Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2: I'm welcome to.
Speaker 3: Step On Never Told your production of iHeartRadio. Yes, we
Speaker 3: are back with another classic. We are moving towards the
Speaker 3: end of January, I believe as this comes out January
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, and we've been bringing back a lot
Speaker 3: of classics around resolutions or just maybe things you might
Speaker 3: want to change in the new year. And one of
Speaker 3: them that came to mind for me, not that I
Speaker 3: have anything going on around this, but was how to
Speaker 3: break up with the friends?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, because I think a.
Speaker 3: Lot of times towards the end of the year, you
Speaker 3: take stock of that in the beginning of the year
Speaker 3: and what relationships are good for you and healthy for you.
Speaker 3: And sometimes that can mean I'm making the decision to
Speaker 3: either cut back on your hanging out with someone or
Speaker 3: to cut it off completely, and that can be a
Speaker 3: really hard, hard thing. But I do around this time,
Speaker 3: I think I've heard friends of mine talking about it
Speaker 3: and really wrestling with well, I don't know, maybe I
Speaker 3: don't maybe we're not actually friends, Like maybe this isn't
Speaker 3: a friendship at all. So for anyone who is dealing
Speaker 3: with that, wrestling with that, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,
Speaker 3: this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph. I've
Speaker 3: never told your production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4: Oh Annie, I have a question for you. Okay, can
Speaker 4: you tell me a time in your childhood you had
Speaker 4: a friendship ending moment?
Speaker 3: So the one that comes immediately to mind actually wasn't
Speaker 3: a friendship ending moment for me, but one of my
Speaker 3: best friends who's been on the show. Now, Katie, and
Speaker 3: I have two best friends Katie, so that's very confusing.
Speaker 3: But recently. Katie we grew up together. We were neighbors
Speaker 3: and I loved hanging out with her.
Speaker 1: She was friends with another Katie, my goodness.
Speaker 3: Katie Jones, who was like a cool kid, and I
Speaker 3: was very much not a cool kid at this point.
Speaker 3: This was like third grade. I was cool up until
Speaker 3: third grade, but then things changed. But they were both
Speaker 3: at my house because Katie had come to visit my
Speaker 3: friend Katie, and my friend Katie wanted to come hang
Speaker 3: out with me. And I'm sorry this is so confusing,
Speaker 3: but we were playing like that game of hop scotch
Speaker 3: where you it's like a snail. I don't know if
Speaker 3: anybody remembers that, but we loved playing it, and Katie
Speaker 3: Jones reached her boiling point and said to my friend Katie, like,
Speaker 3: I don't like this girl, Annie. You choose right here now,
Speaker 3: which one of us is it gonna because I will
Speaker 3: walk out of here right now, won't be friends anymore.
Speaker 1: And I was kind of shocked because I didn't know
Speaker 1: where this code.
Speaker 2: Had come from.
Speaker 3: But my friend Katie, she just continued to play the
Speaker 3: game in silence, didn't say anything, and Katie Jones walked
Speaker 3: away by herself.
Speaker 1: And history was made.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, it was pretty dramatic.
Speaker 4: That is dramatic. I've never had a full fledged declaration. Yeah,
Speaker 4: in giving you an ultimatum, wow, especially middle school.
Speaker 1: That it was elementary school.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And uh yeah.
Speaker 3: They were not friends again after that, and things were
Speaker 3: always awkward between me and Katie Jones. And we both
Speaker 3: played clarinet and band. It was a little tense.
Speaker 2: I love it. You gotta love to have competition, That's
Speaker 2: what that is, right.
Speaker 1: I was second chair, she was third.
Speaker 2: Oh nice, when you would I did?
Speaker 1: I did?
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I think I've had I had a few incidents.
Speaker 4: I know I had one friend who was so bossy
Speaker 4: that I Finally, I remember being on a swing set.
Speaker 4: I just looked at her and yelled at her, stopped
Speaker 4: telling me what to do, and walked off, and we
Speaker 4: were never friends after that. It was weird because it
Speaker 4: was more of like she was trying to get me
Speaker 4: to talk.
Speaker 2: To a boy and I didn't like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that was kind of the end of the
Speaker 4: friendship because I was like, I don't want to talk
Speaker 4: to even though I'm pretty sure I would say annoying
Speaker 4: one as a kid, But that's the one I can
Speaker 4: remember more so than anything else.
Speaker 2: And a lot of my friendships.
Speaker 4: Didn't end because anything bad, but a lot of them
Speaker 4: ended because they moved away or circumstances happened where we.
Speaker 2: Changed an interest. But it was never like, oh, we
Speaker 2: can't be friends that you think of.
Speaker 1: I did have my other next door neighbor, Jordan.
Speaker 3: She was a bit younger than me, and I kind
Speaker 3: of resented her after a while because it was those
Speaker 3: situation where we always carpolled together.
Speaker 1: We did our mom's were friends.
Speaker 3: And so it was just like convenience, and she spent
Speaker 3: so much time at my house and we babysit her family,
Speaker 3: and I really didn't like her brothers. I felt like
Speaker 3: they were mean to my brother and they took advantage
Speaker 3: of all of our stuff, Like we would be not
Speaker 3: at home and we would come home and they were
Speaker 3: like using all of our stuff and it bothered me. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I was I think looking back, I was kind
Speaker 3: of controlling, but she was also kind of mean.
Speaker 1: See, and I overheard her.
Speaker 3: Talking about me on several occasions, and eventually I was like,
Speaker 3: I don't think we're friends anymore. You know.
Speaker 2: I had that too.
Speaker 4: I had a friend that I was friends with her
Speaker 4: for three or four years, but it was definitely one
Speaker 4: of those friendships that I was.
Speaker 2: Her psychic, if you know what I mean. Like she
Speaker 2: would do.
Speaker 4: All these things so I would have to hang out
Speaker 4: with her to so she could hang out with this boy.
Speaker 4: I would have to do this with her that she
Speaker 4: would love. I didn't want to do, but I'm like, okay,
Speaker 4: I'm here. And I remember her trying to get validation
Speaker 4: and want to flirt with boys and that was fine.
Speaker 4: That was just not something I want to do. And
Speaker 4: I was very scared of boys at this point in time.
Speaker 4: And I remember her making fun of me for that,
Speaker 4: and I was like, look, just because you like being
Speaker 4: with all the guys doesn't mean I want to. She
Speaker 4: took that as me calling her a slut and told
Speaker 4: her friends that I called her a slut, and so
Speaker 4: like they completely heard that, and then I was judgmental
Speaker 4: and I could hear them talking about me, and they
Speaker 4: would gang up on me on the bus said by myself.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was one of those stories.
Speaker 4: We kept kind of in touch for the most part,
Speaker 4: but we definitely because we were also different grades and
Speaker 4: all of that, so that changed.
Speaker 2: She got a car, I didn't get a car. I
Speaker 2: had to work. She didn't have to work, so it
Speaker 2: was all nice for her. But yeah, it was really
Speaker 2: weird friendship.
Speaker 4: I remember trying to figure out how like a man,
Speaker 4: I was like, this is a bad teenage.
Speaker 1: Movie, right right.
