Speaker 1: Welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys We Guys Book. I'm Christina,
Speaker 1: I'm Karren. We're sorry about last night, the anti sluck
Speaker 1: shaming podcast. I never stopped. Hello, fucker's Welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of Guys We Fucked. It's the anti sluck shaming podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Karen. I'm Christina. And this week you might have
Speaker 1: heard we tweeted it out, which is you know, that's
Speaker 1: how information was passed. Yeah, no matter how important. Um,
Speaker 1: the passing of a friend of ours, a mentor, a
Speaker 1: wonderful comedian and a former guest of the Guys We
Speaker 1: Fun Podcast, Kevin Meaney. Uh, he was wonderful. If you
Speaker 1: haven't listened in to his episode, please check it out.
Speaker 1: Probably the funniest comedian I've ever had the privilege of watching.
Speaker 1: We've been saying that for a long time. It's not
Speaker 1: a one of those not just saying he died. He died.
Speaker 1: So he was the nicest person I've ever know. Like,
Speaker 1: he was legitimately the funniest human being I think I've
Speaker 1: ever had the privilege of watching perform. Yeah, he's like, uh,
Speaker 1: there's a saying like you can't follow him if you're
Speaker 1: a comedian and ever he is someone who if I
Speaker 1: ever had to follow this person, I'd be like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm just gonna quit comedy today. There's just
Speaker 1: no point standing ovations. I think he's someone who like
Speaker 1: made an impact on every comedian that he worked with,
Speaker 1: and he was wonderful. He he passed away unfortunately was
Speaker 1: only sixty. But I loved Kevin because that was the
Speaker 1: first comedian that I met that made my mom excited.
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, because if I love some meaning like
Speaker 1: Kevin meany was a part of my life for my
Speaker 1: whole life, and I didn't know it because my he
Speaker 1: has this song I don't Care, I don't care like,
Speaker 1: and my mom would always sing that in the house
Speaker 1: to make fun of me and I, you know, because
Speaker 1: I don't care and you just thought that was about you. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I knew what she was getting it from somewhere. But
Speaker 1: my my family has so many sayings and songs and
Speaker 1: things that they would share that I never knew or
Speaker 1: was coming from. And it kind of came full circle
Speaker 1: when I finally met and had the opportunity to work
Speaker 1: with Kevin, because I was like, holy shit, you're I
Speaker 1: don't think this is that's the guy I've been not
Speaker 1: caring for a lifetime, and I didn't know that it was.
Speaker 1: Did you see them? I think I did because I
Speaker 1: meet That was when we were like Christine and I
Speaker 1: were doing our Brooklyn Winery that he was on and
Speaker 1: I was so honored he said yes to that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because a lot of people think sorry about last night,
Speaker 1: like did not exist before the Guys We podcast, but
Speaker 1: we did. We've been toiling away for a while, been
Speaker 1: working so hard. Yeah, And on our very first show
Speaker 1: that we did at Brooklyn Winery, Kevin Meani was a
Speaker 1: guest on the very first show that was Kevin Meni,
Speaker 1: Hannibal Buris. Yeah, Wow, what a lineup? I'm like, shit,
Speaker 1: how do we get all these people? And it was
Speaker 1: so exciting. People were like driving in from other other
Speaker 1: states to watch the show. My mom made it in
Speaker 1: because this is you know, there's something when like the
Speaker 1: first comedian that impresses your family, like they're kind of
Speaker 1: like not is into what you're into, Like always supportive,
Speaker 1: but like you know, they're not like comedy nerves really
Speaker 1: really love dick jokes, right, And so when I when
Speaker 1: we got Kevin Needi to perform, I was like yes.
Speaker 1: I was like, my mom knows Kevin Meady, my dad
Speaker 1: knows Kevin Medie, my grandparents know Kevin Meadi. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be great and really impress everybody. And
Speaker 1: then he turned out. Yeah. We we ended up working
Speaker 1: together so many times. We Uh Paula. She had some
Speaker 1: like rich Boss who was a member of a country
Speaker 1: club in New Jersey right by Beyonce's New Jersey home actually,
Speaker 1: and and he was like, yeah, my country club really
Speaker 1: wants a dirty comedy night. They just want to They
Speaker 1: want a dirty comedy night. What are you gonna call?
Speaker 1: And what I learned, what I learned after this was
Speaker 1: that when someone says they want they're they're the place
Speaker 1: that they're a member of once a dirty comedy night.
Speaker 1: Sad place doesn't on a dirty comedy That guy wants
Speaker 1: a dirty cocky. I learned that the hard way. He
Speaker 1: wants to watch his relatives and friends. As you tell
Speaker 1: a tale of an lingus. So no I did to pick.
Speaker 1: So it ended up being me, uh, Ryan Rose, Ryan
Speaker 1: Reese hosting, who's also been a show, me featuring, and
Speaker 1: then Kevin Meanye headlining. So we all get into this
Speaker 1: car and we go and as soon you know, and
Speaker 1: it's the country club was great. I mean we're we're
Speaker 1: in there eating shrimp a handful country club and Kevin
Speaker 1: went went crazy on some cocktail shrimp. Like we went
Speaker 1: crazy cocktail shrimp and like martinis we were and that
Speaker 1: ship was all free, right, Yeah, And I love that
Speaker 1: he was like a headliner, a known person, but like
Speaker 1: not too cool to go crazy on the cocktail shrimp.
Speaker 1: That's a good person. That's Kevin, meaning yeah and so
Speaker 1: and so Ryan gets on stage to open the show,
Speaker 1: quote dirty, you know, room full of rich juice. There's
Speaker 1: like you know, there's like schwepts and I don't even
Speaker 1: know she swepts isnesoda Jewish, but there was like swepts
Speaker 1: money in there, because you know sometimes people marry non
Speaker 1: Jews a lot of money in that rest, like brands
Speaker 1: that you know. And so Ryan starts real dirty and
Speaker 1: immediately like we know that it's not this is not
Speaker 1: what they wanted. Was one guy's wish. No one wanted
Speaker 1: a dirty show. So Ryan's goes up it's silence and
Speaker 1: be like, oh what am I gonna say? I'm sitting
Speaker 1: Heven in the back, like freaking out and he's like,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be fine. You're gonna be great, says you,
Speaker 1: Kevin meaning, and so Ryan you know, goes up and
Speaker 1: then he comes back. He's like, Jesus, that was tough.
Speaker 1: I go up bomb for twenty minutes, just like you're
Speaker 1: saying it, saying comfort to silence, you know, dead faces,
Speaker 1: see guys, comedies, a lot of work, and it's a
Speaker 1: lot of ups and downs. And then I feel like
Speaker 1: we've we've trapped everyone. I feel like we are isis
Speaker 1: holding an entire Jewish country club hostage. And then and
Speaker 1: then and Kevin unfazed the entire time. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: been in the business so long, I guess yet at
Speaker 1: some point you just don't don't care. You don't care,
Speaker 1: I don't care. And then and then I'm just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm so embarrassed. I brought someone who
Speaker 1: I loved to headline this show. I was so happy
Speaker 1: that I could book him, and now I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: make his night miserable. Fucking Kevin goes on just like
Speaker 1: make immediately like roasting everyone in the audience, see pussy
Speaker 1: lose their bitches, and they like it. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: not the terminology used, but it was not far from that,
Speaker 1: and goes on to like win over within a matter
Speaker 1: of moments the entire audience, and like rich Jews, not
Speaker 1: an easy Jews, great, but like rich chuffy Jews that's
Speaker 1: hold their friends. Jews as a people were great, but
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes give him a little money and they
Speaker 1: get real carried away. Yeah, I mean these were you know,
Speaker 1: these weren't rule following Jwels that chuse they're eating shrimp,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, shellfish. They're gonna go to hell or something.
Speaker 1: But he goes he wins them over within a matter
Speaker 1: of moments by making fun of them, and then just
Speaker 1: goes on to destroy of course for like five minutes.
Speaker 1: Just no, no, no breathing. He's singing songs, he's doing
Speaker 1: he's doing act out. I'm out of breath watching him
Speaker 1: like and this, but this, but the thing was like
Speaker 1: this was this was every fucking time, whether it was
Speaker 1: a tiny show. He's a nacho bitches. He yelled at
Speaker 1: my brother for going to the bathroom during his set,
Speaker 1: I mean, screaming, just manic madness, but like you couldn't
Speaker 1: look away, and he's very much that. That's how it's done,
Speaker 1: and you watch him and you're like, fuck, you know
Speaker 1: someone's good when you watch their set and you enjoy it,
Speaker 1: but then you consider quitting your dream. Oh yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a sign of a great That's like Kevin Meaney. Every
Speaker 1: time I watched him, he made me want to quit
Speaker 1: my dream, but like in a great way and great good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my favorite Kevin ga ga ga gay. So funny. I
Speaker 1: listened back to his episode last night because it was
Speaker 1: right after we got back from the wake. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: uh and there was he I forgot. This was like
Speaker 1: a long time ago, but he told he is the
Speaker 1: craziest fucking stories. He was dating who was then who
Speaker 1: is now his ex wife, but then he broke up
Speaker 1: with her after a year and then married someone in
Speaker 1: Vegas and then annulted like never really comedy and he
Speaker 1: had to like find her to divorce her to right.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that that's actually what you said. You're
Speaker 1: like Britney Spears of comedy, Kevin. Oh gosh, she well,
Speaker 1: I am, I am, I am you where you are?
Speaker 1: It wasn't me, guys, not imposter. Uh that's so funny. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh. Yeah, So everybody go check out look
Speaker 1: him up look up with one of his clips. You
Speaker 1: will your life will be brighter for it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like not enough young people know about him and
Speaker 1: gosh and he's also his albums on Hodify too. It
Speaker 1: is pants people on Spotify. I was listening to it
Speaker 1: all weekend and just like I had to just stop
Speaker 1: and like laugh, Yeah, which is what you do when
Speaker 1: when when a good comedy album comes on. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: So anyway, Yeah, this episode, I'm I'm sure that's what
Speaker 1: he would would have wanted, an episode of guys, we
Speaker 1: Fucked you. But you know, we can only honor you
Speaker 1: so much. Yea, yeah, but we can only do what
Speaker 1: we could do. This episode about us talking about our
Speaker 1: pussy is is dedicated to you, and there's no one
Speaker 1: who would appreciate it more. I'm sure. So as someone
Speaker 1: who doesn't like pussy, you would love this episode about
Speaker 1: pussy love. Um ah, man, that sucks. A fucking death
Speaker 1: is not Oh I hate it. I hate it. I
Speaker 1: don't like it. It's very permanent, it is very it is.
Speaker 1: It is just a fucking punch in the gut and
Speaker 1: being like no, no more, Oh my god, I can't
Speaker 1: deal with that. I don't care. I don't care. My
Speaker 1: jokes don't go over. I don't care everybody, I don't care.
Speaker 1: I don't don't care. I don't care. I don't care.
Speaker 1: I don't care. I'm happy. Loved being on the road
Speaker 1: with him doing these crazy small towns. I remember we
Speaker 1: were in northeast Pennsylvania, Starlight Lake and during his performance,
Speaker 1: Kevin was doing one of his classic, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: air pistol moves, and someone in the audience this is
Speaker 1: a very you know, there are monster trucks in the
Speaker 1: parking lot, and there are people with firearms, you know,
Speaker 1: and he does, and this guy in the audience like, hey,
Speaker 1: watch your back. You know, someone might come up behind
Speaker 1: you in the parking lot after the show and funk
Speaker 1: you up. And the audience gasps because this happens all
Speaker 1: the time in this town apparently, And Kevin's like, walk
Speaker 1: up behind me and fuck me up? How do you
Speaker 1: know I want like that? He's just puts out laughing.
Speaker 1: It's just fucking fearless. I love Kevin Meading. Kevin's comedy
Speaker 1: in general was fun and for the most part family friendly,
Speaker 1: but in person he was incredibly dark. I was was
Speaker 1: at a casino with him. I brought my mom and
Speaker 1: my friend and there was a big group of drunk
Speaker 1: girls in the front row and they were screaming through
Speaker 1: a show. And one of them started screaming at him
Speaker 1: that she wanted the is opener to come back on
Speaker 1: stage and for him to leave, and he said, in
Speaker 1: like a two room, he goes, oh, did you drive
Speaker 1: here tonight? And she goes yeah. He said, I hope
Speaker 1: you're fucking getting a car crash and die on the
Speaker 1: way home. The room got so strange. Oh and then
Speaker 1: he said he said to follow him on his Twitter
Speaker 1: page at hashtag go fund yourself. Look out, Matt Cini
Speaker 1: here comes you know. I don't care. M this is stupid,
Speaker 1: but um yeah, I don't know. I just don't know
Speaker 1: how to transition into the next promotional thing we're gonna
Speaker 1: do from We Love You Kevin. Oh, I mean, Kevin
Speaker 1: would have thought this was the funniest thing you I'm trying.
Speaker 1: You'd be like, I'm dead. And if you want bonus
Speaker 1: episode of Guys, so so there are our website is
Speaker 1: Sorry about last Night Comedy dot com and on there
Speaker 1: there's a link to our Howell page where you could
Speaker 1: get bonus episodes of this podcast a career and I
Speaker 1: record twice a month. Just subscribe, go to that, go
Speaker 1: to our web page, click on that link, and then
Speaker 1: we can like cryd of more it. You can also
Speaker 1: get merch and then we're going on tour. And we've
Speaker 1: been spouting out these tour dates all day and all
Speaker 1: night on this podcast, and we know that Joe Schmo
Speaker 1: at his desk really doesn't want to hear it again.
Speaker 1: So uh, that's not why we're doing this. We're just
Speaker 1: trying to be Kurt. Go to our website and check
Speaker 1: out all of our tour dates November two to the twenty.
Speaker 1: We're so fucking excited to go on tour. We can't
Speaker 1: wait to see all of you guys. Shows are really
Speaker 1: close to selling out, so uh a lot of them
Speaker 1: are sold out already, so get your tickets now because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of sad people in San Francisco emailing
Speaker 1: us saying the one tickets, so get him now before
Speaker 1: they sell out, so you don't have to do that,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you there. We're so excited. Absolutely, and
Speaker 1: if you want to come see us live in New
Speaker 1: York City to Nday Friday, October at eleven o'clock, I'll
Speaker 1: be doing the Halloween edition of Nacho Bitches with Blair
Speaker 1: Saki at New York Comedy Club. This is almost sold
Speaker 1: out right now when I'm recording this, so hopefully they're
Speaker 1: so hopefully it's not tickets left actually, but yeah, check
Speaker 1: out the website. It's ten dollars with code Nacho. New
Speaker 1: York Comedy Club is East Street between Second and Third Avenues.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be fun. We're costumes, we're gonna eat candy,
Speaker 1: we're gonna drink drinks. And it's sixteen enough see there,
Speaker 1: and then the next day, if you haven't already had
Speaker 1: enough from nachal Bitches. Uh, Saturday, October twenty nine, at
Speaker 1: seven thirty pm. It's nice and early, so we can
Speaker 1: all go out and give funk faced afterwards. Uh is
Speaker 1: the Halloween edition of Glamor Plus Coasted by myself and
Speaker 1: comedian Wendy's Darling. It's at Zinc Bar, eighty two West
Speaker 1: third Street. Tickets are fifteen bucks. The link to the
Speaker 1: tickets is in the description of this podcast. Uh. We
Speaker 1: got a lot of crazy ship planned for you, and
Speaker 1: we're very excited, but you gotta be twenty one to
Speaker 1: enjoy it. It's not my rules, it's the owner's rules.
Speaker 1: I love you. And then uh, the following week, we're
Speaker 1: actually doing Nacho Bitches again, two weeks in a row.
Speaker 1: On Saturday, November five, we're doing an early edition of
Speaker 1: Nacho Bitches at seven pm at You're a Comedy Club,
Speaker 1: same great show, early time. So if Nachural Bitches is
Speaker 1: usually too late for yeah, it's early. And it's also
Speaker 1: on a Saturday because I'm gonna be on tour the
Speaker 1: other days and we can't do it any other day.
Speaker 1: So seven pm tickets are still ten dollars with code
Speaker 1: Nacho Nacho Bitches, Saturday, November five. Thank you have a
Speaker 1: great day, Adele. A word from US spots is beautiful.
Speaker 1: I'm doing all the voices for that guy. Email me
Speaker 1: saying hey my voices, Oh, thank you, Yes, silence for you.
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Speaker 1: fuck bells. Nice, perfect, nailed it. We're gonna read a
Speaker 1: quick email before we get the end of you. The
Speaker 1: subject this email please help me to understand how to
Speaker 1: help her through this. My girlfriend has been pregnant. We
Speaker 1: knew for a very short period of time, just a
Speaker 1: week and a couple of days. We're both a static
Speaker 1: and then today she woke up and had started to miscarry.
