Speaker 1: Lute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails and
Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community.
Speaker 2: Hey, welcome back. This is rad and this is another
Speaker 2: episode of soft Rep Radio. I want to remind you
Speaker 2: to go check out our book club at soft reap
Speaker 2: dot com book hyphen Club. You guys know what it is.
Speaker 2: Go check out the book club. We also have the
Speaker 2: merch store where we have branded goods from soft Rep
Speaker 2: that you guys have been like tagging me on the
Speaker 2: internet in keep that up and you know, maybe we'll
Speaker 2: pick someone to win a prize. Keep tagging. Today's guest
Speaker 2: is someone special because he's just a human being on
Speaker 2: this earth who was tasked with raising his hand to
Speaker 2: defend his country that he chose to do and decided
Speaker 2: to go to college and become an officer in the military.
Speaker 2: And so I have Colonel Roland J. Tisso, Junior United
Speaker 2: States Army, retired author. You know he is going to
Speaker 2: be let me go over as a background here. Colonel
Speaker 2: Roland Tisso was commissioned a second lieutenant of Infantry upon
Speaker 2: his graduation from the Virginia Military Institute in nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 2: He commanded infantry companies in Korea and the United States,
Speaker 2: the first Battalion, five O eighth Airborne Infantry in Panama,
Speaker 2: and United States Task Force Sinai, Multinational Force and Observers
Speaker 2: in Egypt. He was the Chief of War Plans Division,
Speaker 2: US Central Command in nineteen ninety six ninety seven and
Speaker 2: was one of the primary planners of the Iraq War Plan.
Speaker 2: He was Executive Officer to the Commander of the US
Speaker 2: Central Command nineteen ninety eight to two thousand. He's a
Speaker 2: graduate of the US Army War College, the Command and
Speaker 2: General Staff College, and the Armed Forces College. The show
Speaker 2: is over, Holy Cow. Welcome to the show, Colonel Roland. Sir, dude, Sarah,
Speaker 2: thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Read I hope you had fun with that.
Speaker 2: I had fun with that, you know. I read it
Speaker 2: like five times before we were going to meet up,
Speaker 2: and I thought I had it like a breeze. But
Speaker 2: as I'm reading it, you have quite the resume. And
Speaker 2: as a young man, let me just hit you right,
Speaker 2: as a young man, you're sixteen years old. Are you
Speaker 2: in like boy scouts? Are you swimming? What are you
Speaker 2: doing at sixteen seventeen before you go off to high school,
Speaker 2: college graduation.
Speaker 3: Well, that's interesting you should ask that that particular period
Speaker 3: between sixteen and the time I entered the Army, my
Speaker 3: principal focus was sports. And I went to school at
Speaker 3: that time at a place called Pellam Memorial High School
Speaker 3: in Westchester County in New York, and again the principal
Speaker 3: focus was football, wrestling, boxing, believe it or not, and
Speaker 3: track and field. All of that served me very very
Speaker 3: well for a decision that I had made many many
Speaker 3: years before, and that was to become a soldier. And
Speaker 3: so armed with that, I entered the Army and then
Speaker 3: the Virginia Military Institute in nineteen sixty nine. So you
Speaker 3: enlisted initially, but that was very short lived, primarily because
Speaker 3: of my football background. The Army decided that, you know,
Speaker 3: maybe I could play football for them, but there was
Speaker 3: no room at the United States Army Preparatory School. So
Speaker 3: I ended up on a bus to a place that
Speaker 3: I hold an extremely high esteem, and that was the
Speaker 3: Virginia Military Institute, and I was commissioned a second lieutenant
Speaker 3: from there in nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 2: So you're definitely a Vietnam baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, my actions all occurred after the conflict,
Speaker 3: but my brother served there, and I'm very very proud
Speaker 3: of him, very very proud of my family's legacy with
Speaker 3: respect to service. My father and his four brothers all
Speaker 3: served in the Great World War Two. They are my heroes,
Speaker 3: and they were the basis upon my decision very early
Speaker 3: in life to become a soldier.
Speaker 2: That's very powerful. I also joined because of the family.
Speaker 2: My father former Green Beret, and I just idolized that
Speaker 2: that was my father, you know, my hero and my
Speaker 2: grandfather World War two Navy. My dad also Vietnam Navy.
Speaker 2: So you just have this legacy. And then to come
Speaker 2: to find out later in life after my dad was adopted,
Speaker 2: didn't find out his dad until he had died. But
Speaker 2: his dad was in Vietnam the same year he was
Speaker 2: in Vietnam, and he never knew that. It's like they
Speaker 2: were just going to pass each other. So there's just
Speaker 2: this weird legacy. You know, I'm wearing a Tiger stripe
Speaker 2: right now. I just can't help it. I'm a seventies child.
Speaker 2: So before I get into the hard hitting stuff with you,
Speaker 2: when you decided to go infantry, was that because you
Speaker 2: just wanted to go infantry or you pulled out a
Speaker 2: basic infantry. I'm curious about that. Is that like a
Speaker 2: job that you chose.
Speaker 3: Well the you know, I mentioned my legacy, very very
Speaker 3: proud of my father and his brothers, But my father
Speaker 3: was an infantry. When he initially went in the army,
Speaker 3: he was assigned, believe it or not, to the coastal
Speaker 3: artillery because he was a phenomenal mechanically inclined individual, and
Speaker 3: he became an expert on all weapons, from the sixteen
Speaker 3: inchers that we all know from the battleships, but were
Speaker 3: also the big coastal artillery guns, right down to the
Speaker 3: small arms of the day, the Grand the three Springfield,
Speaker 3: the Thompson machine gun. And he could take those things
Speaker 3: and put them back to take them apart, put them
Speaker 3: back together again, fixed them. He was an amazing man
Speaker 3: that way. But as the war progressed, he was tired
Speaker 3: of sitting in Connecticut, where he actually engaged a German
Speaker 3: submarine off the coast. But that was not enough for him,
Speaker 3: so he volunteered for the infantry and was decorated for
Speaker 3: heroism during the Central European Campaign in nineteen forty four
Speaker 3: forty five that I thought was the standard. Along with
Speaker 3: my uncle Mark, who was very badly wounded fighting with
Speaker 3: the twenty ninth Infantry Division during the assault on the
Speaker 3: Sigfried Line. They were my heroes, and I thought, you
Speaker 3: know what, that's what I want to be. I want
Speaker 3: to be an infantry officer, and that's what I put
Speaker 3: all of my efforts toward on the athletic fields and
Speaker 3: eventually on the drill fields of the Virginia Military Institute.
