Speaker 1: Oh hi there, This is let's talk about MIT's baby
Speaker 1: kind of and I'm your host live again kind of. Today,
Speaker 1: I am here with a very special episode. Like you
Speaker 1: heard with yesterday's early conversation with Jeremy Swist, we are
Speaker 1: bringing you a dramatic reading of the Emperor Julian's work
Speaker 1: what Jeremy's called the Symposium of the Caesars for his
Speaker 1: new translation. Like we mentioned there a year ago, Jeremy
Speaker 1: raised his idea with me and I was thrilled to
Speaker 1: be the one to host this incredibly cool project. It
Speaker 1: is a full cast recording of Julian's work, this mythological
Speaker 1: conversation of gods, Roman emperors, a Greek leader and others. Basically,
Speaker 1: Julian imagined a time when all the dead rulers of Rome,
Speaker 1: their first king Romulus and Alexander the Great, and handful
Speaker 1: of others had to fight over who was the best
Speaker 1: leader as judged by the gods of Olympus. Needless to say,
Speaker 1: it's fun. You can find more about the production at
Speaker 1: the link in the episode's description, and the full cast
Speaker 1: list is there too. The setting is the Imperial Palace
Speaker 1: of Antioch on a mid December evening, in the year
Speaker 1: three sixty two of the Common Era, the one thousand,
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifteenth year from the founding of Rome.
Speaker 1: This is a full cast reading of Emperor Julian's Symposium
Speaker 1: of the Caesars, presented Bye, let's talk about Matt's baby.
Speaker 2: My dearest friend, The Saturnalia is upon us. It is
Speaker 2: the season when the god Cronus has us all let
Speaker 2: loose and kid around. But I'm no good at that,
Speaker 2: you know, making people laugh or smile. I'm worried I'll
Speaker 2: just end up making a fool of myself.
Speaker 1: Oh, Caesar, is there anyone out there so boring and
Speaker 1: stuck up that they worry over how to kid around?
Speaker 1: In my opinion, kidding around should relax your mind and
Speaker 1: save you from having to worry about anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right to assume that, But I've got a
Speaker 2: different take on the matter. I mean, cracking jokes, making
Speaker 2: fun of people. I'm just not born to do satire.
Speaker 2: But for Krona's sake, we still have a tradition to follow.
Speaker 2: So in the spirit of kidding around, how about this,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you a myth, one that might have plenty
Speaker 2: worth hearing.
Speaker 1: Oh that would be so delightful.
Speaker 2: You know me.
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of any myth, but especially the ones
Speaker 1: that really get it right, because I think about them
Speaker 1: the same way you and our mutual friend Plato do.
Speaker 1: Plato's myths have much to take seriously.
Speaker 2: Zeus, Yes, ain't that the truth?
Speaker 1: So what kind of myth is it?
Speaker 2: Well, it's not one of Esov's fables or any of
Speaker 2: the sagas some long ago. No, this is one I
Speaker 2: learned straight from Hermes and self. Now, whether you'd call
Speaker 2: it something he completely made up or literally true, or
Speaker 2: a mixture of truth and fiction, well that'll be evident
Speaker 2: in the telling of it.
Speaker 1: Well, you sure introduced it like a real storyteller and
Speaker 1: a fine rhetorician too. Okay, never mind what genre it is,
Speaker 1: Get on with the story.
Speaker 2: Lend me your ears. Then it was the Saturnalia, and
Speaker 2: King Romulus was welcoming all the gods to a sacrificial feast,
Speaker 2: but he also invited the emperors of Rome. There were
Speaker 2: couches furnished for all the gods way up in outer space,
Speaker 2: or as Homer puts it, on Olympus, where the gods
Speaker 2: have their unshakable abode for all time. Now, legend has
Speaker 2: it that Queeriness arrived there sometime after Heracles did. And
Speaker 2: by Queeriness I mean the name we should all call
Speaker 2: Romulus by if we believe what he told us after
Speaker 2: becoming a god. Anyway, that's where the party was arranged
Speaker 2: for the gods. The Emperor's meanwhile, had to dine in
Speaker 2: the lower atmosphere, just within the orbit of the moon.
Speaker 2: They were kept in orbit by the lightness of the
Speaker 2: bodies they wore as clothes, but also by the Moon's gravity.
Speaker 2: Now the supreme gods had the four most exquisite couches.
Speaker 2: Cronus's couch was made of ebony that dazzled with so
Speaker 2: much divine radiance within its blackness that no one could
Speaker 2: look directly at it. It contained such an abundance of
Speaker 2: light that it would have the same effect on your
Speaker 2: eyes as I imagine it would if you stared directly
Speaker 2: into the disk of the sun. As for Zeus's couch,
Speaker 2: it sparkled more than silver and shone brighter than gold.
Speaker 2: Not even Hermes really knew what to compare it to electrum, perhaps,
Speaker 2: or some other metal. Next to these gods sat mother
Speaker 2: and daughter goddesses on golden thrones, Hera next to Zeus,
Speaker 2: Rhea next to Cronus. Even Hermes himself couldn't describe their beauty.
Speaker 2: It was beyond words, he claimed, visible only to the mind,
Speaker 2: and no easy task for speech to say or ears
Speaker 2: to hear. There will never be so talented an orator
Speaker 2: who could compass the magnitude of beauty appropriate to a
Speaker 2: vision of the gods. Now, the other gods had special
Speaker 2: furniture as well, either a throne or a couch, depending
Speaker 2: on their rank, and they never fought over them. Instead.
Speaker 2: I think Homer got it exactly right and heard it
Speaker 2: straight from the muses themselves when he said that each
Speaker 2: and every god sits steadfast and secure on the throne
Speaker 2: their decreed to sit upon, and even when they stand
Speaker 2: up at their father Zeus's arrival, they neither disrupt and
Speaker 2: alter their assigned seats, nor steal them from one another. No,
Speaker 2: each god knows their proper place in the circle of
Speaker 2: heavenly throne. Among these gods sat the Satyrs. By the
Speaker 2: looks of him, he was quite enamored of the pretty
Speaker 2: young god seated beside him, Dionysus, who was the spitting
Speaker 2: image of their father Zeus. Silenus sat there in the
Speaker 2: guise of a foster father and mentor, and gratified this
Speaker 2: gracious God's fondness for laughter and kitting around by constantly
Speaker 2: cracking jokes and trying to be funny. As soon as
Speaker 2: the party was ready for the Caesars as well, the
Speaker 2: first Caesar entered, Julius Caesar, a man driven by ambition
Speaker 2: to vie with Zeus himself for absolute power. Silenus took
Speaker 2: one look at him and said.
Speaker 3: Look out, Zeus, this fellow here is lusting for power
Speaker 3: and plotting to usurp even your throne. See how mighty
Speaker 3: and good looking he is. Though I must admit he
Speaker 3: resembles me with that bald head of his.
Speaker 2: Though the gods were more or less ignoring him, Silenus
Speaker 2: kept this kind of humor going. When Octavian Augustus entered next.
Speaker 2: Octavian resembled a chameleon, changing into all sorts of colors,
Speaker 2: now the palest white, now red, now a smoky, cloudy
Speaker 2: shade of black. At first, he surrendered himself to Aphrodite
Speaker 2: and the graces, and pretended that his eyes shot rays
Speaker 2: of light like those of mighty Helius, the sun god,
Speaker 2: so disdainful was he of anyone meeting his gaze. Silenus, however,
Speaker 2: gazed at him.
Speaker 3: Wow, what kind of motley monstrosity is this? I wonder
Speaker 3: what sort of mischief he has in store for us?
Speaker 2: This was Silenus's reaction. But then Apollo intervened.
Speaker 4: Cut the crap, Silenus.
Speaker 5: All I need to do is hand him over to
Speaker 5: Zeno of Kidium here, and before you know it, I'll
Speaker 5: have him turned into pure gold. Hey, Zeno, come over
Speaker 5: here and give my foster child some TLC.
Speaker 2: The philosopher did as he was told, and just like
Speaker 2: Zymolxus began mumbling magic spells over him. All it took
Speaker 2: was a few stoic maxims, and Octavian was transformed into
Speaker 2: a man of sound judgment and self discipline. Then Tiberius
Speaker 2: rushed in third in order. He wore a fierce and
Speaker 2: dignified expression and looked at once like a man of
Speaker 2: both modesty and soldierly dignity. But when he turned around
Speaker 2: to assume his throne, you could see all manner of
Speaker 2: bodily mutilation, burns, bruises, blisters, scabs, scars and sores, all
Speaker 2: of it grilled onto his backside by his licentious and
Speaker 2: sadistic behavior. Silenus couldn't help but notice.
Speaker 3: Dear stranger, you sure look stranger than before.