Speaker 1: I know nothing is going to help her out of this,
Speaker 1: but through talking about it, she has mentioned a previous
Speaker 1: miscarriage and how she is worried she cannot have kids.
Speaker 1: She has a child from a previous relationship, and I
Speaker 1: will be fine with helping to raise him, never never
Speaker 1: being able to have a children of my own, but
Speaker 1: she wants a big family, and I just don't know
Speaker 1: enough about a woman's perspective to really be able to
Speaker 1: know how to help her. I feel at a loss here.
Speaker 1: I don't want her to feel like her dreams of
Speaker 1: having a family are crushed, and I don't want her
Speaker 1: to feel like less of a woman. If you ladies
Speaker 1: have any input at all, it would be so greatly appreciated.
Speaker 1: So I really been wanting to read this email for
Speaker 1: quite some time because I had a job back in
Speaker 1: the day, like copy using music, and I remember one
Speaker 1: of the people I worked with had a miscarriage and
Speaker 1: she was devastated and I and I of course I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. That's horrible.
Speaker 1: And then UM, we kind of did some research and
Speaker 1: miscarriages are extremely, extremely common, and I'm and I think
Speaker 1: this is one of these things that because no one
Speaker 1: talks about it, everyone thinks it doesn't happen as often
Speaker 1: as it does. So they carry this weight of is
Speaker 1: there something wrong with my body? Is there something wrong
Speaker 1: with my sperm? Is there something wrong? You know? What
Speaker 1: could the you know? What is the reasoning? And so
Speaker 1: I I got some of the stats. There's a really
Speaker 1: great Huffington Post article that UM goes over miscarriage and
Speaker 1: then they quote a bunch of stats from medline plus
Speaker 1: dot gov and it says around half of all fertilized
Speaker 1: eggs die and are lost spontaneously. Spontaneous, spontans spontaneous. I
Speaker 1: can't read out loud. Usually the yeah, usually before the
Speaker 1: woman knows she's pregnant. Among women who know they are pregnant,
Speaker 1: twenty out of every hundred will have a miscarriage. Most
Speaker 1: miscarriages occur during the first seven weeks of pregnancy, and
Speaker 1: the rate of miscarriage drops after the baby's heart read
Speaker 1: rate is detected. According to the American College of Obstetricians
Speaker 1: and Gynecologists, roughly six miscarriages occur when an embryo has
Speaker 1: an a normal amount of chromosomes during fertilization, a problem
Speaker 1: that happens by chance, not as a result of anything
Speaker 1: the parents did. Doctors are unlikely to test a women
Speaker 1: until she has had several miscarriages, and in fifty women
Speaker 1: who miscarry repeatedly, doctors are unable to find a cause.
Speaker 1: So well, that's sucked up. That's I don't We still
Speaker 1: don't know a lot of things about women's bodies still,
Speaker 1: and I don't know. Maybe we will one that, maybe
Speaker 1: we won't. But the point in in talking about this
Speaker 1: is miscarriage. Miscarriages are very common. I think so many.
Speaker 1: Almost everyone I've known who has had a child has
Speaker 1: had miscarriages. A lot of people I know have had
Speaker 1: children have had several miscarriages. And I feel like it's
Speaker 1: got to be so I've never been pregnant, so uh
Speaker 1: and uh, but if I I can't imagine what I
Speaker 1: would feel during that situation, but it would probably be
Speaker 1: some sad, some really sad feelings. And so, but I
Speaker 1: think it's really important for women to know and for
Speaker 1: men to know that this is really common. It's not
Speaker 1: indicative of anything you guys are doing wrong. Uh. It
Speaker 1: certainly can be from things like drinking coffee, drinking alcohol,
Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette. It could be so many reasons why
Speaker 1: a woman miscarries, but most of them are just it's
Speaker 1: an abnormal chromosome, you know what I mean. So you're
Speaker 1: out of doing everything right and doing everything healthy for
Speaker 1: the baby. There's no reason that you should feel any
Speaker 1: guilt or like you are less of a woman. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I get that feeling. I get that feeling. I
Speaker 1: because I thought about, like, what's going to happen the
Speaker 1: day that I want to have kids or or whatever,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, what if I can't? And then
Speaker 1: I automatically went to I'm less of a woman if
Speaker 1: I can't do that Not true at all. But but
Speaker 1: the conversation I had years and years ago at work
Speaker 1: when the one woman had a miscarriage. We talked to
Speaker 1: all these women in the office and they all they
Speaker 1: all had miscarriages, and it's it's crazy. I I was
Speaker 1: kind of really astounded because I know that, oh, miscarriage
Speaker 1: is equal heartache and hardship, and they do. But I
Speaker 1: thought it was because they don't happen that often. But
Speaker 1: they do. They happen very often. So I don't mean
Speaker 1: it just happens because you're excited to have a baby
Speaker 1: and you think you're pregnant, you think you're carrying life,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, I mean basically like
Speaker 1: you feel like something has died inside you. And that's
Speaker 1: that's some deep ship. Yeah, that's some deep ship. So
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think knowing the fact that it's common
Speaker 1: will probably help, uh, your your lady, yeah, and being supportive.
Speaker 1: I mean I actually had it. There was a miscarriage
Speaker 1: in my family, and I mean, rumor has it that
Speaker 1: her husband wasn't too nice about it, So I can't
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine, I mean, because husband wasn't nice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think because the same way sometimes a
Speaker 1: woman feels like she is not you know, a percent
Speaker 1: of woman if she miscarries. I think sometimes uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a feeling like that can come out in anger, especially
Speaker 1: from men who show emotions in anger a lot. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, like it was somehow her fault because you know,
Speaker 1: you're it's just the way the mom is like given
Speaker 1: more credit when the babies do. Sometimes if anything happens
Speaker 1: during the pregnancy has faulted more also just because she's
Speaker 1: like housing the baby. Um, so just yeah, be supportive,
Speaker 1: be there for her, understand, and just let her know
Speaker 1: that you know you'll do whatever you can to help her,
Speaker 1: but that you love her just the same. It doesn't,
Speaker 1: you know, make her any less. She's still beautiful and
Speaker 1: wonderful and an amazing mom to the child that she
Speaker 1: already have has of course. And yeah, my mom miscarried
Speaker 1: several times between my brother and I. My brother and
Speaker 1: I are eight years apart. I'm the youngest, and she
Speaker 1: thought she couldn't have any more kids and then and
Speaker 1: then here I am world, Oh aunt you glad I'm here?
Speaker 1: Oh god? Um. Yeah, So I just wanted to put
Speaker 1: that out there because this is one of the many
Speaker 1: issues that doesn't get talked about enough, like female hair
Speaker 1: loss and all the females that experienced a hair loss,
Speaker 1: I feel like they're the only one. But you're not.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we've we've gotten so many. If you
Speaker 1: think you're the if you have alopecia or anything else
Speaker 1: that's making you lose your hair and you're a woman,
Speaker 1: and you think you're the Holy show, you are not.
Speaker 1: Our inbox was flooded. It's like all right, yeah, And
Speaker 1: I forwarded them and just so you guys also wrote in.
Speaker 1: I forwarded them to the to the woman who wrote us,
Speaker 1: just so that she, you know, yeah, she gets some insight. Um, okay, Well,
Speaker 1: our guest today is as a lawyer. Yeah. I don't
Speaker 1: even know where to begin. I want to give away
Speaker 1: too much, but I know that domestic violence is a
Speaker 1: topic that you and I have wanted been wanting to
Speaker 1: talk about for a really long time. And we had
Speaker 1: perhaps one of the most h explode, like just fascinating
Speaker 1: and heartbreaking and like it's a bad story, but it's
Speaker 1: a good story. Yeah yeah, that story told well yeah,
Speaker 1: well very well, she's this woman is fucking amazing at
Speaker 1: at telling stories and uh and it has a good
Speaker 1: ending and a good lesson and it's honestly one of
Speaker 1: my favorite I've ever done ever in our lives. I
Speaker 1: was on the edge of my seat. It's great. It's
Speaker 1: like it's like it's like a Lifetime movie but less sappy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like new Lifetime. Yeah. So, so we get into
Speaker 1: those topics of domestic violence and a lot of other ship,
Speaker 1: and I'm so happy that we were able to sit
Speaker 1: down with her and talk to her. Um, ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: please welcome to the podcast. Ashley. She went back to
Speaker 1: the guy that beat her, who publicly called her his
Speaker 1: If he came within five feet of me, there'd be
Speaker 1: a price on his said, for sure, I'd use a
Speaker 1: fucking hammer on his face. Yes, I would do that
Speaker 1: to her. I would buy kicks, sab and bro then
Speaker 1: he'd beat out her life forever. I feel bad by you.
Speaker 1: Shut up again. You really think you sad to be
Speaker 1: treated this way? That taught you you're one more then
Speaker 1: you could treat you think, So get up, get out,
Speaker 1: get one want to get up, get out, get one
Speaker 1: upheld room. Okay, we're here with Ashley. You are no guts.
Speaker 1: Shut up? Thank you? So boy. I have so many questions,
Speaker 1: but let's start from the very beginning. What was your
Speaker 1: child like? Um, you know, I grew up in a
Speaker 1: fantastic family. It's just me. I'm an only child. Um,
Speaker 1: held you. I am thirty now turn thirty. Thank you. Um,
Speaker 1: it was just, you know, it was a it was
Speaker 1: a really great like. I couldn't have asked for better parents.
Speaker 1: I couldn't have asked for a lot of those things.
Speaker 1: But there were some obviously, some things that I went
Speaker 1: through when I was probably about six years old. Um My,
Speaker 1: the gardener that was working for us actually set fire
Speaker 1: to our house. Nice. Yeah, so he did it. You know,
Speaker 1: I've asked myself that a lot. I think that there's
Speaker 1: just some people that just are weird and crazy. And
Speaker 1: was he mad? Did he feel like he wasn't getting
Speaker 1: paid enough or respected? So the thought was that he
Speaker 1: was upset that we were going to be moving soon.
Speaker 1: But they never could find out because arson is really
Speaker 1: hard to prove, so he never actually was held accountable
Speaker 1: for it. But when what happened was we were, um,
Speaker 1: we were supposed to be home, but we were away,
Speaker 1: and when we came back, we had a letter on
Speaker 1: our door from the fire department saying, hey, we were here,
Speaker 1: and Uh, your house kind of burned down. Call us
Speaker 1: if you want any information. Yeah, right, So, um, I
Speaker 1: just you know, we walked in and you know, my
Speaker 1: parents tried to get me out of there right away
Speaker 1: because it's not something that you want to have a
Speaker 1: child saying, Um, whole house burned down. Um, so it
Speaker 1: was really close to combustion, but it didn't. So my
Speaker 1: room had the worst. So I have nothing from childhood.
Speaker 1: Everything that I had, you know that baby toys, shoes,
Speaker 1: things like that gone. Um. They basically just put a
Speaker 1: big hole in my wall going outside and just shoveled
Speaker 1: all of my stuff outside. On the opposite side of
Speaker 1: the house was a kitchen and it was so hot
Speaker 1: that the hinges melted. So. Um. When we came back,
Speaker 1: it took it took a really long time to you know,
Speaker 1: get everything, you get the insurance done, get everything, get
Speaker 1: the house back. Um. We obviously didn't move because you
Speaker 1: can't really sell a you can't sell a skeleton of
Speaker 1: a house. Um. So yeah, I know that was that
Speaker 1: was to find out that the gardener. You know, so
Speaker 1: my parents ended up kind of speaking to the authorities
Speaker 1: when you know, when they thought that it was arson
Speaker 1: because you know a lot of the fire department generally says,
Speaker 1: like what it is, And they started looking into it, right,
Speaker 1: and um it was that was their their best theory. Um.
Speaker 1: The police that were working on it, um. But they
Speaker 1: couldn't prove anything. Apparently this this individual had a history
Speaker 1: of arson, um and did that did your guard did
Speaker 1: they were they able to look into the gardener's record
Speaker 1: to see if yeah, I mean he had he had
Speaker 1: had a history. The gardener had a history. I thought
Speaker 1: that was a fire departments like, I don't like he's
Speaker 1: done this before. Yeah, he really hit his tracks. Well, Um, no,
Speaker 1: they they put two and two together. They kind of
Speaker 1: looked into his history. Three he had had a history
Speaker 1: of like criminal behavior and arson and things like that. Um.
Speaker 1: And so they thought that that was the most likely scenario. Um.
Speaker 1: And they apparently there had been some talk that he
Speaker 1: was upset that we were moving. So but he said
Speaker 1: he was a juvenile when he was gardening or yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was sixteen. I believe. Oh wow, what a good gardener.
Speaker 1: Sixteen damn wow. But shitty gardener because then yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: that's a bad garden. And then so that never got proven.
Speaker 1: Damn it, damn it damn. Okay, all right, so that's
Speaker 1: a really scary I would imagine, very scarring. It was
Speaker 1: thing at six, I forget what I comprehended at six
Speaker 1: and what I didn't know that, So it was really hard.
Speaker 1: I thought that every time I left, I would come
Speaker 1: back to a burnt house. So you know, I never
Speaker 1: wanted to go on sleepovers. Like, I was always very
Speaker 1: afraid of doing something because I always felt like leaving
Speaker 1: I would come back and um, there would be you know,
Speaker 1: my house would be burnt down. Also used to keep
Speaker 1: a backpack of all the things that I would need
Speaker 1: in case a fire happened again to quickly grab it.
Speaker 1: So like I kept instead of my favorite you know
Speaker 1: stuff toy being with me in bed, I kept it
Speaker 1: in this little bag so that if I if something happened,
Speaker 1: that I could just grab it and run. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: had that for a lot of years. My parents actually
Speaker 1: didn't didn't know that until maybe like two or three
Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, they're like, oh, I totally would have
Speaker 1: sent you to therapy. Maybe it affected you a little
Speaker 1: more than I thought. Right, Okay, so that's that was
Speaker 1: a bummer. Did they in terms of them when you
Speaker 1: grew into like a teenager and came into adolescence. Like,
Speaker 1: what did you get any sort of sex talk from
Speaker 1: your parents? Were they? How open were your parents with
Speaker 1: you about that kind of stuff? You know? I think
Speaker 1: that I was less open than they were about it,
Speaker 1: Like I was a little bit more awkward. Uh. Um,
Speaker 1: they were pretty you know, open with me about everything
Speaker 1: I hadn't. I had like a steady boyfriend for a while,
Speaker 1: and we'll probably get into that later because he's an
Speaker 1: interesting person. When did you start dating him? I was
Speaker 1: about sixteen. I think, oh, you're okay, so you were
Speaker 1: pretty young. Yeah, it was my first boyfriend. Um. We
Speaker 1: dated for probably about two years. Um and at school,
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you met No, we actually we went to
Speaker 1: different schools. Yeah we did. We met through a friend. Um,
Speaker 1: and you know he's basketball players, cheerleaders, you know, picturesque
Speaker 1: yearbook photo, fantastic. But no, he was he seemed. I mean,
Speaker 1: there were there were probably some morning signs that I
Speaker 1: could have seen, but as the sixteen year old, you
Speaker 1: don't even see those things. Like he was always calling
Speaker 1: to find out where I was, like keeping tabs on
Speaker 1: where I was, you know, very much like he needed
Speaker 1: to know where I was, you know, things like that
Speaker 1: a little bit. But at the time, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: he loves me so much, you know, he just really
Speaker 1: want I am all time this tracking device. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: Um did your mom obviously you would have had to
Speaker 1: call your house, right because you have a cellphone. So
Speaker 1: my man have had a cellphone. I did. It was Yeah,
Speaker 1: we used to play that you remember that game Snake Snake. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. My mom later told me that she had
Speaker 1: some concerns, but you know she was like, if I
Speaker 1: had told you, then you you know, it wouldn't have
Speaker 1: done anything. You would have stayed with him. You know,
Speaker 1: you're you would have said exactly what you thought, which
Speaker 1: exactly so um, yeah, I know. She she never told
Speaker 1: me she didn't like him, but I always knew that
Speaker 1: she kind of didn't like him. Yeah, you always kind
Speaker 1: of know. Yeah, you get a vibe and then you're like,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to ignore this because yeah, she you know,
Speaker 1: maybe stay home this weekend. Um. So yeah, but we
Speaker 1: probably dated for about two years, and there was a
Speaker 1: lot of things that I didn't you know, looking back now,
Speaker 1: having gone to many many therapy piss like I could
Speaker 1: probably do therapy now, but no, looking back, there were
Speaker 1: so many things that I probably should have seen as
Speaker 1: being warning signs that you just, I guess you make
Speaker 1: excuses for when you're in the middle of it. Um.
