker 4: can guarantee he's not going to do that. About Hitley, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: he showed a lot more sign of it than Trump.
Speaker 4: But I think the idea of equating someone like Trump
Speaker 4: to Hitler is stupid. Again, it comes back to that
Speaker 4: Chris Rock thing. Don't over demonize the guy. You may
Speaker 4: have to have him as president here for another four years, Right,
Speaker 4: I would urge Donald Trump to change, right, He's got
Speaker 4: to stop being in defense mode the whole time. Right,
Speaker 4: have a more That's why I come back to his
Speaker 4: speech in Iowa. He suddenly started sounding much more inclusive.
Speaker 4: I want to bring independence and Democrats with me this time. Right?
Speaker 4: Has he learned lessons? Has he does he regret quietly
Speaker 4: what went on with Janeral I bet he does. Right,
Speaker 4: knowing Trump, I bet he does. I'll never admit it,
Speaker 4: but I bet he does. Would he pivot to a
Speaker 4: more inclusive president second time round? Has he learned lessons?
Speaker 4: I don't know the answers those questions. I know that
Speaker 4: his style enrages a lot of people, but it also
Speaker 4: delights a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Then that's a guy.
Speaker 5: But I don't believe none of the bullshit that's coming out.
Speaker 1: Of his mouth.
Speaker 4: What what if I said is wrong?
Speaker 1: As far as what's frust Trump? My reading of it, well,
Speaker 1: even if you.
Speaker 5: Talk about, you know, what he would do in regards
Speaker 5: to Russian and Ukraine. I personally think if Russia gets back,
Speaker 5: I mean Trump gets back into the White House of
Speaker 5: two thousand and four, he would turn his back and
Speaker 5: let Russia do whatever they.
Speaker 4: Want, maybe to Ukraine. But if you judge him on
Speaker 4: what he actually think, if actually judges foreign policy and
Speaker 4: what he did as president, there's none of that to me.
Speaker 5: To me, none of that, all of that failed in
Speaker 5: comparison to how he does not give a damn about
Speaker 5: American democracy. When you got a guy literally saying let's
Speaker 5: get rid of the constitution to overturn the results of
Speaker 5: an election, I'm not like, No.
Speaker 1: I agree, yeah, agreed, America.
Speaker 5: He's the guy who says America first.
Speaker 4: There's a very good argument that someone who does that
Speaker 4: should not be allowed to run against However, your constitution
Speaker 4: makes it crystal clear that he can run again. And
Speaker 4: in fact he's in the Fourtie Amendment.
Speaker 5: The Fourtie Amendment said if you tried to lead the
Speaker 5: cool this country, you are.
Speaker 4: A President's going to happen. The states that have tried
Speaker 4: to play that card, it'll go to the Supreme cool
Speaker 4: and they're going to throw it out. You know why,
Speaker 4: because he's got Republican judges.
Speaker 6: Yes, then he put in plate come you know, you
Speaker 6: know why he was able to because he was elected
Speaker 6: your president of twenty sixteen, right right, So that if
Speaker 6: Americans didn't want Trump as president, don't vote for him.
Speaker 4: And the same applies now. Don't vote for the guy
Speaker 4: because you know what if he com pact the Supreme
Speaker 4: Court with more Republican judges next time, man, that's exactly
Speaker 4: what they'll do, as the Democrats will do as well.
Speaker 5: No, Democrats won't do because they don't have the courage
Speaker 5: to do that. They could have done things like that.
Speaker 5: Even when Barack Obama could have implemented Merritt Garland, he
Speaker 5: chose to follow the rules of democracy because Mitch McConnell.
Speaker 5: That was that Mitch McConnell told him he's too late
Speaker 5: in your presidency to implement.
Speaker 4: That was practical error.
Speaker 5: Yes, because when when Trump got the chance to do it,
Speaker 5: he did it.
Speaker 4: But let me ask you, Mitch mcconaed the encourage that
Speaker 4: you mentioned Obama. So it's an interesting little question. I
Speaker 4: always throw people interest if you guys know the answer.
Speaker 4: How many immigrants illegally did Barack Obama deport in his
Speaker 4: eight years as president?
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I have a guess, no clue, no clue. Interesting, right,
Speaker 4: you don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know it was a lot, but I
Speaker 1: don't know exactly.
Speaker 4: I have a guess.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Give me a number.
Speaker 1: I actually have read that as more than Trump.
Speaker 4: Give me a number.
Speaker 1: I really don't know how.
Speaker 4: Many people did he physically have deported in eight years.
Speaker 1: I have no idea.
Speaker 4: Will give me a number. I don't no.
Speaker 5: I really don't know.
Speaker 1: I really don't know even to begin. I don't know
Speaker 1: his tens of thousands, millions. I don't know.
Speaker 4: Millions, but I read I've read is over three million.
Speaker 4: He was known as deporter in Chief by Mexicans, and
Speaker 4: that was more than Trump. He deported way more than
Speaker 4: he deported, way more pro rather than any president in history.
Speaker 4: Who dropped the most bombs in a calendar year in American.
Speaker 1: History, President Barack.
Speaker 4: Right, including drone programs and so on. Right, who got
Speaker 4: elected in a nine on shutting down Guantanamo Bay because
Speaker 4: as a former lawyer, he believed it was an illegal institution.
Speaker 4: President Barack Obama, What is still open? Today animal correct right,
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I know that
Speaker 4: the general thing is Obama angel, Trump devil. But if
Speaker 4: you actually apply the scrutiny that we give Trump, put
Speaker 4: it this way, if Trump had deported three million people,
Speaker 4: you think you guys wouldn't know the answer. Of course
Speaker 4: you would, right. Nobody knows that answer because nobody thought
Speaker 4: that way about Saint Barack. And I think that he
Speaker 4: wasn't Saint Barack, and Trump isn't the devil. Trump has
Speaker 4: a more devilish way of talking, and he has to
Speaker 4: be held absolutely to account. And it's a very good
Speaker 4: argument to say, after what happened on January sixth, he
Speaker 4: shouldn't be allowed to run again. But he is allowed
Speaker 4: to run again. And in fact, he could be convicted
Speaker 4: of a crime before the election and still be allowed
Speaker 4: to run as pretend, and he could actually go to
Speaker 4: prison and still be President of the United States constitutionally
Speaker 4: from a prison cell. So this is not my constitution,
Speaker 4: These aren't my rules. This is the reality. So I'm
Speaker 4: not sitting here saying you should vote for Trump. I'm
Speaker 4: not defending Trump. I don't I think irrationally. I'm simply
Speaker 4: presenting a slightly fairer argument about why Trump is now
Speaker 4: back in the position he's in and why he could
Speaker 4: win again. Then some people want to present because they
Speaker 4: think it doesn't suit them politically to.
