Speaker 1: Question Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: Man Royce. Yeah, I was gonna say. Also, uh, he's
Speaker 1: been acting with Teddy Wilson and at least three films.
Speaker 1: So I gotta get pay, pay and place Julia. That's
Speaker 1: all I'm saying. All right, I'm just bringing I think
Speaker 1: between all of us will give me his career got
Speaker 1: to cover ye y'all? Wow, Hello, Legend, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Colonel taylor Son? What It's great? All right, ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: please welcome to an another episode of Question of Supreme.
Speaker 1: Supreme Teams in the house, all of us here and
Speaker 1: unpaid Bill Royce to the building. Ready for each of
Speaker 1: us in this room, we're gonna have like are our
Speaker 1: memories of our guest today? Um find Tacolo you cool? Yeah, man, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm cool as that could be with the Legend and
Speaker 1: I know let's ste questions. Cool. You're good to see everybody.
Speaker 1: Nice to see you, sir. Yes, and yeah is also
Speaker 1: with us. I am overjoyed over we already met. This
Speaker 1: is special. Now you got your helm and on no
Speaker 1: I see Hilman on sir. Okay, So I'll say that, Um,
Speaker 1: you know our our guest today. Uh, beyond super legend.
Speaker 1: I mean I personally grew up watching his entire cannon,
Speaker 1: even if I didn't know I was watching him. But
Speaker 1: he's literally been practically almost in every movie that I
Speaker 1: was allowed to watch, which speaks highly of his his
Speaker 1: his choice of film. Uh. This man is sixty years
Speaker 1: of acting, uh under his belt on all mediums, movies,
Speaker 1: television plays. Um, I mean if I name them, all
Speaker 1: will be here forever. I mean Raising his Sun, Julia
Speaker 1: Room two, my Squad, the White Shadow, Yeah, COOLi High
Speaker 1: Peyton Place, all the Black ABC After Schools special je Uh,
Speaker 1: you know a different work. I'd see it had one
Speaker 1: g and you know that right. I heard Jamie Foxx
Speaker 1: say that one day. Just made me laugh. I'm sorry. Uh.
Speaker 1: Of course, our our White contingency definitely knows him from
Speaker 1: the wire, you know, currently riding high now on is
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, nomination of How to Get Away with
Speaker 1: Murder currently giving us a two fer in Fargo. In fact,
Speaker 1: doctor Senator, doctor Senator his birth name Doctor Senator, I
Speaker 1: love Love you know, not to be all done in
Speaker 1: the In the historical telling of my Rainy's uh ulestious
Speaker 1: career as a as a pioneer and my Rainy's black bottom.
Speaker 1: H Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Quest Love Supreme
Speaker 1: the one and only Glenn Turman. Yes, thank you very
Speaker 1: much for that wonderful introduction, my brother, Man, I grow up,
Speaker 1: I wonna be like you. Look how kicked back you up?
Speaker 1: I'm just you know this, you know, I just relaxing
Speaker 1: with friends. I know, I know, I know we usually
Speaker 1: do this chronological thing, but it will it would be forever,
Speaker 1: so I think this is gonna be more rapid fire.
Speaker 1: So I will go first. You know, I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: a particular period. I know that you're a Harlem Knight.
Speaker 1: Uh correct, you were born in Harlem, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: and I've heard a lot from uh Nina Simone, James Baldwin,
Speaker 1: but I never got to hear any personal tales of
Speaker 1: the great Lorraine Huntsberry. And um, I know that she
Speaker 1: cast you at at a young age and raising in
Speaker 1: the sun. So and I think the way she cast
Speaker 1: you was very casual. It wasn't like you had, you know,
Speaker 1: these goals to be an actor. Can you just explain
Speaker 1: to me, like, what was it like in that environment
Speaker 1: growing up with those those giants as as as a
Speaker 1: young person looking at them. Well, you know, I was
Speaker 1: born in Harlem but raised in Greenwage Village. So my mother,
Speaker 1: a single parent, moved from Harlem, she and I to
Speaker 1: a cold water flat six what they used to call
Speaker 1: cold water flat in Greenag Village in the fifties. And uh,
Speaker 1: that meant that departments were we're literally that there was
Speaker 1: no hot water and you had to walk up five
Speaker 1: flights of six flights of stairs and you had to
Speaker 1: boil your water, you know. And and that was sort
Speaker 1: of the norm of apartments styles in the village at
Speaker 1: that time. And to put people who were predominantly living
Speaker 1: in these these conditions were artists, uh, James Baldwin, Lorrain Handsbury, Smith, Oliver,
Speaker 1: Nina Simone, and all of these people were my mother's contemporaries.
Speaker 1: And there were a few, just a handful of blacks
Speaker 1: in the village at that time, and she was a
Speaker 1: part of this this bohemian sort of click of intellectuals,
Speaker 1: you know. So one day the rain, Uh, my mother said, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, my friend Ms. Handsbury, she's written a play.
Speaker 1: There's a part for a little boy in it. And
Speaker 1: she was wonder it if you might be interested in
Speaker 1: auditioning for the part, but I didn't know what an
Speaker 1: audition was. I had no idea, and uh my mother said, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: if if you get this part, it's gonna be many saturdays.
Speaker 1: So I said, well, I don't know. She said, well,
Speaker 1: let's study the part and we'll go and and meet
Speaker 1: them on this particular date, which I did. And then
Speaker 1: there were a whole bunch of other little kids, black
Speaker 1: boys in the hallway when we got to this office
Speaker 1: up in midtown, and uh, I didn't know what they
Speaker 1: were there for. I didn't know that they were there
Speaker 1: competing for the same role that I was competing for.
Speaker 1: I thought the role was mine, So I couldn't figure
Speaker 1: out what all these other little knuckle heads was doing
Speaker 1: there because my role I read to play. This is
Speaker 1: only one little boy in the play, that's me. So
Speaker 1: what y'all doing here? You know? But I gleared to
Speaker 1: found out what an audition was, that they were all
Speaker 1: we were all there for the same role. But I
Speaker 1: got the role, and uh so there I was in
Speaker 1: show business. That's that's a hell of an entry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you do you have just personal memories of speaking
Speaker 1: with her or interacting with her or well what it was? Yes,
Speaker 1: she she and I. You know, there were a lot
Speaker 1: of games that you played in the streets in those days.
Speaker 1: You didn't have to be in the house all the time.
Speaker 1: When I grew up, you know, there were games that
Speaker 1: you would play, you know, stickball, you know, scot Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that was my game. So sculls ees and so
Speaker 1: on so forth. And Miss Handsbury had a colleague dog,
Speaker 1: and and and she herself was beautiful, She was really pretty.
Speaker 1: And what was that happened was because we were on
Speaker 1: the ground playing scullsies. You know, we're thumping the bottle
Speaker 1: caps or whatever there was was your piece. You know,
Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time down low on the
Speaker 1: ground as kids. But all of a sudden this dog
Speaker 1: would walk through our game, you know, and then these
Speaker 1: beautiful set of legs would walk through the game, and
Speaker 1: without looking up, I would find myself saying hello on
Speaker 1: this hand. She said hello, glad. You know, I'll tell
Speaker 1: your mother this, I'll tell your mother that blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So she was very part of the neighborhood,
Speaker 1: you know, we were It was a neighborhood and we
Speaker 1: were all in this neighborhood. So you know, sometimes I
Speaker 1: said I carried that for you, I carry those groceres
Speaker 1: for you and can home, and she just hit me
Speaker 1: your quarter and so on. So call, you know, everyone
Speaker 1: fighting to get her attention. I see, wait, I do
Speaker 1: have a question for you. You mentioned growing up in Harlem.
Speaker 1: Do you have any memories whatsoever of the Harlem Cultural
Speaker 1: Festival that went on? It was it was a it
Speaker 1: was a concert throwned by a gentleman named Tony Lawrence.
Speaker 1: Uh and this was like nineteen sixty nine. It was
Speaker 1: like Nina Simone Stevie Wonder like, it was all the
Speaker 1: summer of nineteen sixty nine. Do you have any memories
Speaker 1: of I don't. I really don't. I came to California
Speaker 1: and New York, and I've been in California living since
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, so that that particular event I'm not
Speaker 1: necessarily familiar with. UM. What prompted the move to California.
Speaker 1: I came to do a play at a at a
Speaker 1: the company called the Inner City Cultural Center. The Inner
Speaker 1: City Cultural Center was over on Pico and and uh,
Speaker 1: New Hampshire, the East East l A. And it was
Speaker 1: run by a man by the name of see Bernard Jackson,
Speaker 1: and uh, it was a wonderful theater company. It still
Speaker 1: has the still remnants of it now, which I'm still
Speaker 1: a part of. As a matter of fact, we've got
Speaker 1: a zoom thing that we're getting ready to do pretty soon.
