Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode Quest of Supreme.
Speaker 1: I'm giving me full warning right now essential was going
Speaker 1: to be very awkward. I will try not to make
Speaker 1: our guest today feel uncomfortable, uh, and straight away from
Speaker 1: fan worship and just try to be as professional as
Speaker 1: I can. Um. I will say though that, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: every journey has to start with a spark, every journey,
Speaker 1: So me personally, I will say that, you know, before
Speaker 1: directing and producing and developing TV shows and podcast hosting
Speaker 1: and movie and TV scoring and late night house band
Speaker 1: leading and producing and songwriting for artists and when they
Speaker 1: d Jane music education, designing, flatwear, my own sneaker line,
Speaker 1: clothes merch, my own drum line, UM, teaching college, whatever
Speaker 1: it is, I will say, um that there still has
Speaker 1: to be a spark, and that spark starts with a
Speaker 1: love of music and more specifically playing music and specifically
Speaker 1: the drums. Everyone knows my passion is drumming. UM. In
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventy five, while on the road with my
Speaker 1: musician parents in Toronto, Canada, on a Saturday, I caught
Speaker 1: an episode of My All time favorite television show, Soul
Speaker 1: Train and Day. It absolutely piqued my curiosity. You know,
Speaker 1: I was already a fan of the average white band
Speaker 1: UM and they're scary asked logo, UM, but my four
Speaker 1: year old self was transfixed on the one figure on
Speaker 1: stage who was neither white nor average. UM sitting behind
Speaker 1: a white forty one in fifty seven wouldn't gretch's drum kit.
Speaker 1: I kind of made a declaration, mostly to myself, that
Speaker 1: what that guy is doing, that's what I want to
Speaker 1: do for the rest of my life. Um, And pretty
Speaker 1: much from that point forward, any album that adorned that
Speaker 1: weird logo of a white woman's asked in the place
Speaker 1: of the w uh. We copped those records and I
Speaker 1: studied it and kind of molded myself in our guest image.
Speaker 1: And what really makes that sentence weird is I think
Speaker 1: the only time I really allowed myself uh to morph
Speaker 1: into the style of our guests was probably seven years
Speaker 1: into my career. I wanted the side project called the
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Experiment. I want a song called in It the
Speaker 1: Truth and which I kind of immersed myself, uh kind
Speaker 1: of what would frowny due moment and look if I'm
Speaker 1: talking too much advanced math. Uh, I'm gonna slow down.
Speaker 1: Look even on a hip hop level, his drums are everywhere,
Speaker 1: nas Is Halftime, Eric be Rock Hims, Microphone, Fien, TLCS,
Speaker 1: ain't too proudly big, try called question, check the rhyme
Speaker 1: and w ways if they ain't rusting in right gang
Speaker 1: Stars gotta get over Grand Nubian word is Bond, Juckle Brothers,
Speaker 1: the promo Chill rop g J Rhymes, start Us Music
Speaker 1: Sounds Better with You, Kanye West, Through the Wire, Mary J. Blige,
Speaker 1: Love is All We Need and Love without a Limit,
Speaker 1: pe Rocket Sell Smooth, Take You There, b I G
Speaker 1: Is notorious, but not even just the samples, just the
Speaker 1: iconic songs. I'm every Woman, Clouds, what You're Gonna do
Speaker 1: for Me? All Night Thing, on the Wings of Love,
Speaker 1: Tears in Heaven, Love Girl, Earth Song, keep Rising to
Speaker 1: the Top, glow Um and name the all the iconic artists.
Speaker 1: They're not official until he's the timekeeper, so name him.
Speaker 1: Freddy King, Brian Augury, Bloodstone, Bett Miller, Aretha Franklin, Sherlyn,
Speaker 1: Paul Simon, Melissa Manchester. I chose he's gonna get awkward.
Speaker 1: Stephen Christie McVie, Scurty, Politty, Mick Jagger, Uh, Patty Austin,
Speaker 1: George Benson, People, Bryson, Jennifer Holiday, Duran Duran, Algrue, Howard Jones,
Speaker 1: Cindy Lauper, Anita Baker, George Harrison, Etta, James Marcus, Miller,
Speaker 1: Bryan Ferry, Tracy Chapman, Johnny Cash, Zin Keep, Marley Slash,
Speaker 1: Steven Nick's Lean Rhymes, Steve Perry, and of course Tom
Speaker 1: Petty and the Heartbreakers. Um, I will say that pretty much.
Speaker 1: You know, this guy is my hero, Even before Prince,
Speaker 1: before Michael Jackson, I've been dying to have a conversation
Speaker 1: with a person that gave me the spark to fall
Speaker 1: in love with music. Thank you very much for talking
Speaker 1: to me, Steve for Room, all right, that wasn't too awkward, right,
Speaker 1: it was just a five minute that was That was
Speaker 1: pretty That was pretty cool. There's a little people. I
Speaker 1: didn't even know no. When we did the Elvis Costello episode, Uh,
Speaker 1: my engineer, Steve, his intro was about twenty four minutes,
Speaker 1: So my my initial intro was like seventeen, but I
Speaker 1: cut it down to a good five. But was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite rap groups so which one was it?
Speaker 1: AMG really wow, okay I did I didn't even It's
Speaker 1: like Janine they used that, they used them, uh schoolboy
Speaker 1: crush for Jane Janine the reprise all right, Wow, you're
Speaker 1: you're you're you're highly aware of how you get utilized. Um.
Speaker 1: What I'll say that's weird about this moment is the
Speaker 1: first time that you and I were supposed to talk
Speaker 1: for Quest Left Supreme was on March, which is kind
Speaker 1: of officially the day of the world set down because
Speaker 1: of COVID. Yeah, you were you were doing you were
Speaker 1: doing a residency at a at A thirty Rock sitting
Speaker 1: in on the Seth Meyer Show. And the day that
Speaker 1: we were supposed to speak, that's when we realized that
Speaker 1: we were in a pandemic. So yeah, we we had
Speaker 1: to put that on ice. Now what's even weirder is
Speaker 1: you know I had been begging and begging and begging
Speaker 1: and begging John Mayer and his people, like when you
Speaker 1: come to New York, I gotta go to this show,
Speaker 1: so you know, to really enjoy the experience, so to speak. Um,
Speaker 1: our listeners know that in the pandemic, I started micro docing,
Speaker 1: so you know, I was I was in my zone.
Speaker 1: I was arrived at Madison Square Garden. I was ready
Speaker 1: to really taking the music and enjoy the show. And
Speaker 1: the first thing I do when I see Peano Palladino,
Speaker 1: he tells me dude, And of course, you know, I
Speaker 1: was microdocing. So it sounds like room tested positive. Can
Speaker 1: you sit in? And I was like what like? And literally,
Speaker 1: I was like, well, let me see the set list
Speaker 1: and I was like, wait a minute. I had to
Speaker 1: learn fifteen songs and how many minutes? And they're like
Speaker 1: forty seven minutes. So literally I was like, oh no.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's like I didn't get to
Speaker 1: talk to you, but I got to play on your
Speaker 1: drum set. And what's even weirder is that after two
Speaker 1: and a half years of avoiding this dodgeball of a virus,
Speaker 1: today I finally tested positive. Sol to the club, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're connected and we are connected. Oh my god? You
Speaker 1: know what it's It's like having the sniffles, like I
Speaker 1: was expecting my taste to go away and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm having, Paul Man, I'm staying bed all week,
Speaker 1: I'm watching movies. I'm gonna work, you know, I'm working
Speaker 1: on the Sliding and Family Stone documentary now, so you
Speaker 1: know I'm I'm in fine health. I couldn't be happier
Speaker 1: before I forget congratulations on the Oscar. All right, man,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much. You work way too
Speaker 1: hard for me, work hard, but I worked. I worked fun.
