Speaker 1: Welcome the Guys We Find the Anti Slutshamings Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Christina Hutchings and I'm Kuran Fisher and I'm Sore boy Friends.
Speaker 2: Bring up so slubby, your horning and your shame? Hey
Speaker 2: you was what?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay talk about fucking Hey fuckers?
Speaker 1: How you doing? Happy New Year? You wear your seatbelt
Speaker 1: drinking up water. Welcome to another episode of Guys We Fuck.
Speaker 1: It's the Anti slut chain podcast. I'm Kuren Fisher, I'm
Speaker 1: Christina Hutchinson. Make sure to come to our shows.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 1: We have two big ones coming up. Guys We Fuck
Speaker 1: shows New York City, February. First, we're at the MasterCard
Speaker 1: Midnight Theater for our continued Guys We Fucked the Experience
Speaker 1: residency that has been so so so fun.
Speaker 2: So fun.
Speaker 1: And then Los Angeles, our grand return to the Comedy
Speaker 1: Store in the main Room is on February fourteenth. That's right,
Speaker 1: that is Valentine's Day. It's an eight pm show. The
Speaker 1: ticket link is officially uppa, so make sure to get those.
Speaker 2: That's what.
Speaker 1: That's one show only we haven't done that in so so,
Speaker 1: so long, so you're gonna want to get tickets to
Speaker 1: that bring a date, bring a group of friends, do
Speaker 1: whatever you want.
Speaker 2: We'll just see you at the show. Very excited for that.
Speaker 1: And if you want to send us an email, it's
Speaker 1: sorry about last night's show at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: This subject line says, how do you get past the ick?
Speaker 2: You don't?
Speaker 1: You move on?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You get another boyfriend, you get a new boyfriend?
Speaker 1: Yes, longtime luminary listener here for more advice about things
Speaker 1: I don't want to admit to my therapist yet.
Speaker 2: I'll just get right into it.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I just I'll step in though and say
Speaker 1: I wish you would though, otherwise you're wasting your money
Speaker 1: and your time. You got to say the truth to
Speaker 1: your therapist. Yeah, your therapist isn't going to judge you.
Speaker 1: I mean they are, They're not to your face.
Speaker 2: It's fine. Everybody judges. Everybody is judging. Yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 1: But like then just go and find your therapist's Instagram
Speaker 1: and be like, I can't even believe I'm taking advice
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 2: Judge. A little background.
Speaker 1: I'm twenty eight and having a twenty six year old
Speaker 1: boyfriend whom I live with. We've known each other for
Speaker 1: over eight and always had a strong connection and attraction
Speaker 1: to each other, but we finally got together about three
Speaker 1: years ago. Now that age gap has leveled out. We're
Speaker 1: both busy with work in school. I'm a graduate. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's not I wouldn't call twenty eight and twenty six
Speaker 1: an age gap, but okay for women. Many for her,
Speaker 1: I think a yeah, well, it's the same age. We're
Speaker 1: both busy with work in school. I'm a graduate student
Speaker 1: and he does them cell research, which is great for
Speaker 1: our relationship because we have lots of other things to
Speaker 1: focus on other than each other. I've always been very independent,
Speaker 1: as I was forced to take care of myself and
Speaker 1: my younger siblings from a young age due to my
Speaker 1: parents having multiple jobs, and have spent all of my
Speaker 1: early twenties single. Because of this, I can get easily smothered.
Speaker 1: My partner, on the other hand, is the baby of
Speaker 1: his family and has jumped from relationship to relationship.
Speaker 2: It's just because he's a man. It has nothing to
Speaker 2: do with this position in the family.
Speaker 1: That's true with as little as two weeks in between,
Speaker 1: which was the main reason I didn't want to date him.
Speaker 2: When we first met.
Speaker 1: He had a long term girlfriend in high school, which
Speaker 1: quickly changed to his college girlfriend, whom he dated for
Speaker 1: five years. Wow, and now he's been with me for
Speaker 1: three he really wants a cheerleader.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He originally claimed that there was about a year in
Speaker 1: between me and his college girlfriend, only for me to
Speaker 1: find out that they were still hooking up only three
Speaker 1: months before we started to rekindle things. Well, I guess
Speaker 1: he was saying like we weren't official, we were just
Speaker 1: hooking up, which.
Speaker 2: In man terms, that means they weren't dating. So technically, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: my fingers win a pussy. Sure, Yeah, but was she
Speaker 2: my girlfriend exactly?
Speaker 1: I've always been a bit suspicious of this, but I
Speaker 1: can't blame him for having a drawn out breakup since
Speaker 1: we've all been there, and I have no way of
Speaker 1: knowing if they were still hooking up to try to
Speaker 1: get back together. I don't think so, if they were
Speaker 1: just fucking because it was familiar, or some combination of both.
Speaker 1: So here's my main issue, which is that having a
Speaker 1: boyfriend can be so exhausting and it's giving me the ick.
Speaker 2: Kurt, just having a boyfriend is giving you the ick.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's not the way he ate a sandwich or
Speaker 1: how he wears his pants. I've really never related to
Speaker 1: an email more when we're not in our normal.
Speaker 2: Routine giving it. Having a boyfriend gives Mike the eck.
Speaker 5: Having a girlfriend.
Speaker 1: But yes, yeah, no, it's like you know, work, it's
Speaker 1: it is so much maintenance, and then you go, I
Speaker 1: just don't know that the payoff.
Speaker 2: Is there, you know, I just don't how Yeah, it
Speaker 2: depends on your personality.
Speaker 1: When we're not in our normal routines with school and work,
Speaker 1: he wants to spend every waking moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the problem. That's a problem.
Speaker 1: This week he decided to work from home a couple
Speaker 1: of days and take the other days off so he
Speaker 1: could spend time with me now that I'm on break
Speaker 1: from school.
Speaker 2: Tell me you don't like that.
Speaker 1: Let me be clear and say that I did not
Speaker 1: ask him to do this, nor did he ask me
Speaker 1: if I wanted this, Because it's for him, not for you.
Speaker 1: It's he's he's doing it under the guise of it
Speaker 1: being a gift to you, but it's a gift to him,
Speaker 1: which is all gifts that men have ever given.
Speaker 2: Hey, honey, I got you this lingerie? Well, yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean brry Christmas.
Speaker 1: Christine is absolutely right used to be like a running,
Speaker 1: running bit on sick but like it was actually a
Speaker 1: very high level societal commentary.
Speaker 2: But they couldn't just like be so.
Speaker 1: Forward about it, right, So they're like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: a funny joke. You know, when Tim Allen gets a
Speaker 1: jill a chainsaw, we're all for a Valentine's Day we're
Speaker 1: all laughing. But really that's not funny. It's actually really
Speaker 1: not funny. It got you all the cooking supplies you need, honey, Yeah,
Speaker 1: stay in that kitchen for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was even looking forward to having a good chunk
Speaker 1: of time per day while he was at work, to
Speaker 1: spend with myself and enjoy a quiet apartment before we
Speaker 1: go on a seven day vacation together.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, this sounds all I care for you.
Speaker 1: The week before vacation, I always try to see my
Speaker 1: boyfriend like two seconds, Yeah, two seconds totally.
Speaker 2: I text him, I say, do you have your passport ready?
Speaker 2: And that's about it.
Speaker 1: I went from busting my ass on finals to being
Speaker 1: around him twenty four to seven for the last four days.
Speaker 1: I wanted to leave, but I was sick from the
Speaker 1: COVID booster and drained from school.
Speaker 2: What your what boosters. No, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I wish I could say that he wanted the time
Speaker 1: off from work to maybe get a little r and
Speaker 1: R and.
Speaker 2: Quiet time to himself.
Speaker 1: But he's woken up every morning this week by asking me,
Speaker 1: what are your plans for the day?
Speaker 2: Oh, you have a golden retriever boyfriend?
Speaker 1: Okay, which I know is his way of trying to
Speaker 1: tailor his day to fit mine. There's just a certain
Speaker 1: way he has to hang out that makes me viscerally
Speaker 1: aware that no amount of time we spend together will
Speaker 1: ever be enough for him, because you're gut telling you
Speaker 1: what's enough for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll be sitting on the couch alone with two headphones,
Speaker 1: and when I hear want to find a show to watch, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not already doing something that explicitly doesn't involve him.
Speaker 2: You got to go in a room with a door.
Speaker 1: To be honest, I didn't even know people like him
Speaker 1: existed before we got together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a little much. He really can spend
Speaker 2: a full forty eight hours straight with me and wake
Speaker 2: up wanting more. As much as I've wished at times
Speaker 2: that I could match his energy, it's just not in
Speaker 2: the cards. For me, my three days before getting into
Speaker 2: this relationship were my time to recenter myself and decompress
Speaker 2: from the week calibrate baby.
Speaker 1: Now all of my free time has somehow become our
Speaker 1: free time, And I often wonder if my boyfriend has
Speaker 1: any idea how to be alone. No, he doesn't, and
Speaker 1: that's a real big problem. I've brought this up to
Speaker 1: him multiple times in many different ways. But have you
Speaker 1: ever brought it up to him in a clear direct way,
Speaker 1: because it seems like you've probably done it in passive ways.
Speaker 2: Direct Maybe you should go see your mom exactly. You
Speaker 2: can't do that.
Speaker 1: You have to be like I need to be alone
Speaker 1: for my own sanity and when your peace, and for
Speaker 1: that to happen, I need to be the only one
Speaker 1: in our home.
Speaker 2: So you need to figure something else out.
Speaker 1: And you can also have like a serious conversation about
Speaker 1: like be like it concerns me based on a relationship
Speaker 1: history that like, perhaps you don't need to know how
Speaker 1: to be alone, and like, you know, never mind like
Speaker 1: a breakup, like what if you fucking die or something
Speaker 1: like what are you just going to keep bouncing from
Speaker 1: partner to partner for the rest of your life and
Speaker 1: ignoring the fact that you don't know how to be
Speaker 1: with yourself, like that's no way to live, and.
Speaker 2: Say that's not a partner that I want to be
Speaker 2: with long term.
Speaker 1: Like break it down, sometimes involving sometimes involving me breaking
Speaker 1: down in tears because I get overwhelmed at how exhausted
Speaker 1: I am when I finish a long since at work
Speaker 1: or a tough exam, just to be immediately met with
Speaker 1: the question what should we do today?
Speaker 2: That sounds like hell? Girl, Yeah, that sounds like hell.
Speaker 1: The only reason I'm able to write you guys today
Speaker 1: is because I told him I wanted a me day,
Speaker 1: to which I could hear the disappointment and his response
Speaker 1: he's a brat, of course. Then the avoidant attachment in
Speaker 1: me causes me to pull away more, and the anxious
Speaker 1: attachment in him makes him clan on even harder. Now,
Speaker 1: specifically for my questions, is there anything salvageable here? Or
Speaker 1: am I killing myself trying to make this work? Should
Speaker 1: I even try bringing this up to him again? Do
Speaker 1: I only like my boyfriend when he's busy. I've got
Speaker 1: that any advice from you three would be greatly appreciated,
Speaker 1: as I'm about to spend seven days with him and
Speaker 1: his family. Oh, his family's there too, Well, maybe he'll
Speaker 1: hang out with his family and you could get away
Speaker 1: and go for a walk. If these people who go
Speaker 1: on vacation with the families, well, actually you just did
Speaker 1: it and it was great.
Speaker 2: But I alone.
Speaker 6: I went for runs and watched by myself, and they're
Speaker 6: fantastic people that are not annoying it any way, And
Speaker 6: I still had to be alone for hours at least
Speaker 6: a couple of the days I could spend time with
Speaker 6: like a boyfriend's siblings. Like it's the parents that's the
Speaker 6: pro because that you feel like you just always feel
Speaker 6: like a child around parents, whether they're yours or not,
Speaker 6: which I'm hoping doesn't create an even bigger wedge between
Speaker 6: us the vacation it will.
Speaker 2: He conveniently just.
Speaker 1: Texted me a couple photo of photos of and attach
Speaker 1: it to this email. Oh he's cute, you're both super
Speaker 1: cul I love a glasses couple.
Speaker 2: My god, you guys are adorable. I mean in the photos.
Speaker 6: But the dynamic you're describing sounds awful, and it's going
Speaker 6: to chip away your sanity and you're going to resent
Speaker 6: him you're going to absolutely resent him.
Speaker 2: She already does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean exactly what Karin said earlier of sitting
Speaker 1: down and being like, I'm concerned about your inability to
Speaker 1: spend time by yourself.
Speaker 6: What are your thoughts on that. When was the last
Speaker 6: time you spent like a whole day alone? How did
Speaker 6: it go for you? I'm the kind of person that
Speaker 6: if we don't if I don't get mold days a
Speaker 6: week where I have at least half the day to myself,
Speaker 6: I'm going the relationship is going to crumble.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not personal, it's just like it's like who
Speaker 2: you are and who he is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also, I'm actually, how how did you make it through
Speaker 1: the past three years?
Speaker 2: Is this has he gotten more clingy? Like, because I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you got it through three years.
Speaker 1: If this is if this is your the dynamic, maybe
Speaker 1: it's just been building up and you're super patient. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're talking about the age gap. This is not
Speaker 1: the age gap. This is inherently who you both are.
Speaker 1: He has nothing to do with the age. This is
Speaker 1: who he is and who you are.
Speaker 6: Even if you were like him, that's still unhealthy and
Speaker 6: you're still going to be resentful, like you just need
Speaker 6: time apart is so vital, Yeah, because it makes you
Speaker 6: miss the person you can't.
Speaker 2: You have no opportunity to miss him because he's never away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's and he's you know, uh, he's just
Speaker 1: he's so young to have been in all these consecutive
Speaker 1: long term relationships.
Speaker 2: He totally has Golden Retriever energy. He just follows you around.
Speaker 2: But even if a golden Retriever doesn't talk, so it's
Speaker 2: like not as annoying when a golden Retriever falls you around,
Speaker 2: and even when they do, like sometimes I'll go from
Speaker 2: room to room and Kevin will follow me and I'm like, dude, yeah,
Speaker 2: you got to not do that. Yeah, so you got to.
Speaker 1: You gotta knit this in the butt or right away
Speaker 1: when you get back from that vacation, which I'm assuming
Speaker 1: is now, since I'm sure that was like a Christmas
Speaker 1: related thing, right, Yeah, you have to have a serious
Speaker 1: talk about this, for sure. And I'm also curious, like,
Speaker 1: so what so he loves this, you know, commitment so much.
Speaker 1: I'm also curious, do you know the reasons why he
Speaker 1: broke up with his previous girlfriends? I think that's information
Speaker 1: that could be helpful, you know, if we're I'm sit enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm assuming they initiated it, just because of that's you know,
Speaker 1: usually it's the feminine energy who initiates it. Although you
Speaker 1: tend you have a bit of a masculine energy, so
Speaker 1: you might you it's possible that he could be the
Speaker 1: feminine energy and you're the masculine energy, in which case
Speaker 1: he would be the one in shading breakups.
Speaker 2: I can't tell.
Speaker 1: It's hard from an email, but you have an assertive energy.