Speaker 1: But I came to do a play there, uh called
Speaker 1: Slow Dance on the Killing Ground, which which had been
Speaker 1: done in Broadway in New York Clarence Williams the third
Speaker 1: and I was going to do the West Coast version
Speaker 1: of it. And that brought me here by a woman
Speaker 1: who was a high school teacher of mine at the
Speaker 1: High School Performing Arts which I attended. She brought me
Speaker 1: out here to do that play. Her name was Bennett Carroll,
Speaker 1: and she was one of the first black female directors
Speaker 1: on Broadway, having directed a play Your Arms Are Too
Speaker 1: Short to Box with God Before Your Turn and Raising
Speaker 1: in the Sun. Did you have aspirations too to give
Speaker 1: me a business or to be an actor or was
Speaker 1: it just like something that worked out and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I want to try it again, Like what was that? No?
Speaker 1: I had no obspiration at all, you know, I did
Speaker 1: this thing. My mama told me about it. You say,
Speaker 1: we get to travel, so which we did? You know,
Speaker 1: I was got to go to Chicago and Philly and
Speaker 1: New Hampshire with the play touring before we came into
Speaker 1: New York. Of course, I got to meet all these
Speaker 1: wonderful people Sydney Portier and work with him, Ruby d
Speaker 1: and uh Ivan Dixon and Lou Gossip, you know, all
Speaker 1: these people that were fantastic. And then see some people
Speaker 1: that I knew from the movies like Sammy Davis Jr.
Speaker 1: Earth a kid, or you know, beautiful Dorothy Dandridge. You know.
Speaker 1: So I got to meet all these people that my
Speaker 1: mother and my aunt teas and everybody was like saying,
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. You know,
Speaker 1: but for me it wasn't. I was just a kid,
Speaker 1: so it was it was a big deal, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't a big deal. You know what I'm saying. Kids
Speaker 1: don't really pay a lot of attention to that. So
Speaker 1: when it's so, when it's over, then suddenly it is
Speaker 1: it feeling of emptiness like well, when's the next one?
Speaker 1: Or how can I do this? So I kept I
Speaker 1: I quit the play. I quit the play after a
Speaker 1: year being in it. Sidney Port here they left. I
Speaker 1: left soon after, just to get back to being a
Speaker 1: regular kid, you know and going to my regular high
Speaker 1: school because I was going at that time. They took
Speaker 1: me out of my regular school and put me in
Speaker 1: a children's school, professional school, you know, and I didn't
Speaker 1: like it. You know, all my thug buddies was going
Speaker 1: to a different school. So I was ready for thug
Speaker 1: every one oh one, you know, and I wasn't going
Speaker 1: to get that mace professional children's school, you know. They
Speaker 1: what made you stay that long? I'm curious because you
Speaker 1: mentioned that you weren't like phased by the stars or
Speaker 1: anything else, but you stayed long. It was fun I
Speaker 1: did this, and you know, I was with them. But also,
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, we needed the money. You know,
Speaker 1: my mother was a single parent. She wasn't working at
Speaker 1: the time, you know, and this money came in handy
Speaker 1: to turn the lights back on, you know. So uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it was a practical factor involved as well.
Speaker 1: And once we got on our feet, you know, mom
Speaker 1: said it was okay to leave. We're cool, and uh
Speaker 1: I split, you mentioned, but I kept getting parts. I
Speaker 1: kept getting parts while I was in junior high school.
Speaker 1: Because I had such notoriety as a result of being
Speaker 1: this kid in a Broadway place. So anytime it was
Speaker 1: a little black kid, they kept putting me. I kept
Speaker 1: getting in these different shows, a lot of different television shows,
Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of different stage plays with
Speaker 1: Roy Jones, who was more Marii Baraka. So I worked
Speaker 1: with him with creating some of his early works. I
Speaker 1: worked with James James con Jimmy Cohn, and Robert Redfoot
Speaker 1: in in a TV series, you know, TV special. They
Speaker 1: were lived. It was live television then. And uh, so
Speaker 1: I kept getting in these things, and uh then, uh
Speaker 1: it came time to go to high school. And I
Speaker 1: had a teacher of wood shop teacher, black wood shop
Speaker 1: teacher who said, Terman, what what school you're gonna go to?
Speaker 1: What high school you go? And I said, I'm going
Speaker 1: to high School of Aviations in his design, I'm going
Speaker 1: to become an aviations engineer. You said, Terman, you are
Speaker 1: a chronic truant. You haven't been to a math class
Speaker 1: since in the last three semesters. How do you don't
Speaker 1: have to take a test for aviation and aviation and
Speaker 1: design and you don't know anything about math? You know.
Speaker 1: That's it's all mad. I said, that's okay. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: take the test and I'll pass it. He said, well,
Speaker 1: look there's a school called the High School Performing Arts.
Speaker 1: It's now called the Guardia And uh, I said, he said,
Speaker 1: why don't you audition for that school? They do acting
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. That's O no, no, no, no no,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. I'm going to Aviation and design,
Speaker 1: you know. And he said. They said, he said, well
Speaker 1: do this take the test and the audition. Well I
Speaker 1: failed the test, like he knew I would audition. What
Speaker 1: was what was the school like back in I'm assuming
Speaker 1: this is the mid sixties or late sixties. Yea, early sixties,
Speaker 1: early yeah, Like I like, I've attended the Performing Arts school,
Speaker 1: but in the late eighties or nineties. Um, But what
Speaker 1: was the curriculum like back then? Like was it diverse?
Speaker 1: The Guardias now when I think fifty nine Streets some
Speaker 1: thing like that and the tenth Avenue. But then Performing
Speaker 1: Arts which the movie Fame was made about. And actually
Speaker 1: that was my graduating class that they made that movie about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, and that that school was on forty sixth
Speaker 1: Street between six and seventh Avenue, so it was right
Speaker 1: in the heart of Broadway. So there I was again
Speaker 1: in the middle of Broadway, you know where I had
Speaker 1: been as a as a as a kid, all those
Speaker 1: all that time, and I ended up becoming top of
Speaker 1: the class and I got I got an A for
Speaker 1: the first time ever in school. I got all these
Speaker 1: great marks and graduated vice president of my senior class
Speaker 1: and won only awards and all that, and so find
Speaker 1: I said when I kept in the A that first semester,
Speaker 1: I came home and I said, Mom, look I got
Speaker 1: an eight. And she said, yeah, well, I've been trying
Speaker 1: to tell you, you know, you need to go. So
Speaker 1: she wanted it for you even more than you yourself.
Speaker 1: But that was always a ham. You know, I'm always
Speaker 1: a kid. You know you got a cousin or maybe
Speaker 1: it's you. You know that you've got a kid that
Speaker 1: on the holidays or the party, the house party or whatever.
Speaker 1: When you were a kid, you know, your folks would
Speaker 1: call you, come on and sing a song, come on
Speaker 1: out and dance, come on out and do this. Come on.
Speaker 1: I was always that kid. You know you mentioned you
Speaker 1: went you since fame was based off of your class,
Speaker 1: where there are some peers that came out with you.
Speaker 1: Remember there was a black kid in that movie Fame
Speaker 1: Leroy that was ben Verene shot up. Yes, so remember
Speaker 1: was a troubled uh, the troubled child that was talented.
Speaker 1: And still we're all troubled children. But Ben and I
Speaker 1: close to this day, we've been buddies ever since we've
Speaker 1: been roommates. And the whole thing. A matter of fact,
Speaker 1: what's crazy is we interviewed the woman, the woman who
Speaker 1: taught him how to dance. Her grandson became like the
Speaker 1: legendary rapper because when she used to dance in the
Speaker 1: Cotton Club, it's like a whole circle. Remember you'all prodigy
Speaker 1: Denverne how to Yeah, I was sorry, but that's just
Speaker 1: that's dope. Okay, Okay, I'm gonna push it up a
Speaker 1: little bit because again, your your career sprawls decades, and
Speaker 1: you know, we got to cover everything. And then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna let you'all take it away after do this question
Speaker 1: because I know you'll got questions too. But I just
Speaker 1: want to say that in retrospect, I guess uh Preach
Speaker 1: was was maybe the first black nerd I've ever seen
Speaker 1: on media screen. So maybe because the thing is is
Speaker 1: that when all my friends watch COOLi High, they all
Speaker 1: related to coaches and for me, but she goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I related to preach, you know. I mean I didn't
Speaker 1: see myself as a nerd back then, but I mean
Speaker 1: obviously I was more preached than I was whole past. No, man,
Speaker 1: I'm fun out. It was just no, it was it
Speaker 1: was important. It was important for me to see that
Speaker 1: even though I guess in real time I didn't see
Speaker 1: that as a seed being planted, but I definitely knew
Speaker 1: that watching that character um and kind of the cheapest
Speaker 1: way that he didn't want people to know that he
Speaker 1: was that smart. Like, especially when you have to survive
Speaker 1: in the area that you grow up, you know, you
Speaker 1: don't want people to think that you're weak or anything.
