Speaker 1: Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora
Speaker 1: Ladies and Gentlemen. Um We thought they would be rather
Speaker 1: apropos at LSU to rerun the classic Pointer Sisters episode
Speaker 1: Uh and honor of Anita Pointer and Body Pointer um
Speaker 1: Ania of course recently passed away at the top of
Speaker 1: the year, and we're such big fans of theirs, and
Speaker 1: they gave us such an awesome interview, and um we
Speaker 1: just felt like, hey, we should do another encore episode
Speaker 1: of it. So here it is in all of its glory.
Speaker 1: Anita and Bonnie Pointer of the Pointer Sisters q l
Speaker 1: S classic Thank You subcrema some sub prima role called
Speaker 1: suprema so sub frema role call subprema So sub prima
Speaker 1: role called subprema subprema role call one, two, five, yeah, six, seven, eight, nine, eleven, yeah,
Speaker 1: twelve rule suprema subprema role call subprema so suprema role call.
Speaker 1: My name is Fonte. Yeah, I'm feeling free. Yeah. You
Speaker 1: gotta believe in something. Yeah, why not believe in me?
Speaker 1: Soma subprema roll calm sub prema so some sub frema.
Speaker 1: Wrong car name is sugar. Yeah, I can't hide your desire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because my roll call. Yeah five Suprema Subpremarema SMA roads
Speaker 1: are here, y'all. Yeah, that's what you need to know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Boss Bill so excited. Yeah, like Jesse Spanoma Sma Subprema
Speaker 1: road call em with the point is thanks, ma'am. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but teaching me about Yeah, I'm slow hand sure road
Speaker 1: call Prima Suma road call. Name is Fritz. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: glad to be here. Yeah, all you folk, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love so dear Surema road call, Frema road call. I'm
Speaker 1: a Nita and I'm excited to be here with you.
Speaker 1: Col Fremo, roll call some freeba road call your bunny.
Speaker 1: Pete wants to be in the house. Hels me you
Speaker 1: getting routed. Roma, come so fem, come so rowd. I
Speaker 1: like that. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: course Love Supreme Surprises of bound ladies and gentlemen, even
Speaker 1: for us. Yes, this is an amazing day we have
Speaker 1: Team Supreme was out nicely anyway, shout out. I thought
Speaker 1: you were going to go the obvious just say I'm
Speaker 1: so scared. I was to but yeah that was too obvious.
Speaker 1: I see No no good, good good good work there. Um,
Speaker 1: what can I say, ladies and gentlemen, we have what
Speaker 1: I consider a dynasty, an absolute dynasty, uh in my opinion, um,
Speaker 1: one of the probably the what I what I would
Speaker 1: call the the the ultimate metamorphosis in black music covering jazz, country, pop, rock, soul,
Speaker 1: R and B. You name it, Uh, this entire family
Speaker 1: and and to have here. Wait before we start, are
Speaker 1: you still good? Your esther Phillips inmitation, Yeah, dravel honest, don't.
Speaker 1: I got a call called cle England santas hock, I
Speaker 1: surround my hut. I want, I want to. We want
Speaker 1: to welcome Bonnie, Anita and Fritz wanted the Pointer Sisters
Speaker 1: and brother Thank you, thank you, thank you for giving
Speaker 1: us the honor of celebrating uh, your book which is
Speaker 1: entitled fairy Tale Yeah, a Pointer Sister or a Pointer Family. Uh?
Speaker 1: What's the complete title? Fairy Tale the Pointer Sisters Family story, Okay,
Speaker 1: and fairy tale course named after your historic Our first
Speaker 1: song yeah for country best country vocal by duo or group?
Speaker 1: Yeah by uh we were It was written by me
Speaker 1: and Bonnie and um we want over the Oak Ridge
Speaker 1: Boys and the Stantner Brothers have a great Country to Nashville, Tennessee.
Speaker 1: David Rubinson was producer and he was just amazing and
Speaker 1: he had lived in Nashville, but he took us there
Speaker 1: to record it in Nashville with the A pre Musiciansans
Speaker 1: musicians were there at this and they didn't know that
Speaker 1: we were black at first, and they said and we
Speaker 1: got on stage, that said hot, damn it, them gals
Speaker 1: is black. That was the first black females to every
Speaker 1: perform the He was a welcoming surprise. Yeah. They left
Speaker 1: us after we sang the song, though they had to
Speaker 1: sing it three times. Yeah, I kept saying, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was funny, it was It was fun surprising. This was
Speaker 1: a collaborative effort from all of you as far as
Speaker 1: like is it an oral history book or how how's
Speaker 1: the book format it. It is a collaborative effort from
Speaker 1: all of us. My brother Fritz is the writer and
Speaker 1: we fed him information. He's professor Fritz. He just retired
Speaker 1: from Contracostic University. Yeah, I taught thirty five years university.
Speaker 1: What I taught I was in the English department, but
Speaker 1: I taught African history and African literature, both oral and written.
Speaker 1: African literature, and so I taught those courses for thirty
Speaker 1: three years and we had to sit there and learn
Speaker 1: them and was such a wonderful teacher. It was great
Speaker 1: because growing up in Open, we got no history, black
Speaker 1: history in our schools. And when my brother came back
Speaker 1: from college and set up a center and we called
Speaker 1: it the Black Students Study Group, and he taught us
Speaker 1: history that we never knew, you know, important things that
Speaker 1: black kids should know to feel proud of themselves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like a gree oh, because you know, the
Speaker 1: grio is someone who the grio is someone who you know,
Speaker 1: recites poetry and history and then but the de grio
Speaker 1: needs some sort of heroic act in order to write about.
Speaker 1: And so I consider my sisters the heroines in this
Speaker 1: and I'm the grio who records their heroic deeds. Yea,
Speaker 1: So yes? Can I can I assume one of my
Speaker 1: favorite songs by you guys when like I've been listening,
Speaker 1: like the like the back of my hand, but the
Speaker 1: the the intro to steam Heat where you guys talk
Speaker 1: about your So can I assume that was autobiographical? Like
Speaker 1: just it was really written? It was not um what
Speaker 1: we experienced. We didn't have steam heate in Oakland. There
Speaker 1: was no steam heat in Oakland. We were talking about
Speaker 1: the play. Was it a pajama game about it was?
Speaker 1: It was a pajama game that I did that in
Speaker 1: high school and brought it to the group. When I
Speaker 1: started like wool you just sang that song again and
Speaker 1: then I liked that song so that I bought it
Speaker 1: today my sisters after I graduated from school and started
Speaker 1: the point of Sisters. So what was your early childhood? Uh,
Speaker 1: memories like growing up in Oakland? What was the Oakland
Speaker 1: like back then? I thought it was a great town
Speaker 1: whenever different now it's changed so much. And we lived
Speaker 1: right across the street from Deffirmary Park. That's where all
Speaker 1: the Black Panthers would have their rallies. But even before
Speaker 1: those times, we used to play at that park every day.
Speaker 1: It was our babysitter school. We went to cold School
Speaker 1: and go to Defirmary Park and play and mother charms
Speaker 1: because to charm school and everywhere no guns. There was
Speaker 1: charm school. We went to charm school, that defermative charm school,
Speaker 1: cooking schools, dance classes. Yeah, because the only time we
Speaker 1: heard about that was Motown, Like Oh. Yeah. We had
Speaker 1: to walk with books on and hold our purses a
Speaker 1: certain way and have certain clothes and gloves. Mother made
Speaker 1: us do that. Yeah, I think it's really good for
Speaker 1: women to have that. And Fritz talks about that too.
Speaker 1: With the importance of the parks. Yeah, my brother now
Speaker 1: is commissioned with parks and wreck for the city of Tacoma,
Speaker 1: and it's an elected position. They have to vote him
Speaker 1: in every year, and he's been re elected for like
Speaker 1: three times, and he's really concerned that the parks have
Speaker 1: seen a decline and they don't have the kind of
Speaker 1: upkeep and maintenance that they should have. Because when we
Speaker 1: were growing up, we could play basketball at night under
Speaker 1: the lights and it was like such a wonderful remember
Speaker 1: that we checked the Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: a few pointers. I'm sorry, are there we don't know
Speaker 1: that the summer you are everybody, Yeah, there are, there
Speaker 1: are six children children. Yes. Mr Ruth personal baseball player
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, he referee for many years, the NFL
Speaker 1: referee in the NFL, he was He played for the
Speaker 1: Chicago Clubs and Houston Astros and he was retired from
Speaker 1: and he's the last professional baseball player to bat four hundred.
Speaker 1: No one has ever done that except our brother, and
Speaker 1: he stopped playing what fifty years ago? Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: still record. One of amazingly well rounded family. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and we grew up in We grew up in a
Speaker 1: house with fifteen people and our cousins Paul Silas and
Speaker 1: he's now he was a professional basketball player with the
Speaker 1: Boston Celtics and UHS coach Lebron James coach. It was
Speaker 1: his first coaching with the Cleveland Cavaliers. My cousin Paul Silas. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: we have quite a first yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And then Ruth and then Ruth who's not here, and
Speaker 1: then Anita, then Bonnie and then June who was not
Speaker 1: here with us. Yes, but there we had a Oh god,
Speaker 1: we had an exciting childhood. There were so many jobs
Speaker 1: in Oakland. Oakland was just full of employment all everywhere,
Speaker 1: never worried about and then all of a sudden it
Speaker 1: just the you know, the off shoring and the you know,
Speaker 1: relocation of industry and now it's just depleted. Was the
Speaker 1: main industry like well, I think the main industry was steel.