Speaker 1: Where are you right now as we speak, I'm a
Speaker 1: friend of mine's house in Burbank because my house is
Speaker 1: being torn apart by contractors. Okay, we have a lot
Speaker 1: in common. I I also purchased a farm about a
Speaker 1: year and a half ago, and I'm still it's almost
Speaker 1: it's almost a money pit territory. So contractors, you know,
Speaker 1: are working on the contact yesterday saying same, don't same.
Speaker 1: I got, I got the hours two years ago, and
Speaker 1: now you know we're still we're still waiting for it.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I just had to freeze it. Um so
Speaker 1: I'll work. It was just way too much money to
Speaker 1: invest in it, so I gotta wait until maybe October.
Speaker 1: So it'll probably three years before I get inside my house.
Speaker 1: He'll get done when it's supposed to get done. That's
Speaker 1: what I can see, absolutely absolutely right. So you know
Speaker 1: I started off with every episode with the first five
Speaker 1: basic questions. Uh, number one for for our listening artists,
Speaker 1: could you tell us where you were born? I was
Speaker 1: born in Brighton in England, in south coast of England,
Speaker 1: but now south of London. I will say that probably Brighton,
Speaker 1: England ninety four is probably the second best root show
Speaker 1: of all time. What did you play? I don't know.
Speaker 1: We did a gig with Roy Airs and that's where
Speaker 1: we discovered that the engineer of our show is just
Speaker 1: as important as the musicians on stage. And we kind
Speaker 1: of learned, you know, because the thing is is like,
Speaker 1: unlike America, bright And at least has an understanding. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's that a lot of reggae concerts
Speaker 1: over there, but they have a deeper understanding of base,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we realized, like we would just
Speaker 1: push the sound limit like the average show. You know,
Speaker 1: if you trust the sound company, maybe you're allowed to
Speaker 1: do like a hundred two dbs, maybe a hundred eight dbs,
Speaker 1: like we were a hundred and forty dbs. We weren't loud,
Speaker 1: but we just had a lot of base. And so
Speaker 1: at the point where the audience was holding their stomach
Speaker 1: like that, you know, they were getting a colonic still dancing, yeah,
Speaker 1: but still dancing. We realized, like we have to be
Speaker 1: the most offensively loudest band in music, and so you
Speaker 1: know we maybe the first three years we were like
Speaker 1: everyone's nightmare. But nothing compares to that one night with
Speaker 1: Roy Brighton. Like, I know you just celebrated a birthday
Speaker 1: T two, Yes, happy belated, thank you. Um So, I
Speaker 1: know that you were born in nineteen Now you weren't
Speaker 1: born in the States, you know, dealing with Jim Crow
Speaker 1: Deep South racism. But you know, I'm certain that it
Speaker 1: was alive and well across the world. But what does
Speaker 1: it mean to grow up, at least for the first
Speaker 1: ten years of your life in Brighton? Like what experiences
Speaker 1: did you have? You know, Well, there's a there's a
Speaker 1: photographs not around here. I wish I had it with
Speaker 1: me in my house. There's a photograph of me at school.
Speaker 1: I was like the only black kid in school and
Speaker 1: we're watching a Punch and Judy show and guess what,
Speaker 1: we were just having fun. It didn't come into the
Speaker 1: question that I was a different color. I mean when
Speaker 1: I was, when I was little m m okay, until
Speaker 1: one day that I was out with my friends and
Speaker 1: we were playing. I lived in a row of houses
Speaker 1: on a street, and then there was there was this
Speaker 1: alleyway led up to this little college, and then there
Speaker 1: was this crescent with big houses. And in this cottage
Speaker 1: at the top of this little alleyway, there was a
Speaker 1: guy that was retired Harley Harley Street surgeon. And so
Speaker 1: we used to play up. There was a couple of
Speaker 1: trees and we played cowboys and Indians and stuff. And
Speaker 1: we got a bit too close to this guy's house,
Speaker 1: and he came out with a swordstick and and and
Speaker 1: he pulled his swordstick and he said, get out of here,
Speaker 1: making all that noise making, and he put he looked
Speaker 1: right at me with this point of sciences, and you too,
Speaker 1: you black bastard. And I had no idea what it
Speaker 1: was that he said, right, I didn't know. I didn't
Speaker 1: know well what that meant, you know, but I felt it.
Speaker 1: I I burst in the tears and I ran home
Speaker 1: and I told my grandmother living with your grandparents, my
Speaker 1: grandparents and my mom. Yeah, and my father was in
Speaker 1: West Africa, serially owned wow. Okay, okay, but he was
Speaker 1: never around. I mean he showed up when I was
Speaker 1: nine for a couple of days I was about it.
Speaker 1: But my grandmother then told got my grandfather and did
Speaker 1: one of those defend my honor? Oh, you went to
Speaker 1: the house. He went to the house, and my grandfather
Speaker 1: went up there and grabbed this guy and put him
Speaker 1: up against the wall and said, don't you ever talk
Speaker 1: to my grandson like that again. But uh, the way
Speaker 1: that it got explained to me at that point in time,
Speaker 1: I think probably I was maybe five or six years old,
Speaker 1: a little kid. My mother said to me that, she said,
Speaker 1: you know what, there's people out there that think that way,
Speaker 1: and uh, and they're to be pitied, which was something
Speaker 1: that wasn't desirable as far as I didn't want. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to ever be pitied. And so anyway, so that's, um,
Speaker 1: that's what that's that's the way I kind of looked
Speaker 1: at it. But yes, you absolutely right, there's there's there
Speaker 1: was a big difference, the big difference. I believe those
Speaker 1: social problems that bruised Black America and and and I
Speaker 1: see that I see it, and I and and different
Speaker 1: from me because slavery never came into it. Wow, that's
Speaker 1: amazing that I can't even imagine a life yes, slavery
Speaker 1: didn't know. I think there's a difference in the in
Speaker 1: the in the way the things. You know, it's weird. Um.
Speaker 1: So in the States, I'm I'm part of a one percent.
Speaker 1: That's there's one percent of African Americans that can trace
Speaker 1: their family name, their slaveship, and where they came from.
Speaker 1: I'm in that lucky for you. Um. I also found
Speaker 1: out that l O cool j Is there was two
Speaker 1: percent of African Americans that had nothing to do with slavery.
Speaker 1: I guess his family settled in a place in Ohio
Speaker 1: that just didn't have slavery, and like somehow he was
Speaker 1: able to his family was able to avoid any of
Speaker 1: that strife, which is, you know, kind of a rare thing. Um.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me what your first musical memory was? Oh? Well,
Speaker 1: you know what I was told was was that I
Speaker 1: used to sit in the high chair and we didn't
Speaker 1: have TV back then. We had radio, okay, And I'd
Speaker 1: sit in the high chair with my spoon eating and
Speaker 1: then some music would come on and I'd start banging
Speaker 1: my spoon on the on the on the high chair,
Speaker 1: on the table there to just keep in time with
Speaker 1: whatever music was on the radio. And that's was when
Speaker 1: they they decided that my my grand my grandma, my grandmother,
Speaker 1: and my mother decided that I needed to channel that
Speaker 1: that ability somewhere. So my grandmother was a big fan
Speaker 1: of of of tap dancing. She she loved Fred Astare
Speaker 1: and and uh Gene Kelly and Tick tac toe and
Speaker 1: those guys. He was she was aware of them, and
Speaker 1: so she sent me the tap dancing school when I
Speaker 1: was better, as soon as I could walk, about three
Speaker 1: years old. Yeah, I was gonna say, um, I just
Speaker 1: over that about you maybe a week ago when I
Speaker 1: was doing my research, and that's kind of my entry
Speaker 1: and two drums. I went to a perform in art
Speaker 1: school in the first grade and it was one of
Speaker 1: those situations where you go to your drum lesson and
Speaker 1: the drums are right there and you're sort of like,
Speaker 1: let me add him, let me add them, and they're
Speaker 1: like nope, and they point to a practice pad on
Speaker 1: the corner and you got running like your room. That
Speaker 1: It's like it's almost like I had to practice to
Speaker 1: work my way up to the drum set. But even
Speaker 1: before I got to the practice pad, um, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: had to take tap dance. So yeah, all that boj Angles,
Speaker 1: me and my shadow like like I was, I was
Speaker 1: a hoofer like you good at it? I was pretty
Speaker 1: good at it. That was pretty good at it. I
Speaker 1: want medals and stuff? Really can you? Can you still?