Speaker 3: Say that, how often do you speak Trump?
Speaker 4: I've spoken to him since we fell out over the
Speaker 4: last interview, but I'm sure I will do and I'm
Speaker 4: sure that I had a chat with him before the
Speaker 4: last election. I said after the pandemic star I fell
Speaker 4: out with him when when he did some ridiculous announcement
Speaker 4: that the best way to solve COVID was to inject
Speaker 4: yourself with bleach, remember right, And I read a column saying,
Speaker 4: mister President, your batshit crazy ideas are going to get
Speaker 4: people killed, right, stop it. And he unfollowed me on Twitter,
Speaker 4: which was no big, no small thing, because he only
Speaker 4: followed fifty things on Twitter. Half of them were companies,
Speaker 4: the other most of the other half for his family.
Speaker 4: I was the only non American I think he followed
Speaker 4: on Twitter. This became a big story. I didn't speak
Speaker 4: to for a few months, and about a week before
Speaker 4: the election, maybe two weeks before, I was doing Fox
Speaker 4: and Friends and they said, well, you know, you know,
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, what advice would you give him? And I said,
Speaker 4: I look down the barrel of the camera. I went, well,
Speaker 4: if he wants my advice, I said, it's not too late.
Speaker 4: Just give me a call with the president. Next morning,
Speaker 4: I get a call from Air Force one. I think
Speaker 4: it was I'm miss President in United States. So on
Speaker 4: he came, but nothing had happened.
Speaker 3: How does that come on your core idea? I'm just curious.
Speaker 3: Didn't come on the Air Force one on your call?
Speaker 4: No, it was no cal I never normally asked. I
Speaker 4: happened to be at home with my daughter and she
Speaker 4: just said a hilarious thing. That morning on the school run.
Speaker 4: She was about I can't remember if she was only
Speaker 4: about eight or nine. She said. She said, Dad, and
Speaker 4: she said, you know, I know you keep saying that
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is a unique character. She said, I think
Speaker 4: he's too unique. Anyway. Next day, literally like two hours later,
Speaker 4: we're sitting there and the phone goes and it's and
Speaker 4: it's the White House switchboard putting me through to the President.
Speaker 4: And I said, to it last, can I talk to him?
Speaker 4: I went, probably not a good idea. Probably in like
Speaker 4: a half hour conversation and I said, look, if you
Speaker 4: really want some advice, I said, it's this. You've got
Speaker 4: to start being more empathyathetic. I said, your behavior through
Speaker 4: the whole pandemic has been it's all about you. The
Speaker 4: stock market crashing is is you know it's damaging your
Speaker 4: election chances. Right, you're airing the stupid theories about COVID
Speaker 4: from the presidential podium, which if people listen to them,
Speaker 4: they're going to kill themselves. It's madness. Where's I said?
Speaker 4: You want? You just want to be commander in chief,
Speaker 4: but actually you can be comforter in chief. That's equally important.
Speaker 4: Put your arm around America sometimes right as president, be
Speaker 4: the comforter in chief. Millions of people are getting COVID.
Speaker 4: Many of them are dying right, many of them are
Speaker 4: suffering horrendous problems with COVID. Put your arm around the
Speaker 4: country and be empathetic. You got it yourself?
Speaker 3: True?
Speaker 5: Is it true you applying to be Trump's chief of
Speaker 5: There no.
Speaker 4: Made up. I would never work for him, and I
Speaker 4: would never tell people to vote to vote for him.
Speaker 4: That's not my business. I'm not American. I have a
Speaker 4: house here. I love the country, love the people. It's
Speaker 4: your country. It's your vote. But all I would say
Speaker 4: is that you did vote him in in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4: I didn't, right, And I know Trump very very well. No, No,
Speaker 4: but it's on you, right, It's on you. And all
Speaker 4: I see now is the Democrats whining about Trump's comeback.
Speaker 4: One of the reasons he's soaring back is because there's
Speaker 4: such a perceived weakness in Biden. Biden's approval ratings are shocking, shocking, Right,
Speaker 4: No incumbent president, I think, has ever been re elected
Speaker 4: with these approval numbers. So this is, you know, the country.
Speaker 4: Most people in America think the country's going the wrong way,
Speaker 4: most of them feeling economic hardships, most of them, you know,
Speaker 4: have all sorts of problems with the way the country
Speaker 4: has been run. And they think back to Trump, and
Speaker 4: I think, for all the garbage that comes out of
Speaker 4: his mouth, they look at the way he handled the
Speaker 4: economy until the pandemic and they think, actually, we were
Speaker 4: better off under Trump. They look at his foreign policy
Speaker 4: and they think, actually, we didn't start poking on those
Speaker 4: in all over the place with wars here, left, right
Speaker 4: and center, and they like that. Most Americans I've spoken to,
Speaker 4: you know, they think he took immigration a lot more seriously,
Speaker 4: for example, than Biden seems to be doing. The situation
Speaker 4: everything on the southern border.
Speaker 5: Is everything you're saying is absolutely right, and the poll
Speaker 5: show it what happened, and I always shows it.
Speaker 1: You preachy to the choir.
Speaker 4: When you say to me, Charlamagne, that I went just
Speaker 4: to pull you up, when you say to me, I
Speaker 4: don't think you believe a word of what you're saying.
Speaker 4: All I'm doing is presenting facts. Right, I'm not launching
Speaker 4: a campaign, but I'm pushed.
Speaker 5: Back on just be more empathetic. It's like, now he's done.
Speaker 4: Only because I've seen him be that and he has
Speaker 4: that in his locker.
Speaker 5: When people show you who they are, you gotta believe
Speaker 5: that we've seen enough with Trump and.
Speaker 4: I I agree, and Trump, good, bad, and ugly is
Speaker 4: who he is. He's not going to change at seventy seven, right,
Speaker 4: He's not. So you know what you're getting, you know
Speaker 4: what you're voting for this time. But America votes him,
Speaker 4: and again it's because they want it. That's a fact, right,
Speaker 4: you can't get away from that. That's right. And by
Speaker 4: the way, his his popularity Amongst African Americans is rising
Speaker 4: as Biden's falls. That's incredible. When Biden came on this
Speaker 4: soo right and he studied with you, He's saying, if
Speaker 4: you don't vote for me, then you're not black. You're right.
Speaker 4: It was a stupid joke, but what a stupid thing
Speaker 4: to say, and actually how ironic. Ever since he said it,
Speaker 4: he kind of black votes disappeared from him.
