Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Up Ladies and Gentlemen. Another episode of Quest Love Supreme
Speaker 1: is upon us very happy day to day here with
Speaker 1: my family, my team supremus. How you guys doing? What up?
Speaker 1: What up? The way that we are progressing? Uh in
Speaker 1: the world. It's only a matter of time before we
Speaker 1: can act take our theme song back something I I
Speaker 1: think to the tonight would have been a good night
Speaker 1: for tales from the lad quarter. And uh think tonight
Speaker 1: see our our guest, you'll she just had some some
Speaker 1: we we just might have to encircles things. I'm here
Speaker 1: with Team Supreme. Uh, here with almighty unpaid Bill making
Speaker 1: me oh hey when I'm wait, I'm paid Bill? Are
Speaker 1: you part of in conto at all? Like? Is that
Speaker 1: any of your music? No? No, I'm friends, that's not
Speaker 1: hitting Bruno. No, I wish I was, honestly, my my, my,
Speaker 1: my bank wishes that I was know something about Bruno.
Speaker 1: But I don't talk about him or anyone I have. No.
Speaker 1: I have nothing to do with Bruno. I wish I did, though,
Speaker 1: man like ten weeks at number one or some shi
Speaker 1: it like, I wish it's still number one, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you know Lin Manuell is gonna mess around and
Speaker 1: and might beat boys. Demn m marai carry. Is that
Speaker 1: still the longest number one? Number one? Okay? I mean
Speaker 1: I'm from the old school sound scan so you know,
Speaker 1: or whatever method they use now to Yeah, this new
Speaker 1: math don't count like we come from an Arab motherfucker's
Speaker 1: at the lead a house to buy it exactly exactly,
Speaker 1: That's an exact that was the way we did. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry because is you know she's uh, she's and
Speaker 1: how are you doing? Like I'm doing amazing for this,
Speaker 1: uh man, this whole gas situation. But I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1: What's what's gas looking like in in l A right now? Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny you asked that my rich friend. Uh currently
Speaker 1: gas in Los Angeles is six dollars. We are at
Speaker 1: about five nineties something. Yeah, weird, like it was like
Speaker 1: four dollars out here, y'all got I am legend gas
Speaker 1: prices out there. Wait a minute, this is something fante.
Speaker 1: Do you drive? Oh? Yeah, this is the question we
Speaker 1: never I spent five years, but I just don't I
Speaker 1: can't see kind of like, what what kind of car
Speaker 1: do you have? Um? I had a Lexus um r
Speaker 1: X three fifty. Um, that sounds swanky, Okay, it's yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, it's paid for. I ain't buying another car,
Speaker 1: So you can write it out all right. I want
Speaker 1: I want FaceTime Fante while he was in his car
Speaker 1: outside of the chicken shop. I believe it is what happened?
Speaker 1: Do you have like a cigarette hanging out of his
Speaker 1: mouth with just one hand on the wheel. No, I
Speaker 1: just have to do it like Dame Dash and painting
Speaker 1: for Yeah, I have my black father. You know, just
Speaker 1: get something, You get home, and you pull up in
Speaker 1: the driveway and you just sit there for about an
Speaker 1: indeterminate amount of time. Am I the only I don't know?
Speaker 1: This's a t of my moment? Am I the only
Speaker 1: one that sometimes this has to sit in the car
Speaker 1: for ten minutes just so you could brace itself for
Speaker 1: whatever is waiting for you. You're not alone. So that's
Speaker 1: universal talk. Oh yeah, straight up, Okay, I'm still happy
Speaker 1: with my relationship. Yea, I was just asking for a friend, Steve.
Speaker 1: How are you doing? I'm good a man? Any anything
Speaker 1: interesting happened in the network or you know, oh gosh,
Speaker 1: I mean you know, Um, I didn't anticipate you ask
Speaker 1: me that question. So okay, well let me just start again.
Speaker 1: How are you doing, Steve? I didn't anticipate you ask
Speaker 1: me that either, so I don't know what ladies and
Speaker 1: gentlemen all right, So and uh I'm I'm I'm winging this.
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to keep it real sistinct because I
Speaker 1: realized that our guests hasn't spoken a word yet because
Speaker 1: I didn't address her or all right, I know, I know.
Speaker 1: So look when when cats, when when dudes my age
Speaker 1: um start reminiscing about you know, quote unquote the good
Speaker 1: old days or real hip hop or true school or
Speaker 1: whatever we say, um, our guest name should ring familiar.
Speaker 1: I think that the thing about well, the thing is
Speaker 1: is that even though I've never read an interview or
Speaker 1: seeing a television interview, heard it a radio interview on
Speaker 1: the radio, or even exchange any sort of casual banter
Speaker 1: with our guests or even d M crept my way
Speaker 1: into a friendship or relationship. Um, which is I know
Speaker 1: that made I made that sound weird, but you know,
Speaker 1: d M creeping you're way into free friendships is kind
Speaker 1: of real. Like I can actually say that I'm genuine
Speaker 1: friends with like Henry Winkler and Morgan Fairchild just from
Speaker 1: dem Creeping, which kind of weird. I'm also friends with
Speaker 1: Tasty Cake Steve wait wait wait wait, like friends with
Speaker 1: with with non human entities on Twitter. But Morgan Fairchild, dude,
Speaker 1: it's so random. She started like it, like she started
Speaker 1: liking a whole bunch of my tweets and then we're
Speaker 1: we're actually BFFs, like like, hey, when you're in town,
Speaker 1: let's go to dinner. I mean, I haven't done it yet,
Speaker 1: but I think I'm down with Morgan Fairchild. You Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I know, like the eight year old news
Speaker 1: kind of like happy right now? Right, I'm thrilled. I know,
Speaker 1: I know, manor because like, how is this gonna relate
Speaker 1: to me? All right? My whole point is that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't exactly have a relationship with our
Speaker 1: guest on the show, having grown up in the age
Speaker 1: of hip hop, where you know, transition from twelve inch
Speaker 1: uh and singles to LPs and I'm part of the
Speaker 1: generation that lived for liner notes and seeing who did what? Um,
Speaker 1: Our next guest name should ring familiar to hip hop
Speaker 1: heads because she was literally president of one of the
Speaker 1: most powerful labels of the genre. And I don't even
Speaker 1: want to limit it to hip hop because you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, Tommy Boy had hits from club hits to
Speaker 1: pop music to freestyle too. I could name him a
Speaker 1: delas Soul Coolio Digital Underground Force and DS House of
Speaker 1: Paying Club, Nouveaux K seven LFO Information Society, and already
Speaker 1: by nature the Rizza back when he was Prince rockin
Speaker 1: uh Rue, Paul Queen Latifa, the original hip hop bands.
Speaker 1: That's a sonic. Um, y'all, y'all really have to understand that,
Speaker 1: uh the muscle that this label operated with probably the
Speaker 1: the only other rival label that can even say that
Speaker 1: they held that same space was probably def Jam. So,
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, the very legendary president or former president,
Speaker 1: Tommy Boy, the one and only Monica Lynch, thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing great, And I really appreciated the conversation about
Speaker 1: gas prices because now that I'm sixty five, gas price
Speaker 1: means a whole different thing. Um, I've never driven, I
Speaker 1: don't drive. I just gotta match yer, say, what's the
Speaker 1: gas situation. I'm like, let me look at my medicine
Speaker 1: cabinet gas. Wait, you're you're telling me you never had
Speaker 1: your license or you never owned a car. I off
Speaker 1: my license, but I only use it for I D
Speaker 1: And the only car I ever drove was a gold
Speaker 1: Cadillac with power windows at my father owned back in
Speaker 1: like the early seventies. So the die was cast at
Speaker 1: a young age. So this is definitely going to lead
Speaker 1: to my first question, warp part. Well, I don't know,
Speaker 1: were you a natural born New Yorker or Chicago from Yeah, Chicago.
Speaker 1: I'm sixty five, I'm from Chicago. I grew up there. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up there and I was, you know,
Speaker 1: really weaned on Top forty radio when it was still
Speaker 1: a hugely amazing thing in the late sixties. Heard all
Speaker 1: the great great pop songs from that era, and back then,
Speaker 1: you know, blues was definitely still a big thing in Chicago,
Speaker 1: but it was mostly I would say a lot of
Speaker 1: white guys. They were checking the blues back in that scene.
Speaker 1: You know, Paul Butterfiel Blues Band, the Electric Blues, Yeah right,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly. And then I started got into the disco scene.
Speaker 1: It was a big disco dancer, hustle contests. Was a
Speaker 1: dancer at the big gay bar in Chicago, which was
Speaker 1: sort of like a it was the Studio fifty four
Speaker 1: of Chicago. Then I was in a punk band and
Speaker 1: we worked at a punk club and did all sorts
Speaker 1: of things before I came to New York in night, so, um,
Speaker 1: you got history. What was your first musical memory? My
Speaker 1: first musical memory was listening to my parents records, uh
Speaker 1: in the basement. Um. And they of course had the
Speaker 1: sort of records that you would find in the sixties
Speaker 1: and a lot of collections. It was everything from Nicholson
Speaker 1: May to My Fair Lady Soundtrack to uh, you know,
Speaker 1: her Balbert and the Tijuana Brass, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: I had a big crush on her Balbert back then.
Speaker 1: And I got my first record player the same year
Speaker 1: that Rubber Soult came out. That was the first record
Speaker 1: I ever owned, was Rubber Soul. That would be no,
Speaker 1: I think it was a little earlier. I think, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe sixty four sixty five was Rubber sol I think, yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: that's cool. So would you like, did you have any
Speaker 1: ambitions or goals to be in the music industry or
Speaker 1: did it sort of find you as you became an adult.
Speaker 1: I had no ambitions, no goals. Um, I just loved music.
Speaker 1: I was like I used to buy forty fives all
Speaker 1: the time. I don't know if you remember that there
Speaker 1: was something called the Phonologue, this huge like yellow paperback
Speaker 1: compendium that you could go and do special orders of
Speaker 1: forty five record stores back then. Do you remember that? Well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I shot at specialty stores. Now they it looks
Speaker 1: like the Yellow Pages, like it's just a masterless So, uh,
Speaker 1: what was the spot we used to stop at in Philly?
Speaker 1: Steve valve v. Yeah, so like you go to val
Speaker 1: Shively and you know, next to Jerry's Rest in peace
Speaker 1: to Jerry's who just passed away like a month ago whatever.
Speaker 1: Like those specialty record stores, like record stores that have
Speaker 1: over one hundred thousand records in stock, they still have
Speaker 1: those books there. So you didn't work at a record store.
Speaker 1: So how would you get access to those records or
Speaker 1: how would you get access to that book? Well, I
Speaker 1: was always listening to the top forty stations in Chicago,
Speaker 1: w l S and w CFL, and I would go
Speaker 1: down to the Marina City, those two buildings that look
Speaker 1: like corn cobs in Chicago, and that's where w l
Speaker 1: S was and I was a kid. I would just
Speaker 1: take the L train down there and you could stand
Speaker 1: in the lobby and watch the DJ on the air,
Speaker 1: and they would have these little surveys that they would
Speaker 1: give you a the top forty records for the week.