Speaker 1: You know. It started out with simple things like we
Speaker 1: would be horsing around, um, just playing or something. And
Speaker 1: he was a lot bigger than me, so I'm quite
Speaker 1: small and wrestling right like just like playing like yeah,
Speaker 1: like something that might lead into four play kind of
Speaker 1: playing or just like kind of because I used to
Speaker 1: deal with one guy right Um. He was about he
Speaker 1: was probably six three and I'm very tiny on like
Speaker 1: maybe a hundred pounds so um, and he was like
Speaker 1: two pounds, so it's a lot bigger than me. And um,
Speaker 1: you know, I remember the first time we were playing,
Speaker 1: and I don't remember what happened, but there's such force
Speaker 1: that he ended up hitting me in the eye and
Speaker 1: I ended up getting kind of a black eye. And
Speaker 1: at the time I was like, oh, we were just
Speaker 1: playing around, playing, you know, And and then but then
Speaker 1: with fist right then, looking around looking back, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, why was anyone using that much force where
Speaker 1: I would be getting like a black black guy from
Speaker 1: something like um, and then just it kind of kind
Speaker 1: of progressed from that, so, um, you know I would
Speaker 1: say that I didn't you know, he was my first time,
Speaker 1: so he was the first person I've ever had sex with.
Speaker 1: And it got to the point where, like, you know,
Speaker 1: he would kind of hold me down when I would
Speaker 1: say now and try to force himself on me, And
Speaker 1: then what would you do in that moment? You know,
Speaker 1: at that time, I was just like, you know, I
Speaker 1: should be I should be wanting this, like I'm his girlfriend,
Speaker 1: Like why you know, maybe you know what am I? Like?
Speaker 1: What am I'm wrong in this? In this situation? And
Speaker 1: it becomes so twisted because the type of people who
Speaker 1: do this thing is this stuff to you make you
Speaker 1: feel that way, you know, they make they turn the
Speaker 1: stuff around. That's how that's how the control and manipulation happens.
Speaker 1: They say to you, like you, why don't you love me?
Speaker 1: Like you're my girlfriend? You should be wanting to have
Speaker 1: sex with me, like you should be wanting to do
Speaker 1: this stuff, And then you become you start to feel
Speaker 1: like you're the person at fault instead of and and
Speaker 1: sixteen too. I know, Krinn, You're you were very confident
Speaker 1: pretty much throughout your entire life. But I remember, like
Speaker 1: my when I was sixteen is when I have my
Speaker 1: I think I might have been fifteen when I have
Speaker 1: my first boyfriend, who he cheated on me the majority
Speaker 1: of the time, but he he didn't do anything like abusive.
Speaker 1: But I was so naive, so much more naive than
Speaker 1: I am now. I'm pretty naive now, and my self
Speaker 1: esteem was just it was being formed, so I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever stood up for myself when
Speaker 1: I was like early teens because I just didn't. I
Speaker 1: felt bad or I didn't know how or something. And
Speaker 1: you don't. And you're learning relationships from your first relationship, right,
Speaker 1: so you're figuring everything out, you're figuring yourself out. You're
Speaker 1: like changing and you're like, wow, I have a boyfriend.
Speaker 1: That's so crazy, but it's a boy. What also depends
Speaker 1: on your parents, And I mean, and I think a
Speaker 1: lot of the reasons I'm like super confident because my
Speaker 1: mom like doesn't take ship, like I'm talking about like
Speaker 1: not from like a clerk at the post office, like
Speaker 1: not from anybody. Yeah, I mean, you kind of just
Speaker 1: you're just your parental ficking what you have seen that's true.
Speaker 1: My mom was not like that at all. She was
Speaker 1: more weak willed for short, and she was going through
Speaker 1: depression when I was younger, so there was no strength
Speaker 1: in her, did you know? You know what, My mom
Speaker 1: was a really strong person. But I think that I
Speaker 1: didn't understand myself then, you know what I mean? I
Speaker 1: think that So I I changed schools a lot, and
Speaker 1: I didn't have like a course set of friends. And
Speaker 1: I think that that really hurt me because I was
Speaker 1: always trying to like fit in. Um it's like the
Speaker 1: biggest goal in high school, right and um? And so
Speaker 1: I think I didn't know me, you know. And to
Speaker 1: be honest, like, I think I'm still figuring me out.
Speaker 1: I don't think are we all? Are? I mean, I
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm still I'm divorced now, um, and
Speaker 1: I still think I'm trying to figure out like what
Speaker 1: I want. Yeah, I mean, I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of people, that's life is just a learning and just
Speaker 1: as you go and as these as stuff happens to you,
Speaker 1: you you take it and put it on your shelf
Speaker 1: of like, okay, there's a lesson I learned and develop
Speaker 1: more self awareness ideally, right, But it's not easy. I
Speaker 1: think the worst thing for me um coming out of
Speaker 1: that relationship. And we'll go back into that, but is that,
Speaker 1: you know, that was kind of my first real experience
Speaker 1: with like love and interaction with with a boy, like
Speaker 1: real interactually that first relationship. That's and I think it
Speaker 1: it affected me later and who I thought was good
Speaker 1: for me and who I didn't think was good for me.
Speaker 1: So I tended to. I always gravitated, and I still
Speaker 1: find myself sometimes gravitating towards people who are manipulative or
Speaker 1: abusive or things like that, you know where I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe they're not abusive, but like people who have that
Speaker 1: kind of personality, right, And I still and I have
Speaker 1: to sit there and I have to think, you know,
Speaker 1: I have to kind of reevaluate things because I think
Speaker 1: you're when you form that so early on, it's it's
Speaker 1: like you got to retrain your brain. Because I never
Speaker 1: knew if being in uh a relationship and abusive relationship
Speaker 1: and not getting out right away, if that had any
Speaker 1: connection with self esteem. I have no idea it does, okay,
Speaker 1: because because of those patterns that form in your brain,
Speaker 1: I mean, when you're sixteen, A lot of sixteen year
Speaker 1: old self esteem is being figured out right, So, but
Speaker 1: then later on in life, if you continue the pattern,
Speaker 1: that's more. Is it self esteem also involved then or
Speaker 1: is it more the fact that this is the way
Speaker 1: you your brain had operated, and it's just hard to
Speaker 1: change that. It's both, I think because and and obviously
Speaker 1: this might be different for people who are older in
Speaker 1: an abusive relationship, But I think because I was so
Speaker 1: young and I craved his his like approval, and he
Speaker 1: used that yeah, you know what I mean, like maybe
Speaker 1: you should you know, maybe you should lose a little
Speaker 1: bit of weight here or something like that, stuff like that,
Speaker 1: you know, just like things like that, and and so um,
Speaker 1: you crave this person's um when when you're doing something good,
Speaker 1: it's like right, you know. I mean, I think self
Speaker 1: esteem has so much to do with almost everything that
Speaker 1: we do and life. Like, I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: times the emails will get them like this just boils
Speaker 1: down to like your feelings about yourself and confidence and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, because you're not going to put up
Speaker 1: with a lot of ship if you love yourself basically,
Speaker 1: because you're like why would I like, I would never
Speaker 1: let someone treat like my mom like this? Why am
Speaker 1: I letting someone treat me like this or insert person
Speaker 1: that you love there? Yeah, that's true. You know it's
Speaker 1: true in therapy. Has has your therapist ever kind of
Speaker 1: been like this is the type of person that you
Speaker 1: should be with. Have they ever laid it out like that.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's so much that this is the
Speaker 1: type of person you should be with. It's like, look
Speaker 1: for this kind of behavior to not be with, Like
Speaker 1: you know people who who are you know, manipulative behaviors
Speaker 1: that I think that it's easy you can see, like
Speaker 1: when we have a girlfriend and they're like, oh, you
Speaker 1: know this guy that I'm seeing is doing X, Y
Speaker 1: and ZD. You're like, this guy is manipulating it. It's
Speaker 1: so easy, can see it, right, But when you're the
Speaker 1: person in it, you're like, oh, you know, it's even
Speaker 1: if you try. I've tried to see it because I've
Speaker 1: had friends say things about as boyfriends and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I really don't think he's like that, and then lo
Speaker 1: and behold it's hard cloud things they had they really do.
Speaker 1: It's so annoying. So how how did the progression go
Speaker 1: with your first boyfriend? Like? What was what? What are
Speaker 1: the lead up. So after the black eye and the
Speaker 1: comments about your looks, I mean, and then just kind
Speaker 1: of you know, feeling for you know, being physically kind
Speaker 1: of forced to have sex and things like that. You know,
Speaker 1: eventually we broke up, and UM, I think I was
Speaker 1: how did that happen? Did someone dump someone? Did you
Speaker 1: mutually agree? I broke up with him? But um, it
Speaker 1: was kind of thing did you go hey wire? He
Speaker 1: did so? Um understatement statement, Um, I I started getting
Speaker 1: about two d phone calls every day. It would literally
Speaker 1: owe your cell phone to my cell phone. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it would literally it would ring and I would hang
Speaker 1: it up and it would just ring again, and I
Speaker 1: would hang it up and it would ring again, and
Speaker 1: I would hang it up and this would go on
Speaker 1: from these twenty minutes. I would get messages on my phone, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, telling me that I'm a bitch, that I
Speaker 1: need to fix things. That's always a good way to
Speaker 1: get someone back. It Really, I totally felt like that.
Speaker 1: We're like, oh so dear me now, um, but you know,
Speaker 1: be you know you need to fix this is your
Speaker 1: problem is it's the same type of thing that you
Speaker 1: saw that I saw in the relationship, which is it
Speaker 1: was me and not him, never any responsibility for his
Speaker 1: own action, so it was always on me. But at
Speaker 1: the time, like I was still having problems with that
Speaker 1: because I just gotten out of that relationship. So, um,
Speaker 1: even when you left you those messages, though, were you like,
Speaker 1: all right, buddy, you got an issue? Like when did
Speaker 1: you realize that he was being manipulative and abusive? I
Speaker 1: think I was in denial for a very long time.
Speaker 1: I was in denial about very powerful, strong force I was.
Speaker 1: I was very much in denial out the severity of
Speaker 1: the situation, um, the danger that I was in, and
Speaker 1: just in general how explosive this individual was. Um. I
Speaker 1: think I was like, well, he loves me, he'd never
Speaker 1: do anything to me, and that's just something that you
Speaker 1: you know, when you're dealing with someone who has and
Speaker 1: I believe that he has something going on upstairs clearly
Speaker 1: that needed to be helped. But when you're dealing with
Speaker 1: people like that, there there is no like, you know,
Speaker 1: he's not going to do something because he loves me.
Speaker 1: They they do things that aren't um rational, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and they don't understand how it's not rational. Like I
Speaker 1: would tell him, this is not normal, this is not
Speaker 1: what people do. People don't call their excess two times
Speaker 1: a day and and try to get them back. So
Speaker 1: those are post breakup calls, a post breakup calls. So
Speaker 1: I probably every every day for months, I was getting
Speaker 1: that many calls. Yeah, I mean, calling a bunch of
Speaker 1: times in a row is like one of the main
Speaker 1: red flags of someone who's controlling. Like if anyone was
Speaker 1: listening has a boyfriend who calls them like or a
Speaker 1: girlfriend or a girlfriend who calls him a bunch of
Speaker 1: times in a row, unless it is emergency, Because when
Speaker 1: somebody calls me multiple times the road that I know
Speaker 1: someone's dying. Yeah, but that's not I mean I even
Speaker 1: one of my really good friends used to have a
Speaker 1: boyfriend who would call, like we would be out and
Speaker 1: he would call like twenty times until she would pick up.
Speaker 1: It's not normal you fucking call once, you leave a
Speaker 1: message and then made you call again if you're actually nervous,
Speaker 1: like an hour later, right, Yeah, Because when when I
Speaker 1: had a person that would call that would do kind
Speaker 1: of something similar like that, and I didn't you know,
Speaker 1: I knew him kind of well we've been hooking up,
Speaker 1: but then he called me like three times in a
Speaker 1: row and immediate I was like, there's no emergency. I
Speaker 1: barely know the guy. I'm like, he's a psycho. He's
Speaker 1: fucking psycho. Well at least, but you figured that one out.
Speaker 1: And that happened later on in my twenties. So I
Speaker 1: had so I was living um at college at the time.
Speaker 1: So I was living on campus. I wasn't a dorm um,
Speaker 1: and I would hear stories of him a parly just
Speaker 1: walking around the dorm areas looking for me to your
Speaker 1: did he go He didn't go to my college? Fuck? Um,
Speaker 1: he would walk around campus. He would call me and
Speaker 1: be like, I'm like, where are you. Um, you had
Speaker 1: a lot of free time? Yeah, did you not have
Speaker 1: a job? Had no job or no school? What he didn't?
Speaker 1: She's kind of just went off the rails. Um, So
Speaker 1: as parents weird, Did you ever meet him? They? Yes,
Speaker 1: they were all right. I'll tell you something about that. Um,
Speaker 1: I had some friends and he asked around enough to
Speaker 1: find out where some of these friends were, and he
Speaker 1: actually barricaded them in their dorm room and you know,
Speaker 1: basically said like, you need to get Ashley here to
Speaker 1: fix it. You need to get her here to fix it, um,
Speaker 1: and you know, you need to make sure that she
Speaker 1: takes me back and things like that. And um, and
Speaker 1: did your friend because a barricade? I mean he basically
Speaker 1: four They couldn't leave the room because he was in
Speaker 1: the doorway. And then okay, so what, Oh my godness.
Speaker 1: So they lived across from another one of my friends
Speaker 1: who was a guy. UM, and they told him about it. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know why they didn't call the cops. They
Speaker 1: told me about it. I think I don't know. I
Speaker 1: actually and you know, I never really asked that because
Speaker 1: when they told me about it, I was in such shock,
Speaker 1: totally different priority in your brain of like oh and
Speaker 1: then and then I started to think to myself like
Speaker 1: I'm putting my friends in danger, like and I started
Speaker 1: to isolate myself at that point because I was Once
Speaker 1: that happened, it was very much like I I cannot
Speaker 1: be responsible for this, Like I can't. I can't be
Speaker 1: responsible for me and everyone else like that. It just
Speaker 1: that one that to me started to be the turning point.
Speaker 1: That's so weird because a lot of times I feel
Speaker 1: like in a manipulated relationship, like the person is trying
Speaker 1: to isolate the other person like through like shutting away
Speaker 1: your friends, shutting away your family, and so it's like
Speaker 1: almost he forced you into doing it yourself. It was
Speaker 1: I started to be very afraid of I mean that,
Speaker 1: I think that was the point in which I started
Speaker 1: to worry not only for my safety but everyone else's
Speaker 1: who was around me, um and anybody. So, UM, I
Speaker 1: kind of started to talk a little bit more about
Speaker 1: I mean, my friends. I didn't really know the extent
Speaker 1: of what was going on at that point, and so
Speaker 1: then I kind of had to be like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: this is what's going on. In a minute. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I talked to my parents about it a little bit.
Speaker 1: So I tried to stay away from the dorms um
Speaker 1: and I there was one time where I was at
Speaker 1: my home and I was at my home by myself, UM,
Speaker 1: and it was during kind of I'm you know, from
Speaker 1: a warmer area, so it was warm outside, and uh,
Speaker 1: the windows and backscreen, the back the sliding luster was
Speaker 1: opening Halloween right now. Yeah, Well, so he come in
Speaker 1: through the back door, the sliding door, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? And he's basically saying like
Speaker 1: you need to help, you need to fix this. Blah
Speaker 1: bla blah blah. And I don't even remember how so
Speaker 1: many of these things, Like I remember things, and I
Speaker 1: don't remember the full story. So I apologized for not
Speaker 1: having more specifically blacked out a little bit, a little bit,
Speaker 1: but um, so I got him out somehow, and I
Speaker 1: like shut the sliding glass doors, and um, apparently I
Speaker 1: hadn't locked a different door, and so he got in
Speaker 1: through there. He came back and he said the same thing,
Speaker 1: and I was like, you need to get out to
Speaker 1: the touch you at this point, you know, he was um,
Speaker 1: he was actually pinching himself and pulling out his own hair.