Speaker 2: But yes, we've discussed.
Speaker 4: I'm sure everybody's wondering while we're talking about this, and
Speaker 4: we've discussed before the power of female friendship and the
Speaker 4: power of platonic female connection, and honestly, it's something that's
Speaker 4: been a comfort and a lot of big, big help.
Speaker 2: In this last year.
Speaker 4: Friendship is, by the way, defined by Mariam Webster as
Speaker 4: the state of being friends or the quality or state
Speaker 4: of being friendly, which I feel like that's not strong.
Speaker 2: Enough of definition to me because I'm like friendship is
Speaker 2: so powerful.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's right.
Speaker 3: It's almost like the acquaintance. Yes, I feel like there's
Speaker 3: a bunch of levels of friends. You know, you've got
Speaker 3: your inner circle friends, and then you've got kind of
Speaker 3: your acquaintance friends, right, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do.
Speaker 4: That's like the best friend title. Who's the best friend?
Speaker 4: Who's your crew?
Speaker 2: Definitely a lot of title to that. And if you've
Speaker 2: been a.
Speaker 4: Listener of the show, I think you probably already know.
Speaker 4: We are all about women supporting women, and about how
Speaker 4: important it is to maintain friendships with other women. As
Speaker 4: in fact, I've always been one of those who go
Speaker 4: by the Leslie Nope motto of uterresses before duterises.
Speaker 2: I mean that for anyone with a uterus.
Speaker 4: And of course, one of my I think one of
Speaker 4: my better qualities I don't know, is that I am
Speaker 4: ridiculously loyal and I'm definitely one of those that you
Speaker 4: just can't mess with my people. If you do, I'm
Speaker 4: coming to get you real hard.
Speaker 1: I would agree. I think you're very loyal. I think
Speaker 1: you're a wonderful friend.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I one of.
Speaker 3: The most fortunate areas I think in my life is
Speaker 3: that I had really good and strong friendships with other
Speaker 3: girls and women pretty much my entire life. And some
Speaker 3: of those, you know, did fade away or turned out
Speaker 3: to not work out for whatever reason. But I had
Speaker 3: a core group of friends from high school and I'm
Speaker 3: still really good friends with and we still see each other.
Speaker 3: And then I have people from college, and then i
Speaker 3: have people from work and like outside circles, and I
Speaker 3: just think it's so whenever I'm thinking of.
Speaker 1: Difficult situations and how do you get through.
Speaker 3: It or what do you enjoy in life, it's almost
Speaker 3: always like, oh, I have the support of my friends.
Speaker 1: I have the support of this group of friends.
Speaker 3: They're there for me, and they bring so much joy
Speaker 3: and all so much support as well. And I know
Speaker 3: people in my life who I'm close to who don't
Speaker 3: have that, who don't have a strong support group of friends,
Speaker 3: and I've just seen how lucky I am to have it,
Speaker 3: like how difficult it can be without it.
Speaker 1: So I am very much with you, Samantha.
Speaker 3: I'm a huge proponent of friendships and especially among women,
Speaker 3: And though we could continue to yes, sing the praises
Speaker 3: of female friendship. We aren't talking about that necessarily today.
Speaker 1: No, today we wanted to.
Speaker 3: Take a look at the end of friendships and specifically
Speaker 3: what happens when women stop being friends with other women.
Speaker 1: And we need to go ahead and let you know.
Speaker 1: I know that many of the.
Speaker 3: Articles about that are heavily weighed down with a lot
Speaker 3: of misogynistic language, a lot of stereotypical ideas of female
Speaker 3: friends i e. Caddy, backstabbing, drama queen, and characteristics like that.
Speaker 3: So though we may mention it, please take that with
Speaker 3: a grain of salt.
Speaker 4: Right, So, there are several reasons why a friendship will end.
Speaker 4: We talked a little bit about it before in our
Speaker 4: own personal experiences, and I'm sure we've all dealt with
Speaker 4: it for some reason, but we wanted to look at
Speaker 4: why and even when maybe we should go ahead and
Speaker 4: just let it end.
Speaker 1: Yes, And one of those things.
Speaker 3: I've never heard of this before, but when I heard
Speaker 3: the term, I was immediately like, oh, yeah, I know
Speaker 3: what this is, and that's friendship fade. Yeah. So there
Speaker 3: have been different reasons in ways to end a friendship,
Speaker 3: and one of them is this one, which has been
Speaker 3: more of a thing since the pandemic and lockdowns. I've
Speaker 3: definitely heard people talk about it, like, you know who
Speaker 3: your real friends are are, like the sticking friends I
Speaker 3: feel like for me though, my experience has been there
Speaker 3: so that I have faded, but I'm confident they're going
Speaker 3: to come back right. Like we're just not hanging out
Speaker 3: that much right now, and there's a lot of stress.
Speaker 1: But I feel like if that eases.
Speaker 4: We will hang out right And then just because it
Speaker 4: happens doesn't mean it happens because it's something bad or
Speaker 4: because you mean like you're being mean about it. It's
Speaker 4: not always intended as negative.
Speaker 2: I don't like you thing.
Speaker 3: Right exactly, But okay, what exactly is friendship fade? According
Speaker 3: to a Woman's Health article, friendship faid is the quote
Speaker 3: feeling that your formally tight connections are disappearing at down
Speaker 3: a pit of silence, just not gloomy at all. Of
Speaker 3: silence sounds like a Dungeons and Dragon spell.
Speaker 2: There you go, I silence.
Speaker 3: But this is a bit different from the friendly fade,
Speaker 3: which the Urban Dictionary defines as quote a passive aggressive
Speaker 3: method to break up with a friend without being hurtful
Speaker 3: or ghosting a friendship and we will come back to.
Speaker 2: That, right.
Speaker 4: So, not surprisingly, the pandemic has opened up the possibility
Speaker 4: of this happening, and there could be so many reasons
Speaker 4: outside of just being overwhelmed and panicked about the state
Speaker 4: of the world, and for me specifically, one of the
Speaker 4: reasons of the faith is due to the fact like
Speaker 4: there's nothing new or really meaningful that's happening right now.
Speaker 4: So I feel like when people ask me how are you,
Speaker 4: I really have nothing to say other than eh, yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah.
Speaker 4: My daily routine has come to the point that it
Speaker 4: has become monotonous. Wake up, take out the dog, work, eat,
Speaker 4: watch the same shows over and over again, and go
Speaker 4: to bed again.
Speaker 2: When someone asks what I've been doing? Is there anything
Speaker 2: new going on with you? Literally, I'm like no.
Speaker 3: My mom is the same, which is funny because as
Speaker 3: the child, I feel like I'm the one always kind
Speaker 3: of I don't do this anymore, but when I was younger,
Speaker 3: I would dodge phone calls and stuff, and now I
Speaker 3: get the feelings she's dodging by. And she told me
Speaker 3: she's like, well, you know, I'm just not doing much.
Speaker 3: I don't have much to talk about right, Yeah, that
Speaker 3: makes sense, nor do I. And that's definitely something I've noticed,
Speaker 3: especially in conversations with her, because it used to be
Speaker 3: kind of I would come in and I'd be like.
