Speaker 1: Mute for us. If it doesn't work, you're just not
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Speaker 1: I'm straight talk with the guys in the community.
Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on?
Speaker 3: It is rad and I am hosting another episode of
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Speaker 3: Book hyphen Club. Go check out Ford Slash Book hyphen
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Speaker 3: the note with our library of books that you may
Speaker 3: want to read. Go read a book, all right.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: With that said about books, I have a book. It's
Speaker 3: called Life and Death at Abbey Gate written by staff
Speaker 3: Sergeant Michael Cook, and I believe there's another person Michael
Speaker 3: who is joining me today is Michael who wrote that
Speaker 3: book with you.
Speaker 2: What's their name? Robert Conlin was my co author, A
Speaker 2: great author, a great dude. So it's a privilege to
Speaker 2: write with him. Welcome to Soft Rep Radio. Michael, hey Man,
Speaker 2: thanks so much. I've been looking forward to this one
Speaker 2: for a while, so I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Thanks to Daniel for hooking it up. He's like, hey,
Speaker 3: you want Michael, and I was like, we want Michael
Speaker 3: on Super Bowl Sunday. Now we don't know the score,
Speaker 3: all right, we don't know anything yet. It's about noon
Speaker 3: Mount Standard time when I'm recording this. This will go up
Speaker 3: in about a week. So let's see. I'm gonna go
Speaker 3: with the Kansas City Chiefs. I'm gonna do say twenty
Speaker 3: three to seven beautiful.
Speaker 2: So I'm a Michigan guy. I don't really care what
Speaker 2: the score is, but I you know, I'm daydreaming that
Speaker 2: Jake Moody RX field goal kicker is going to kick
Speaker 2: the winning field go with two seconds left for the Niners.
Speaker 2: So that's what I'm hoping for.
Speaker 3: Okay. So there you have it. That's our predictions. Okay,
Speaker 3: And I just want to say thanks for playing along.
Speaker 2: With that.
Speaker 3: Now to get into more of a serious topic. You
Speaker 3: were United States Army Reserves for many years. You know,
Speaker 3: some people say three six years, what'd you do? Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I was an engineer. Twelve Whiskey was my mos
Speaker 3: and then twelve Hotel, So yeah, I spent six years
Speaker 3: in the reserves. My unit was for eighty six Engineer
Speaker 3: Company out of Toledo, Ohio. So you know, I just
Speaker 3: did the reserve thing for the majority of my career
Speaker 3: and then one deployment to Afghanistan in twenty nineteen and
Speaker 3: twenty twenty. Now for my listener out there that thinks
Speaker 3: maybe you drive a train as an engineer, Yes, sure,
Speaker 3: exactly as an engineer, right, you got like in college,
Speaker 3: there's mechanical, there's electrical, THERE'SX. What is it that you're
Speaker 3: engineering focused on? Yeah, so engineers wear many hats. In
Speaker 3: the military, especially in the army. We were as twelve Whiskeys,
Speaker 3: we focused on construction more than anything. So overseas we're
Speaker 3: you know, building bee huts, building up security, building joint
Speaker 3: operation centers. I mean really whatever the military needed us
Speaker 3: to build, we would build. So very similar to Navy
Speaker 3: cbs is what a lot of people are familiar with.
Speaker 3: That's the same thing in the army, or even like
Speaker 3: a community planner for a local city. Sure, right, like
Speaker 3: you could probably cross that job into something in a
Speaker 3: city civilian world as an engineer. Yeah, sure, absolutely, yep.
Speaker 3: We know that you're an author. Is that your full
Speaker 3: goal now that you've gotten out in the military, is
Speaker 3: moving forward with books or is there something that you've
Speaker 3: transitioned to outside of that as a reservist obviously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I got out of the army. I'm no
Speaker 2: longer in the reserves. I got out last October. I
Speaker 2: guess I'm still technically in the IRR, but I think
Speaker 2: it would take a pretty big active war to get
Speaker 2: reactivated at this point. But you know, with the political
Speaker 2: climate right now, who knows. I have a civilian career.
Speaker 2: So I'm in sales for a great construction company that
Speaker 2: makes everything in the United States, so that's something we're
Speaker 2: really proud of. And then yeah, I get to do
Speaker 2: some writing on the side, So it's definitely a passion
Speaker 2: of mine. I think I'm going to continue to do
Speaker 2: it after this book is done as well.
Speaker 3: So you're still in construction, I am, yep, exactly. So
Speaker 3: you went from were you construction before the art, before
Speaker 3: you went reserves?
Speaker 2: I was so Initially when I joined the military, I
Speaker 2: actually wanted to do military intelligence, so like thirty five
Speaker 2: mic was mos I wanted since I'm a dual citizen,
Speaker 2: I have a citizenship in Sweden, I couldn't qualify for
Speaker 2: the top secret clearance. So they are pretty much like
Speaker 2: either you can renounce your citizenship in Sweden or you
Speaker 2: can pick a different job. So that made it pretty
Speaker 2: easy for me. I was like, well, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to give up my citizenship, you know, that's my plan
Speaker 2: b if things go sour here in the United States.
Speaker 3: So I love that you're a citizen. Thank you for serving,
Speaker 3: you know, thanks for joining curious. It was actually cool
Speaker 3: being over in Afghanistan because we at one base, we
Speaker 3: got to serve with the Swedes as well, so that
Speaker 3: was pretty cool.
Speaker 2: So like, wait, you're.
Speaker 3: Swe too, You're like, yeah, I'm Swede.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just wearing the American flag all on my shoulders.
Speaker 2: But yeah, So after I couldn't get that job, I
Speaker 2: decided go in and become an engineer because that's what
Speaker 2: I had experience on the civilian side, so it made sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and was your recruiter pretty honest with you when
Speaker 3: you went through your career counselor if you will.
Speaker 2: Quote unquote, Yeah, yeah, for the most part, I don't
Speaker 2: think there was any any big issues. Yeah, it was fine.
Speaker 2: I know I've heard horror stories. Sure for me, I
Speaker 2: didn't have any of those.
Speaker 3: So would you encourage somebody who might be listening right now,
Speaker 3: who's in the construction trade, who might want to wear
Speaker 3: the uniform and serve as a reservist or you know,
Speaker 3: take that step. Would you encourage that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I would encourage everybody to join the military.
Speaker 2: I think everybody should serve. Honestly, it was six of
Speaker 2: the best years of my life. I mean, especially my
Speaker 2: year end deployment in Afghanistan, you know, learning how other
Speaker 2: people live, building that bond with the members of my platoon.
Speaker 2: It was one of the best years of my life.
