Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Here we go.
Speaker 2: Suprema Suprema role called the Supreme Suprema role, called Suprema
Speaker 2: Supremo role, called Suprema s Supremo role.
Speaker 3: He is the best. Yeah, nothing to prove. Yeah, we
Speaker 3: get the honor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Suprema Suprema.
Speaker 3: My name is Fante. Yeah, back on the block with
Speaker 3: my man Rigs yaphi coto.
Speaker 1: Suprema ro Suprema. My name is Sugar. Yeah, I shall proceed.
Speaker 3: Yeah to eat your shrewd and smoke your weeds. So
Speaker 3: prim so primo primo.
Speaker 5: So I'm unpaid, Bill, I'm not better than you. Yeah,
Speaker 5: but thanks to Fante, Yeah, I'm a better rapper than you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and my favorite yeah who else?
Speaker 3: Yeah it's yeah, I give all y'all that, but y'all
Speaker 3: gonna have to chill. Yeah, I know I'm gonna have to.
Speaker 4: Rap sound Supremo, roll up premoch sup.
Speaker 3: Who wait?
Speaker 1: You know like dot X will stop a bar like
Speaker 1: like he will stop a bar fourteen.
Speaker 3: Before he finishes.
Speaker 7: I did.
Speaker 1: I did because like too many times and there's a
Speaker 1: really long pause. Yeah, I can get used to this.
Speaker 1: This is another in person Yeah, classic dust Dusting.
Speaker 6: One of the most anticipated episodes of all Quest Loove
Speaker 6: Supreme Time.
Speaker 1: Exactly the amount of times that Like has been in
Speaker 1: the group chat. When is this going to happen? When
Speaker 1: is this going to happen? I don't know for me.
Speaker 1: If you're old enough to know the reference, this will
Speaker 1: feel like the anytime that Eddie Murphy comes on the
Speaker 1: r Show where it's like, how do you add professional
Speaker 1: with someone that you've known for four decades of all
Speaker 1: your life? Like, you know, this is another episode of
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme Ladies and Gentlemen, Quest Love and Wait,
Speaker 1: where the hell are we? Like go back in time?
Speaker 3: It's like an old.
Speaker 1: Time streshold recording studio. Yes, I feel like I'm in
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six and also nineteen ninety six. Yo, it's
Speaker 1: also too.
Speaker 3: Today is the I guess the thirteenth or twelfth anniversary
Speaker 3: of an undone drop today? December sixth.
Speaker 1: Wow, let's say that's awesome. Twelfth, twelve year twelve, right,
Speaker 1: I think it's twelve.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm getting numb to roots album anniversaries. I know, right,
Speaker 3: I got so many of them.
Speaker 7: I know, man, what a beautiful privilege. That's beautiful?
Speaker 1: All right? So yeah, sugar, Steve, how's life good? That's
Speaker 1: night Bill? You made it? What's up?
Speaker 3: Mn?
Speaker 1: Happy to be here.
Speaker 3: You gave me like a half a second and say
Speaker 3: how was like?
Speaker 1: I was like, house, like great, great, I'm paying Bill.
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 3: Great?
Speaker 5: Everything's good. I'm happy to be here. I thought I
Speaker 5: wasn't gonna be here at the weather sort of me here.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's awesome. Uh F tikeolo. This is the first
Speaker 1: time we're talking to you after seeing the documentary. Man,
Speaker 1: was a response.
Speaker 3: It's been amazing, man, kind of overwhelming. But uh no, man,
Speaker 3: it's yeah. It's being received exactly how we want to
Speaker 3: be received. We made it with a lot of love,
Speaker 3: and we get a lot of love back. So check
Speaker 3: it out a little bit. Go check it out, all right,
Speaker 3: And what's the next move after the documentary? I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just we literally, so we finished this.
Speaker 3: We finished the doc November seventh, We had our first
Speaker 3: screen in November nine, and then we released it November
Speaker 3: twenty fourth. So I ain't trying to do shit a
Speaker 3: little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm just yeah, we don't know about that life not
Speaker 1: doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not doing shit. Hey, I hear man right
Speaker 3: back to rap, back to the lag.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I will say that, you know, it's
Speaker 1: real good to see because it was also just like
Speaker 1: unprecedented territory because not since maybe Metallica's Some kind of
Speaker 1: Monster have us seen a documentary of a group really
Speaker 1: do self analytical work, because normally it's just like cutting
Speaker 1: place and then nineteenth thirty and we did this and no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, and then you know that sort of undone
Speaker 1: unsung methods, and so yeah, it was good to watch.
Speaker 1: And actually our guest today and myself were at the
Speaker 1: very beginning of our process.
Speaker 3: So we're finna bite jack that whole concept. I really
Speaker 3: really break off ship, Like, yo, man, how come we
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like you down to the
Speaker 3: to the very last compound and ship.
Speaker 6: That's what you do with the youth though, y'all you've
Speaker 6: put themselves out there and then we you know, how's
Speaker 6: it going.
Speaker 7: I'm good. I am so happy that we finally got.
Speaker 1: This done, ladies and gentlemen. We have literally one of
Speaker 1: the best wordsmiths that ever entered the realm of hip hop,
Speaker 1: which sort of sounds like an empty intro, but it's
Speaker 1: it's actually literally true. What actually makes this even more
Speaker 1: special appropose that we're here kind of to celebrate a
Speaker 1: new chapter in your life, which is kind of you
Speaker 1: opening up to the world because you've been very mysterious
Speaker 1: to the entire world. And yes, it's awkward as fuck
Speaker 1: giving introduction. No, but I absolutely make no buns. Buns,
Speaker 1: you don't make buns. No, I don't about no, I
Speaker 1: absolutely make no bones about our guest today being not
Speaker 1: only just one of the greatest people of all time,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's like, I don't know how to
Speaker 1: refer to Tuik because he's literally probably been the most
Speaker 1: consistent figure in my life period. Like I've seen him
Speaker 1: on a regular basis for the last thirty seven years
Speaker 1: of my life. Like I haven't done that with my mother,
Speaker 1: my father and my sister, any girlfriend. Like it's kind
Speaker 1: of my work spouse, which I don't even have shame
Speaker 1: in that. Man. This is this is, this is a commitment.
Speaker 1: The greatest of all time. Tariq Black Thought Trotter is
Speaker 1: on Costloft Supreme Yeah.
Speaker 3: Platform, thank you, thank you, sir. So God, oh God,
Speaker 3: see that Arsenio ednything started already before every for any
Speaker 3: l moment, there's always here in the background.
Speaker 1: God is great.
Speaker 3: God. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Initially my plan was like to lay back and let
Speaker 1: the four of you go at it, to ask whatever,
Speaker 1: but even I have questions. I'm mid read of.
Speaker 3: The book right now.
Speaker 1: But since you are bursting at the seams, start.
Speaker 7: Okay, Well, let's just start with this.
Speaker 6: The fact that this is one of the most anticipated projects,
Speaker 6: at least in our circle of people. We've been waiting
Speaker 6: to hear your story for probably the last couple decades.
Speaker 6: So I want to know why now and why the
Speaker 6: way that you decided to do and how you and
Speaker 6: not why the way you decided to do it, but
Speaker 6: how you decided.
Speaker 3: To do it.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: I think the the why now of it all is
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like now or never, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like there's a certain urgency that is
Speaker 3: very tangible that you know, is to I don't know,
Speaker 3: I feel like there is like it's time to do
Speaker 3: all all the things right we have to, you know,
Speaker 3: sort of do it or not, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So for me, it was it was now or never.
Speaker 3: It was you know, if not now, then when it
Speaker 3: was you know, why not now? And you know all
Speaker 3: different ways that I could you know, self sabotage in
Speaker 3: my mind and worst case scenario without I was able
Speaker 3: to resolve, you know. And and yeah, it just felt like, uh,
Speaker 3: you know the best move both h you know, for me,
Speaker 3: for my sanity, for my mental peace, and you know,
Speaker 3: just to give people who have been longtime supporters of
Speaker 3: the route something new to latch onto and you know,
Speaker 3: something to identify with and you know, something that they're
Speaker 3: able to you know, see representation of themselves in to
Speaker 3: some extent hopefully. Yeah, it just felt very necessary.
Speaker 7: So and real quick, what's this process?
Speaker 6: Because I told Fante this morning, we've been talking about
Speaker 6: your book a lot, and between May the Lord watch
Speaker 6: his documentary and the Upcycle self, they're very special because
Speaker 6: we are seeing not just our two of our favorite
Speaker 6: artists to our favorite MC's, but we are seeing two
Speaker 6: black men of certain ages reveal themselves in ways that
Speaker 6: we may not be used to seeing film wise and
Speaker 6: on paper. So when talking to Fontan and knowing that
Speaker 6: he started his process years ago because the onion has
Speaker 6: to be peeled, how does that work for you? As
Speaker 6: far as yet, I'm going to do this book, I'm
Speaker 6: going to bring this, but I know you had to
Speaker 6: go through the.
Speaker 7: Okay, do I want to talk about this or I
Speaker 7: do I want to talk about that? And I ain't
Speaker 7: gonna do that, but somebody had to go to you. No,
Speaker 7: you have to do that. You have to say these things.
Speaker 1: How do you do that? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well this isn't my first attempt at a memoir,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. So I feel like maybe
Speaker 3: I feel like this is a third time, So third
Speaker 3: times a charm, you know what I'm saying. I partnered
Speaker 3: it up with a couple of different people, you know,
Speaker 3: the collaborators in the past, and you know, great minds,
Speaker 3: and we've got you know, hours of hours of interview
Speaker 3: uh you know, audio and video stuff, and we took
Speaker 3: you know, lots of notes and so that did all
Speaker 3: of the all of the you know, like the groundwork.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I wasn't able to get through the process
Speaker 3: in either of those instances. And I think in this
Speaker 3: dynamic like between me and Jasmine Martin. Jasmine is from Philadelphia,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. As them, we've worked together
Speaker 3: on so many different things over the past five or
Speaker 3: six years or so. We had just did a comparable
Speaker 3: sort of project for Audible during Quarantine in seven years. So,
Speaker 3: like the bones were there. So it was just about,
Speaker 3: you know, how are we going to approach it? And
Speaker 3: we wrote this book the way that we would record
Speaker 3: an album or work on a screenplay or do anything
Speaker 3: for musical theater. It was sort of you know, from
Speaker 3: the inside out, you know what I'm saying on some
Speaker 3: Quentin Tarantino shit. I think that that's the beauty of
Speaker 3: you know, just being it being my first time, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean doing the thing. There's a there's
Speaker 3: a blitz they you know, they don't say ignorance is
Speaker 3: bliss for nothing, right, So there's something in the just
Speaker 3: the abandon of not knowing better, not knowing the right
Speaker 3: way to do a thing, so you just do it,
Speaker 3: you know, like the artistic or you know, most efficient
Speaker 3: or creative way. And that's what I'm experience right now.
Speaker 3: How many years was this book in the making. It
Speaker 3: took about a year and a half two years, okay, yea.
Speaker 3: And the first two attempts that you made at doing
Speaker 3: the kind of this biography, what made those I guess
Speaker 3: the wrong attempts? Like what what didn't work about those
Speaker 3: I think it was just the relate, like I was
Speaker 3: sort of relinquishing my my story, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And in both of those situations, it was almost as
Speaker 3: if I was along for the ride because these were
Speaker 3: too far more experienced authors and you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: people that I had, you know, I still have a
Speaker 3: great deal of respect for, but they just aren't famil
Speaker 3: like you know, no one could tell your story the
Speaker 3: way you can tell it, you know. But I wasn't,
Speaker 3: you know, ready, for whatever reason, to tell it myself.
Speaker 3: So I figured by you know, just association, I would receive,
Speaker 3: you know, the same sort of validation as if I,
Speaker 3: you know, if I just you know, jump jumped out
Speaker 3: there on my own. And that wasn't the case. And
Speaker 3: uh yeah, I just it wasn't ready, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. Things happened when they as they should, you know,
Speaker 3: and I don't think either of those, you know, like respectfully,
Speaker 3: it just wasn't you know, like the right situation or time,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. I get it. When in
Speaker 3: writing this book, did you have to have conversations? We
Speaker 3: had Will on the show and he was talking about how,
Speaker 3: you know, he had to have conversations with family and
Speaker 3: people like, yo, this is coming. Did you have to
Speaker 3: have those talks with your people on how did they go?
Speaker 1: I had.
Speaker 3: I had some of those talks with you know, people
Speaker 3: whose opinion you know what I mean, who it mattered
Speaker 3: to me how they feel, and yeah, you know, like
Speaker 3: there was lots that we had to omit, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like my uncle who is my father's brother,
Speaker 3: my oldest year surviving relative. He you know, he likes
Speaker 3: to talk and he has no filter, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. Once you get in your eighties, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: so yeah, there's very much that had to be omitted,
Speaker 3: and you know, some names had to be changed with
Speaker 3: then there was a bunch of names that were left
Speaker 3: in there. And those are the people, you know, I
Speaker 3: had to holler at like my auntie now you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, Like you know, like you go be good,
Speaker 3: you and you and then you know, some homies, like
Speaker 3: there were a couple of people who I grew up
Speaker 3: with who just some minor inconsistencies, Like there was one
Speaker 3: thing that I saw, like in the book, it says
Speaker 3: that these two kids that my boys started this organization
Speaker 3: of writers called T E T. And they didn't start
Speaker 3: T E T. They weren't even they weren't ain't even right.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. Now, When I was doing
Speaker 3: the audio book, I caught it because I did my
Speaker 3: own audio book, so I caught it and I corrected it.