Speaker 1: There's been so many times over the years where I've
Speaker 1: cried to my boyfriends. I'm like, you just need to
Speaker 1: get away from me, Yeah, for like a while, and
Speaker 1: just don't talk to me.
Speaker 6: I'm not even mad at you. I just don't want
Speaker 6: your energy in the room. And it has nothing to
Speaker 6: do with you.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And then when I'm alone, dude, being alone,
Speaker 2: being the only one in your home, it's blissful, It's heaven.
Speaker 2: It's the best gift you could ever give to yourself.
Speaker 2: It's alone time.
Speaker 1: I don't know how many people, how so many people
Speaker 1: are are sharing apartments.
Speaker 2: I don't either, And my lease is up soon, and.
Speaker 6: We were just having the conversation today and I was like,
Speaker 6: I don't want to give this up because I need
Speaker 6: my own space.
Speaker 2: And he's like, I totally get that. My apartment's small.
Speaker 6: And now I'm gonna but like we want to find
Speaker 6: a second place kind of, you know, we don't. We
Speaker 6: always want to have two places, one of the woods
Speaker 6: and one of his or both of ours, you know,
Speaker 6: apartments in the city. And the lease is coming up
Speaker 6: too soon, Like I just don't have time to get
Speaker 6: a place, but I'm extending it for a couple of
Speaker 6: months because I need I need it. Like I'm not
Speaker 6: seeing him tonight because he's working, and I'm like, I'm
Speaker 6: so excited and I love that guy, like I one
Speaker 6: of the best boy best boyfriend I ever had. But like,
Speaker 6: oh my god, my alone time, you just walk around naked,
Speaker 6: you masturbate, you play piano, you get your shit done,
Speaker 6: so much stuff.
Speaker 2: Just don't fucking hear another person breathing. That's the best
Speaker 2: part part of it.
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's the best part because even when they're in
Speaker 1: the other room, you know they're there, it's not the same. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like I mean, like I've had boyfriends who can
Speaker 1: I can be with for many days and they don't
Speaker 1: bother me. But it's not common no, and even still
Speaker 1: you still you need your time to yourself.
Speaker 2: So you got to have that conversation, baby girl, and
Speaker 2: then come see us live after you've seen us in
Speaker 2: New York City on February first at the Midnight Theater
Speaker 2: and then Valentine's Day February fourteenth.
Speaker 6: Well before all these January twentieth ticket links are now up,
Speaker 6: there is a very limited amount of tickets to the
Speaker 6: very exciting premiere show of my new show.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a podcast, it's a show. It's going to
Speaker 2: live on YouTube called Wait What.
Speaker 6: It's about aliens, the afterlife, psychic phenomena, psychedelic drugs, and
Speaker 6: all the things that make you question your reality.
Speaker 2: And I'm so excited for the show January twentieth. It's
Speaker 2: a Saturday.
Speaker 6: It's going to be at MCM Production Studios in New
Speaker 6: York City, and we're going to have very special guests,
Speaker 6: John Ronson joining us to talk about psychic phenomena.
Speaker 2: He has some very cool stories that he's excited to share.
Speaker 6: And then we're opening up the microphone at the end
Speaker 6: of the show for anybody in the audience that has
Speaker 6: experiences with the psychic phenomena, including aliens. If you're living
Speaker 6: in Florida and you were at that mall Miami on
Speaker 6: January first, holler at you, girl, because I can't figure
Speaker 6: out what the fuck is happening with that, whether it's
Speaker 6: a conspiracy or not.
Speaker 2: It's very confusing, and I know what the alien stuff.
Speaker 1: The government and the police very quickly try to make
Speaker 1: you think you're crazy or that it was somebody else's fault.
Speaker 2: So buy tickets to that show.
Speaker 6: And then also I'm headlining Banana's Comedy Club in Hasbrook Heights,
Speaker 6: New Jersey February ninth and tenth, with John Campanelli featuring.
Speaker 6: And then on March twenty second, Springfield, Missouri, I'm headlining
Speaker 6: the Blue Room. And as always, if you would like,
Speaker 6: I co hot or I host group Sheaffy over Zoom
Speaker 6: four times a month on my Patreon.
Speaker 2: It's patreon dot com slash Christina Hutchinson. All the audio
Speaker 2: is uploaded to the Patreon the next day and we
Speaker 2: have some really great conversations. There was a girl there
Speaker 2: who had a breakthrough recently, and it was really exciting
Speaker 2: because I've been following her story for about a year
Speaker 2: now and it's really it's a beautiful space and it
Speaker 2: makes me love humanity more after I end the each
Speaker 2: zoom and I gotta say, I need more of that
Speaker 2: because the world is tough. The world is tough. So
Speaker 2: I will see you there, all right.
Speaker 1: And then for me, you can see me on my
Speaker 1: podcast Without a Country every week that comes out Wednesday
Speaker 1: nights on YouTube and everywhere you listen to podcasts. We
Speaker 1: are headed right into you know, election season before you
Speaker 1: know it. So there's so much to cover on that show.
Speaker 1: We've had some great interviews in the past year. We're
Speaker 1: talking about books in prison, We're talking about human zoos.
Speaker 1: I mean there's not a to you know, no stone
Speaker 1: left unturned. That's a human zoom exactly what it sounds like. Whoa,
Speaker 1: it's not kinky or sexy. No, it's extremely renascence sexy.
Speaker 2: It's extremely racist. Oh my god. Yeah, whoa. Okay, I
Speaker 2: gotta tune it. You gotta tune it. So all those
Speaker 2: topics and more.
Speaker 1: You know, if you are interested in the news or
Speaker 1: if you just want to be more interesting at a party,
Speaker 1: which I got to be honest, a lot of you
Speaker 1: could really use just and I would love to just
Speaker 1: hear people. I know this is literally a show about relationships,
Speaker 1: but I got there has to be more to talk
Speaker 1: about than the opposite sex or the same sex, depending
Speaker 1: on who you date, and that is my goal to
Speaker 1: put you out into the world with some you know more.
Speaker 1: It's long form animal facts basically. And then Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: I am playing DC Comedy Lost February twenty nine, three March.
Speaker 2: Second. You guys have known about that one for a while.
Speaker 1: I know sometimes it's hard to buy tickets for you know,
Speaker 1: in the next year, So now I'm going to really
Speaker 1: push that it's time. Some of you already have tickets,
Speaker 1: but make sure to get that. Chloe Lea Branch will
Speaker 1: be with me and it will be a super fun time.
Speaker 1: We always have a great show together, so looking forward
Speaker 1: to that. All the links are up as a link
Speaker 1: tree link in my bio and that is that.
Speaker 2: So I had I have a couple of things I
Speaker 2: wanted to bring up.
Speaker 1: One one is the more serious one that we'll get
Speaker 1: to first, and I don't know, I don't have an answer,
Speaker 1: so I'm more asking you current or the audience, but
Speaker 1: like the just the I mean, it's it's weird to
Speaker 1: go about your day.
Speaker 6: I think that people are good at compartmentalizing. We're all
Speaker 6: good at it, and that's a good thing and a
Speaker 6: bad thing.
Speaker 1: It makes us functional, But at the same time it
Speaker 1: makes us kind of I don't know, like, does it
Speaker 1: not allow us to give enough thought and emotion and
Speaker 1: energy to these horrible things that are happening?
Speaker 2: But do that?
Speaker 1: Fucking war and Gaza getting plummeted and these win just fun.
Speaker 1: It is really tough to not think of that all
Speaker 1: the time, especially being bombarded by, you know, just all
Speaker 1: these images on social media. And I managed to keep
Speaker 1: myself off of social media except to post a lot
Speaker 1: of the time because I don't want to see these
Speaker 1: images because they make me so sad, and what can
Speaker 1: you do? Somebody had DM me.
Speaker 6: I posted something about childhood trauma, like a post of
Speaker 6: this guy Patrick that I followed that I really love.
Speaker 2: He has a lot of great things to say.
Speaker 6: And he had this post about relating to you know,
Speaker 6: going no contact from your parents because he that's what
Speaker 6: he did. It's better to be an orphan than to
Speaker 6: be held hostage. And I posted that with a with
Speaker 6: a note saying it was about you know, a dysfunctional parent.
Speaker 6: But then somebody had DM me, and I understand where
Speaker 6: they're coming from. Usually if someone dms me.
Speaker 2: Like are you fucking serious? So tone deaf, I'm like
Speaker 2: what and I'll come adam with that same energy. But
Speaker 2: I get it because everybody there's a lot.
Speaker 1: Of energy to this conflict that's happening and in Ukraine
Speaker 1: that where do we put it?
Speaker 2: But they were mentioning like, you guys haven't mentioned that
Speaker 2: on the podcast, And there's a.
Speaker 1: Lot of curiates me because on Without a Country, guys,
Speaker 1: I have to talk hours, yes, and hours and hours
Speaker 1: of research and content about it. So please do not
Speaker 1: come at me that this is this is just a
Speaker 1: different space.
Speaker 2: We actually tried this.
Speaker 1: I'm aggravated now because we tried to do news content
Speaker 1: on the show and you guys, with your feedback, basically
Speaker 1: told us very yeah exactly, you told us in no
Speaker 1: uncertain words that you didn't want news there.
Speaker 2: I fucking created a fucking space so that I could
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: And also because the way politics are, unfortunately on a
Speaker 1: show when you're co hosting, a lot of times like
Speaker 1: our thoughts will bleed it, Like you know, Christina could
Speaker 1: say something and I could be held accountable, or I
Speaker 1: could say something Christina could be held accountable, and I did.
Speaker 1: So I didn't want to get really deep on this
Speaker 1: show basically because I want to just anything I say,
Speaker 1: I want to be felt fully accountable personally for. And
Speaker 1: that's a big part of the reason that I started
Speaker 1: without a country. So I could talk freely and not
Speaker 1: worry about basically looking over Christina's career and or how
Speaker 1: she felt about any Like I just could go on
Speaker 1: my own rants and rampages and talk about stuff for
Speaker 1: hours on end that just don't have a place on
Speaker 1: this show. And like we talked about, you know, feminist
Speaker 1: issues and stuff like that will still bring here. But
Speaker 1: like this is just like a bit, you know, like
Speaker 1: a bit of this is a later show we basically do.
Speaker 1: We'll do a molestation and rape, which is certainly not right,
Speaker 1: but that's kind of what.
Speaker 2: We do the umbrella on this on this show. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 2: Sure, there's a specific theme to this show.
Speaker 1: And so that's so to say we haven't mentioned it, No,
Speaker 1: you haven't fucking looked. Yes, I and I know that
Speaker 1: it's not everyone's job to talk about everything all the time,
Speaker 1: totally and.
Speaker 2: I agree, it's so sick of that.
Speaker 6: But when this person DM me and I looked at
Speaker 6: their profile and they had like a free Palaestine thing
Speaker 6: as their logo, it was it was made very clear
Speaker 6: to me that this, this ongoing annihilation of people in
Speaker 6: Gaza is Is is affecting you in an awful way.
Speaker 6: And of course it is, because it's awful and it's
Speaker 6: traumatizing and it's terrorizing.
Speaker 2: And I feel like people need somewhere to put the anger.
Speaker 6: And then you just end up fucking yelling at somebody
Speaker 6: for not talking about it on a sex podcast. It's misplaced, yes,
Speaker 6: but I I know enough about traumatic situations to know that,
Speaker 6: like it's okay. It's like I remember Crone once when
Speaker 6: you say this is unrelated. But when you're like, like
Speaker 6: a guy like touched your ass and like when you
Speaker 6: were walking down the street and I got I'm like,
Speaker 6: what the fuck, and you're like, I'm glad he did
Speaker 6: it to me because I know that this guy's fucked
Speaker 6: up and I'm not going to be like upset, But
Speaker 6: if he did that to somebody who was assaulted, that
Speaker 6: could like ruin their fucking week or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, Apparently I since that energy into the world
Speaker 1: because I got sexually assaulted again this weekend, the same
Speaker 1: shit that happened to you. Someone taking a picture with me,
Speaker 1: Fucking I don't want to do it to you, but
Speaker 1: like grab my you know. It was like it was
Speaker 1: from the side and like I don't wear bra I
Speaker 1: don't wear bras, and my it's hard to find where
Speaker 1: my tits are sometimes, so so I was just like
Speaker 1: giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 2: And then I never give a man the benefit of
Speaker 2: the well.
Speaker 1: I learned that I was I'm just I was just
Speaker 1: I'm so at peace and at zen that I was
Speaker 1: like that, uh, it's I've been people have been like
Speaker 1: so forward with me lately, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: they sense my higher vibration and they want to get
Speaker 1: a piece of it.
Speaker 2: You're right, and it's it's no, you're not.
Speaker 1: I mean I there was in this weekend alone, there
Speaker 1: was like four really crazy interactions. I mean I was
Speaker 1: out at the comedy club and the security had a
Speaker 1: literally leap on this guy. It was a fairy shit.
Speaker 1: Staff's writing the apology letters. I go, it's not your fault.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh fuck that. Yeah, I mean the.
Speaker 1: Most offensive part about it was how unattractive this man was.
Speaker 1: But it's always that guy that you funny. I got
Speaker 1: control ish, I got groped. Later that night at New
Speaker 1: Year's at the tree Bike, I.
Speaker 2: Got kicked out. No, I know matter and told me, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: He fucking and I knew I didn't freeze up, and
Speaker 1: wonder was that fucked up?
Speaker 2: Hours later, I actually that was a comic who did that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And it was in the moment and he
Speaker 6: was drunk and he did it twice. And then this
Speaker 6: other comic saw him do it to me, yeah, and
Speaker 6: she saw me go.
Speaker 2: He was like, he just fucking did that to me too.
Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, this guy needs to leave.
Speaker 6: You need to be kicked out. You just got past here.
Speaker 6: Are you fucking serious? What the fuck is your problem anyway? Sorry,
Speaker 6: that's happening. That's fucked up and led on energy.
Speaker 1: You're you are, there is wild energy and when your
Speaker 1: vibration goes higher, puranhas come in and it's weird. I go, oh,
Speaker 1: you would think raising your vibration wouldn't make uh decisive?
Speaker 2: These people go away? Yeah, no, they just want to
Speaker 2: suck it out of you. It's awful.
Speaker 1: But but that is all to say that this person
Speaker 1: that DM ME was and it was upset.
Speaker 2: I got like I got it. I wasn't my normal
Speaker 2: like folks, you're probable when I got like defensive.
Speaker 6: So so I did want to bring it up and
Speaker 6: just ask the listeners, like, is there's a reputable charity.
Speaker 6: I was doing some research. It seems like UNICEF donates
Speaker 6: sanitary products to Gaza. But I'm like, how the fuck
Speaker 6: are we getting these things to them? If people in
Speaker 6: Gaza can't get out, how do we get them tampons? Like,
Speaker 6: but what's happening is so it's so awful and inhumane
Speaker 6: and it's hard to think about. But I just wanted
Speaker 6: to throw it out there of people that like run
Speaker 6: or work for reputable ways to donate funds, to donate products,
Speaker 6: whatever the fuck we can do to help, because it
Speaker 6: feels like, you know, you want to be able to
Speaker 6: do something so that yes, they.
Speaker 2: Can move on with your day with a little bit
Speaker 2: of peace of mind. I don't know, I don't even know.