Speaker 1: Here's the fifteen thousand new things.
Speaker 3: That have happened, and now it's sort of like, oh,
Speaker 3: my shashido plant has red shasheetos on it. Now she
Speaker 3: is exciting by the way, and especially in regards to
Speaker 3: lockdowns and rules, people have been divided on how to
Speaker 3: the letter, people may be following those rules and for
Speaker 3: some that changed the way.
Speaker 1: You vowed that friendship.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean sure, yes, I think we even had
Speaker 4: so we just finally are getting to the point of
Speaker 4: going out. We hung out with your co host from Saber, Lauren,
Speaker 4: and she was talking about, you know, what she did
Speaker 4: during the pandemic, and she made stay but of course
Speaker 4: I think you and Annie had a little more stricter
Speaker 4: lockdown follows and and we were like, yeah, and apparently
Speaker 4: people have been going out and I'm like, oh, oh wow,
Speaker 4: I didn't know that. And definitely when making plans it
Speaker 4: was me, you my partner, that was it. And if
Speaker 4: I wanted to make plans with someone, we made sure
Speaker 4: that we had a two week quarantine check up. If
Speaker 4: we need to make sure that the other person had
Speaker 4: tested and let each other know what's going on, and
Speaker 4: then we wouldn't hang out. Apparently not everyone's doing that,
Speaker 4: and I think we had. Did we have a conversation, Yeah,
Speaker 4: we had a conversation about the fact that we wanted
Speaker 4: to invite certain people, but we were thinking, I don't
Speaker 4: know if they're actually following the quarantine rules.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been really tough for me and I imagine
Speaker 3: for a lot of people because it's not a shocking
Speaker 3: thing to hear, Like I'm not I knew people were
Speaker 3: doing that, but so I do get hurt by it
Speaker 3: and I get a little mad about it. And honestly,
Speaker 3: after we learned that when we were hanging out that time,
Speaker 3: I went home and got really upset. Oh no, and
Speaker 3: it's I had to think about why it was upsetting
Speaker 3: me so much, and there's obviously something else going on there.
Speaker 1: But it is.
Speaker 3: It's an issue, and it's an issue where it's hard
Speaker 3: not to have some sort of emotion one way or
Speaker 3: the other where there's there's particularly in my case, I'm
Speaker 3: thinking of one guy.
Speaker 1: Who I know when I meet when we hang out.
Speaker 3: It's going to become a point where he's going to
Speaker 3: be like, I don't get why you were taking it
Speaker 3: so seriously, and it's going to be hard for me
Speaker 3: not to fight with this guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I could see that.
Speaker 4: I mean definitely for me, a part of that whole,
Speaker 4: like people getting together, was I felt left out. And
Speaker 4: this is a fear of mine of being left out
Speaker 4: and unwanted. And even though it absolutely was my role
Speaker 4: and my choice, but hearing about the after fact, because
Speaker 4: they knew where I stood.
Speaker 2: And so therefore, of course I'm not gonna invite you
Speaker 2: wouldn't have come.
Speaker 1: Very true, very true.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm still hard by it. I'm still hard by it.
Speaker 1: No, isn't that the kicker though? Where Yes, it's like.
Speaker 3: You know that you would have said no, but you
Speaker 3: want to be asked anywhere exactly.
Speaker 2: I've said that to a group of friends previously.
Speaker 4: I was like, I know I'm not coming, and i
Speaker 4: know I'm having a hard time responding to things, but
Speaker 4: please don't leave me out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I'm absolutely the same.
Speaker 3: I think I'm glad I didn't know about this because
Speaker 3: I would have been made Oh yeah, but in general,
Speaker 3: I do like sometimes I just say yes because I'm
Speaker 3: afraid they'll stop asking me to go out, right, But yeah,
Speaker 3: that's definitely been the new waters to navigate when it
Speaker 3: comes to friendships and ideas around quarantining and this whole pandemic,
Speaker 3: because it's also it goes back to almost that awkward
Speaker 3: the joke of the awkward conversations you have with people
Speaker 3: now where it's like, oh, what vaccine did you get? Oh? Right, right,
Speaker 3: So it's kind of inevitably going to come up probably,
Speaker 3: so it's just hard to avoid and it is people
Speaker 3: have emotions and thoughts about.
Speaker 2: It, they do, mm hmm.
Speaker 3: And then there's also for women who have children and families,
Speaker 3: perhaps just finding the time or energy to keep up
Speaker 3: a friendship was too much.
Speaker 1: Can totally see that.
Speaker 3: Right, sounds exhausting, oh for sure, for sure, and many
Speaker 3: have suffered loss or tragedy, and that type of experience
Speaker 3: can completely flip a person's desire to socialize or even
Speaker 3: feel like they can reach out to someone. And yeah,
Speaker 3: that's that's another thing that I struggle with in friendships,
Speaker 3: is being if I feel like I have something sad
Speaker 3: or I guess just not even fun to talk about.
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I can talk about it because
Speaker 3: I feel like they're going to be like, oh, this
Speaker 3: is awkward, and I don't want to be here right now.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be talking about this right But
Speaker 3: that's what friendship is, as you're being open with people
Speaker 3: and all of that, but especially when you think someone
Speaker 3: else is struggling too, you don't want to add to
Speaker 3: their struggles.
Speaker 1: It has been a time of struggling.
Speaker 4: And which we're going to talk about in the bit.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I feel the same way, especially when I
Speaker 4: had my previous jobs.
Speaker 2: They were Debbie Downer jobs. To say the least.
Speaker 4: I came in as d Debbie Downer of the group
Speaker 4: because if they asked me how my day went, Oh,
Speaker 4: you don't want to ask me how my day went.
Speaker 4: You know, tragedies and the sadness that happened in my field,
Speaker 4: the many losses that I had over the winds, and
Speaker 4: even my wins were sad. I remember I was trying
Speaker 4: to explain to friends about something that was good, but
Speaker 4: in what that sounded like. But it's still a child
Speaker 4: that didn't have a parent and was going through loss.
Speaker 4: How is this good type of situation? And being told
Speaker 4: to stop talking. That's so like it. I actually was
Speaker 4: shut down saying, really, you're going to talk about this now,
Speaker 4: And I'm like, someone.
Speaker 2: Just asked me how my day went, and this is
Speaker 2: how my day went, and it.
Speaker 4: Was a victory for me, even though to you it
Speaker 4: sounds really sad because you don't want to talk about
Speaker 4: children with loss, and I'm like, sorry, but yeah, that
Speaker 4: taught me real quick. Oh, I can't talk to you,
Speaker 4: I can't be with you, I can't let you know
Speaker 4: what's going on because you don't want sad things.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, with my job, that's the majority of my stories.
Speaker 1: Right, that was a very dramatical loo key out of
Speaker 1: your face.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, well, we do have some more we
Speaker 3: want to discuss, but first we have a quick break
Speaker 3: for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Sponsored.
Speaker 4: What do you do if you have allowed the fade
Speaker 4: to occur? I'm very very guilty of this, but want
Speaker 4: to snap back.
Speaker 2: It's time.