Speaker 1: Oh all right, there's some problems, right. So I got
Speaker 1: him out again, and I remember going through locking all
Speaker 1: the windows and locking all the doors. I think I
Speaker 1: threatened to call the police, and that's what happened. So
Speaker 1: I went and I went and took a bath, and
Speaker 1: my phone was kind of like out, um in my bedroom,
Speaker 1: and I took a bath and I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: just I just wanted to kind of like wash everything
Speaker 1: off me, like relax whatever. And I um walk out
Speaker 1: of my bathroom and my bathtub and he was sitting
Speaker 1: on my bed. I was saying, I was like, fucking Christ,
Speaker 1: that's a ballsier move than even I would make. Taking
Speaker 1: a bath, Oh my god. Yeah. I was afraid to
Speaker 1: take baths and showers without people in the in the
Speaker 1: house with me after that for years. Um. And I
Speaker 1: walked out and he had my phone and he just,
Speaker 1: you know, basically said like, you need to fix this,
Speaker 1: you need to like take me back, you need to
Speaker 1: fix me, and all of these things. And honestly, like,
Speaker 1: I don't remember what happened after that. I know that
Speaker 1: the next door neighbor heard me screaming and she was
Speaker 1: going to call the police. Um, were you screaming while
Speaker 1: you were talking to him? Yeah? Yeah, I was, you know,
Speaker 1: like basically telling him that this is not normal. You
Speaker 1: need to get out. I'm going to call the police,
Speaker 1: like you need to need you need to get out,
Speaker 1: you need to get the funk out. Um. And he
Speaker 1: eventually got m got out out. Uh, and then I
Speaker 1: left the house. I just kind of went somewhere somewhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that was that was really traumatizing. And no cops
Speaker 1: were called at that point, and the neighbor didn't call
Speaker 1: cops yet. Um, the neighbor might have actually called the cops,
Speaker 1: but he was gone by that point, so they can't
Speaker 1: really do anything. So what was why hadn't you at
Speaker 1: this point like filed or restraining order? Was was there?
Speaker 1: Did you still have like feelings or what was that
Speaker 1: even a thought? There's a couple there's a couple of
Speaker 1: things that happened so um before, and i'll tell you
Speaker 1: about the last the worst experience in a moment, but
Speaker 1: um before, I used to think, you know, oh, well,
Speaker 1: he's so young, you know, I don't want to ruin
Speaker 1: his life with like something, you know, like I'll never
Speaker 1: be able to do you know, certain things like I
Speaker 1: can't be responsible for that. And and I think there's
Speaker 1: an element of like there's still the manipulation going on,
Speaker 1: you know. Oh yeah, and that affected how you view
Speaker 1: things instead of like I would be helping him by
Speaker 1: calling the cops and getting him help. It makes sense
Speaker 1: that that was your pathway of thinking and looking back,
Speaker 1: you know, um, it was one of my biggest regrets
Speaker 1: because I think to myself, like, how many other girls
Speaker 1: are put into a bad situation now because I didn't
Speaker 1: have the guts to do it. And I know you
Speaker 1: can't really think like that, but I do well, it's
Speaker 1: also like yeah, yeah, but I mean, it just seems
Speaker 1: that you have a history of blaming yourself for a
Speaker 1: lot of things that you do not blame yourself, which
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of therapists as a victim. That's
Speaker 1: a very big victim thing. Yeah, it is. It's hard
Speaker 1: when that's Blaming yourself is the number one thing for
Speaker 1: like sexual assault, for that's how those things do unreported.
Speaker 1: So many of the emails that we've gotten are like,
Speaker 1: was it my I was raped? Was it my fault?
Speaker 1: I'm like, what? Don Also because if the society is
Speaker 1: telling us a lot of times that things are our faults,
Speaker 1: and court cases sometimes go that way, that it is
Speaker 1: the woman's fault and the victim's fault, and it's like
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, no, So let's see, Uh, has he threatened
Speaker 1: to kill you or himself at this point? Yet he did?
Speaker 1: He did to my mom. He told my mom he
Speaker 1: threatened to kill me. He's like, your mom, you're never
Speaker 1: going to see her again, or something like that. She
Speaker 1: never told me about it until years later. Verbally, yes,
Speaker 1: what the fuck? Yeah? Did she call the cops? No?
Speaker 1: Because what it like you didn't have that recorded he
Speaker 1: didn't have like there. Okay, so she thought that she
Speaker 1: would be if she did call the police. Then so
Speaker 1: there should be like an app where you can just
Speaker 1: like give the cops and heads up, just like heads
Speaker 1: up and stalking and things like that. Watch this person.
Speaker 1: What almost fifteen years ago, the laws were different. Okay, interesting,
Speaker 1: you know this is we have to this is almost
Speaker 1: fifteen years a Um. The you know, I think people
Speaker 1: are just now becoming more aware of stalking. Was the
Speaker 1: only thing that's changing is we're talking about because it's
Speaker 1: been happen because it's more like an emotional because when
Speaker 1: you're talking like it is like physical that you're in
Speaker 1: the vicinity of the person, but you're not actually touching them.
Speaker 1: So I think people have a hard time understanding abuse
Speaker 1: that doesn't like leave some kind of a scar, right,
Speaker 1: And it's almost worse because you know, the way I
Speaker 1: used to explain it to people was you feel like
Speaker 1: an animal, animal being hunted, Like at all times, you
Speaker 1: were looking over your back, you're looking around, you're worrying
Speaker 1: that that person is around. Your anxiety must have been
Speaker 1: through the world to live. Um, So I think it
Speaker 1: kind of really culminated. Um it culminated. I was. I
Speaker 1: don't even remember when it was. It might have been
Speaker 1: halfway through the school year. And I was in at
Speaker 1: this point. Yes, Um, so I was in my dorm room. Um,
Speaker 1: and it was there was a bathroom attached to it,
Speaker 1: and fortunately my roommate was in the bathroom taking a shower.
Speaker 1: The door was closed, so you couldn't You didn't really know, right, Um.
Speaker 1: And I get a knock on my door and and
Speaker 1: I look at the people and I don't see anyone.
Speaker 1: And so I opened the door, and good, I know
Speaker 1: I did. I did what every person in the horror
Speaker 1: movie like, but they tell you not to do. It's awful.
Speaker 1: Alan And I opened the door and he comes running
Speaker 1: from around the corner and he pushes his way in
Speaker 1: that noise, and he is he's lost it. He's pulling
Speaker 1: out his hair. He's pinching himself, his head hair, his
Speaker 1: arm hair, head hair like that to arm was pinching.
Speaker 1: I was, I was thinking, was pinching. And then ticket
Speaker 1: he was don't know why I'm so curious about this,
Speaker 1: but this is very that's so bad. It's such a
Speaker 1: weird thing. Yeah, you got something up to the point
Speaker 1: where like his arm was just full of like almost
Speaker 1: it was almost bleeding. Yeah, and it's Jesus um, it's
Speaker 1: half bald, bleeding dude six three. Actually, it would have
Speaker 1: been so much easier to break up with him. I
Speaker 1: actually seen him like that, that's gross out um and
Speaker 1: he um. He was looking at me. He's much bigger
Speaker 1: than me, and he was just yelling. I don't even
Speaker 1: remember the things he was yelling at me. And he
Speaker 1: put his arms around my neck and he started to
Speaker 1: strangle me. So he was behind you, he was in
Speaker 1: front of me. He was in front of me, and
Speaker 1: he put his arms kind of he grabbed my neck
Speaker 1: and choke right exactly and so um, and he started
Speaker 1: to strangle me. And I remember sitting there thinking to myself, like,
Speaker 1: this is it. Could you scream while you were being
Speaker 1: strangled because that's not probably not in that bitch um.
Speaker 1: And I almost didn't even have the voice for it,
Speaker 1: like I, I mean, that's shocking. Well, fear and you know,
Speaker 1: takes away and honestly, I'm going to be frank with you.
Speaker 1: Part of me was like, finally it's over. It's going
Speaker 1: to be over, right, because this is something that you
Speaker 1: can catch them in. I mean, at the time, I
Speaker 1: was severely interrectic, I was severely bliemic. I was maybe
Speaker 1: eighty pounds. You were ready to die. I would go
Speaker 1: to bed at night and my heart would hurt because
Speaker 1: it was like I was so underweight, and I would
Speaker 1: just kind of sit there and be like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I don't even care if I wake up the next morning,
Speaker 1: because then I wouldn't have to deal with us every day,
Speaker 1: because it was literally every day I was waking up
Speaker 1: and I didn't know if I was going to die
Speaker 1: or not. I mean, and then what what what are
Speaker 1: the people in your life at this time doing? Because
Speaker 1: I mean, like, if you're severely underweight, that's something that
Speaker 1: people can see where you hiding it with clothes? Like
Speaker 1: how were you? I mean, I think everyone knew, and
Speaker 1: they were bringing it to my attention, but they also
Speaker 1: knew that I was going through this other terrible thing
Speaker 1: and so and no one knew, No one knew how
Speaker 1: to deal, how to how to bring it up or
Speaker 1: like I don't want to burdener you know what I have.
Speaker 1: There's a couple of people that I that I've known
Speaker 1: that they get they lose a lot of weight and
Speaker 1: it's just a little weird. And then you hear them
Speaker 1: barfing in the bathroom and you're like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if I should say anything. I don't know. Even to
Speaker 1: this day, I get I don't know, and believe me
Speaker 1: in anorexte are are a control thing. So I was
Speaker 1: believing for four months after a bad breakup with this guy,
Speaker 1: and I didn't understand it. And then the therapist told
Speaker 1: me about control because I wasn't trying to lose. It
Speaker 1: wasn't about my body it was and she goes, no,
Speaker 1: it's a control thing. I was like, that makes way
Speaker 1: more sense. And now I think I understand right better.
Speaker 1: I had no control over what was going on in
Speaker 1: my life at that point, right, everything, everything I was
Speaker 1: doing everything, you know, having my phone around exactly. Everything
Speaker 1: was in my you know, in my world controlled by him.
Speaker 1: You know. I was doing things based on him or
Speaker 1: when I thought he would do, or where I thought
Speaker 1: he would go or what you know. And so the
Speaker 1: only thing I really had control over was my weight. Um,
Speaker 1: and that was a very good interrexic. I was very underweight. Um,
Speaker 1: I was so thin I was. I thought you meant
Speaker 1: you were good at hiding it. But you were just
Speaker 1: really good at being interacted. Hey we ski Uh so, UM,
Speaker 1: what happened? So he had he had, you know, he
Speaker 1: was strangling me. And then, UM, I think I think
Speaker 1: I can't remember specifically, but some a noise came from
Speaker 1: the bathroom and it kind of something clicked in him.
Speaker 1: Did you think you were going to die in that moment? Did? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I did. I was later diagnosed with severe PTSD. UM
Speaker 1: but uh, sorry, So the roommate came out. The roommate
Speaker 1: came out, and he freaked out, you know, he and then, UM,
Speaker 1: someone heard screaming and I don't even maybe it was me.
Speaker 1: I don't even know who was screaming. It could have
Speaker 1: been me. I mean, if I was a roommate, I'd
Speaker 1: be like I would just scream. Someone called the campus police.
Speaker 1: The campus police came over. Um, he was banned. I
Speaker 1: was like, please call the real police. I got a baton,
Speaker 1: which is a lot of the reason why rape. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: the campus police used to be um, the police for
Speaker 1: the local county, and he used to work with DV
Speaker 1: victims domestic violence victims. Sorry, um, and so he after
Speaker 1: everything happened, he actually called me into his office and
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm very concerned for you, Like this is
Speaker 1: something that I think you need to be you need
Speaker 1: to take more serious. No, and campus police were called.
Speaker 1: Did he flee or was he in the room? He
Speaker 1: was there, um when campus police showed up, and I
Speaker 1: said kind of basically that he came into my room uninvited.
Speaker 1: There like, do you want to go out? And I
Speaker 1: said yes, um, And the mention of the strangling, I
Speaker 1: didn't know. I just kind of was like I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I almost felt like it was gonna be worse. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just I just wanted him out at
Speaker 1: that point. I didn't want to deal with anything. I
Speaker 1: was eighteen. I was like, I just I didn't go
Speaker 1: away right, um. And I just I basically didn't. I
Speaker 1: was almost more afraid to say something. And they said
Speaker 1: that he wasn't going to be allowed on campus, and
Speaker 1: it turns out was he already Yeah, I don't think
Speaker 1: he was allowed initially didn't walk around campus. Um, but
Speaker 1: I later heard from people who were around, like living
Speaker 1: around the dorms, who called Apparently he had just been
Speaker 1: walking around a lot, and he had been like outside
Speaker 1: my window looking at and things like that, and these
Speaker 1: were things that I didn't know about that they thought
Speaker 1: were weird, but they didn't really know what was going on,
Speaker 1: so they once they paved this out. So then I mean,
Speaker 1: that's her special brother, so that yeah, right, Um. So
Speaker 1: the campus police pulled me and he made an appointment
Speaker 1: with me, and he had worked with victims of domestic
Speaker 1: violence and things like that, and he said, look, I'm
Speaker 1: very concerned for you that I kind of told them
Speaker 1: a little bit more of what happened, um, and he said,
Speaker 1: I really think you need to file for a retraining owner.
Speaker 1: So I went to the police and I kind of
Speaker 1: told them what was going on, and they asked me, Um,
Speaker 1: literally asked me if I if he had broken up
Speaker 1: with me and if I was just trying to get
Speaker 1: back at him, what? What? What? Okay? How how soon
Speaker 1: into you going into the police station did they ask
Speaker 1: you that? Ten minutes? So it was that one of
Speaker 1: the first questions they asked you. Pretty much like I
Speaker 1: mentioned the part where he broke into your house like
Speaker 1: a horror movie, do you have a police report? Did
Speaker 1: you can you prove that? God damn it, no one
Speaker 1: ever takes the ship into account, like the fact that
Speaker 1: it's just so and then and then and then I
Speaker 1: asked and so I said, well, if I called the police,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, they have to catch him in
Speaker 1: the act. And I was like, well I did, right,
Speaker 1: and that's and that's what I thought, you know. I
Speaker 1: was like, what, so you want to wait for me
Speaker 1: to die, I mean lure them in. So then they
Speaker 1: said with my body right, so um, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I have like two phone calls. They're like, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: they take that as a stocking sign. Fucking dicks. So
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, that's great that the campus police
Speaker 1: were proactive and encouraging you to file a report just
Speaker 1: because negative stories I hear all the time about police
Speaker 1: being like, don't tell anyone know. He was really really good.
Speaker 1: It was the it was the act was actual fu
Speaker 1: because I feel like that was his specialty. And I
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of you're just kind of going
Speaker 1: into like the generic police a lot of time of
Speaker 1: the guys that they all and they're like I didn't
Speaker 1: see a gun or drugs, Like I don't care, you know,
Speaker 1: so they're like cool, if you know, after kind of trying,
Speaker 1: I felt like I had to convince them of what
Speaker 1: I was going through you know, actually, how did you
Speaker 1: answer that awful question that they asked you? I just
Speaker 1: I was, I said, are you kidding me? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: mean I'm first of all, I'm eighteen, and these are authorities,
Speaker 1: so I'm a little bit, you know, and I've never
Speaker 1: been in trouble before. So at first I'm sitting there
Speaker 1: like did they really just ask me that question? Like?
Speaker 1: Do they? Am I really explaining myself? I just told everyone,
Speaker 1: you know, these people the worst things that have happened,
Speaker 1: and you have a witness. Your roommate was there at
Speaker 1: least for that when he entered your dorm room uninvited.
Speaker 1: And they basically just you know, They're like, you know,
Speaker 1: well do you have any proof? Bring me proof and
Speaker 1: then we can do something. And I was like, the
Speaker 1: who's gonna Like how am I going to get proof? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What what do you mean by like give me a
Speaker 1: fucking bone off? I started to take a picture of
Speaker 1: him like outside my window, like staring at me or
Speaker 1: something like what am I supposed to do? Like even
Speaker 1: like just just out of protocol, like just call the
Speaker 1: guy in and question him and be like hi. So
Speaker 1: then they said, well, you can try to get a
Speaker 1: restraining order if you want to. But wow, what a
Speaker 1: helpful But you have to go down to court and
Speaker 1: you have to just sit there and you have to
Speaker 1: wait until the judge may or may not call your case.
Speaker 1: You might be there all day for multiple days. And
Speaker 1: I said, this is ridiculous. So he kind of seemed
Speaker 1: like he was discouraging you. This is a dumb process.
Speaker 1: But if you wanted to, you could, but it might
Speaker 1: not work. He didn't believe me. Fuck and and to
Speaker 1: be he probably has a restraining order against to be.
Speaker 1: To be honest, a lot of people, you know, had
Speaker 1: a hard time, especially people that knew him, were like, oh,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't do that, he wouldn't do that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: had a lot of people that would either I don't
Speaker 1: know if it was like they refused to believe it
Speaker 1: or it wasn't. I don't I just don't know. But
Speaker 1: I lost a lot of friends, Like I lost a
Speaker 1: lot of friends who I would tell them, you know,
Speaker 1: like don't give out my number. I changed my number
Speaker 1: seven times, seven times, and the level of crazy, like
Speaker 1: how can you even hide it? Then they noticed like, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy has hair missing, he's half ball, his arms
Speaker 1: are bleeding now. No, it's and they the friends that
Speaker 1: you lost? Was it because they were on his side? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Fuck that? Yeah, Like it must have felt fucking insane.