Speaker 2: So absolutely be all that. You get a better life
Speaker 2: in the army reserves. Yeah, the reserve, you know, you
Speaker 2: get you get a little bit of both. You kind
Speaker 2: of get the best of both worlds. You get to
Speaker 2: go play army on the weekends, but then you get
Speaker 2: to go home, so you don't have to deal with
Speaker 2: as much of the bullshit, as active duty does on
Speaker 2: a hundred percent. I had an active duty drill sergeant
Speaker 2: who got bronchitis on the first week because you know, germs,
Speaker 2: and then uh he a reservist came in to replace him,
Speaker 2: and he's like, all.
Speaker 3: Right, everybody, one, two, three. It's like, hey, man, all right,
Speaker 3: this guy is not so bad. Yeah, okay, Well, thanks
Speaker 3: for encouraging my listener out there to possibly take that
Speaker 3: next step. Now, I'm gonna read a little bit about
Speaker 3: your book here that I was sent over from Daniel.
Speaker 3: So it's going to give me a second to read,
Speaker 3: and let me just go ahead and introduce you and
Speaker 3: your book amidst some of the America's darkest hours in Afghanistan,
Speaker 3: Life and Death at Abby Gate displays humanity at its finest,
Speaker 3: quoted Major Tom Schumann at the United States Marine Corps,
Speaker 3: who's also author of best selling book Always Faithful.
Speaker 2: Right, So I'm gonna read.
Speaker 3: What this says here is as the American government began
Speaker 3: the disastrous mass evacuations of its Afghan allies, a group
Speaker 3: of American veterans saw the writing on the wall. The
Speaker 3: people who had supported them on the ground over the
Speaker 3: past two decades were going to be left behind. Instead
Speaker 3: of watching the sideline, watching on the sideline, they sprang
Speaker 3: into action. The effort became known nationally as hashtag Digital Dunkirk,
Speaker 3: in reference to the civilian aspect of the evacuation of
Speaker 3: soldiers from the beaches of Dunkirk in nineteen forty, as
Speaker 3: America's last days in Afghanistan came to a chaotic end,
Speaker 3: and an ad hoc group of veterans, intelligence assets, and
Speaker 3: legislative orders undertook an extraordinary mission to honor the US
Speaker 3: battlefield creed to leave no comrade behind. Relying on cell
Speaker 3: phones and satellites as their weapons, they worked feverishly around
Speaker 3: the clock to help evacuate as many Afghans who had
Speaker 3: supported US troops over the past twenty years as possible
Speaker 3: as the desperate massive Afghans tried to flee brutal Taliban rule.
Speaker 3: Marines of the Second Battalian First Marines worked at Hamid
Speaker 3: Karzaid International Airport's Abbey Gate in conditions that brought combat
Speaker 3: hardened veterans to tears. After an ISSUS suicide bomber detonated
Speaker 3: his s vest, killing thirteen US super Service members. Operations
Speaker 3: came to a halt. This is told through the eyes
Speaker 3: of Michael, his Afghan friend Abdul, and the two to
Speaker 3: one Marines on the ground, including a marine squad leader
Speaker 3: who personally led the Afghans through the airport. Life and
Speaker 3: death of Abby Gate tells the story behind the story
Speaker 3: of the mass evacuation of over one hundred and twenty
Speaker 3: four thousand Americans and Afghan allies during a two week
Speaker 3: period in the summer of twenty twenty one. I get
Speaker 3: kind of choked up on it, Michael, and it's because
Speaker 3: I've lived through it and watched all of that, you know, happen,
Speaker 3: and the collapse of the Afghan you know what we
Speaker 3: were hoping would happen, where the Afghan army would rise
Speaker 3: up and help defend itself and take on the task
Speaker 3: of doing that just fall within itself. There was really
Speaker 3: no there was no end game to the out of
Speaker 3: getting out. It was kind of left in shambles for
Speaker 3: the presidency that was coming in to take power by
Speaker 3: signed by former Trump the President Trump in December of
Speaker 3: twenty two or December twenty second, prior to Biden becoming president.
Speaker 3: So here we are left with this quagmire of pulling
Speaker 3: out Taliban being invited to Camp David Whitehouse through Trump.
Speaker 2: You know, all this stuff's.
Speaker 3: Happening, and then all of a sudden, Biden's coming in
Speaker 3: and everyone's got this Rubik's cube of disastrous shit happening.
Speaker 3: And here you are, Michael, tried just to get in
Speaker 3: and get people who you know need to get out
Speaker 3: because of the Taliban rule.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: They beat feet, they torture, They don't want women to
Speaker 3: have any rights, they don't want them to show their hair,
Speaker 3: they don't want them have jobs, be educated or smarter
Speaker 3: than they are because they are. It's really just a
Speaker 3: really weird quagmire, bro, And you're involved in your book
Speaker 3: dives into that.
Speaker 2: Right yeah.
Speaker 3: And I mean it was so fast forward a little bit,
Speaker 3: I guess. But Abdullah Muhammed are the two main characters
Speaker 3: in my book. They were contractors that we worked with
Speaker 3: up in Maser Sharif in northern Afghanistan. But you know,
Speaker 3: more than being coworkers, we were friends. Right, so when
Speaker 3: Afghanistans start to fall, you know, the focus from me
Speaker 3: and people that served with Abdul Muhammad was just straight,
Speaker 3: you know, we need to figure out how to get
Speaker 3: these guys out. That's really what the majority of the
Speaker 3: book is about. And you know, obviously anybody watching the
Speaker 3: Afghanistan withdrawal just knows what an absolute nightmare and shit
Speaker 3: show it was. I mean, you mentioned that, you know,
Speaker 3: the ANA, the Afghan National Army, fell very quickly, right,
Speaker 3: And you know, there's all all sorts of assessments from
Speaker 3: our intelligence agencies on how long the ANA was going
Speaker 3: to be able to hold out. Some said six months,
Speaker 3: twelve months, some said that they were going to be
Speaker 3: able to hold Kabul forever and the Taliban would never
Speaker 3: take it over. Obviously what they took it over in
Speaker 3: just a matter of days. So it was just a
Speaker 3: huge intelligence failure obviously on our part. And I know
Speaker 3: a lot of people blame the ANA for not really
Speaker 3: standing up and fighting, but at the same time you
Speaker 3: have to put yourself in their shoes and think about
Speaker 3: what are they fighting for? At that point, you know,
Speaker 3: we have a bandoned them, their own president has abandoned them,
Speaker 3: they have no leadership, a lot of them probably haven't
Speaker 3: been paid in months, and the Talibans at their front door,
Speaker 3: you know, ready to slaughter their wives and children.
Speaker 2: It's like, what would you do? In that situation. So
Speaker 2: you know, to me, I really don't blame the A
Speaker 2: and A at all. They're just trying to survive and
Speaker 2: provide for their family, just like any American family would.