Speaker 1: So you're trying to over commentate whatever. But can you
Speaker 1: just talk about like just working with Michael Schultz and
Speaker 1: that whole like as coolly High, as iconic to you
Speaker 1: as it is to us, or you are you tired
Speaker 1: of everyone like making anything deal over? No? Actually, uh,
Speaker 1: it is one of my favorite movies. Even if I
Speaker 1: wasn't in it, the fact that I am in it
Speaker 1: makes it one of my favorite movies that I've been in. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a terrific movie. And because it takes it talks
Speaker 1: about just what and exposes just what you're talking about,
Speaker 1: a side of us that very few so especially at
Speaker 1: the time when exploitation movies are being made, because they're
Speaker 1: all the all the characters with pimps or players or
Speaker 1: tough guys or gangster has been so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, here you are in the
Speaker 1: neighborhood and the gangsters are not the star of the movie.
Speaker 1: A nerd is the star of the movie. You know.
Speaker 1: It gave us a chance to expose that some of
Speaker 1: the York and Earns, you know, how do I stay
Speaker 1: smart and stay uh cool? So you know. Uh so
Speaker 1: he was indeed a cool nerd, you know, and that's
Speaker 1: that's what we that's what he turned out to be.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it was interesting that that
Speaker 1: our culture, which was my culture, we used to hit
Speaker 1: you on the back of the buses, you know, jump
Speaker 1: the turnstiles, uh, ditch class to ditch class of Hollyway
Speaker 1: ever went to the class, you know, and so all
Speaker 1: of those and spend time after zoo while waiting you know,
Speaker 1: to for school to be over so we can go
Speaker 1: back and get our books and do whatever. All of
Speaker 1: that was my culture, you know, and uh, we had
Speaker 1: never seen that on the screen before. Now the fact
Speaker 1: that forty five years later there are still for decades
Speaker 1: of of people, youngsters who grow up watching that movie.
Speaker 1: That's the prizes me, you know, because I still have
Speaker 1: you know, young teenagers will come up and say, oh,
Speaker 1: you preach, you know, I said, you you watch Coony
Speaker 1: high Man, you know, So that's that that surprises me.
Speaker 1: So no, I did not and we did not expect
Speaker 1: it to be the iconic film that it turned out
Speaker 1: to be. But a lot of that has to do
Speaker 1: with Michael Schultz and Steve Krantz, who was a producer,
Speaker 1: Michael Schultz of course the director, and of course Eric
Speaker 1: Monte who wrote the piece. They did something that was brilliant.
Speaker 1: There's a start. There's a star in the movie that
Speaker 1: no one notices. Of course, there's myself, and there's launch
Speaker 1: Hilton Jacobs and Garrett Morris and Steven Williams and and
Speaker 1: uh people uh who were acting in the movie. But
Speaker 1: there's also a movie a music score that you couldn't
Speaker 1: pay for it today, before the Town, Greatest Motown score Motown. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was about to say, before the Big Chill. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: before the Big Chill. Music is a star of the movie.
Speaker 1: You know, it's one of the stars, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: you couldn't you couldn't buy that now for a more
Speaker 1: emotion picture, you know, too expensive. I was watching an
Speaker 1: interview you did. It was some years back, and you
Speaker 1: were talking about that period in your career where you know,
Speaker 1: the the industry and kind of Hollywood. They were calling
Speaker 1: it black exploitation. But I always admired what you said.
Speaker 1: You said, you know, to y'all it was black exploitation.
Speaker 1: To me, it was just work, you know, like we were,
Speaker 1: we were just working, you know, And so I was,
Speaker 1: you know, curious just to know, like, just with all
Speaker 1: your career, all your years in the game, you know,
Speaker 1: how has your view on those movies changed? You know, like,
Speaker 1: you know, do you still just see this just work
Speaker 1: or do you think that there were some larger implications
Speaker 1: around those kind of films. No, I see it as work,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, expectation. Yeah, you can look at it
Speaker 1: like that, you know, but a lot of good came
Speaker 1: out of it. A lot of progress came out of it,
Speaker 1: you know, and it fed families, you know, because it
Speaker 1: gave us an opportunity to work. The only problem was
Speaker 1: that it most of the time, it was a one
Speaker 1: sided uh view of who we were as a people
Speaker 1: who when those things opened up, those views opened up.
Speaker 1: And especially now, I'm so proud of what what the
Speaker 1: young people you guys are doing now in terms of
Speaker 1: bringing forth projects that show more dimensions of our experience
Speaker 1: and who we are. You know, That's what our fight
Speaker 1: was about back then, you know, That's what we went
Speaker 1: to head office about. That's what we lost jobs about.
Speaker 1: That's how we you know, got fired by speaking up
Speaker 1: about you know, this character doesn't have a backstory, or
Speaker 1: this character is one dimensional. Why doesn't has happened? Why
Speaker 1: does this woman have to do this there that? You know.
Speaker 1: So those were the battles that we were facing. But
Speaker 1: and to see what you guys are doing now with
Speaker 1: with your opportunities in terms of taking advantage of the
Speaker 1: changing tide, uh is heartwarming for me, you know, because
Speaker 1: it's been a long haul. Yeah, well, we wouldn't be
Speaker 1: there without y'all. I was about to say, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: How how difficult. Is that particular Hollywood shuffle where you
Speaker 1: kind of have to wrestle between your dignity and a
Speaker 1: good paycheck. Because there's there's one particular film that isn't
Speaker 1: often listed in your your credits that I saw. Now
Speaker 1: in two thousand, I did a film with Spike Lee
Speaker 1: called Bamboozle about menstrual culture. And when Spike was first
Speaker 1: pitching us this film, the first thing he did was
Speaker 1: he came to our studio and he was like, all right,
Speaker 1: A need three hours. I'm gonna show you this movie.
Speaker 1: And he puts in, uh, this movie from seventy seven
Speaker 1: called minstrel Man, And basically, like Spike Lee just gave
Speaker 1: us a crash course on the entire history of menstrul entertainment.
Speaker 1: And um, you know the thing that was Spike was
Speaker 1: like this movie has been banned. You can't see you nowhere.
Speaker 1: You like he had the pool strings to get this from,
Speaker 1: like you know who whatever company had or whoever like
Speaker 1: one of the producers was. But yeah, I've watched that
Speaker 1: film like three times and even now then when I
Speaker 1: did the film, you know, I thought, okay, well Spike
Speaker 1: saying this is a satire, but you know, I was
Speaker 1: kind of in that naive place where I thought like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're in a post racial part of
Speaker 1: you know, where it's two thousands, there's a new leaf
Speaker 1: in Dada da da, And sure enough, Uh, we've eased
Speaker 1: back into probably even worse a need while I called
Speaker 1: neo menstrul cy, But at the time, what made you
Speaker 1: want to do such a daring film about the history
Speaker 1: of menstrul entertainment? And why was it not exposed? Even
Speaker 1: when you're on your Wikipedia page, it's not even mentioned. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's one of its It's one of my favorite pieces.
Speaker 1: Uh menstrumn It was daring, It was a revolutionary film,
Speaker 1: and it paid hommage two we as performance. Somebody had
Speaker 1: to bite the bullets, and these these performance been the bullet.
Speaker 1: You know, I met step and Fetch It, Mr Perry
Speaker 1: when I was doing Cooley High. You're you're all familiar
Speaker 1: with the Step and Fetch It. Yes, who did more
Speaker 1: in terms of really putting an image out there that
Speaker 1: really hurt us as a as a as a people.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, the reason in her is
Speaker 1: because he was so brilliant at what it was that
Speaker 1: he was doing. His performance capabilities were astounding, just like W. C. Fields,
Speaker 1: just just like um uh you know any of those
Speaker 1: great um comedians of those of that time, you know,
Speaker 1: Buster Keaton, all those guys. But he took it on
Speaker 1: himself to give you an interpretation of what was thought
Speaker 1: about us. In other words, he took the he took
Speaker 1: the narrative of somebody some other cultures describing us, and
Speaker 1: though it wasn't true, he in visualized it. It was detrimental,
Speaker 1: but it was brilliant. It is really brilliant, so much
Speaker 1: so that it it honors an entire race of people.
Speaker 1: And for that he became the highest, one of the
Speaker 1: highest staid actors in Hollywood. So there's that double edged
Speaker 1: sword of as a performer, as an artist, what do
Speaker 1: we do? What are we about? And what do we do?
