Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and'm welcome to stuff.
Speaker 2: I never told you a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3: And we are moving into February of the new year,
Speaker 3: which means we're going to have some fun contents around
Speaker 3: romance or the lack of romance. We've already got some
Speaker 3: plans some plans around it and classic Annie fashion. I
Speaker 3: won't put this on usmanth although I think you do
Speaker 3: the same.
Speaker 2: Probably.
Speaker 3: I wanted to bring back an episode we did about
Speaker 3: heartbreak and the science of heartbreak and like why you
Speaker 3: like love you can relate to those breakup songs and
Speaker 3: all of that stuff, you know, just because a lot
Speaker 3: of us are probably thinking about that stuff right now.
Speaker 3: We have some I'm really excited we're going to come
Speaker 3: back and revisit online dating because there's a lot going
Speaker 3: on with that right now. And we also are going
Speaker 3: to come back and do your not two part episode.
Speaker 1: Other episode, just another episode.
Speaker 3: Just a related episode on magazines and particularly I think
Speaker 3: a magazine. Magazines have a lot to say about romance. Yes,
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna be fun, but in the meantime,
Speaker 3: please enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and.
Speaker 2: Welcome to stuff.
Speaker 3: I never told your protection of iHeartRadio's how stuff works.
Speaker 2: We're moving into the holidays.
Speaker 1: We are, you know what.
Speaker 4: Though, after the intro, for some reason, the Mario theme
Speaker 4: do Do Do Do Do Do just came into my head.
Speaker 4: That's gonna be my new like themed background every time
Speaker 4: we start our introduction.
Speaker 2: In your head?
Speaker 1: In my head?
Speaker 4: Okay, oh no, not, I'm not gonna help you would
Speaker 4: be just in my head.
Speaker 1: Just I just want you to know that's where I'm going.
Speaker 3: I'm like, if you want to give my head to
Speaker 3: a copyright battle and Nintendo, I will follow you the dark.
Speaker 5: We will lose.
Speaker 2: I do not.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, fine, but yes, holiday is coming.
Speaker 2: It is, which are the most wonderful time of the year.
Speaker 1: My least favorite time of the year for breakups.
Speaker 2: It's the wonderful breakup there you go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the US, more people break up this time
Speaker 3: of year than any other time of year.
Speaker 4: Which is really odd because I've heard this as the
Speaker 4: cuffing season.
Speaker 1: You know that's this time.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: So Urban Dictionary has defined it as during the fall
Speaker 4: and winter months, people who would normally rather be single
Speaker 4: or promiscuous find themselves along with the rest of the
Speaker 4: world desiring to be cuffed or tied down by theories relationship.
Speaker 4: The cold weather and prolonged indoor activity causes singles to
Speaker 4: become lonely and desperate to be cuffed individuals.
Speaker 1: So this is called the cuffing season.
Speaker 3: Oh, I can't wait to see if this happens to me.
Speaker 3: Now I get it. With me, I get it because
Speaker 3: you know, I don't have to have to. I don't
Speaker 3: deal with a lot of what is that called it's
Speaker 3: not external relatives. So I have my immediate family that's
Speaker 3: where the holidays and outside of that, I don't really
Speaker 3: have much interaction at the holidays anymore.
Speaker 2: But you know, there's always the question of like, are
Speaker 2: you still single?
Speaker 3: Right going on there? So I get that kind of
Speaker 3: anxiety around it.
Speaker 1: Oh, me too.
Speaker 4: My family has a tradition in which they like to
Speaker 4: take couples pictures or family's pictures, oh wow, throughout.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter if.
Speaker 4: It's just my immediate family, which involves me and three
Speaker 4: of us siblings and then their family, or if it's
Speaker 4: with my as you said, external I don't I'm not.
Speaker 1: Really sure how to go about that.
Speaker 4: But like my cousins and all of that. Yes, yes,
Speaker 4: y'all were doing this earlier.
Speaker 2: Earlier, a little slur and normal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was already bad. Now it's even worse.
Speaker 4: But they also do it too where they have family
Speaker 4: pictures and they do it in front of everyone, in
Speaker 4: front of the fireplace. And I remember one year and
Speaker 4: by the way, I've never taken anyone home for a holiday,
Speaker 4: except for friends who may need to stay, you know,
Speaker 4: may not have their family nearby and can't go home.
Speaker 4: I've never brought anybody. That's just not something I do.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: My siblings have just started taking people home at thirteen.
Speaker 4: Who Yeah, and then there was my nieces and nephew,
Speaker 4: not most, not all of them, but a few of
Speaker 4: them started, like.
Speaker 1: At fifteen sixteen started bringing others with it. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is so weird.
Speaker 4: To be fair, again, I think a lot of them
Speaker 4: would rather be with my family than their own family
Speaker 4: or whatever the crisis was time. But yeah, they have
Speaker 4: this habit of bringing people from a young age, and
Speaker 4: so I've never done that.
Speaker 1: It's never been an interest to me. I don't care enough.
Speaker 4: Maybe, but because of that, they would have a couple
Speaker 4: of pictures a couple of pictures, a couple of pictures,
Speaker 4: and then I would be alone and my grant, my
Speaker 4: poor sweet grandmother, and I loved her dearly would be like.
Speaker 1: You need to get up there too, and I was like.
Speaker 4: That's okay, I'm okay, I don't need to be by
Speaker 4: myself in front of the damn fireplace. But she would
Speaker 4: me so hard. My mom would get angry with me
Speaker 4: for not doing it.
Speaker 2: And then as I.
Speaker 4: Got older, I'm like, Mom, please, please, this makes me miserable.
Speaker 1: And she was like, you're right, you're right, and so
Speaker 1: one year she's like, oh, I'll get up there with you.
Speaker 1: So it was me and my mom. If it was
Speaker 1: me and my dad, it was me.
Speaker 4: And someone else that was of significance but not a
Speaker 4: significant other. Yeah, so that was always fun for the holidays.
Speaker 4: There's so many reasons I don't like it, but that
Speaker 4: was one of the other reasons.
Speaker 3: But man, if you had done that, you could make
Speaker 3: a calendar of just me.
Speaker 1: I should have leaned into it.
Speaker 4: I think it was partially like the shame of not bringing,
Speaker 4: you know, as usual, because my younger cousins would bring people.
Speaker 1: And I mean when I say younger, I mean like
Speaker 1: ten years younger. Right, would bring people and I'd be like, hey, y'all,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit in the corner. All good, don't look
Speaker 1: at me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm fine. I'm fine over here.
Speaker 3: I can understand why the holidays they're stressful. And then
Speaker 3: you're adding stuff like photos and meeting the family, and
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm the type of person who would
Speaker 3: wait and break up on the other.
Speaker 2: Side of the holidays.