Speaker 3: But you know, I wasn't gonna have to. You got
Speaker 3: to come out the pocket if it's like, oh, yes,
Speaker 3: one more thing I want to change. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: they just has to stay in there. But I hit
Speaker 3: them up, like yo, you know you read the book,
Speaker 3: it's going to say X, Y and Z. I mean
Speaker 3: not really, you know, to make sure it was good
Speaker 3: with the dudes who were credited at starting the group,
Speaker 3: but to make sure it was good with the dudes
Speaker 3: who were in it, and you know, they had nothing
Speaker 3: to do with T E T. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: But every everybody's all good. And folks that I grew
Speaker 3: up with, like people from my block, like like who
Speaker 3: you know were in the in those scenarios, in those
Speaker 3: moments in time that that that I reconjured in the book,
Speaker 3: have read it and told me that it was a
Speaker 3: great read and that it was you know, the transportive
Speaker 3: and in the way that we intended it to be.
Speaker 3: In the book, you talk about specifically a fight you
Speaker 3: and the Meer had in London and how that changed
Speaker 3: the course of you guys relationship in some way. How
Speaker 3: do you think it changed y'all? How did that change
Speaker 3: 'all dynamic? Well, you know, I think, uh, if if
Speaker 3: you if you have a close friend, you and a
Speaker 3: close friend get in, you're like come to you know,
Speaker 3: a fisticuffs like you're come to blows, something that's forever changed. Right.
Speaker 3: If it's between two people who are used to fighting
Speaker 3: all the time, then you know it's sometimes just far
Speaker 3: little like with it that change is you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's less significant then if that's somebody's only fight, Like
Speaker 3: I'm going through my mind, I can't remember how many
Speaker 3: fights I have been and I don't even stomped out.
Speaker 3: I mean I win, some lose, some bunch of fights
Speaker 3: and ship it. If that's like your only fight, if
Speaker 3: you had like one, two, three altercations, then yeah, I
Speaker 3: would think it would be just more impactful. So that's
Speaker 3: just how I understood it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I think for me, it was something that like later
Speaker 3: that day I moved on, like you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: definitely again, like there was something had been changed, but
Speaker 3: it was such a insignificant change for me. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I just feel like in our mirrors, you know, world,
Speaker 3: there was something that uh, you know, there was a
Speaker 3: line that had been crossed that you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: we could never sort of un cross, you know. And funeral.
Speaker 7: That was.
Speaker 1: Like that was a quick fist couple of more wrestling
Speaker 1: like wrestling.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 7: It was it was it was wrestling joint amy or
Speaker 7: did you get it.
Speaker 3: I just sat on top of him, was like, I
Speaker 3: never re this situation.
Speaker 1: But the thing is like when you're in my size,
Speaker 1: like people just rightfully think like I'm never fucking with him.
Speaker 1: So I never had a fight my life. That was
Speaker 1: the only fight I've ever had in my life.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It's kind of weird.
Speaker 6: Do y'all understand that for the majority of the public,
Speaker 6: they don't really get to see, like, you know, to
Speaker 6: you writing a whole chapter about a mirror and how
Speaker 6: you guys met at how y'all connected in real life?
Speaker 6: People watch y'all and they watch you on the stage.
Speaker 6: They watch him from drums, but they really don't see
Speaker 6: y'all ever connect. And I gotta say as a fan
Speaker 6: and I feel like family friends not so much. But
Speaker 6: I remember, I said to Fant this morning, I said,
Speaker 6: I remember the one time and the first time that
Speaker 6: I saw y'all like embrace, right.
Speaker 7: I remember how it felt to see it. I remember
Speaker 7: where I was.
Speaker 6: I was at the Black Lily, at the five Spot.
Speaker 6: I felt emotional because it was just something that I
Speaker 6: hadn't seen.
Speaker 1: Y'all.
Speaker 6: Y'all was having a private conversation at the bar, was
Speaker 6: having a private conversation at the bar. And it wasn't
Speaker 6: like a let me hug you, bro, but it was
Speaker 6: just like a show of affection that I had.
Speaker 7: Never seen between the two of you. And I'm just curious,
Speaker 7: are y'all coind?
Speaker 1: I thought I was just like, oh, I'll see you tomorrow,
Speaker 1: But y'all don't do I see.
Speaker 6: You tomorrow, hug bro, I'll see you tomorrow. Like that's
Speaker 6: not something that people are used to seeing.
Speaker 1: It's weird, Okay. So I have despite whatever the perception,
Speaker 1: the whatever, my like, I don't know what people think
Speaker 1: they see me like, I've heard I'm super arrogant. I
Speaker 1: hear I'm happy, go lucky.
Speaker 7: Or are you a little disconnected? Sometimes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very loof I hear that at But the
Speaker 1: one thing I had to work on the pandemic was
Speaker 1: really letting go of old ideas and perceptions. And the
Speaker 1: one thing that I was always taught that my dad
Speaker 1: always taught me. And that's basically because he went through
Speaker 1: a situation with the business that he started with his brothers,
Speaker 1: and one of his big rules was always like, you know,
Speaker 1: never start business with family. You can never ever mix
Speaker 1: business in your friendship. Da da da da. And I've
Speaker 1: seen the told that that business took on my dad,
Speaker 1: like we we lost, he lost so much money. We Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I met it on the show, like we
Speaker 1: lived three years without gas in the house and it
Speaker 1: was like either a private school.
Speaker 3: For a mere or a gas This is before Kappa.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's is some crazy shit with me.
Speaker 1: So that said I always like, once I realized, oh,
Speaker 1: we're running a business, then I wondered, like, well, I
Speaker 1: wonder how like well shit change? Like will we still
Speaker 1: spend the night at each other's house? Like can we
Speaker 1: be friends? Or am run a business? So I was
Speaker 1: and even when I joke about the Grifven Door Slytherin thing.
Speaker 1: In my mind, it was all always like, now that
Speaker 1: we have a business, I should keep a professional distance
Speaker 1: so that the business can last long. But I also
Speaker 1: knew that I was sacrificing because I do miss those
Speaker 1: times where like we just hang out and you know,
Speaker 1: watch movies and all that stuff. But in my mind,
Speaker 1: I think I was carrying a lot of my father's
Speaker 1: beliefs I started carrying on my own. And the one
Speaker 1: thing I thought about was like, oh, man, I mean
Speaker 1: when Uncle Rosie and Dad and so now that I'm
Speaker 1: starting business with so it's like a brother than me.
Speaker 3: I could never do that. I mean, there's something to that, right,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, like that isn't like lots
Speaker 3: of OG's have that philosophy, and it's not for you know,
Speaker 3: not for nothing. And you know, like just to speak
Speaker 3: to that same sort of you know thing, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, Sean and I You've showing who manages the roots.
Speaker 3: That is my cut. That's who I'm talking. That's who
Speaker 3: that nigga just left when I burned down the house.
Speaker 3: He yeah, the fuck it. His spot on the on
Speaker 3: the floor was still warm, but you know, we grew
Speaker 3: up only you know, two years apart from one another,
Speaker 3: and just really close as cousins in the same way
Speaker 3: that our mothers were. They were like sisters, but they
Speaker 3: were aunt and niece, and he and I were, you know,
Speaker 3: great cousins, but you know we were more like brothers.
Speaker 7: Hotfully about that too.
Speaker 3: I mean we went to you know, college together, that
Speaker 3: whole thing. But once he became you know, the roots
Speaker 3: business manager, and once he partnered up with Rich, there
Speaker 3: was something that I mean, it changed, like there's something
Speaker 3: that changed, and I always wondered, you know, it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, we used to kick it all the time.
Speaker 3: We go get drinks, we go we at parties, we
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I talked to you in
Speaker 3: the morning, we're on the phone, and there's something that
Speaker 3: there is a you know, uh, consciousness of maintaining the
Speaker 3: business bar that I think. I mean, there's a there's
Speaker 3: something admirable and being able to separate the professionalism, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean in that way. You know what
Speaker 3: I mean, It's like he and I have brothers showing
Speaker 3: and our cousins. I don't think that's ever gonna change.
Speaker 3: But for the brand's sake, for the sake of the business. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, Sometimes you gotta do what
Speaker 3: you gotta do. So I mean, I completely understand, you know,
Speaker 3: I know, like there are lots of other examples that
Speaker 3: have been set, you know what I mean, other cats,
Speaker 3: other you know, artists that have been collaborative in a
Speaker 3: comparable way, but none of them have stood the test
Speaker 3: of time that we have. So it must be something
Speaker 3: to that shit, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It is weird though, once uh once during the bionic
Speaker 1: period of Bionics. Sorry, this is what two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: I think two thousand and two, two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: I caught Dayla in a twenty minute, candid moment. I
Speaker 1: forget where we were, either like a photo shoot or
Speaker 1: something like that, and I was far away, but I
Speaker 1: was keeping my eye on them, and I was like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, they actually like each other. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: it's also a thing where you got to understand that to.
Speaker 3: Endure.
Speaker 1: And we can't stress enough the amount of stress and
Speaker 1: turmoil those first like four years were where daily every
Speaker 1: day like my one dream of why this has to
Speaker 1: work is I can never I will never ever go
Speaker 1: back to fifty two twelve O Sage Avenue. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you remember Jungle Fever, when that moment where
Speaker 1: Annabella Schior had to, like in a moment of defeat,
Speaker 1: have to come back home to her dad. And my
Speaker 1: worst nightmare was this one because even before things fall apart,
Speaker 1: like every day I had to deal with hearing my
Speaker 1: dad sort of say like you got to get a
Speaker 1: real job, and or you're doing a video, but was
Speaker 1: a cable bill and what about the electric bill? And
Speaker 1: d da da da da da. So my mind like
Speaker 1: it's like I can never But the thing is is
Speaker 1: that we have to be in tight the way that
Speaker 1: you describe being on that tour, in like tight circles,
Speaker 1: Like I've never spent that much amount of time with
Speaker 1: any human that long. So it's like you gotta maintain
Speaker 1: a professional relationship and your brothers and you know, and
Speaker 1: again I'm just I'm going you you're gonna live out
Speaker 1: the examples of what.
Speaker 3: Was getting what you know, like there were some people
Speaker 3: who were in the roots who did that to the extreme.
Speaker 3: Like it's a delicate balance, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: You have cats who I mean, on more than one occasion,
Speaker 3: more than one member of the roots who we we
Speaker 3: travel they act like they ain't even they don't know.
Speaker 3: It's like yeah, like like dude, like we ain't fucking
Speaker 3: you gotta be Calicutta right now, like we all we
Speaker 3: got you, like you know what I'm saying, Like we
Speaker 3: didn't come together, but you know, and I think it
Speaker 3: was you know in that.
Speaker 1: I think people did that for some of the same reasons.
Speaker 1: But it's just extreme, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's weird you mentioned the hook thing because there's one
Speaker 3: moment I remember, which was at Dyla's funeral, and.
Speaker 1: I believe either John or my Duke's saw said like
Speaker 1: shot me, not shot me. Look, because everyone was sitting
Speaker 1: in the front row and of course, you know, me
Speaker 1: carries a flag for Diyler like I should be, but
Speaker 1: I wanted to sit in the back. And it seemed
Speaker 1: kind of odd because it was a large church, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't that many people. It was like maybe forty
Speaker 1: fifty people in a place that could hold like three hundred.
Speaker 1: Like dyl is buried in the same cemetery that Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson and Elizabeth Taylor are, so it's like a large,
Speaker 1: sprawling estate, but there's only like fifty people.
Speaker 3: There, and I purposely sat like in the last row,
Speaker 3: like with seventeen rows like ahead of me, of emptiness.
Speaker 1: And at the time my girlfriend was like, well, why
Speaker 1: are we sitting back here? And I was just like,
Speaker 1: it's so foolish now. But my whole thing was like,
Speaker 1: oh man, I can't let Tarik see me in a vulnerable,
Speaker 1: weak moment, which is again I was whatever it is
Speaker 1: you can never hold pre twenty twenty meters.
Speaker 6: Now look at it, like, now that we've read the
Speaker 6: book and we have had these conversations in the last
Speaker 6: seven years, is about you know, I had moments reading
Speaker 6: that book, even when Trek was describing your home situation
Speaker 6: like with the past inside.
Speaker 3: Now you know what I remember when broke into my crib.
Speaker 3: What I remember by Dyla's funeral was yeah, definitely, you know,
Speaker 3: like just how you know, gargantuan, the sort of the
Speaker 3: space was. We were only in the first few rows
Speaker 3: and stuff. But yeah, I remember being like, Yo, where
Speaker 3: where the fuck is I'm here at you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. And then I just remember like when it
Speaker 3: was over. I think at one point like I connected
Speaker 3: Dave New York. When it was over, I hugged. I
Speaker 3: fucking cried, Like that was the first time I was
Speaker 3: able to, Like I hadn't cried the whole time of
Speaker 3: hearing you know what I mean, throughout the whole shit.
Speaker 3: I saw a mirror after the funeral and I just started.
Speaker 1: Balling start right, and it was such So it felt
Speaker 1: weird to me because, like I mean, teen, such a
Speaker 1: professional distance thing. But this is like, ah, shit, now
Speaker 1: I gotta switch the light on and go back to
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one when we were born, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? After that?
Speaker 6: Do you go back after the hug and he embrace?
Speaker 6: Does it slowly open up things?
Speaker 1: Or do you go back to So here's the funny thing,
Speaker 1: all right, So I'm in, you know, and I've shared
Speaker 1: my psychological journey and all that stuff. So I did
Speaker 1: a session once and I kind of slipped and she said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, what was Tarik's opinion on that?
Speaker 3: And I was like, well, it's cool, you know whatever.
Speaker 3: He said, no, no, what do you say for Batim?
Speaker 3: I said, well, he ain't say it, but it'll be cool.
Speaker 3: She's like, wait, how how long do you talk to Tuik?