Speaker 1: Uh now? Or is that something that lane on my
Speaker 1: feed anymore? But I could probably, I could probably, I
Speaker 1: can do a time step still, okay. Yeah, Like around
Speaker 1: around maybe nine, age nine or each ten, I kind
Speaker 1: of eased out of that and just became strictly like music. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I have to say my first like in
Speaker 1: my moment that you had that you said that you
Speaker 1: had with Average White Band, I had when I was
Speaker 1: about five years old. My parents used to take me.
Speaker 1: They used to take me. We had this, um, I
Speaker 1: guess you call it vaudeville or something like that. Vaudeville
Speaker 1: that there was a theater called the Hippodrome and the
Speaker 1: Beatles played there. Actually, so it's kind of Bingo Hall
Speaker 1: now I think it is. But this is one of
Speaker 1: those theaters have got sort of neglected and sort of
Speaker 1: let go little theater and uh and and they used
Speaker 1: to take me there to see these shows and and
Speaker 1: you know, usually it was comedians and pantomime at Christmas
Speaker 1: and stuff, and they took me there to see this
Speaker 1: show and there was a band. There was a band
Speaker 1: close harmony group called the Deep River Boys from Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: Oh really okay, and they were very very big on
Speaker 1: Radio Luxembourg. Was was where you would where people would
Speaker 1: go to to listen to something other than the BBC,
Speaker 1: because the BBC used to just play classical music, and
Speaker 1: it was that they didn't play anything at all, you know.
Speaker 1: So you got to Radio Luxembourg and you tune into
Speaker 1: Radio Luxembourg and they had a show on there and
Speaker 1: and I guess they also was it was also a
Speaker 1: show that was that was that was good for like
Speaker 1: the American Forces were all over Europe at that point.
Speaker 1: They had a basis in France and Germany and and
Speaker 1: uh and and so they used to be on the
Speaker 1: on the American Forces broadcasting. But they had a regular
Speaker 1: show on this on this and they on Radio Luxembourg
Speaker 1: and they appeared than the Hippodrome. So my parents took
Speaker 1: me down there and they did maybe it was kind
Speaker 1: of like gospel music, but I'd never heard anything like that,
Speaker 1: and I got really excited and started dancing around in
Speaker 1: the in the audience listening to this music is like,
Speaker 1: what's this? You know, where is that? When you find
Speaker 1: vanilla ice cream? You give a vanilla ice cream to
Speaker 1: a baby the first time they have it, They're like,
Speaker 1: why didn't you give me this before? You know you
Speaker 1: got this baby food? Why where was this vanilla ice cream?
Speaker 1: Well that was what what I what I got with
Speaker 1: from their music, and they sent their manager. They took
Speaker 1: me and they brought me backstage and befriended, befriended me.
Speaker 1: They made me deeper with the boys number six, and
Speaker 1: that was the time. That was when I found out
Speaker 1: that I was black. Oh word, yeah, I had no idea.
Speaker 1: I had no idea that I was black until I
Speaker 1: went and saw these guys and they took me back
Speaker 1: back to my parents, my grandment, My mom and my
Speaker 1: grandmother took me back stage to meet them. You know,
Speaker 1: they have been invited back. And I looked at these
Speaker 1: guys and they were six ft tall, which is for them.
Speaker 1: Back then was Gigantic was a giant. And I said, wow,
Speaker 1: I wish I could be black. Blank you guys then
Speaker 1: we never said black was colored because it was disrespectful.
Speaker 1: It was disrespectful to say black but then I wish
Speaker 1: I was coloring like you. And this guy Harry Douglas,
Speaker 1: who I stayed in touch with for years, he passed
Speaker 1: away sometime sometime ago. You maintained a friendship with him, Yes,
Speaker 1: all through the years. Yes, just amazing. And uh, the
Speaker 1: first Americans that you interacted with, Yes, how weird was
Speaker 1: it to hear? Did they have an accent to you?
Speaker 1: I didn't even I was just like, I was just
Speaker 1: so sweet. They I mean, they that's how they sang,
Speaker 1: and they sank, they sad like they were. You know,
Speaker 1: we heard it seemed like we sort of heard about America.
Speaker 1: I think we had TV by then, so every couple
Speaker 1: of TV series that we've seen not much of a
Speaker 1: TV little thing like this black white thing. Right. But
Speaker 1: but Harry Douglas looked at me, he and he said
Speaker 1: to me, says, you know, tonight, I'm gonna cast a spell.
Speaker 1: And when you wake up tomorrow morning, you go look
Speaker 1: in the mirror and you and you'll be you'll be
Speaker 1: colored like we are. To sleep. And I went to sleep,
Speaker 1: and then I got up and I went to the
Speaker 1: mirror and yes, it walked. Anything more about it? Oh God,
Speaker 1: that's a great story. Yeah, do you know what the
Speaker 1: first LP or single that you gravitated towards. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I remember I used to I used to listen a
Speaker 1: lot to Motown, so Northern It's always a thing then
Speaker 1: or was that more of the sixties It was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just it was more of a MUDs and rockers.
Speaker 1: You know, we had these two factors for warring factors,
Speaker 1: and and the rockers used to listen to sort of
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley, sort of rock and roll on skiffle music,
Speaker 1: and the MUDs used to listen to to the Who,
Speaker 1: Motown and Motown and and that. And that was funny
Speaker 1: because we all everybody started to play air base, you know,
Speaker 1: it went from playing like air guitar or just air drums.
Speaker 1: When Motown came out, everybody was so that's what you
Speaker 1: gravituate digging on James Jammes. Yeah, But when it came
Speaker 1: to like playing an instrument, the drums was like I'd learned,
Speaker 1: I'd figured out the mechanics are doing that. But because
Speaker 1: playing in a I got it. I actually got a
Speaker 1: job when I was twelve in a in a in
Speaker 1: a real show. And while I was on the show
Speaker 1: in the kids chorus at this summer show tap dancing
Speaker 1: and singing with this guy named Max Bygraves. It was
Speaker 1: a big star in England. Okay, I looked down into
Speaker 1: the orchestra pit and we did this. We said the
Speaker 1: single world, all that be able to doing the twists?
Speaker 1: You know, let's twist again. We have to be twist
Speaker 1: little little kids with this guy. And I looked down
Speaker 1: and I saw that how she do have his hands
Speaker 1: like that? And so I went upstairs and practice that,
Speaker 1: and then I thought, well, then they had a listened
Speaker 1: a bit more when I was up there twisted and
Speaker 1: said what's he doing with his feet? Wow? Yeah? So
Speaker 1: what what? Uh? Well, I'll re ask the question, do
Speaker 1: you know what the first single or album that you
Speaker 1: purchased with your own money? Because I think it's a
Speaker 1: little different than in your house? Sadly? What is it
Speaker 1: the first single that I got? A bad one? I'll
Speaker 1: share your minds. It was my mother's birthday and I
Speaker 1: asked what she wanted for a birthday and she said
Speaker 1: she wanted green green grass of home. Who thing is that? Frank?
