Speaker 1: Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This
Speaker 1: classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Speaker 2: Yo, y'all check it out.
Speaker 1: It's Fonte Fantigolo here with this week's QLs classic. All right,
Speaker 1: this week we talked to the man, the member of
Speaker 1: the legend, Marley Mal. This one was originally released January eleventh,
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: And listen, it's Mally Mal. You already know what it is, Marlly.
Speaker 1: Mal Juice crew, you talking everything ll mamasa to knock
Speaker 1: you out.
Speaker 2: He shared some of the studio secrets.
Speaker 1: And talks about how he earned the spot as a
Speaker 1: legend in the really New York City scene. This is
Speaker 1: an incredible episode with one of my favorite producers of
Speaker 1: all time.
Speaker 2: Get into it. QLs classic. Alright you Peacy.
Speaker 3: Pramo self Primo rod ca so Primo self Premo, roll
Speaker 3: call Suprema something something Selpremo roll call Suprema something something
Speaker 3: Supremo roll call.
Speaker 1: My name is Questo. Yeah, I know the time there
Speaker 1: weep in the rocks. Yeah, at the jump of a dime.
Speaker 3: Suprema something, Supremo role called Suprema son something, Supremo role.
Speaker 1: My name is fante. Yeah, I got so much soul. Yeah,
Speaker 1: West Love Supreme. Yeah, and we in control God.
Speaker 3: Suprema something something, Supremo, Role call, Suprema something Supremo.
Speaker 4: Role call.
Speaker 1: My name is Steve, yeah, without a flaw. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: call me sugar. Yeah, Supremo, roll.
Speaker 5: Call, Suprema Son Supremo, roll call Bill. Yeah, to the
Speaker 5: extreme yea dropping bars Yeah, Chris Love Supreme.
Speaker 3: Ro car Suprema Son, Suprema, roll call Suprema Son Son Supremo, roll.
Speaker 1: Call jump rhyming. Yeah, I have no skills. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: what's my name?
Speaker 3: Yeah call Oh, Suprema Son, Suprema, roll call Supremo.
Speaker 6: Yeah, wit New Year's Blessings. Yeah, I can't wait to play.
Speaker 3: Yeah, roll Suprema, So Suprema, roll call Suprema So Supremo.
Speaker 4: Role called.
Speaker 1: My name is Morley. Yeah, it's all on me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when we get through. Yeah, what's it for me?
Speaker 3: Oh, Sprema Son, Son Supremo, roll call Suprema Son, Son,
Speaker 3: Suprema Role Suprema, Supremo, Suprema Son Supremo Role.
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode
Speaker 1: of Course Love Supreme, the first of this New Year,
Speaker 1: Happy New Year to all of you, Supreme. Yes we
Speaker 1: made it. We we Yes it did not drink ourselves
Speaker 1: at all last year. We did not drink ourselves whatsoever. No,
Speaker 1: I'm your host, quest Love, and we have another really
Speaker 1: great show in store for you. On the show today,
Speaker 1: we have one of the most important people in hip
Speaker 1: hop history. And that's not an exaggeration. No, but I'm
Speaker 1: known to exaggerate. I'm known to go full extreme on everything.
Speaker 1: But no, seriously, you know, no, seriously, I would no
Speaker 1: for real, this this this, this man was a pioneer
Speaker 1: and and he is history. And I don't want to
Speaker 1: make it sound like it's it's it's old in the past,
Speaker 1: but this man is one of the most important figures
Speaker 1: in mind. His DNA runs through everybody, Yes, in the
Speaker 1: development of some of the best moments in hip hop history. Hey, hey, hey,
Speaker 1: I don't breathe dust. Now, let's welcome our elder tell
Speaker 1: let's just give it up for Mollie, mam. Hey, hey,
Speaker 1: what's going on?
Speaker 3: It's going on?
Speaker 1: Lest Hello, how are you? How are you? Thank you?
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming? Uh you know to be here?
Speaker 1: You know you called and I gotta come here at
Speaker 1: the drop of a dime. You came, you came. Yes, Uh,
Speaker 1: we have so many questions, uh for starters. I'm really
Speaker 1: glad that you're here. Because for all of the folklore
Speaker 1: that we've heard about hip hop history in the Bronx
Speaker 1: and the in the Bronx and the Bronx and the
Speaker 1: Bronx and the Bronx, I know that the other girls
Speaker 1: have their history too, and that's rarely, rarely, rarely heard about,
Speaker 1: no doubt, no doubt. And I know that you were
Speaker 1: born in Queens Queens, Queensbridge Projects, you know, ninety six
Speaker 1: buildings of terror AKA, you know, but that's why I
Speaker 1: was brought up in L I C. Queens Bridge Projects. Really,
Speaker 1: so you were born there and you born and raised there.
Speaker 1: I lived there all my life. I mean, my mom's
Speaker 1: she was there before I was born, you know, and
Speaker 1: then you know, then when I'm when I was born,
Speaker 1: then we moved to another apartment, and then we was
Speaker 1: there for forty more years.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 1: I'm lucky enough to be able to get my mom's
Speaker 1: up a house in my career later on in life
Speaker 1: and finally move out the project. But my moms was
Speaker 1: there for over forty forty joints. Wow, So what was hardcore?
Speaker 1: So what was what is the history of hip hop
Speaker 1: coming to queens? Like to hear to hear the focalos
Speaker 1: say it was only in the Bronx and only in
Speaker 1: the Bronx, But I mean for you to be as
Speaker 1: legendary as you were, you are you telling me that
Speaker 1: you had to travel all the way to the Bronx
Speaker 1: to get well. The first time I ever heard hip hop,
Speaker 1: it was I was in high school because we had
Speaker 1: DJs and queens. There was more on the on the
Speaker 1: disco tip, you know, because when you when you when
Speaker 1: you look at hip hop and what they did for
Speaker 1: and coined the phrase hip hop around what they were doing.
Speaker 1: It was a little different from what everybody else was
Speaker 1: doing in the city. You know, when Cool Herk had
Speaker 1: his parties, he was playing the break parts of the
Speaker 1: of the music and queens they was playing the whole mute,
Speaker 1: the whole record, the whole song, the whole song, but
Speaker 1: they was taking the break sections. And you know that's
Speaker 1: why I could say that. You know, everybody had DJs,
Speaker 1: everybody had their movement, everybody had they toasters on the mic.
Speaker 1: But I could tell you that that that hip hop element.
Speaker 1: It definitely came from Cool Herk because he was the
Speaker 1: first person. And maybe it wasn't on beat, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I heard the tape site right right,
Speaker 1: really right, It wasn't really on beat, but you know
Speaker 1: they were. They brought something different. They was playing at
Speaker 1: the break big part of Apache where in Queens would
Speaker 1: have played the whole record. So did you just come
Speaker 1: out the gate love of music? Like how did music
Speaker 1: and spending your life like in your childhood? It got
Speaker 1: to me because my older brother Larry Ladd in the
Speaker 1: in the record The Bridge last year, it was like
Speaker 1: Jappie Jack Gas cool brother by the name of Gas
Speaker 1: t Tom and then my brother Larry Ladd it was
Speaker 1: early DJs in Queensbridge and the Bridge record because you know,
Speaker 1: in the Bridge record, we was just stating, you know,
Speaker 1: what we saw growing up, right, So we were stating
Speaker 1: the things that we saw. We never said hip hop
Speaker 1: started in that rhyme. Yeah we know that, but you know,
Speaker 1: we just was describing things we've seen growing up. And
Speaker 1: my older brother was a DJ and you know, my
Speaker 1: stepfather kind of you know, talked them out of being
Speaker 1: the DJ, and like, yo, you know, you know, there's
Speaker 1: no real money in that. You don't going to service
Speaker 1: man going to service. So he went to service on something,
Speaker 1: you know. But it was all good because he went
Speaker 1: to the service and he worked at NASA and retired
Speaker 1: from NASA, so he did really well. You know. I
Speaker 1: took the DJ route who records. Yeah, that's why you
Speaker 1: know my record, my my library's kind of extensive because
Speaker 1: I got their records when he left. I had a tachi,
Speaker 1: I had, you know, a lot of the records that
Speaker 1: I was sampling was their records. So you have a
Speaker 1: natural version, right, had their original the African woman with
Speaker 1: the other on the other side, the colorful one. Wow. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So what was digging like back then? If there wasn't
Speaker 1: a thing that's digging culture. I mean, for me, digging
Speaker 1: was just going to my brother's creates that that stuff
Speaker 1: they used to play because they were dancer guys. They
Speaker 1: was you know, there was there was break dancers before
Speaker 1: break dances. Everybody was a dancer. On every DJ crew
Speaker 1: had like their dance crew with them. I could just
Speaker 1: say it like there you go. So in older records
Speaker 1: they used to play. Digging for me was just going
Speaker 1: through some of my brother's old records that they used
Speaker 1: to play, because I used to see them play a
Speaker 1: lot of records, and by the time I got to
Speaker 1: be a DJ, I would remember a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: that would make the party move. And I would just
Speaker 1: go right into my brother's records and then h to
Speaker 1: be honest, a lot of the records that I would
Speaker 1: find and start sampling. Then they would make those breakbeat records.
Speaker 1: After this around my brother, I started DJing around about
Speaker 1: seventy eight or seventy seven. I got the bug. There
Speaker 1: was like a song called Disco seventy seven out I
Speaker 1: had drums on it, and you know, and I heard that.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh okay, And I played at a
Speaker 1: you know, a house party in Queensboro. It was probably
Speaker 1: around that time. But before that, my brother and them
Speaker 1: was dj and in the park. They was the first
Speaker 1: DJs to come out in Queensbridge. It was the first time,
Speaker 1: you know, ground zero hip hop was my brother and
Speaker 1: them doing they break they dancing and all that in
Speaker 1: the middle of the block. And so that, you know,
Speaker 1: then everybody else started DJing out there. So would they
Speaker 1: They would throw the parties in Yeah, they would throw
Speaker 1: the part and Queens and Queensbridge Center, or they would
Speaker 1: be on the block first. Then it got so big
Speaker 1: way they had to take it to the river park
Speaker 1: across the street, Queensbridge Park. So how in my in
Speaker 1: my mind, I'm thinking the folklore of you know, the
Speaker 1: park jam that you always hear hip hop a story
Speaker 1: and speak of all right, being as though you've seen
Speaker 1: every level of presentation from the park jams to full
Speaker 1: blowing concerts straight from the tapes. You gotta start with
Speaker 1: the tapes that was just circulating the city first. But
Speaker 1: what I want to know is what were the sound
Speaker 1: systems really like? Oh, okay, right, well, I could tell you,
Speaker 1: to be honest, I'm gonna just go down the line.
Speaker 1: The Bronx they had like a lot of house speakers
Speaker 1: put together, like a lot of people putting this, you know,
Speaker 1: like housing them together. Ye're putting their house speakers together,
Speaker 1: piling them up, taping them together. And that's how they
Speaker 1: used to come out, which was cool because you had
Speaker 1: to use what you had, right and Queens they had
Speaker 1: a little bit more money so that the sound systems
Speaker 1: was a little better. The King Charles and these guys
Speaker 1: used to come out with you know, they had. They
Speaker 1: had rich Al Long systems, really rich store them like
Speaker 1: they believe me, King Charles and them, they they had
Speaker 1: I believe they had the Richid Long system. And you
Speaker 1: know Twins had a Richid Long Sis Disco Twins had
Speaker 1: Richid Long births. The Queen's Guys was coming out with
Speaker 1: the birth is Brooklyn now since the Caribbean and Brooklyn
Speaker 1: was always bumping forever. You know, there was always Eastern Parkway,
Speaker 1: so that rubbed off on the DJs. So so when
Speaker 1: you was coming through on Eastern Parkway with the Jamaican music,
Speaker 1: somebody figured out, Yo, you don't got to be playing
Speaker 1: Jamaican music with this music. With this sound, you could
Speaker 1: put hip You could put Thisco, regular records, regular records.
Speaker 1: So Brooklyn was banging with systems because Eastern Parkway was
Speaker 1: always the ship okay, and and it kind of rubbed
Speaker 1: off because you got to think about, this is what's
Speaker 1: never mentioned in hip hop and the creation of hip hop,
Speaker 1: and I was formed, Jamaica has a big influence on
Speaker 1: how it was started. Here you look at the main people,
Speaker 1: the main players, Hirk, you know the system guys. You
Speaker 1: know the sound system guys used to come out the
Speaker 1: you know, what's his name, Pete DJ Jones, and you
Speaker 1: know all these guys used to come out with big systems, right,
Speaker 1: what's his name? King Charles was Jamaican. He had one
Speaker 1: of the biggest systems in the city back in the days.
Speaker 1: So just let our listeners know in Jamaica, like the
Speaker 1: more bass you had, the more bass cabins you had,
Speaker 1: you know, stomach rumbling inducing, right, basis that was the
Speaker 1: important factor right now when you speak with cool Herk,
Speaker 1: he was basically probably jamming, bringing his music out. For
Speaker 1: what he's seen when he's in Jamaica. As a kid,
Speaker 1: the music was always out. He got to America, you
Speaker 1: was boring around here bringing the music out. You're talking about,
Speaker 1: I see, let's go to the park, Let's take it
Speaker 1: to the let's have a party of it, bring the
Speaker 1: music out, the sounds. What are you talking about? Let
Speaker 1: me show you what I'm talking about. He did it.
Speaker 1: Then he probably got bored and playing the whole record
Speaker 1: to get down part Oh, that's the part of everybody
Speaker 1: get excited about. I'm gonna do a whole party, which
Speaker 1: is playing nose. That's what he said, and that's how
Speaker 1: it started. I was gonna play the hot part of
Speaker 1: the records. That's it. You were playing these parks in
Speaker 1: seventy seven. No, I was watching the Disco Twins, my
Speaker 1: brother and them was playing probably about seventy five ish,
Speaker 1: seventy four ish and three ish. By then my brother
Speaker 1: went to the service. I started seeing the Disco Twins
Speaker 1: come I got in high school. I heard rap for
Speaker 1: the first time, and you know, I had formed my
Speaker 1: own little crew. I was a little DJ around the way.
Speaker 1: We wasn't we wasn't doing we wasn't we wasn't rocking
Speaker 1: break beats. We just we was doing what we saw. Okay,
Speaker 1: you get what I'm saying. So we saw the Disco
Speaker 1: Twins in our area, so I obviously we was following that.
Speaker 1: But when I heard rap and got my crew together,
Speaker 1: the game changed. I'm assuming that around seventy eight, seventy nine,
Speaker 1: it hits you or like, how are those tapes come
Speaker 1: from the Bronx? How do they go to queens?
Speaker 7: Like?
Speaker 1: All right? So it was it was weird because those
Speaker 1: tapes in the early part of hip hop, man, you know,
Speaker 1: when they was only doing it in the Bronx and Harlem,
Speaker 1: those tapes would go throughout the city like fucking like
Speaker 1: the Internet, right, they were spread throughout town like the Internet.
Speaker 1: Everybody would be coming to school with one of those tapes,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was the greatest thing about that time.
Speaker 1: You know, the schools were so integrated in New York
Speaker 1: City at that point. You have people from Harlem in
Speaker 1: your school. You have people from the Bronx in your school.
Speaker 1: You know, you have people from Queens. So one good
Speaker 1: thing I can say about the schools in New York
Speaker 1: City you was able to see everybody's style because everybody
Speaker 1: was it was all integrated. You know, people was from
Speaker 1: Manhattan in your school, so you got to see what
Speaker 1: they was doing in Manhattan. I was in a school
Speaker 1: called Manhattan High. We act dudes from the Bronx. So
Speaker 1: what would they doing in lunchtime? If somebody wasn't over
Speaker 1: there beating on the table, somebody was coming through a
Speaker 1: big radio playing a breakout tape with echoes, and everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I heard somebody rhyming over dance with
Speaker 1: the drummers beat. It changed my life, really, yeah, that
Speaker 1: changed my life.
Speaker 2: I heard it.
Speaker 1: It was this way before rappers light and yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this before rappers. I heard it was just a breakout
Speaker 1: tape and you know it was dancing drummers beat and
Speaker 1: of course they was cutting it off beat because you
Speaker 1: know they ain't probably didn't have Q yet. But he
Speaker 1: was out there talking and going to freak out out
Speaker 1: and they had the echo on it. It was burnt.
Speaker 1: He was going yeah, yeah, yes, yes, y'all y'all and
Speaker 1: the echo out YO. Me and Polo looked at each
Speaker 1: other because Polo was in my school DJ he was
Speaker 1: in my school. We looked at each other like, yo,
Speaker 1: what is wow? And Yo. The rest was like it
Speaker 1: was yo. I went and started a crew, a short
Speaker 1: shot crew in Queensbridge after that, and I was on
Speaker 1: my way at Queensbridge is this time like if you
Speaker 1: live there all your life, why are you recognizing a
Speaker 1: three year old Nazia Jones? Do you see that's nave
Speaker 1: old prodigy the little the toy guns in the window.
Speaker 1: I wasn't. It wasn't quite like that. The funny thing
Speaker 1: about Proligy wasn't from the Bridge but Havoc. He actually
Speaker 1: lived in Burnoff Fowler's building because it's so much burnoff
Speaker 1: foul from the Peace Boys. That also yeah, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: from QB. He sings, he sings with the Rolling Stones
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, yeah, so he they lived in the
Speaker 1: same building. Damn like lightning struck twice in that building.
Speaker 1: So the Peace Boys, that whole family is from that.
Speaker 1: Burno Off Fouler and his brother Fred and yeah and
Speaker 1: his sister. I never knew that. Yeah, from Queensland. Now.
Speaker 1: I was in the next building from that making all
Speaker 1: my hits. Really yeah, that was on twelfth Street. So
Speaker 1: I used to hear Havoc's uncle blasting the music out
Speaker 1: of his window on the fourth because the Fowlers, I
Speaker 1: think they lived on the first or the second in
Speaker 1: the building. And then the Anything Dimples delved in the
Speaker 1: next building. So it was a lot happening on twelve
Speaker 1: Street right there. So you would have the system battles
Speaker 1: of the windows, yes, yes, yes, and right in the
Speaker 1: windows your own radio. It was battling right out the window.
Speaker 1: And that's that was the house where I made like
Speaker 1: everybody's president. That was the house where I would watch
Speaker 1: the people walk across the block and go to the
Speaker 1: train stage, and if they wouldn't stop dancing, if they
Speaker 1: wouldn't stop and start dancing, I would scrap the beat?
Speaker 1: What right? So I knew I was blasting out, nobody
Speaker 1: would stop and go oh oh oh, I'll probably scrap
Speaker 1: the beat and start something else until I see somebody
Speaker 1: do that. And those are the most of the beasts
Speaker 1: that I kept.
Speaker 6: That's dope research. That's like we should go back.
Speaker 2: It's like your very gordy sandwich to yeah, yeah, dolloaded sandwich.
Speaker 1: Where do you make the transition from? Because I guess
Speaker 1: the first time that I heard of you that a
Speaker 1: Leams record was really really big in Philadelphia and that
Speaker 1: was le Roy Burgess, right, yes, it definitely wasn't the Aleens.
Speaker 1: What's funny? What's funny about? That's like that's where I
Speaker 1: was headed before. Kind of well, okay, explain explain to
Speaker 1: me the edit culture because I know that between like
Speaker 1: eighty two and eighty four it was like the Latin rascals. Uh,
Speaker 1: I mean, who else were was in that world where
Speaker 1: they used those like the art noise hard drums and
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like like jelly Bean was
Speaker 1: in that. So you were about to go that route first.
Speaker 1: I was there because you know, you got to think,
Speaker 1: like you know, the great Daryl Payne also lived on
Speaker 1: my block in Queensbridge too, so he wrote a lot
Speaker 1: of records like thanks to you. You know, yes, I
Speaker 1: can't even sit there and mention records, but he lived
Speaker 1: on the block. So Andre Booth was there. It was
Speaker 1: like it was so musical in Queensbridge. These guys had
Speaker 1: records before me on the radio. You know. Andre Booth
Speaker 1: made this beat his mind, rock shock and all of that.
Speaker 1: All these dudes lived in my hood. And I'm looking
Speaker 1: at these guys like, wow, these are gods. Their music
Speaker 1: is on the radio. I'm not even a DJ yet.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to hang around these guys, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and you know, and and and and figure
Speaker 1: out what they're doing in the studio. And Andre gave
Speaker 1: me a shot to hang out, and he introduced me
Speaker 1: to Arthur Baker. And that's how I started, you know,
Speaker 1: that's how I started. Matter of fact, the first session
Speaker 1: I ever went to with him was Jazzy's Insation. So
Speaker 1: you were an apprentice of Arthur Baker. Yes, yea. Baker
Speaker 1: was dog the things you learned, So Arthur Baker is
Speaker 1: I mean pretty much uh, you know, planning from planning breakers,
Speaker 1: revenge on the beat Street and I believe did he
Speaker 1: not have a handing candy girls? Of course? Of course. Addition,
Speaker 1: that's why Dimple's d record was on street Wise Party
Speaker 1: Okay my first record, boy, I thought it was Sucker
Speaker 1: DJ's Yeah, Sucker DJ's DJs that was on Party Time,
Speaker 1: the Party Time. It was on Party Time label. That
Speaker 1: was because I remember it's yours being on the Party
Speaker 1: Time def jam right. So who owned Party Time? That
Speaker 1: was Arthur Baker, I believe, and I think later on
Speaker 1: they broke off and went to with Russell with that.