Speaker 2: Right, is a candidate that could beat him? Do you
Speaker 2: think there is a candidate that could be Trump?
Speaker 4: I if I were at the Democrats, I would absolutely
Speaker 4: go for somebody like Newsom.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 4: Yes, he's progressive, but he's moved himself to the center
Speaker 4: very skillfully. This In the last six months to a year,
Speaker 4: he's been to China and met President G. You think
Speaker 4: President G was going to meet the governor of California
Speaker 4: less he thinks he might actually end up president one day.
Speaker 4: He looks like a president, right, He looks like someone
Speaker 4: that could run the country. He's articulate, he's intelligent, He's
Speaker 4: run one of the biggest states in the country. I
Speaker 4: think he has a lot of things going for him.
Speaker 4: I don't necessarily agree with the more progressive stuff, but
Speaker 4: I think he himself has realized his pathway to running
Speaker 4: the Democrats and to potentially becoming president is to move
Speaker 4: more to the middle ground right. And if he does that,
Speaker 4: and he's given a chance to do that, and that
Speaker 4: could be the the options for America between Trump and
Speaker 4: someone like Newson, I think he's got a very good chance,
Speaker 4: a better chance to Biden.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 5: Let's say there's a great black philosopher by the name
Speaker 5: of Little Busy. Yeah, he makes his statement say I
Speaker 5: don't want talk about it no more enough. That's how
Speaker 5: I feel about political conversation. Yeah, but I do want
Speaker 5: to talk to you. Do you regret what you said
Speaker 5: about Meghan Markle in regard to her mental health? Because
Speaker 5: you know, I'm a huge mental health advocate. Yeah, and
Speaker 5: none of us know what people are truly going through.
Speaker 5: Do you believe that you were insensitive to her mental
Speaker 5: health or for people that don't know, what did you say?
Speaker 4: So? She went on Oprah Winfrey in that infamous interview,
Speaker 4: and she made a claim that she had had suicidal
Speaker 4: thoughts and she'd gone to a senior member of the
Speaker 4: Buckingham Palace staff and asked for help and was told
Speaker 4: you can't have any effectively because it would be bad
Speaker 4: for the Royal brand. I did not believe that happened.
Speaker 4: So what's happened? Since this is over two years ago? Right,
Speaker 4: Ever since then, not a single shred of evidence or
Speaker 4: a name of that person has ever been produced. Prince
Speaker 4: Harry writes a book of over four hundred pages never
Speaker 4: mentions this. Didn't mention the racism claims either, it because
Speaker 4: like they never happened. He then said later, I didn't
Speaker 4: mean to say that the Royal family were racist. We didn't.
Speaker 4: It was the media bullshit. You said that members of
Speaker 4: the Royal family. It turned out to be King Charles
Speaker 4: and Kate had expressed negative concern about the potential skin
Speaker 4: color of your baby, which that conversation will have never happened,
Speaker 4: and there is no evidence that it happened in the
Speaker 4: way they tried to imply what Oprah gasped in horror.
Speaker 4: And so for two years the Royal family have had
Speaker 4: to deal with being accused of being callous racist who
Speaker 4: don't care about a young woman's suicidal thoughts and don't
Speaker 4: care that about being brazenly racist about the skin color
Speaker 4: of their child. I said, I don't believe those things happened.
Speaker 1: So you weren't dismissing her mental health? And what you mean?
Speaker 4: And me? And in fact I no, and I went
Speaker 4: on I went on my morning show the next morning
Speaker 4: and spent a minute clarifying my view about mental health. Right,
Speaker 4: I think mental health is incredibly important. People should talk
Speaker 4: about mental health. But on that specific thing, did I
Speaker 4: I repeat it? Is it feasible that somebody at Buckingham Palace,
Speaker 4: at a high level said to a young woman who said,
Speaker 4: I feel suicidal, you cannot get help? And by the way,
Speaker 4: Harry at the time was the figurehead of a major
Speaker 4: mental health charity. Why couldn't he get a help? Right?
Speaker 4: None of it made sense to me. But in his
Speaker 4: book it never gets mentioned. There's not a mention of
Speaker 4: her mental health or suicidal thoughts. Right, there's not a
Speaker 4: mention of the supposed racism. Again, it's like it never happened.
Speaker 5: That's a good point about what you said about Prince Harry,
Speaker 5: so big, mental health a.
Speaker 3: Huge Why do you think she's lying?
Speaker 4: Or I think she's a liar and I think he,
Speaker 4: unfortunately is a liar too. And we saw it again
Speaker 4: this week. They called their daughter Lilli bet Now that
Speaker 4: at the time was an incredibly sensitive thing because Prince
Speaker 4: Philip was dying and this was his nickname for his wife,
Speaker 4: the Queen, and only a very tiny number of people
Speaker 4: called her lily Beet, including him mainly, so he would sign,
Speaker 4: you know, she would sign letters to him Lilybet. It
Speaker 4: was very special. And it emerged that Harry and Meghan
Speaker 4: were going to call their daughter Lilibet. Okay, and then
Speaker 4: when there was a big furiorri about this, they said, well,
Speaker 4: we have the permission of the Queen. Turned out to
Speaker 4: be an absolute lie. They did not have the permission
Speaker 4: of the Queen. Wow. A book has just come out
Speaker 4: written by a very authoritative journeist with full access to
Speaker 4: all the royals, including all the Royal household, and they've
Speaker 4: made it crystal clear that the Royal household said they'd
Speaker 4: never seen the Queen so angry as when she discovered
Speaker 4: they were going to call their daughter Lilibet, her private
Speaker 4: nickname from her husband who had by now died. Right.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 4: So I'm afraid I think they speak with forked tongue
Speaker 4: and I think it's caused enormous damage to the Royal
Speaker 4: family's reputation, not least here and in the Caribbean, where
Speaker 4: it coursed many countries, still a part of the Commonwealth.
Speaker 4: I think a lot of black people around the world thought, wow,
Speaker 4: they're just a bunch of n Steve racist and there's
Speaker 4: never been any evidence. And when I found out through this.
Speaker 4: You may remember a few weeks ago this guy, oh
Speaker 4: mid Scobie, who wrote a book about always supporting the Sussexes,
Speaker 4: wrote a new book about the downfall of the monarchy,
Speaker 4: as he put it, and a Dutch version of the
Speaker 4: book suddenly named Charles and Kate as the people who
Speaker 4: supposedly made these racist from arks. Everyone in Britain went, oh,
Speaker 4: don't be so ridiculous, right, the last two people on
Speaker 4: earth who would ever be racist or say something of
Speaker 4: the negative context about a skin color of a baby?
