Speaker 1: Of Course, Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. What is up? Um? This is Quest
Speaker 1: Love Supreme Classic. I gotta say this is probably one
Speaker 1: of my favorite favorite episodes of this entire podcast. And
Speaker 1: I have a lot um But what can you say
Speaker 1: about the genius of Michael McDonald. We were not ready?
Speaker 1: Actually I think actually Fonte steals the steals the show
Speaker 1: in this episode. Uh with this total rendition of the
Speaker 1: out dunbar. What's happening do be Brothers episode? Uh? No
Speaker 1: more spoiler alerts. Let's just get into it. From October seventeen.
Speaker 1: This is the classic Michael McDonald episode Quest Love. Al Right,
Speaker 1: smile Michael McDonald predation, Uh, se Prima Road called Sema
Speaker 1: sub Prima Road called s Prima sub Prima Road Call
Speaker 1: the grand I can do it one tape Srema Road
Speaker 1: This Quest Love Yeah a k A best Love. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm so chill Love Yeah because I Frema Road Call,
Speaker 1: Frema Road Call. My name is Fonte. Yeah. You don't
Speaker 1: have to run for because this show is getting bootleg
Speaker 1: by al bun Ball Roll Prima Prima Road call Michael McDonald.
Speaker 1: We're here to meet him. Yeah, mine name Miss Sugar,
Speaker 1: John's Free Freedom, Roll Clear, Black Night, Yeah, Clear, White Moon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Boss Bill was on the streets. Oh wait, that was
Speaker 1: warring you. Sorry, Roll and I'm quite smitten. Yeah, Michael McDonald, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I keep forgetting roll roll. This is mcdee. Yeah, it's said,
Speaker 1: it's me. Yeah. Does anybody have the time. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: all I gotta say. Rogue, fremo, rogue, some freema. Wait, sorry, Fante,
Speaker 1: I knew you gonna what's happening? Reference? Man, is what
Speaker 1: that was? I was like dun ball, dune ball. Yeo, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be I have to admit that I spent
Speaker 1: three hours in bed trying to think of the perfect
Speaker 1: one to reference, like for real, from like three in
Speaker 1: the morning to maybe like I dozed off at six,
Speaker 1: I had nothing, man, man, And I was like, I know,
Speaker 1: Fante is gonna have Yeah, I was gonna. I was
Speaker 1: gonna put a tape recorder in my hat, a laborage
Speaker 1: scheme where I was gonna you know, I didn't even
Speaker 1: remember that one. It ruled our lives, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is probably the most beloved figure in
Speaker 1: the recording industry. Um. I'll probably go as far as
Speaker 1: to say that he's probably in everyone's top three greatest
Speaker 1: blue eyed sold singers um of all time. I personally
Speaker 1: believe that he possesses possibly the most influential and most
Speaker 1: imitated vibrato tenor um. And you know, from his years
Speaker 1: as an honorary Steely Dannian and a member of the
Speaker 1: Doobie Brothers. Uh not to mention his solo work. Um,
Speaker 1: Michael McDonald is a pop culture god amongst mortal men um,
Speaker 1: you know, and his brand stretches way beyond just singing
Speaker 1: and songwriting. I mean, he's he's damn near a lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to quest of Supreme the
Speaker 1: god himself, Michael McDonald. Oh my god? Wait, thank you? Uh?
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you thrown off by the fan worship
Speaker 1: thrown at you today? Like? Because I feel like anytime,
Speaker 1: especially when I see you, I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: like you feel like it's a genuine appreciation for your
Speaker 1: work or is it like is this the nariety ironic
Speaker 1: embracing of you know, my work? Like, are you genuine
Speaker 1: or is it just coming from the ironic comedy level,
Speaker 1: like how do you how do you feel when people,
Speaker 1: especially millennials are coming to you and well, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's all flattering, really. I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: always told my son, when you know, when your music
Speaker 1: is no more no longer relevant, your pathetic comic value
Speaker 1: might be. So you know you have to go with it,
Speaker 1: you know, just you gotta take what you can get
Speaker 1: when you can get it. But I uh, I'm enjoying
Speaker 1: myself these days. You know. It's, uh, we've been out
Speaker 1: there long enough doing this that uh, no one's more
Speaker 1: amazed than me that we're still doing it at our
Speaker 1: age and know and uh, but it's still fun, you know.
Speaker 1: And I still love playing live and I love playing
Speaker 1: with you guys, you know, looking forward to it. We
Speaker 1: enjoying it too, Yeah, because I didn't know. I know
Speaker 1: that one of the times that you visited the show,
Speaker 1: I know that you know, where you came with Donald
Speaker 1: Fagan and you know, he was sort of like are
Speaker 1: they clowning us or are they actually respecting us? And
Speaker 1: you know, I was we were so thrown off because
Speaker 1: it's like, yo, he doesn't know that we like this
Speaker 1: is what we worship, you know what I mean? And
Speaker 1: it's not because I know about you know, yacht rock
Speaker 1: culture and all those comedy bits on online and it
Speaker 1: could seem like it's from a jokey angle. But I
Speaker 1: always wondered, like, what was your personal perspective and as
Speaker 1: far as like do you think it's this novelty here
Speaker 1: or any of those things? Though you know, I always
Speaker 1: enjoyed it and I had fun that that night, but
Speaker 1: I did. Uh, I don't think the other guys enjoyed
Speaker 1: it as much as I. So. Um So you started
Speaker 1: out in St. Louis, right, You didn't grew up in Ferguson? Yeah, crazy?
Speaker 1: Can you talked about that? Because literally my mother's going
Speaker 1: to raise in St. Louis And I called her this
Speaker 1: morning cause I was like, Mommy, did you know Michael
Speaker 1: McDonald's St. Louis And she was like no. I said, well,
Speaker 1: this is interesting because you'all around the same age growing
Speaker 1: up in St. Louis very polarized. Ferguson maybe not be
Speaker 1: the Ferguson that we know today. That's right, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's you know where the conversation is at
Speaker 1: this point today is exactly where it needs to be,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I think in the sixties we
Speaker 1: all really believe that we were going to be the
Speaker 1: generation that didn't leave the burden on our next generation
Speaker 1: of racism in America, you know. Uh, And unfortunately that
Speaker 1: hasn't proven to be true. You know, as much as
Speaker 1: we'd all like to think, I think we made great
Speaker 1: strides because I remember Ferguson in the late fifties, right,
Speaker 1: talk about it because people is probably a totally different
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, I mean, you know it was
Speaker 1: apartheid is really what it was, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: nothing less. You know, when you if you were black
Speaker 1: in America in a small town like Ferguson, and if
Speaker 1: you know, it was you were not allowed to live
Speaker 1: in the mainstream. You were ostracized from mainstream society, plain
Speaker 1: and simple. You couldn't walk into the dairy queen without
Speaker 1: causing a stir, you know what I mean. It was.
Speaker 1: And I remember as a kid, you know, that wasn't
Speaker 1: lost on me. I remember, you know, like laying awake
Speaker 1: at night, my two great fears, uh were they were
Speaker 1: going to drop the bomb and uh, And I remember thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, I could have been born black. It's fifty,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and I just didn't understand why, uh
Speaker 1: the things were the way they were, you know. But uh,
Speaker 1: you know, even you know the fact that the reason
Speaker 1: I mentioned is like that it wouldn't even be lost
Speaker 1: on a four year old kid or a five year
Speaker 1: old kid. You know, at the earliest stages, we look
Speaker 1: at our society around us in surprising ways, and we go,
Speaker 1: what does this all mean? Why? Why is this this way? Way?
Speaker 1: Is it that way? And why don't adults do something
Speaker 1: about it? Why don't adults make this right? You know? Uh?
Speaker 1: And so we start right there understanding that adults don't
Speaker 1: make things right, you know, that adults don't do the
Speaker 1: right thing, you know. And uh, and so that we
Speaker 1: spend the rest of our lives just kind of you know,
Speaker 1: compromising with that, you know, and you know, understanding it's
Speaker 1: not a perfect world. But you know, it's funny because
Speaker 1: you know, for all the press that Ferguson has gotten,
Speaker 1: it's a great town. It's it's a better town than
Speaker 1: it was when I was a kid. I mean in
Speaker 1: so many ways. I mean I go back there a bit,
Speaker 1: quite a bit, you know, I don't live there anymore,
Speaker 1: but uh, when I lived there. It was post war,
Speaker 1: and you know, the downturn in the American economy was
Speaker 1: something people don't remember. But after the war, it was
Speaker 1: like a lot of small towns like that kind of
Speaker 1: went into depression. You know, a lot of the mom
Speaker 1: and pop stores closed up, and Ferguson, you know, had
Speaker 1: had suffered that, like a lot of places until the
Speaker 1: suburbs took over, you know, and shopping malls and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and and that pretty much killed, you know,
Speaker 1: communities like Ferguson. So I grew up in that period
Speaker 1: where you know, you walk down main Street versus and
Speaker 1: it wasn't much going on. You know, Today it's it's
Speaker 1: a it's you know, a lot more of an economic upturn,
Speaker 1: you know. And so you know, I think what we
Speaker 1: gotta really do as a society is learned to have
Speaker 1: the conversation. You know. It's like what's going on right
Speaker 1: now with the NFL, and you know, we we gotta
Speaker 1: uh we you know, Unfortunately we have a guy at
Speaker 1: the Helm who wants to stir it up and and
Speaker 1: be divisive. You know, that's a shame because this is
Speaker 1: the perfect opportunity for the conversation. We all need to
Speaker 1: be having. You know, those guys are embracing peaceful protests.
Speaker 1: It may not be the venue you'd like to see
Speaker 1: it in if you're a football fan or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever your problem with it is. And the whole idea
Speaker 1: that it's all about the flag and the flag is
Speaker 1: all about the military is is not true. The flag
Speaker 1: is about freedom, and that's what the conversation is about.
Speaker 1: And these guys aren't risking they're not destroying my property,
Speaker 1: they're not hurting anyone. The only thing they're putting at
Speaker 1: risk is their own livelihood. And so I applaud their courage,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think it's a conversation that we've
Speaker 1: got to have, you know, and it's going to be painful,
Speaker 1: because growth is painful, you know. But you know, that's
Speaker 1: that's the great America that that I think most of
Speaker 1: us are talking about. You know, America is getting great,
Speaker 1: you know, and it it can't continue to get great.
Speaker 1: But this isn't the time to fall asleep at the
Speaker 1: wheel or to turn back the hands of time to
Speaker 1: something that was not great. But it's fascinating that you
Speaker 1: grew up in such a divisive situation that you have
Speaker 1: that you like, how did you get introduced to soul
Speaker 1: in that way? Is it just that natural to you, because,
Speaker 1: like you said, Ferguson, black people and white people kind
Speaker 1: of separate in that way, like, well, you know, it
Speaker 1: was it was the it was society in the fifties,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, uh, you know, so many of
Speaker 1: my friends are younger than me, and they don't really remember,
Speaker 1: you know, they don't really know and in black or
Speaker 1: white or you know, African American or Caucasian or whatever,
Speaker 1: they you know, might be very few of them remember
Speaker 1: America the way it was, and uh, it wasn't great
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, you know, so it wasn't
Speaker 1: a foot loose narrative where rock and roll came in
Speaker 1: and saved the town and that sort of thing. You know.
Speaker 1: It's funny. The British invasion probably did more to bring
Speaker 1: uh awareness to UH mainstream radio listeners, white radio listens
Speaker 1: awareness of uh real American music then American radio did
Speaker 1: at the time. A lot of the artists, for instance,
Speaker 1: the Womac Brothers there they had a top ten hit
Speaker 1: on what would have been considered black radio at the time,
Speaker 1: which most white people didn't listen to, didn't know about,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was a song called It's All
Speaker 1: Over Now. When the Rolling Stones did it, it was
Speaker 1: a huge hit, you know, and Bobby Womack made the comment,
Speaker 1: we were heartbroken until the check started coming in. But
Speaker 1: but the still that's that speaks like you know, even Motown,
Speaker 1: as popular as it was in mainstream radio. Uh, the
Speaker 1: British acts, the Beatles probably had some of the biggest
Speaker 1: hits of Smokey Robinson songs, you know, because they reached
Speaker 1: a whole of their audience and that that was segregated
Speaker 1: in the United States at that time, you know. Uh
Speaker 1: so you know, uh so, even the jazz scene wasn't
Speaker 1: thriving at all, or it was it was, but that
Speaker 1: that was I think a very um you know, that
Speaker 1: was a kind of a I don't want to say,
Speaker 1: elite sector of intellectual music listeners society. It wasn't mainstream,
Speaker 1: you know, jazz was not mainstream. Uh, it kind of
Speaker 1: was in the fifties. It was probably rock and roll
Speaker 1: kind of took over where jazz left off in the
Speaker 1: fifties because jazz was that kind of bold, uh and
Speaker 1: a lot of people growing up in the fifties were
Speaker 1: drawn to that you know, to the the artistic boldness
Speaker 1: of jazz and you know, and everything that was. But
Speaker 1: then in rock and roll kind of took over the mainstream,
Speaker 1: you know. But you know, as a kid, I remember
Speaker 1: the first time I heard records like Edwin starrs Stopper
Speaker 1: on site. That was a record that sticks out in
Speaker 1: my mind. Um it was my sister and her friends
Speaker 1: were playing it and never blasting it over a car speaker.