Speaker 1: I do believe. You mean to tell me that Rick
Speaker 1: Rubin and Arthur ber Baker could have been a combo
Speaker 1: and it fell apart, and then I don't know the
Speaker 1: things you learn, yeahs to investigate. Yeah, so it could
Speaker 1: have been something by that point, like what how legendary
Speaker 1: was Arthur Baker's status? To be honest, when he first
Speaker 1: heard My Dimples the demo, he was working in a
Speaker 1: warehouse in a story of Queen's Okay, we want to
Speaker 1: go see him at a warehouse at lunchtime. So it
Speaker 1: was nothing popping from yet, not even Planet Rock or
Speaker 1: it was starting the label because we had Party Time
Speaker 1: and that was the beginning of the label. That was
Speaker 1: like one of the first two records off the label.
Speaker 1: So when he first started dropping Hiss dropping his joints,
Speaker 1: he heard my demo at lunch break in the story
Speaker 1: at a warehouse next for a story of projects. So
Speaker 1: he's working what equipment now around? I guess it's eighty three,
Speaker 1: eighty two, eighty three or what equipment are you using this?
Speaker 1: At this time, I had a four tracker set in
Speaker 1: my house, a task scan that barret from my dude, Paul.
Speaker 1: It wasn't even mine, okay, so you were just and
Speaker 1: I made mally scratch off that one. But I'm saying, like,
Speaker 1: what what drum machine? What drum I had? Mally scratch?
Speaker 1: I made it off of my eight oh eight triggered
Speaker 1: by my Corg SD. It was a sample of our
Speaker 1: delay for one second sampler our delay, and it had
Speaker 1: but the important part on it, it had trigger inputs
Speaker 1: on the back, so that enabled me to trigger off
Speaker 1: my eight or eight to whatever sound I had in there.
Speaker 1: So that's how I was able to make my beats.
Speaker 1: So this is leading me to science. It's science. This
Speaker 1: is leading me to believe that you actually read the
Speaker 1: manual instructions on your drum machines, because with most people
Speaker 1: I know, they were just like I taught myself for
Speaker 1: blah blah blah taught me. I learned triggering, triggering, I
Speaker 1: call it triggerology from working at Unique Recording, because you know,
Speaker 1: if I was working there with authoring them, believe me,
Speaker 1: all every record that was ever made and that eraror
Speaker 1: was made at Unique, So was he working on there
Speaker 1: was there was already into triggering, Like there was already
Speaker 1: into triggering drum sounds on all they dance stuff. Wow, already?
Speaker 1: So can you explain how that? Because it sounded so
Speaker 1: it sounds so futuristic, I mean, especially in eighty three
Speaker 1: eighty four. I mean this is pretty much the club
Speaker 1: breakdance soundtrack of that period, right, but this is not
Speaker 1: made with musicians. I mean, first of all, were you
Speaker 1: just accepting the fact that there has to be a
Speaker 1: new way to make music and make dance music and
Speaker 1: all this technology I have to learn? Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: especially at that studio, Like yeah, I was. I was very, very,
Speaker 1: very fortunate because the guy Bobby Nathan that own Unique,
Speaker 1: he was like a tech head or anything that came out,
Speaker 1: he would want to be the first studio in New
Speaker 1: York to have it. Come make your shit over here,
Speaker 1: because we got the Cinclavia. They had the Sintclavia before
Speaker 1: anybody had it. They had the Cinclavia, they had the Emulator.
Speaker 1: Feel like they had that. They had everything before everybody.
Speaker 1: They had the emulator, they had everything. That's how I
Speaker 1: was playing the Emulator and Release Yourself. They didn't even
Speaker 1: have a twelve hundred out yet. Let me, I do
Speaker 1: want to play that version? What makes it? Because you're
Speaker 1: not you didn't produce the actual Leroy Burgess deuced right,
Speaker 1: them and them and the Aleans brothers, the Twin brothers.
Speaker 1: What's so weird about this is that Women's got the
Speaker 1: Philadelphia like this is on side too. It's like the
Speaker 1: Dove version, right, but somehow that became the only verson
Speaker 1: to play. I've never even heard the actual proper the
Speaker 1: radio edit, like, so yeah, okay, this this definitely ruled
Speaker 1: my summer in in Philadelphia during all the eighties. Uh
Speaker 1: is Release Yourself the remix by the what they were
Speaker 1: called the Fantastic Yeah, the Fantastic Alleens. You gotta put
Speaker 1: that sus Love Supreme only on FANDU. So that was
Speaker 1: release Yourself. One of the was this your first remix?
Speaker 1: Or that was that was actually one of my first
Speaker 1: remixes that I've done. That was one of the hottest ones.
Speaker 1: And that's where I was going musically, That's where I
Speaker 1: was going. I was not even thinking about hip hop. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I read in your interview with NPR a couple years
Speaker 1: ago you were saying that you were kind of hit
Speaker 1: it more towards the electronics side of things. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, I grew up with for Giorgio Moroder. Bro
Speaker 1: Georgio Moroda made me a producer. You made me want
Speaker 1: to get into technology because they was doing things way
Speaker 1: before everybody in Germany. You gotta hear they was triggering
Speaker 1: in the sixties. Come on, sorry, I'm looking at these
Speaker 1: guys like yo, they way ahead everybody over here. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to be like them. How did they make I
Speaker 1: feel love? Sound like that? It bugged me out. So
Speaker 1: by that point, your goal was to elevate club music,
Speaker 1: and like, what was your feelings of hip hop at
Speaker 1: the time you were looking at hip hop. I didn't
Speaker 1: even say I didn't like hip hop. I was, wait,
Speaker 1: what I did not expect I liked hip hop tapes.
Speaker 1: I love the hip hop tapes, but I didn't like
Speaker 1: hip hop records. I didn't really like hip hop records.
Speaker 1: I was like, so when you hear when you heard
Speaker 1: love rap, you weren't like, I gotta grab for these
Speaker 1: love Wrap that was later on. Love Wrap was a
Speaker 1: little bit well no, No, I just meant like there
Speaker 1: was some note that was that was moment that was
Speaker 1: kind of like later on. But the early joints, like
Speaker 1: the King Tins come on. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Even even even as a DJ, you didn't think like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this will keep the party going, this is what the
Speaker 1: kids want. Nah. That is shocking God of hip hop,
Speaker 1: because I have to spend time, right, you have to
Speaker 1: think about the time records that That's why I had
Speaker 1: to That's why I come change things. But hear me out.
Speaker 1: You gotta hear me out. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Cause first I was like, yo, I don't I don't really,
Speaker 1: I don't like where it's going. Because when I first
Speaker 1: heard rap, it was off of a tape. It was scratching,
Speaker 1: it was echoes, it was breakbeats. It was like an
Speaker 1: occasional gunshot from from a a fight at the you know,
Speaker 1: because the tapes you see sometimes and with a shootout.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, everybody scuffling and running and it stand to
Speaker 1: the tape, Oh it was a shootout. Oh the party
Speaker 1: was but anyway, but you know, so once it got
Speaker 1: on Wax, you felt it got too horigonized, and I
Speaker 1: felt that it didn't sound like what I fell in
Speaker 1: love with. It wasn't. It wasn't James Brown. You get
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, because I see the tapes I was getting,
Speaker 1: come on you you throwing on funky drummer and they
Speaker 1: rhyming with the echoes over that. Now you want to
Speaker 1: give me a band playing good times And I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to be impressed after I was been cutting up good
Speaker 1: Times and seeing the crowd react to how they reacted
Speaker 1: to the real stuff and the real deep and a
Speaker 1: realm on it. So when the records came out, I
Speaker 1: was like, no, it ain't like that. That's weird because
Speaker 1: I mean, having no knowledge of that. I mean I
Speaker 1: would listen to I would listen to something like uh okay,
Speaker 1: take like sugar Hill Groove. I knew about catch Groove
Speaker 1: because I grew up next door to a DJ, so
Speaker 1: I always remembered hearing right and always knows he always
Speaker 1: played the like our rooms were adjacent to each other
Speaker 1: and our households. So I always remember that break. As
Speaker 1: a drummer, I remember that break and didn't put two
Speaker 1: and two together that like, oh, okay, sugar Hill is
Speaker 1: just approximating. It didn't hit me until I was older
Speaker 1: that I got what they were doing, that the technology
Speaker 1: wasn't there to really to really reproduce what that moment was.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that by that point nothing on sugar Hill.
Speaker 1: I was no. I was not impressed because you know,
Speaker 1: even when I have the DJ for Magic, I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I wasn't a hip hop DJ. I was a blender.
Speaker 1: I was playing in the clubs already. I was doing disco.
Speaker 7: So what was the first record that you heard on
Speaker 7: Wax beyond your own that you was like, all right, maybe.
Speaker 1: It could have been around maybe around around Love rap
Speaker 1: because of the beat was so hot. That sounded like
Speaker 1: a breakbeat to me. So that's when it got a
Speaker 1: little better. But the earliest shit I couldn't. I couldn't
Speaker 1: stomach it. I was like, nah, this ain't going nowhere,
Speaker 1: But yo, beat this. She ain't going nowhere, I'm saying
Speaker 1: in my mind. But you know, it kept going and
Speaker 1: then mister Magic started playing it. And I wasn't even
Speaker 1: listening to mister Magic. So was he established? Yeah, before
Speaker 1: you even started ding with him, Yes, he was. He
Speaker 1: was on the radio playing rap music already. I was
Speaker 1: a disco DJ playing at Pegasus. He was on the
Speaker 1: radio playing rat Okay. At what point was he on
Speaker 1: the radio? He went to WHBI I had to be
Speaker 1: I had to be like had to be like seventies.
Speaker 1: It was in the seventies or something like, so he
Speaker 1: has long history, has seventy eight seventy nine is maybe
Speaker 1: early eighties something like that. He started going on the radio.
Speaker 1: But at that point I wasn't even into the I
Speaker 1: wasn't even I was one of the believe that wasn't
Speaker 1: going nowhere until it started getting a little better. When
Speaker 1: did it get better? To you? Sucker mcs ah tell
Speaker 1: me about Larry Like right, Sucker mcs gave me hope.
Speaker 1: It gave me so much hope. I made Sucker DJs
Speaker 1: my first record. That's a mighty statement. Uh, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, I want, I want, I want to
Speaker 1: run Socker. DJ's real. So Dimple's D from your what
Speaker 1: building when she in? She's from twelve Street and Queens Bridge.
Speaker 1: She lived in that same Royd buildings, burn Off, Foul
Speaker 1: and Havoc, and I lived in Okay. So this is
Speaker 1: your official first production, my official first the response to
Speaker 1: soccers from run DMC. I was m the night I
Speaker 1: was good, so the film was right.
Speaker 6: I came to the party for a different kind of
Speaker 6: actions and next thing I know, I was doing with
Speaker 6: Michael Jason out.
Speaker 1: This is Quest Love Supreme on Pandora. You just heard
Speaker 1: Sucker DJ's by Dimple's D and today's guest legendary DJ
Speaker 1: and hip hop producer Marley mal This is on a
Speaker 1: lyndrum Lynn Drum. I even THOUGHTS and I went to Unique,
Speaker 1: I rented two hours of time. It was thirty five
Speaker 1: dollars an hour. You had to rent it, Yes, I
Speaker 1: had to rent it. You couldn't do it by on
Speaker 1: their back. No, no, no, I wasn't even working there, y'all.
Speaker 1: I just lived in the neighborhood. The studios up the street.
Speaker 1: I heard they had a Lynn drum in there, and
Speaker 1: I and I got it was thirty five hours an hour.
Speaker 1: I got two hours of time. I went there and
Speaker 1: tapped out a few beats and recorded them on my
Speaker 1: four track, and I took the four track home and
Speaker 1: she did her vocals in my living room.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So the setup in your house, I believe the Rock
Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame has a matching. Have you
Speaker 1: seen it? It's like a mock setup of what your
Speaker 1: studio would look like, at least at the when I
Speaker 1: was visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer. This
Speaker 1: is like back in two thousand and four, two thousand
Speaker 1: and five, What is your home system looking like? At
Speaker 1: this point, I had like a little four track, a
Speaker 1: sunboard and that was it. So what were your neighbors
Speaker 1: thinking at this moment? They probably was thinking, well, I
Speaker 1: wish he would turn that shit down sometimes and take
Speaker 1: to speak out the damn window. So at that time
Speaker 1: in the eighties, did you feel secure with like your
Speaker 1: livelihood inside that building or was it just that you
Speaker 1: never left it for anything to happen. No, I just
Speaker 1: never left it for anything that happened. Plus, I was
Speaker 1: the neighborhood DJ that you know, people was getting famous,
Speaker 1: and people would sit outside my building just to see
Speaker 1: who's coming to my house. So it was all good
Speaker 1: at that point. Okay, I want to ask about your
Speaker 1: pop art period. Yeah, because I instally thought you were
Speaker 1: a Philly guy. Right, I'm from Philadelphia, you know I
Speaker 1: got I got a shout Philly out. How did you
Speaker 1: meet the Goodmans? Dude? Philly put me on? Really in
Speaker 1: hip hop, man, I gotta say it because if it
Speaker 1: wasn't for Lawrence and then with Rox Sans Revenge, Rox
Speaker 1: Sans Revenge was pinnacle for me. Okay, that was like
Speaker 1: a pinnacle point in my career when I got tooken
Speaker 1: serious after that. Before that, I was, you know, dj
Speaker 1: on doing this some round doing, you know, trying to
Speaker 1: put out these other records and these something no examples.
Speaker 1: It blew up and Philly put me on, put us on,
Speaker 1: just to let our listeners know. So around nineteen eighty four,
Speaker 1: a group of Brooklyn producers Full Force right right, put
Speaker 1: together a record called Roxanne Roxanne That's right TFO. One
Speaker 1: of the actually, am I incorrect for saying that that
Speaker 1: might be the first time that an actual break beat
Speaker 1: was used or modern hip hop because big beat, that's right,
Speaker 1: break orange educated rapper, second verse. So I don't know
Speaker 1: what it was about this record, but I mean it's
Speaker 1: the typical storyline of three guys trying to kick it
Speaker 1: to a female and they all get rejected and somehow.
Speaker 1: I mean, this was one of the first viral moments.
Speaker 1: I mean, if it's social media were invented, this would
Speaker 1: be the trending number one trending topic because as a result,
Speaker 1: so many response records came out for Roxane Roxanne, and
Speaker 1: we didn't even meant I didn't even mean for it
Speaker 1: to be a record. Once again, this was another Marly
Speaker 1: Mall exclusive. I want to have a special record for
Speaker 1: me being a DJ, and someone heard it and made
Speaker 1: a record out of it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: I wanted to dub plate special with a female talking
Speaker 1: about I'm rock sand and I played it on Mister
Speaker 1: Magic Show and it was it was fire. It was
Speaker 1: like I played a few days before Christmas. By Christmas Eve,
Speaker 1: it was number one on Billboard. How did you rox
Speaker 1: Sante Chante. She lived on my block in Queensbridge, and
Speaker 1: she know she used to always see her and the
Speaker 1: siphers on the block. You know, she used to always
Speaker 1: be insiph as her a dude named Infinite and empty Shan.
Speaker 1: There was like battling everybody on twelve Street, and I
Speaker 1: used to always see them. And you know, one day
Speaker 1: she she was doing her laundry. You know, she said, Yo,
Speaker 1: knocked on my door.
Speaker 7: Yo.
Speaker 1: You know you like that rock Sanding record. I said, Yo,
Speaker 1: She's like, Yo, I got something for that. I'm thinking
Speaker 1: that myself. Well, I have a special dub play. Oh,
Speaker 1: come do that. So she came. We dub playd it
Speaker 1: up and one take she ran back down was doing
Speaker 1: her laundry. She did it between the laundry break. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: the space brother seriously near one take, yeah, one take,
Speaker 1: one take. We had had one cassette playing the instrument,
Speaker 1: do another cassette recording, and she got on the mic,
Speaker 1: did her thing on one take, ran back downstairs, and
Speaker 1: the next week she was a star. Are there two
Speaker 1: versions of the Yes we have to we do it? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard the original twelve is I
Speaker 1: heard with the she asked you one that the as Yo,
Speaker 1: let me explain, It wasn't as exciting. But then I
Speaker 1: heard a version when she's like really screaming and explain
Speaker 1: the first version that came out, they took the version
Speaker 1: that we played on the radio and pressed that one
Speaker 1: up and that was the first batch of records that
Speaker 1: went out. The version I played off the radio. I
Speaker 1: didn't give him the master. We gave him a copy
Speaker 1: of us playing it on the radio. Oh my good
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. That's why he said that, because he
Speaker 1: said that on the radio. Oh my goodness. I thought
Speaker 1: that was part of the record. Oh No, that was
Speaker 1: that was. That was him live on the radio saying,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness after he played it. We gotta play this, yo.
Speaker 1: This is Roxanne's revenge on court only on Pandora with
Speaker 1: the great Molly Man will be right back.
Speaker 6: My name is don't know. I just a cold rock
Speaker 6: up bunny, and I said, I'm at you, you guys,
Speaker 6: and you know it's to let me tell.
Speaker 4: You and explained them.
Speaker 1: All right, this quest some supreme. We're here talking to
Speaker 1: hip hop producer Marley Mare about his days as a
Speaker 1: legend in the making so and also a hook singer
Speaker 1: singing days. So were you a part of the other
Speaker 1: Roxannes that came out? Because I saw Roxanne doctor and
Speaker 1: well there was the real Rocks, the real Rocks and
Speaker 1: rock real Rock. San was the Puerto Rican girl with
Speaker 1: the blond here the forces.
Speaker 7: Okay, doctor Roxane, that's the original.
Speaker 1: Right, he was the first one. There, you go. She
Speaker 1: was the first one. So at any point was there
Speaker 1: I mean, in our heads we're just thinking like, oh man,
Speaker 1: bloodshed calfight's going to happen. But at any point did
Speaker 1: you ever kick it with full force or the thought
Speaker 1: of the idea of you know, doing something together or whatever. No,
Speaker 1: I think that went right out the window as soon
Speaker 1: as they came with, you know, they tried to do
Speaker 1: a real rock saying yeah, but she was she was
Speaker 1: She was dope. Yes, she didn't have to fire off Chante,
Speaker 1: but she was really dope, and you know, and you
Speaker 1: know after that, I mean, Chante was the last one
Speaker 1: standing at the end of the day. Chante was really
Speaker 1: the first one that did it. She was on all
Speaker 1: the tours, she got on Fresh Fest with all that,
Speaker 1: you get what I'm saying. She she she had us
Speaker 1: on private planes real quick, really, and I didn't even
Speaker 1: have a call yet. So at this rate you're saying
Speaker 1: that this was catching on national. Yeah. Yeah, we had
Speaker 1: sometime three shows in one day, and we had a
Speaker 1: private plane so we could be here, go there, and
Speaker 1: then go to the next show, and just you know,
Speaker 1: it was just that away from like what were the
Speaker 1: gigs like? Was it just try State northeat. We would
Speaker 1: go you know, we would go to we went to Cincinnati,
Speaker 1: then we would go to what's that Pennsylvania? Okay, then
Speaker 1: we'll go to you know, maybe Ohio or something like that.
Speaker 1: We would do it like that and just hit the
Speaker 1: one song and one and done and two songs and
Speaker 1: be out, you know, one song and I played eight
Speaker 1: o eight when he just doing the freestyle and then
Speaker 1: we'd be out. Really, now you pick somebody out of
Speaker 1: the crowded this and get the crowd aped up. She
Speaker 1: was on a Millie Jackson who taught him like, so
Speaker 1: are you are you who's teaching the the entertainment aspect
Speaker 1: of your juice crews? How tell you something? Mister Magic
Speaker 1: was very If you think he was rude on the
Speaker 1: radio to other artists, you couldn't imagine how he would
Speaker 1: be to us as artists, like, you ain't wearing that
Speaker 1: ship on stage with us. You're not going out like that,
Speaker 1: Oh motherfucker, you ain't ready. He told Cae many times, Yo,
Speaker 1: you ain't going out on stage with your hair like that,
Speaker 1: and and then that's when Kine got started getting the
Speaker 1: hot top fade before you had a big old afro.
Speaker 1: What yeah, the seventies iry some damn that's the Magic
Speaker 1: would have hated me. I know, mister Magic saying he's like,
Speaker 1: you can't go on stage like that represent with us.
Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, King came back with the
Speaker 1: hot top fake. There you go. But it worked because
Speaker 1: he's kind of marketing them looking like, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're gonna be the ladies man, you can't be the
Speaker 1: ladies man like that. So oh, there you go. Now
Speaker 1: that's the look that we're looking for, and they went
Speaker 1: with it. And and that's why came was the sex
Speaker 1: symbol out of us. I guess we should we shouldn't
Speaker 1: note that. Uh, what's notable about Marley's presence in hip hop.
Speaker 1: It's the fact that you know you represent will represent
Speaker 1: a wave of one of the first families in hip hop.
Speaker 1: There you as opposed to just you know, individual acts
Speaker 1: coming out at the time. And we're speaking of the Jews.
Speaker 1: So did you and mister Magic have this grand scheme
Speaker 1: like we're gonna develop acts and then I'll play them
Speaker 1: on our radio show and you'll spin it on the
Speaker 1: radio show, and you know it was you know what
Speaker 1: it was. We're in such a battle man, you got
Speaker 1: to think it was battle mode. A lot of songs
Speaker 1: we made was ammunition to fight Red and Chuck on
Speaker 1: Kiss FM. Explain all right, explain the initial rivalry between
Speaker 1: Red and all right, this is how it all started.
Speaker 1: Mister Magic was on the radio and BLS for about
Speaker 1: a year. Then then Kiss FM decided, Hey, they went
Speaker 1: in over there with that rep. Let's get it. Let's
Speaker 1: get a wrap show too. They got they got Jazzy
Speaker 1: J first. Matter of fact, I think it was it
Speaker 1: got Jazzy J. First. He did it for a minute.
Speaker 1: He didn't like it. He passed it on the Red.