Speaker 1: I know this is really kind of going back like
Speaker 1: a rocker, but I figure you probably know, literally the
Speaker 1: show is based on long winded rabbit hole. The whole
Speaker 1: point is to get me to not talk so good. Well, so, anyway,
Speaker 1: so I started, you know, really saying, oh, I want
Speaker 1: a special order these records because I can't find them
Speaker 1: at E J. Corvettes or Montgomery Rewards or something. And
Speaker 1: so back then, as you know, there were always like
Speaker 1: these great independently owned records stores and you could go
Speaker 1: there and if you struck up a good relationship with
Speaker 1: the owner or a clerk, it was a tremendous source
Speaker 1: of knowledge that was passed along and you could special
Speaker 1: order these things and just basically loiter in the store
Speaker 1: and learn a lot. And that in fact, you know,
Speaker 1: we could talk about that in the hip hop era
Speaker 1: is being a big thing here in New York and
Speaker 1: other places. But no, I came here, you know, I
Speaker 1: always I came here with you know, on a dollar
Speaker 1: and a dream, no plans except to go to Studio
Speaker 1: fifty four. And I landed in New York during the
Speaker 1: time when it was sort of like the uh, the
Speaker 1: perfect nexus of punk and disco and no wave was
Speaker 1: happening and sort of the downtown arts scene and all
Speaker 1: that stuff that people lionized so much. But it was
Speaker 1: a great time to be in New York because it
Speaker 1: really was cheap and um. I lived on St. Mark's
Speaker 1: Place between Second and Third, which was basically like the
Speaker 1: main runway for you know, people would get up at
Speaker 1: two three in the afternoon and then sit out on
Speaker 1: the stoop to watch so and so, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Richard Hell come down the street to cop is Dope
Speaker 1: or whatever you know it was. And I wouldn't say
Speaker 1: except it's ginger like now it's expensive property, but back
Speaker 1: then it was she was something to behold. And yeah,
Speaker 1: and there was this woman named Anya Phillips who was
Speaker 1: sort of the one of the co founders of the
Speaker 1: Mud Club, and she was really sort of a downtown Doyenne.
Speaker 1: She was a girlfriend of James White or James Chance,
Speaker 1: you know, contortions, and she uh sat me down one day.
Speaker 1: She's very stern, serving a dominatrix sort the way. He said,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a topless dancer and I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: g strings for you. Because I had no money, and
Speaker 1: as I said, okay, sounds like a plan. And I
Speaker 1: went to this place called the Go Go Agency. And
Speaker 1: I've recounted this tale many times, but there was a
Speaker 1: guy there named Johnny and it was like a scene
Speaker 1: out of Broadway Danny Rose. And you walk up the
Speaker 1: stairs in this Midtown building and there's these big boards
Speaker 1: and it lists all the topless bars and all five boroughs.
Speaker 1: And he would assign you, you know, he was an agent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so he would send me out to places and
Speaker 1: queens like the Carousel, or this place up in the
Speaker 1: Bronx called the Slice, or there was a place over
Speaker 1: in the meatpacking district when it was still a meat
Speaker 1: packing district that you work, you do these and a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff in Midtown because you got a lot
Speaker 1: of had a lot of customers in Midtown back then.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, it was I gotta ask, so I
Speaker 1: you know my my era of I say, I'm part
Speaker 1: of the deaf leopard generation where there's no time where
Speaker 1: I'm not entered a strip club where they forced you
Speaker 1: to listen to pour some sugar on me, except for Atlanta,
Speaker 1: except for Atlanta. But back then, like would you have
Speaker 1: to feed the forty five jukebox? Or was there or
Speaker 1: was it like it is now, like welcome to the stage.
Speaker 1: I wish I had an m C. Welcoming to the stage.
Speaker 1: It wasn't quite that grand. I was gonna ask if
Speaker 1: you had a number, a number plume? Did you? Did
Speaker 1: you have a yes? What's your name? It was Mr
Speaker 1: Smanique And this was all served in the late seventies,
Speaker 1: you know. So the type of records that you were hearing,
Speaker 1: I mean, if I hear you know, ring my bell
Speaker 1: one more time, it's that was sort of like that
Speaker 1: was your per me. It was like it was the
Speaker 1: poursome sugar of me of v totally um, you know.
Speaker 1: But if it was disco, you know, because it was
Speaker 1: sorta it was sort of like when disco it kind
Speaker 1: of peaked and it was much more like these mechanical
Speaker 1: type of records, which not that I'm mad at that,
Speaker 1: but it was those type of records. Ring my Bell
Speaker 1: seems to be the one that always comes back to
Speaker 1: me in my dreams. But I worked at had what
Speaker 1: I call extended residencies at show World, which you might
Speaker 1: be might remember that, uh and peep Land, which was
Speaker 1: also a big player on the on the Deuce back then. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it was steady money, um, good money. I
Speaker 1: made cleared fift dollars a week at the peak. Okay,
Speaker 1: I gotta ask the question, so is this all right?
Speaker 1: You remember how it wasn't Papa, don't preach like open
Speaker 1: your heart. Was it like you sat in a booth
Speaker 1: and you inserted a coin and the thing went up
Speaker 1: and you yeah, does that type of strip clubs still
Speaker 1: exist or is that like a thing of the past.
Speaker 1: Now it's called only fans. No, we need somewhere like
Speaker 1: oh man, No, it was Hey, these only fans chicks.
Speaker 1: I think they were pretty smart. They're much more entrepreneurial.
Speaker 1: I mean back then I got hired and well, like
Speaker 1: to say, for example, the show World, my boss's name
Speaker 1: was a woman named Thunder and she had huge red hair.
Speaker 1: She was like Bensonhurst type of gal and the place
Speaker 1: was owned by a guy who died recently, but it
Speaker 1: was a lot mob owned. It was who was there
Speaker 1: was one of the big mob characters that Frankie the horse,
Speaker 1: I n Ello, there was the guy who ran the
Speaker 1: whole is named after an animal. Then you know that's bad.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. So you know they paid you
Speaker 1: a flat feet but you made your money. You really
Speaker 1: made your money by getting these guys to keep putting
Speaker 1: the coins in and keep the window going up. So
Speaker 1: I would sit on one side and then there'd be
Speaker 1: the curtain, the metal curtain, and the guys will be
Speaker 1: on the other side, and a lot of we had
Speaker 1: a lot of Hasidic customers. Um, then that whole thing
Speaker 1: is let's get into it, let's talk about about But
Speaker 1: you know it's because it's such a repressed, sexually repressed culture.
Speaker 1: I think you'd get a lot uh in in the
Speaker 1: peep shows. All right, I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go there, go there. What happens on the eyes side
Speaker 1: of the booth though, Like, well, is there a clean
Speaker 1: up afterwards? Like? Oh yes, there is? Mob Patrol's first,
Speaker 1: that's right. If when you walk into the place, you
Speaker 1: give them cash, and they give you these tokens, and
Speaker 1: the tokens are what allows you to go to the
Speaker 1: Boost or to watch a Peep movie or things like that. Um,
Speaker 1: they were. They also had live sex shows at show World.
Speaker 1: I didn't do that there, but they had. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the idea was to keep on putting the money in.
Speaker 1: So these were these were skills I was able to
Speaker 1: apply to the music industry not too long afterwards. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you said you didn't do the lives you're there? Did
Speaker 1: you do it somewhere else? Leave it alone? You have to.
Speaker 1: You'll have to ask me back. As I guess theory.
Speaker 1: To answer the second part of the question, I hear
Speaker 1: a longtime New York residents like begging for the time
Speaker 1: when Old new York returns. Is this what they're talking about? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of romanticizing about dirty New
Speaker 1: York of the seventies. I mean literally, the summer I
Speaker 1: got there is when they let out a lot of
Speaker 1: people with mental health issues onto the street. They just
Speaker 1: dumped them on the street. There was a huge garbage strike.
Speaker 1: There had been a big blackout in seven as the
Speaker 1: Tramps told us about, and there was Uh, you know
Speaker 1: it was. It was definitely grungy and dirty. And people
Speaker 1: like to say, oh, wasn't it great back then because
Speaker 1: it attracted all these you know, creative people and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Uh, but I don't really get all. I mean,
Speaker 1: I like to recount the stories about that, but I
Speaker 1: wouldn't want it to go back to that, uh necessarily,
Speaker 1: so you like Post or Disney Giuliani era a little better.
Speaker 1: I think I've shared this on the show once before,
Speaker 1: like the first day that we arrived in New York,
Speaker 1: when the roots like really first came to New York
Speaker 1: to start mixing. Do you want more? I believe like
Speaker 1: in December of ninety three was pretty much like I
Speaker 1: think the day that whatever. I Okay, maybe I've been
Speaker 1: on forty two Street once or twice in my life,
Speaker 1: Like I know we went to go see The Whiz,
Speaker 1: but I don't remember that much at the age of seven,
Speaker 1: but you know, I do remember us going on forty
Speaker 1: two Street near our hotel and like Rich like my
Speaker 1: manager whatnot, being really disappointed that streets disnified and not
Speaker 1: the CD you know, New York that he remembers. And
Speaker 1: I remember like people telling us like that week is
Speaker 1: when the transformation started and everybody was pissed at it.
Speaker 1: So hey, it's nice to be able to be old
Speaker 1: enough to to look back at it and to remember
Speaker 1: it as it was back then. But I'm not getting
Speaker 1: all tears in my beer over you know. Hey, that's perfect.
Speaker 1: I wish it was bad, you know, so club wise,
Speaker 1: you know, I've been trying to get another downtown New
Speaker 1: York diva that made a billion dollar career for yourself
Speaker 1: on this show, but that hasn't happened yet. So I
Speaker 1: guess you are really our first witness to that era,
Speaker 1: can you assuming that by this time you're watching hip
Speaker 1: hop culture creep into downtown? First of all, like, did
Speaker 1: you go north of the Bronx to any of the
Speaker 1: what was known as the classic eras of hip hop,
Speaker 1: like whatever, the Fever or any of those clubs way north? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I've been to the Fever course, no sal
Speaker 1: from back then? Um t Connection Um. Actually, you know
Speaker 1: a funny thing was I ended up bringing Martin Scoresse
Speaker 1: to the Tea Connection one night to hear Bambat to
Speaker 1: play um. And there was sort of an odd set
Speaker 1: of circumstances but you know, yeah, he knew he describe it.
Speaker 1: We were they wait, what era of Raging Bull King
Speaker 1: of Comedy? What era do you This would have been
Speaker 1: circa eight two eighty three, so you tell me all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and um, he was friends with this guy named Jay Cox,
Speaker 1: who was the film at film critic at Time magazine,
Speaker 1: who was related to Tom Silverman, and somehow there was
Speaker 1: a conversation, Oh, Marty would really love to go up
Speaker 1: and check out this hip hop thing, and blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and and you know, I was like, hey, be happy
Speaker 1: to show him and you know, take him up there.
Speaker 1: And so there's a car service, which back that, you know,
Speaker 1: it was a rare thing for maybe have any car
Speaker 1: service every thing. But we went up to a tea connection.
