Speaker 1: Mute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails and
Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community.
Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on? Welcome back to another wonderful episode
Speaker 2: of soft Rep Radio. I am your host, rad and
Speaker 2: today I have a special guest. But first you know
Speaker 2: what it is. It's time to go visit our merch store.
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Speaker 2: book club, we have soft rep dot Com Forward Slash
Speaker 2: book hyphen Club. If you go there you can check
Speaker 2: out the books from the authors that come on the show,
Speaker 2: as well as others from the operators who run the
Speaker 2: site soft Rep. They put books into this library that
Speaker 2: they think you would enjoy. And my next guest, without
Speaker 2: any further ado, is Joe Muchia who has written a
Speaker 2: book called cry Havoc with the late Tom Greer. Joe
Speaker 2: is a former United States Marine Corps gunnery sergeant, and
Speaker 2: we're going to get into it with him. Welcome to
Speaker 2: the show, Joe.
Speaker 3: Hey, Rad, great to be here, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great to have you. You know, I got
Speaker 2: to drop Cyrus's name, all right, Cyrus Norcross. He is
Speaker 2: one of our guests Navajo Nation journalists. He's like, Rad,
Speaker 2: you got to get Joe on the show and talk
Speaker 2: about as a grenada, right and Operation Urgent Fury and
Speaker 2: now let me piggyback on that real quick, Operation Urgent Fury. Well,
Speaker 2: there was a movie called Heartbreak Ridge that is kind
Speaker 2: of like they're going into Grenada, you know, to go
Speaker 2: into that in Heartbreak Ridge with Clint Eastwood. How close
Speaker 2: to life are you? Like? Clin Eastwood?
Speaker 3: I was probably one of the most easy going gunnery
Speaker 3: sergeants out there, So I would say I was on
Speaker 3: the opposite end of the spectrum.
Speaker 2: Did you show up with a colored shirt? And if
Speaker 2: they didn't, they all had to go do extra pt No.
Speaker 3: Now, my guys were pretty good. I didn't have to
Speaker 3: worry about doing stuff like that. They self policed.
Speaker 2: Were you Can you tell me a little bit about
Speaker 2: what you did as a gunnery sergeant. Was it a
Speaker 2: mos style job. What was that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I first started out in the Corps, I
Speaker 3: was a communicator, and then I moved into the intelligence
Speaker 3: field and I stayed there until I retired.
Speaker 2: Intelligence. So in the military, that's a word that doesn't
Speaker 2: really get used often.
Speaker 3: A little oxymoor on there. But yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit of what intelligence you would
Speaker 2: be dealing with during Operation Urgent Fury, Like, what is
Speaker 2: it that you and your guys were.
Speaker 3: Like, Well, I wasn't there, so I'm well after the
Speaker 3: after the fact. But when I first joined the Corps,
Speaker 3: one of my first NCOs was a grenade a bay
Speaker 3: root bet and so I kind of grew up on
Speaker 3: that lore of the core or where they talked to you.
Speaker 3: You know, they kind of, hey, we're expeditionary. We you know,
Speaker 3: land on islands, we do we storm beaches, we do this,
Speaker 3: we do that. It's the kind of thing you're brought
Speaker 3: up with. And my NCO, a guy named Danny, was
Speaker 3: really good and really smart. He had already been Grenada
Speaker 3: bea route Desert Storm. I came in on the tail
Speaker 3: end of Desert Storm, and he kind of raised me
Speaker 3: as a young devil pup into into something useful for
Speaker 3: the core. But I mean, it's interesting that you asked
Speaker 3: me about intelligence and urgent fury, and that was one
Speaker 3: of the key issues in preparing our forces for going
Speaker 3: into Grenada was the lack of substantial intelligence on the
Speaker 3: ground about what we were facing. So that was a
Speaker 3: big black hole for a lot of the guys going in.
Speaker 3: But but definitely I was not there, but was lucky
Speaker 3: enough to serve with a bunch of folks that were.
Speaker 3: And then eventually taking some college courses, I took a
Speaker 3: creative writing and it became a history. My major. Ended
Speaker 3: up talking to a bunch of rangers who actually jumped
Speaker 3: into Grenada, and that kind of set this age for
Speaker 3: my interest in that operation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually got to interview a friend of mine
Speaker 2: who jumped into Grenada, Howard Max Mullen, Mad Max, Mad Max. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I got to give him a shout out, you know,
Speaker 2: and marchin die rad. What's up doing? Everybody? What's up?
Speaker 2: Mad Max Mullen? Here, I could see you in the
Speaker 2: ranger pit. You want to do combatives, you want to
Speaker 2: go to Grenada, Let's go. You know, he is a
Speaker 2: great guy, and obviously you know who he is.
Speaker 3: Ranger Hall of Famer. Max is actually featured in the
Speaker 3: book in Cry Havoc. Okay, you'll you can read a
Speaker 3: little bit about him in there, but yeah, those guys
Speaker 3: are phenomenal. Max is just a legend.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what's funny with Max is he brings
Speaker 2: his his story and his trials and tribulations of the
Speaker 2: Ranger and being in the army and now out and
Speaker 2: he does war games with us where he's my commanding
Speaker 2: officer for like the last thirteen years, fourteen years of
Speaker 2: these Lion Clause games that we go to with airsoft guns.
Speaker 2: And it's no joke though, right, you know, it's just
Speaker 2: no joke. There's armored personnel carriers, tracked vehicles, there's tanks.
Speaker 2: There's people with like lots of experience of hunting people
Speaker 2: for a living that are getting paid to other people
Speaker 2: for a living out here. So I mean, and Matt
Speaker 2: Max Is usually like all right, Rad, first lieutenant, Rad,
Speaker 2: what's your platoon want to go do? And I'm like this,
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm gonna go with you guys, Let's go
Speaker 2: And it's like let's go fight, right. I love that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're gona learn, you're gonna learn for the
Speaker 3: best and Max is outstanding. He is so good. I
Speaker 3: love that guy. I've known him for a long time.
Speaker 3: Just got to see him in Savannah for the fortieth
Speaker 3: anniversary of Urgent Theory, which is great. Yeah, I love
Speaker 3: that guy is He is phenomenal.
Speaker 2: He's like, rad, you should clear your schedule for April
Speaker 2: and come out to the best Rage of Competition with me.
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, Max, slide into my DMS bro.
Speaker 3: I'm probably actually going to be down there. I've been
Speaker 3: in contact with the coordinators for the BRCO. I'll probably
Speaker 3: doing a signing.
Speaker 2: Down there, So if it happens I might be there,
Speaker 2: then we can at least like give each other a
Speaker 2: high five and say it was nice to meet each
Speaker 2: other in real life. Yeah, Ursus definitely these virtual introductions
Speaker 2: and quick friendships that are made very fast. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is what I want my show to be about.
Speaker 2: Is my listener to hear like, hey, you're just a
Speaker 2: normal dude, like we all are, and uh, we have
Speaker 2: mutual friends and we can have conversation so as a
Speaker 2: marine though as a devil pup, you know, and as
Speaker 2: chesty you know, chesty as your lord and savior in
Speaker 2: the Marine Corps. Right, Okay, so I learned to love
Speaker 2: Chesty even not being a marine. He is my Lord
Speaker 2: and savior of war. I just want you to know that.
Speaker 3: I mean, how could you not?
Speaker 2: How could you not?
Speaker 3: Guys just straight legend. I mean, you know, another another
Speaker 3: more laura of the cores we're brought up on as
Speaker 3: young marines, the legend of Chesty as five Navy crosses.
Speaker 3: I mean, the guy's just again another ledge out there.