Speaker 1: And how do we select what we do? So I
Speaker 1: saw this film as a film that tried to explain
Speaker 1: that what do we do? We're brilliant people, how do
Speaker 1: we make what we have work for us? And what's
Speaker 1: too much? You know, when do we stop? When do
Speaker 1: we stop? When do we not say okay? When do
Speaker 1: we say that's enough? And we still have it to
Speaker 1: this day. It's not like on the way you think
Speaker 1: it was different when it was only like one or
Speaker 1: two of us, and now that that's changed a little,
Speaker 1: maybe that space has changed, because when it's only one
Speaker 1: of us representing everybody, then of course we're like, no,
Speaker 1: there was always a lot. That's why you should see
Speaker 1: the still instrument. Okay, okay, I do I wrote it down.
Speaker 1: I am if I can where where can I see?
Speaker 1: Where can I see? And I believe it's still on YouTube.
Speaker 1: It might be on YouTube. You know, it's funny, it's weird.
Speaker 1: You said that because, um, maybe like four years ago
Speaker 1: I went on a deep dive about the whole menstrual
Speaker 1: culture and someone had a different perspective of step and
Speaker 1: fetch It and which he said that, um, the one
Speaker 1: weapon that black people could use against racism and white
Speaker 1: supremacy at that time was was humor. And so he
Speaker 1: saw step and Fetch It less as like a you know,
Speaker 1: if people were saying like, well, he's not a credit
Speaker 1: to his race or a sellout, but more on the
Speaker 1: terms of he discovered a way that this arm uh
Speaker 1: powerful white people at the time using humor because on
Speaker 1: the other hand, stepping would also take his money and
Speaker 1: start funding like these black Shakespearean plays, like he would
Speaker 1: use his his money that he made for movies and
Speaker 1: then really start a revolution by you know, Paul Robins
Speaker 1: and stuff and and that sort of thing. And so
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's kind of a double edged
Speaker 1: sword where I guess now you could just say that's
Speaker 1: just what we call code switching, whereas you know, Stepping
Speaker 1: was the original code switcher. But um, yeah, I wish,
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of wish that that film could
Speaker 1: come out of it's retirement. I mean at the time,
Speaker 1: was it at the time, at the time when you
Speaker 1: shocked that well, I mean kind of I assume that
Speaker 1: it wasn't well received, so it's thrown like sort of underground.
Speaker 1: It was well received, that was the problem. It was
Speaker 1: too well received, received for the wrong reasons. But for
Speaker 1: the wrong reasons. Yeah, well it was you know, it
Speaker 1: was all of a sudden people got a conscious about
Speaker 1: what they thought we should be showing, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: it's suffer the faith that it suffered, you know, and
Speaker 1: I'm very sorry that it did, very sorry that it
Speaker 1: did well. Yeah, I still recommend people see it, you know,
Speaker 1: because it really especially uh remember one part in which
Speaker 1: in the very beginning of the film where they explained that,
Speaker 1: you know, when African American actors wanted to act, they
Speaker 1: had to act like the white people imitating black people.
Speaker 1: And then that's when I realized how meta that was? That? Oh,
Speaker 1: that that was okay. So that was the whole point
Speaker 1: of Mr Entertainment, that we were imitating those who were
Speaker 1: imitating those beating us, imitating us and terrorizing us. Hey,
Speaker 1: can you settle something? Is it true that I heard
Speaker 1: that you were supposed to be the original Han Solo
Speaker 1: in Star Wars? Yeah? Yeah? Uh what happened? So when
Speaker 1: who does who does Han Solo have a love affair with?
Speaker 1: Couldn't be kids on a white woman? Well, what's right?
Speaker 1: I know. George Lucas was like, I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: live out my fantasies. Yeah, but he says, he says,
Speaker 1: that's what the problem was. He is that that was
Speaker 1: that was what he didn't want to open the canopies
Speaker 1: in that that area, and so that's what stopped him
Speaker 1: from going, uh down that path, you know. And I
Speaker 1: asked him, I finally I asked I had a chance
Speaker 1: that I ran into him at h at Sam Jackson's
Speaker 1: party a couple of years ago, and he and his
Speaker 1: wife were there and I hadn't seen him since that day,
Speaker 1: you know those times. And uh so I stepped up
Speaker 1: to him and asked him. I said, man, I'm ready,
Speaker 1: you were thinking about me for hot solo. He says, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. I've said he didn't do it, because he says, yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go down there, as I understand,
Speaker 1: I understand, I love that didn't do it because yeah,
Speaker 1: I ain't want that Smoking eighty two, but I wanted that.
Speaker 1: But howsing forward owes me some money because he that
Speaker 1: was he cleaned up on that on on that Star
Speaker 1: Wars thing. I showed it like to get my my
Speaker 1: percentage of yeah, because that was before it's all. It's
Speaker 1: all good, no problems, I got no regrets. One of
Speaker 1: your films I wanted to ask you about that is
Speaker 1: like a classic in hip hop. And I don't even
Speaker 1: know if you're aware you maybe but j D's Revenge,
Speaker 1: um Man, j D's Revenge. I didn't see the movie.
Speaker 1: I didn't see it until I mean prep maybe around
Speaker 1: like yeah, like two thousands and so around. I bought
Speaker 1: the DVD, but it was sampled in a ghost Face
Speaker 1: Killer Woutane Clan album and so when we figured out
Speaker 1: that's what it was like allowed me and a lot
Speaker 1: of my homies, a lot of hip hop cats. We
Speaker 1: ended up getting that movie and watching it and I
Speaker 1: actually still have it on DVD right now. But what
Speaker 1: do you remember, if anything, Snoop's favorite movie really? Yeah,
Speaker 1: four Bus Classic Classes, Yeah, those that period of your career. Um,
Speaker 1: what do you remember about shooting like movies like that,
Speaker 1: Like you know, j D's Revenge, these movies that were,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of low budget and but they were entertaining.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know at Joe j D's Revenge and
Speaker 1: also uh, Penitentiary to the movie I had no business
Speaker 1: seeing as like a six year old, but I wasiary.
Speaker 1: Come on, what was it like? Because that movie was insane?
Speaker 1: And like, but what was it? What was it like
Speaker 1: working on it? It was insane working on that, you know.
Speaker 1: You know, first of all, you know, we shot it in
Speaker 1: in the Allege. You know, oh wow, that was the
Speaker 1: first time I had been to the Orleans. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm shooting a movie where as a character, I've got
Speaker 1: to be possessed, you know, So I'm coming in and
Speaker 1: out of these possessions and you know, anything about artis
Speaker 1: that's real now, man, that's the way that goes down. Man.
Speaker 1: And being a young actor at the time, I was,
Speaker 1: you know, as I still am, but especially back then,
Speaker 1: I was all about going for the reality of things,
Speaker 1: you know, and going I had to go to deliver,
Speaker 1: you know, and without any filters, you know, so I
Speaker 1: uh went on quite on quite a ride down there,
Speaker 1: you know, and doing that. It was it was the
Speaker 1: hell of it was, you know, because, uh, the city
Speaker 1: itself was such a character in the film. You know,
Speaker 1: they're gargoyles and all of their architecture, you know, so
Speaker 1: there's always something looking at you, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: it was a hell of it was a hell of
Speaker 1: an experience. Hey. You know, of of the what I
Speaker 1: call the the seventies squad of young black actors who
Speaker 1: later in the eighties sort of elevated themselves to directors
Speaker 1: and producers, I know that, Um it was. It was
Speaker 1: a big deal when like Kevin Hooks sort of like
Speaker 1: left the white shadow and became a director. Um, I
Speaker 1: know that in you directed, like dynasty was a religion
Speaker 1: and my grandmother's household, like all my aunts everyone Dynasty.
Speaker 1: So you're how how um was that your first foray
Speaker 1: into directing most television? Yes it was, Yes, it was.
Speaker 1: So what what prompted uh that particularly leap as far
Speaker 1: as you getting into directing show is a is a
Speaker 1: interesting multi headed beast. The movie we spoke about minstrel
Speaker 1: Man MHM ran into all sorts of stumbling blocks, as
Speaker 1: as you noted, Ques. But one of the one of
Speaker 1: the wonderful things that came out of it was a
Speaker 1: relationship that I formed with the authors of that piece,
Speaker 1: the Shapiro's, Richard and Esther Shapiro, wonderful, wonderful, talented, talented people.
Speaker 1: They wrote minstrel Man, and they cast me in minstrel Man,
Speaker 1: and during the course of our knowing one another, they
Speaker 1: developed um Dynasty, oh Dynasty. And then talking with conversation,
Speaker 1: Glenn was next on your agenda, what do you what
Speaker 1: do you see yourself? I said, I see myself directing.
Speaker 1: I had to have been directing some plays at the
Speaker 1: Inner City Cultural Center that I spoke of earlier, and
Speaker 1: they said really, I said, yeah, you know, she said, well,
Speaker 1: we're putting in a program for directors. We want more
Speaker 1: minority directors to come and be a part of this.