Speaker 4: And I would ask you, guys, interesting question asked at
Speaker 4: the time. It's a huge ferrari Again, but when you
Speaker 4: have a white father Megan's father's wife and a black
Speaker 4: mother and you're about to have a baby as the daughter,
Speaker 4: is it not a common conversation where someone might sell,
Speaker 4: by the way, what color might the baby be? Is
Speaker 4: that not a perfectly normal question to ask when you
Speaker 4: have white one white parent, one black parent, I would
Speaker 4: say it is you.
Speaker 5: Know you should have on your shoulder, had this discussion
Speaker 5: a great scholar and American named doctor Umar Johnson.
Speaker 4: Right, but what Jesus, what do you guys? What do
Speaker 4: you guys say?
Speaker 1: Honestly, I've never heard that conversation.
Speaker 4: But do you know people in that position?
Speaker 1: No, I've never heard them, because do I do?
Speaker 4: Right? In Britain? Britain is pretty common, right, you have
Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of mixed raised parents and
Speaker 4: then you have a child and it's and they all
Speaker 4: came out and said, well, yeah, we've had that conversation.
Speaker 4: So the question then becomes not the question if that
Speaker 4: was what was said, we don't we still don't know.
Speaker 4: It becomes what was the intonation of the question. Was
Speaker 4: there a negative concern element to that question? Was it was, well,
Speaker 4: I hope it isn't going to be too dark? Nobody,
Speaker 4: nobody believes Charles or Kate would have ever saidthing like that.
Speaker 3: What do you think they're trying to take down?
Speaker 2: It seems like you're saying they're trying to take down
Speaker 2: the royal family and make them look bad or make
Speaker 2: them look keeping.
Speaker 4: Their royal titles, which I think is sickening hypocrisies.
Speaker 3: Wow, why do you think they would want to do that?
Speaker 4: Because I think I have to say I I think
Speaker 4: Mega Markle is a very manipulative person who not at all.
Speaker 4: I think she's been poisonous to our royal family's reputation,
Speaker 4: very damaging to the monarchy. And I'm a huge monarchist
Speaker 4: and support I think.
Speaker 5: You know, I have to ask if she was one
Speaker 5: hundred percent Caucasian, Oh, I would you would you feel
Speaker 5: the same if it was the same rhetoric, Oh my god,
Speaker 5: she was doing the same thing. Would you say she's
Speaker 5: poisoning the royal head.
Speaker 4: Only she accused him of being a bunch of racists
Speaker 4: with no evidence. Well, she couldn't do that, of course,
Speaker 4: so obviously it's only because she herself, right, is what
Speaker 4: she says. She's black, she's from a mixed race parenting.
Speaker 4: She made incredibly serious allegations about the Royal family being
Speaker 4: racist and has produced no evidence. And like I say,
Speaker 4: why did Harry not mention this in his book? If
Speaker 4: it was that serious? He probably loves his family still,
Speaker 4: he hates his family. He doesn't talked to any of
Speaker 4: his family. She doesn't talk to anyone in her family. Right,
Speaker 4: So if somebody from a toxic family herself who only
Speaker 4: talks really to her mother at the wedding, she only
Speaker 4: had one guest, the mother, right. And you know you
Speaker 4: asked me, did Mega Markle's skin color play any part
Speaker 4: of my argument about no right to the point she
Speaker 4: played the race card with no evidence, which I thought
Speaker 4: was disgraceful.
Speaker 1: And there's been no evidence since he was firing her
Speaker 1: up until that point.
Speaker 4: I got on very well with Mega Market before she
Speaker 4: met Harry. I thought she was perfectly nice, right. I
Speaker 4: liked suits. I thought she was good. Yeah, love suits,
Speaker 4: I said, love suits. And so it was never if.
Speaker 4: I wrote a piece which you can go and find.
Speaker 4: On the day they got married, a big piece for
Speaker 4: the male Sunday, saluting this wonderful moment for the royal
Speaker 4: family of the first biracial marriage we'd had. Everyone in
Speaker 4: Britain celebrated this. Britain is he going to understand about
Speaker 4: Britain were a very multicultural, tolerant country. By every poll
Speaker 4: that comes out, people consider Britain to be one of
Speaker 4: the most tolerant multicultural places on Earth. And I would
Speaker 4: say that, having lived there, most of my life. Right,
Speaker 4: we don't have the kind of incendiary race issues that
Speaker 4: you have in America. All the history just doesn't exist
Speaker 4: in the same way. And that's why what happened on
Speaker 4: that Oprah interview was so shocking and so damaging. And
Speaker 4: then the question became, well was it true? And I've
Speaker 4: got to say, sitting here now two years later, no,
Speaker 4: it wasn't true.
Speaker 1: How would she prove that?
Speaker 4: If it was?
Speaker 5: Though, how would she prove She went to somebody and
Speaker 5: expressed her mental health concerns, like how would anybody be
Speaker 5: able to fact check that?
Speaker 4: She just has to give us a name who wasn't Oh,
Speaker 4: got you?
Speaker 5: Got you?
Speaker 4: And she could have named the alleged royal racist and
Speaker 4: let them defend themselves, but instead by not naming them,
Speaker 4: You're gonna remember in the Oprah interview, she said that
Speaker 4: the racism and comments were made to Harry when she
Speaker 4: was pregnant. He said, is before they got engaged. That's
Speaker 4: a year and a half apart. They couldn't even decide
Speaker 4: what year this supposed to have happened. So a lot
Speaker 4: of it just smelt to me of being wrong, untrue,
Speaker 4: very damaging. But no, none of my criticism of Mega
Speaker 4: markus got anything to do with their skin color or
Speaker 4: upbringing or anything. In fact, I would think more of
Speaker 4: her because of her background. I think it was, as
Speaker 4: I wrote in my piece on the day they got married,
Speaker 4: this is a great moment for our monarchy, which is
Speaker 4: a very white family obviously historically right. I don't blame them.
Speaker 4: It's just like a lot of families in Britain. Like
Speaker 4: their family, they're very white. It was great to see
Speaker 4: someone who was not from the normal background.
Speaker 5: Is there really the reason you let go?
Speaker 1: Let go by IV?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I didn't believe her, and I was told if you
Speaker 4: if you don't apologize to disbelieving it. And then what
Speaker 4: they didn't tell me on this ultimatum was put to me.
Speaker 4: They didn't tell me that the night before she had
Speaker 4: written to the female boss of ITV and demanded she
Speaker 4: fire me. Wow personally wow. Right, And they didn't tell
Speaker 4: me that. If I'd known that, I would never have quit.
Speaker 4: I'd have had the public debate. I'd have had the
Speaker 4: argument I wasn't gonna be held ransom by some laying
Speaker 4: princess Pinocchio, as I called it.