Speaker 2: He didn't want to get any hot. He wanted to
Speaker 2: go back down and rank, and then he went right
Speaker 2: back up in rank. You know, it's like, what just
Speaker 2: the Marines polar? Right? It's polar, right, isn't it. So
Speaker 2: any of my listener's Chesty Polar? Yeah, he's He's lore
Speaker 2: of the Marine Corps. So go look up Chesty Polar. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you want to know who we're talking about. And
Speaker 2: then say, why didn't he not get a Medal of
Speaker 2: honor at any point even posthumously?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it's pretty impressive when you see
Speaker 3: that ribbon rack and you see all those Navy crosses
Speaker 3: with the you see the Navy cross ribbon with all
Speaker 3: the stars on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like cluster cluster, cluster, cluster, cluster cluster.
Speaker 3: It's like you'll never see anything like that again in
Speaker 3: your lifetime.
Speaker 2: So no, he's yeah legit, And that's why the Marines
Speaker 2: hold him in such high regard as a marine, because
Speaker 2: he really did what marines need to do, which is
Speaker 2: be the tip of the tip of the blade of
Speaker 2: the spear. I love it. Now. Is your hat? Is
Speaker 2: that like a recon hat with that spade on it?
Speaker 3: No? Actually, it's just a patch of friend of mine
Speaker 3: got made up a while back with the spartan helmet
Speaker 3: and the spade on it.
Speaker 2: Oh, I see, because I know, like the first recon
Speaker 2: out of like what is it Hollywood style side over
Speaker 2: here they have like the spade as their logo. I
Speaker 2: think it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, then I think you know, the marsk and the stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think they us some of that imagery in their
Speaker 3: and their logos.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just trying to give him a shout out that
Speaker 2: I hold me over in Japan. And first, what's up?
Speaker 2: How you do about it? You're so tell me this
Speaker 2: book that you put together called cry Havoc with the
Speaker 2: late Tom Greer. Tell me about Tom Tom.
Speaker 3: I'm sure a lot of your listeners are aware of
Speaker 3: who Tom was. He was at Tora Bora. He wrote
Speaker 3: Kill Bin Laden was probably his most well known book,
Speaker 3: but he wrote a series of fictional books based on
Speaker 3: a character just like himself, New York Times bestseller, Great
Speaker 3: Human Being, Great Patriot. Tom and I overlapped in our research.
Speaker 3: I had originally started working on by myself to write
Speaker 3: a book about Grenada, and Tom was really wanting to
Speaker 3: do the same thing but focus on the ranger missions
Speaker 3: during the operation. And then we started having a lot
Speaker 3: of overlap and talking to the same people, and it
Speaker 3: was kind of like, you mind if I passed this
Speaker 3: information over to a friend of mine who's also writing
Speaker 3: a book, and we cross decked a lot of information,
Speaker 3: and after that we came became friends. And then he
Speaker 3: called me up one day and he said, listen, I
Speaker 3: have cancer. I'm I'm not gonna make it. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: send you all the material I have. He's like, you
Speaker 3: can do what you want with it. So that kicked
Speaker 3: off that and the and the fortieth anniversary approaching really
Speaker 3: kickstarted the effort to get this thing written and published
Speaker 3: in time. So working with Tom at first was great
Speaker 3: because there was a lot of it was very collegial,
Speaker 3: it was very friendly. We just passed in information back
Speaker 3: and forth, and then it was like getting the rug
Speaker 3: pulled out from underneath you with your writing partner, essentially.
Speaker 3: But Tom had sent me his manuscript and it was about,
Speaker 3: I would say, about fifty percent done and needed some work.
Speaker 3: There was great material there, and it's a very large
Speaker 3: cast of characters. I think we included almost one hundred
Speaker 3: Rangers that we had interviewed, not to mention other members
Speaker 3: of like Knights, Doggers and eighty second Airborne guys and
Speaker 3: so there's a nice swath of service members for this.
Speaker 3: But it just covers the Ranger operations during Urgent Fury.
Speaker 3: But we had to whittle it down to focus on several,
Speaker 3: you know, protagonists, like in most books you have a
Speaker 3: single protagonist. Thought I lost it there for a second.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm listening. No, I look frozen. I'm like
Speaker 2: listening though. Here the fireplaces, the fireplaces movement. You got me, bros. Hypnotic.
Speaker 2: I know right, You're like, I'm just listening. I'm I'm
Speaker 2: just putting together Tom Grier's Dalton Fury. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. And I remember he passed. He passed maybe
Speaker 2: like three few years back, right, and uh yeah a
Speaker 2: few years back. Yeah, it was a big deal and
Speaker 2: everyone's talking about going to his funeral. In fact, I
Speaker 2: was in twenty sixteen. I was in London with Hobbitt,
Speaker 2: who was fighting for the Special Forces team with Soft Rep.
Speaker 2: We went, we go over to London and he had
Speaker 2: just said that Dalton Fury had just passed away and
Speaker 2: he was needing to go back to his funeral and everything. Yeah,
Speaker 2: about the same time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he was He was awesome. The stuff he
Speaker 3: had left was really dynamic. He has a certain writing
Speaker 3: style to him, and I tried to match that as
Speaker 3: best I could and then finish finish the work, which
Speaker 3: obviously we're able to do. But again most books have
Speaker 3: a single pre antagonists. We kind of tried to pick
Speaker 3: like a key personality from each one of the Rifle
Speaker 3: Companies and First and Second Ranger Battalion just to carry
Speaker 3: their the stories a little bit. But we bolted on
Speaker 3: a lot of the other stories from a lot of
Speaker 3: the other guys. So, like I said, there's input probably
Speaker 3: from over one hundred veterans into the book. So it's
Speaker 3: and it's very detailed. It's not one of these red
Speaker 3: arrows blue arrows on a map kind of thing from
Speaker 3: a general's point of view. This is from the individual
Speaker 3: rangers point of view. I find that that kind of
Speaker 3: writing is very popular nowadays, especially like with the advent
Speaker 3: of Band of Brothers and books like that that focus
Speaker 3: it from the foxhole view. These guys are like guys
Speaker 3: you've known, especially for your audience, which as a I
Speaker 3: would assume it was a big, significant soft representation in it.
Speaker 3: I guarantee you there's a lot of familiar names into
Speaker 3: in this book that to your listeners and.
Speaker 2: Viewers that they would just love to check it out. Yes,
Speaker 2: and I want them to, so they should go check
Speaker 2: out cry Havoc. And where would we be able to
Speaker 2: go see and find this book? Is it going to
Speaker 2: be something that's on the bookshelf? Is it something that's
Speaker 2: to be like, you know, uh, internet specific for a
Speaker 2: certain website.
Speaker 3: I sell it on my own website and I'll provide
Speaker 3: you the link later on.
Speaker 2: And it's also site right now too.
Speaker 3: What is that I got to pull the r L.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, that's funny. Well you used to do that
Speaker 2: while we're talking it's a week site.
Speaker 3: You know how their URLs are like long and stupid.
Speaker 3: But anyway, I'll provide you the link and then you
Speaker 3: can also order it off of Amazon and Barnes and
Speaker 3: Noble and stuff like that online, so it's available there.
Speaker 2: But if anybody wants a book, leave a review, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, please, And if you buy it from me usually
Speaker 3: I'll sign it for everybody. And if you want an
Speaker 3: inscription in there, I'll throw it in there as well.
Speaker 2: Oh well that's awesome. Well, once we get the link
Speaker 2: from you, we'll have that put up in the notations
Speaker 2: on the website and people will build just like hyper
Speaker 2: click it and then go check out your book, you know,
Speaker 2: if they're on the website. And if you don't have
Speaker 2: the soft reap app already for your phone, go ahead
Speaker 2: and go download the softwarep app and that way you
Speaker 2: can just click on the story, click on software radio
Speaker 2: and then just go right to it with your thumb
Speaker 2: and me use your other handing she's your thumb instead
Speaker 2: of this one, right yeah, instead of this one right yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: That's great, And let's go back to the timeline. How
Speaker 2: old were you when you enlisted?