Speaker 1: Did you have like an ingram pool? What was fish
Speaker 1: like that? His friends? You know, that's a commodity. I
Speaker 1: wish I knew. I have no idea it was. When
Speaker 1: it was, it was, it was. Yeah, it was very
Speaker 1: difficult because these are the people that are supposed to
Speaker 1: my friends. And and I would be like, please don't
Speaker 1: get my number out, like this is something that is
Speaker 1: going on. I would kind of explain it to them,
Speaker 1: and then I would get a phone call from him
Speaker 1: and I would I would tell them, you know, like,
Speaker 1: well what happened. They're like, well, he just wanted to apologize.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, you don't understand. Horrible friend. And
Speaker 1: I'd have to change it again. What the fucking people
Speaker 1: knew me? I was allowed to start picking my own
Speaker 1: number after a while, Hey, Ashley, which one you wants?
Speaker 1: This way? I was like, oh, I like this number.
Speaker 1: This sounds kind of nice. Um, and I would pick
Speaker 1: different area codes. Um Jesus. So that was How were
Speaker 1: you feeling during all this? Like your friend, I mean
Speaker 1: that is an awful cherry on top of a ship sandwich.
Speaker 1: Because to be honest, that's part of the reason why
Speaker 1: it's someday. I realized that I was, like, no one
Speaker 1: puts cherryes on sandwiches. I apologize a horrible so um,
Speaker 1: you know. I think that also is part of the
Speaker 1: reason why I didn't come forward a lot of times,
Speaker 1: because people were starting to say things like, um, they
Speaker 1: didn't believe me, and they and so I stopped believing
Speaker 1: that what I was going through was serious. Like I
Speaker 1: started to think, like, maybe I am blowing this out
Speaker 1: of proportion thing I noticed about you dramatic like it's
Speaker 1: choked and then complains that go into film. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I think it kind of fed into a
Speaker 1: lot of it. You know, with people not believing you,
Speaker 1: you start to think to yourself, well, maybe I am
Speaker 1: blowing this out of proportion. Maybe I maybe it isn't
Speaker 1: as bad as I think it is. Maybe what I'm
Speaker 1: seeing is something, you know, maybe I'm the crazy one.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's my fault, you know, and you start to
Speaker 1: think that way. It really do. I mean, we have
Speaker 1: especially when you have multiple people who were you were
Speaker 1: friends with or were our friends at the time, saying that, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're going to think, well, it must be me, right.
Speaker 1: So I started telling people about what was going on,
Speaker 1: and I remember being at my home and I got
Speaker 1: a phone call from his mom saying, why are you
Speaker 1: spreading these lives? Good God, Christ, there is whipped cream
Speaker 1: on top of the cherry on top of the ship Sunday.
Speaker 1: I just that, that to me was very shocking. I
Speaker 1: was like, why are you calling me? Why? I guess
Speaker 1: calling too much run from a family. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that get we have a family plan, right, we
Speaker 1: all call Ashley for free unlimited. It's Tuesday, call Ashley. Wow?
Speaker 1: And what did your parents know that he entered your
Speaker 1: dorm room and that ship? Like they did? So I
Speaker 1: moved out after that. I moved out and into uh
Speaker 1: with with a guy actually, um, a guy roommate or
Speaker 1: a good guy roommate. I moved in with a guy
Speaker 1: roommate and um, I didn't tell anyone where I lived.
Speaker 1: Did you tell him what was going on? Like? Hey,
Speaker 1: if this guy he didn't he knew. Yes, he did know,
Speaker 1: and he was aware and he understood and he was
Speaker 1: very supportive. That's really nice of him to be, like oh.
Speaker 1: I was like, Hi, I'm actually have a crazy ex boyfriend, right, perfect,
Speaker 1: I'll be but I pay rent on time, right good credit,
Speaker 1: giving an extra fifty bucks if he comes around. Yeah
Speaker 1: yeah no so Um but I didn't tell anyone where
Speaker 1: I lived. I didn't tell give anyone my phone number.
Speaker 1: As are isolated for a very long time because I
Speaker 1: didn't know who was listening, who was his friend, what
Speaker 1: would happen. I didn't know anything. I was off Facebook,
Speaker 1: I was off any social media for a long time.
Speaker 1: I used to black out, like any um male I
Speaker 1: got if I threw it in the trash. I blacked
Speaker 1: it out first because I didn't want any mo. Yeah. God.
Speaker 1: I used to you know, request any information that had
Speaker 1: me online to be taken down like I was. I would.
Speaker 1: I would google myself. That was your hobby. It was
Speaker 1: deleting your tracks. I should have been a private investigator.
Speaker 1: So I should have been an actress and a private investigator.
Speaker 1: Um but yeah no, So I would. I would go
Speaker 1: online and I would see if anything could trace back
Speaker 1: to me, and I would you know, email them to
Speaker 1: get my stuff off. And I was just very vigilant
Speaker 1: about trying to make sure that there was nothing that
Speaker 1: could ever trace to who I was or where I was.
Speaker 1: Did you ever consider like actually changing your identity like
Speaker 1: your name or UM? I didn't know, um, but when
Speaker 1: I probably would have this. I'm just giving you options,
Speaker 1: you know, for the end of now sometimes you're stacy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: when did the when did this end? Um? It started
Speaker 1: to taper off after about eight months, nine months into
Speaker 1: the from the eight months from the start from up okay?
Speaker 1: And was there a culmination like why did he finally
Speaker 1: just give up? I wish I knew I had a
Speaker 1: dead or alive um while he's alive, because every now
Speaker 1: and then I get fuck still and you're you're a lawyer,
Speaker 1: I am, can you do anything? I mean, is there
Speaker 1: any actions? Because obviously the law so you know, there's
Speaker 1: no threats, there's no anything. I mean, it's just every
Speaker 1: once in a while he'll reach out and say, you know, hey,
Speaker 1: how are you? And I'm like, please, please, don't don't
Speaker 1: text me, you don't call me, don't facebook me, don't
Speaker 1: do anything. And then he'll be like you stupid bitch,
Speaker 1: like I don't understand, like why you think this was
Speaker 1: like my fault? And he just there's just no selderstanding, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're thirty, And I was like, this was years ago.
Speaker 1: The last time I actually had any any like, the
Speaker 1: last time he sent things was probably a few years ago.
Speaker 1: So it's been a few years now. But still, I mean, I, oh, man,
Speaker 1: that guy is just out there and fucking being psych
Speaker 1: Oh god, damn it. That's horrifying. And it's also like,
Speaker 1: did you ever think of like setting flowers instead of
Speaker 1: facebooking someone? You're a stupid bitch. I feel like that
Speaker 1: how you get a girl? I don't know, to be fair,
Speaker 1: the flowers that I would would have gotten would have
Speaker 1: been dead or something, right, right, Yeah, Actually it's so
Speaker 1: creative like that bit moji, let me love you yea. Um,
Speaker 1: and know when you were in college, you were studying
Speaker 1: law or that was a that was graduate school, and
Speaker 1: that was that was I studied very unusful things. When
Speaker 1: did the eating disorders stop? That's that was on and
Speaker 1: off for a very long time. Um, because I didn't
Speaker 1: you know, I got therapy right after and during what
Speaker 1: was going on. But um, the person that I had,
Speaker 1: and I think this is something that's so important. You
Speaker 1: need to have a relatable therapist. And I just remember
Speaker 1: sitting there thinking that this person has absolutely annoyed you
Speaker 1: know what I've ever gone through. She's sitting there telling
Speaker 1: me how I should be feeling, what I should be doing,
Speaker 1: you know, the diagnosis from a book, and she was
Speaker 1: just it just it didn't feel like she had ever
Speaker 1: experienced anything remotely related to what I had gone through.
Speaker 1: Some therapists are not good, No, and you need to
Speaker 1: end that therapist might have been fantastic for someone else,
Speaker 1: but you need to You need to be able to
Speaker 1: relate to your therapist because if you're going to be
Speaker 1: trying to fix yourself and you're trying to kind of
Speaker 1: this is a person that's giving you kind of advice
Speaker 1: or you know, listening to things and kind of explaining things,
Speaker 1: you need to trust that person. And if you don't
Speaker 1: relate to that person, you're not going to trust that person. UM.
Speaker 1: So it took a lot of years for me to
Speaker 1: find someone that I started to relate to who I
Speaker 1: thought was doing um, who had gone through something of
Speaker 1: her own. Yeah, that's super helpful. Yeah, and I felt
Speaker 1: understood what it was like feeling so depressed feelings. So
Speaker 1: because I was very depressed, like I remember, it was
Speaker 1: a very long time where I couldn't remember what it
Speaker 1: was like to laugh because I actually thought something was funny.
Speaker 1: I just started laughing because it was what you were
Speaker 1: supposed to do, holy fun Like I was just so depressed.
Speaker 1: I was so unhappy. I um, you know I was.
Speaker 1: I didn't have eating disorders under control. I wasn't necessarily
Speaker 1: eight pounds anymore, but I was still falling into that
Speaker 1: kind of routine of things. When things would get stressful,
Speaker 1: I would still, you know, purge, I would I was like,
Speaker 1: what kind of it? So you were eating and purging,
Speaker 1: binging and purging or yeah, more just like I would
Speaker 1: eat and I would be like, I can't the too
Speaker 1: many calories, and I would purge ship and that was
Speaker 1: that affecting like I know a lot of times, like
Speaker 1: it turns like the clothes, your fingernails or your teeth,
Speaker 1: or like you get you ruin, like your actual insides
Speaker 1: like yeah, I had, I had, um, I had Uh
Speaker 1: why can't I think of it right now? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but ulcers. And so it wasn't until later on that
Speaker 1: I actually met um this internist who uh put me
Speaker 1: on prozac and she said prozac actually helps with bulimia
Speaker 1: as well. It actually decreases your urges to throw up. UM.
Speaker 1: And she I mean it not only changed my life
Speaker 1: for the better because my anxiety was down, my PTSD
Speaker 1: was so terrible. UM, but it, um, it did reduce
Speaker 1: my my desire to do that when I thought things
Speaker 1: were out of my control. UM. Yeah, that's wonderful. Um.
Speaker 1: It really was the best thing that could have ever
Speaker 1: happened to me. Because when I when I had PTSD,
Speaker 1: it was or when I was diagnosed, UM, a lot
Speaker 1: of the signs, you know, I was anxious, like whenever
Speaker 1: I get phone calls, because I had gotten so many
Speaker 1: phone calls, UM, I would get very anxious. Or knocks
Speaker 1: at the door I would get me would give me
Speaker 1: that like it would put me into a panic attack. UM.
Speaker 1: I would have nightmares um at night where people were
Speaker 1: trying to kill me, like they had you know, they
Speaker 1: were stabbing me or things like that, and I would
Speaker 1: almost feel like I was living it, and I'd wake
Speaker 1: up in complete sweats. UM. So there was a lot
Speaker 1: of those things, and and I was just so nervous
Speaker 1: that something was going to happen again. Like I was
Speaker 1: very very scared about it. UM, so very much. It
Speaker 1: changed my life, It really did. And it makes me
Speaker 1: sad that some people still think that there's there's a
Speaker 1: stigma against it and that there's something wrong with it,
Speaker 1: because you know, sometimes things are out of your control,
Speaker 1: like your chemistry is wrong or something happened to you
Speaker 1: and you just need a little bit of help, and
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that doesn't make you weak, No,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make you weak. It doesn't mean there's something
Speaker 1: wrong with you. I mean, it doesn't. You know, you're
Speaker 1: not a bad person for taking it. Like there are
Speaker 1: so many people out there taking it that are afraid
Speaker 1: to admit it. And and it's you know, and I
Speaker 1: see it too with the stuff that I do in
Speaker 1: my work. You know, people they don't they don't want
Speaker 1: to admit they have something like they're nothing wrong with me,
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with me and it and I mean,
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with everyone exactly what these superheroes, but
Speaker 1: like no one is and we all need help through
Speaker 1: some form. And it's like what help will help you
Speaker 1: the most? Because it Prozac perfect, here's a pill, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's good. God, I don't know that it's
Speaker 1: and it's not for everyone, but it was the right
Speaker 1: thing for me and I and I think that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, for people that I feel like they haven't
Speaker 1: really gained control or like therapy hasn't. It just gave
Speaker 1: me that extra push in therapy that made the things
Speaker 1: work better, like it made the things she was saying click.
Speaker 1: And I started to believe that it wasn't my fault,
Speaker 1: you know, because I would hear those things, but deep
Speaker 1: inside there was still that like it was almost like
Speaker 1: it was catching, like I couldn't I couldn't process it
Speaker 1: fully of course, because you were probably so emotionally, like
Speaker 1: beaten down by everything, by by that awful person's actions,
Speaker 1: by your friends, betraying by all of these by his
Speaker 1: fucking dumbass mom calling you saying why are you lying
Speaker 1: about my son? I mean that is eight thousand pounds
Speaker 1: of fuck and you and you've been thinking to yourself
Speaker 1: that it's your fault for so long or that you
Speaker 1: know that you could have done something differently or you
Speaker 1: could have changed things. Um, and you're in there, you know,
Speaker 1: therapy is trying to retrain, um, retrain you to kind
Speaker 1: of understand what happened, like what what what is really
Speaker 1: your fault? And that's like a mental rehabilitation, and you
Speaker 1: can't process it fully, if you know. I couldn't process
Speaker 1: it fully without before the prozac and one and so
Speaker 1: I would hear these things, but my mind would keep
Speaker 1: going back to but this, but this, but this. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't until the prozac came there that I started
Speaker 1: to think to my I started to be able to
Speaker 1: process it, and I started to be able to say
Speaker 1: understand it, like it made sense, like it didn't just
Speaker 1: make sense, like I actually felt it inside, like it
Speaker 1: was actually something that's what you need changing, right, because
Speaker 1: that's the only way you could change right. And it. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't think I mean, the therapy helped before that,
Speaker 1: but it never really worked until I started on the prosact.
Speaker 1: I am, that's great to do. Has your dose changed? No?
Speaker 1: So I, Um, I recently thought, you know, things were
Speaker 1: going well in my life. I'm going to see if
Speaker 1: I can go off, you know, And I did, and
Speaker 1: you know, No, I'm better on it. I'm a better person.
Speaker 1: I get things like there's you know, I just I
Speaker 1: function better with it and I'm okay with it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it. Five years. That's awesome. Yeah, um, you told
Speaker 1: us another story about you were drugged, yes and yes,
Speaker 1: and raped but not by awful Adam not when what? What?
Speaker 1: This is another horror story that I hear very often
Speaker 1: describe that. So, I, you know, I think, and I
Speaker 1: think a lot of times things you start to ask yourself.
Speaker 1: And I asked myself this, like why do bad things
Speaker 1: keep happening to me? Right? Um? Am I putting myself
Speaker 1: in this position? And I really think a lot of
Speaker 1: times it goes back to how your relationship, like how
Speaker 1: relationships and stuff were formed in your brain. So I
Speaker 1: was I ended up with this certain person who ended
Speaker 1: up being this terrible stalker person first and so you know,
Speaker 1: when I worked at this job, I became attracted to
Speaker 1: the same type of individual. And so you had a
Speaker 1: job at this point when you met, Right, I had
Speaker 1: a job, and um, we would go out and you know,
Speaker 1: have drinks. You know, people go out and have drinks
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um, how long ago is this mask? Uh? Yell?
Speaker 1: A long time? OK? Yeah? Um? And so I you know,
Speaker 1: I would um go out and have drinks with them
Speaker 1: after work. You know it was it was a bunch
Speaker 1: of us. And then I remember going out one time,
Speaker 1: I mean having drinks and this individual was there. This
Speaker 1: guy was there, and I had gone to the bathroom
Speaker 1: and I came back and I had maybe one drink
Speaker 1: and I had never felt as drunk as I did,
Speaker 1: and it was a drunk. It was a very weird draw.
Speaker 1: So I'm just I'm curious about what that feels like. Um,
Speaker 1: it was almost like I I knew that things were
Speaker 1: going on, but like I couldn't control my like like
Speaker 1: I couldn't walk, Like your muscles were affected, your everything
Speaker 1: was like yeah, and I was just like very dazed.
Speaker 1: I didn't really understand, Like it was very weird. And
Speaker 1: were you in a good I've heard that rufi's make
Speaker 1: you feel euphoric, which is a mind fuck because if
Speaker 1: it was that, I don't remember that. When I was
Speaker 1: rufi for me, I would explain it as like watching
Speaker 1: a movie of you. That's exactly it. Like it was
Speaker 1: almost like I knew something was happening to me, and
Speaker 1: it was almost like I was above seeing it. Yeah, yep, exactly.