Speaker 1: Did you want to quit or did they like no
Speaker 1: force you.
Speaker 4: No, they said, you apologize, so you have to leave,
Speaker 4: so you got fire. Well I could have apologized and gravel,
Speaker 4: But why would I do that?
Speaker 5: You know you won't say it after they make a
Speaker 5: market interview that freedom of speech is a hill you're
Speaker 5: happy to die on and you're off to spend more
Speaker 5: time with your opinions. In this era of everybody having
Speaker 5: an opinion and a voice, should people be able to
Speaker 5: say whatever they want without consequences?
Speaker 4: Well, there are even under the First Amendment, which is
Speaker 4: the most brilliant protection of free speech probably anywhere in
Speaker 4: the world, there are limitations, right, child pornography and so on.
Speaker 4: There are things that you can't say because they have repercussions.
Speaker 4: There are laws that govern these things, right. I had
Speaker 4: an argument with Elon Musk about this, about bringing Alex
Speaker 4: Jones back to x for example.
Speaker 1: Alex Jones a free speech hero. You called him a
Speaker 1: heat speech.
Speaker 4: Must which is And the truth is that Elon originally
Speaker 4: didn't bring him back and said, I don't think any
Speaker 4: one who's exploited the deaths of children like that, and
Speaker 4: he talked about himself losing a child, No one like
Speaker 4: that should be allowed back on this platform when he
Speaker 4: first bought it, and when he did a U turn right,
Speaker 4: I haven't done a utah. I thought he was right
Speaker 4: the first time. You know, Alex Jones is over a
Speaker 4: billion dollars to those Sandy Hook families for deliberately, over
Speaker 4: many years, systematically spreading lies about them to make himself
Speaker 4: very rich. He made hundreds of millions of dollars by
Speaker 4: deliberately promoting lies about Sandy Hook families grieving their children
Speaker 4: being blown to pieces at school. And I was on
Speaker 4: air when that happened. And I come from a country
Speaker 4: where very few people ever get shot dead. I mean
Speaker 4: literally we have. We've had one mass shooting and god
Speaker 4: knows how long. You know, you have one every two days. Right,
Speaker 4: it's a totally different culture. We don't have a gun
Speaker 4: ownership culture. But I remember the pain of those families
Speaker 4: and the fact that this guy was sitting there in
Speaker 4: his Texas studio deliberately saying they were actors making it
Speaker 4: all up blah blah blah blah blah blah for money,
Speaker 4: And there was a direct correlation. He would say his
Speaker 4: stuff and you'd see a huge spike in his revenues.
Speaker 4: And we're talking tens of millions pouring into the coffers.
Speaker 4: By making these people even more miserable than they were already,
Speaker 4: I think it's unconscionable, but it's also covered by the
Speaker 4: First Amendment. Defamation exclusion right defamation is not covered by
Speaker 4: the First Amendment. He's been found guilty of one of
Speaker 4: the biggest defamations in American history, but that alone, I
Speaker 4: don't think he should be allowed back on X. And
Speaker 4: Elon Musk has banned a lot of people from X,
Speaker 4: by the way, so there's nothing unusual about banning people
Speaker 4: from X, even in his free speech world. And I
Speaker 4: think he does a lot of good for free speech,
Speaker 4: Elon Musk. But there are limits, of course there are.
Speaker 4: But generally speaking, if you're not spewing hateful stuff, which
Speaker 4: is good. Remember somebody listened to Alex Jones and went
Speaker 4: to the grave of one of the Sandy victims and
Speaker 4: urinated on it. That's crazy because they believed it was
Speaker 4: all stage. Imagine him being the family.
Speaker 1: Of that child, and then you end up hurting that guy.
Speaker 4: That was the consequence. Others were chased down the street
Speaker 4: with people screaming abuse at them for being actors right
Speaker 4: acting that their child had been obliterated by an AR
Speaker 4: fifteen at school. And you know, one of them said
Speaker 4: to me, I won't say which one, but one of
Speaker 4: the parents did me. You know, they'd seen some pictures
Speaker 4: and that the AR fifteen that this monster had used
Speaker 4: Lanza created holes the size of golf balls in their child,
Speaker 4: multiple all over their body. Golf balls, right, And this
Speaker 4: person decided Alex Jones to exploit that to make himself
Speaker 4: very rich. And I think that's I would think most Americans, actually,
Speaker 4: when you hear me spell it out like that, would
Speaker 4: think that crosses a line.
Speaker 5: Okay, So when it comes to just to go back
Speaker 5: real quick, Trump got taken off platform.
Speaker 4: I thought that was wrong.
Speaker 1: But the same reason though.
Speaker 4: He shouldn't have been because and this is a different friends,
Speaker 4: I think world leaders, everything they say is a matter
Speaker 4: of historical record.
Speaker 5: Now, when Trump's pushing conspiracy theories.
Speaker 4: They took off They took off Trump, and they kept
Speaker 4: on the leader of the Taliban, they kept on the
Speaker 4: I toler in Iran, they kept Vladimir Putin's account. Right,
Speaker 4: So are you comfortable that Trump is the one that's removed.
Speaker 5: But is telling people like you said, they inject themselves
Speaker 5: to kill COVID pushing, pushing YouTube conspiracy.
Speaker 4: Is spewing conspiracy bullshit about Ukraine being a bunch of
Speaker 4: Nazis and the nazifying them. That's true all the time.
Speaker 4: But Tanaban is spewing their bullshit on Twitter, the I
Speaker 4: toler is talking about eradicating Israel.
Speaker 1: So how do you regularly this?
Speaker 4: I think I draw a distinction between ordinary members of
Speaker 4: the public and world leaders.
Speaker 5: What the world leaders worse, because I think we're going
Speaker 5: to have some Aweson world war the.
Speaker 4: World world leaders. I think everything they say and do
Speaker 4: is a matter of historical record. You can't hide it away. Trump,
Speaker 4: I would argue, has got more popular by being taken
Speaker 4: off Twitter.
Speaker 1: But how is pizzagate historical record?
Speaker 4: It's not so people, So I think what Elstone is great,
Speaker 4: He's brought in the community notes right. So now you
Speaker 4: can see in real time under these tweets that people
Speaker 4: put up which our conspiracy theory nonsense, you can see
Speaker 4: the true story immediately that was lacking before. So these
Speaker 4: things would fly around without anyone, you know, being able
Speaker 4: to look at it and see the real story underneath it.
Speaker 1: Nothing that's gonna work.
Speaker 5: It's like we were talking this morning about the line,
Speaker 5: though I don't know because he hears the thing we
Speaker 5: were talking about.