Speaker 1: I think it was a frank Ifield. Oh look there
Speaker 1: comes Mary, that's what your mom heading? To the records.
Speaker 1: Can I get a copy of that? Yeah, A lot
Speaker 1: of people and say like Jackson five or something, But
Speaker 1: the real answer is uh, I think the forty five
Speaker 1: ever purchased was Bad Blood by Niel Sadaka. And only
Speaker 1: only because really I judged I lived in a house
Speaker 1: with like over three thousand records because my parents were
Speaker 1: musicians and the Rocket Company, which was Elton John's label,
Speaker 1: Neil Sadaka's label, I judge records on how good the
Speaker 1: logo looked rotating on. So I like the green and
Speaker 1: blue hue of m c A Rocket Records, and so
Speaker 1: I chose a Bad Blood. So the first time that
Speaker 1: you actually sat on a drum set, like who taught
Speaker 1: you how to play the drums? Like, what's your what's
Speaker 1: your an entry into sitting on a drum set? Well,
Speaker 1: I just what happened was was that when I went
Speaker 1: to when I was after we've done this TV, this run, this,
Speaker 1: this is a show, the summer show. There was a
Speaker 1: place called the Regent ball Room in Brighton and that
Speaker 1: is not there anymore. There's a Boots Chemists now, but
Speaker 1: on Saturday mornings they would have h they'd have it opened.
Speaker 1: There would be a disc jockey, and all the people
Speaker 1: would take their kids there and drop their kids off there,
Speaker 1: and then they go shopping. They go and do their shopping,
Speaker 1: they leave their kids. They were safe places on the
Speaker 1: beat and the kids would dance and and uh. And
Speaker 1: so DJ culture was a thing in the sixties where yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you put a record on, you hear it over a
Speaker 1: PA system. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we had they had two
Speaker 1: things that they had a live band and then the
Speaker 1: stage would revolve and there would be a disc jockey,
Speaker 1: and so they would do they would the band would
Speaker 1: take a break, and then this jockey would be out
Speaker 1: there and play the records. And we used to like
Speaker 1: the the records a lot more than the band, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because the band played the old stuff. Really there was
Speaker 1: sort of like a ballroom band, you know. The disc
Speaker 1: jockey used to play the motown and we used to
Speaker 1: love that. Loved it. Yeah wow, okay, yeah, And and
Speaker 1: so we were we were there. I used to go
Speaker 1: there on a Saturday morning and me and might mean,
Speaker 1: you know, a young boys with with the raging hormones
Speaker 1: who go up to these young girls and and they
Speaker 1: danced with us. You know, we might get a kiss
Speaker 1: on the cheek and that was it. It was finished.
Speaker 1: You know, that was a lot. But one day Manfred
Speaker 1: Man's band where they were playing that night at the
Speaker 1: in the in the in the in the ballroom, right,
Speaker 1: and they they set up early when we were all
Speaker 1: in there, and they played, I guess they did their
Speaker 1: sound check and they played for us little kids, and
Speaker 1: every and every every little, every little twelve year aldgoing
Speaker 1: there went completely crazy about this band, like like they
Speaker 1: were the Beatles, screaming. And so I said to my friends,
Speaker 1: we're doing that. We're doing it all wrong. We need
Speaker 1: we need to be that, we need to be Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we put we started playing. We got we just
Speaker 1: I got a toy. I had a toy drum kit,
Speaker 1: and I at those motor skills. I knew where to
Speaker 1: do it. And the only song there was a guy
Speaker 1: he had a real guitar, but he had an old
Speaker 1: record player that his dad changed into being an amplified Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he played and we played saw standing there at
Speaker 1: the tea chest with the string and that was a
Speaker 1: that's that was the base and that's and that's all
Speaker 1: we could play with. So standing there and we did that.
Speaker 1: Let me make sure I'm clear on this. You mean
Speaker 1: Manfred Man, the actual blinded by the White guys. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: see I know him from their seventy sets. I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that history. Yeah, yeah, yeah, then yeah yeah, And
Speaker 1: so we would we would, we would go and play
Speaker 1: in the afternoons at friend's house. He couldn't do it
Speaker 1: my my grandfather, would you know, he was he was
Speaker 1: a milk and then he would go out and start
Speaker 1: working at three o'clock in the morning, and he didn't
Speaker 1: want to. He hated music all kinds and the only
Speaker 1: thing he liked was classical music, and anything young was
Speaker 1: just he didn't like anything about young kids or noise.
Speaker 1: So we go up to another friend's house and we'd
Speaker 1: set up and we play with this little toy drum
Speaker 1: kid thing that I had. My grandmother brought me a
Speaker 1: snare drum for Christmas, a real one mm hmm. And
Speaker 1: and the guy with the guitar because he had a
Speaker 1: real instrument. His father, his father on the gas station. Okay.
Speaker 1: He used to go and hang out in the music stores,
Speaker 1: which is where all the older kids that had bands
Speaker 1: used to hang out. Okay, right, so yeah, there's the
Speaker 1: there's these big kids. What we call the big kids
Speaker 1: because here we are twelve year olds and there's he's
Speaker 1: like eighteen year old kids. The sixteen seventeen, eighteen year
Speaker 1: old kids had started playing bands, playing making bands and
Speaker 1: could play, but we had money add jobs because some
Speaker 1: of them would leave score fifteen and they would they
Speaker 1: would good bye, save up and buy an instrument and
Speaker 1: and make a band. So this kid was there trying
Speaker 1: to be in a little twelve year old I got
Speaker 1: a real guitar, trying to hang out with these older kids.
Speaker 1: And there was a bunch of guys and they had
Speaker 1: the way gigs used to be got. There would be
Speaker 1: a bulletin board, right, they put a bulletin board in
Speaker 1: the music shop. And if you if you wanted a geek,
Speaker 1: you go and look at the bulleting and see who
Speaker 1: was who was looking for a drummer, who was looking
Speaker 1: for a guitarist or of you know, and and and
Speaker 1: and they put up this thing, and they were talking
Speaker 1: to the proprietor of the store and they were saying
Speaker 1: to him and Drumma's got to go and get his
Speaker 1: appendix out, and we need we got a gig at
Speaker 1: a youth club on Saturday night, and we need to
Speaker 1: get if he any dramas coming in there. And my
Speaker 1: friend took his life into his hands, talking to like
Speaker 1: older kids like that, and said, I know a drama
Speaker 1: And they said, well who's that And they said, well,
Speaker 1: you know good things. You're a blues band, right the Flames?
Speaker 1: They called, yeah, where this guy? He's black? So that
Speaker 1: was that was the first. That was the first. They said,
Speaker 1: he's he's old? Is he's he's twelve years old? They said, well,
Speaker 1: is he any good? And you get young you can play?
Speaker 1: He said, okay, having come over and meet us at
Speaker 1: this this house and so this kid and with no telephone,
Speaker 1: he had to come over to my house. He said,
Speaker 1: he there's these big kids and they got a band
Speaker 1: and they're looking for a drummer. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: big kids, because big kids used to beat up kids
Speaker 1: like my ses, you know. And he said yeah. So
Speaker 1: so I went over there. I took took my life
Speaker 1: in my hands, and I walked in there and I
Speaker 1: sat down and I played a few songs of them
Speaker 1: and and and they said, okay, well you can come
Speaker 1: play the youth club with us. He passed the test,
Speaker 1: passed the test. Yeah, I knew. I knew songs. You know.
Speaker 1: It was for the tap dance and you feel you
Speaker 1: like you know, I knew introduction, verse, chorus, bridge, you know,
Speaker 1: and and and and how the dynamic the dynamic of
Speaker 1: his song. So I could kind of follow that. I
Speaker 1: didn't even have to know the song. I could follow it.
