Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and
Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V.
Speaker 2: Wilton. We talked about.
Speaker 1: This Takanovite movement this week, Yes, but we also were
Speaker 1: going to talk about Succession, Yes, which makes me happy
Speaker 1: to talk about because that show is stressful but very enjoyable.
Speaker 1: And I will tell you how I started watching it.
Speaker 2: I've watched none of it.
Speaker 1: This is one of those shows that I started watching
Speaker 1: on a flight on my way out to California, Okay,
Speaker 1: And I came to it very late, like pretty recently,
Speaker 1: like in end of twenty twenty three, so I got
Speaker 1: to mainline the.
Speaker 2: Whole thing, which is kind of nice.
Speaker 1: But I watched two episodes on my way out there
Speaker 1: because I didn't start it right away, and like, I
Speaker 1: was obsessed the whole time we were in California. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't stop talking about it, and I was almost excited
Speaker 1: for a really good trip that I was having to
Speaker 1: end so I could get back on a plane and.
Speaker 2: Watch more episodes. That's how good it was.
Speaker 1: And it's been great, and it had one of the
Speaker 1: best final seasons of a show ever, like just satisfying
Speaker 1: and delicious and painful and good, and I'm delighted it's
Speaker 1: getting so many awards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have watched none of it.
Speaker 1: As I just said, we have an accidental theme for
Speaker 1: the week of TV inspired episodes that Tracy's watched none of.
Speaker 1: I will say this, I don't know if you will
Speaker 1: like it or not for a very specific reason.
Speaker 2: Is that reason? Throw up?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm trying to think if there's ever any throw No,
Speaker 1: but I will. I don't want to out you, so
Speaker 1: stop me if you're like, don't, but I think you've
Speaker 1: been pretty public. You don't like The Office, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: like the embarrassment comedy in an office setting, which we
Speaker 1: have all lived through, it's just uncomfortable. I have a
Speaker 1: hard time with any TV show where part of the
Speaker 1: setup is people at work having a bad and often
Speaker 1: cringey time because of their terrible bosses. So imagine that
Speaker 1: The Office is a really spectacularly written drama.
Speaker 2: I don't know that you enjoy it. I think it
Speaker 2: will stressed me out.
Speaker 1: I think it might there are things in it that
Speaker 1: you and I having worked for in a variety of
Speaker 1: large corporations. Yeah, I mean I white knuckled some moments
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, where I'm like, oh, I have been
Speaker 1: there when like a boss wagh up the chain makes
Speaker 1: a decision that they think is great and everyone under
Speaker 1: them has to figure out how to execute it in
Speaker 1: a and it's often painful and none of those people's
Speaker 1: needs are ever considered. And there is a lot of
Speaker 1: that on this show. Well, there are shows that are
Speaker 1: set in workplaces and those workplaces have dysfunctions, but the
Speaker 1: episodes often end with like a resolution. Nope, okay, So
Speaker 1: just I'm just going to give an example. So I know,
Speaker 1: people when we discuss things like this, people are often
Speaker 1: compelled to write in with opinions, and so I'm just
Speaker 1: going to give an example of some shows I have
Speaker 1: liked that are also about dysfunctional workplaces.
Speaker 2: Superstore.
Speaker 1: I really enjoy fun Fun, so fun, you know, and
Speaker 1: there's times in that show when like managers or bosses
Speaker 1: are just making bad decisions, but you know, often there's
Speaker 1: a resolution. Better Off Ted similarly the workplace and Better
Speaker 1: Off Ted very dysfunctional, but the episodes felt sort of
Speaker 1: resolved and kind of optimistic in some ways, sometimes in
Speaker 1: a way that I found better when we you know,
Speaker 1: our show is part of a company that's been through
Speaker 1: just a whole series of acquisitions and mergers and spinoffs
Speaker 1: and whatever. And during one of those I was promoted
Speaker 1: into management and was given management training, and there were
Speaker 1: scenes from the office that were used as like the
Speaker 1: conversation starter for sort of how not. And I was like,
Speaker 1: this is why I can't watch this show, Like I
Speaker 1: just I want to fix those people's workplace so it's
Speaker 1: not doing this to them anymore. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: will say, you don't see a lot of like the
Speaker 1: lower level employees on succession. You're seeing like the family
Speaker 1: that runs this business, and they're messed up inner relations
Speaker 1: and how they are all jockeying for power show, which
Speaker 1: to me just leaves like the grossest taste in my mouth,
Speaker 1: Like I don't have whatever ambition that is to run
Speaker 1: any Like I don't. But it's very compelling and all
Speaker 1: of the acting is spectacular, like there is no weak
Speaker 1: link in that chain. And it's kind of interesting because
Speaker 1: you get well, you start to get a little invested
Speaker 1: in certain characters, thinking like, oh, this is the one
Speaker 1: who has a little bit of a conscience and if
Speaker 1: they can just nurture that seed and grow a tree
Speaker 1: of actual good judgment and competanto that tree doesn't it
Speaker 1: gets no, not gonna discount, so don't don't get attached an.