Speaker 1: They had a U S Steel, but they also had
Speaker 1: a huge like I remember the Disco Company was there,
Speaker 1: Monty was there, Nations there. I mean, oh, I never
Speaker 1: worried about that was not an issue when we were
Speaker 1: growing up. You know, it just became that way. Oh god,
Speaker 1: last twenty thirty years. It's just because it becomes really
Speaker 1: just depleted, just all the jobs left, and they put
Speaker 1: in liquor stores and crack of course. And I remember
Speaker 1: going around the neighborhood collecting people's old magazines and then
Speaker 1: going back through the same neighborhoods selling them nickel. And
Speaker 1: that's the reaction I would usually get. They were laughing.
Speaker 1: I had this magazine every time I've got him from
Speaker 1: and I'll get it back to them. But we didn't
Speaker 1: worry about nobody shooting us or kidnapping us or you know.
Speaker 1: It was a great neighborhood, you know, where people were trusting,
Speaker 1: no guns, you know, not until we went to Arkansas,
Speaker 1: no kidding. And Bonnie went to Arkansas one year. I
Speaker 1: three times. I went in the fifth grade, the seventh grade,
Speaker 1: and the tenth grade. The seventh grade. Bonnie wanted to
Speaker 1: come with me, so she came with me, and it
Speaker 1: was a hell of a trip to We rode all
Speaker 1: the way from Oakland to Arkansas on a big old
Speaker 1: transfer eight God, people were were turning your back. I was.
Speaker 1: They had like a little apartment up in the back
Speaker 1: of the truck. And we left our family and then
Speaker 1: body drove back to Arkansas and the truck we speared
Speaker 1: about two dollars the whole trip. They were stopping. I was,
Speaker 1: I was like twelve, eleven or thirteen. Yeah, this wasn't
Speaker 1: just that we were head at the grandma's house. They
Speaker 1: were they were shocked when that big old chuck plied
Speaker 1: up and we have and then we wanted when while
Speaker 1: we were there, it was it turned into Halloween, and
Speaker 1: we wanted to go chicken treating because we were from
Speaker 1: California and we thought we can go chicken treating, and
Speaker 1: they said about just told us don't be out after dark.
Speaker 1: Right after dark, not past the city line where there
Speaker 1: was a city line where and lived. Right grandma's house
Speaker 1: was right across that line from that line. White side
Speaker 1: of town was just on the other side of the street,
Speaker 1: and we lived on the other side, right across the
Speaker 1: street where it was gravel on our side and it
Speaker 1: was paving on the on the white side. Right all
Speaker 1: the roads on our side were gravel roads. All the
Speaker 1: streets on the white side were paved brokes. But it
Speaker 1: was probably good for you guys to see that and
Speaker 1: be exposed. I couldn't believe the conditions there when I
Speaker 1: went there. It was like I might have been going
Speaker 1: to a wild jungle somewhere, just you know, where people
Speaker 1: are living off the land and they didn't have indoor,
Speaker 1: indoor toilets. And this is in the fifties, and I
Speaker 1: think that's where I need to get her country. Uh.
Speaker 1: Kept Yeah, she kept going back and she would sit
Speaker 1: outside these speakeasies and listen to Yeah, told us not
Speaker 1: the right with king and being and yeah, so she
Speaker 1: that's I think she got her chops, her Southern nights,
Speaker 1: so her you know, her country chops. They're not fabric
Speaker 1: Earl Thomas Conny, Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: we went back to the Grand ol Opry and we
Speaker 1: were presenters at the Country Music Awards that year, and
Speaker 1: they never say I had mentioned that that was How
Speaker 1: was that this came to me? I was music officially
Speaker 1: introduced to the family, Like, who's the first to was
Speaker 1: it church? Was it? Yeah? Church? And our mother was
Speaker 1: a singer. She sang at home all the time, saying
Speaker 1: to wake us up, you know, and saying to put
Speaker 1: us asleep. And she was a good singer, and she
Speaker 1: sang solos at church, and of course we be in
Speaker 1: the pastor's children. We got into choir and we sang,
Speaker 1: and it really was good training for us. Think so too,
Speaker 1: because I think that's where they learned to sing harmonically
Speaker 1: and also thing together because uh, you know, uh, having
Speaker 1: having to audition for a position in the choir, then
Speaker 1: they place you in different places, and so you begin
Speaker 1: to learn your voice and your where you belong, and
Speaker 1: how to hold onto your own notes and how to
Speaker 1: be in your own group. And so it was excellent
Speaker 1: training for uh, for learning to sing, you know, and
Speaker 1: learning to sing group singing in particular, because they were like,
Speaker 1: don't get in my key, do not get in my notes,
Speaker 1: and then you just get in my key. Another note
Speaker 1: pleased me to ask your sister Ruth, who's world famous
Speaker 1: for her bass vocals, how when did she develop that voice?
Speaker 1: Was that always there was so weird? How we all
Speaker 1: just had difference. Yeah, she didn't, really she had it,
Speaker 1: and she said she worked on it too by screaming
Speaker 1: at our basketball games. Yeah, to get her to screaming. Yes. Yes,
Speaker 1: because we had an amazing sports school, our school, mcclarmates
Speaker 1: High School, so many great basketball they've never ever, ever,
Speaker 1: ever lost a game. Yeah, and the girls would find
Speaker 1: their wife. They did the first fifteen years. Well actually
Speaker 1: it was like five years or so that we endedn't
Speaker 1: lose again. I wouldn't stay in high school that long,
Speaker 1: but five years, five years they were there. They never
Speaker 1: lost the game. But some of the names like Bill
Speaker 1: Russell went to our school, Yeah, Frank Robinson, Kareem no no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. But also Frank Robinson, the first Major League
Speaker 1: baseball coach, Bill Russell considered the best basketball player ever. Uh,
Speaker 1: Wendell Hayes, Vada Pinson, all of these guys, Joe Ellis,
Speaker 1: all these guys profess became professional athletes. So they called
Speaker 1: us to school of championship because we would just that
Speaker 1: was our thing, you know, winning, We love winning, and
Speaker 1: we did. Yes, So that's how I was able to
Speaker 1: go to college on a scholarship scholarship. My brother and
Speaker 1: I both uh and my cousin went to university on
Speaker 1: athletic scholarships. You know. In fact, yeah, my my my fact,
Speaker 1: my my uncle and my father got together and said, uh, well,
Speaker 1: if you want my cousin Paul Silas, because he was
Speaker 1: really the star. He said, if you want him, you
Speaker 1: gotta take Fritz. And so that's how I got. They
Speaker 1: negotiated me and he was already gone, Yes, Aaron was
Speaker 1: already gone. But they said, if you want Paul, you
Speaker 1: gotta take Fritz. Yes, yeah, yeah. So they took me
Speaker 1: out of re form school to go to play basketball.
Speaker 1: So he was, well, your was the beneficially started that
Speaker 1: that that that honor goes to Bonnie. She's the one
Speaker 1: who's had the vision. She's the one who stepped out
Speaker 1: and said we gotta, I gotta do something to Ruth
Speaker 1: and Anita were working jobs, you know. Anita was a
Speaker 1: secretary typing and Ruth was working as a key punch
Speaker 1: operator doing computer stuff and were not before computers, key
Speaker 1: punch and uh, June was too young, but Bonnie said, hey,
Speaker 1: I want to do something different, and so she took
Speaker 1: that ride over to San Francisco and she and June
Speaker 1: uh started singing together pointers a pair. They were called
Speaker 1: how how culturally different was San Francisco to Oakland? In
Speaker 1: the late sixties, because I know that people can sider
Speaker 1: totally totally different really, but so the the the whole
Speaker 1: idea of this utopian uh love love thing that's happened.
Speaker 1: But I think I'm still dressed like that. So that
Speaker 1: wasn't happening in Oakland at the time or was it
Speaker 1: just like it's most Black Panthers. We were part of
Speaker 1: the Black panther Um uprising in Oakland when it happened
Speaker 1: with you in Newton and at the Black Church and
Speaker 1: then you know, Panther Party. But then on the other
Speaker 1: side of Sanford spo it was the hippie and it
Speaker 1: was rock and roll and so much of that in Oakland.
Speaker 1: But did see some of it in Berkeley. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: more by the colleges. They've had a lot of used
Speaker 1: to call it berserkly acid and mescal and things like that,
Speaker 1: people living in communeel and drugs. Yeah. Oakland had a
Speaker 1: lot of political infrastructure when I returned from college. The
Speaker 1: Urban League, the CP the Nation of Islam, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: African American Association, Uh, all of these organizations we're doing
Speaker 1: work in Oakland, you know, and that was really a
Speaker 1: very political more political then Uh then then San Francisco,
Speaker 1: you know, so we got messed in that we in
Speaker 1: San Francisco, we're part of the Northern California Black Panther Party.