Speaker 1: There's one time I went to not in all white school,
Speaker 1: but um, there's one time I went to. I was
Speaker 1: playing a pick up a game of basketball. So naturally,
Speaker 1: you know, the white kids thought like, well, we'll take
Speaker 1: a mirror because he's black. And yeah, I was in
Speaker 1: a sports gamp. I found out they may be captured
Speaker 1: to the football team. Yeah, useless, I was useless. That
Speaker 1: means you're a real musician. I always say that real
Speaker 1: musicians don't know sports. I'm sorry man. Well, one, you're
Speaker 1: saying you were twelve, which basically means that this is
Speaker 1: sixty two. Yeah. You know, for the United States, the
Speaker 1: what we call the British invasion will happen in a
Speaker 1: year or a year and a half. What is the Well,
Speaker 1: you lived in the British invasion, so I guess it
Speaker 1: wasn't a big deal to you. So what is the
Speaker 1: effect of white based blues. These teams that are listening
Speaker 1: to these blues records and starting rock bands. Like how
Speaker 1: how influential was it? It was extremely you know, because
Speaker 1: this is what happened. You know, these older kids they
Speaker 1: knew somehow, I don't know how, but they knew about
Speaker 1: Muddy Waters Sanitary and Brownie McGhee Lighting Hopkins. Oh, they
Speaker 1: knew all about that stuff, and that those guys had
Speaker 1: a tour and they would come and play the doming Bright. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so Bill Dogge he was my least favorite, you know,
Speaker 1: Bill dog It was my least favorite. But now and
Speaker 1: listen to him, I gotta wonder why, right, But but
Speaker 1: when at that time, I love John Lee Hooker, John
Speaker 1: Lee Hooker, just and Sonny Terry Terry and Brownie McGee
Speaker 1: I love it and they and so these guys they
Speaker 1: come around every year, and the band that I would
Speaker 1: disbanded I was playing with, they take me, these eighteen
Speaker 1: year old kids would take me to see it. I
Speaker 1: mean I would have paid more attention and I had.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was watching, but I got
Speaker 1: to see those guys. It was incredible, and that was
Speaker 1: that was the start of it for me. I'm currently, uh,
Speaker 1: trying to shop there's someone that's written a series based
Speaker 1: on a lot of those Chicago Blues legends. Um coming
Speaker 1: over to Germany, coming over to the UK, finding a
Speaker 1: new audience over there. We're trying to shop that they
Speaker 1: knew who they were. I mean, we didn't have computers
Speaker 1: and stuff to look these but we we we we
Speaker 1: Who the hell is that? Right? Well, it's good because
Speaker 1: you know, they couldn't get arrested in the United States,
Speaker 1: you know, well, yeah, I mean if they could get
Speaker 1: arrested in the United States. I remember seeing that that
Speaker 1: that movie about Standing in the Shadows of Motown where
Speaker 1: they were absolutely shocked when they arrived in England that
Speaker 1: people would say, come and say, who's James Jamison? Which
Speaker 1: one used James Jamison? They were like, hell, how do
Speaker 1: you know about James Jamison? Which one of us? Which
Speaker 1: one used? Benny Benjamin? We knew that all those people
Speaker 1: were were you were you developing any heroes? Like who
Speaker 1: would you say, is the first drumming hero that you
Speaker 1: had in terms of burnout? Okay, yeah, I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I know, I knew you guys covered what is soul
Speaker 1: on the seventy seven Benny and Us record. But was
Speaker 1: that your idea to cover that song? Yes, because that
Speaker 1: was the first time that I ever heard jumps plaid
Speaker 1: with syncopation like that. I was we were I was working,
Speaker 1: I said, when I was about fourteen years old. I
Speaker 1: started didn't go like in some off. I left school
Speaker 1: of fifteen, but but uh as we started to go
Speaker 1: over and work American bases in France, and I remember
Speaker 1: it was like it was yesterday. I was in the
Speaker 1: in the There was a place called the Casern and
Speaker 1: it was in Talk in the middle of France, and
Speaker 1: we were there playing at the Enlisted Man's Club, and
Speaker 1: and we could eat on the base. So we go
Speaker 1: to the we'd stay off the base, but we could
Speaker 1: go to the base and eat on the base and
Speaker 1: go to the camp. And there was a we we
Speaker 1: sort of went and sat down near the jukebox so
Speaker 1: we could hear the music that was on there. Couldn't
Speaker 1: afford to buy anything. And then and this, uh, this
Speaker 1: black g I in his fatigues, the green fatigues that
Speaker 1: they used to wear. He sort of saunted over there,
Speaker 1: sort of skinny that I remember seeing him do it.
Speaker 1: And he popped in whatever it was called a dime
Speaker 1: whatever they put in there, and he hit some numbers
Speaker 1: and walked away, and I heard chatted out him to
Speaker 1: do what what? What was I heard? So? I heard?
Speaker 1: I heard Charlie Watts. I never heard drums played like that?
Speaker 1: Where did that come from? So I went over and
Speaker 1: I atle what what what records? Like? Oh? Thenn e king?
Speaker 1: What is so? So how do you know who's playing drums?
Speaker 1: Because I don't know if album credits are even a thing.
Speaker 1: Like when I was you know, Purdy did a session
Speaker 1: for my dad in like seventy four, so that's how
Speaker 1: I got to meet him. But how do you know
Speaker 1: who is what? And well, I don't know. I found
Speaker 1: out that it was Purdy, but maybe it got the
Speaker 1: album or something or asked around and somebody somebody else knew.
Speaker 1: I don't nobody couldn't look it up on a computer.
Speaker 1: I don't remember having an album with that with any
Speaker 1: information on it. But but somebody told me, oh, that's
Speaker 1: burnout Purdy. Okay, well you mentioned sort of dropping out
Speaker 1: at Fifth Team. When you do that in your mind,
Speaker 1: is it like okay, do or die? I have to
Speaker 1: be a musician and how does your family feel about
Speaker 1: this decision? It was it was revenge, you know, his
Speaker 1: class system in England. Yeah, I wasn't supposed to be
Speaker 1: anything more than maybe a bus driver or plumber. I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna. I wasn't gonna stay an extra year
Speaker 1: at school and become a banker or like a working
Speaker 1: a bank clerk or civil servant or something like that.
Speaker 1: I was. It kind of started. I mean I sort
Speaker 1: of stayed in. We had forms, ABC D forms. I
Speaker 1: was in the A form. I was kind of in.
Speaker 1: I could horver in the middle of the A form.
Speaker 1: I wasn't done, Okay. I decided that I wanted to
Speaker 1: play drums, and especially you know since now Ringo Star
Speaker 1: have become a huge star, right Charlie, What these were
Speaker 1: like normal guys? They want upper cross, upper cart, upper class,
Speaker 1: upper crush or anything. He's like they were like us, Okay,
Speaker 1: Keith Moon, I used to, you know, play my band
Speaker 1: used to open for the Hoop and they played him
Speaker 1: with him Brighton in the Little Conny Little Club. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Was he destroying his kick back then or we were
Speaker 1: not in the beginning, but then he started to once
Speaker 1: he started once they started to give him equipment, and
Speaker 1: there was the whole story behind never but I used
Speaker 1: to go, I take pieces of it for spares for
Speaker 1: my guy had an Olympic drum kit, a little Olympic
Speaker 1: which is a start, wasn't It wasn't a gigster. Gigster
Speaker 1: was was the was it was? It was the really cheap,
Speaker 1: horrible thing, right, And then he had Olympic, which was intermediate,
Speaker 1: and then premiere. Right, but I had this Olympic thing,
Speaker 1: and and the Premiere stuff would like different lugs and
Speaker 1: stuff would fit on there. You know. So if I
Speaker 1: had stuff that broke, I could take that. And Keith
Speaker 1: Moon would take a sledgehammer to his drum kit and
Speaker 1: just smash it into matchwood. No, and let's say to
Speaker 1: the road he can I have take it? Really, Pete
Speaker 1: Townshend destroyed the guitar on the Tonight Show and they
Speaker 1: let me have it. So it was like it was
Speaker 1: like a ukulele. But still you know, it's like a guitar.