Speaker 4: Take every world leader of acts.
Speaker 5: It depends if we keep on if what they're doing
Speaker 5: that much power, and what they're doing is inciting violence
Speaker 5: in any way, shape or form, because the truth of
Speaker 5: the matter appears people are stupid and like even with
Speaker 5: the water marks and the things that are saying this
Speaker 5: isn't true, people will say they're just saying this isn't
Speaker 5: true because they don't want it to believe.
Speaker 4: I hear, I hear, But it's very different once you
Speaker 4: go down that line, the line I've drawn for better
Speaker 4: or worse, and your listeners can make their own minds up.
Speaker 4: I think world leaders of any kind it's historical record,
Speaker 4: and if you take one down, you've got to take
Speaker 4: them all off, because a lot of them say bad things.
Speaker 5: I want to ask you too about the two thousand
Speaker 5: and four pictures. You couldn't fact check them.
Speaker 4: Then, well we tried.
Speaker 1: It is way worse now, So how do you fact checks?
Speaker 4: I mean, I think the fake news thing, the way
Speaker 4: artificial intelligence can now have someone like me. I've seen
Speaker 4: a clip played at a Ted talk actually of me
Speaker 4: promoting guns. I looked it was me and it sounded
Speaker 4: like this is what I was saying, but it was
Speaker 4: fake and saying the complete opposite to what I was thinking.
Speaker 4: And that's going to happen more and more and more.
Speaker 3: And it's very easy to do now.
Speaker 4: It's incredibly easy to do. You see it all the time.
Speaker 4: It's very very scary, and I don't think anyone's quite
Speaker 4: worked out what you do about this. It's so it's
Speaker 4: it's a bit like artificial intelligence generally. I interview Professor
Speaker 4: Stephen Hawking in the last interview before he died up
Speaker 4: at his office at Cambridge University, and I said, what's
Speaker 4: the biggest threat to mankind? You went, When artificial intelligence
Speaker 4: learns how to self design, it's all over, because they'll
Speaker 4: decide pretty quickly humans are ridiculous and should just be killed.
Speaker 4: And you can tell that a lot of the experts,
Speaker 4: like Elon mask Andals think we're getting quite close to
Speaker 4: that point. It's what they called for the six month
Speaker 4: pause recently, and a letter signed by a thousand of them.
Speaker 4: They know that AI is incredibly exciting and groundbreaking and
Speaker 4: brilliant and can probably save a lot of lives and
Speaker 4: all the rest of it. They also know that in
Speaker 4: the wrong hands, AI can be a lethal weapon, and
Speaker 4: this is going to be the dilemma for this generation.
Speaker 4: What do we do about this? And then go back
Speaker 4: to what you said the internet. I remember the Internet,
Speaker 4: but this is far more dangerous.
Speaker 1: They go back to what you said. I don't think
Speaker 1: any world leader should be allowed to be on social media.
Speaker 5: I think as soon as you become a world leader,
Speaker 5: you have to give it because it's too dangerous.
Speaker 4: Well, that is a very interesting fake tweet the AI.
Speaker 4: I think you're all in or all out. Yes, so
Speaker 4: I'm with you. I would personally still argue they should
Speaker 4: be on, but I think that's a that's a good
Speaker 4: argument to say you take them all off. The world
Speaker 4: leaders can't tweet. They can make official statements, and the
Speaker 4: media can determine how they report those, and if they're
Speaker 4: spewing untruths and deliberate lies which are going to lead
Speaker 4: to potential violence, the media can say that in real
Speaker 4: time because I don't see.
Speaker 2: That's a difficult thing because you always say go where
Speaker 2: people are right, and a lot of people are not
Speaker 2: looking at the news for the press conference.
Speaker 3: It's horrible. We could say it's bad, but people are not.
Speaker 2: People will follow Barack Obama, Donald Trump Biden faster than
Speaker 2: they'll watch a news clip.
Speaker 5: On but those official statements will get pressed, get seen
Speaker 5: that through social media. You know, I just think it's
Speaker 5: too dangerous because if I know world leaders are on
Speaker 5: social media, how do I know this tweet isn't real
Speaker 5: if it's a fake tot? How do I notice ai
Speaker 5: video that's posted on them?
Speaker 4: People? People hear this nuts. It's like like every world
Speaker 4: leader of freedom of speech. But I get your argument.
Speaker 4: I get your argument, and that that to me makes
Speaker 4: more sense than piecemeal taking some off and leaving others
Speaker 4: on where there's a rank hypocrisy. I think you've got
Speaker 4: to have the same rule for all world leaders, right
Speaker 4: because you could. You could, I could, as like I
Speaker 4: did with Obama earlier. You can create an argument for
Speaker 4: and against almost anybody, particularly if they're a president of
Speaker 4: a big country. So I think you've got to be
Speaker 4: all in or all out.
Speaker 5: And I had just a few more questions you You
Speaker 5: you talked earlier about Tony Blair and you said you
Speaker 5: were anti war.
Speaker 4: What was it? The ir War?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Why aren't you anti war now? In regard to
Speaker 1: the well I felt.
Speaker 4: What I felt with the Iraq war was I felt
Speaker 4: that it was America and Britain going after the wrong
Speaker 4: country for nine to eleven and they hadn't produced evidence
Speaker 4: to me that Saddam Hussein o mass destruction and they
Speaker 4: never found those weapons of mass destructions. So the war
Speaker 4: was fought on a false pretext and therefore, in my view,
Speaker 4: actually was illegal. Tony Blair also didn't get a second
Speaker 4: UN resolution mandating warfare, which he thought he was going
Speaker 4: to get, and when he didn't get, he went along
Speaker 4: with America anyway, and I think it was a catastrophic
Speaker 4: mistake that led to twenty years of hell in the
Speaker 4: Middle East, not least the rise of Isis, who sprang
Speaker 4: out of what happened. So I felt there was no
Speaker 4: justification for the war, no moral justification, no actual justification
Speaker 4: presented that was true turned out to be to be false.
Speaker 1: So you're that anti war, you were just no.