Speaker 1: I said, count me in, and so I shadowed one
Speaker 1: of the directors for months and months and months and
Speaker 1: finally gave me my shot. Oh. I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: mentioned that because most more more people don't talk about
Speaker 1: all these programs that are available, especially for minorities that
Speaker 1: are able to do that. It's a lot of networks
Speaker 1: in places that do that. I'm just as people to
Speaker 1: listen to us. I want you to know you should
Speaker 1: look into that because that's still something really popular. Glenn,
Speaker 1: do you still audition? No, ma'am, So when's the last
Speaker 1: time you did? I just I just okay. Then I'm
Speaker 1: I'm getting myself together on my question. Um when I'm
Speaker 1: just curious, when was the last time that you did? Oh?
Speaker 1: Roll yeah, okay, don roll yeah? Ship last time I auditioned?
Speaker 1: Last time? Did I check? It was for a Tom
Speaker 1: Cruise movie and it maybe you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: how many years ago. I knew that after I came
Speaker 1: out of that audition that I would never audition again.
Speaker 1: M speaking, and I told that to my to my agents,
Speaker 1: I said, I'll never auditioned again. I'm trying to do
Speaker 1: the math on this. Do you remember this was in
Speaker 1: the nineties, the two thousands, because that just means that
Speaker 1: I just don't know how many people just called you
Speaker 1: and said, I got a roll, let's go like that's
Speaker 1: just was in the nine days. What made you? What
Speaker 1: make what about that process? Made you make that decision?
Speaker 1: Because I realized I knew who I knew, they knew
Speaker 1: who they wanted for the role. So I was going
Speaker 1: through an exercise that I didn't tend to go through
Speaker 1: anymore in my career. At that time. I had, I
Speaker 1: had paid my dues and uh so it came a
Speaker 1: time for me to stand on that principle and luckily
Speaker 1: it's turned out well. You know, and I have nothing
Speaker 1: against auditioning. You know, your your audition if you feel
Speaker 1: that that's what's gonna help you get the role as
Speaker 1: a as an actor actress, go for the audition. But
Speaker 1: after but if it gets to a point where it's
Speaker 1: it's sours what you're in this for, it starts taking
Speaker 1: away any of the joy that you're doing this, and
Speaker 1: it's it's contaminating your process, and you have to make
Speaker 1: a decision because then the joy and the fun is
Speaker 1: being taken out of and that's what I got into
Speaker 1: this for. As you see, it just kept coming to me.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't in it for money, you know. I
Speaker 1: was in it because it was afforded to me and
Speaker 1: I found that I could do something that I ended
Speaker 1: up loving doing. So why subject myself to something that,
Speaker 1: at that stage of the game was making it was
Speaker 1: ruining the love affair. I refused to have them ruin
Speaker 1: the love affair. You're already thirty years that anyway, you Yeah,
Speaker 1: Keith David, I've read this piece with him a couple
Speaker 1: years ago. He was saying something very similar what you
Speaker 1: were saying, and that he said, I don't sell myself
Speaker 1: at this one of my career. I don't sell myself.
Speaker 1: I just present myself at this point. You know what
Speaker 1: it is. You know, if you're coming to me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're coming to me, you want me, And that's
Speaker 1: what it is. Don't get me wrong. I love and
Speaker 1: I respect, I really love and I respect the business.
Speaker 1: Like he said, I present myself and I've got a
Speaker 1: track record. I feel that speaks for myself. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so let's jump into it all right, dr War When
Speaker 1: y'all got a job for me, I'm like, let's looking
Speaker 1: at this thing and I'm like, ain't no Spike Lee
Speaker 1: movies here? How many times he say no to people?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just okay. So, of course, as as
Speaker 1: as uh lovingly dubbed dr War because of your you're
Speaker 1: a rep for being a hard math, uh professor, A
Speaker 1: majority of our audience of course connects with you as
Speaker 1: Colonel Bradford Taylor in a different world. UM, I have
Speaker 1: to say that probably in Quarantine. I've revisited that entire
Speaker 1: series and didn't realize how ahead of its time it was. Um,
Speaker 1: especially with what we're dealing with now. Like I went
Speaker 1: to a black college because of that, because of different
Speaker 1: world that I went to graduating from HBCUs and now
Speaker 1: we got a vice president beautiful. Yeah, probably because of YouTube.
Speaker 1: Um in general, did you I mean, at the time,
Speaker 1: did you see this as a well, I guess nothing's
Speaker 1: revolutionary as you're you're doing it, uh, when you're in
Speaker 1: the vacuum, and it's only what perspective that you see
Speaker 1: how important it is. But at the time, like, what
Speaker 1: were your thoughts in a different world did you think
Speaker 1: that while it's really historically significant or it was just
Speaker 1: a very good, steady job or like what were what
Speaker 1: what was the process? Well all that, you know, I
Speaker 1: came to find out that um, Susan fails, the King
Speaker 1: of Susan fails, and Debbie Allen was an unstoppable force.
Speaker 1: I had been in enough in the business enough and
Speaker 1: had been uh in the world long enough to know
Speaker 1: to get a whiff of what revolution sounds like, a
Speaker 1: smells like looks like. So when I saw the scripts
Speaker 1: coming across the death, scripts that dealt with you know,
Speaker 1: AIGs or scripts that dealt with abuse or uh you know,
Speaker 1: scripts that dealt with some of the issues, you know,
Speaker 1: with the war. You know, these were scripts and stories
Speaker 1: that were revolutionary. And the revolutionary factor was from the
Speaker 1: top down. It was all black people except for your
Speaker 1: first wife that we never saw right, right, y'all, y'all
Speaker 1: forgot that about different world. But even that was revolutionary,
Speaker 1: right exactly, And it was and it was even that
Speaker 1: was revolutionary, and so I was I was one of
Speaker 1: those who who realized that that's what was taking place,
Speaker 1: and uh, my my head went off to the cause base.
Speaker 1: We're taking that stance and fighting those that were, you know,
Speaker 1: opposed to some of the positions that we were talking about,
Speaker 1: some of the things we were talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: and keeping us nevertheless than number five in the ratings
Speaker 1: for seven in years. If the kudos that usually goes
Speaker 1: with that kind of uh sustainability and that kind of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, stewardship, we got none of the We got
Speaker 1: none of those kudos. I don't know. I feel that
Speaker 1: people are slowly rediscovering it now that it's on Amazon.
Speaker 1: So so yeah, I feel as though that people are
Speaker 1: rediscovering that that series um in a different way and
Speaker 1: sort of under a different lens than when it was
Speaker 1: previously on thirty years ago. Definitely with how they handled subjects,
Speaker 1: Like there's some episodes I didn't even remember them covering,
Speaker 1: like the Freddy episode, the like which shot the date
Speaker 1: rate the Shahs was it was? That was? That was
Speaker 1: one with well no no where time act, the date
Speaker 1: rape one. Yeah, the first one of the first season
Speaker 1: when Dwayne oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. I
Speaker 1: was gonna ask him what his favorite was there a
Speaker 1: favorite storyline for you for your character, for Colonel Taylor.
Speaker 1: For Colonel Taylor, I love the one that Blair Underwood
Speaker 1: and I did. Oh when when he was the Golf War.
Speaker 1: And when he came to Colonel Taylor to ask to
Speaker 1: let him know that he was afraid, you know, going
Speaker 1: into war. You know, I thought that that was so
Speaker 1: powerful and what that whole thing was about it. So
Speaker 1: it was it was the essence of patriotic. You know,
Speaker 1: we we did as a black people don't think in
Speaker 1: terms of being patriotic. We don't think we're patriotic because
Speaker 1: no one else looks at us as patriotic. But we're
Speaker 1: very patriotic as a people. We were part of every
Speaker 1: fight they let us be in. Huh that we were
Speaker 1: a part of every battle. They let us be in
Speaker 1: every battle, every battle from the very first gunshot from
Speaker 1: the Revolutionary from the Revolutionary War. Don't look at ourselves
Speaker 1: that way. And uh so we're always clamoring to be
Speaker 1: thought of as that, and uh all the evidence points
Speaker 1: to everything otherwise. And this was a wonderful, wonderful expose
Speaker 1: of uh, disenfranchised people doing what was patriotic. And it
Speaker 1: was right during the war, I mean the war was
Speaker 1: going to what was going on right at that time.
Speaker 1: It gave us a perspective on TV we never get
Speaker 1: to see. We don't like you said, we don't see
Speaker 1: us in it and how we're thinking and stuff that
Speaker 1: we're thinking about it. So it's it was wonderful, you know,
Speaker 1: and and the show was just fantastic show. Mr. I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about your time um the time
Speaker 1: with a wreath that when you guys were together, y'all
Speaker 1: were like the first Instagram covid. Yeah, yeah, I was
Speaker 1: thinking the same thing they Yeah, it were y'all were
Speaker 1: like them. Yeah, jetted in the jet Yeah what was
Speaker 1: that in your life? Like, man, what was it like? Well,
Speaker 1: when it was good, it was the very best of times.