Speaker 2: But Silenus seemed to be taking things more seriously than before,
Speaker 2: and Dionysus cut onto.
Speaker 6: This, what's the matter, daddy? Why so serious?
Speaker 3: This old geezer here gave me quite a shot, so
Speaker 3: much that I've lost control of myself and become possessed
Speaker 3: by Homer's muse?
Speaker 7: Are you afraid Tiberius here will drag you along the
Speaker 7: ground by the ears?
Speaker 8: Here?
Speaker 6: He did that to one of his school teachers once.
Speaker 4: Oh, let him go cry.
Speaker 3: His way home to that little island of his then,
Speaker 3: and torture that poor fisherman instead.
Speaker 2: Silenus and Dionysus kept on trading allusions to Tiberius's time
Speaker 2: on Capri until a malignant monster came onto the scene,
Speaker 2: Gaius Caligula. None of the gods could bear to look
Speaker 2: at him, not before Lady Justus herself handed him over
Speaker 2: to the furies, who launched him straight into the pit
Speaker 2: of Tartarus. Silenus had nothing to say about him, but
Speaker 2: when Claudius showed up, then Silenus began reciting some lines
Speaker 2: from Aristophanes Knights fawning on Claudius instead of the original
Speaker 2: character Demos. Then he looked back at querness.
Speaker 3: That was a real faux pas on your part, inviting
Speaker 3: Claudius to the party without his freedman Narcissus and Palace.
Speaker 3: But still send them an invitation, and if you like,
Speaker 3: send one to his wife Messalina as well. Without them.
Speaker 3: Claudius is just a lackey in this drama, a virtual
Speaker 3: stage prop.
Speaker 2: While Silenus kept talking, Nero made his entrance, decked in
Speaker 2: laurel and strumming a guitar. Silenus gave Apollo a knowing look.
Speaker 3: I see you have a challenger in our midst King.
Speaker 2: Apolo faced his challenger.
Speaker 5: I will rip that laurel crown right off his head.
Speaker 5: He models himself on me, but not completely, and he's
Speaker 5: a cheap imitation at that.
Speaker 2: And just like that, Nero was stripped of his crown,
Speaker 2: and before he knew it was swallowed by the Cocitus river.
Speaker 2: Following this, a motley crew came crashing in the likes
Speaker 2: of vindex galba Otho and Vitellius. Silenus had a severe reaction.
Speaker 3: Oh, where in the world did you gods, find this
Speaker 3: swarm of monarchs. These monsters don't even spare your temples
Speaker 3: from going up in smoke.
Speaker 4: Don't you see I'm choking to death.
Speaker 2: Zeus looked over at his brother Serapis, pointed out Vespasian,
Speaker 2: and uttered the following commands.
Speaker 9: Syrup Is quick, sent forth, that's s Mikrinis from Egyptus,
Speaker 9: and put that fire out. Then give these orders to
Speaker 9: his sons, Titos and Domitianos. Let the older on frolic
Speaker 9: with a fro did Panvimus, and the younger being prisoned
Speaker 9: like those in the Brazen Bull of Sikelia.
Speaker 2: Nerva arrived next, a man who, despite his years, maintained
Speaker 2: his good looks, since even old age can radiate with
Speaker 2: its own beauty. He was the nicest guy you'd ever meet,
Speaker 2: and a most honest businessman. Even Silenus showed him respect
Speaker 2: and kept quiet. Hermie asked him, why you.
Speaker 6: Really have nothing to say about Nerva.
Speaker 3: I do have this to say, but it's an accusation
Speaker 3: against you gods. You let that bloodthirsty monster Dimitian reign
Speaker 3: fifteen years, but Nerva barely one.
Speaker 2: It's out of proportion, I tell you, Zeus refuted these charges.
Speaker 9: Silinos, you will drop that accusation when you see all
Speaker 9: the good emperors. I will bring in after him.
Speaker 2: Right on cue in marched Trajan, shouldering the spoils of
Speaker 2: the Dacians and Parthians. When Silenus beheld this site, he
Speaker 2: wished to be heard, but not seen.
Speaker 3: Keep your guard up, Lord Zeus, don't let your precious
Speaker 3: geany me leave your sight.
Speaker 2: Next after Trajan came Hadrian, an austere looking fellow with
Speaker 2: a long beard. He was a check of all trades,
Speaker 2: especially the fine arts. As he strolled in, he kept
Speaker 2: gazing at the heavens and prying into their secrets. Silenus, meanwhile,
Speaker 2: kept gazing at Hadrian.
Speaker 3: What's this sophist up to? You think he's up here
Speaker 3: looking for Antinous? Someone go tell him his little boy
Speaker 3: toys not here and.
Speaker 4: Put an end to his bullshitting.
Speaker 2: Antoninus Pious entered next, a man more moderate in his
Speaker 2: politics than in his sex life. He too caught Silenus's eye.
Speaker 4: The stinginess of this guy.
Speaker 3: He looks like the type of geezer who'd save on
Speaker 3: Cuman seeds by cutting them in half.
Speaker 2: After Antoninus, a tag team of brothers came trotting in Marcus,
Speaker 2: Abelius and Lucius Veris. This puts Silenus in a terrible
Speaker 2: bind because he just didn't have it in him to
Speaker 2: make any jokes at their expense, especially Marcus, although he
Speaker 2: could have made a big deal of how he screwed
Speaker 2: up when it came to his son Comitus and his
Speaker 2: wife Faustina. You see, Marcus took Faustina's death way harder
Speaker 2: than he should have, especially since Faustina was hardly a
Speaker 2: decent woman. Likewise, Marcus failed to foresee how combadists would
Speaker 2: drag the empire down with him. This was despite the
Speaker 2: fact that Marcus's distinguished son in law, Pompeianus, would have
Speaker 2: done a much better job being in charge of the empire,
Speaker 2: an even better job than Marcus in looking after commodists.
Speaker 2: Silenus could have given Marcus quite a hard time about
Speaker 2: all of this, but the emperor's personal qualities were so
Speaker 2: impressive that he was too ashamed to do so. As
Speaker 2: for Commodist himself, Silenus thought him so worthless that even
Speaker 2: ridicule would be a waste. Besides, Commodist was already spiraling
Speaker 2: down to Earth, try as he might to keep up
Speaker 2: with the heroic souls. He was a terrible flyer. Next
Speaker 2: came Pertinax. He had barely joined the party and was
Speaker 2: already complaining about his assassination. Lady Justus felt bad for him.
Speaker 10: Don't you worry, Pertinax. I'll make sure your murderers won't
Speaker 10: have the last laugh. But you're not so innocent, and either,
Speaker 10: if I'm not mistaken, you were in on the conspiracy
Speaker 10: against Marcus's boy.
Speaker 2: Next up was Septimius Severus. This iron fisted gentleman was
Speaker 2: brimming with all manner of cruelty. Salinas was too frightened
Speaker 2: to mock him.
Speaker 3: I'll keep my mouth shut about him. He's not very
Speaker 3: nice and wouldn't let me get away with it.
Speaker 2: Severus's two sons, Carakella and Gaeta, were about to sneak
Speaker 2: in after him when King Minos stopped them at the
Speaker 2: door to check their credentials. He sent Caracalla away to
Speaker 2: pay for his crimes, but gave Gheta a pass. Then
Speaker 2: he sent Macrinus off to the same place as Carikella
Speaker 2: on the charge of murdering Caraclla. Likewise, that teenager from
Speaker 2: Amesa Eligabolis got a one way ticket as far away
Speaker 2: as possible from the God's holy realm. His Syrian cousin Alexander,
Speaker 2: on the other hand, sat down in the cheap seats
Speaker 2: furthest back, upset over his assassination and crying for his
Speaker 2: royal mother Julia mammea. Silenus added insult to injury.
Speaker 4: What a big dumb baby you are.
Speaker 3: You had all the power in the world and you
Speaker 3: couldn't control your own family. You turned the imperial treasury
Speaker 3: into your mommy's private bank account, and not even your
Speaker 3: best friends could convince you to share any of it. Nope,
Speaker 3: it just all went into her privy purse.
Speaker 2: But lady justus let the boy Alexander off the hook.
Speaker 10: Don't you worry, lad None of those truly responsible for
Speaker 10: these crimes will avoid what's coming to them on my watch.
Speaker 2: Then Galianis came waltzing in after his father Valerian, but
Speaker 2: in a very different style of dress. Valerian was wearing
Speaker 2: the chains of his Persian captivity, while Galienis not only
Speaker 2: dressed like a woman, but walked like one too. Silenus
Speaker 2: quoted Euripides Phoenician women at Valerian, Who's.