Speaker 1: Well. Thing it's like a it's like a it's just
Speaker 1: I mean, this has been going on since for years
Speaker 1: and five years, and it's just but it's just both
Speaker 1: sides got to stop and just stop killing.
Speaker 2: Just stop. It's just it's not gonna happen. It's not
Speaker 2: I know, I know.
Speaker 6: That's why I'm like, I wish we could just drop
Speaker 6: ecstasy over everybody and just put it in the air,
Speaker 6: and then all the people that are fighting, that are
Speaker 6: killing people that are firing missiles and firing guns, maybe
Speaker 6: those fucking mellow out and realize that that's not the
Speaker 6: way killing people killing anybody.
Speaker 2: It's not the way. I love that.
Speaker 1: Obviously, you've never met anyone from the age, well you
Speaker 1: have met someone from me there is really army, but
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 6: But that's why I'm saying, nothing is going to work
Speaker 6: unless you give them ecstasy involuntarily without them knowing, and
Speaker 6: then they chill the fuck out truly, or aliens come
Speaker 6: down right before the battlefield the way, you know, and
Speaker 6: then everyone drops their weapon and they go, what.
Speaker 2: The fuck is that? I've been thinking about this. This is
Speaker 2: the only two things I could think of that would
Speaker 2: do an immediacyas fire.
Speaker 1: That's it's a lot of it is like it's religion,
Speaker 1: you know, based obviously, and it's just two groups of
Speaker 1: people that just don't feel the same way about the
Speaker 1: world or religion is supposed to, you know, bring you
Speaker 1: closer to yourself and to God, and it really doesn't
Speaker 1: do that often.
Speaker 2: No, nope.
Speaker 1: So but if you're interested in learning more about it,
Speaker 1: as it seems so many of you are, you can
Speaker 1: tune into the show that I do hours and hours
Speaker 1: and hours of research on that. There's literally a YouTube
Speaker 1: thing that says, like Karin, I think it's called like
Speaker 1: Karen Fisher breaks down Israel versus Palestine on YouTube available.
Speaker 1: When I say hours of content, me talking about hours
Speaker 1: of content that I have researched because I do think
Speaker 1: that this is absolutely important and I did want to
Speaker 1: be more informed about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's right there for you.
Speaker 6: I don't know anybody else who is as thorough and
Speaker 6: unbiased in their research endeavors as you are, Koran. It's
Speaker 6: like a very valuable pieces of information to ingest because
Speaker 6: you're getting it from a source that is truly not
Speaker 6: biased and truly does her fucking homework.
Speaker 2: My god, thank you.
Speaker 1: But it's been so it's been so interesting because you know,
Speaker 1: without a country, extremely hard show to clip because people
Speaker 1: number one, you can tell how people people want to
Speaker 1: be angry about politics, right, yeah, And every time I
Speaker 1: clip it up, people always people always think that I'm
Speaker 1: going against them, and I'm like, oh, it's clear from
Speaker 1: your reaction to this clip that you have no idea
Speaker 1: what side I'm actually on, how I actually feel about it.
Speaker 1: You haven't consumed the full uh length content. And I
Speaker 1: listen Without a Country is basically a two hour if
Speaker 1: not more, show me monologue every week. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it happened with really serious things like Israel and Palisine,
Speaker 1: and it happened with not as serious things like the
Speaker 1: new Dave Chappelle's new special The Dreamer and I And
Speaker 1: so I like put these big notes like please before
Speaker 1: you react, like, yes, this is one piece of the
Speaker 1: conversation I have. But especially now that I'm doing the
Speaker 1: show solo, which I actually really really like, Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of almost debating myself. So I'll bring up a
Speaker 1: point and I'll bring up a counterpoint, right, which I
Speaker 1: did with everything, you know, I posted a clip, posted
Speaker 1: a lot of clips you know about and I posted
Speaker 1: one clip about the rise of anti Semitism. So everyone assumes,
Speaker 1: especially because being Jewish, that I am pro Israel, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's not the case. That's not that's not the case.
Speaker 1: But I but what I do think is I did
Speaker 1: see a very I saw a wild uptick in anti Semitism,
Speaker 1: like violent anti semitism in New York City.
Speaker 2: And that can't be. Yeah, that's that can't be.
Speaker 6: It's so soaked and the history of Jewish people being
Speaker 6: murdered and annihilated throughout time is just disgusting.
Speaker 2: I've tried to learn about it as much as I can,
Speaker 2: and it's awful. But it's a yeah, it's awful.
Speaker 1: And if you look at a situation, yeah, you kill
Speaker 1: a small number of people and then you basically, you know,
Speaker 1: just do away with, you know, an entire section of people,
Speaker 1: which is what happened. It's like, you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of you know conspiracy too that you know ut
Speaker 1: and Yahoo was you know, in cahoots with Hamas you know,
Speaker 1: that's the least sat on the y basically like basically
Speaker 1: like a wild you know, because it's the fact that
Speaker 1: somehow the IDEF didn't know that they were planning this,
Speaker 1: like they're on top of everything. Yeah, so it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: they allow everywhere a small amount of casualties and of
Speaker 1: course it's not small if you were one of those
Speaker 1: people or those are one of your family members, but
Speaker 1: like a tail amount of casualties in order to actually,
Speaker 1: you know, go absolutely ape shit on Gaza.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and the terror in which they killed women and
Speaker 6: children and men like everybody, and the tactics they use
Speaker 6: are so awful.
Speaker 2: Like the New York Times article about like the rapes.
Speaker 1: And stuff is just but there's also it's it's it's
Speaker 1: there's also been so much misinformation, so it's very hard,
Speaker 1: especially if your main new news source is Instagram fake pictures,
Speaker 1: which is a big problem that we were also discussing.
Speaker 1: You know, this is the first kind of time period
Speaker 1: that we're living in, uh where a picture or a
Speaker 1: video does doesn't make something so and you should you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're really familiar with that from Alien.
Speaker 6: They oh my god, there's so much fake shit out there,
Speaker 6: and then AI you're like Jesus Christ, Okay, I'm not
Speaker 6: gonna believe it until I have multiple videos of the
Speaker 6: same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it, of different angles from different people's cell phones.
Speaker 2: That's clear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did like an interview cut it. It was like
Speaker 1: with some media big media head and they asked him,
Speaker 1: what do you think is the most pressing issue for
Speaker 1: journalists and media outlets today, and he was like, it's
Speaker 1: one hundred percent the sharing of misinformation. But he's not talking,
Speaker 1: but he's like, I'm not talking about like Donald Trump
Speaker 1: level in quotes fake news. He's like, I'm talking about
Speaker 1: high level AI created fake videos and photos. And again,
Speaker 1: going into the presidential election, you really need to check
Speaker 1: your sources. See, you know, remember when there was for
Speaker 1: Israel and Palestine, there was like God, there was something
Speaker 1: going around that they were like putting babies in ovens,
Speaker 1: like the Palestinis or putting babies and ovens or something.
Speaker 2: And I saw a.
Speaker 1: Lot babies heads off the pro Israel people, and I go,
Speaker 1: I just don't know that this is happening.
Speaker 2: But there as photos and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: So and I just did extensive research and I was like,
Speaker 1: there's not really any that's.
Speaker 2: True because they're fake.
Speaker 1: There's right, you know, and it's so important, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it does take a lot of time. It takes a
Speaker 1: ton of time to look into this. And then also
Speaker 1: most people don't do it. But and it's also like,
Speaker 1: I mean I want everyone to know about it, but like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear every like dipshit idiot podcast
Speaker 1: host talk about something that they neither learned about that month. Yes,
Speaker 1: I agree, if that's not hepfulation spreads.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to hear about people's personal experiences. If
Speaker 2: you have people that you know, families in the area,
Speaker 2: what are you hearing from them? Those are the pieces
Speaker 2: of information that are valuable to understand what's actually happening.
Speaker 5: But there's also the one thing that I think has
Speaker 5: gotten kind of gone away as a as a uh
Speaker 5: uh a thing that people think about when they look
Speaker 5: for news is like the places that are can considered credible,
Speaker 5: like the New York Times and the Washington Posts and
Speaker 5: places like that, when they get something wrong, they have
Speaker 5: to go back and say, we.
Speaker 2: Got this right. The transparency in that so even there
Speaker 2: is ethics to journalists. There's ethical standards that you know.
Speaker 1: And and so that's why when people I go, you
Speaker 1: can shit on Fox News all you want, but they
Speaker 1: actually are still abiding by these ethical standards because legally
Speaker 1: they have to. Right and again, the thing I point
Speaker 1: out again and again is what you don't what you
Speaker 1: don't have to do is you can you can kind
Speaker 1: of like blow a small true point out of proportion,
Speaker 1: and that is the tactic that Fox Us uses a lot,
Speaker 1: so they'll keep there.
Speaker 2: You know, it's something they're obsessed with. For instance, is
Speaker 2: trans trans people.
Speaker 1: Right, So the stories that they report on, like a
Speaker 1: trans woman winning a woman's sports thing, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just still to piss everybody.
Speaker 1: Will be true and accurate, but they're not telling you
Speaker 1: the statistics of like this is like a one in
Speaker 1: a million thing, you know, like they're not presenting all
Speaker 1: of that. So like the the information is not untrue,
Speaker 1: it is just wildly proportionally skewed.
Speaker 5: And the difference is also Fox and News's role is
Speaker 5: to basically take that headline and then turn it into
Speaker 5: a conversational talking point. That's what their shows become, like.
Speaker 2: They create content. They regularly have me.
Speaker 1: On, right.
Speaker 5: But the New York Times there is there is a
Speaker 5: report where they they had gotten it wrong. They they
Speaker 5: called it too early and they said at the very
Speaker 5: beginning of the conflict uh in Gaza where they said
Speaker 5: that Israel had blown up a hospital in the Gaza
Speaker 5: strip and they went wrong. They kind of called they
Speaker 5: their sources were they just did it before they had
Speaker 5: fully checked. They put it out there and it was wrong,
Speaker 5: but they retracted that. So when you're going through a credit,
Speaker 5: going through a credible news source, they have to print
Speaker 5: a retraction if they get that ship wrong, and they
Speaker 5: have to make that clear. Whereas if you're just getting
Speaker 5: information off of uh, you know, account, it's just like
Speaker 5: it's information that's probably unchecked and if it's wrong, you'll
Speaker 5: probably not hear about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then yeah, and I think that everybody should
Speaker 1: just take take notice of your own reactivity and just
Speaker 1: be aware of your own desire to want to react
Speaker 1: to something or to want to get angry, because I
Speaker 1: think most of us have that. I think social media
Speaker 1: feeds into it. They pay people millions of dollars to
Speaker 1: figure out how to feed into that. But if you're
Speaker 1: more mindful of that, we can stop jumping the gun
Speaker 1: so fast and go, oh okay, maybe this isn't a
Speaker 1: piece of information that is accurate that I'm taking in. Well,
Speaker 1: it's just like, I mean, no offense. But like your
Speaker 1: view on Israel and Palestine like that, persons giving you
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, Christina Hutchinson is gonna change mine either, know,
Speaker 1: Like it's just I know that.
Speaker 2: But the only thing I can think, like, it's because
Speaker 2: you have a loss.
Speaker 1: Of people have people feel a loss of control when
Speaker 1: something horrific is happening and they don't know what to
Speaker 1: do about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I understand that on Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 1: I understand people's people's anger, and uh, yeah, it's fucked,
Speaker 1: it's fucked. But I wanted to bring that up, and
Speaker 1: then I know we have to get to our guests.
Speaker 1: But real quick, just real quick, on the throat out there.
Speaker 1: This is a total, total turn, total right turn from
Speaker 1: what we were just talking about, like we were the
Speaker 1: topic of the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, like what we do here for ten years.
Speaker 6: So we've talked with uh, the urologists that we had
Speaker 6: out about a lot of sexual function is based on
Speaker 6: blood flow, right, yeah, doctor Reich. So I watched this
Speaker 6: documentary I think it was on Hulu or Netflix.
Speaker 2: It's called what the fuck is it called? Was it
Speaker 2: called You Are What You Eat? I think? Yeah? It
Speaker 2: was a twins study. Oh I started watching that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was awesome. And at the end of each
Speaker 1: twin went on a separate diet. One was vegan, one
Speaker 1: was omnivore, but they were both healthy.
Speaker 6: Right, and there was a couple differences in stacks over
Speaker 6: a period of eight weeks. But one of the differences
Speaker 6: that I found interesting that relates to the show is
Speaker 6: they measured the temperature of the twins genitals looking at
Speaker 6: porn before they embarked on these diets, and after they
Speaker 6: embarked on these diets. Oh interesting, And the people the
Speaker 6: twins that got the vegan diet were so much more aroused.
Speaker 6: There was so much more blood flow to their genital
Speaker 6: area when they were looking at worn than before they
Speaker 6: did the vegan diet.
Speaker 2: So all I'm saying is, really.
Speaker 1: I was so constipated when I was vegan. I've been
Speaker 1: I've been slowly doing it. There's no way I'm going
Speaker 1: to be going one hundred percent vegan because when I
Speaker 1: go out to eat or at somebody's house, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna be I'm not gonna be that much of a
Speaker 1: pain in the ass.
Speaker 2: But vegan food is delicious, It's really good.
Speaker 1: And then the thing I didn't know about this dock
Speaker 1: dude eating beef is so bad for the environment.
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
Speaker 6: The amount of I haven't either, but like the amount
Speaker 6: of methane that gets that gets put into the atmosphere
Speaker 6: from cows burps and shit. Is so like if we
Speaker 6: got if we made it illegal to touch a cow,
Speaker 6: the ozone would like begin to actually repair itself.
Speaker 2: It's crazy. I mean that will never happen, but just
Speaker 2: wanted to throw it out there.
Speaker 1: I mean also just like how the cows are treated,
Speaker 1: like a lot of these animals never see a drop
Speaker 1: of sunlight for their whole lives to be slaughtered.
Speaker 2: I mean, if we want to talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: being humane. Oh, and fish farms are disgusting, and the
Speaker 2: way chickens are kept is it's all it's all gross,
Speaker 2: and I think American love to be ignorant to it
Speaker 2: so we can just keep eating our hot dog.
Speaker 1: But it's like, eh, well I pass sausage, you know,
Speaker 1: a sausage factory on the way here, and I was
Speaker 1: just like thinking in my head, I was like, I
Speaker 1: can't believe it's twenty twenty four and we're still like
Speaker 1: doing sausage.
Speaker 2: I really, it just feels like we are so behind
Speaker 2: and we don't need protein in every one of our
Speaker 2: meals and also kind of like a sausage here and there.
Speaker 1: Well, I disagree with that. I think you do need
Speaker 1: protein in all your meals. But we don't need animal
Speaker 1: prote No, no, no, I never Yeah, it could be one
Speaker 1: hundred percent plant protein.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we need a lot of protein though, especially women.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, guys. Let's let's get to it, you know,
Speaker 2: let's Oh did you want to pro the TC show?
Speaker 2: I already did. Oh you did?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Cool our guest today. I'm very excited to talk to her.