Speaker 1: Before the before the Black Panther Party for Self we
Speaker 1: were talking about tom because they were talking about the
Speaker 1: whole establishment of Quansa and whatnot. Yeah. In fact, there's
Speaker 1: a film in the in the in the movie called
Speaker 1: the Panthers about our organization. When the Black Panther Party
Speaker 1: of Self Defense came from Oakland and San Francisco and
Speaker 1: shot up our party and said we should not call
Speaker 1: ourselves panthers name anymore. Yeah, so we said okay and
Speaker 1: stole our money. Now you're okay. Yeah, Because we wanted
Speaker 1: to be aligned with Lounge County, Alabama and the Freedom
Speaker 1: Democratic Party at Fannie Lew Hamer and so I never
Speaker 1: need another we're talking about going to it or there
Speaker 1: to be a part of that movement. But with Stokely Carmichael.
Speaker 1: So we did a lot of work there, and I
Speaker 1: was writing poetry with Angela Davis. And get back to
Speaker 1: a couple of points with Angela Davis. Really did you
Speaker 1: guys did you publish him? Are they know? I have
Speaker 1: them in my head well Hughey, and Newton was hit
Speaker 1: and tired of being sick and tired and lost in
Speaker 1: the wilderness of white America at the masses, Asses said
Speaker 1: the masses to the slave, no problem, don't Robin still,
Speaker 1: I'll be your driving will cool baby, And he willed
Speaker 1: us into three hundredeas of black madness from hall guts, breaching, creams,
Speaker 1: promises and Uncle Thomas's to the streets to Watts to
Speaker 1: kill Boom too. Honkey's gone motherfuck the police and pockets
Speaker 1: at the two black people tired, sick and tired of
Speaker 1: being sick and tired. Huie Newton used to hit in fact,
Speaker 1: in fact that the night, the night he had he
Speaker 1: was fine though, Yeah, he was fine. He was a
Speaker 1: beautiful brother and had the center opened that night. We
Speaker 1: were having a party. Yeah, And he came and he
Speaker 1: tried to get Bonny to leave with him, and she
Speaker 1: didn't go. A little while later we get this, he's
Speaker 1: been shot. Yeah, so we all go in hospital. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we got we got a car caravan of about ten
Speaker 1: cars and went to the hospital just to stand around
Speaker 1: because they had arrested him saying he had shot a cop. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we went there to just make sure that they
Speaker 1: didn't do too much harm to him. Local police let
Speaker 1: us know, you better get out of here. Came with
Speaker 1: their dogs. You can hear. They stood in a lie.
Speaker 1: Everyone disperse. Yeah, and we ran away right away to
Speaker 1: live another day. Oh, that was just at a crazy
Speaker 1: yard party. That was one rocket guy in my lifetime.
Speaker 1: You're in a drive by and that was in Oakland. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were at a party in the backyard party and
Speaker 1: I had had a fight with somebody back there and
Speaker 1: came by shooting, and we jumped the fence. And guess
Speaker 1: what car was that we got in convertible? It was
Speaker 1: a pink that convertible. We're trying to duglan. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So they already ready for this book to be the movie,
Speaker 1: Yes we are. It'll be out in February. It'll be
Speaker 1: out in February, February coming year Black History Month. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so black Black Black about a day. So back when,
Speaker 1: back when it was Point as a pair, You guys
Speaker 1: were signed to Atlantic, No, we weren't signed to anyone then.
Speaker 1: We were just singing all over over to San Francisco
Speaker 1: and everywhere. In June, Yeah, we became with Anita when
Speaker 1: Nita joined the group. Then we became the Pointer Sisters,
Speaker 1: and we're signed to Atlantic and signed to Atlanta Terry
Speaker 1: Wexler songs. We were playing at the Troubadoor. We were
Speaker 1: backup singers, Me and Bonnie and June were backup seekers
Speaker 1: for groups in San Francisco, and we were saying my
Speaker 1: Syvestor records, I've seen your names. Yeah, yeah, backup singers.
Speaker 1: We have so much fun with them. Yeah, we were sitting.
Speaker 1: He had the best clothes, alright, shows like I Easy.
Speaker 1: We had flying chickens on stage hoops with fire people
Speaker 1: jumping through the hoops and just people on swings. It
Speaker 1: was just like a circus, and we had we could
Speaker 1: have come out there and be singing our hands off
Speaker 1: as high as we could go, because his voice was
Speaker 1: high and he wanted us above him. Our veins would
Speaker 1: be popping out of our next I think you said,
Speaker 1: did you did you attend his wedding? The first kind
Speaker 1: of first gate wedding in San Francisco wedding? What was that?
Speaker 1: Go to Gate Park saying what a date? What was
Speaker 1: the first dance? Don't I don't remember? We were too high,
Speaker 1: That makes sense to me. It was six of Us
Speaker 1: at seventy seventy two, seventy one or something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we went to seventy one just before we did our
Speaker 1: finished our We were finishing our album at the same time. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we loved his clothes. When when was the trip There
Speaker 1: was a trip where they took to I think Mississippi
Speaker 1: when they told you you couldn't sing, uh, they had
Speaker 1: to sing you couldn't sink. That was when we did
Speaker 1: that thing with Elvin at the Whiskey a Go Goo
Speaker 1: with Jerry Wexler was in the audience and he called
Speaker 1: David Rubinson instead, I want to sign these girls. And
Speaker 1: like the next day we were off to New Orleans
Speaker 1: and from New Orleans to be with Wardale Kasair and
Speaker 1: from there we went to Jackson, Mississippi. Yeah. Jerry Wexler
Speaker 1: Aretha's producer. Yeah, and they got there, they gave us
Speaker 1: like five songs to learn overnight. How okay, Because of
Speaker 1: the intricacies of your presentation, first of all, when you're
Speaker 1: the point of Sisters, did you guys come out the
Speaker 1: gate in the sort of filtered andrews Sisters forties stick
Speaker 1: thing that to find you guys for your first Blue
Speaker 1: Blue note blue albums like was it did you guys
Speaker 1: come out of the gate as in, okay, our approach
Speaker 1: is going to be these forties harmonies with the dresses
Speaker 1: and we have the forties look. But we wanted to
Speaker 1: sing everything on the first but the first two albums
Speaker 1: we did stick with the jazz. We did a lot
Speaker 1: of jazz on the first two albums and Cloud Bursts
Speaker 1: rehearse that because that was so intricate start off, and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we worked on it for you know, weeks. We sang
Speaker 1: it slow. Everybody get their note and he sing it
Speaker 1: slow and every day you speed it up. It's so
Speaker 1: hard for me to imagine that because I mean, now
Speaker 1: with technology, I can go on the internet look up lyrics,
Speaker 1: you know, instantly repeat stuff. But you know, like there's
Speaker 1: a lot of words in Cloud first. So we got
Speaker 1: we got recognized the Encyclopedia Britannica for singing five hundred
Speaker 1: words a minute. Yeah, I know, Like, how how long
Speaker 1: did it take you before you mastered mastered it perfectly?
Speaker 1: After we fainted in the studio a few times a
Speaker 1: week two weeks maybe, Yeah, we take working for hours.
Speaker 1: We go to David's office and just had a keyboard
Speaker 1: player that would just play it. You can tell like that.
Speaker 1: That to me, like I feel like whenever I want
Speaker 1: to put somebody down, that was always Oh no, don't
Speaker 1: you're thinking? Now made a new film. First you were
Speaker 1: my love, because great clubbers. I really flew my class.
Speaker 1: Great first I found your love and that's a great clubbers. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: one of the things about that is that you know
Speaker 1: they when they went to this southern event, they were
Speaker 1: told that they had not supposed that they wanted to
Speaker 1: put them in a mold and with the the Yeah,
Speaker 1: when we went from Jerry Wexler said he wanted to
Speaker 1: sign us. They sent us down there to Wardale because
Speaker 1: they're and we went in singing country songs and uh,
Speaker 1: what else we have? Jada? Do we have Jada? Then
Speaker 1: too and some other songs that and they laughed in
Speaker 1: our face. They told us, you can't sing songs like that.
Speaker 1: You guys are black girls and you gotta sings. Want
Speaker 1: you to sound like the honeycomb he comes and the
Speaker 1: that's what they told that. They like the song called
Speaker 1: Don't try to Take the Fifth on Me. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: gave us some songs that we were oh lord, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we did. I mean, they put them out. They didn't
Speaker 1: do anything we knew that wasn't us objection, not gone away,
Speaker 1: not gone que in nature. Okay. So though it was
Speaker 1: very unorthodox though, because you guys were like the first
Speaker 1: throwback group. Even though throwback wasn't a thing back in
Speaker 1: the seventies, you know, like the whole nostalgia culture thing
Speaker 1: wasn't a thing. You guys were even taking it before
Speaker 1: the fifties. You were taking it to like when he's
Speaker 1: in Yeah, yeah, how how did you guys convince? Uh? Well,
Speaker 1: you're you're studying Atlantic was sure you went to Bob.