Speaker 3: They kind of just had to dissolve and blend back
Speaker 3: into society like it's not me exactly, wasn't me because
Speaker 3: these guys are coming down with this hard rule of
Speaker 3: AK forty seven law.
Speaker 2: Right oh right there.
Speaker 3: At your doorsteps, doesn't shoot you, They don't care.
Speaker 2: There's just like there's I mean, it's still continuing to
Speaker 2: this day, which is you know, what I'm most frustrated
Speaker 2: about is just how we're over two years removed from
Speaker 2: that situation and we're still not doing shit, right. I mean,
Speaker 2: we're we're still slowly evacuating people out of there, our
Speaker 2: SIV applicants, but it's just an absolute disaster. So you know,
Speaker 2: I get reports every single day of our Afghan allies
Speaker 2: still getting slaughtered today.
Speaker 3: Right, you know, And you know, I didn't realize that
Speaker 3: the one of the air bases was Russian that we
Speaker 3: had occupied, which is now being taken back by the Taliban.
Speaker 3: It's like this wholegram yep, yeah, exactly. I didn't know
Speaker 3: that was a I thought, oh, hey, you know, it
Speaker 3: was like an Afghan base, but it was really a
Speaker 3: Russian base that we went and it took over and.
Speaker 2: It was yep, at Bagram Airfield. And you know, we
Speaker 2: could go on forever about the failures of this, but
Speaker 2: oh well, while we're talking about Bogram, I'll say this.
Speaker 2: You know, Bogram was a very secure base, right, that
Speaker 2: was the center of US movement in Afghanistan. And when
Speaker 2: I was there in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, you know,
Speaker 2: and actually on my way out, you know, we were
Speaker 2: some of the last troops in Afghanistan and the place
Speaker 2: was a ghost town. I mean, there was probably a
Speaker 2: few thousand troops in Bogram and it was still extremely secure, right,
Speaker 2: And I mean like some of the guys that I
Speaker 2: deployed with, that had deployed previously in previous years, you know,
Speaker 2: they had been there when Bogram had one hundred thousand people.
Speaker 2: So for it to still be such a secure base
Speaker 2: with a few thousand troops and then for US to
Speaker 2: run the evacuation out of h Kaya, which is a
Speaker 2: civilian airport that didn't have any security and only one
Speaker 2: working runway, where Bogram had multiple was just again a disaster.
Speaker 2: You know, we should have held onto Bogram. Instead we
Speaker 2: handed it over to the a NA and a botched handoff.
Speaker 2: We didn't even really tell them we were leaving. We
Speaker 2: shut off the lights and took off one night, and
Speaker 2: ultimately that led to the Taliban taking over Bogram. But
Speaker 2: that's you know, that's where the evacuation should have taken place,
Speaker 2: because we could have easily defended it for as long
Speaker 2: as we wanted to, and we could have got all
Speaker 2: our allies out, you know, but instead we ran it
Speaker 2: out of h Kaya and obviously thirteen of our troops
Speaker 2: got killed and hundreds of Afghans got killed because of
Speaker 2: that decision possibly so well, just failure all around.
Speaker 3: Well, we watched the aircraft as the C seventeen Globe
Speaker 3: Master took off and closed up its wheels and what
Speaker 3: the C five's and whatever taken off with all of
Speaker 3: the who's inside, just they couldn't take who was on
Speaker 3: the outside. And yeah, they didn't know that that was
Speaker 3: going to close up and see all they thought they'd
Speaker 3: probably go up in the aunt of the landing gear
Speaker 3: or whatever. Still would have been a bad situation. And
Speaker 3: you know that was a disastrous media moment for the world.
Speaker 2: To see that mm hmm. And I think that, I mean,
Speaker 2: that just shows the desperation of those people. Imagine being
Speaker 2: so desperate that you're willing to hold onto the wheel
Speaker 2: well of an airplane taking off. And I mean they're
Speaker 2: not dumb, you know, like you said, maybe they didn't
Speaker 2: realize that the wheel was going to collapse on itself,
Speaker 2: but they knew that there was a ninety nine percent
Speaker 2: chance of death holding onto the wheel well of that plane,
Speaker 2: and they still hold on. Yeah, they still thought that
Speaker 2: was a better choice than staying and living in a
Speaker 2: country under Taliban rule.
Speaker 3: Oh maybe they thought that the plane just wouldn't take off,
Speaker 3: you know, like, oh, we'll just hold on, they won't
Speaker 3: roll with us. Those pilots are like, yeah, like we
Speaker 3: have a mission, bro. Sorry, right, that's so crazy, And
Speaker 3: that's got to be heavy on their hearts, you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, those pilots and the crew of that aircraft.
Speaker 2: I'm not let's not you know, war for sure, Absolutely no,
Speaker 2: there was you know, moral injury as a term that's
Speaker 2: going around a lot right now from the Afghanistan withdrawal.
Speaker 2: And you know, for my book, I interviewed a ton
Speaker 2: of marines that were at abby Gate from two to
Speaker 2: one and one eight, and man, these guys carry around
Speaker 2: a heavy burden, and just the things they saw were
Speaker 2: things that no human should ever have to see. Of
Speaker 2: just how disaster it was the conditions at Abby Gate.
Speaker 2: I mean death everywhere.
Speaker 3: Mothers, the baby being handed to the marine that we
Speaker 3: saw that like three week old child. The mom was
Speaker 3: just like or whoever was throwing the baby up to
Speaker 3: the marines.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not only that, I mean there was mothers that
Speaker 2: were literally throwing their babies over the twelve foot tea walls,
Speaker 2: just hoping that there was Americans on the other side.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, you know, there was constantine wire on top
Speaker 2: of these tea walls, and some of the babies were
Speaker 2: getting stuck in the constantine wire and just bleeding out
Speaker 2: there before anybody could get to them. I mean, it was.
Speaker 2: It was as crazy as you could possibly imagine. There
Speaker 2: was you know, children getting crushed to death at Abby
Speaker 2: Gate in the shit filled canal, and the Marines were
Speaker 2: doing everything they could to get to them, but there
Speaker 2: was just you know, if you've seen pictures, you just
Speaker 2: know how many people or there is just a massive
Speaker 2: humanity and these marines just couldn't get there to save
Speaker 2: save these kids. So there's there was a ton of
Speaker 2: stories like that.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, you have a friend who was over there and
Speaker 3: he was he got out four hundred people. He was
Speaker 3: the SAS former SAS they and they captured them. They
Speaker 3: didn't know he was, says when they captured him, they
Speaker 3: just thought, he's like, I have permits and I have
Speaker 3: all the things you guys require of me to do
Speaker 3: the things and move through your country, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: And so they still just captured him and just beat
Speaker 3: his feet for weeks and he and then they finally
Speaker 3: let him go.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Now he tells his story and it's just like, you
Speaker 3: know how he got four hundred people out? And I mean,
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a it's a vibe here in Utah.