Speaker 3: Right, I've only taken a significant other home once for
Speaker 3: the holidays. No, Actually, what happened was he wanted he
Speaker 3: was a big cruise person, and he wanted to do
Speaker 3: a long cruise over Christmas in New Year's and so
Speaker 3: I was going to miss Christmas, and we invited my
Speaker 3: mom and my little brother to his place to have
Speaker 3: like a Christmas dinner. And that's when I discovered, because
Speaker 3: we spent most of the time at my place, he
Speaker 3: had no nothing to cook with, like, so we had
Speaker 3: to go buy like pots and and stuff, and it
Speaker 3: was kind of a disaster.
Speaker 1: Oh, that would be when I'm doing a catered mill.
Speaker 3: Somehow I should have that was well, I was trying
Speaker 3: to like replicate what I.
Speaker 2: Would have my mom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we went on a cruise, and we
Speaker 3: have all of these pictures of us, like Christmas trees
Speaker 3: and New Year's.
Speaker 2: And Hawaiian shirts. Uh.
Speaker 3: Usually for me, I'm just an athletic gear all the time.
Speaker 3: That was when I was training for a marathon. Actually
Speaker 3: training for a marathon on a brow ship.
Speaker 2: Is hard as hell.
Speaker 1: I'm on a boat running.
Speaker 2: Right, That's right.
Speaker 3: And you know we broke up not a couple of
Speaker 3: months after that, and then the next year, my mom,
Speaker 3: I don't know if I've told this story on the
Speaker 3: show before.
Speaker 2: I think I had, but Bradley Cooper came to our
Speaker 2: office once and right, that's right. Yeah, she loved the story.
Speaker 3: My mom became obsessed with the idea that I could
Speaker 3: marry Bradley Cooper because I he was in the office
Speaker 3: and I did not even know he was in the office.
Speaker 3: I saw him, and honestly, I thought it was another
Speaker 3: corporate guy I was trying to avoid him.
Speaker 2: Turns out as a Bradley Cooper.
Speaker 3: And my mom was I think shallow had just come out,
Speaker 3: so she was in prime like Bradley Cooper mine. So
Speaker 3: It'd be like nine pm on a Tuesday and I'd
Speaker 3: get a text from my mom.
Speaker 2: You know he speaks French.
Speaker 4: Like random bags about why you should be in love
Speaker 4: with this person and then pursue him.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love it. I did too. I thought it
Speaker 2: was hilarious. So I for a sponse.
Speaker 3: We had a sponsor that was like a gift card
Speaker 3: holiday card company, and I had no significant other. I
Speaker 3: don't have dogs or I don't have basically, it would
Speaker 3: be just me, like you were saying, right, So I
Speaker 3: got the idea to photo me and Bradley Cooper together
Speaker 3: in this Christmas.
Speaker 4: Cart, got that wonderful Christmas call It's so good, It's
Speaker 4: so good.
Speaker 3: And then on the back I wrote, you know you're
Speaker 3: right mom, Brad and I.
Speaker 2: And she thought it was true. For like two seconds
Speaker 2: she believed stopped with joy. It finally happened.
Speaker 3: But now my idea is every year I'm gonna like
Speaker 3: up the ante and make more and more ridiculous photos,
Speaker 3: which is awesome.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 4: I wish I could have stuff like that up until
Speaker 4: about and we will stop with the personal stories. I know,
Speaker 4: but up until about four or five years ago, when
Speaker 4: a majority of my siblings which is all of my
Speaker 4: siblings went through sad divorces my mom at Christmas holiday
Speaker 4: traditions would be hard yelling at me about.
Speaker 1: How I'm going to die alone.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
Speaker 4: Yes. So this is also another reason that I'm like,
Speaker 4: this is the worst season of the So I should
Speaker 4: start doing that. I should do some photo shopping and
Speaker 4: be like, look, look what's happening.
Speaker 1: I'm dating dude. I need to find a good picture
Speaker 1: of Chris Evans.
Speaker 4: Oh, I need to like photoshop myself being hugged by him.
Speaker 2: Okay, I can help you with this.
Speaker 1: I really wanted to hold me.
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe one day.
Speaker 3: You know, we're actually not talking about specifically this, We're
Speaker 3: talking about heartbreak.
Speaker 1: So my mother was heartbroken because there are a lot.
Speaker 2: Of different types of heartbreak.
Speaker 3: I feel like the one that most people think of
Speaker 3: is when your significant other you break up or something.
Speaker 2: But there's a bunch of different types.
Speaker 3: And we are going to be talking a lot about
Speaker 3: clearly about that specific type of heartbreak, but we're going
Speaker 3: to talk about others. And it is it does seem
Speaker 3: to be a cultural obsession of ours.
Speaker 2: It's hard to avoid. I mean, on a daily basis.
Speaker 3: As I was walking here, I had Google Play on shuffle,
Speaker 3: and I think every song was about heartbreak, and I
Speaker 3: don't know if that's because I've been researching it and
Speaker 3: Google knows everything you do, but I was kind of like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: and I broke up with aforementioned boyfriend. I remember all
Speaker 3: of a sudden these songs that I had been making
Speaker 3: fun of.
Speaker 2: I was like, yes, right, I feel it too.
Speaker 4: I absolutely understand that because they're still in the back
Speaker 4: of my head and still on my playlist too. So
Speaker 4: when I randomly shovel something, I was like, oh, that
Speaker 4: emotion comes up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh there's that feeling.
Speaker 1: I can't listen to this right now. Right.
Speaker 3: It is funny how there's a part of at least
Speaker 3: for me, there's a part of me that's sometimes I'm.
Speaker 2: Like I want to live in this emotion, and then
Speaker 2: other times I'm like, oh God.
Speaker 4: No, please, I gotta avoid it with all costs. So
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, Taylor saw Swiss.
Speaker 3: So one of the things we're going to talk about
Speaker 3: as well is something I know some of us have
Speaker 3: heard about.
Speaker 2: Can you die from heartbreak?
Speaker 3: And in my family, my grandfather died a month after
Speaker 3: my grandmother, and we often say it was heartbreak. I
Speaker 3: don't know that that I probably wasn't that, but he
Speaker 3: was devastated when she died, and I think he just
Speaker 3: kind of, I don't know if lost the will to live,
Speaker 3: but it became much harder for him.
Speaker 4: Right, it seems that's a swift decline. Mm hmmm when
Speaker 4: it's like that with my grandparents or the same thing. I
Speaker 4: don't think it was. But maybe it's more so in
Speaker 4: our head. But it feels like it's a heartbreak about
Speaker 4: whatever situation has happened.
Speaker 3: In our past episode on emotional labor, we talked a
Speaker 3: bit about the stats around male widowers who have a
Speaker 3: higher mortality rate than female widowers. We've also done episodes
Speaker 3: on how to deal with heartbreak. Here's some bad examples
Speaker 3: are revenge body not so bad example, I guess is
Speaker 3: post breakup haircut.