Speaker 3: I was twenty when I enlisted. By the time I
Speaker 3: got to boot camp, I was twenty one. I was
Speaker 3: in the delayed entry program, so I was one of
Speaker 3: the old guys in my boot camp. Most of the
Speaker 3: guys were seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old. It was me
Speaker 3: and one other guy was twenty one, and we were
Speaker 3: like the We were like the grand grand old men
Speaker 3: of the platoon. But I went in when I was
Speaker 3: twenty one. I graduated in from boot camp in August
Speaker 3: to ninety two, and I retired in February twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: So of twenty twelve, Wow, I've been.
Speaker 3: Out for a little bit, A little older, little paunch here,
Speaker 3: little little slower.
Speaker 2: Gunnery sergeant was the rank you achieved. Yeah, yeah, which
Speaker 2: is a respected rank in the Marine Corps. You know,
Speaker 2: everyone like double pups want to be a gunny sergeant,
Speaker 2: gunnery sergeant.
Speaker 3: Yeah. If I would have stayed in just a little
Speaker 3: bit longer, I probably could have pinned on master starrent.
Speaker 3: But I really at that point in time, I knew
Speaker 3: it was time to go. They wanted me to mostly
Speaker 3: in staff positions at that point, and I really wasn't
Speaker 3: down with that. I wanted to be with the breens either,
Speaker 3: lead and number training them and you know.
Speaker 2: The point above. A master sergeant.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, so gunnery starts an E seven, Master starts
Speaker 3: an E eight, or a first sergeant uh, and then
Speaker 3: a sergeant major or a master gunny starts E nine master.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, if you're a technical skill, like intel is
Speaker 3: a technical skill, you'll go to the master start and
Speaker 3: the master gunnery sargeant route. But if you go to
Speaker 3: administrative or or you know, an infantry, you'll go first
Speaker 3: start and sergeant major route like that. But I was
Speaker 3: on a master startain track because of my mos.
Speaker 2: So is an intelligence mos is that like an O
Speaker 2: three eleven, an O three, O two thirty one, O
Speaker 2: two thirty Just shout out the numbers three those of
Speaker 2: you that wait, what's intelligence is? Yeah, oh two thirty one. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And obviously the Army has a different mos uh number
Speaker 3: alpha alpha numeric numbering system with it, so we're a
Speaker 3: little bit different, just you know, for just four numbers. Well, Marines,
Speaker 3: just keep it simple, Marines. You know, look at the
Speaker 3: Army and the Marines in seventeen seventies. Okay, right, hasn't
Speaker 3: even been the warrior seventeen seventy six, right, Okay, we
Speaker 3: get it. We know when the Marines and everybody were created,
Speaker 3: but they had such insignias throughout time that were so
Speaker 3: close to each other that they had to put the
Speaker 3: guns on the chevrons for the Marines so that they
Speaker 3: had these guns on them that didn't look like the
Speaker 3: army chevrons. Yeah, that was a later development, I think.
Speaker 3: If you want to talk in signey, I think one
Speaker 3: of my favorite one is for the officers dress covers.
Speaker 3: Now they have what's called a quadrifoil on the top
Speaker 3: of it. That was because during that timeframe there were
Speaker 3: Marines sharpshooters up in the riggings of ships, and so
Speaker 3: when they do boarding actions in order that they so
Speaker 3: they wouldn't shoot their own officers accidentally, they could be
Speaker 3: spotted from above with this quadrifoil on the top of
Speaker 3: their cover. So that's one of my favorite that in
Speaker 3: the blood stripes obviously for Marine NCOs and officers as
Speaker 3: it had to Battle of Chappol to pull.
Speaker 2: The chick explain it is that the points on the webbing.
Speaker 2: Is that what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: Now, if you look at the top of the cover,
Speaker 3: the round cover, you'll see it almost looks like a
Speaker 3: cruciform on there. It's a braided cruciform. It's called a quadrifoil.
Speaker 2: Wow, and that's to identify that that's their officers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, during boarding parties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, that's cool to know. They're like they're coming.
Speaker 3: Up either they're boarding or they're repelling borders. It's easy
Speaker 3: for to see if the sharpshooters can look down and go, okay,
Speaker 3: that's one of mine. Don't shoot them in the head,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's crazy. Yeah. And all the little
Speaker 2: things that they had to do just to like make
Speaker 2: themselves the Marines versus confusion with the army, right, because
Speaker 2: it was always you know, a little blending in and
Speaker 2: then now the Army has pinks and greens back in style,
Speaker 2: and then the Marine Corps have like a green jacket.
Speaker 2: It's not your class a's what is that?
Speaker 3: No, that's well, it's it's considered. It's our We call
Speaker 3: them our alphas. It's our alpha service, our service a uniform. Okay,
Speaker 3: it looks somewhat like a green business suit. I think
Speaker 3: the thing that I love about Marine Corps units they
Speaker 3: really haven't changed very much like some of the chevrons
Speaker 3: might have changed or the positioning of things, or this
Speaker 3: and that and the other. But for the most part,
Speaker 3: the marine uniforms have not changed dramatically for quite a
Speaker 3: long time, and I think that's one of the things
Speaker 3: I love about it. I do like the Army's pinks
Speaker 3: and greens. They're based off of World War Two uniform,
Speaker 3: which is very sharp looking, especially if you have it tailored.
Speaker 3: And then any I gotta give a lot of props
Speaker 3: to any of the guys that are in the units
Speaker 3: that have jumped status because you're wearing the Corcoran jump
Speaker 3: boots and they're when they're shined like glass, they look fantastic.
Speaker 3: So we had to those guys. They look great, dynamite
Speaker 3: looking uniform when it's done right.
Speaker 2: You know, I grew up with those boots on my
Speaker 2: dad's feet my entire life, and I just was a
Speaker 2: normal thing, you know, pants bloused and tucked into boots.
Speaker 2: We'd go to these like little assemblies where he had
Speaker 2: a dress up and all these guys come over and
Speaker 2: shake his hand and it's like, why are you guys
Speaker 2: bothering my dad so much? Man? Can we just Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's the green beret bro in boots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, gotta wear them gotta wear it right too?
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I had my own for a long time.
Speaker 2: He got them from me for Christmas, like in my twenties,
Speaker 2: and I would try to shine him, you know, and
Speaker 2: just ar them as like a punk rock kid. So
Speaker 2: so Dad.
Speaker 3: I love to place him with Doc Martin's later on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And I saw some really nice brown boots, right,
Speaker 2: these cochranes that they're wearing with those pinks and greens,
Speaker 2: they're like this nice brown. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Have you shined them with this polish it's called cordivon.
Speaker 3: They had this really nice deep brown color to them.
Speaker 3: They're really good looking.
Speaker 2: Oh it really does look good. Yeah, I just I
Speaker 2: was just looking at that earlier today. How crazy? Now,
Speaker 2: what are you doing to stay sane? Is it writing
Speaker 2: a book? Are you doing some kind of hobby? Are
Speaker 2: you your own business owner as a veteran? What did
Speaker 2: you do to transition from the Marines with your intelligence
Speaker 2: knowledge and everything? I see you wrote a book we're
Speaker 2: all talking about it. Is that your goal? Now?
Speaker 3: I still work for the government. I got a few
Speaker 3: more years left to go to retire again. But they
Speaker 3: allow me to have my side hustle, and that's that's
Speaker 3: writ in books. So I have an LLC built, and
Speaker 3: I do battlefield tours in Europe. I do some World
Speaker 3: War II battlefields, which is I do pretty good, one
Speaker 3: or two tours a year, which is nice. It's nice
Speaker 3: to get out and do that. And I'm working on
Speaker 3: a couple more books, actually a companion book for cry Havoc.