Speaker 3: So I own a simple, fun airsoft wargame environment where
Speaker 3: we go and I sell the equipment and the gear
Speaker 3: that is like plate carriers, et cetera. And here I
Speaker 3: have some dude coming in with a beard like yours saying, Hey, rad,
Speaker 3: I'm Micha.
Speaker 2: What's up.
Speaker 3: He's like, I just need six of those plate carriers please.
Speaker 3: I was like, what's team of air soft?
Speaker 2: Are you on.
Speaker 3: Right? It's a whole different airsoft team and he's like yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, and this guy was going to Ukraine to
Speaker 3: go there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Then Afghan thing was happening, and that was all intertwining
Speaker 3: with it, and they were picking up the gear for
Speaker 3: that as well. And so here I am just thinking,
Speaker 3: like trying to outfit my sport of airsoft war games.
Speaker 3: But I got dudes coming in saying they need this, this,
Speaker 3: this pouch, all my m four pouches, all these pouches,
Speaker 3: radio pouches, you know, at a good price. By the way,
Speaker 3: I'm really a really good, fair and priced warlord. Let
Speaker 3: me tell you right now, Okay, come in and visit
Speaker 3: my shops. You know, I'm not trying to plug it.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying the realization of someone like, you know,
Speaker 3: they're going in outside of the regular you know ways,
Speaker 3: they're just coming into different shops. I remember my dad
Speaker 3: being on a Green Beret team and he went to
Speaker 3: radio shack to buy his radios.
Speaker 2: Wow, back in the eighties. Yeah, on their own. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: We saw a bunch of guys going and serving as civilians.
Speaker 2: You know Scott Man who wrote the book Pineapple Express,
Speaker 2: awesome dude. Saved a lot of lives. Guys like Tim Kennedy,
Speaker 2: Chad Robashaw, and Nick Pomachhano. They were called save our Allies.
Speaker 2: They flew in there as civilians, got a ton of
Speaker 2: people out. Nick Pomashano actually was the one that helped
Speaker 2: me get Abduah Muhammad manifested on a flight out. So
Speaker 2: just you know, phenomenal work from those guys and just
Speaker 2: dropping everything to go over and spend their own money.
Speaker 2: One of the guys you know, sold his house or something,
Speaker 2: refinance his house just so he could fund this project
Speaker 2: to get people out. So we saw, you know, a
Speaker 2: lot of selfless acts of bravery, obviously, people putting their
Speaker 2: lives on the line to go over and do the
Speaker 2: right thing and try to help our allies out. That's
Speaker 2: exactly what I saw coming through the shop doors. It's
Speaker 2: just like, yep, you know, all right, cool, totally different
Speaker 2: ballgame when it's not airsoft like that, you know, yet
Speaker 2: there's a vibe about the spirit of that person, and
Speaker 2: I'm just like, Okay, well, what can I help you with? Yeah?
Speaker 3: For sure, you know, I hope you call your hits. Yeah,
Speaker 3: holy yeah, man, that's the real deal over there. And
Speaker 3: you know, so I have a lot of guys that
Speaker 3: go and do the real deal, but then they play
Speaker 3: airsoft just to like, you know, get it out of
Speaker 3: their system, and you know, maybe they're done with the
Speaker 3: real deal and they just want to like kind of
Speaker 3: I don't know, where do you get an opportunity to
Speaker 3: frag a grenade into a trench unless you're playing like
Speaker 3: paintball or war games, you know. So it's like, if
Speaker 3: it's still itching in you, you can go look up
Speaker 3: your local airsoft community and just probably just play. They'd
Speaker 3: love to have you. Yeah, whoever's out there, Yeah that,
Speaker 3: but it sounds like something I need to check out.
Speaker 3: Some of my marines, you know, they they take the
Speaker 3: M four rifle and they see it and it looks
Speaker 3: and feels just like their real one, and they go
Speaker 3: to pull the charging handle out and it's still a toy.
Speaker 3: Clam You're like, oh, I'm sorry that I didn't mean
Speaker 3: to really pull it all the way out, you know,
Speaker 3: because they're mostly electric driven, so there's no sure cycling
Speaker 3: of that bolt. But for the aesthetics, you know, holy cow.
Speaker 3: So I mean when you're when you're going over in
Speaker 3: your book, you go over there, right, you go over
Speaker 3: to rescue.
Speaker 2: No, So I spent the whole evacuation here in mission again. Actually,
Speaker 2: So that's that's really what the whole digital Dunkirk network
Speaker 2: was about, is you know, a bunch of veterans, most
Speaker 2: of which had probably served in Afghanistan or had some
Speaker 2: ties to Afghanistan, but some didn't at all and just
Speaker 2: wanted to do the right thing. You know. We saw,
Speaker 2: we saw our government drop the ball and we made
Speaker 2: promises to these partners. You know, these these Afghans fought
Speaker 2: with us, blood with us, served shoulder to shoulder with
Speaker 2: us for twenty years, and their promise protection through the
Speaker 2: Special Immigrant Visa Program commonly referred to as the SIV program,
Speaker 2: and our government just completely dropped the ball. And was
Speaker 2: you know, the writing was on the wall. We could
Speaker 2: we could see that these people were going to get
Speaker 2: left behind. You know, back to the whole h Kaya location.
Speaker 2: When I found out the evacuation was being run out
Speaker 2: of h Kai, you know, I was doing the mental
Speaker 2: math of you know, how many runways do they have
Speaker 2: just one? How much time do we actually have and
Speaker 2: how many SIV applicants are there, and the math just
Speaker 2: clearly wasn't adding up, like these people were not all
Speaker 2: going to get out. So that's when this this network
Speaker 2: called digital Kirk really formed up. And it really wasn't
Speaker 2: an organized thing at the beginning. It was just a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of different chat rooms on Instagram, on the
Speaker 2: signal on WhatsApp of all these people coming together and
Speaker 2: essentially creating like a joint operations center online. So individually, like,
Speaker 2: we had very little information, right Like I came to
Speaker 2: this group with just two names, Abdullah Muhammad. But collectively
Speaker 2: we realized we had a ton of information like who
Speaker 2: was working what gates, who had phone numbers to you know,
Speaker 2: marines standing at what gate, and what documentation the State
Speaker 2: Department was requiring at that moment, and so together we
Speaker 2: had just all the information you could possibly need. So
Speaker 2: this whole, this whole movement that whoever came up with
Speaker 2: a name digital Dunkirk is a genius because it fits perfectly.