Speaker 2: It can be bad, it could be good.
Speaker 1: The bangs, Yeah, wouldn't get id.
Speaker 3: Get even after I'd done that episode, I knew the
Speaker 3: traps and the pitfalls, and I did it.
Speaker 2: Anyway, have you.
Speaker 4: Done something like that, not necessarily haircuts? I think I've
Speaker 4: definitely done, like I need to get in shape.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all those things.
Speaker 4: I do the crying a little bit, but I'm also
Speaker 4: a little more motivated, and I'm like, I gotta do
Speaker 4: anything but sit here.
Speaker 1: And think about it. Right, that's kind of that. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna volunteer for this. I gotta do that.
Speaker 1: I gotta do this.
Speaker 4: And then at night, I'm just like, I gotta find
Speaker 4: a way to sleep. Where's my melotonin? I gotta hug
Speaker 4: my dog. I gotta watch the same reruns, which is
Speaker 4: not unusual for men.
Speaker 2: The other day, I guess.
Speaker 3: I have my infamous story around the office of accidentally
Speaker 3: ordering seventy five cookies in my like.
Speaker 2: Throes of the post breakup. The worst that got it
Speaker 2: was three am. The cookie lady showed up at the
Speaker 2: door and was like, oh, honey, I know you didn't
Speaker 2: mean to do this.
Speaker 3: I was crying when I answered the door, and then
Speaker 3: I took it was it was storming, and I took
Speaker 3: the box of cookies and destroyed them with the.
Speaker 2: Baseball bat outside.
Speaker 1: Well, that's dramatic.
Speaker 3: It was a Shawshank redemption, but much less like meaningful moment.
Speaker 1: That's dramatic. Were you screaming at the cookie?
Speaker 2: I was like, like scream crying.
Speaker 1: In my head.
Speaker 4: I want to know that you threw a cookie up
Speaker 4: and like it would yell throw a curse at him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the next day I had like the
Speaker 2: grossest fleeting. I didn't do it. I was like, I
Speaker 2: wonder if any of those cookies are salvagable.
Speaker 1: About. I'm not mad at I'm not mad at that.
Speaker 3: And then I have felt a new type of heartbreak
Speaker 3: since my dad died, which is a more kind of
Speaker 3: deep incurable sadness as opposed to for me that that
Speaker 3: post breakup, which is really I think I've been through
Speaker 3: two that were really serious post breakup, like grief, and
Speaker 3: those are more I go through destructive rage and like
Speaker 3: angry crying.
Speaker 2: I guess a lot of that.
Speaker 3: And then I after I loved China, that was a
Speaker 3: really a moment in my life that I would describe
Speaker 3: as heartbreak. And when I walk to work every day,
Speaker 3: there's just smell like a it's like an oil, just
Speaker 3: cooking oil, and it reminds me of China. And every
Speaker 3: day I feel like a pang. And that's been I mean,
Speaker 3: I think twenty ten, twenty eleven years, so what if Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's true, that's true. And I do think a lot
Speaker 3: of people, including myself, we we have kind of these
Speaker 3: markers of post breakup or post pet dying or post
Speaker 3: whatever traumatic thing because there are life changing events, they're
Speaker 3: transformative and you kind of write they're milestones.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like I said, I definitely feel what I do
Speaker 4: is kind of I slip into the motivation mode and
Speaker 4: that might go into you know, post breakup body type
Speaker 4: of situation. I also do lots of different other activities,
Speaker 4: including like I thought myself to sleepless nights, so I
Speaker 4: just sit there and talk about think about, you know,
Speaker 4: what is wrong with me essentially, and then I dig
Speaker 4: deep social background, y'all about analyzing my actual diagnosis, why
Speaker 4: are these blah blah blah blah blah going back to
Speaker 4: my childhood? And then also grief is definitely something that
Speaker 4: brings a whole new heartbreak, a loss or death of
Speaker 4: things that can't be healed without time and support oftentimes,
Speaker 4: and of course it's always going to be there because
Speaker 4: it's a part of losses permanent. So because death is permanent,
Speaker 4: you know, and it sounds really obvious, but because of that,
Speaker 4: there's no backing into everything's going to be fine.
Speaker 1: We could redo this, we could redo that.
Speaker 4: You know, you and I talked about this and our
Speaker 4: death and loss in the Dutiful Daughter episode where there's
Speaker 4: always going to.
Speaker 1: Be a little bit of regret.
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter what it is, it doesn't matter how
Speaker 4: perfect you think your relationship is, and it just is.
Speaker 4: And then Dona is significant. I actually a greeve over
Speaker 4: my dog still Benny, whom I called Bennington Zigler because
Speaker 4: I just have to get a full name. And I
Speaker 4: couldn't sleep in the bed without him, And it took
Speaker 4: me years to even get a new dog, which we
Speaker 4: talked about Peaches, and I'm already like I'm still kind
Speaker 4: of like shaken by the idea. But it was weird
Speaker 4: for me, and I think this has a whole lot
Speaker 4: of different things. But my grandfather died within the same
Speaker 4: year as my dog died, and I think my grandfather
Speaker 4: had to pass away, and then my dog died, and
Speaker 4: I grieved harder about my dog, but I think it
Speaker 4: was just a culmination of all the things that had happened,
Speaker 4: and it just felt even bigger lost on loss, you know.
Speaker 4: And then I felt that way in my career, my job,
Speaker 4: I've worn and lost as in what I believe is failures,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. I think I sometimes confuse
Speaker 4: my failure and anxiety as lost, which is a thing
Speaker 4: to stop. It's really hard to stop grieving over what
Speaker 4: could have been what ifs, But the recovery is faster, hopefully,
Speaker 4: hopefully if you can actually get on right track whatever
Speaker 4: mental health situation you have. But yeah, I think that
Speaker 4: was part of the bigger grieving process that I had
Speaker 4: to go through. It was being heartbroken because I felt
Speaker 4: like I couldn't do or say someone or you know,
Speaker 4: even still like actually just recently happened, because obviously I'm
Speaker 4: in the middle of doing two very different things as
Speaker 4: my job and career, and I reflect on what I
Speaker 4: was doing and I feel like, partially I'm like, did
Speaker 4: I fail if I leave or if I try something new,
Speaker 4: or what is this failure? So it's a weird like
Speaker 4: grieving process for sure, and heartbreaking moments for me to
Speaker 4: think on those things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we've both talked about how I went through
Speaker 3: a sense of heartbreak for like my younger self and
Speaker 3: feeling like she was a little sister that died, and
Speaker 3: that was kind of a pretty big grieving process.
Speaker 2: And through this show we've had to deal with that.