Speaker 3: That helmed the hair of white horses, who leads from
Speaker 3: the front of his kingdom's forces.
Speaker 2: Then he quoted the iliad at Galianis, who's.
Speaker 4: All decked out in gold and made up like a girl.
Speaker 2: Zeus rescinded both their party invitations. Following this duo was
Speaker 2: a second Claudius, Claudius Gothicus. The gods took one look
Speaker 2: at him and liked what they saw. So magnanimous was
Speaker 2: he that the gods unanimously authorized the right to rule
Speaker 2: for him and his that is my dynasty, and considered
Speaker 2: it justified that the descendants of a man so devoted
Speaker 2: to Rome as he should remain in power for many generations. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Aurelian was making a mad dash towards the venue, thinking
Speaker 2: he could outrun those trying to haul him before King Minos.
Speaker 2: There are a host of murder charges filed against him,
Speaker 2: and he had poor excuses for avoiding all these indictments.
Speaker 2: But Helius, the son God who's my master as well
Speaker 2: as his, had bailed Aralian out on all sorts of
Speaker 2: a case before, and even now, in the presence of
Speaker 2: all the gods, Helius remained his advocate.
Speaker 5: Or really an already faced justice or have you all
Speaker 5: forgotten what the Delphic oracle said on the matter. If
Speaker 5: they reap what they've sown, then justice has served.
Speaker 2: Probus came along next, in a reign of not even
Speaker 2: seven years. This man rebuilt seventy cities and ruled quite
Speaker 2: even handedly. But for all this he suffered at the
Speaker 2: hands of godless criminals. Still, Probus was duly honored for
Speaker 2: all his achievements, especially when his assassins were brought to justice.
Speaker 2: You would think Silenus wouldn't try to make fun of him,
Speaker 2: but despite many of the gods trying to shut him up,
Speaker 2: he wouldn't listen.
Speaker 3: No, we should make an example out of him now
Speaker 3: so everyone coming in after him can be more sensible,
Speaker 3: don't you know, Probus, When doctors prescribe bitter medicine, they
Speaker 3: tend to sweeten it with something. But you are way
Speaker 3: too harsh, too rigorous, never cutting anyone some slack. Sure
Speaker 3: it wasn't right that you were assassinated, but it wasn't
Speaker 3: unexpected either. You can't get horses to do what you
Speaker 3: want unless you indulge them a bit and give them
Speaker 3: something they like. Same goes for cows and mules. People
Speaker 3: work that way too again, think like a doctor and
Speaker 3: their patience. If you can't convince them to undergo minor treatments,
Speaker 3: they surely won't let you do major surgery on them.
Speaker 2: Dionysus was amazed at this.
Speaker 6: What's gotten into you?
Speaker 4: Daddy? You're sounding like a philosopher. Who do you think
Speaker 4: it was that made you a philosopher? Kiddo?
Speaker 3: Don't you know that Socrates won first prize in philosophy
Speaker 3: in his own day for being just like me? Or
Speaker 3: do you think your brother Apollo made the whole thing
Speaker 3: up about him? Besides does everything I say have to
Speaker 3: be funny? I can be serious too.
Speaker 2: Conversation went on like this. When Carus tried crashing the
Speaker 2: party along with his sons Korinus and Numerian, Lady Justice
Speaker 2: promptly bounced them from the establishment. Then Diocletian pulled up
Speaker 2: with his entourage Maximian, Galerius and my grandpa Constantius Chlorus.
Speaker 2: They entered with arms interlocked and elegantly choreographed, not as equals,
Speaker 2: but with Diocletian at the center and the rest around
Speaker 2: him like an armed escort. And whenever one of them
Speaker 2: got too far ahead of him, he roped them back
Speaker 2: in making them stay in their lane. But Diocletian eventually
Speaker 2: got tired of this, so he took everything off that
Speaker 2: he was carrying from his shoulders and handed it all
Speaker 2: over to them, then walked like a free man. The
Speaker 2: gods were impressed with Diocletian for the harmony he forged
Speaker 2: between these men, so they gave him a first class seat,
Speaker 2: far ahead of most of his fellow emperors. But then
Speaker 2: Maximian started misbehaving badly, and Silenus, rather than doing him
Speaker 2: the honor of roasting him, simply denied him admission to
Speaker 2: the Emperor's Club. And for good reason. It wasn't just
Speaker 2: that Maximian was sexually perverted in every way imaginable. It's
Speaker 2: that he kept meddling in everything and could be trusted
Speaker 2: by no one. He was the one in the quartzet,
Speaker 2: always singing off key. Lady Justice wasted no time and
Speaker 2: made him leave the hall. I have no clue where
Speaker 2: in the world he went after that. I forgot to
Speaker 2: ask Hermes for those details. Despite this, that fine tuned
Speaker 2: quartet started transposing itself into a jarring and disharmonious cacophony.
Speaker 2: Lady Justice had to break this band up, stopping Galerious
Speaker 2: in Maxim and Dya from even laying hands on the
Speaker 2: doors to this hall of heroes. Licinius somehow made it
Speaker 2: as far as the coat room before King Minos booted
Speaker 2: him out for playing so badly out of tune. Of
Speaker 2: all these, only Constantine managed to find his way inside.
Speaker 2: He sat quietly for a while, waiting for his sons.
Speaker 2: Then constant being the second, Constantious the Second, and Constans
Speaker 2: all came in and joined him. But it was access
Speaker 2: denied for Magnetious. His policies were sound only in appearance,
Speaker 2: but not reality. The gods could see right through him
Speaker 2: and knew that nothing he accomplished came from good intentions,
Speaker 2: so they sent him packing. Now, at long last, the
Speaker 2: festivities were ready to begin. For their part, the gods
Speaker 2: were fully satisfied, and there wasn't a thing they lacked. Still,
Speaker 2: Hermes thought it proper to make this company of heroes
Speaker 2: below them prove their worth. Zeus had the same idea. Besides,
Speaker 2: Queerness had already been begging the gods to let him
Speaker 2: bring one of them up to sit next to him,
Speaker 2: but Heracles took issue with this request.
Speaker 11: I won't stand for this, Queerness, tell me why didn't
Speaker 11: you invite my dear Alexander to the party. Fine, I'll
Speaker 11: ask Zeus himself, Zeus, if you're thinking of elevating any
Speaker 11: of these guys to our level, then get Alexander to
Speaker 11: show up. If we're putting everyone to the test, then
Speaker 11: why not let someone better than all.
Speaker 6: Of them compete?
Speaker 2: Zeus agreed Heracles was right, so Alexander came on in
Speaker 2: to join the heroic company. However, neither Julius Caesar nor
Speaker 2: anyone else would give up their seat for him. Alexander
Speaker 2: did find an MPCT eventually, one conveniently vacated by Carikella,
Speaker 2: and sat down. I had claimed it, but got ejected
Speaker 2: for murdering his brother Gheta. When Seilena saw this, he
Speaker 2: tried to make Queerness look foolish.
Speaker 12: Ah.
Speaker 3: Now, Queerness, let's see if any of your Romans is
Speaker 3: a match for this one Greek.
Speaker 13: Jupiter, be my witness, There's been plenty romans no worse
Speaker 13: than him. True, my descendants admired him so much that
Speaker 13: he's the only foreign leader they call the grate, and
Speaker 13: they meant it. But just because they call him the
Speaker 13: great doesn't necessarily mean that they thought him greater than
Speaker 13: any Roman leader in their own day. Sure you could
Speaker 13: blame that on chauvinism, but it's probably true. However, we'll
Speaker 13: only know for sure when we've put them all to
Speaker 13: the test.
Speaker 2: Queerness started blushing when he said this. He was clearly
Speaker 2: nervous at the thought of his posterity only taking second place.
Speaker 2: At this point, Zeus posed a question to his fellow gods, how.
Speaker 9: Sullow we proceed, so we throw open the competition to everyone,
Speaker 9: or do we follow the procedure of athletic trials, where
Speaker 9: the athlete who defeats another even in a single match,
Speaker 9: is ranked above all the athletes the loser had beaten
Speaker 9: previously by virtue of being ranked below the present loser,
Speaker 9: and disregarding that these previous losers never competed against the winner.
Speaker 2: The gods voted unanimously for the second former procedure, as
Speaker 2: it made much more sense. So Hermie summoned the three
Speaker 2: greatest warriors to enter the lists, Julius, Caesar, Octavian, and Trajan.
Speaker 2: There seemed to be no objections to this until King
Speaker 2: Cronus took a long look at Zeus and exclaimed, this
Speaker 2: is prepostorous.
Speaker 12: Well, I can see in this contest a military emperors,
Speaker 12: but not a single philosopher. I like philosophers no less
Speaker 12: than soldiers. Let's put Marcus Urelius in running.