Speaker 1: And and I up to that point was pretty much
Speaker 1: aware of what I knew at my age group, which
Speaker 1: was all these English bands coming out, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: but when I heard that record, it was it was
Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, there was this sophistication to
Speaker 1: the rhythm track that this you know, the guitar was
Speaker 1: kind of tucked in and syncopated and and you know,
Speaker 1: uh more interesting in a lot of ways. It wasn't
Speaker 1: so spoke broad strokes. Yeah, it was. It had a
Speaker 1: certain kind of sophistication that I really appealed to me.
Speaker 1: And and it was from that point on that I
Speaker 1: really started listening to artists that I had prior to
Speaker 1: that not really been that aware of. You know, do
Speaker 1: you remember the first record that you ever purchased. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is the Everly Brothers. Wake Up a little Susie.
Speaker 1: Me and a friend of mine pulled our money and
Speaker 1: went and bought the forty five And how once back
Speaker 1: when you were growing up, the same as they are
Speaker 1: now a buck. We're the one industry where the price
Speaker 1: has not gone up. What was on the sorry quest?
Speaker 1: What was on the B side of that? On the
Speaker 1: B side, I don't remember. Uh, it was that record
Speaker 1: in the Chipmunk's Christmas Song. It was my two big
Speaker 1: first records. Sorry, no, no, Well I like B sides. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I know I was waiting for you jazz question. No,
Speaker 1: I mean that's I never thought of it that way,
Speaker 1: that that rock and rolls took over where jazz left
Speaker 1: off in that sense. Yeah, I think in a cultural sense,
Speaker 1: jazz was that daring uh music, um taboo, A little
Speaker 1: genre that that you know, if you were really cool,
Speaker 1: you listen to jazz. You know. Uh, there a hip
Speaker 1: factor in St. Louis, a yeah, counterculture if you will. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely took place around Gaslight Square in St. Louis,
Speaker 1: downtown St. Louis area South, you know, kind of somewhere
Speaker 1: between South. I'm not really sure where Gaslight Square was,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, but I remember that's where
Speaker 1: my parents went to hear music, you know, and it
Speaker 1: was like there were jazz clubs and uh and then
Speaker 1: the tornado hit it. One of the big tornadoes came
Speaker 1: through and leveled the place and it never kind of
Speaker 1: recovered from that. You know. It was would be like, uh,
Speaker 1: where the village and part of it? You? Uh? Concert?
Speaker 1: Like were you attending concerts at all? Or like, what
Speaker 1: was the first show you remember seeing? Ah, let me
Speaker 1: think about that. I remember going to see, uh this
Speaker 1: thing called the Al Sack Show. It was the big
Speaker 1: am radio station in St. Louis, cakes Okay, and they
Speaker 1: brought the show to town. It was like a charity
Speaker 1: event and Wilson Pickett was on was one of the headliners.
Speaker 1: So up there was the Memphis Rhythm Section, Memphis Horns,
Speaker 1: you know, the whole the whole gang. And it was
Speaker 1: like just this powerful experience to hear those guys and
Speaker 1: uh keel Auditorium, you know, and that was one of
Speaker 1: the shows. Another great show I saw there was the
Speaker 1: b GS. Once I was driving around and I saw
Speaker 1: their name on the marquee and a friend of mine
Speaker 1: and I went in the Australian version or yeah, the
Speaker 1: the Beatles, and this is long before their big resurgence,
Speaker 1: you know. This was like you know sixties, you know.
Speaker 1: And uh we went in there and it was like
Speaker 1: the first two rows had people and nothing else. It
Speaker 1: was like there was no one knew that they and
Speaker 1: these guys came out and did this show as if
Speaker 1: the place was filled to the brim. You know, they
Speaker 1: just didn't undaunted. They just put on this great show.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, man, that's that's pretty cool. You
Speaker 1: know I should somehow I remembered that, you know, and wait,
Speaker 1: you casually walked by, I saw the beg's on the marquet,
Speaker 1: was like Ulsten was. Yeah, how much where shows back
Speaker 1: then that you could just not much? It's probably about
Speaker 1: five bucks apiece. We went in and saw these guys play.
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy. And at that point, had you
Speaker 1: start singing yet to yourself and the show? Did you
Speaker 1: start singing yet? Yeah? I was in I was in
Speaker 1: a band. In fact, me and this this friend of
Speaker 1: mine were in a band together and we um we
Speaker 1: were just driving around St. Louis, you know, doing pretty
Speaker 1: much nothing as usual, you know, and I saw that
Speaker 1: on the marquee and hadn't heard a thing about it.
Speaker 1: So we just you know, walked up and tickets were
Speaker 1: place was not even close to being sold out, but
Speaker 1: they did a great show. How did you start playing
Speaker 1: when you self taught or did you take lessons? I'm
Speaker 1: just it's just self taught, you know. I my I
Speaker 1: started off playing tenor banjo for my dad, who was saying, Uh,
Speaker 1: he was a singer and sang in a lot of bars,
Speaker 1: not so much professionally, but he's sang, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: And people kind of knew him as a singer. You know,
Speaker 1: so when he walked in a saloon, everybody wanted him
Speaker 1: to sing. And so I followed him around a lot
Speaker 1: as a kid, and uh, I would play tenor banjo
Speaker 1: for him, and ah, he would do you know, old
Speaker 1: like ragtime songs and Irish songs and you know, Danny
Speaker 1: Boy was his big number. And um, so I got
Speaker 1: the chance that the significance of that was I got
Speaker 1: to hear a lot of great piano players, got the
Speaker 1: guys that he would go to visit who played piano
Speaker 1: in these bars, and uh, and it was amazing how
Speaker 1: talented they were. Looking back especially, I realized that these
Speaker 1: these these were great musicians, you know, but here they
Speaker 1: were in the corner bar and St. Louis playing Bill Bailey,
Speaker 1: Won't You Please Come Home? For all these drunks, And
Speaker 1: they hated every minute of it. You know, anyone else
Speaker 1: in your family singers? Yeah? My sisters both sing, you know,
Speaker 1: and they both got got nice for background on keep
Speaker 1: forgetting that Maureen, that's more. And she still sings with me.
Speaker 1: My sister Kathy still sings with me. And you know,
Speaker 1: once in a while, we'll do these shows around town,
Speaker 1: just like charity events and stuff, and the family will
Speaker 1: come out and sing for me. Would your dad say
Speaker 1: when he realized you had the voice? Because he knew
Speaker 1: the band Joe, he said, to get your high school
Speaker 1: equivalent to you. He wasn't a big fan of the music,
Speaker 1: but I mean it wasn't that he wasn't. But I
Speaker 1: don't think he saw it as a viable living, you know,
Speaker 1: And I don't think any parents until it becomes right,
Speaker 1: that's right. No one was proud of that. I was
Speaker 1: able to make a living at it, you know. But
Speaker 1: in the hindsight, did you always have the voice that
Speaker 1: we know is Michael McDonald. Probably not. There's someone's technique
Speaker 1: in it, like who's teaching your who are you emulating?
Speaker 1: And you know where did you learn control in your
Speaker 1: vibrato and your tone? You know? A lot of my
Speaker 1: singing voice came from uh singing in bars, you know,
Speaker 1: because I had to preserve it. I had to say
Speaker 1: smoke or beer and tobacco. We had something to do.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a good thing for a while,
Speaker 1: until it was a great thing for us. But no,
Speaker 1: I early on I realized that if I wanted to
Speaker 1: sing like James Brown and uh ah some of the
Speaker 1: uh you know, the shouters, you know, the great uh
Speaker 1: blues singers, I wouldn't have a voice very long if
Speaker 1: I did, you know, you know, like uh uh Mitch
Speaker 1: Rider and all those singers that were famous for their screams,
Speaker 1: you know. But so I I developed a style that
Speaker 1: where I could kind of sound like I was putting
Speaker 1: more into it than I really had too. So I
Speaker 1: could sing five sets at night, you know, and five
Speaker 1: sets at night. Yeah, we did. We did. Like I
Speaker 1: did a lot of that in l A. We'd play
Speaker 1: like three or four or five sets at night and
Speaker 1: sometimes go after hours you know, and something go across
Speaker 1: town and play after hours clubs. You know. So what
Speaker 1: brought you to l A as far as a record deal?
Speaker 1: Originally I came out to do a record for our
Speaker 1: Cia Records. Your own, that was my own. I'm only
Speaker 1: hesitant to mention it for fear that someone who might
Speaker 1: actually find it and listen to it. You got discovered
Speaker 1: in St. Louis. Uh. Yeah, I was actually in Champagne, Illinois.
Speaker 1: A plane in a bar and a producer, a guy
Speaker 1: who I note to this day, who was from, believe
Speaker 1: it or not, Champagne, Illinois, grew up on a farm there,
Speaker 1: went to l A and he with the New Christie Minstrels.
Speaker 1: Remember the New Christry Minstrels. It was like a folk
Speaker 1: singing group, you know, and um he uh. If you
Speaker 1: watched that movie Mighty Wind, that's pretty much so. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he was in one of those groups, and he met
Speaker 1: his wife. But anyway, he wound up producing records for
Speaker 1: our Cia Records. He produced the first Jefferson air playing album.
Speaker 1: Harry Nielsen Jose Feliciano, you know, had quite a run,
Speaker 1: you know, producing some great records, and he heard me
Speaker 1: in a bar signed me up and I came out
Speaker 1: to California. And the good part of that story is
Speaker 1: he he kept me alive by using me on sessions
Speaker 1: that I had no business being on. You know, I
Speaker 1: was playing with these guys who were really a list guys,
Speaker 1: and they had to put up with me because this
Speaker 1: guy wanted me to get paid. You know, I was
Speaker 1: playing piano. I had even less business being ones on
Speaker 1: which on which sessions? Oh, you know, things like, um,
Speaker 1: everything from David Cassidy to Jack Jones too, huh, John Harton,
Speaker 1: John Hartford, you know, just things that he was producing
Speaker 1: at the time, some Jose Feliciano tracks maybe, but it
Speaker 1: gave me experience I would have never gotten otherwise, you know.
Speaker 1: And uh, really where I learned, you know, how to
Speaker 1: play with other musicians on a whole other level, you know,
Speaker 1: a more much more professional capacity. And you're still just
Speaker 1: self taught at this point. You're just kind of figuring out,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, I was coming from bar bands in St.
Speaker 1: Louis was like the first one that the bridge gets
Speaker 1: the solo. You know, it was like we were just
Speaker 1: rushing ahead, you know, well, uh, you know, as we
Speaker 1: are very curious on quest of Supreme. We would like
Speaker 1: to play a bit of God News by young Mike McDonald.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be paid for change and s you
Speaker 1: should go away, baby, Paul, I have we'll do to that.
Speaker 1: I've said, you know, the stage. It's like Tom Jones,
Speaker 1: I think, how old are you and all that recorded?
Speaker 1: Uh eighteen and you sounded like forty? He say, Thomas
Speaker 1: is I feel it? I feel it. It's nothing embarrassing
Speaker 1: about that man, nothing better about that at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is great, thank you so um uh while within
Speaker 1: an in the l a uh are you interacting at all?
Speaker 1: Or how are you running into what will eventually be
Speaker 1: your peers of the mid seventies to mid eighties, like
Speaker 1: the Picardo's, the Pages, the Yeah you know that was.
Speaker 1: I probably met those guys more on the club level
Speaker 1: doing casuals. One of the first gigs I ever remember
Speaker 1: meeting Jeff macarl I'm not even sure I met him.
Speaker 1: That night we were playing at a club in the
Speaker 1: valley San Ferinanto Valley and his band came in and
Speaker 1: played and they were all under age. They were all
Speaker 1: like junior high school age and uh trying to remember
Speaker 1: the name of the band. They were named after their
Speaker 1: street they lived on and it was all Grant High
Speaker 1: school kids freshman year and Jeff was this phenomenal drummer
Speaker 1: and they were kind of a fusion band, you know.
Speaker 1: So uh it was interesting because, uh, every ending Jeff
Speaker 1: Jeff kind of did a simple solo for it. It
Speaker 1: ended each song with this you know kind of you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, but he was obviously really great, and uh
Speaker 1: the next time I heard about him doing sessions after that,
Speaker 1: and uh, the next time I met him, we played
Speaker 1: a casual for a TV show that was a rap
Speaker 1: party for Universal Studios, and uh, make a long story short,
Speaker 1: my girlfriend was the contractor on this show. She was
Speaker 1: a bass player at the time, Brandy, and uh, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, no, no, no, no, But she she left
Speaker 1: to go do a gig in Vegas and she said,
Speaker 1: make sure you do this gig and we could get
Speaker 1: the band together. And when you do this gig format,
Speaker 1: I said, sure, She goes, You're not going to leave
Speaker 1: it to the last minute and you know, and and
Speaker 1: have it be a complete, uh you know, disaster. I said, no,
Speaker 1: I promise I won't. Of course I did, and you
Speaker 1: did right. So at the last minute, I called the
Speaker 1: sex player friend of mine, and he goes, I know
Speaker 1: these cats, they do sessions, he goes, but they love
Speaker 1: to play and they'll probably do it for free. I said,
Speaker 1: even better, you know, but I just think I need somebody.