Speaker 3: I think for me that was one of the first
Speaker 3: times I've like directly acknowledged it and dealt with it.
Speaker 1: But it was It's pretty serious.
Speaker 3: And I mean a lot of the things we're talking
Speaker 3: about clearly heartbreak has major impact.
Speaker 4: Is so powerful, dictakes a lot of our decisions, it does.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like fear, fear of heartbreak is
Speaker 3: such a motivator for so many people.
Speaker 4: If you have rejection, that definitely that kept me so
Speaker 4: I I'm going to talk about a little later, but
Speaker 4: that kept me from even trying to get into a
Speaker 4: relationship right still still, yeah, it's it's scary.
Speaker 3: So one of the things we like to do, of course,
Speaker 3: is our definitions. And as we said, we are going
Speaker 3: to be talking a lot about breakup heartbreak. But you know,
Speaker 3: there are all kinds of heartbreak. I remember having a
Speaker 3: like round table with the women. This was before you
Speaker 3: worked here, Smitha, but after Donald Trump was elected and
Speaker 3: the women in this office, and like experiencing joint heartbreak.
Speaker 3: Because we can experience like political heartbreak, loss of a
Speaker 3: loved one, loss of pet, loss of agency, traumatic injury.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of.
Speaker 3: Things that will give you this kind of like heart
Speaker 3: pain that we're talking about, that steep de Yeah. According
Speaker 3: to behavioral psychologist Joe Hemmings, heartbreak is a quote stage
Speaker 3: of devastating emotional loss. While different for all of us,
Speaker 3: the intense feelings of sadness, grief, and the overwhelming sense
Speaker 3: of never being able to get past the pain are common.
Speaker 3: And if we look at the brain, breakups trigger the
Speaker 3: same area as physical pain, and they induce the same
Speaker 3: symptoms as drug withdraw and not like drug withdraw light,
Speaker 3: I think like medium drug withdraw. This is part of
Speaker 3: the reason we fill the need to send ill advised
Speaker 3: like night text to our scroll through our ex's Instagram.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do that? Oh I no way, Mmm, I'm
Speaker 1: a little weird with that. So we all go through heartbreak.
Speaker 4: Yet's just say that heartbreak is universal and on average,
Speaker 4: by the age of thirty, most of us will have
Speaker 4: experienced three breakups, with one of them significantly impacting our
Speaker 4: quality of life for a period of time, and the
Speaker 4: number one reason report for breakups lack of communication.
Speaker 3: No surprise to me, and Some symptoms of heartbreak include isolation,
Speaker 3: isolating yourself, numbness, volatile emotions, unhealthy eating, working all the
Speaker 3: time or inability to work, substance abuse, lack of sleep,
Speaker 3: just these feelings of being unlovable, damaged, deeply unworthy, like
Speaker 3: you'll never find happiness again. A study conducted by Christine
Speaker 3: Tompkins out of University of Rochester put forth that broken
Speaker 3: heart syndrome aka stress induced heart failure is a real thing.
Speaker 3: This is also called stress induced cardiomyopathy or Takosubo cardiomyopathy.
Speaker 3: Takasubo is a name for octovius traps that look like
Speaker 3: broken hearts. Women are more likely to experience sharp heart
Speaker 3: pains in response to emotional pain.
Speaker 4: Further science has found links between mental health, depression, and
Speaker 4: heart disease. Broken heart syndrome presents very similar to a
Speaker 4: heart attack, shortness of breath, chest pains minus the blocked arteries.
Speaker 4: What's happening is a part of your heart enlarges and
Speaker 4: kind of falls down on the job when it comes
Speaker 4: to pumping. But it usually only lasts a couple of weeks,
Speaker 4: and it is treatable.
Speaker 3: Yes, and I did want to put in here just
Speaker 3: as a kind of joking, kind of serious aside, there
Speaker 3: are some benefits start break. I mean the main one
Speaker 3: is you learn a lesson, right, hopefully you learn something.
Speaker 3: Are you appreciate somebody, you know. But for me, I
Speaker 3: never put on real clothes, you know, eat cookies or
Speaker 3: cheese or my case apparently fun shashetos all day, every day,
Speaker 3: watching the same movies over and over again with no
Speaker 3: judgment my friends. As I said, watch How to Train
Speaker 3: Your Dragon with me probably three times in a row recently.
Speaker 3: And obviously these aren't healthy in the long run. These
Speaker 3: aren't healthy habits to build.
Speaker 2: But while you're in the throes of grief, I would
Speaker 2: say acceptable.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I usually give people a time frame.
Speaker 2: Yeah you do.
Speaker 1: I do. If you're going through a recent divorce, I'll
Speaker 1: give you a year.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'll give you a year because it's a lot
Speaker 4: of like up and down.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, honestly, it's just like trying to figure who you
Speaker 4: are again without that person, longtime relationship, probably the same thing.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you a very long time. But then
Speaker 1: at one point I'm.
Speaker 4: Gonna be like, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna I
Speaker 4: do this for myself. I think I do a shorter
Speaker 4: time frame for myself because I'm like, this is ridiculous,
Speaker 4: get over it. But I'm like, okay, we gotta do
Speaker 4: at least these things. But for now, we can dictate
Speaker 4: exactly what you need, like you can tell me exactly
Speaker 4: what you need, whether it's me coming in there and
Speaker 4: just sitting with you in the dark, me leaving you
Speaker 4: alone for a small amount of time. I'm not gonna
Speaker 4: leave you alone too often because I have to check
Speaker 4: and make sure you're okay. And then when it comes
Speaker 4: to all right, maybe it's time for therapy, you know,
Speaker 4: like rich, we all should do anyway, But it's definitely
Speaker 4: some of those I'm like, all right, yes, you need time,
Speaker 4: you need mourning for sure, but I'm gonna be the
Speaker 4: friend that's gonna be there for you.
Speaker 1: And if that means tough love, I got it.
Speaker 2: Yes you do.
Speaker 3: And again we've talked about this a lot of times,
Speaker 3: but people experience grief in different ways, and it's like
Speaker 3: not linear.
Speaker 2: So one day you'll be oh, I'm fine, it's finally over,
Speaker 2: and then the next day, oh my god, it's never
Speaker 2: gonna end. Lots of ups and downs, and people do
Speaker 2: experience it in a lot of different ways and a
Speaker 2: lot of different timeframes. So you you have the best.
Speaker 3: Knowledge of what you need, and you know, grief is
Speaker 3: a it's a mysterious thing. So it's hard to it's
Speaker 3: hard to look at yourself and say, I think I'll
Speaker 3: be fine.
Speaker 2: Give him this it is it is. Put that on
Speaker 2: a pillow and melt it was.