Speaker 3: It's called Old Scrolls. I am interviewing rangers that pre
Speaker 3: dated Urgent Fury, so from like the reformation of the
Speaker 3: two Battalions in seventy four, and I'm actually overlapping urgent
Speaker 3: theory to about eighty four. I'm stopping short of the
Speaker 3: formation of the modern Regiment and the third Battalion. So
Speaker 3: I just want to get those because these fellas, I
Speaker 3: think they've been from what I've been talking to, the
Speaker 3: guys I've been talking to, they've been waiting for a
Speaker 3: long time to have that story told. And these are
Speaker 3: some there's a lot of I would call them ranger legends.
Speaker 3: They would probably not like being called legends that were
Speaker 3: involved in those startups of both the first and second
Speaker 3: Ranger Battalion. And these guys have some nominal stories and
Speaker 3: I think that the I think not only will rangers
Speaker 3: enjoy these stories, but just folks that enjoy military history
Speaker 3: will enjoy them because, frankly, some of them might find
Speaker 3: them completely outlandish and fantastic considering what has become the
Speaker 3: standard nowadays in the military versus what the standard was
Speaker 3: back then. And I don't mean it there was a
Speaker 3: degradation and standard. I mean some of the things they
Speaker 3: just they did was they were wild, wild, and those
Speaker 3: stories need to be brought brought forward. And I think
Speaker 3: it's a it'll be a fine tribute to those guys,
Speaker 3: because not only will I there's a lot of these
Speaker 3: fantastic stories like oh my god, I can't believe they
Speaker 3: did that, but there's a lot of how the battalions
Speaker 3: were formed, what their initial missions were, and then as
Speaker 3: the battalions developed and evolved, they became more of a
Speaker 3: special operations force where they started doing raids and airfield
Speaker 3: seizures and things like that, which when they first stood.
Speaker 3: The battalions back up, they're more like the as General Abrams,
Speaker 3: who wrote they called the Abrams Charter, stated they were
Speaker 3: going to be the finest light infantry unit in the world.
Speaker 3: Were they morphed, they still are some of the best
Speaker 3: light infantrymen on the planet, but now they've morphed into
Speaker 3: more of a special operations force. And this covers this period,
Speaker 3: covers that build up, that change, that evolution, and shows
Speaker 3: changes in tactics and uniforms and equipment and weapons. So
Speaker 3: I think military history buffs and history buffs in general
Speaker 3: will probably probably enjoy it, and it'll make a nice
Speaker 3: companion book to go with. Cry Havoc.
Speaker 2: Are you going to go after guys as far back
Speaker 2: as like any living lurps that are still around? Is
Speaker 2: that what you're looking for? Guys that had been in
Speaker 2: the muck.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, the fantastic thing about that period
Speaker 3: of time, especially in that into seventy four, there were
Speaker 3: so many guys left who were part of those lurp
Speaker 3: units or part of Special Forces A teams where there
Speaker 3: were the lerps became the rangers. Later on in Vietnam
Speaker 3: were still a lot of those guys in the ranks,
Speaker 3: and when the two battalions stood up, a lot of
Speaker 3: them came to them. So, yeah, there's gonna be a
Speaker 3: lot of that. How that the Vietnam experience influenced the training,
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's it is.
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
Speaker 3: Some of these stories. Yeah, there's it's amazing like talking
Speaker 3: about legends, like like Donald Purdy. I mean, there are
Speaker 3: so many ranger legends in this thing that I think,
Speaker 3: especially like folks who like to read about special operations
Speaker 3: for US are really going to enjoy this.
Speaker 2: Well. As a young man myself growing up in an
Speaker 2: SF household, I had a book and it was called
Speaker 2: Lurps Okay, and I was in my bathroom and I
Speaker 2: didn't have a phone, and so here's little Aaron flipping
Speaker 2: pages through the LURP book reading about like and there
Speaker 2: we were. It's been two weeks and we've only had
Speaker 2: three days of rations with us, and you know, we're
Speaker 2: just out there in the darkest jungle spots behind enemy lines.
Speaker 2: Alert stands for I believe, long range reconnaissance patrol or
Speaker 2: yep right.
Speaker 3: Yep correct. Yeah. You know, as a young marine, when
Speaker 3: I was stationed like a twenty nine Palms and then
Speaker 3: I went to Campa June, you could walk into any
Speaker 3: quick Mart on base, so you could walk into the
Speaker 3: exchange and they have racks of these paperbacks. And it
Speaker 3: seemed like every soldier who had served as ALERP or
Speaker 3: a ranger was writing books at that time, and you
Speaker 3: could literally because we didn't have these things. No, you
Speaker 3: could literally have your own portable entertainment throw in your
Speaker 3: cargo pocket. Like two or three of these paperbacks and
Speaker 3: my favorites were written by a man that I'm very
Speaker 3: happy to have contact with on Facebook, guy named Gary Linderer,
Speaker 3: who really spearheaded a lot of that and he served
Speaker 3: in f Company fifty eight Lerps and then it went
Speaker 3: on to the rangers when the unit transformed. But I
Speaker 3: think Gary was a catalyst for a lot of his
Speaker 3: fellow lurps and rangers to write these books. And like
Speaker 3: I said, to carry two or three of them around
Speaker 3: my cargo pocket. You know, if we rucksack flop, just
Speaker 3: sit there, pull out your books, start reading. Wait until
Speaker 3: you move.
Speaker 2: Out outside yourself and read somebody else's thoughts and see
Speaker 2: what they went through, you know. Yeah, these So I
Speaker 2: also read a command manual all the time. I had
Speaker 2: a Green Beret how to run an eighteen manual in
Speaker 2: my bathroom and alert book that was up. So you
Speaker 2: see kind of what was influenced in my life, right sure?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean my dad's a Vietnam ERAVET, so
Speaker 3: I know I get it. I completely get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and let's talk about that parachute that you have
Speaker 2: behind you. That's from where? What year is that?
Speaker 3: That's in nineteen forty four. It's a swath of a
Speaker 3: nineteen forty four dated parachute. I was blessed for your
Speaker 3: listeners who met a band of brothers. When I was
Speaker 3: in Kuwait getting ready to go over the border into
Speaker 3: Irock and O three, I started writing veterans of easy Company,
Speaker 3: the band of Brothers, and the first veteran I wrote
Speaker 3: was was Dick Winners. So I have a great affinity
Speaker 3: I grew when I once I came back and I
Speaker 3: left active duty, I became friends with a lot of
Speaker 3: these guys. Some of your listeners will probably recommen the IZ, say,
Speaker 3: like Buck Compton, Bill Garnier, and it was guys from
Speaker 3: the mini series. A lot of the more well known
Speaker 3: ones I knew them. I knew a lot of the
Speaker 3: lesser known ones as well. But anyway, I collected a
Speaker 3: bunch of stuff over the years, and that that swath
Speaker 3: of nineteen forty four dated shoot is one.
Speaker 2: Of them from Dick Winters.
Speaker 3: No, this isn't from Dick. This is it's just a
Speaker 3: forty four dated Swath.
Speaker 2: Sure no, I was just like, wait, wait, wait, no, Dick, No,
Speaker 2: that's Major Winters right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually do have a piece of Bill Garnier's
Speaker 3: reserve shoot from the Normandy Drop.
Speaker 2: Oh. So when you go over to these places, how
Speaker 2: how did you wind up being that.