Speaker 4: It's time we come back, right, maybe, I think again,
Speaker 4: we've all been there. We get busy, overwhelmed, or just
Speaker 4: don't have the mental capacity to call someone or even text.
Speaker 4: But that's not because we don't want to. That's not
Speaker 4: because we're trying to stop a friendship or fade a friendship.
Speaker 4: It just happens. Life happens, So what can we do
Speaker 4: to change that?
Speaker 3: Well, first and foremost, be gentle with yourself and with
Speaker 3: your friends. It might have been a few days or
Speaker 3: weeks ever since you've heard from your people, But just
Speaker 3: like us, they are going through the hardships of the
Speaker 3: currency of the world. But what if they are going
Speaker 3: through other things as well?
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 4: And I don't know how many times I've been depressed
Speaker 4: or completely exhausted, and I'm thinking, why aren't people checking
Speaker 4: up on me? Why can't they read my mind? I
Speaker 4: know I need them to check it up on me.
Speaker 4: But then to realize maybe they're feeling the exact same thing,
Speaker 4: or maybe they're going through something even harder, like those
Speaker 4: moments of feeling like you're being neglected, you're also neglecting others.
Speaker 4: You never know what's happening.
Speaker 2: And just as simple.
Speaker 4: Hello, And usually for me that's a gift of like, hey,
Speaker 4: you know, I think my favorite one is the there's
Speaker 4: a seal that runs up and does a wave. Okay, no, hello,
Speaker 4: I love it, and that can change things that could
Speaker 4: just be as simple I'm here, I'm check it up
Speaker 4: without having to be too invasive, and it doesn't take
Speaker 4: that much time because again, we never know to maybe
Speaker 4: in the same place, and that miscommunication of who's going
Speaker 4: to be the one that reaches out, yeah, causes.
Speaker 2: A kind of friction.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I had a friend who we actually sat down and
Speaker 3: talked about this because she was fundamentally misunderstanding and I
Speaker 3: was fundamentally misunderstanding where both of us were coming from
Speaker 3: because I was struggling with insecurity and I still do
Speaker 3: where I don't want to be annoying or bother people, right,
Speaker 3: So sometimes that means I won't reach out because I
Speaker 3: don't want to bother people. But to her that was
Speaker 3: reading as she's not reaching out, right, So there's that,
Speaker 3: and then I do. I very vividly remember in college
Speaker 3: having the realization of even people who look like they're
Speaker 3: so put together in quotes and everything's fine, Yeah, you
Speaker 3: don't know what they're dealing with.
Speaker 1: You really don't unless you check or ask, right.
Speaker 3: I used to have I don't necessarily think this was
Speaker 3: a super healthy thing either, but I used to have
Speaker 3: what I called the list of don't neglect, and I
Speaker 3: would have people it was just this list.
Speaker 1: I'm like, check in on these people.
Speaker 3: And I would go through the list, you know, every
Speaker 3: couple of days, just to make sure.
Speaker 2: Keep in mind on that list.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't do it anymore. This was in.
Speaker 3: This was like when I first graduated college, and I
Speaker 3: mean it was such a like anything to do where
Speaker 3: I took something that should be fun and it became
Speaker 3: much more of like a to do list and a stress.
Speaker 1: So I stopped doing it.
Speaker 3: But smart, Yeah, but yeah, I have those people in mind,
Speaker 3: and it doesn't have to be big, like you said,
Speaker 3: it can just be you know, hey, I saw this
Speaker 3: and thought of you. And if they don't respond, that's cool.
Speaker 3: They'll respond when they can, hopefully. And yeah, it's a
Speaker 3: simple a simple hello. It can work whether it's through
Speaker 3: a text, a phone call, Marco Polo, whatever way you know,
Speaker 3: whatever way you typically communicate with your friend, or sometimes
Speaker 3: it's fun to mix it up. Just a simple connection
Speaker 3: can really do wonders. And yeah, I remember, your friendship
Speaker 3: is the ability to just be yourself with someone.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: One thing my friends and I would always laugh about
Speaker 4: because I don't know there's an inside joke about just
Speaker 4: the fact that I'm always sleepy.
Speaker 2: I'm always sleepy, I just am. And you know this,
Speaker 2: that we can.
Speaker 4: Just be around each other and take a nap, and
Speaker 4: that's true friendship. Like we would say, two friends nap together,
Speaker 4: and I thought it was hilarious. But the overall ability
Speaker 4: is that we can just be there without having to
Speaker 4: entertain one another. And that was okay, that's fine. We
Speaker 4: can do our own thing, but just be in each
Speaker 4: other's space.
Speaker 2: That's nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I had my other friend Katie.
Speaker 3: We had a standing nap time on Fridays at three pm.
Speaker 1: We would take naps together.
Speaker 4: And guy, look, when you get to the point where
Speaker 4: you're super busy but you're trying to neglect your friendship,
Speaker 4: you come together and you realize, oh my gosh, I'm
Speaker 4: so tired, and the other person's like, yeah, me too.
Speaker 4: I'm like, you know what, let's just close their eyes.
Speaker 4: There's fifteen minute breaks, how about. Yeah, there's something delightful
Speaker 4: to that.
Speaker 3: It is because you're trusting someone with your kind of
Speaker 3: like vulnerable, sleepy, not real interesting self at the moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love and you're you're one of these transmitted.
Speaker 3: But I love when you have a friendship where you
Speaker 3: can kind of do your own thing. Like somebody will
Speaker 3: be working on like one friend she sketches a lot
Speaker 3: when we hang out while I'm like working on Dungeons
Speaker 3: and No Dragons or fan fiction.
Speaker 1: And we're together and we'll occasionally talk to each other.
Speaker 3: It could be really short and easy going, but it's
Speaker 3: not like we're doing something very exciting. It's kind of
Speaker 3: separate but together. But there is, yeah, that camaraderie.
Speaker 2: There there is. I think there's something nice to that.
Speaker 4: Yes, And then also you can be thoughtful and romantic
Speaker 4: with your friends and and you're really great at this.
Speaker 4: And when I say that, giving small gifts or large
Speaker 4: ones sometimes for no reason just to say I'm thinking
Speaker 4: about you. I saw this and thought about you is
Speaker 4: really really nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and thank you for saying that you are too.
Speaker 3: I do. It sounds really cheesy, but I get these
Speaker 3: moments of just like such pure warm love for friends,
Speaker 3: or like I've got to do something for this person, right,
Speaker 3: and it just gets in my head and I'll do
Speaker 3: I'll send like a silly video or y'all, I'll get
Speaker 3: a gift. But I just get like overwhelmed with love
Speaker 3: for someone and I want to do something. And there
Speaker 3: have been so many different occasions when someone has just
Speaker 3: needed to talk or feel loved, and giving small tokens
Speaker 3: or small gifts is such an amazing thing to do
Speaker 3: to show that thoughtfulness goes a long way. And I mean,
Speaker 3: it's wonderful to get gifts when you but it's also
Speaker 3: lovely to get something when you're not. It doesn't have
Speaker 3: to be even a gift, like like I said, I
Speaker 3: used to do. I used to do a lot of
Speaker 3: funny videos or something.