Speaker 3: Please just saying, you know, Samantha and I are very motivated,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure a lot of you listeners are, but
Speaker 3: sometimes time is the only thing right, right. But we
Speaker 3: do have some other things we would like to talk about,
Speaker 3: but first we have a quick break forward from our sponsor,
Speaker 3: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So we did want
Speaker 3: to talk about gender differences, because there are some gender
Speaker 3: differences when it comes to heartbreak. I bet a lot
Speaker 3: of you would guess that women have it worse, or
Speaker 3: at least they're more open with it.
Speaker 1: I guess open. Maybe they have all the fields more fields.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we all know the stereotype of women. I've
Speaker 2: already said that this is a benefit of the breakup
Speaker 2: in your pjs, down in jugs of ice cream, through
Speaker 2: the tears. And there is actually science about this, and
Speaker 2: a science is a little mixed. Yeah, people are complicated.
Speaker 4: People are complicated, and I wonder how much of it's
Speaker 4: too because if you look at religious aspects a lot
Speaker 4: of the blame goes on women about something like relationships,
Speaker 4: marriage is falling, and the responsibilities they have within a
Speaker 4: marriage and keeping a marriage happy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know that, that whole thing of like
Speaker 3: blaming women for men cheating because you clearly weren't keeping
Speaker 3: him satisfied.
Speaker 1: Keep it together.
Speaker 4: You have to be fed, like actual books about from
Speaker 4: written by women in order to get husbands.
Speaker 2: What is that called operation hot?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: I not good? Yeah.
Speaker 4: Actually, the book Passion and Purity, written by Elizabeth Elliott
Speaker 4: a long long time ago, was a big, huge thing.
Speaker 4: I actually read it, really dug into it, really just
Speaker 4: put myself all up in there. And it's not awful.
Speaker 4: There's not like it's not awful awful sentiments. Well, actually
Speaker 4: yeah there is if we have. It's been a while
Speaker 4: since I've read it. I guess the whole idea of
Speaker 4: black purity in itself, which if we talked about as
Speaker 4: of recent ti, the purity tests and the purity rings
Speaker 4: are kind of gross in itself. I'm kind of actually
Speaker 4: gross in itself. Two, if you want to be a virgin,
Speaker 4: if you want to save yourself, however you want to
Speaker 4: claim it, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 4: You do you, But to have this whole stipulation and
Speaker 4: this title is absurd in itself, but and especially placing
Speaker 4: it on young girls as their responsibility. But the same
Speaker 4: author would go around and talk about how if you're
Speaker 4: not keeping your body fit, you're dishonoring your husband.
Speaker 1: It was this whole thing, and I was like, what the.
Speaker 2: Hell, Yeah, what the hell?
Speaker 1: Indeed, right, and it's similar like that.
Speaker 4: I think that has a lot to do with And
Speaker 4: I know, again I'm getting off track because we're talking
Speaker 4: about heartbreak. But that level of responsibility being placed on
Speaker 4: women and females in general to say this may have
Speaker 4: been your fault as to why he cheated, or may
Speaker 4: have been your fault as so why you manage it
Speaker 4: and last, it's just really absurd.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're so ready to take it on anyway.
Speaker 3: It's like we're probably.
Speaker 2: Gonna take that.
Speaker 3: A twenty fourteen study from a UK dating site found
Speaker 3: that men actually reported higher rates of love sickness and
Speaker 3: sadness after a breakup, even given that it wasn't quote
Speaker 3: true love that was the main difference. Men felt heartbreak
Speaker 3: in more situations as compared to women.
Speaker 2: The severity was kind of the same.
Speaker 3: When interviewed about this finding, a psychologist suggested it may
Speaker 3: be because men overestimate women's interests and it therefore hurts
Speaker 3: more when women don't reciprocate their affections. And yeah, that's
Speaker 3: very heterosexual, although I guess bisexual it could be.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The study also found that men are more likely to
Speaker 3: engage in casual sex post breakup, while women are more
Speaker 3: likely to dive into work party too hard comfort eat
Speaker 3: That sounds familiar.
Speaker 1: A different study found the exact opposite.
Speaker 4: It concluded that women feel the pain of breakups longer
Speaker 4: and that new relationships don't necessarily help. The study also
Speaker 4: found as the number of breakups went up, women's overall
Speaker 4: mental health went down in a way that men's didn't. However,
Speaker 4: it did find that single women's mental health was higher
Speaker 4: than men's mental health.
Speaker 1: Oh, I like that.
Speaker 3: Women also reported feeling more physical pain. The study authors
Speaker 3: who came to that conclusion thought that this had to
Speaker 3: do with the fact that women do to the general
Speaker 3: fact that we could get pregnant invest more in relationships.
Speaker 3: This potential biological investment has made women choosier over time,
Speaker 3: which means the loss of a quote high quality mate
Speaker 3: hurts more. The same study found that women come out
Speaker 3: on the other side as emotionally stronger and recover better
Speaker 3: compared to men. Multiple studies have found that both men
Speaker 3: and women find self esteem within relationships, so it makes
Speaker 3: sense that after relationships end, it's a hit to our
Speaker 3: self esteem. We feel a loss of identity. However, this
Speaker 3: self esteem has arrived at differently. Women get it through connection,
Speaker 3: while men get it through social status. Generally, in general terms,
Speaker 3: because of these basic differences, men and women do typically
Speaker 3: experience heartbreak differently. Men are more likely to get active
Speaker 3: in some way, while women are more likely to reach
Speaker 3: out to their support group. Because in a lot of societies,
Speaker 3: women are allowed to be more open when it comes
Speaker 3: to emotions, women may actually move on from breakups more
Speaker 3: quickly than men, and this is one of the many
Speaker 3: ways society influences how we grieve. Right, But this made
Speaker 3: me think about what happens when you don't want to
Speaker 3: be in relationship, and this comes up in my therapy
Speaker 3: not infrequently, right, because it does make me feel sometimes
Speaker 3: like I have no self worth since people are always
Speaker 3: sort of like where you're incomplete, you're missing something. I
Speaker 3: feel like society sees me generally as a waste. It's
Speaker 3: made me do things I haven't wanted to do and
Speaker 3: try to fit in I don't want to fit into.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I was the same way. I felt
Speaker 4: abnormal because I didn't get into too many relationships either,
Speaker 4: as in, do I have a mental block as to
Speaker 4: why I'm not looking as hard as others or why
Speaker 4: I don't feel like I need to.
Speaker 1: I never actually dated in high school, and I actually
Speaker 1: didn't date in college either.
Speaker 4: I think I went on the total of three dates,
Speaker 4: and I didn't have any relationships within I think we
Speaker 4: had like bitterly kiddish relationships, you know, he's my boyfriend.
Speaker 1: We oriens, you know, in high school or whatever, but
Speaker 1: never actually dated.