Speaker 1: Then Red and Chuck started splitting it. And then after
Speaker 1: a while, okay, now we was doing it for a
Speaker 1: year and then they started coming up. So that second summer, oh,
Speaker 1: it was brutal in the city. Now it's two stations
Speaker 1: playing rap on the weekends. Now, all right, this is
Speaker 1: before the summer. Actually when school was in this was
Speaker 1: this was just before that summer when everybody went to
Speaker 1: school with a new regular tape or Mister Magic tape.
Speaker 1: Every Monday back in school. You heard what they played,
Speaker 1: hen it is, So we started, we started blowing up.
Speaker 1: Then those tapes would go around the world. Those tapes
Speaker 1: would travel to Philly. You get what I'm saying, y'all
Speaker 1: would get those tapes down south. I know people down
Speaker 1: south and Atlanta was slinging tapes. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So those tapes were moving around. So it started a
Speaker 1: big radio rivalry, Kiss FM against w b l S.
Speaker 1: And now now all of a sudden, now I need
Speaker 1: AMMO because mister Magic was the type of person, you know,
Speaker 1: God rest his soul. He was good at heart, but
Speaker 1: he would get on the air and this this is
Speaker 1: an artist. So that means that artists would be mad
Speaker 1: at him out of ass on millions? Was he really
Speaker 1: talking about them? Yo? One day I played the public
Speaker 1: and in the middle of the record, he yo, Mally
Speaker 1: Mary turned that off? He could cut his Michael, turn
Speaker 1: that off. I turned it off, your man, no more
Speaker 1: music from the Sockers quick. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: just start I'm looking at him, like, Yo, what did
Speaker 1: you just say? Man? Yo? Because I'm the DJ with you,
Speaker 1: I don't want to like we want to air together,
Speaker 1: Like what did you just say no more music from
Speaker 1: the sucker? So it went by. Then a few weeks
Speaker 1: later PubL Agatay put that on the on their record.
Speaker 1: When somebody took the recording of him saying it on
Speaker 1: the show and put it on the record, he is
Speaker 1: speaking of the beginning of pol amborum flavor, which is
Speaker 1: I guarantee you no more music by a sucker, No
Speaker 1: more music by a sucker, No more music by the suckers.
Speaker 6: Yo.
Speaker 1: Man, So how did how does Biz enter? And how
Speaker 1: do you see Biz more than just a sidekick as
Speaker 1: a start? Like, how do you how did you first
Speaker 1: meet him? Well? Crazy, I was walking down the street
Speaker 1: and I was like, Yo, there's a be box in
Speaker 1: the building. And I'm like, come on, man, for real,
Speaker 1: beat box schmek box. You thought it was a fat Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like come on. I'm like, I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: Doggie Fresh is out, Buffy Buffy's out. Ain't nobody touching
Speaker 1: them dudes? You get what I'm saying. Like it's gonna
Speaker 1: be hard. I said, I don't even want a hair dude.
Speaker 1: But He's like, you know, but you got to check
Speaker 1: him out, mam. Yo. He's phenomenal. He's something special. So
Speaker 1: I go back to the building. He's doing a beat
Speaker 1: box in the building. All of a sudden, when he
Speaker 1: went right, bro, come to my house to mom. Bro,
Speaker 1: you dope kid. That was like he blew me away.
Speaker 1: He started, I want to, I want to. My name
Speaker 1: is bis Mark. I was like, yo, if you're crazy
Speaker 1: enough to chop your neck in front of me. So
Speaker 1: at that point, did you feel like did you feel like, okay,
Speaker 1: I could make anyone a star? Like did you figure
Speaker 1: out like you knew what the formula was to make
Speaker 1: the streets feel With Biz? It was kind of like
Speaker 1: an experiment. I knew that he could have been a
Speaker 1: good attraction to what we was doing. I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: he's real entertaining. That was dope. You know, maybe he
Speaker 1: could he could rock with us. And you know, once
Speaker 1: he got to me, Chante, Shanta and him got very
Speaker 1: close and he started opening up for Shante. And once
Speaker 1: I seen the reaction of the crowd when he started
Speaker 1: opening with Chante, I was like, Wow, he's extra special.
Speaker 6: What was Biz doing? When you like, how old was
Speaker 6: he when you met him?
Speaker 1: He was he had to be like it looked like
Speaker 1: he was about eighteen or nineteen or something like that.
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, just like a young skinny kid
Speaker 1: coming to the hood. Yo. He stayed for the whole weekend.
Speaker 1: Finally saw me Sunday. Everybody's like, yo, he was out
Speaker 1: here all weekend.
Speaker 3: Yo.
Speaker 1: He was out here. A funny dude. He was out here.
Speaker 1: We just sat on the park bench wait, brung out
Speaker 1: the whole weekend in Queen's Bridge. He just hung out
Speaker 1: with everybody. So that was just the thing. Do I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go to Queens Ridge project? Yeah? But that's why
Speaker 1: I had to move because you know, a few females
Speaker 1: would do that too and they would get violated. So
Speaker 1: I was like, let me move at it because I
Speaker 1: want to be responsible. R oh, I know, I thank
Speaker 1: you to him. Come on, man, that was happening too much.
Speaker 1: So I was like, you know, let me. I got
Speaker 1: to get up out of here. Okay, So are you
Speaker 1: still going to proper studios to do the pre production
Speaker 1: and coming into your crib to know it's right in
Speaker 1: the living room in Queen's Bridge with a task him
Speaker 1: with the assume at this point the SB twelve, the
Speaker 1: infamous reel the Real or You're the real? Yeah, like
Speaker 1: how many outlets did you have to like it? Because
Speaker 1: I was electricity go out? Nah, NOA it was. It
Speaker 1: was pretty cool. I mean it sounds like a lot.
Speaker 1: I had a shabby, shitty little studio and made all
Speaker 1: those records. It sounds like yo. When you hear the records,
Speaker 1: they sound so big and elaborate. But dude, I was
Speaker 1: sitting there on a on like a shitty est quick
Speaker 1: you say, nobody beat some business was just just that
Speaker 1: was some some mcguira miracle like that wasn't It wasn't
Speaker 1: a miracle. But the way I would make records, I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, I'm triggering from an eight a eight, the
Speaker 1: post from the eight away is triggering. Each sample is separately.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a twelve hundred yet. This is before
Speaker 1: twelve hundreds. They didn't even have twelve hundred. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sampling drums before they even made twelve hundreds to do that.
Speaker 1: So I got I got three samplers here with trigger
Speaker 1: inputs on the back the times, the low times, in
Speaker 1: the high times, just triggering my drum sounds. And I'm
Speaker 1: using a regular eight a weight from the eighth eight
Speaker 1: and a regular high from the hot eight O eight,
Speaker 1: but those are my drum sounds. Those three samplers was triggering,
Speaker 1: So it was kind of like mcgiverish because yeah, they
Speaker 1: didn't have that technology, right, I kind of like me,
Speaker 1: I thought of it. So you and Grandmaster Flash, Grandmaster Flash, like,
Speaker 1: I want to, you know, invent a system that lets
Speaker 1: me hear the music before I'm DJing it, and you
Speaker 1: are I want to. I want to You're inventing triggering
Speaker 1: without the idea of triggering, right, I'm inventing twelve hundreds
Speaker 1: and the whole the whole software program or how they're
Speaker 1: doing it, probably before it was even made, because nobody
Speaker 1: the twelve the twelve s P twelve came out after that.
Speaker 1: I thought you did that on a twelve No, no, okay,
Speaker 1: So what was your Ben Franklin Eureka moment? Because I
Speaker 1: think our listeners should know that more than any producer,
Speaker 1: you're the one that figured it out a way to
Speaker 1: take what's on a record and put it through technology
Speaker 1: so that we could wrap over that instead without you know,
Speaker 1: without DJ going back and forth of all the stuff.
Speaker 1: So like, what was your what was your Eureka moment? Like, wait,
Speaker 1: I can do that one day. We was working at Unique,
Speaker 1: and I was like trying to sample something else, and
Speaker 1: I think the snare went through by mistake, and I
Speaker 1: was like rocking the snare with the beat, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: that shit sound hot right there. Turn the other one down.
Speaker 1: Turn that shit, turn original down, turn out, turn that
Speaker 1: line drum down. I'm playing playing what I was doing
Speaker 1: with the with the beat. It sounded so much better.
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, could we put this on track?
Speaker 1: And I put it on track and I sat there.
Speaker 1: I was like, hold up, this means I could take
Speaker 1: any record I have at home, any kick snare, make
Speaker 1: my own pattern with their kicking sneer. I think I
Speaker 1: never interned anymore after that day. I think that was
Speaker 1: my last day of internship. I think I never returned.
Speaker 1: I returned as mally Mal later to do mixes and
Speaker 1: be famous, but I was never intern no more after that. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you run home with the equipment, or you run
Speaker 1: into your own equipment.
Speaker 3: I went home.
Speaker 1: I went around the corner to sam Ash and brought
Speaker 1: little two little samplers. Like I'm thinking back then, this
Speaker 1: is super expensive and hard to acquire. No, they had
Speaker 1: little samplers for guitar players. Back in the day. You
Speaker 1: know how they got there. You could play along with
Speaker 1: it and play right, right, something they plays a little thing,
Speaker 1: they play along with it, right, That's what it was.
Speaker 1: Back then. I had a sampler like that. First, I
Speaker 1: had a trigger on it, and I figured I could
Speaker 1: put sound from the record in there and trigger it.
Speaker 1: I ever wanted to know, okay, okay, And so these
Speaker 1: records you were recording, still at your crib, still at
Speaker 1: the crib. My matter fact, my first real sampler was
Speaker 1: that was a little box that was this for guitar
Speaker 1: player that then you know they have the loops on it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the thing that you do, the little cork box little thing.
Speaker 1: That was my first sampler. But I bought one with
Speaker 1: a trigger on it because I already was working at
Speaker 1: Unique and I used to see, oh, trigger, everybody's trigger happy.
Speaker 1: The post is popping everything off in here. Hold, if
Speaker 1: I could get a sample that pulls to pop off too,
Speaker 1: I could put what I want in there and it's
Speaker 1: gonna do what I wanted to do. What was your
Speaker 1: first thing that you broke that you were like, oh god,
Speaker 1: I've discovered a new way of let me see, and
Speaker 1: was it Nobody Beats the Biz, or it could have
Speaker 1: been nobody beats the Biz that they could have been
Speaker 1: that and and make the music. It was aund make
Speaker 1: the music time around me, because I remember I used
Speaker 1: to like that Isaac Case piano and when when I
Speaker 1: messed around and remembered, how you know in hip hop
Speaker 1: they used to play it in forty five to make
Speaker 1: it have that certain tone, and I was like, if
Speaker 1: I could make that certain tone with my own beat,
Speaker 1: it would be phenomenal. And then once I made that,
Speaker 1: I kind of knew I was here. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: that right there, because I was able to take my
Speaker 1: own kicking, my own snare, go in the mic and
Speaker 1: go and make my own high hat. Wa wait wait
Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait wait wait wait what what you
Speaker 1: just saying? Say that one more time? I was able
Speaker 1: to go to the sample and go in it and
Speaker 1: be able to play it back like a shaker ghetto.
Speaker 1: Come on, I have none myself. I've always wondered what
Speaker 1: that was, because the thing that's so Doba about it
Speaker 1: is that when we would do that beat, like in
Speaker 1: the lunch room, that's how we were all do it
Speaker 1: the same way.
Speaker 2: With my mouth.
Speaker 1: There you go. That's real quick.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, wow, wow, yo, I want you, I
Speaker 4: want to.
Speaker 1: That's not a want to. It isn't that I know
Speaker 1: what it is. It Wow, now that you hear it,
Speaker 1: now that you know, it's not like it wasn't the
Speaker 1: Dougie Fresh Shaker. Yeah, yeah, because that's exactly what it was.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask because I know when for
Speaker 1: the show with Teddy Riley, like, what was that a
Speaker 1: DMX DMX because I have a DMX and it doesn't
Speaker 1: sound that wow, It's just like and I would try
Speaker 1: to tune it down. It doesn't sound that way off
Speaker 1: an email on Yeah, but I figured after that record
Speaker 1: right there, I had it, and and to be honest,
Speaker 1: I kept my drum sounds in my samplers for about
Speaker 1: a week. I made about a week's worth of beats
Speaker 1: before it was. Yeah, but the Bridge was one of them.
Speaker 1: Stunt of the Block was on Eric Beats, President Drums
Speaker 1: was one of them. So at that point I was like,
Speaker 1: I kept those drums sounds in. Was there a way
Speaker 1: to save it? I was saying, cards right now, I
Speaker 1: had it on real, So I had on real. That's
Speaker 1: where the infamous reel. Okay, infamous reel was my hard job.
Speaker 1: We got to talk about him, Piece to President. We
Speaker 1: got to talk about him, Piece the President. I know
Speaker 1: Munch has been said about like the importance of funky
Speaker 1: drummers placing the panfe President is the greatest break meet up.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do feel that in Peace to President
Speaker 1: is probably the common man's break beat first of all
Speaker 1: ultimate beats and breaks wasn't out yet, right, So thus,
Speaker 1: how did you run across? And was it just like
Speaker 1: a source record that you were like, this will do well?
Speaker 1: I got it. I got my version, my forty five. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw Aaron Fuchs. Wow. Now see, I gotta be
Speaker 1: careful because he's bunked a few shots at me. I
Speaker 1: know about with him peach. But he gave me it
Speaker 1: because what happened. He gave it to you. Listen. I
Speaker 1: used to this is when I lived in Queen's Bridge
Speaker 1: on Vernon Tough City Records was on Vernon Boulevard, Queens
Speaker 1: in Long Island City, like a few blocks down, okay,
Speaker 1: and you know, and you know, and I was just
Speaker 1: coming up and he's like, look, I want you to
Speaker 1: go in the studio with Spoony g. I can't really
Speaker 1: pay you, but I could give you a handful of
Speaker 1: forty fives. Now you got to think about it. Aaron
Speaker 1: Fuchs was the editor god you did the Godfather. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to tell you. I thought that you
Speaker 1: did that. Yeah, I did The Godfather, right, here's The
Speaker 1: Godfather by Spoony g Y. Yeah. I'm sorry, I'm right
Speaker 1: now and take it off. Of course he did. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So when I was doing those records, he didn't have
Speaker 1: money to pay me. So he would say, hey, since
Speaker 1: he was the editor of Billboard for funking Soul in
Speaker 1: the sixties, so you're ready to know his record collection.
Speaker 1: So he would always say, I got a handful of
Speaker 1: forty fives for your here. And there was so many
Speaker 1: rarities and that shit. Every time I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: let me go make a record for him and get
Speaker 1: his break beats, he breaks. He paid me with no
Speaker 1: forty fives, bro and piece to President happened to be
Speaker 1: one of them. The irony of everything is that he
Speaker 1: was the person that gave me a piece to President
Speaker 1: on a trade like that, and was later to come
Speaker 1: back and sue for using that very break he gave me. Wow, Okay,
Speaker 1: what is yours. Okay. I had a situation where all right,
Speaker 1: I gotta be very careful because some certain people were
Speaker 1: very reggitious with what do you mean by certain people? Exactly?
Speaker 1: That's that's exactly how he approached me to like, what
Speaker 1: do you mean leeches. No. At the time, there was
Speaker 1: a situation with where jay Z and Kanye West otis
Speaker 1: in which we all know that Kanye ends the rhyme
Speaker 1: with Jay is chilling. Bit. Yeah, that's right. He did
Speaker 1: come after him for that, right, And you know from
Speaker 1: what I know is that he approached What's Light in
Speaker 1: Milk's Father's na They were like, yo, he's quoting our song.
Speaker 4: Go get him.
Speaker 1: And they were like, well, no, it's just an homage.
Speaker 1: Like it's not we don't consider it biting. It's just
Speaker 1: an homage. At the end of at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I hear that the amount was somewhere close
Speaker 1: to two million. My thing is that the very thing
Speaker 1: and this probably extends to me and Boss Bill's argument
Speaker 1: about amens versus body On that one, I'm as versus biting,
Speaker 1: uh stealing somebody style. Well, yeah, it's like for me,
Speaker 1: a person like George Clinton has it where It's like
Speaker 1: he gives you great rates to take his stuff and
Speaker 1: then you keep coming back for more. Right, keep the little,
Speaker 1: keep the prices in the streets, and everybody come back.
Speaker 1: The problem the situation with with Aaron Fuchs is that
Speaker 1: he acquired the rights to impeach the president and then
Speaker 1: he just went law suit crazy. Now I noticed that
Speaker 1: all these seven figure lawsuits were always aimed the deaf JAM.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if maybe he has a beef
Speaker 1: with Russell or yeah, because like certain and pre president
Speaker 1: usage got on, you know, he let it slide. But
Speaker 1: with def Jam it was like one million, one million,
Speaker 1: one million, one million budget. Probably, Yeah, what is your feeling?
Speaker 1: I mean, especially in twenty sixteen in which I feel
Speaker 1: as though we need more and beats the president, right
Speaker 1: unless and I'm not I don't want to be that
Speaker 1: guy that's like discouraging the future Marlies of the world
Speaker 1: to not push forward technology.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 1: But if everyone is just trying to cash in on
Speaker 1: laying a trap, I feel like it's laying a trap. Right.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take I'm gonna take the most popular breakbeat
Speaker 1: right and sue you if you use it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give it to the most popular producer. Let him use it,
Speaker 1: get it hot in the streets. Then I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: get the rights to it and sue every motherfucker that use.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: And that's what happened. What is he is he just
Speaker 1: living off of I mean the theme the scrubs Like, no,
Speaker 1: I think that. You know, he looks at it as
Speaker 1: his business. You know, somebody's got to do it, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel his way, that's his way. I'm just to me,
Speaker 1: he's looking at it as business. You know what. It's like,
Speaker 1: that's the story of like music, like paying chess artists
Speaker 1: with cadillacs and now look at it, you know what.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like. It's kind of like when the
Speaker 1: whole bubble bursted with sampling itself. When they found out
Speaker 1: that you could make money off assuing everybody, everybody went
Speaker 1: buck wow. At first, it was like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're just doing it because it sounds hot or whatever whatever.
Speaker 1: We're not even really thinking about it like that. Once
Speaker 1: somebody figured it out that yo, you could get sue
Speaker 1: for that, everybody went buck wow. It became a business,
Speaker 1: and that kind of fucked the music. Everybody started using
Speaker 1: doing keyboards, right.
Speaker 7: Is it fairer if it's going back to the arts.
Speaker 7: Is that the problem is that the people most times
Speaker 7: the Breakbeats or whoever originally owns it, it's not going
Speaker 7: back to that person who really made the music.
Speaker 1: Is that the problem if he were about like making
Speaker 1: sure the honey Drippers were straight, right, Like a good
Speaker 1: example now is the most one of the most popular
Speaker 1: comedy shows on right now today the Workaholics their theme songs, Yeah,
Speaker 1: skinny Boys, human job box. Like none of those guys
Speaker 1: are They're not even aware that there is a subculture
Speaker 1: of comedy now that like when I spend that song now,
Speaker 1: like any millennials losing their minds because they're thinking, I'm
Speaker 1: spending the work the Workaholics team, like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: a real song. And once I did the investigation, like
Speaker 1: none of those guys are, they sold their publishing and
Speaker 1: it's just like it's one guy that's like just getting
Speaker 1: rich off the work of Aholics team.
Speaker 6: So then that's the case.
Speaker 7: So if it was directly the artist, you would feel
Speaker 7: a little differently about it.
Speaker 6: Marvin Gaye was alive, so yeah.
Speaker 1: But I meant, do you feel paranoid because the thing
Speaker 1: is that your drums have single handedly fed and up
Speaker 1: the game of hip hop between eighty five and eighty
Speaker 1: seven and still to this day, Like that is you
Speaker 1: building those drums? Like how do you feel about it?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: I feel? And is he trying to come? Has he
Speaker 1: ever tried to come to you?
Speaker 7: Four?
Speaker 1: Just snares and high hats and nah. That's one thing
Speaker 1: that you can notice when you when you just have
Speaker 1: a kick or a snare from it, he doesn't go
Speaker 1: at you. Kind of I'm just maybe I'm letting some
Speaker 1: out the bag. But I noticed whenever it's he getting you.
Speaker 1: But if it's like god, right, just a straight up snare, right,
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, you can't really prove it the way
Speaker 1: he could prove a loop.
Speaker 2: How did y'all put up settling? I mean without money?
Speaker 1: Whatever? Details? Did y'all end up settling the round the way? Girl?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 1: I paid him. I paid him. It was like a
Speaker 1: settlement and he got like a one time payment and
Speaker 1: kept it moving. I believe it. I believe that's how
Speaker 1: it went all right. So this leads to the infamous
Speaker 1: real and Yes, and you're you're what I call the
Speaker 1: not the manum from heaven, but the two loads of
Speaker 1: fishing five pieces of bread or is it five pieces
Speaker 1: of fishing, two loads of bread, fishing five loves? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so so because you're not saving these sounds on disc.
Speaker 1: No disc was here yet because there wasn't no way
Speaker 1: of saving. There was nothing digital yet. They didn't have
Speaker 1: floppy disc for our samples yet because there was no
Speaker 1: twelve hundred yet. Right. So, what I would do is
Speaker 1: put my drum sounds on a reel, put like one
Speaker 1: kickbar and then leader, the next snaire, co leader, the
Speaker 1: next kick, boom, high hats whatever. I had all my reels,
Speaker 1: all my sounds on one reel, and you know, that's
Speaker 1: how I used to go around. I used to go
Speaker 1: with the artists. We used to sit there with the reel.
Speaker 1: What kick you want to use? Boom? But I like that.
Speaker 1: I like that, and that's how to make it for real. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's has to sit down, sit down with them. He customized,
Speaker 1: like we gotta start doing that.