Speaker 1: It's it's a very weird experience, Like I couldn't really
Speaker 1: control myself a little bit like I did. I didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like I'm doing I don't know why I'm
Speaker 1: doing this. But I'm doing this. It's very weird. It's
Speaker 1: a very light like being uh those stories you hear
Speaker 1: about when people are awake during surgery but you can't
Speaker 1: do anything about it. I almost felt like I wasn't
Speaker 1: un control of my own body. Okay, so what happens
Speaker 1: after that? So I had it was just it was
Speaker 1: it was so different than and I had been. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously I had been drunk before. It was just such
Speaker 1: a different feeling. But it was just such a different feeling,
Speaker 1: like I knew that I was intoxicated on some level,
Speaker 1: but I didn't understand it because it was a different
Speaker 1: field than I ever had in any other way. So
Speaker 1: I couldn't really walk. And he carried me back to
Speaker 1: um his car. He took away my keys because I
Speaker 1: had pepper spray on my key ring at that point
Speaker 1: because after my yeah great, UM, and we went back
Speaker 1: to his place, and I, um, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: honestly remember everything that happened to be to be honest, like,
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember, you know, saying no, I remember, um?
Speaker 1: Oh you do remember so you you had? I do?
Speaker 1: I remember saying no? Do you remember anything? He said?
Speaker 1: To you before you know, No, I don't. I remember.
Speaker 1: I remember looking down and being like, why do I
Speaker 1: not have clothes on? You know? I remember like I
Speaker 1: remember getting up out of the bed and walking out
Speaker 1: completely naked, and just like walking out of the room
Speaker 1: and walking into the living room and looking around and
Speaker 1: just trying to kind of figure everywhere, right because he
Speaker 1: was he there? Yeah, he was next to you when
Speaker 1: he woke up. No, no, no, he wasn't there. He
Speaker 1: was like he was out in the kitchen or something
Speaker 1: like getting water and what was the post rape glass
Speaker 1: of water? Yeah? What was the inter of the first
Speaker 1: verbal interaction that you guys had after he raped you?
Speaker 1: He's that I was like, what happened? Like, He's like, well,
Speaker 1: you wanted this, Oh my god? And then did that
Speaker 1: bring back feelings from your former You wanted to come home,
Speaker 1: You wanted to come home with me. You were throwing
Speaker 1: yourself on me, Oh my god, And I was like,
Speaker 1: I need to go home. And did you know that
Speaker 1: you were raped in that moment um? I think I
Speaker 1: didn't want to believe it, but you did you know
Speaker 1: um that what he was saying wasn't true, Like, no,
Speaker 1: it didn't ring his bullshit when I heard it, because
Speaker 1: you're still trying to piece it together. And I had
Speaker 1: a boyfriend at the time. Um, so I started to
Speaker 1: think to myself, oh my god, I cheated, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And he was you know, he would
Speaker 1: kind of use that. He'd be like, well, if you
Speaker 1: don't want me to tell anyone, right, did he use
Speaker 1: a condom? I have no idea, So you didn't get
Speaker 1: a kid or anything. So so I so he drove
Speaker 1: me back to my car. I got in my car
Speaker 1: and I was still intoxicated on whatever he had given me.
Speaker 1: And I drove home like that, and I don't I
Speaker 1: don't think i've ever I was so scared because I
Speaker 1: didn't know what happened to me. Really, I didn't. I
Speaker 1: don't just how would you know that? That? Oh? I
Speaker 1: was roof aid like you, I had no idea. I
Speaker 1: was still in that feeling like I was still I
Speaker 1: was still feeling the effects of it. And I was
Speaker 1: driving and I kept thinking to myself, like, you know that,
Speaker 1: what did I do? What happened? Like I couldn't figure
Speaker 1: anything out. He didn't buying a car accident on top
Speaker 1: of this, Oh my god. And so I remember getting
Speaker 1: home and I lived with my boyfriend at the time,
Speaker 1: and um, I was just like I can't get into
Speaker 1: bed with him. I'm so dirty, Like I'm so dirty.
Speaker 1: Did he did he try to contact you because you
Speaker 1: didn't come home that night? Or um? Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think I think I said, you know, I'm getting
Speaker 1: drinks with people after work, and so he was like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, no big um and then he I think
Speaker 1: I got a call before he went to bed, being like,
Speaker 1: you know, where are you? But I didn't get the
Speaker 1: until much later, so I, um, it must have been
Speaker 1: three am, four am by the time I got home.
Speaker 1: It's the middle of the night. And I just I
Speaker 1: literally turned on the shower and I just sat there
Speaker 1: for like maybe an hour. I just sat in the shower,
Speaker 1: sitting there like I was sitting. I was sitting down
Speaker 1: with the shower just running on me, just trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what was going on because I had I
Speaker 1: just I couldn't piece it together. I didn't. I like
Speaker 1: nothing was making sense to me. Um, And I just
Speaker 1: remember thinking that I couldn't get into bed with him,
Speaker 1: that I was this terrible person, and that I was dirty.
Speaker 1: And then I didn't I wasn't worth it, and um,
Speaker 1: and that was yeah. I started to think that, you
Speaker 1: know that when I went to work and I kind
Speaker 1: of confronted him about it, you know, and he was like, well,
Speaker 1: you don't remember, like this is what you did, this
Speaker 1: is what you did, but and so and then I
Speaker 1: started to think who I confronted him at work and
Speaker 1: he so he still went with the lie of you
Speaker 1: wanted it, and I started thinking, oh my god, I cheated.
Speaker 1: This is what I did. I can my boyfriend can't
Speaker 1: never find out. And were you still like did you
Speaker 1: still think that you had just really gotten too drunk?
Speaker 1: Did you realize you were roofied? Or I didn't realize
Speaker 1: that until I started talking to people who would who
Speaker 1: had it happened to, uh, who had also been roofy? Right? So, um,
Speaker 1: not by this guy in particularly, there's a support although
Speaker 1: I am sure he does that to a lot of women.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he has to. I mean, I'm sure it
Speaker 1: wasn't his first. No, I'm sure it wasn't, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't until I kind of it always felt weird, like
Speaker 1: the experience was different than anything I'd ever experienced before.
Speaker 1: So I always knew that it was a little bit weird,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't place it because obviously I've never experienced
Speaker 1: it before, right, And so it wasn't until I started
Speaker 1: talking to other people about my experience and just being
Speaker 1: like it was just so weird, like I had like
Speaker 1: one drink and and I was super drunk and I
Speaker 1: felt like this very weird sensation and things, and that
Speaker 1: I finally figured out that it was that. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't until years later. Fuck, so, yeah, you had a contact,
Speaker 1: I mean, but but I just I just want to
Speaker 1: say one thing though, even if you are even if
Speaker 1: you did drink too much, that's still rape. It's still rape.
Speaker 1: It's still rape. So no matter what, I no matter
Speaker 1: what I should have not should have, yeah, right, no
Speaker 1: matter what, it wasn't my fault, regardless of whether it
Speaker 1: was drunk or date raped. But I think that there's this,
Speaker 1: you know, and I started to, you know, I started
Speaker 1: I was this person who went online and I started to,
Speaker 1: you know, look at things like do you think that
Speaker 1: this person cheated if they you know, we're drunk and
Speaker 1: have sex or something like that, And there's such this
Speaker 1: there's such this um this victim blaming out there that
Speaker 1: you know, it kind of fed into everything I was
Speaker 1: thinking too. But you see these things on like like oh,
Speaker 1: they're drinking too much, like asking for it, and that's
Speaker 1: not that that's that should never be, that's not that's
Speaker 1: not the law. And that's one of the things that
Speaker 1: got me into low too. Is the one thing that
Speaker 1: really resonated with me was when I looked at what
Speaker 1: the law was and what consent was and I realized
Speaker 1: that I was legally unlike incapable of consent, and it
Speaker 1: resonated with me. That was the one thing that I
Speaker 1: started to be like, Okay, maybe it wasn't my fault,
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm not the one to be a blame. Maybe
Speaker 1: like this, you know that that's what really got me
Speaker 1: um got kind of started like flipping that switch um
Speaker 1: in me. It was actually one of the things that
Speaker 1: my therapist kind of brought up because she knew that
Speaker 1: I was a little bit more logical in some respects.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously most of the stuff is very emotional,
Speaker 1: but she knew that lodge logical girl, logic, you are
Speaker 1: logic really resonated with me, and so she started using
Speaker 1: that And that's one of the things that I really
Speaker 1: kind of um gravitated towards was the law and how
Speaker 1: it defined things and how you know a person incapable
Speaker 1: of consent was defined and things like that. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: but just at that point they to realize. So just
Speaker 1: look into the law and like just after that happened
Speaker 1: to you like that, that's that's such a beautiful way
Speaker 1: to discover your career. I mean, it's horrible that that happened,
Speaker 1: but like, fuck, man, I I can't I think it
Speaker 1: would make a passionate lawyer. Yeah, exact, I bet you're
Speaker 1: the fucking greatest lawyer ever. Seriously, what is the law?
Speaker 1: Say out of curiosity about what if both individuals are
Speaker 1: intoxicated and like so and then the girl says because
Speaker 1: usually it's just a girl, you know, girls get the
Speaker 1: first small get drunk. So what if the girl says no,
Speaker 1: but the guy is also drunk, Like what is the law?
Speaker 1: Like that? It's it's so great, Yeah it is. I mean,
Speaker 1: I honestly I don't know. Well the is there are
Speaker 1: ray is of rape, but not according to the law.
Speaker 1: And that's because when when Because you're starting to look
Speaker 1: at intent right at that point, So it was a
Speaker 1: person capable of forming intent. Yeah, because in your first
Speaker 1: ever relationship, though, you said you were forced to have sex.
Speaker 1: I mean, was that rape? Yeah, that would have been Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's n I mean I think so, but I don't
Speaker 1: know with the law define that as rape. Like if
Speaker 1: you say no, yes, yeah, I was like, as soon
Speaker 1: as you say no and the other person keeps going,
Speaker 1: it's how do they prove that you said no? That's
Speaker 1: the fucking that crazy part, right, you know. And and
Speaker 1: you see this in a lot of um crimes that
Speaker 1: we have now, a lot of the child sex abuse crimes,
Speaker 1: they don't prosecute it because it's a he said, she said,
Speaker 1: And god damn, is there any other way the lot
Speaker 1: that's so interesting because like a kid probably isn't saying
Speaker 1: no because they don't what the funk is going on.
Speaker 1: But obviously, I mean for other legal reasons. It's I
Speaker 1: guess the law because a minor it's incest, I mean
Speaker 1: what so many reasons. Yeah, I just say yeah, no,
Speaker 1: And and and you know a lot of times, UM
Speaker 1: having someone come in and testify is so traumatizing, right,
Speaker 1: It's it's a very hard thing to go and relive
Speaker 1: and in front of I wish people understood that people
Speaker 1: don't like the cause people ship like in the I'm
Speaker 1: just like, how do you not see? How can you
Speaker 1: criticize these women? Like what you're asking someone to um
Speaker 1: to talk about probably the most horrible time in their life,
Speaker 1: something that they might not even understand is not not
Speaker 1: being their fault at this point because it's probably still fresh.
Speaker 1: They might not understand like fully or or have come
Speaker 1: to terms with it. And you're asking this person to
Speaker 1: share the deepest, darkest, most powerful emotions with a bunch
Speaker 1: of strangers, and it might not work, it might not
Speaker 1: even and then they're gonna cross examined by someone who's
Speaker 1: going to ask you, um various things like a wall,
Speaker 1: isn't it true that you know you said yes or
Speaker 1: you never said no? Or wait, huh ship that I
Speaker 1: think because you're yeah, you don't yeah? Is that? Am
Speaker 1: I goodnough? Okay? UM, they're asking you things, you know,
Speaker 1: like isn't it true that you were you know you
Speaker 1: wanted it or you you know they're they're start trying
Speaker 1: to win their kids. You're trying exactly every weight rape
Speaker 1: victim in a court case have to get cross examined. Yes, so, UM,
Speaker 1: if you are testifying, then the opposing counsel has the
Speaker 1: right to cross examine you because they had the right
Speaker 1: to bring up any sort of biases, any sort of
Speaker 1: holes in the story, anything like that. And when you're
Speaker 1: dealing with rape fun off, you should like, I don't
Speaker 1: can't imagine anything that they would ask to be any
Speaker 1: of any decency, you know what I mean, Like just
Speaker 1: if they're taking the case, they have have to do
Speaker 1: because they I mean, if you don't, if you don't
Speaker 1: want your job prosecute, you shouldn't take the case. Um.
Speaker 1: And so you know, with kids, you see, you don't
Speaker 1: you don't want to subject them to a having to
Speaker 1: retell the story and be the cross examination. So a
Speaker 1: lot of times they don't bring things to to court
Speaker 1: or they don't have the evidence to like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's beyond a reasonable doubt. So that's a very high
Speaker 1: burden of evidence. And now you work with you've worked
Speaker 1: with kids who have been raped, yes, and you've worked
Speaker 1: with women who have been abused I have, yes? And
Speaker 1: what was you you mentioned the site of an initial case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so one of the first cases that I ever worked on,
Speaker 1: UM was this UM. This individual she UM. She was
Speaker 1: coming out of an abusive relationship. She was getting in
Speaker 1: order a restraining order, or she had gotten a restraining order.
Speaker 1: That's how she was referred. UM and she UM she
Speaker 1: had been married to this individual for twenty years, you know,
Speaker 1: just in this abusive relationship. He was in law enforcement
Speaker 1: UM and I think he was a cop. Yeah. Fuck.
Speaker 1: And it's super common the ship bag is in law
Speaker 1: enforcement or the military. Across the street, neighbors. This is
Speaker 1: very uh much like this. UM. So he I don't
Speaker 1: the the exact thing that happened that brought it in.
Speaker 1: I don't remember specifically, but I know that he had
Speaker 1: threatened at gum point to rape her and kill her.
Speaker 1: So we got referred the case, and she wanted to
Speaker 1: file for divorce. UM. So we were going to do
Speaker 1: the divorce. We were going to do the divorce paperwork.
Speaker 1: So she came in and we talked UM, and we
Speaker 1: really connected because she felt a lot of the same
Speaker 1: things that I had felt, you know, like, what what
Speaker 1: could I have done differently? Um? Is this my fault?
Speaker 1: Should I really be leaving like all of these things?
Speaker 1: You know, feeling blame if anyone you're in a relationship
Speaker 1: with threatens to rape and kill you. Yes, you should
Speaker 1: leave the relationship. Okay, I agree, but and but you
Speaker 1: know how hard that can be. Yes, and so and
Speaker 1: you know, and I and I we became it was
Speaker 1: it was very interesting for me to be the person
Speaker 1: who was able to say no, you know, it is
Speaker 1: not your fault. Because what a powerful moment it was.
Speaker 1: It was really big and we we I I felt
Speaker 1: I hope she did. But I felt very connected to
Speaker 1: her at that moment because it was very much UM.
Speaker 1: We had shared experiences and even though hers they were
Speaker 1: different UM and she obviously was in a marriage and
Speaker 1: I wasn't. UM, the feelings weren't different. The feelings that
Speaker 1: she was experiencing and the concerns and just the emotions
Speaker 1: were the same. And you got to be the confidant
Speaker 1: or the friend for her in addition to being a
Speaker 1: lawyer that you needed at that time too, like because
Speaker 1: because all your friends at that time where you were
Speaker 1: in that relationship, it was it was a little bit later,
Speaker 1: and but I still think it was nice to have
Speaker 1: someone who under there's you know, there's so few people
Speaker 1: that I've come across who understand what I went through
Speaker 1: UM to an extent that she did. It was nice
Speaker 1: to It was almost like bonding. It was very nice
Speaker 1: to have someone who I could almost explain my crazy
Speaker 1: feelings or like, you know, the things that I had
Speaker 1: thought before, and her be like, yeah, I totally get it.
Speaker 1: I did that too. A nice moment, like and then
Speaker 1: it makes you not feel crazy. You're like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: the other person thought that too. It was so nice, Right,
Speaker 1: I'm not the only one in the world, right. Um.
Speaker 1: And so we had come up with a plan. We
Speaker 1: had come up with you know, we'd written everything up,
Speaker 1: we had everything, and I said, you know, we're not
Speaker 1: going to file until you feel comfortable, um, because she
Speaker 1: was worried that he would do something when they was
Speaker 1: gonna say what's like what what yea, what is a divorce?