Speaker 1: So we all showed up. None of us knew each other,
Speaker 1: We didn't rehearse. We just played every top forty song
Speaker 1: we could think of, and then for the next three
Speaker 1: sets we played the same ones over again, but they
Speaker 1: were all pretty drunk by then. Nobody cared, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh we Uh it was Jeff macarl, David Page,
Speaker 1: Mike Macarl on base. Yeah, and uh. The next time
Speaker 1: I talked to Jeff was like a year later. He
Speaker 1: called me through the same girl, Brandy, and he said,
Speaker 1: I'm looking for Mike. We're auditioning for Steely Dan, and
Speaker 1: I thought maybe he could play some keyboard and and sing,
Speaker 1: you know, do some of the backgrounds because they're looking
Speaker 1: to kind of keep the band small, you know. And
Speaker 1: so as soon as I heard, I threw my piano
Speaker 1: in my Pinto and I drove down to Modern music
Speaker 1: and uh audition and you know, miraculously got the job,
Speaker 1: you know, and I wound up touring the world those
Speaker 1: guys before they broke up? Were you playing a Walitzer
Speaker 1: or a little black worlds? Yeah? Okay for those that
Speaker 1: don't know, And I've always just heard the legend of
Speaker 1: Steely Dan just being a studio group, Like what was
Speaker 1: the initial meet and potatoes of the band? You you
Speaker 1: came in during what Katie Lied or right? They they
Speaker 1: hadn't started Katie Lie yet. They were partzel Logic was
Speaker 1: a record they were touring on. They just had just
Speaker 1: finished Partzel Logic. So was there ever besides Fagan and Becker,
Speaker 1: were there core members that were Yeah? Yeah, Well the
Speaker 1: band at that time existed as Steely Dan, Donald Walter
Speaker 1: h Jimmy Hotter on drums, and Jeff macarl on drums,
Speaker 1: uh and U Walter played bass, Denny Diaz played guitar,
Speaker 1: and Jeff Baxter played guitar, and Uh myself playing with
Speaker 1: some keyboards and singing backgrounds of Royce Jones played percussion
Speaker 1: and sang backgrounds. And Royce was another l a guy
Speaker 1: that played clubs and you know, uh a great singer
Speaker 1: and a great percussionist. But so we were that was
Speaker 1: pretty much the core group, the whole group right there.
Speaker 1: And how is it moving into their their band because
Speaker 1: as a self top player, I mean the stuff they're
Speaker 1: playing is pretty yeah, like how did you figure out
Speaker 1: that stuff out? Um? Well, Donald showed me, you know
Speaker 1: what do you wanted me to play? Pretty much? You
Speaker 1: know and and uh, which was basically backing him up
Speaker 1: on piano and with with electric piano and uh, and
Speaker 1: it was it was great. It was a real education
Speaker 1: for me, especially in songwriting, because all of a sudden
Speaker 1: I saw how he voiced these chords that uh and
Speaker 1: there was a simplicity to it that was ingenious, you
Speaker 1: know that I kind of learned that a lot of times. Uh,
Speaker 1: the the harmonic vastness of their songs really came from
Speaker 1: the fact that the chords were very simple kind of triads,
Speaker 1: you know, with not in unusual forms you know like
Speaker 1: one yeah, yeah, like words and um. A lot of
Speaker 1: times that's how the chords moved, you know, in that
Speaker 1: kind of symmetric pattern. But it it really if it
Speaker 1: gave it just opened my whole head up to composition,
Speaker 1: you know, pop songwriting and know for sure, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: how can you explain the phenomenon and steely dam because
Speaker 1: it's for me, maybe because I grew up ten years later.
Speaker 1: You know, I see probably the figure that I see
Speaker 1: that came close to experimenting as far as he could
Speaker 1: and staying pop was printed. So what what were the
Speaker 1: were Fagan and Becker's work habits as far as like
Speaker 1: was their intention to make digestible pop music multi layered
Speaker 1: with this this intricate jazz approach. I mean, and I
Speaker 1: know at least watching the documentary for like Asia, and
Speaker 1: how how anal retentive they were, like, how as taste like?
Speaker 1: How what were their work habits like in the studio
Speaker 1: it was, you know, nothing stood in the way between
Speaker 1: them and the end game, you know what they really
Speaker 1: were trying to go for. What I find most interesting
Speaker 1: about Stevie Dan I remember we toured with him not
Speaker 1: that long ago, maybe but four or five years ago,
Speaker 1: and of course we I would stick around every night
Speaker 1: and listen to their set and they every night I
Speaker 1: would it would hit me, you know, these guys were
Speaker 1: the darlings of Top forty radio for like ten fifteen years,
Speaker 1: and there's music is so weird, you know, it's so
Speaker 1: strange and it's so eclectic. How did they manage that?
Speaker 1: You know? But you know, I know in there as
Speaker 1: far as their work habits, like you mentioned, they were
Speaker 1: very insulated. Donald and Walter, they they seemed to be
Speaker 1: to me that they would kind of go off somewhere
Speaker 1: unknown to anyone else and write these songs and uh
Speaker 1: and I know that just from my own experience of
Speaker 1: being around them in rehearsal and stuff, that some of
Speaker 1: the influences they had were surprising to me. Like Duke
Speaker 1: Ellington is it was a huge influence on on those guys,
Speaker 1: you know, on the on the makeup of their band
Speaker 1: and the the you know, the chord progressions they wrote,
Speaker 1: the way they you know, the harmonic sense that they
Speaker 1: had with their songs was uh, they really that sophistication
Speaker 1: that Steely Dan has kind of probably the most direct
Speaker 1: influence I can think of, it would be Duke Ellington
Speaker 1: and our just like that, you know that we're uh
Speaker 1: that they somehow kind of twisted into this pop uh
Speaker 1: format gen right, you know, all right, So I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna jump to it. Um pig how this background how
Speaker 1: um I feel like PEG is probably on record is
Speaker 1: one of the most intricate crafted background. Oh you're trying
Speaker 1: to imagine. I was like, why are you listening? To
Speaker 1: Michael mcdad. He's like, no, no, no, no, that's not
Speaker 1: right that this is me, this is my mad like
Speaker 1: has a dedication to you, Like, how do you think
Speaker 1: it sounds better than what the last time we sang? Well,
Speaker 1: that's what I was gonna ask one. How do you
Speaker 1: how do you how do you guys recreate this stuff
Speaker 1: on stage? Well, it was just a group of us,
Speaker 1: you know, singers and and are they you know, we
Speaker 1: tend to one stage as well. Donald kind of gives
Speaker 1: us the parts, you know, and like when I sang
Speaker 1: it in the studio, my biggest problem was I couldn't
Speaker 1: sing the harmonies listening to the last harmony I did
Speaker 1: because it was too close and you do it separate? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, if if I, if I were a little
Speaker 1: more uh schooled as a singer, I might have been
Speaker 1: able to pull that off. But so I would just
Speaker 1: have them turn off the last part I sang and
Speaker 1: then give me the new part. I'd sing it, and
Speaker 1: then the first time I heard it altogether was after
Speaker 1: I finished it, you know. But but on live on stage,
Speaker 1: we would sing the parts, uh and we would you know,
Speaker 1: you'd get your part in your head and then you
Speaker 1: only have to be responsible for that one part. And
Speaker 1: with Donald, I always wanted to make sure I sang
Speaker 1: it in tune and on time, So I sang most
Speaker 1: of those parts while staring at him across stage to see.
Speaker 1: But are there five other people also matching the news? Well?
Speaker 1: The girls and uh yeah, it was me and the
Speaker 1: girls pretty much, you know, uh, and and Donald. You know,
Speaker 1: it was the touring unit, not it wasn't the same
Speaker 1: as the studio unit. Correct, No, No, it was the
Speaker 1: Stulye Dan as it has been in recent past, with
Speaker 1: Katherine Russell and Caroline Lionheart singing and two great great singers.
Speaker 1: You know. Wow, Um, yeah, kudos to that. I still
Speaker 1: don't think you get enough credit for respect for that.
Speaker 1: I mean, it just sounds so effortless that you take
Speaker 1: it for granted. It Well, those guys, that was all
Speaker 1: there was always there, you know. I came in late
Speaker 1: on these recordings that the Typically the tracks were done
Speaker 1: and how physical how long did it take for you
Speaker 1: to do? Uh? You know? Typically, I don't think I
Speaker 1: ever did more than two tracks in a in a
Speaker 1: given session usually, you know, and more probably more often one.
Speaker 1: You know that they were concentrating on for that day.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, so you're saying you just literally breathe
Speaker 1: through Peg and under Half. I wouldn't say I breathed
Speaker 1: through anything with those guys. You know, it was uh,
Speaker 1: you know I And there were some tracks I actually
Speaker 1: didn't I wasn't able to do, you know, like, uh,
Speaker 1: I remember Dr Who. They had sent me that track
Speaker 1: in advance and said, you know, we would like to
Speaker 1: hear your voice on this, and I love the song
Speaker 1: and I wanted more than anything in the world to
Speaker 1: be able to do that track because I just particularly
Speaker 1: love that tune, you know, And I couldn't. I couldn't
Speaker 1: do it. You had to sing it all in one breath.
Speaker 1: And I smoked way too much at that point in
Speaker 1: my life. So I was really disappointed. And of course
Speaker 1: they never let me live it down. But you know,
Speaker 1: it was all in good fun. But you know, there
Speaker 1: were times when I really was not the guy. So
Speaker 1: how did they Yeah, I know they're they're infamous for replacing, Like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna nail get someone else? How how do
Speaker 1: they break that news to you? Hurt? Usually? No, it
Speaker 1: was you have to take those guys. They always had
Speaker 1: a great sense of humor, those guys, and you know
Speaker 1: they would be the first two that got fired. You know,
Speaker 1: they would fire themselves before they fired everyone else, right,
Speaker 1: So I mean a lot of the tracking, Donald would
Speaker 1: have Michael Marty and play piano or uh and U
Speaker 1: or Victor Feldman and uh Walter would have different bass players,
Speaker 1: you know, so one standby in the break room like
Speaker 1: Chuck Brainy. Oh. You know, they just would they would
Speaker 1: just go ahead and hire other guys to do the
Speaker 1: parts that they you know, would do live later, you know,
Speaker 1: just just to get the track to feel the way
Speaker 1: they wanted it to feel. You know. Um, were you
Speaker 1: guys aware at the time that you were laying the
Speaker 1: blueprint for And there's always debate on you know, I
Speaker 1: I see, I mean, I'm seeing yacht rock now. I'm
Speaker 1: probably you hate the term yacht rock the same way
Speaker 1: that I kind of scuffled with the word Neil soul.
Speaker 1: But I mean, in the hindsight, it's a very quick
Speaker 1: way to describe this time of music. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's like a California sound or whatever. And
Speaker 1: it's so weird because I know that critics, at least
Speaker 1: back then like the guys that I interact with now,
Speaker 1: who are music critics that are like kind of in
Speaker 1: their sixties now in seventies. I can tell like they
Speaker 1: seem so not apologetic. But you know, if we talk
Speaker 1: about second Half of Chicago or Toto's music or whatever,
Speaker 1: like any you know, they're always like I'm sorry, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, like I love that ship, Like like
Speaker 1: I don't listen to n w A at the time.
Speaker 1: I listened to everything else. But critics were you guys
Speaker 1: sort of aware of critics sort of well, I mean
Speaker 1: they didn't dismiss Steely Dan as much, but I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: like critics hold Scott Nosen of what l A Soft
Speaker 1: Rock was, you know, yes, and no, I mean, I uh,
Speaker 1: I think we we got a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: bad press a lot of the time, you know, for
Speaker 1: initially and then you know, if the record got popular,
Speaker 1: then it was you know, we always loved it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, but but I think that's just that's just
Speaker 1: kind of comes and that's kind of part of the deal.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, I don't know that we were any
Speaker 1: different than anyone else. You know. It's funny. I was
Speaker 1: watching the Eagles documentary and you know, I thought every
Speaker 1: album they had was like this gigantic success, you know.