Speaker 1: But like I'm saying that this was Piers that were
Speaker 1: that we're doing it. So when they started to ask
Speaker 1: me when I was like fourteen years you know, what,
Speaker 1: what do you want to do when you leave school.
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, I want to be a drummer.
Speaker 1: I want to I want to play drums. And they
Speaker 1: said you can't do that. I said why not and
Speaker 1: they said, well, because he's not a real job. So
Speaker 1: I said, well, Ringo star does it? No, Charlie Wats
Speaker 1: does it? Yeah, but you're not, you know, ringo star.
Speaker 1: And then they started to call me ringo and I
Speaker 1: used to. I used to. I used to play football.
Speaker 1: I was like, I said, they may be captain, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't any good at the captain used. I used
Speaker 1: to box at school. I was pretty good boxing. Okay,
Speaker 1: wait you were, but there was boxing riculum and yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah yeah until one kid got killed and then
Speaker 1: they stopped it. There was a couple of but but
Speaker 1: but they they we had boxing at school and I
Speaker 1: was always alway at that and I used to do
Speaker 1: that for the school. And I used to run track
Speaker 1: at school. But but when they started to mock me
Speaker 1: about what I wanted to do about music, then I
Speaker 1: went on strike and I said, right, that's it. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna play music. I'm not gonna do this anymore. And
Speaker 1: I rebelled, complete rebellion. I'd go into go into exams
Speaker 1: and I'd sit there and they'd say, you've got five
Speaker 1: minutes to just read the stuff through. I'd sit there
Speaker 1: and then they ring the bell and say okay, start
Speaker 1: start working and put up my hand and say can't
Speaker 1: do it? Wow, And I said, I can't do it.
Speaker 1: It's too difficult, you can't do it. We'll try. I
Speaker 1: don't want to, and they wouldn't want to argue with me,
Speaker 1: so I just say, okay, get out and I'd leave.
Speaker 1: I go play drums. What was what was considered making
Speaker 1: a good living as a musician, at least at that
Speaker 1: point in your life, with nine pounds a week with
Speaker 1: a bit of fortune. You know, when I when I
Speaker 1: left and Let's school and got a job, I was
Speaker 1: learning like four pounds a week. Four pounds went a
Speaker 1: lot further than it does now. But but oh because
Speaker 1: place it, Yes, but it was still very little, very
Speaker 1: little money. Give it, give it about one pound fifty
Speaker 1: to my mom for rent, and really, yeah, okay, that
Speaker 1: was That's how I was brought up. Eventually, I know
Speaker 1: in your mind, is it is the goal to make
Speaker 1: it in America? Is the goal to get on the radio.
Speaker 1: Is the goal to play a large theater, like what's
Speaker 1: the first step? And you making it? Never really had
Speaker 1: any particular ambition at all and any anything excepts to
Speaker 1: play to play mu they can make a living at it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I mean I did the starving
Speaker 1: musician bit in London, you know, and with a couple
Speaker 1: of guys. We lived in a one bedroom, one bedroom
Speaker 1: apart with an apartment room right and with starving musicians.
Speaker 1: And there's some people who live it was a charity
Speaker 1: of people don't hang out and get picked up for
Speaker 1: the old gig here and there. Okay, the object, I
Speaker 1: think the object really was just just to get to
Speaker 1: a place where you could afford to pay your rent
Speaker 1: and get a place to live. And no, not even you.
Speaker 1: I didn't have any any ambition as well as like
Speaker 1: private jets or right here now yeah yeah what what
Speaker 1: what is rent a month in Okay, let's say like
Speaker 1: you're now eighteen in what is rent a month in
Speaker 1: the UK? Oh? Maybe two three pounds a week? Maybe? Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah you make that one. Um. So when the sort
Speaker 1: of psychedelic movement eases in or at least like by
Speaker 1: post nineteen sixty six, like when the Beatles start experimenting,
Speaker 1: when Hendricks is starting to come over to make a mark.
Speaker 1: Is this affecting you at all in your musicianship? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean it was wonder It was
Speaker 1: one of the sixties. Was a wonderful time, you know,
Speaker 1: as far as like music fashion. Yeah. So were you
Speaker 1: a hippie? No? I was? I was. I was, well,
Speaker 1: I you know, I started off when when, like I said,
Speaker 1: the boring MUDs, MUDs and rockers, I thought, well, you know,
Speaker 1: this all started like an Easter Sunday down at the beach,
Speaker 1: and I thought, well, it was gonna wine the rockers
Speaker 1: they get, you know. So so I sort of put
Speaker 1: on some rocket garb whatever as close as I can
Speaker 1: to rocket guard, and I went down to the beach
Speaker 1: and there were thousands and thousands of moths. So I
Speaker 1: went back home and I put on some Levi's and
Speaker 1: a white T shirt Chases and then went down there
Speaker 1: and became a modern rioty with everybody through it. So
Speaker 1: I w in stones and running up down the beach
Speaker 1: and beating up people and we could find him. Oh god. Um,
Speaker 1: So you know, from what I know it is was
Speaker 1: the American group Bloodstone. Your first experience in the United
Speaker 1: States or was that? Was there a group before in
Speaker 1: the United States? I mean, I've done the freddie King album.
Speaker 1: I've worked on the freddie King album. But okay, what
Speaker 1: was that like playing with him? Oh? It's incredible. He
Speaker 1: was incredible. And the producer was a guy named Mike Vernon,
Speaker 1: which guy named Mike Vernon and Mike had come down
Speaker 1: to see this I started. I come back to England
Speaker 1: from being living in Europe and went to music school.
Speaker 1: What school, uh is the Niece Conservatory of Music? Are
Speaker 1: you niece? Yeah? It was a guy named Jack Ry
Speaker 1: who was the percussion percussion teacher and he I was
Speaker 1: too old actually to get into the school as a student,
Speaker 1: so he got me in as a teacher because I
Speaker 1: could play, so he had me teach the kids. And
Speaker 1: because I was teaching the kids how to play modern
Speaker 1: drums because all they taught was classical music. Did that
Speaker 1: was about it? So you can read music? By the
Speaker 1: time I left, I could, yeah, minimally, not not like
Speaker 1: the guys. I mean there was guys that have been
Speaker 1: since they were tiny, had had learned to play their
Speaker 1: instruments to really music and that. But these guys they
Speaker 1: couldn't play modern drums. I could, so I had had
Speaker 1: to teach them. So when I'm teaching them, I'm writing
Speaker 1: them out exercises and they're like, oh no, no, no,
Speaker 1: Mr FRONI, this is this is how you write that out.
Speaker 1: And so I was learning. I was teaching as I
Speaker 1: was teaching. Okay, I did three years of that and
Speaker 1: it was wonderful, It was really wonderful. But but when
Speaker 1: I came when I came back, I started to play
Speaker 1: with this band, Gonzalez. They were a bunch of studio
Speaker 1: musicians that would that would play in the clubs at night.
Speaker 1: And the way you got into that band was you
Speaker 1: wait for whoever was playing your instrument to go out
Speaker 1: of town or have a gig that he couldn't a
Speaker 1: session that he couldn't make the gig, and then you
Speaker 1: would come in there and then you would play. You
Speaker 1: would play that gig until you couldn't make it anymore.