Speaker 3: And she's the kind of person so she's the kind
Speaker 3: of person that if she sees a scab, she'll just
Speaker 3: start scratching, scratching, and it's like, yo, I got other issues.
Speaker 1: I got you know, mother issues.
Speaker 3: Let's talk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right. She kept wanting to go there, and I'm
Speaker 1: trying to like matrix bullet dodge, and she clearly saw
Speaker 1: my discomfort and she was just asking basic questions like well,
Speaker 1: how long do you talk? Does do we know that
Speaker 1: like you're in therapy and da da da da, and
Speaker 1: that you're turning new leaf?
Speaker 3: And I was like, cool on man, where I'll touch
Speaker 3: you feel you know the thing like where you like
Speaker 3: you don't say like, oh I love you man? And
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: And I had a hard time just come to grips
Speaker 1: with myself, like looking in the mirror and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And so what she the way that she sort of
Speaker 1: gets me. The part that I never reveal is her
Speaker 1: methods a little bit different. Let's just say there's a
Speaker 1: certain amount of cash, money and escrow in which I
Speaker 1: have to in this December, so I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: start write a contract of what my goals are for
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. And if I don't stick to that,
Speaker 1: then she will present my worst nightmare, which is, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take this money and donate it all to
Speaker 1: the EP. No, no, no, no, okay, okay, I'll stop
Speaker 1: eating sugar. I'll stop eating sugar.
Speaker 3: And it's almost like she has to she has to
Speaker 3: mind trick and force me to do cause I'll just
Speaker 3: say like, yeah, i'll talk to him next week, next week,
Speaker 3: next month, next week.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. So it's it's it's almost akin
Speaker 1: to that of like you know when you get a
Speaker 1: girl's number in high school and you're in the mirror,
Speaker 1: like I'm in the mirror my dressing room, like all right,
Speaker 1: so you know, I'm in therapy and like I'm rehearsing
Speaker 1: my lines like a week ahead of time and shit,
Speaker 1: and she's like calling me, all right, so what did
Speaker 1: UIK say about your thing? And I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: all right, all right, I'm gonna do it. I'm gona
Speaker 1: do it. She's like, I'm gonna take this money. And
Speaker 1: your relationship is a hostage negotiation.
Speaker 3: Hearing right, like I'm the person that has to be
Speaker 3: threatened to do the right thing, like I'll expose you
Speaker 3: if you don't, you know, take care of yourself.
Speaker 1: So I was like all right, I said, so uh
Speaker 1: and there's like doing the pandemic.
Speaker 3: So I was like all right, reek, yeah, so you know,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of doing self work and stuff and you know, microducing.
Speaker 1: Here we go, right, so I got my life together.
Speaker 1: I'm micro So I did like so I did like
Speaker 1: this whole ship and I mentioned one of the people
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, so you know, I'm reading
Speaker 1: this book by this guy named doctor Joe Despenza and
Speaker 1: he talks about how like communications.
Speaker 3: Like oh yeah, doctor Joe, Yeah, I'm done with that.
Speaker 3: And in my head, I'm like, holy shit, wait what
Speaker 3: does he know about that? I said, you know about
Speaker 3: that joke? It's like yeah, you know years ago when
Speaker 3: you know, when I first started therapy and the like
Speaker 3: holy shit, you're in therapy like I was.
Speaker 1: And when I got back, I was like, yo, I
Speaker 1: didn't know. I thought I was the only one like
Speaker 1: doing the self improvement thing, and treeks like beat me
Speaker 1: by like years really years?
Speaker 7: Really?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was like four years ago.
Speaker 1: I started in twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: He was like what was fifteen? Well, you know, I man,
Speaker 3: I've become close friends with a fellow named Kyle Vaines
Speaker 3: and Kyle. He worked with me and Mark Jenkins and
Speaker 3: Ray Angry. He was like a supplement dude. Well you
Speaker 3: know that worked at this you know, this gym that
Speaker 3: we were training that whenever Mark would come to work
Speaker 3: with D'Angelo, we would all, you know, I mean be
Speaker 3: working down in the financial district at this spot. So
Speaker 3: at one point Kyle dis closed to Ray and I
Speaker 3: about how his girlfriend at the time, his fiance was
Speaker 3: a huge Roots fan. You know, she was terminally ill
Speaker 3: and really the only thing that was getting her through
Speaker 3: was our song Tomorrow, the one with you know, Me
Speaker 3: and Ron Rahem and yeah, so you know, she she
Speaker 3: wound up, you know, transitioning. We all kept in touch,
Speaker 3: and as luck would have it, we were out in
Speaker 3: La I think, like her funeral, her memorial was like
Speaker 3: a few days before we would have been out there
Speaker 3: for Grammys or whatever. So me and Ray went out
Speaker 3: there early, performed at her memorial and became, you know,
Speaker 3: closer friends with Kyle. So Kyle and I, that's like
Speaker 3: he's my hiking buddy, you know what I'm saying. We
Speaker 3: meet up at different places around the country and you know,
Speaker 3: just go on walks and you know, he was always
Speaker 3: heavy into meditation, and when he started rocking with Joe Dispenser,
Speaker 3: he started sending me his meditations early on, and I
Speaker 3: couldn't get with it, you know what I'm saying, because
Speaker 3: the dudes he talks with, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: But he just kept bombarding with the ship until you know,
Speaker 3: like I got one meditation that was it was you know,
Speaker 3: short enough for me to get into. And it was
Speaker 3: also it wasn't so long that you know, it started
Speaker 3: to because I tried to do it with my family
Speaker 3: and everything, and they was like, yo, I can't do this,
Speaker 3: Like why is dude talking that way? But once you
Speaker 3: get over how he's saying the shit, you start to
Speaker 3: see results and you start to feel, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying different. So yeah, I've been rocking with it
Speaker 3: for a minute. But that's how I got turned on
Speaker 3: to it, you know what I mean. And I think
Speaker 3: Kyle was the first person that gave me that book,
Speaker 3: Becoming Supernatural that is meditation? Is that still a practice today?
Speaker 1: That it is?
Speaker 3: But you know what really you know tripped me out,
Speaker 3: was I forgot I didn't even realize when I discovered
Speaker 3: Joe Dispenser's meditations that he was the same dude from
Speaker 3: that documentary. What the bleep do we know that he
Speaker 3: did the water experiment? You know what I'm saying, that
Speaker 3: doc that that Japanese dude does, who wrote you know,
Speaker 3: the hidden messages in water where you know, if I
Speaker 3: take a glass of water, if I take three glasses
Speaker 3: of water, say I take two glass of water from
Speaker 3: the same source, and I you know, you know, for
Speaker 3: a certain amount of time, a week or two weeks,
Speaker 3: just curse and talk down to this glass of water,
Speaker 3: and you know, I praised this container of water, and
Speaker 3: then we freeze them and then look at it under
Speaker 3: the microscope. You'll see that the water that I focused
Speaker 3: all the negative energy on is gonna, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, produce just all these ugly sort of like
Speaker 3: you're gonna be able to visibly see the ugliness that
Speaker 3: I projected. Yeah, it's like I projected toxicity onto you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, this water and the water that
Speaker 3: you you know, praise and that you hit, you know,
Speaker 3: and focus your positive energy on, like the images of
Speaker 3: like you know, beautiful you know, one of one, like snowflakes.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: When you look at it at the microscope because we're
Speaker 1: seventy made of water, right, human.
Speaker 3: So this dude who's meditations, he and I do. I
Speaker 3: was already a fan of his from the water shit. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean really years probably ten twelve years ago, and
Speaker 3: then I didn't realize, oh shit, this is that same dude. Then,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? I started listening to really
Speaker 3: his podcast interviews and stuff because he was he was
Speaker 3: he was like paralyzed from the neck down from an accident,
Speaker 3: and you know, just through my control, he was able
Speaker 3: to you know, focus on different parts of his body
Speaker 3: and bring it all back, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So he's a he's the real deal in that. You know,
Speaker 3: he's still he talks with it though, so.
Speaker 1: Yes, he talks weird. But that was the thing, like
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that Treek was actually more advancing this
Speaker 1: shit than I was. Like I think I'm like bringing
Speaker 1: something like shit where man, motherfucker's going to start clowning.
Speaker 3: Me and you're all right, he was waiting on you
Speaker 3: to get here, right exactly, That's what happened. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm in that yah man doing white people shit right exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because just doing the work and doing you know,
Speaker 1: as with most of us, discovered for a lot of us,
Speaker 1: doing the work is it's a vulnerable thing to put
Speaker 1: yourself through and oftentimes we're looking at ourselves through the
Speaker 1: eyes of what others will think about me and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. And it really wasn't until mid twenty twenty
Speaker 1: in which a lot of us were like, okay, mental
Speaker 1: health and you know, not just church or handle choice.
Speaker 7: And I got to just say, at least for your
Speaker 7: story read like you.
Speaker 6: You would hope just based on the surface of what
Speaker 6: we knew before you presented this book to us that
Speaker 6: you were in therapy because it always just felt like
Speaker 6: your life.
Speaker 7: It was heavy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I've definitely you know, I've done different
Speaker 3: sorts of therapy, and you know, I think this book
Speaker 3: just the process has been you know, it was like
Speaker 3: it was a therapeutic, cathartic sort of thing for me
Speaker 3: to work through. I knew I didn't want to write
Speaker 3: a tell all. You know what I'm saying like there
Speaker 3: is I'm still super private and there was much that
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, I just still hold close
Speaker 3: to the chest a lot of the ship. It's embarrassing,
Speaker 3: it's fucking it's you know what I mean, it's it's what.
Speaker 7: Was the hardest thing for you to in that realm?
Speaker 7: What was one of the hardest things it was for
Speaker 7: you to express.
Speaker 3: In that book? The hardest thing I talk about in
Speaker 3: the book is, you know, firing the pistol into a
Speaker 3: building that I knew my mother was inside of. You
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, That was you know, very it
Speaker 3: was hard, super hard. I mean, in that moment, you know,
Speaker 3: it felt it made perfect sense.
Speaker 6: It was so brave of you, and I appreciated you
Speaker 6: for introducing us to your mom. Yeah real she was, like,
Speaker 6: I mean, I've never even met a high ranking woman.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah she was. I was going to ask you
Speaker 3: another part in the book. You mentioned, you know, just
Speaker 3: relationships that your behavior, you know, you knew you kind
Speaker 3: of like kind of ruined in some ways. How did
Speaker 3: you go about fixing those relationships and what did that
Speaker 3: look like? You know some some of those relationships I
Speaker 3: haven't been able. You know, they've been irreparable, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. And sometimes it's a hard pillar swallow,
Speaker 3: but you know, you gotta swallow it. Right. One of
Speaker 3: the religion, you know, I really I mean we would
Speaker 3: all hope that you be able to make it all
Speaker 3: good with like your nuclear family at some point. Right.
Speaker 3: So I was, you know, I did have hopes that
Speaker 3: I don't know, even though I refer to him as
Speaker 3: my half brother in this book, you know, I mean
Speaker 3: it's I only have one brother. So I was, you know,
Speaker 3: it was my hopes that he was going to read
Speaker 3: the book and I don't know, like that would be
Speaker 3: a springboard for some self revelation, some discovery within hisself
Speaker 3: that would lead to I don't know, some sort of
Speaker 3: you know, peace. But yeah, just as luck would have it,
Speaker 3: like the crazy shit was. I found out that they
Speaker 3: found his body, like I'm saying, my brother was. Yeah
Speaker 3: he I don't think there was any foul play, but
Speaker 3: he passed away. And I found out when I was
Speaker 3: in Philly to do a book event, like the first
Speaker 3: book event with Mark Leamon. So this is recent. This
Speaker 3: is this is recent. Yeah, but you know they yeah yoa.
Speaker 3: So So during this whole for the past two weeks,
Speaker 3: while I've been on this run, like promoting this book,
Speaker 3: I've been having to you know, shoot back and forth
Speaker 3: to Philly and figure out the funeral arrangement. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know he did. He never wanted the funeral or
Speaker 3: anything like that, but you know, just to get his remains,
Speaker 3: you know, cremated and that whole process. It's been a lot.
Speaker 3: And I didn't take any time off from you know,
Speaker 3: tonight show or any of that either, because I just
Speaker 3: been you know, just trying to choose my battle. So
Speaker 3: I just made it happen.
Speaker 7: But communicating.
Speaker 3: The last time he and I communicated was.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 3: Maybe it was It's been about two years or so,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. He reached out, I know,
Speaker 3: like within the past like two months, he reached out,
Speaker 3: but he wasn't able to get in contact with Man.
Speaker 3: So one question I had, how do you I mean
Speaker 3: a mirrors talk about it as well, but like when
Speaker 3: you are the one in your family that makes it right,
Speaker 3: how do you go about setting up boundaries with your
Speaker 3: family in terms of Okay, this is what I can do,
Speaker 3: this is what I'm not going to do. How did
Speaker 3: y'all figure that out? I think over time, you know,
Speaker 3: those boundaries just sort of reveal themselves, right in situations
Speaker 3: where it's extended family, but with your parents, with your
Speaker 3: I mean I would imagine with your parents, you know,
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. But like with your siblings, with your
Speaker 3: you know, with anyone in your family who was close
Speaker 3: enough to feel that level of entitlement, it's crazy, like
Speaker 3: it could, you know, like it could. It's for for
Speaker 3: many of us, it's a deal brecker, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. I have my brother on the salary for
Speaker 3: a long time, you know, where he was, you know,
Speaker 3: he never had to do anything and you just get
Speaker 3: a check every week, you know, And it was like,
Speaker 3: I mean, but I tried all different sorts of configurations
Speaker 3: of you know, trying to set him up up for
Speaker 3: self care and to be able to, you know, best
Speaker 3: take care of my grandmother too at the time before
Speaker 3: she passed away. And you know, to Noveil. You know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, have your how.