Speaker 2: Now let's flash forward two thousand and one, nine to eleven.
Speaker 2: So I remember I was in bed. My dad woke
Speaker 2: me up. He's like, hey, Aaron, wake up, turn the
Speaker 2: TV on. We were watching the TV of the first
Speaker 2: tower smoking second one guy hit. At that moment, he
Speaker 2: looked at me and he just said, we're under attack.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Let me tell you that was quite an eye opener.
Speaker 3: And for me, I had just arrived at United States
Speaker 3: Central Command the month before, having successfully commanded United States
Speaker 3: Task Force Sinai. I was very, very proud of having
Speaker 3: been selected for that assignment, where by the way, I
Speaker 3: also served as the chief of Staff of the moment
Speaker 3: the National Force, and of course I speak about that
Speaker 3: in the book that I wrote in Strange Company. But
Speaker 3: I was sitting in my office on eleven September, and
Speaker 3: I actually had the news on when the first aircraft
Speaker 3: hit the building, and I thought to myself, oh my god,
Speaker 3: what a terrible, terrible accident. And I said that because
Speaker 3: you may not be aware of this, but in nineteen
Speaker 3: forty five, I believe it was a B seventeen bomber
Speaker 3: on its way back from Europe that had flown into
Speaker 3: the Empire State Building, a similar kind of event. But
Speaker 3: then the second plane hit and I got up from
Speaker 3: behind my desk and I walked into my boss's office
Speaker 3: and I said, sir, something's not right, and I believe
Speaker 3: we've been attacked. And then, of course, shortly after that,
Speaker 3: the truth became known, and we started gearing up at
Speaker 3: United States Central Command to deploy a forward headquarters to Afghanistan.
Speaker 3: And the rest is history.
Speaker 2: And you talk about this history, and you mentioned it
Speaker 2: in Strange Company. I do want to mention that you've
Speaker 2: wrote a book and you're out there talking about this
Speaker 2: and wanting to let people know about it. And I
Speaker 2: don't forget about that, you know, I just want folks
Speaker 2: to know that you started out without really a recruiter
Speaker 2: coming at you. Except for your family wanting to join
Speaker 2: the military. You had this passion, and I want to
Speaker 2: reignite that passion with someone who may listen to this
Speaker 2: and they may want to join and take that next step. So,
Speaker 2: you know, we need those constitution fighters out there.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's particularly important, and especially today. You know,
Speaker 3: I am very very concerned about what's going on in
Speaker 3: today's armed forces, and I believe that some of the
Speaker 3: policies that we've seen of late have led to a
Speaker 3: lot of young men, and I say, men, we need
Speaker 3: men in our Army and our Marine Corps and the
Speaker 3: other services to look elsewhere to not want to serve
Speaker 3: in given what they have seen of late. And it's
Speaker 3: something that I understand and something that I think will
Speaker 3: change very shortly, because let me tell you, rad as
Speaker 3: you well know. You know, the enemy has a vote
Speaker 3: in how we perform on the battlefield. And right now,
Speaker 3: I am very very concerned that the status of readiness
Speaker 3: of our armed forces, and I'm particularly the Army and
Speaker 3: the Marine Corps, those ground combat organizations that are manpower intensive, okay,
Speaker 3: is not up to snuff. I think that far too
Speaker 3: much time is being placed on nonsensical issues that frankly,
Speaker 3: are driving a lot of our young men, as I
Speaker 3: indicated previously, to think about doing other things. I believe
Speaker 3: that will change. I believe that will change perhaps in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, when we might be seeing a change
Speaker 3: in leadership. I don't know, but I'm certainly hopeful of that.
Speaker 2: As a colonel, someone who climbed that grade ladder, you know,
Speaker 2: with all diligence, if some congress could hold up three
Speaker 2: hundred appointments just because they want to be able to
Speaker 2: play games with your job, that would make you, with
Speaker 2: all of this knowledge and all of this schooling and
Speaker 2: all of this leadership, maybe look to the civilian market
Speaker 2: versus like, Hey, why would I want to work for
Speaker 2: someone who can just like put the thumb on me
Speaker 2: when I'm supposed to be the one to the oppressed.
Speaker 3: Well, I would only say this, I am familiar with
Speaker 3: the issue that you just raised, and I always viewed
Speaker 3: that as a temporary situation that certain congressmen engaged in
Speaker 3: in order to perpetrate a positive action on the part
Speaker 3: of our administration and perhaps our military to do other
Speaker 3: things that they thought were badly needed. And I'm inclined
Speaker 3: to think, as I just said, are very badly needed.