Speaker 1: Like when there's actual security concerns, we usually come up
Speaker 1: with like a safety plan for that person. So either
Speaker 1: they they they we we come up with a time
Speaker 1: in which you're going to divorce, and there's usually they're
Speaker 1: out of the state or they're somewhere else. That's wonderful
Speaker 1: to know that that's something that that's what I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what we used to do, used to come up
Speaker 1: with like a safety plan for that. Individuals say okay,
Speaker 1: well you let me know when you want to file,
Speaker 1: and and we'll wait, you know, maybe a day or
Speaker 1: two and you'll be out of the states and then
Speaker 1: you know you'll be safe something like that. And you know,
Speaker 1: things like I knew that she would never answer my phone,
Speaker 1: so I would have to you know, my phone call,
Speaker 1: so I would leave a message and she would call
Speaker 1: me back. You know, this is this is like the
Speaker 1: normal things that we did. It was just our safety planning. UM.
Speaker 1: So she came to us maybe a month or two later.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm ready, you know, I'm finally ready
Speaker 1: to to file. And I said, okay, well you know
Speaker 1: when do you want to do it? When you're like
Speaker 1: where we had the safety plan, you're gonna go oh no, no, no.
Speaker 1: I feel you know, I feel good. Nothing has happened
Speaker 1: in the past couple of months, and I feel very good.
Speaker 1: I don't think anything is going to go wrong. Are
Speaker 1: you sure? You know? Please reconsider? No, no, no, I
Speaker 1: think that everything is going to be fine. So we
Speaker 1: file the papers. UM, and I get a phone call
Speaker 1: a couple of days later. Our actually I had tried
Speaker 1: calling her that day, UM, and I left a message
Speaker 1: and she didn't call right back, and I was like,
Speaker 1: something is a little bit off. I just I felt
Speaker 1: like it had been filed. You called her, I had
Speaker 1: been filed for like it filed. And then this is
Speaker 1: a couple of days later, I called her just to
Speaker 1: see how she was doing. UM, and she almost always
Speaker 1: called me back and I and I had that sinking
Speaker 1: feeling in your gut, you know that you just know
Speaker 1: that something's wrong. And I told some of the people
Speaker 1: I was working with. I was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: something just feels off, Something just feels wrong. And UM,
Speaker 1: So I had actually called him. He wasn't represented at
Speaker 1: the time, so I called him to try to set
Speaker 1: up a time that to where he would be out
Speaker 1: of the house that she could come over and pick
Speaker 1: up her stuff. So I was trying to coordinate something
Speaker 1: and he didn't respond. He didn't answer. I left a message, UM,
Speaker 1: and I went back to work and I just something
Speaker 1: just didn't feel right. And I got a phone call, um,
Speaker 1: maybe forty five minutes later from another her attorney saying,
Speaker 1: you know, we just wanted to make sure that you knew.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what are you talking about? And
Speaker 1: she said, we want to make sure you you, you know,
Speaker 1: knew what was going on. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: have no idea what divorce. I have no idea what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. And She's like, well, he came to
Speaker 1: her work and he killed her and he killed himself. UM.
Speaker 1: And I was in shock. Um he killed her at
Speaker 1: her work. I mean he killed her, he came to
Speaker 1: her work and then just shot himself right after that.
Speaker 1: Fuck yeah. Um, and oh my god. And I just
Speaker 1: remember thinking I can't believe this is happening, like this,
Speaker 1: this is not real. Um. I just it was very
Speaker 1: It was very surreal. UM. And I was shaking. I
Speaker 1: was very it was it brought me back to a
Speaker 1: very bad place of course. UM. And then I started
Speaker 1: to feel guilty. I was gonna say, did you start
Speaker 1: blaming her self again? I did, because well, I mean actually,
Speaker 1: but even even if you were to blame yourself, think
Speaker 1: anyone I was. I was afraid that, um, her family
Speaker 1: would be you know, like what did you do or
Speaker 1: or something like that. It was it couldn't have been
Speaker 1: further from the truth. Um. They ended up coming up
Speaker 1: to us later and we the she's her family said,
Speaker 1: you know, um, I just want you to know that
Speaker 1: you guys helped give her the best few months of
Speaker 1: her life. Oh my god, but but you know it's
Speaker 1: it's sad that. I mean, yeah, it was bad. How
Speaker 1: are you doing now, girl, Jesus Christ, I don't even know.
Speaker 1: We have to wrap kind of soon. I will talk
Speaker 1: for eight more hours. You you mentioned that you are divorced.
Speaker 1: So where where does that relationship? When did that relationship
Speaker 1: come into play? Um? So it came into play um
Speaker 1: a little bit after um the stocking ended. And so
Speaker 1: it was a long relationship. Oh the was this the
Speaker 1: guy that you had been raped? The person you were okay?
Speaker 1: Was this the person you were saying when you were raped?
Speaker 1: They raped? Yes? Okay, okay. So did you ever end
Speaker 1: up end up telling him what happened? I did, Um,
Speaker 1: I did later, and UM, I was so afraid of
Speaker 1: how it was going to be taken. Um. But he
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't It wasn't as big of a
Speaker 1: deal as I thought it was going to be portive
Speaker 1: because I think I think he was a little bit
Speaker 1: frustrated that I didn't feel like I could tell him
Speaker 1: when it happened that I was so afraid, Um, that
Speaker 1: that that notion is I see that in the media.
Speaker 1: I see that in famous cases, like you said, it's
Speaker 1: not about you, I know, Like, but why would you
Speaker 1: ever say that to him? I mean, you just can't.
Speaker 1: Just people have this thing and when they can't understand something,
Speaker 1: it means that the way you handled it was dumb
Speaker 1: or role or like. No. I mean, um, and I
Speaker 1: I understand that it's got to be difficult for I've
Speaker 1: only been on one side, right, and it's got to
Speaker 1: be difficult for the person on the other side who
Speaker 1: feels like, you know, there's nothing they can do to
Speaker 1: protect this person, something terrible happened to them. There's nothing
Speaker 1: they can do to make this person feel better. There's
Speaker 1: nothing they can you know that it happened while that
Speaker 1: they were dating, So I I do, UM have some
Speaker 1: sympathy and that, you know, I don't know what it
Speaker 1: was like to be the person hearing that and knowing
Speaker 1: that this, you know, the person you love, this happened
Speaker 1: to the person you loved and there's nothing you could
Speaker 1: have done about it. Or it's like a man feeling helplessness,
Speaker 1: which I think is something that men aren't really comfortable
Speaker 1: feeling very much. I don't necessarily think that he handled
Speaker 1: it in the best way that it could have been.
Speaker 1: But I don't think it was unsupportive. It just so yeah,
Speaker 1: because I could see out of love, like what the funk?
Speaker 1: What did it? Because he just wanted you to he
Speaker 1: has I think, I think you know, and what is
Speaker 1: the proper way to handle something like that? Of course
Speaker 1: we're all figuring you don't know until it happens to you,
Speaker 1: right so Um, But yeah, no, I mean I ended
Speaker 1: up telling it was it was a big weight lifted
Speaker 1: off um me when I when I did eventually tell
Speaker 1: the people around me, because I kept it in for
Speaker 1: a very long time and didn't tell anyone at The
Speaker 1: first people I told were my parents. Um. They knew
Speaker 1: something was going on. They could tell, they could see
Speaker 1: that I was really carrying some burden. Um. And I
Speaker 1: finally told them and they were like, it wasn't your fault,
Speaker 1: Like that was the first thing they said to me. Um.
Speaker 1: And then I would say I probably helped you here.
Speaker 1: It did. But at that point I had been I was,
Speaker 1: I had been telling myself and I had a certain
Speaker 1: way of thinking for so long that it was so
Speaker 1: hard to think anything else. Um. I would like argue
Speaker 1: with them. I was like, but but you know, and um,
Speaker 1: you know it was it probably was gosh, seven months
Speaker 1: later that I told my boyfriend. So it was a
Speaker 1: long time. And did you ever take legal action against it? Didn't?
Speaker 1: Did you ever think about yeah, patients, like because did?
Speaker 1: Don't you have to get evidence within a certain amount
Speaker 1: of time, like biological like I mean, well, I mean
Speaker 1: if you if you want to be able to prove it,
Speaker 1: then you're going to need something like that. Otherwise it's
Speaker 1: going to be a circumstantial case. So one of the
Speaker 1: things that because I think that you telling us all
Speaker 1: these stories is going to help so many people that
Speaker 1: you know have been in similar situations. You're a lawyer,
Speaker 1: you work with people that you help people through these things.
Speaker 1: To to question two of your situations. So, if someone
Speaker 1: is raped or they think they were raped, what is
Speaker 1: the best ideal thing to do next? And go to
Speaker 1: the police and tell them what happened and hopefully there's
Speaker 1: something on you, some sort of biological evidence or something
Speaker 1: like that. But I think versus a hospital, don't go
Speaker 1: to the hospital first to get the Generally, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can go to the hospital, but if you go
Speaker 1: to the police station, they'll take you to the hospital
Speaker 1: to Okay, sorry, I say, if you're you're at the
Speaker 1: hospital when they send a police officer to the hospital, yeah, okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: so you could like literally you've ever had a traumatic
Speaker 1: experience police, you could go to the hospital. I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: so just go to some sort of something like that.
Speaker 1: And how soon do you have? How soon should you go?
Speaker 1: Obviously I understand someone not wanting to go right away
Speaker 1: you've just been through something extremely traumatic, But if you
Speaker 1: can muster it up, how soon would you reckon? I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean you want to go as soon as you can,
Speaker 1: because you know, evidence starts to deteriorate after time. How
Speaker 1: many days you do you do? From a lawyer's perspective,
Speaker 1: like how many days could someone wait? Like what's the
Speaker 1: longest amount of period they could wait to go to
Speaker 1: the police or the hospital? I mean a week at
Speaker 1: people who come in weeks later and tell their story,
Speaker 1: but then they don't have anything necessarily any Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean ideally you're you're getting out of the situation as
Speaker 1: safely as possible and then going to literally immediately to
Speaker 1: this pretty much the option if you if you can
Speaker 1: kind of just like almost like black out and like
Speaker 1: put like I'll deal with these emotions in a sec
Speaker 1: and just fucking I mean, if you are a wonder woman,
Speaker 1: honestly that is that is what you know, that is
Speaker 1: the best thing to do. Is I love that you
Speaker 1: describe it that way, because that that has got to
Speaker 1: be a very hard I mean, no one and how
Speaker 1: do you know your body was taken advance? Your body
Speaker 1: was violated. You're not thinking straight, you have no idea
Speaker 1: what's going on, You're feeling all out of sorts. You know,
Speaker 1: very few people are just going to automatically think no,
Speaker 1: of course, now just go to the office. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And also I think we're a lot of times we
Speaker 1: hear stories about people going to the police similar to
Speaker 1: your story and not being believed. And I think that's
Speaker 1: that's going to be the nail on the coffins. You're raped,
Speaker 1: and then you go to the someone who's supposed to
Speaker 1: help you, and then they question, right, you know what
Speaker 1: if like a condom was used and they can't have
Speaker 1: there's no biological evidence or something like that. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different things or um, you know
Speaker 1: what if you decided like to take a shower before
Speaker 1: you went and then you've you know, gotten rid of stuff,
Speaker 1: so you know it's and it's hard because we see
Speaker 1: this stuff a lot where you know, when it's just
Speaker 1: someone testifying to what happened, it's very hard. It's very
Speaker 1: hard to prove it because the innocent until proven guilty
Speaker 1: thing can be a great thing. But in the case
Speaker 1: of sexual assault, man, that ship is so they don't
Speaker 1: you don't want someone going to jail who didn't do
Speaker 1: but you also don't want but it also is such
Speaker 1: a um he said. She said crime that it is
Speaker 1: very it can be very difficult to prove. And we
Speaker 1: get emails from people in abusive relationships like currently they're
Speaker 1: currently emotional and physic and physical. We've gotten questions from
Speaker 1: is this an abusive relationship? Should I get out of it?
Speaker 1: How do I get out of it? And I We
Speaker 1: have no answers for these people because you can't answer
Speaker 1: that question unless you're a psychologist who has studied it
Speaker 1: or you've been through it yourself. What would you say
Speaker 1: to that to those questions? I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: know you're not the end, but like from your based
Speaker 1: on your experience, I feel like hearing from you like,
Speaker 1: what what should I do? How do I recognize it's
Speaker 1: an abusive relationship in one of the next steps to
Speaker 1: get out of it? Like that would probably be really helpful,
Speaker 1: you know. I it's such a hard thing because everyone
Speaker 1: everyone's experience is different, you know, an emotional abuse, UM,
Speaker 1: physical abuse, sexual abuse, You're going to be experiencing different things,
Speaker 1: but you're gonna is going to be a control aspect
Speaker 1: to it. But the hard thing is is recognizing it.
Speaker 1: The hard thing is recognizing that there's this person. But
Speaker 1: there's there's what's called, um it's the cycle of domestic violence.
Speaker 1: It's like a wheel type thing. You can actually look
Speaker 1: it up on the internet and it's basically like a
Speaker 1: person acts and then they say they're sorry, and then
Speaker 1: they come back into your life and then they do
Speaker 1: some sort of violent action. They say they're sorry, and
Speaker 1: it's this it's this wheel that happens, a cycle that happens.
Speaker 1: And if you're starting to notice that this person is
Speaker 1: like hitting you or saying these things to you, or
Speaker 1: controlling that you know, doing you know, controlling your bank account,
Speaker 1: wanting to know where you are all the time. UM,
Speaker 1: those are all very you know, those are signs of
Speaker 1: a manipulative a controlling person if if they're um, you know,
Speaker 1: getting angry, violent things like that, and then they come
Speaker 1: back and they're like, I'm so sorry, I'm never going
Speaker 1: to do this again, like I don't know what happened.
Speaker 1: Like that's a sign that this person is um manipulating you.
Speaker 1: They're trying to get back into your good your good
Speaker 1: graces so they can do it again. And if you
Speaker 1: if they start to kind of put it on you,
Speaker 1: put the blame on you, like, well you did this,
Speaker 1: well you did this, you know, not being able to
Speaker 1: accept responsibility. That's another thing that you need to start
Speaker 1: looking looking at um and thinking to yourself, this person
Speaker 1: is trying to manipulate me. They're trying they they are
Speaker 1: making it so it's my fault, so that I I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm indebted to this person or I'm like
Speaker 1: grateful that this person is not leaving me, Like how
Speaker 1: could anyone love me? Yeah, And do you think if
Speaker 1: you were six team before you met that first boyfriend,
Speaker 1: if you were abusive relationships something that we've talked about
Speaker 1: in school for your parents in the media, like did
Speaker 1: you have any idea about abusive relationships? Before you got
Speaker 1: into I mean, I guess I knew they existed, but
Speaker 1: I didn't really know anything about it, you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't know what to look for because god damn police
Speaker 1: officers in school and we're middle school, they tell us
Speaker 1: about drugs, They tell us about weed and pain and
Speaker 1: heroin and not no one. I'm like, like three people
Speaker 1: are going to do that. A lot more people are
Speaker 1: going to be in relationship. Twenty of us is gonna do.
Speaker 1: But we don't fucking cover consent, the signs of abusive
Speaker 1: they're nothing. It's not covered, no. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: the good thing is is that just even within these
Speaker 1: past what ten five years, this kind of stuff is
Speaker 1: becoming more and more um common. I think that people
Speaker 1: are starting to understand it more. I think it's starting
Speaker 1: to be talked about more. I think there's still a
Speaker 1: lot of work that needs to be done. Um. I
Speaker 1: think there's still a lot of discussions that need to
Speaker 1: be had. I think that people need to stop, um,
Speaker 1: feeling afraid of what they went through and not to
Speaker 1: say I don't want to. I don't want anyone out
Speaker 1: there thinking that, um, you went through something, you can't
Speaker 1: talk about it and you're you know, bad or anything
Speaker 1: in in in something. But I also think that you know,
Speaker 1: there isn't anything wrong with what happened to you. You know,
Speaker 1: there's nothing to be ashamed of, there's nothing to be
Speaker 1: afraid of. There's nothing to be scared about or to
Speaker 1: feel bad about or anything like that. It happened to you,
Speaker 1: and you are the person you are now because of it.
Speaker 1: And that's what I try to tell myself, Like I
Speaker 1: tried to make meaning come from what I did, um
Speaker 1: and I try to talk about it now because I
Speaker 1: want people to learn from what what happened to me,
Speaker 1: um and Kanda. After after a while, people keep speaking out.
Speaker 1: You can't ignore thousands and things, you know, when when
Speaker 1: people start, you know, make people take responsibility for their actions,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean yeah, for sure, um So and
Speaker 1: I think you know there's this, you know, for for
Speaker 1: so long it was you know, boys will be boys. Still.