Speaker 6: She is uh, very well versed in a topic that
Speaker 6: I have unfortunate experience with and I don't really get
Speaker 6: to talk to people about it much because I don't
Speaker 6: know what the fuck to say and I don't have
Speaker 6: as much knowledge as this woman. She is a New
Speaker 6: York City based actor, comedian, and contact creator doing deep
Speaker 6: Dogs lives into the issue of sperm Downership.
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the show. Laura, Hi, you.
Speaker 4: Blay zombie, big Masa Fusco sexy? Which dogs? Don't you sure?
Speaker 1: Black?
Speaker 4: NSA dude, Gemma? Can you up? Because I feel that you.
Speaker 1: I can't hear my GOLs and.
Speaker 2: My field was black. There's a party at.
Speaker 5: I'd be late to the party.
Speaker 4: I think I'm really do good? Can so nice hearty,
Speaker 4: nice sexy, which is everywhere ahead again.
Speaker 6: Check yes, yes, okay, we are here with comedian and
Speaker 6: you say activists.
Speaker 2: Was that a fair term?
Speaker 6: Sure, or at least advocate advocate yea all things sperm
Speaker 6: donor related.
Speaker 3: Laura, Hi, Hello, thank you all for having me, Thank
Speaker 3: you being here. Not just sperm donor, I would say
Speaker 3: all donor conceived donor conceived people. Yeah, well we'll do
Speaker 3: the full rounding for the whole community. Yeah.
Speaker 6: You really dedicated a lot of your energy to this topic,
Speaker 6: and I'm very thankful because, as I said to you earlier,
Speaker 6: I don't have anybody to talk to about it because
Speaker 6: I don't know anybody. Can you go over quickly for
Speaker 6: our audience your story with being donor conceived? How'd you
Speaker 6: find out and how that was at the beginning?
Speaker 3: Oh, happily. So I am actually like, I'm one of
Speaker 3: the lucky ones. So I'm thirty five, I'm born in
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty eight, and I was told actively by my
Speaker 3: parents when I was fourteen.
Speaker 2: Imagine that parents who told told the kid that's weird.
Speaker 2: I know, fourteen fourteen.
Speaker 1: I was like, did you ask your parents, like how
Speaker 1: did they decide on what age? Was appropriate to tell
Speaker 1: they were.
Speaker 3: I mean, so let me put it a little things.
Speaker 3: So fourteen nowadays would be considered a late discovery. Anything
Speaker 3: past the age of three is considered late discovery, right, wow,
Speaker 3: three year old And though Spermas though it isn't. But
Speaker 3: but it's like referring to like yes, like you're like
Speaker 3: you know the donor biological like it should be part
Speaker 3: of the conversation always. It should never be something that
Speaker 3: they find out. And there's lots of children's books to
Speaker 3: explain the process. Oh really, yes, they're coming out like
Speaker 3: they're they're coming out a lot right now, which is
Speaker 3: really really great. That's available a great place for any
Speaker 3: if we have any intended recipient parents or recipient parents
Speaker 3: listening to go follow at Jana rupnow r up n ow.
Speaker 3: She's like the leading therapist when it comes to a
Speaker 3: donor conception. Great great resource for recipient parents. She always
Speaker 3: has like a massive list of like of children's books,
Speaker 3: so if you need it, the right children books are great.
Speaker 3: It's a great way to deliver a hard message. Absolutely,
Speaker 3: and I think it gives parents language because for me
Speaker 3: and I think for a lot of parents who were
Speaker 3: like more in our age group, A lot of the
Speaker 3: doctors were telling parents like, you never need to tell
Speaker 3: your child that their donor can see actively.
Speaker 2: Did your parents tell.
Speaker 1: I don't know if the doctor told them, but I
Speaker 1: do know when I asked my mom if my dad
Speaker 1: was my biological father after getting all these messages on
Speaker 1: twenty three and me, she was like, oh, I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: And she had wanted to tell me to give her credit.
Speaker 6: She wanted to tell me my whole life. She wanted
Speaker 6: my My mom wanted a second child very badly. I
Speaker 6: have a brother who's eight years older than me, who's
Speaker 6: biologically both my parents' child, and my dad had testicular cancer,
Speaker 6: so there was something with the sperm there, I'm sure.
Speaker 6: And so he agreed to do a donor only if
Speaker 6: I never found out, because he didn't want me to
Speaker 6: think of him different. So their reason, his reasoning. It's
Speaker 6: fucked up that they didn't tell me, But I do understand.
Speaker 6: And there was no language in that time. There was
Speaker 6: no therapeutic language barely.
Speaker 3: It's one of those things where you had the right
Speaker 3: to know. Anyone in your position has the right to know.
Speaker 3: I understand. Given like our our age group where there's
Speaker 3: zero resources, there's zero help, and the industry is literally
Speaker 3: at that point in time telling the parents. Don't tell
Speaker 3: your fucking kids. I get it, it's still not right.
Speaker 3: It was still wrong. Yeah, have they if you don't
Speaker 3: mind me asking, like, have they like come around?
Speaker 2: Have they like apologized? Nope?
Speaker 3: Okay, so we have for growth.
Speaker 6: Well, I also don't talk to my parents either, either
Speaker 6: of them. Fuddily enough has nothing to do with that,
Speaker 6: but it has to do with a lot of other things.
Speaker 6: But I had the conversation I have with my dad.
Speaker 6: When my mom found out that I knew, she was like,
Speaker 6: can you just give me time to tell She was
Speaker 6: nervous to tell my dad because they she tried to
Speaker 6: bring it up and like, we need to tell her.
Speaker 6: So I appreciate her advocating for me and in that respect,
Speaker 6: But the conversation was just like, hey, yeah, you're not.
Speaker 2: I mean I thought you were because my hand's peel
Speaker 2: and your.
Speaker 1: Hands peel and he was like, hah yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: this weird like allergy we get And then it was
Speaker 1: just so laughing and then we moved on like there
Speaker 1: was just no conversation about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's and and that's and and that's really unfortunate.
Speaker 3: And I was very, very lucky. My parents were always like,
Speaker 3: we're always gonna tell her, but when to tell me
Speaker 3: was always like, well, when's the best time to do it? Yeah,
Speaker 3: And they brought it up and I will always love
Speaker 3: my parents for this. They brought it up to my
Speaker 3: pediatrician and they were like, this is Laura. We obviously
Speaker 3: you know sperm donor baby, so letting medically you know that,
Speaker 3: and wow, and which is a phenomenal because most parents
Speaker 3: don't even tell the kids pediatrician. So my pediatrician and
Speaker 3: I love her. Shout out to doctor Mary if she's listening.
Speaker 3: Told my parents saying, okay, so you're gonna tell her,
Speaker 3: and my dad is going to be the one to
Speaker 3: do it because she's going to be insecure that you
Speaker 3: don't love her as much. So if you're the one
Speaker 3: to tell her and you tell you know, that's going
Speaker 3: to completely override it.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good tactic. I like that.
Speaker 3: And I was like, and there was no research. This
Speaker 3: was like doctor Mary pulling this out of nowhere. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, she was pulling it from her heart.
Speaker 6: And your parents also seemed to have like an open,
Speaker 6: more open heart than others.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh yeah, and so my parents
Speaker 3: were just like, let's tell her when she's gonna understand
Speaker 3: medically what it is. So fourteen ended up being the
Speaker 3: age my dad told me in the car, because that's
Speaker 3: where all dads do that conversation. My dad was full
Speaker 3: on boom er dadding, and he asked it I was fourteen,
Speaker 3: and he was like, Laura, do you know how babies
Speaker 3: are made? I'm like, yeah, Dad, I've seen skinemax and
Speaker 3: he was like, for you and then told me, And
Speaker 3: for me, I feel it was this massive validation because
Speaker 3: I always.
Speaker 2: Fucking knew something was up.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, okay, that just didn't feel like you were
Speaker 1: in the family I did.
Speaker 2: I was like, am I switched at birth? And I'm
Speaker 2: so interesting that you have that intuition.
Speaker 3: I most donor can I shouldn't say a lot of
Speaker 3: donor can see people do as well.
Speaker 6: I felt like something was wrong, but my mom had
Speaker 6: so much mental illness that I was like, I guess
Speaker 6: it's that you know.
Speaker 2: So that took the enter stage. But my brother always
Speaker 2: told me jokingly that I was the mailman's baby because
Speaker 2: I don't look like the people in my family.
Speaker 1: I don't look like my dad. He know, no, she
Speaker 1: had no idea. I was so rewarding telling him, but uh.
Speaker 2: I always felt like, not, well, I thaw out a place,
Speaker 2: but I think that was a mental homeless thing.
Speaker 6: But I always felt like, you guys know something that
Speaker 6: I don't, and it's beyond adult child thing and it's
Speaker 6: fucking making me nuts like it. And I didn't make
Speaker 6: that connection until I was in shock for the first
Speaker 6: year that I found out, so I didn't have.
Speaker 2: An opinion on it. I was just like, uh uh uh.
Speaker 6: And then after a year in the dust settled a
Speaker 6: little bit, I was like, I always felt like something like,
Speaker 6: you weren't telling me something.
Speaker 1: Well, kids always know. My my ex boyfriend, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I have not gone through this process personally. But while
Speaker 1: I was dating him, he he found out in his
Speaker 1: thirties that he was adopted.
Speaker 2: Yes, and because the same thing.
Speaker 1: He would look at pictures and be like, you know,
Speaker 1: not to be rude, but why am I hotter than everyone?
Speaker 2: Like a lot? I'm like, why is my skin darker?
Speaker 2: Hy a my taller like? And and he was just
Speaker 2: like he just like it's something's you know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, then he finally and then like he found
Speaker 1: like newspaper articles and like then his you know, in his.
Speaker 2: Oh, he just found out before they told him.
Speaker 1: We started piecing together together, I mean me and him
Speaker 1: together started piecing things together. I remember being like in
Speaker 1: a car and a dunkin Donuts parking lot with him,
Speaker 1: like and he had like paperwork and then we're just
Speaker 1: like kind of figuring it out where we were like
Speaker 1: figuring out together, like we were on you know.
Speaker 2: Special Victims. You d it was nice.
Speaker 1: Was so crazy and then yeah, and then he did
Speaker 1: the same thing, like went to his parents and were
Speaker 1: like what And then also his you know, biological mom
Speaker 1: had passed away the same Yeah, it's just like it's
Speaker 1: a bummer it's up here that you don't like my
Speaker 1: donor had passed away, so he's no longer live. But
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I wish my mom was adopted. That's
Speaker 1: why I got her the twenty three of me kit
Speaker 1: for Christmas.
Speaker 6: She didn't want to do it, and I was like, well,
Speaker 6: I want to do it because we don't know about
Speaker 6: your biological family.
Speaker 2: This could be so interesting. Yeah, and then helpful medically yea.
Speaker 3: Insane, Like people don't understand getting a medical history from
Speaker 3: your biological family literally can save your life.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And with your mom with all her medical ailments, like
Speaker 1: she has so many like things that she never knew about.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, that would be so helpful exactly.
Speaker 6: And I'm I was also I'm bummed I didn't get
Speaker 6: to meet the sperm donor because my mother has a
Speaker 6: sister who I am in contact with, that she was
Speaker 6: in contact with later on in her life.
Speaker 1: They look exactly alike. They're like a couple years apart.
Speaker 1: They were adopted into different families. They look exactly alike.
Speaker 1: They have the same laugh. It's so cute. They both,
Speaker 1: separately when they were children got into horses. My mom
Speaker 1: had a horse when she was ten that my aunt
Speaker 1: raises horses for a living.
Speaker 2: So like there's all these.
Speaker 6: Cool things that I'm like, that's nature, not nurture, and
Speaker 6: that's so cool. Yeah, And I would love to have
Speaker 6: found out like does he is he funny?
Speaker 2: Is he? You know? Like that kind of stuff is cool?
Speaker 3: No. Absolutely, And that's a big thing that actually really
Speaker 3: a lot of donor canceive people go through as well,
Speaker 3: is because for some people think that, like the donor
Speaker 3: is just going to provide I would say, as sterilized
Speaker 3: DNA as possible, just to basically fill.
Speaker 2: In a gap.
Speaker 3: But a lot of times the child looks and has
Speaker 3: the personality of the donor and it throws everyone off,
Speaker 3: and the recipient parents are like, well, shit, this isn't
Speaker 3: this is a little different.
Speaker 2: Oops.
Speaker 3: And then the kid feels out of place and there's
Speaker 3: no genetic mirroring for them, and they're like, why do
Speaker 3: I look different from the rest of the family. Why
Speaker 3: am I interested in very different things? Why is my
Speaker 3: demeanor very different? And then on top of which it
Speaker 3: really it really sucks, is a lot of recipient parents,
Speaker 3: even when they do tell their child that their donor conceived,
Speaker 3: they're like, yeah, but the donor conception doesn't matter. You're
Speaker 3: our kid. You're our kid. And it's like or like,
Speaker 3: don't tell anybody.
Speaker 1: Oh that's thing my parents said, And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: jokes on you booboom, it's on the whole world, because.
Speaker 2: That's my story, it's your story.
Speaker 1: So much parenting has done like it was my shrouding
Speaker 1: your kids with shame. It's but that's it wild you're
Speaker 1: parenting one on one apparently, But that's the problem.
Speaker 3: You're literally telling your child to be ashamed of half
Speaker 3: of who they are. I'm ashamed, and it's I think
Speaker 3: it's cool you wanted me here. Honestly, I feel more.
Speaker 6: I felt more wanted, even though it was so fucked
Speaker 6: up that they didn't tell me. But at the same time,
Speaker 6: right next to that was you went through great lengths
Speaker 6: to make me be a person on here.
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 6: That's that's kind of an honor to know, and it
Speaker 6: makes me feel good. You're more expensive, yeah, suck it,
Speaker 6: But I think.
Speaker 3: But I think a part of it is like it
Speaker 3: also is like you spent so much emotional and monetary
Speaker 3: like labor. Why are you casting shame on how you
Speaker 3: became a family. And it's always something I go through,
Speaker 3: like so much with the fucking recipient parents, And I'm like,
Speaker 3: you spent literally like years, you put a second mortgage
Speaker 3: on your fucking home.
Speaker 2: Why are you shaming the child for something you chose
Speaker 2: for them?
Speaker 3: That's really fucked up. And it's like, this is your child,
Speaker 3: is you know, your amazing, wonderful child, and yes the
Speaker 3: donor is there as well. You can't just shadow them.
Speaker 3: You have to let the child decide how important the donor,
Speaker 3: conception and the donor is within their life. It is
Speaker 3: not for you to decide it is for your kid
Speaker 3: if you as a parent, Like, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sorry, true, right, but how important was it for you?
Speaker 3: It didn't become I didn't realize how important was until
Speaker 3: later in life.
Speaker 2: It was so for me. We were told I was made.
Speaker 3: And I don't know about you, but like I, my
Speaker 3: parents weren't allowed to pick the donor. I was like
Speaker 3: before donor catalogs were a thing, and like I didn't
Speaker 3: have a donor number, donor profile or anything like that,
Speaker 3: and like nothing, and I was I was made in
Speaker 3: New York City, so yeah, and my parents were told,
Speaker 3: so we match the donors to the dad's as best
Speaker 3: we could hair color, eye color, ethnicity.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, But they were told that.