Speaker 4: And it wasn't until my mid twenties that I actually
Speaker 4: started to look. And a lot of that had to
Speaker 4: do it being open and feeling like I could be vulnerable,
Speaker 4: and because of some of the trauma that I had experienced,
Speaker 4: it was not possible for me. Of course, I think
Speaker 4: I yearned to be wanted. That is something that's always
Speaker 4: been at the forefront of my thoughts. But that's generally
Speaker 4: in everything, whether it's my job, whether it's friendships that
Speaker 4: someone wants me there essentially and my desirability and my
Speaker 4: fear of rejection stop me.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: I'm very comfortable and being single. I think I said
Speaker 4: that recently, Like that is something that I know, and
Speaker 4: it is easy and I'm cool with it. So to
Speaker 4: get into a relationship is like, do I really want
Speaker 4: to compromise here? This is really worth my time. A
Speaker 4: study from twenty eighteen out of the Journal of Experimental
Speaker 4: Psychology examine the effectiveness of three coping strategies, thinking bad
Speaker 4: thoughts about your ex, accepting your love for your ex,
Speaker 4: or distracting yourself with things that have nothing to do
Speaker 4: with your ex, which I like that option.
Speaker 1: They found that.
Speaker 4: All three help in some way, but a mix of
Speaker 4: these methods provided the most relief. So maybe listening one
Speaker 4: thing you don't like about person, one thing you love,
Speaker 4: and then one thing that has nothing to do with them.
Speaker 4: I think we should practice that more often. The study
Speaker 4: authors propose that removing feelings of love attached with an
Speaker 4: ex is the primary way to move on.
Speaker 1: They call this.
Speaker 5: Love regulation, which I love, I love regulation the term,
Speaker 5: and they also, as always, recommend not making life changing
Speaker 5: decisions during a life changing time.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, don't. It's so tempting because you're like,
Speaker 2: this will takes everything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are moments where I'm like, okay, I'm moving
Speaker 4: out of the country.
Speaker 2: It's time to go to Antarctica. Finally for me. Another
Speaker 2: study found that it takes about three months to get
Speaker 2: it over a break up. Oh, I have taken so
Speaker 2: much longer.
Speaker 1: I can do a year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the year. I mean, it.
Speaker 3: Depends on how long you've been with someone. Obviously, I'm
Speaker 3: sure that's like an average.
Speaker 4: Like you'll always remember that, but still I give you
Speaker 4: a full year before I'm like, okay, because that year
Speaker 4: includes you and you shouldn't. But you probably dating around,
Speaker 4: maybe miscommunicating with people, breaking a few people's hearts, not
Speaker 4: necessarily in that way, like doing noncommittal things with the
Speaker 4: hook ups as such.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, i'll give you that. I'll give you that.
Speaker 4: I'll let you know you're being a dumbass, but i'll
Speaker 4: give you that. I'm not gonna be mad at you
Speaker 4: for it.
Speaker 1: Ah. Yes.
Speaker 4: Then, of course, there are the comparisons between men and
Speaker 4: women in our media when it comes to breakups, how
Speaker 4: women are so sad without a man in their life
Speaker 4: and how men can finally live it up, be free,
Speaker 4: have hookups.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I always thinking of them.
Speaker 3: And I know we did an episode on this forever ago,
Speaker 3: but the coverage of Jennifer Aniston like she's the saddest
Speaker 3: person that's ever existed.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right, And it was always like, well, it
Speaker 4: kind of did start off with a bread put thing. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that whole he left you for Angelina Jolee, who was
Speaker 4: the ultimate sex symbol because you're the girl next door.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, and just like you know, she would date
Speaker 3: somebody and then it would end and she's broken hearted
Speaker 3: by the person she was dating. It's like finally able
Speaker 3: to date all over again. And like, Okay, whatever I
Speaker 3: think jenniferanis, it's just okay.
Speaker 4: But I mean, if you really think on it too,
Speaker 4: in that level, Brad Pitt to me, was even sadder
Speaker 4: because he would have you ever seen the pictures of
Speaker 4: him in different relationships with different couples, how he mimicked
Speaker 4: that style of.
Speaker 2: The girl.
Speaker 1: One of one of those so you're like, and so
Speaker 1: to me, he.
Speaker 4: Was always sadder because he's like he has to have
Speaker 4: a relationship in order to find his identity. So yeah,
Speaker 4: you need to go love that. It's hilarious. So you
Speaker 4: see him with Quinn Talt and you're like what. And
Speaker 4: then you see him with Angela and Joey and Brad
Speaker 4: Pitt and you're like a Brad Pitt Angeline Joey and
Speaker 4: then Jennifer anis or vices Edston.
Speaker 1: But he looks very different and very much like that person.
Speaker 2: Who interested in these pictures. There is a Parks and
Speaker 2: Rec episode about that.
Speaker 3: Yes, I know you've never seen Star Wars and this
Speaker 3: is not the one I would recommend. But in episode two,
Speaker 3: Attack of the Clones, uh padme a ka, Nalie Portman
Speaker 3: has the infamous line.
Speaker 2: Anakin, you're breaking by heart. That's the first thing I
Speaker 2: thought of.
Speaker 1: I love the enthusiasm in that line.
Speaker 2: Oh you gotta do it.
Speaker 1: Delivered it amazing.
Speaker 3: And I mean, if you pick just randomly three pieces
Speaker 3: of media, I bet one of them has to do
Speaker 3: with a broken heart.
Speaker 2: And I in a way, I believe we romanticize heartbreak
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways in our in our media.
Speaker 2: When I was.
Speaker 3: Younger, I wanted to have a love that was so
Speaker 3: powerful that the heartbreak would hurt as much as I
Speaker 3: was seeing on TV or in movies, so I like,
Speaker 3: I had on my binder a poem that the w
Speaker 3: H autumn poem Funeral Blues.
Speaker 2: I was really into the beauty in Greece.
Speaker 3: It's also very emao what we all, well, you and
Speaker 3: I were, And then I kind of I was thinking
Speaker 3: about a bit more and I maybe we what we
Speaker 3: romanticize is self destruction, or maybe it's a nation of
Speaker 3: two things. Of this love that we always see and
Speaker 3: then the self destructive.
Speaker 1: We love broken things though.
Speaker 4: That's kind of why we like shows that have broken
Speaker 4: people in it. So you think of my so called life,
Speaker 4: it's all about broken people like you just love that
Speaker 4: and you want to fix.
Speaker 1: Jared leto real hard, real hard, and.
Speaker 4: The people who seem to get it together, keep it
Speaker 4: together and be happy were the antagonists or the bad
Speaker 4: guys and the suture essentially, so the nerd it was
Speaker 4: kind of like solid, like he was too smart and
Speaker 4: got it together. And then the girl who had the
Speaker 4: family and was a cheerleader was also not the great one.