Speaker 1: It was Bob Krasnow and president of huh what what
Speaker 1: made him see the vision of you guys and what
Speaker 1: you could be? I think it was David David Rubinson,
Speaker 1: David Reubinson, Yeah, yeah. He was familiar with the catalog
Speaker 1: of Jazz and Lambert Hendrickson Ross and there's a Gillespie
Speaker 1: and Duke Ellington and he wanted all of them. And
Speaker 1: when yeah, and when they said you know, we can
Speaker 1: see anything, don't put us in a box, then David
Speaker 1: must have heard that and said okay, and then they
Speaker 1: able to do it. They went yeah, yeah, and so
Speaker 1: with Yeah, when we got the record back from New
Speaker 1: Orleans that wear the ocause there did that we recorded
Speaker 1: in Jackson, Mississippi, David Rubinson took the record and threw
Speaker 1: it across the room. Wow, this is not what I
Speaker 1: wanted for you to do. This is not what I
Speaker 1: wanted for you. Yeah, it wasn't what we wanted to
Speaker 1: do either, because they just you know, didn't let us
Speaker 1: do our music. They took one country song that we
Speaker 1: took to them, Tulsa County, Oh my god, don't county,
Speaker 1: and they took that song and you wouldn't recognize it
Speaker 1: with After they finished with it, they rearranged it into
Speaker 1: an R and B country zone. So I need the
Speaker 1: sound country anymore that you gain saying, man, you black,
Speaker 1: you can't say no country music, right, right, And that
Speaker 1: reoccurred when they went to the Grand ol Opry and
Speaker 1: they had signs out in the front meet grew greeting
Speaker 1: them saying keep country, white, keep keep yeah, yeah, keep country, country,
Speaker 1: country country, yeah, in front of the Grand Old Opry.
Speaker 1: That was the reason to make up grade again exactly
Speaker 1: the same same thing. That's right, that's right. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: that was quite an event and you know the country
Speaker 1: western part of it. You know, Uh, yes, we can't can,
Speaker 1: which was wrote that for Lee Dorsey? Did it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he did it? How did you? What was you? Whose
Speaker 1: idea was it to cover that song? It was appointing
Speaker 1: since I did. We had the record at the Lee
Speaker 1: Dorsey album and we took it to David and said,
Speaker 1: this is the message we want to get to the world.
Speaker 1: So then we wrote the vamp the end of the song,
Speaker 1: but Allen wouldn't give us any credits on it. He
Speaker 1: said the song was with my song, my song, you know,
Speaker 1: writers credits, even though we wrote the whole end. Now
Speaker 1: the time all the people come together as an equal
Speaker 1: take the burden off your brother, got to love one another.
Speaker 1: How can you sit there like there's nothing to do,
Speaker 1: just like you don't care what this world's coming to?
Speaker 1: How many needs? So many poor? Love? Understanding is the
Speaker 1: key to the door, you know? And you know for
Speaker 1: their first debut performance, what what club was that? The build?
Speaker 1: Build was it? You know where you did the where
Speaker 1: the clan was in the uniforms and sank klux Klan
Speaker 1: there there being performance the performance the band was in
Speaker 1: a ku klux Klan Universe. We were dressed like Billy
Speaker 1: That was funny. And the band was dressed in hoods
Speaker 1: and capes and they were playing their guitars and playing
Speaker 1: the drums in their hoods. Don't kind of funny now
Speaker 1: back today. Yeah, but backup band was the lu Klux Klan.
Speaker 1: Can you believe it? Can you believe? Dress like Billie
Speaker 1: Holidays and everything. That was so wonderful. I didn't even
Speaker 1: notice the band. We got off the stage and I
Speaker 1: saw pictures. Yeah, turned around and nobody once. So we
Speaker 1: did we. I was so nervous doing our first show.
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize they were. Didn't know who the
Speaker 1: band was. I didn't really I didn't care because I
Speaker 1: wouldn't paying them no attention. Yeah. Yeah, that was our
Speaker 1: very first uh our first American show. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I didn't have the clan band too.
Speaker 1: We did that. Wow. So what was the what was
Speaker 1: the touring circuit like for that specific period? Because I
Speaker 1: know that at least with the Summer of Love, like
Speaker 1: between sixty seven and seventy three. Uh, Bill Graham was
Speaker 1: into mixing. You know, Miles Davis in The Grateful Dead,
Speaker 1: Like would you guys fit in anything that was Bill
Speaker 1: grammish at all. He was our manager Filmore West, Filmore East. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was our manager, but he said he didn't want
Speaker 1: people to know because he was always given us money
Speaker 1: and I don't think everybody that I'm very metso influenced
Speaker 1: our career and helped us along and to grow bee
Speaker 1: what we are now today. So would he promote you
Speaker 1: via the rock circuit or like we were doing back
Speaker 1: up saying at the time we back up I'm going
Speaker 1: to feel more West singing with Elvin Bishop Jefferson airplane
Speaker 1: and we lived right across the street from what was
Speaker 1: going on. We didn't. We ended up get in live,
Speaker 1: so we were always there. Phil Graham was our man.
Speaker 1: He loved really So was it just like mirror seconds
Speaker 1: to learn a song or like just coming, just going
Speaker 1: and make up our own backgrounds with Oh? Yeah. We
Speaker 1: did a lot of background singing on record and we
Speaker 1: would go in and they would play the track and
Speaker 1: they say, now what would you put what background when
Speaker 1: you put on thisby wolf Man? So we would make
Speaker 1: up the background parts for the Betty David sessions with Davis. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we did. With Betty. She was funny. She was really around,
Speaker 1: finally just a documentary of her life, stepping in her
Speaker 1: I'm in shoes. Yeah, Betty was cool. So was that
Speaker 1: just a regular day? I mean, because she's so us
Speaker 1: serious with her, you know, her life and everything that
Speaker 1: this documentary is finally our first glimpse into. Was there
Speaker 1: anything notable about those sessions at all? Or I was
Speaker 1: just like we woke up one day, who Betty Davis
Speaker 1: looking clothes cloth pants and bubo as she wrote that
Speaker 1: song about all right, I'm gonna skip to seventy five
Speaker 1: when you guys did the Stepping album speaking of shoes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the very first song I ever learned to
Speaker 1: play on drums was but you gotta chick on the side,
Speaker 1: get out of I mean, by that point I was
Speaker 1: fig enough to actually fit on my dad. My father's
Speaker 1: the drummer. Oh no, no, no, he was. My father
Speaker 1: was an oldiestwop singer, but he had his band. Uh
Speaker 1: you know, I used to always sneak on the drum set,
Speaker 1: and so the interview you for a minute, let's see
Speaker 1: what's going on. Kidding, But I'll say that the Stepping album,
Speaker 1: especially with I ate sleeping alone and what was the
Speaker 1: other Stevie, Yeah, step and Bring Your Sweet What were
Speaker 1: those sessions like working with him? Oh, they were just heavenly.
Speaker 1: I don't hardly remember. I was so in awe Stevie
Speaker 1: and we wrote together. We went to the condos and
Speaker 1: we were living in Saucelito, and he came over to
Speaker 1: Saucelito to our condo and we rode, and then we
Speaker 1: went back to David's studio and we went to Wally Hide,
Speaker 1: their studio in San Francisco, and it was just magical.
Speaker 1: You know. I was just happy to be working with him.
Speaker 1: I loved him with all my heart. And then to
Speaker 1: be able to work with him too and write some songs.
Speaker 1: And I noticed we got we got credit on baby
Speaker 1: bring Your Sweet Stuff Home to Me, and and we
Speaker 1: wrote another one with him called Sleep It Alone, but
Speaker 1: we didn't get any credits on it. So, Stevie, if
Speaker 1: you're out there, tell me to mind. So, I said
Speaker 1: the same thing all into that song. It can give
Speaker 1: me some credits, come on, Steven, But it ain't happen
Speaker 1: now that I'm sure he's got handling the publishing, you
Speaker 1: know himself. So and those people that do they all
Speaker 1: about the money. They don't care about nothing else. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: So with the the Having a Party project, it was
Speaker 1: the approach was less about the forty What what made
Speaker 1: you guys decide stylistically too modernize the group and not
Speaker 1: yeah forty sing anymore? Whose decision was that? Well, I
Speaker 1: guess a joint decision of us and producer. But we
Speaker 1: have been doing these songs, you know, and getting gold albums,
Speaker 1: and but it made it made no difference. You know,
Speaker 1: they barely would hear them on the radio. The songs
Speaker 1: wouldn't be played, um just like now huh. But once
Speaker 1: we got a gold single, everything changed, and I guess
Speaker 1: that's what we were headed for. We didn't get it
Speaker 1: with David with Having a Party, but we got some
Speaker 1: nice fun stuff on that record and great musicians. It's
Speaker 1: weird because for hip hop, that's an album that a
Speaker 1: lot of hip hop uses gravitate towards because uh, you know,
Speaker 1: there's hip hop produces here things different. So it's like
Speaker 1: if there's a good four bars, there are four bars,
Speaker 1: you know, that's the sort of thing. So yeah, a
Speaker 1: lot of notable hip hop classics were you know, the
Speaker 1: foundation of of a lot of the musical backdrop. That's
Speaker 1: an album, you know with like drum loops and whatnot.