Speaker 6: Have your your kids because you talked about briefly your
Speaker 6: older kids of course you're younger too, but how have
Speaker 6: they received the book or and are they aware of everything.
Speaker 3: That you have put in that My daughter Celia, she
Speaker 3: read a couple of drafts and she's read the book,
Speaker 3: so she she has some weird Yeah, Sealiah's seventeen.
Speaker 1: That my family will never read.
Speaker 3: He can't do she's read a couple of drafts and
Speaker 3: she's read the book, and you know, she loves it.
Speaker 3: She you know, she was brought the tears on a
Speaker 3: couple of different instances. But my other kids, I know,
Speaker 3: a mayor hasn't read it.
Speaker 7: I wanted to say that too, that was a mayor
Speaker 7: has not read it.
Speaker 3: And you know, I don't know what a mayor this year,
Speaker 3: Amir is a This is the way you.
Speaker 7: Just dropped that, Like everybody knows that Black Thought has
Speaker 7: a son named.
Speaker 3: Mirror talking about that, but no, Yeah, he's about to
Speaker 3: be twenty four, and he was just always so you know, idyllic,
Speaker 3: you know that. I feel like now I'm just it's
Speaker 3: so shocking, like he'd be forgetting young. I mean, he's
Speaker 3: forgot my birthday this year days late, which is it's
Speaker 3: not huge, but it's like, wow, like this, who is
Speaker 3: who is this? You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: He like, oh my bad, pops, I've just been mushrooms.
Speaker 3: Right. But I'm sure he hasn't read the book yet
Speaker 3: because he's just you know, he's uh, he'll have to
Speaker 3: probably be up here for the holidays and in my
Speaker 3: presence and then he'll you know, crack it.
Speaker 6: You've had conversations with like a mirror and stuff about
Speaker 6: this evolution in these stories of your family and.
Speaker 7: Like how you up cycle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, I try. I've always tried to,
Speaker 3: you know, just be be transparent with my kids about
Speaker 3: that from which we sort of you know, came. But yeah,
Speaker 3: it's hard to get them interested, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I drive around like, you know, this is why I
Speaker 3: went to school. I used to live like in this
Speaker 3: tiny structure, you know what I mean? This is how far.
Speaker 3: Let me show you how far I walked to first grade,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And I say, okay, we
Speaker 3: started here, and then I'm driving, drive and driving.
Speaker 1: They're like, we ain't get there yet, Like nah, and
Speaker 1: we drive.
Speaker 3: I'm not making this it up. Yes I was walking
Speaker 3: and maybe there was a path shovel through the snow,
Speaker 3: but maybe there wasn't, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 3: they just, you know, they lose interest. So I try
Speaker 3: not to impress it upon them. But I think it's
Speaker 3: because you know, they're just so they come up in
Speaker 3: a bubble. So there's that disconnect, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: And it's it's part of what we do. This is
Speaker 3: This is part of the you know proverbial having overcome,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So the way that privilege,
Speaker 3: the way that entitlement plays out, it plays out in
Speaker 3: different ways, and it depends on you know, I think
Speaker 3: it boils down to you know, I mean, we all
Speaker 3: spare the rods now, but you know, I think it
Speaker 3: boils down to how much time has passed, maybe how
Speaker 3: many generations have passed, you know, since the rod has
Speaker 3: been has been spared. You know what I'm saying. But yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, it's wild. I try not to force it
Speaker 3: on him. But just a couple of weeks ago, when
Speaker 3: we were leaving a book event in Philly, I went
Speaker 3: to Philly to do something. Uh oh no, what the
Speaker 3: one I was talking about with Mark? And it was
Speaker 3: in my old neighborhood. So we were on our way home,
Speaker 3: and just as we were on our way home, my son, Tarik,
Speaker 3: who's eight, was like, he said, Joel, and then when
Speaker 3: next time we come to Philly, could we see you
Speaker 3: know one of the places used to live, like maybe
Speaker 3: the house that you burned down? And we were like
Speaker 3: two blocks away from there. So I got to now,
Speaker 3: because he had expressed interest, I took him to the block.
Speaker 3: I showed him, you know, where I went to preschool,
Speaker 3: showed him the house that I you know, set on fire,
Speaker 3: and where I used to go to the corner store
Speaker 3: and that whole thing. And you know, not that he cared,
Speaker 3: but I showed him whe Chubby Checker used to live.
Speaker 3: And yeah, but you know, now it's you know, he
Speaker 3: has a you know there was because he expressed interests.
Speaker 3: I think that memory but it'll sit with him in
Speaker 3: a different way. But yeah, my other kids they don't really,
Speaker 3: they don't be caring.
Speaker 1: Okay, I kind of want to carjack this interview. I
Speaker 1: know we're talking about the book, but also a big
Speaker 1: part of Tariq's existence is that in roots world, everyone
Speaker 1: knows a mirror, but no one knows Tarik. Kind of
Speaker 1: the ways where we're opposite is last night, I went
Speaker 1: to bed at four twenty am. I'm certain you were
Speaker 1: probably up at three am. What is your morning routine?
Speaker 3: I usually go to bed around nine or nine thirty.
Speaker 3: Who does that? Well, when you're not in third grade?
Speaker 3: But I got a son who's in second grade, and
Speaker 3: he'd be well, yeah, so you know, so it's all
Speaker 3: of your kids first and foremost, I have to be
Speaker 3: awake for as many consistent hours as possible just to
Speaker 3: police his sugar intake. If Tariq wakes up at six
Speaker 3: am and we don't wake up till eight, there's been
Speaker 3: two hours where he could just roll through the crib snacks,
Speaker 3: stashing shit, eating you know, candy for breakfast, and then
Speaker 3: I wake up at hey, and then it's a real shit,
Speaker 3: that's super real. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you know, So
Speaker 3: there's that. There's also if there's anything you've talked about
Speaker 3: me wanting to watch the Guilt, If there's anything that
Speaker 3: I that I like to watch or that I want
Speaker 3: to read or work on or listen to, it has
Speaker 3: to happen before the house is up. So it works
Speaker 3: out that I'm in bed right after when Tarita goes
Speaker 3: to sleep at nine nine thirty, I go to bed,
Speaker 3: But then I wake up at like four thirty five,
Speaker 3: and then I'm good and everybody else is asleep, and
Speaker 3: I have an hour and a half to two hours,
Speaker 3: you know, to do whatever. Right what time do they
Speaker 3: wake up that they wake up at seven? They wake
Speaker 3: up at seven, And it's wild because that gives me anxiety.
Speaker 3: Celia has a seven twenty train to make it to
Speaker 3: school in New York City, and she gets up at
Speaker 3: seven o'clock and she still she has to walk the
Speaker 3: dog and be at the train, and I'm like, yo,
Speaker 3: how are you doing this? But she makes a happen,
Speaker 3: She makes a happy happen. She makes that happen. Michelle
Speaker 3: gets up at seven and, you know, to get to
Speaker 3: school every day at the absolute latest that he can arrive.
Speaker 1: You know, I know you're big on food. Are you
Speaker 1: the food person in the house?
Speaker 3: I am, Yeah, I cook. I do all the grocery shopping,
Speaker 3: and I cook almost well, eighty ninety percent of the
Speaker 3: grocery shopping, and I cooked eighty ninety percent of the meals.
Speaker 3: But yeah, also in the morning, I do that Joe
Speaker 3: to Spenders twenty five minute morning meditation. I knocked that
Speaker 3: out work out with you know physical Sometimes I work out,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like when I'm in a
Speaker 3: workout period, I work out. But if that's the vibe,
Speaker 3: then then then I worked out nothing. When I was
Speaker 3: fresh off the LL tour, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And I found out that our mayor's trainer happened to
Speaker 3: live ten minutes from my crib and you know, we
Speaker 3: had gotten close on the road. It was like, yeah, cool,
Speaker 3: let's work out, you know what I mean. I did
Speaker 3: it for a solid month after we got off the road,
Speaker 3: and then you know, we trickled off, you know it.
Speaker 3: It's Thanksgiving. But yeah, I'll be back you know January. Yeah, anintuarady,
Speaker 3: no doubt. You know when in terms of your writing,
Speaker 3: like writing songs, writing rhymes, how often do you write
Speaker 3: and what does writers block look like for you? Well,
Speaker 3: I get home from work at night, I eat dinner,
Speaker 3: and then I go into my office and I write.
Speaker 3: I either try to read full least an hour or
Speaker 3: write full least an hour before I come back to
Speaker 3: you know, because my office is over the garage, so
Speaker 3: it's like it's almost like I come in the crib,
Speaker 3: I have dinner, and then they say, oh, you're leaving us,
Speaker 3: you know what. I'm out. It's like I go across
Speaker 3: the driveway and then I work, you know some more,
Speaker 3: and I do the same thing in the morning.
Speaker 1: So your office is outside the house.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: On a writing note, I just want to I want
Speaker 6: to ask about this, this one hundred three thousand quote
Speaker 6: that he recently said. I was just talking about this
Speaker 6: with Pante too, where he said that at this age
Speaker 6: he's not doing hip hop because what does he have
Speaker 6: to talk about, like going is to get a colonoscopy.
Speaker 6: What do you feel about that? Because when I heard
Speaker 6: that in my friend we were like, yeah, we actually
Speaker 6: would like to hear about things.
Speaker 3: Cause I think I think that's it. I think there
Speaker 3: are I don't really get writer's block like that. I'm
Speaker 3: always able to come up with something just because of
Speaker 3: the amount of of you know, constant like information, like
Speaker 3: the intake, you know what I mean, it's content being
Speaker 3: projected at me. You know, every turn, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. I drive in, I'm listening to PRX, which
Speaker 3: is all twenty minute chunks of storytelling, which is dope
Speaker 3: because it just it gets me into just being a
Speaker 3: more efficient storyteller. I listen to NPR if I want
Speaker 3: to hear something along form. I listened to you know,
Speaker 3: Urban View for you know what I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: black people politics, and that's it. Like if I'll get
Speaker 3: no bars off, it's like that, right, I mean the
Speaker 3: black ego, you know what I mean. But that's the
Speaker 3: type shit, you know, that's where the bars come from.
Speaker 3: Whether I agree with it or not, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, It's always a springboard, you know, like into
Speaker 3: a thing. Are you writing like to beat or you're
Speaker 3: just writing just sometimes I'm writing not to beats, but
Speaker 3: it's more exciting for me to write to beats. I
Speaker 3: got a batch your joints from mad Lib for example,
Speaker 3: like you know, maybe two three weeks ago he hit me.
Speaker 3: He was like, Yo, Monday, I'm gonna start bombarring with joints. Boom,
Speaker 3: Monday rolled around. He sent me like a hundred beats,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. And then I got the
Speaker 3: beats and it was like I narrowed it down to
Speaker 3: like eighteen and I started, you know, vibing to those joints.
Speaker 3: But yeah, you know it's exciting now for me like
Speaker 3: to come home and like dig through that sort of
Speaker 3: that that that collection. I went to La. We were
Speaker 3: in this. We had a couple of sessions in La
Speaker 3: over the weekend. I came back. So that's sort of
Speaker 3: what I've been like chipping away at.
Speaker 7: But yeah, say we had is that Like.
Speaker 3: No, I went I went to La to do a
Speaker 3: book event at USC But I'm gonna always you know,
Speaker 3: the studio is my church, Like that's why I feel
Speaker 3: most at home. So if there's any possibility for me
Speaker 3: to go and sit in the studio someplace and hear
Speaker 3: music and chill and smoke and be social, whether I'm
Speaker 3: actually actively working on the thing or not, then that's
Speaker 3: what I'm going to opt for, you know what I mean. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: I went out there, I did my book thing, and
Speaker 3: then I went into the studio. I was in the
Speaker 3: studio with man Rich Richard Nichols. We talk about undone today.
Speaker 3: Was is the anniversity of undone. That was the second
Speaker 3: time that I got called to be on the record
Speaker 3: and we did one time and that was the first time,
Speaker 3: was that one? And also how I got over That
Speaker 3: was the first time I really got to see how
Speaker 3: integral Rich was to the recording process because I had
Speaker 3: never been like in the studio with y'all. So I
Speaker 3: wanted to just hear from you, like what he was
Speaker 3: kind of to you as you know, as a mentor manager,
Speaker 3: Like what role did he play kind of? And you know,
Speaker 3: for me, yeah, Rich was a mentor. I've always been
Speaker 3: big on mentorship, you know. Yeah, I don't know where
Speaker 3: I would be, you know without it. He lived by example,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, in many ways, and was
Speaker 3: you know, he was the roots, I mean, above and
Speaker 3: beyond an executive producer. I always talk about he was
Speaker 3: just sort of the brains of this operation, you know
Speaker 3: when he really, you know, laid down the groundwork for
Speaker 3: us to be able to you know, I don't think
Speaker 3: our Mayor and I would be as self sufficient as
Speaker 3: we are. I mean, had he not you know, been
Speaker 3: focused on that, you know, ten twenty years before it
Speaker 3: mattered to us, you know. So you know what he
Speaker 3: was was he was that, he was the he was
Speaker 3: on both of us. She was you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: and influence. Yeah yeah, and you know, just working with him,
Speaker 3: like having him uh in on the process.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 3: You know, I knew the ball. I was gonna always
Speaker 3: be at my best, you know what I'm saying. Always always.
Speaker 3: He was gonna always push us, even when you know
Speaker 3: you might it might be something that you you really
Speaker 3: feel like you you killed it and you you have
Speaker 3: taken it as far as you could take it. Yeah, No,
Speaker 3: he's gonna you know what I mean. He was the
Speaker 3: voice of reason and he would bring you back down
Speaker 3: to reality in that way. Talk about that you working
Speaker 3: with us in the roots? I was I felt threatened
Speaker 3: by you when you worked with this, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, just because I was like, how was this?