Speaker 4: When you had all these other things that were happening
Speaker 4: that are more interesting, whether it was a drug overdo
Speaker 4: so or whether it's you know, and it's definitely and
Speaker 4: I say broken people, but.
Speaker 1: It's outcasts as well.
Speaker 4: And that's that level of we're very interested and we
Speaker 4: feel that and we feel oh good, we're not alone hurting.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 3: Oh and speaking of do you have a favorite heartbreak
Speaker 3: breakups song, Samantha.
Speaker 1: So, I have a few.
Speaker 4: So I had several Elliott Smith songs. Of course, yeah,
Speaker 4: I wanted to go down that road death Cab. I
Speaker 4: definitely had a few of those songs up to me.
Speaker 4: I think they had one of the best I Hate
Speaker 4: my Father songs. Oh and it's somewhat upbeat and you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: like one of the and then one of the lyrics
Speaker 4: talking about how his mot father died and the priest
Speaker 4: is talking all these great things about him. He's like,
Speaker 4: you're a bastard in life, you saw You're a bastard,
Speaker 4: and death like it's a great line. And then I'll
Speaker 4: like them trying to send his ashes out and it
Speaker 4: falls back into his eyes.
Speaker 1: He's like, yep, that's right. Thinks that like that level.
Speaker 4: Okay, of course I'm at living things, but even some
Speaker 4: old school drake okay got into my playlist at one point,
Speaker 4: and of course the Jimmy world. There are several several
Speaker 4: songs that I would just angrily sing and then then
Speaker 4: a few like that I would try too, had several
Speaker 4: That was one of my first concerts.
Speaker 1: What about you?
Speaker 3: I think I I have a ton of sad, sad songs,
Speaker 3: but I don't really have too many that I would
Speaker 3: go to after a breakup. But I have songs that
Speaker 3: if I listen to them, I will cry because the
Speaker 3: music is really moving in that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, music is powerful and I think that's why people
Speaker 4: connect so hard with sad songs.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if anyone wants my playlist, I have a playlist
Speaker 3: called Grief and I will share it if anyone wants it.
Speaker 2: But they'll make you cry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know what, if you don't want that,
Speaker 3: we have some advice on how to like not cry,
Speaker 3: not necessarily.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's not true. We have some advice for you.
Speaker 2: But first we have a quick break sponsors and we're back,
Speaker 2: thank you sponsoring. So we do have some advice.
Speaker 3: Even though a lot of you have probably heard this,
Speaker 3: We've all probably heard a lot of the basic ones.
Speaker 2: Right and find a hobby is a big one.
Speaker 3: You've sort of talked about that, exercising, eating well, sleeping
Speaker 3: as best you can, talking out with friends, reading a book, volunteering,
Speaker 3: taking tiny steps to make yourself feel normal again.
Speaker 1: And this is a big one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, A lot of experts recommend on following your ex
Speaker 4: on social media and removing reminders of them from your life.
Speaker 4: Stop all contact if possible.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna.
Speaker 4: I actually just looked up my excess stuff the other
Speaker 4: day because I was in the conversation and we're talking
Speaker 4: about past whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, I wonder what he's doing.
Speaker 4: Not a good idea, No, no, Actually I was kind
Speaker 4: of like, huh, surprise, interesting, interesting, And I think I'm
Speaker 4: in a especially if you're in a really bad place
Speaker 4: and then you talk paying your life to theirs.
Speaker 2: Oh no, don't do that, don't do it. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: still meet up with my ex regularly.
Speaker 1: Thought to me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, to me, like my exes or my pasts, they
Speaker 4: go into the land of nowhere, right, and to me,
Speaker 4: I just disappear. They disappear. I never hear like, of course,
Speaker 4: I'll just talk about stalking. But I would never ever
Speaker 4: ever want to run into them. I never want to
Speaker 4: see them. I'm like, they shouldn't exist. Okay, so coming
Speaker 4: back to me, like you're friends with them. Yeah, it's
Speaker 4: just the opposite, which is healthy, right. I'm yeah, I
Speaker 4: never look at the Well, no, it's not that I
Speaker 4: never do. I'm just not on social media that much
Speaker 4: much anyway, so I just don't.
Speaker 3: Run into that problem that often. But I do see
Speaker 3: him in real life.
Speaker 4: I r L.
Speaker 3: And sometimes it does make me sad, like, you know,
Speaker 3: we used to be so close, and yeah, it feels
Speaker 3: sort of awkward.
Speaker 1: But you think about like you kind of lose friendships too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, you know you got yours, they are gone,
Speaker 3: you got to divide them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just just how life is.
Speaker 3: One big one is doing some introspection. Ask yourself what
Speaker 3: it was that you liked about that person, and if
Speaker 3: you can find those qualities and someone else. This is
Speaker 3: easier to do a bit later in the grieving process.
Speaker 3: But you know, you have those moments of hate that person.
Speaker 3: I hate everything about them, But there was something, hopefully
Speaker 3: that you were attracted to, and maybe that's an unhealthy thing, right,
Speaker 3: Maybe it's a healthy thing, but maybe it's unhealthy. But
Speaker 3: finding out what it was is always, you know, is
Speaker 3: always a learning experience, right, right, you can, you can
Speaker 3: move on and two bigger and better things, okay, and
Speaker 3: then writing about it, making right about it, using it
Speaker 3: to create.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I write a lot more when I'm sad. I
Speaker 1: will say that me too. Allow yourself to feel, be
Speaker 1: honest with yourself.
Speaker 4: And if that's you need to cry a little bit,
Speaker 4: or you have to sit and watch the same movies repeatedly,
Speaker 4: that's fine. If you just want to sit in the
Speaker 4: dart for a couple of days, that's okay too. But eventually, yes,
Speaker 4: you do need to shake it off.
Speaker 2: That's when the Taylor swift comes out.
Speaker 3: Yes, and always good to communicate with the support group
Speaker 3: in your life, right what's going on, so that they
Speaker 3: can help you and provide that support. And of course,
Speaker 3: the unpopular but true time time heals most woods. It
Speaker 3: makes things easier, hopefully hopefully eventually. On that positive note,
Speaker 3: that's what we have to say about heartbreak today. But
Speaker 3: I am really excited to share some listener mail that
Speaker 3: we receive. Yes, Kate wrote, although the most wonderful time
Speaker 3: of the year is over Halloween, as a fellow horror fan,
Speaker 3: I thought I would send you some recommendations just in
Speaker 3: case you need more. Always send recommendations. Yes, one cut
Speaker 3: of the Dead. It is on shutter UK, not sure
Speaker 3: if it is on the US version. It is a
Speaker 3: zombie comedy.
Speaker 2: The first half hour maybe a little confusing, but stick
Speaker 2: with it. It is great to watch with a crowd.