Speaker 2: But this whole movement happened from our computers while we're
Speaker 2: sitting here at home, so a lot of people are
Speaker 2: working their day jobs here and then at night obviously
Speaker 2: when it's daytime in Afghanistan. Everyone's just hitting the phones
Speaker 2: and the computers, just trying to find pays to get
Speaker 2: their guys out.
Speaker 3: So it's just it's just it's a lot more convenient
Speaker 3: today to just communicate. You know, there's a lot more
Speaker 3: avenues and you're not getting a newspaper article from a
Speaker 3: combat attack in Vietnam two weeks later, yep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you kind of put that aside.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like because two weeks of past and
Speaker 3: now it's like you're seeing it happen, like this is
Speaker 3: kind of real time kind of call of duty satellite stuff.
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, I mean it was very impressive what this
Speaker 2: group was able to do from the US just on
Speaker 2: our phones and computers, and so, you know, I'm so
Speaker 2: proud to see those veterans and not only veterans but
Speaker 2: civilians that joined in too, just step up and grab
Speaker 2: the ball when when our government fumbled, you know, and
Speaker 2: continue downfield. And the amount of lives that this group
Speaker 2: was able to save was just staggering.
Speaker 3: So you know, I still, you know, just want to
Speaker 3: think why did we sell so much equipment to the
Speaker 3: tale of It or to the you know, A and
Speaker 3: a before during you know, right before he signed the
Speaker 3: President Trump, I'm calling him out right now for this,
Speaker 3: right sold billions of dollars of equipment and then went
Speaker 3: and signed the pull out accord to get out for Biden,
Speaker 3: why do you think, what do you think about that,
Speaker 3: you know, him spending selling all that stuff, yeah, and
Speaker 3: then pulling out of it automatically, which is out there.
Speaker 3: It's it's just what it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, I mean, in my buck, I tried
Speaker 2: not to get too political. I blame both presidents, but
Speaker 2: sure they both had made decisions that were just.
Speaker 3: Well Biden was during Obama too, so I'm not trying
Speaker 3: to get him anything, you know, but again, these are
Speaker 3: what I'm asking specifically, is like, yeah, yeah, so I'm
Speaker 3: guessing that they, you know, back to the intelligence assessments,
Speaker 3: I'm guessing they thought.
Speaker 2: They were going to be able to hold out a
Speaker 2: lot longer than they were able to. I think that's
Speaker 2: probably what the administration was thinking. But again, it's just
Speaker 2: it didn't make any sense. And had we run a
Speaker 2: proper evacuation and run it out of a secure location,
Speaker 2: we could have stayed until we got all that equipment out,
Speaker 2: but instead we put an end date on it, and
Speaker 2: we left a bunch of our allies behind, and we
Speaker 2: left millions, billions of dollars of equipment. You know, Now,
Speaker 2: the Taliban has biometrics, some of which contains the information
Speaker 2: of our allies that are still stuck there. They have
Speaker 2: night vision goggles, they have everything that we have. They
Speaker 2: have black hawks.
Speaker 3: So I saw the video of like I think, on
Speaker 3: a TikTok where like they're looking I don't know if
Speaker 3: it was actual or if I'm seeing propaganda, but it
Speaker 3: showed like them pivoting the nose trying to fly it,
Speaker 3: and it like rolled, and they're like, this is what
Speaker 3: we just left behind, you know, the black hawks and such.
Speaker 2: And you know, I know those require a ton of maintenance,
Speaker 2: so who knows how long they're actually gonna be able
Speaker 2: to hold out, But I do know that also potentially
Speaker 2: Russia and China are offering assistance for maintenance for those
Speaker 2: types of things.
Speaker 3: So see, I was thinking that maybe the Taliban was
Speaker 3: going to fight China and so we need them as
Speaker 3: an ally. And so the whole plan was to leave
Speaker 3: the equipment there to outfit the Taliban so that they
Speaker 3: can now defend against Russia and China as an ally
Speaker 3: of the US because I mean, let's face it, they're
Speaker 3: very war very warheartened they are. I will say that
Speaker 3: China is doing their best to maintain relationships with the
Speaker 3: Taliban because the Taliban has a whole bunch of resources
Speaker 3: that China wants. Of course, they've already entered agreements for
Speaker 3: some mining operations. I want to say it's lithium.
Speaker 2: Don't quote me on that, but I know that China
Speaker 2: is currently in Afghanistan.
Speaker 3: Bobby, excuse me? Did I say that out loud?
Speaker 2: Yep. There's many things that they want, so right now
Speaker 2: they seem to be allies. Hmmm.
Speaker 3: My next question stirring in my head. I'm trying to
Speaker 3: figure that one out right there, So I'm just like,
Speaker 3: all right, all right, and again I just want to
Speaker 3: hear your opinion on it. You know, you wrote such
Speaker 3: an in depth book Life and Death at Abby Gate, right,
Speaker 3: and where can we find that? Is that out? On everything? Amazon,
Speaker 3: at Barnes and Noble?
Speaker 2: Is it? Yeah? Anywhere you buy your books you'll be
Speaker 2: able to find it. You can also find it obviously Amazon,
Speaker 2: and you can find out my website, which is Michael
Speaker 2: Cook dot com. Spell my name a little different as
Speaker 2: we talked about before. It's I K A. E. Lcook
Speaker 2: dot Com is an easy place to find it as well.
Speaker 2: And that's right. Because you're a dual citizen, so you're Swede,
Speaker 2: I am. Yeah. My mother was born in Sweden. I
Speaker 2: was born in the United States. But because because of that,
Speaker 2: I get to have dual citizenship and be able to
Speaker 2: travel under a Swedish passport.
Speaker 3: Oh that's dope. Is it blue? It's I think it's
Speaker 3: red red. She doesn't make any sense, almost diplomatic, like, hey,
Speaker 3: red passport, you know, and it's like one a little
Speaker 3: special ambassador coming through.
Speaker 2: Bro.
Speaker 3: That's cool. Sweden, huh. I'd love to go over there.
Speaker 2: Do you visit? Yeah? I have a ton of family there.
Speaker 2: My my grandparents and uncless are all still there, so
Speaker 2: I try to get over there once every couple of years.
Speaker 2: Gorgeous country, you know, beautiful people. Is there fjords in Sweden,
Speaker 2: not like there is Norway? Yeah, if you want to
Speaker 2: see for fjords, go to go to I think Western
Speaker 2: Norway is the best place for sure. But Sweden's definitely beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm definitely have that in my bloodline on my twenty
Speaker 3: three and me DNA nice Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mom's the
Speaker 3: Viking on the family side. Dad's related to all the royalty,
Speaker 3: So I get you. You look like a Viking.
Speaker 2: Yeah right.
Speaker 3: I'm just way domesticated though, So I'm a domesticated Viking. Bro.