Speaker 3: You know, Rich sent you back to the drawing board,
Speaker 3: but not as much as he was sending us, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean? And I know it wasn't you
Speaker 3: go and I know I know, I know it wasn't
Speaker 3: because like we were you know, I mean, his family.
Speaker 3: It was because he was just more content with what
Speaker 3: you were doing. So I was like, what the fuck
Speaker 3: is going to take doing that? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: He only had to rewrite his ship like ten times, like.
Speaker 6: You know, so this is the first time most of
Speaker 6: us are hearing that somebody could make either one of
Speaker 6: y'all rewrite.
Speaker 3: Rich was like, well, we came when out when I
Speaker 3: did the verse for one time, because the thing was
Speaker 3: it was the one time it was it was now
Speaker 3: or never first, it was now or never, And I
Speaker 3: came to do that one and I just wrote a
Speaker 3: verse because he would. I would I'm like, okay, so
Speaker 3: what's the song about? Rich? And Rich would send me
Speaker 3: like a chat.
Speaker 2: For real.
Speaker 3: I'd be like, okay, nigg imad what none of this
Speaker 3: ship mean all right, I'm gonna And so I did
Speaker 3: my verse and I just did it, and what none
Speaker 3: of y'all. Y'all wasn't dead. It was just me and
Speaker 3: spawned in the studio. So I think even Richard left
Speaker 3: and so I did my joint and I'm like, all right,
Speaker 3: I think I don't know. I guess this works. And
Speaker 3: so I went to the crib, went to the hotel,
Speaker 3: and the next morning and he called me, and I
Speaker 3: didn't hear nothing because normally rich you know, he would
Speaker 3: text or.
Speaker 1: I would get something to say, I ain't here shit.
Speaker 3: And I'm like okay. So he called me, He like yeah, man,
Speaker 3: uh yeah, I mean yeah, I'm gonna need you to
Speaker 3: go at it again. I'm like, all right, cool, And
Speaker 3: so I went again, and I remember the note he
Speaker 3: gave me was he was like, I wanted to make sense.
Speaker 3: It can't just be dope as a rap. It has
Speaker 3: to make sense on the page, like if you're just
Speaker 3: reading it it's poetry, you know, or its literature. It
Speaker 3: hasn't make sense in that way. And I was like, shit, okay,
Speaker 3: got it. And so then I did the second draft,
Speaker 3: and then that was when he called me back for
Speaker 3: the day with Blue. And when he called me back
Speaker 3: for that, I was like, hell, yeah, cause that was
Speaker 3: one like I loved it. It's like one of my
Speaker 3: favorite even without me on, that's just one of my
Speaker 3: favorite songs catalog. And so he did that one. But
Speaker 3: through all of those times, man, he was really because
Speaker 3: I understood, like I'm walking into a studio, nigga, it's
Speaker 3: you truck porn he was. When Poem was getting his ship,
Speaker 3: I would I would show up, like you know, and
Speaker 3: I was living in La at that of course, big
Speaker 3: up the dice. I would show up and they would,
Speaker 3: you know, because it was so competitive. They would all
Speaker 3: you know, clamor to get their ideas on the beat
Speaker 3: before I heard it, so that I was, you know,
Speaker 3: just more married to you know. That's how why the
Speaker 3: first experience the the you know, the composition, right, I
Speaker 3: would hear they were like, yo, you got to hit
Speaker 3: this beat, And the first time they playing it for me,
Speaker 3: I hear porn versus you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 3: it was competitive in that way. But by the way,
Speaker 3: Greg porn case you know rag porn. But yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: Fonte for rich to even you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: be concerned enough to send you back to the drawing board. Man,
Speaker 3: I appreciate means it means that you were brilliant because
Speaker 3: he would, you know, just as quickly like nah, I
Speaker 3: mean we he couldn't give us what we needed and
Speaker 3: we would just you know, me move on because it
Speaker 3: was so many other people sort of waiting for that slot.
Speaker 3: But he was concerned with elevating you know, hip hop
Speaker 3: lyricism to literature and elevating you know, hip hop culture
Speaker 3: to fine art. And he was, you know, he was
Speaker 3: so disgusted. Always discussed with the state of black lyricism,
Speaker 3: like R and B lyrics like you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: the ship that you know he fucked over right rich
Speaker 3: fuck up, the whole family cookout, just dissecting, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. Yeah, what we did. I remember what
Speaker 3: we did one time for undone, and I remember the
Speaker 3: note he gave me. He was like, you know, you
Speaker 3: have to be a character. He said, I don't want
Speaker 3: you to just rap this, Like you can't just be rapping,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And he played me when
Speaker 3: I first when I first got there, it was before
Speaker 3: you got in the studio. He played me sleep okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: and he played me sleep. I was like, oh, this
Speaker 3: shit hard, and he was like, man, RE did that
Speaker 3: like thirty times like I had him doing. I'm like, damn.
Speaker 3: So I went into do I did mine, and I
Speaker 3: mean it was in that particular case. The lyrics I
Speaker 3: got right because he was pretty much by that time,
Speaker 3: I kind of knew the science, so I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3: I see what he's going for now. But the performance, yeah,
Speaker 3: he drilled me on that shit. He's like, nah, I
Speaker 3: want you to do this word say it like that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I you know now, you know I hate
Speaker 3: doing the lyrics. And you know what rich Rich would
Speaker 3: do with me sometimes he would, you know, just get
Speaker 3: me to do it that many times, and then he'd
Speaker 3: do a composite. That's when you do a composite of
Speaker 3: you know, the best syllables from you know, thirty different
Speaker 3: takes and then you know, he get this composite and
Speaker 3: it'll be That was the chat gpt of it all,
Speaker 3: because that was like, okay, now this is AI. But
Speaker 3: then he said, okay, so we can either use this composite,
Speaker 3: which you know, nine times out of ten I wouldn't
Speaker 3: want him to use just because it's a different sort
Speaker 3: of you know, feeling like there's nuance that is different.
Speaker 3: But you know, the composite will become the example and
Speaker 3: then it's like, you know, if you can't do it,
Speaker 3: it's dope, Like give me a take like this or
Speaker 3: better or the composite is what we're using now and that, Yeah,
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. Because with that, that kind of was
Speaker 3: something that changed my mind because for me, I know,
Speaker 3: as MC's we pride ourselves on getting it in one tape. Yes,
Speaker 3: like yeah, this is one tape. Oh yeah, which ever?
Speaker 1: Take?
Speaker 3: Which ever? Take? His right, that's the first one, that's
Speaker 3: the one. But like for him, I kind of started
Speaker 3: to see it more and looking at making records almost
Speaker 3: is like making a film in the sense of that
Speaker 3: you're really just trying to capture the best performance, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying it because you want to and
Speaker 3: down that's it, Like it's like that forever, you know.
Speaker 4: What I mean.
Speaker 7: Was Rich just integrated in the live performance as he
Speaker 7: was in the studio.
Speaker 1: He was our sound guy.
Speaker 6: I mean even in the way that you presented just
Speaker 6: not just the sound of it all, but even the
Speaker 6: way that you y'all presented yourselves on stage.
Speaker 1: I mean, Rich built the myth of the roots because
Speaker 1: before us, you know, your average band was maybe ninety
Speaker 1: six DBS, which is like a normal listening spirit. Rich
Speaker 1: was trying to create some Pink Floyd shit where we
Speaker 1: were one hundred. Yeah, we were like one hundred and
Speaker 1: forty d B. He would like, I mean the whole
Speaker 1: idea of like echoes and all that stuff because because
Speaker 1: also the thing is is that we weren't hit space,
Speaker 1: so we had to make the show fall right.
Speaker 7: So it was he like like, I'm gonna need you
Speaker 7: to work the stage more like I gonna need you
Speaker 7: to he.
Speaker 3: Would give he would give notes like that. He would
Speaker 3: give notes like that. I mean, but you would be
Speaker 3: able to tell, you know what I mean, Like if
Speaker 3: we get done the performance and we get back to
Speaker 3: the dressing room, I'm like, yeah, how was that ship?
Speaker 3: That ship?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: He wasn't going to uh, you know, he wasn't very
Speaker 3: generous in that way. So you know, even if he
Speaker 3: said that ship was cool, it meant it.
Speaker 6: Was cool, y'all right, Because I'm like, I remember the first,
Speaker 6: the first the only time I got a compliment from
Speaker 6: Rich and it changed my life.
Speaker 5: Like I got a question along those lines. I caught
Speaker 5: the four tour like a month ago. It was last
Speaker 5: It was in Boston, was the last one. And my
Speaker 5: favorite thing is not just you as the leader of
Speaker 5: the roots, but you was hype man. It was one
Speaker 5: of my favorite things to watch, like l and all
Speaker 5: of it was. I didn't know you were such a
Speaker 5: great hype man. Oh and it was what I just
Speaker 5: don't know if you could speak to that, and just
Speaker 5: but what it's like to be with some of your
Speaker 5: heroes are you know, people you really respect and hype
Speaker 5: and hype in front of them.
Speaker 3: It was it was far out, it was, you know
Speaker 3: for me, that's that's one of my favorite things to do,
Speaker 3: is to be supportive, Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I just enjoy sparring back and forth with those legends.
Speaker 3: Like but people who you know, are the reason that
Speaker 3: I do what it is that I do, and many
Speaker 3: of whom just feel unsung or you know, underappreciated. It
Speaker 3: blows in mind, you know what I'm saying, to realize
Speaker 3: that something they wrote when they were fourteen or fifteen
Speaker 3: or sixteen that impacted me when I was fourteen or
Speaker 3: fifteen or sixteen. Now these thirty or forty years ago,
Speaker 3: it's still you know, has a life, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. So, and you know a lot of these cats,
Speaker 3: I think the role that the Roots serves is we're
Speaker 3: connective tissue between a generation, right, you know what I mean? So, yeah,
Speaker 3: we've been that bridge. And there's a lot of cats
Speaker 3: who you know, maybe at one point of their career
Speaker 3: we're at a certain level and then they don't perform
Speaker 3: for a long while, and then when they have the
Speaker 3: opportunity to perform again, it's like, I you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, is my music going to be right? Do
Speaker 3: they know my lyrics? All these people familiar with what
Speaker 3: it is that I do, and you know the fact
Speaker 3: that they may be coming back with the Roots puts
Speaker 3: them at ease because of the way that you know,
Speaker 3: like musically and from a just a hypeman standpoint, we're
Speaker 3: able to support them, you know. So that's something that
Speaker 3: I've always you know, just appreciated and enjoyed it. I'm
Speaker 3: not about on stage trying to I don't want any
Speaker 3: attention on stage, like don't even look at me, look
Speaker 3: at dude, just you know, I'm about the sound. You know,
Speaker 3: so it works out for me in that way. But
Speaker 3: the Forces Tour was a dream come true and that
Speaker 3: we got to do that every day, you know.
Speaker 1: All right, So let me ask probably one of the
Speaker 1: biggest myths of black thought is your relationship with freestyling.
Speaker 1: There's three particular stories I want you to talk about,
Speaker 1: all right. I won't need you to do a forty
Speaker 1: five minute freestyle, okay, so of course I know that
Speaker 1: shout out to ESPO from Philly for catching uh that
Speaker 1: clip of us in the alleyway or whatever, like doing
Speaker 1: the freestyle thing, which is which basically set your legend.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about do you remember the time Scott
Speaker 1: Scott story? No, no, no, no, Do you remember that
Speaker 1: moment when we were at the Trocadero with Hansoul and
Speaker 1: we drove home and he freestyled that entire time in
Speaker 1: the backseat? I do Did that have an impact on you?
Speaker 1: Because the next day you said it once You're like,
Speaker 1: that's the level that I have to supend. Like, can
Speaker 1: you talk about like how if that had an impact
Speaker 1: on you as far as like rhyming on the spot,
Speaker 1: because I've seen you do it in high school but
Speaker 1: kind of in a funny way like battling.
Speaker 3: But there was yes to answer your question. I remember
Speaker 3: that night coming home from the track. I remember Han
Speaker 3: Soul freestyling, and I remember the way it made me feel,
Speaker 3: not necessarily threatened, but just you know, competitive, you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, The same way that I felt, uh
Speaker 3: when I came up and the first time I saw
Speaker 3: Rozelle and Supernatural and Muhammad performing at that boom poetic thing, right,
Speaker 3: I came back to Philly like it, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like, fucking dude, you're awake
Speaker 3: and you're not rapping like like niggas in New Yorkers,
Speaker 3: they're like, yo, they fucking rapping right now? Dog Like
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, you gotta be able to
Speaker 3: go like off the top. But Toron, that's how I was,
Speaker 3: so yeah, I think, uh, you know, it was more
Speaker 3: of that, you know what I mean. I wasn't necessarily
Speaker 3: it wasn't like I didn't feel threatened, but I was
Speaker 3: just super competitive, you know, and I knew you know,
Speaker 3: people who went to college with me, people went to
Speaker 3: high school with me. There always tell you about oh
Speaker 3: this one time, you know, to regrap for three hours
Speaker 3: and we walked from here to here or drove from
Speaker 3: here to there, and he never stopped rapping. But there
Speaker 3: was something, There was a gravitas, there was a seriousness
Speaker 3: in it that night, and what Hans was doing that
Speaker 3: made me like, okay, like this is a thing. There
Speaker 3: was a level of mastery to it, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. So yeah, I definitely, yeah, that was the takeaway.