Speaker 2: Marcus answered Cronus's summons and showed up bearing the weight
Speaker 2: of his gravitas. His sunken eyes and furrowed brow showed
Speaker 2: the signs of overwork. Still, he beamed with indescribable beauty,
Speaker 2: but not the kind that comes from cosmetics and fussing
Speaker 2: over one's looks. He let his beard grow super long,
Speaker 2: and his clothes were plain and modest due to his
Speaker 2: ascetic eating habits. His luminous body was fully transparent. It
Speaker 2: shone like the most pure and perfect light. Once Marcus
Speaker 2: made his way into the Holy of Holies, Dionysus had
Speaker 2: a question for King Cronus and Father Zeus.
Speaker 6: Hey, dead dead dead dead dead de and you too, Grandpa?
Speaker 7: Is it ever appropriate that we gods have anything short
Speaker 7: of total perfection?
Speaker 2: Zeus and Cronus shook their heads.
Speaker 7: Well, then let's complete the ensemble by adding a hetenous
Speaker 7: to the mix.
Speaker 2: Zeus objected to this proposal.
Speaker 9: We cannot break our laws by admitting a man who
Speaker 9: rejects us as his models.
Speaker 2: So Dionysus offered a compromise.
Speaker 4: Fine, then how.
Speaker 7: About the profane contestants stand just.
Speaker 6: Outside the sanctuary.
Speaker 7: If you can make that accommodation, then I propose we
Speaker 7: call up a man who, while not totally unlike the
Speaker 7: military emperor's competing, is more of a slave to sensual delights.
Speaker 7: So come up here as far as the gates constantine.
Speaker 2: The gods agreed to Dionysus's proposal, but the question still
Speaker 2: remained what form should the competition take. Hermes suggested the following.
Speaker 6: I think each contestant should give a speech, one after
Speaker 6: the other, and offer an account of their career. Then
Speaker 6: the gods will vote for the winner.
Speaker 2: Apollo didn't think this was such a good idea.
Speaker 5: That's not how we gods conduct examinations and make judgments.
Speaker 5: This should be about what's true, not what's rhetorically persuasive.
Speaker 2: Zeus, however, found a way to satisfy both his sons
Speaker 2: while also keeping the party going into overtime.
Speaker 9: I see no reason we cannot let them deliver spieces.
Speaker 4: We will time them with a water clock.
Speaker 9: Then after that we will have a question and answer period.
Speaker 9: Where we can put their ideas to the test.
Speaker 2: Dionysus poured a couple cheap shots.
Speaker 4: Don't use a.
Speaker 7: Water clock tree, Janer Alexander might think it's full of nectar,
Speaker 7: and chug it all, and there will be none left
Speaker 7: for the other contestants.
Speaker 2: Poseidon called Dionysus out on this.
Speaker 14: Excuse me, but it's not my water. But you're beverage
Speaker 14: that those two are fond of dionys you should be
Speaker 14: more worried about your vineyards than my springs.
Speaker 2: This knocked some sense into Dionysus, so they shut up
Speaker 2: and turned their attention back to the contestants. Since Hermes
Speaker 2: had begun sounding the keynote.
Speaker 6: Now let the games begin and store the finest prizes.
Speaker 6: It's time to go all in and not be temporizers.
Speaker 6: Now heed my proclamation, you kings of yesteryear, who mastered
Speaker 6: many nations in wars of sharpened spears, Now your sharpened
Speaker 6: minds are key to victory. Intelligence decides your present rivalry.
Speaker 6: Great wisdom, some suppose is best in livelihood, to others
Speaker 6: harming foes and doing friends much good. Still, others lust
Speaker 6: for pleasure is earned by their employment, its food, and sex.
Speaker 6: They treasure which brings their eyes enjoyment, and wearing jeweled
Speaker 6: rings and clothes so soft and loose to them are
Speaker 6: blessed things. But who will win? Ask Zeus.
Speaker 2: After Hermes delivered this keynote, the contestants drew lots. By
Speaker 2: some lucky coincidence, Julius Caesar, the man who loved being
Speaker 2: number one in everything, got to speak first. However, this
Speaker 2: made him so insufferably arrogant that Alexander nearly boycotted the
Speaker 2: whole contest. Thankfully, Heracles gave him the pep talk and
Speaker 2: got him to stick around. In any case, Alexander ended
Speaker 2: up getting to speak second. But after that, each contestant
Speaker 2: just happened to draw lots in the chronological order of
Speaker 2: their respective reigns Octavian, ben Trajan, followed by Marcus and
Speaker 2: Constantine last, and so Julius Caesar led it off.
Speaker 6: Javi and the fellow gods.
Speaker 8: I was happily born after a host of great men
Speaker 8: in the greatest city on Earth, Roma, who reigns over
Speaker 8: so many more cities than any before her, that any
Speaker 8: other city would rejoice in winning second place. For one
Speaker 8: other city with a population of only three thousand that
Speaker 8: its founding conquered the ends of the earth in under
Speaker 8: six centuries. Poll other nations produced so many valiant soldiers
Speaker 8: and law givers who honors the gods.
Speaker 6: As we do.
Speaker 8: And I, born in so great and so marvelous a city,
Speaker 8: managed to surpass the achievements of not only my contemporaries,
Speaker 8: but also those of her whole history. And I know
Speaker 8: it to be a fact that none of my fellow
Speaker 8: citizens would ever even challenge my claim to first place.
Speaker 8: But if Alessandro here has the nerve to do so,
Speaker 8: tell me which of his achievements could he ever compare
Speaker 8: to mine his conquest of Persia? I suppose ha, if
Speaker 8: only he saw how many victories I racked up against Pompelo,
Speaker 8: How could Alessandro possibly think that Dariot was a more
Speaker 8: formidable general than Pompeo? To Which of them did the
Speaker 8: most valiant army pledge their loyalty? Even the best fighters
Speaker 8: formerly under Darius command the Carry made up only a
Speaker 8: tiny fraction of Pompello's forces. But Pompello also commanded the
Speaker 8: men from Europa, who made every Asiatico that brought war
Speaker 8: to their doorstep turn Tailor ran and out of Dissurope.
Speaker 8: He commands the bravest soldiers, I mean the men of Illyria,
Speaker 8: Gallia and Italia. But speaking of Gallia, shall we compare
Speaker 8: Alessandro's Balkan campaigns to my wholesale conquest of Gallia. Alessandro
Speaker 8: crossed the river Danubia once I bridged the River Rehno twice.
Speaker 8: And then there's my campaigns in Germania. Alessandro never faced
Speaker 8: any of those nations, but I challenged the Arioisto. Furthermore,
Speaker 8: I was the first Romano bold enough to sail the
Speaker 8: outer sea. Now, perhaps this acting itself is no marvel,
Speaker 8: but it is the boldness that deserves admiration. And in
Speaker 8: this I even outdid myself when I was the first
Speaker 8: to jump down from my sheep. I haven't even mentioned
Speaker 8: the tribes of Elvetzia, or Spana or Gallia, where I
Speaker 8: subjected more than three hundred cities and no fewer than
Speaker 8: two million people to the dominion of Roma. And I
Speaker 8: have yet to tell you the most impressive of my
Speaker 8: achievements and those involving the greatest risk, namely that I
Speaker 8: was forced to overcome in battle my fellow invincible and
Speaker 8: indomitable citizens of Roma or would you prefer to judge
Speaker 8: us by the number of battles we fought? I thought
Speaker 8: three times as many battles as those so called historians
Speaker 8: of his claim. Alessandro thought, surely they exaggerate. Or about
Speaker 8: the number of prisoners taken. I not only subjugated the
Speaker 8: majority of Asia, but over Ropa as well. Alessandro traveled
Speaker 8: to a Jito to go aside, seeing I mastered the
Speaker 8: country while I was master of ceremonies.
Speaker 6: Now, would you like.
Speaker 8: To judge how either of us showed mercy to the vanquished?
Speaker 6: That even my enemies.
Speaker 8: Received pardons from me, and Lady just its and knows
Speaker 8: how that repaid me for that? With Alessandro, on the
Speaker 8: other hand, not even his friends were safe from home,
Speaker 8: let alone his enemies. What's that, Alessandro, you think you
Speaker 8: can still claim victory over me? What you and all
Speaker 8: the others simply forfeit the contest right now? Or will
Speaker 8: you force me to describe the cruelty with which you
Speaker 8: treated the Kabbani in contrast to the clemency with which
Speaker 8: I treated the Alvezzi.
Speaker 6: You and people's see this to the ground.