Speaker 1: But according to the documentary, there were periods and records
Speaker 1: they did where the record company was thinking of dropping
Speaker 1: them or you know, or you know, they went through
Speaker 1: their own trial and era of uh, and they wanted
Speaker 1: to be more of a rock band, and it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: come on, this country band wants to be a rock
Speaker 1: band now you and they had to face all that
Speaker 1: same kind of run, that same kind of gauntlet with
Speaker 1: critics and record people, and so I think every band
Speaker 1: goes through that, you know. Uh, it's it's just what's
Speaker 1: going on in the inside compared to what people think
Speaker 1: is going on from the outside. Well, speaking of which,
Speaker 1: since you brought it up, were you aware of any
Speaker 1: kind of light ribbing rivalry between the two camps, the
Speaker 1: Eagles and Steely Dan? I know the lyric wise they
Speaker 1: were thinking, No, I I didn't. I didn't really think
Speaker 1: that was true. I think that was a manufactured kind
Speaker 1: of a pressed thing, because I don't know that it
Speaker 1: really ever was anything between. I think it was just
Speaker 1: a lyric in the song, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh kind of like uh when Chuck Berry sang,
Speaker 1: I couldn't un faster or safety belt. It was just
Speaker 1: a kind of a tip of the hat to the
Speaker 1: times we lived in. Uh and uh you know, Uh, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, I thought, I remember when he was
Speaker 1: a kid that we backed him up, and I thought,
Speaker 1: how clever is this this guy? Because safety bills had
Speaker 1: just come out that year, Right, he is putting in
Speaker 1: a song already, you know. But I think the same
Speaker 1: thing with the Eagles. You know, the reference in that
Speaker 1: song was just, uh, you know, it's kind of life
Speaker 1: in today's world, you know, living what reference are we
Speaker 1: turned down? The Eagles of neighbors are listening? You know.
Speaker 1: I don't think it really really meant to be a
Speaker 1: slam at the Eagles, and I think they just kind
Speaker 1: of play, yeah, the Royal scam. Yeah, there's light lyrical references,
Speaker 1: which if it were hip hop, you know. Um, so obviously, Uh,
Speaker 1: Jeff Scott pulls you can I assume that he pulls
Speaker 1: you into the Dubies and the Dubies as you guys
Speaker 1: were working together on the Steely Was he in he
Speaker 1: during your period? Or yes he was and we toured
Speaker 1: together and uh then the Donald Walter Uh disbanded the band,
Speaker 1: you know, in that period of time, and I felt
Speaker 1: kind of like Timothy Schmidt said, you know, uh, I
Speaker 1: just got the best gig in my life and these
Speaker 1: assholes break up? Why after? It was uh, it was
Speaker 1: excuse me, Katie Katie right after Katie Light, right before
Speaker 1: Katie Light. Actually yeah, why did they break up? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I wouldn't speculate myself, because it wasn't really
Speaker 1: a part of their world that I was privy too,
Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. I was just kind
Speaker 1: of a higher guy. What you mean the period between
Speaker 1: Asia do you joined the Dubi's and seventy seven? Um, well, yes, no,
Speaker 1: seventy five when I had taken to the streets. I
Speaker 1: think we didn't Okay, Yeah, so there was like three
Speaker 1: or four years between Gaucha was and was along. So
Speaker 1: you're saying that period wasn't just a right as Black hiatus.
Speaker 1: It was like we break up and then well let's see,
Speaker 1: I mean they were they were starting Katie Lied by
Speaker 1: the time we got done touring, you know, and so
Speaker 1: it wasn't too long after that, maybe six months later
Speaker 1: that I went in the studio with them for Katie
Speaker 1: Lied and saying those backgrounds on bad Sneakers and some
Speaker 1: other things. Um. And then Royal Scam was the next record,
Speaker 1: and then Gaucho I believe Asian than Gaucho. UM. So
Speaker 1: you know, uh, they were. They stayed fairly busy, you know,
Speaker 1: through that period, but they just no longer were Steely
Speaker 1: Dans as we all knew them originally, you know, as
Speaker 1: a band, but more as Walter and Donald you know, okay,
Speaker 1: did you? I mean, why was I'm trying to figure
Speaker 1: out why I want My question is, I'm sorry, why
Speaker 1: wasn't it? I think the biggest you know, And again
Speaker 1: I I it's probably not my place to even say this,
Speaker 1: but they One of the things I I thought at
Speaker 1: the time was they no longer wanted to tour, and
Speaker 1: the only real livelihood the other guys had since they
Speaker 1: weren't the writers, was the touring they did. So they
Speaker 1: wanted to stay on the road. And I don't think
Speaker 1: Donald Walter wanted to be on the road anymore. They
Speaker 1: didn't really care for it, and U and so uh,
Speaker 1: it just it created a whole world that they didn't
Speaker 1: really care to be a part of. They wanted to
Speaker 1: be in the studio and they wanted to be writing
Speaker 1: songs and uh so they that was kind of a
Speaker 1: necessity for them to be able to pursue that more freely,
Speaker 1: to not have the band to consider, you know, because
Speaker 1: going on but the written So how how easy was
Speaker 1: the transition to the Doobies. Um? Surprisingly easy? Uh not
Speaker 1: nothing I counted on. I mean I got the call
Speaker 1: from Jeff and uh I flew down to New Orleans
Speaker 1: and really it was only obsensively. I was just gonna
Speaker 1: fill in for Tommy while he was took up medical
Speaker 1: leave pretty much from in the middle of this tour. Um.
Speaker 1: And then as things progressed and that tour came to
Speaker 1: a close, u Um, there was the back then. It
Speaker 1: was like the Dubious was one of those bands that
Speaker 1: they took very seriously an album a year, you know,
Speaker 1: and the label was really after them to get another record. Um,
Speaker 1: and the way things worked out, it was kind of
Speaker 1: just okay. They we were all kind of caught unprepared.
Speaker 1: I really didn't see myself as part of that part
Speaker 1: of the band. But uh I had made a demo
Speaker 1: with Tyranne at his house and he had put together
Speaker 1: his home studio and he said, you want to try
Speaker 1: recording something, said Serro. You know, I was just over
Speaker 1: his house for dinner. And so we threw the song
Speaker 1: down of just something I had been in my head
Speaker 1: and you know, and I we recorded it and I
Speaker 1: put the vocal down and we thought it sounded pretty good. Uh.
Speaker 1: He played it for Ted Templeman, and Ted said, you
Speaker 1: guys should cut this. This is kind of weird and different,
Speaker 1: you know, for the band. And there was a song
Speaker 1: called a Losing End, which was like the last song
Speaker 1: on Earth. I thought the Dewbey Brothers would ever do,
Speaker 1: you know, and that would wind up being like the
Speaker 1: first track we cut on for the take of the
Speaker 1: Streets record. And then so I hurried up and finished
Speaker 1: a couple of songs that have just been living in
Speaker 1: my head, you know. One was Taken into the Streets
Speaker 1: and keeps You Running and h and so that the
Speaker 1: album kind of started to take shape. Pat had some songs,
Speaker 1: and and Tommy was not really ready to come back
Speaker 1: to the to the group, and in that touring schedule
Speaker 1: and and uh and work, he was still pretty much
Speaker 1: on hiatus at the time, and and in his departure
Speaker 1: was such a gaping hole. And as you can imagine
Speaker 1: you know, in the band it was. He was such
Speaker 1: a driving force in the band the whole time and
Speaker 1: and to this and remained. That's even during the time
Speaker 1: I was with him. A big part of our show
Speaker 1: was the songs he had written for the band. You know.
Speaker 1: So I mean you we're kind of thrown into a
Speaker 1: position similar to Dennis set words the New Temptation or
Speaker 1: even James J. T. Taylor. Um. But as far as
Speaker 1: the songs that, uh, that he sang lead on, like
Speaker 1: when you were first doing your touring with them, like
Speaker 1: were you were you having to do uh listen to
Speaker 1: the music? Yeah, like oh yeah yeah. In fact, when
Speaker 1: I the first gig I did with him, I I
Speaker 1: flew to New Orleans. I got picked up by these
Speaker 1: two guys that I didn't know whether they were taking
Speaker 1: me to rehearsal or kill me, you know. Uh and
Speaker 1: uh he rehearsed in in this place called the Warehouse
Speaker 1: in New Orleans. And UM at the time, at that
Speaker 1: time in my life, you know, uh, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of things going on with me. I was playing
Speaker 1: clubs for a lot of years. I probably was uh
Speaker 1: easy to say, down on my luck so to speak,
Speaker 1: you know, financially and I was, you know, uh, living
Speaker 1: in a garage in Burbank. Uh and uh, I thought, well,
Speaker 1: you know, when I got to meet all these guys, ah,
Speaker 1: I thought, well, this is the gig I've been waiting for.
Speaker 1: Everybody drinks as much as I do, and you know,
Speaker 1: and they kind of Uh it was a pretty rowdy
Speaker 1: bunch of guys, you know. And uh, but they seemed
Speaker 1: to have fun and it was a good band. But
Speaker 1: the thing that struck me the first time we played
Speaker 1: was I was just playing these songs in a bar
Speaker 1: two you know, two nice before I came down here
Speaker 1: in Burbank or Pasadena, you know, Uh, because they were
Speaker 1: like the big It's like Mustang Sally listen to the music,
Speaker 1: long train running. You had to know those songs if
Speaker 1: you're gonna play in any of the dance bars in
Speaker 1: l A. Area. So and here I am on stage
Speaker 1: with these guys playing these songs. I thought that was
Speaker 1: kind of ironic, you know. But um, And for the
Speaker 1: that whole period of time, during the time I was
Speaker 1: with Steely Dan and the Dubies, I lived in two realities,
Speaker 1: you know. I was I'd come home and go back
Speaker 1: to work at the Trojan Club in Pasadena and then
Speaker 1: be ready to hit the road with Steely Dan and
Speaker 1: or the Doobie Brothers. You know. So wait, you were
Speaker 1: in two full fledged bands. Well, no, I am doing
Speaker 1: your your regular club. Yeah, the no the Dubies and
Speaker 1: Steely Dan. That was separate things. But during that period
Speaker 1: when I was with Steely Dan and when I was
Speaker 1: you know, one minute, I was touring Europe with Steely Dan,
Speaker 1: next minute I was back in Pasadena playing at the
Speaker 1: Trojan Club. And then I got an audition to go
Speaker 1: to New Orleans to play with these guys and I
Speaker 1: stayed with them. But during my time off, I went
Speaker 1: back to playing clubs again, just you know, just just
Speaker 1: to stay in, you know, in the circle of guys
Speaker 1: that I played around l A with. You know, how
Speaker 1: much were you making around it? I'm gonna say, could
Speaker 1: you make a Bible living? Were like, okay, not really no,
Speaker 1: I mean back then, for a lot of reasons. One
Speaker 1: was we we weren't that serious about our top forty
Speaker 1: chops and our gigs. You know, we didn't really We
Speaker 1: weren't one of those bands that really made a living
Speaker 1: at it. We were guys that did it for the
Speaker 1: weekend to make a couple hundred bucks piece, you know,
Speaker 1: and have some spending money. And uh, we typically didn't rehearse.
Speaker 1: We just kind of got together and you know a
Speaker 1: lot of the songs you can played and so, you know,
Speaker 1: it was that kind of existence in l A. And
Speaker 1: then I looked to play with and sing on what.
Speaker 1: I did a lot of background singing, So that was
Speaker 1: probably more of a living for me at the time.
Speaker 1: You know, you know what White Luther the same story
Speaker 1: because even you know Luther's tenure with cheek and do
Speaker 1: were you did you cut your teeth like the jingle
Speaker 1: circuit at all? Like, uh, not so much the jingles.
Speaker 1: I did a lot of sessions though with Luther Vandres,
Speaker 1: James Ingram, Philip Ingram, you know, we we were like yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh we did a lot of background singing for
Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, during that period of time.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, back then, Uh, singing for
Speaker 1: publishing houses was a good living. So I think that
Speaker 1: was more Nashville in New York because l A. It
Speaker 1: was really typically more the and it wasn't even a
Speaker 1: real viable demo scene. Typically people did their demos for free,
Speaker 1: you know. And and it wasn't like Nashville where you
Speaker 1: can make a living just playing on demos for publishing companies,
Speaker 1: you know, because there's a lot of publishing companies there.
Speaker 1: But l A, the publishing companies weren't. They weren't in
Speaker 1: the fray like they were in New York. And and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, l A, I mean in Nashville. That wasn't that.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that sector of the music business out there,
Speaker 1: you know, so you couldn't. My assumption is that, you know,
Speaker 1: by seventy five seventy six, when you're like deep into
Speaker 1: doubt them, this wasn't like, Okay, I got a good job.
Speaker 1: I can well it was coming after a while, I
Speaker 1: quit doing the other things, you know, I mean and
Speaker 1: and and went off to just be a doobie brother,
Speaker 1: you know. But okay, but I just meant as a
Speaker 1: do you still feel like this get in any moment?
Speaker 1: And I got yeah. I mean I think we all
Speaker 1: do in a way. I mean, even now, do you
Speaker 1: feel like, well, let's put it this way, I'm surprised
Speaker 1: I'm still doing this for a living as much as
Speaker 1: anyone else. And you know, because I mean, your first
Speaker 1: look is always like I'm still here exactly. Yeah, you'll
Speaker 1: wake up and go, oh my god, you know, but
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, and on the road, there'll be
Speaker 1: any number of times I'm sitting there going you know,
Speaker 1: you're sixty five years old. You know, what the hell
Speaker 1: are you doing out here? You know? Um? And I
Speaker 1: can only gauge the sanity of it by am I
Speaker 1: still having fun? You know? I mean, because to me,
Speaker 1: it's still fun to play live more than almost anything else.