Speaker 3: They were told that, and what they said it was
Speaker 3: the weirdest thing. And my parents didn't choose this clinic.
Speaker 3: They just were assigned this clinic. They said, like we
Speaker 3: the number one thing we match before anything else is religion.
Speaker 2: Ew I'm like, what the fuck now? Our religion is
Speaker 2: not in your DNA. I mean, you know, I was
Speaker 2: raised Catholic.
Speaker 3: So I mean, like obviously we needed sperm that was
Speaker 3: like good on its fucking knees, because God forbid me
Speaker 3: get that Protestant sperm.
Speaker 2: That's so dumb, it's so fucking's so dumb about religion,
Speaker 2: and it's such a religion, such a beautiful thing, and
Speaker 2: people ruined. I mean, it's it's the eighties. People were
Speaker 2: a little fucked up at that point. There was a
Speaker 2: lot of cocaine and hairspray.
Speaker 3: But so, but what ended up happening was so my
Speaker 3: dad Irish, Scottish Catholic, I grow up looking the way
Speaker 3: I do. I mean, if anyone's yeah, if anyone's watching this,
Speaker 3: like you're looking at me going like are you you sure?
Speaker 3: And so I thought I was Irish, Scottish and Polish
Speaker 3: from my mom's my entire life. But feature but I
Speaker 3: would say I but I came into my features. I
Speaker 3: came into how I look my hair. I had a
Speaker 3: different hair texture than everybody in my family. My hair,
Speaker 3: my family's hair is like pin straight, and I had
Speaker 3: like a fucking fro, like got a princess diaries, like pre.
Speaker 1: Makeover, and that's where I look like it's a jew fro.
Speaker 1: I had the jewjraw same and that's the only brother possibility.
Speaker 1: As Italian, it was like yeause, I'm both Jewish and Italians,
Speaker 1: so it's like interchangeable.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, yeah, no, I did.
Speaker 3: I mean I when I was I worked at the
Speaker 3: Times Square Toys Arrests. Yeah, and I had people coming
Speaker 3: up to you Jewish. Well literally, I had members of
Speaker 3: the Hasidic Jewish community come up and talk Yiddish to
Speaker 3: me and I'd be like, I'm so sorry, I don't
Speaker 3: speak Yiddish and they're like, okay, but you're Jewish.
Speaker 2: I'm like no, and they're like ok dude.
Speaker 6: All the little kids, the little the little Hasidic kids
Speaker 6: will come up to me with the with the I
Speaker 6: don't know what the divide they get grain of something
Speaker 6: they ask you and that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I had got a kid come up like hey, you're Jewish.
Speaker 2: I'm like no, I'm not, and he's like, yes you are, Like, dude, no,
Speaker 2: not bro go home. They he was right, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: that's they crazy.
Speaker 3: I know. I'm like I want to find those mamas
Speaker 3: because those are the ones coming up to me and
Speaker 3: they were just like we need to talk.
Speaker 2: What are you then I need.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I owe those ladies, I owe them a
Speaker 3: drink or food, whatever is what would be appropriate. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I know, and I've been clocked that way my whole life.
Speaker 3: Took the twenty three and meters Ancestry found out, No,
Speaker 3: I am fifty percent osh Konazi Jewish. My mom took it,
Speaker 3: not a lick of Ashkanazi in her. So it's like
Speaker 3: it's all from the donor. So we're like, okay, Lie
Speaker 3: Number one got it. Where we started getting suspicious though,
Speaker 3: was I was nineteen years old and I called the
Speaker 3: doctor who made me from the clinic and I was
Speaker 3: nineteen and I was kind of like, fuck, let's let's
Speaker 3: fucking do it.
Speaker 2: And I called them and I was like, Hi, I'm
Speaker 2: Laura High.
Speaker 3: I'm you know, Bloody Blue's daughter. Do you know who
Speaker 3: I am? And I will never forget the sound of
Speaker 3: his voice. He went, yeah, I know who you are?
Speaker 2: Whoa? And I was like whoa? And excuse me. It
Speaker 2: got really weird and I was like okay, and I
Speaker 2: will never forget it.
Speaker 3: It was like it was tension, and I was like, hey,
Speaker 3: I just want to know, like can I get my
Speaker 3: medical history?
Speaker 2: Can I know who the donor is? Can I do it?
Speaker 3: And he's like, well, it was anonymous donor, so I
Speaker 3: can't tell you who it is, even if I did know. Also,
Speaker 3: the bank that you were from, it was filled with
Speaker 3: like doctors and med students. But the bank, it's everywhere,
Speaker 3: but the bank burnt to the ground. So all the
Speaker 3: medical records. How convenient it's you. If you get ten
Speaker 3: donor conceived people in a room, five of them will
Speaker 3: tell you, Oh yeah, the bank and the clinic burntup.
Speaker 2: That's the thing we're told all the time, Burt, like,
Speaker 2: they all have the same.
Speaker 3: Exp Apparently there is an arsonist attacking fertility clinics.
Speaker 2: Beware. But that doesn't work in a digital age, I know.
Speaker 2: But the people that were internet fire digital fires are
Speaker 2: going to be the fire wall caught on fire.
Speaker 6: So you said in the clinic where you were made.
Speaker 6: When when you get a when a woman gets a
Speaker 6: sperm donor, don't they just take a turkey.
Speaker 3: Based Well, to be fair, I actually was not made
Speaker 3: in the clinic, so I was supposed to be. I
Speaker 3: was supposed to be a turkey baser in the clinic.
Speaker 3: But my mom was ovulating on a holiday weekend, so
Speaker 3: the clinic was closed, and so the doctor arranged for
Speaker 3: the donor to drop the sperm off at a hotel
Speaker 3: concierge for my mom to pick it up.
Speaker 2: That is hilarious medical.
Speaker 3: And then she went and got it like fucking you know,
Speaker 3: take out, and went to my father's office and that's
Speaker 3: where I was made.
Speaker 2: Wait, she put the turkey baster in herself with no
Speaker 2: my dad did how romantic? That's yeah, put this guy's in, honey.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, spread her out over his spreadsheets.
Speaker 2: That's kind of romantic. He was in advertising.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, okay, there was a lot of sperm everywhere,
Speaker 3: so you know, just added me to the wall.
Speaker 2: But yeah, now I have medical issues. That's why you
Speaker 2: couldn't conceive. That's why you got a donor.
Speaker 3: Yes, we were never quite sure exact actly what the
Speaker 3: medical issues are with my dad was sperm needs to
Speaker 3: go through I'm going to make this up and needs
Speaker 3: to go like thirty phases of like fertilization, or maybe
Speaker 3: it's like fifty, or it could be like two hundred.
Speaker 3: I don't remember, but it's like it has a certain
Speaker 3: amount and my dad's go through like four ICEE and
Speaker 3: it was at least an issue at the time where
Speaker 3: it could not be fixed.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it could be fixed now.
Speaker 1: This is also a good conversation because it's such a
Speaker 1: myth that we see a woman's that infertility is so
Speaker 1: often the woman's problem, when realistically the stats are almost
Speaker 1: fifty to fifty, Like it's almost equally the man's fault,
Speaker 1: especially as we age, not fault. You know. That was
Speaker 1: my own bias. But uh, I known issue. It's it
Speaker 1: is a it is a joint yeah it is.
Speaker 2: It's a problem.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's a joint problem. But yeah, so for me,
Speaker 3: I wasn't made in the clinic. I wish I did
Speaker 3: because it it I I part of me is like this,
Speaker 3: this feels a little sketchy, mom, because also for me,
Speaker 3: like this donor was dropping off fresh sperm at a
Speaker 3: hotel concierge in New York City in the fucking eighties.
Speaker 2: Dude, yo, I love this story. Yeah, this is You're
Speaker 2: a miracle, Laura. I'm a miracle.
Speaker 3: We didn't get a fucking std is what We're a
Speaker 3: god damn that. I'm like, mom, do we put that?
Speaker 3: And then like you see her like now, realize like, oh, ship,
Speaker 3: we're really lucky that Like she's like oh, and I'm
Speaker 3: like yeah, mom, like this could have been really bad guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Well, because a lot of there's a lot of stories
Speaker 6: about the sperm being switched or the doctor putting his
Speaker 6: sperm in.
Speaker 2: That's we cute.
Speaker 3: Fertility fraud. We have now caught over eighty doctors committing
Speaker 3: fertility fraud.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we can't ill what we try to do,
Speaker 1: like create an army of themselves.
Speaker 2: Yes, some of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the that's just a narcissistic dude thing. It's
Speaker 1: the weirdest. That is the weirdest thing to me. That
Speaker 1: is the weirdest thing. I just have a bunch of
Speaker 1: you and you don't even know where they are.
Speaker 2: Well we are. It gets even weirder.
Speaker 3: So we have eighty doctors so far that we found
Speaker 3: and it's like, God, I don't know what the statistics
Speaker 3: and I should say, January twenty twenty three, it was
Speaker 3: seventeen percent of the United States population had taken a
Speaker 3: commercial DNA test.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's gone up by now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we're now and we're now at eighty doctors
Speaker 3: coming fertility fraud. None of them have gone to jail
Speaker 3: how and what indicates fertility fraud. Fertility fraud is the
Speaker 3: malicious intended act of switching out the chosen donor or
Speaker 3: partner gam meets in IVF for your own or any
Speaker 3: other that you choose. So it is a malicious intended act,
Speaker 3: and that's different from fertility negligence, where it is an
Speaker 3: accidental mix up.
Speaker 2: If these doctors are male, I hope their dick falls
Speaker 2: off tomorrow morning. What the fuck? Oh these guys are
Speaker 2: fucked up?
Speaker 1: Is it very hard to like for someone to prove
Speaker 1: negligence versus fraud? Is that part of the issue, I
Speaker 1: would say it.
Speaker 3: So when it is like the doctor sperm, that is
Speaker 3: pretty easy to go like, yes, you definitely did that.
Speaker 2: If it is a different donor.
Speaker 3: That could be argued, I think you'd probably have to
Speaker 3: show more of like a pattern of behavior. And it's like,
Speaker 3: oh wow, we seem to have a lot of issues
Speaker 3: with negligence. Maybe it isn't negligence right.
Speaker 1: It almost seems like maybe doctors like like if you're working,
Speaker 1: like shouldn't be allowed to be sperm donor like some
Speaker 1: kind of like across the board ruling so that we
Speaker 1: can just like NIP doctors.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think.
Speaker 3: I mean because a lot of the people who work
Speaker 3: within your clinic or cryobank, a lot of them are
Speaker 3: donors as well.
Speaker 2: So you might be going through a donor.
Speaker 3: Catalog with a receptionist and that receptionist is one of
Speaker 3: the donors that you are looking at. Yeah, in my opinion,
Speaker 3: if you work at a clinic or cryobank, you should
Speaker 3: not be allowed to donate because I think that there's
Speaker 3: a I don't think I should.
Speaker 2: And also too, if the doctor is switching out with
Speaker 2: his sperm, you're not going to find out until later.
Speaker 2: So if that doctor's seventy five years old, he's like,
Speaker 2: by the time I got caught him, he fucking dead.
Speaker 3: Well that's the that's the problem, and that's why it's
Speaker 3: so hard to prosecute, right because fertility fraud what we
Speaker 3: need to pass regulations, because fertility fraud is different than
Speaker 3: any other kind of medical fraud. Because if you had
Speaker 3: an operation, they left a sponge in you or something,
Speaker 3: you're gonna find out fast. You might not find out
Speaker 3: that you're a proctum or a victim of fertility fraud.
Speaker 3: And for thirty forty years later. Wow, and that makes
Speaker 3: it really really hard to actually prosecute.
Speaker 2: Can we name names of any of these alleged doctors? Oh,
Speaker 2: my god, of course. So we've got.
Speaker 3: Obviously we've got you know, the famous doctor from our father,
Speaker 3: Go see that documentary on Netflix. That was doctor Klein,
Speaker 3: doctor Klinck. When the documentary came out, he was like,
Speaker 3: ninety one kids, they're now over one hundred.
Speaker 1: Dude, how does that make hel financially responsible for these kids?
Speaker 2: No, because because it was a donor.
Speaker 3: It was I think he got like a slap on
Speaker 3: the risk of risk and not for like switching sperm out.
Speaker 3: But there was like something else, like when they were
Speaker 3: doing his like examination process, there was something that happened
Speaker 3: like that made him in trouble.
Speaker 2: I can't go see the document.
Speaker 6: And he like but he felt like it was like
Speaker 6: his cake or something like he got off on the
Speaker 6: fact that he had all these kids.
Speaker 2: It was weird.
Speaker 3: He was what a big supporter of the quiver Full movement,
Speaker 3: which is like a very what is called the quiver
Speaker 3: full movement.
Speaker 2: Christ touches you quiver. It is very Christian nationalism.
Speaker 3: So like the quiver is like the thing that holds
Speaker 3: all of the arrows when you are doing archery. And
Speaker 3: the point is you want your quiver full of as
Speaker 3: many Christian soldiers, so you need to pro create as
Speaker 3: many Christian soldiers Christian you know, arrows.
Speaker 1: It's so wild how so many religions have a part
Speaker 1: of it where the guy has to impregnate a lot
Speaker 1: of women.
Speaker 6: It's almost like it's made up, weird.
Speaker 2: Like men, I was just watching it more of a
Speaker 2: cold docu series. Last he said that he wouldn't get
Speaker 2: into the highest level of heaven unless he had multiple wives,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that feels like you bet the yes.
Speaker 2: It feels like.
Speaker 3: Some dude fucking made it up because he really was
Speaker 3: attracted to the neighbors.
Speaker 6: He was just made a pussy ass bitch and he
Speaker 6: didn't know how to use his words.
Speaker 2: But other ones. I mean, you have doctor Barwin of Canada,
Speaker 2: Fuck you dude. He got.
Speaker 3: What that dude did was so he not only switched
Speaker 3: out the chosen donor donor sperm and IVF sperm as well.
Speaker 2: So like the dad in IVFS.
Speaker 1: Two, dude, that's so fuck The dad thinks he's the
Speaker 1: dad and then it's the doctor. If I was that
Speaker 1: dad I would go to that doctor's house and rip
Speaker 1: his dick off.
Speaker 2: I'm the stick off.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've met some of those victims and it's like, God,
Speaker 3: it's so fucking heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: I can't they all the intention was there.
Speaker 3: Oh my, it's God, and like some of them like
Speaker 3: suck the I met the parents and the son from
Speaker 3: from that and literally this the son found out like
Speaker 3: seven months ago, and he's in his forties, literally, and
Speaker 3: we were all in Washington, d C. Together lobbying for
Speaker 3: a Fertility for All legislation, and the parents were there
Speaker 3: supporting him as he was giving testimony, and they were
Speaker 3: in tears, and it was like God.
Speaker 2: Oh my God, that dad must have been so heartbroken.
Speaker 2: Everyone was.
Speaker 3: I mean, the mom was raped, the dad, this was
Speaker 3: stolen from him, and the kid is being I mean,
Speaker 3: he's not a kid, he's a full grown ass man,
Speaker 3: is being sweetest man in the world, just being really
Speaker 3: brave and getting test giving testimony as to yeah, maybe
Speaker 3: we should make this like criminalize it, maybe.