Speaker 3: Guy oh leading the tours?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you go to Guarantee and like all of those
Speaker 2: types of places. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So so my wife when I got when I got
Speaker 3: back and I left active duty, my wife wanted me
Speaker 3: to get a hobby, basically because I was driving crazy
Speaker 3: and a buddy of mine had done Civil War reenacting,
Speaker 3: which I really had no interest in doing. You dress
Speaker 3: up and we'll you march around for a little while,
Speaker 3: you fire one shot and you fall down. You lay
Speaker 3: around in a field for three hours sweating. I say,
Speaker 3: I don't really want to do that, and another buddy's like,
Speaker 3: well you could do you know, you could do World
Speaker 3: War Two? And I said, wow, Yeah, IVE always had
Speaker 3: an interest in World War Two. So I re enacted
Speaker 3: Easy Company for a number of years and I was
Speaker 3: able to become friends with a lot of these guys,
Speaker 3: and because I was a fellow combat that they would
Speaker 3: open up to me about their experiences. And it just
Speaker 3: started initially just writing down things that they would tell me,
Speaker 3: and then I wouldn't say they became formal interviews. These
Speaker 3: guys are my friends, so we'd sit down over beers
Speaker 3: at a reunion and they would just tell stories and
Speaker 3: I would just remember as much as I could before
Speaker 3: I got foggy brained, and then I would write it
Speaker 3: all down. So I kind of use that as the
Speaker 3: basis to start doing tours. So I do a two
Speaker 3: week tour in September where we start in Normandy. We
Speaker 3: work our way all awaycross Easy Companies Fights through Normandy.
Speaker 3: Then we go to Holland we do the time that
Speaker 3: they were there, the bridge too Far, all that stuff
Speaker 3: down into best Stone. We do all the foxholes around
Speaker 3: the perimeter and tell all the stories there, and then
Speaker 3: we finish up in Burke to god and at the
Speaker 3: Eagle's Nest. So we'd try to Mimi make the path
Speaker 3: all the way through. It's called the Path of Easy
Speaker 3: Company Tour.
Speaker 2: Do you take Bangalore's with you or no? No, Bangalore,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, bring up the bring up the Bangalores said
Speaker 2: Alpha one is not open. I say again, Alpha one
Speaker 2: is not open.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure customs wouldn't let me bring any Bangalores,
Speaker 3: but we do do the beaches, and the beaches are fantastic,
Speaker 3: by the way.
Speaker 2: You know, the closest I've been to Normandy was the
Speaker 2: Isle of Wight on the Southampton coast in England. We
Speaker 2: were there and you can see France from that that
Speaker 2: like base that I was at. I was getting toured
Speaker 2: with some SAS and SBS guys over there. They're like
Speaker 2: rad this right here, you know, seventeen hundreds, you know
Speaker 2: over there, France, Normandy, Isle of Wight, you know, And
Speaker 2: I'm like, bro, this is crazy.
Speaker 3: Yes. And then to go up on like the Point
Speaker 3: to Hawk and then walk through Rudders Rangers going you know,
Speaker 3: the attack on D Day and doing things like that.
Speaker 3: It's a really special place. All of it is special.
Speaker 3: There's always all of it. There's always a special location
Speaker 3: to go to, and there's and because of things like
Speaker 3: saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers and the Pacific
Speaker 3: and then now The Masters of the Air, which is
Speaker 3: the new series that's out too far right, all those
Speaker 3: there's always a location to go and visit and something
Speaker 3: special that occurred and something tangible, so I usually bring
Speaker 3: pictures of like the vets, so we can tell our
Speaker 3: stories and they can actually see the guys that we
Speaker 3: were involved in these actions. But yeah, it's it's a
Speaker 3: great trip. I love doing it every year. I don't,
Speaker 3: like I said, I kind of fell into it a
Speaker 3: little bit of a side hustle. But I love doing it,
Speaker 3: love telling their stories.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was over there and there was a huge
Speaker 2: crew going over to you know, do exactly what you're
Speaker 2: talking about is a bunch of veterans from you know,
Speaker 2: I think that we're still alive going over to see
Speaker 2: it's about three years ago. Yeah. I think they're escorted
Speaker 2: by this author named Jack Carr. I think he went
Speaker 2: with him and did this whole housting over there and
Speaker 2: oh yeah, no, wonderful.
Speaker 3: I know Jack is. I've read his books pretty pretty outstanding,
Speaker 3: great seal.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, right right right, And we'll get
Speaker 2: him on the show. You know, he's in the same
Speaker 2: circle here, so just like you, right, you're on here.
Speaker 2: I've had all these guys come through here. So you're
Speaker 2: a rock star, bro. I just want you to know
Speaker 2: that now. Yeah, it took time to write your stuff out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, I think the guys that I've
Speaker 3: been writing about, they deserve to have their story told.
Speaker 3: I mean, the Ranger community back then and still is
Speaker 3: very insular, so it did take time to build up trust,
Speaker 3: but it was great to get their stories out. And
Speaker 3: now most of the guys are in there, you know,
Speaker 3: somewhere in their fifties to sixties, and and now they're
Speaker 3: kind of happy because they've got kids and grandkids and
Speaker 3: they want them to know, you know, they didn't sit
Speaker 3: on the sidelines. They actually did stuff. So and was
Speaker 3: really proud that they entrusted me with their story. And
Speaker 3: you know, Tom and I did our very best to
Speaker 3: make sure we got it out there the right way.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like a lot of them don't want
Speaker 2: to talk about it. It reminds me of mister Miagi
Speaker 2: and Karate Kid that whole time he's training him and
Speaker 2: then he passes out and he looks and he's like
Speaker 2: medal of honor, mister. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think these guys are like, you know, they're more
Speaker 3: of a like the if you know, you know crowd,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, right, Like when they're amongst themselves,
Speaker 3: they all know the stories and and but I think
Speaker 3: I think it's good for America to see these these
Speaker 3: guys for what they did and understand the hardships they
Speaker 3: were through went through, especially like Grenada. It always, for
Speaker 3: some reason it gets like used like a punchline when
Speaker 3: it comes to talking about our operations. And if if
Speaker 3: people actually knew what these guys went through, they wouldn't
Speaker 3: say that kind of thing, like and although we didn't suffer,
Speaker 3: you know, like casualties like Ewejima or something in Grenada.
Speaker 3: I know a lot of the gold Star families and
Speaker 3: they are they are a very tight knit group because
Speaker 3: there there weren't a lot of casualties, but the ones
Speaker 3: that that did occur hit home and affected so many people.
Speaker 3: I mean you could see when I would talk to
Speaker 3: the rangers, you could see how much they love these
Speaker 3: guys that were killed in action. I mean they were
Speaker 3: It's very tough for them to talk about their brothers
Speaker 3: and to open up to me and allow me and
Speaker 3: Tom to to tell that story. Like I said, I'm
Speaker 3: very very proud of it and honored to be the
Speaker 3: guy that just the vehicle to get get that story told.
Speaker 3: But I mean, these were fantastic people and I'm glad
Speaker 3: people are reading the book too.
Speaker 2: You know, right, and as a conduit of Tom, which
Speaker 2: is what you've helped become, you know, to help put
Speaker 2: his He's like, do what you can with it, right.
Speaker 3: His family has been great, great supporters of the project too,
Speaker 3: and and so yeah, Tom was a great writing partner.
Speaker 3: And I'm I'm and I missed talking to him about
Speaker 3: this stuff.
Speaker 2: And sure, yeah, sorry for your loss of your friend.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for me to you just to let you
Speaker 2: know that. And to his family, our condolences. And you
Speaker 2: know he served and you know, climbed the rinks and
Speaker 2: kicked button you know, thank you for that.
Speaker 3: If I know he'd appreciate it, he's yeah.
Speaker 2: And to his friends, you know, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: friends that listen to this that are all his buddies,
Speaker 2: that are all in the small little circle that I
Speaker 2: seem to to tread water in. Right, My head is
Speaker 2: above water. I'm like, okay, special Forces, Okay, special operations, Okay,
Speaker 2: special assignment, special ed, we're all special together. They got
Speaker 2: no problem with that, you know. So it just goes
Speaker 2: to show that as long as you're just a good person,
Speaker 2: genuine you can talk to anyone and just have a
Speaker 2: good day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I think that's that's definitely a
Speaker 3: thing I think. You know, nowadays there's such a alliance
Speaker 3: on pressing buttons on these things, and people are so
Speaker 3: remote these days. They lost a little bit of social skills.