Speaker 3: But having said that, I think that young men today
Speaker 3: are not going to be overly concerned with that particular issue. Ultimately,
Speaker 3: the United States armed forces have always dealt with our
Speaker 3: Congress and with civilian leaders, a number of whom, unfortunately
Speaker 3: true today, don't know one end of a rifle from
Speaker 3: the other, and never walked a mile in yours or
Speaker 3: my shoes, or the shoes of countless other millions who
Speaker 3: have in fact served this nation. And so to the
Speaker 3: young folks out there who think otherwise, I am inclined
Speaker 3: to say, Look, you know, in nineteen sixty one a
Speaker 3: man stood up who was a Democratic president, and he said,
Speaker 3: you know, ask not what your country can do for you,
Speaker 3: ask what you can do for your country. And I
Speaker 3: think that that holds true, not only for the time
Speaker 3: that he raised that in nineteen sixty one, but it
Speaker 3: certainly holds true today. We will continue, as senior officers
Speaker 3: to deal with the Congress, and they will be as
Speaker 3: irresponsible as they were in seventeen eighty one when they
Speaker 3: we're not paying our army, and Washington had to do
Speaker 3: everything he could to keep an army in the field
Speaker 3: during the Treaty of Paris discussions that eventually ended the war.
Speaker 3: We've always dealt with these things read and our nation
Speaker 3: will ultimately prevail. But we need young men, and we
Speaker 3: need them now to recognize that they need to serve
Speaker 3: their country. That freedom isn't free.
Speaker 2: Just to keep the country ready, that's right, just to
Speaker 2: keep the country ready. You know, we may not even
Speaker 2: be per se at war, but you have to keep
Speaker 2: all the stuff oiled and you know running, and the
Speaker 2: key's got to turn inside the machine so that it
Speaker 2: can turn on when that action happens. And so you know,
Speaker 2: you could totally go talk to a career counselor at
Speaker 2: a recruiting station and see if they can offer you
Speaker 2: some type of a technical job welding, diesel mechanic. You know,
Speaker 2: all these different things can help you when you go
Speaker 2: outside of the military sector to civilian world. You're doing
Speaker 2: right now. You went from being really the top of
Speaker 2: the league, top of your game in the military too.
Speaker 2: What am I doing today? You know, I'm out of
Speaker 2: the military. You know, it's like I've retired. It's like, wait,
Speaker 2: do I wake up and shuffle up and jump with
Speaker 2: the guys again, will they notice me if I go?
Speaker 2: You know, well, I was.
Speaker 3: Very fortunate in that regard. I very reluctantly left the
Speaker 3: Army mandatorily retired, as you know. But interestingly enough, after
Speaker 3: I was handed a flag by a young a young
Speaker 3: soldier and thank for my service. I walked out to
Speaker 3: the parking lot to jump into my vehicle, and I
Speaker 3: was approached by a very fine fellow who had been
Speaker 3: an intelligence officer and had been my control when I
Speaker 3: went to Somalia in nineteen ninety four. He said, hey, Roland,
Speaker 3: how you doing? He said, what are you going to do?
Speaker 3: I understand that you're being made to retire and I said, yes,
Speaker 3: that's true, and I don't have a clue right now,
Speaker 3: but I'll figure it out. And he said, well, let
Speaker 3: me help you. It turned out that at that particular juncture,
Speaker 3: in two thousand and four, and ten years after he
Speaker 3: had been my control while I was in Somalia, he
Speaker 3: said he was now a program manager for a defense
Speaker 3: contractor working at United States Central Command doing intelligence planning. Well,
Speaker 3: as you know, rad, I am a planner. I'm an
Speaker 3: operations planner. However, when I pointed that out to him,
Speaker 3: he looked at me, and he said, Hey, Roland, don't
Speaker 3: worry about that. Our plan shop desperately needs you. Would
Speaker 3: you like to have a job, And I said, well sure.
Speaker 3: So for the next eleven years I worked as an
Speaker 3: intelligence planner and analyst, and that allowed me the opportunity
Speaker 3: to continue to work with a soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines,
Speaker 3: and I deployed on five more occasions, Pakistan to Afghanistan,
Speaker 3: one time to Pakistan, and then later as a private
Speaker 3: defense contractor. After I left United States Central Command. When
Speaker 3: our contract ended, I went to Iraq to serve eighteen
Speaker 3: months supporting the Iraqi Air Force. So I was very,
Speaker 3: very fortunate in the aftermath of my career. And then
Speaker 3: when I left defense contracting in twenty twenty, I decided
Speaker 3: a year later to pick up where I had left off,
Speaker 3: and that was writing a book that I had started,
Speaker 3: believe it or not, in two thousand and five. I
Speaker 3: had put it away in two thousand and eight in
Speaker 3: order to go overseas as a defense contractor, and so
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one I picked it back up, and
Speaker 3: lo and behold, it caught the fancy of Casemate publishers
Speaker 3: and it was copyrighted in twenty twenty three and released
Speaker 3: on the fifteenth of January of this year. So I've
Speaker 3: been very very busy.
Speaker 2: I have it right here, it's on my phone, and
Speaker 2: so it's in strange company an American soldier with multinational
Speaker 2: forces in the Middle East and Iraq, and the cover
Speaker 2: is littered with all of the isaf right, is that
Speaker 2: what we're going to, we would say, is the security forces,
Speaker 2: the International Security Assistant Force.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly right. And of course at the very top
Speaker 3: of that, of course, is the emblem of which we
Speaker 3: are most proud, and that is the flag of the
Speaker 3: United States of America. But flanking it, of course, are
Speaker 3: two very very key countries that served in the multi
Speaker 3: national division the Central South, to which I was assigned
Speaker 3: as a senior advisor, Those being the country of Ukraine,
Speaker 3: which is to the left of our flag, and to
Speaker 3: the right the Polish flag. The Poles, of course, I
Speaker 3: would submit to you, along with Great Britain, one of
Speaker 3: our staunchest allies. And I was very very proud to
Speaker 3: serve with these exceptional soldiers, and very proud. I don't
Speaker 3: normally say this rad but both of those countries saw
Speaker 3: fit to have me decorated for the services that I provided,
Speaker 3: both in combat and on the staff. I'm immensely proud
Speaker 3: of those decorations, and am very very proud of the
Speaker 3: Ukrainian and Polish people, not only for what they have
Speaker 3: done in Iraq, but what they are currently doing the Poles,
Speaker 3: of course, in NATO and my Ukrainian comrade. It's fighting
Speaker 3: so gallantly against Putin and his Russia.