Speaker 1: I just thought a shirt that said boys will be
Speaker 1: boys in the second boys is cross out and it
Speaker 1: says held accountable. I'm really proud of that and I
Speaker 1: love it. Thanks Olivia. That's so good from from feminist
Speaker 1: getting my shot ot there great feminist peril. Yeah, but no,
Speaker 1: I mean absolutely becau. When I saw that shirt, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, finally someone in I make fun of
Speaker 1: T shirts all the time, but I was like, finally,
Speaker 1: someone in a T shirt wrapped up an idea that
Speaker 1: I've been thinking for a real fucking long time. So
Speaker 1: thank you. I mean, it's you know, it's that thought
Speaker 1: that like, oh, well, girls wore that, so they must
Speaker 1: have wanted sex or something. But the boys were just drinking.
Speaker 1: Like do you know how they are they get they
Speaker 1: just do those things. It's like, no, that's not that's
Speaker 1: not okay. You boys can't control their penis or something
Speaker 1: like I know a lot of boys who gets a
Speaker 1: little insulting. I know a lot of people who can.
Speaker 1: But people still fucking say that. I watched that, we
Speaker 1: talked about it. The Audrey and Daisy documentary is about
Speaker 1: rape and this police officer that handled the case. At
Speaker 1: first I was on his side. I was like, look,
Speaker 1: he's getting evidence, he's interviewing people four hours after it
Speaker 1: was reported. And then by the end I wanted to
Speaker 1: fucking kill this guy because he was stillmaking made you
Speaker 1: feel both ways the same character solutely great documentary, but
Speaker 1: he was basically saying, you know, these boys are just
Speaker 1: trying to move on with their lives, and it's these
Speaker 1: girls that won't let them forget it. They're trying to
Speaker 1: get justice. You fuck are like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: can't believe people still say boys will be boys, let
Speaker 1: alone a fucking law enforcement Oh my god. And I
Speaker 1: do want to say that I do work with law enforcement,
Speaker 1: and I have worked with, you know, with military people,
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of really fantastic Oh yes
Speaker 1: people out there. Would say most are and the shitty
Speaker 1: ones get the spotlight, and that sucks. I think that's
Speaker 1: very true. I think, um, you know, people are very
Speaker 1: afraid to go to the police. But a lot of times, Um,
Speaker 1: the biggest advocates that I've seen are these police officers.
Speaker 1: You know, they come in and they testify, and they
Speaker 1: they are the ones who want justice more than anyone else. Like,
Speaker 1: they are the ones who are outraged by what had happened.
Speaker 1: They are the ones who are you know, sitting there
Speaker 1: advocating for these people that came in and told them
Speaker 1: their story whatever happened, whether it be a sex crime
Speaker 1: or something like that. Um. And so I have come
Speaker 1: across some really really fantastic police officers who are um,
Speaker 1: just going above and beyond what they need to be doing. UM.
Speaker 1: And so I think, UM, I mean, I know that
Speaker 1: people out there have probably gone and have experienced the
Speaker 1: complete opposite, but I mean my my advice, and obviously,
Speaker 1: like I experienced a complete opposite. But I still would say,
Speaker 1: you know, your best chance is to go and tell someone,
Speaker 1: to tell the authorities to you know, the worst thing
Speaker 1: for me, I always regretted, you know, not going and
Speaker 1: doing more and pursuing more, because I think it would
Speaker 1: have given me a sense of like, um, justice or
Speaker 1: a sense of like yeah, exactly. And you know, so
Speaker 1: I always tell people, you know, before they go to testify.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of them don't want to. And
Speaker 1: I said that this is your time. This is your
Speaker 1: time to get out, you know, to do everything that
Speaker 1: you can do for yourself. This is your time to
Speaker 1: to get everything out, to tell, to tell someone um
Speaker 1: and to take control of what happened. And there's something
Speaker 1: very empowering about doing that, regardless of you know, what
Speaker 1: what happens. There's something very empowering about standing up for yourself,
Speaker 1: about telling your story, about advocating for yourself, UM and
Speaker 1: and it's it's something that I always wish that I
Speaker 1: did more of. And it's something that I always really
Speaker 1: try to promote UM girls or even boys, you know,
Speaker 1: men out there who are victims to to do as well,
Speaker 1: because there's you know, there's a lot of men male victims.
Speaker 1: I learned, and it's like and then once it's explained,
Speaker 1: like oh, the masculinity bullshit that gets put on men,
Speaker 1: so they're they're admitting even if this isn't the reason,
Speaker 1: but like, admitting that you were raped as a male
Speaker 1: is is kind of putting a dagger in your masculinity.
Speaker 1: So why would I talk about things that aren't discussed?
Speaker 1: That's something that wow, am I gay? Now? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: can't believe how many men we've heard from that have
Speaker 1: been raped. Well and fuck this happens. Wait more so,
Speaker 1: like if you go to like t G I Fries
Speaker 1: and you at your waiter, you can ask for a
Speaker 1: different waiter. If you go and report your case to
Speaker 1: a police officer, can you ask for another police And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of vocations that you can ask for
Speaker 1: someone Like can you say I want to speak to
Speaker 1: somebody else? I mean you can, right, I don't know
Speaker 1: if like Lee, because you know, there's different professions where
Speaker 1: you can say I want somebody else, and a lot
Speaker 1: of times if you're if you're somewhere good, they will
Speaker 1: they will put you with someone that you're comfortable with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I think there's a lot of fear between just
Speaker 1: like common person and law enforcement. But it's like they're
Speaker 1: they're supposed, you know, supposed to be working for the
Speaker 1: good of the community. So like, if you're not comfortable,
Speaker 1: we don't think this person. If something in your brain
Speaker 1: is saying this is this doesn't seem like a good
Speaker 1: police officer, Like you can go to another precinct if
Speaker 1: you're in a bigger place that has like like I
Speaker 1: could walk ten blocks here and go to a different precinct.
Speaker 1: But I mean everyone doesn't have that that act embracing.
Speaker 1: But you know, you know there's somebody else or you know,
Speaker 1: I would imagine like you can ask for like a
Speaker 1: female if you feel more comfortable, like yeah, a hospital,
Speaker 1: you can certainly do that, right No, I and I
Speaker 1: and I think that you should if you don't feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is your story, this is your this
Speaker 1: is your time to get you know, to get justice.
Speaker 1: This is your time. This is like, this is you
Speaker 1: taking control of things. There's what what do you have
Speaker 1: to lose by asking Yeah, Um, I wanted to wrap
Speaker 1: with and then obviously and then tell whatever if you
Speaker 1: there's anything else you want to say, talk about you
Speaker 1: fucking have the mic. One of the things when I
Speaker 1: first heard about you. This is so fascinating to me.
Speaker 1: And it is a reminder that you don't know what
Speaker 1: anybody is going You have no fucking idea what people
Speaker 1: go through. Um, I know you because one of my
Speaker 1: close friends works with you. But when you guys work together,
Speaker 1: and then she moved to a different job and she
Speaker 1: moved back to this job. She was like, Ashley is
Speaker 1: such a bit. She's such a bit, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And I was like, Ashley is such a bit? Why
Speaker 1: she a bit to you? And like it didn't go
Speaker 1: any further than that, like that moment that we were
Speaker 1: talking about it, and I was kind and then got
Speaker 1: her actually wood dollar so and I ripped stuffing coming
Speaker 1: out of it. I've had a headache for weeks now
Speaker 1: I know why. Um, And but that was all I
Speaker 1: knew of you. So so I met this friend a
Speaker 1: couple of days ago for a drink and she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I was with Actually, I'm like the bitch kind of
Speaker 1: you know, just because is that the girl I remember streets?
Speaker 1: And then she told me about this amazing conversation you
Speaker 1: guys had where you just was like, hey, this is
Speaker 1: my this is my past, and this is and then
Speaker 1: and then you like gave her critiques on how she
Speaker 1: comes across and you were You're absolutely right. I love her.
Speaker 1: She's but that's great, but it's it's amazing. I love
Speaker 1: getting critiques about how I act professionally or I mean,
Speaker 1: it just helps, it makes more self aware. But I
Speaker 1: can't like she told me all this and I was like,
Speaker 1: fuck that, you don't know, you don't know. It's true.
Speaker 1: We we um we had both been going through some
Speaker 1: difficult times the first time that we were working together.
Speaker 1: UM and the way that she reacted the way I
Speaker 1: reacted were too very polar opposite reactions. She became very
Speaker 1: much a stressful, a little bit more kind of like
Speaker 1: you know, talked about you know, it was a little
Speaker 1: bit more like out there with it and I and
Speaker 1: and to me, I just wanted to let that like
Speaker 1: I wanted to bury things, right, Yeah, I wanted to
Speaker 1: bury things. I wanted to do one more thing, you
Speaker 1: want to deal with a girl at work? And I
Speaker 1: and and we we just did not We just didn't
Speaker 1: know we did. It was and I told her when
Speaker 1: we were sitting there talking, I was like, you know, honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't think we even had a chance. Like I
Speaker 1: don't think we either of us really had a chance
Speaker 1: to ever really become friends that first time around, because
Speaker 1: we were so um, we were both going through difficult things,
Speaker 1: and we were both such in positions and the other
Speaker 1: person was just so polar opposite from what we were.
Speaker 1: But there's just never a chance for us, right. And
Speaker 1: the person that you saw, like, I know her to
Speaker 1: be like the most kind hearted, intelligent, Like she's a
Speaker 1: fucking superhero my eyes, this woman is and and fantastic attorney.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, she's never lost the case. She's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, she's just one of the most amazing humans
Speaker 1: I've ever met. But then you didn't know anything about her,
Speaker 1: and you thought something, And then I thought like Ash
Speaker 1: was a bitch because at one time she was a
Speaker 1: bit to my friend. But like, fuck me, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like that doesn't mean anything. But well,
Speaker 1: to be fair, I think that I don't think I
Speaker 1: was the best person to her, and I probably think
Speaker 1: that she wasn't always the best person in that too,
Speaker 1: But um, and I don't think that either of us
Speaker 1: ever helped each other with the way that we reacted
Speaker 1: to things. I think, you know, one thing kind of
Speaker 1: pisces you off, and then you hold that and then
Speaker 1: everything you see is like, oh, this person was like
Speaker 1: this before. They're so terrible and it's and it kind
Speaker 1: of you know, and especially when you're going through something
Speaker 1: like you're not thinking rationally, um, and you it just
Speaker 1: kind of blows into this big, huge, you know, I
Speaker 1: hate I hate her. You don't even know why it happened, honestly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there happened to me with other women that I'm like,
Speaker 1: you were we were talking about it, and you know,
Speaker 1: she and I said, you know, I think I thought
Speaker 1: I felt like you were rude to people, and she
Speaker 1: was like, but it was so disproportionate, and was like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know. Right. It's such a beautiful reminder though,
Speaker 1: that you don't know what people are, what people, what
Speaker 1: people's lives are, what. And I try to remind myself
Speaker 1: of this all the time in day to day interactions,
Speaker 1: all the time, as much as I can of Like,
Speaker 1: if someone like fucking was an asshole to me on
Speaker 1: the street, his mom could have just died or you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like, and it's not making excuses,
Speaker 1: it's just like you don't know what that person and
Speaker 1: then it could be a huge piece of ship. And
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think that my behavior was warranted, but
Speaker 1: I get it. Oh there there we go. Um, I
Speaker 1: don't think that. Um, but I also think that, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe if she had taken the time to sit down
Speaker 1: and ask me about my story, if I had taken
Speaker 1: the time to sit down and ask her about her story,
Speaker 1: that maybe it would have changed things a little bit.
Speaker 1: Maybe not. Maybe we're set both in such terrible places
Speaker 1: in our life that we were just not even like
Speaker 1: that wouldn't even changed anything. But but the but the
Speaker 1: good thing is is that, um, we're But I mean,
Speaker 1: I I can see she is happier now, Like she
Speaker 1: looks she's a lot happier. She's, um, you know, just
Speaker 1: in a better place. And so am I. Um, and
Speaker 1: so both of us, I think you know, it took
Speaker 1: us both getting to like a better place and then
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, just wanting to bury the hatchet
Speaker 1: and you know, being like this was stupid, like what
Speaker 1: are we doing um to to sit down? And then
Speaker 1: we were and then we were able to kind of
Speaker 1: have a very honest conversation. I would give her credit,
Speaker 1: you know, that we were able. She kind of brought
Speaker 1: it up. She just I was like, all right, we're
Speaker 1: doing this right now. I got two glasses of wine
Speaker 1: and I am ready. But it was good because you know,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know that I don't even know
Speaker 1: that if at the time, when we were kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, bitchy to each other, if I would have
Speaker 1: been open to hearing the critiques that she had to
Speaker 1: say about me, and I don't know that she would
Speaker 1: have been open to the critiques that I had to
Speaker 1: say about her. But we were both in a place
Speaker 1: that now we are able to and it's really nice.
Speaker 1: It's nice, beautiful. And then I was like, she said,
Speaker 1: I think she would do the pod cast. Here's her number. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and now you're here, I am here, and you probably
Speaker 1: helped the few days later. And so it's amazing how
Speaker 1: things turn out in life. I know, you know, really
Speaker 1: I think that to myself the time I do too,
Speaker 1: Like I I start to think like, well, if this
Speaker 1: time happened to me or if this, you know, then
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't be doing this
Speaker 1: and and it's you know, you start to have like
Speaker 1: purpose and things. Yeah, what kind of answer the question?
Speaker 1: I was just say, what's so? I was like, what
Speaker 1: is there? What if any is the bright side to
Speaker 1: all of this? Like that? How are you now? Have
Speaker 1: you been in a healthy relationship? I mean I'm still
Speaker 1: dating if any single guys out there? Okay, dude, and
Speaker 1: you're you're beautiful, smart in your career one of those
Speaker 1: so spoken guests. Yes, absolutely, and a lot of these
Speaker 1: people are like comedians and they talk for a living.
Speaker 1: You are, but just like the logic in you and
Speaker 1: the and the tenacity and the you're heroic. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're a strong fucking woman. I think the best thing
Speaker 1: that could have happened to me is I I have
Speaker 1: been blessed with meeting amazing people like this, friends that
Speaker 1: we have in commons, I have who are now in
Speaker 1: my life, very supportive, very understanding, very you know, they
Speaker 1: they are very um they understand what I what happened,
Speaker 1: and they don't blame me, and and and the thing
Speaker 1: is for me is having that now is just it
Speaker 1: is so nice. I have these great girl friends in
Speaker 1: my life that I have I didn't really have beforehand.
Speaker 1: Um that I've shared these experiences with who who very
Speaker 1: who are very you know, they're empowering to me. But
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing to me, and it's why
Speaker 1: I kind of do what I do, is I feel
Speaker 1: like I have any unique ability to understand what the
Speaker 1: victim feels like. UM, So when someone comes to testify,
Speaker 1: I can relate to them. When someone comes in and
Speaker 1: they're worried, they're scared, they you know, there's there's a
Speaker 1: piece to me that can relate to them. And I
Speaker 1: think that that's my biggest set to what I do.
Speaker 1: UM and it kind of gives me a little bit
Speaker 1: of a level of empathy that I think. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that lawyers, you know, other lawyers out
Speaker 1: there don't don't have that. But I think when you
Speaker 1: really truly understand what someone's going through, and when you
Speaker 1: really truly understand kind of the emotions and the conflict
Speaker 1: that they're going through, internally, um, you have a better
Speaker 1: understanding of how to kind of help them. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: mean that would be served as fuel to bring them
Speaker 1: to justice, bring people did this to them to justice.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the biggest thing for me is
Speaker 1: Number one, I know that I can make it through anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that. That's the one thing that I think
Speaker 1: is huge is you know, I might fall and you know,
Speaker 1: follow my face and you know, screw up, but I
Speaker 1: will make it, you know I will. I will make
Speaker 1: it through because I know that I'm strong enough to
Speaker 1: do that. That's huge. Has been huge for me. UM.
Speaker 1: And I think just feeling like I have some sort
Speaker 1: of um understanding of what these people are going through
Speaker 1: UM has also made what I do I think important
Speaker 1: to me UM And yeah, it's given me purpose. Well,
Speaker 1: nothing we can add to that. Thank you very much,
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. I would say where we can
Speaker 1: find you, but we can't. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: This has been guys. We fucked the anti slut shimming podcast.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you next week. Oh oh oh oh.
Speaker 1: Open on my eyes to see the chaos that's in
Speaker 1: front of me. The constant change and all the season
Speaker 1: suddenly occurred to me that moving and count the ah
Speaker 1: and move inn and card stayed said, the blood that
Speaker 1: posters through my veins producing and the kind of painted
Speaker 1: as my veins begin to squeeze, I feel you coming
Speaker 1: all over me and I and moving in and card stands,
Speaker 1: and I har and move in any card stands because
Speaker 1: I've got so much to figure, I said. The more
Speaker 1: I learned, the more I doubt I. And he said,
Speaker 1: to satisfy my soul and mind. If I'm gonna realize
Speaker 1: and maybe it's not I I have after I