Speaker 1: You know, it was the very best of times. We
Speaker 1: remain friends for all those years, thirty five years after
Speaker 1: we were married. Uh so we had a wonderful, wonderful relationship.
Speaker 1: And it was some points that was just unbelievable. You know,
Speaker 1: some things you can't you can't be relieve, you can't
Speaker 1: really even imagine. You know, there's some some some directions
Speaker 1: your life takes and you really have to some sometimes
Speaker 1: step outside yourself and say what how did what are
Speaker 1: I doing here? You know? I feel like that right now.
Speaker 1: It had because I noticed in your filmography those are
Speaker 1: the years that you took a break like it was
Speaker 1: just like I'm well, no, because no, there were tough
Speaker 1: that that that you know, there were tough times. There
Speaker 1: were tough times, not that we had the option to
Speaker 1: take a break. You have to remember that disco came
Speaker 1: on the scene at that time as well. All of
Speaker 1: the soul singers were in dire straits as well because
Speaker 1: they were struggling. Yeah, they were struggling. There was a struggling.
Speaker 1: There was a paradigm shift in the whole music uh
Speaker 1: world as well as UM the black exploitation movies were
Speaker 1: trying to be replaced. I was at an age where
Speaker 1: I was coming out of a young man and now
Speaker 1: into a leading man area, you know. So there was
Speaker 1: a struggle in that aspect, which all actors go through
Speaker 1: if they're in the game long enough and start young enough.
Speaker 1: You know. So, I'm not in the business where you
Speaker 1: take a break. Ob you don't. Now we you don't
Speaker 1: take a break. The business takes a break from you.
Speaker 1: You right, man? What do you think I watched you
Speaker 1: and your you and your your current wife on Black
Speaker 1: Love and I interview and now that was a interview.
Speaker 1: What do you think you learned from from you? Know,
Speaker 1: from the marriage with everything then just you know, the
Speaker 1: other marriage. What were do you think some of the
Speaker 1: key lessons you learned in those early marriages that prepared
Speaker 1: you for your current marriage with your wife now that
Speaker 1: one of the key ingredients to a relationship is liking
Speaker 1: the person that you're in a relationship with. Told us
Speaker 1: that you can't be light in the house with somebody
Speaker 1: you don't life. Yeah, you couldn't be locked up in
Speaker 1: this that you were or somebody you don't like, you know.
Speaker 1: I think that that's what over the years that I've
Speaker 1: learned out of three marriages, is that liking the person
Speaker 1: makes it is a key ingredient. Uh So you know,
Speaker 1: I like this person, and I'm with you here, you know,
Speaker 1: and we build on that. Well. Since he mentioned that
Speaker 1: he hasn't been auditioning since the nineties, this just changed
Speaker 1: my way of thought totally. Since you totally pick out
Speaker 1: what what you wanna do. So before Bill gets we
Speaker 1: get to the wire questions. I just got to know
Speaker 1: the role house supplies, don cheetos, Daddy, just tell me
Speaker 1: a little later. I know it came later, but you've
Speaker 1: taken too long to get to the wire. So I
Speaker 1: just gotta know why, how, why did you decide that
Speaker 1: that was a role for you? And what was it
Speaker 1: about the role that made you go, oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I want to do that? Very simple, Don Chet said,
Speaker 1: I want Glenn Terman to play my daddy. I mean,
Speaker 1: you are the daddy. I feel like, in an acting sense,
Speaker 1: the hard choice at all. I love John, I'm a
Speaker 1: fan of his word that at this stage in the game,
Speaker 1: that young people saying that they want Glenn termin to
Speaker 1: be a part of this show, I'm flatted on it.
Speaker 1: And uh so I brought it all right, So let's
Speaker 1: talk about the wild Royce roy Sir, I would like
Speaker 1: to say that talk to me about donated to your campaign,
Speaker 1: may roy I don't believe man, one of you. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I think other than being a fascinating character, what is
Speaker 1: it like coming into a pre existing series way like
Speaker 1: a few seasons, a few seasons into it, in a
Speaker 1: particular series like that where every season changes, it doesn't change,
Speaker 1: you know, but has a different plot line and making
Speaker 1: an impact. Because Mayor Royce was a super impactful character,
Speaker 1: even though it was many seasons into the thing and
Speaker 1: all of these characters had already been established and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you come along and you have
Speaker 1: an impact as well. What was the what was that
Speaker 1: process like? That was a very actory question. It's not
Speaker 1: like an actor. I'm not an actor. That was actor question.
Speaker 1: There go, all right. David Simon is a genius the
Speaker 1: producer of the w Y Yeah. Yeah, And he's got
Speaker 1: such insight into his characters. He knows all of his
Speaker 1: characters inside and out. I had a conversation with him.
Speaker 1: He was he was wonderful in the in the way
Speaker 1: he cared for the characters that that that he was
Speaker 1: pointing out to me, and how he got there, and
Speaker 1: what he thought about Mayor Royce, Uh that it was
Speaker 1: actually the mayor that was the mayor at the time,
Speaker 1: uh in in Baltimore, and that I was playing actually him.
Speaker 1: To give you an idea of how precise David Simon is.
Speaker 1: I came to that show while doing another show, a
Speaker 1: motion picture. I was doing a motion picture in Morocco
Speaker 1: and uh it was one with Penelope Crews and uh
Speaker 1: Sco Sahara and uh Matthew McConaughey. And during a break
Speaker 1: in that filming, I booked the wire. But in that
Speaker 1: filming I had a goatee. And so the first day
Speaker 1: of shooting, the directors saying, well, Glenn, we need you
Speaker 1: to shave your your goatee. I said, I can't because
Speaker 1: I have to go back and finish this motion picture
Speaker 1: that I'm doing Sahara, and they've got first first digs
Speaker 1: on it. So I've got to I've got to do.
Speaker 1: You know, look the way I looked in that show.
Speaker 1: On the spot, Simon says, Okay, tell you what next
Speaker 1: season there's going to be an election runoff, a big
Speaker 1: election with a younger guy. I know where you're going. Yes, Yes,
Speaker 1: with the younger character. Car Carsetti into the script that
Speaker 1: because he's younger, you're trying to look younger with with
Speaker 1: the with the for the for your constituents. That gave
Speaker 1: off your your your And that's what he did. But
Speaker 1: he saw that on the spot a year before it happened.
Speaker 1: The year Yeah. I mean he solved that just like
Speaker 1: that on the spot. That's how I head, That's how
Speaker 1: telescopic his vision is. You know, So, how do you
Speaker 1: not be a part of somebody who's leading the charge
Speaker 1: like that? You want to be a part of something
Speaker 1: like that? Well, I got a question along those lines, like, like,
Speaker 1: what's the difference between a script that's super specific, clearly,
Speaker 1: like one that's like a David Simon one versus one
Speaker 1: that's not versus one where where the actors asked to
Speaker 1: put way more into it versus just reading what's on
Speaker 1: the page or just responding to what's on the page.
Speaker 1: Is there a how do you how do you do
Speaker 1: you favor scripts that go one way or the other,
Speaker 1: or how do you react to each of them? With
Speaker 1: the Wire? Now, you have to understand actors are the
Speaker 1: vainest people in the world. No, No, I know that
Speaker 1: they're most my friendly. We also know that when actors
Speaker 1: get scripts, the first thing they do is some through
Speaker 1: it to get to their part. Yeah my line, my line, bullshit.
Speaker 1: With every script of the Wire, I read every script
Speaker 1: from beginning to whether I was in it or not,
Speaker 1: because it was like reading a book. That's your difference.
Speaker 1: Have you kept all of your scripts or are you?
Speaker 1: Do you have to give them a back? Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: got I've got them here in my office from the Wire, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of them. Do you find that the wires
Speaker 1: the I think for black people, it's still for black
Speaker 1: people at a certain age. It's coolly high. But do
Speaker 1: you are you shocked at the amount of white people
Speaker 1: that love the Wire as much? Well, I don't know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. People show Okay, I'll go. If
Speaker 1: I go into two two office to talk about the
Speaker 1: script with the producers or whoever, the director will zoom
Speaker 1: through what we're there to talk about. M h. And
Speaker 1: then the first question after that is, so tell me
Speaker 1: about the Wire. And I've been I'm there for another
Speaker 1: half an hour answering questions like you just asked me, brother,
Speaker 1: you know, still just ask and we go into the
Speaker 1: wire and that's black, white or anything, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: That's the way that's been. I was gonna say, you
Speaker 1: and you predict, depending on what situation you're in, who's
Speaker 1: gonna come up to you and ask you which character,
Speaker 1: Like I'm in the grocery stores. I know you know
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna about Omar, right right right, right,
Speaker 1: right right? Yeah. Do you remember the day if if
Speaker 1: you remember what you could tell us the day if
Speaker 1: you shot the scene where you called it an uncompromising
Speaker 1: positions another compromising positions in the office. I don't know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking
Speaker 1: about up the roles was a savage he was so
Speaker 1: that was no man. That was like a great role.