Speaker 1: He was pretty quiet, you know, I think he was
Speaker 1: just checking it out, observing, and you know, the Time
Speaker 1: magazine ended up doing a big story about sort of
Speaker 1: the emerging hip hop scene back then. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: I used to go to, uh, some of the places uptown,
Speaker 1: but more frequently I would go to every Friday night
Speaker 1: I was I We went to the Grille when that
Speaker 1: was having been cool. Lady Blue, you know, had started
Speaker 1: doing her nights at the Grille, and then I would
Speaker 1: always go to UM the Roxy on Friday night, and
Speaker 1: then following the Rocks, he would head up a few
Speaker 1: blocks and go to UM the Fun House. I was
Speaker 1: very friendly with jelly Bean and would hang out with
Speaker 1: him a lot. Yes, so those and then the Dance
Speaker 1: of course, Dance Materia was a really great play uh
Speaker 1: to hang out in. And and you know before that,
Speaker 1: it was like Studio fifty four and the Mud Club.
Speaker 1: We're staples for me, but you know, but yeah, Union
Speaker 1: Squares was a place I went to a lot and
Speaker 1: uh Amazon Hotel that was a big place. Um Patrick
Speaker 1: Moxy had pay Day. I don't know, that was a
Speaker 1: big one day. Lis Soul did a big premiere uh
Speaker 1: performance there and Um, I didn't really hang out at
Speaker 1: Latin Quarters that much. I left that to Dante and
Speaker 1: but but yeah, those were the those were the big
Speaker 1: clubs that were sort of happening back then. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: lure of or the uh yeah, the foclore of Studio
Speaker 1: fifty four, like assuming that it really started to rise
Speaker 1: in seventy seven, when when did it peak? Even though
Speaker 1: I've heard Studio fifty four stories like in four like
Speaker 1: in the half first half of the eighties, like when
Speaker 1: did the allure of Studio fifty four died down? And
Speaker 1: when did it become Was it ever uncol to go there? Yes,
Speaker 1: it was uncool to go there after it closed and
Speaker 1: then it reopened. Um, I would say it peaked in
Speaker 1: seventy nine. It burned fast and hard, and it's extinguished
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, I think that. But you know, just i'd
Speaker 1: say by eighty you know, were you have you ever
Speaker 1: went there at its peak? When oh yeah, yeah, even
Speaker 1: she couldn't get in even though they had like the
Speaker 1: number one song on the charts, Like oh yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I literally, you know, laughed that I you know that
Speaker 1: that I landed at Laguardi Airport and proceeded straight to
Speaker 1: Studio fifty four. But then it's not it's an exaggeration,
Speaker 1: but literally I was like a homing pigeon. I have
Speaker 1: to go to my spiritual home of Studio fifty four.
Speaker 1: And you know, back then, so this is in April
Speaker 1: of seventy eight, and back then, you know, you had
Speaker 1: all the you know, Han von Furisenberg and war Hall
Speaker 1: and lies in, all these people you know as Razzle Dazzle,
Speaker 1: But there was always this, Uh, they always let in
Speaker 1: a group of young kids that if you were dressed
Speaker 1: interestingly enough and added youthful flavor to the crowd, you'd
Speaker 1: stand outside for a little while and Mark Bannicky, who
Speaker 1: was the doorman, who would stand on this perch in
Speaker 1: a huge Normacamali red cocoon coat, would you know, sort
Speaker 1: of look around and act like, you know, he saw
Speaker 1: us out the crowd. I've always had a strategy, though.
Speaker 1: My strategy was to take the subway up to as
Speaker 1: close as a possible to eight and then take a
Speaker 1: cab from the corner to directly in front of Studio
Speaker 1: fifty four, which could take anywhere from thirty to forty
Speaker 1: five minutes because the street was already always packed. But
Speaker 1: the trick was that split second when the cab door opens.
Speaker 1: Mark Bennicky is always looking to see who's getting out
Speaker 1: of cars because it could be Truman cabode, you know,
Speaker 1: but he would at least register you, so you know,
Speaker 1: I spend whatever cents on the subway another maybe four blocks,
Speaker 1: just going half a block and a tactually to make
Speaker 1: sure to get in. See now, Roger should have learned that, listen. Yes,
Speaker 1: he had also been white but you know, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: well listen, there is there's no question about that. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it was not a democracy. It was far from it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the peak. So once that peaks are you
Speaker 1: would you say that Paradise Garage replaced it? Or then
Speaker 1: what was your like what replaced Studio fifty four? As okay,
Speaker 1: that's not cool, no more, let's go to this spot,
Speaker 1: you know what, it wasn't an either or I mean
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff going on the Simultaneously. There
Speaker 1: was a place called ras that was very popular. There
Speaker 1: was a place called the Continental Bath, I mean not
Speaker 1: the Continental Bands. That's another place, the Continental Club. There
Speaker 1: was dance Interia, there was a mud club, there's a
Speaker 1: a cv GPS was still you know, it was very
Speaker 1: big still back then. And then there was of course
Speaker 1: places like Xenon, which was sort of like the poor
Speaker 1: relation to Studio fifty four. You know, you couldn't get
Speaker 1: into Studio fifty four you would go to Zenan. And
Speaker 1: then there was also um, what's that sex club? What's it?
Speaker 1: Sex club that everyone went to, the Swingers Club. I
Speaker 1: forget the name of it. It was very poper hey son.
Speaker 1: But you know what in my mind right now. So
Speaker 1: it eluded him. This is why we have guests on
Speaker 1: the show. I'm trying to you know, I was going
Speaker 1: up there, but at this rate I was doing old duops.
Speaker 1: Was like, I didn't see this part of New York. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know you certainly have Vinceletti's
Speaker 1: uh Disco Files. Yes, I think the Disco Files book
Speaker 1: is a really great lay of the land. Okay, the
Speaker 1: clubs that were happening and when they were happening, because
Speaker 1: it didn't just like jump from Studio fifty four to say,
Speaker 1: Paradise Crash and Paradise Garrash was such a different There
Speaker 1: might have been some overlap, but it was a very
Speaker 1: different vibe, very different crowd. I was not a member
Speaker 1: of Paradise Squash. I did go there on many occasions,
Speaker 1: but you had to it was he had to reach
Speaker 1: out to the guy. Um it was at Richard Brody
Speaker 1: I think was the name of the guy that owned
Speaker 1: the club and get get on the guest list for
Speaker 1: the night and all. It was too hard to get it. Okay,
Speaker 1: well you have to be a you know, as a
Speaker 1: membership club. Question before your record label days, were you
Speaker 1: seeing any bands or artists like forming clubs or were
Speaker 1: you strictly just like a club kid listening to DJs?
Speaker 1: You know, I was actually more interested in the DJ's
Speaker 1: to tell you the UM and I still am um
Speaker 1: the I mean, yeah, I see these shows and everything,
Speaker 1: but I didn't have I never had the same fervor
Speaker 1: about seeing live concerts except for Roxy Music and I'm
Speaker 1: a rock total Roxy music geek fan. Love Brian Ferry,
Speaker 1: like going back to mid seventies, but so that was
Speaker 1: oh and I was also loved to go see Bowie
Speaker 1: and LaBelle. LaBelle was a definitely appointment, you know. That
Speaker 1: was like a big deal to go to LaBelle shows
Speaker 1: back in the seventies. Were you there for their infamous
Speaker 1: where I think they did something at the Lincoln Center
Speaker 1: where everyone had to wear something silver? Oh yeah, no, no, no, yes,
Speaker 1: that was the Chameleon Tour, I believe, yes, and with
Speaker 1: all the costumes that were by Larry Legaspi, the late
Speaker 1: Larry Legaspi, who's being um, there's a big book that
Speaker 1: um uh Rick Owens is doing a tribute to Larry Legaspi.
Speaker 1: But this was in I believe seventies six, because I
Speaker 1: think after the Chameleon tour, they kind of broke up
Speaker 1: if I'm yeah, But I was in Chicago and me
Speaker 1: and all my friends, I was hanging out with this huge, gay,
Speaker 1: glammy crowd and we all dressed as reptiles to go
Speaker 1: to the LaBelle concert. And I dressed in this green
Speaker 1: sequined lizard outfit that I put together, and actually and
Speaker 1: all my friends did. I still have photos of it.
Speaker 1: And I was invited to go up on stage and
Speaker 1: dance with Nona and Sarah and I have the photos
Speaker 1: of it too. I have the receipts. But it was
Speaker 1: it was incredible. I mean, this is this is when
Speaker 1: the audience was really at one with LaBelle and and
Speaker 1: you know people felt that way too about going to
Speaker 1: Bowie and and and Roxy music. Everyone wanted to dress
Speaker 1: as glamorously as Brian Ferry. You know. So um, but
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be that. I'm not that person
Speaker 1: to say, oh, yeah, I was at such and such
Speaker 1: you know concert or anything like that. Okay, So for you,
Speaker 1: did you know an immediate sonic difference when you were
Speaker 1: frequenting clubs that were more hip hop based, and I
Speaker 1: mean way before there were rap labels, or even before
Speaker 1: your time at your tenure at at at a Tommy
Speaker 1: Boy like if you're seeing like, do you remember your
Speaker 1: first rap club experience pre your record label days? Hmmm, No,
Speaker 1: I don't because I think that I started. I think
Speaker 1: probably the first club that I recall going to was
Speaker 1: probably in the Grill. So it's not like I was,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I was at Harlem World in nine blah blah. No,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like that. I was. Is this that the
Speaker 1: grill that's on the Grill? I think was down on
Speaker 1: like Second Avenue around maybe four sixth Street. Lady Blue Uh.
Speaker 1: Freddie was very involved in sort of helping, you know,
Speaker 1: coalesced the uptown downtown scenes together. Um, you know, Bam
Speaker 1: was deejaying there and I think I think Rex Steady
Speaker 1: performed There's it was like a small sort of cramped
Speaker 1: basement space. It was really you know, um not yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: I get it now when people mentioned the Grill, of course,
Speaker 1: me being an entry in the nineties, I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: the upscale jamaking restaurant. Yeah, thinking that maybe it was
Speaker 1: once a hip hop club like in the eighties or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I'm realizing that I got fooled. So can you
Speaker 1: tell me how you got pulled into the record industry. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: I was waiting. I left my my thriving career at
Speaker 1: show World and people and and uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: made this, you know, incredibly brilliant determination that the people
Speaker 1: who I was, the people I was working with, the
Speaker 1: people I was working for and the customers were all
Speaker 1: pretty much a dead end. Um and and I wasn't
Speaker 1: and I wasn't getting any younger. So I started waiting tables,
Speaker 1: ended up working graveyard at a place called the Empire Diner. Um.
Speaker 1: I was living in the Chelsea Hotel. So there's like
Speaker 1: all the bona fee days for like, yeah, she checks
Speaker 1: all the box or so like seventies early eighties um
Speaker 1: and Uh. But because I had always been such a
Speaker 1: music fan and I was, I was like, what's that
Speaker 1: you're playing? What's that you're playing? You know? But you know,
Speaker 1: I loved it. I just I decided to go to this.
Speaker 1: I heard about something called the New Music Seminar, and
Speaker 1: it was the first conference that Tom Silverman put together
Speaker 1: with his two partners, Mark Josephson and uh, I'm not
Speaker 1: even sure Joel Webber was part of it at that point,
Speaker 1: but it was in a small It was in recording
Speaker 1: studio up in Yorkville. And this is probably UH or
Speaker 1: one so and I, you know, met Tom at a
Speaker 1: pizza place during a break. I said, Hey, I'm Monica,
Speaker 1: you know, okay whatever, And then UH guy named Bob
Speaker 1: Pittman was speaking at this conference and he started. He
Speaker 1: announced they there was a new new thing that they
Speaker 1: were about to launch called MTV. And I approached him afterwards.