Speaker 1: That's good, but for you, you didn't particularly enjoy that
Speaker 1: album of that project or that was the last project
Speaker 1: with David. David we did have the train station at
Speaker 1: l A and it was just a crazy day. I
Speaker 1: remember it's working so hard and sweating and I don't
Speaker 1: remember it was hot. It was oh god, it was
Speaker 1: a fun day though. I enjoyed the video, enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: So how it's are as like the four of you
Speaker 1: a concern? I mean, because you know it's family members
Speaker 1: sometimes agreeable, sometimes they bicker or whatnot. But like, how
Speaker 1: is it like is it truly always an agreeable atmosphere?
Speaker 1: Like how do you guys settle your differences? And you're
Speaker 1: together all the time, and you know how expect and
Speaker 1: knowing each other as we grew together, you know, um,
Speaker 1: we just seem to know what buttons not to push,
Speaker 1: you know, and when when it may being the shortest thing,
Speaker 1: that one of the youngest, I believe me, I wasn't
Speaker 1: pushing no button. But people ain't too tall, you know.
Speaker 1: She got tougher because she was the smallest, the biggest mouth,
Speaker 1: always ready to get somebody And Jack had the baby,
Speaker 1: so she was always handled with kid gloves. She was
Speaker 1: always kind of fragile, she really was, you know, and
Speaker 1: we kind of took care of her as much as
Speaker 1: we could. So you eventually went to Motown in seventy
Speaker 1: h with you released what Heaven must have sent you.
Speaker 1: I think I gotta say that all of your Soul
Speaker 1: Train appearances, we're legendary because you and Don's flirt game,
Speaker 1: how much we could see one I got you on
Speaker 1: that game was really really I'll say that I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, but you know, there,
Speaker 1: I always felt like there was a lot of inside
Speaker 1: jokes whenever he would talk to you, like he would
Speaker 1: flirt with you the most. I'm keeping my mouth shut,
Speaker 1: so I would like to know, um Boss Bill and
Speaker 1: I for about maybe four or five years UM we
Speaker 1: did a course as quasi professors at n y U
Speaker 1: and one of the main themes of our class h
Speaker 1: was the idea of what the eighties represented as far
Speaker 1: as UH for black groups transitioning two, what what lay ahead?
Speaker 1: Or the idea of For some reason, the idea of
Speaker 1: crossover seemed like a four letter word. But you know,
Speaker 1: I always explained to our class. There there's a scene
Speaker 1: in Film and Louise where the very last scene I
Speaker 1: don't want to spoil alert did you see the movie?
Speaker 1: You know the cliff But for um, you know, for
Speaker 1: a lot of black artists that were notable in the seventies, Uh,
Speaker 1: the eighties represented a cliff jump, and either some groups
Speaker 1: idea was too okay, Well, the lead singer has to go,
Speaker 1: so I you know, Richie leaves the commodoors and Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson eventually is the way out of his family to
Speaker 1: go solo. Um. And then some other groups kind of
Speaker 1: had a do or die situation, which is like either
Speaker 1: roll with the punches or you know, get left back
Speaker 1: into nostalgiaville. And I'll say that you guys probably out
Speaker 1: of all the acts that attempted that jump fair the best.
Speaker 1: Uh you know, Earth Winn and Fire trying to make
Speaker 1: that jump cool on the gang same situation. Um, what
Speaker 1: when you guys went to Planet Records. I don't know
Speaker 1: what label that was under, but I know that you
Speaker 1: guys worked with Freddy Perrin Fridge Fridge Perry. Uh what
Speaker 1: what was the trust situation between him as a producer
Speaker 1: and the group. As far as convincing you guys to
Speaker 1: like see things my way and I'm gonna put push
Speaker 1: you in a different direction, which we kind of went
Speaker 1: to him wanting a different direction, and he liked our ideas.
Speaker 1: We took songs to him and uh, what were the songs?
Speaker 1: Everybody has a Star It was one of the songs
Speaker 1: we took and let's see, I can't remember that you did?
Speaker 1: Uh well fired, um, well yeah, happy yeah, Alan Tussan, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was a question again. No, I'm just saying that, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you reveal to me that you guys went to him.
Speaker 1: In my mind, I'm thinking usually when we ask uh,
Speaker 1: act people that come on our show, usually it's a
Speaker 1: thing where it's like the app yeah, the label told
Speaker 1: us we have to do that, we have to do that.
Speaker 1: And I always wanted to know because you're you're probably
Speaker 1: the first act that really has four stages, you know,
Speaker 1: Lisa singing act four stages had the list of the
Speaker 1: songs on my first album, because if there were a
Speaker 1: few that we brought to him. But he liked what
Speaker 1: we our ideas and we wanted to get away from
Speaker 1: the nostalgia thing because we didn't want people to compare
Speaker 1: it to what we used to do. We wanted to
Speaker 1: do something totally different and and also more commercial. We
Speaker 1: ended up with Fire getting our first goal single, and
Speaker 1: it made such a difference. We had gold albums and
Speaker 1: we never had a gold single before. But once we
Speaker 1: got that gold single, everything that shot up. Everything just
Speaker 1: went hey, it went crazy. You know, I wish I
Speaker 1: had written that song, Bruce song you guys like Howard
Speaker 1: Songs presented to you. Richard Perry brought it to us
Speaker 1: and I heard it was originally recorded and written for
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley. But because when they brought it in and
Speaker 1: played it for too like I'm running in your call
Speaker 1: wait to turn on the radio, and I said what
Speaker 1: I said, maybe Ruthy should singing, he said, I want
Speaker 1: you to sing it and nice. So our first gold single, well,
Speaker 1: that was a kind of another, uh, kind of a
Speaker 1: mold breaking experience too, because there you ran into like
Speaker 1: you did with the country music, black girls don't sing
Speaker 1: rock and roll. That was a crazy idea. I don't
Speaker 1: know where he got that from, but that's what I
Speaker 1: read that. Because Richard Perry that second album, Priority, we
Speaker 1: had so success for the first album and then Priority
Speaker 1: we put that out and it was like all rock
Speaker 1: and roll, it's so good. I love it, and they
Speaker 1: wouldn't play it. The radio said they refused to play
Speaker 1: it because there's no such thing as black rock and roll.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that? Like a rocket heart? What do
Speaker 1: they think started it? Really? Where from? But then black
Speaker 1: radio couldn't play it either. It's like a rocket Sure,
Speaker 1: they just weren't weren't allowed to play it because you know,
Speaker 1: they owned by the white bo It's didn't up to
Speaker 1: go to the bath fan. Yeah, okay, love it, well,
Speaker 1: I love I love the fact your label wasn't discouraged
Speaker 1: or yeah, because because our producer loved rock and roll.
Speaker 1: I mean he, I mean he was friends with Tina
Speaker 1: Turner and you know, Rod Stewart and all of them
Speaker 1: would always be at his house and stuff, and he
Speaker 1: he loved it. And he felt that from getting that
Speaker 1: first album through with all the you know, the things
Speaker 1: that were on there, and he figured, well they then
Speaker 1: any plus, he was producer of the Year, he was
Speaker 1: the cser of the year, he got awards, accolades all
Speaker 1: and so he figured, I can do this, you know,
Speaker 1: and they'll accepted from me. And they didn't even know
Speaker 1: I'm a rock and roll guy too, and you know,
Speaker 1: and they did, they didn't, they wouldn't accept it. Dang,
Speaker 1: it's still hard for him too. So yeah, progress been
Speaker 1: slow for the Special Things album. Um, I know that
Speaker 1: the burying Cynthia, right, he's so shy. I know Cynthia. Well,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, okay, I gotta look, he's so shy us
Speaker 1: Tom and before yeah, Barry became a songwriting partner. You guys,
Speaker 1: how how was that song? Oh? It was so much fun, Toms.
Speaker 1: We worked with him before on something else. I can't
Speaker 1: remember what song. But when he brought us, he so shy,
Speaker 1: and they just loved the song and it was easy
Speaker 1: to sing and people loved it and and I think
Speaker 1: guys loved it because we could sing to them, you know,
Speaker 1: and most guys are shyten to bed before that happened
Speaker 1: on the Love Boat with Isaac and you went to
Speaker 1: school with him. I went to high school with Ted.
Speaker 1: We were and we were in plays all the time. Yea.
Speaker 1: His mother had a radio show there. Yeah, Dr Militant.
Speaker 1: We had a great drama teacher, Mr Wayne, And we
Speaker 1: still keep in touch with him, and Ted is still
Speaker 1: writing things, and I'd be I get in touch with
Speaker 1: them every now and then. We're not in touch like
Speaker 1: we should be. But I loved ted, and we went
Speaker 1: to high school together, and we were in all the
Speaker 1: plays together in high school. I really thought I would
Speaker 1: get into acting more than saying, because I really liked it.
Speaker 1: But once I started auditioning, I said, oh no, this
Speaker 1: is not for me. Spa washing, oh yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: Car wash was so much fun. Oh god, that was
Speaker 1: so much fun. Working with Richard Pryor. I'm a kid
Speaker 1: and he had us lap at all, but it was hilarious.