Speaker 2: We should make sure this doesn't fucking happen.
Speaker 6: Is they're a current maximum amount of donations that one
Speaker 6: sperm donor can make in terms.
Speaker 3: Of oh what now not in the United States, now,
Speaker 3: are you serious? So in the United States we do
Speaker 3: not have a federal family limit or sibling cap. The
Speaker 3: only place we do so Colorado, there was a sibling
Speaker 3: There was a family limit. One donor is allowed to
Speaker 3: donate for twenty five families.
Speaker 2: Too many were they're gonna fuck each other. You know,
Speaker 2: people look like their boyfriend or girlfriend like you're gonna
Speaker 2: one of them, is gonna fuck one of them one girl.
Speaker 3: You know that people in our community have already had
Speaker 3: accidental insests like that's already happened.
Speaker 2: That's already happened. Yeah, of course, yeah. I mean I
Speaker 2: felt some type of connection. I wasn't sure what it was,
Speaker 2: but it turns out that literally what's happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you fucking genetic mirror with someone and you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god.
Speaker 2: But you hear my was it a twin flame but
Speaker 2: your brother?
Speaker 3: But you mix it up and instead of realizing, oh,
Speaker 3: this is like I'm genetic mirroring, you think like, oh shit,
Speaker 3: you're my soulmate and then we have my data.
Speaker 2: Okay, oh my god.
Speaker 3: So Colorado, now that law hasn't been instituted yet, it
Speaker 3: will be instituted. Oh you know what yours is twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four. It'll be instituted next year in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: So right now, currently no family limit, no sibling cap whatsoever.
Speaker 2: In the United States. That is so fun.
Speaker 1: There's no limit for egg donors. But obviously, like your
Speaker 1: body puts a limit on that as a woman. So
Speaker 1: it's a little bit harder to create as many.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean give it, given the nature of egg
Speaker 3: donation is much harder. But the morning cryo banks will
Speaker 3: push what egg What they fucking do to egg donors?
Speaker 2: It drives me up a wall.
Speaker 3: They will they don't give two fucking ships about egg donors.
Speaker 3: There has been no studies, not no studies into the
Speaker 3: long term side effects of egg donation.
Speaker 1: And yet they are mentally or physically we're talking, are
Speaker 1: both both okay, yes, no.
Speaker 3: Joke, it's and they are going to college campuses, setting
Speaker 3: pop up tents.
Speaker 2: Recruiting eighteen year old eighteen years in the mid with
Speaker 2: like fifteen thousand dollars. We thought.
Speaker 1: Fifteen thirty it was. It was less than that thirty
Speaker 1: now it's thirty hours. You can get a lot of money,
Speaker 1: you can. It was less than now a lot of money. Well,
Speaker 1: I think I should say.
Speaker 2: Thousand dollars and I was like twelve thousand dollars when
Speaker 2: I was in college.
Speaker 3: No, and it's say they absolutely lie. They mislead, sure,
Speaker 3: and it's horrible. They lie about they they I mean,
Speaker 3: they say when you ask like, well, what are the
Speaker 3: long term side effects, they're like, no long term side
Speaker 3: effects have been found.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you fuckers haven't looked. They're lying flat out.
Speaker 3: And if you go on to social media, social media
Speaker 3: is riddled with like recruitment ads, like on TikTok, and
Speaker 3: they know fucking fourteen year olds are on TikTok, and
Speaker 3: they're making it like if you watch these videos that
Speaker 3: they make it sound like it's a haircut, and it's
Speaker 3: an incredibly invasive procedure. It fucking hurts, and a lot
Speaker 3: of times even with the short term side effects like
Speaker 3: ohss ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome, they don't even warn egg donors
Speaker 3: about that.
Speaker 2: Most of the time.
Speaker 3: And it's horrible and so okay, so sorry, So we're
Speaker 3: gonna So what we have is just to break it down,
Speaker 3: we have there's a difference between federal regulations like FDA regulations,
Speaker 3: so we have regulations laws, but then one we also
Speaker 3: have is what's called ASRM American Society of Productive Medicine.
Speaker 3: They're the ones who create the guidelines or recommendations for
Speaker 3: clinics and cryobanks to follow. So they have all of
Speaker 3: these recommendations like exactly so they say, like no, I
Speaker 3: even have a video on it on TikTok and went viral.
Speaker 2: It's over two million views. Check it out.
Speaker 3: But accordinate ANSWERM guidelines. You're not supposed to bring an
Speaker 3: egg donor. You're not supposed to have an egg donor
Speaker 3: donate for more than six cycles, like more than six times.
Speaker 3: And this egg donor is on TikTok going like I'm
Speaker 3: about to go in for my seventh time. She had
Speaker 3: no idea, and she had no idea that it was.
Speaker 2: Like, wait, is she making that her career?
Speaker 3: Uh no, but she was just donating because she wanted
Speaker 3: to donate again. But also a lot of times the
Speaker 3: clinics and cryobanks kind of pressure you, going like the
Speaker 3: parent wants another sibling, Maybe we just do it like
Speaker 3: one more time.
Speaker 2: It's really bad.
Speaker 3: I mean, we've had egg donors who have donated for
Speaker 3: twelve cycles. Oh my shit, it ups your chance for OHSS,
Speaker 3: and OHSS is very serious, like at worst you could die.
Speaker 3: At worst, I mean, and there's very small statistic, but
Speaker 3: you still can massive horrible side effects like oh says
Speaker 3: is not something to fuck around with. It's horrible and
Speaker 3: the and the problem is is like we have so
Speaker 3: much anecdotal evidence right now to the long term side
Speaker 3: effects of egg donation that we should absolutely be doing
Speaker 3: research on long term side effects like atholutely.
Speaker 2: The anecdotal evidence.
Speaker 3: We have is terrifying and if you want to look
Speaker 3: more into it, please look up doctor Diane tober She's
Speaker 3: the only one who's doing the research into the side effects.
Speaker 3: She's the only one like comparing the United States to
Speaker 3: other countries. She's literally gonna fucking save lives. She's coming
Speaker 3: out with a new book called Egonomics. I think like
Speaker 3: this coming fault. She's Oh my god, get doctor Dian
Speaker 3: tober On. She's literally a fucking queen. I love her.
Speaker 1: And this would be the same side effects though for
Speaker 1: people who are freezing them their eggs for themselves, so
Speaker 1: we obviously only doing it once.
Speaker 3: You know, we can't compare egg donors to people who
Speaker 3: are doing an IVF or doing eggs freezing. They're treated
Speaker 3: so completely differently that we can't even compare them. IVF
Speaker 3: patients and egg retrieval patients are patients, right, egg donors
Speaker 3: are fucking products, their merchandise.
Speaker 2: They're completely different.
Speaker 1: So it's just like the way they are treated in
Speaker 1: the medical industry, like the bedside manner almost are we
Speaker 1: talking about?
Speaker 2: Or and even.
Speaker 3: They don't treat them like people. They treat them like
Speaker 3: a fucking they treat them like merchants. They don't give
Speaker 3: a shit what happens to you.
Speaker 1: I just starting to see if it could kind of
Speaker 1: like broad in it also because I then I would
Speaker 1: worry about so many people are freezing their eggs these days,
Speaker 1: especially kind of like working women who I mean, listen
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 3: I would say, there's so many. I mean, that is
Speaker 3: a whole different ball of as. But I would say
Speaker 3: egg donor it is. I would say, we can't compare
Speaker 3: because they're treated so different. Okay, yeah, but I mean,
Speaker 3: and I can't believe.
Speaker 2: There's no max on how many donations one guy can give.
Speaker 2: I mean the amount of I've talked, have you met
Speaker 2: to fuck each other? Yeah? How is that for them?
Speaker 2: What the fuck.
Speaker 3: It's a bit traumatizing, be fucked up. There's no help.
Speaker 3: There's no help, there's no there's.
Speaker 1: About how traumatizing it is, even like when you're having
Speaker 1: sex and a family member comes into your minds, all.
Speaker 2: Right, so traumatizing. I mean.
Speaker 3: I was talking to I was talking to one of them,
Speaker 3: and we were were and and she was just like, I,
Speaker 3: you know, talking about how she's feeling. I don't know,
Speaker 3: I feel ashamed and everything. And I and I'm like, girl,
Speaker 3: you saw a spark in his eye.
Speaker 2: That was not fake.
Speaker 3: I was like, whatever you feel is how you feel
Speaker 3: about it. You are literally you are the one clearing
Speaker 3: the way. You are not the only one. But I
Speaker 3: was like, there's no rea, there's no there's no research
Speaker 3: for you, there's no book, there's no.
Speaker 2: How to deal with the fact that you fucked your brother.
Speaker 2: There's nothing. What do I do next?
Speaker 3: There's nothing to help you. You're literally paving the way.
Speaker 3: However you feel is how you feel this was unfair.
Speaker 2: You are a fucking victim, Like id out.
Speaker 3: I can't for privacy sake, I can't go fully go
Speaker 3: into it right now. But because it is a little
Speaker 3: bit of.
Speaker 2: From this I haven't that comes out of the womb
Speaker 2: with glasses on. Like what I haven't met.
Speaker 3: I haven't met uh tow donor conceived people who are
Speaker 3: siblings who have made a baby.
Speaker 2: I haven't met them yet.
Speaker 3: All I've met is people who have like accidentally had
Speaker 3: sex with siblings.
Speaker 2: And I totally that's that's hard. That sucks.
Speaker 1: That suckspened to me because who loves their own genies?
Speaker 2: But chance I coming Claire, I think.
Speaker 1: It would happen to me too, like because I like,
Speaker 1: I like this person reminds me of me, my dream.
Speaker 2: It's like they're half made, but with the dick.
Speaker 3: I mean made sure you're not donor conceived, right, we've
Speaker 3: done the twenty three may my brothers, I mean we
Speaker 3: looks yeah, we're I mean after being dad yeah okay yeah.
Speaker 3: But it's always like I'm such in favor now of
Speaker 3: like everyone, like are you sure?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah, because the amount of people, I'm a
Speaker 2: little crazy.
Speaker 1: So like I had my brother did it, and then
Speaker 1: I was like that looks like what we were told.
Speaker 1: And then I didn't want my actual blood on and
Speaker 1: and spit on flat file, so I didn't fair enough
Speaker 1: to do it.
Speaker 2: Myself because I was like, I.
Speaker 1: Know the kind of trouble I'm going to get into,
Speaker 1: and just me separating myself from the government. I think
Speaker 1: it's the best bet for me personally. No, I totally
Speaker 1: get it. I totally got it. But yeah, No, there's
Speaker 1: so sibling pods.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've talked to now, God, I've talked to
Speaker 3: so many sibling pods that are over like one hundred. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it's so fucked up. It's so you know, very
Speaker 3: casual and like you know, they there's so many of
Speaker 3: the siblings are like I was my sibling's next door neighbor,
Speaker 3: had no idea why went to school with my sibling.
Speaker 3: I had a crush on my sibling. We dated the
Speaker 3: same person.
Speaker 2: We did date.
Speaker 3: I went to the same college. Childhood best friends, Yeah,
Speaker 3: by my best friend, my sister that is.
Speaker 2: Age, that's Corinne was so I ended up living.
Speaker 1: I was born in Pennsylvania, in Doylestown, Pennsylvania, where my
Speaker 1: sperm donor worked.
Speaker 2: At a hospital.
Speaker 6: And I believe that one of the siblings that I
Speaker 6: that was raised by him, So it was his daughter
Speaker 6: biologically and like familiarly, I.
Speaker 2: Think was born in PA somewhere.
Speaker 1: We ended up living a block away from each other
Speaker 1: in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, and I was like.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's so weird. And Karenn was there when
Speaker 2: I met her.
Speaker 6: And I felt so I had to go outside and
Speaker 6: like worn off a panic attack, but it felt like
Speaker 6: she was so cool. She was so she had this
Speaker 6: like I don't know, there's something, there was a there
Speaker 6: was a connection.
Speaker 2: That I felt.
Speaker 6: She probably was like I can't imagine how she felt
Speaker 6: because it was her dad who donated to to multiple people,
Speaker 6: so she's.
Speaker 2: Talked to a lot of people about this, but like.
Speaker 6: I felt like a kinship with her immediately, and I
Speaker 6: felt like we had the same freckles on our arms,
Speaker 6: which I don't know if I was making that up,
Speaker 6: but I felt some type of connection with her.
Speaker 3: And I was like, what, well, because you were genetic
Speaker 3: mirroring for the very first time with pieces of you
Speaker 3: that you have never seen in your family, and you
Speaker 3: saw them for the very first time. And yeah, it
Speaker 3: can be very overwhelming. It can be healing, it can
Speaker 3: be it can be overstimulating. It can so but please
Speaker 3: know that that's very normal. Like literally donors people when
Speaker 3: they find their siblings, they literally send each other pictures
Speaker 3: of their feet, going.
Speaker 2: Do you have this kind of toe?
Speaker 3: Totally yeah, it's totally normal, Like we all do that.
Speaker 3: We compare hand like the amount of like shit that
Speaker 3: when I found one of my sisters we were messaging
Speaker 3: each other like I was.
Speaker 2: Like, do you get the fucking weird blisters on your
Speaker 2: hands in the summer? She was like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 2: get that on Like it's so weird that genetic similarity
Speaker 2: also with this emotional piece of it, because it's like logically,
Speaker 2: I'm like, why do I have an emotion like I'm
Speaker 2: crying now? Like why I don't?
Speaker 6: I don't know, But the genetic mirroring, I guess I
Speaker 6: suppose it's like it's an emotional thing.
Speaker 3: It is because we all crave seeing ourselves within our
Speaker 3: family and we seeing ourselves within our group in our community.
Speaker 3: There's a safety in it because there's a sense of
Speaker 3: belonging and it's and look, both are true. DNA doesn't
Speaker 3: matter and DNA does matter.
Speaker 2: Both are true.
Speaker 3: They both matter, and it's yeah, you're I mean, you
Speaker 3: know for me, like my dad is my dad? Absolutely,
Speaker 3: my dad is my dad. But it would have been
Speaker 3: incredibly healing and validating and very good for me as
Speaker 3: a kid. To have been able to have that genetic
Speaker 3: mirroring with my biological family. Being able to have a
Speaker 3: relationship with my siblings would have been incredibly good for
Speaker 3: me emotionally. It would have been really good for me
Speaker 3: to know that, like I was fucking half Jewish. I've
Speaker 3: been dealing with anti Semitism my entire life. Had no
Speaker 3: fucking clue that's what I was dealing with. A lot
Speaker 3: of people didn't like me. So we were both fifty
Speaker 3: percent austronlogy to do it. That fifty percent is my
Speaker 3: percentage too. I was just looking at did you grew up?
Speaker 3: Where did you grow up?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: No, religion my parents. My mom was too mentally illo.
Speaker 2: She did have time. But so but which is great
Speaker 2: because I got to find my own religion.
Speaker 6: But I'm like, oh, that's I don't feel like when
Speaker 6: I told Karna was Jewish, she was like, I knew it,
Speaker 6: but I just I said, it.