Speaker 3: That fire's gas. I didn't have to like spart nothing
Speaker 3: to get it going. Okay, I'm so domesticated. It's like,
Speaker 3: oh man, that's good. You know. Yeah, I might shave
Speaker 3: the side of my head, put a nice skull tattoo,
Speaker 3: let the hair grow out. I don't know nice.
Speaker 2: You know. One other thing though, as I'm sitting here
Speaker 2: thinking about this, we're talking about China and Russia, though,
Speaker 2: is you know the other thing that's been happening is
Speaker 2: Russians have been recruiting former an A soldiers to come
Speaker 2: fight in Ukraine for them, which again is easy to
Speaker 2: make judgment on, I think, but when you think about it,
Speaker 2: these ana who are hiding in Afghanistan from the Taliban,
Speaker 2: you know, it's not a bad solution because a lot
Speaker 2: of them are on the run in Afghanistan. They're literally
Speaker 2: in hiding hoping they don't get slaughtered. So Russia's offering
Speaker 2: them a chance to hey, come here, come fight for us.
Speaker 2: We'll pay you, we'll keep your family safe. It's not
Speaker 2: again as if you're a father. That doesn't sound like
Speaker 2: a horrible solution. So just another crazy thing that's happening
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 3: You know. Also, what's going on in Afghanistan from sources
Speaker 3: that I've talked with, is that there's just villages that
Speaker 3: are just disconnected from every modern function that you could
Speaker 3: think of, and they have just been living in this
Speaker 3: primitive style life happily as tribes. Yeah right, living over there,
Speaker 3: and they don't even know what the talent or what
Speaker 3: Afghanistan is. Sure, yeah, what's this word Afghanistan? They're like,
Speaker 3: you mean my land?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I mean there's shit, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: examples of Afghans and rural areas thinking that US troops
Speaker 2: were still Russians, you know, and all right, that that
Speaker 2: invasion was still happening. So yeah, I mean there's some
Speaker 2: people out there that they don't have any like track
Speaker 2: of time. They don't really know, they don't know how
Speaker 2: old they are. I mean, they live a very simple life,
Speaker 2: which is crazy for us. Harvest work in the mountains. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so here we have here we have like you know,
Speaker 2: cabal falling, but they don't really even maybe know cabal exists.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, absolutely, they get intruders in their perimeters, yes,
Speaker 3: villages like who are these what is this?
Speaker 2: What is this this.
Speaker 3: Alien ship landing in my backyard? Yeah, And a lot
Speaker 3: of them just want to be left alone, kind of
Speaker 3: like as you mentioned, I mean, they're they don't necessarily
Speaker 3: like the Taliban, they don't like the US. They just
Speaker 3: want to be left alone.
Speaker 2: And they're gonna obviously side with whoever is going to
Speaker 2: make their life the easiest. So if the Taliban comes
Speaker 2: into town and they start, you know, if they start saying, hey,
Speaker 2: we're going to kill your family unless you tell us
Speaker 2: where the Americans are, They're going to tell them where
Speaker 2: the Americans are. And then when the Americans come into town,
Speaker 2: they're going to do the same thing for them. They're
Speaker 2: just trying to survive, right, So they don't I don't
Speaker 2: think a lot of them really care who's in power.
Speaker 2: They just want to be left.
Speaker 3: Alone, right, And that's what I'm saying, because like even
Speaker 3: the power can't even really reach them unless they go
Speaker 3: looking for these people, these tribes in these villages. So
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, Afghanist such a beautiful country, and
Speaker 3: they do have beautiful people and beautiful eyes. And you know,
Speaker 3: I've seen time life photos of you know, these photos
Speaker 3: of these women over there that are just like war stricken.
Speaker 3: Their eyes show million miles stare.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, I mean, think about somebody who's
Speaker 2: my age, I'm almost thirty five that grew up in
Speaker 2: Afghanistan has pretty much been at war their entire lives.
Speaker 2: I mean it's all they know, right, they just know war.
Speaker 3: Even me, I'm forty six, so seventy seven, right, I
Speaker 3: mean the Russians came in seventy nine.
Speaker 2: Right, It's like in the eighties, yep. So I mean
Speaker 2: there's just always been conflict. There probably always will be
Speaker 2: conflict there.
Speaker 3: Even Rambo did a Rambo three where he was in Afghanistan,
Speaker 3: and you know, at the very end of it he
Speaker 3: says special thank you to the beautiful people of Afghanistan
Speaker 3: because he filmed that whole thing in Afghanistan, and the
Speaker 3: same kick and rush his ass.
Speaker 2: Yeah I gotta go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they play he plays the actual goat game where
Speaker 3: they grab the goat on the horses and they're racing
Speaker 3: each other and they throw it in the circle. So
Speaker 3: if you go watch Rambo three Sylvester Stallone, dude, I
Speaker 3: think you'll like it. Okay, yeah on my list now, yeah, dude,
Speaker 3: because not only is he ripped right, it's Rambo dude.
Speaker 2: Oh man, oh I love that. I love it.
Speaker 3: I've seen them all, of course I have. I'm an
Speaker 3: aged child due. So yeah, is there anything you're going
Speaker 3: to be doing. Furthermore, you're going to be writing more
Speaker 3: about your you know, life and death of Abby Gate
Speaker 3: and all this, what's going on? You got other books,
Speaker 3: we'll say, focused on this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm certainly still focused on Afghanistan. I
Speaker 2: have a podcast called The Afghanistan Project podcast that I
Speaker 2: do with an amazing co host named Beth Bailey, who's
Speaker 2: a reporter for Fox News and Washington Examiner, and you know,
Speaker 2: we it kind of started as a as a place
Speaker 2: to educate people still stuck in Afghanistan as to what
Speaker 2: their pathways might be as far as what visas they
Speaker 2: might qualify for, because dude, it's so complicated. I remember
Speaker 2: the first time I started going into the down the
Speaker 2: SIV rabbit hole, just trying to figure out what documents
Speaker 2: might be required for Abdul Muhammad. As an American English speaker,
Speaker 2: it's a disaster. It's so hard to figure out what
Speaker 2: to do as an Afghan that maybe speaks a little English,
Speaker 2: almost certainly doesn't read or write English. Some of them
Speaker 2: can't even read and write in their own language. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's literally impossible. So we really wanted to do something
Speaker 2: to try to help those people understand what pathways they
Speaker 2: qualify for. So that's kind of how it started. It's
Speaker 2: evolved into a little bit more than that. Now. We
Speaker 2: talk to a lot of people that have served in Afghanistan,
Speaker 2: people that served at Abbey Gate, talk a lot about
Speaker 2: moral injury as to what these troops went through during
Speaker 2: the evacuation. But yeah, we're still doing that and I
Speaker 2: think that's something that we'll continue to do so again
Speaker 2: in the Afghanistan Project podcast. And then we'll see, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm focused on this book right now. It's just coming
Speaker 2: out right now, so I think I'll, you know, focus
Speaker 2: on this a little longer, maybe take a break, and
Speaker 2: then we'll see if I might write something again. So
Speaker 2: and we'll see.