Speaker 3: So can you give your version, like I know, richest
Speaker 3: version of the Kanye bathroom situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you remember, And we were backstage at Universal Amphitheater, right,
Speaker 1: I didn't know who Kanye West was then, so I
Speaker 1: think like he just did get by like he was
Speaker 1: hanging with quality or whatever. And again, because of the
Speaker 1: legend of Treek's the best restylist ever, you know, motherfuckers
Speaker 1: would just come up and think, you know, the rappers
Speaker 1: that want to rap, just like yeah, I hate that
Speaker 1: too with musicians, Like musicians want to like, hey, let's
Speaker 1: have a jam session or right, you know, start drumming
Speaker 1: and talking and I'm like, I don't do that shit
Speaker 1: on my off hours or whatever. So Rich told me
Speaker 1: a story once about like you were changing for show whatever,
Speaker 1: and then Kanye decided this is my moment and just
Speaker 1: starts freestyle in front of you. Can you tell that
Speaker 1: story because I never heard your side.
Speaker 3: I mean you you know, like what like back in
Speaker 3: the day, we would show up for our sessions. Kanye
Speaker 3: would be in there sometimes, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: eighty eight Keys would be in there. Sometimes they were
Speaker 3: down with Kenny Douro. They were down with you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. You know people who worked in studios
Speaker 3: wh would give him a heads up, you know on
Speaker 3: who had sessions, and they would be in there and
Speaker 3: trying to place their beats and and rap FO for
Speaker 3: niggas ambushers, right, And you know my thing with Kanye
Speaker 3: was I would I would run into him more while
Speaker 3: we were shopping. So I would be in Atlanta or
Speaker 3: Chicago or LA at the place where you knowever everybody
Speaker 3: goes to get clothes. Yeah right, yeah, so whatever the
Speaker 3: popping you know what I mean story is at the
Speaker 3: Barney's or you know Fred Sieg or whatever back in
Speaker 3: the day, and Kanye would always be in there and
Speaker 3: he would always see me. And now Kanye would be like, Yo,
Speaker 3: what you got you know what I'm saying. So he
Speaker 3: would be the type of person that he wants to
Speaker 3: see everything you putting on the counter, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, And he want to go back and see
Speaker 3: if you want to get that or if you want
Speaker 3: to switch out. So I would, you know, be sometimes
Speaker 3: in a store or in like a mall and Kanye's there,
Speaker 3: and now I'm grabbing shit to try and throw him
Speaker 3: off the center of the trail, make him think I'm
Speaker 3: gonna get this stuff, and that's not what I'm gonna get.
Speaker 3: The night that you're talking about, we showed up to
Speaker 3: our gig. It was a Kon in the roots in Erica.
Speaker 3: If I'm not mistaken, and Kanye was dead, I forgot. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that was the first time I met a Kon. He
Speaker 3: was over enough with him and Kanye was in there,
Speaker 3: and he immediately goes into his shit. Oh shit, what's that?
Speaker 3: Oh you got them y threes? What's that? And he
Speaker 3: started like picking apart everything that I had on. So
Speaker 3: now I'm trying to get dressed and my whole shit.
Speaker 3: Like the reason why I was annoyed, it wasn't even
Speaker 3: that he started rapping or that he was talking about music.
Speaker 3: I was used to him doing that, but he was
Speaker 3: trying to you know, I mean like sort of tag
Speaker 3: picked my shit apart and be like, oh you got
Speaker 3: to this, you got to that, you got to that.
Speaker 3: Oh oh yeah, oh I'm up on that, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. And it was like that was what
Speaker 3: I'm like, you just get the fuck out of here,
Speaker 3: like I'm getting dressed, nigga, Like I'm trying to you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. And I think that was, you know,
Speaker 3: that's what happened at university that night. I have a
Speaker 3: theory about the flex freestyle. Yeah I knew how hard
Speaker 3: you and Malik prepared in ninety three, like the mentality
Speaker 3: of like, yo, motherfucker's in New York are you know?
Speaker 1: We got to come with it. And I remember once
Speaker 1: like we were driving to New York and we were
Speaker 1: listening to like a best of Barbido and Stretch Armstrong
Speaker 1: thing and we were like, wait a minute, that's a
Speaker 1: B side. We've heard that rhyme before, wanted and it
Speaker 1: was kind of a there's no Santa Claus yeah realization,
Speaker 1: but you to still kept that. And I remember once
Speaker 1: you guys did a session which you did so many
Speaker 1: freestyles for all these name brand DJs that never wound up,
Speaker 1: like there's volumes of freestyles that you've done that are
Speaker 1: probably still Yeah, it.
Speaker 3: Was like one of the MCA like we're going to
Speaker 3: promote you know what I mean, like ye know for
Speaker 3: all of the radio Mixed show d right, Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1: So for you.
Speaker 3: Knowing that was your first time after thirty two years
Speaker 3: of never being.
Speaker 1: Invited on Flex's show, were you and kill Bill. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna show you not to ever deny me again, because
Speaker 1: that wasn't regular, That wasn't just like oh by a
Speaker 1: minute seven, I was like, oh, this is a revenge mission.
Speaker 3: No, No, I wasn't. I wasn't really on kill Bill mode,
Speaker 3: you know, I was for me. I don't know if
Speaker 3: you recall that was a Thursday that I did that joint.
Speaker 3: It was we had taped to tonight shows, so I
Speaker 3: was tired. It was like twenty below zero, freezing cold,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying on farm parking. I had
Speaker 3: my assistem at the time, like outside waiting in my
Speaker 3: car like double parked. So it was just like the
Speaker 3: urgency of trying to you know, get in and out.
Speaker 3: And I knew, you know, Flex and I have been
Speaker 3: texting back and forth for maybe six months at that point,
Speaker 3: just trying to figure out a window that made sense.
Speaker 3: And what was that first text like when finally like
Speaker 3: he acknowledges that were not me five yeah, yoh no, no,
Speaker 3: I was you know, sorry, I was like, wow, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean? I think, Yeah, it was definitely.
Speaker 1: I was surprised. I was surprised. I was surprised.
Speaker 3: And you know, I don't know if I think leading
Speaker 3: up to that, you know what I mean, Flex's olive
Speaker 3: branch flex. His way to show that it was coming
Speaker 3: from an authentic place was he just started offering to
Speaker 3: spend fors like Yo, any boos, gigs, y'all got, I'll
Speaker 3: pull up. I'll just rock for y'all. You know what
Speaker 3: I mean. I don't know if you remember this is
Speaker 3: the moment that changed his mind. I don't know, but
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, We.
Speaker 1: Didn't you do another oh the method maybe the method
Speaker 1: Man thing, because even Jay hit me about the method.
Speaker 3: But by the time I did the methad Man free
Speaker 3: style flexing, I had already been talking for like, you know,
Speaker 3: damn near a year about me coming up to flex.
Speaker 3: The metha Man freestyle just took place. Because we were
Speaker 3: promoting that HBO show and you know, there's no way
Speaker 3: we could go somewhere and it's me and metha man,
Speaker 3: and they not ask us to rap, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. But yeah, you know, when I did that
Speaker 3: flex freestyle, it was like, you know, I mean, roming
Speaker 3: off the top rapping period. It only matters to it.
Speaker 3: It's so niche, you know what I'm saying. So I
Speaker 3: just wanted to represent for those people who sort of
Speaker 3: gave a fuck, you know, and I wanted to It
Speaker 3: had to be one take because I had to get
Speaker 3: out of there, you know what I mean. I was
Speaker 3: ready to go home. And my fear is that he
Speaker 3: was just going to interrupt you and not let you finish. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's enough, And I was like no, no, no, okay,
Speaker 3: he let him go on, right, But you know, for me,
Speaker 3: can you.
Speaker 1: Talk about did that finally feel like a redempt dimptive
Speaker 1: moment for you which finally got your flowers?
Speaker 3: It felt, yes, that moment, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: like the moment that you know that followed.
Speaker 1: Like would you do that night when you got home?
Speaker 3: Oh, I just jill probably you know what I mean
Speaker 3: a little bit and went to bed. Yeah, I went
Speaker 3: to Yeah, yeah, it was I need to say.
Speaker 1: I mean that I hate to say. I actually cried.
Speaker 3: No, it wasn't. It wasn't until yeah, it started to
Speaker 3: go viral and I you know, I saw folks re
Speaker 3: retweeting it and you know what I mean, like reposting
Speaker 3: the joint. That's when it started to feel like, oh wow,
Speaker 3: you know, because I never like I was still knew
Speaker 3: I guess the social media, you know what I'm saying, like,
Speaker 3: I just really started rocking, you know, with the Instagrams
Speaker 3: and twitters of the world, you know, relatively recently at
Speaker 3: that at that point, So yeah, it was it was
Speaker 3: just dope, you know what I mean. It's it's it's
Speaker 3: dope to be acknowledged to that point about social media
Speaker 3: for you know, you're saying, you know what, I'm on
Speaker 3: stage like, I don't want you to really see me
Speaker 3: at all. So how do you deal with now in
Speaker 3: the era of you know, of music just entertainment period
Speaker 3: where you have to have that prey of some sort,
Speaker 3: you know, some sort of presence online or I mean,
Speaker 3: it's it's it's just it's a delicate balance, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. I do, it's just gonna sound crazy.
Speaker 3: It's like I basically do the bare minimum. You know,
Speaker 3: I do the bare minimum, and I'm able to still
Speaker 3: somehow feed my family. But you know, there's a bunch
Speaker 3: of a lot of what I do is also in exercise,
Speaker 3: in overcoming you know, the anxiety associated with you know,
Speaker 3: doing shit, you know what I mean. So when I do,
Speaker 3: like if I force myself to go and do a
Speaker 3: hot type five of stand up, like that's a you know,
Speaker 3: an exercise in me, you know, just becoming more comfortable
Speaker 3: to my own skin in front of an audience without
Speaker 3: having any safety net, you know, the same.
Speaker 1: Talk about that because I feel like a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't know that you're heavy into stand up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know I got I got heavy into
Speaker 3: stand up. I got heavy into you know, musical theater
Speaker 3: when I was you know, when I'm working on Black
Speaker 3: No More. That's what I'm doing a series right right,
Speaker 3: it is, it's still you know, still a thing, and
Speaker 3: I'm now you know, heavy into I mean, I mean,
Speaker 3: I think the medium with which we tell the story
Speaker 3: is ever evolving, but the story sort of remains the same,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. How do you. I was
Speaker 3: gonna ask you about just your memory in terms of memorizing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Like how do you go about just memorizing all of
Speaker 3: those Like when you're doing the Roots picnic and you're
Speaker 3: something once, Yeah, you just do just aric a verse,
Speaker 3: Like you just come up and just do a verse
Speaker 3: or something. How do you just I guess log all
Speaker 3: that stuff. I don't know, man, it's like you, I
Speaker 3: think I'm using a part of my brain that is,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'll just tapped into, you know, something
Speaker 3: that probably would otherwise have laid dormant if I didn't
Speaker 3: sort of force myself to, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: work with something outside of my muscle memory.
Speaker 6: Wait, so to that point the book, I found myself
Speaker 6: reading this and being like, fuck, I know smokes, but.
Speaker 3: The details well not as much anymore though, right, not
Speaker 3: much places, a little bits enough. But you know, I
Speaker 3: think that's attributable to Rich Rich's genius too, in that,
Speaker 3: you know, just in the storytelling as a writer. You know,
Speaker 3: he would challenge you to be as visual as possible
Speaker 3: and the conjure up that that imagery, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying, to make you see and feel and smell
Speaker 3: a thing.
Speaker 6: But to smell something like you're a six year old,
Speaker 6: six year old self, that's deep and to be able
Speaker 6: to describe that on paper.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I guess it is.
Speaker 1: So I have a question.
Speaker 8: So I'm writing a tell all book right now actually
Speaker 8: about about the two of you. Do you have any
Speaker 8: advice for somebody who wants to know? I'm just kidding,
Speaker 8: but and when's the the rematch? The fight rematch? The
Speaker 8: audience wants to know that it's it's going to be
Speaker 8: a love hucks, but we want to know when the
Speaker 8: when the remattress or whatever?
Speaker 1: No, no, I mean, what are you allowed to talk
Speaker 1: about as far as Black No More is concerned, because oh,
Speaker 1: we can talk about it's so weird. Like when you
Speaker 1: started Black No More, Obama was president, so sort of
Speaker 1: in that House of Cards way, like you clearly knew
Speaker 1: it was going to be a satire because you know,
Speaker 1: it's never going to get that crazy, right, And then
Speaker 1: suddenly once Trump was president, then it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is relevant to times now. So at one point
Speaker 1: it was an extreme satire and then became reality.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's the thing, you know, I mean, at this
Speaker 3: point it's it's not as far fetched as it was
Speaker 3: or as it felt you know, you know before the
Speaker 3: Trump and Biden administrations. You know what I mean. This
Speaker 3: was originally slated to you know, to open off Broadway
Speaker 3: during the Trump elections, you know what I mean. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean I think this, you know, rejiggering that you know,
Speaker 3: it needs to take place. There's you know, very much
Speaker 3: that we need to sort of be revisited. But just
Speaker 3: you know, for for the fact that you know, what
Speaker 3: felt so dynamically sensational six years ago, eight years ago
Speaker 3: no longer feels that way. It's like that has been
Speaker 3: our reality and worse, you know what I mean, so
Speaker 3: much off the wall shit has happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for those don't know. The Black Memoir is a
Speaker 1: book written by George Skyler. Yep I thinking like it
Speaker 1: was like one of the first half.
Speaker 3: Of her futurist books I nineteen thirty two.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, and he basically, uh, it's just it's
Speaker 1: a satire about a black man who changes his skin color,
Speaker 1: falls in love with a white woman and now she's pregnant, right,
Speaker 1: and she will eventually find out that which this that that's.