Speaker 8: I rebuilt cities burnt down by their own citizens, was
Speaker 8: he really so hard for you to control ten thousand
Speaker 8: Grecchi when I held my own against one hundred and
Speaker 8: fifty thousand Galley. I could go on like this and
Speaker 8: have plenty more to say about myself and Alessandro here,
Speaker 8: but I was simply too busy to have much practice
Speaker 8: in ordertory. So please forgive me. If I say no more,
Speaker 8: judge me equally for both what I've said and what
Speaker 8: I have not said. You judge me fairly, you will
Speaker 8: surely grant me first place.
Speaker 2: Caesar actually wanted to say more, but Alexander, who had
Speaker 2: barely contained himself so far, now reached the breaking point
Speaker 2: and launched all his pent up rage and rivalrous energy
Speaker 2: into the following speech.
Speaker 15: Zeus and fellow gods, how long must I keep quiet
Speaker 15: and put up with this outrageous person?
Speaker 6: Can't you see?
Speaker 15: There's no end to him praising himself and slaundering me.
Speaker 15: He should have dispensed of doing either of these things.
Speaker 15: And even though I think they're equally annoying, it was
Speaker 15: even more unnecessary that he vilified my own achievements, despite
Speaker 15: the fact that he modeled his whole career upon my own.
Speaker 15: The nerve of this man so utterly shameless that he
Speaker 15: goes around lampooning his own idols. Have you forgotten, Caesar,
Speaker 15: how you broke down weeping whenever you read a history
Speaker 15: of my exploits. It was Pompey that inflated your ego.
Speaker 15: Pompey a man puffed up by his countryman, but in
Speaker 15: reality and nobody he triumphed over Africa, You say, hardly
Speaker 15: an accomplishment only made famous by the consoles kissing his ass.
Speaker 15: Then there's the war against Spartacus that wasn't even fought
Speaker 15: against real men, just a host of worthless slaves. And besides,
Speaker 15: it was really Crassus and Gellius who put down that revolt,
Speaker 15: Pompey simply etched his name on it. And what about
Speaker 15: Armenia and that whole part of the world Lucullis and victory.
Speaker 15: But Pompey got the triumph, and so the people of
Speaker 15: Rome kept on idolizing him and gave him the title
Speaker 15: Pompey the Great, as if he were greater than anyone
Speaker 15: who came before him. Tell me, what did Pompey ever
Speaker 15: accomplish that was on par with Marius the Scipios or
Speaker 15: Camellus who's now sitting beside Cornas over there, for resurrecting
Speaker 15: his city when it had all but fallen. None of
Speaker 15: those men ever took credit for someone else's achievements. If
Speaker 15: they did, it would be like if some bloke came
Speaker 15: along and put a coat of paint on a public
Speaker 15: monument that was built and funded by other people, and
Speaker 15: then put his name on it. That's exactly what Pompy did,
Speaker 15: putting his name on other people's achievements, when it's the
Speaker 15: architects and laborers themselves who deserve the most prestigious titles.
Speaker 15: So it's hardly surprising you defeated Pompey. He was no
Speaker 15: lion but a mangy fox scratching his itches. The only
Speaker 15: thing he had going for him was Lady Fortune standing
Speaker 15: beside him for so long. No sooner did she abandon
Speaker 15: him than he was swiftly defeated. And not only that,
Speaker 15: you overcame him without an iota of military expertise. That's
Speaker 15: bloody obvious from the fact that you lost the Battle
Speaker 15: of Durrakium to him after you ran shorter provisions. Don't
Speaker 15: you know that's the worst miscalculation a general can make,
Speaker 15: or pomp he had to do after that was fight
Speaker 15: a war of attrition and avoid pitched battles. But either
Speaker 15: because he was an incompetent idiot or because he had
Speaker 15: no control over the citizens under his command, he failed
Speaker 15: to press his advantage. In the end, it wasn't your
Speaker 15: superior strategy that defeated him, but his own strategic errors.
Speaker 15: The Persian armies that fell to my valor, on the
Speaker 15: other hand, were all around handsomely provisioned and experienced.
Speaker 6: But claiming to.
Speaker 15: Be the best man and best ruler shouldn't be just
Speaker 15: about achievements, but about just achievements. In attacking Persia, I
Speaker 15: was seeking justice on behalf of Greece, and if I
Speaker 15: waged war against any Greeks, it was not my intention
Speaker 15: to do them harm, but to stop those Greeks who
Speaker 15: are preventing me from crossing over to Persia and avenging them.
Speaker 15: You vanquished Gauls and Germans. You say that was all
Speaker 15: a prelude to declaring war on your own country. Could
Speaker 15: there be anything less righteous or more abominable than that?
Speaker 15: But let's return to the topic of those ten thousand
Speaker 15: Greeks you called despicable. Have you forgotten that you Romans
Speaker 15: had descended from Greeks that had colonized most of Italy.
Speaker 15: I've known this for a fact, but now I'm starting
Speaker 15: to question it. Now, let's talk about your next door neighbors,
Speaker 15: a little confederation of Greeks called the Aetolian League, you know,
Speaker 15: the ones You Romans put so much effort into making
Speaker 15: your friends and allies when, for whatever reason you waged
Speaker 15: war on them later on, how much blood and treasure
Speaker 15: did you spend trying to force them into submission? And
Speaker 15: that was at a time when Greece was already reaching
Speaker 15: old age, you could say, and against a tiny region
Speaker 15: that hardly anyone in Greece had heard of during the
Speaker 15: classical period. But if you barely succeed against the Aetolians,
Speaker 15: imagine how you fare in battle if Greece was at
Speaker 15: its peak and united against you. Remember how Pyras of
Speaker 15: Epirus made you cower in fear when he crossed the Adriatic.
Speaker 15: Then how dare you try to diminish my wholesale conquests
Speaker 15: of the Persian Empire when you've spent over three hundred
Speaker 15: years fighting the Parthians, who ruled but a small fraction
Speaker 15: of Persian territory across the Tigris, and yet you still
Speaker 15: haven't reduced it to a province.
Speaker 6: And what's stopping you.
Speaker 15: I'll tell you what's stopping you. It's those Persian mounted archers.
Speaker 15: Just ask Mark Antony about them, you know, the one
Speaker 15: who learns everything about generalship from you. Meanwhile, it took
Speaker 15: me not even a decade to breeze through those lands
Speaker 15: and conquer my way to the heart of India, and
Speaker 15: you think you have the goal to challenge me. I've
Speaker 15: been marshaling field army since I was a wee lad,
Speaker 15: and while the praises of historians will never match the
Speaker 15: matitude of my achievements, the memory of them will live
Speaker 15: on as long as life itself. In that respect, I've
Speaker 15: matched the labors of the only king I serve, the
Speaker 15: only model I imitate, I mean, the invincible hero Heracles.
Speaker 15: And only my ancestor Achilles can rival me in that respect,
Speaker 15: since he emulated Heracles as well, in so far as
Speaker 15: a mere human can follow in the footsteps of a god.
Speaker 15: As for the rest of you, gods, I think I've
Speaker 15: told you enough as I ought in defense of myself
Speaker 15: against Caesar's accusations.
Speaker 6: Though it were better to just ignore him.
Speaker 15: But if I did commit any act of cruelty, it
Speaker 15: was entirely against.
Speaker 6: Those who deserved it.
Speaker 15: Most often these were repeat offenders, but also those who
Speaker 15: didn't follow protocol. And besides, even when the circumstances demanded it,
Speaker 15: I still came to regret it later on. We all
Speaker 15: make mistakes, but it's in the spirit of remorse that
Speaker 15: saves us by making us all the wiser. But as
Speaker 15: for those who made it their aim to continually piss
Speaker 15: me off, I think I had every right.
Speaker 6: To show no mercy.
Speaker 2: Alexander spoke more like a soldier than Caesar did, but
Speaker 2: it was time for Poseidon's lackey to pass the water
Speaker 2: clock onto the next contestant, Octavian. Poseidon, however, allotted Octavian
Speaker 2: less water than for Caesar and Alexander, who both went
Speaker 2: over their time limit. But Poseidon was also still mad
Speaker 2: at Octavian for his hubris, for his claim that he
Speaker 2: would defeat Sextus Pompey quote in spite of Neptune end quote.
Speaker 2: Octavian acknowledged this, and in his quick thinking, decided to
Speaker 2: streamline his speech by not talking about other people.
Speaker 16: Jupiter and fellow gods, I will refrain from getting my
Speaker 16: hands dirty dragging others' achievements through the mud. I'll focus
Speaker 16: my speech exclusively on my own. Much like the noble Alexander.
Speaker 16: There I took charge of the state as a mere teenager,
Speaker 16: while I'm also a match from my father. Sees you
Speaker 16: here and that I campaigned successfully in Germania. Likewise, I
Speaker 16: got pulled into a series of civil wars, which I
Speaker 16: concluded with a victory at Sea off Actium by Land.