Speaker 4: Right, Yes, you definitely did one for me. I did,
Speaker 4: and you know what, because of we were using the
Speaker 4: word romantic. This is also one of those that are
Speaker 4: usually typically done by women. You don't see many male
Speaker 4: friends giving each other things.
Speaker 2: I know. That was a whole shtick and New Girl.
Speaker 4: In which Schmidt gives his friend Nick a cookie and
Speaker 4: he just and Nick is very suspicious.
Speaker 2: He's like, why why are you giving me this cookie?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 4: It was a whole episode based on the fact that
Speaker 4: their thoughtfulness and he's like, men don't give each other gifts.
Speaker 2: Men don't do these things.
Speaker 4: And it's typically correct that I've only seen men give
Speaker 4: the romantic partners a gift, but to give to each
Speaker 4: other it seems so unugal, right, that makes me said
Speaker 4: that they're messing out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it can be such a lovely, lovely thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is.
Speaker 4: But maybe you're good without that particular friendship anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then that's okay. That's okay too.
Speaker 4: Maybe that friendship wasn't what you really needed, or maybe
Speaker 4: it's no longer what you need, or some of those
Speaker 4: differences that we talked about are too big and it
Speaker 4: causes conflict and it maybe it's not a balanced friendship
Speaker 4: to begin with.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about that.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, So when is a friendship unhealthy? We wanted
Speaker 3: to look into when a friendship is not an actual friendship.
Speaker 3: So yes, let's start with toxic friendships. Toxic friendship is
Speaker 3: something that causes a negative impact on your life. They
Speaker 3: never give support or compassion in your life. They are
Speaker 3: typically draining, unrewarding, stifling, unsatisfying, and unequal and again from
Speaker 3: Urban Dictionary, these so called friends often backstab, gossip, lie,
Speaker 3: act selfish, use, belittle, and even manipulate, and are taking
Speaker 3: more than giving back to the friendship. Sadness and resentment
Speaker 3: is felt towards the toxic friends. Breaking away from these
Speaker 3: toxic friends is a must. And you probably all heard
Speaker 3: terms like emotional vampire or energy vampire as well, which
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily have to be a friend, but often goes
Speaker 3: into this whole thing.
Speaker 4: Right, So we did want to talk about some of
Speaker 4: the warning signs, and they're a lot more out there.
Speaker 4: There are a lot more articles that you can look
Speaker 4: at that give you specific maybe actions that are taking place.
Speaker 4: But we just to do a few of those warning signs,
Speaker 4: and one of them.
Speaker 2: Is that they always put you down.
Speaker 4: So of course I'm not necessarily talking about every once
Speaker 4: in a while just a friendly jab where you tease
Speaker 4: each other and move on.
Speaker 2: Which I think I've done to you.
Speaker 4: Yes, But if it's something that's not only causes you
Speaker 4: to feel bad about yourself, or something that causes your embarrassment,
Speaker 4: maybe you should rethink this friendship and.
Speaker 2: What it's about.
Speaker 4: An example that I think of on the top of
Speaker 4: my head is the Mean Girls movie where poor Gretchen
Speaker 4: just constantly gets yelled at by Regina and put down
Speaker 4: constantly about being told that her ideas are and everything
Speaker 4: she's doing is not as good as her that would
Speaker 4: be one of those put down not good friendships right.
Speaker 3: Another sign is crossing boundaries. Do they make you uncomfortable?
Speaker 3: Do they keep pushing you to do things you don't
Speaker 3: want to do, or they don't listen when you let
Speaker 3: them know you don't like something or don't want to
Speaker 3: be a part of something.
Speaker 1: That is a sign. Another one is takers.
Speaker 3: Those friends who use you for what you have, constantly
Speaker 3: coming to complain and need advice, but their chicken on
Speaker 3: you are see how you are doing.
Speaker 4: Right, And then there's a non supporter. We all have dreams,
Speaker 4: of course and goals and we definitely need help sometimes,
Speaker 4: whether it's someone who would call just to see how
Speaker 4: you're doing that day or how are you doing with things,
Speaker 4: or those who just show up for you for moral support.
Speaker 4: But if someone is not doing this but you're constantly
Speaker 4: doing that for them, that's not someone you want to
Speaker 4: be around. That's not someone who is a good friend,
Speaker 4: someone who if you're trying to do something new me
Speaker 4: I was trying to knit, you're very supportive and I
Speaker 4: really appreciate that as where those non supportive would probably
Speaker 4: go ahead and talk down on you and ask you
Speaker 4: why you're doing it.
Speaker 2: And you're going to fail. Those are people you don't
Speaker 2: want to be around.
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, And when you get older and you look
Speaker 3: back on how behaviors you had when you were younger,
Speaker 3: there were some like I've really been working on, where
Speaker 3: I would.
Speaker 1: Get jealous of friends.
Speaker 3: I would get jealous if I thought like they were,
Speaker 3: you know, having a better life or whatever, being cooler,
Speaker 3: And it was really hard for me to not like
Speaker 3: say something kind of snarky to work about it, or
Speaker 3: something kind of a put down. And that's been something
Speaker 3: I've recognized and I've like actively tried to work on
Speaker 3: as I've gotten older. And that's something to keep in
Speaker 3: mind too, is to look for those things in yourself,
Speaker 3: and especially if you have a friend who says something
Speaker 3: about it, you should examine that thing, right.
Speaker 1: And I have an.
Speaker 3: Instance of two friends in my life who were both
Speaker 3: my best friends, and they had a huge fight in
Speaker 3: college and they have not made up.
Speaker 1: One of them wants to and the other one doesn't.
Speaker 3: But it's also complicated because they're both my friends, and
Speaker 3: I've heard both of their sides of it, and I
Speaker 3: get both of their sides of it, and you know,
Speaker 3: you can't force someone if they're not ready to be
Speaker 3: your friend again, then that's that's that.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sucks, but yeah, would I would just also
Speaker 3: keep in mind your own behaviors and friendships as well, exactly.
Speaker 1: M hmm.
Speaker 3: There's also something called co rumination. Co Rumination is defined
Speaker 3: as quote extensive and frequent discussion, speculation, and focus on
Speaker 3: negative feelings related to personal problems with close friends or friends.
Speaker 3: That's from the National Institute of Health. It usually involves
Speaker 3: the constant discussion and rehashing of the same problems and
Speaker 3: often includes focusing on quote causes, implications, and negative feelings
Speaker 3: around that problem. So think of when you were going
Speaker 3: through a bad breakup and you went to your closest
Speaker 3: friends to talk about all the whise what went wrongs
Speaker 3: and how things could have changed.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, this is actually we need to watch this.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about a Sex in the City episode where
Speaker 4: specifically Carrie cannot stop talking about Big at that point
Speaker 4: they'd broken up for the second time, and she goes
Speaker 4: on and on and on and on to the point
Speaker 4: that her three friends intervene and say, Okay, this is
Speaker 4: a big, big intervention because you know he was called
Speaker 4: Big because we cannot deal with this, that we cannot
Speaker 4: keep talking about all the negatives you're bringing everyone down,
Speaker 4: and not that we don't want to talk about it,
Speaker 4: but we've given you the weak, long allowance of doing so,
Speaker 4: and you keep repeating the same thing and it's becoming
Speaker 4: really negative for you as well as for us. And
Speaker 4: they were like, you need a therapist, and apparently they're like,
Speaker 4: you know, we have the same.