Speaker 1: But it is spectacular television and I love it. So
Speaker 1: that is yeah, why it inspired this to kud of
Speaker 1: my Movement episode. But I also have such feelings about
Speaker 1: this moment because, like I said at the end of
Speaker 1: the episode, I have a weird I feel really bad
Speaker 1: for Alexis ta Khanov in the midst of all of it. Yes,
Speaker 1: I do not feel good about him selecting a fourteen
Speaker 1: year old as his bride y so gross, But I
Speaker 1: do think, like I said, he was a guy who
Speaker 1: did not have a lot of education but was a
Speaker 1: pretty good miner, and they were like, we can exploit that, sure,
Speaker 1: and it just is like and then it was gone
Speaker 1: and he didn't know how to cope with his life anymore.
Speaker 1: And I, yeah, I think that's it's a little bit heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where you're like, if you
Speaker 1: had not if none of that had happened, would he have,
Speaker 1: you know, lived out his life with you have Dokia
Speaker 1: and their kids and been poor and probably not having
Speaker 1: a great and luxurious life, but you know, not the
Speaker 1: extreme roller coaster that his life began, because right right,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I hope his his surviving children. I
Speaker 1: think his daughters are still alive. I hope they are
Speaker 1: prosperous and faring very well, but I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: not my business to look into their lives. No, so, uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. I wondered how you would perceive some of
Speaker 1: this as interlocking into what we had talked about on
Speaker 1: you know, the famine discussion, because you did the research
Speaker 1: on the Holidaymoor episode. Yeah, did it conjure any thoughts
Speaker 1: or like, were you like, huh, I hadn't thought about
Speaker 1: how this led to this, lad to this or you
Speaker 1: usually have a pretty good holistic.
Speaker 2: Sense of how it all plays out.
Speaker 1: Uh, this this is not the only effort, like Stalin's
Speaker 1: Fidier plans, not the only effort to like let's just
Speaker 1: totally revolutionize how things work, oh right, but then went
Speaker 1: very badly and caused it famine or other strife and
Speaker 1: huge death tolls. And so I feel like, now I
Speaker 1: am really cynical any time I hear any proposal for
Speaker 1: any kind of effort like that, And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not going to go great. And with this one
Speaker 1: in particular, so much of the Holladaymoor episode was focused
Speaker 1: specifically on like farming and grain and food that I like,
Speaker 1: I didn't spend a lot of time a lot of
Speaker 1: time thinking about like industry and what happened after that
Speaker 1: and all of that. So it's definitely all part of
Speaker 1: the same the same.
Speaker 3: Arc of.
Speaker 1: A lot of really radical plans that did not work well, right,
Speaker 1: some of which on the surface seemed kind of compelling.
Speaker 2: Like one of the things that I.
Speaker 1: Was thinking about as we talked about this was like
Speaker 1: all the praise for labor, Like I can absolutely understand
Speaker 1: why a lot of folks who were in the labor
Speaker 1: movement in the United States were like, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: this is the way that like and like had a
Speaker 1: lot of especially at the outset, like very pro pro
Speaker 1: Soviet ideas, until it became clear that like a lot
Speaker 1: of things were leading to famine and destruction and death.
Speaker 1: Because when you're talking about the rights of workers and
Speaker 1: praising the worker and like praising innovations that came from
Speaker 1: the worker, I'm like, I can totally see how people
Speaker 1: might just like eat that up when you're in a
Speaker 1: movement that's like trying to fight for the basic rights.
Speaker 2: Of the worker. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what I'm hearing is that in your big
Speaker 1: sweeping changes are bad, is that you're never gonna get
Speaker 1: on board with my internet time idea as long as
Speaker 1: your internet time does not lead to mass famine and
Speaker 1: death when liquidating a class of dear lord, no people,
Speaker 1: no one's ever going to I hope people know that.
Speaker 1: While I do love the concept of internet time, I
Speaker 1: am joking.