Speaker 2: Is just explained a lie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, like
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 6: But I'm always like when I started to meet Jewish people,
Speaker 6: when I went to New York, I didn't realize there
Speaker 6: was one Jewish kid in my high school in Pennsylvania
Speaker 6: who was lovely, and I always felt like a like,
Speaker 6: I think the Jewish like the I've had Jewish friends
Speaker 6: invite me to their satyrs, their family satyrs.
Speaker 2: And it's I always I'm like, what a beautiful religion
Speaker 2: this is.
Speaker 6: It's beautiful really like all religion, though there are extreme
Speaker 6: versions of it that are absolute horseshit, but at the
Speaker 6: heart it's beautiful. And like with everything happening with Israel
Speaker 6: and Palestine and stuff, I'm like, I don't don't, I
Speaker 6: don't know when I.
Speaker 2: Go to think, what do you think that you're fifty
Speaker 2: percent Jewish? Nothing, I don't know. I don't know, But
Speaker 2: do you have thoughts on for you?
Speaker 3: My gosh, when it comes to like my yeah, my identity,
Speaker 3: it's been it's it's really hard because it's like you,
Speaker 3: because I want to be really respectful to the culture,
Speaker 3: to the ethnicity, to the religion, because it is an
Speaker 3: ethno religion, and it's like I obviously never want to
Speaker 3: step on toes of like closed practices and be like respectful.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you can't pull the Jewish cart, like, well, you
Speaker 6: knew for your most of your life.
Speaker 2: No, I knew when I was fifteen.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry when I was twenty five I found out
Speaker 3: went to say I was twenty five, Okay, I didn't
Speaker 3: find out twenty five.
Speaker 6: Oh okay, yeah, because I can't, like, I don't. I'm
Speaker 6: gonna pull out the cart like for what.
Speaker 1: Like I didn't know, but oh, there's a lot you
Speaker 1: can pull it out for. I'll tell you what. Okay,
Speaker 1: sick sick For.
Speaker 3: Me, it's a I have never And I know this
Speaker 3: is like a weird thing, but it's like, and what
Speaker 3: I've realized is I so I didn't grow up in
Speaker 3: the culture. I didn't grow up with like I grew
Speaker 3: up in like the Catholic Church and everything. But from
Speaker 3: the world, I have always been been perceived as Jewish,
Speaker 3: always have been perceived as Jewish. I am not quote
Speaker 3: unquote white passing. That's never That's such a weird thing
Speaker 3: to say. But it's like, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I don't. Everyone always assumes I'm Jewish.
Speaker 3: And so I've been dealing with anti Semitism since I
Speaker 3: was as early as I can remember.
Speaker 2: As like twelve eleven years. Can you give me examples
Speaker 2: of it?
Speaker 3: Oh God, I remember like a kid ran up to
Speaker 3: me and was like how do you escape from the
Speaker 3: camps Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: I remember this is in New York.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, people are so anti synthetic. It's actually crazy.
Speaker 2: It was in New York, it was in Westchester.
Speaker 3: People would make like, don't leave change around Laura, and
Speaker 3: I would never understood what the fuck is going on.
Speaker 1: I feel like half the reason Jews are so funny
Speaker 1: is like because we've been because anti Semitic jokes are
Speaker 1: so hacked that we're like, we got to write something better.
Speaker 2: Yeah suck, we got we got a better problem.
Speaker 6: We got we got to punch up your racist retorts here.
Speaker 3: So for me, it's a it's a very weird thing.
Speaker 3: Whereas like I didn't grow up in the community, I
Speaker 3: did not grow up within the culture weird, but by
Speaker 3: the world I am perceived as this and it's a
Speaker 3: very So it's like for me, that's why I always
Speaker 3: say I'm half ash Kenazi Jewish. I never say I'm Jewish,
Speaker 3: never say I'm half Jewish. I feel like that's a
Speaker 3: step too far. I'm always half ash Kanazi Jewish. Always
Speaker 3: bring it back to like no, no, no, this is a
Speaker 3: DNA thing, sure, And that's where I respect it and
Speaker 3: that's where I started to draw the line. But it's
Speaker 3: been like it's a lot of imposter syndrome for me,
Speaker 3: and yeah, that that's where it's sort of Uh, my
Speaker 3: donor was a rabbi and is a rabbi. He's Orthodox Rabbi.
Speaker 3: I'm Oyle and I.
Speaker 2: Was wondering if you ever, well, so, how did you
Speaker 2: ever find out who he is? With the anonymity that
Speaker 2: he don't needed with twenty three and me?
Speaker 3: I got connected to one of his cousins and she
Speaker 3: was like, it has to be one of these three
Speaker 3: relatives and he narrowed it down and I was like, well,
Speaker 3: I was born here, and she was just like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's him.
Speaker 2: Have you met him? No, he has made it. I
Speaker 2: would love uh, I would at one of his services. Yes,
Speaker 2: I wanted to change you. I would love the medical history.
Speaker 2: That is number one.
Speaker 3: When I first found him, I was like I was
Speaker 3: open to meeting him, maybe even having like a nice
Speaker 3: cordial relationship, but it was like it was one of
Speaker 3: those things like I just don't know because I just
Speaker 3: don't know him. But I definitely wanted the medical history
Speaker 3: and he just never answered me back.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: Then my my sister came into the fold. She messaged
Speaker 3: him half sister. Yeah, yeah, she's a different yeah. She
Speaker 3: she and her full sister were also conceived using the
Speaker 3: same donor.
Speaker 2: Got it.
Speaker 3: So she messaged him because she has a shitload of
Speaker 3: medical issue and she was like, I need medical answers.
Speaker 2: He never answered her. Bad damn. And he's not obligated too,
Speaker 2: but what the fuck did well? The cop is he should?
Speaker 2: He should do it? He is.
Speaker 3: He's a dad, he raised two kids, he's a fucking doctor.
Speaker 3: He's a rabbi. So there's like a little bit of altruism,
Speaker 3: I would hope, rabbi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm like cool as hell. And then I
Speaker 2: religious heads all suck. I mean sorry, not all. I
Speaker 2: read a book. It's the power trip. You can't give
Speaker 2: people that much power. That's true. That's true. Yeah, no
Speaker 2: matter what your religion or your gender is. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So then what happened was I messaged him one more
Speaker 3: time because at this point I fucking learned my shit,
Speaker 3: and I messaged him. I found out that I was like,
Speaker 3: he had been donating for at least six years, so
Speaker 3: I have I most likely have over fifty. We all
Speaker 3: seem to be having some medical issues, and so I
Speaker 3: messaged him going like, hey, dude, look, I understand you
Speaker 3: don't want to really like whatever that's called, Like I
Speaker 3: will sign whatever piece of payaper that says we will
Speaker 3: never name you, we will never ask you for anything.
Speaker 3: We can't ask him for anything, but like, yeah, still
Speaker 3: I will do it for his own comfort. We just
Speaker 3: need medical history. I was like, we know, and I
Speaker 3: kind of want because I wanted him to know that,
Speaker 3: like I fucking did my research, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I know, you started donating in nineteen eighty two. I
Speaker 3: am so far the youngest. So you donated at least
Speaker 3: through nineteen eighty seven. You donated all throughout medical school.
Speaker 3: And while you were like a doctor, a lot of
Speaker 3: jacket off, a lot of fucking jacket off.
Speaker 1: It's such a it's such a tender word for what's
Speaker 1: really happening.
Speaker 2: Your master making off my closet so philanthropic.
Speaker 3: And so I told him this because I wanted him
Speaker 3: to know that, like I've looked into you, dude. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I also to to like I stalked him on Facebook,
Speaker 3: and he's kind, he's he's not like he's not the nicest.
Speaker 3: We'll just say he little bit of a little bit
Speaker 3: of a racist. So I'm like, not interested in a
Speaker 3: relationist rabbi. Yeah, not not the nicest dude. I was worn.
Speaker 3: When I did actually meet his first cousin, she was
Speaker 3: being very sweet to me and she was just like
Speaker 3: just letting you know he's he's not the nicest and
Speaker 3: she's Grace and she was just like, yeah, I've not
Speaker 3: spoken to him in like I in like years.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, he's dick. Yeah. So I was just like, Okay,
Speaker 2: good to know. That's great. That's sad.
Speaker 3: I have to now deal with that cool, which is like,
Speaker 3: all right, that sucks. But honestly, though, a lot of
Speaker 3: us in the community have to deal with that when
Speaker 3: we find out. It's heartbreaking finding out your donor, your
Speaker 3: biological parent, is a dick. Do you know how many
Speaker 3: donors are homophobic?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: God, like you donating, you're fucking donating sperm.
Speaker 3: Sixty percent of the revenue is from the goddamn queer
Speaker 3: community and you're fucking homophobic.
Speaker 2: That's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3: And so many donor can see people are queer as well,
Speaker 3: and that's a heartbreaking thing to find out when you
Speaker 3: find out the donor is an absolute piece of shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I tried it. I tried to ask the daughter.
Speaker 2: I asked, I offered to take her out, you know,
Speaker 2: because I was like, I would love to ask.
Speaker 6: You questions about your dad. I would love to learn
Speaker 6: about like what he was like. And she was like yay,
Speaker 6: and but I but I could tell she.
Speaker 2: Wasn't like excited. I'm like, I don't want that. That's
Speaker 2: I do not want to be disrespectful to you. So
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 1: I stop pushing, because if I were her, I'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: fuck off, lady, like I don't want I don't want
Speaker 1: to do that.
Speaker 2: So I get it. But she's she's very kind.
Speaker 6: But yeah, it's the thing I got to and about
Speaker 6: two years later, after I found out through asking.
Speaker 1: My mom, uh is when I finally had an opinion
Speaker 1: on it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the opinion was because I went to a doctor's
Speaker 2: appointment and they're like, what's your mom's medical history, what's
Speaker 2: your dad's And I was like, wait, I don't fucking know,
Speaker 2: Like I was writing diabetes cancer, I have no idea.
Speaker 6: Yep, Oh that's fucked, Like that's so fucked and even
Speaker 6: you know, maybe my parents.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 1: It was a thing where the clinic didn't tell the
Speaker 1: who it was, so they couldn't have gotten me that
Speaker 1: information anyway. But I'm like, that's what finally made me
Speaker 1: mad that they didn't tell me. Okay, I've been writing
Speaker 1: the wrong medical information down on these forms, Like.
Speaker 2: That's fucked up. You gotta do that full body scan.
Speaker 1: That's like three thousand dollars a little more than Kim
Speaker 1: Kardashian did.
Speaker 2: Well. But yeah, even though, but.
Speaker 3: The thing is like those things and that doesn't Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: it really doesn't help you out as much as you
Speaker 3: think it does, like when you do like those insane
Speaker 3: I mean, I I always like, as if you can
Speaker 3: afford a genetic counselor, go fucking do it great.
Speaker 2: What's a genetic coun.
Speaker 3: A genetic counselor is like someone who will, like you know,
Speaker 3: like go through your genetics, do do different panels with
Speaker 3: you and tell you like what your carrier for and
Speaker 3: everything I can give you. I can give you some names.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, one who's great for everyone. Look up at DINA, DNA,
Speaker 3: d e n A.
Speaker 2: She did, she did.
Speaker 3: I found out I'm a carrier for cystic fibrosis. We
Speaker 3: have to especially learning that we're Ashkinazi need to make
Speaker 3: sure that we don't carry the brockagene breast cancer gene.
Speaker 2: So that's a big one we got a test for.
Speaker 3: But it's the thing about genetic testing that people don't
Speaker 3: understand is we still to this day cannot test for
Speaker 3: everything that you can genetically inherit. That's just impossible that
Speaker 3: we can't do that. And these cryobanks and these clinics
Speaker 3: make it sound like, oh my god, we test for
Speaker 3: all these diseases.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: They don't test for as much as they think that
Speaker 3: you do. And then the medical history is self reported
Speaker 3: by the donor. None of the clinics and the cryobanks
Speaker 3: have to verify any of it.
Speaker 2: They lie all.
Speaker 3: Because it's eighteen year old frapp boys.
Speaker 1: It could be lying or they could just like be wrong,
Speaker 1: or like the amount of times that I've shown like
Speaker 1: show and I've been written something and my mom's like
Speaker 1: why did you write that? And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I thought that was like the conversation that we had
Speaker 1: and she just like no, And I was like, okay, well, I.
Speaker 3: Like think about yourself at like eighteen nineteen year old,
Speaker 3: how much did you actually know about your medical history,
Speaker 3: your family's medical history.
Speaker 2: You knew jack shit.
Speaker 3: And also the amount of things you can't even be
Speaker 3: diagnosed for until like you're in your late twenties, and
Speaker 3: like when you're eighteen nineteen, your family'd be fine. Give
Speaker 3: it five years, shit starts popping up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a special especially mental health, because I feel like
Speaker 1: this is kind of the first generation that we were
Speaker 1: talking about it. So I'm like, listen, I'm sure all
Speaker 1: I know is a lot of those people were crazy.
Speaker 1: I don't know about medically what type of crazy, But
Speaker 1: write that down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, a story that I think really good points to. Yeah,
Speaker 3: well let's let's talk about schizophrenia.
Speaker 2: So there's a story. You can look it up.
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal did a story on it about Steven Gunner.
Speaker 3: So Steven Gunner donor conceived person. Uh, and he is
Speaker 3: from a Fairfax cryobank. So there his mom, Laura Gunner,
Speaker 3: who I love Laura Gunner. I will stand in front
Speaker 3: of a bus for I love you. Laura and her
Speaker 3: husband purchased sperm from Fairfax and at four years old,
Speaker 3: Steven started showing signs of mental illness, like there was
Speaker 3: just there was something. At four he started showing signs
Speaker 3: like there was there was definitely something up, and they
Speaker 3: were great parents. They did everything immediately. They brought him
Speaker 3: to therapists, they brought him to psychologists. They were they
Speaker 3: were like, hey, what can we do And they were like, well,
Speaker 3: what what's your child's medical history? And they showed the
Speaker 3: donor profile and they were like here you go and
Speaker 3: they're like, oh, it's completely clear. Okay, cool, Well, we'll
Speaker 3: just keep figuring this out. And it was his entire
Speaker 3: life in out of mental institutions, psychiatrists, different medications, and
Speaker 3: it was all these different things trying to figure it out,
Speaker 3: and Stephen was suffering horribly. Eventually, in his early twenties,
Speaker 3: he was diagnosed with schizophrenia and he odeed, oh baby,
Speaker 3: And this is why I love Laura more than anything
Speaker 3: in the world. Laura Gunner, in her state of mourning
Speaker 3: the loss of her son in one of the most
Speaker 3: horrific ways, was like, holy shit, I need to make
Speaker 3: sure his siblings know in case they need to know.