Speaker 4: I think we do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do that, you play like you like that,
Speaker 1: and you know you play certain things. But I was
Speaker 1: just playing drum sounds for them, not even loops, just
Speaker 1: godd shoo, that's not Oh. I would sit there blow
Speaker 1: those in, make a quick beat, put put a put
Speaker 1: whatever to it, and then let them rhyme. Put the
Speaker 1: put the snare in the high hat on one track,
Speaker 1: put the kick in the baseline on the other track,
Speaker 1: put the rhymes on one track, and sampling on the
Speaker 1: other fourth track, and we got a record.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now with that said, I gotta ask you, when
Speaker 1: you hear this intro, what are you thinking on? For
Speaker 1: years it never dawned on me. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: For some reason, I kind of like blocked that record
Speaker 1: out of my psychic for like years. Probably no, it
Speaker 1: never nothing that they have existed. I probably never listened
Speaker 1: to it. I heard it, but didn't listen to it.
Speaker 1: If you know what I mean, It is possible to
Speaker 1: ignore something and be willfully ignorant. Like there's one particular
Speaker 1: artist in hip hop I can honestly say I've never
Speaker 1: even I mean, this is like a Bonafi. Everybody in
Speaker 1: their mother loves this product. I haven't heard it once
Speaker 1: like I will. So as far as you're concerned, right,
Speaker 1: criminal minded just never existed. No, I'm that record right there.
Speaker 1: We're talking that record South Bronx. Well the bridges over
Speaker 1: when when bridges over came out. I was like, I
Speaker 1: heard it, but I didn't, you know, it didn't. It didn't.
Speaker 1: It didn't. It didn't hit me like that was my
Speaker 1: drum sound. It didn't hit me like that because I
Speaker 1: kind of like, uh, be honest. To be honest, I
Speaker 1: never thought that. Like when Chris first came at us,
Speaker 1: I was like, now, who's stupid enough to I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: who's stupid enough to believe this dude? Who's stupid enough
Speaker 1: to believe that he's saying that we said something we
Speaker 1: didn't say. Who's that dumb to believe this motherfucker? And
Speaker 1: I was like, that's when I realized, Yo, hip hop
Speaker 1: dumb it in the motherfucker. I was like, God, damn,
Speaker 1: who's yo? When he first came, I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: who's gonna believe this dude? We never said that? And
Speaker 1: we the motherfucker Juice Crew because we got Kinge g
Speaker 1: Rap So and so nigga, who gonna believe that ship?
Speaker 1: And we and then everybody. I was like, God, this
Speaker 1: nigga's a good, good con He caught ya niggas, he
Speaker 1: caught a lot of motherfuckers. My assumption was that it
Speaker 1: was something deeper than just him defending behind the Bronx.
Speaker 1: Anybody wasn't from the Bronx, to see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: He wasn't fron the Bee. So where is he from?
Speaker 1: He was from Brooklyn and the Homeless Shelter Christ is
Speaker 1: from and Skylar Rock was from the Bee. You get
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Please explain? And I was like saying
Speaker 1: to mysel yo, who gonna believe this dude? But then
Speaker 1: but then I started really realizing that, you know, I
Speaker 1: started realizing that that common sense wasn't as common as
Speaker 1: I thought. And I was like, so I kind of
Speaker 1: after that, I kind of backed away from hip hop.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, let me just sp but everything
Speaker 1: was already done. I backed the way, looked at it.
Speaker 1: I said, I know what I'm gonna do. We throw
Speaker 1: Let me throw cane on these niggas real quick. Got raw,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. After raw, I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: now I'm back. I felt good again about it, but
Speaker 1: I stepped back after while. So you felt as some
Speaker 1: sort of way between eighty five eighty sixcess, I felt
Speaker 1: I felt real, you know, I felt real crazy. I
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, how the fuck niggas believe this dude,
Speaker 1: And that's real talk. Why what happened? Like, oh, like
Speaker 1: play record, I tell you exactly what happened. He tried
Speaker 1: to get in the Juice crew up the day I
Speaker 1: lost lost my reel up at power Play. He they
Speaker 1: was they saw mister Magic and me in the studio
Speaker 1: with Shante. Please mister Magic, listen to our demo. Please
Speaker 1: please you Marlly Man come in the room and come
Speaker 1: in the room with me. So I, hey, these niggas ship.
Speaker 1: So I was like, all right, I'll walk in the
Speaker 1: room with you. So I'll go in the room with him.
Speaker 1: It's like the Buggy Down Production, all of them. They're
Speaker 1: in the room like, yo, please mister Magic, Oh thank
Speaker 1: you for coming in. Yo. This is a demo and
Speaker 1: they put it on and plat it loud on the
Speaker 1: room like this, jumping around. He goes. He goes off
Speaker 1: to the console and shut that ship down. She was bullshit, man,
Speaker 1: shut that in front of them, yo. He said that
Speaker 1: straight in front of this ship is straight. God, do
Speaker 1: you remember what was it? A song that later came out?
Speaker 1: You remember what it was? I don't know. I probably
Speaker 1: never heard that ship again.
Speaker 4: You know what?
Speaker 1: You know what all right, so peep it. They they
Speaker 1: they had like four or five songs like no no, no, no.
Speaker 2: No, no no.
Speaker 1: Set they played that one song that he turned down
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, turned the volume down in the middle
Speaker 1: of them jumping around the room trying to sell it.
Speaker 1: He was like, Yo, this is God, but you want
Speaker 1: your niggas want real hip hop rock, sane, chante, Molly
Speaker 1: mal mister Magic, juice true and walked out. So that's why.
Speaker 1: And then when he's leaving the studio, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to stay in the studio because he dissed them, so
Speaker 1: I was trying to get out of there with them
Speaker 1: and I left. My real wait, how many who was
Speaker 1: in beat? Like was it Scott Chris? It was? It
Speaker 1: was a lot of It was like a whole room
Speaker 1: full of people. It was like, that's what I'm asking
Speaker 1: It was like it was it was all of them,
Speaker 1: all of them because they were so happy to see
Speaker 1: mister Magic and they were such a fans of mister Magic,
Speaker 1: and he dissed them. So it didn't come off like, Yo,
Speaker 1: we about to fuck him up or like I mean
Speaker 1: he was that was mister magic man. He was arrogant
Speaker 1: and liked that back in the day, So retaliation, the
Speaker 1: retaliation set didn't even get into the minds of hip
Speaker 1: hoppers back then, right right, He's like, yo, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get them back. That was only one way in. I mean,
Speaker 1: couldn't you him? Then where do you go? Right? And
Speaker 1: then what happened too? And see you got to think
Speaker 1: about it. Now, this is even before BDP was down
Speaker 1: with red alert. They gave read the record, Red jumped
Speaker 1: on with them because now he had needed he needed ammunition,
Speaker 1: so he jumped in their crew. You get what I mean,
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying. So now now when I've
Speaker 1: seen the whole wave of the Bronx supporting, I was like,
Speaker 1: we didn't say that, but yo, the wind was already
Speaker 1: blowing on the fire at that point, so it was
Speaker 1: already spread. And like nobody stood back and say, oh,
Speaker 1: them niggas never said that. You're talking about stupid, right,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So it never it never
Speaker 1: got cleared. So I looked at the whole ship for
Speaker 1: years like, damn, well have you heard pre criminal minded
Speaker 1: b DP? All right, I gotta play events like on
Speaker 1: the box set of Criminal Minded there's like they're eighty
Speaker 1: five eighty six stuff, which is like private demos. Yes
Speaker 1: you probably heard this. This is advanced by Boogie Delle Productions.
Speaker 1: Out of this magic was like, come on, man, they
Speaker 1: got upset, but you know, but that gave them that
Speaker 1: fuel right there. But I'm saying, where's that real right now?
Speaker 1: Which one my drum? Real? I got that all day?
Speaker 1: If I don't I walk around with that. If I
Speaker 1: didn't known you want that, I would I would have
Speaker 1: brought that we wanted. I got that out, to be honest,
Speaker 1: I want to bake it right now. See what sounds
Speaker 1: is on that bitch? That's dad ass. I would love
Speaker 1: this because that that that kick in, that snin. You
Speaker 1: gotta know that in peace the president the way it
Speaker 1: sounds like that. And I know if anybody ever uses
Speaker 1: any sample from that real, because you know how certain
Speaker 1: popcorn on your samples that you know at a certain spot.
Speaker 1: I didn't play my peach so much back in the
Speaker 1: day that by the time I sampled it was that
Speaker 1: much static on it. And I had that static on
Speaker 1: top billing. I had that static on everybody's president. I
Speaker 1: had that static on fucking funky Cole Medina. You get
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, there's too many records. I had hit
Speaker 1: that static where you can't tell me you didn't sample
Speaker 1: my ship. See, I was under the impression that. See
Speaker 1: I'm so glad we're having this conversation because in my
Speaker 1: mind I'm thinking that this is where Paul c and said,
Speaker 1: g of Ultra Manetic come into play. Oh, said found
Speaker 1: the real So let's move on. Really, yes, so that
Speaker 1: explains all right. Over because he tapped out the beat
Speaker 1: for the bridges. Over said g Yes, that explains everything. Also,
Speaker 1: of course you gotta tell him what song is it?
Speaker 4: What's this is.
Speaker 1: One of the like this beat?
Speaker 4: You?
Speaker 1: Yes, one of these skill so you got its next
Speaker 1: in there? You hear it. I'm telling you I lost
Speaker 1: my reel. They went crazy, but that's okay to you
Speaker 1: though it was, it was all good because I found it.
Speaker 1: I found it, you know. To be honest, I'm glad
Speaker 1: they made those records because those records right there helped
Speaker 1: motivate hip hop. Now they following what the fuck I'm doing?
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying. So I had you all
Speaker 1: in my grips because you have my reel making all
Speaker 1: these beads. Now this is really starting to make sense
Speaker 1: to me because I thought you produced our hometown hero
Speaker 1: steady beat No Doubt before I let go. This was
Speaker 1: like a big yes song in Philadelphia. Yeah your drums, Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course. I think Lawrence was mad at me and
Speaker 1: took my drums and made a record. So it's just like,
Speaker 1: are people making copies of this reel? It's you know
Speaker 1: once once I put it on the bridge, Yeah it was.
Speaker 1: It was open. It was open, was the beginning of
Speaker 1: the bridge. It was open, so you could your peoples
Speaker 1: grabbing it from there. Eric B's President you know, Milk
Speaker 1: said he, y'all, I didn't use your bridge. I'll use
Speaker 1: President due. It's the same, real bro, if you got
Speaker 1: it from there, it's the same drum sound. Buddy, What
Speaker 1: was the story with beat Bider now so llll releases
Speaker 1: this is really way to beat? Well? No, well, I
Speaker 1: thought it was over Rock the Bells because right now
Speaker 1: the thing is originally Rick Ruben told me there's a
Speaker 1: version of Rock the Bells where he's doing it over
Speaker 1: uh the Peter Piper Brick take me to the Martin
Speaker 1: gro My Bob James and then run barked on him
Speaker 1: like no, we got some ship like that you can't
Speaker 1: do that. Wow. And so then Rick and l I'll
Speaker 1: go back and do it over the trouble Front break
Speaker 1: and then did another version of which mc shan claims
Speaker 1: that you know this is so. What's really weird is
Speaker 1: that at least four records for like early records of
Speaker 1: yours are confrontational records of some sort between rocks and
Speaker 1: between my early records was kind of like frustration records,
Speaker 1: kind of like matter of fact, if there was meant
Speaker 1: to be records, I did start going at people because
Speaker 1: all right, we made the Rock Sande record, it did
Speaker 1: what it did. I made the Dimples record, it did
Speaker 1: what it did. I'm like, oh, ship, I can make
Speaker 1: these type of records like a go at motherfuckers. So
Speaker 1: I never knew about this beef with LLLL or at
Speaker 1: least like I mean, it didn't really escalate, but I mean,
Speaker 1: did LLLL even realize that it was? It was diverted
Speaker 1: by Was it a New York thing? No, No, it
Speaker 1: was it was diverted by b DP.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: Once that came in, Yeah, it was like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: have you heard b BID?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you hear you heard the remix of Rock the Bells? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the original, the other version the other boom yeah that one.
Speaker 1: So it was just so the same. This came out
Speaker 1: first or that the real rock the bells came out
Speaker 1: first and the remix came later. And when we heard
Speaker 1: the remix was like, yo, hold up, that's the fuck
Speaker 1: that is Mally scratch be. It was boom boom bab
Speaker 1: boom bat boom back boom boom boom ba ba boom.
Speaker 1: We was like, and he's and then he's talking about
Speaker 1: rocking the bells over the same beat. He was like,
Speaker 1: hold up, that's the same same pattern. I think you
Speaker 1: were the first person to really introduced the idea of
Speaker 1: a dub or an instrumental, because I think before hip
Speaker 1: hop hip hop twelve inches didn't have the instrumental on it, right.
Speaker 1: I remember one like maybe sugar Hill Birthday Rhymes, they
Speaker 1: had a instrumental on the back. But you would always
Speaker 1: do something where it's what we now call the TV version.
Speaker 1: So when when you when you're mixing the studio, the
Speaker 1: TV version is it's it's an instrumental and it's an
Speaker 1: occasional background vocal guide so the MC knows where they
Speaker 1: are in the song. Right, So like if I'm doing
Speaker 1: the Freshman to belly. It'd be like, now this is yeah, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: upside that right right, Like what made you I believe
Speaker 1: you like one of the first to do a dub
Speaker 1: or whatever, like was it for the purpose of doing
Speaker 1: it live or no? You know I used to do
Speaker 1: that because you noticed a lot of my records from
Speaker 1: back then. I never gave instrumentals up to this day. No, see,
Speaker 1: to this day, I found some instrumentals from like key Gats,
Speaker 1: like how'd you get that right? I never gave instrumentals
Speaker 1: up because I didn't want nobody rhyming over my beat
Speaker 1: other than the artists. I didn't want nobody coming out
Speaker 1: with mixed tapes. I don't want nobody coming out with
Speaker 1: stuff yeah. I didn't want all that, So I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: I wanted to when I put this record out, only
Speaker 1: they gonna rhyme. You're only gonna hear them rhyming over it.
Speaker 1: I never even gave you a space to rhyme on
Speaker 1: those dubs. I would always put the vocals up, put
Speaker 1: fuck you up a little. You're not gonna get clean sixteen,
Speaker 1: No clean eight, because you're not gonna be rhyming over
Speaker 1: my beats, I had to give up something. I wasn't
Speaker 1: giving up that instrumental so let me And plus I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I used to love Jamaican dub music back
Speaker 1: in the day. I grew up of a lot of that,
Speaker 1: you know, so I used to always hear my Jamaican
Speaker 1: doesn't I always figure to myself why hip hop don't
Speaker 1: have dub versions, you know, you know kind of like
Speaker 1: when I was in Unique learning the equipment. I was
Speaker 1: learning the echoes, the quarter echoes, the so and sos.
Speaker 1: So I was like, always like, damn, it would be
Speaker 1: hot to have, you know, to give it that reggae
Speaker 1: flavor whatever, like certain certain words and you know. And
Speaker 1: plus you know in disco they was, you know, doing
Speaker 1: that a little bit too, So you know, I was
Speaker 1: like hearing some like garage versions of stuff they would have,
Speaker 1: like the echos, I was like, damn, they need to
Speaker 1: ad in hip hop too. So that's another reason why
Speaker 1: I went with it with the Bridge. I guess that
Speaker 1: probably the most notable. Well, even you chopping up and
Speaker 1: peached the President, I always noticed that I would say
Speaker 1: that that record, if anything starts, what I feel will
Speaker 1: be the accessory noise period of hip hop. Gotcha? Which, uh,
Speaker 1: I guess you took Magic Disco machines scratching. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: flipped it backwards. That backwards sound wasn't a mistake. That
Speaker 1: was I want to use scratching because I already you know,
Speaker 1: I was into my break beats. I already knew I
Speaker 1: liked scratching. When I used it forward with the beat,
Speaker 1: it didn't make sense really, you know when it was
Speaker 1: because it was like, it wouldn't have made sense because
Speaker 1: them I flipped it backwards and played it backwards and
Speaker 1: triggered it and ran it with I ran it up
Speaker 1: against the kick because it's triggered off the kick. It
Speaker 1: created something special. So I was like, wow, this is
Speaker 1: real special. I never heard nothing like this on a
Speaker 1: record ever before. I'm turn this bitch up. So what
Speaker 1: he's talking about is there's there's a break by the
Speaker 1: Magic Disco machine called scratching, which normally I mean it's
Speaker 1: a hip hop staple and most hip hop DJs will
Speaker 1: it's called a stab if there's if there's a horn
Speaker 1: part in the record with a good kick under it,
Speaker 1: that's your exclamation point if you're a DJ. So when
Speaker 1: you when you're MC's rhyming over a beat and you
Speaker 1: want to that's your important, that's your fist through the door.
Speaker 1: So what Marley basically did was reversed it to create
Speaker 1: the bridge, which is h and a little bit of
Speaker 1: echo to reverse an echo. So what is on your
Speaker 1: mind at this point? Because this is extremely unorthodox, right,
Speaker 1: that's that's pre public enemy, I know, you the verse
Speaker 1: that pre public. What is on your mind when you're
Speaker 1: doing this? I mean that must have been you know,
Speaker 1: I mean when I made that and and the funny
Speaker 1: thing about making that record that wasn't even supposed to
Speaker 1: be a record that was interlude music for Queensbridge Day?
Speaker 1: Wait what that song was interlude music for Queensbridge Day?
Speaker 1: So because there was you know, there's so many bands
Speaker 1: in Queensbridge, Like I mentioned, there was many bands. So
Speaker 1: they used to have Queensbridge Day and the band used
Speaker 1: to perform. It wasn't even hip hop yet, So what
Speaker 1: bands are performing at Queensbridge? Like I said, Fred Fowl
Speaker 1: and all the residents used to come out because it
Speaker 1: was band heavy. Dale Payne used to have his artists
Speaker 1: out there. Andre Booth used to get busy. He used
Speaker 1: to have his artists. You know everybody. You know, they
Speaker 1: had Cinnamon used to come out there with dal Payne
Speaker 1: thanks to you. So they was a lot, you know.
Speaker 1: So we was just I said, yo, Shan, let's make
Speaker 1: a song for intermission, music for tomorrow.
Speaker 4: Wait.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that wasn't supposed to be a record. I told
Speaker 1: you a lot of my stuff wasn't supposed to be records.
Speaker 1: I didn't get into this some of the great hip
Speaker 1: hop stories. It's just like, let me throw something together
Speaker 1: right right right, change someone's life real quick. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: don't try, You just do what in your heart and
Speaker 1: it just happens. I wasn't trying to I wasn't trying
Speaker 1: to become what what happened to this day. I was
Speaker 1: just I just wanted something hot for me to battle
Speaker 1: it on the radio and just come with some heat
Speaker 1: every week. I had to. I had to come with
Speaker 1: heat because you know, everybody was going against us. I
Speaker 1: had to create my own crew, my own ammunition. And
Speaker 1: it worked. So when the final products done, like, what
Speaker 1: are people looking at? Because we didn't know I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask a teenager and I was very much aware
Speaker 1: of the song when it came out when I was fifteen.
Speaker 1: We were just like I thought. I was like, is
Speaker 1: that a fire truck? Like, what the hell is that noise?
Speaker 1: Like we could not, for the life of us figure
Speaker 1: out what it was or what you all were trying
Speaker 1: to convey, right, But it's just I just I was
Speaker 1: conveying mass hysteria, madness because when you know, I already
Speaker 1: knew that in piece to President kicking sneer was already
Speaker 1: head bopping material and if you put some some fire
Speaker 1: behind it, which that noise was, I just figured that
Speaker 1: it's it's like a it's like an undeniable And we
Speaker 1: played this song about about four times that time in
Speaker 1: the park. Everybody was loving it, and you know, unfortunately
Speaker 1: somebody got killed that night at a peace rally. Oh
Speaker 1: the first day we played that in the park. Later
Speaker 1: on somebody got killed, damn. So it was it's kind
Speaker 1: of weird. The Queensbridge I know of where mob deepest
Speaker 1: rhyming about like yo, I might not make it tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Where does that come into play? Is this eighty seven
Speaker 1: to eighty is I mean crack Queen's Bridge. I think
Speaker 1: by the time that really started happening, the crack ever
Speaker 1: started really getting higher and higher. I think that's probably
Speaker 1: at the point when I moved out the hood because
Speaker 1: it was getting out of control. Really, I mean it
Speaker 1: was like night of the Living base heads on the
Speaker 1: block type, you know, people walking through the lights is
Speaker 1: out on the block, and it turned into a different
Speaker 1: place at night, you know. And I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's when I decided to move to a story like
Speaker 1: how did you mc shan hook up? One day I
Speaker 1: met Shann. I was in the river park. I believe
Speaker 1: I was probably writing rhymes. I was probably sitting in
Speaker 1: the park writing rhymes and I saw him riding his
Speaker 1: mini bike, and you know, he told me that he
Speaker 1: could rap, and I was like, Oh, that's what's up.
Speaker 1: That's cool. He told me, I gotta rhyme about you.
Speaker 1: I gotta rap about you. I'm like, all right, cool,
Speaker 1: he said. I said, well, just you know, bring about
Speaker 1: my house. One day, about a week later, he came
Speaker 1: by my house with it written on a bag and
Speaker 1: it was mall, he'scratched the full Master us when he's
Speaker 1: the dad that's on a right that was actually on
Speaker 1: the air records. So I mean of your arsenal, I mean,
Speaker 1: where does Shan rink? As far as the mcs that
Speaker 1: you've worked with Shan He he ranks, he got, he
Speaker 1: got his number one status and a few things with me.
Speaker 1: He has a certain tone. His voice is like an instrument,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Certain people they could rhyme
Speaker 1: and talk and singers too, Some people could sing, but
Speaker 1: some people's voices are an instrument. And his voice is
Speaker 1: an instrument. Like the tone of it. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: an instrument. It's like a horn. It's like it's like
Speaker 1: a it's like an instrument. So I give him that.