Speaker 1: And we went to his house and hung out with
Speaker 1: him there after, you know, the show shooting and stuff,
Speaker 1: and went on the road shows on the road with
Speaker 1: him at that place and where is that Jersey? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're opened for him at that place and back east
Speaker 1: and I can't remember. And he would get out on stage.
Speaker 1: The planters took us. Won't give me no. I love
Speaker 1: the point of I love him, but they won't give me.
Speaker 1: What was it like working with Norman Whitfield. You gotta
Speaker 1: believe what was he like in the studio. He was wonderful.
Speaker 1: He loved us. How he know we should have had
Speaker 1: the hit song he knows that it was his group
Speaker 1: Rose roy So and they did a fabulous job and
Speaker 1: they were wonderful, but he knows that should have been
Speaker 1: our song. He wanted us to sound like the Female Temptations.
Speaker 1: We were. I was up at Ruthie's apartment, Gary Strongbird
Speaker 1: I think it was, who was one of the producers.
Speaker 1: Was that I beat his house? Remember I eat his
Speaker 1: house and we went down there and Gary Shamberg was
Speaker 1: there and he said he's doing a movie. I would say, well, God,
Speaker 1: put us in the movie, you know, if you're doing
Speaker 1: a movie. What I said. We were hot at the time.
Speaker 1: We had hit songs and on TV and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So he did. He called us the next day and
Speaker 1: say we got We wrote you in And it wasn't
Speaker 1: a big part, but it was a fabulous time. It was.
Speaker 1: Yeah but Bill Rich, Yeah, yeah, you got to believe
Speaker 1: in something. Yeah, why not believe in me? Yeah? That
Speaker 1: was too much. But how many days did it take
Speaker 1: the shoot? Was it just like a one day shoot
Speaker 1: or no? It was like a week? Yeah, a week
Speaker 1: because yeah, it was fun and the last day um
Speaker 1: of shooting, we had our own little rap party. We
Speaker 1: were all so happy that it was over. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And then we got a call the next morning saying
Speaker 1: we need close ups. I thought I was gonna die
Speaker 1: close up today. I was ready all night. I don't know.
Speaker 1: They was crazy. I ran into Rose Royce and Beijing.
Speaker 1: Really she's performing over there? Yeah you no, No, My
Speaker 1: wife and I were just visiting and of course were friends.
Speaker 1: And of course she didn't. She wasn't very friendly. And
Speaker 1: then I found out the back story and found out
Speaker 1: that that they had been brought into the studio by Norman.
Speaker 1: I think to say, seeing it like the point of
Speaker 1: Sisters and though that's a long time to hold, she said, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: she didn't say anything. Yea why she was so unfriendly
Speaker 1: to us because I introduced myself. They were very rude
Speaker 1: to Rose Royce while we were in the studio. They
Speaker 1: were that Norman Whitfield was tough and he wanted to
Speaker 1: show that you know, sing it again and say it better,
Speaker 1: you can sing it better than that? Wow, please up there,
Speaker 1: come on out then, And it was really just hard
Speaker 1: on them. I couldn't understand because I never had a
Speaker 1: producer talk to me that way, and he didn't, No,
Speaker 1: he didn't talk to us that way at all they
Speaker 1: sing it at all. We got it right. We don't
Speaker 1: want to get that us, so we got it right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was a great honor to work with him. He's
Speaker 1: such a legend and the world another will miss. Bonnie
Speaker 1: studied under Cecil Brown, who did a biography of Richard
Speaker 1: Pryor at Merritt College in oak And he did a
Speaker 1: biography of Richard Cecil Brown. He wrote some wonderful books
Speaker 1: stagger Lee and you're talking you mean a book book? Okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but he wrote a biography. Would you study Oakland Mills College,
Speaker 1: Married College? What did you study here? Art? Visual art? Yes,
Speaker 1: we gotta get got to get a new and Berkeley College.
Speaker 1: What was it like doing well? How did y'all get
Speaker 1: the call? I guess for the pinball thing? Oh? Yes,
Speaker 1: I don't know how we got they come back, They
Speaker 1: called and asked us to do it, and we went
Speaker 1: over to San Francisco and we took our kids. I
Speaker 1: had Jada was there, and Vaughn and Malick I thought
Speaker 1: she'd gone, and Nandi were there. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think so Fritz's kids. My kids were very cool. Were
Speaker 1: you getting in the studio with Herbie was he there
Speaker 1: at the time. What the pinball machine was handcuffed? No,
Speaker 1: that pen moll machine is Sesame Street? But who music
Speaker 1: was music? We were told that Herbie Hancock did the music.
Speaker 1: Really where we weren't there. I don't even know we
Speaker 1: did it. We did sing one the four or five
Speaker 1: nine eleven different times. Yeah, and we did the cool, cool,
Speaker 1: craziestwing in alphabets. Okay, Well, it's interesting to tell when
Speaker 1: they talk about how the technology has developed and how
Speaker 1: when they were singing earlier on they didn't have this loopings.
Speaker 1: We had the twelve hundred times we would be in
Speaker 1: the studio till our heads feel like one of one
Speaker 1: of our usually it's six of us and one of
Speaker 1: our members unpaid. Bill is paid Bill. That's his name.
Speaker 1: He's now the Joe proposal of of Sesame Street. He
Speaker 1: like beautiful. He was going through all the old tapes
Speaker 1: and realized that you guys had to do twelve individual
Speaker 1: versions of that song. And wow, that I don't remember about.
Speaker 1: I'm glad it wasn't. Yeah, you all be at the studio.
Speaker 1: What time is it we have to be there? Now?
Speaker 1: I have a question, because I know that you always
Speaker 1: wanted to know you wrote on the special Things Out.
Speaker 1: Uh could I be dreaming? Yeah? Can I ask you something?
Speaker 1: How much have influenced the Jackson Shake Your by It
Speaker 1: Down to the Ground have on that song? You know what?
Speaker 1: I didn't think a minute. But the thing is the
Speaker 1: track was done by Trevor Lawrence, my friend. He brought
Speaker 1: me the track. I wrote the lyrics. I never never
Speaker 1: even entered my mind anything about Michael Jackson or the Jackson's.
Speaker 1: And when a friend I played it for a friend
Speaker 1: and she told me that I wanted to pop her
Speaker 1: in the Jackson's. It was so hard. I'm like, that's
Speaker 1: one of the best songs I ever wrote song when
Speaker 1: radio first started playing it, and that's something A minute. Wow,
Speaker 1: that was that was really cold, you know because really
Speaker 1: thanks for you to say that, you know, and the
Speaker 1: first there are songs that sounded like I'll there all
Speaker 1: the time. I know they wouldn't play mine. Here's the thing,
Speaker 1: here's because you're Anita Pointer in your black stop. Here's
Speaker 1: the thing. You're not a Jackson. We just we just
Speaker 1: had Randy Jackson on the show for him. For him,
Speaker 1: he admitted that shake Your Body Down to the Ground
Speaker 1: was basically his version of Teddy Pendergrass's Get Up, Get Down.
Speaker 1: Believe me, you know what. We'd take some songs all
Speaker 1: the time. But I swear to God if when I
Speaker 1: was doing that song, I had no there was no inkling,
Speaker 1: no thought about the Jackson song at all. We've had
Speaker 1: songs that we've taken from John Lee hook right, you
Speaker 1: know that we've done, and we you know, did some
Speaker 1: things from his. We did that on it was bet
Speaker 1: you gotta check on the side. Really don't, don't. I'm
Speaker 1: used to say that, But I believe me, I'm proud
Speaker 1: to say whoever, because that's what music is all about,
Speaker 1: going round and round and you know, coming back and
Speaker 1: in and and so I would never not admit that
Speaker 1: I took the Jackson song for for could I be dreaming?
Speaker 1: Because I never thought about the Jackson and the music
Speaker 1: and I gave you that narration I wanted to be heard,
Speaker 1: and they won't even play the damn song and they
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna flask somebody. It's how things like that happened.
Speaker 1: Like when I was writing the song man with the
Speaker 1: Right Rhythm, Janet came out with Rhythm Nation, and even
Speaker 1: when I did uh, when I did, Could I be dreaming?
Speaker 1: Germaine or one of the brothers came out with tell
Speaker 1: me I'm not dreaming, you know, keep your mouth shut,
Speaker 1: hand sad. That one. I was, oh my god, you guys, yeah,
Speaker 1: Michael nature, human nature. Yeah, that became like the women's
Speaker 1: national anthem. You know, I called it the American female
Speaker 1: anthem because it certainly speaks to today's hashtag me too.
Speaker 1: You see a company, no nonce saying slowly reminds me
Speaker 1: of just being a kid, and like hearing now on
Speaker 1: the radio and kind of like a god, like a
Speaker 1: country continue. I used to look like that. They're Nashville writers,
Speaker 1: John betts In, Michael Clark, Okay, yeah them. I just
Speaker 1: been hearing that song and like Crystal Gale and like
Speaker 1: all those But that's easy to defert, you to digest
Speaker 1: and accept other songs like the Kenny Rodgers, the Dolly
Speaker 1: Partons and whatnot. I loved it. I thought it was
Speaker 1: a great song. I'm glad to sing it. And you
Speaker 1: know what, not many people know that a lot of
Speaker 1: people believe that I'm so excited debuted on breakout, not
Speaker 1: knowing that two years beforehand it was going I'm so excited, excited?