Speaker 2: And his evilness and his autocracy and all his This
Speaker 2: is my land and I want the empire. I don't
Speaker 2: want to get into that. I want to talk to
Speaker 2: you a little bit about well. I mean, I do
Speaker 2: want to get into it. I love your opinion on it,
Speaker 2: and I think we can agree that I don't want
Speaker 2: to fight here in the US. I was talking to
Speaker 2: a friend of mine just the other day getting an
Speaker 2: oil change. This is the same guy I talked about
Speaker 2: it before on another show. I said, are we really
Speaker 2: ready for our cal ranch right there just to get
Speaker 2: blown apart while we're talking? And he just looks at me.
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not ready for like a missile just
Speaker 2: to come sailing into us. And I said, that's what's
Speaker 2: happening over there now. Either we put effort into them
Speaker 2: to support them and keep it over there and keep
Speaker 2: that fight pushed away from our shores, or it's going
Speaker 2: to be too late here. If we have it here,
Speaker 2: it's too late. That's my opinion.
Speaker 3: Well, I have to agree with you. As a matter
Speaker 3: of fact, I would submit that America's policy since nineteen
Speaker 3: forty five, when we you know, during the Cold War,
Speaker 3: which started, as you know, in nineteen forty five and
Speaker 3: I suppose technically ended in nineteen eighty nine with the
Speaker 3: or off the Wall and the dissolution of of the
Speaker 3: Soviet Empire, we always had a force's forward strategy, which meant,
Speaker 3: of course that we kept a good portion of our
Speaker 3: army in Central Europe and in Korea, and of course
Speaker 3: we still maintained forces in both of those places, as
Speaker 3: well as in bases around the world. All of this,
Speaker 3: of course, is oriented on ensuring that we can respond
Speaker 3: and to do so very very quickly, as opposed to
Speaker 3: having to one move a large number of forces from
Speaker 3: the United States, which takes time, effort, money goes without
Speaker 3: saying so to battle the evil that confronts us on
Speaker 3: any given day forward, as opposed to on the shores
Speaker 3: of the United States of America.
Speaker 2: Jeez, you're great. I know we're not perfect in this life,
Speaker 2: and I know there's people out there that are probably
Speaker 2: your critics, and so let's ask some critical questions. Iraq
Speaker 2: happens and we send over an ambassador that doesn't speak
Speaker 2: any Arabic and he dismantles the bath party and fires
Speaker 2: the army. How do you feel about that? Oh?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's interesting. I discussed this a great deal,
Speaker 3: A great deal in a strange company. As you know,
Speaker 3: I was available once we redeployed the Peninsula Shield Force
Speaker 3: to which was the Arab division in western Kuwait. I
Speaker 3: was the senior advisor to the Saudi Arabian general that
Speaker 3: commanded the Peninsula Shield Force. And after we redeployed those
Speaker 3: forces home, I was available and they took a look
Speaker 3: at me and said, you know, we've got just a
Speaker 3: job for you. And I was flown into Baghdad, and
Speaker 3: to make a long story short, I was assigned eventually
Speaker 3: as the C three, that is, the operations officer. And
Speaker 3: because we were so shorthanded, I was the chief of
Speaker 3: staff of the Coalition Military Assistants Training Team this command,
Speaker 3: and it was commanded eventually by a very very fine
Speaker 3: major general who was a war college classmate of mine,
Speaker 3: by the name of Major General Paul Eaton, was tasked
Speaker 3: with the development of the new Iraqi Army. But I
Speaker 3: should say that the decision to tear to eliminate the
Speaker 3: Iraqi Army that was standing in the field was contrary
Speaker 3: to all of the brain trust planning that had occurred
Speaker 3: between nineteen ninety four and nineteen ninety eight, and that
Speaker 3: planning called for a force that included some ten divisions
Speaker 3: of the Iraqi Army, which of course we would have
Speaker 3: purged of outright criminals and the light we would have
Speaker 3: re armed them, reoriented them, placed advisors with each of
Speaker 3: the divisions, and then used that manpower to protect the
Speaker 3: borders of Iraq, to quell any Sunni Shia problems that
Speaker 3: arose in the aftermath of Saddam Hussein's downfall, and provide
Speaker 3: us with an opportunity in time to begin withdrawing our
Speaker 3: own forces. As we developed further, this ten division army
Speaker 3: into something even more credible to be a bulwark, particularly
Speaker 3: against the enemy to the east, and that of course
Speaker 3: is Iran. Back to the new Iraqi Army, everyone knew
Speaker 3: that Iraq had to be able to protect itself at
Speaker 3: some point, so we were told that we would develop
Speaker 3: an army of forty thousand men that would be lightly armed,
Speaker 3: would have no heavy weapons, no artillery, no air support,
Speaker 3: but that now that Saddam was gone, everything would be fine. Well,
Speaker 3: we started out on that task, but thanks to General Eaton,
Speaker 3: in large measure, we started to upgun that force, and
Speaker 3: by two thousand and four, after the new Iraqi Army's
Speaker 3: initial units failed I suppose is the right word during
Speaker 3: its battles in on the Jaff alongside US forces, they
Speaker 3: didn't do very well. They weren't prepared for that kind
Speaker 3: of fighting. The decision was made that we would upgun
Speaker 3: that force, but it took a long time, and the
Speaker 3: Iraqi Army wasn't I would dare say, a credible force
Speaker 3: until well into the decade, and as you know, the
Speaker 3: decision was made to withdraw US combat forces in large
Speaker 3: measure by twenty eleven. By that time, a number of
Speaker 3: the coalition, certainly the forces with which I had served
Speaker 3: in the Multi National Division Central South and those others
Speaker 3: that served in the Multi National Division Southeast, were withdrawn
Speaker 3: by their respective countries in the meantime, we had had
Speaker 3: a tremendous amount of Iranian infiltration in the country, and
Speaker 3: it was that Iranian infiltration infiltration put's force presence, the
Speaker 3: presence of Shia and Sunni militants that this did not
Speaker 3: like being an occupied country that saw us fighting a
Speaker 3: war through the twenty eleven And it is my humble
Speaker 3: belief that had we followed the plan, had we kept
Speaker 3: the Iraqi army in place, cleaned it up, reoriented it,
Speaker 3: rearmed it, and done the things that we were supposed
Speaker 3: to do in accordance with a plan, to include having
Speaker 3: a much larger force to occupy the country and plant
Speaker 3: it down. It is my personal belief. And I suppose
Speaker 3: it's arguable that we could have been out of Iraq
Speaker 3: with the exception of a military support group of some
Speaker 3: sort between two thousand and five and two thousand and six,
Speaker 3: and a lot of young Americans would not have to
Speaker 3: have been killed or made as a result of the
Speaker 3: extended war that we had there.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, And my viewers, my listener, they're those privates,
Speaker 2: They're the sergeants, They're the guys that were in Pallujah
Speaker 2: and a Najev crossing the Tigris. All the phase lines
Speaker 2: that you and your commanders were creating on the maps.