Speaker 4: What is the moral justification. So the case in the
Speaker 4: latest stage of the Israel Gaza situation is that on
Speaker 4: October the seventh, Israel was subjected to one of the
Speaker 4: worst terror attacks of modern times. Medieval barbarism involving the
Speaker 4: most horrendous assaults on women, children and so on. And
Speaker 4: they had not just a moral justification to defend themselves
Speaker 4: against that attack and to go after those who perpetrated it,
Speaker 4: but actually have a duty to their citizens to do that,
Speaker 4: not least because her Mass, through their official spokesman, said,
Speaker 4: our intention afterwards is to do this again and again
Speaker 4: and again. Right. So there's a clear and present justification
Speaker 4: morally for Israel to respond to her Mass. Now here's
Speaker 4: where it gets very complicated. A mass have thirty five
Speaker 4: thousand terrorists, as I call them. You can call them
Speaker 4: wherever you want, but to me, they're terrorists, and they
Speaker 4: live immersed amongst a population which is just over two
Speaker 4: million people, of which half are under eighteen and just
Speaker 4: under a third are under ten. So you have an
Speaker 4: extraordinary number of innocent children as part of the mass population,
Speaker 4: but living amongst them, embedded in their schools, the mosques,
Speaker 4: the hospitals and sold We know this from the tunnel
Speaker 4: system that her Mass deliberately created. You have a mass terrorists.
Speaker 4: How do you eradicate a mass thirty five thousand terrorists
Speaker 4: who have done that with out a lot of civilians
Speaker 4: getting killed, and so I've continually been asking and saying
Speaker 4: to people, I have a moral qundary about this. I
Speaker 4: don't know what is proportionate. I do know you cannot
Speaker 4: allow her mass to continue running Gaza after what they did.
Speaker 4: They are a terror group who will commit more and
Speaker 4: more acts of terror. But is Israel's response now, as
Speaker 4: many people claim it's self an act of terror, is
Speaker 4: it disproportionate to what happened to them in October the seventh.
Speaker 4: They've killed many more people, including many more children. As
Speaker 4: a father, it just absolutely destroys me to see these
Speaker 4: scenes coming out of Gaza. But you know, I understand
Speaker 4: why Israel feels this visceral need to eradicate her Mass.
Speaker 4: I do what I don't accept with it from Israel
Speaker 4: is any desire by them out of this to continue
Speaker 4: having an occupation of the Palestinian people. And when you
Speaker 4: go back to the history the displacement of hundreds of
Speaker 4: thousands of Palestinians back in ninety forty eight, you can
Speaker 4: you see that people were oppressed and have been occupied
Speaker 4: and the constant flare ups in this conflict throughout the
Speaker 4: next seventy years or as a consequence of a large
Speaker 4: number of people being very badly treated. But that doesn't
Speaker 4: justify anything that happened October the seventh. So yes, I
Speaker 4: understand the history. But I think the difference between Iraq
Speaker 4: and this is that there's a clear moral justification for
Speaker 4: going after the people that perpetrated it. The problem is
Speaker 4: how do you minimize civilian casualties, which happened in any conflict.
Speaker 4: And I would say the argument that Israel put forward,
Speaker 4: which is, you know, a reasonable argument. Nobody had these
Speaker 4: debates about what happened when we went after Isis in
Speaker 4: Syria or Iraq and many civilians could be many children
Speaker 4: were killed.
Speaker 5: Then well we didn't see it. Social media change.
Speaker 4: Exactly exactly, so we see it in real time. I
Speaker 4: have enormous sympathy for Palestinian people. I think for a
Speaker 4: long time they've been oppressed. There's been an obvious occupation.
Speaker 4: I think Israelis who try and deny that themselves. We
Speaker 4: saw that when they were able to turn off the Israelis.
Speaker 4: The energy supply like that, the water supply like that,
Speaker 4: the food supply like that. Imagine how Americans would feel
Speaker 4: if one of your neighboring countries had that power, you
Speaker 4: would consider yourselves to be oppressed and occupied. Nobody outside
Speaker 4: of America should have the power to do that to you.
Speaker 4: That's how Palestinians feel. And I completely understand that is
Speaker 4: there a war crome. Well, the United Nations has found
Speaker 4: against Israel many times, you know, but to what consequence.
Speaker 4: I'm a lot of sympathy for Israelis You've had to
Speaker 4: live under a hail of rockets since a mass took
Speaker 4: charge in two thousand and five, and living in daily
Speaker 4: fear of that this is an awful conflict. I would
Speaker 4: simply tell people that where they think there's no hope,
Speaker 4: I remember Norman Ireland and the IRA and the Loyalists
Speaker 4: being at war, and the terrorism went on from IRA
Speaker 4: towards the British and so on, and eventually they did
Speaker 4: find peace and in fact, the people engaged in hating
Speaker 4: and fighting each other ended up working together. You can
Speaker 4: do this. I just think that a mass to me
Speaker 4: on now, behaving like isis a nihilistic terror group who
Speaker 4: don't care how many innocent people they kill, and they
Speaker 4: just want to see the eradication of Israel. You can't
Speaker 4: have that if you're Israel. But it's a horribly complicated situation,
Speaker 4: and I don't have easy answers other than out of it.
Speaker 4: You've got to try and get everybody in that region
Speaker 4: together to forge a two state solution where they can
Speaker 4: live side by side in peace. And it was achieved
Speaker 4: in Northern Ireland after many decades of war, so it
Speaker 4: can be done, but you need strong leaders. I don't
Speaker 4: think that either side has good leaders.
Speaker 5: What you gave is a very nuanced answer, and I
Speaker 5: think most of these topics and issues that we try
Speaker 5: to discuss there is nuanced, but everybody picks aside. You
Speaker 5: said some earlier about social media, which I think is true.
Speaker 5: I don't think people think for themselves more. I think
Speaker 5: people go on social media to see how they should
Speaker 5: feel the issues.
Speaker 4: And they exist in echo chambers where they only follow
Speaker 4: their own tribe, right. So they go in and they
Speaker 4: want to have a view, and they want to read
Speaker 4: their view reinforced all day long, and anyone who deviates
Speaker 4: from that view on either side any of these things,
Speaker 4: whether it's Trump, whether it's Israel, Hamas, whether it's Brexit
Speaker 4: in England, you know, whatever the issue is, whether it's
Speaker 4: COVID vaccines. This nuance is crucial, crucial, and I'm not
Speaker 4: saying I'm blameless. I remember getting very angry about people
Speaker 4: who didn't have vaccines, for example, when it was believed
Speaker 4: because the scientist told us that you couldn't transmit the
Speaker 4: virus if you had the vaccine, because then it wasn't
Speaker 4: just about you, it was about you infecting some person
Speaker 4: and killing them. But when they changed their minds and said, actually,
Speaker 4: it looks like you can transmit it even if you
Speaker 4: have the vaccine, I completely reversed my position. People went
Speaker 4: disgusting you turn, well, yeah, because is that you turned
Speaker 4: the advice?
Speaker 1: No information now?