Speaker 1: I think that just spoke to so many For me
Speaker 1: in particular, it spoke to me seeing you in that
Speaker 1: role because up until that time, uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: had only seen you in you know kind of I
Speaker 1: guess what you said, a good guy roles like Colonel Taylor.
Speaker 1: That was a great role. But yeah, it was very dignified.
Speaker 1: But you know in the wire, that was just somebody
Speaker 1: you were so conflicted, you know what I'm saying. It's
Speaker 1: like he wasn't just a straight good guy, but you know,
Speaker 1: he wasn't a bad guy like he just had like
Speaker 1: all them shows. He was a politician, a politician in
Speaker 1: every sense of the word. Like when my favorite scene,
Speaker 1: you know, you when they were um when Bunny Covid
Speaker 1: they find out that, you know that what he's been
Speaker 1: doing with Amsterdam, and and everyone is in the office
Speaker 1: and they just everybody talking ship, everybody's raising hell and
Speaker 1: the mayor is just sitting back and you're just looking
Speaker 1: at the numbers like like that's all he cares about.
Speaker 1: You know what? What was what was interesting about that was,
Speaker 1: like I said, I got to meet the mayor. God,
Speaker 1: I can't remember his name right now, Yeah, who was
Speaker 1: the mayor at that time? And he was actually in
Speaker 1: that scene. So well, what I asked him about that
Speaker 1: the whole incident with the legalizing uh that that district
Speaker 1: for for the drugs, and he said, I made a
Speaker 1: horrible mistake. I said, what was that? He says, I
Speaker 1: framed that whole thing as a drug zone and I
Speaker 1: should have framed it as a as a medical epidemic.
Speaker 1: Hurt smoke, h hurt smoke right right, you got it,
Speaker 1: you got it, you got it, uh smoke set. I
Speaker 1: should have framed the whole thing as a as a
Speaker 1: medical problem. If I got spread used it as a
Speaker 1: medical problem, I would have been able to get away
Speaker 1: with it. I want to know if, um, you know,
Speaker 1: because of the critical claim that the show had and
Speaker 1: the fact that it just completely got snubbed during the Emmys,
Speaker 1: did you guys ever feel a certain way about that?
Speaker 1: Comes Joanne? Yeah, that's Ms Joe and she's been asking
Speaker 1: about you. What's up, miss Joanne? What up? We love
Speaker 1: black love Love, So thank you? Okay? How fun? Yes, ma'am,
Speaker 1: I was saying that the fact that the show was
Speaker 1: so critically acclaimed and so well loved, were you guys
Speaker 1: at all disappointed that, you know you I wouldn't say blackballing,
Speaker 1: but the fact that the Emmy's refused to recognize you
Speaker 1: guys as the powerhouse that you were. As far as
Speaker 1: the Emmys were concerned with the wife, I never understood
Speaker 1: that it was other than that there was like twenty
Speaker 1: six black major players on this show, you know, that
Speaker 1: had never happened before. But they just would not give
Speaker 1: the propers. They would not give the propers, and I
Speaker 1: don't know why. Well, speaking of which, your your role
Speaker 1: as UM in How to Get Away with Murder, Um,
Speaker 1: you were nominated this year for UM and Emmy. What
Speaker 1: did that feel like? I like, was it is that
Speaker 1: important to you at all to to get recognized by
Speaker 1: your peers or sure? Absolutely, absolutely that's important. I don't
Speaker 1: take that for granted at all. You know, I've been
Speaker 1: blessed to have been, uh, the recipient of several wonderful awards,
Speaker 1: you know, Emmy being a being a crown jewel so
Speaker 1: to speak. You know, the one that I won, the
Speaker 1: one that I'm not was nominated for uh, so no,
Speaker 1: I don't you know your your peers holds you up
Speaker 1: like that. You know, that's that's something as a as
Speaker 1: a young actor, as a kid. You know you're looking
Speaker 1: in the mirror and you're practicing your acceptance speeches. You
Speaker 1: know that that's all that's real, you know. So then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there it is for real, and
Speaker 1: it's like you get up there and you're like tongue tiede,
Speaker 1: you know, nervous. And I thought about like j D's Revenge.
Speaker 1: It made me think, have you and Luca said java
Speaker 1: work together again? After that, we worked you know, Loui.
Speaker 1: The first time lou and I worked together was in
Speaker 1: Raising in the Sun, right, yeah, because he was he
Speaker 1: was one of the characters in the Raisin in the Sun.
Speaker 1: So I've known Loui. He's been a big brother of
Speaker 1: mine since I was twelve years old. So then again
Speaker 1: we did the River Niger if the Night a country, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: thank you with James L. Jones and Cicily Tyson looking
Speaker 1: on my watch list, and then we did uh uh
Speaker 1: j D's Revenge after that, and we've been you know,
Speaker 1: he's always been a big brother kind of figure for me.
Speaker 1: Who who's your who's your You're starting five? Your your
Speaker 1: inner circle? Like besides been Verne, Like, do you have
Speaker 1: a circle of peers that you're tight with it? We've
Speaker 1: got a road Dog road Dog crew, Like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: right right, yeah, we got a road Dog crew that
Speaker 1: we we uh, we all stay in touch and even
Speaker 1: through this pandemic, we talk every Sunday. You know, and
Speaker 1: some you know and some you wouldn't. Maybe not necessarily no,
Speaker 1: although most the crew who who's who's the crew? Well,
Speaker 1: oh gosh, I don't want to go into the far
Speaker 1: leave somebody out. Okay, Well I have a question, um uh,
Speaker 1: Sugar Steve here Basically, um, you were in Gremlins, which
Speaker 1: nobody brought up yet, Yes you were, Yes you were.
Speaker 1: What are your memories of that? Was that a fun
Speaker 1: movie to be involved in? GMS was great to be
Speaker 1: uh involved in because Sugar, that was the first time
Speaker 1: that that kind of puppet was made for the screen.
Speaker 1: So the eyes rolling and everything. There were about five
Speaker 1: or six people underneath the table with a hole in
Speaker 1: the table for the cables and everything to go to
Speaker 1: the puppet for the Maguay and all of them to
Speaker 1: operate and to operate the ears and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. So it was fascinating. Now then you cut
Speaker 1: forward to a movie I just did last year. It's
Speaker 1: it's just come out. It's uh, it's only been out
Speaker 1: maybe a year of Bumblebee. There's another speed Steven Spielberg movie.
Speaker 1: My second thing is my second Steven Spielberg movie. And
Speaker 1: the technology has changed so much. Now we're doing giants, right,
Speaker 1: big big those uh those robots, you know, those big
Speaker 1: robots that change into cars and changing into this and
Speaker 1: change into that, transforming. They're gigantic, right, but they're really
Speaker 1: just for eye line for the actor. A tennis ball
Speaker 1: on the end of a tall stick. That's all you
Speaker 1: look in there, and that's up in the air and
Speaker 1: you're acting to this thing. And then they put a
Speaker 1: little bit together in post. But when we did uh,
Speaker 1: the Gremlins, those little gadgets were right there, you know,
Speaker 1: and the table there's six six dudes under there working
Speaker 1: some facet of the gadget. You know. So I said, wow,
Speaker 1: you know, I said, what a what a change in times?
Speaker 1: You know, it was really interesting, It was really fascinating
Speaker 1: to be a part of that. You are and they're
Speaker 1: they're still using puppets over at Sesame Street Bill. I mean,
Speaker 1: what's going on with you guys? Old the old school sugar.
Speaker 1: I do want to tell you one more question, Um,
Speaker 1: what what can you tell me about Honky? Your first
Speaker 1: movie from waiting for It? I feel like Land was
Speaker 1: my first waiting for you to be specific on which one,
Speaker 1: but then he was all the movie Bay and I'm
Speaker 1: taking I can't tell you much, man, I can't tell you.
Speaker 1: I sure that was a long I was just gonna
Speaker 1: ask you about, um, you know, because we were able
Speaker 1: to see uh, you know, my rainies and m man
Speaker 1: like your performance in that, like you know great, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, this is everything, But um, you know,
Speaker 1: just your you with with Chadwick, I mean you know
Speaker 1: that being his last film, Man, what was that like,
Speaker 1: you know, working with time? Yeah? Yeah, And here's what
Speaker 1: you gotta understand. All those fight scenes and tussling and
Speaker 1: him lifting me after after the end of that whole thing.