Speaker 1: He's really though. And his rhymes, you know, you gotta
Speaker 1: think he made Jane back in the day.
Speaker 2: Jane.
Speaker 1: My mom loves that, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my mom actually loves Jane stops Jane and my dad
Speaker 1: see it is positive. They're talking about not doing cracks.
Speaker 1: And he had the song about Cocaine. It was that
Speaker 1: love story, right, how he fell in love with this
Speaker 1: girl and at the end of the story it was
Speaker 1: her name was Cocaine. Oh, so you know he was
Speaker 1: kind of visualizing those those little rhymes kind of like
Speaker 1: were were you doing live shows with him as well? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was. I was just DJ for me. So what
Speaker 1: was his what was his what was the crowd responsible?
Speaker 1: Like he had him he was he was he was
Speaker 1: like he was getting the ladies. He had like left
Speaker 1: me lonely out too. So yeah, he had his run.
Speaker 1: He had just definitely had a hard run with the chicks. Chicks.
Speaker 1: Chicks used to like she before I bring up Kane
Speaker 1: which is more eighty eight, I gotta know about your
Speaker 1: your your your your brief time with with with rock Kemp,
Speaker 1: which mm hmm. I've seen a few shan things where
Speaker 1: he's like why did it whatever? Like what is what
Speaker 1: is the story of Eric Breeze President and well Eric
Speaker 1: b eric Bee was like a roommate to me and Queens.
Speaker 1: But he used to come, you know, come stay at
Speaker 1: the crib. He's from Queens, you know, he's actually from Corona.
Speaker 1: Queen's all East Elmhurst, one of them. But it's the same,
Speaker 1: you know, same kind of thing. But he used to
Speaker 1: hang out with him. Pol Or Pole introduced me to him,
Speaker 1: and you know he started hanging out with me then,
Speaker 1: you know, starting not going home, really hanging out showing
Speaker 1: at the crib. You know, he used to see a
Speaker 1: lot of people come through then you know, when he's
Speaker 1: like yo, I got a rap up, you know, I
Speaker 1: want to bring a wrap up, you know, and he,
Speaker 1: you know, the first day, he said somebody was gonna come.
Speaker 1: I believe it was Freddie Fox. He didn't show up,
Speaker 1: so he could have been Freddie Fox. Wait, Freddy Fox
Speaker 1: should have been over that beat. Whoever would have showed
Speaker 1: up probably would have got it because we you know,
Speaker 1: we just had you know, he was just ready for
Speaker 1: a session, So who knows what we would have made.
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying. So obviously he didn't show up,
Speaker 1: So he said, I got somebody coming to the next day,
Speaker 1: which was Ra. So Ro came and we made my
Speaker 1: melody first. Now you had to think about it. I
Speaker 1: was just just getting in the studio with Caine just
Speaker 1: you know, Kin was just writing for Biz, so I
Speaker 1: was I was kind of like secretly making Kine album
Speaker 1: on the low, okay, because the record company acts like
Speaker 1: he wasn't an artist, and I already knew it that
Speaker 1: he that he was dope, so I would just record
Speaker 1: him when when when bears would be late kind of thing. Right,
Speaker 1: So he's getting an album together, So I'm working with Kine,
Speaker 1: now rock him Kane and now rock Kim wanted to
Speaker 1: do my melody now. Now I was already rhyming, you know,
Speaker 1: fucking with g rapping Kine. Well, they was like one, yeah,
Speaker 1: right right now he wanted. Now he came with my melody,
Speaker 1: which was like it was like so different at my
Speaker 1: house from what we was doing. It was mad slow.
Speaker 1: It was like it was a head bober. It was dope,
Speaker 1: but it was like a head bobber. Listen to record,
Speaker 1: and you know before he had came, you know, just
Speaker 1: the sessions before was like all energetic. So I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: sham man recording man, real quick, Wow, record the vocals, man,
Speaker 1: i'mna go over here, real I'm running, you know, back
Speaker 1: and go program something else, go tap out something else.
Speaker 1: Just record his vocals. I wan't see all come out.
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying. Shan was a he would
Speaker 1: hang around the studio and learn and see what we
Speaker 1: was doing and learn learn how you know, learn, Oh wow,
Speaker 1: this is how you do the vocals. Oh this is
Speaker 1: how you do this. So he was he was learning.
Speaker 1: He was he was an artist, but he was more
Speaker 1: of apprentice learner. He wanted to learn how to make
Speaker 1: make the music too. So I was like I was
Speaker 1: set it up. I set it up when he went
Speaker 1: over there and went to the board and punched it up,
Speaker 1: and okay, all right, I'm going to equ you and
Speaker 1: eq and no. I just left it ready for him,
Speaker 1: and yo, just record him. I'll be right back. You
Speaker 1: get what I'm saying. I taught him out of punching,
Speaker 1: you know, I was teaching shann how to do all.
Speaker 1: So I was like, all right, let me see if
Speaker 1: you nice record him. I'll be right back. So I
Speaker 1: went in the other room probably tapped out another beat
Speaker 1: while he was doing the vocals to my melody. By
Speaker 1: the time I came back out, I was like came
Speaker 1: out and like I was like, damn, I like this,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't have the energy of what I've been
Speaker 1: doing where I'm at, you know what I'm saying. It
Speaker 1: was it was dope, but it was like when everything
Speaker 1: else I was doing with that, it was like out
Speaker 1: of here. My melody was the perfect song to do
Speaker 1: the wap right right right right right, because like that
Speaker 1: came out right. I just remember, right, this is my
Speaker 1: melody by rock him Eric being rock him. It's slow,
Speaker 1: It's like what eighty what's the yah for?
Speaker 7: The year.
Speaker 1: It went with the year the base check out my
Speaker 1: melody hands out of a beat of yours. That beat
Speaker 1: right there was probably just on the spot makeup. And
Speaker 1: then I believe that Eric Bee probably liked that Doom Doom, Doom, Doom,
Speaker 1: Doom doom the baseline, but when you hear it changed.
Speaker 1: Since I only had a Casiot Season one O one
Speaker 1: and I was able to just have one MIDI program running,
Speaker 1: I was just changing the sound with the MIDI still playing,
Speaker 1: so it's going doom doom doom, and then the bell.
Speaker 1: Then you had the other sounds. I'm just changing the
Speaker 1: patches playing the keyboards. That was me. That was me. Yeah, yeah, yah,
Speaker 1: I start. Yeah, I started playing keyboards back then, but
Speaker 1: then I got bored with it and I kind of stopped.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I ever stopped, but after you know,
Speaker 1: around everybody's president. I played those base that baseline and
Speaker 1: that one, so I was learning a little about the keyboards,
Speaker 1: but for some reason I stopped. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: just stopped. But in your mind, you're not thinking like
Speaker 1: this is this is a new revolution right here. No,
Speaker 1: I just thinking that we finished the session and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna move on to the next one, because I got
Speaker 1: beats to make. So how long before Eric Being's President
Speaker 1: gets me? Well, we made that, and I gave him
Speaker 1: a copy of what we did in the studio that day.
Speaker 1: And the next week I heard all over the radio, Wait,
Speaker 1: what's the time between my melody and Eric Beings President?
Speaker 1: How many days? It was? About the following week I
Speaker 1: heard on the radio. Well I heard, I heard, I
Speaker 1: started hearing it on the radio. And still then you
Speaker 1: didn't think like, no, I knew, I knew, I knew,
Speaker 1: I knew. I believe me. When I made Eric's President
Speaker 1: Duke's I already knew that that was gonna be this,
Speaker 1: That was gonna be it, because that was more of
Speaker 1: where I was at. You notice, I was at make
Speaker 1: the music with your mouth, biz, the bridge and all
Speaker 1: of that. And even then I think ninety seven btpms
Speaker 1: was a little slow for you because by that point
Speaker 1: all your choices were like but one twelve super fast,
Speaker 1: I know, But the you make the music and then
Speaker 1: nobody beat the biz was over there, right, you give
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Those was real good hits for me.
Speaker 1: So I was like, yo, I want to be over there.
Speaker 1: That's why I was trying to go, and that's why
Speaker 1: I want to bring Raw. I want to bring him there.
Speaker 1: I want to bring him right right right to where
Speaker 1: I was at with super fast and not not too fast,
Speaker 1: but you know where people can understand you and and dance.
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying. I will say that because
Speaker 1: by this point, I'll say that between you and the
Speaker 1: Bomb Squad, both of you guys pretty much revolutionizing and
Speaker 1: leading the pack of the new wave of hip hop,
Speaker 1: which is like just this sonic assault matching the time
Speaker 1: period I was like your your version of the the
Speaker 1: panic sound was definitely more I mean, it was more
Speaker 1: danceable and dance like. You could still play Raw to
Speaker 1: this day. You can still play Poison to this day,
Speaker 1: whereas I mean, you know, just the the engineering of
Speaker 1: some of the stuff on Nation of Millions is so
Speaker 1: dense that it doesn't doesn't cut through, like how many
Speaker 1: how many how long is it taking you to mix
Speaker 1: the stuff? And no, you know a lot of that
Speaker 1: stuff was made in mastering. I had very good guys
Speaker 1: master and I her powers. I'm coughing bats. Back in
Speaker 1: the day, I heard I had her powers, dude, so
Speaker 1: I would come he would hate yo. Let me tell you,
Speaker 1: he would hate to see me coming bro right, because
Speaker 1: you know I'm coming with some ship from the living room.
Speaker 1: Oh here come Mollie. I gotta fix this ship. But
Speaker 1: by the time I left, mastering them fucking yo them
Speaker 1: ships was like coom colmom. He really fixed a lot
Speaker 1: of my song. My song was made on on four
Speaker 1: tracks in the crib without dB X. Are you mcs
Speaker 1: using pop stoppers? Just straight up like what type of mic?
Speaker 1: I had a sure mic without the without the bubble,
Speaker 1: without Wow. That's why, Mike, that's why my melody sounds
Speaker 1: so screechy in his voice, Roxanne sound so screechy some
Speaker 1: sham records and king because I had to fucked up
Speaker 1: Mike Tarik refuses. Tarik will do eighty of his vocals
Speaker 1: on like a sure fifty eight, Yeah, hoping to get that.
Speaker 1: That just rhyming with the distortion. Yeah, you gotta take
Speaker 1: the top off that ball. There was there was rhyming
Speaker 1: with the ball off. I didn't even have a ball
Speaker 1: were so broke. Do you still have that? Yes?
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: I still got that, Mike. I can still got that.
Speaker 1: If you If I'd have known he was going to
Speaker 1: talk about that A brought out. That's more. I always
Speaker 1: be bringing it with me.
Speaker 7: Have one got to they got any of your stuff
Speaker 7: in the new Smithsonian and DC, I feel like maybe
Speaker 7: they need to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe after this it could happen. Oh, it's trust me. Actually,
Speaker 1: I think shout out to Timothy at the Smithsonian. I
Speaker 1: think she's a Yeah, I'm meet with her. Give her
Speaker 1: more artifacts there. That's a cool thing about the Smithsonian
Speaker 1: For a pack rack like me. I could just give
Speaker 1: her the stuff and she is the hip hop Yeah,
Speaker 1: absolutely make the connection. How does Caine enter the well
Speaker 1: the picture? Let me let me finish with the Eric
Speaker 1: Bees President because the beat from Eric B's President came
Speaker 1: from a song that I made called Stun of the
Speaker 1: Block by Tragedy. I'm gonna send you it. We're gonna
Speaker 1: put it on this but it came from a song
Speaker 1: called Stun of the Block and you know the funky
Speaker 1: cuts because DJ hot Day used to be Tragedy's DJ.
Speaker 1: So I made a song called Stun of the Block
Speaker 1: right after super Kids. The Tragedy Won't Happen to Me
Speaker 1: made that and then the follow up song was a
Speaker 1: song called Stun of the Block. Now Stun of the
Speaker 1: Block had Eric Be's President kicks in there at the pattern.
Speaker 2: All of that.
Speaker 1: But when I did everybody's president since I couldn't make
Speaker 1: Stun of the Block a record because they couldn't they
Speaker 1: was too young to talk about stunts stunts on the block?
Speaker 1: How old Strategedy? He probably was about probably about twelve
Speaker 1: when he made Stunt of the Block of twelve or thirteen,
Speaker 1: very very young. He's like, wait, speaking of which, I
Speaker 1: don't want I don't want to miss it. Craig g Yeah,
Speaker 1: did you produce Veronica like all the stuff that he
Speaker 1: did for pop Art? Right, A lot of stuff he
Speaker 1: did for pop Art? I did produce a lot of
Speaker 1: it in the earlier stuff. Yeah, oh god, okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: So so what basically happened. I took the drums from
Speaker 1: Stunt of the Block to turn everything down, just kept
Speaker 1: the drums, then put over like a fat rat baseline
Speaker 1: over it. So I already had that drum pattern already
Speaker 1: for another record. I sent I'm gonna send you all
Speaker 1: that for this so wow, and then and then you
Speaker 1: could hear it. You can hear it. It's the same drums,
Speaker 1: same everything, but it's different. Music, but I couldn't. I
Speaker 1: had to erase all of that ship. I don't even
Speaker 1: have stunt in the block more. But I got the mixes,
Speaker 1: but I had to erase everything on the master you
Speaker 1: need to make a dub I got. I got the copies,
Speaker 1: mixes and instrumental and all that, but I don't have
Speaker 1: the master because the beat was so hot. It's Erb's president.
Speaker 1: If I didn't erase what was there, you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: the foundation of Eric Being's president. Okay, I guess that's
Speaker 1: so sorthy. Second in my mind at the funeral for
Speaker 1: stunting the block, like you never made it.
Speaker 4: Right, right right?
Speaker 1: I got the mixes though, I got you know, all
Speaker 1: types of mixes from it, but I don't have the
Speaker 1: actual multi track. But I got so by this point,
Speaker 1: is the SB twelve now your instrument of choice?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: You're still no. Let this be a note that that
Speaker 1: all the great hip hop producers still hold true their
Speaker 1: their weapon of choice. Yeah, I mean I still have
Speaker 1: a few of them. So you say Ninth is still
Speaker 1: using fruity loops, he I think he is. I mean,
Speaker 1: at one point in time he was heavy on on
Speaker 1: machine right, So I think he's using machine now. But
Speaker 1: I want to say back in like twenty it's like
Speaker 1: maybe twenty twelve thirteen, he sent me like a whole batch.
Speaker 1: She was like, yo, new fruity joints, all fruity loop beats.
Speaker 1: He went back to it. So yeah, he's still He's
Speaker 1: still on it. And you know what me, I moved
Speaker 1: I moved on. I mean, I could still use the
Speaker 1: old stuff, but I have my twelve hundreds, but I
Speaker 1: do use my my renaissance and going to the twelve
Speaker 1: hundred mold because it feels kind of like a twelve hundred,
Speaker 1: does it though? I mean the sound, not the feel.
Speaker 1: The sound a little ashy okay renaissance, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: it didn't do it like this doesn't feel the same.
Speaker 1: I still, I mean, I've learned on machine, but I'm
Speaker 1: still like I'm still grabbing the my weapon of choices
Speaker 1: in the two thousand. I do have a twelve hundred,
Speaker 1: big o DC. You got the two thousand. I use
Speaker 1: logic in reasons right now, I'm a logic guy or reasons.
Speaker 1: So you're not afraid of technology, No, I move with it.
Speaker 1: I'm not getting left behind at all, because if I
Speaker 1: would have been the person to get left behind. I
Speaker 1: probably would have been sampling. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I probably would have never sampled that first thing and
Speaker 1: used it for what it was at that point. I'm
Speaker 1: always the one to grab technology and and use it
Speaker 1: for what I need it for. You're going to make
Speaker 1: it for what you're making it for, but I'm going
Speaker 1: to use it for what I need it for. I see.
Speaker 1: So in eighty eight, is I mean, are you overwhelmed
Speaker 1: at this point because you're making the Going Off record,
Speaker 1: You're making Cane's record, You're making Chante's stuff. Yeah, cool
Speaker 1: g raps about the end of the photo and how
Speaker 1: and how long were you spending on these records? Just
Speaker 1: real quick, like how long would it take to make
Speaker 1: Going Off? We're making a record? Like we're making two
Speaker 1: records a day type type thing was like it was
Speaker 1: like an assembly line. We're making two records a day.
Speaker 1: Who's next, what's tomorrow? Sessions after session? Every day is
Speaker 1: a session? Is it still in your kitchen? This way?
Speaker 1: After I moved to a story, it became like an
Speaker 1: assembly line. That's when I met Kan So talk about King. Now,
Speaker 1: King comes to my door business late one day he
Speaker 1: comes to my door. Yeah, I'm thinking. I'm thinking he's
Speaker 1: trying to stick me up because now I lived in
Speaker 1: the story. Finally, I was like, what do you want
Speaker 1: to get paranoid?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: Now I go downstairs. It's a dude. Some dogs can
Speaker 1: do it at the door, Like, yo, I don't even
Speaker 1: know this dude. I don't know why I even buzzed
Speaker 1: him in my building. He got to the door. I'm like, there,
Speaker 1: I don't even know this dude. I left buzz him
Speaker 1: in the building. At the door, I'm like, yo, ship,
Speaker 1: he's like upstairs, so it's only one of him. It's
Speaker 1: only me and him. So I'm like, yo, it's not
Speaker 1: two of them. So it's it's gonna have to be
Speaker 1: me and dukes. You get what I'm saying. So so anyway,
Speaker 1: like you know, I opened my door like I have
Speaker 1: a little halfway and ships. Jo what up? Like, yo,
Speaker 1: I'm here to meet Bizz. Oh yeah, I'm like, so
Speaker 1: I write business rhymes. I say, oh you do, so
Speaker 1: tell me a rhyme that you wrote for biz And
Speaker 1: he said some ship that never came out yet. Okay.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is nig official, because how
Speaker 1: are you gonna know that. I said, all right, come in,
Speaker 1: So I let him in the ship and we're sitting there.
Speaker 1: We're sitting there talking and ship. We're sitting there. You know,
Speaker 1: he's telling me that, you know, rhyme a little. You know,
Speaker 1: I never heard myself on the on the mic on
Speaker 1: the on the so and so you know, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh whatever. So you know, we're sitting there. Biz kind
Speaker 1: of late, so you know, I said, fuck, let me throwing, throwing,
Speaker 1: fucking I'll take you there beat you had it made already. Yeah,
Speaker 1: matter of fact, he said, let's run. I like to
Speaker 1: rhyme off I take you that. So I chopped it
Speaker 1: up real quick and put it there. Then then the
Speaker 1: ship had Big Dady, you know that ship. And I
Speaker 1: caught that and started like, He's like, oh, so that's
Speaker 1: gonna be kind of bond that I made that. He
Speaker 1: rhymed off that, and that was kind of like his
Speaker 1: first little demo before BIZ got there, did or was
Speaker 1: he He wass already big Daddy, But when he rhymed
Speaker 1: ing that, I knew. I was like, Yo, this nigga
Speaker 1: is way different from everybody I'm fucking with here. This
Speaker 1: nigga is the ship this niggas he's the real ship
Speaker 1: because the diction was righty at the voice, and I
Speaker 1: was like, yo, nigga kind of dice and and I
Speaker 1: went back to the record, coming Yo, Biz right is
Speaker 1: the ship? Yo? Biz writing new artists? They told me
Speaker 1: so well, and so on the low, I would just record,
Speaker 1: you know, I would just record more with him every
Speaker 1: time he would come. I'm recording a little more with him,
Speaker 1: get more, ammo. And then after a while I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: we had his album done, ship, but I kind of
Speaker 1: I kind of did his his earlier recordings around bisbeeing
Speaker 1: late Sony's lateness to Thank's career. Well, you know, especially
Speaker 1: the first record, because that's how we first bonded off,
Speaker 1: the first you know, the first little thing and at
Speaker 1: that time in hip hop, because you know, you just
Speaker 1: say so freely, like, well, Kane was business writer. Was
Speaker 1: there any kind of stigma in terms of being a
Speaker 1: m C that had a writer? You know that The
Speaker 1: funny thing nobody with Biz, I mean nobody never won
Speaker 1: at him for they probably didn't even know that he
Speaker 1: didn't write the Vapors first, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: They didn't know Caine wrote the vapors for him. You know,
Speaker 1: Biz rhymes when he wrote a rhyme, it was like
Speaker 1: a fun, happy rhyme, but any rhyme that made a
Speaker 1: lot of sense.
Speaker 6: He wrote the toilet.
Speaker 4: Most likely.
Speaker 1: You know, has Biz always spelled his name in every
Speaker 1: rhyme he's ever spent to be that that was the
Speaker 1: selling point too. He understood marketing very early. I feel
Speaker 1: you're there in the last hour of this very special
Speaker 1: Court Lovel Supreme interview with the legendary Marley Maaul, who
Speaker 1: just told us about working with some of the best
Speaker 1: c's of the eighties and not even dating it. I
Speaker 1: think of all time period of all time, Yes, definitely
Speaker 1: of all time. So Kin and g Rap in the
Speaker 1: same crew, because that version of Raw that I heard
Speaker 1: where they just why didn't that come come? What? Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: well why did I even make the B side of
Speaker 1: the real version? Your man g Rat rhymed all the
Speaker 1: way to the end. He killed it, you know, he
Speaker 1: was like g Rap, I mean it was that was
Speaker 1: a real battle. That was it was really going on
Speaker 1: that that was like really because at that point Kane
Speaker 1: was getting so famous in the crew and g Rap
Speaker 1: been here already, so he was like trying to hold
Speaker 1: he was around before k Right, he was around before Kaneka. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was around before Kane. So you know, the the
Speaker 1: new cat against the the you know, the the street rapper,
Speaker 1: you give what I'm saying. G rap was always that
Speaker 1: the hard rapper with with with Polo. Now they get
Speaker 1: to clash on the record going off on a on
Speaker 1: a crazy beat. Oh man, that ship was crazy when
Speaker 1: they killed that raw ship. So even then, did you
Speaker 1: feel like there's some historical shit? Yeah? I knew right
Speaker 1: there because it was like the it was my Titans
Speaker 1: right there going at it. It was clash of the Titans.