Speaker 2: It for their health. Oh good on her. I fucking
Speaker 2: love this woman.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 3: And so she was contacting finding them, making sure that
Speaker 3: they had that diagnosis because it can be genetic, and
Speaker 3: through that she found the donor's mother and found out
Speaker 3: the donor had odied a couple years prior. Fuck, and
Speaker 3: they found out the donor started donating at nineteen years old,
Speaker 3: now he was, and when he was fourteen years old,
Speaker 3: the donor had a and the donor at four years old, sorry,
Speaker 3: starting at four years old, was showing signs of mental illness,
Speaker 3: just like it in and out of, in and out
Speaker 3: of therapists, psychologists, different medications. At fourteen years old, the
Speaker 3: donor had a massive, massive, massive episode, threatened his father
Speaker 3: with a baseball bat, locked himself in his attic, and
Speaker 3: the attic was like an insane like almost literally cooked
Speaker 3: himself to death. Firefighters had to come rescue him, and
Speaker 3: he was instituted, and he was instituted for like, I
Speaker 3: think a month, and that that episode was not on
Speaker 3: the donor profile, that entire thing was not on there. Now,
Speaker 3: he was not diagnosed with schizophrenia til his early twenties,
Speaker 3: so he was donating before that, because again usually schizophrenia
Speaker 3: diagnosis comes in in your early two twenties.
Speaker 2: But if that information.
Speaker 3: Had been able to get to Stephen to his family,
Speaker 3: he could have gotten a diagnosis, he could have gotten
Speaker 3: health a lot sooner didn't have to be in this
Speaker 3: fucking diagnostic like they would have diagnosed too much sooner
Speaker 3: because it it was literally it was identical. It was
Speaker 3: identical to his fucking donor. And even though it didn't
Speaker 3: have the diagnosis of schizophrenia in the it wouldn't have
Speaker 3: had it still should have had the he was instituted
Speaker 3: for a month, because that would have told Stephen's doctors like, hey,
Speaker 3: there seems to be a history and serious and we're
Speaker 3: not looking at you going what's wrong with you?
Speaker 2: Because that's going to make anybody suffering from mental health problems.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes there's like overlap, you know, whether it's like
Speaker 1: multiple personality, bipolar or schizophrenia, thing that could be misdiagnosed.
Speaker 3: It takes a long time. It's so hard to diagnose
Speaker 3: these things. And now what Laura Gunner is doing is
Speaker 3: she has created the Donor Conceived Person's Protection Act, which
Speaker 3: we are currently trying to vote in in New York,
Speaker 3: which should require all clinics and criobanks in New York
Speaker 3: State to verify the medical history that a donor hands
Speaker 3: fucking in.
Speaker 2: How do we vote for that? How do we? How
Speaker 2: do we?
Speaker 3: How do we call your legislature. Call your legislature and
Speaker 3: say you want to support the donor Conceived Person's Protection Act. Shit, okay, yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: donor can see Person's Protection Act. We need that in
Speaker 3: New York State because if we can get a past
Speaker 3: to New York, we can get it past other places.
Speaker 2: That's a big one.
Speaker 3: Also, if you want to, as we were talking about
Speaker 3: fertility fraud, I will be back in Washington, DC early
Speaker 3: February of this year.
Speaker 2: We are trying.
Speaker 3: So only thirteen states have passed fertility fraud legislation, only thirteen.
Speaker 3: New York is not one of them because we have
Speaker 3: a lot of the industry here. So if you are
Speaker 3: in a state that doesn't have fertility fraud legislation past,
Speaker 3: it's you, it's.
Speaker 5: You.
Speaker 3: Might be very out of luck if you, because it
Speaker 3: would take a very very special circumstance to be able
Speaker 3: to get any kind of justice. It's very very hard
Speaker 3: to get justice with fertility fraud. I'm literally talking to Donor.
Speaker 3: Can see people who are in the midst of litigation
Speaker 3: right now, and they are and like the doctor is
Speaker 3: like fully admitting it, he's getting deposition. He's saying shit,
Speaker 3: like my sperm was worthy. My sperm will live on forever.
Speaker 3: Like he's saying this shit and the lawyers are like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't think we're going to be able to do anything.
Speaker 2: I don't think we're going to be able to get
Speaker 2: him for shit. The world was built for men.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So if you want to get fertility fraud edge now.
Speaker 3: So we're fighting for fertility fraud legislation to be passed federally, Yes,
Speaker 3: because it will criminalize it. Yeah you want, it's a
Speaker 3: very narrow you're scared. Yeah, well we have to. We
Speaker 3: got to pass the fucking legislation because like two more
Speaker 3: fertility fraud cases popped up in December, and the doctor
Speaker 3: that was caught in Washington, his name is like doctor Herdin.
Speaker 3: I can't remember his last name. Fuck, it's like h
Speaker 3: E R D O N something like that. But it
Speaker 3: was in Washington state. He's been accused of committing fertility
Speaker 3: fraud as early as two thousand and nine, so very early,
Speaker 3: and that would be the most early case that has
Speaker 3: come out. So HR four fifty one is uh the
Speaker 3: federal fertility fraud legislation. This would criminalize it, give a
Speaker 3: ten year statute of limitations. So if you find out
Speaker 3: you're a product of fertility fraud or you find out
Speaker 3: your victim of fertility fraud.
Speaker 2: You have ten years to do something.
Speaker 1: I was watching if there was like a statute of
Speaker 1: limitations or something, okay, which.
Speaker 3: Is a big reason why it's very hard to prosecute
Speaker 3: because again, usually don't find out that you're a victim
Speaker 3: of fertility fraud until forty years later.
Speaker 2: The ten year thing does that from when you find out,
Speaker 2: when you find out, oh so when you find out.
Speaker 1: So when you were conceived, you're fucking it emotionally and
Speaker 1: then yeah, yea yeah, take second.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, also you want to find a pattern of behavior,
Speaker 3: so it's like it wasn't just me, it was also
Speaker 3: ten other kings. So it allows you to really put
Speaker 3: together a solid case. So the fertility fraud legislation, it's
Speaker 3: a very narrow bill. It's bipartisan. It's like already got
Speaker 3: like something forty forty five co signatories like our It's
Speaker 3: very bipartisan, and right now it's stuck in the Judiciary Committee.
Speaker 3: So what you also can do is call your local
Speaker 3: legislature and you say.
Speaker 2: I need you to support Hr. Four fifty one.
Speaker 3: And this is bipartisan, like, we've gotten both sides of
Speaker 3: the aisle. This is it, guys, We've gotten everyone to
Speaker 3: like us.
Speaker 2: Yes, it'll make us come together. This is it.
Speaker 3: It's doner conception that we all somehow agree on this
Speaker 3: is probably we got it.
Speaker 2: Basically. The only guys that don't agree on those doctors.
Speaker 2: So that's exactly.
Speaker 3: Well, it's taken a while for the industry to actually
Speaker 3: get their ass in gear and to actually support fertility
Speaker 3: fraud legislation, because up until December this past December, they
Speaker 3: were saying like, oh, of course fertility fraud is like horrible,
Speaker 3: but we don't need regulations, We don't need actual legislation
Speaker 3: because it doesn't happen anymore, so why should we do that?
Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm like you fuck pieces of shit, rapists
Speaker 3: are gonna rape, like fuck you, And it was it
Speaker 3: was so angering. I actually I have a video on
Speaker 3: it if you want to see. It's on my TikTok,
Speaker 3: It's on my Instagram where I literally show quotes from
Speaker 3: the industry on how that they've handled it. Specifically ASRM,
Speaker 3: which is the group that creates the guidelines and for
Speaker 3: the clients and cryobanks to follow. They were you can
Speaker 3: see the quotes yourself from uh Sean Tipton, who is
Speaker 3: like their fucking mouthpiece. But again, they've they've seemed to
Speaker 3: be changing their tune because I think they've realized, oh shit,
Speaker 3: eighty doctors, this is getting kind of serious. It's a
Speaker 3: little bit more than we thought popsy poop poopsy, and
Speaker 3: they're still coming out. Like there's been no slowdown of
Speaker 3: the doctors being discovered. It's maintained studies, so we know
Speaker 3: we still have more. And also like I've spoken to
Speaker 3: sibling pods who are products of fertility fraud who have
Speaker 3: just not come out because they're like, we don't want to.
Speaker 2: So it's like it's there's it's a lot more than
Speaker 2: we think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and these doctors are fucking they're horrible, but so
Speaker 3: fertility fraud Legislation HR four fifty one, And if you
Speaker 3: specifically want to learn more about it, you want to
Speaker 3: really help support it, follow at Eve Wiley w i
Speaker 3: l e y. Eve Wiley is a product of fertility fraud.
Speaker 3: She's the one who spearheaded the fertility fraud legislation. She's
Speaker 3: literally like one of my favorite human beings. You can
Speaker 3: also follow Jacoba Ballard, who was like the lead in
Speaker 3: Our Father. She's obviously like her and Eve are very
Speaker 3: like lockstep with getting this done. But if you want
Speaker 3: to help with like sibling pod numbers, like making sure
Speaker 3: there's family limits, follow us DCC, the United States Donor
Speaker 3: Conceived Council. They're the ones who got the Colorado limit
Speaker 3: put in. They're actively trying to get They're trying to
Speaker 3: get more limits put in. They're trying to make more
Speaker 3: states a mandatory open ID at eighteen. They did that
Speaker 3: to Colorado. They're trying to make more of it happen.
Speaker 3: They're wonderful. They have great resources as well. They do
Speaker 3: great advocacy, great place to support because we are in
Speaker 3: terms of the United States, we have like one of
Speaker 3: the most unregulated countries in terms of a donor conception.
Speaker 3: Many other countries are much more regulated than US. So
Speaker 3: it's well, the UK has a ten family sibling limit.
Speaker 2: Oh that's good. Yeah, it's much more regulated. Look at that.
Speaker 3: It can you know, it can't happen. And that's the
Speaker 3: thing that's the most frustrating is like.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, we can do this. It's possible.
Speaker 3: You just don't want to do it because it's a
Speaker 3: multi billion dollar industry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a money man. Do you know, like a
Speaker 2: vial of sperm can run up to two thousand dollars? Dude,
Speaker 2: you're so you pay a hike? Yeah, it's it's also
Speaker 2: an exact.
Speaker 3: You pay for a subscription to the bank to just
Speaker 3: be part of like the bank. Then you pay for
Speaker 3: the vials of sperm. You pay extra money to see
Speaker 3: a photo of the donor get their full.
Speaker 2: Metal money to see a fucking photo joint, just to
Speaker 2: buy vials and throw them all. I mean, oh my.
Speaker 1: God, next year for Christmas vial sperm, I'm sure the
Speaker 1: fire My favorite.
Speaker 3: My favorite is that a vile of sperm is not
Speaker 3: a full load okay, because darn they donate a full
Speaker 3: load and then they split that into multiple sellable vials,
Speaker 3: so you guys don't need a guy.
Speaker 2: Do you know how much a guy makes to donate sperm?
Speaker 2: Usually between one hundred to one hundred and fifty per donation.
Speaker 6: That's it, I mean, it's pretty it's all for two
Speaker 6: thousand bucks. I'm like, I could just fucking make a
Speaker 6: business and get refrigerator.
Speaker 2: Well, one don't give guys porn.
Speaker 3: One donor who I spoke to who donated to Zetex.
Speaker 3: His name is Donor Dylan. You can find him very easily.
Speaker 3: He's great. He does a lot of great advocacy. So
Speaker 3: he's now up to like I think, like ninety four
Speaker 3: kids now totally he was lied to as well, and
Speaker 3: he's doing great advocacy with us. Dylan was like, at
Speaker 3: the end of it, I think he made about twenty
Speaker 3: thousand dollars. Okay, but we did the math on how
Speaker 3: my which money, like his vials were sold for so
Speaker 3: much for industry made Yeah, about a million dollars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, I was like, twenty thousand
Speaker 1: for ninety four kids doesn't seem like.
Speaker 2: A good thing, right dollar anyway? But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I get it. And so and that's just one donor though,
Speaker 2: that's one.
Speaker 1: Women could masturbate and then put the liquid in a
Speaker 1: cup and then get paid for it.
Speaker 2: You can.
Speaker 1: That's a different I think that it's only fans though, Oh, oh,
Speaker 1: different one. I'd be a millionaire in a month. This
Speaker 1: is amazing, Laura, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: We have to wrap.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for dedicating I've told you this before,
Speaker 6: but I want to say it again, dedicating so much
Speaker 6: of your energy to this topic because somebody's got to
Speaker 6: fucking do it. And it seems like you are on
Speaker 6: the leading edge with a lot of other advocates that
Speaker 6: are really spending a lot of your time and your
Speaker 6: emotional resources. I can't imagine this isn't like emotionally draining
Speaker 6: for you to like continuously be broken hearted by the
Speaker 6: way that things are currently run.
Speaker 3: But you, people like you, are what's going to make
Speaker 3: a change in the world. So thank you very much,
Speaker 3: thank you. I mean, it's definitely it's not just it's
Speaker 3: just not just me. There's a massive community of advocates
Speaker 3: who are doing some fucking incredible work.
Speaker 2: That's awesome, I will say.
Speaker 3: And this is always like kind of the in my opinion,
Speaker 3: the silver lining to it. In a world filled with
Speaker 3: complicated problems that are almost impossible to really solve, this
Speaker 3: isn't it. This is easy. We can add a sibling
Speaker 3: cat like this is. We can make it. We can
Speaker 3: make donor conceptions safe and ethical for all parties involved.
Speaker 3: This is very, very doable in our lifetime.
Speaker 2: We can fix this.
Speaker 3: And as broken hearted as I get listening to some
Speaker 3: of the stories and as dark as it can get.
Speaker 3: There's also I will say, our community is fucking awesome.
Speaker 3: I'm literally tonight I'm going to the premiere of a
Speaker 3: musical written by a donor conceived person about donor conception.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: And our community is going to be there, all supporting her,
Speaker 3: Aaron Maya. And we're a very tight knit community, and
Speaker 3: it's They're some of the nicest people. And I hope
Speaker 3: that we can like maybe we've you in so you
Speaker 3: can kind of ye you can, because they're they're.
Speaker 1: Really cool, awesome, really cool people. And speaking of cool people,
Speaker 1: where can we find you online? What would you like
Speaker 1: to promote?
Speaker 2: Where can we follow you?
Speaker 3: Absolutely my you can find me at Laura High five
Speaker 3: everywhere you can also if you want to go so
Speaker 3: those are like for more short form videos. If you
Speaker 3: want to go in the weeds, you got my podcast Insemination,
Speaker 3: which is all Things Stone are Conceived, and then follow
Speaker 3: me like on Instagram or my website ww dot Laura
Speaker 3: high five dot com to get my show schedule. I'll
Speaker 3: be in Washington, DC performing end of January and also
Speaker 3: mid April as well. I'll have more dates coming up
Speaker 3: in terms of shows. I'm being lazy as fuck and
Speaker 3: I haven't like updated my website on my show schedule,
Speaker 3: and I'm like kind of fucking damn it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here, Laura. This has
Speaker 1: been Guys We Fucked, the Anti Sluts Mean podcast. We'll
Speaker 1: talk to you and next Friday. Guys We Fucked is
Speaker 1: presented by Luminary Create and hosted by Karen Fisher and
Speaker 1: Christie Hutchinson. Editing and music coordination by Mike Coscarelli. Theme
Speaker 1: song by Rob Patterson and Jake Cozen.
Speaker 2: Suck my wet ass pussy. Christina said to cut that before,
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