Speaker 1: What was what was the reasoning behind re releasing it
Speaker 1: for Breakout? I begged Richard Perry because I said, this
Speaker 1: song as a here, that's a shame too much, and
Speaker 1: so whenever you let this song go to waste, and
Speaker 1: it's a great song, and they just made me sick
Speaker 1: not listening to us. And they put it on the
Speaker 1: first album and then put out American Music as a single.
Speaker 1: You know, we're all patriotic, and yeah, I tell you.
Speaker 1: And then I said, David, come on, you know, we
Speaker 1: wrote with all our hearts and this is a great
Speaker 1: song and you can't let it go. We want this
Speaker 1: on the next album, and he did it. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't know if that had ever been done before,
Speaker 1: but I said, you got to do that. You gotta
Speaker 1: save this song and get it back out there. It
Speaker 1: was on the brick Out album and it was on
Speaker 1: the so excited at the album was titled, and they
Speaker 1: still wouldn't blay it. That's ridiculous, you know, And then
Speaker 1: it put it on the next album and coming out
Speaker 1: as an instant hit. So you're telling me that because again,
Speaker 1: I mean, I was listening to black radio exclusively, like
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, but it wasn't like I
Speaker 1: was taking the charts of the billboard, none of that stuff.
Speaker 1: But I heard it a lot. But you're saying that
Speaker 1: from your perspective in eighty two. When it first came
Speaker 1: out One So Excited album, it wasn't a hit. It
Speaker 1: wasn't a hit hit like across the board in your
Speaker 1: eyes or numbers wise, it just wasn't right right, not
Speaker 1: until it got on the breakout album. So in your mind,
Speaker 1: unless it's a pop hit officially, like covering all bases
Speaker 1: of the black charts in and pop radio, then it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's satisfactory or well, when you get the numbers, the
Speaker 1: ratings from people buying the album, you know, that's the
Speaker 1: main way to judge it, I guess. And the end
Speaker 1: of meeting the requests for playing your songs, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's a whole different market now though, with Instagram and
Speaker 1: streaming music, and people don't buy it. They just streaming
Speaker 1: and downloaded. They downloaded and they paid for that, right. Well,
Speaker 1: that's That's one of the things that David David mentioned too,
Speaker 1: is that it was alternative radio that really promoted the
Speaker 1: point of Sisters early because Black Radio wasn't playing them,
Speaker 1: and they still have problems playing the Point of Sisters
Speaker 1: for whatever reasons. I don't know they can at least
Speaker 1: I can't get hardly any of nothing. They was definitely
Speaker 1: playing I'm so excited on w DS in Philly, So
Speaker 1: don't do at least I'm so excited. I would. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was excited Neutron Dance. Well, yeah, I mean Breakout
Speaker 1: was just short of thriller that had seven singles on it.
Speaker 1: So were you shocked at the at the mass exceptance
Speaker 1: of of Breakout the album? And how shocked and thrilled, happy,
Speaker 1: just elated? Yeah, it was wonderful to have an album
Speaker 1: go triple platinum. So we had Ali Willis on our show.
Speaker 1: We have Anita point around all right, so we heard
Speaker 1: were she explained to this that that song almost didn't
Speaker 1: make Beverly Hills cop Like the way that it was
Speaker 1: discovered by the producers was kind of by accident. Yeah,
Speaker 1: were you guys are all aware of how it was
Speaker 1: at it last minute? Like by accident? Somewhat? I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't remember the whole story, but I remember there
Speaker 1: being some conflict with the lyric and thinking of neutron
Speaker 1: bombs and you know song about war that and something
Speaker 1: I'm so happy doing it was what she said, Yes
Speaker 1: she did. I think there's some deep irony in there,
Speaker 1: though she's been very sarcastic, deeply sardonic. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not just you know, she she's really saying, you know,
Speaker 1: you really just where you want the world to go?
Speaker 1: Can you? Can you really you know, deal with I
Speaker 1: don't want to take anymore exactly, I'll stay here locked
Speaker 1: behind the door, right, So it happens with time away
Speaker 1: because now I can't separate it from a truck chasing
Speaker 1: the back of that. Time also said somebody actually stole
Speaker 1: trying to steal her brand new Chevrolett that's right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then I have no Yeah. That was good. Though.
Speaker 1: We go back to um So Excited album for a second. Huh,
Speaker 1: you're go ahead. You guys covered one of my favorite
Speaker 1: songs on that record, Princess I Feel for You. Where
Speaker 1: did that from? Richard Perry? He brought it to us
Speaker 1: and we love Prince. Prince had come into the studio
Speaker 1: to watch us record one time, and and so he
Speaker 1: invited us to come to Paisley Park and do it there.
Speaker 1: And that's where we did what we did? What was that?
Speaker 1: Like he had all his his factory upstairs where they
Speaker 1: made all his clothes, slow shoes, everything to match. And
Speaker 1: and he had like a cave area where he had
Speaker 1: the Purple Rain motorcycle. And it was a whole big
Speaker 1: room there with pillows on the floor. I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to envision because I haven't been back so long, with
Speaker 1: pillows on the floor, and and you know, silk on
Speaker 1: the walls, and and the eyes watching you. From the painting,
Speaker 1: there's too many murals of his face with the eyes
Speaker 1: watching whatever that it's like the three Stooges, like like
Speaker 1: you walk one after they did the big remodel for
Speaker 1: the for the kids. No, I went before and after,
Speaker 1: but I thought the eyes weren't up there until after
Speaker 1: they after they remodeled, well in two thousand was that?
Speaker 1: That was after when they remodeled. Okay, we were there
Speaker 1: before that. Eyes were watching, watching with breakout. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's just unprecedented that six albums, six singles from
Speaker 1: one album. Oh yeah, make I'm sort of thriller. That's
Speaker 1: this is unprecedented than like what was it? What was
Speaker 1: the labels? Reaction to you guys as far as like
Speaker 1: were you there, priority were you there? Um? They were happy.
Speaker 1: That sounds happy we got by that time, I mean,
Speaker 1: having such a huge record, where was the biggest source
Speaker 1: of coome coming from? And did the tour money go up?
Speaker 1: Like help the tour money go up? Yeah, we got
Speaker 1: good tourings and and as the years go up, the
Speaker 1: publishing gets better. Yeah. I've seen you guys twice during
Speaker 1: that period. That was like the only nine Jackson Prince
Speaker 1: show that I've ever seen. So you guys once at
Speaker 1: a Universal Amphitheater. Yeah, that would line over. Uh No,
Speaker 1: the year after you guys were at Universal Amphitheater by
Speaker 1: yourselves and five I'll remember is uh was June came
Speaker 1: out in a crazy outfit to do her solo song
Speaker 1: about the piano or something. Oh yeah, like give me
Speaker 1: a fucking break, guys, like it was. She had a
Speaker 1: great common time as he did that doctor doctor a
Speaker 1: bit on stage. I don't know if that was the
Speaker 1: one tress like a nurse and piano And hey, are
Speaker 1: you guys aware of Dremi's second life in the sort
Speaker 1: of the euro Edium world, No tell me about Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's it's sort of uh, how can I
Speaker 1: describe it, Like I forget, I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: scritics or like someone that's big in the medium world,
Speaker 1: the electric electric dance music answer music world sort of
Speaker 1: like kind of took Daremy and sort of remade it.
Speaker 1: And it's it's weird because when I spend the original
Speaker 1: in clubs now, like the artist store, like, and then
Speaker 1: when I get to the hook, they're like, oh ship,
Speaker 1: then you know, like they get where it comes from.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's a it's a big sample in the
Speaker 1: median world. I didn't know that so or is it
Speaker 1: so that? Is that still in the current lineup? As
Speaker 1: far as your songs like that you do now? Or
Speaker 1: is it? Do you do well? I don't. I'm not
Speaker 1: on the road anymore. I didn't know that, not until
Speaker 1: this morning. Ruth, my sister Ruth and her daughter Issa
Speaker 1: and her granddaughter Sadako are traveling as the new Pointers. Okay,
Speaker 1: and I retired. I'm enjoying it. Started working on this book,
Speaker 1: start working on the book, your exhibition Champagne King, and
Speaker 1: people like, oh, how was doing great? Yea, I do
Speaker 1: you know? And then a lot of the old rock
Speaker 1: and roll stars and disco should I say disco stars?
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah. I also I'll say that I also
Speaker 1: believe that you guys deserve to be in the rock
Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame, and they would, you know,
Speaker 1: from my mouth to their ears, right right right? That
Speaker 1: should happen. So the book comes out in February. Comes
Speaker 1: out in February. Yeah, we're just so excited about that.