Speaker 1: I think I enjoy playing live more than I enjoy recording.
Speaker 1: So okay, now, I know you said this didn't mean
Speaker 1: anything to you, and you forgot about this in quote.
Speaker 1: Here we go, But what's happening? You can't you can't
Speaker 1: make me believe that you know black person and therefore
Speaker 1: we'll do that. But no black person in their forties
Speaker 1: the fifties doesn't mention that to you every day. And
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to downplay the importance. That's a very
Speaker 1: vivid memory and my you know, for us, it was
Speaker 1: did you guys feel like it was an important move
Speaker 1: like exposure? I don't think we had the sense to
Speaker 1: realize how important it was, you know, And we just
Speaker 1: did it as a lark, you know, and uh uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we thought it would be fun and our
Speaker 1: publicists kind of brought the idea to us and we thought,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you know, let's do that. You know, we
Speaker 1: were just and it was a two part episode. Better yo,
Speaker 1: that was my first to be continued. Why why don't
Speaker 1: you break it down for the people that haven't seen that? Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so okay. There was a comedy show based on the
Speaker 1: movie Cooley High called What's Happening in the seventies that
Speaker 1: featured Ernest Ernest Thomas Jr. Thomas Nelson, and Fred free
Speaker 1: run Berry who was a prominent member of the Lockers Okay,
Speaker 1: Mabel Ka. So it was a very popular popular I
Speaker 1: would dare say it was probably the Martin of the seventies. Well,
Speaker 1: Martin started and What's Happening Now? But that's that's right,
Speaker 1: he did Martin. Yes, I forgot that anyway, So yeah,
Speaker 1: there was. There was an episode you Gotta explains Al
Speaker 1: Dunbar played by the late great Theodore Wilson. I thought
Speaker 1: his name was Sweet Lou or something like that, Like,
Speaker 1: didn't he have a sweet title? He was? He was sweet,
Speaker 1: he was good, same guy. He was one of those
Speaker 1: black actors like you saw in Every Black Thing. So
Speaker 1: like he was he was sweet daddy, Sweet daddy. Okay.
Speaker 1: So basically there's so where the Doobie Brothers are coming
Speaker 1: to perform at Rodgers uh High School, and you know
Speaker 1: rod he writes for the paper, so he's covering the show.
Speaker 1: And so this uh, this, this guy from the Underworld,
Speaker 1: the schevy guy approaches re Run and Rob's play by
Speaker 1: the name of Al Dunbar and he's like, hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: how would you like tickets for this concert? And he's like, uh,
Speaker 1: what's the catch? Ain't no catch, I don't know what.
Speaker 1: You just record this show, fun man and so and
Speaker 1: so he asked him to record this show on like
Speaker 1: this huge fucking tape recorder. It's like, whoever thought that
Speaker 1: this was gonna work anyway? So he basically asked re
Speaker 1: Run to be like the first Napster and ship and
Speaker 1: bootleg the Duey Brothers show. So he go up to
Speaker 1: the joint and so they had really to do it.
Speaker 1: You know, he put he put the stiff form on
Speaker 1: him and he had his gun with him. His goon
Speaker 1: was was Bruno, I think his name was Bruno, and
Speaker 1: he was at the end and the episode ends, he's like,
Speaker 1: oh man, because they try not to do it and
Speaker 1: so we run is like, no, I want to do it.
Speaker 1: We could get in trouble. Alright, alright, alright, well you're
Speaker 1: just gonna have to tell Mr Bruno here, he's not
Speaker 1: gonna get paid Mr Bruno for you please pull up
Speaker 1: a chain and talk to us, certainly. And Mr Bruno
Speaker 1: goes and pulls up at and the joint is and
Speaker 1: it's like to be continued. So then the joint opens
Speaker 1: up and so like they actually talked with the duties
Speaker 1: in episode two, they're talking before the show and so
Speaker 1: like they're like, so what do you think it's the
Speaker 1: biggest problem. I actually have biggest problem BG. So they're
Speaker 1: talking to stuff. So anyway, the show goes on, is great.
Speaker 1: Michael does he does take it to the streets at
Speaker 1: actual Dubie Brothers concerts. Did you guys do that fire thing?
Speaker 1: Every every everybody has their the night I almost set
Speaker 1: my house on fire moment I might have gotten a
Speaker 1: que tip listening twice side playing with matches. Yes, you're right.
Speaker 1: If I watched TV, it was influential. Was very good
Speaker 1: for you guys. Not let me watch that much television. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I saw the Gone Thing, I went in my
Speaker 1: my basement on the drum and try to hit and
Speaker 1: it was not good. Was that? Did I actually do that?
Speaker 1: In Fresh I can't tell you. Well, I don't remember
Speaker 1: really what we did on the show. Uh he he
Speaker 1: lit the guy on firewall. It was it was on
Speaker 1: fire now and it was cut into like d and rerunning.
Speaker 1: They were all like looking and stuff. And so then
Speaker 1: I think y'all doing take They played up like a
Speaker 1: high school and Compton though like the high school the
Speaker 1: Dude Brothers doing a rock show. All right, everybody's excited. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everyone loved Dude and so because because the album was
Speaker 1: Living on the fault Line. That was the album at
Speaker 1: the time, and they were talking about it. So anyway,
Speaker 1: so the crowd is going crazy and and uh, MIKEA.
Speaker 1: Mcdonnald's killing taking to the streets, singing, just going in.
Speaker 1: You don't know he was. It was so strong he
Speaker 1: was saying through his beer, was sometimes so goddamn might
Speaker 1: not I'm saying that ship and got damn we want
Speaker 1: to get up and start jumping up and down, and
Speaker 1: the TAU and everybody and the smooth criminal League. That's
Speaker 1: the first time I saw the screuth ruminal league. Not
Speaker 1: everybody Michael Jackson, and it's like, so then at the
Speaker 1: end of the joint, they're sitting at the I guess
Speaker 1: everybody left. They went back home to company. And so
Speaker 1: then they're sitting and like the dude Rubbers just like, yo, man,
Speaker 1: that's fucked up. I thought you was our home. He was,
Speaker 1: I know what you are our friends. But this guy
Speaker 1: told us he would hurt us. It wouldn't be a
Speaker 1: guy by the name of out Dumball would. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was Out dumb Bar. So then they go back to
Speaker 1: Rob's place and they catch out Dunbar and they play
Speaker 1: the tape and this just rerun eating chips. I can
Speaker 1: hear you listening to this episode right now being mad
Speaker 1: at to worship the storytelling stock take a little thank you. Wait,
Speaker 1: that's not real life at that's time, that time a year.
Speaker 1: It was never a Doobie brother show with a full
Speaker 1: because with a full black crowd, like we're black people
Speaker 1: embracing you got then I was like, oh, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was funny. I found in
Speaker 1: my solo career, my you know my first couple of records.
Speaker 1: That's how we got on the radio was back then
Speaker 1: it was more independently owned radio stations and uh, and
Speaker 1: it was really R and B radio that picked up
Speaker 1: our singles like keep Forgetting In Sweet Freedom first and
Speaker 1: we kind of crossed over to uh like Top forty
Speaker 1: or what are they what was it called then contemporary
Speaker 1: hit radio, you know, but uh, we really got our
Speaker 1: start on the R and B radio, which back then
Speaker 1: you could walk into a small station that was owned
Speaker 1: by a guy who was the program director and who
Speaker 1: would sit and play your whole record with you and
Speaker 1: and you know, you sit and play your whole album,
Speaker 1: you know, to an audience, uh and talk about it.
Speaker 1: And you know that's unheard of today because of all
Speaker 1: the syndicated kind of radio things that people just can't
Speaker 1: do that anymore, at least not much my heart having it. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so let's jump to the thank you sent me. Can
Speaker 1: you please explain to us what was you on when
Speaker 1: you wrote What a Fool Believes? Um, it's one of
Speaker 1: the most notable, memorable, confusing words structures I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: I still don't know what the song means. It's it's
Speaker 1: he sees the wise man has the power. I know
Speaker 1: the hook. I'm just talking about the narrative. Um, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I think the idea was a guy living
Speaker 1: in his own head believing that, uh, he left this
Speaker 1: great love affair that he needs to retrieve and that
Speaker 1: it must have been the same for her, and in
Speaker 1: fact it meant absolutely nothing to her. And uh so
Speaker 1: you couldn't just write you on my mind all the time, right,
Speaker 1: I don't think you're talking about the song. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: The funny thing about that song was, uh, I had
Speaker 1: that riff in the verse riff for easily a year
Speaker 1: or two, and I take sometimes a year to write
Speaker 1: a song, you know, But every time I play it
Speaker 1: for Ted Temple, he's you know, what, do you guys
Speaker 1: got got any new stuff? You know? So I played
Speaker 1: that little piano riff and I had just a couple
Speaker 1: of lyrics in the verse and he, God, you you've
Speaker 1: got to finish that. He goes, I'm telling you that's
Speaker 1: a hit. I just feel it, and I go, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna finish it, you know. Of course I never did.
Speaker 1: And uh I was good together with Kenny Loggins for
Speaker 1: the first time, and he came down to my house
Speaker 1: and my sister was cleaning the house because she wanted
Speaker 1: to meet Kenny Loggins mostly, but and uh, I was
Speaker 1: at the piano kind of thinking of things I might
Speaker 1: play for him. So I was playing stuff for her,
Speaker 1: you know, going, what do you think of this? You know,
Speaker 1: I was thinking of playing this for Kenny, And uh, she's, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's great, you know. She's you know, picking up like,
Speaker 1: you know, my dirty clothes on the floor and all that,
Speaker 1: you know, and and not really paying much attention to me,
Speaker 1: and the doorbell rings, and sure enough it was Kenny.
Speaker 1: And the first thing he says, because what were you
Speaker 1: just playing? I was playing her that riff? And I said, oh,
Speaker 1: it's just something I was thinking about playing for you.
Speaker 1: He goes, That's what I want to work on first.
Speaker 1: And that was the first song we wrote together. And
Speaker 1: so what was the kind of division of labor for
Speaker 1: that record? Uh, in terms of he did, you didn't music,
Speaker 1: he did lyrics. We both we both wrote I think both,
Speaker 1: you know. From that point on, we came up with
Speaker 1: the ridge or b section and then the chorus together,
Speaker 1: you know, and the rest of the words, you know,
Speaker 1: because I literally only had the little verse feeling. You know,
Speaker 1: they're just kind of the tempo of the song and
Speaker 1: the chords in the verse. You know again, are you
Speaker 1: it's so intelligent, like were you? I know, no one
Speaker 1: starts thinking like, Okay, this is our bulls eye moment,
Speaker 1: this is going to happen. Like at any point did
Speaker 1: you guys think like, maybe we should dumb this down
Speaker 1: just slightly, because I mean, the bridge, the post bridge,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very steely Dan Well. I was gonna
Speaker 1: say at that time that was really that music was,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean everybody was trying to uh harmonize
Speaker 1: in a new and a different way and bring something,
Speaker 1: you know. It was it was after that that it
Speaker 1: got to be where, well, we gotta pull us back
Speaker 1: and make it more primitive and rock and roll and
Speaker 1: you know all that, you know, eighties it was like,
Speaker 1: you know, all these courts changes or you know, that's
Speaker 1: you know, not not hip or cool anymore. But at
Speaker 1: the time that we did it, it was steely Dan
Speaker 1: James Taylor, people artists like that who had very you know,
Speaker 1: James Taylor, as much as he was kind of uh
Speaker 1: kind of came from that singer songwriter tradition. Almost folks.
Speaker 1: His influences as a is from a jazz perspective very evident,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh a lot of his songs and
Speaker 1: uh so he you know, he brought a lot of
Speaker 1: and that was the era to where albums artists tried
Speaker 1: to do a lot of different styles of music on
Speaker 1: one record. Like if you listen to like the old
Speaker 1: oh you know records, you know that well, I think
Speaker 1: Ray Charles started that where you know, you kind of
Speaker 1: step outside your own genre and do music isn't necessarily related,
Speaker 1: you know people, but the country at yeah, and uh
Speaker 1: where James Taylor was great at that. He would do
Speaker 1: an R and B song, he would do a song
Speaker 1: with Marimba's you know, and he would do the next
Speaker 1: song would be a very kind of guitar vocal focus
Speaker 1: kind of thing and beautiful lyrics and so he never
Speaker 1: shied away from any style of music that he thought
Speaker 1: he could be sincere and and a lot of artists
Speaker 1: were like that during that time, and that seemed to
Speaker 1: be what had come out of the sixties, was artists
Speaker 1: exploring other genres of music other than maybe the genre
Speaker 1: they started out in. And so we were just kind
Speaker 1: of doing what was kind of being done at the time,
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't really think of ourselves as anything
Speaker 1: too different. You know, so when you're sitting in the
Speaker 1: audience at uh at the Shrine Auditorium and N nine
Speaker 1: was like that was highly notable for it, so many
Speaker 1: so much heavy heading going on as far as the
Speaker 1: nominations were considered. And at the Grammys, Uh, you're going up.