Speaker 3: So I think that those of us, you know, like yourself,
Speaker 3: that that have an easy rapport, a quick and easy
Speaker 3: rapport with people, tend to build relationships pretty quick. But
Speaker 3: you know, the guys that I've written about and that
Speaker 3: I'm writing about, they didn't have that to as a problem.
Speaker 3: They knew how to talk to each other. And you've
Speaker 3: been around these types of guys when they start ribbing
Speaker 3: each other and the you know, the banter gets gets fast,
Speaker 3: hot and heavy and they and they're ripping each other apart.
Speaker 3: But that's only something that that brothers can do, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, or people who shared the same
Speaker 3: experiences can do.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent agreed, you know, And uh, you know,
Speaker 2: when I found out that Dalton Fury had passed, you know,
Speaker 2: it wasn't someone in my normal name. Now it has.
Speaker 2: You know, I've learned about who he is and Tom
Speaker 2: and everything through over these years. But you know, Travis,
Speaker 2: do you know Travis Kross.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't, unfortunately hop it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So he was a Delta guy, and he was
Speaker 2: also Torbora, you know, and right after Bin Lauden, and
Speaker 2: like they were like we found like the pot still burning,
Speaker 2: you know, and he had gotten into Pakistan and we
Speaker 2: couldn't go and all this kind of stuff. And so
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure your guy was all around that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: The funny thing about Tom was we were I was
Speaker 3: kind of guarded when I when I first got in
Speaker 3: notes from other people about him working on a Grenada project,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I didn't know who he was. And
Speaker 3: then he sent me a copy of Kill Ben Lauden,
Speaker 3: and he goes, if you don't want to work together,
Speaker 3: I'm cool with it. If you do, great regardless. I
Speaker 3: want you to have a copy of this. I think
Speaker 3: you'll enjoy it. I mean, that's just the kind of
Speaker 3: guy he was, right, he would just he didn't have
Speaker 3: to send me a copy of the book. He just
Speaker 3: he could have just and he could have just gone
Speaker 3: on his own and with his connections in the communities,
Speaker 3: written a fine book all by himself. He did not
Speaker 3: need me to do it. But in this case, I
Speaker 3: feel like I'm just finishing up the work he started.
Speaker 3: He needed he knew we needed each other. We needed
Speaker 3: each other. We motivated each other to talk to two
Speaker 3: different people and get in touch with people, to dig
Speaker 3: deeper into the stories to make sure we got the
Speaker 3: details right, you know, like I said, so we did,
Speaker 3: so we would do right by These guys were writing about.
Speaker 2: Do you have something that you can share that is
Speaker 2: just like you know, a detail that you know about,
Speaker 2: some little excerpt out of your book. Do you have
Speaker 2: something you can tell us about like a story?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 3: I think for for me, like with I think that
Speaker 3: the jump sequences to me are the real The jump
Speaker 3: sequence going in is the is the was the hardest
Speaker 3: part to write about because the chalk sequence got thrown
Speaker 3: out of whack and when the AC one thirties were
Speaker 3: doing the wreki of the drop zone, they started taking fire.
Speaker 3: A couple of the planes waved off and the entire
Speaker 3: sequence got through aunt of whack. So there were twelve
Speaker 3: C one thirty slash MC one thirties that were flying
Speaker 3: the ranger force in and by the time the first
Speaker 3: plane dropped its rangers over the drop zone, the entire
Speaker 3: chalk order was out of whack, and putting that whole
Speaker 3: thing together and then writing about rangers on each one
Speaker 3: of those chalks and their individual experiences was probably one
Speaker 3: of the hardest things to do. But I think we
Speaker 3: did a really good job with it because we used
Speaker 3: their words, you know, when they were telling me about
Speaker 3: you know, getting tossed around while they d rigging then
Speaker 3: re rigging, and then you know, you don't get handed
Speaker 3: back your same shoot, your your same harness. So you're
Speaker 3: a small guy. You get a guy who's you know,
Speaker 3: five inches taller than you and twenty pounds heavier than you,
Speaker 3: and you've got to re rig and you know, and
Speaker 3: you're getting your hearing things from the crew chiefs going,
Speaker 3: Rangers are fighting, Rangers are dying, the jump is on,
Speaker 3: and these guys are scrambling to get themselves back back
Speaker 3: together again so they could they can get put out
Speaker 3: over the DZ and in good order. I think that
Speaker 3: I think people are really going to enjoy that reading
Speaker 3: about that because it's very tense. I felt like writing
Speaker 3: My pulse rate was going up when I was writing.
Speaker 2: It, So I think it is.
Speaker 3: I think, tell me, yeah, I think your listeners really
Speaker 3: get a kick out of it again because it's very
Speaker 3: very intimate details of what happened in those planes that
Speaker 3: was largely unknown up until the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: And a chalk for someone who doesn't know what a
Speaker 2: chalk may be listening, right, That is like the group
Speaker 2: of guys or gals that are airborne together standing together
Speaker 2: to jump out together. Right, that's the chalk. That's the
Speaker 2: lineup right.
Speaker 3: Well, it's also the aircraft itself. So if I say
Speaker 3: chalk twelve, that's the aircraft plus the jumpers in that chalk,
Speaker 3: so it counts for both. But yeah, it started with twelve,
Speaker 3: and I had to number them because the Air Force
Speaker 3: had its own numbering system, the rangers had their own
Speaker 3: numbering system, and the MC one thirty crews had their
Speaker 3: own numbering system, so it was all very confusing. So
Speaker 3: I just basically made I'll call it I arbitrarily made
Speaker 3: the decision to number them one through twelve because it
Speaker 3: was just easier for the reader to understand where they
Speaker 3: were supposed to be in line. So oh, and then
Speaker 3: the two battalions had their own numbering system as well.
Speaker 2: So was there jump injuries on that? Did they get
Speaker 2: dragged I don't remember if there were.
Speaker 3: There were a few guys in fact. In fact, next
Speaker 3: time you talk to Max, ask them about Ean Cowfold
Speaker 3: going into the water. Okay, Max will tell you the story.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there was a guy named Harold Hagen broke
Speaker 3: his leg. Sean Powers broke his leg. There were a
Speaker 3: number of guys who suffered jump injuries. And not only that,
Speaker 3: the entire second Battalion didn't jump with reserve shoots. Now
Speaker 3: they have their rucksacks rick below them, but typically what
Speaker 3: happens is when you make your eggs that if the
Speaker 3: ruck flips up a little bit, your reserve tends to
Speaker 3: pad you against it flipping up. Well, second of time
Speaker 3: didn't jump with their reserves, and a lot of guys
Speaker 3: had broken nose or smashed nose and nosebleeds from getting
Speaker 3: hit by their own rucks hitting them as they came
Speaker 3: out of the aircraft. Like my friend doctor Hio came
Speaker 3: out of the aircraft, hit the side of the aircraft
Speaker 3: and it ripped his helmet right off of him, and
Speaker 3: he just when he said, I was knocked senseless. By
Speaker 3: the time I got down to the ground, I was
Speaker 3: wondering where the hell I was. You know all these
Speaker 3: stories are in there. These guys they recover and then
Speaker 3: quickly take the fight to the enemy, and that's the
Speaker 3: that's the best part they did, just like their their
Speaker 3: World War two forefathers did. They hit the ground, got
Speaker 3: themselves together, put their weapons systems in action, and got
Speaker 3: to fight.
Speaker 2: In the enemy and got their bearings and just started
Speaker 2: heading on their do bearings and just moving out. They
Speaker 2: were not I mean, they might have had something technical
Speaker 2: back then, but really that was really like trivium style compasses.