Speaker 3: Also, if you like zombie movies and haven't already seen it,
Speaker 3: Trained Busan is great.
Speaker 1: One of my favorites.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good one. I sobbed at the end.
Speaker 3: Terrified again and on shutter UK. A Spanish language movie
Speaker 3: that I found unsettling, to say the least.
Speaker 2: Knives and Skin.
Speaker 3: I saw this at FrightFest this year, UK horror film festival.
Speaker 3: Isn't strictly horror, but has twin peak vibes and has
Speaker 3: been described as a feminist noir. Ooh yeah, I really
Speaker 3: loved it. Looks like it's not available until December. I
Speaker 3: know you like the superhero genre. In case you also
Speaker 3: like manga, I highly recommend the TV series Attack on Titan,
Speaker 3: a horror fantasy show. I often think about whether the
Speaker 3: horror genre is a feminist genre. Women are always telling
Speaker 3: men there's something out there, there's something wrong, and the
Speaker 3: men are consistently gaslighting them, ignoring their concerns before too long,
Speaker 3: everyone's dead apart from one final girl.
Speaker 2: Maybe the true horror is the patriarchy.
Speaker 3: Horror movies would be over five minutes if people listen
Speaker 3: to Women.
Speaker 4: I love Yeah, you start thinking about all of the
Speaker 4: things that could have been solved, you know why, and
Speaker 4: then you have to be oh, because the movie would
Speaker 4: not be a movie, right.
Speaker 2: We would have no horror movies. What I find interesting
Speaker 2: is that it is mostly men making horror movies, but
Speaker 2: yet they don't seem to learn from what I think
Speaker 2: is the key message of the movie. Listen to Women.
Speaker 3: There are some good podcasts on horror if you are interested.
Speaker 3: Just suggesting a couple She Kills, which explores horror through
Speaker 3: a female lens, and the Evolution of Horror, which explores
Speaker 3: all the different horror genres and how they developed as
Speaker 3: you grew up with the screen franchise. You might be
Speaker 3: interested in this eight minute documentary called Copycat, which suggests
Speaker 3: it may not be as original as everyone thinks.
Speaker 2: Oh, I love all of this. I love the suggestions.
Speaker 2: Please keep those coming.
Speaker 3: And another listener wrote in with some different suggestions. Kim
Speaker 3: wrote after listening to feminist movie Friday, Alien Edition I
Speaker 3: am mailing in. I'm a thirty four year old woman
Speaker 3: who enjoys lots and lots of horrory feminist horror movie plotlines.
Speaker 3: To think about Last House on the Left. This is
Speaker 3: so graphic, trigger warning for rape, etc. Parents Getting Revenge, Texas,
Speaker 3: Chainsaw Massacre, Final Girl survives because she doesn't do stupid stuff.
Speaker 3: Midsummer Hereditary, The Descent, Everything, The Witch, Female Liberation lived deliciously.
Speaker 3: I spin on your Grave, Revenge graphic, questionable, Halloween. Sorry,
Speaker 3: Laurie does everything to survive and kill her nutty brother,
Speaker 3: which makes her badass.
Speaker 2: Who cares if she's a virgin.
Speaker 3: Jennifer's body for that matter, anything Diabo Cody Ever wrote
Speaker 3: for Film Night of the comment Zombie fighting Valley Girls,
Speaker 3: It's can't be but great The Craft Marianne, which is
Speaker 3: new on Netflix. Also, you mentioned Ripley being the start
Speaker 3: of strong female characters like Buffy, but I couldn't help
Speaker 3: but think of Linda Hamilton as Sarah Conner. She was
Speaker 3: one of the baddest of the badasses post Alien. Thanks
Speaker 3: for covering anything horror. I feel like we ladies don't
Speaker 3: get fair representation. Will weigh in on reviews or being
Speaker 3: part of this community. You're welcome and I will happily
Speaker 3: do so always. Kim later followed up with more suggestions
Speaker 3: after Our Monster, our Female Monster episode Misery Gaffy Baits
Speaker 3: obviously the audition certainly Harbor. Perhaps also just considered Asian
Speaker 3: extreme high tension, which is French hand that rocks the cradle,
Speaker 3: single white female swim fan, the crush, that's big genre,
Speaker 3: evil dead. All the women are possessed by demons and
Speaker 3: made to do evil, gross things. This was a choice
Speaker 3: by Rami sam Ramie Sharp Objects. Also the short from
Speaker 3: Tales from the Dark Side movie. Also this movie sucked,
Speaker 3: but it's worth mentioning Knock Knock the neon demon Starry Eyes,
Speaker 3: a woman moves to La trying to get her big break.
Speaker 2: She was willing to do anything.
Speaker 3: She spirals and kills all of her terrible roommates and
Speaker 3: then turns into an alien after totally rotting.
Speaker 2: And falling apart.
Speaker 3: I can't remember this title helped me, lol, I have
Speaker 3: seen that movie.
Speaker 2: I'll get back to you about that.
Speaker 3: What I remember what it is Eyes Without a Face,
Speaker 3: which is a black and white French monster movie. I
Speaker 3: can see this influenced later in other horror movies. So
Speaker 3: if you wanted some suggestions for horror, these listeners got
Speaker 3: you got right.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Ill I've only seen like two of those the bottom list.
Speaker 2: I've seen those. I've seen a lot of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: Well you've got some fun homework today.
Speaker 4: And you and I because she mentioned and they both
Speaker 4: mentioned a lot about like mothers, you know, and I
Speaker 4: talked about that previously. We did some shout outs to
Speaker 4: different podcasts that we want.
Speaker 1: To highlight because they're amazing and led by women or females.
Speaker 4: The Scam Wow, which is super fun Sue and Sue
Speaker 4: and Katie talk about different scams, including and I didn't
Speaker 4: listen to the one the wedding industry and poop Tea,
Speaker 4: and I was like, oh, I like that. And then
Speaker 4: there's also to go with our heartbreak. This is why
Speaker 4: I'm single with Amy and Amy and sometimes Chuck. They
Speaker 4: talk about the good, the bad, and the worst relationships
Speaker 4: all the way from divorces even to boobs.
Speaker 1: You know, I love anything that talks about any of
Speaker 1: those things.
Speaker 3: Well, there you go, listeners, and if you have any
Speaker 3: suggestions for things we should shout out horror movies we
Speaker 3: should be watching our next feminist movie Friday. I know
Speaker 3: there's been some talk of the craft. Please right in.
Speaker 3: You can do so at our email address, which is
Speaker 3: Stuff Media, Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also
Speaker 3: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on
Speaker 3: Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks, as always
Speaker 3: to a super producer, Andrew Howard, you and thanks to
Speaker 3: you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You the protection
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio's house Stuff works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
Speaker 3: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 3: to your favorite shows