Speaker 1: I think you don't bring me flowers? Uh the Gambler,
Speaker 1: M I will survive. And after the love is going right?
Speaker 1: What was your what was the feeling? And you're like
Speaker 1: women called your name for Record of the Year and
Speaker 1: Song of the Year. You guys went off five major
Speaker 1: awards except for Album I believe. Yeah it was. It
Speaker 1: was amazing. Uh, Like did you expect it or no?
Speaker 1: I don't think you could expect you know under yeah,
Speaker 1: you just yeah, you feel I felt like, what are
Speaker 1: the chances of you know, the first record of this
Speaker 1: man Nature that I had anything to do with actually
Speaker 1: winning a Grammy, But we were we were fairly taken
Speaker 1: back by the whole idea that we were gonna win
Speaker 1: not just a Grammy, but a couple you know. Um,
Speaker 1: it was amazing and I remember I mean, not to
Speaker 1: be corny, but my grandmother was in the audience that night.
Speaker 1: She had come to the ground. Yeah, and I was
Speaker 1: so grateful she was still with us and that she
Speaker 1: was able to be here for this, you know. And uh,
Speaker 1: but you know, I mean, it was just kind of amazing.
Speaker 1: It was kind of surreal, really, you know, it was.
Speaker 1: It wasn' until I drove home that night. I remember
Speaker 1: they had sent a car for me, and I just
Speaker 1: kind of had the guy drive up and down Pacific
Speaker 1: Coast Highway a couple of times so I could kind
Speaker 1: of come down from the whole experience before I had
Speaker 1: to go home and go into my house all alone
Speaker 1: and me by myself with this. You know. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: funny Pacific Goes Highway. Okay, that is one of the
Speaker 1: greatest I'm glad. You know, I'm not the only human
Speaker 1: being that doesn't doesn't ride Pacific O Sideway just to
Speaker 1: ride it to relax. Oh yeah, okay, sure good, there's
Speaker 1: other people. So we're one step as it comes out.
Speaker 1: Why did it include was there pressure to like lots? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I felt my personal pressure really that you know, well, God,
Speaker 1: now this record, you know, that whole thing of that
Speaker 1: the next record is really important. You know, I've learned
Speaker 1: that that was never true. But at the time, you know,
Speaker 1: you buy into it and you think it's like the
Speaker 1: most important thing in the world and it's just really
Speaker 1: not all that important. But uh, and whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you'll survive it. But you don't know that at the time.
Speaker 1: And I remember feeling a lot of pressure, and I
Speaker 1: think the band felt a lot of pressure to kind
Speaker 1: of come up with something uh else again and something
Speaker 1: new and maybe something even different from the records we
Speaker 1: had done up to that moment, you know. Um, And
Speaker 1: you know, I think at that point in time it
Speaker 1: was maybe it kind of marked the beginning of the
Speaker 1: end of my tenure with the Dubies, although I still
Speaker 1: play with the guys and I still look forward to
Speaker 1: playing with them every chance I get. I uh, you know,
Speaker 1: great friends with him to this and uh, I really
Speaker 1: think as Adobie brother, all of us who are ever
Speaker 1: had any affiliation with the band. Uh, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like once a Dubie brother, you're always adube Brother somewhere
Speaker 1: in your heart and mind, you know. So was the
Speaker 1: breakup amicable or yeah, it was? It was. It was amicable,
Speaker 1: and we were like any other band. You know, we
Speaker 1: had our moments, you know, we threw furniture at each other,
Speaker 1: and that's where I want you to do. Like as
Speaker 1: the new guy, how can you you're the new guy,
Speaker 1: but you're now the definitive voice of the group, almost
Speaker 1: bringing in hit more yea more definitive than what came before.
Speaker 1: So it's like how much power? Were you still the
Speaker 1: rookie that had to carry all the bag but teams jockstraps?
Speaker 1: Or was it like um, might will be done and
Speaker 1: we love you and then like, you know, well what
Speaker 1: about me? I've been here since nineteen seventy one? Like
Speaker 1: was that dynamic? Like? No, it was never you know,
Speaker 1: because I think internally within the band, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: I think all of us still looked at you know,
Speaker 1: at that point in time, Pat was kind of the
Speaker 1: senior member, you know, and and kind of the guy
Speaker 1: everyone looked too to kind of keep the band together,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. In fact, it was when he left
Speaker 1: the band that, uh, we showed up for a rehearsal
Speaker 1: and I don't and we all kind of looked across
Speaker 1: the stage each other, like what are we doing here?
Speaker 1: Because without Pat, it's really just not the Doobie Brothers anything.
Speaker 1: It was after um the live album, we did the
Speaker 1: Farewell tour, Yeah, and uh, it just didn't seem like
Speaker 1: there was any reason for us to go out and
Speaker 1: try to be the Doobie Brothers anymore, you know, And
Speaker 1: I think it was unanimous, you know, really, you know,
Speaker 1: uh so even when you did what it takes a minute,
Speaker 1: your your first solo record with if that's what it takes,
Speaker 1: if that's what it takes him side belore we go
Speaker 1: before we go to Is it true that Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: is singing backgrounds a minute? But I mean no, he
Speaker 1: said it, and I didn't know that was real enough,
Speaker 1: you know. You know, it actually was a joke that
Speaker 1: the whole tape, I've heard the whole conversation. People kind
Speaker 1: of edited it down to to him just telling I
Speaker 1: think it was Elizabeth Taylor. I think I'm just talking
Speaker 1: to but he was just pulling her chain. And then
Speaker 1: later on he tells her that he was kidding, you know,
Speaker 1: but actually, you know what, speaking of which, you guys
Speaker 1: have the same publicists as the Jackson's, That's right, David Guest.
Speaker 1: So there's a photo of I don't know what party.
Speaker 1: It was. I don't know if it was a Doobie's
Speaker 1: Grammy party or something, but it's some sort of like
Speaker 1: after party thing. And the caption says that you guys
Speaker 1: did a long train running, shake your body down to
Speaker 1: the grounds up mash up because I see I believe one.
Speaker 1: It's Michael and Randy on stage with you guys like Tito. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was the Jackson's and it was at the Friars
Speaker 1: Club in l A. It was a benefit show and uh,
Speaker 1: I forget what the charity was. It was a Jackson
Speaker 1: family charity and we yeah, and we we just kind
Speaker 1: of came as guests and uh and we did we
Speaker 1: did uh uh long train running? And has this? Does
Speaker 1: anyone have a bootleg of this or record? You know what?
Speaker 1: I think? I think there is somewhere out there in
Speaker 1: the world where I wouldn't you love this? Yeah? I mean,
Speaker 1: how do you? Were you guys big into archiving any
Speaker 1: great I'm asking you. Were you into collecting? You say no,
Speaker 1: but you know, people over the years would send us
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And I once I had a big
Speaker 1: photo album of all those different photos of the No
Speaker 1: one has a Super eight in the studio as you're
Speaker 1: doing like open your eyes and none of that stuff. No,
Speaker 1: damn no, we just we we hadn't you know, we
Speaker 1: didn't have that consciousness yet, you know. Um, but I
Speaker 1: think the Doobies actually have a lot of Super eight
Speaker 1: movies from early Doobi's years, you know, on the plane
Speaker 1: and touring and stuff like that. You know. So with
Speaker 1: your solo career, how scary was that too? Probably the
Speaker 1: most scary thing I've ever done, you know. Uh, it
Speaker 1: was for some reason, and I'm not sure why. I
Speaker 1: just uh because there was a part of my life
Speaker 1: when I thought I'm gonna go out to California, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be a recording artist, and I had that
Speaker 1: idea in my head. But somehow coming full circle as
Speaker 1: a member of bands, uh uh and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden being kind of well, I felt like I
Speaker 1: was walking the plank, you know, as to be a
Speaker 1: solo artist. Yeah. But uh, and it took me a
Speaker 1: few shows too kind of find my comfort zone. That
Speaker 1: first tour was pretty scary, and I had a great
Speaker 1: band and you know, Edgar Winner, um, robbin Ford playing guitar.
Speaker 1: You know, it was an amazing Ben Willie Weeks played
Speaker 1: bass with me and I couldn't have done better as
Speaker 1: far as the band's concerned. Brian Man played keyboards, but
Speaker 1: I just had no concept of how to act up there.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't so you used to be the yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I could sing a couple of songs and
Speaker 1: then someone else does all the word spotlight would shift over.
Speaker 1: There was sweet freedom like your first music video, because
Speaker 1: in your face. When I watched that video sometimes I
Speaker 1: was like, oh he did he really may not be comfortable?
Speaker 1: Did I jump? Sorry? I just was asking. I didn't
Speaker 1: okay that it wasn't the first The first one was
Speaker 1: I keep forgetting that we did a music video and
Speaker 1: it was it was yeah, awkward, you know, it was
Speaker 1: don't look at any further that it was not further. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: on you. You came on Soul trying to promote it,
Speaker 1: and probably the best thing about it was the heavy
Speaker 1: weights you had with you. I mean, you have Lewis
Speaker 1: Johnson and that's Lewis Lewis Johnson, yeah, and and Jeff
Speaker 1: picarl and great filling Gaines. You had the cats with you.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean we're worshiping like you have the
Speaker 1: gods with you. But back then it's just like, who
Speaker 1: do we get, Let's get a well, you know, I
Speaker 1: was lucky to be able to get those guys for sure,
Speaker 1: and it was my two sisters singing backgrounds. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: uh yeah I would. I would say that on a
Speaker 1: good day you could get those guys to come and
Speaker 1: play on TV with you. But you know that it
Speaker 1: just so happened. Everybody was available and so, um, that's
Speaker 1: only in particular, it was Um I was reading it
Speaker 1: started off as a Leeber and Stoller. It was, wait,
Speaker 1: you're kind of jumping the gun because we're about to
Speaker 1: play around of So, Mike McDonald, I need you to
Speaker 1: tell me what are your thoughts of hearing the song?
Speaker 1: And what are your thoughts Chuck Jackie forgetting that you
Speaker 1: don't keep, forgetting that you don't along keep forgetting that
Speaker 1: you tell me? So I found this forty five in Japan,
Speaker 1: like fit seen years ago, but it came out in
Speaker 1: nine what how well, it's it's an interesting story. Um
Speaker 1: and who was that? Okay? That was long John Baldry,
Speaker 1: Chuck Jackson. Chuck Jackson did the original man Um, there
Speaker 1: was a Liver Stoler song. Uh, and believe it or not,
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to me at the time was my Uh it
Speaker 1: was one of those things where we were kind of playing.
Speaker 1: My writing partner said, you know, there's this because he
Speaker 1: had somehow, you know, I mentioned the song or something
Speaker 1: and I was kind of just playing the piano or
Speaker 1: if any. He goes, what's that. I go, well, that's
Speaker 1: what you were just saying, and he goes, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: he goes, that's totally different. And uh so we we
Speaker 1: wrote the song. You know, I was immediately reminded by
Speaker 1: other people that, you know that that's closer than you think,
Speaker 1: you know, so, uh, you know, we got in contact
Speaker 1: with Mike Stiller and Jerry Leeber and we realized that
Speaker 1: we had infringed on their copyright, you know, and they
Speaker 1: were gracious enough to give us some credit for the
Speaker 1: this version of the song. Kind of weird that you
Speaker 1: technically wrote a song with the guys that like you
Speaker 1: that's a real building classic. Yeah. I was not, I
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I don't mean to say this like,
Speaker 1: because you know, I knew better I shouldn't. The minute
Speaker 1: I heard this guy say, oh no, that's not I realized,
Speaker 1: you know, I better listen to that song before I
Speaker 1: make any you know, but I didn't, you know, and
Speaker 1: I just you know, we we recorded it, our version
Speaker 1: of it anyway, and uh, and right away one of
Speaker 1: the guys that Warner Brothers, one of the producers war was, said,
Speaker 1: he gave me his tape because listen to this, you know.
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, well, you know, yeah, for you
Speaker 1: at least. Yeah. Well, I I realized that we needed
Speaker 1: to you know, get their permission, and you know, and
Speaker 1: and they, like I said, they were nice enough to
Speaker 1: give us their permission to release it and put it out. Uh,
Speaker 1: but you know, and and credit were credits. Do you
Speaker 1: know that that that song ours would not have existed
Speaker 1: but for their original song? You know? So let's jump
Speaker 1: who's credited. Who's credited officially for the writing of that song? Sorry,
Speaker 1: who's officially credited for the writing? It's so Mike Stoller,
Speaker 1: Jerry Lieber, myself and Ed Sanford for for our version
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, the original version was a libre stoler song.
Speaker 1: So twelve years later, the song comes back to haunt you.