Speaker 16: I vanquished Brutus and Cassius at Philippi. While you could
Speaker 16: call Pompey son sexist, amir side quest in my grand strategy.
Speaker 16: But besides committing to battle, I also committed myself to
Speaker 16: philosophy so firmly that I encouraged everyone to speak to
Speaker 16: me as an equal, especially Athenodorus of Kanana. I never
Speaker 16: resented his honest advice, but welcomed it, as it came
Speaker 16: from a man I honored like a tutor, a father.
Speaker 16: Even likewise, I counted Audius of Alexandria a dear friend
Speaker 16: and constant companion, and some I cannot be charged with
Speaker 16: a single offense against philosophy. As for my participation in
Speaker 16: the civil wars that's so often and brought Rome to
Speaker 16: the brink of ruin. I took it upon myself to
Speaker 16: manage her affairs in such way that, by the grace
Speaker 16: of you Gods, she will remain as resilient as forged steel.
Speaker 16: How did I do it? Bistoically resisting the desire for
Speaker 16: unlimited conquest. No I thought it all through, for Rome's sake,
Speaker 16: that she should only expand to the two boundaries that
Speaker 16: nature had provided her, the Danube ben Euphradi's rivers. I mean,
Speaker 16: once I had bent the Scythians and Thracians to my will,
Speaker 16: I acknowledged that you Gods extended the length of my reign.
Speaker 16: Not so that I could keep on fighting a continuous
Speaker 16: series of wars. No, I devoted that time of peace
Speaker 16: to legislation and to reforming a system that the lust
Speaker 16: for warfare had broken. I accomplished this, I believe, because
Speaker 16: I listened to a council advisors that was on par
Speaker 16: with the best of any ruler before me. In fact,
Speaker 16: if you would let me be so bold, I'll say
Speaker 16: I had the best counselors of anyone who were ever
Speaker 16: granted such power, and the reason is that some of
Speaker 16: those rulers let unnecessary warfare be the death of them,
Speaker 16: prosecuting one campaign after another, like they're one of those
Speaker 16: ob noxious individuals who like to go around suing people.
Speaker 16: Others perished because they were consumed by luxurious living. Some
Speaker 16: even while in campaign, even when they triumphed, they cared
Speaker 16: more for debauchery and indulgence than for anything like honor
Speaker 16: and glory or their own self preservation. It turns out,
Speaker 16: as for my record in these matters, after a full
Speaker 16: review of it, I don't think I'll rank low in
Speaker 16: this contest. But it's really up to you God's, so
Speaker 16: I'm bound to accept any result.
Speaker 2: After Octavian, it was Trajan's turn to have the floor.
Speaker 2: Trajan was no incompetent orator, but he was lazy, intended
Speaker 2: to have Lucias Surah write speeches for him. Even now,
Speaker 2: He avoided giving a formal speech and instead tried parading
Speaker 2: before the gods the insignia of his triumphs over Dasia
Speaker 2: and Parthia, and shouting at them that if it weren't
Speaker 2: for his old age, he would have finished the job
Speaker 2: annexing Parthia. Silenus didn't find this excuse acceptable.
Speaker 3: What a silly man you are. You reigned for what
Speaker 3: twenty years? Alexander over here only needed twelve. Don't complain
Speaker 3: that you didn't have enough time when you spent so
Speaker 3: much of an insensuous living.
Speaker 2: This biting comment got Trajan piping mad, and while he
Speaker 2: was often too drunk to showcase his rhetorical abilities, this
Speaker 2: time his anophilia didn't hold him back.
Speaker 17: Jove and fellow gods, when I came to power, the
Speaker 17: empire was weak, you could even say it was hypnotized,
Speaker 17: possessed by the titany of Domiciano, who would rather stay
Speaker 17: put in Roma than punish Dathia for its outrageous But
Speaker 17: then I came along and became the only emperor determined
Speaker 17: enough to reduce to a Roman province any territory on
Speaker 17: the far side of the river Danubio. And to do
Speaker 17: so required me to vanquish the Dathius, who were the
Speaker 17: greatest warriors who ever lived. You see, the Dathius and
Speaker 17: unjust born, brave warriors. They also hold in high regard
Speaker 17: the teachings of Thalmoxies, and so they believed that they
Speaker 17: never actually die, but transmigrate into other bodies therefore they
Speaker 17: are more willing to die than others are to go
Speaker 17: on holiday. Despite this, my conquest of Dafia only took
Speaker 17: about five years to complete it in the eyes of
Speaker 17: all my subjects. Furthermore, I gained the reputation as the
Speaker 17: most merciful of any monarch who ever lived. That is
Speaker 17: a called hard fact that no one, not even Jolio
Speaker 17: Firsa here and and I was even reluctant to make
Speaker 17: war on party until the justice is demanded it. And
Speaker 17: when they did demand it, I took action against them,
Speaker 17: and wasn't held back by the fact that I had
Speaker 17: reached the age when a souldier may be honorably discharged.
Speaker 17: Given this record of my achievements, it is only right
Speaker 17: that you honor me above all the other contestants more
Speaker 17: than any of them. I should mercy to my subjects,
Speaker 17: terror to my enemies, and reverence for Philosophia, who descended
Speaker 17: from you gods.
Speaker 2: That was traded in speech. He certainly seemed to have
Speaker 2: outperformed all the others in regards to clemency, and the
Speaker 2: gods made it clear that they respond especially well to
Speaker 2: this quality. Marcus Aurelius was getting ready to speak next,
Speaker 2: Silenus was making side chatter with Dionysus.
Speaker 3: Ooh, here comes that stoic philosopher. I wonder what kind
Speaker 3: of wacky paradoxes and crazy theories he throw a hoss.
Speaker 2: Marcus kept his eyes fixed on Zeus and the rest
Speaker 2: of the gods. He refused to give a speech.
Speaker 18: Zeus and fellow gods, is this contest really necessary? And
Speaker 18: do I really have to give a speech? You all
Speaker 18: know everything about me. If you didn't, then it would
Speaker 18: be appropriate to tell you there's nothing you don't already know,
Speaker 18: because nothing can be hidden from you. So judge me
Speaker 18: as you see fit.
Speaker 2: This was a surprising development in which Marcus proved himself exceptional,
Speaker 2: but especially for wisdom, which I would define as the
Speaker 2: saying goes as knowing exactly when it's best to speak
Speaker 2: and when to keep your mouth shut. So it was
Speaker 2: finally Constantine's turn to give it speech. When he had
Speaker 2: first entered the lists, he was full of confidence, but
Speaker 2: now seeing how utterly his own achievements paled in comparison
Speaker 2: to all the others, really changed his perspective. To his credit,
Speaker 2: he did overthrow a couple of usurpers, but Maxentius was
Speaker 2: a wimp and hardly soldierly material, while Licinius was an
Speaker 2: old geezer with chronic bad luck, both through the scum
Speaker 2: of the earth and cursed by the gods. Constantine's foreign policy,
Speaker 2: on the other hand, was a total farce, since all
Speaker 2: he did was throw money at the problem, buying off
Speaker 2: any foreign threats. So rather than worry about this, Constantine
Speaker 2: now turned his attention to Lady Luxury, who was hanging
Speaker 2: out by the gates of the moon, far away from
Speaker 2: the gods. Constantine really had the hats for her and
Speaker 2: wouldn't stop staring at her. But even though the contest
Speaker 2: no longer mattered to him, still he felt that he
Speaker 2: had to say something for himself.
Speaker 19: I'm better than the rest of these blokes. And here's
Speaker 19: why Alexander only had to face asiatic barbarians. But I
Speaker 19: duked it out with Germans, Scythians and even my fellow Romans.
Speaker 19: So did Julius, Caesar and Octavian. Yet when they made
Speaker 19: war upon their own citizens, it was against men of
Speaker 19: honor and nobility. I, on the other hand, marched against
Speaker 19: the vileist and most abominable usurpers, and my act of
Speaker 19: bravery against usurpers is also why I'm a better choice
Speaker 19: than Trajan. Sure, he added territory to the empire, but
Speaker 19: I added back at least as much, and I reckon
Speaker 19: that regaining lost territory is just as good, if not better,
Speaker 19: than gaining it in the first place. As for Marcus here, well,
Speaker 19: he disqualified himself by refusing to say anything about himself.
Speaker 2: At this point, Salinus butted in with a question.
Speaker 3: But Constantine, aren't these achievements you're presenting us nothing but
Speaker 3: gardens of Adonnas?
Speaker 6: What do you mean gardens of Adonis? I don't get
Speaker 6: the reference.