Speaker 1: I said, oh man, this sounds great. I would love
Speaker 1: to work for you. He you know, completely ignored me.
Speaker 1: And about a year so I just kept waiting tables.
Speaker 1: And then about a year later I saw an ad
Speaker 1: for a guy Gal Friday and the Village Voice. This
Speaker 1: is back when people whether or no, there was no
Speaker 1: LinkedIn UH. You had to buy a Village Voice to
Speaker 1: get a job. You had to buy the Village Voice
Speaker 1: or the New York Times, you know, and you on
Speaker 1: the Sunday New York Times, you know, and go through
Speaker 1: all these little, you know, mouse type listenings. And I
Speaker 1: saw an ad for a guy Gal Friday for a
Speaker 1: UM dance Music I think he said Dance Music Publication,
Speaker 1: Slash record Company. I still have the ad. I still
Speaker 1: have it on Oh yeah, a little yellow piece of
Speaker 1: paper that I cut out. I have it in an
Speaker 1: envelope and and I called the number and it was
Speaker 1: tom and he didn't remember me, but um I remembered him.
Speaker 1: And he told me, yeah, you know dance music. I
Speaker 1: have dance music report. I just started this label called
Speaker 1: Tommy Boy. And you know this would be to be
Speaker 1: like my right hand person. Blah blah blah, and uh
Speaker 1: they were. At this point, I was actually living in
Speaker 1: servants quarters up on the Upper West Side. I was
Speaker 1: bouncing around a lot of places. That's always the top
Speaker 1: floor of a that's right. I was second. I was second.
Speaker 1: I was seconds away from buying a five story house
Speaker 1: in Harlem in the heights before after Hamilton's. Then the
Speaker 1: prices really jacked up. It was like Hamilton's Row, and
Speaker 1: it looked as large as like the Huxtables crib in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: But you know, the basement was tricked out. The first floor,
Speaker 1: then they had the second, fourth, third, fourth, fourth floor,
Speaker 1: and then on the fifth floor that's usually where the
Speaker 1: maid or the nanny. You know, this house is also
Speaker 1: hundreds of years old. You imagine that's where the help.
Speaker 1: So that kept your legs that at least kept your
Speaker 1: legs in in safe because you'd have to go up
Speaker 1: five flights of stairs. Yes, for these tiny little rooms.
Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, shared bathrooms. Whatever. It was fine.
Speaker 1: It was like maybe fifty seventy five bucks a week
Speaker 1: or something. But I had these numerous phone calls with
Speaker 1: Tom trying to convince some way he should hire me
Speaker 1: because I didn't have a college education. He did. He's like, well,
Speaker 1: where you know, what have you done before? And like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I worked at peep Land and uh, this
Speaker 1: was you know, you know, and he wasn't thoroughly convinced.
Speaker 1: But then once he said, well, okay, listen, tomorrow, I'm
Speaker 1: going out to pick up the twelve inches of the
Speaker 1: new Tommy Boy release and you can come. You can
Speaker 1: ride along with me. So I'm like, okay, cool, this
Speaker 1: is my shot. And uh so I meet up with him.
Speaker 1: He lives in the uh two bedroom apartment over in Yorkville,
Speaker 1: let's face it, the heart of exactly, uh, the upper
Speaker 1: east side on the fire he said, you know where
Speaker 1: the Mayor's home is? Where, yes, York Avenue right exactly,
Speaker 1: you know. So we drive out to Long Island City
Speaker 1: and his hatchback. I don't know if that's a thing,
Speaker 1: if they even make hatchbacks anymore, but it was. We
Speaker 1: drove out there in his hatchback to this uh pressing
Speaker 1: plant called a Pexton and it was owned by these
Speaker 1: two Polish brothers. And and so what they do is
Speaker 1: when you know, when Tom had ordered a pressing, if
Speaker 1: I don't know a thousand or whatever of this record,
Speaker 1: they will him out to the curb in fifty count boxes.
Speaker 1: And you know, Tom opens up the back of the
Speaker 1: hatchback and I started slinging in these fifty count boxes.
Speaker 1: And I'm a girl from Chicago. Man, It's like, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm a big girl from Chicago. I have no problem
Speaker 1: lifting up heavy ship and slinging it. So he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: she got some muscle on her, all right, you got
Speaker 1: the job. So that's how I started. But I had
Speaker 1: to keep waiting on tables when I started because I
Speaker 1: couldn't afford you know, the pay wasn't a whole lot.
Speaker 1: So I was working on tables at night and working
Speaker 1: for Tom during the day. So what year was this
Speaker 1: or is this after Planet Rock or like what you no?
Speaker 1: No before December of eighty one. I was the first employee.
Speaker 1: Your memory is incredible, Monica Lynch. I can't even your memories,
Speaker 1: but I love this. This tells me that you didn't
Speaker 1: do much drugs in the eighties, because oh no, that's
Speaker 1: not truly. Usually our guests are like a man, I
Speaker 1: don't remember selective membery what you know it is? You
Speaker 1: have selective memory about certain things. If you asked me
Speaker 1: other things, I say, I can't remember, but this stuff
Speaker 1: I do remember. So was this the jazzy jay like
Speaker 1: funky sensation era of Yes? In fact, it was. That's right,
Speaker 1: That's what it was like exactly. That was when I
Speaker 1: started in in December of Tommy actually, about a week
Speaker 1: after I started, went away for a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: to Jamaica for uh an extended vacation with his girlfriend,
Speaker 1: and UM, Jazz Sensation had just come out, and so
Speaker 1: you know, my duties were split between Tommy Boy, the
Speaker 1: sledgling label, Tommy Boy, and Dance Music Report, which was
Speaker 1: which was a disco DJ tip sheet, UM, which I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember that, but it was an
Speaker 1: important publication in its time. So he went on vacation
Speaker 1: and left me with you know, my sort of semi
Speaker 1: defined duties, and one of them was, you know, to
Speaker 1: make sure to you know, take the orders for Jazzy
Speaker 1: Sensation and you know, make sure the pressing planned has
Speaker 1: got the records going and all this other stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: sure enough, I took an order from a one stop
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know what a one stop is. Okay, yes,
Speaker 1: service sub category of an independent distributor, so um. And
Speaker 1: it was an account that we didn't weren't open with,
Speaker 1: and so I took an order and then come to
Speaker 1: find out that it was some guy who was a
Speaker 1: ghan If and wasn't going to be paying us. And
Speaker 1: Tom totally like reamed me about that. But when you
Speaker 1: mean like some friends of ours, some friends of ours, well,
Speaker 1: I just bought a hardcover copy of The Joys of
Speaker 1: Yiddish for a friend of mine today. Because when you
Speaker 1: say because I said, I said there, I said, oh,
Speaker 1: you know this person, blah blah, they're great, but they
Speaker 1: have no rookmanis and she's what's roknis? I'm like, you've
Speaker 1: never worked in the music industry. You don't know what
Speaker 1: ghan if or Ramon is or you know, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean it basically meant the guy wasn't
Speaker 1: who served a thief, wasn't planning on paying us. In
Speaker 1: my mind, the difference between Tommy Boy and well, I'm
Speaker 1: saying the hip hop labels that came before, because really
Speaker 1: we're talking sugar Hill is what I feel is notable
Speaker 1: about those two labels is that, you know, within Joy
Speaker 1: and sugar Hill, I definitely know that, you know, Mars
Speaker 1: Levy had his hands or quote Mars Leavey types more
Speaker 1: gangster run era of the music industry. How is one
Speaker 1: able to start a label, an independent label in the
Speaker 1: early eighties without someone trying to muscle you for a piece? Now,
Speaker 1: even though okay, so Jazzy Sensation wasn't exactly Planet Rock,
Speaker 1: but for our listeners that are people, Jazzy Sensation is
Speaker 1: a hip hop rendition of Gwen McCrae's uh sort of time,
Speaker 1: Can you feel it? Can you feel it? Sensation? Sensation? Yeah? Right, So, like,
Speaker 1: are you aware of the strong arm of the connected
Speaker 1: folks that sugar Hill and Enjoy Records definitely were, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, that's a good question. Um, sugar Hill was
Speaker 1: definitely you know, Joe and Sylvia and um, there was
Speaker 1: a guy named Malden, who was sort of the other
Speaker 1: co founder of Cigarretto. No, no, not Michael. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: now this guy was Yugoslavian. He was started put in
Speaker 1: nearby Morris Levy to you know, make sure the money
Speaker 1: situation was whatever it was going to be. And but
Speaker 1: but I would say that there it was a very
Speaker 1: much a entrepreneurial cottage industry at that point, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think in Joy Records, Bobby Robinson's label is
Speaker 1: more in that vein. But you what you also had.
Speaker 1: And I just have to give a shout out to
Speaker 1: Corey Robbins because um Corey, Yes, co founder of of
Speaker 1: of Profile Records. Corey actually came to the office when
Speaker 1: Tom was away and he just knocked down the door
Speaker 1: and said, Hey, I'm Corey. You know I have Profile Records.
Speaker 1: If any if you need anything, if anything goes wrong,
Speaker 1: you have any questions, please feel free to get in
Speaker 1: touch with me. It's like, wow, thank you. I appreciate
Speaker 1: it because I didn't have a lot of questions. But
Speaker 1: there was this There were labels that were really the
Speaker 1: the you know dance, the post disco dance labels like
Speaker 1: west End and Prelude, who there. It wasn't so much
Speaker 1: about some sort of cultural bubbling up. It was more
Speaker 1: about what was selling, Okay, seal cells over your peaked
Speaker 1: or whatever. So maybe it's you know, Tanya Gardner or uh,
Speaker 1: you know something right exactly things that are bubbling up
Speaker 1: that are more from the street and including hip hop.
Speaker 1: But it was more of a commercial imperative, I think,
Speaker 1: than an artistic decision or cultural reflection so much. And
Speaker 1: I think the same thing is absolutely true with sugar
Speaker 1: Hill and Enjoy. I mean, you've got you know, Bobby
Speaker 1: Robinson and Joe and Sylvia. I mean, look at their
Speaker 1: histories with the labels that they had, so I think
Speaker 1: that they were all these were independent labels were owned
Speaker 1: by people who were looking around the landscape and saying
Speaker 1: where can I make money next? Okay, So if you're
Speaker 1: doing jazzy sensation, assuming that you were there for its
Speaker 1: very first order, how many pieces are you ordering and
Speaker 1: how many like just walk me through? How does one
Speaker 1: spread it? So? How many go to DJs so they
Speaker 1: can get played? Are you hoping that Frankie Crocker plays
Speaker 1: it so that it might go national? And then if
Speaker 1: it does well? In other words, the problem that was
Speaker 1: presented in Crushed Groove, which I forget what single it
Speaker 1: was like they had a single so successful that they
Speaker 1: didn't have enough money to print it. Then yes, the yeah,
Speaker 1: the worst thing that could happen to you as a hit,
Speaker 1: like the producers you know, Um, okay, so let's even
Speaker 1: though I want you to lead up the Planet Rock,
Speaker 1: I'm certain that that was a problem for you guys
Speaker 1: because that was a worldwide smash. So how do you
Speaker 1: operate and service the world? And how do you know
Speaker 1: what the world wants? How do you know what a
Speaker 1: local record store in Germany wants? How do you know
Speaker 1: if Dr Dre or Uncle Jam is playing it in
Speaker 1: l a Like? How how do you spread the word?