Speaker 2: Issues too, and we don't know what to do.
Speaker 4: This is why we have therapists, because we need someone
Speaker 4: else to give us an unbiased opinion instead of yeah,
Speaker 4: that dude's a dick, which that dude was a dick.
Speaker 2: Anyway, just go to there.
Speaker 4: But yeah, So, of course talking with our friends and
Speaker 4: really letting go when working through things isn't a bad thing,
Speaker 4: as in fact, one of the things I cherish most
Speaker 4: is being able to completely be honest about all my
Speaker 4: hurts and insecurities and having friends comfort me or shake
Speaker 4: me out of it, like I really need that reality check.
Speaker 4: So co ruminating can be a function of bonding for
Speaker 4: many friends and can in the long run benefit in
Speaker 4: a higher relationship satisfaction. And this is according to a
Speaker 4: study completed by the Oklahoma State University. Not only that,
Speaker 4: but the quality of the relationship and social support are
Speaker 4: also higher for those who co ruminate. So not all
Speaker 4: bad thing. And apparently this is only typically seen in
Speaker 4: friendships with women. So men don't co ruminate, according to
Speaker 4: the statistic, with their male friends. It's not something that
Speaker 4: they do. They don't sit and empathize with each other,
Speaker 4: which we kind of talked about a little before, but
Speaker 4: they specifically said.
Speaker 2: This is not a thing that happens with men.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, yeah. However, there is some bad.
Speaker 3: It's not all good because co ruminating is essentially sharing
Speaker 3: and feeling each other's stress and anxiety, and it can
Speaker 3: become a negative cycle and once you feed off each
Speaker 3: other's stressors, causing a higher stress synchronicity that can also
Speaker 3: trigger other mental health issues like depression. Psychologists Amanda Rose
Speaker 3: found when women co ruminate, they were quote more susceptible
Speaker 3: to emotional disorders. And with that, if your friendship is
Speaker 3: based on shared pain or bad experiences, there's a danger
Speaker 3: that you quote might start manufacturing that pain to keep
Speaker 3: the relationship going, and doing so can lead to a
Speaker 3: quote elevated risk of depression and anxiety. If these friendships
Speaker 3: are dependent on only the bad and painful things in
Speaker 3: the relationship, perhaps it's time to reflect on if that
Speaker 3: relationship is healthy.
Speaker 4: And there are examples specifically through people who were talking
Speaker 4: about they actually really thrived on when their friends were
Speaker 4: going through bad things and were excited by that and
Speaker 4: was wanting to be the go person. And you know,
Speaker 4: the co ruminating part is a little too real for
Speaker 4: me feel I felt other attacked reading this. I'm not
Speaker 4: gonna lie because I want to be a go to
Speaker 4: person for people.
Speaker 2: That's kind of the thing. I think that's part of.
Speaker 4: My whole caregiver mentality that I really want to be
Speaker 4: there for you, and so knowing that you trust me
Speaker 4: enough to come to me in these dark times, yeah,
Speaker 4: feels so rewarding that it's like, yeah, it kind of
Speaker 4: does feed into I know I'm needed, and therefore I'm
Speaker 4: going to keep being needed by being this person.
Speaker 2: And maybe if you have these traumas then.
Speaker 4: This is good for me, right, but it is it's
Speaker 4: really unhealthy when you take on too much. I remember
Speaker 4: there was one point where two of my closest friends
Speaker 4: were going through really really hard things and I was
Speaker 4: crying and upset about it later on to the point
Speaker 4: that I realized that I was in pain because they
Speaker 4: were in such pain that I felt like I couldn't
Speaker 4: be happy. Right, it was a weird thing, and they
Speaker 4: weren't doing that on purpose. And please understand, these two
Speaker 4: friends are the best friends that I've had, and I
Speaker 4: could do the same with them, and I have done
Speaker 4: the same with them, but because of what was happening
Speaker 4: that it was so intense, because it just felt like
Speaker 4: every body was falling apart, that I didn't have the
Speaker 4: right to be okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and whereas I like, on the other hand, I'm
Speaker 3: someone who struggles with like everything has to be even,
Speaker 3: and so I've already and this is such a terrible thing,
Speaker 3: but I've already been like, here are the people who
Speaker 3: were really there for me when my dad died, so
Speaker 3: when their parents died, to really be there, which is awful,
Speaker 3: Like I want to be there for them, but it's
Speaker 3: just one of those things where it's like, already stressing
Speaker 3: me out right, that happened.
Speaker 2: Yet you're like, who do I owe?
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, And again, that's not what friendship is. That's
Speaker 3: what it's about. You should try to be as like
Speaker 3: equal as possible in giving and receiving. But it's not
Speaker 3: like a book, right, It's not like a debt sheet
Speaker 3: that you need to keep track of. I mean, you
Speaker 3: should keep in mind if one person is doing a
Speaker 3: lot more than the other, But in general it evens
Speaker 3: out right.
Speaker 4: Right, you know, a true friendship you do for each
Speaker 4: other without thinking about that because it's automatic. It's easy
Speaker 4: from both them so for sure. And you know, I
Speaker 4: never really knew the term co ruminating, so.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, oh, that's what that is.
Speaker 4: Grow So there's something to think on, for sure. But
Speaker 4: to go a little deeper than just co ruminating and
Speaker 4: toxic friendships, we did want to talk a little bit
Speaker 4: about abusive friendships, and it's not talked about often, but
Speaker 4: it should be something that people are aware of and
Speaker 4: should watch out for. As in fact, a couple of
Speaker 4: articles we're talking about the fact that this is not
Speaker 4: addressed because it's not technically seen as domestic violence, and
Speaker 4: so therefore people don't recognize it as quickly and realize
Speaker 4: how harmful it could be. But more often than not,
Speaker 4: abusive friendships and toxic friendships get mixed up, so we
Speaker 4: just kind of use those words interchangeably, and there is
Speaker 4: a subtle difference within.
Speaker 2: Abuse of friendships.
Speaker 4: You do again see the similar signs of toxic friendship,
Speaker 4: but it continues on. As one article states, abusive friendships
Speaker 4: often start on a positive note, but then the abuser
Speaker 4: may use repetition compulsion, which is when an abused person
Speaker 4: may unknowingly replay unresolved family dysfunctions in a new adult relationship,
Speaker 4: and that abuser uses that so they know what you've
Speaker 4: gone through and are able to use.
Speaker 2: That tactic against you, much like an abuser.
Speaker 4: Essentially, the person who is mistreated or abused may have
Speaker 4: gone through a lot in their childhood and endured so
Speaker 4: much in the childhood that it becomes a norm and
Speaker 4: is familiar. So therefore they don't realize that that's what's
Speaker 4: being extended into these friendships. And oftentimes you see you
Speaker 4: don't realize the negativity that's falling on you, and you
Speaker 4: feel like that's what you deserve or that's what friendship is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there have definitely been some situations, never like this
Speaker 3: to this extent, but there have been situations where I
Speaker 3: looked back and I was like, Wow, that wasn't a
Speaker 3: good friendship. But at the time, it seemed just normal, right,
Speaker 3: It felt like it just almost like the frog in
Speaker 3: the boiling pot where it slowly got worse and worse.