Speaker 3: That's a show that was on Bravo last night right,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 6: What I mean, It's like, you know, how do we
Speaker 6: how does he know because he watches Bravo but it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, we gotta we gotta sort of punch
Speaker 3: it up a little bit, I think, just to make
Speaker 3: it more you know, as far fetched said as it felt. Uh,
Speaker 3: you know at its own set. Actually, you are one
Speaker 3: of the most random TV watching people. I know, Like
Speaker 3: what are you watching?
Speaker 1: And how do you pick? Because you and Jimmy will
Speaker 1: talk about the most random you'll discover ship on QB
Speaker 1: or whatever like Tubby.
Speaker 3: To me, I was like QB QB was a that
Speaker 3: was quibi? Yeah that was that lasted like ten minutes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Like what mindless ship do you watch? Or like what's
Speaker 3: what shows right right right now I'm watching, I'm watching
Speaker 3: you know bass Lowman bass Reads. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: Lorman bass Reeves is uh is about this US Marshall first,
Speaker 3: the first black US Marshall. Really it's the character. It's
Speaker 3: the real life person that the Lone Ranger character was
Speaker 3: based on, you know what I mean, which is based
Speaker 3: on a black person. Yeah, the Lone Ranger was based
Speaker 3: on the black person. But you know they weren't gonna
Speaker 3: have it. I mean they're like, yo, let's make it
Speaker 3: a black a white man and put a mask on.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so Bass Reeves. Uh, it's this dope show
Speaker 3: that I've been watching recently, yellow Yeah, it's in the
Speaker 3: Yellowstone family and all worth it.
Speaker 1: Yes it is.
Speaker 3: This is what else I was gonna say anything Yellowstone
Speaker 3: eighteen eighty three. That's level.
Speaker 1: I must watch different, different, different, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I think I'm always excited when somebody could get period right,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And they got period right,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean every time.
Speaker 6: So and also the inclusion of the indigenous culture and
Speaker 6: just giving us more context be human.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's they gotta run.
Speaker 1: So I'll go on Apple TV and you see, yo,
Speaker 1: watch it.
Speaker 3: I'm watching that. I'm watching that now, Bass Reds, I
Speaker 3: mean Lowman, Bass Reads. I'm also watching well yeah, the
Speaker 3: Gilded Age and saying, have you seen Killers of the
Speaker 3: Flyer Moon yet? No? I hear it. Yeah yeah I
Speaker 3: haven't watched that yet. But Fargo, the new season of Fargo,
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, four episodes in. Yeah, but you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, And I've been Uh, I keep coming
Speaker 3: back to just because it's like I can never Even
Speaker 3: though it's only three episodes, I think they're like an
Speaker 3: hour and a half long each. The American Buffalo documentary
Speaker 3: Kim Burns, which is, you know, it's not just about
Speaker 3: the Buffalo, you know what I mean, it's really about
Speaker 3: America and you talk about indigenous people and I'm just
Speaker 3: a history buffer that way. So I've been rocking with that.
Speaker 3: I found out that it was out because Celia came home.
Speaker 3: She was like, they made us watch this documentary today
Speaker 3: in school. I'm sure you would be into it. Was like,
Speaker 3: I was like, what is it? She was like about
Speaker 3: the American Buffalo.
Speaker 1: I was like, do tell it was Kim Burns, And
Speaker 1: I was like, ship, like.
Speaker 3: You know, hell yeah. So I've been watching that only
Speaker 3: because I have to watch it Burns documentary maybe like
Speaker 3: five six times to you know, take in all the
Speaker 3: information you thought with rap shit on HBO. I watched
Speaker 3: the first season. Second season is better. I mean, the
Speaker 3: first season is good, but the second season is it's good.
Speaker 3: I have I have I haven't seen.
Speaker 5: Every father's impression of their teenage daughter is exactly the same.
Speaker 1: Because I think.
Speaker 3: You're right, yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do your kids like, are they aware? Are you dad?
Speaker 1: Are you or are they like do you catch them
Speaker 1: listening to your music?
Speaker 3: Or yeah, you know I aren't you worry for them? No, No,
Speaker 3: I catch a Mayor listening to my music. You know.
Speaker 3: He does his little playlist and stuff, and sometimes even
Speaker 3: his playlist of other music that he's listening to in
Speaker 3: the shower and all that. You know, it's dope to
Speaker 3: see that he's somehow found music that I was listening
Speaker 3: to when I was in my twenties two without me
Speaker 3: having to say, let me put you onto it. So
Speaker 3: there's that. It's a leid, you know, does this same thing,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? She listens to my music,
Speaker 3: She has a little bit, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she's becoming a hip hop here. But Tarike, he's never
Speaker 3: been into any of Mommy. The only root song, roots
Speaker 3: thing that Tarik has really that has resonated with him,
Speaker 3: not our Disney Junior stuff as what you would think.
Speaker 3: It's the Blackish thing. So the June Team Blackiest thing,
Speaker 3: that's you know, uh, And that put him on to
Speaker 3: the whole Schoolhouse rock world and he started listening to
Speaker 3: the original I'm just the bill and all the original
Speaker 3: Schoolhouse rock shit and then the new Schoolhouse rocks you
Speaker 3: and then the new New Schoolhouse rock shit, all just
Speaker 3: from ours year, from our Blackish segment. So this is that,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, but what he's up on
Speaker 3: and what I'm still trying to dissect because it played
Speaker 3: out the same way with Kamala's kids, who were like,
Speaker 3: you know, two and six or two and eight, No,
Speaker 3: Tarika is eight. Maybe Kamala's kids the youngest kids are
Speaker 3: two and six. They all know every word that Mama
Speaker 3: said knock you Out, and they've owned They saw l
Speaker 3: performing a couple of times that they came to the
Speaker 3: shows with us. But for some reason, this is the
Speaker 3: first rap song Toreek known all the lyrics to Camar's
Speaker 3: Little Baby. You know what I mean? Cash Like, they
Speaker 3: all listen, they know all of the from Don't Call
Speaker 3: It A And I'm like, that's what I need to
Speaker 3: tap into, you know what I mean. It's like, Yo,
Speaker 3: they don't be my.
Speaker 1: Son, but we talked.
Speaker 3: I've never heard the show. None of my children have
Speaker 3: ever sang one of my joints the way to Reek
Speaker 3: sing Don't Call It a comeback.
Speaker 7: I'm like, yo, like out of a mad physical movements
Speaker 7: in the right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's definitely something in that that and that's what Yeah,
Speaker 3: and that's why I told you. I was like, Yo,
Speaker 3: we need to use that joint that we did want
Speaker 3: to yo because there might be something in that. And
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's the music or the lyrics
Speaker 3: or the marriage return.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, my okay. So you know, we redid Mama
Speaker 1: for the NBA mid season, the mid season tournament, and
Speaker 1: the my initial idea, I knew they wanted Mama said
Speaker 1: knock you out. But also LL's kind of this place
Speaker 1: where it's like, yo, man, I'm not a legacy act
Speaker 1: like that sort of thing. But you know, the people
Speaker 1: that write the text are like, nah, man, we just
Speaker 1: just do your song from nineteen ninety please and take
Speaker 1: this check. So I was like, all right, let me
Speaker 1: find a happy meeting. So I actually did something dope
Speaker 1: where I reversed because I'm also working on the Slide movie.
Speaker 1: I have access to the masters, so I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, let me reverse the song. And you know,
Speaker 1: like what Terminator actually edge Panic was to rebel without
Speaker 1: a pause, like the sirens going backwards so I did
Speaker 1: a backwards version of shit and it sounds dope as shit,
Speaker 1: and even LLL was like, uh, let's let's not.
Speaker 3: Give this to them, like listen, even l I was like, God,
Speaker 3: it's great, right, So it am I mean, because I
Speaker 3: mean we see you working, you know, I mean you
Speaker 3: you know, been dropping projects left right in terms of
Speaker 3: you know, a roots record. Now that Rich is no
Speaker 3: longer here in that role, who is in that role?
Speaker 3: For yeah, there is you know, I don't know that
Speaker 3: there's anyone in that role, y'all think I think no
Speaker 3: have to be. Yeah, yeah, we've We've had to extend ourselves,
Speaker 3: not necessarily over extended, We've had to extend ourselves in
Speaker 3: order to fill in that gap. You know, because Sean,
Speaker 3: though he is he's he's an innovative, He's not necessarily
Speaker 3: a creative, you know what I mean. He's a business mind.
Speaker 3: He's an innovative mind. He's not a creative. And that
Speaker 3: was the beauty of the balance between him and Rich
Speaker 3: was like, you know what I mean, hot and cold,
Speaker 3: you know. So yeah, so there's that. But I think
Speaker 3: in terms of an album being done, I think we
Speaker 3: got plenty of material. I think it's just gonna boil
Speaker 3: down to you know, I may or not being excited
Speaker 3: enough in any moment to do the mix is necessary
Speaker 3: to say all right, this is the ten songs or
Speaker 3: twelve songs or however many that are gonna be album.
Speaker 3: But we got enough joints. You know, we have more
Speaker 3: than enough.
Speaker 1: I just for me once a week, I guess excited
Speaker 1: about something else, and then I'll replace it and replace
Speaker 1: it and replace it.
Speaker 7: That's the problem because really would and Richbn want to
Speaker 7: come in and be like mother.
Speaker 3: It's just like in your dreams thing, then in your
Speaker 3: dreams thing got shelved because it's just like, look, we
Speaker 3: got to wrap up. Do you want more?
Speaker 1: We're not going to get this ship done in time.
Speaker 1: So that's the one thing I don't have, which is like,
Speaker 1: all right, no more new songs.
Speaker 3: There's there's there's value in our procrastination in that, you know,
Speaker 3: once we put out anything, then it's out right right now.
Speaker 3: The bar is where the bar is. What the Roots
Speaker 3: brand means to people is what it means. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I think there's something in that. I think the whole
Speaker 3: what makes the Roots the Roots is the fact that
Speaker 3: we've always you know thought and then overthought right in
Speaker 3: the process. So I think now the idea is to
Speaker 3: pull it back a little bit. We don't need to overthink,
Speaker 3: but I think we still need to be as considerate
Speaker 3: in the process as we you know, have or in
Speaker 3: the past, because that's that's the difference when people say, yo,
Speaker 3: what's the difference in me in the roots? In me
Speaker 3: on somebody else's shit, is like, I'm just gonna pull
Speaker 3: up and I'm gonna almost go with the first thing
Speaker 3: that comes to my mind. That's why streams of thought
Speaker 3: is called streams of thought because it's like, it's as
Speaker 3: close to a freestyle as you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm just letting the it's the first thing that I
Speaker 3: think of, which you know and many times is dope,
Speaker 3: and you know it's witty and funny, but it's not
Speaker 3: what we do in the roots. It's not rich challenging
Speaker 3: me to you know, something that's gonna fucking you know,
Speaker 3: resonate just reading it off the page. That's not what
Speaker 3: I have to do. If I'm in the studio with
Speaker 3: Ninth or Salime or Sean c. And that's part of
Speaker 3: you know, that's what informs it and makes it it's
Speaker 3: a dope exercise because it's not as it's not something
Speaker 3: that I won't say. I don't take it as serious.
Speaker 3: But it's just a different process, I understand, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. It's a different process, you know. So
Speaker 3: I mean I think in that like, you know, the
Speaker 3: roots album, especially based on what dictates enough material to
Speaker 3: be an album in this day and time, we've got
Speaker 3: multiple new roots albums done. What do you feel like
Speaker 3: or do you feel like y'all have anything to prove
Speaker 3: on the album front?
Speaker 1: Like what would be the So the one thing that
Speaker 1: has occurred to me and then you shoot your cousin
Speaker 1: came out in twenty fourteen. So we're going on the
Speaker 1: tenth year and I probably have done twenty thousand hours
Speaker 1: of DJing. Now, the DJing that I've done post twenty
Speaker 1: fourteen is different than the dj and I've done pre
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, in which, you know, jams are far and
Speaker 1: few between, and I'm the kind of guy that unless
Speaker 1: like I'm doing a gold party or like it's a
Speaker 1: high pressure situation where it's like all right, well Drake, syah,
Speaker 1: so let me play some trap like the shit he knows,
Speaker 1: I'm always the guy that like, I now know how
Speaker 1: to read my audience in a way that I didn't before,
Speaker 1: Whereas before I was obsessed with letting you know, yeah
Speaker 1: I got that Japanese printicolege that you don't got, and
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not looking at the floor clearing and
Speaker 1: none of that shit. I'm so I'm so hyper aware
Speaker 1: of what works and what doesn't work as a DJ
Speaker 1: that now as a creator starting to bleed into I
Speaker 1: can't divorce myself from her. So now I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: like is this the right bpms? Where's the melody at?
Speaker 1: What should we talk about? Like things I never thought
Speaker 1: about before, like well this resonate with the audience.
Speaker 3: In recent years, you know, like when a mayor gives
Speaker 3: me a beat or like an idea for a composition,
Speaker 3: he does a whole separate track now of just like
Speaker 3: a guide track of him saying okay, like you know,
Speaker 3: the okay, the verse can start here, you talk about
Speaker 3: this here and then okay, like here you can do
Speaker 3: something like what was like now I'm like Nigga just
Speaker 3: right around. But yeah, he's definitely you know, just paying
Speaker 3: attention to a lot more of the detail with anything
Speaker 3: that I think that's a good thing. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: a beautiful thing. Yeah, because you have new information. Yes,
Speaker 3: I'll be calling you Jordan. Oh, I mean okay, but
Speaker 3: I sit, I concentrate.
Speaker 1: But also like the movie was unexpected, Like you know,
Speaker 1: the movie was a thing that, oh, let me just
Speaker 1: pass the time in the pandemic, and now it's like,
Speaker 1: oh god, now I got two careers.