Speaker 1: It was clash of the Titans for us. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was crazy. So this leads to the story. Well I
Speaker 1: have two stories of the symphony. Okay, One why was
Speaker 1: Shan not on the symphony? Mm hmm too? Why was
Speaker 1: Kane obviously not my first person? Well, basically, you know
Speaker 1: we made that record when we left the photo shoot
Speaker 1: on the back when we all standing and from this
Speaker 1: plane was that we rented that It was a prop.
Speaker 1: There was a prop. Everything was a problem. You started
Speaker 1: many unreachable, right of course. I just thought like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's what we gotta do we gotta make it one
Speaker 1: day when we yeah, no doubt, you know, I was
Speaker 1: I was told that. The first Instagram front of He's like, yo,
Speaker 1: you know, he was like, yeah, we get in front
Speaker 1: of a plane. We looked like we're doing it. We
Speaker 1: looked like we, you know, we're really doing it. So
Speaker 1: we got in front of that. You know, we got
Speaker 1: in front of that plane and people thought we was
Speaker 1: really doing it. And yes, we thought you were doing it.
Speaker 1: And then guess what happened? Then we started really doing it.
Speaker 1: It's like sometime you you know, you speaking into existence
Speaker 1: like that, and we kind of did. And next thing,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, that wasn't my first time being
Speaker 1: there private joint. I was already experienced the experience in
Speaker 1: the Chante Area era, you know what I mean. So,
Speaker 1: but we stood in front of those and looked like
Speaker 1: we just came from off tour. It looked like we're
Speaker 1: so busy. And wow, after that, after that, those pictures
Speaker 1: came out and everybody saw that we really started getting
Speaker 1: that busy. They came right in. Well that that inspired
Speaker 1: and and for shar not being on the record, he
Speaker 1: you know, he just he didn't you know, he didn't
Speaker 1: show up. He's supposed to come. He said, I'll meet
Speaker 1: you o there and he just didn't come. And you know,
Speaker 1: I put does he regret it? I don't know. You
Speaker 1: may have to ask him when you get him here.
Speaker 1: You not. Once it was just like damn, I wanted
Speaker 1: to be on that, Like I would have been salty,
Speaker 1: you know. But that was a big record because look
Speaker 1: what would have did for imagine if that was in
Speaker 1: dudes Arsenal, it could have been you know, maybe a
Speaker 1: little different situation, a different turnout. It could have been
Speaker 1: a little different. I mean not to say anything you
Speaker 1: know bad would do, but you know he could have
Speaker 1: had that in his arson or like yo chefing what
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And that means a lot
Speaker 1: because master it's considered the greatest, one of the greatest
Speaker 1: poets there you go, So that that's that the first
Speaker 1: I mean, he had the crash crew and all those guys,
Speaker 1: but this is like a posse of guys that wasn't
Speaker 1: a crew, right, there's a posse of guys that you know,
Speaker 1: we we and Juice crew, but we could hold our own.
Speaker 1: Anybody could hold their own kind of I can make
Speaker 1: my own record and still stand. But you know master
Speaker 1: asty very well from being the first person on that record,
Speaker 1: you know, And I put him there as a filler,
Speaker 1: trying to put him there just in case he wasn't
Speaker 1: even supposed to really stay there. Get you get what
Speaker 1: you're holding out for for whoever was supposed to show
Speaker 1: you mind? Who did you think was gonna was it raw?
Speaker 1: Like do you think rock Ken would have held his
Speaker 1: own on the on this video that that was too
Speaker 1: slow for him? He would have been dope because he
Speaker 1: rock He rock be his president, so he would have
Speaker 1: killed that symphony. I think, to be honest, I would
Speaker 1: have always liked to hear I think Chante. If Chante
Speaker 1: was on a symphony, Boddy we she you know, I
Speaker 1: always I wanted her to be on it. But I
Speaker 1: had a record with her already on my album, so
Speaker 1: I you know, I had a record bracket. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: was up with the war between or the back of
Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't necessarily respond, but like what was
Speaker 1: her feeling at that time? Was it like all these
Speaker 1: females are blowing up with these pop hits, and you
Speaker 1: know when it's my turn? Because by that point, Salt
Speaker 1: and Pepper was kicking in I know that whack. It
Speaker 1: was probably aimed at even them or J J Fat whatever,
Speaker 1: but even I guess she even addressed it on H
Speaker 1: Bad Sister, the first cut on the solo record that
Speaker 1: she did. I believe she was her feeling at that time,
Speaker 1: was it like when's it going to be my turn?
Speaker 1: Or she just wasn't a fan of of you know,
Speaker 1: because she was kind of hardcore rap and going at
Speaker 1: people in the crowd, and you know, she just wasn't
Speaker 1: with that pop thing yet. I mean it's before pop
Speaker 1: was proven, you know what I mean. Okay, so you
Speaker 1: know she probably didn't appreciate being, you know, rapping and
Speaker 1: going hard and then they come in with it sounded
Speaker 1: like a son and they didn't even try to make
Speaker 1: and it went really well. It's like it just got lucky,
Speaker 1: you know, not lucky, but you know it just went well.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you don't put effort into something. You just rock
Speaker 1: out and say what you feel and put it in
Speaker 1: the atmosphere and it could work out. But there's some
Speaker 1: people that go in the studio and bus day ass
Speaker 1: and it don't become anything. So you know, maybe she
Speaker 1: just felt that, yo, I'm putting in work and all
Speaker 1: they gotta do is that and pop and that. You know,
Speaker 1: but certain things are for certain people, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. One thing about Kane though, uh, I noticed
Speaker 1: that he was sort of the neutral member of the
Speaker 1: Jews Crew, whereas even Chris would shot him out on
Speaker 1: BDP records. But I mean, what was his position on
Speaker 1: being a Jewe crew member? Like, was it like, yo,
Speaker 1: why are you cool?
Speaker 7: You know?
Speaker 1: Was it? To be honest, they always had a special
Speaker 1: friendship Okay, Karas one and and and and Kane. I
Speaker 1: believe that Karas One and Miss Melody moved Kine out
Speaker 1: of his place in Brooklyn when he first got his
Speaker 1: condo for his first album. You ge know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So they always had a special a friendship way before
Speaker 1: friendship with Okay. So, so was that weird or awkward
Speaker 1: like I'm in the Juice Crew now? Well, I guess
Speaker 1: that's something they had to deal with. I mean, because
Speaker 1: Keros didn't mention him on any records. Right, And by
Speaker 1: this point is mister Magic even a factor in eighty
Speaker 1: seven eighty eight at that point, mister Magic, I would
Speaker 1: say by the eighty by the early nineties, he probably
Speaker 1: he wasn't much of a factor with everybody. Anybody was
Speaker 1: their own person. Then I wasn't on the radio with
Speaker 1: him anymore. I was doing starting to do in Control
Speaker 1: because I had an In Control album out. Put it
Speaker 1: out in what eighty nine?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 1: Eighty eighty eight, I got the budget in eighty seven,
Speaker 1: bought a house. You get what I'm saying. So at
Speaker 1: any point during this period, is this a no pun
Speaker 1: intended a water under the bridge moment? Like have you
Speaker 1: ever not run into BDP in those years and been
Speaker 1: like all right, let's talk, and you know what the
Speaker 1: funny thing? I took it serious. I wasn't fucking with them, dudes. Okay,
Speaker 1: you ain't see me on no commercials, no Sprike commercials.
Speaker 1: I was not fucking with them, bro, really because everybody
Speaker 1: they were trying to take your livelihood, right, I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: you know I ain't improved how y'all came so fuck y'all.
Speaker 1: So I never did nothing with them. Nothing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be in a Sprike commercial. So even
Speaker 1: when the shan did the Spike commercial wanted me in there,
Speaker 1: I said, no, I ain't fucking with it. I'm not
Speaker 1: fucking with y'all. They may used to be though they
Speaker 1: could do all that, but you didn't see my face
Speaker 1: in there. You ain't seen me, fucking So took a
Speaker 1: long time for y'all to finally have that conversation. And yeah,
Speaker 1: we finally, you know, because I never I never really
Speaker 1: understood why he was mad at us. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm always thought in my mind, why why why why
Speaker 1: he was mad at us? Dude? We the motherfucking Juice Coupe.
Speaker 1: We out here saving hip hop. Yeah, we all here
Speaker 1: saving hip hop, dude, and you got something to say.
Speaker 1: So I never understood why he was mad until one
Speaker 1: day I read his bio and in his bio he
Speaker 1: said it all happened with a chance meeting with mister Magic,
Speaker 1: and he described what happened, and I remembered that day.
Speaker 1: I said, oh, that was those motherfuckers. Then it all
Speaker 1: came to me, Oh, they was mad because that's the niggas,
Speaker 1: that magic shit. He dissed them and slammed the door
Speaker 1: and left me in there with them out. So on
Speaker 1: your mind when you're hearing the bridges over, it's coming
Speaker 1: from someone totally random that had nothing.
Speaker 9: To do with right.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't understand where it was coming from.
Speaker 1: And and I guess what. And I didn't even explore why.
Speaker 1: I didn't give a fuck. So I just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: fuck it, let me just walk away for a minute.
Speaker 1: I never really realized until I read his bio in
Speaker 1: the nineties. I was like hot in ninety seven and
Speaker 1: Tracy's office Tracy Chlordy's office. One day and I was
Speaker 1: going through bios. I saw PDPs off bdp's bio. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this looks interesting, see what they say
Speaker 1: about let me read this right, and I'm going through it.
Speaker 1: It all happened one day mister Magic got power Play
Speaker 1: Studio and he dissed us. I said, this ship never happened.
Speaker 1: Then I said, oh, motherfuckers. And this was like this
Speaker 1: had to be ten years later, y'ah.
Speaker 7: Wow, So how long did it take then for you
Speaker 7: to when you see him again at some point? Now
Speaker 7: that yeah, after I found out after.
Speaker 1: One day, it was like, yo, meet the way me
Speaker 1: and Chris met each other. I don't know where it
Speaker 1: was at wasn't it was in a revolving door in
Speaker 1: the building, dudes, I swear to god, dukes. I was
Speaker 1: on one side of revolving though he was on the
Speaker 1: other I looked at him. He looked at that. That
Speaker 1: was the first time we ever met each other.
Speaker 7: Kid.
Speaker 1: So I came outside and I said, Yo, what up.
Speaker 1: He's like, YO, what up? And then we started talking.
Speaker 1: I said yo. I was like, Yo, that was y'all.
Speaker 1: That power play y'all said y'all. I never knew why
Speaker 1: y'all had beef, he said, yo. Then he started explaining
Speaker 1: it and I was like why. I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: that was y'all. I was like, Yo, that's that's it
Speaker 1: was crazy. It just fucked my head up. The bridges
Speaker 1: over was the original stand yep, great analogy. Then so
Speaker 1: after that we spoke, and then after that we got
Speaker 1: pretty cool. And then one day he called me and said, Yo,
Speaker 1: yots do album. I didn't really talk to him until
Speaker 1: like it had to be like two thousand. Damn. I
Speaker 1: wasn't fucking with them at all. I appreciate, at least
Speaker 1: as a as a fan, that it didn't escalate further.
Speaker 1: Whereas you know, that seems to be the ongoing narrative
Speaker 1: for anything post ninety five ninety six hip hop, no doubt,
Speaker 1: But I mean, was it just that that wasn't even
Speaker 1: an option? Or were you careful and where you went?
Speaker 1: Like I'm not going I mean, I wasn't the one
Speaker 1: to go hang out in the Bronx at two in
Speaker 1: the morning, you know what I'm saying with that shit
Speaker 1: going on. But but I wasn't a fever. I was
Speaker 1: in the disco fever with magic a lot and nothing
Speaker 1: that nothing ever happened to me. I used to be
Speaker 1: there all the time in the Bronx, You get what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So did you not club a lot? But
Speaker 1: would you go to very like do you have Latin
Speaker 1: Quarter stories or or the rooftop or Yeah, I would go.
Speaker 1: I would go check it out. I would check it out.
Speaker 1: What was your spot in New York too? I used
Speaker 1: to like Latin Quarter back in the day. I used
Speaker 1: to like Latin Quarter was the ship? Would you go
Speaker 1: just to testing? I would go check it out? Union Square?
Speaker 1: I used to like Union Square. The last show at
Speaker 1: Union Square was me and Shan and then the place
Speaker 1: got shut down after that, never to open again. Really
Speaker 1: turned into so you go to Latin Quarter even though
Speaker 1: that was Red's home. Yeah, I would go there, you know,
Speaker 1: just stop over there and see what's going on? Because
Speaker 1: he wasn't playing at night. Okay, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: He would be like maybe on Saturday night he would
Speaker 1: be there. Yeah. So for you, what's the typical night
Speaker 1: at Latin Quarter like which I would go through see
Speaker 1: the ball busters move out their way. It was like
Speaker 1: a cruel people like that. You gotta think about. That's
Speaker 1: the time of the when everybody was wild and in
Speaker 1: New York, say, it's like fifty people will walk around
Speaker 1: and just terrorize the block and you weren't noyed at all.
Speaker 1: I would step back. I would always step back, and
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people would know who I am, like, Yo,
Speaker 1: what I mom? And just give me that. I never
Speaker 1: had problems like that. Never, Never in the streets out here. Never.
Speaker 1: I don't be having because I don't. I don't present
Speaker 1: that type of energy, you know what I mean. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't got no attitude. I'm good with everybody.
Speaker 1: I'm giving slapping people DAPs, taking my pictures. You know,
Speaker 1: people always got loved when they see me. Most people's
Speaker 1: producers are doing something and they you know, in mind
Speaker 1: what I did, Yo, Yo, thank you for so and so.
Speaker 1: Thank you for at wherever I go. I never got
Speaker 1: to be I don't. I don't be having beef like
Speaker 1: that because I don't, you know, it's just not like that.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't carry that type of energy. So
Speaker 1: how would you test a record, Like if you had
Speaker 1: an example of like a record you had that you
Speaker 1: wanted the DJ, like, would you use those clubs to
Speaker 1: test to see? Oh? Yeah, that would. I'll see what
Speaker 1: they're playing, see what's hot, see what they fucking with
Speaker 1: seeing you know, see what you know, see what they're playing.
Speaker 1: What was your greatest story reaction of like this is
Speaker 1: just gonna work? Like, oh, when I used to see that,
Speaker 1: already knew public Ending was public Enemy was a go
Speaker 1: because anytime Public Enemy music would play in any of
Speaker 1: those clubs back in the day, regardless of what Magic said,
Speaker 1: they ship was popping. But I'm in for your records.
Speaker 1: Oh for me, nobody beats the biz. Nobody the biz
Speaker 1: was big for me. Something for the radio was extra
Speaker 1: big for me. Wow, Yeah, tell me about that record
Speaker 1: preps ever find out like, what's that to me? Is
Speaker 1: one of the most that that's that's a genius moment
Speaker 1: in sampling. Yeah, for you one day. Yeah, one day
Speaker 1: I was watching the movie and I just saw it.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, that was dope, and I had
Speaker 1: the v back and I just went straight to their
Speaker 1: car with the VHS and the prince. Ever did they
Speaker 1: even get wise to it? They cleared it from me
Speaker 1: one days. Label mats. You don't get what I said,
Speaker 1: So one day I'll leave it. I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 1: Never mind what I'm saying. Hold up, I'm saying that
Speaker 1: they used it, and they used it in something and
Speaker 1: cleared it back from me. Didn't know where it came from.
Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying this a little bit, all right.
Speaker 1: They used something for the radio and cleared it with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah wait I hmm, okay, I'm gonna play visit someone
Speaker 1: with radio and I gotta figure out what he just
Speaker 1: dropped in my lat This is benchmarky something for the radio.
Speaker 1: Sho yo, stop playing around bringing the baby. Okay. So
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, like, Under the Chair Moon
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite b C films of all time.
Speaker 1: Boss Bill can the classic follow up The Purple Ring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a classic. I think it is too.
Speaker 1: It is it is, even though you know critics are
Speaker 1: it's out of it, you don't like it. I did
Speaker 1: not like Under the Chair moan. But well, no, no,
Speaker 1: let me say this. It is a classic film. It's
Speaker 1: a classic but for all the all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 4: No, but it is classic.
Speaker 1: It is classic. I actually went to the movies to
Speaker 1: see that. Wow. I did too. I cut Church Is Wow. Yes,
Speaker 1: and coming after Proper Rain, it was just like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck is this? He's expanding expanding, So are you
Speaker 1: allowed to tell the meta story of it or no?
Speaker 1: We'll just leave it at that. Okay. I don't know
Speaker 1: if the remix ever came out, but I know one
Speaker 1: day I was approached by they team to clear that
Speaker 1: for a remix that they were doing, and they used
Speaker 1: something for the radio that is the most mind blowing
Speaker 1: awesome hisst story. Well, it's kind of like the J
Speaker 1: Swift remix of Let It Go, Let It Go resamples
Speaker 1: Dorothy Parker. Yeah, but does he cleared himself? He has
Speaker 1: to clear it? I don't know, Like, does Prince have
Speaker 1: to clear a print sample on his own record? That's
Speaker 1: I mean, probably through that publishing if it's a different publisher.
Speaker 1: Because I got a lot of titles and a different
Speaker 1: different administrators for different songs. So if I have a
Speaker 1: different administrator for something, I probably would have to clear
Speaker 1: it with the other side. Wow, So can you measure
Speaker 1: not cleaning your own temple?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Getting sued by yourself? So i'msuing myself so real quick
Speaker 1: for for raw yes to get that, to get that
Speaker 1: naked drum break, right? Am I assuming that you went
Speaker 1: to the UK to pick up the twelve inch of
Speaker 1: Bobby Birds, I'm coming to get that because that wasn't
Speaker 1: in circulation at that point. So you would like, was
Speaker 1: this from your your your your traveling to Europe? And like,
Speaker 1: what is your digging game like? As far as at
Speaker 1: that point I was, I was digging kind of hard
Speaker 1: because I was, you know, ahead of everybody and trying
Speaker 1: to stay ahead of a body when it came to
Speaker 1: these kicks and snares I want to have, you know.
Speaker 1: But the funny thing is the more I Doug, the
Speaker 1: more I realized that in Peace to President was the
Speaker 1: ship I could never I couldn't never stop. Yes, it
Speaker 1: was hard to find ship that that top that one,
Speaker 1: and you know that made the most hits. So you know,
Speaker 1: I would go to every country. I would go to.
Speaker 1: Of course, I would go raide the record stores and
Speaker 1: look for certain artists and certain things, you know, certain situations.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I used to always do that, but then after a while,
Speaker 1: you know, I would. I'm the type of guy like this,
Speaker 1: I love them and leave them dukes. I sample him
Speaker 1: and and and once I put it down, I could
Speaker 1: lose the record. Maybe I don't have it no more.
Speaker 1: I sample it, and it could be there once I
Speaker 1: got it in digital form, I might lose the wax
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know what I'm saying. I'm kind of
Speaker 1: like that, once I sample it for me, I know,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of a lot of times, like
Speaker 1: like those original and Peace to President records that I sample.
Speaker 1: I don't know what those forty five is that, dude.
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of my records, Like I
Speaker 1: got like a place full of records that I don't
Speaker 1: I don't keep up with. Where what is? You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know this is the section for that. I
Speaker 1: don't really do that. I just need somebody to start
Speaker 1: start doing that, because there's cats like me and maybe
Speaker 1: about fifty other cats there are now just in the present,
Speaker 1: you know, preserving history business of you know, I'm certain
Speaker 1: that wherever that forty five is and your storage been
Speaker 1: or whatever like that is, I got it. And but
Speaker 1: the bottom beat to the Symphony on drums, that that
Speaker 1: was an Aaron Fuchs hookup too. I don't even know
Speaker 1: what the hell at is. That's a crazy beat. I
Speaker 1: was always trying to figure out how you had access
Speaker 1: to all these rare forty fives that I will be
Speaker 1: charged forty dollars, fifty dollars sixty seventy eighty ninety dollars
Speaker 1: going to Japan to get you know, there they'll sell
Speaker 1: you synthetic substitution forty five for like two hundred bucks.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you have these records. So yeah, he
Speaker 1: gave he gave me a lot, and he gave me
Speaker 1: substitution back in the day too, got that on forty
Speaker 1: forty five. All right, so we got time to talk
Speaker 1: about Uncleel. Yeah, I always got Yeah, give us the story,
Speaker 1: like how I mean, at this point, you have the
Speaker 1: world in your hands. You you you came with rock Sand,
Speaker 1: you came with Shan, you came with Caine, He came
Speaker 1: with Master as he came with Kraigg. Then I left
Speaker 1: the Juice Crew. That's right, you went to uptown for
Speaker 1: a second. That's right. I had left the Juice Crew
Speaker 1: because how how it was like at that point, I
Speaker 1: got tired of it. I was like, Dukes, man, I
Speaker 1: did all this, Yo, I made like four albums this year.
Speaker 1: I only made two hundred thousand dollars. I was a
Speaker 1: staff producer with Cold Chilling, and I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: I only made I made four albums that year, and
Speaker 1: I was making two hundred thousand dollars a year. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, Dukes, I could make one album and get
Speaker 1: three fifty four hundred. You get what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: I was like, that was it. After I did those
Speaker 1: four albums, I broke out. So that was what. You
Speaker 1: didn't really do none of this, I'm gonna say you
Speaker 1: never did no one sophomore. Let me tell you what
Speaker 1: I did. To be honest with Cold Chilling, our doctor
Speaker 1: dre them, I just walked away. I was like, y'all
Speaker 1: can have this, y'all do this go ahead? Was a
Speaker 1: row at that point, I mean, there wasn't. It wasn't nothing,
Speaker 1: nothing crazy like that. It's just that I figured I
Speaker 1: could make more money over here. So I took that
Speaker 1: took Tragedy, Craig g and we went we went our way,
Speaker 1: and then I was working with Heavy D. I had
Speaker 1: hits with Heavy D that started toppling what I was
Speaker 1: doing over there. You get what I'm saying. I made
Speaker 1: a lot of good records at Cold Chill, and we
Speaker 1: had a lot of good a lot of good historical
Speaker 1: records Chilling. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you kind of built that.