Speaker 1: Yeah and the most the most gangster rapped narrative of
Speaker 1: all time. But using this as a backdrop with with Oranges, Uh, defunk. Uh,
Speaker 1: what were your initial feelings or you know, um where
Speaker 1: the text? Not where the text? Nice? But you know,
Speaker 1: did you have were you hesitant to clear? No? You know,
Speaker 1: but back then, what I what I remember was typically
Speaker 1: somebody would give you, you know, ten grand and it
Speaker 1: was theirs, you know, I mean, it wasn't like the
Speaker 1: deals that are made today where you know, like now
Speaker 1: it's it's it was a one off. Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was just like you know, well, you know, we want
Speaker 1: to sample this? What'll it cost? That? That wasn't a
Speaker 1: one off though, right? Not that song? Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: was gonna you the version of my kids, like you know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, but then the expressed I'm sure there was
Speaker 1: renewed interest in hearing it live all of a sudden. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny, yeah it was. It had a
Speaker 1: certain impact on on the you know, the art record.
Speaker 1: So many people think that's the version of the song
Speaker 1: that you know as this you know, like yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure. My own kids didn't think that,
Speaker 1: you know, because they hadn't really heard my version. They
Speaker 1: were weren't even born yet, you know. So have you
Speaker 1: have you ever performed it with Warrengy. Once someone comes
Speaker 1: that has to happen, ESPEC make it and he has.
Speaker 1: Did you hit that? Michael? You heard that? I thought
Speaker 1: I just saw those guys on some TV show or
Speaker 1: a documentary of some kind, and it was like, wow, man,
Speaker 1: it was Is that the first time hip hop artist
Speaker 1: asked you for the rights or UM? I believe it was.
Speaker 1: And we've had quite a few things sampled since then.
Speaker 1: Minute by minute was sampled. Uh. Thanks, that was hard.
Speaker 1: It's not straightforward. Wait, oh god, the interim it throws
Speaker 1: me off every time. I'm sorry, I know, but like
Speaker 1: every time I hear it, I'm still like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: wait hit. So yeah, there's no regrets of it at all,
Speaker 1: you know, like all things it, Uh, what's kind of
Speaker 1: like the Rolling Stones with I used to love her.
Speaker 1: It's all over now, you know, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: first they were going, oh, you know, we gotta we
Speaker 1: just had our first top ten record and these guys
Speaker 1: scoop us, you know, and and then he said, but
Speaker 1: then when the check started rolling in, I wouldn't didn't
Speaker 1: feel so bad about you. Weren't mad anymore. How did
Speaker 1: you get into working with UM for Carlie Simon, but
Speaker 1: like you Belong to Me, Carly, I played on some
Speaker 1: we play the Dubies actually played some tracks on on
Speaker 1: her the album before that. We we Uh. She used
Speaker 1: us to play on Oh Gosh, a song that she
Speaker 1: had recorded and I can't remember what it was now,
Speaker 1: but we played. We were the rhythm section. And it
Speaker 1: was upon meeting her during those sessions, um Ted said,
Speaker 1: you know, you guys should write together. And so the
Speaker 1: first chance I got, I had a little thing on cassette,
Speaker 1: you know, which was you Belong to Me and the
Speaker 1: chord progression, and I sent her the cassette um and
Speaker 1: she wrote a lyric and sent the lyric back written
Speaker 1: out on paper, which I wish I still had, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh and uh I had given her enough melody,
Speaker 1: just kind of mumbling, you know on the tape that
Speaker 1: she kind of wrote to that and that Cadence and uh.
Speaker 1: We never spoke the entire time we wrote the song together.
Speaker 1: It was until like five years later she had a
Speaker 1: number one hit with it, or you know, at top
Speaker 1: five record with it, and I wasn't your version first
Speaker 1: though was first. It was never a single for us,
Speaker 1: but it was kind of a popular album cut. But uh,
Speaker 1: so about five years later she had a hit with it,
Speaker 1: and uh, I thought, well, you know, jeez, I should
Speaker 1: call her and say congratulations or something, you know, And
Speaker 1: I saw I called her on the phone. We kind
Speaker 1: of laughed about the fact that we hadn't spoken about
Speaker 1: this for the last so many years. You got the
Speaker 1: backgrounds on away from her. I didn't sing on that record,
Speaker 1: not on her first Yeah, just the Doobi's record when
Speaker 1: I sang and did the background song, and so I
Speaker 1: forget she she did that record in New York. That's
Speaker 1: you singing backgrounds on h right, like to win? Christopher Cross?
Speaker 1: How did that call about? I love that record? Actually,
Speaker 1: it was like we were like a day like today,
Speaker 1: We'd be sitting in the studio, uh and Doobi's, you know,
Speaker 1: in studio Amigo and uh Christopher Cross was his first
Speaker 1: album was being cut in the studio next door and
Speaker 1: the producer was Michael Martin, and he came over and said, Hey,
Speaker 1: would you if you get a minute after after you
Speaker 1: guys are done, would you come over and sing a
Speaker 1: background part for me? And I said sure and just
Speaker 1: kind of went over and how did you feel about
Speaker 1: the SETV sketch, which we we recreated that sketch on
Speaker 1: the Tonight Show where we literally had him run into
Speaker 1: the studio making it to the keyboard just in time
Speaker 1: to say just like THEV sketch second second, yeah, kind
Speaker 1: of the snl of was it? Yeah? Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: like And the bit was based on the fact that, uh,
Speaker 1: every time his part comes up, such a long way
Speaker 1: to go that he would literally like do plane trains
Speaker 1: in the automobile, like order plane on the train running
Speaker 1: at this sound just to literally get to the microphone
Speaker 1: in time for such a little and then run away
Speaker 1: and then you know, do it every time. But we
Speaker 1: when we had Christopher Cross on the show, we didn't
Speaker 1: announce the audience that Michael McDonald was there. We just
Speaker 1: had an empty keyboard. And as soon as Christopher was playing,
Speaker 1: wasn't he wasn't Keith playing it at first? Oh you're right,
Speaker 1: you're right, keeping feet shout out of keeping feet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so right when the bridge came in, Michael McDonald
Speaker 1: just ran in bump Keith off, and such a little
Speaker 1: Michael McDonald because of the Cross like I got. You know,
Speaker 1: the funny thing about that that SETV bit for me
Speaker 1: was Uh. I had just left a friend of mine's
Speaker 1: room and one of the other band members and we
Speaker 1: were on the road and we had just smoked this
Speaker 1: joint and I was really, you know, stoned, you know,
Speaker 1: more than usual kind of thing. And I remember sitting
Speaker 1: there thinking, I gotta go lay down, you know, and
Speaker 1: I was just kind of felt like whatever the stuff was,
Speaker 1: it was you ungodly and right now, not for years,
Speaker 1: but this was back in the day. But anyway, I
Speaker 1: left and I kind of got my key in my
Speaker 1: door and I'm thinking, man, I not really with it.
Speaker 1: And as I walked in, I always used to leave
Speaker 1: my TV on, and that skit was in progress on
Speaker 1: the TV, and I'm like, walked in, I'm going I
Speaker 1: know that guy. And it took me a second. I thought,
Speaker 1: I think I'm really having a psychotic breakdown here. Wait.
Speaker 1: How nerdy are we to not even mentioned weed it
Speaker 1: all to Adobie Brother in this nine minute interview. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to, and I think Steve was scared because
Speaker 1: it was just I was going because you talk about it, well,
Speaker 1: I read a number one growing industry and the United States. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was reading about your new record, which I really like.
Speaker 1: I was checking it on the way over here, and
Speaker 1: I was I mean, I listened to it one time
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, I mean it sounds like
Speaker 1: Mike Ldonbads never read an interview talking about how a
Speaker 1: lot of songs are kind of about your sobriety, and
Speaker 1: that just made me hear it in a different way.
Speaker 1: How long have you been sober? It's been thirty one years.
Speaker 1: And it was a good idea for me, of all
Speaker 1: the people I know, and that's sober from from all
Speaker 1: yeah everything, Yeah, I drinking or smoking or nothing, nothing sober,
Speaker 1: Dubie brother. I needed to do that. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's the best thing I ever decision I
Speaker 1: ever made, you know. I mean obviously it's I don't
Speaker 1: think I would be here, to be quite honest. That
Speaker 1: became increasingly more obvious to me as time went on
Speaker 1: and I realized that I didn't have that much further
Speaker 1: to go down that road, you know, And so there
Speaker 1: were low points. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, a good swath
Speaker 1: of low point you know. But you know, uh, I'm
Speaker 1: one of the lucky ones, you know. That's that's the
Speaker 1: moral of that story. Yeah, And there's not you know,
Speaker 1: the odds, you know, the sobriety apparently aren't that good.
Speaker 1: But it's it's, uh, you know, there is a solution
Speaker 1: out there for people who need it, and and God willing,
Speaker 1: you know, you find that, you know, because for me,
Speaker 1: the alternative would have been the bad alternative, you know.
Speaker 1: You know what was just solution how we be able
Speaker 1: to stay so just one day at a time, you know,
Speaker 1: I just uh, really surrendering to the truth of it,
Speaker 1: you know. I think the big, the great obsession for
Speaker 1: for most people who addicted is that I got this.
Speaker 1: I can handle that. I can I can fix this,
Speaker 1: you know, I can, you know. And it's unfortunately for
Speaker 1: most of us who suffer from addiction, there's not enough
Speaker 1: willpower in the universe that we could muster to to
Speaker 1: fix it once we're there, you know. And so there
Speaker 1: are there are solutions that come in the form of
Speaker 1: the community of people who are who you know, are
Speaker 1: suffering from the same disease, and that and that's you know,
Speaker 1: I can't really you know, speak beyond that because I'm
Speaker 1: not an authority on it, you know, but I can
Speaker 1: say that that That's what I would suggest anyone is
Speaker 1: to find find people in sobriety that can share their experience,
Speaker 1: strength and hope with you. You know, have you found
Speaker 1: that being sober? Has it helped you preserve your voice
Speaker 1: because you soundly? No, I that's that's you know that
Speaker 1: would have probably died first, but I would have been
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter, you know. Uh, No, it's uh, you know,
Speaker 1: most everything worthwhile in my life today is a direct
Speaker 1: result of sobriety. For me, um, probably none of it
Speaker 1: is anything I would have put on that list if
Speaker 1: you had given it to me, saying, well, if you
Speaker 1: were able to, you know, stop using um, what would
Speaker 1: what would you be hoping for? You know, most of
Speaker 1: what is most important to me today are things I
Speaker 1: would have never even thought of, you know, just the
Speaker 1: simple things, the simple uh aspects of my life. It
Speaker 1: just wouldn't have existed, you know, I would have never
Speaker 1: got to that, you know part. Okay, we're gonna wind
Speaker 1: up the show. But there's still like version there's well
Speaker 1: you worked with the great rock Temperton. Oh what was
Speaker 1: that like? He's one of the one of my music Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the best R and B writers that I know.
Speaker 1: You know, heat Wave was one of the best groups
Speaker 1: you know that I can think of it with a
Speaker 1: book of songs that I You know, sometimes when you
Speaker 1: play with the band and then you realize just how
Speaker 1: many songs they actually had. That's happened to me many times.
Speaker 1: You know. We we played with a w B. We
Speaker 1: played with the heat Wave a couple of gigs and
Speaker 1: it's like song after song and you go, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I forgot. And Steely Dan also, you know when or
Speaker 1: the Dubies, I almost forget how many how deep their
Speaker 1: their songbook is, you know. Uh. And Heatwave was like that.
Speaker 1: That was one of those groups where there were so
Speaker 1: many songs. Uh. They were a British group, you know,
Speaker 1: with these classic R and B songs, you know that
Speaker 1: I thought were just American records. I had no idea
Speaker 1: they were records made in London. You know, British can
Speaker 1: do Americans better than you know. And Rod was a
Speaker 1: great writer, a great producer, you know. Speak speaking of
Speaker 1: you not being in the room at the same time.
Speaker 1: I heard you also say that when you did on
Speaker 1: my own, had to be in the same room that you. No, No,
Speaker 1: you didn't even meet. I hadn't even met yet, said
Speaker 1: I sang to her voice. No, I hadn't hadn't met
Speaker 1: her yet, you know I met her weight. We performed
Speaker 1: that song for the first time the day after we
Speaker 1: met on the Tonight Show and what about ever change.
Speaker 1: Wreatha was not there when I sang to her voice
Speaker 1: for it was Bert and Carol producer, but o I
Speaker 1: did perform it with her though. At the Grammys, I
Speaker 1: love that song or any motherfucker's going to talk about
Speaker 1: yamo be there, I asked him. One who was like
Speaker 1: the informer I want to read it's alright, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got to actually do the video with her, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and talk about that the bulk of the video of
Speaker 1: the Patty and he wasn't in the room whether there
Speaker 1: I did. I did shoot the video with the wreath
Speaker 1: in Detroit, but not with pat She was doing a
Speaker 1: play in New York. Sure the box with got the
Speaker 1: video together. The song is called on my own alright,
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, I will be there the battle of
Speaker 1: the Yeah, the battle Well wait, I'm actually more I'm
Speaker 1: more impressive you name dropped James brother Philip than anything,
Speaker 1: because he's one of my favorite singers. Switch yeah. But
Speaker 1: with the process had the big yeah, the feather yea.