Speaker 1: Like who's the person that you're trying to get this
Speaker 1: record to hoping that it will become a thing. Well, listen,
Speaker 1: back then, it was a very small network and um,
Speaker 1: and when Jazz Sensation was out, I mean I would
Speaker 1: always tell people, you know, Jazz Sensation really was what
Speaker 1: I would call a regional record. Um, it was popular
Speaker 1: in the mid Atlantic area. Um, Tommy Boys certainly didn't
Speaker 1: have the We had not set up sort of a
Speaker 1: national network, which may or may not have even been
Speaker 1: uh you know, might have made a difference. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that back then there was
Speaker 1: such a small number of people to even go to.
Speaker 1: You know, we uh were dealing directly with Magic when
Speaker 1: he was still on HBI, Um, you know, Islam Head,
Speaker 1: Zulu Beats, Supreme Team, there was, I mean this is
Speaker 1: before Red was on Kiss. I mean there was you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of this was through club DJ's and uh
Speaker 1: and to some degree these sort of specialty mix shows
Speaker 1: that were starting to merge, some of them on college,
Speaker 1: college and university stations. But at that point, you know,
Speaker 1: you were talking Nino. It was it's a short window
Speaker 1: really between Jazzy Sensation and Planet Rock. As Planet Rock
Speaker 1: came out, I think it was April of eighty two. Um,
Speaker 1: so it's a really big difference. The so you had, uh,
Speaker 1: the independent record stores who by the way, you know,
Speaker 1: I have had a recent conversation with someone about this
Speaker 1: that if if there was ever a documentary that someone
Speaker 1: was gonna consider doing, I think the history of independent
Speaker 1: record stores, Black independent record stores and their role in
Speaker 1: hip hop and dance music as as an untold story.
Speaker 1: But I would say the record stores played a big
Speaker 1: role in spreading the word and playing the records. The
Speaker 1: club DJs were more important at that point servicing record pools.
Speaker 1: I mean we I still, yes, I still have lists
Speaker 1: of the record pools and the record pool directors and
Speaker 1: we would keep a running or you know, running list
Speaker 1: of how many members do you have and who do
Speaker 1: you service and blah blah blah. So how many counts
Speaker 1: do you have to service? How many counts do you
Speaker 1: have to service for a record pool? You know, some
Speaker 1: of these record pools might have like the Shore record
Speaker 1: pool that was run by a guy named Bobby Davis
Speaker 1: up in the bronx Um. He said, ah, you know,
Speaker 1: hundred fifty members, two hundred members, or you know, you'd
Speaker 1: have maybe a Rickets Records out in New Jersey and
Speaker 1: they might have seventy five members, or some record pool
Speaker 1: out on Long Island or you know whatever it was.
Speaker 1: But you know the thing with the record fool directors
Speaker 1: is that they were they sort of were had more
Speaker 1: of more power than that they did in the in
Speaker 1: the years to come, and then well you have to
Speaker 1: give us full service or nothing, even though happen, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of their members would never touch a rap record, okay,
Speaker 1: so they would just sell it, so they would sell
Speaker 1: it or you know, or it would just be like,
Speaker 1: you know, go into the uh you know, the vinyl
Speaker 1: dump or whatever. But it was you know, so go ahead.
Speaker 1: Is that why sometimes when I get records then they
Speaker 1: have that little uh cut open hole on the top
Speaker 1: left corner. Is that to differentiate a promotional record? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know what that was for. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's yeah. They were. They were so notched, like a
Speaker 1: neutered cat, you know. You know, it was a promo,
Speaker 1: you know, but that didn't necessarily prevent something being resold.
Speaker 1: But you know, it only would resell if it was
Speaker 1: a hit. Who fucking cares if it's not a hit record,
Speaker 1: you out? Um, so you know anyway, but it was
Speaker 1: a small world, you know in New York. Uh you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: you'd want to make sure Chef Petty Bone or Sergio
Speaker 1: Munzubai or the Latin Rascals on w K to You
Speaker 1: or dj Um Jose Animal DZ. You know, you had
Speaker 1: Carlos Jejeseus on w K to You Rest in Peace.
Speaker 1: You had uh, Barry Mayo and Tony Humphries over kiss
Speaker 1: Berry Mayo still friend, really fantastic guy. All these guys
Speaker 1: were DJs first before I got to know them as
Speaker 1: remixers and editors, because you're mentioning Tony Humphries and the
Speaker 1: Latin Rascals and they were actual DJs first before. Oh yeah, Tony, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, Chef Petty Bone was very important the master
Speaker 1: mix on Kiss FM, you know. So and yeah, of
Speaker 1: course Frankie was always at the top of the you know,
Speaker 1: the top of the food chain, you know, like if
Speaker 1: you can get Frankie to play a record, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: And Frankie was someone who I mean, I knew him
Speaker 1: and counted him as a friend as as many did. Um.
Speaker 1: But uh. And he was always very interested in what
Speaker 1: was coming up from the street. Here you see all
Speaker 1: these photos of him hanging in the booth at Paradise
Speaker 1: Garage or whatever. He didn't want to be left behind
Speaker 1: on any of this stuff. But it was, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he was the original human sism looking over the shoulders,
Speaker 1: trying to copy what was he wanted. He was very
Speaker 1: savvy about knowing what was coming up. He that was
Speaker 1: he had to do that, and he did it so
Speaker 1: successfully for so many years. Um. But you know, Frankie
Speaker 1: was Frankie and he was very uh, you know, you
Speaker 1: had to deal with Frankie like you know, he was royalty,
Speaker 1: knew he was radio royalty. You know. So in order
Speaker 1: to are you allowed to speak of the methods of
Speaker 1: how you were able to get a record played? I
Speaker 1: would like to think, I mean, I would like to
Speaker 1: think that a song like Planet Rock was so futuristic
Speaker 1: that DJs would naturally be like, yeah, I gotta play
Speaker 1: this ship. But for an album like that, did you
Speaker 1: have to in sure ways like how we're rap records
Speaker 1: broken in markets that were unpennagable, but you managed to
Speaker 1: get them more in anyway. Well, that's a that's another
Speaker 1: good question. Um. The answer is yes, we had to
Speaker 1: take care of business. And uh, I want to mention,
Speaker 1: by the way, since Philly looms so large here, that
Speaker 1: there was a really great um remembrance of a guy
Speaker 1: named Snooky Jones in Philadelphia who passed away recently. He
Speaker 1: was a record promoter and there was he there was
Speaker 1: a great remembrance of the scene in the h W
Speaker 1: d As parking lot where butter Ball Tampoo orrow of
Speaker 1: course Reign Supreme and how all the promo guys who
Speaker 1: pull up on I forget what record day was there.
Speaker 1: I don't know what record day was. Uh, let's say
Speaker 1: it was Monday, doesn't matter. They you know, they all
Speaker 1: be there in the parking lot jammed up waiting for
Speaker 1: Butter to you know, a light from his uh car
Speaker 1: and get at him about whatever their releases were. But
Speaker 1: the answer, the short answer is yes, it doesn't listen.
Speaker 1: If it was a hit, you definitely had to pay,
Speaker 1: and if it wasn't a hit, you could waste a
Speaker 1: lot of money. But and people are happy to take
Speaker 1: your money, but that doesn't mean you're going to get
Speaker 1: any airplay. So you mean if it was a hit,
Speaker 1: as in, if it sounded good and you felt it
Speaker 1: deserved to be on the radio, then you determine this
Speaker 1: is going to be a hit. Yeah. Sure, there's the
Speaker 1: there's there's things that deserve a lot of things, but
Speaker 1: there's um. But you still have to pay to play
Speaker 1: if you wanna there's one thing to get play on
Speaker 1: a mixed show or even play or as they used
Speaker 1: to say, daytime. You know like that it was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you didn't get daytime, you know. Um, but if
Speaker 1: you wanted that official ad that's getting reported to Billboard
Speaker 1: and R and R and whatever the other bibles were.
Speaker 1: At that point, you had to take care of business
Speaker 1: and we did. How Nightmares was the planet experience? Well,
Speaker 1: I would say it was less in terms of demand.
Speaker 1: In terms of demand, well, it was an immediate hit,
Speaker 1: and it was something that you know, of course, we
Speaker 1: weren't necessarily prepared for. But you you do everything you can,
Speaker 1: and what we would do is essentially, uh, get try
Speaker 1: and get advanced payments from distributors in exchange for a
Speaker 1: discounted rate on the units. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So somebody said, yeah, we'll pay you uh whatever, say
Speaker 1: dollars or you know whatever. You know, if we pay
Speaker 1: you up front, can you give us this many units
Speaker 1: at this price as opposed to what the regular price was.
Speaker 1: So those are the type of things we had to
Speaker 1: do to make sure that we kept the pressing plant.
Speaker 1: You know, we were able to pay for the pressing
Speaker 1: and and all the other you know, jackets, labels and
Speaker 1: all the other stuff shipping, you know, all that stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: hopefully by this point you guys ramped up to more
Speaker 1: than just a two person operation, correct, Yeah, Well that
Speaker 1: record allowed Tommy Boy to ramp up to more than
Speaker 1: a two person operation. You know, it literally exploded. It
Speaker 1: created opportunities and marketplaces that we didn't have at that
Speaker 1: point because it was because this record did go national
Speaker 1: and went global. Um. And it was the type of record.
Speaker 1: It's been recounted many times, of course, but it was
Speaker 1: the type of record that really traveled exceptionally. Well it
Speaker 1: was a car record, you know, I had that percolating
Speaker 1: melodic sound so automatically, you know, California, Florida, Texas, Detroit, Detroit,
Speaker 1: you know, all these places that were not necessarily hip
Speaker 1: hop markets yet um, that really cracked the code. You
Speaker 1: know in a lot of those places that electro sound
Speaker 1: Tommy Boys early days, the first wave of success that
Speaker 1: Tommy Boy had was definitely with electro records. It was
Speaker 1: the Arthur Baker John Roby Productions with Salsonic Force, Planet Patrol,
Speaker 1: and then of course we had Johnson Crew with Michael
Speaker 1: Johnson and you know, uh they were that had some
Speaker 1: uh like was huge like in Houston, that was big
Speaker 1: in in l A. When I visited family in Pasadena
Speaker 1: and summer of eighty three, they were only playing the
Speaker 1: Space Cowboy and it was like, that's when I realized
Speaker 1: things were regional, because I've never heard it wasn't an
Speaker 1: East Coast record. Well, I knew about Pat Jam, but
Speaker 1: I definitely didn't know about Space Cowboy. That's right, that's right,
Speaker 1: that's right, because we were like, why is it big
Speaker 1: in Houston? And it was like, oh, because there's like
Speaker 1: a big I guess Nassaurs, you know, whatever was going
Speaker 1: on down there. There's a huge space thing. So there
Speaker 1: were so yeah, and some of these things were like
Speaker 1: a slower sound was sort of also, you know, like
Speaker 1: in the South and some places. There were just these
Speaker 1: different vibes and cultural geographical differences that you know, you
Speaker 1: could see with some records, but we had um also
Speaker 1: Globe and whiz Kid play that beat, and you know,
Speaker 1: and with the Double Ski remix, and uh, I'm probably
Speaker 1: overlooking some things, but there was it was this brief
Speaker 1: window between say late eighty wand into maybe eighty four
Speaker 1: where we had this really dominant electro sound and then
Speaker 1: I think once I you know, it's like, oh ship.