Speaker 3: Well, Adonis was Aphrodite's boyfriend, you see, and women would
Speaker 3: plant flowers in his memory by taking some potshirts and
Speaker 3: scraping a little bit of soil into a planter, so
Speaker 3: that as soon as they bloom, they start withering away.
Speaker 2: Constantine finally got the joke, and what it said about
Speaker 2: his whole career.
Speaker 11: What a shame.
Speaker 2: There was then a period of silence. The contestants assumed
Speaker 2: the gods would now vote for the winner, and it
Speaker 2: was only a matter of time. But that wasn't yet
Speaker 2: what the gods had in mind, since they still needed
Speaker 2: the contestants to spell out the motives behind their achievements,
Speaker 2: rather than judging them based on the achievements themselves. They
Speaker 2: well knew that Lady Luck had a heavy hand in
Speaker 2: those achievements, and she herself was there on the sidelines,
Speaker 2: heckling all the contestants. The exception was Octavian because he
Speaker 2: always gave her due credit. But the gods didn't make
Speaker 2: her the referee in this competition. No, they handed that
Speaker 2: job to Hermes, and it was time for him to
Speaker 2: begin the question and answer. He began with Alexander.
Speaker 6: Alexander, what do you think is best in life? In
Speaker 6: other words, what goal did you have in mind that
Speaker 6: led you to do what you did, and, for that matter,
Speaker 6: to have done to you? What was done to you?
Speaker 15: What is best in life? Victory? Victory over everything?
Speaker 6: And how certain are you that you achieved this? Very certain?
Speaker 2: Dionysus burst out laughing and let him have it.
Speaker 7: Can you even count how many times my daughters achieved
Speaker 7: victory over you?
Speaker 2: By my daughter's Dionysus was alluding to wine grapes. In
Speaker 2: other words, they were making fun of Alexander's drinking problem. Alexander, however,
Speaker 2: had plenty of the logical maneuvers he learned from Aristotle.
Speaker 15: Up at sleeve, I did mean victory over inanimate objects.
Speaker 15: This contest isn't about that. What I mean is victory
Speaker 15: over all human beings and the whole animal kingdom for
Speaker 15: that matter.
Speaker 2: Silenus pretended to be impressed.
Speaker 3: Oh the dialecticity. Two can play at that game. Now
Speaker 3: tell me what category would you put yourself in? Inanimate
Speaker 3: objects or animate living things?
Speaker 15: Oh? Shut it, animate, sir, I was magnanimous, so much
Speaker 15: so that I could swear I'd become a god, or
Speaker 15: was even born one.
Speaker 3: All the same, Alexander, you were often defeated by yourself,
Speaker 3: by your emotions, by pain, by any such thing that
Speaker 3: overcame your wits and damaged your brain.
Speaker 15: Hold on, First of all, wouldn't you call conquering yourself
Speaker 15: and being conquered by yourself the same thing? Second, my
Speaker 15: whole argument is about victory over others, not myself.
Speaker 3: Oh you and your logic, How skillfully you call out
Speaker 3: my bulls. But anyway, remember that time you were wounded
Speaker 3: while storming a city in India. You'd have been an
Speaker 3: inanimate object if Possestus hadn't been there to drag you
Speaker 3: to safety. So tell me, were you defeated by the
Speaker 3: man who wounded you or did you defeat him?
Speaker 15: Yes, I defeated him, him and that whole city after
Speaker 15: a successful siege.
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, my divine Alexander, you most certainly
Speaker 3: did not. You were lying in the dust like Hector
Speaker 3: and the Iliad, pathetic and practically lifeless. No, it was
Speaker 3: others who fought your battles and won your victories.
Speaker 15: Yes, but they were under my command.
Speaker 3: But how could you command any army when you were
Speaker 3: practically being carried out for a funeral. Here's a snippet
Speaker 3: of Euripides. You must surely know the Greeks have a
Speaker 3: custom that should be corrected when enemy spoils by one's
Speaker 3: troops are erected.
Speaker 2: Dionysus cut him off time out.
Speaker 7: If you keep abusing Alexander like this, you might end
Speaker 7: up like Clitus.
Speaker 2: Alexander overheard this comment and was stunned into silence. Then
Speaker 2: he turned deep red and burst into tears. This conversation
Speaker 2: was over. Hermis then turned to Julius Caesar and asked
Speaker 2: him the same question.
Speaker 8: Caesar, what was your goal in life to be numerouno
Speaker 8: and never to be or even thought to be numero
Speaker 8: due to anyone in my country?
Speaker 6: Would you mind clarifying that numero uno? And what exactly wisdom, eloquence, generalship,
Speaker 6: political power.
Speaker 8: Ideally, I would have lied to be numerouno in everything,
Speaker 8: in truth and the reputation pelling that I put the
Speaker 8: greatest effort into being the most powerful citizen.
Speaker 2: Of Romais took over the discussion.
Speaker 3: And did you acquire such great power?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 8: Absolutely, I practically became lord and master of Roma.
Speaker 3: So you did acquire such power, okay, but you were
Speaker 3: powerless to make your citizens actually love you. It was
Speaker 3: all an act, you playing the part of a generous benefactor,
Speaker 3: and all of them shamelessly kissing your ass.
Speaker 8: You don't think I was beloved by the Popolo Romano
Speaker 8: when they drove Bruto and Cassio out of the city.
Speaker 3: Not when they assassinated you. What did the Popolo Romano
Speaker 3: do then? Oh right, they elected them consuls. No, the
Speaker 3: people turned on them out of love, not for you,
Speaker 3: but for money.
Speaker 4: As soon as.
Speaker 3: They heard the contents of your will read out, they
Speaker 3: realized what a fine reward was offered for taking vengeance
Speaker 3: on your assassins.
Speaker 2: This was the final word on Caesar. So now Hermie
Speaker 2: has posed the question to Octavian Augustus, won't you please
Speaker 2: tell us what you think is best in life?
Speaker 16: To be a good ruler?
Speaker 6: Define good? Even the most malicious rulers claim to be
Speaker 6: good ones. Take those plague infested tyrants of Syracuse, for instance,
Speaker 6: like Dionysius, or even worse Agathocles.
Speaker 16: You gods already know what I mean by good. You
Speaker 16: remember when I prayed to you on behalf of my
Speaker 16: grandson Gaius, as he was heading off to war, that
Speaker 16: you grant him Caesar's courage, Pompey's cleverness, and my own
Speaker 16: good fortune.
Speaker 2: Silenus was added again.
Speaker 3: It sure is ironic that this doll manufacturer is listing
Speaker 3: off all sorts of things that need the help of
Speaker 3: real gods.
Speaker 16: Doll manufacturer, that sounds ridiculous. Why are you calling me that.
Speaker 3: Because, my dear Augustus, they manufacture dolls just like you
Speaker 3: manufactured gods, starting with Caesar here, but he was only
Speaker 3: the first.
Speaker 2: Octavian showed remorse for this and did not argue against it.
Speaker 2: Hern Is now fixed his sights on Trajan.
Speaker 6: Trajan, what was your intention in doing the things that
Speaker 6: you did.
Speaker 17: I strove to achieve the same goals as Alejandro here,
Speaker 17: but with more control over myself.
Speaker 2: Silenus begged to differ more control.
Speaker 3: Ha, you were just as self defeating as Alexander. He
Speaker 3: mostly lost control of his temper, but you lost control
Speaker 3: of yourself to something far less noble, I mean, the
Speaker 3: most disgusting and scandalous pleasures.
Speaker 2: Dionysus had had enough with Silenus.
Speaker 6: To hell with.
Speaker 3: You, daddy.
Speaker 7: You're constantly butting into make each contestant the butt of
Speaker 7: your jokes and leaving them without a word in their defense.
Speaker 7: Now you better be careful how you handle Marcus here.
Speaker 7: The other contestants may have left an opening to exploit
Speaker 7: with your satire, but Marcus strikes me as that proverbial
Speaker 7: man in Somonodes built with four right angles and zero
Speaker 7: wrong ones.
Speaker 2: Hermes turned to face Marcus.
Speaker 6: What do you think is best in life? Marcus? What's
Speaker 6: the end to your.
Speaker 2: Means out of modesty? Marcus was a bit of a
Speaker 2: low talker to take the gods as models. At first glance,
Speaker 2: the scenes not such a bad answer, but even the
Speaker 2: best so far. In any case, Hermes didn't want to
Speaker 2: bother scrutinizing it. He knew Marcus would have an equally
Speaker 2: clever response to any objection, and all the other gods
Speaker 2: acquiesced in this, all except Silenus Dionysus.
Speaker 3: I don't care what you told me. I'm not letting
Speaker 3: this sophist get off scott free. Now tell me, Marcus,
Speaker 3: why did you drink wine instead of nectar and eat
Speaker 3: bread instead of ambrosia like we gods do.