Speaker 1: We did that maybe twenty times. What was in it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: He was magic. I don't want to use magic. That's
Speaker 1: just too trivial. I don't I don't know because and
Speaker 1: I was as dead weight as I could be. And
Speaker 1: he was early holding me up and picking me up,
Speaker 1: and we did several different takes, several different angles, several
Speaker 1: different modes, and he just went for it every single time.
Speaker 1: And we had no idea that he was sick. I
Speaker 1: just kept saying to myself, damn it, it's strong, you know.
Speaker 1: And he was. He was just strong, strong willed, you know,
Speaker 1: he willed himself to do all of that. So I
Speaker 1: just I missed him already. You know, he was wonderful.
Speaker 1: We had a great, great time. He had a great
Speaker 1: sense of human I used to tease him and and
Speaker 1: Simoan his wife when I first he first introduced me
Speaker 1: to her. You know, they were such a cute couple
Speaker 1: and uh so I had a great time with them,
Speaker 1: and uh and his work ethic was just reminded me
Speaker 1: of me back in the day. You know, I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, not for nothing. It's so aery to me
Speaker 1: that and looking back at his filmography that it seems
Speaker 1: like he was very purposeful and the roles and the
Speaker 1: projects that he chose and was a part of, and
Speaker 1: especially in the sense of his commitment to his people,
Speaker 1: and it just made me think of you as well
Speaker 1: as how you became very purposeful in your roles, and
Speaker 1: I was curious if y'all had a conversation between the
Speaker 1: two of you guys about that. No, he was a cool,
Speaker 1: big Coolie High fan, you know, and so he wanted
Speaker 1: to know a lot of questions about Kuli High. But
Speaker 1: he was just he was just a dedicated performer. You know,
Speaker 1: do you have a lot of the um the younger
Speaker 1: guys like coming to you for advice, like like young
Speaker 1: black actors of you because you've seen very much conscious
Speaker 1: you know, o G in the game. Do you have
Speaker 1: the people you know, the younger actors come Just that
Speaker 1: happens quite a bit. That happens quite you know. I
Speaker 1: try to try to feed them. You know. I was
Speaker 1: lucky I had of James Earl Jones was or the
Speaker 1: Sydney forty age who I could always call, you know
Speaker 1: and go to and uh you know, so I tried
Speaker 1: to reciprocate that same spirit. What was some of the
Speaker 1: biggest lessons you learned from James and Sydney? When I
Speaker 1: told I ran into Sydney party, I was I was
Speaker 1: a struggling actor. We had done embraising in the sun
Speaker 1: and now I'm I've graduated high school about nineteen years old.
Speaker 1: I'm struggling, trying to get the next job. There, trying
Speaker 1: to find a job. Nothing's happening. I'm going uptown. I
Speaker 1: was a truck driver in New York. I'm taking a
Speaker 1: load of furniture uptown. And I see Sydney coming out
Speaker 1: of out of a restaurant on seventh half and the fifties,
Speaker 1: and Uh immediately said, oh my god, Sydney, and I
Speaker 1: pull over. You know, when I got all this furniture
Speaker 1: and everything that is big at this truck and over
Speaker 1: and and I pull it over and I jump out
Speaker 1: and I'm all dirty and grammy, I've been lifting furniture
Speaker 1: all day. And he comes out and he saw clean
Speaker 1: and shop and everything. You know. He started coming out
Speaker 1: of there, gonna restaurant, you know, And I said, it's cleanning.
Speaker 1: He kind of looks and then Travis, I'm reason the sun.
Speaker 1: Oh how are you? I said, I said bye, I
Speaker 1: said side fright. I said, man, I'm you know, I
Speaker 1: graduated performing arts high school. You know, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: do my thing. You know, I'm just drowning the truck
Speaker 1: right now, and I'm I'm auditioning and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the bizin? Man? What
Speaker 1: do I need to know? He said, study mat, Yeah,
Speaker 1: back to math, right. I said, what you suck at
Speaker 1: my yeah right right, study mat? Yeah yeah, I got that.
Speaker 1: I got that, you know, And he took off, you know,
Speaker 1: down the street and he's gone, he's whisky like disappears,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm like, study, man, study, What is
Speaker 1: he talking about? Studying? Man? Man? I think that's ship
Speaker 1: study man. Drive. You just don't want to tell me. Well,
Speaker 1: this is a business. It's called show business. Count your paper,
Speaker 1: your paper, I see, that's it. So wait before we close. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, as I mentioned, you're you're driving us with
Speaker 1: the two for of course my Rainy being one of them.
Speaker 1: But um fo, you're working on far Ago must respect
Speaker 1: doctor Senator, which which hopefully will be sending you back
Speaker 1: to MS next year. Um from your listen say it again. No,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's I I already see it happen. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm putting it out there. Um yeah, just in in
Speaker 1: the fact that they're telling a black storyline, Like, no
Speaker 1: one was more shocked than I was. So how did
Speaker 1: this come to be? How how did this come to fruition?
Speaker 1: I picked up the phone or running rang. My agent said,
Speaker 1: we've got an offer for you to do it far ago.
Speaker 1: I said, send me the scrip, and they sent me
Speaker 1: the script and I said, I'm in. You know, were
Speaker 1: you familiar with the series at all before? It's a movie?
Speaker 1: And uh, I'd watched an episode here, in an episode there,
Speaker 1: but not really uh into it, you know. But once
Speaker 1: I signed on, you know, I got all of the
Speaker 1: episodes and binge Binge watched all of them. When I
Speaker 1: got there, I met met Noah Holly, who was brilliant
Speaker 1: young man, and uh, he just you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I just talked. I loved what he was saying. I
Speaker 1: love what he was talking about in terms of and
Speaker 1: it was not deep. Everything was really rather rather simple.
Speaker 1: But he obviously to give you an idea of how
Speaker 1: his mind works in terms of details. Just I just
Speaker 1: watched this last episode. You know, I'm deadn't going, but
Speaker 1: I'm still wing. Uh. You know, he had a thing
Speaker 1: in their way, he said, I'm paraphrasing now, but one
Speaker 1: of the one of the black characters says, I don't
Speaker 1: think it was Chris, something about I got to get
Speaker 1: out of here, and I'm gonna go get some greens. Now,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's a black guy right now. He got
Speaker 1: on their head. Like you know, so he's so intuned
Speaker 1: to the nuances. It's about the nuances of his scripts
Speaker 1: and his characters. It's the nuances that make that make
Speaker 1: the character is so interesting. You know, he's brilliant at that,
Speaker 1: you know, and that those are what so fun to play.
Speaker 1: Dr Sentison's nuances. We're just so much fun. But answer
Speaker 1: this question, Glenn. In the beginning of Fargo, it says,
Speaker 1: this is true, some of the things have been changed,
Speaker 1: but please you please tell me is any it is
Speaker 1: true that the black man create the credit card? Come on,
Speaker 1: what pleasure? Before you go? Before you go, can I
Speaker 1: just say, how poetic does it feel that you started
Speaker 1: out and raising the son with Lorraine and you you
Speaker 1: now brought I was August Wilson's second like a second
Speaker 1: place to the film to film, Like, what does that
Speaker 1: feel like? I think I said that really nice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it feels great. It feels great. It just it just
Speaker 1: feels great. And you know, it's also great to be
Speaker 1: here with you guys, to see you guys doing your thing,
Speaker 1: all of you together doing your thing, ask some great questions.
Speaker 1: Got you got your own thing going on? I love
Speaker 1: seeing this. You have to understand that it wasn't always
Speaker 1: like this. So you guys are real. You guys are
Speaker 1: my heroes. So you stand on your shoulders, sir, thank
Speaker 1: you Question Supreme. We are heroes. Well we we thank
Speaker 1: you very much, uh for sharing your stories and and
Speaker 1: and your creativity and and thank you for always making
Speaker 1: us look good. Many Yeah, like we appreciate that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so on behalf of Sugar Steve. I'm paid Bill fine,
Speaker 1: take a little and like you. This is of course
Speaker 1: love signing off from course Love Supreme, the Great Glint Turman.
Speaker 1: Definitely see my rainys black uh black Bottom Bottom. I
Speaker 1: had a momentary lapse of reasons yes, and then also
Speaker 1: yes my rainy is black Bottom definitely must see and
Speaker 1: uh yeah support him in far Ago and yeah we
Speaker 1: I'm calling it now this yeah it's it's it's a
Speaker 1: many time for this entire season. Yeah, I'm calling it
Speaker 1: right now, the Great Glint Turman. Lady and gentlemen, thank
Speaker 1: you very much. This is Question of Supreme signing off. Hey,
Speaker 1: this is Sugar Steve. Make sure you keep up with
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at q l s and let us
Speaker 1: know what we think and who should be next to
Speaker 1: sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast,
Speaker 1: What's Love Supreme, is a production of my Heart Radio.
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