Speaker 1: As soon as they're you know, run DMC, I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: C change and you know, Keith Blanc, who I'm sure
Speaker 1: you know who he is because it's a fellow drummer.
Speaker 1: You know. He told me a story recently about how
Speaker 1: as part of the sugar Hill Band he remembered traveling
Speaker 1: with sugar Hill Gang and you know, working the studio
Speaker 1: there on all these records and all this stuff. And
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, you know, I remember one day waking
Speaker 1: up and hearing Planet Rock and saying, I think there's
Speaker 1: a c change going on here, guys, because they did Scorpio.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yep, that's all right, you grand mass of
Speaker 1: flast in the first five. We'll really keep a plank
Speaker 1: and uh uh yeah yeah, Doug, Doug Winbush Skip did Scorpio,
Speaker 1: I get it. Yeah, So from the live thing into
Speaker 1: like this electro thing was a different thing. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously you maintained the trust of tom Um. Did you
Speaker 1: get immediately helm president or were you head of A
Speaker 1: and R first, or I mean was the position real
Speaker 1: or it was just a title for paper only. Look,
Speaker 1: I worked my fucking ass off. I did a lot
Speaker 1: of different things. And no, no, no, I don't mean
Speaker 1: in a dismissive way, but I mean, like you guys
Speaker 1: have a real office and receptionists and oh I know
Speaker 1: what you know, back then, it was like, um, it
Speaker 1: was all these all the labels were just scrappy operations.
Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't have like any fanciness or nothing. Really,
Speaker 1: why I tell you we worked in the second bedroom
Speaker 1: out of Tom's apartment, and then we moved into two
Speaker 1: different basement offices in your fell and then we moved
Speaker 1: in above the soccer store on First Day Avenue in
Speaker 1: New Yorkville and sort of built it out there, but
Speaker 1: it was never fancy. Foursome DS made their entry in
Speaker 1: eighty five, and Foursome d S. I think at the
Speaker 1: time it was way different than what you guys were
Speaker 1: normally associated with. And I know Tom's love and history
Speaker 1: of old school uh doo wop music and you know,
Speaker 1: so basically, you know what what boys them in really
Speaker 1: pulled off successfully in ninety one, I mean Foursome D's
Speaker 1: was that in terms of the flue print for that.
Speaker 1: You know. The thing is is that the Foursome ds
Speaker 1: came to us actually through Mr Magick at the Foursome
Speaker 1: D's had been on the scene for some time, which
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that they as the Foursome Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the foursom cs and Tom loved doo wop and
Speaker 1: he started saw this hip hop doo wop group in
Speaker 1: the four S m d S. And the woman who
Speaker 1: was his first wife, her was Robin Helping, and she
Speaker 1: was very very talented jazz musician and she actually uh
Speaker 1: co wrote and produced a lot of those early four
Speaker 1: SMDs records. You know, let me love, it'sn't for a scratch,
Speaker 1: you know, let's not forget. They were in that first
Speaker 1: movie was a fat Yeah. They did the record with
Speaker 1: the Fat Boys. Um uh here I go again. All
Speaker 1: these really beautiful records, and but they were the thing
Speaker 1: with the four S m d S. They were always
Speaker 1: pitted against new addition, and New Addition was the group
Speaker 1: at that point that had the more of the female
Speaker 1: audience that was really sort of going crazy for them.
Speaker 1: It was always the four s m d S a
Speaker 1: new edition that were sort of going head to head
Speaker 1: and that early sort of boy group vocal hip hop
Speaker 1: you know ur you know R and B thing. But
Speaker 1: the thing, the big turning point for or the four
Speaker 1: S m d S, and this is a story that
Speaker 1: I was very involved with, was when Crushed Groove was
Speaker 1: being made um one of the producers was my boyfriend
Speaker 1: at the time. His name is Doug McHenry and yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and Dog and I was staying with Dog at the
Speaker 1: Mayflower Hotel while they were doing the film, him and
Speaker 1: his his late partner, UM George Jackson, George Jackson, George W. Slight.
Speaker 1: Wait can I can I insert one story only mere style? Um,
Speaker 1: you remember the boom, the Internet boom of like the
Speaker 1: early auts, when everyone thought the Internet was going to
Speaker 1: be like this gold mine of a thing, the same
Speaker 1: way that bitcoin is now. And we struck a deal
Speaker 1: to sell Okay player, and and I believe we broke
Speaker 1: her to deal with George Jackson, and the way that
Speaker 1: I was metaphorically burning cigars with one hundred dollar bills
Speaker 1: like all y'all kiss my ass like I'm about to
Speaker 1: be rich rich rich and Monday Richard calls me and
Speaker 1: says deals off. I'm like, what happened? And he's like,
Speaker 1: George Jackson died anyway, I'm sorry, Yes, with George Jackson.
Speaker 1: Interjection is obviously the art of the of the game here.
Speaker 1: So but anyway, So I was so I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: here I am, I'm with Doug, I'm dating Doug. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, and he's like telling me, yeah, we're doing
Speaker 1: the soundtrack on Warner Brothers for Crush Cove and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. And I'm like, awesome, let me get a
Speaker 1: slat on there for the four semt s. You know.
Speaker 1: He says, you know, but your audition, Like sorry, you know,
Speaker 1: you're everything. So I'm like, so, I'm like, really, my secret.
Speaker 1: They did my secret in the movie. It so, but
Speaker 1: here's what happens. So the Crush Grow sound track, the
Speaker 1: movie's getting wrapped up the soundtrack because you know, lead
Speaker 1: times were crazy back then. They had to master the
Speaker 1: soundtrack all this. The deadlines were crazy. And then I
Speaker 1: get this call from Doug and he's like, there was
Speaker 1: supposed to be this big ballad slot on the album
Speaker 1: and it was dedicated to New Addition and Jimmy jam
Speaker 1: and Terry Lewis. We're gonna produce a song with New Addition.
Speaker 1: I'm like, fucking man. And then he calls me because
Speaker 1: you're not gonna believe it. New Edition had to pull
Speaker 1: out because some sort of crazy legal issues. They had
Speaker 1: a lot of problems back that New Edition with their
Speaker 1: management and lawsuits. All this ship was going on. He goes,
Speaker 1: can you get four s m d S up to
Speaker 1: Minneapolis tomorrow? Like, and I'm like, yeah, what do we
Speaker 1: gotta do? You know? Blah blah blah blah. Of course
Speaker 1: it was not exactly the next day, but it was
Speaker 1: within a matter of two or three days. And it
Speaker 1: was like involved calls with Ron Sweeney and Jimmy and
Speaker 1: Terry and all this other stuff. And and of course
Speaker 1: the four s m d S in their father and
Speaker 1: the father who is a manager of Bob Blundie. They
Speaker 1: get up there, they record this record called Tenderlove, and
Speaker 1: it goes on the soundtrack at the very last minute,
Speaker 1: and guess what. It's the first top ten pop hit
Speaker 1: for Jimmy and Terry and it was the big lead.
Speaker 1: It was the big smash hit of the album. And
Speaker 1: it was through that that Warner Brothers got interested in
Speaker 1: doing a deal with Tommy Boy at this place. Are
Speaker 1: you shocked that, even though you know Sylvie Robinson was
Speaker 1: running show Gable Records or whatnot, were women in executive
Speaker 1: positions really not a thing? And I'm I'm I'm taking
Speaker 1: it out of hip hop just general at labels, Like
Speaker 1: I know about Sylvia own at least her, you know,
Speaker 1: coming up at at at Atlantic and starting East Western,
Speaker 1: not maybe was more at Casablanca before then. Well okay,
Speaker 1: well I knew about Neil Bogart, but who was running?
Speaker 1: Who was at Casablanca? Well, I believe Sylvia had started
Speaker 1: I did not know. All right, we can fact check it.
Speaker 1: This is a great, great subject matter. I'm really happy
Speaker 1: you brought this up because you know, um, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of women from that early eighties period who didn't
Speaker 1: necessarily get their shine or necessarily get titles. I was.
Speaker 1: I think I was made president in eighty five. I
Speaker 1: still have the press release. And why do I have it?
Speaker 1: Because I had to write it. The It's like write
Speaker 1: your own Wikipedia entry. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you're president now,
Speaker 1: could you go right this up? Yes? Okay, fine, so
Speaker 1: the but yeah, before in that early eighties period, I
Speaker 1: would say that the people that really come to my
Speaker 1: mind is like women who were doing a lot in
Speaker 1: the early hip hop labels would be Anne Carly at
Speaker 1: Jive Records. You know who I actually knew, and when
Speaker 1: she was working in the New York office of E
Speaker 1: G Records, I used to harass her for Roxy Music
Speaker 1: tour tickets and that um uh. There was Janine Leclair
Speaker 1: who was at UM next Plateau Records that worked with
Speaker 1: Eddiel Laughlin. There was d. D. Joseph who worked with
Speaker 1: at um Prism Records, which became you know, which began Jillan.
Speaker 1: Of course, there was Sylvia um and there were others.
Speaker 1: And I'm really sorry because I should have prepared a
Speaker 1: list for this because it is important and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people who you know, it was a bit
Speaker 1: later in the eighties when there were more women who
Speaker 1: were getting into the business, but there were a lot
Speaker 1: of women who were in the business then and they
Speaker 1: just didn't necessarily get as much recognition. They might have
Speaker 1: started as sceptionists and became press or promo. So there's
Speaker 1: there's this whole wave of women that were part of
Speaker 1: the even like late seventies and early eighties, whose whose
Speaker 1: names just don't tend to come up as as much.
Speaker 1: So much in hip hop has been told and told
Speaker 1: again through books and documentaries and everything, but there's still
Speaker 1: a lot of terrain that hasn't been touched really, So
Speaker 1: what's the difficulty level of you like really as far
Speaker 1: as like pounding the desk and demanding that respect, like
Speaker 1: do you have to be tough as nails? It was was,
Speaker 1: what's the old girl from uh who ran book and
Speaker 1: Winter right? And we have to come do you have
Speaker 1: to run it in a winter style? And you know, no, no,
Speaker 1: well I don't. Yeah, no, I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I know what you're saying. You know a lot I
Speaker 1: get asked a lot over the years people said, well,
Speaker 1: what was it like being a woman in the hip
Speaker 1: hop world? Or what was it like being a white
Speaker 1: woman in the hip hop world? And I'm like, my
Speaker 1: response is usually like, you know what, there were so
Speaker 1: many opportunities for women in the fledgling hip hop industry. Again,
Speaker 1: it was so small back then. Um, if I had
Speaker 1: gone to say, oh, you know Columbia Records or Mercury
Speaker 1: or PolyGram or whatever Warner Brothers, you know, and said hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm looking for a job, I would have
Speaker 1: been lucky to get, you know, be the coffee runner
Speaker 1: for some guy doing mid Atlantic radio promotion. Okay, so
Speaker 1: in hip hop because it was just a small little
Speaker 1: industry and no one was really checking, you know, like
Speaker 1: a lot of women were able to sort of get
Speaker 1: ahead in this business because there wasn't like a precedent.