Speaker 1: But those are not my most successful records in my catalog.
Speaker 1: I get it. But from a from a sentimental standpoint,
Speaker 1: we're always going to think, oh, raw, aproach the rich,
Speaker 1: all that stuff, you know, But those are not the
Speaker 1: ones you know those are those are great records, but
Speaker 1: those are out my grossing records that I could live
Speaker 1: off of to this day. I feel you understand. So
Speaker 1: it's a difference. You know, I can't retire off that
Speaker 1: ship unless somebody sample it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Before before you get into ll right, Okay, you work
Speaker 1: with Tragedy when he was twelve, and then when he
Speaker 1: changed to Intelligent Hitler, right that that I think that
Speaker 1: Intelligent Hitler record is probably one of your most slept
Speaker 1: on the rest of the president. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: that's come out party. That was my come out party. Bro,
Speaker 1: that was my come out party where I'm away from
Speaker 1: cold chilling. I'm doing what the funk I want right
Speaker 1: now I got I got this militant black dude that's
Speaker 1: one of throws fists up and pump the pump the issue.
Speaker 1: Let's go black and proud. Rest the president? What when
Speaker 1: you made that beat like that? To me was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the President? Yeah, that and and intelligence was due? What
Speaker 1: sample was that? What sample is that we remade that?
Speaker 1: We remade that for game period and didn't That's just
Speaker 1: I put it on the shelf. But that was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite Marley mal Piano lines. I can't, I can't,
Speaker 1: I can't reveal it. Come on, man, I could reveal it.
Speaker 1: I can't reveal it, not even in private, not on
Speaker 1: the air. But but but you know you, I think
Speaker 1: that's when I first left, you know, I started working
Speaker 1: with Heavy and I went to uptowns. They loved me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did girls, they loved me. I did overweight lovers
Speaker 1: in the house. I worked on what else weight loves
Speaker 1: and the house girls they love me. Mister big stuff,
Speaker 1: you get what you worked on that too. I was
Speaker 1: part of it. So and then the Uptown's kicking it.
Speaker 1: So so that's when id I left the Juice. I
Speaker 1: broke out. I was like, I'm not fucking I'm done.
Speaker 1: I did enough that I'm gonna do. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I didn't want to. I don't want to
Speaker 1: even you know. I just went over there and started
Speaker 1: working with them. So started developing heavy with the Biz
Speaker 1: and Caine and and got with Teddy Riley. Yeah. Can't
Speaker 1: out with Teddy, I know, but I get a job
Speaker 1: done with jam Like I like that. That was a
Speaker 1: good joint.
Speaker 2: He was cool.
Speaker 1: I mean it was. It was good, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't and it wasn't what people expected to hear
Speaker 1: from him at that point. I know, but I always
Speaker 1: considered side to its aid as the deep voice, the
Speaker 1: dark gable and more this. You know, I wish you
Speaker 1: because that that was leading to taste of chocolate. It
Speaker 1: was just like, okay, Verry White and Alison Williams. He
Speaker 1: left about no wrong with That's what I'm saying. Barry White, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: are you doing this to actually wait a minute, know
Speaker 1: you did the day your mind I did t J Swan.
Speaker 1: We didn't talk about we gotta talk about TJ Swan.
Speaker 1: We're and who, well, who TJ Swan? Who is the
Speaker 1: TJ t J Swan was brought on? Because I see
Speaker 1: t J Swan. It's not there's some another artist with
Speaker 1: t J Swan that is not the singing t J Swan. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a few. It's like it was a t
Speaker 1: J Swan before him. It was like another dude rhyming.
Speaker 1: Then it was a singing guy. It was. It was
Speaker 1: it was somebody that made a record before even he made.
Speaker 1: You know, I thought his record was going to come out.
Speaker 1: It was. It was supposed he was. He was signed
Speaker 1: to Arista a side deal, Davis. Let me tell you something.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you to be honest. Stop stopping. There
Speaker 1: was supposed to be a t J Swan and Whitney.
Speaker 7: Do it.
Speaker 1: You I'm not lying t J and Whitney. Yo, oh god, you.
Speaker 4: Want to know.
Speaker 3: Like the.
Speaker 1: Let me play? Let me wait, is he still gonna
Speaker 1: let me lonely? Lord Jesus christ One is the best
Speaker 1: worst singer ever? Wait wait, I gotta find I gotta
Speaker 1: let me play. Let me Lone say your speech. She
Speaker 1: told me her name gave him nothing And when I stepped,
Speaker 1: she got a better call.
Speaker 4: It took about a month.
Speaker 1: She was finally mom.
Speaker 4: Everything was going smooth.
Speaker 1: We were doing fine.
Speaker 4: After a while. It wasn't a thing. We either holding
Speaker 4: hands and she was under my wing. She wings, but
Speaker 4: in my ear, I'm the one and coolie.
Speaker 1: But she framed with another man and left me.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: Marvel's Marlin Williams, one of my idols, the reason why
Speaker 1: I even have nineteen jobs today, has.
Speaker 7: Just sold me.
Speaker 1: That TJ. Swan, the Loneius Jerome Swann was about to
Speaker 1: record with Whitney. For to be honest, it was. It
Speaker 1: was like a deal that Clive was like, your Clod
Speaker 1: was like, yo, I want TJ Swan because because TJ
Speaker 1: Swan was on all these all these street songs. We
Speaker 1: get what I'm saying, make the music with your mouth, piz.
Speaker 1: Nobody beats the biz. And I think they wanted some
Speaker 1: of that. They wanted some of that. You get what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, right, because they started their division in the
Speaker 1: eighty eight with Eddie Murphy's brother, Yeah I did. That
Speaker 1: was relative.
Speaker 6: Right, So you think it was Whitney to put the
Speaker 6: knicks on.
Speaker 1: It, like no, no, no, no, no, no, it's something
Speaker 1: happened with Cold Chilling where he was going to put
Speaker 1: put out Swan and then Cole came from somebody at
Speaker 1: Cold Chilling and he didn't want to be involved with
Speaker 1: going back and forth. So he's like, yo, he's going
Speaker 1: to pass on this one. But you know, you know
Speaker 1: that's that's basically what it was. We're here with Malle
Speaker 1: mal Uh talking about the career that could have been
Speaker 1: the great t J Swan, So we kind of joke
Speaker 1: about how on the show Unsung, like hip hop is
Speaker 1: always the villain, like for a lot of these soul
Speaker 1: bhoops and then hip hop came and destroyed, you know,
Speaker 1: their career. But New Jack Swing is slowly coming around
Speaker 1: the corner and is sort of edging traditional hip hop
Speaker 1: as the new choice or whatever, Like, how are you
Speaker 1: adjusting it to it? Because now I'm starting to hear
Speaker 1: like at least on live on stage and some of
Speaker 1: the stuff that the bumpy basslines, that that that fresh
Speaker 1: Prince baseline right right right right, So how are you
Speaker 1: adjusting to To be honest, I mean I accept the
Speaker 1: New Jacks Swing when it came in because I really
Speaker 1: admired what Teddy was doing back then, because one thing
Speaker 1: I could tell you about Teddy, he was the guy
Speaker 1: that was taking hip hop sounds and putting it to
Speaker 1: R and B and key right, And I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: that's kind of dope, that's like different. So I started
Speaker 1: I started doing some remixes like that too, kind of
Speaker 1: like you know, I've produced the feel a few songs
Speaker 1: with a little bouncy be baseline round Away Girl and
Speaker 1: one of those little baselines. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So I kind of made a few joins. It's like
Speaker 1: that too, because you believe me, I used that that
Speaker 1: Yamaha that I was going to ask, what is what
Speaker 1: is your keyboard choice? Like what is back then? That
Speaker 1: was a Yamaha t Z, a small little module that
Speaker 1: the base base. Anybody was using that one just before.
Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on this before we forgot because
Speaker 1: I think like no one ever talks about these guys.
Speaker 1: The Flex. Oh yes, the Flex were the guys are
Speaker 1: singing on Darren Lighty around the Way Girl. How do
Speaker 1: you know this? I was waiting for that album to
Speaker 1: come out after and the Flex also had do you
Speaker 1: know this? Mama lecked you out on Around the Way search.
Speaker 1: Now let me read the liner notes, But let me
Speaker 1: explain what happened to them after this? Okay who They
Speaker 1: became very very big after Around the Way girl. But
Speaker 1: you may not know you're about to drop you. I'm
Speaker 1: about to drop a bomb. Let me get it ready.
Speaker 1: They they produced Jehen, they produced Jahen. So all the
Speaker 1: backgrounds is one of the guys. Cliff Lighty, he does
Speaker 1: all Johann's backgrounds. Could it beat it? Every Jahan background?
Speaker 1: Cliff Lighty is doing all right. Chris his brother, his brother,
Speaker 1: that's the different set of Lighties. His brother Darren produces
Speaker 1: in touch due to hight Wow. Yes. And then what
Speaker 1: else did they do? They did? They did? Like it
Speaker 1: was so many records they did. They did? What else? Oh?
Speaker 1: And then Eric from the group became in Black Street.
Speaker 1: Oh Eric, Wow. I'm trying to tell you. So all
Speaker 1: of them, all of them did very very well after
Speaker 1: Around Away Girl. That was kind of like an intro
Speaker 1: for them. But you know, Cliff did of course. I
Speaker 1: walked in the sand Mash one day. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of visitings. I walked into sam Ash one day. I
Speaker 1: was looking at a keyboard. The salesman was showing me
Speaker 1: on the keyboard, say he it does this, it does this,
Speaker 1: boom boom, it does this. He made a beat right.
Speaker 1: FRAME was like, oh, that ship is hot. Give me
Speaker 1: two of those, right, I get it home. I can't
Speaker 1: do nothing. I go back to the store. Yo, my man,
Speaker 1: I can't do none of that. He's like, Yo, it's
Speaker 1: so easy.
Speaker 4: He did it.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, hold up, man, how much you
Speaker 1: making him?
Speaker 2: Bro?
Speaker 1: That was Darren Lighty, straight up changing people's lives. How
Speaker 1: much you're working. How much you get up here in
Speaker 1: sam Mash Because I could double that, y'all. He quit
Speaker 1: that day, came up to the house, It hits, and
Speaker 1: that was it. We was good and we started and
Speaker 1: we started making on the spot and he showed me.
Speaker 1: He became my programmer. And then into the picture now
Speaker 1: ll I was he was. I was doing my radio
Speaker 1: show and he's promoting Walking with the Panther And you know,
Speaker 1: I knew wasn't the greatest album for him, but I
Speaker 1: still was giving them crops. I still giving them problem.
Speaker 1: Look it came out dropping them and like it was,
Speaker 1: it was joint. Jingling was on. I didn't like.
Speaker 2: I like, I didn't like.
Speaker 1: That's what got me on. I said, yo, let me
Speaker 1: remix that joint. When you said running niggas over like
Speaker 1: reading that, Trucker said, oh yeah, said okay, and then
Speaker 1: Brian vocals that was Jim Kelly's karate. Yeah, that was like, bro,
Speaker 1: you didn't like that dropping them Nitro? Uh what else?
Speaker 1: I like the joint on side to know, like squad
Speaker 1: had four good joints on that. You didn't like Big
Speaker 1: four with your drums. Yes you said four right, like
Speaker 1: twenty songs on it. Yeah, it did, you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know what I and it had your my heart
Speaker 1: on it in two different worlds. Now, look here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, all right, And that wasn't TJ Swan
Speaker 1: walking with the panther is sentimental to me. I just
Speaker 1: graduated high school. It just came out. I was curious
Speaker 1: to figure out if LLLL was going to graduate to
Speaker 1: break beat. So the fact that dropping him used the
Speaker 1: meters joining I was like, okay, he's he's because LL
Speaker 1: is always like an indicator for well he jumped to
Speaker 1: that next level or not, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And so I don't know. Maybe it was the fact
Speaker 1: that I just graduated high school, which was like it
Speaker 1: is I like a lot of shitty music too when
Speaker 1: I was a teenager. It's okay, yeah, but he was,
Speaker 1: but he was definitely promoted. I like the Jingling Baby.
Speaker 1: I didn't like that. Like that remix was like.
Speaker 6: Am I assuming? I'm just going to ask the one
Speaker 6: that I'm used to is the may.
Speaker 1: One in the videos? Right, he says, dance to the
Speaker 1: remixing glove Yeah, with the walking into Sunshie And so
Speaker 1: you remixed it. They gave me a shot. They gave
Speaker 1: me a shot to remix that, and you know, we
Speaker 1: remixed it and it came out pretty well, did well.
Speaker 1: And then we went in the studio kind of on
Speaker 1: our own and started making an album without authorready from
Speaker 1: the station, I mean, from his label. We just started
Speaker 1: making come to the crib, let's make some joints. Boom,
Speaker 1: We like five in four and six in seven and
Speaker 1: then boom boom. Actually, you know, we bring it to
Speaker 1: Russell and he heard booming systems and that was it. Boom.
Speaker 1: You're like, yo, yo, y'all want to do an album, Yo,
Speaker 1: it's done already. Why'd you do two versus a booming system?
Speaker 1: Because we needed an edited version and we need one
Speaker 1: for one was for radio. I mean, the in Vogue
Speaker 1: version was the version that I heard that one. Okay,
Speaker 1: I heard that first on radio, and then when I
Speaker 1: brought the remix, I heard the like they're both on
Speaker 1: the on the single, they were on a single. Yeah,
Speaker 1: both mixes were on a single, but on the album
Speaker 1: it was a different one. See Philly radio just played
Speaker 1: the in Vogue version, right, So when I brought the record,
Speaker 1: I was ready for that and I heard the baseline.
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a minute, it's changed. But I
Speaker 1: actually liked the Albun version better now, but I always
Speaker 1: wanted to know, like, yes, I didn't want it to
Speaker 1: be because we came. We made Booming System. It was
Speaker 1: straight off of in Vogue. It was straight off of
Speaker 1: in Vogue. You just loot it. Yeah, I just looped
Speaker 1: it up and let them go. But then we put
Speaker 1: the record out and but the guys from in Vogue,
Speaker 1: the producers, they was like, yeah, we're gonna, so you
Speaker 1: go ahead, bro, we're gonna. But was that an infuse trap?
Speaker 1: It wasn't take them. But to be honest, that's one
Speaker 1: thing I can say about them. Back in them days,
Speaker 1: they was like, go ahead, bro, that's a banger. They
Speaker 1: was like, yo, you got it. I was like really.
Speaker 1: They was like they just gave it up. They saw
Speaker 1: the vision because they knew right would make their ship
Speaker 1: right even more official, right right. So they didn't even
Speaker 1: go at me. It's like your go ahead, little brother,
Speaker 1: young brother, go ahead, bro. They did me like that,
Speaker 1: and that was real good. They're like the only cast
Speaker 1: that ever didgil Boy. There's like, go ahead, little brother,
Speaker 1: do your thing. Man. I was like, whoa, okay, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna fuck with you with that. Wow, just just
Speaker 1: do this remix for us. Then they hit me with
Speaker 1: the oh we want you to remix hold On? Did
Speaker 1: you Yeah? I remixed out Yeah, so that's solid. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it was like it was like a trade off.
Speaker 1: They didn't even bother me. I was like, wow, so
Speaker 1: did you feel pressure because at that point I know
Speaker 1: that like Ll got booed at the Apollo and you know,
Speaker 1: it was a new generation and now his fate was
Speaker 1: in your hands. I felt no pressure with them because
Speaker 1: I already knew. I knew what I could do for
Speaker 1: l I think that everything I've done to cold chilling
Speaker 1: with cold Chilling with Heavy to up that point got
Speaker 1: me ready to get that Grammy with L. You get
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You know, it's kind of like I
Speaker 1: was in training. I was in training all my life,
Speaker 1: sparring and getting up to the building myself in the
Speaker 1: ranks to get with LLL and get that real shot.
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying. Because by the time we
Speaker 1: did that, you know, it was great for his career
Speaker 1: and great for my career.
Speaker 7: What is the right to now see LLL be the
Speaker 7: ambassador for the Grammys Because here we are, like years later,
Speaker 7: and he is the man.
Speaker 6: He's basically the spokesperson.
Speaker 1: Of course. Believe me, I fox with him all the time.
Speaker 1: Believe me, when he do these shows, I'm calling his
Speaker 1: ass before he hit that stage, and we always talking
Speaker 1: and I'm fucking with him. We laughing like a fuck.
Speaker 1: It's my dude. I fox with him, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Before he do most of those shows, he
Speaker 1: always get a call for me, and we you know,
Speaker 1: I know they tape them early, So I catch him
Speaker 1: in the morning and fuck with him, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, And we'd be laughing our ass off, and
Speaker 1: he go over there and I tell him and the
Speaker 1: next day I called me yo, Yo, Yeah, this was
Speaker 1: so and so I'm proud of you because I'm proud
Speaker 1: of that dude, man, real proud of it was the
Speaker 1: folklore of his process, real where he like had to
Speaker 1: go back to his grandmom's basement and and right and
Speaker 1: getting that mood. And yeah, he lived that much. He
Speaker 1: still had that Queen's residence where I believe he still
Speaker 1: they still own that residence there. But when we did,
Speaker 1: Mama said, knock you out. He literally came and lived
Speaker 1: at my house. He was that serious. But did he
Speaker 1: feel like I have something to prove? I'm sure he did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he had a lot to prove after walking with the pant.
Speaker 1: Did he feel like a man like I still got
Speaker 1: to come with it because because it's still yielded hits
Speaker 1: like Big Ol'd but was still getting played on. I
Speaker 1: forgot that. But he wasn't joined. I think loved. I think,
Speaker 1: to be honest, he knew what he wanted, you get him.
Speaker 1: He wanted the respect and he knew what he wanted.
Speaker 1: He came and told me, He's like, yo, you know,
Speaker 1: he started telling me the story.
Speaker 8: Yo.
Speaker 1: When I first heard Kane, I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: When I first heard someone so I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. He's like, Yo, how could I do this?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, yo, come on, you give what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Prep gave him the prep give what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And we went in there and just tore niggas down.
Speaker 1: At least give me the story of like making that record.
Speaker 1: Did you know it was monumental or was it just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: here's another beat. I kind of felt that in a
Speaker 1: way what it is because Bobcat, you know DJ Bobcat.
Speaker 1: You know, he had he had the sample, he had this, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he had to kind of he had he had the
Speaker 1: he had it sampled up on a disc, and you know,
Speaker 1: he was going through sounds and he was playing that
Speaker 1: and then I just added a drum to it, kind
Speaker 1: of filtered it, flipped it and and you know, we
Speaker 1: let and then I let my you know, I let
Speaker 1: my dude. You know, sometimes what has started happening with
Speaker 1: me after awhile I started, I started not want to
Speaker 1: record people. Vocals sound familiar. I hate recording. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes you know I started after a while, I want
Speaker 1: to make the beats, but I can't. I can't stomach
Speaker 1: sitting here doing the vocals too much so so only
Speaker 1: someone that knows the pain. Yeah, so so so I
Speaker 1: said that day, I said to my engineer, just record
Speaker 1: ll vocals, you know, recorded right, And I stood back
Speaker 1: and he was easily wind and then pressed play and
Speaker 1: record and but LLL didn't know what was going and
Speaker 1: he said, come on, man, and then the beat dropped,
Speaker 1: and I was like, so that was real. That wasn't
Speaker 1: getting annoyed. That was really him screaming at the engineer.
Speaker 1: Poor engineers. I was like a hip hop engineer start with,
Speaker 1: start with all the abuse that engineers have to take
Speaker 1: it the rappers and management. I had a question about, uh,
Speaker 1: to knock you out milky cereals, not milky cereal, mister
Speaker 1: good Ball, the little snippet. Nah no, I'm saying, you
Speaker 1: happen to me, happen yo. It's so funny. He's just
Speaker 1: we just decided to give it out a crazy intro.
Speaker 1: He just said that just to bug out. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's just give it a crazy intro. And Murder Graham
Speaker 1: was just yeah, Murder Graham was his little story about.
Speaker 1: But I've been like, was it supposed to be live? Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be live. We kind of made that
Speaker 1: up to be live put the crowd in the back.
Speaker 1: But I think they tried to sue us for using
Speaker 1: the name rap Mania. Things coming out everywhere? Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's coming out of every everywhere. I'm like, come on, really,
Speaker 1: do anybody have a copy of rap Mania? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: think he tried to sue us. I've been trying to
Speaker 1: find that. That's crazy. It was a pay per view
Speaker 1: concert where Redman went out of his mind with the
Speaker 1: on the monitor. Man, I not this was pre this
Speaker 1: we read Yeah, this was like ninety You gotta do
Speaker 1: some research. Somebody finding rap Mania.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I remember because I remember asking my parents
Speaker 1: to get it on pay per view and they were
Speaker 1: like no. And that's why we put Live at rat
Speaker 1: Mania on it because he's trying to act like he
Speaker 1: was on rat Mania. Okay, okay, So that cheesy rat
Speaker 1: blues was it was. It was his story talking about
Speaker 1: how they treated him after walking with the panther. Cheesy
Speaker 1: rat You ain't all that. It just hit me. He
Speaker 1: did to the Break of Dawn as well. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that makes number five like handle the whole way you are?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Who else was got this? Another? He got hammer and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: or I know about Iced Tea and Ham, but I
Speaker 1: didn't know that Hammer and him had yeah situation, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was he had beef with Hammer Iced
Speaker 1: Tea and he went at all three of them onto
Speaker 1: the Break of Dawn. Did not know that break And
Speaker 1: by the time ninety one, like Mod was kind of
Speaker 1: I mean that was it was over much because New
Speaker 1: Jack was kind of like going where it was going,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And and a lot of
Speaker 1: these tracks was kind of he was on that New
Speaker 1: Jackson hard Yeah, all New Jack track you Rise and
Speaker 1: Shine go see the Doctor earlier? Ain't that you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Okay? But he was always lyrical though,
Speaker 1: who do you think in the battle wise we think
Speaker 1: of rock mod l what do you think lyrically? Yeah,
Speaker 1: did you like Let's Go? I like let's go. I
Speaker 1: like let's go. We we did the lant.