Speaker 4: But I was two centsorious about people who hadn't had
Speaker 4: a bag. It should be personal choice. What you put
Speaker 4: in your body should be personal choice. I accept that,
Speaker 4: and I got irrationally angry about that because everyone was
Speaker 4: a bit irrational through the pandemic. But on Twitter, there's
Speaker 4: no room for nuance, and there has to be. If
Speaker 4: everyone could have conversations that we're having about all complicated issues,
Speaker 4: we get a lot further than we do having them
Speaker 4: on social media, where nobody gives an inch side.
Speaker 5: We're not trying to be right, We're just putting out
Speaker 5: there on the conversation. Yeah, you have two more questions.
Speaker 5: What were your thoughts when you got called to replace
Speaker 5: Larry King in twenty eleven and were you shocked when
Speaker 5: it didn't work?
Speaker 4: Uh? Well, I would argue about whether it worked or not.
Speaker 4: I mean I did it for nearly four years. I
Speaker 4: could have carried on working at Seeing It, and they
Speaker 4: offered me a new gig to do just big interviews
Speaker 4: in several series a year, which I ended up not accepting.
Speaker 4: So it wasn't like Seeing then fired me. They offered
Speaker 4: me a new gig, but it wouldn't be the daily thing.
Speaker 4: The problem with the daily thing for me was I
Speaker 4: wasn't American and there were so many issues, not least
Speaker 4: guns which kept coming back. Or I just had an
Speaker 4: implacable different view to what most of the viewers would
Speaker 4: be thinking. You know, even most C and M viewers
Speaker 4: probably have a pretty relaxed view about guns, whereas I
Speaker 4: looked at it as a Britain when you have more
Speaker 4: people murdered by guns a day and I think the
Speaker 4: next twenty civilized countries of the world combined. You know,
Speaker 4: we in Britain have an average of about two gun
Speaker 4: desks a year. America has eighty thousand or something a year,
Speaker 4: of which I think half a suicide. Whatever it is,
Speaker 4: these are crazy numbers. But ultimately I realized that it's
Speaker 4: a matter for Americans. It's your country, it's your culture.
Speaker 4: I understand why people believe in gun ownership here. I
Speaker 4: understand why there are four hundred million guns in circulation.
Speaker 4: Then you probably want to need to defend yourself with
Speaker 4: your own I get it. I get it, Okay, So
Speaker 4: it's not it's not my debate to have. So there
Speaker 4: was a cultural problem there that actually I went to
Speaker 4: CNN to do big interviews, and I did more big
Speaker 4: interviews in nearly four years. And I think probably anyone
Speaker 4: outside Larry has ever done for them heard about you.
Speaker 4: And the interviews were amazing. I'm an interview you know,
Speaker 4: Bill Clinton twice, President Carter three times, Oprah Winfrey, the
Speaker 4: Dalai Lama, the president of Iran, almost every celebrity you
Speaker 4: care to mention. And so when I look back at them,
Speaker 4: I had an amazing I mean, I did twelve hundred
Speaker 4: shows and I had a great time. But I felt
Speaker 4: and CNN felt, we had a long chat, we just
Speaker 4: felt a kind of I'd done my time, it was
Speaker 4: I missed home. I'm very British really. I like pubs,
Speaker 4: are kind of pubs. I like cricket, I like proper
Speaker 4: football with a round ball. I'm an Arsenal fanatic. I
Speaker 4: love going to watch that. It would be like an Arsenal.
Speaker 4: You know Arsenal.
Speaker 5: I said, I'm like, you can do that.
Speaker 4: I definitely miss you. Misheard me, Arsenal. Although we do
Speaker 4: say we're going up the arts on Saturday, which can
Speaker 4: be a bit misleading. But no, I loved all those things,
Speaker 4: and it would be a bit like I would I
Speaker 4: would acqudit to if you suddenly went to London and
Speaker 4: you did this show from London for nearly four years,
Speaker 4: and you'd already lived in America, pretty much like America's
Speaker 4: Got Talent for six years, so for ten years, I
Speaker 4: pretty much lived a lot of my time in the US,
Speaker 4: and when I was at CNN, probably for forty eight
Speaker 4: weeks of the year. If you did that, I reckon
Speaker 4: after four years, you'd be gagging to get back to
Speaker 4: New York, right, to get back to your friends, your
Speaker 4: old friends, your family, but also your culture. It's simple
Speaker 4: thing like I would going to a cafe in New
Speaker 4: York or LA and they'd all be talking about American
Speaker 4: cultural stuff politics. I loved it, but American sport not
Speaker 4: so much, right. So they'd be talking about the big
Speaker 4: football match, or the big baseball game, or the basketball.
Speaker 4: But basketball is my favorite American sports. I could have
Speaker 4: a little bit of a chat about that, but not
Speaker 4: any expert view or any history right, of any history
Speaker 4: at all. When I go to my local cafe in London,
Speaker 4: there's all the guys in there, the same people, male, female, old, young,
Speaker 4: and we're all talking about the big arsehole game of
Speaker 4: night before the big cricket match. That our sport, our culture, right,
Speaker 4: And I miss that so much and I love that
Speaker 4: so much. Now I have the best of all words
Speaker 4: where I do It show, which is filmed mainly in London,
Speaker 4: but for about three months of the year I come
Speaker 4: to America. I love that I come in and I
Speaker 4: stay each time just long enough for neither of us
Speaker 4: to get fed up with each other, and then I
Speaker 4: get on a plane and go off again. And that's fine,
Speaker 4: And I prefer.
Speaker 5: That last question, probably the biggest thing we talked about
Speaker 5: in this whole hour and a half. Is it true
Speaker 5: that you play boy the homeless bird Lady in Home
Speaker 5: Alone too.
Speaker 4: No, it is not true it You've got to prove it.
Speaker 4: Why don't you ask the actress who plays the bird
Speaker 4: lady Brenda exists. It's a woman. What's her name, Brenda Friker.
Speaker 3: You must have got that before.
Speaker 1: Sounds like you made it up before.
Speaker 4: I had to do my Christmas card based on miss
Speaker 4: two years ago because I've got so many people going
Speaker 4: on about it. It is not me, and every time
Speaker 4: that bloody movie airs, which is every Christmas, I get
Speaker 4: bombarded on Twitter with Ahamehame. It's not me. I have
Speaker 4: been in nine other movies playing myself, which have grossed
Speaker 4: over two billion dollars. So you're actually you won't realize it,
Speaker 4: but I'm one of the biggest movie stars you've ever had.
Speaker 2: Morgan, Ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate you for joining us
Speaker 2: this morning.
Speaker 1: It's to say thank you so much.
Speaker 3: And it's the Breakfast Club Good morning, wake that airs
Speaker 3: up in the morning.
Speaker 1: Breakfast Club