Speaker 1: He was in there, but like, did Rod also do
Speaker 1: that as well? Or yamo? Yeah, ro Rob was one
Speaker 1: of the writers on Yamobi there that made that's all
Speaker 1: made a big impression on my Christian household. That was Yeah,
Speaker 1: it made a very big impression, especially you know the
Speaker 1: division of secular and you know the local radio station
Speaker 1: in Philly, w z z D used to play that
Speaker 1: a lot. Yes, they would. Was it your intention to
Speaker 1: make a gospel song? Or pretty much? I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: and um we Uh it's funny because uh, that was
Speaker 1: probably the third song we wrote that Quincy kept you know,
Speaker 1: going and go back to the rejection. You guys need
Speaker 1: to go back write something better, you know, And uh
Speaker 1: so we we kept trying, you know, and uh, James
Speaker 1: and I spent a lot of time in my studio
Speaker 1: just kind of right at the did you fully flesh
Speaker 1: out the other two songs that didn't make it? We
Speaker 1: made demos on on them. Um did they wind up
Speaker 1: being anything? No? No? Uh was a party animal? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: it was It was one song I can't remember that.
Speaker 1: It was like a better Man and uh actually was
Speaker 1: kind We liked it. We thought it was We thought
Speaker 1: this is gonna conch is gonna love this and it
Speaker 1: was like a yeah, but damn but Yamo was the
Speaker 1: song that he mentioned he caught his ear, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh um we were just you know, uh, like
Speaker 1: I said, he spent countless hours just sitting there. We
Speaker 1: had a good time, you know, writing because he and
Speaker 1: I it was always a good hang you know with James.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, for those of us not familiar with
Speaker 1: what the hell of yamo be there means no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm asking, but it was your question. Yeah yeah, well yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of in reference to God will be there.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, uh that that's the answer, you know.
Speaker 1: Uh uh and yeah wait yea yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this isn't I feel like it was one of those
Speaker 1: Michael McDonald's words because it's just easy to Okay, do
Speaker 1: you get tired of people imitating you in front of
Speaker 1: your face? I think that, you know, have you ever
Speaker 1: met Anita Baker? Like has she? Yeah? Sure, short and
Speaker 1: Petty Austin to express for you, but yeah, no, you know,
Speaker 1: it's uh, I feel like Ed Sullivan, you know, every
Speaker 1: really big shoe. But did they do it inconvenient moments
Speaker 1: like when you're like trying to sleep in the on
Speaker 1: the airplane and you know things like that, or some
Speaker 1: some guy'll stagger out of a bar and grab me
Speaker 1: on the street started to start SINGINGLF we did that
Speaker 1: was the baby face and I was highly you had
Speaker 1: to go down. Seriously, I have no real I have
Speaker 1: a band. I have a band called the Foreign Exchange,
Speaker 1: and we're seriously considered doing a night where we perform
Speaker 1: our songs in your voice and call ourselves the for McDonald's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like all of us come out with beards like
Speaker 1: we all even the girls like to scary, but I'm
Speaker 1: for it. Was there a moment when you realize, because
Speaker 1: I know we always talk about like blue eyed soul
Speaker 1: and whatnot, But was there a moment when you realize,
Speaker 1: like I'm in an elite type club of I can
Speaker 1: go here, there, do the air and everywhere when it
Speaker 1: comes to you know, soul music and pop music and
Speaker 1: whatever else you chose to do. But at least you know,
Speaker 1: like you know, it's very few things that have like
Speaker 1: the black community in their pocket. Yeah, you like be
Speaker 1: want to steal you away. We'll take you in the trade.
Speaker 1: You know, it's um. You know for me to me,
Speaker 1: it's it's that American, the truly American uh music, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, I don't know that there really is any
Speaker 1: other besides jazz, you know, any other really truly American music.
Speaker 1: You know. It's funny how so much of our culture
Speaker 1: is uh uh for the problems that this country seems
Speaker 1: to suffer from in terms of racial tensions. And uh.
Speaker 1: It always reminds me the conversations my wife and I
Speaker 1: have when she says, you know, we haven't talked in months,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm worried about us, you know, and
Speaker 1: I say something brilliant like, well, you know, you know
Speaker 1: I have to go cut the grass right now, So
Speaker 1: why are you bringing I think I feel like I
Speaker 1: didn't grasp you know. It's like that's how we talk
Speaker 1: to each other in this society, you know, rather than
Speaker 1: because we don't. It's uncomfortable and we don't want to
Speaker 1: talk about it, you know, when really that would solve everything,
Speaker 1: you know, Uh, if we really truly just talked about it.
Speaker 1: You know. Uh, there are a few that can lead
Speaker 1: a conversation like you can, because like I said, you
Speaker 1: are loved by everybody. Well, you know, I thank you.
Speaker 1: That's very sweety to say, I, you know, you have
Speaker 1: to talk to my wife on that one. That's true,
Speaker 1: but you know it's um for me. I I've often thought,
Speaker 1: you know, how much of our culture are from in
Speaker 1: food and fashion, certainly music and any real form of
Speaker 1: art in this country is largely African American influenced. You know,
Speaker 1: that is uh, one of the biggest influences on American culture.
Speaker 1: There is, you know, more than anything. You know, if
Speaker 1: you think of French food, you categorize it automatically as
Speaker 1: French food or Italian food. You know, when you think of, uh,
Speaker 1: what is largely African American influenced food, It's American, it's barbecue,
Speaker 1: it's it's uh, you know, just forget the root right exactly,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's we accept it as totally
Speaker 1: as American. You know. Uh, hopefully in our lifetime we
Speaker 1: will see a country where we understand who we are.
Speaker 1: We go forward. Then we got to stop the episode.
Speaker 1: Oh no, um, just how is that? Because they were
Speaker 1: like making fun of you in the movie. But it was,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was funny, but that kind of you
Speaker 1: were Yeah, no, no, it was it was My friend
Speaker 1: actually worked on that film. Is that he was the
Speaker 1: music guy on that film, and he would send me,
Speaker 1: uh like dailies or whatever scripts, you know, and it
Speaker 1: rewrites that he goes this, okay, and some of the
Speaker 1: stuff they didn't put in it. It was hilarious but brutal,
Speaker 1: but hilarious, you know. And uh and so in the
Speaker 1: end it was really like the the nicer version of all.
Speaker 1: But it was. I thought it was hilarious, you know.
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, again, my kids always enjoyed that,
Speaker 1: you know, they enjoyed rubbing my nose and anything like that,
Speaker 1: you know, the family guy whatever. You know. Okay, this
Speaker 1: this is my last cauation. I know you Okay, what
Speaker 1: were your thoughts on Michael Bolton because I thought he
Speaker 1: was kind of trying to I thought he was kind
Speaker 1: of trying to a little bit. No, No, I'll love
Speaker 1: Michael boat. Whatever is only one. Yeah, we recognize. So
Speaker 1: what does want to do? This show? I think you
Speaker 1: should do. I don't want to have it more, but
Speaker 1: I think he's I mean, okay. The first time I
Speaker 1: I did a gig with Michael Bolton was a local
Speaker 1: thing in Santa Barbara and Kenny Kenny's charity that we
Speaker 1: would all do and uh, Kenny Logan said to me,
Speaker 1: because this cat is serious, you know he is he
Speaker 1: is uh. He sings like we wish we could sing.
Speaker 1: And I writes from the school of Ray. But who
Speaker 1: who are you know? I mean, he's he's he's trying
Speaker 1: to channel Ray. Who is there anyone that you're trying
Speaker 1: to channel? The closest I can think of maybe Sarah
Speaker 1: Boon like who ah, you know, because you do have
Speaker 1: an original voice that I can't trace. The genesis thanks,
Speaker 1: you know. For me, really, it's just, um, I try
Speaker 1: to do the best with what I got, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. That's that's really what it comes down to.
Speaker 1: I I uh, I've always I've never really uh had
Speaker 1: the confidence as a singer per se as far as
Speaker 1: chops and you know technique, you know that let's get
Speaker 1: to the thunder No no, no, I mean serious, I
Speaker 1: I uh. And as I get older, especially, I think
Speaker 1: you know, you got to kind of follow your voice
Speaker 1: with the years. You know, you kind of you know, what,
Speaker 1: what's the what's my strength at this point? You know,
Speaker 1: and you kind of kind of go with that. I
Speaker 1: but all those singers that you mentioned are all part
Speaker 1: of my psyche, you know, growing up, and you know,
Speaker 1: I I think when the Motown record was presented to me,
Speaker 1: my first thought was, why are they asking me to
Speaker 1: do this? You know, they came to you to do
Speaker 1: the cover. But I remember the next thought was you
Speaker 1: better say yes, You'll be sorry. And and secondly, I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, I have sung these songs in bars for
Speaker 1: so many years, doing my best to emulate Marvin Gay
Speaker 1: or David Ruffin or whoever, trying to kind of, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: grab the spirit of their vocal, you know, because that
Speaker 1: was the whole thing about being a bar band, if
Speaker 1: you could sound like the record, you know, so growing
Speaker 1: up doing that, I thought I should be able to
Speaker 1: kind of bring something to this project that just reliving
Speaker 1: my own experiences of first learning those songs and learning
Speaker 1: to sing when I was you know, much younger, you know,
Speaker 1: oh man, before we before it. While you for the
Speaker 1: others that record, I want to hear those guys play
Speaker 1: here in Manhattan. And it was amazing, you know. They
Speaker 1: were a really interesting band, you know, had an incredible following,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, and uh it was I had already
Speaker 1: done the record with him, and I really wasn't that
Speaker 1: aware of their overall society, but the sharing him live.
Speaker 1: I was really impressed. What made you do the record man?
Speaker 1: That you weren't that familiar with them? Um? Like, what
Speaker 1: makes Michael McDonald say yes the song? Had? They had
Speaker 1: approached me through management, and when they played the song
Speaker 1: for me, I just like, it just appealed to me
Speaker 1: that he had a you know, um, a musicality about
Speaker 1: it that I wanted to be a part of, you know,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to kind of lend myself to if
Speaker 1: if possible. And the fact that it was singing backgrounds
Speaker 1: um where I might have shied away from it as
Speaker 1: a piano player or something, you know, figuring out I
Speaker 1: wouldn't know what to play or whatever. But as a vocalist,
Speaker 1: they had probably they had pretty much spelled out what
Speaker 1: they wanted me to do, and so I was as
Speaker 1: kind of curious as they were about how I would
Speaker 1: sound on it, you know. And so were you throwing
Speaker 1: up with Thundercat's call? That was one hearing that Nobody's
Speaker 1: all coming Yeah? No, Uh, that was Kenny. I have
Speaker 1: to get Kenny credit on that, because both he and
Speaker 1: my kids are huge fans of Steve's you know, and
Speaker 1: they love Thundercat and uh, when he did that interview
Speaker 1: and he mentioned Kenny and I, Kenny's son called him
Speaker 1: and said, you know, dad, you know Thundercat mentioned you
Speaker 1: in an interview is an influence. And Kenny got right
Speaker 1: on that. And you know, contacted. As long as an
Speaker 1: artist has an animal name and sounds cool, yeah, you
Speaker 1: do nothing. You know. My daughter is my great source
Speaker 1: of what's going on today. She plays me, you know,
Speaker 1: we take car trips. And she went to Coachella with
Speaker 1: me when I played with Thundercat there and and it
Speaker 1: was a whole weekend of listening to music with her,
Speaker 1: which I love. I really enjoyed. You know, you made
Speaker 1: her life. I'm sure she kept me up late to that.
Speaker 1: We were there till the week hours. And you know,
Speaker 1: in bands, I'm sorry, but you and Kenny's kids in bands. Uh,
Speaker 1: well his son was a singer. My son's and at
Speaker 1: in a band, and that my daughter doesn't do it.
Speaker 1: She's but she's got a beautiful voice, but she doesn't
Speaker 1: want to sing professionally, you know, But but she loves music.
Speaker 1: She's a big music fan. And he told me that
Speaker 1: because I thought that we were just going to have
Speaker 1: to explain who we were, Like, Okay, so we're banned
Speaker 1: from Phillyda and you're like, yeah, I know you guys.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know we were thrown off. But through her,
Speaker 1: I've I've actually become more increasingly aware of what's going
Speaker 1: on around me. But that's awesome. Uh I I get it.
Speaker 1: I got the part, be their part. What's who is
Speaker 1: mo Austin Boston. That's the perfect intent of the show.
Speaker 1: Michael McDonald, We thank you for coming, Thanks for having
Speaker 1: this dream become Dren, Thank you man for real. Shout
Speaker 1: out to my sister Dawn for put me onto Michael McDonald.
Speaker 1: She would kill me if I didn't mention that fact
Speaker 1: of the world that that's how I'll discover to you
Speaker 1: anyway on behalf of Boss Bill and pay Bill Fontagelo,
Speaker 1: Sugar Steve and It's Layah and the great Michael McDonald.
Speaker 1: This is quest Low Sliding Off Mexico. Thank What's Love,
Speaker 1: Suprene is a production of My Heart Radio. This classic
Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.