Speaker 1: It wasn't an old boys network, you know. So it
Speaker 1: was still being It was still being the story was
Speaker 1: being written and the you know, there was a lot
Speaker 1: of of opportunities. Although I will say when I went
Speaker 1: to the first Jack the Rapper Convention, uh, a lot
Speaker 1: of people thought I was hired help for another reason.
Speaker 1: So Rapper Convention, that's another documentary somebody should too, boy
Speaker 1: Tales from the Rap Convention. So okay, um when when okay,
Speaker 1: So in eight six, when Club New Vote starts hitting,
Speaker 1: you know, lean on me and jealousy and all that
Speaker 1: stuff was highly it was unescapable. Like by that point,
Speaker 1: you guys are just you know, a force. Was there
Speaker 1: ever temptation to say leave Tommy boy? And maybe and
Speaker 1: I don't want to discredit hip hops, you know, force
Speaker 1: or whatnot, but in the mind state of seven, did
Speaker 1: you ever have a temptation or did someone from our
Speaker 1: c A or Warner Brothers or quote a legit major
Speaker 1: label try to hold you away and say come work
Speaker 1: for us. Yeah, there was a label A and M.
Speaker 1: Actually and and and M was a real class operation,
Speaker 1: you know, it was. I mean, there was like, uh
Speaker 1: and they even bought me a plane ticket and put
Speaker 1: me in a hotel. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: you know that's pretty great. Um, but I it didn't
Speaker 1: didn't happen. I really sort of sense that I was
Speaker 1: better where it was, and it turned out to be true,
Speaker 1: you know, um, because it was towards you know, it
Speaker 1: was certain made president I guess eighties six. I can't
Speaker 1: remember exactly, but you know, it's towards the end, you know,
Speaker 1: towards the late eighties where I really oversaw A and
Speaker 1: R and the creative direction for the label. I was
Speaker 1: already doing quite a bit already in both of those areas.
Speaker 1: And um, and also you know, in the early days,
Speaker 1: whether it was collecting money from distributors, or putting in
Speaker 1: press or with the pressing plant, or getting the label
Speaker 1: copy typed off, or sitting with Bambada while he wrote
Speaker 1: out of special thanks, or creating a press list and
Speaker 1: writing press releases, talking to you name it. It was
Speaker 1: like you got to do a lot of different things. Uh.
Speaker 1: It was, you know in the late eighties where I
Speaker 1: sort of really I think that was a really golden
Speaker 1: era for Tommy Boy in the late eighties, in the
Speaker 1: early nineties in in you know, for me, at least
Speaker 1: in my life, one of the greatest paradigm shifts that
Speaker 1: really affected eight was such a band of year. But
Speaker 1: you sign a group that literally changes the course of
Speaker 1: my life. And we've we've had various people involved with
Speaker 1: Day Last Soul projects, so we you know, you don't
Speaker 1: have to go through the every day. But what I
Speaker 1: do want to know is who was responsible for the
Speaker 1: genius marketing of day Last Soul because from the from
Speaker 1: the press photos to the fonts to the stickers. You know,
Speaker 1: the only time my life I ever got sent to
Speaker 1: the principal's office was because I put the Lost Soul
Speaker 1: stickers all over my high school. Like, so, who was responsible?
Speaker 1: Like what was the brainchild operation of we can make
Speaker 1: these guys bigger than hip hop? And I read that
Speaker 1: hip hop for hippies? Wasn't that your ship? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was very involved in all of that, but it
Speaker 1: was also um, there's a lot of people at Tommy
Speaker 1: Boy that I would credit for being a huge part
Speaker 1: of this campaign. I think that it was a very
Speaker 1: critical decision to have the Gray organization do the all
Speaker 1: the you know, all of the daisy, all the image
Speaker 1: rate for the for the album cover that was so
Speaker 1: that was I would say such a radical move at
Speaker 1: that point because they basically sort of threw down a
Speaker 1: gauntlet to what the prevailing visual aesthetic was of hip hop.
Speaker 1: And I think it was the type of thing that
Speaker 1: a lot of people were like, what is this? But
Speaker 1: you know, but but but the thing is before the album,
Speaker 1: before the album, and you saw all those visuals, you know,
Speaker 1: plug Tune In was a radical record. And and and
Speaker 1: I still have I still have the demo tape and
Speaker 1: I still have the right up that I did after
Speaker 1: my meeting with Daddy O. And I want to make
Speaker 1: sure to credit Daddy O because it was Daddy O
Speaker 1: from Stetso Sonic who called me and said, Hey, I've
Speaker 1: got these groups I'm shopping. Can we set up a meeting?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, da da, And he sat on
Speaker 1: the phone. There were three groups. Two of them were
Speaker 1: like sort of these more mainstream like Nan and ANGELA
Speaker 1: type of groups or something, and and he mentioned, uh,
Speaker 1: Dla Saul. He said, oh, and there's this group that
Speaker 1: Paul's working with called De la Sault. And I do
Speaker 1: remember thinking that's a really intriguing name. You know what
Speaker 1: is that it didn't sound like a hip hop group,
Speaker 1: and so I met with him and that's in that
Speaker 1: demo tape of plug Tuning and um, the freedom, freedom
Speaker 1: of speak I think was the freedom. Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: was the two tracks on the on the one cassette
Speaker 1: and it was like you immediately knew that it was
Speaker 1: either gonna be big or nothing. And that's where I
Speaker 1: think Tommy Boys legacy largely lies with signings that were
Speaker 1: sort of in the category, um, you're gonna love it
Speaker 1: or you're not gonna hate it, but it wasn't in
Speaker 1: the middle, and um Dla Saul I think personifies that.
Speaker 1: And you know, the the demo of Plug Tuning sounds
Speaker 1: pretty much. I'm pretty sure. I don't think that it
Speaker 1: was even even mixed, you know. I think was an
Speaker 1: eight track that Paul did and I don't think it
Speaker 1: even went beyond that. By the time it was Matter
Speaker 1: and I think it was still like this eight trick
Speaker 1: demo sounding thing. And we had this we did this
Speaker 1: ad campaign where we got all these different people to say,
Speaker 1: you know, you know how it is, you know, like
Speaker 1: when you know Latifa's mom, she was part of it.
Speaker 1: Latifa's mom the Lake mead Owens. We did. We did
Speaker 1: a campaign that I came in for Dla Soul. I
Speaker 1: came in for Patti La Belle. I came out with
Speaker 1: Dala Saul. We had this one with like some goofy
Speaker 1: you know, sort of straight looking white guy like you know,
Speaker 1: I came in for I forget it wasn't steely Dann.
Speaker 1: We hung that up and seem goodies. I worked the
Speaker 1: same Goodies at the time. Oh man, Well then you know,
Speaker 1: so this part of that imaging campaign I think was fantastic.
Speaker 1: We had a great full page head and billboard. I
Speaker 1: said Dala gold when it went gold. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think it lot of it sprung from the group itself,
Speaker 1: because you know, I still have and I shared this
Speaker 1: with Pass actually just last week. Um. He sat down
Speaker 1: in the office and with this he has he has
Speaker 1: a very distinctive style of cursive and he was writing
Speaker 1: down the history of Dala Soul on this notebook paper set,
Speaker 1: describing who each group member was and they were. He
Speaker 1: was writing it in day Las speak. And that was
Speaker 1: another thing too, because like nobody knew what the funk
Speaker 1: they were talking about. They had their own language, like
Speaker 1: what do they tell what the what do you mean
Speaker 1: plug tune? And what's that you know? And what is
Speaker 1: true goy the dove? You know? What is all this stuff? Um?
Speaker 1: But they but they had a different look, they had
Speaker 1: a different sensibility. So there was a lot there to
Speaker 1: already work with and to sort of get inspired to
Speaker 1: do interesting and creative marketing and per motion. You really
Speaker 1: can't do something unless the something that the project and
Speaker 1: the recordings and the artists that you're working with are
Speaker 1: interesting in and of themselves. You can blow it up
Speaker 1: and magnify it. But if they're not, if it's not
Speaker 1: inherently interesting and great, you can't really do anything. So
Speaker 1: so they really they were like, wow, this group is
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. There a lot of people played role. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you know Rod Houston because he's also
Speaker 1: from from from Philadelphia. He's now one of the biggest
Speaker 1: voice A. Yeah, he's huge. He's huge. And Rod um
Speaker 1: I still have the copy that he wrote up because
Speaker 1: we did this contest to name the sample and remember
Speaker 1: that in Billboard. Yeah did you did you enter? I didn't.
Speaker 1: I don't know the Liberati or any Yeah I didn't
Speaker 1: know that. Yeah we got I still have a lot
Speaker 1: of the entries from the contest that I kept, A
Speaker 1: lot of people thought it was Bobby Bloom and the
Speaker 1: only person who got the who the only person who
Speaker 1: got it right was Joel Weber, as I mentioned him
Speaker 1: earlier with the Partners in the New Music Seminar, and
Speaker 1: he's the guy who put out He was an an
Speaker 1: R guy at Fourth and Broadway in Island. He put
Speaker 1: out The Dominatrix Sleeps Tonight. And he was the only
Speaker 1: one who identified the invitations right. It is written on
Speaker 1: the wall is the sample record. So they So there
Speaker 1: was a lot of really great things that sort of
Speaker 1: sprung from the fact that the group themselves were so
Speaker 1: different and so interesting. And I think that that whole
Speaker 1: Daisy age imagery, you know, it was certainly a blessing
Speaker 1: and a curse for the group because then they didn't
Speaker 1: really like being named the hippies of hip hop, and
Speaker 1: you know, pushed back against it, you know. But that
Speaker 1: was that album Three Ft High and Rising, you know.
Speaker 1: And that was actually the first project I assigned to Dante.
Speaker 1: I said that Dante, make sure you get to this
Speaker 1: Dada to get the clearances for so and so and
Speaker 1: so and so. But It was the first project that
Speaker 1: he worked on, which was fantastic. He did an amazing job.
Speaker 1: And Paul, of course, you know, yeah from one to ten.
Speaker 1: How much of a headache was the the Flow and
Speaker 1: Eddie situation because of course, uh, Flow and Eddie of
Speaker 1: the Turtles, um sort of you know, recognizes their sample
Speaker 1: and then you know, we're taught that that was the
Speaker 1: that was the gauntlet moment of rappers clearing samples for
Speaker 1: you know, was it a quick one and done, Oh
Speaker 1: my bad, here's forty thousand bucks, or were they like
Speaker 1: we wanted a billion dollars and you know this is
Speaker 1: that's um. Yeah, that's another great topic because the Dayla
Speaker 1: saw three PETI and Rising really did become the litmus
Speaker 1: test for a lot of sampling issues, and it became
Speaker 1: the posterge aild for everything that could go wrong is
Speaker 1: all here on one album and um and you know,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't just flowing Eddie. You know, I have
Speaker 1: I still have the letter from m c A Publishing
Speaker 1: about Steely Dan by the way, they misspelled Donald Fagin's name,
Speaker 1: But it became sort of a blessing and a curse.
Speaker 1: It was well, I should say, maybe more of a
Speaker 1: Chris because look at everything that the group has had
Speaker 1: to go through all these years. Yeah, here's problematic now
Speaker 1: trying to clear these samples against still yeah. So um.