Speaker 2: And you know, I hope you studied the sand table
Speaker 2: before you dropped it into.
Speaker 3: The Yeah, I mean the jump clearing team which didn't
Speaker 3: get to jump first, which is the guys that came
Speaker 3: in right behind him, just started doing that job because
Speaker 3: the Cubans and the Grenadians had cluttered the runway so
Speaker 3: you couldn't land planes on it. So they're pulling light
Speaker 3: towers off and hammer and rebar into the tarmac to
Speaker 3: get it to clear it. Your oil drums and stuff
Speaker 3: all over the place. And these guys just to go
Speaker 3: to work clearing the runway so the subsequent flights can
Speaker 3: come in.
Speaker 2: So was the rangers job to seize air fields at
Speaker 2: the time, was that their their task.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at that time they had been training for that
Speaker 3: particular thing, and it culminated with First Ranger Battalion executing
Speaker 3: an exercise called Demo three, which they did for a
Speaker 3: bunch of VIPs to show that they could clear the runway,
Speaker 3: and then they immediately went off of Ranger Ready Force
Speaker 3: one status and passed it to Second Ranger Battalion. But
Speaker 3: the mission expanded. Originally they thought it was only going
Speaker 3: to be one battalion mission, and then they expanded it too,
Speaker 3: so you had both First and Second going in. Now,
Speaker 3: some of the rosters repaired down for the battalions because
Speaker 3: they had limited aircraft space and they had to basically
Speaker 3: designed a second wave to come in, which they didn't
Speaker 3: really need. A partial second wave came in, but they
Speaker 3: had enough Rangers to accomplish the mission at that point.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, they just they just went in
Speaker 3: and they went and got after it. And that's the
Speaker 3: that's the best part about writing about this is to
Speaker 3: show that the that fighting spirit from World War II
Speaker 3: to Korea to Vietnam to urgent fury, it never let up.
Speaker 3: These guys just they they they had that same fighting
Speaker 3: spirit and at the end of the day, they just
Speaker 3: went after the enemy and accomplished their missions and rescued
Speaker 3: these these medical students.
Speaker 2: Right, that's the it was the hostages, right, they were
Speaker 2: going into rescue the students. They had been taken over
Speaker 2: by like guerrillas and Grenada.
Speaker 3: Like the Grenada military, there was a shoot on site curfew.
Speaker 3: There had been an overthrow of the government, and Reagan
Speaker 3: did not want to have a repeat of the Iran
Speaker 3: hostage situation. So basically, you had an overthrow of a government,
Speaker 3: you had the building of a runway that could service
Speaker 3: long range bombers, and you had a American students that
Speaker 3: could have been taken hostage. So that's basically a three
Speaker 3: for And I don't think Reagan had the appetite to
Speaker 3: sit down and want and wait for that situation to
Speaker 3: work its way out and.
Speaker 2: See what happened. So he just is like, we're going
Speaker 2: to go in. We're not going to let this go
Speaker 2: any further because of what happened. Now. I think Grenada
Speaker 2: was colonized by Britain until like the sixties, and then
Speaker 2: it was maybe released back to its own nations people
Speaker 2: in sixty seven seventy.
Speaker 3: Essentially and then they had the British representative on the islander.
Speaker 3: Island was called the Governor General, and that was a
Speaker 3: guy named Sir Paul Scoon and he was actually the
Speaker 3: focus of another special operations mission on the island. I
Speaker 3: don't cover it in cry Havoc. Cry Havoc is the
Speaker 3: first of several books about the grenade operation. The Governor
Speaker 3: General rescue will be covered in a different book. But yeah,
Speaker 3: that's that's a whole other kettle of fish in terms
Speaker 3: of operations. Yeah, right, right, operations within an operation, you know.
Speaker 2: All the time. Well, like I was talking to like
Speaker 2: even Cyrus right as a ranger, and he said, well,
Speaker 2: we'd go out on a mission and that mission turned
Speaker 2: into second mission, and that second mission turned into third
Speaker 2: mission and that third mission and pretty spin, I did
Speaker 2: fourteen missions in a day.
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, if you did that in Iraq
Speaker 3: and three when I went in, we just called it
Speaker 3: going frag o to frag O to frag go to Frago.
Speaker 3: So you're just getting fragmentary orders to execute an ad
Speaker 3: hoc mission. But you go into your mission planning cycle
Speaker 3: the same way you would for regular mission. It's just
Speaker 3: very truncated and very short compared to your your a
Speaker 3: full length op order that you would.
Speaker 2: Get who'd you go in with in the Marine Corps intelligence,
Speaker 2: But you guys went in and did frags like were
Speaker 2: you guys, you know, combative house to house and you
Speaker 2: were just gathering intel that way.
Speaker 3: So I was I was the assistant intel chief for
Speaker 3: second Marine Regiment. We were the ground combat element and
Speaker 3: for Task Force Tarawa. The big battle we took part
Speaker 3: in that we're probably most well known for is the
Speaker 3: battle in nazarea, you know three. We did a lot
Speaker 3: of intelligence collection and triaging, assessments, and then you write
Speaker 3: reports up. We did have a couple of sporty gun
Speaker 3: fights in there from time to time. Later on, as
Speaker 3: the ground campaign was kind of wearing down, we did
Speaker 3: some house to house work, but that was mostly because
Speaker 3: we were doing security patrols around where wherever our camp was.
Speaker 3: Our position was essentially security patrols to make sure we
Speaker 3: don't get you know, ambush or surprise or anything. But
Speaker 3: we did a lot of intelligence collection and then assessment
Speaker 3: and passed it on to Special Operations Forces for the
Speaker 3: rescue of Jessica Lynch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the private who was contribute to that driver
Speaker 2: that was taken captured in her convoy and uh, that's right,
Speaker 2: that's right. Dang dude, this is crazy. You know. Was
Speaker 2: it biblical over there for you? Did you feel like
Speaker 2: like this is so like this is biblical area because
Speaker 2: you see the stones and like the sandstone and like,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I didn't. I don't know if I had that kind
Speaker 3: of deep thought about it at the time, because I
Speaker 3: was responsible for, you know, about twenty five marines, so
Speaker 3: you kind of you've got your you've got your work
Speaker 3: to do, and then you've got your marines to look after,
Speaker 3: so kind of pre you're preoccupied with that kind of
Speaker 3: stuff most of the time. So I did have an
Speaker 3: appreciation for that, especially when we started getting up near Baghdad.
Speaker 3: We got to go to Babylon, which was right here
Speaker 3: to see this stuff.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I got to see like the original ruins of Babylon,
Speaker 3: which was I mean, it was just yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's it's mind blown when you think about the age
Speaker 3: of that stuff and and the historical it's place in history,
Speaker 3: like the hanging gardens of Babylon and the you know,
Speaker 3: all of that stuff and.
Speaker 2: Well a lot of a lot of what's in these
Speaker 2: Bibles are written from yeah, Babylon and stuff, you know.
Speaker 2: So I'm just like, you know, you're going over there,
Speaker 2: and you know, we grew up I grew up you know,
Speaker 2: in a religious families, so we hear all these you know,
Speaker 2: stories and told all these songs and everything, and then
Speaker 2: it's like marching left right left. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think in the later portions of the campaign, because
Speaker 3: I was only there for f one, you can be
Speaker 3: a little bit more introspective as the as the the
Speaker 3: really dynamic combat starts to wind down and you got
Speaker 3: a little bit more time to take in the surroundings
Speaker 3: and do a little more deep thinking. Yeah, especially like
Speaker 3: I said, up in their Hilla and Babylon was was
Speaker 3: pretty pretty uh surreal real to be there. Yeah, But
Speaker 3: you know, you hear at the land of the Two
Speaker 3: Rivers or the Fertile Crescent and all that, and when
Speaker 3: you get to that land in between the Euphrates River
Speaker 3: and the Tigris River and you see, you know, how
Speaker 3: fertile it is there, and you know, you don't expect
Speaker 3: to see that much green in places and palm trees
Speaker 3: and things like that, and you know, it kind of
Speaker 3: blows your mind a little bit.