Speaker 18: That's not what I meant by taking the gods as models.
Speaker 18: It had nothing to do with my food and beverage choices.
Speaker 18: Then again, I did nourish my body out of the
Speaker 18: belief that your bodies too needed to be nourished by
Speaker 18: the smoke of sacrifices. But maybe I was wrong in
Speaker 18: that belief. And I suppose it's not with our bodies
Speaker 18: but our minds that we should take the gods as models.
Speaker 2: This came out of left field and caught Silenus off guard.
Speaker 3: Okay, maybe your answer isn't totally off the mark, but
Speaker 3: you still need to explain what you think. Taking the
Speaker 3: gods as models.
Speaker 18: Consists of have as few needs as possible yourself, and
Speaker 18: help other people as many as you can as much
Speaker 18: as you can.
Speaker 4: You mean you were entirely without needs.
Speaker 18: I wasn't, but I suppose that old body.
Speaker 4: Of mine did have a few.
Speaker 3: All Right, you went on that score, Well done, Marcus.
Speaker 3: But I've got other ammunition in my arsenal. There's still
Speaker 3: a matter of your son Commodus and your wife Faustina.
Speaker 3: Having Faustina deified highly inappropriate. Letting commodists inherit the empire illogical.
Speaker 3: But the gods modeled those actions too. For Faustina's deification, I.
Speaker 18: Can appeal to the words of Homer when he said
Speaker 18: that a good and sensible husband loves and cherishes his wife.
Speaker 18: As for making Commodus my heir, I can make an excuse.
Speaker 4: Out of Zeus.
Speaker 18: Tell me what did he say in the Iliad when
Speaker 18: he was giving aries a tongue lashing.
Speaker 9: Oh, it would have blasted you with thunderbolts long ago
Speaker 9: if I didn't love you as my true born son.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 18: And besides, I had no idea Commodus would turn out
Speaker 18: so rotten. You know how teenagers are, with their violent
Speaker 18: swings between virtue and vice. Had I seen him careening
Speaker 18: down the path to no good, I wouldn't have put
Speaker 18: any power in his hands, but as it turned out,
Speaker 18: that power corrupted him. And again I was simply imitating
Speaker 18: Achilles the way I treated Faustina, while Zeus was my
Speaker 18: model for how I treated Commodus. And besides, I was
Speaker 18: hardly doing anything unprecedented. It always has been the custom
Speaker 18: for children to inherit their parents' property. It's what every
Speaker 18: parent hopes for. And I was hardly the first emperor
Speaker 18: to deify an empress. Faustina was but one of many
Speaker 18: others who received such an honor. Maybe whoever established these
Speaker 18: presidents hadn't really thought it through, But it just seems
Speaker 18: wrong to exempt my closest family members from a practice
Speaker 18: that's been around for so long. But the gods would
Speaker 18: have already known all this, even if I didn't just
Speaker 18: lose control of myself and go off the rails and
Speaker 18: to some lengthy defense speech after all, So please accept
Speaker 18: this apology, Zeus and fellow gods. Instead of that one.
Speaker 2: Marcus finally stopped talking. So Hermes, now let Constantine answer
Speaker 2: the question, what.
Speaker 6: Do you think is best in life?
Speaker 19: Constantine, maximizing profits, Make as much money as you can
Speaker 19: and spend it on everything your heart desires, and spoil
Speaker 19: your friends with it too.
Speaker 2: Silenus irrupted in laughter and came down on him hard.
Speaker 3: Oh man, Constantine, you really let yourself go. You should
Speaker 3: have gone into the banking business. But with that lifestyle
Speaker 3: of yours, you're better off opening a candy store or
Speaker 3: a beauty parlor. Your hair do and makeup already gave
Speaker 3: that away, But now it's your very thoughts that find
Speaker 3: you guilty as charged.
Speaker 2: There was another period of silence in which the gods
Speaker 2: all cast their secret ballots. While men votes went to Marcus,
Speaker 2: Zeus decided to deliberate with his father Cronus in private.
Speaker 2: When they came out of this conclave, they tasked Hermes
Speaker 2: with reporting the results.
Speaker 6: Gentlemen, while it's true that you showed up for competition,
Speaker 6: we gods follow a different set of rules when it
Speaker 6: comes to passing judgments. While the victor may celebrate, the
Speaker 6: vanquished are no worse off. Therefore, we bid every one
Speaker 6: of you to come up and sit beside the god
Speaker 6: of your choice and live life like you've lived before,
Speaker 6: under the guidance of a divine patron. Gentlemen, make your selection.
Speaker 2: As soon as Hermes ended this announcement, Alexander made a
Speaker 2: bee line straight for Heracles. Then Octavian ran to Apollo,
Speaker 2: while Marcus went in for a group hug with Zeus
Speaker 2: and Cronus, but Julius Caesar was quite disoriented and kept
Speaker 2: wandering in circles until mighty Aphrodite and Ares had enough
Speaker 2: of this pitiful sight and called him over. Trajan hustled
Speaker 2: in the same direction as Alexander and took his seat
Speaker 2: next to him. Constantine, however, searched in vain for the
Speaker 2: model of his own lifestyle among the gods, so he
Speaker 2: turned his attention back to Lady Luxury and ran straight
Speaker 2: into her tender embrace. She dressed him in a long
Speaker 2: flowing coat of many colors and tricked him out with cosmetics.
Speaker 2: Then she led him away to Lady Indulgence. Jesus was
Speaker 2: also shacking up with her, and Constantine found him there,
Speaker 2: preaching to the masses.
Speaker 20: Come to me, all you seducers, all you murderers, all
Speaker 20: you defilers and perverts, Come to me, and be not afraid,
Speaker 20: for I need only wash you with this here water,
Speaker 20: and I will make you clean. Wallow and sin after sin,
Speaker 20: and I will make you clean again, so long as
Speaker 20: you beat your chests and bang your heads.
Speaker 2: Constantine greeted Jesus with a smile and summoned his children
Speaker 2: to him. But as soon as Constantine the Second, Constantious
Speaker 2: the Second, and Constans all departed from the Parliament of
Speaker 2: the Gods, the furies descended upon them with a vengeance,
Speaker 2: tormenting father and sons alike, no less for their rejection
Speaker 2: of the true gods than for spilling the blood of
Speaker 2: their own family. Zeus, however, granted them a reprieve from
Speaker 2: their suffering in recognition of their dynastic forebears, Claudius Gothicus
Speaker 2: and Constantius Chlorus. But Hermes reserved the last word for myself.
Speaker 6: Julian, I will grant you access to the special knowledge
Speaker 6: of Father Mithrus. Obey his commandments. In so long as
Speaker 6: you live, you'll be moored in a safe harbor by
Speaker 6: a line that never phreates. And when the time comes
Speaker 6: for you to set sail into the beyond, your highest
Speaker 6: hopes will be fulfilled. For this God will stand by
Speaker 6: your side as a navigator and a friend.
Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening. This was so much fun
Speaker 1: to be a part of, even if I judged my
Speaker 1: own acting skills listening back, It's Okay, I'm just thrilled
Speaker 1: to have had a place for it, for Jeremy to
Speaker 1: put this piece out into the world. I would love
Speaker 1: to do more full cast recordings like this, like not
Speaker 1: that I have the time to coordinate something so epic,
Speaker 1: which is why it was really exciting that Jeremy wanted
Speaker 1: to do it all. But Gods is it fun? So
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows in the meantime what a perfect
Speaker 1: one off? This was honestly like a bunch of Roman emperors,
Speaker 1: but they made it so great all the same. Let's
Speaker 1: Talk about MIT's Baby is written and produced by me
Speaker 1: Live Albert, though not in this case. MICHAELA. Smith is
Speaker 1: the hermes to My Olympians, better known as the assistant producer.
Speaker 1: Laura Smith is the production assistant and audio engineer. This
Speaker 1: special episode, though, was translated from the ancient Greek and
Speaker 1: directed by Jeremy Swist. It was recorded by Jeremy Swist
Speaker 1: and fellow cast members. Recordings were engineered by Christopher Swist
Speaker 1: at even Fall Studios in Spofford, New Hampshire, US and
Speaker 1: produced in loving memory of Laurence P.
Speaker 16: Swist.
Speaker 1: The podcast is part of the iHeart podcast Network. Listen
Speaker 1: on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Help me
Speaker 1: continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the
Speaker 1: ancient Mediterranean by becoming a patron, where you will get
Speaker 1: bonus episodes and more. Visit patreon dot com slash myths Baby,
Speaker 1: or click the link in this episode's description. I am
Speaker 1: live and I love this shit.