Speaker 7: So both of y'all, y'all schedules are crazy between the both.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm trying to think of things that, like
Speaker 1: the Internet always wanted to know. I'm not asking any
Speaker 1: masterpiece theater questions because it's like, dude, he's done like
Speaker 1: swimming records. But what I will ask is what five
Speaker 1: m sees that are least expected for us to know?
Speaker 1: You dig because the second time we talked about rap shit,
Speaker 1: he sold me on turn this mother Out. And I'm
Speaker 1: like hammer and I joked, I joked once on what
Speaker 1: had happened was that I'm almost certain that our love
Speaker 1: of Apache or rhyming over Apache had more to do
Speaker 1: with Turn this mother Out than it did men at work.
Speaker 1: But Tarik is like instantly Tarik sold me on it. Yo,
Speaker 1: you know about n W A and I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: they got Jerry Curls. I ain't listening to shit, and
Speaker 1: he's like, but listen to this, and then he played
Speaker 1: me turn this mother altum like you like MC hammer.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I thought like great, nice was corny and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, man. But that's the thing, Like Tarik
Speaker 1: has a way of listening to anything, like I go
Speaker 1: on the tour of b US and listen to A
Speaker 1: Paul and MJG. Yeah, I was like, I never listened
Speaker 1: to Pastor Tchoy in this lifetime, and then suddenly like
Speaker 1: I'm Pastor Joy's number one fan. So it's like Tarik's
Speaker 1: put me on to so much unorthodox things that normally
Speaker 1: my snobby East Coast era ass like what what EMC's are, Like,
Speaker 1: you're under championed, non obvious ones, non kine non.
Speaker 3: Like of from back in the day or just period Karen,
Speaker 3: you know, I think Special Led is an unsung you
Speaker 3: know hero in that you know his album The Youngest
Speaker 3: in Charge, you just talk about just the power of
Speaker 3: youthful expression, and he was especially that was fourteen years old.
Speaker 3: I look at my kids at fourteen. It's like, you know,
Speaker 3: I when it's like if I'm in a moment where
Speaker 3: I have to just rap a rap, I'm gonna pull
Speaker 3: from you know, anywhere, I rapped from anybody's catalog, shit
Speaker 3: that you don't even remember you wrote. But one of
Speaker 3: the you know rhymes that I often do is, you know,
Speaker 3: I was proven effective by a clinical test because some
Speaker 3: couldn't come to believe I'm the best, so they tested me,
Speaker 3: and now they're in the clinic. They almost arrested me
Speaker 3: because I did it, but I didn't mean to do it.
Speaker 3: You had to mess with me and then you blew it.
Speaker 3: Now you gotta chew it, swallow it all. I guess
Speaker 3: that's the way that you bounce the ball like this
Speaker 3: is a fourteen year old wrote that, and that's that's timeless,
Speaker 3: Like I can, you know, depend no matter what the
Speaker 3: soundbit is, the music that I put it over, like
Speaker 3: those bars will forever like rain poetic and you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, like bring something up and folks that
Speaker 3: hear it? Who was my one? You wish you could
Speaker 3: that was my That was another? I mean especial levels,
Speaker 3: just super dope. So I think he's he's one of
Speaker 3: those ones. I think, you know, cool Keith, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean for the whole. I think cool Keith
Speaker 3: Man ship. I mean he was like, you know, the
Speaker 3: thelonious monk of this ship in that you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: his ship didn't even have to rhyme, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. And they they were him and said like
Speaker 3: ultra magneticum Seas were ahead of their time in so
Speaker 3: many ways. So yeah, I think, you know, cool Keith
Speaker 3: is another one, Greg Nice, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: He's I think just geniuses that I was able to
Speaker 3: recognize and latch onto, and that it's something from their
Speaker 3: body of work that I've extracted that, you know. I mean,
Speaker 3: I still these are I kicked all of all all
Speaker 3: of the above. I kicked their bars every day, like
Speaker 3: this ship just came out. Anybody currently, Yeah absolutely, I
Speaker 3: mean you know, we will sell you in the roots
Speaker 3: the force to use rocking ma comedy and yeah, yeah, Macky,
Speaker 3: that's that's my ace, you know what I'm saying. He
Speaker 3: was in the studio with It's just the other night Mark,
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, I think he's one of those ones,
Speaker 3: you know, someone who again understands just a sensibility of
Speaker 3: you know, a person who's been around since the nineties,
Speaker 3: but who's also in just some ways just feels you know,
Speaker 3: still cutting edge, right, and I think his association with
Speaker 3: the whole Griselda family and that movement, but the way
Speaker 3: that he's distinctly you know, different, is huge too, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. I saw you did. We were
Speaker 3: on the same album, Your Old Drew. That's that's the
Speaker 3: second person I was about. The name man's yeah, and
Speaker 3: your Old Drew is is actually he's my connection to
Speaker 3: my COMI. But he's another one. You know. When Your
Speaker 3: Old Drew came out, I didn't rock with it because
Speaker 3: I felt like, yeah, I thought his voice, I thought
Speaker 3: he sounded too much like Nads and I'm not you know,
Speaker 3: I'm huge on you know, just you know, being being
Speaker 3: originally you know what I mean. And I was like, nah,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not rocking with this shit, like you know,
Speaker 3: I think it was Hoodie season or one of those
Speaker 3: first joints, you know. But I met him on the
Speaker 3: road opening up for Royce and Premiere when they were
Speaker 3: doing their prime tour and we sort of hit it off.
Speaker 3: And you know what I mean, I've been you know,
Speaker 3: I talk about mentorship and you know, just artists that
Speaker 3: we shared demos with one another, and I'm able to
Speaker 3: just you know, offer sage wisdom and they're not gonna
Speaker 3: catch feelings if I say I don't like this one
Speaker 3: and I like that one. He's been one of those
Speaker 3: artists and over time, you know, I was trying to
Speaker 3: get at Mock and he was non responsive until Drew
Speaker 3: put us on the same song and then you know,
Speaker 3: like sort of connected us, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Then now, yeah, you know, he and I, me and
Speaker 3: Mark be rocking. But yeah, you're old Drew. He's another
Speaker 3: one man. He's just super dope. And uh, you know
Speaker 3: I had to. I had to give it up, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, because he proved that he was
Speaker 3: a real deal.
Speaker 6: I need everybody to realize, who hasn't read this book,
Speaker 6: that we probably only covered about.
Speaker 7: Two to three of his talents. Now in this book, there.
Speaker 6: Is history that gives you history on his gourmet cooking
Speaker 6: talents because yes, he's a gourmet chef. There's history to
Speaker 6: his visual arts talents because that's what he went to
Speaker 6: school for.
Speaker 7: There's also history singing talent. Just about to stay that
Speaker 7: the man signing the I was shocked. I was like
Speaker 7: but I.
Speaker 3: I can sing fine, taking sad.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, But I just I just
Speaker 6: wanted to throw that out there as we are, you know,
Speaker 6: wrapping this up, and I just feel like it's.
Speaker 1: Just what most people say, read the book, read that.
Speaker 3: But noah, Man, I just want to say, Man, before
Speaker 3: we go, dude, you have really been you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. I mean, first to even say that you
Speaker 3: felt threatened, I mean, that's just the crazy shit. Ever,
Speaker 3: because when I got that call, I I was jumping
Speaker 3: off the damn wall. I was like, what, like hell yeah?
Speaker 3: So but nah, man, you've been one of the people
Speaker 3: that I watched just and has been an example of
Speaker 3: how to age in hip hop, like how and how
Speaker 3: to do it gracefully and tastefully, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So my question for you was who or did you
Speaker 3: have anyone as an example to say, Okay, this is
Speaker 3: what hip hop looks like at forty or fifty, like,
Speaker 3: this is a model. Did you have that? I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, not that I didn't. I mean, yes, I
Speaker 3: did have that, but I don't know that I was
Speaker 3: as aware of it or just tapped into the example
Speaker 3: as it was being set. But you know, I look
Speaker 3: at people like you know, the ll who J's of
Speaker 3: the world, and even though it's been a long time,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, since he's done a tour, right,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, just the example of being
Speaker 3: one of the earliest like multi hyphenis right, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, just the whole polymath of it all.
Speaker 3: Like with the example of him in iced Tea, you know,
Speaker 3: like set as far as like reinvention, I think it
Speaker 3: was dope and I think, you know, just you know,
Speaker 3: the example of being a class act, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean is what resonated with me, like the most
Speaker 3: with artists, like you know, the reason LLL is around
Speaker 3: and still matters and you know, like people care, you
Speaker 3: know about all these other endeavors. What it is that
Speaker 3: he's doing is because he's personable and he's you know,
Speaker 3: he's nice to folks, and you know, he you know,
Speaker 3: is conscious about leaving a place or a person or
Speaker 3: thing better than he sort of found it. And I
Speaker 3: learned that the first time I inducted like we inducted
Speaker 3: maybe even ducted ll into like three you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, National Archives at this at this time. But
Speaker 3: but the first time I did it it was me
Speaker 3: and Eminem and Jazzy Jeff and it was like the
Speaker 3: Hip Hop Honors thing and he called me the next day.
Speaker 3: I'm like, he found my number, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Boom you know they called Meik's on the phone for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah cool Jay. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I just want
Speaker 3: to thank you for you know what I'm saying, Yo,
Speaker 3: the wave represented be last night huge huge, like yo,
Speaker 3: but it's those, it's those you know, Elverson call you.
Speaker 3: L Ella is going to send you a handwritten thank
Speaker 3: you now, you know what I'm saying. You know, sent
Speaker 3: l L A d M. Jokingly like, yo, I see
Speaker 3: everybody you know doing these boom box I'm boxing they
Speaker 3: you know, uh uh rock the bells jackets with my
Speaker 3: joint at like you know, ship seventy two hours later,
Speaker 3: this is from Mellow Cool J. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I got my jacket and you know, yeah, yeah yeah,
Speaker 3: it's just like h I think I think you know
Speaker 3: that that is an example of how to you know,
Speaker 3: to age, to grow, to evolve gracefully in this game.
Speaker 3: I think another dope example has been set by Dana
Speaker 3: like Queen Latifah. You know what I'm saying, just you know,
Speaker 3: and these are people who like what they do. The
Speaker 3: challenges that they're able to continue to rise to is
Speaker 3: what gives me reassurance. Like, yo, I probably could do
Speaker 3: all the shit, you know, out of all the people
Speaker 3: that I know, right, I've never known anyone in my
Speaker 3: circle or even remotely you know, distantly connected to my
Speaker 3: circle that has never given up on a thing and
Speaker 3: didn't you know, make it. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: It's like everybody that I know who shit didn't work
Speaker 3: who you know what I mean, fell off the rails,
Speaker 3: they gave they gave up, quit, they quit, niggas who
Speaker 3: I know. I know a bunch of people who didn't quit,
Speaker 3: and they've all gone on to greatness, you know. So
Speaker 3: I think there's something in that. And yeah, I try to, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, just be more cognizant of those examples again,
Speaker 3: like when they're being set, because you know, a lot
Speaker 3: of the shit is a blur.
Speaker 1: Nah man. Look, I will say with out beings as
Speaker 1: mushy as possible, and this is this, this and this
Speaker 1: is real maturity right here. Well to reque you know,
Speaker 1: no one ever gets that reference. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: here's the deal in my first book when they were like,
Speaker 1: all right, do a dedication and moment right right, and
Speaker 1: there was like do a dedication and I was like
Speaker 1: I just want to say well to Reque and that's it,
Speaker 1: and you know, the publishers like, well lips this after it,
Speaker 1: I said, he's going to get He's going to understand. No,
Speaker 1: Like well to Req was always and the way that
Speaker 1: manifesting works is whenever we would like to take the
Speaker 1: trains back from like busking or whatever, like we would
Speaker 1: have a ritual of like getting famous aime As cookies,
Speaker 1: getting orange juice and either watching Do the Right Thing
Speaker 1: or Cape Fear and as we're walking home like two
Speaker 1: in the morning, very related films. I'm with it. I
Speaker 1: just did a streaming. But we have options now we have,
Speaker 1: you know. And the thing was I do some sillies
Speaker 1: with like well Toeriq Man. We just did like two
Speaker 1: months in Europe straight.
Speaker 3: But I'm saying shit as if it would never going
Speaker 3: to happen to in lifelie like damn Tiq. We just
Speaker 3: playing in front of like twelve thousand people at the
Speaker 3: Philadelphia Spectrum Man and we're only home for like three
Speaker 3: hours before we got to get up at four in
Speaker 3: the morning and.
Speaker 1: Catch this flight to like Colorado. We be laughing like
Speaker 1: ah man, this's whatever, and not knowing that we're literally manifest.
Speaker 1: So I would always start some shit with well tariq
Speaker 1: uh and I'll just simply say thank you, and that's
Speaker 1: a very loaded thank you without being super mushy about it.
Speaker 1: And I'm a mushy person. Good just fight again. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: and fran Mama here, thank you. Thank you all for
Speaker 1: having me the great three Tota or Inquest Love Supreme.
Speaker 1: You guys can stop to ask me as episode. See
Speaker 1: you the next go around, y'all. Thank you.
Speaker 8: This is Sugar Steve. Thank you for listening to Quest
Speaker 8: Love Supreme. This podcast is hosted by a Mere Quest
Speaker 8: Love Thompson, Liya Saint Clair, Fonte Coleman, Sugar Steve Mandel, and.
Speaker 1: Unpaid Bill Sherman.
Speaker 8: Executive producers are a mere Quest Love Thompson, Sean g
Speaker 8: and Brian Calvin. Produced by Britty Benjamin, Jake Payne and
Speaker 8: Liah Saint Clair, Edited by Alex Conroy. Produced for iHeart
Speaker 8: by Noel Brown and Mike Johns.
Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.