Speaker 1: We're going to have a book signing up in Oakland,
Speaker 1: and Anita's working on another book of exhibition. She's been
Speaker 1: saving their costumes for the last what thirty years, and
Speaker 1: she's got all of them. She has all of them,
Speaker 1: and she's now created a book because she's all sorry
Speaker 1: up the nineties. Person told me over a hundred pages
Speaker 1: now of costumes that they wanted. This is a mini book.
Speaker 1: We have a big book that that just gives you
Speaker 1: a few of the things that we have. But how
Speaker 1: are you whoa you do? Okay? This is official how
Speaker 1: to our listeners out there. I'm looking at, uh, manage
Speaker 1: your book the size of c D booklet of all
Speaker 1: their how were you able to preserve? And just those
Speaker 1: they're they're well cared for. They're in their Bob Mackie
Speaker 1: the first designer, and then Florid Tharmer from Australia, like
Speaker 1: the designers seeking you guys out of it, Well, you
Speaker 1: might be long designed for all the New York plays
Speaker 1: and things. He's really great and we're gonna it's gonna
Speaker 1: be digital, so you can go on. We'll go the
Speaker 1: music will send it out to the museums digital. We
Speaker 1: went and looked at today. Can get the password to
Speaker 1: enter the book online so we can let them see
Speaker 1: what we have in the clothes in the side and
Speaker 1: you know, yes, anywhere they'll take one. Actually, yeah, we
Speaker 1: have a Are you guys aware of the well I
Speaker 1: keep calling the black Sony, That's what I call it.
Speaker 1: It is the black um in d C. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: you went there. We're in there. Yea. We want to
Speaker 1: pay some more in there. Do you want someone there?
Speaker 1: We can get us some stuff. We have a hook
Speaker 1: up for you. You do. He's probably listening to hear it.
Speaker 1: I have black then there, I know what the blank was.
Speaker 1: How many children is it? Did you guys have like
Speaker 1: in the Brew of the next generation, the next Uh, Well,
Speaker 1: Fritz has four. I'm Barren, I have one my daughter,
Speaker 1: sorry to say, my daughter died in two thousand and three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that kind of killed me. That's why I slowly
Speaker 1: just had to stop. I had to stop going on
Speaker 1: the road and singing. And her only child. So that's
Speaker 1: not getting It's very hard. I don't wish it on anyone.
Speaker 1: It's the worst thing ever. I'll never get over it.
Speaker 1: It's just terrible. Now that's go and move on to
Speaker 1: happier thought. Yeah, he has and our older brother, Aaron
Speaker 1: has three four for three or four Barberca and you
Speaker 1: have four and two sons. Ye, your family. You know,
Speaker 1: we've never had a family reunion. What never we have?
Speaker 1: We have we're going to. I mean when we were
Speaker 1: kids in Oakland and our coming over and barbecue and
Speaker 1: all the family would be there. That'd be like our
Speaker 1: family re union. You know, that was all the time.
Speaker 1: But we lived together. The Green Shirts they let down.
Speaker 1: We lived out there exactly. Y'all know that family hasn't
Speaker 1: expanded and folks don't know each other. We are at
Speaker 1: that point in our family now where it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's travel to see family. Make coach come with the
Speaker 1: West coast half of the people and there are some
Speaker 1: people on shows that say what you credit and they
Speaker 1: go something pointer and I go, what your family? Who
Speaker 1: are they? Right? The majority of the majority of the
Speaker 1: family in Oakland still or are you guys spread Oh
Speaker 1: we're spread out now counties to Oakland. Yeah. My brothers Tacoma.
Speaker 1: My brother is he's been there for thirty years. Kids.
Speaker 1: Do they want to do music as well? Or are
Speaker 1: they working on music? I have a son who started
Speaker 1: studio into music. My son is Yeah, but that's the
Speaker 1: only one that we know up right now. There's different
Speaker 1: aspects of my granddaughter. Roxy does music. Daughter, Yes, that's
Speaker 1: my granddaughter, and she does music when she's got hundreds
Speaker 1: of incredible tracks. And I'm telling her when my chop
Speaker 1: liver can I say? She says, she's working on this
Speaker 1: the right thing she wants me to do. It's a
Speaker 1: jail for your grandma, her room and joint. However, they've
Speaker 1: been working on some great stuff. Alvin is a rapper
Speaker 1: and he is I love his rapping, don't you love it?
Speaker 1: And they've been doing something doing some great stuff. I'm
Speaker 1: proud of. There's there's one proud of, y'all. Yeah, there's one.
Speaker 1: Forgot what was it like being a part of USA
Speaker 1: for Africa. Oh god, what a night. We had just
Speaker 1: come from though, I think the A m A Awards
Speaker 1: and went to the studio and I was in awe.
Speaker 1: Everybody top secret like all these famous people and be
Speaker 1: about it and was a top secret like we found
Speaker 1: out like the day before because they sent us sheet
Speaker 1: music and a cassette. And you have in the frame
Speaker 1: Rincy's house and he has the lead sheet framed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta lead sheet with everybody's I went around that
Speaker 1: night and made everybody signed music, and I got it
Speaker 1: all my frame there. Gonna have intimidated by anybody that
Speaker 1: was in the room where you guys, Like everybody everybody
Speaker 1: was like you, Oh my god, Oh my god, you're
Speaker 1: trying to be cool. Michael Jackson, you want to Lionel Richie, Yes,
Speaker 1: it's wonderful, right, yes, Bett Midler else was there? No,
Speaker 1: not Liz what Sheili was there? I think that's that's
Speaker 1: Oakland too, Ryeah. And LaToya Jackson was like right beside me. Turner.
Speaker 1: That was a wonderful, wonderful night. I mean we got
Speaker 1: out of there the death the sun was coming out.
Speaker 1: We were there all night. Did you Olliver have any
Speaker 1: experiences with Aretha while she was alone. No, Ruth, Ruth
Speaker 1: had some competition with Aretha for Dennis Edwards, he didn't
Speaker 1: in fact, in fact, in fact, her daughter's singing with her.
Speaker 1: Her daughter who singing with her is a product of
Speaker 1: Ruth and Dennis Edwards, and she and Maria were dating
Speaker 1: Dennis like the same time. Wow, wow, so frozen. I
Speaker 1: don't even see myself. I'm doing myself back right now.
Speaker 1: Too much information, baby, Well you know I just say
Speaker 1: that enough, can I? This is a pleasant, pleasant surprise. Again,
Speaker 1: Bonnie's such a fan of of my reviewers for the longest,
Speaker 1: so I'm glad to finally admit I never thought I
Speaker 1: would meet you. Thank you the same for you and
Speaker 1: your whole family. And again yes, rock and roll hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. Um, we got a star on the Hollywood
Speaker 1: inmea Arkansas Black hall of Fame and everything. I just
Speaker 1: want to say that eto something fun I said earlier today.
Speaker 1: You guys were my childhood, and every time I listen
Speaker 1: to your music, I'm just taking back to such a
Speaker 1: wonderful place in time just to be sitting across from
Speaker 1: you guys, like beside out here we see we taught
Speaker 1: you well. I see that t shirt you have on.
Speaker 1: You got a lot of good information from the morning.
Speaker 1: One question before before were maybe Staples? Was she an influence?
Speaker 1: Oh lord, Yeah, we were listening to a song we
Speaker 1: were doing We did Respect Yourself, Yes, in Vegas, and
Speaker 1: Fritz brought up a CD and played it. We played
Speaker 1: it last night with us singing in Vegas at Caesar's
Speaker 1: Palace singing Respect Yourself. Maybe we were on the road,
Speaker 1: but yeah, and Fritz was very good friends with Maybe
Speaker 1: Staples and we had some fun, fun times. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I was also the friends with with Purvis. He was
Speaker 1: a good friend of nine. She here, we'll go to
Speaker 1: those nightclubs and you go in there. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is the gun sitting right there on the desk
Speaker 1: where we have sound check on the desk. I just
Speaker 1: got one of the silhouettes from that to you know
Speaker 1: that is that's a tattoo. Look on the bat tattoo.
Speaker 1: You got to be like a SoundCloud rapper. Put it
Speaker 1: on your face. Yes, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on the show today. I love
Speaker 1: you Team Supreme and the Pointer sisters and brother Fritz,
Speaker 1: Like every English professor. I had what you said? What
Speaker 1: was word you said? It was? It was? What was
Speaker 1: the words you used? She had something got some words
Speaker 1: but as well, I don't forget fonte English as well
Speaker 1: as African American study. You gotta pe. He got the
Speaker 1: dashiki and got on the grill. He got on the
Speaker 1: grilling samples. Yeah, yes, prison like the grill. Frists about. Okay,
Speaker 1: show me a little necklace. Face matches hisself some tattoo
Speaker 1: tattoos pointed to the necklace. People don't get you got one? Okay, okay, yeah, head,
Speaker 1: you gotta gotta get a hat sometime. I like your
Speaker 1: bras Bengal to fish. That's from the people in West Africa.
Speaker 1: How do you like my my Bengal? What does it say?
Speaker 1: I could just see them glasses. It says fall risk
Speaker 1: because I fall on that Love Supreme. We will see
Speaker 1: you next go around. Thank you? What's love Supreme? This
Speaker 1: is a production my Heart Radio. This classic episode was
Speaker 1: produced by the team at PADOR. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.