Speaker 2: They were calling in phase line alpha Charlie Zulu time,
Speaker 2: you know. And so those guys might be mad, but
Speaker 2: I think they're only mad maybe because of the end
Speaker 2: result versus the not battling next to their battle buddy.
Speaker 2: They're not mad because they went to combat and fought
Speaker 2: with their buddy and they had to stick together in
Speaker 2: the trenches. I think they're upset that they maybe were
Speaker 2: used when it could have been used less.
Speaker 3: Or they could have been used better. That's what I
Speaker 3: mean again and better appreciated. You know, I'm going to
Speaker 3: tell you something, rad and again not everyone would agree
Speaker 3: with me. But you know, as a young second lieutenant
Speaker 3: and as a young cadet, I so enjoyed the stories
Speaker 3: of my uncles and of course my father, who shared
Speaker 3: them with me because they knew of my interests in
Speaker 3: the army and in the army in particular and in
Speaker 3: the military in general. And I thought to myself, you know,
Speaker 3: someday I'm going to lead men into battle, and that's
Speaker 3: what I want to do. You know, I'm going to
Speaker 3: fight the enemies of the United States, and you know.
Speaker 3: I will tell you that young officers in particular all
Speaker 3: seek to be blooded in combat. Of course, I was
Speaker 3: no exception. As a matter of fact, I would dare
Speaker 3: say that I was the rule. But I was committed
Speaker 3: to combat very early in my career, primarily small unit
Speaker 3: actions in places like South America, which I would rather
Speaker 3: not expound upon, but you know later in Panama, and
Speaker 3: then of course what I saw in Somalia. As the
Speaker 3: young second lieutenant or the young sergeant grows up as
Speaker 3: a soldier, you know, he still feels the need to
Speaker 3: be tested and to be proven. But the enthusiasm for
Speaker 3: war is a rule. When you see what it's all about,
Speaker 3: or perhaps you hold somebody in your arms who didn't
Speaker 3: duck when he should have, brings a different perspective to
Speaker 3: one's life. And I will tell you that I think
Speaker 3: it's most unfortunate and our nation finds itself again on
Speaker 3: the cusp of more combat and more a war that
Speaker 3: will undoubtedly cause the severe wounds and death of the
Speaker 3: cream of our youth. It bothers me, but I'm often asked,
Speaker 3: particularly by the people who have read my book of
Speaker 3: Late Roland, would you do it again? And I always
Speaker 3: smile as I say, you know, I think I'd be
Speaker 3: a heck of a lot smarter, but I'd do so
Speaker 3: in an heartbeat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you have to make decisive decisions and move
Speaker 2: forward with what happens next. You know, there's not a
Speaker 2: crystal ball, and you can only Like the Kings of England,
Speaker 2: I went and visited a castle and his only sanity
Speaker 2: was sitting in a room for eight hours praying to
Speaker 2: a god to talk to him about his entire troop
Speaker 2: into battle as in this room. And I'm like, this
Speaker 2: is the room where he decided hours upon end. He
Speaker 2: was staying there for four or five hours, just praying, like,
Speaker 2: tell me what to do. It's so wild how some
Speaker 2: things are created war wise. You know what was his
Speaker 2: Internet connection back then?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, a wise man once said that the
Speaker 3: brain is the most powerful the mind is the most
Speaker 3: powerful weapon. You know, I never met a guy who
Speaker 3: didn't believe in God in combat. And I know you've
Speaker 3: heard that phrase before, but I've got to tell you
Speaker 3: it's true. I'll tell you a funny story. Rad and
Speaker 3: I had the distinct privilege in honor of commanding the
Speaker 3: five Away, their born infantry in Panama they're born and
Speaker 3: thank you very much. And all the way, we used
Speaker 3: to support the United States Army Jungles School, which at
Speaker 3: that time was located at a place called Fort Sherman
Speaker 3: the other side of Panama, the Atlantic.
Speaker 4: Side, and that entailed a company plus of my battalion
Speaker 4: and a part of the battalion staff to conduct a parachute.