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not really trying to start a movement,
Speaker 2: but man, it would be so cool.
Speaker 1: Let's just all take a week off and then we
Speaker 1: just start the clocks over again, because that would work.
Speaker 1: That's no problem. I feel like I'm exactly the person. See,
Speaker 1: this is exactly why I should never have a position
Speaker 1: of extreme power, because nobody who's like kind of a creative,
Speaker 1: dreamy kind of person should do that. Because then I
Speaker 1: say that and it sounds like a great idea to me,
Speaker 1: and there are a bunch of other people that go,
Speaker 1: how are we going to do this?
Speaker 2: Shoot, didn't even think this through. That's how it happens.
Speaker 2: That happens.
Speaker 1: I'm having a flashback to the time when we were
Speaker 1: owned by a previous company and they changed all of
Speaker 1: our email overnight and didn't tell anybody. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: people thought they were fired.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because none of us could log in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, went to log in to their email over the weekend,
Speaker 1: their account did not exist anymore.
Speaker 2: They were like, I still work here. Yeah. It was
Speaker 2: a wild time. Yeah, wild time.
Speaker 1: So the time I got in trouble for yelling at
Speaker 1: some people for having not communicated that. You got in
Speaker 1: trouble for that. I don't know if I got in
Speaker 1: trouble for that. Getting in trouble is probably too strong
Speaker 1: a word. I sent a very pointed email, which was
Speaker 1: maybe too pointed, and the response I got to it
Speaker 1: was not was not like, oh, you are so right.
Speaker 1: I absolutely should go apologize to everyone who thought they
Speaker 1: were fired.
Speaker 2: It was so many years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a previous iteration of our thing.
Speaker 1: It was just a wild time. Every company, by the way,
Speaker 1: has been through that at some point in time. Oh,
Speaker 1: I mean I can't anytime I talk to friends who
Speaker 1: work for some big corporation or even a small corporation.
Speaker 1: Small companies have problems too, for sure. It's like they
Speaker 1: all have some absurd story of like, and then the
Speaker 1: decision was made to.
Speaker 2: Give us all a baby goat for Fridays.
Speaker 1: Like there's always some wacky thing that someone thinks is
Speaker 1: going to be a big innovation and of course turns
Speaker 1: into an absolute stressful train wreck. I don't know the
Speaker 1: solution here, because I do think like, sometimes you have
Speaker 1: to shake stuff up, but it's hard to do that
Speaker 1: and maintain like the through line that people need to
Speaker 1: get their jobs done.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tricky, tricky anyway, he's here our hippie talks.
Speaker 2: I'm big.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think part of my email had said I'm
Speaker 1: probably gonna get in trouble for sending this email, and
Speaker 1: the response included, if you have to put in the
Speaker 1: sentence I'm probably going to get in trouble for sending
Speaker 1: this email.
Speaker 2: Don't send the email. And I was like, we're not
Speaker 2: gonna agree on this. Maww.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We also talked about Emily Warren Roebling this week and
Speaker 1: our accidental theme of stuff inspired by TV that I
Speaker 1: didn't watch.
Speaker 2: I have not watched this show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in this case, neither of us has watched the
Speaker 1: show The Gilded Age. I was too busy getting up
Speaker 1: early so that I could watch an episode of Succession
Speaker 1: before I.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: God, So it's a show I may watch sometime. I
Speaker 1: just I have not watched it. So while while I
Speaker 1: was doing research on this episode, I listened to an
Speaker 1: episode of the podcast Bowery Boys.
Speaker 2: Oh Yeah.
Speaker 1: Podcast Yeah about New York history is sort of like
Speaker 1: a background knowledge listening for me. This is an episode
Speaker 1: that they put out that was about all three of
Speaker 1: the Roblings, so John and Washington and Emily Warren Robling.
Speaker 1: And near the beginning of it, they were talking about
Speaker 1: favorite bridges designed by John Robling, and one of them
Speaker 1: says that he particularly likes this one that is over
Speaker 1: the Delaware River near the New York Pennsylvania border, not
Speaker 1: far from Port Jervis, And I was like, hang on,
Speaker 1: I know exactly where you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Let me look.
Speaker 1: And every fall, a bunch of friends of mine we
Speaker 1: go in together. When I say a bunch, I mean
Speaker 1: like thirty of us, and we rent what is effectively
Speaker 1: a mansion that has sleeping space for thirty people, which
Speaker 1: you can do when you have thirty people all pitching
Speaker 1: in on the cost. And as we drive out to
Speaker 1: this place, there is this weird one lane bridge that
Speaker 1: we drive over, and it has always been weird to me.