Speaker 4: Lazy it was.
Speaker 1: So much a liter ration. Yeah, no, I like Let's go.
Speaker 1: But lyrically I think that was like for me, like
Speaker 1: watching the l and MO d Like, I always respect
Speaker 1: the mod because he really was the only guy from
Speaker 1: like the original like original original, the results. He's the
Speaker 1: only one that survived you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: I always respected him. I just think it was a
Speaker 1: time where it was a thing where it was really
Speaker 1: like you were saying earlier maw like the old line
Speaker 1: versus the new line, and to me like mo d
Speaker 1: had lyrics, but llll could take your shirt off and nigga,
Speaker 1: it didn't matter no more, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So it was like it was just kind of he
Speaker 1: was I think he was as a lyricist, mod was dope,
Speaker 1: but he was just kind of his time had passed
Speaker 1: at that point. I think of the two LL responses,
Speaker 1: I mean, to the Break of Dawn was my favorite.
Speaker 1: But again I'm a music guy, so no, I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I like to the Break because cool. It was like
Speaker 1: it was like it was either cool al or like
Speaker 1: Holland jet so and always like just the cool. How
Speaker 1: did you get cool l delivery on that song instead
Speaker 1: of his house I had? I told him, And we
Speaker 1: can't scream no more. Basically, we can't. We can't be
Speaker 1: we can't be angry on records because you gotta take
Speaker 1: a different approach. You gotta, you gotta instead of screaming
Speaker 1: at him, you gotta talk to him, and that's what
Speaker 1: we did, kind of like with Jingling. Right, that's when
Speaker 1: I told him, I like, yo, we can't. Oh. He
Speaker 1: wanted to be super aggressive, right, he wanted to do
Speaker 1: his vocals over the other way, kind of like the
Speaker 1: first ones. Uncle. I was like, no, no, no, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna We're not gonna really do that at this time.
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's like, you know, it's actually interesting, you said,
Speaker 1: because I first heard the biggest change in the L's
Speaker 1: voice the first time I heard booming system. It sounded
Speaker 1: like a completely I didn't even know it was I
Speaker 1: didn't know it was them. It just came on. I
Speaker 1: was like, who the fuck is this? And yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of effects on the voice too.
Speaker 1: So let me ask because there's always the end to
Speaker 1: the yang, let's jump three years later, fourteen shots of
Speaker 1: the Dome. Okay, no, god no, because it was all
Speaker 1: like I remember that being the first review in the
Speaker 1: source that had consequences to it, and Russell was not
Speaker 1: having that and you know, the original mind Squad review
Speaker 1: like the first time that their record review could influence
Speaker 1: their reader and it causing a response or maybe a
Speaker 1: retaliation or not for someone in hip hop was that
Speaker 1: Walking with the Panther record. So what was different about
Speaker 1: the process of fourteen Shots in the Doom? Then Mama
Speaker 1: said knock you out because big, big, big difference. It
Speaker 1: should have been it's supposed to be the follow up
Speaker 1: to should have been Victory Last, Right, But guess what.
Speaker 1: Guess who started acting around that time. Guess Michael J No, No,
Speaker 1: guess who went to go do the Toy in the
Speaker 1: middle of my project? Yeah? The Toys was uh Robin
Speaker 1: Willis right, right, So that's kind of what happened with
Speaker 1: that project. In the middle of the project, we in
Speaker 1: the zone, was in the zone. Next thing, you know,
Speaker 1: we all gotta go wait for nine months to go
Speaker 1: do a movie. I'm like, dukes, We're in the middle
Speaker 1: of an album.
Speaker 4: M mm.
Speaker 1: So how long did Mama said knock you out? Take
Speaker 1: to record the album? Like two weeks or some ship
Speaker 1: and then wait, fourteen shots. It was like real quick,
Speaker 1: he just knocked it out. Yeah. We was banging the
Speaker 1: down like knock it out. Yeah, we've been banging them
Speaker 1: down like nothing. I told you. He came and lived
Speaker 1: lived up the crib upstate. So we was making maybe
Speaker 1: two records a day, and then fourteen shots was how long?
Speaker 1: Fourteen shots took about a year and some change to make.
Speaker 1: Because fourteen shots took fourteen months, it's too long because
Speaker 1: now you know, now you know he's coming like a
Speaker 1: week for like a record or two. I'm like, dudes,
Speaker 1: we can't, we can't make records like this. Brouh we
Speaker 1: We wasn't the same formula, so you feel that the
Speaker 1: disrupted rhythm. Yeah, of not bouncing off each other one
Speaker 1: hundred percent, that's exactly what they God, now you're scaring me.
Speaker 1: Stop looking at me like that serious, because he do
Speaker 1: wan he started, you know, making movies and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, we wasn't in the studio as much.
Speaker 1: We wasn't vibing like that. Every wait, everyone listened. Everyone's
Speaker 1: looking at me like, all right, mister nineteen jobs, you
Speaker 1: better dropped everything this next week hearing this story. But
Speaker 1: what it was though, you know, it's like he started
Speaker 1: focusing and you know he did good on that movie
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, you know, that's when
Speaker 1: that's when the movie starts. You know, the movie started
Speaker 1: coming in and the TV and all of that, and
Speaker 1: you know, the album didn't really do well like it
Speaker 1: should have because we I didn't have no real time
Speaker 1: to do it. I ain't have no time. And then
Speaker 1: if I made something six months ago, this ship ain't hot.
Speaker 1: Now you get what I'm saying. When we when we
Speaker 1: made the other album, that ship was so hot off
Speaker 1: the press, Yo, the fucking reels were still warm. You
Speaker 1: get what I'm saying. Did you do Crossroads? I was
Speaker 1: involved with it? I was I was involved. I was
Speaker 1: involved with Yeah, they made him make that. Wait was
Speaker 1: his dad in the picture right now? Or ah.
Speaker 4: Offer?
Speaker 1: Because like the hollering came back, the screaming, you know
Speaker 1: what I say. I'm trying to say, all the screaming
Speaker 1: came back well because he probably felt especially after the
Speaker 1: heat of doing it on MTV unplug You remember the
Speaker 1: years that and he did it at the MTV Awards
Speaker 1: were like a ninety piece band at the MT Yeah,
Speaker 1: hit me twelve times.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was right.
Speaker 1: You probably couldn't tell him nothing. He was back, ah man,
Speaker 1: She telling me that he had to. If he had
Speaker 1: more focus and did it in a concise time period
Speaker 1: of maybe a month or so, it would have been
Speaker 1: a different I believe if there was no toy movie.
Speaker 1: That was a weird.
Speaker 8: And then when I saw that was dudes, that was
Speaker 8: a weird fucking we did we did this for that.
Speaker 8: We blew an album for that.
Speaker 1: Ye, because the movie didn't do well, Wait, let's not
Speaker 1: totally tank it, because I mean back was a classic
Speaker 1: back and Pink Cookies that remix. Though the the movie
Speaker 1: yes crazy like they were, Yes, they were, there was
Speaker 1: there was little there was. There was moments on there,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't enough moments was like stand man stand.
Speaker 1: So after that, like was the feeling the aftermath of well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's when I think the track masters took
Speaker 1: over and then probably took all my beat loops and
Speaker 1: made everybody beats and you know, did what they did.
Speaker 1: But no, I mean you still have Lords. You still
Speaker 1: oh yeah, Lord? Yeah, I moved on them with Lords.
Speaker 1: That's when Lords started popping. Funky child Lords of the
Speaker 1: Underground And how did you meet them? Because they're straight,
Speaker 1: they're Jersey. Well, I had I had an idea of
Speaker 1: a group called Lords of the Underground. I had the name,
Speaker 1: but I was looking for somebody who would be Lords
Speaker 1: of the Underground and I saw them performing. They used
Speaker 1: to be a group called New Jersey funk. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a better name, lords under That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So so when I saw them performed, I said, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the Lords of the Underground. So I was like, look,
Speaker 1: I'm looking to do a group called Lords of the Underground,
Speaker 1: and would you all like to be him? And they're
Speaker 1: like yeah, because they had the energy and everything, and
Speaker 1: you know, and we made a little history with them.
Speaker 1: They did really well.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean well Psycho was that when Psycho came out,
Speaker 1: that was the ninety three beat, the freestyle over wow
Speaker 1: and and Philly Wow. I didn't even know. You know,
Speaker 1: the funny thing about putting out these records, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: the funny thing about dropping all of these records. Reasonally,
Speaker 1: I don't know how well they do. Like you said,
Speaker 1: that was an excellent rhyme and beat and the yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what every cat in Philly wanted. The freestyle wow,
Speaker 1: piece of Philly right right there. That's real talk man. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I felt like you were because that was you
Speaker 1: really not even graduating, but again updating your sound to
Speaker 1: modern hip hop. There you go. And I felt like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: Marley's on a mission. To really like not revenge, but
Speaker 1: like to let y'all know, like I'm still in this
Speaker 1: mom and.
Speaker 8: It is hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard for people to last that long and still
Speaker 1: remain ahead of the curve with that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, no doubt. I think with Psycho, I wanted
Speaker 1: to take it there. I definitely want to take it
Speaker 1: there because I felt there was a new group I
Speaker 1: want to come with, like a whole new sound and
Speaker 1: a whole new look for it. And you know, Psycho
Speaker 1: did what it did, and then you know we had
Speaker 1: to bust him in the head with Chief Rocker and
Speaker 1: all that other ship. Yes, he's the k Death. Where
Speaker 1: are they now? I'm lords they performing? Does one of
Speaker 1: them live in Paris? Oh? Yeah, the DJ lives in Paris,
Speaker 1: do it all? You know, he's running Jersey and Funky.
Speaker 1: He's in North Carolina. And you know they still to
Speaker 1: all over the world. They still every summer they going
Speaker 1: to those festivals. They rocking. They never stopped yet, that's all.
Speaker 1: Like I said, yeah, yeah, they're still going. Just to
Speaker 1: make sure, all right, we're about to wrap up the show,
Speaker 1: because you know, you probably have a nine hour story.
Speaker 1: But I always wanted to know the deal with on
Speaker 1: the reil with not Nice? Where did that come from? Like,
Speaker 1: was that initially supposed to be on Allmatic or yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was originally supposed to be on it.
Speaker 1: And when he was making his album, he you know,
Speaker 1: just after he did a few singles and he was
Speaker 1: working on his album and Biggie was out, and you know,
Speaker 1: he had a concern. He came to visit me. I
Speaker 1: was surprised. One day Nozzle was at my door up state.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, no, I just here. What up? Baby? Were
Speaker 1: talking and we talked, say, yo, I'm ready to work
Speaker 1: on my thing, you know, making my album. He said, Yo,
Speaker 1: he said, you think people still gonna like me? I
Speaker 1: was like, this is for the second album. This is
Speaker 1: like that album. This is one. He was working on
Speaker 1: the album because he had the singles out first and
Speaker 1: the barbecue, you know, the barbecue was out, so he
Speaker 1: was he was hot. But then Biggie came. You get
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, And he came like, yo, you think
Speaker 1: you think they're gonna still love me? I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: do you the nigga that said fucking you? You know,
Speaker 1: he went to Jeff of snuffing Jesus nigga. Nobody's gonna
Speaker 1: ever forget that. I said, matter of fact, let me
Speaker 1: throw let me show you something, let me throw you
Speaker 1: on something. So I threw up on the real beat
Speaker 1: and his man and everybody and is like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: it's aunt adventage though, like, how how long have you
Speaker 1: had that on? That was? I had that. I kind
Speaker 1: of like held that out for him because I already
Speaker 1: knew that nads were murder this ship. Certain beats I
Speaker 1: just hold out for certain artists. I could just hear like,
Speaker 1: I just gotta I gotta beat with action brons, and
Speaker 1: you know I had to beat that I know that
Speaker 1: would fit action. One day I met him, Yo, I
Speaker 1: got something for you. Threw it on him and we
Speaker 1: got a joint. But you know, sometimes sometimes I just
Speaker 1: hold out a beat for something. I feel that to
Speaker 1: go to an artist. So I put him on on
Speaker 1: the reel and and he loved it. He did. People
Speaker 1: will in verse on it, and his people kept telling him, yo,
Speaker 1: that's the ship.
Speaker 2: That's the ship.
Speaker 1: Yo, Yo, God, that's the ship. So time went by,
Speaker 1: the album was almost finished. I'm like, I guess he
Speaker 1: ain't gonna use this ship. Damn. You get what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: So I was like, fuck it. His album came out,
Speaker 1: he didn't use it, so I fucked around and put
Speaker 1: Cormega on it and Screwball, you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So it's like a QB song. So I wasn't trying
Speaker 1: to put it. I was just making a song just
Speaker 1: to you know, just have a tape around the hood
Speaker 1: fucking celebration with all. There was never no tape with
Speaker 1: Mega Damn and Screwball on it. And then I think
Speaker 1: he heard it, and then when he's like, then he
Speaker 1: really didn't want to use it. But then when he
Speaker 1: did the anniversary ten years later for Ill madd, He's like, Yo,
Speaker 1: that was supposed to be on the joint. Let me
Speaker 1: put it on a ten year anniversary version. So that's
Speaker 1: why he went back in, did his vocals back over,
Speaker 1: and then used it as his record. But it was
Speaker 1: originally supposed to be on the first album, I see.
Speaker 1: So that's why he put it on the tenth anniversary
Speaker 1: as a bonus because it was supposed to be there.
Speaker 1: So all the projects that you've done in your career,
Speaker 1: and you've never never stopped making music, like you made
Speaker 1: the collaboration record with Kris One. Finally and all like,
Speaker 1: what is your what is your proudest moment as a creator.
Speaker 1: My proudest moment as a creator is watching TV watching
Speaker 1: myself win a Grammy when they, you know, they mentioned
Speaker 1: our song and they mentioned the artists and who produced it.
Speaker 1: I saw it on TV. I didn't even go because
Speaker 1: I didn't even think we was gonna win what and
Speaker 1: you know, and plus because they wasn't they wasn't presenting
Speaker 1: our award. Yeah right, so they say, and tonight, so
Speaker 1: and so you get what I'm saying. So they put
Speaker 1: us in that. And when I heard that, I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I was home. I was like wow. People started calling
Speaker 1: me yo, you gotta grammy. I was like, oh, ship.
Speaker 1: So that was like one of my proudest moments. It's
Speaker 1: like it all boiled down to that. Where do you
Speaker 1: keep your grammy in the studio? Okay, keep its doorstopping,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, whatever? In the bathroom, toilet paper holder? Greatest
Speaker 1: place to put your grammy? Man, Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 9: Where Bill was in a shelf at my house, in
Speaker 9: the toilet, in the toilet, okay, next to some other ship.
Speaker 1: Dog. I've learned so much about I'm mind blowing, like
Speaker 1: how much I'm still working through the whole sho. Wow.
Speaker 1: I'm never using real high hats again, That's I tell you. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm just talking because we're so you know, we so
Speaker 1: we're just using anything we could, you could how to
Speaker 1: funk the mic, you know, some stuff that didn't work
Speaker 1: as you say this, all right? You remember the group
Speaker 1: Switch used to be on motel if you can, if
Speaker 1: you can listen to their second album, switch To they
Speaker 1: had a single called the Best beat in Town.
Speaker 9: Now that I think of it, the high hat on
Speaker 9: that was them, the Beatles too. For what's it's some
Speaker 9: ship like you can hear them. I have to say, Okay,
Speaker 9: I'm not making that up.
Speaker 1: That's true. No, No, I'm gonna go home. Listen. Revolvers
Speaker 1: gonna beat your ass. So that's fine. Well Marley, Uh well, no,
Speaker 1: we gotta do a reflection, Yes, reflections. Where do we start?
Speaker 1: Font Tikolo?
Speaker 4: Man? What have I learned?
Speaker 1: What do we learn today? Man?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 1: I think I learned, you know, just so much? It
Speaker 1: uh really for me, just hearing Marty's story, it just
Speaker 1: reinforced for me to just kind of stay on the
Speaker 1: path on that I'm on so much of our early records,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying with little brother, and you know,
Speaker 1: they were just done on really primitive equipment, and you know,
Speaker 1: even to the point that when you know, after you know,
Speaker 1: you get some bread or whatever and you can build
Speaker 1: your own studio. My studio now is still pretty basic,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. It's not a whole lot
Speaker 1: of gadgets, and it's still pretty much a small space.
Speaker 1: So just hear that all these classic records that I
Speaker 1: grew up listening to were essentially made just you know,
Speaker 1: in some in his kitchen or at his crib. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's it just shows to me. I think, just you know,
Speaker 1: it ain't really about what you got. It's not about
Speaker 1: the gear. It's about the person that's using it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And just to hear the story
Speaker 1: of how you triggered samples before there was an SP
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember trying to work in SP by
Speaker 1: my you know when it actually came out and I
Speaker 1: was like, what in the hell. So just to even
Speaker 1: be doing it back then, it's really amazing. But but nah, man,
Speaker 1: this is his his career for me is a big
Speaker 1: inspiration and you know, this is my first time seeing
Speaker 1: Bally since ship oh three. Like future Flavors. Well, we
Speaker 1: came up me Pete Rock, uh little brother the Ninth Pool.
Speaker 1: We all came up there and uh we did it
Speaker 1: at his crib, Sugar Steve, what did you learn?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 10: Infinite stuff tonight? As an engineer, it's very interesting to
Speaker 10: hear the early days of sampling and all the use
Speaker 10: what you got, the type of technology that I started
Speaker 10: out doing too on a double cassette deck, not a
Speaker 10: four track, but.
Speaker 1: And then all this stuff about.
Speaker 10: About how you were creating those songs that became classics
Speaker 10: for just for your for your radio show, and making
Speaker 10: that connection between you know, the old school DJs advancing
Speaker 10: things into the DJs making their own their own beats,
Speaker 10: you know, and you know that's it's a big connection
Speaker 10: to make, you know, to understand how hip hop started.
Speaker 1: Yes, lessons a bell Boss Bill, it's the high hats Man.
Speaker 1: It's the most mind blowing thing because one that's one
Speaker 1: of my favorite beats ever and it's mostly because of
Speaker 1: those high hats. So just to find out that your
Speaker 1: mouth is the source of those high hats, it's kind
Speaker 1: of fucked my head. Up, so that Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: major takeaway from me. I'm sorry. I wish I had
Speaker 1: something more substantial. But that dude that blew he dropped
Speaker 1: many bombed to night, blew my mind, unpaid Bill.
Speaker 9: The visionaries and icons that come on the show all
Speaker 9: come from these places where they people that live around them,
Speaker 9: are in the next apartment or whatever, are are integral
Speaker 9: parts of their visionary peaty right, which is amazing. And
Speaker 9: so like with with Marley, it's like Queen's Bridge and
Speaker 9: all the people in the thing, And like with Ray
Speaker 9: Parker was Detroit, right and all the people out of Detroit.
Speaker 9: And both of you did the same thing. Is when
Speaker 9: we asked you a question that we didn't know the
Speaker 9: answer to, like did you do this? Both of you said,
Speaker 9: of course I did. Like where, Like that's the dumbest
Speaker 9: fucking question. And I love that man shut up, which
Speaker 9: is how I feel on the show just about every day.
Speaker 1: It's a lesson for all. No, I'm joking, but yes,
Speaker 1: I love that part of it. Thank you.
Speaker 7: I knew you were a legend before we had to
Speaker 7: sit down. However, I did not know you were a
Speaker 7: national treasure. And I feel like the rest of the world.
Speaker 7: It just needs to be acknowledged. And I really hope
Speaker 7: that you know, you and the mere continue this conversation
Speaker 7: with the Smithsonian because I don't feel like there should
Speaker 7: be a Smithsonian with the history of our culture, includesis
Speaker 7: of hip hop.
Speaker 6: And you not be there yet.
Speaker 1: We need to get that board back.
Speaker 6: We don't even need whatever whatever you got.
Speaker 7: God, yeah, yeah, that's what I just I just learned it,
Speaker 7: like you need to be. It needs to be a
Speaker 7: foreword by Marley on every like hip hop blog that
Speaker 7: MC's or DJs think that it's their bible.
Speaker 1: Like Marley, I really appreciate the fact that you had
Speaker 1: so much experience in this business and you remembered a
Speaker 1: lot of detail, because that's that's kind of one of
Speaker 1: the hardest things about a show of this caliber, where
Speaker 1: you know, details become real shaky, and you know, people
Speaker 1: don't remember things, and you know, I feel it's like
Speaker 1: really important to document the stories and keep the tradition
Speaker 1: and the history going. I'm mind blown by so many things,
Speaker 1: but let me, I feel very validated with the it's
Speaker 1: all about the guitar pedals. I just did an instagram
Speaker 1: think about that, right that you're putting the drums. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm and I'm going back to now. You can't tell
Speaker 1: me nothing, It's all about guitar, guitar pedals. Well, I
Speaker 1: thank you very much for your time, Marley Man, give
Speaker 1: it up, Ladies, and Jail.
Speaker 4: West.
Speaker 1: Love Supreme is production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was
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