Speaker 3: Jump into a place we called a Gatoon drop zone,
Speaker 3: which was right next to Gatoon Lake. And it was
Speaker 3: you know, of course, it was Sunday, and like everybody
Speaker 3: who prepares for a parachute jump or every unit, you
Speaker 3: have to assemble at your packing point and your pre
Speaker 3: deployment point very early in the morning for a mid
Speaker 3: morning jump, and that pretty much eliminates the opportunity to
Speaker 3: go to church. So I always used to coordinate to
Speaker 3: have our very very good Catholic chaplain come down after
Speaker 3: he would say, asked to come down to the hangar
Speaker 3: where we were preparing to preparing our equipment to board
Speaker 3: the C one thirties and conduct our parachute jump. And
Speaker 3: it never ceased to amaze me that you not only
Speaker 3: got the Catholic boys, but practically everybody knowing that they
Speaker 3: were about to hurl themselves out of an airplane, and
Speaker 3: regardless of how many times they had done it, you know,
Speaker 3: hurling yourself out of an airplane is not exactly a
Speaker 3: natural act. It is a very unnatural act. And we
Speaker 3: do it because it's another way to get to the enemy.
Speaker 3: And it requires a great deal of training and confidence
Speaker 3: and orientation and courage, frankly, particularly for the kinds of
Speaker 3: things that combat soldiers have to do. And so I
Speaker 3: always found it interesting that everybody wanted to be a
Speaker 3: little bit closer to God on those Sunday mornings when
Speaker 3: we were going to jump into this God off it
Speaker 3: drops on where you know, it wasn't exactly a cleared area,
Speaker 3: you know, and I had guys who actually got lost
Speaker 3: in the Kuni grass which was so darn high, and
Speaker 3: the chance of going into the trees was very very good.
Speaker 3: But I always got a big kick out of church
Speaker 3: attendance on those days in the hangar, and it only
Speaker 3: reinforced my belief that when the rubber meets the road,
Speaker 3: everyone knows that the ranger six up there will look
Speaker 3: out for you if you believe, and I have always believed,
Speaker 3: and I'm here today to tell my story.
Speaker 2: You know that's very very very cool, very team work oriented.
Speaker 2: I would imagine, you know, even the guy that's like,
Speaker 2: you know, agnostic or atheist and doesn't want to, you know,
Speaker 2: deal with it, doesn't go to church normally, he's probably
Speaker 2: standing around still like I could take some of this
Speaker 2: good positive juju that you guys are all trying to
Speaker 2: get going, and I can why not have a piece
Speaker 2: of it? You know? I tell people if if he's
Speaker 2: real and I get to him, he or she and
Speaker 2: God says, rad, you're a good dude. I'm totally what
Speaker 2: you want from me. He's not. I tell you what. Okay. So,
Speaker 2: and it's funny because I just learned that God was
Speaker 2: added into the Pledge of Allegiance in nineteen fifty four.
Speaker 2: It was indivisible, one nation indivisible, and then now it's
Speaker 2: one nation under God indivisible. But what I like about
Speaker 2: it is it's not just like one God. It is
Speaker 2: God as like an overall definition. So we all know
Speaker 2: that something's bigger than us. We don't have a definitive anything.
Speaker 2: That's what's called faith. And so faith in something is
Speaker 2: the belief that helps put you forward with your front
Speaker 2: foot so that you do the best you can every day.
Speaker 2: I was raised very religious in a Mormon family, and
Speaker 2: my dad was raised Catholic converted to be Mormon. And
Speaker 2: now I just have my own belief of all that
Speaker 2: stuff that's combined and just being a good person, you know.
Speaker 2: And if you guys were all in the hangar saying
Speaker 2: a prayer, I would have no problem piling up next
Speaker 2: to you guys, shouldered his shoulder and saying, what do
Speaker 2: I say here?
Speaker 3: Well, there's one other thing about that story that I
Speaker 3: need to tell you. Rat you would have loved powling
Speaker 3: up to that crowd, because shortly after the reverend the
Speaker 3: priest was done, he always had a few extra, very
Speaker 3: small bottles of wine that he had not consecrated. And
Speaker 3: he looked at me and he said, you know, Colonel,
Speaker 3: with your permission, how about I toss out this extra
Speaker 3: wine to the boys. Now, it was just not enough
Speaker 3: there to throw anybody off. Yeah, so I said, knock
Speaker 3: yourself out. And so if there any were any agnostics
Speaker 3: or you know, atheists or whatever in the back of
Speaker 3: the crowd, I can assure you they all found a
Speaker 3: place in the crowd to get their little botty exactly.
Speaker 2: You see, it's it's just about being neighborly and you know,
Speaker 2: loving each other, but being ready to you know, destroy
Speaker 2: the enemy. And you mentioned boxing earlier, right, And what
Speaker 2: boxing does to bring this full circle for you is
Speaker 2: that it builds you up to be violent, to be humble,
Speaker 2: so you don't have to use it because once you're
Speaker 2: using boxing, it's not just one punch, it's multiple punches
Speaker 2: and you know, some bobs and some weaves. In fact,
Speaker 2: right before I got on the show with you, I
Speaker 2: just came from boxing.
Speaker 3: Oh well that's that's fantastic. Well, rat, As you well know,
Speaker 3: all young officers, you know, whether it's the Virginia Military Institute,
Speaker 3: the United States Military Academy, the citadel, the true additional
Speaker 3: upbringing of a young officer calls for several courses of
Speaker 3: instruction that go above and beyond the classroom. They include swimming.
Speaker 3: The classically trained officer is expected to know how to swim,
Speaker 3: primarily because he is required not only to be able
Speaker 3: to fend for himself but also to teach his soldiers.
Speaker 3: But above and beyond swimming, the first thing that the
Speaker 3: young cadet at VMI or West Point is introduced to
Speaker 3: is the boxing ring, because you want to develop the confidence,
Speaker 3: the courage, the ability, the fourth rightness to hold your
Speaker 3: own and aggressively pursue your opponent there in the boxing ring,
Speaker 3: but later down the road in combat as required. So
Speaker 3: the fighting skills give way to the confidence and the courage,
Speaker 3: the footwork, the physical ability, all of which boils down
Speaker 3: to an officer in the future capable of doing what
Speaker 3: Douglas MacArthur talked about in a quotation that he is
Speaker 3: often attributed to him, and that is, on the fields
Speaker 3: of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other
Speaker 3: fields and on other days are reaped the fruits the vicary.