Speaker 1: But it also became it was certainly a news story.
Speaker 1: I mean, as you Kurt Loder, you know, and there
Speaker 1: was all these like news stories about sampling. It became
Speaker 1: a big thing, you know. And of course you know,
Speaker 1: uh Danny O eustasisnic address this very brilliantly in talking
Speaker 1: all that as one of the best records over and um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was certainly costly. It was a distraction.
Speaker 1: And the thing about it is this, this is my
Speaker 1: takeaway from it, is that at that point in a
Speaker 1: lot of these rock guys, we're really of the mindset
Speaker 1: of like they're stealing my fucking art. And they weren't
Speaker 1: down with the hip hop. They weren't down with the sampling.
Speaker 1: They had very closed minds about this. There was not
Speaker 1: a it had not been established as a path you're like, oh, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll just get the sample clear like today. I mean, now,
Speaker 1: you know, I think a lot of people may be
Speaker 1: avoid sampling to a large degree for all the problems
Speaker 1: and costs associated with it, but um, it's ironic to
Speaker 1: me being as those same guys sampled old blues records
Speaker 1: to create their songs. Oh yeah, who had these guys
Speaker 1: who are older rock guys would big You know, they
Speaker 1: had egos and they just had they were their mindset
Speaker 1: was completely divorced from hip hop being a cool, interesting
Speaker 1: thing and oh wow, they're taking something I made and
Speaker 1: doing something cool and flipping it. A lot of these
Speaker 1: guys did not see that that way at all. Well,
Speaker 1: I know that George Clinton was extremely He had gratitude
Speaker 1: for me, myself and I at least because you know,
Speaker 1: he instantly saw that, okay, this is bringing me back
Speaker 1: clearly to a new audience. So well yeah, well yeah,
Speaker 1: and you also had Westbound Records. M Arman Bladian, thank
Speaker 1: you very much. Us. Yeah, Bladian was was definitely playing ball.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he saw that there was money
Speaker 1: to be made in doing sample clearances. So you know
Speaker 1: what was Digital Underground or Dale or whoever it was,
Speaker 1: He's you know, he owned a lot of this stuff,
Speaker 1: and so he wasn't reluctant in the way that a
Speaker 1: lot of the rock guys were about, you know, violating
Speaker 1: their art. You know, it was just it was a
Speaker 1: different Again. You have commerce on the one side, and
Speaker 1: you've got these guys who were like, man, that's you know,
Speaker 1: don't touch my ship man. You know. So I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask Monica, what is your um involvement if any,
Speaker 1: with the current day last situation we're trying to get
Speaker 1: their catalog onto streaming. Uh, none is my I don't
Speaker 1: have any involvement in that except to be supportive of
Speaker 1: the group and um, you know, uh, you know occasionally
Speaker 1: have back and forth with with pass and UM. You know,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of love for those guys, and
Speaker 1: I hope that you know, they've been through a lot.
Speaker 1: They've been through a lot, so but I don't know,
Speaker 1: I haven't had any sort of dealings with their business.
Speaker 1: I believe our good friend Faith Newman is now at
Speaker 1: the helm of that project and trying to reclear the
Speaker 1: samples and all that stuff. I hope for jay Let's
Speaker 1: sake that comes through. Yeah. Well, I mean they have it,
Speaker 1: but you know, now it's like they got to do
Speaker 1: the work and you know, find somebody to fund. You know,
Speaker 1: they're they're doing it, but it's just a very slow process,
Speaker 1: song by song, and they wanted as they don't, you know,
Speaker 1: thank god, I'm so relieved that they're not doing you know,
Speaker 1: the sitting now where people like redoing their sits on
Speaker 1: the itune and gagging you with like the subpar versions
Speaker 1: of of their song records or whatever. I hate that.
Speaker 1: Um wait, okay wait, I want to give a shout
Speaker 1: out to a Dart Adams who a sure fire way
Speaker 1: to make him angry is to acknowledge that three Feet
Speaker 1: Hoigt and Rising came out March three. Dart Adams, I've
Speaker 1: never met a person more angrier when he's like, it
Speaker 1: wasn't Marks third, it was February seven. Yes, maybe he's
Speaker 1: thinking of the promo promo he oh my god, you
Speaker 1: just you're about to set Dart using opinions of Monica
Speaker 1: Lynch are not like I say, I have a lot
Speaker 1: of Tommy Boy archival materials. I could probably I'm not
Speaker 1: saying you can officially tell us when the release date was,
Speaker 1: because I swear to God, he makes this every March third.
Speaker 1: He gets mad as ship when pass or any remember
Speaker 1: daylas soul gets the date wrong, but he swears the
Speaker 1: God that like March third, He's like, like Wikipedia's wrong,
Speaker 1: everything's wrong, like he knows. Listen, I'll just say this.
Speaker 1: At some point, I'll go through all all if I
Speaker 1: find anything that UM might have led to his uh
Speaker 1: belief scan a photo. The only thing I could possibly
Speaker 1: think is that maybe you know, because again, lead times
Speaker 1: for things like press were significant back then. UM, so
Speaker 1: maybe just maybe there was an advanced copy. But I
Speaker 1: don't want to you know, that's not official. So I
Speaker 1: have one quick question about SESSI Sonic now, the way
Speaker 1: that you guys, the way that you guys pushed for
Speaker 1: some d s to be you know, the do what
Speaker 1: you know hip hop thing in Dayla were the hippies
Speaker 1: of hip hop? What the exception of a brief rite
Speaker 1: up and spin Like, I felt like not enough was
Speaker 1: done to really drive home at least the marketing that
Speaker 1: this is a hip hop band. Yeah, it wasn't an
Speaker 1: easy sell. And I've never seen them. I've never heard
Speaker 1: stets A son live ever, Like even when you tube, no,
Speaker 1: there's no there's no footage of them on YouTube or anything.
Speaker 1: Like I'm taking you guys word for it. That's that's
Speaker 1: a Sonic live and concert is a band, but there's
Speaker 1: there's no I mean you know on and on wax,
Speaker 1: you know, besides Bobby Simmons playing drums on stuff, and
Speaker 1: you know, I know they did live stuff on keys,
Speaker 1: but I've just never seen Sets A Sonic on stage,
Speaker 1: and there's no footage of them, and they're almost like
Speaker 1: the Harlem Cultural Festival, Like I don't believe it. That's
Speaker 1: that's pretty interesting. I it had never really thought about that.
Speaker 1: I didn't go to look, but I mean I've seen
Speaker 1: them perform live and they were really, you know, fantastic.
Speaker 1: I think the man it was very frustrating because they
Speaker 1: you know stets A Sonic as a group, they really
Speaker 1: worked hard, and you know, it was frustra rating. I mean,
Speaker 1: everyone wants to have big hits, and um they had
Speaker 1: some hits, but they weren't on the level that is
Speaker 1: going to push you into a certain territory. You know.
Speaker 1: I think talking all that jazz was like a really
Speaker 1: you know, when you look back at the catalog, I
Speaker 1: think that one to me is like and they had
Speaker 1: you know, Sally was like a record that really well
Speaker 1: in Florida and other markets. Oh and you know Ghos
Speaker 1: stets of Brooklyn go Brooklyn. You can't even so did
Speaker 1: you put somebody's told me recently, said, you put that
Speaker 1: record at the Union Square and that was a signal
Speaker 1: for stick up kids to like get there, get the loop,
Speaker 1: you know, like, oh, that's why I always stood near
Speaker 1: the door at that place. I was like that drum
Speaker 1: roll is traumatizing. Ye, yeah, totally. So they always got
Speaker 1: huge respect and they had great records, but they they
Speaker 1: just you know, and it's it's it's it's a frustration
Speaker 1: even to this day, you know that we weren't able
Speaker 1: to break them out in a Huger way. It happens.
Speaker 1: And I was going to ask you, Monica about Shock
Speaker 1: g Um. I just hate He's someone that we had
Speaker 1: on our list for a long time, but Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we you know, sadly didn't get an interview him before
Speaker 1: he passed. What was he like just as an artist,
Speaker 1: as a producer, What was it like working with him?
Speaker 1: You know, I've actually just had a long conversation with
Speaker 1: his um, his former manager Atron list night. We stayed lunch, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Shock we used to talk on the phone, and
Speaker 1: he Shock was he was incredibly intelligent, so smart, so funny,
Speaker 1: He was very charming. He had an enormous gift as
Speaker 1: a visual artist. You know, I had a lot of dealing.
Speaker 1: You know, he was We had a great relationship. He
Speaker 1: would always be very very specific about artwork. I I
Speaker 1: have some like layouts that he would send of these
Speaker 1: rough layouts. You know, this needs to go exactly here.
Speaker 1: This goes exactly here. Because he did all the artwork
Speaker 1: for all the digital Underground releases and even starting with
Speaker 1: UM the early version of of Underwater Rhymes and Life's
Speaker 1: of Cartoon that the twelve ins that they had before
Speaker 1: mccolla before they came to Tommy Boy, but the uh
Speaker 1: well T and T recordings, the But he was someone
Speaker 1: who was very deep. I spoke with Latifa recently about
Speaker 1: him too well, shortly after he passed. We we spoke
Speaker 1: about it because she talked about how she went on
Speaker 1: tour with him and they would just go to the
Speaker 1: hotel lobby and he would start just noodling on the piano.
Speaker 1: He was a great jazz musician and she loved jazz
Speaker 1: and they had a strong connection there. He was just um.
Speaker 1: He was an artist with a capital A, you know,
Speaker 1: and and he you know, obviously he brought Tupac you know,
Speaker 1: uh it was largely responsible for bringing Tupac into the
Speaker 1: world as an artist and um, uh yeah, really really
Speaker 1: special guy. I've never met any you know, like especially
Speaker 1: these days where everything market beefs seem to be a
Speaker 1: marketing tool. Um, and there were beefs back then. You know,
Speaker 1: you could look at carras one or you know, whatever
Speaker 1: was going on. There's always some sort of beefs going on.
Speaker 1: But no was Shock. He was Everyone loved him. You know.
Speaker 1: I was talking to Pete Nice when he was traveled
Speaker 1: with the Third Base with them, and he had huge
Speaker 1: love for him. I don't know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: I can say about Shock G other than he was
Speaker 1: just We have late night phone calls with him and
Speaker 1: he could just expound. I'm just about he was that guy.
Speaker 1: He was very cosmic. He was very cosmic. So okay,
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, I have to tell you guys that
Speaker 1: we will have a part two with Monica Lynch, the
Speaker 1: legendary Monica Lynch on Quest Love Supreme. Uh, this incredible conversation. Uh.
Speaker 1: We will be back in a later episode to talk
Speaker 1: about basically the nineties with Coolio, with K seven, LFO,
Speaker 1: with the Rizza. You know, there's so much more that
Speaker 1: that that will happen on the next episode of quest
Speaker 1: Love Supreme. Uh, and you promised to come back with
Speaker 1: his Monica. Correct, absolutely, thank you beautiful all right, so
Speaker 1: on Biavo Sugar Steve and I paid Bo and Fantigelo
Speaker 1: and Layah. This is Questo and shout out to cousin
Speaker 1: Jake holding us down on the leads and uh, you
Speaker 1: know we will see you in the next ground. Thank
Speaker 1: you very much. M M. What's Love Supreme is a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.