Speaker 3: But you were thinking this as your friend, and it
Speaker 3: would be a failure to cut off the friendship, right, have.
Speaker 1: To stay friends.
Speaker 3: Abusers will play on your insecurities, but only after they
Speaker 3: have quote seduced you into a trusting relationship, and they
Speaker 3: are often excessively charming and attentive. Some other warning signs
Speaker 3: include harassment, dishonesty, and manipulations. They are also likely to
Speaker 3: be very argumentative and critical, and abusive friendships can cause
Speaker 3: so many mental health and physical issues, such as depression, anxiety,
Speaker 3: stomach problems, high blood pressure, and even PTSD.
Speaker 4: I think again, we did want to address this, and
Speaker 4: of course this is still vague. It might not be
Speaker 4: all about the physical abuse, which is what's so easily
Speaker 4: noted as this is abuse, right, but this emotional manipulative
Speaker 4: tactics that causes people to be triggered in so many
Speaker 4: ways by what their actions are because they know they
Speaker 4: can trigger you or guilt you, or manipulate you into
Speaker 4: filling that you owe them something, that it becomes an
Speaker 4: abusive relationship.
Speaker 3: Right, And we do have a little bit more for
Speaker 3: you listeners, but first we're going to pause for one
Speaker 3: more work break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsors.
Speaker 4: So not all friendships and because it's bad. So it's
Speaker 4: not all about toxic friendships and or abusive friendships. But
Speaker 4: you know, things happen, we grow, we change, and sometimes
Speaker 4: that means friendships change too. And there are people I
Speaker 4: think gone fondly, but perhaps because of distance, we're not
Speaker 4: friends anymore. Maybe they started a family, and because I
Speaker 4: don't have a family, it's harder for us to relate,
Speaker 4: or it's harder to find time. Any of those things
Speaker 4: could be reasons while we are no longer friends. And yeah,
Speaker 4: just your interests and commonalities have shifted. And of course
Speaker 4: there's also possibility that your difference in belief. Yeah, that
Speaker 4: changes friendships. Perhaps it's politics. And for me, definitely my
Speaker 4: friends from my hometown, I don't talk to them as much.
Speaker 4: Some of us stopped talking altogether because of their reactions
Speaker 4: to Black Lives Matter, and that made me go, no, that's.
Speaker 2: A deal breaker for me. If you can't see how
Speaker 2: this is racist, sorry that it.
Speaker 4: Is what it is as well as the fact that
Speaker 4: I was super religious growing up. I'm no longer religious,
Speaker 4: and that changed a lot of friendships for me from
Speaker 4: college and high school, which again super religious to not
Speaker 4: and those people who are super religious still doesn't mesh
Speaker 4: too well in the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And that is one of those things of.
Speaker 3: Growing friendships and changing friendships because I too came from
Speaker 3: a very small conservative town and sometimes because I was
Speaker 3: liberal back then and most people are conservative and I'm
Speaker 3: getting fights.
Speaker 1: It's like my seventh grade it is my friends about their rock.
Speaker 3: Wars, but I didn't have like too many like minded
Speaker 3: friends that choose from But some of my friends who
Speaker 3: didn't think that way then have changed when they got
Speaker 3: out of the small town and things like that. So yeah,
Speaker 3: for sure, And that's something I've always struggled with where
Speaker 3: I'm just so determined. But we were such good friends.
Speaker 3: We have to stay good friends. But sometimes, yeah, it's
Speaker 3: just you change and they change and things.
Speaker 1: Life changes.
Speaker 2: Life changes.
Speaker 1: It does.
Speaker 3: That's not to say I do think you can make
Speaker 3: things work if there's like an equal amount of interest
Speaker 3: in time. But yeah, however, what if you want to
Speaker 3: break up with a friend, how do you do that.
Speaker 3: You can limit time. Sometimes ending of friendship is not necessary.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's all about limiting the amount of time or
Speaker 3: even specific situations, maybe only in group settings or maybe
Speaker 3: one on one setting. Boundaries are always a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I definitely had a friend of mine who I didn't
Speaker 4: get along with a person and the way they explain
Speaker 4: their friendship, not that they had to explain their friendship,
Speaker 4: but because I wasn't the only one who was like,
Speaker 4: I can't be around this person. They are too much
Speaker 4: of this, this and this, and I'm going to go off.
Speaker 4: I think I've said that I have a short temper.
Speaker 4: But they were like, yeah, they're one of those friends
Speaker 4: that they're better one on one.
Speaker 2: They're really sweet and very attentive.
Speaker 4: They get around a group of people and they don't
Speaker 4: know how to pull back and just our vibrant personality.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, okay, okay, yeah you have that one
Speaker 4: on one setting. I'm good, which is not nice, but whatever,
Speaker 4: but yeah. Also, we talked a little bit before about
Speaker 4: the fading, the ghosting. It's a slow walking away from
Speaker 4: a relationship. And I'd say this metaphorically obviously, and it
Speaker 4: may be the best solution possible, especially when we're talking
Speaker 4: about abusive or toxic relationships where you feel like it's
Speaker 4: just be combative trying to have a conversation with it.
Speaker 2: So whether it's you.
Speaker 4: Know, less texting right, a little more time, not seeing
Speaker 4: them as much as you used to, or all together,
Speaker 4: you know, not answering the call immediately kind of situation,
Speaker 4: not confiding in them so much, that might be a
Speaker 4: solution for you if you really feel like that's the
Speaker 4: only solution. Then again, let's say it is a really
Speaker 4: deep and personal relationship, but there's something that has happened
Speaker 4: that you feel like this is not going to work.
Speaker 4: A face to face conversation could work. Just be honest
Speaker 4: and open and also be willing to admit yourself when
Speaker 4: you haven't been the best friend as well, and so
Speaker 4: that could be a solution. I will say I know
Speaker 4: many of people as of late sending emails, and I've
Speaker 4: actually had an email they weren't necessarily trying to break well,
Speaker 4: it did sound like a breakup letter.
Speaker 2: It did sound like a breakup letter. Actually, it's happened
Speaker 2: to me twice.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, should remember this, So it's happened to
Speaker 4: me twice.
Speaker 2: Man I must be a bad friend.
Speaker 4: The first time was because I was super religious and
Speaker 4: pampas and over the top, and when they corrected me,
Speaker 4: I was like, you're correct, I'm so sorry, and we
Speaker 4: were fine After that.
Speaker 2: That opened up a whole other conversation.
Speaker 4: Another one was because they decided that because they were
Speaker 4: married now that they wanted to start a family and
Speaker 4: being around single friends wasn't good for them.
Speaker 2: They broke up with me.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to laugh at
Speaker 1: your Saturdays. I'm a bad friend.
Speaker 4: I just remembered why, and remembering those I'm like, wow.
Speaker 4: And of course, to be fair, it wasn't a bad
Speaker 4: thing to me.