Speaker 3: I always viewed boxing in that light, much like I
Speaker 3: did the football that I played. And oh, by the way,
Speaker 3: rad at the Virginia Military Institute, you either defeated your
Speaker 3: opponent or you bled in the f If you didn't
Speaker 3: do one of those two things, you didn't pass and
Speaker 3: you could look forward to taking the course again.
Speaker 2: Oh it's serious business. Boxing is serious business. It's tougher
Speaker 2: than MMA, and I'll say it right now on the
Speaker 2: show because in MMA they get to tap out like
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tap out, But in boxing it's like one two.
Speaker 2: Are you good? Walk to me? All right, you're fed up, bro,
Speaker 2: but you're still fighting, dude. You don't get to tap out, dude,
Speaker 2: you get knocked out, or you take a knee, or
Speaker 2: you get a towel thrown in, right, but that's like,
Speaker 2: don't ever throw the towel. And obviously, you know, we
Speaker 2: just lost Carl Weathers who played Apollo Creed you know,
Speaker 2: and Predator Dylan and Predator with Donald Schwarzenegger and huge
Speaker 2: boxing icon.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I was very sad to see that. Of course,
Speaker 3: I'm a big stallone fan between Rambow and Rocky. I mean,
Speaker 3: who was a man's man, you know? Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 3: Carl Weather's played large in all of those Rocky one
Speaker 3: through four. Yeah, I was very very sad to see that.
Speaker 2: And a lead. You know, he was a lead in
Speaker 2: the film. You know. It wasn't just like a small role.
Speaker 2: It was Apollo. I want to fight Apolo. Apollo is
Speaker 2: the man. I mean really he was yoked. I mean,
Speaker 2: if that's the definition of a boxer, that body. I
Speaker 2: am still working on it, but I've lost thirty pounds
Speaker 2: since June of last year agoing, I've got about two
Speaker 2: hundred times since I started boxing and I can't stop.
Speaker 2: I'm just there's a switch.
Speaker 3: You know what did you say that? Because you need
Speaker 3: to protect yourself and I can just defer back to
Speaker 3: my book in Strange Company when I'm with the Peninsula
Speaker 3: Shield Force. You probably read where I used to spend
Speaker 3: the evenings when I would come off patrol in the
Speaker 3: Western KUWAITI desert engaging on a number of different matters
Speaker 3: in politics, family and social issues with my Arab comrades.
Speaker 3: And of course they came from throughout the Gulf region, Kuwait,
Speaker 3: Sau Arabia, Oman and the United Arab Emirates boch Brain,
Speaker 3: just to name name several of them. And they always
Speaker 3: used to ask me, you know, Colonel tisso why are
Speaker 3: you always doing pull ups and running around the camp?
Speaker 3: And I said, well, my brothers, you know you are
Speaker 3: as officers expected to lead from the front. We have
Speaker 3: to stay in shape. And on top of that, when
Speaker 3: you are in good physical condition, you are better prepared
Speaker 3: to deal with the stress of combat, which, as you know,
Speaker 3: can be deadly. It can provoke heart attacks in the light.
Speaker 3: And besides, you must be an example to your men
Speaker 3: and look good in your uniform. You cannot be fat
Speaker 3: and out of shape. But you know, Rad, I'm going
Speaker 3: to tell you a story here. None of that really
Speaker 3: communicated well with my Arab brothers. And knowing that, having
Speaker 3: been amongst my Arab friends since nineteen ninety four up
Speaker 3: until I was assigned to the Peninsula Shiel Force in
Speaker 3: the spring of two thousand and three, I looked at
Speaker 3: them and with a smile, I said, and beside, my brother,
Speaker 3: if you remain in good shape, in good condition, you
Speaker 3: will not have to ask me to supply you with
Speaker 3: all these bottles of viagra. They were constantly asking me,
Speaker 3: ruland can you get some viagra for us? The very
Speaker 3: next day, Rad, when I I was out doing my calisthenics,
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I saw fifty or sixty guys
Speaker 3: running around the camp and doing something for their physical conditioning.
Speaker 3: And so that's when it struck me or reinforced what
Speaker 3: I always knew. You have to understand your audience, and
Speaker 3: particularly when you're in strange company, you have to understand
Speaker 3: what to say, what to do in order to convince
Speaker 3: them to do something that they may not want to do,
Speaker 3: whether it's physical training or an attacking an objective of
Speaker 3: some kind, and I found a way with regard to
Speaker 3: physical training on that particular night, and they until we
Speaker 3: stood the force down, they were out there running, joining
Speaker 3: me at my pull up bar and doing whatever else
Speaker 3: they could to kind of improve their performance, perhaps not
Speaker 3: in combat, but certainly in the bed.
Speaker 2: I love that. Oh my god, that's great. You know
Speaker 2: they didn't come back today.
Speaker 3: Well, interestingly enough, not after that night. But I've always
Speaker 3: had a lot of fun, and I have a great
Speaker 3: deal of respect for a number of the Arab officers
Speaker 3: with whom I serve In the spring of two thousand
Speaker 3: and three, and I discuss all of that and in
Speaker 3: some detail in the Strange Company.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what Colonel tisso retired Roland, Sir dude,
Speaker 2: I could say those things. I love my gig, I
Speaker 2: do I do edwar tiger stripe at the same time.
Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, being around all these different people,
Speaker 2: and did you learn the language? Did you learn you
Speaker 2: any Arabic to try to communicate with these guys and
Speaker 2: have that.