Speaker 2: But a little beauty of the land right at, Beauty
Speaker 2: of the land is what you're seeing versus And I was.
Speaker 3: Down South most of the time, and most of those
Speaker 3: folks are just farmers trying to make it day to day.
Speaker 3: So I have real affinity for some of the the
Speaker 3: folks down there. They're all Shia, they're all you know,
Speaker 3: very family focused. They got a chance to talk to
Speaker 3: some of them as as the campaign was winding down,
Speaker 3: and most of them the same thing. They just want
Speaker 3: to raise their families and you know, live in peace
Speaker 3: and not not get blown up and not be oppressed.
Speaker 2: And you know, blown up and oppressed. Who wants that.
Speaker 3: Nobody. Nobody's trying to raise their kids and not be
Speaker 3: in danger. I mean, I thought that was And they're
Speaker 3: just farmers. They're simple people. They don't have a lot
Speaker 3: of you know, don't have a lot of money. Their
Speaker 3: families everything that focus for them.
Speaker 2: So we're at war. I'm just farming my land, bro, Like,
Speaker 2: where'd you come from? What is that?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Space?
Speaker 3: Aliens?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Aliens, dude, that'd be crazy. It's not like you're
Speaker 2: knocking on doors too much. You know, Yeah, can we
Speaker 2: come in. Do you want to hear about our word
Speaker 2: of wisdom? Like how you do it? How you doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, trying not to fear with them too much in
Speaker 3: their their life. You know, we had things to do,
Speaker 3: and we did them, and we tried to you know,
Speaker 3: if they came up to us and wanted to talk
Speaker 3: or you know, we we brought out our turps and
Speaker 3: we chat with them for a little bit and then
Speaker 3: we'd be on our way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy. Well, I'm glad you made it through
Speaker 2: all of that, and I'm glad that you were able
Speaker 2: to get home and to your wife and you know,
Speaker 2: thanks family. You have kids and things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, got two of them. Yeah, they were they're adult now,
Speaker 3: so I don't you know, Dad's not cool to with anymore.
Speaker 2: Before you enlisted, did you did you I mean excuse me,
Speaker 2: did you have when you were enlisted or did you
Speaker 2: have when you got out?
Speaker 3: No, we had them when I when I was still
Speaker 3: in the service.
Speaker 2: So you had to deal with the separation from your family.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I know three my daughter was three years old.
Speaker 3: It was really weird coming back and her not really
Speaker 3: recognizing me at first, But you know, dad was gone
Speaker 3: for a while, and you know, after a while, Yeah,
Speaker 3: she figures it out after a while, you know. And
Speaker 3: then we had our school son a little while a
Speaker 3: little while after that.
Speaker 2: So well, I'm sure that there's others out there who
Speaker 2: are listening who can relate to separation from their loved
Speaker 2: ones to deploy, right, Yeah, whether they're I'm just saying.
Speaker 3: And I'm always gonna plug. If you're having trouble reconcile
Speaker 3: and adjusting, et cetera, you talk to somebody. Talk to
Speaker 3: the guys and gals you were over there with, talk
Speaker 3: to your family. Don't be afraid to unload just because
Speaker 3: they didn't have the same experience as you you did.
Speaker 3: Let them hear you, Let them be there for you,
Speaker 3: and stick around because people want you to stay around.
Speaker 3: The world's better place.
Speaker 2: So in it.
Speaker 3: Don't don't take don't do something drastic that you and
Speaker 3: everybody else will regret.
Speaker 2: Right, it just doesn't work out for the best as
Speaker 2: you might think it would. So we love you. And
Speaker 2: if you have problems out there and you're deciding on
Speaker 2: your life, you want to hit me up on Instagram
Speaker 2: or anything. I've talked to folks all the time and
Speaker 2: how you doing. You know, They're like, hey, Rad, did
Speaker 2: you really mean that? And I'm like, I don't know you,
Speaker 2: but yes, yes, I did mean that.
Speaker 3: There's plenty of outlets to do it too, don't you know.
Speaker 3: Don't feel like you're painting yourself into a box and
Speaker 3: you can't get out of it.
Speaker 2: I think the VA actually has like an eight eight
Speaker 2: eight number now, I believe is what it is, and
Speaker 2: they're pushing that out there. So you know, hey, if
Speaker 2: you needs want to talk to you can hit the VA.
Speaker 2: Someone there probably knows what's going on. Go hang out
Speaker 2: with the canteen or they're smoking, Come up with the
Speaker 2: come up with your own book. There you go.
Speaker 3: I thought, I you know, funny you say that. I thought,
Speaker 3: you know, writing I wrote a lot of my own
Speaker 3: stuff down, not for publishing, but just for one it
Speaker 3: was just good to get it out on the page.
Speaker 3: And two, I've always felt like if something did happen
Speaker 3: to me, there would be a record for my family
Speaker 3: to understand. So sometimes just putting pen to paper, hitting
Speaker 3: the keys provides a little relief.
Speaker 2: So a little dear diary is not a bad thing.
Speaker 3: Find find an outlet, find something that makes you feel good.
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that, and I love you
Speaker 2: and I want you to know that I appreciate you,
Speaker 2: and you spran forward in your smile, and I know
Speaker 2: we just really have met in this last hour of
Speaker 2: our lives. But I just want people to know that
Speaker 2: they can talk to strangers, have positive conversations with one another,
Speaker 2: not get waving flags right this whole tote in your
Speaker 2: flags and stuff. Let's just remember that we all believe
Speaker 2: the same blood on this earth, and we should all
Speaker 2: just be trying to get along so we don't have
Speaker 2: to use the Marines, even though the Marines want to
Speaker 2: get used. I know, I know.
Speaker 3: We want to get out there and do the job.
Speaker 3: That's the thing.
Speaker 2: Oh, I know, Oh I know, and I want you
Speaker 2: to as well. But if it means that you get
Speaker 2: to stay alive and don't have to fight but you're
Speaker 2: ready to fight, I'm good with that too, right because
Speaker 2: all right, Well, I want to say thank you to
Speaker 2: Cyrus for linking me up with you, Joe, and you've
Speaker 2: been a wonderful guest. Yeah, And when you get your
Speaker 2: other book going and you want to come back on
Speaker 2: the show, you're always welcome to, you know, jump onto
Speaker 2: the soft Rep family here and the soft Rep mafia
Speaker 2: as we call it now. Joe Muchiya gunnery sergeant, retired author, father, husband, son,
Speaker 2: you have been an outstanding individual. We'll talk to you today.
Speaker 3: Thanks brother, it's been great.
Speaker 2: It's been really great. Now on behalf of me and
Speaker 2: behalf of Joe. I want to say thank you from
Speaker 2: all of us here at soft Rep and especially to Brandon.
Speaker 2: Thanks for always having me run the show and trusting
Speaker 2: in me. Bro I really appreciate your brother. So fist
Speaker 2: pump to Brandon and get outside of nature. Go out
Speaker 2: and breathe some fresh air. Go for a hike, surround
Speaker 2: yourself with some water around your feet. Go take a
Speaker 2: swim at the local pool. There's nothing like water and
Speaker 2: the surroundings to help clear your thoughts. And I like
Speaker 2: to say thrills before pills, so believe in that. Get
Speaker 2: out and go enjoy yourself and check on your battle
Speaker 2: buddies and your neighbors. And this is rad saying. Check
Speaker 2: out the book club at soft rep dot com.
Speaker 1: Peace, you've been listening to self red Radia