Speaker 1: Then you leave. And then guys like Richard Bailey. So
Speaker 1: I'd switched up with like Richard Bailey and that was
Speaker 1: that was how that band. And we opened for Average
Speaker 1: White Band once. Really yeah, okay, yeah, I was gonna
Speaker 1: say at this point were you running into Alan or
Speaker 1: or the Glasgow guys. I was really good friends with
Speaker 1: Robbie McIntosh. We when when I was when I went
Speaker 1: to Italy, when I was like seventeen years old, I
Speaker 1: went to Italy and I met Robbie down there and
Speaker 1: Alex Idard. Would you know if you know what Alex's
Speaker 1: he sang with Santana, He's sang that song I'm winning
Speaker 1: with Santana. Really, And Alex and Robbie used to play
Speaker 1: in a band called the Senate okay, and they were
Speaker 1: there in in in Italy, and I was there. I
Speaker 1: was there working with an American guy named Ronnie Jones.
Speaker 1: He's still alive, God blessings eighty three years old, eighty
Speaker 1: three years old now and he lives he lives in Milan.
Speaker 1: Did McIntosh have what you would say a pocket then
Speaker 1: or was he just oh yeah? Really he came up
Speaker 1: with listening to the same stuff as I did. You know,
Speaker 1: It's funny what you know, We we all came up
Speaker 1: listening to the same music, even Tom Petty. And when
Speaker 1: after spending some time with the Heartbreakers, we start talking
Speaker 1: about oh you know this song or that sort of
Speaker 1: and I came to find out that Tom and Mike
Speaker 1: were listening to the same stuff as I was listening
Speaker 1: to as the English Invasion. We were all listening to
Speaker 1: the same music, the same thing. Yeah, and so there
Speaker 1: was a connection made through the through the music, you know.
Speaker 1: And there was a connection made with with with the
Speaker 1: guys who average white man because they were up in
Speaker 1: Scotland and I was down at that There were way
Speaker 1: up there in Scotland. I've been Dundee and run. I'm
Speaker 1: down here in the south of England and we're all
Speaker 1: listening to Motown and listening to the stacks. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: so when we sat down and started to play that music,
Speaker 1: we had a way of playing it that was it
Speaker 1: would give a note to it, but we didn't copy.
Speaker 1: We didn't. It wasn't a it wasn't derivative. No, No,
Speaker 1: you could tell what it was, you know, because you
Speaker 1: were sort of the drummer whose DNA I studied the most. Um.
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know this v the sort of
Speaker 1: trick or at least your signature feel, which I kind
Speaker 1: of believe maybe Party did it first, the infamous Yeah
Speaker 1: that is okay. I was gonna say, you you heard
Speaker 1: pretty do that and then that just instantly became part
Speaker 1: of your DNA. Absolutely yeah, and then and then and
Speaker 1: then the other high hat stuff that the mode. I
Speaker 1: got that from Stevie Wonder. It's so funny. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: glad I'm talking to you. Um well, and keep up.
Speaker 1: I might be I was gonna say, quote unquote, I
Speaker 1: might be quote unquote working on a Stevie Wonder project
Speaker 1: as well. And you know, Stevie to me, I don't
Speaker 1: know any besides James Gatson and maybe Bonzo. I don't
Speaker 1: know another drummer who I define more with the symbol work,
Speaker 1: you know, like all music of my mind. Just the
Speaker 1: sloppiness of like love having you around and just I
Speaker 1: miss that when he started programming drums. Unmiss that so much,
Speaker 1: like I love when he stopped me and just all
Speaker 1: over the crest. I think it's also the fact that
Speaker 1: he would sort of motown style overdubbed those. Tom Thomson
Speaker 1: over dubbed those. I hat feels that it sounds super
Speaker 1: intense because you know, it just sounds like he's playing
Speaker 1: it within an inch of his life. Oh, it's wonderful.
Speaker 1: This is that's wonderful stuff. What was the first American
Speaker 1: city that you arrived in in New York, And what
Speaker 1: was your first impression of American? Wow? I remember I
Speaker 1: remember landing. I remember landing at the airport and I
Speaker 1: had my drums, my drum kit on a on a
Speaker 1: on a cor right, and I don't think I don't
Speaker 1: think I had a work from it. What and and
Speaker 1: and I came through and this this guy, this customs guy,
Speaker 1: looked and he said, what are you doing? I said, no,
Speaker 1: we just hear like a vacation. And he did, okay,
Speaker 1: he said, your first time here visiting? I don't know
Speaker 1: always because I had an English because back then he
Speaker 1: was kind of unique for a black guy to speak
Speaker 1: with an R saccent, you know. And he said and
Speaker 1: he and he said and he said to me said
Speaker 1: does He said, have you got any drugs? And I
Speaker 1: said no, I'm'm good. I'm going any drugs this time?
Speaker 1: He said, there's plenty through that door. Welcome to New York.
Speaker 1: Really And that was that. And that was that Sixth Avenue.
Speaker 1: We wrote We're riding up six Avenue and I remember, wow,
Speaker 1: just looking out in amazing. Yeah, when was when is
Speaker 1: the era of back line? Like were you expected to
Speaker 1: provide your own gear, your own drums. Are you setting
Speaker 1: up your own gear? Was there a ROADI back in
Speaker 1: the day, or were you setting up your own stuff? Well,
Speaker 1: there were a couple of roads, but they would they
Speaker 1: would help, but you know, we all have to really
Speaker 1: sort of take your own stuff. Okay, I've heard many
Speaker 1: accounts of how Robbie passed away and how you got
Speaker 1: into the group, but I've never heard an official version
Speaker 1: from an official band member. How did Robbie pass away?
Speaker 1: And how did you get the gig? For the average
Speaker 1: white man? Well, you know what were you know, we're friends.
Speaker 1: I was supposed to go to that party. I was
Speaker 1: supposed to meet him with that party. But I was,
Speaker 1: I was, I was. I was doing the film, doing
Speaker 1: the film with You're in that movie. No, It's like,
Speaker 1: well I might be in them, but I did to
Speaker 1: move music for it. So did it ever come out? Yes, Yes,
Speaker 1: I think I have it. I think I have found it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Okay, yeah there Trainwood. Yes. When they
Speaker 1: when they were promoting that album on Soul Train, uh,
Speaker 1: Don Cornelius showed like a minute of the clip where
Speaker 1: they're riding in a train and they're in the bunkers
Speaker 1: and doing show tunes and whatnot. And so is it funny?
Speaker 1: I mean I had to go there and be on
Speaker 1: set with them, and then and then we go we
Speaker 1: do it cool music and so you're all over that record. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: that's not you natural money money is but no, it's
Speaker 1: not been a matterer, but but money and money badass.
Speaker 1: Some of the actually said it to me. That's why
Speaker 1: I started looking for it. I forgot all about it. Wow,
Speaker 1: we did that. All the best things in life for you,
Speaker 1: I get it. So so I was doing I was
Speaker 1: doing that, and and they were playing that. They were
Speaker 1: doing a run at the trouper door and Robbie calling
Speaker 1: me up and he said, come on, man, come and
Speaker 1: gont be a party on. You know, it was Sunday
Speaker 1: night or something. I said, I gotta work. If I can,
Speaker 1: I'll be there. And and and as uh fate would
Speaker 1: have it, I didn't. I didn't go. And and and
Speaker 1: the next morning I woke up and my my my
Speaker 1: drum tape. Then guy that was working for me g
Speaker 1: named Terry Merchant. Mhm, he said, Steve. Robbie staid no,
Speaker 1: and I said, what did your Because Robbie Robbie and
Speaker 1: I used to go out drinking together. Robbie was the
Speaker 1: hell of a drinker. And he said, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: he's dead. You know, he don't over those. Robbie wasn't
Speaker 1: so much of a drug taker. I could say there
Speaker 1: wasn't so much of a drug. He was more of
Speaker 1: a drinker, right, But Robbie, this is this was the
Speaker 1: thing was Robbie. Robbie could drink. I'd seen Robbie drink
Speaker 1: bottle of vodka and then he just switched the scotch right,
Speaker 1: and I get sick. But I never saw Robbie throw up,
Speaker 1: never saw him he would pass out right, you know.