Speaker 3: Well, interestingly enough, the short answer to that question is no. However,
Speaker 3: every officer or every soldier secundered to advisory duties picks
Speaker 3: up a few words here and there you learn how
Speaker 3: to greet them, you know how to say good night,
Speaker 3: say thank you, all of those things. However, as I
Speaker 3: point out in Strange Company, very early on, growing up
Speaker 3: in Old New York, I was exposed to Spanish. I
Speaker 3: grew up in the old ethnic neighborhoods of New York,
Speaker 3: and of course there was a Hispanic neighborhood, there was
Speaker 3: a Polish neighborhood, a German neighborhood, of course, the Italian
Speaker 3: neighborhood where my family was, the Black neighborhood. And we
Speaker 3: played football in all of these neighborhoods. And as I
Speaker 3: started to get more and more into football, you know,
Speaker 3: we didn't have the fancy machines back then if you
Speaker 3: kids have today in the gyms, particularly to train the
Speaker 3: inner legs. And I was a running back, and in
Speaker 3: order to find ways to do that, I used to
Speaker 3: run down to a place called Rye Beach, And during
Speaker 3: any given day there were a number of people who
Speaker 3: happened to be from Puerto Rico who used to be
Speaker 3: on the beach there, and they used to play a
Speaker 3: game called three sided handball, and I learned to play
Speaker 3: very well. And in the course of that sports activity,
Speaker 3: I picked up a lot of Spanish. Then in high
Speaker 3: school I continued my study of Spanish, and when I
Speaker 3: was eventually found myself at the Virginia Military Institute, I
Speaker 3: was tested for a foreign language and I tested very
Speaker 3: well in Spanish and ended up studying Spanish for another
Speaker 3: four years. In the multi national division set South, there
Speaker 3: were three brigades, the Ukrainian Brigade, Polish Brigade, and the
Speaker 3: Spanish Brigade. And in the Spanish Brigade were several Central
Speaker 3: American armies L. Salvador, nic at Agua, Honduras, and the
Speaker 3: Dominican Republic. And I had to advise each of the brigades,
Speaker 3: and I went on a number of patrols with the
Speaker 3: Spanish as well as with the L. Salvadoran paratroopers. I
Speaker 3: was very very comfortable around the Elsals because they were
Speaker 3: paratroopers and special forces, and they were very very fine soldiers.
Speaker 3: A number of whom are the officers, that is and
Speaker 3: the senior NCOs were combat veterans of the guerrilla war
Speaker 3: that had been fought in their country in the eighties
Speaker 3: and early nineties. And so the fact that I was
Speaker 3: able to do as well as I did with the
Speaker 3: Spaniards and with the Central American commanders was a direct result,
Speaker 3: I think of my ability to converse with them in
Speaker 3: their native language. Not only was it very much appreciated,
Speaker 3: but it helped me to be more convincing in what
Speaker 3: I thought they needed to do in order to better
Speaker 3: conduct combat operations. And I'm very very proud of that.
Speaker 2: I love that. And I also think that, like our leadership,
Speaker 2: needs to have a different language as well as English.
Speaker 2: I understand the English first push here in the US,
Speaker 2: but it's okay if they speak Mandarin and also some
Speaker 2: Spanish or maybe some German, because there's nothing like having
Speaker 2: a conversation with someone and not thinking they're talking behind
Speaker 2: your back.
Speaker 3: Well, I absolutely concur with that. And you know, Mandarin
Speaker 3: is considered one of the most difficult languages in the
Speaker 3: world to learn. For a young officer to be able
Speaker 3: to speak that very difficult and yet very very necessary
Speaker 3: language as we look at the future and our engagement
Speaker 3: in the Pacific, I think the Army would be very
Speaker 3: very wise and all the services of course, to look
Speaker 3: at developing young speakers very early in their careers. You know,
Speaker 3: I once had a very fine officer who I mentioned
Speaker 3: in strange company. He's a superb gentleman who went on
Speaker 3: to become a senior naval officer, who as a Russian
Speaker 3: Jew was he and his family were thrown out of
Speaker 3: Russia in the nineteen eighties by Putin or whoever at
Speaker 3: that time, and they came to our great country. And
Speaker 3: this fellow, and his name is Gary Tobak, learned to
Speaker 3: speak English, and to this day, of course, he he
Speaker 3: came as a young teenager, and he learned, of course
Speaker 3: to speak English, but of course he speaks fluent Russian.
Speaker 3: And Gary, who I call Yuri Yuri. Gary, with his
Speaker 3: fluent Russian, became the first naval officer to be a
Speaker 3: foreign specialist, a foreign country specialist, and he spent a
Speaker 3: great deal of time serving our country in places like
Speaker 3: Poland and in Russia. And he went on to become
Speaker 3: a navy captain and was the senior officer in the
Speaker 3: navy when he retired several years ago. And he continues
Speaker 3: to serve our country working with the Ukrainian media in
Speaker 3: Ukraine as we speak. So here's a perfect example of
Speaker 3: a guy who could speak the language, loved his adopted
Speaker 3: country and went on to serve it. So well for
Speaker 3: nearly thirty years as a foreign area specialist.
Speaker 2: Well, we've had Roland for about an hour of time.
Speaker 2: We heard wonderful stories from him and got some insight
Speaker 2: into Iraq and going in and him as a planner.
Speaker 2: Really want to thank the retired colonel for being on
Speaker 2: the show. Roland J. Tisso Junior in Strange Company is
Speaker 2: the book an American soldier with multinational forces in the
Speaker 2: Middle East and Iraq. He also has a forward. I
Speaker 2: want to give a shout out to General retired Anthony Sizini,
Speaker 2: United States Marine Corps who gives him a foreword. Go
Speaker 2: check out his book and check out the book club
Speaker 2: that soft rep dot com, Forward slash Book hyphen Club,
Speaker 2: and go check out our merch store. And this is
Speaker 2: rad Saying Peace.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to sulf Red Radio.