Speaker 3: You think, do you think any Afghans are trying to
Speaker 3: come in through the southern border as immigrants right now?
Speaker 3: Yes they are, and uh, do you think that they
Speaker 3: should be able to I think that just yes or no?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I think the people that qualify for an
Speaker 2: SIV should be allowed to enter the country. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that they should be able to have their SIV.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: What if they don't have their SIV. What if it's
Speaker 3: your friend, your buddy that translated for you and he
Speaker 3: needs to get into the US. Are we going to
Speaker 3: allow him to immigrate into the US just like that.
Speaker 2: That's a tough one.
Speaker 3: No, I want to answer. Come on, you got friends
Speaker 3: at Fox, let's go. I want to get from that.
Speaker 2: I would say, yes, people that serve the United States
Speaker 2: deserve to be here.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, okay, okay, facet yeah right, okay, So even
Speaker 3: the wife of that person deserves absolutely person.
Speaker 2: You don't want to be separating family. That doesn't make
Speaker 2: any sense. You don't want to bring the men here
Speaker 2: and have the women and children stuck in Afghanistan. So yes,
Speaker 2: I think anybody that served the United States of America
Speaker 2: in a war zone should have safe passage the United
Speaker 2: States one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, exactly, and especially if they're coming out of
Speaker 3: Afghanistan because look, look what we're going over there and doing, right,
Speaker 3: going over there and snagging dudes and bringing them back
Speaker 3: into the US just to be here, right, and just
Speaker 3: saying hey, just stay low, lay low, you know, like,
Speaker 3: don't worry about the wall. We'll just get you on
Speaker 3: an airplane to fly you over it, right, I mean,
Speaker 3: that's what. Let's talk about that, right, Because everybody's so
Speaker 3: obsessed with the southern border and like people coming into
Speaker 3: the country, But here we are trying to get people
Speaker 3: into the country any anyway from Afghanistan.
Speaker 2: Is that any different? Sure? Yeah, makes sense. I mean yeah,
Speaker 2: like I said, anybody that we made a promise to
Speaker 2: these people and then we bailed on them. And during
Speaker 2: the Doha Talks, we were negotiating directly with the Taliban.
Speaker 2: We didn't even allow the Afghan government in on the discussion, which.
Speaker 3: Is talking at the Joha talks. Do you know, do
Speaker 3: you recall who that was at the Doha talks? What
Speaker 3: like who physically donder there? I mean the State what administration?
Speaker 3: Are you referencing State Department for the most part, which
Speaker 3: under what administration?
Speaker 2: Though? Of the Doha Talks? What do you mean what administration.
Speaker 3: Are you referencing for the Doha talks When we had
Speaker 3: the Doha talks and it all fell apart. What was
Speaker 3: the administration where it all fell apart? Was that the
Speaker 3: Biden or was that the Trump administration? Oh?
Speaker 2: I see what you're saying. Well, it didn't necessarily fall
Speaker 2: apart because we made an agreement with the Taliban, So
Speaker 2: the Doha agreement. Who made the agreement?
Speaker 3: That was Trump? Yeah, that was Trump. So he made
Speaker 3: the Doha agreement excluded the Afghan government from those talks,
Speaker 3: which was complete bullshit, right, So we're negotiating straight with
Speaker 3: the Taliban for people that were not including on the talks,
Speaker 3: and we're going to leave them there. It reminds me
Speaker 3: of of of Iraq when we sent over an ambassador
Speaker 3: who didn't know any Arabic whatsoever, and he dismantled the
Speaker 3: army and the Bath Party when they were supposed to
Speaker 3: use the army to defend Iraq and he's like, you're
Speaker 3: all fired, you're all fired. And I don't even speak
Speaker 3: your language. It's like, yeah, man, that's why I'm wondering, Like,
Speaker 3: you know, like we see you know, I want to
Speaker 3: see a president that speaks the language.
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, i'd like to see that.
Speaker 3: I'd like to see that, you know, just like, hey man,
Speaker 3: Spanish is cool, you know Canadian?
Speaker 2: Hey speak something other than BS. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: To us because we sit here and watch this, you
Speaker 3: have you know, I have friends that have gone over
Speaker 3: and been beaten to get people out. You've had friends
Speaker 3: that have gone over and sacrificed their lives to get
Speaker 3: their friends out that help them. You know, you mentioned
Speaker 3: people like Tim Kennedy. He's Special Forces right, green beret.
Speaker 3: You know, he probably had translators and friends who were
Speaker 3: helping him in Afghanistan while he was doing all that stuff.
Speaker 3: You know, how could you not want that friend of yours.
Speaker 3: I have a friend I'm not going to say who
Speaker 3: it is, Northern Alliance commander, right, and I'm just not
Speaker 3: one of And I'm just going to say I know
Speaker 3: he's here and he's happy, and you know, he did
Speaker 3: his time with working with the US in the time
Speaker 3: and now he's back in the US. So I'm happy
Speaker 3: for him and his family and his large family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: But here in Utah, Yeah, well, yeah, I still want
Speaker 3: to give him out, you know, But sure, he's a
Speaker 3: great dude. Whish I'm happy birthday. I'm friends with him
Speaker 3: and nice. Yeah, you know, and no one would ever
Speaker 3: recognize him because he just sits around, maybe kind of
Speaker 3: being the janitor someplace there. You go, you're like, oh really, yeah, yes,
Speaker 3: commander speaking of the Northern Alliance. And you know what, now,
Speaker 3: the Northern Alliance is kind of the NRF, the National
Speaker 3: Resistance Front. So the Northern Alliance was led by a
Speaker 3: commander Masud, who was murdered by al Qaeda on September tenth,
Speaker 3: I believe, two thousand and one, so one day before
Speaker 3: nine to eleven, because the al Qaeda knew that he
Speaker 3: was going to be the you know, United States ally
Speaker 3: here in Afghanistan. So now that the Taliban has taken
Speaker 3: over his son, the new commander Masud is now in
Speaker 3: charge of the National Resistance Front, so, which is kind
Speaker 3: of like Northern Alliance two point zero, and they're the
Speaker 3: they're fighting the Taliban currently, So they're the only group
Speaker 3: that I know of that's currently actually engaged in combat
Speaker 3: against the Taliban trying to take Afghanistan back.