Speaker 1: And and from from my understanding, because I wasn't there
Speaker 1: for a lot of what when when the whole just
Speaker 1: there for the aftermath was that he was at this
Speaker 1: party and everybody did did this. Some some guy was saying,
Speaker 1: he's he's some cocaine, right, And so Robbie wouldn't do
Speaker 1: anything small. He was not that sort of a person either.
Speaker 1: He went bigger. Yeah, when he he went, and he
Speaker 1: went he went bigger, and and everybody everybody else that
Speaker 1: did it got sick. And Robbie went home, went to
Speaker 1: sleep and it stayed in his system. It was it
Speaker 1: was heroin and it was cut with strychnine and it
Speaker 1: killed him. Jesus Christ, is that simple, you know? You know,
Speaker 1: I mean we we talked a lot about, you know,
Speaker 1: accidental drive overdoses, you know, sometimes the house I'm staying
Speaker 1: at the moment. Those there was three guys that died
Speaker 1: of fentinel overdoses and one of those, one of those
Speaker 1: guys was his was his nephew, right, and uh, and accidental.
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody goes does any of that stuff
Speaker 1: to die, you know. I mean, if they want to
Speaker 1: do that, they say, I'm I write a suicide note
Speaker 1: this you did this to me, and then they just
Speaker 1: do an enormous and they're dying. And I think there
Speaker 1: was recreation. I don't think that this guy even had
Speaker 1: a problem. And I think it was just three buddies
Speaker 1: that decided to go and mess around. Get let's let's
Speaker 1: try that stuff and see what it does. And unfortunately, yeah, killer.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like that in the sixties, I will tell
Speaker 1: you that right now. But I don't think anything any
Speaker 1: of the drugs nowadays, so that they were in the
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies and it's a it's a different animal. So,
Speaker 1: you know, Robbie, it was a tragic a tragic accident.
Speaker 1: It did. It was a lot of pains, but it's
Speaker 1: probably still being felt felt today. You know. I hadn't
Speaker 1: spoken to his widowing over twenty years, and she called
Speaker 1: me last week. Yeah, he did, and and and and
Speaker 1: she she was telling me that she she just just
Speaker 1: now has come to terms with the fact to be
Speaker 1: able to just say, you know, it's what. It was
Speaker 1: not much point running around feeling resentment and years of
Speaker 1: running around feeling resentment and just make yourself that broke
Speaker 1: her heart for all those years, four and five years
Speaker 1: and just she remarried. But yeah, still painful. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: Robbie was a great guy, a great drama and a
Speaker 1: great guy. How how long does time go by before
Speaker 1: you're getting the phone call to join the average white band?
Speaker 1: And before they call you, are they trying to at
Speaker 1: least maintain the status of the name of the group
Speaker 1: and find a white guy that's funky? No, Well, I'd
Speaker 1: tell you what happened was was this was that was
Speaker 1: that when when I found out about Robbie being being dead,
Speaker 1: I went and I called, I got hold of Hamish
Speaker 1: and I went over to the hotel and sat over
Speaker 1: the hotel with everybody and we were all drinking because
Speaker 1: that's what we did the Scots, and and and I
Speaker 1: said to them, listen, you know, Robbie wouldn't want you
Speaker 1: guys to stop now. You know you just gotting to
Speaker 1: get this airplay with pick up the pieces it's happening
Speaker 1: for I don't know how this is all going enough,
Speaker 1: but you guys s you know you shouldn't shouldn't stop.
Speaker 1: There was talk of maybe we should stop the group.
Speaker 1: Well it was it was everybody was sitting around sort
Speaker 1: of like it was all over. It's like it's not over,
Speaker 1: it's you know. And so I said, if there's anything
Speaker 1: I can do, let me know, and and and and
Speaker 1: I was under contract to Bloodstone, right, so what what
Speaker 1: I would do is Stick super and myself. What would
Speaker 1: happen if I couldn't do it? If I was working
Speaker 1: with Buds Stun, Sticks would go and play with them. No,
Speaker 1: and then Sticks briefly joined the average white Man. They
Speaker 1: played no average white Man. So he'd go and play
Speaker 1: the geek and then and then if he could, if
Speaker 1: he could do it, I do it, and then and
Speaker 1: and you know, I go and play with him. They
Speaker 1: were auditioning people s I R. There's drummers, oh, black, white,
Speaker 1: And it didn't really matter. They were just looking for
Speaker 1: a drama, yeah okay with sticks and sticks and I
Speaker 1: would go would go to the auditions and we'd sit
Speaker 1: there in the sare and then drummer will come in.
Speaker 1: They start playing with them, and they say, okay, now
Speaker 1: they ain't working, and they would get more and more depressed,
Speaker 1: you know, and so either sticks or myself will go
Speaker 1: up and we jam with them and they come back
Speaker 1: to life again. And then they wheel in another drummer,
Speaker 1: and then we'd sit there and watch them, and they
Speaker 1: would go there any any drummer of note that tried
Speaker 1: the audition for the band that didn't make nobody, nobody
Speaker 1: that I knew. But there was a lot of kids
Speaker 1: wanting to play there were you know. It was it
Speaker 1: was a big audition to go to and so and
Speaker 1: so I had to play this gig with them down
Speaker 1: at Long Beach, at Long Beach Arena, at the old
Speaker 1: Long Beach Arena. And we're down there, we sit there
Speaker 1: and get come out. We start to play I remember
Speaker 1: this gig there was They're also like kind of states
Speaker 1: static audience. They weren't really doing too much. And then
Speaker 1: there was this one. I saw this one guy sort
Speaker 1: of started to rock, you know, so I sort of
Speaker 1: hold hold him only on him and he kind of
Speaker 1: spread out from him. And by the end of the show,
Speaker 1: everybody was like dancing and going crazy and and it was.
Speaker 1: It was a great show. And I came off the
Speaker 1: stage and this little fellow came walking up to me dapper,
Speaker 1: you know, he was really well dressed. And I said,
Speaker 1: you know, a little beard. He walked up to me
Speaker 1: and he said, You've got to be in the band.
Speaker 1: And I said, I'd love to be in the band,
Speaker 1: but I'm under contract to another band. I can't I
Speaker 1: can't do it. And he said, you're out of that band,
Speaker 1: and you're in the band, right and then he walked
Speaker 1: and he walked off, and Bruce McCaskill was the manager
Speaker 1: at the time of the manner. I said, Bruce, who
Speaker 1: the hell is that? And he said, oh, that's how
Speaker 1: my dirt. I was out of that contract and I
Speaker 1: was in average White Man just like that. All right,
Speaker 1: ladies and Joel Man, I know you dread when you
Speaker 1: hear this, But you gotta come back next week for
Speaker 1: the next QULS episode of our special one on one
Speaker 1: quest Love Supreme. My idol Steve Varne. He's going to
Speaker 1: talk about his time with the Average White Band, Duran Duran,
Speaker 1: Tom Petty, playing with Prince, all this other stuff. Man,
Speaker 1: I hope you come back and enjoy. This episode is
Speaker 1: one of the probably the most special episodes I've ever done,
Speaker 1: where talk to the person that showed me the joys
Speaker 1: of music and drumming, especially all right to see all then,
Speaker 1: Thank you Wess. Love Supreme is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Well more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.