Speaker 1: Number one, that it is a one lane bridge. Traffic
Speaker 1: goes on it in both directions, so you gotta yield
Speaker 1: if if it's coming from the other way. But then
Speaker 1: also just the structure of it seemed odd to me.
Speaker 1: I was like, this bridge, it's weird to have a
Speaker 1: one lane bridge.
Speaker 2: You don't see many of those.
Speaker 1: I know they exist, especially more rural areas, but like,
Speaker 1: you don't see that many of them, and just the
Speaker 1: building of it was weird. Turns out, as I learned
Speaker 1: from this episode of The Bowery Boys, that this was
Speaker 1: originally an aqueduct that John Roebling designed, and that coal
Speaker 1: barge is coal barges would be floated across it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, well, that answers why this bridge has
Speaker 1: also always seemed so weirdly designed to me. So then
Speaker 1: of course I immediately got into the group chat with
Speaker 1: the friends that, you know, some of the friends that
Speaker 1: I go on this trip with every year, and I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, you know that one way bridge that
Speaker 1: we are always driving over, here's why it's so weird.
Speaker 2: So that was great.
Speaker 1: Some things came up in the research for this that
Speaker 1: didn't make it into the episode. One is that there
Speaker 1: was a report in one of the newspapers in eighteen
Speaker 1: ninety from Trenton, New Jersey, and I'm just going to
Speaker 1: read it quote State Dairy Inspector maguire is investigating the
Speaker 1: cause of the sickness which attacked two or three dozen
Speaker 1: of the guests at a barn party given by Missus
Speaker 1: Washington a Roebling on Friday evening.
Speaker 2: None of these cases so far have been fatal. Bump bump.
Speaker 1: I didn't find any other anything about this, but I was,
Speaker 1: you know, writing just a whole story in my head
Speaker 1: about you know that Emily the party that Emily were
Speaker 1: in robling Through where everybody got food poisoning. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what I'm assuming happened. There saw contradictory accounts of whether
Speaker 1: she had resigned from her leadership position at the Daughters
Speaker 1: of the American Revolution because of her health or whether
Speaker 1: she was voted out in something that sounded like it
Speaker 1: was full of drama.
Speaker 2: I mean, I could not confirm which of those was
Speaker 2: say it does.
Speaker 1: I was like, uh, that sounds like maybe a good
Speaker 1: cover story, but I don't actually know, right, I mean
Speaker 1: I am now probably writing historical fan fiction, but like,
Speaker 1: given the nature of that, she wrote near the end
Speaker 1: of her life about her son even not believing she
Speaker 1: was capable of what she was capable of and stuff.
Speaker 1: Was she getting real frustrated with people towards the end
Speaker 1: and maybe just like tired of dealing with the things
Speaker 1: she had been I mean, she was so accomplished in
Speaker 1: so many ways. Am I particularly marvel at how much
Speaker 1: education she continued to go after, you know, in her
Speaker 1: very adult life. And so I could see someone like
Speaker 1: that eventually hitting that tipping point of like, but you
Speaker 1: are treating me like a delicate flower. I have all
Speaker 1: the skills and knowledge and maybe that becoming a greeting
Speaker 1: point in social situation that makes sense, or maybe characteristically
Speaker 1: some other members of that group were like, what did
Speaker 1: she say about foreign husbands? I don't know, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: didn't love that at all. No, So we said that
Speaker 1: there's a ton of correspondence between her and Washington that
Speaker 1: survives in a collection, but like, it's not they haven't
Speaker 1: been published for everyone to read, right right, There are
Speaker 1: a couple of quotes from them that have circulated in
Speaker 1: a lot of articles. One is actually not between Washington
Speaker 1: and Emily, but was a letter that Washington wrote to
Speaker 1: his sister right after they met. And I don't remember
Speaker 1: the exact wording, but he was talking about having met
Speaker 1: this woman and he said something like, so, yes, someone
Speaker 1: has finally captured your brother Washi's heart. And the fact
Speaker 1: that he were for her to himself is Washy. I
Speaker 1: found really charming. And I'm like, I'm guessing this is
Speaker 1: probably like the family nickname for him.
Speaker 2: The other was and I think.
Speaker 1: This might have also been a letter from him to
Speaker 1: his sister, not a letter it was. This was also
Speaker 1: to his sister, so he wrote he described her as
Speaker 1: quote a most entertaining talker, which is a mighty good thing.