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, okay, area, Yeah, we were talking
Speaker 3: about this recently, So I guess I have a combo.
Speaker 1: I have a combo example, because.
Speaker 3: I have an email fade out situation that just happened,
Speaker 3: which this person was one of my best friends.
Speaker 1: We've known each other since we were four years old.
Speaker 3: We've traveled together, we went to college together, we were
Speaker 3: roommates for a while, and she moved out.
Speaker 1: Of the country.
Speaker 3: She There are also issues around she really didn't like
Speaker 3: other women, which didn't sit well with me because I
Speaker 3: was like, what about me? Though, I don't feel about this,
Speaker 3: and then yeah, yeah, there there's some issues, but I
Speaker 3: wanted to keep the friendship going, and so we had
Speaker 3: like an email thing that slowly dropped pretty much like
Speaker 3: twice a year. We did go on two journeys abroad
Speaker 3: during that time, but this was the first year. She
Speaker 3: sent me an email last year and was like, oh
Speaker 3: my gosh, pandemic, how are you going in the US.
Speaker 3: So what's been going on with you? I'm so sorry
Speaker 3: I haven't been in contact. I'm really bad about it.
Speaker 3: I sent her this whole thing, and I was like,
Speaker 3: this is what's going on with fee?
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 3: Don't worry about, you know, being bad contact? I'm just
Speaker 3: bad to hear from you. And I never heard from
Speaker 3: her again. And this was her first birthday where I
Speaker 3: didn't send the like happy birthday thing because I guess
Speaker 3: we're done right.
Speaker 1: It's weird too, that situation is weird.
Speaker 3: I wonder if anyone else can relate to this, where
Speaker 3: we would have a lot of discussions where she would
Speaker 3: like say, this is my problems with you.
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 3: I'm someone who tries to be really self aware, especially
Speaker 3: like as I've gotten older.
Speaker 1: It wasn't in high school.
Speaker 3: Or whatever, but like, as I've gotten older, sometimes she
Speaker 3: would say things where I'm like, am I just being
Speaker 3: really obtuse because that doesn't sound like how I've interpreted
Speaker 3: these situations at all.
Speaker 1: It's just odd.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if someone is so quick and constantly trying to
Speaker 4: tell you you're bad, that would be toxic.
Speaker 2: That's the put down thing.
Speaker 3: She was definitely a friend, where like I was very,
Speaker 3: very worried all the time that whatever I said or did,
Speaker 3: our friendship was over and that was the end.
Speaker 1: But we did have some wonderful times together and it
Speaker 1: does make me sad right.
Speaker 2: And there, there definitely is.
Speaker 4: I think that's the part of the problem is when
Speaker 4: you remember the good times mm hmm, and it's been
Speaker 4: long enough that you forgot the bad times, you're like, eh,
Speaker 4: but it's.
Speaker 2: Nice to have those memories.
Speaker 4: And I've always been that type of person who would
Speaker 4: say that I love meeting people, even though I'm an
Speaker 4: inter because they change your perspective somehow, and you find
Speaker 4: something new about yourself in that relationship, and hopefully it's
Speaker 4: a good thing.
Speaker 2: And even if it's a bad thing, it's still a
Speaker 2: lesson to learn. It's the very least.
Speaker 4: And then as I'm getting to forty, yeah, I only
Speaker 4: have time for essential friendship, meaning people who I can
Speaker 4: feed into and they could feed into me and we
Speaker 4: can come out together as better people. Like it's just
Speaker 4: when you get to a certain age, it's harder to
Speaker 4: make friends a B.
Speaker 2: I've become more set in.
Speaker 4: My ways as I get older, and it's harder for
Speaker 4: me to change my personality to fit.
Speaker 2: You don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4: Reading a room and being able to at least understand
Speaker 4: and be compassionate and all of that for sure, But
Speaker 4: at the same time, I'm not going to be giddy, happy, sweet,
Speaker 4: go lucky girl. That's just not me, right, And I
Speaker 4: no longer have time, right or the mental capacity to
Speaker 4: try to change my personality to fit into this. I mean,
Speaker 4: I feel like I struggled to not just without work
Speaker 4: and try to be professional. I don't know whether you know,
Speaker 4: like professional is hard for me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think that's something we all kind
Speaker 3: of learn and go through. Is essentially, what is this
Speaker 3: friendship giving me? Is it worth the time and energy?
Speaker 3: And I know back when I first started and we
Speaker 3: were the stuff, I've never told you had the YouTube
Speaker 3: channel that was really active. That was one of the
Speaker 3: things we heard the most from young listeners especially, was
Speaker 3: how do I I'm in a toxic friendship?
Speaker 1: What do I do? So?
Speaker 3: I know that this is something we all have dealt
Speaker 3: with and seen, right, So I hope that this helps
Speaker 3: in some way.
Speaker 4: Yes, And the good news is there are people out
Speaker 4: there who can connect. And there was a survey that
Speaker 4: said that one in ten people don't actually have close friends.
Speaker 2: That made me sad because.
Speaker 4: I definitely could tell you you immediately the four people
Speaker 4: that I could call if I was in an emergency state.
Speaker 4: And that makes me sad to think that someone might
Speaker 4: go without that because for sure, as a person who
Speaker 4: don't feel close to my family didn't have a family
Speaker 4: at one point in time, my friends are my family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I.
Speaker 4: Can't imagine what it would be like not to have
Speaker 4: people close to me that I could lean on and
Speaker 4: know that we'll be there for the times that I
Speaker 4: can't be there for myself or that I can't see
Speaker 4: the reason to keep going because I've had many of
Speaker 4: those times. Yeah, but having friends to truly be there
Speaker 4: to hold my hand in the darkest moments. That's been
Speaker 4: a lifesaver, literally a lifesaver for me.
Speaker 1: Yes, I totally agree.
Speaker 3: That's very, very, very powerful and I wish that everyone
Speaker 3: had it because I think it does make you good.
Speaker 1: Friendships help you make you.
Speaker 3: Better because I have see you and Samantha knows, I've
Speaker 3: been on a fan fiction binge.
Speaker 1: I just read a fan fiction where one of.
Speaker 3: The characters was like about to die and realized like
Speaker 3: literally no one would come to save him because he's
Speaker 3: a terrible person and no friends.
Speaker 1: It's then changed his ways once he survived.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a scrooge.
Speaker 3: It's very very much Yes, yes, don't be a scrooge everyone.
Speaker 4: And if you need friends and you've been listening to
Speaker 4: us and count as us friends, please know.
Speaker 2: We are your friends.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, we really do appreciate the support from all
Speaker 3: of you. That is a true statement. And if you
Speaker 3: would like to contact us, you can Our email is
Speaker 3: Stuff medium, mom Steph at iHeartMedia dot com. You can
Speaker 3: find us on Instagram at Stepmo I've never told you
Speaker 3: are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always
Speaker 3: to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 2: Who is also a friend.
Speaker 3: Yes, and thanks to you for listening steff I never
Speaker 3: told you his protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: For more podcast from Iheartradiovi.
Speaker 3: Is it the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you
Speaker 3: listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 4: Yeah,