Speaker 1: You knew, I myself, being so stupid, I loved that. Also,
Speaker 1: you had remarked on that address and sort of the
Speaker 1: moment where we took a took a little sponsor break,
Speaker 1: you had had commented on the address at the alumni dinner.
Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact wording of what you said,
Speaker 1: but it was something to the effect of, man, that
Speaker 1: guy could really write a speech. Yeah, I mean, like
Speaker 1: we we were both really quite moved by it. During recording,
Speaker 1: we were both very emotionally overcome by this very flowery,
Speaker 1: beautiful description, you know, which has some elements today that
Speaker 1: come across, as I would say, a little maybe patronizing,
Speaker 1: but like still very very beautifully written.
Speaker 2: So Rother W.
Speaker 1: Raymond, who gave that address, was a mining engineer. He
Speaker 1: was not a graduate of renssel Or Polytechnic Institute, And
Speaker 1: as I understand it, the reason he was giving the
Speaker 1: address at this alumni dinner was specifically.
Speaker 2: Because he wrote a good speech.
Speaker 1: He had a reputation as a speech maker, so like
Speaker 1: he gave this speech for that reason, not because he
Speaker 1: was affiliated with the with the institute. Well, he gave
Speaker 1: a good speech. That's a really good speech. As you said,
Speaker 1: some of it obviously patronizing, which is part and partial
Speaker 1: of its time, right, but it's also.
Speaker 2: Really like.
Speaker 1: In terms of a narrative, it's just beautifully structured. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it. Do you dream that someone would write
Speaker 1: such a speech about me?
Speaker 2: My goodness. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of sort of more recent write
Speaker 1: ups that are really focused on Emily in the ground.
Speaker 1: She broke into a space that women were not part of, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: super important. I think it's also really important to talk
Speaker 1: about disability and access and accommodations and things like that,
Speaker 1: because still today there are a lot of people who
Speaker 1: are skilled in whatever field, but like like an office
Speaker 1: is not accessible to them, right And in a lot
Speaker 1: of cases like the default in the United States, while
Speaker 1: we do have things like the Americans with Disabilities Act,
Speaker 1: which is a minimum, not the end, I'll be all
Speaker 1: of everything, right, Like, there are still places, plenty of
Speaker 1: plenty of places where sort of the go to responses, well,
Speaker 1: like that person obviously can't do that job, instead of
Speaker 1: how can we make this job accessible to that person
Speaker 1: who has this expertise? Right, I mean I get frustrated
Speaker 1: to I'm sure you have run across this where there
Speaker 1: are discussions about situations like that, and they're always there's
Speaker 1: always some person who thinks they are telling it like
Speaker 1: it is, and they're like, why should jobs have to
Speaker 1: make special dispensations so this one person can get blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. And I get I rate, which
Speaker 1: I know you do as well, and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: the point is that everyone could do that job.
Speaker 2: Job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just for this one person. In this case,
Speaker 1: there might be one person you can easily point to
Speaker 1: and say they are the beneficiary of the work that
Speaker 1: we're immediately doing to like make this place accessible. But
Speaker 1: that will mean that going forward, it is accessible to everyone.
Speaker 1: That is the point, Like I just it makes me
Speaker 1: rabid angry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom.
Speaker 1: When my mom went back to work after my brother
Speaker 1: and I were little, because she stayed home with us
Speaker 1: for a little bit.
Speaker 2: After some years after my brother was born, when she went.
Speaker 1: Back to work, she spent the entire rest of her
Speaker 1: career working with disabled people. So she taught disabled adults,
Speaker 1: she worked in a couple of different roles in long
Speaker 1: term care for kids, disabled kids who had like really
Speaker 1: really high support needs. And then she herself started to
Speaker 1: become disabled and the place she was working, which was
Speaker 1: literally residential care for disabled children and did not want
Speaker 1: to accommodate my mom's disability. That is the wildest Uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so this is not a new thing. It's uh progress
Speaker 1: has been made, uh since the days of Emily Warren
Speaker 1: Rubling and her husband, but not to the point that
Speaker 1: we need to in my opinion. Yeah, Okurt, So I
Speaker 1: think that's where we can leave it today. Fingers crossed
Speaker 1: for better futures.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So Happy Friday.
Speaker 1: Whatever's happening this weekend for you, I hope it goes well.
Speaker 1: We will be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow. We
Speaker 1: will have something brand new on Monday. Stuff you Missed
Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
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