Speaker 2: For the people. So I had the privileg to be
Speaker 2: able to get fly over to Vienna actually and meet
Speaker 2: him and spend three days with the with the NRF
Speaker 2: for an article I was writing, and you know, I
Speaker 2: got to spend some time with him, and he was
Speaker 2: very educated. He had a very professional vibe about him.
Speaker 2: I left there believing that he wants the best for
Speaker 2: the people of Afghanistan and he wants to take back
Speaker 2: the country and give the power back to the people.
Speaker 2: So it's a very unique and cool experience to be
Speaker 2: able to, you know, go meet him and spend some
Speaker 2: time with them. So, I you know, as far as
Speaker 2: I know, the US government isn't backing him. I think
Speaker 2: they should at least have some open dialogue with them,
Speaker 2: but so far I don't think there is any. But
Speaker 2: I hope that they're you know, able to accomplish their
Speaker 2: goals and defeat the Talban. There's probably some Red Cell
Speaker 2: team out there, probably, I mean, I'm sure they're communicating
Speaker 2: with the CIA or something. But who knows.
Speaker 3: Somebody's drinking Nike will and going to sleep at night
Speaker 3: with a out of stuffy sneezy yeah, I think arrest medicine.
Speaker 2: Someone's waking up in the morning.
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you that, dude, Holy cow, Wow,
Speaker 3: So you're not gonna miss being in the army. You
Speaker 3: don't think you're good with your six?
Speaker 2: I'm good, I think. I mean, going through this whole
Speaker 2: evacuation process, I think made me realize that I'm probably
Speaker 2: more valuable as as just a normal citizen, as a civilian,
Speaker 2: than I than I could be as an Army soldier,
Speaker 2: because you know, the military here was really handcuffed when
Speaker 2: it came to evacuation. I mean, I had generals calling
Speaker 2: me asking for help getting people out from both the
Speaker 2: Air Force from the Army, you know, so for them
Speaker 2: to be calling a E six reservist for help, you know,
Speaker 2: really put it in perspective for me that I think
Speaker 2: there's a lot more I can do as a civilian
Speaker 2: than I can serving in uniform. So, you know, I
Speaker 2: had my fun, I did my deployment, loved every second
Speaker 2: of it. But I'm ready to move on.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, really, I mean it's it's it's just something
Speaker 3: that makes you who you were or who you are today.
Speaker 3: It's just a path, stepping stepping platform. And we talked
Speaker 3: about you construction, doing construction in the military, but with
Speaker 3: an M four and then you know, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: so were you guys setting up like all the tents
Speaker 3: at the bases and everything like that, and putting up
Speaker 3: all of those poles with the extenders that kept the
Speaker 3: you know, were you the ones that just kept the
Speaker 3: snow from coming off the tents? Because you know, we
Speaker 3: have a war game field out here, and it was
Speaker 3: all set up by these guys and it was beautiful.
Speaker 3: But the snow hit and they just left it and
Speaker 3: they didn't maintain their fob out there, and it just
Speaker 3: the snow finally caved in. The poles bent.
Speaker 2: But so you need to help, brother.
Speaker 3: It takes a whole dedicated team of people just to
Speaker 3: knock snow off the tents, let alone.
Speaker 2: That's you know, one of the worst things I think
Speaker 2: for a soldier going out to the field is setting
Speaker 2: up those damn tents. Those things suck. Just such a
Speaker 2: pain in the ass.
Speaker 3: My friends, like, you don't want to buy these ones.
Speaker 3: They suck. Get the other model. It's like another NSN number.
Speaker 3: He's like, there's two types. He's like, we bought both types,
Speaker 3: and that one's over there like with all of its
Speaker 3: poles and like some spider formation and just like left alone.
Speaker 3: And then the other one's all set up like Glory
Speaker 3: and I was like, okay, I forgot.
Speaker 2: What style that was.
Speaker 3: But he's like, make sure you get that nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, good Lucke. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: The things we do, we go hard out here for
Speaker 3: war games. You know, we have that type of inform
Speaker 3: you know, environment, you.
Speaker 2: Know all that.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I would love to come check that out.
Speaker 3: We just had one hundred men operation yesterday at this
Speaker 3: place called Millsim City out here, and it's a four
Speaker 3: acre house to house. There's like bust broken down out
Speaker 3: in the desert. It's all you know in this environment,
Speaker 3: and you just boo boom, boom, bo boom, you know,
Speaker 3: just the whole time. And what you do is you
Speaker 3: go get these like green home depot sprinkler flags. Team
Speaker 3: A has to put them in every building. Team B
Speaker 3: has to stop them from putting them into every building.
Speaker 2: Okay yeah.
Speaker 3: And so once it's done and you can know that
Speaker 3: building is now like you know, occupied by the other guys,
Speaker 3: you can no longer go in there. It's considered off limits.
Speaker 3: It's just legit. And these guys like you, guys like me,
Speaker 3: young kids, women, children, they all play. It's a good
Speaker 3: time out in the desert of war games and high
Speaker 3: fives and getting it out of your system. Some people
Speaker 3: can never join they have asthma or you know, they
Speaker 3: were born premature and they.
Speaker 2: Have a bad eyeball. But bro Dude's Captain America. Yeah right,
Speaker 2: everyone wants to have that experience.
Speaker 3: He's like Team Wendy Helmet, you know, everything all legit.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, you won't let me serve fine Airsoft,
Speaker 3: let's go. Yeah, it's their chance to be on an
Speaker 3: ODA team out there and working with guys from odas. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 3: who are just like what do they do after they
Speaker 3: get out? You know, they're like, okay, well let's go
Speaker 3: play some Airsoft?
Speaker 2: What is this?
Speaker 3: Well this is fun And the next thing you know,
Speaker 3: they got the gloves all clipped on their belt and
Speaker 3: they're walking around. Hell yeah, I'll try to dress up
Speaker 3: like you. You know what I'm saying. Staffs aren't so Yeah.
Speaker 3: I need to check that out. Yeah yeah you should.
Speaker 3: And if you if my listener's interested in Airsoft because
Speaker 3: they want to go, you know, find something where there's
Speaker 3: some camaraderie, you can check out Utah Airsoft on Facebook.
Speaker 3: That's one of our pages and we have a lot
Speaker 3: of you know, positive information for the sport on there,
Speaker 3: and if you have any questions about it, you can
Speaker 3: find out where to play local areas on your on
Speaker 3: the internet just google Airsoft. But yeah, I mean you're
Speaker 3: in Michigan, right, Yeah, there's a huge scene there for warmes. Yes,
Speaker 3: there is, Yes, there is. Yes, dad grew up sure, yeah,
Speaker 3: my dad grew up on Lake Michigan. But in a
Speaker 3: in a in Wisconsin, Okay, in a place right there
Speaker 3: on the border there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a beautiful state here, man. We got
Speaker 2: a lot of lakes. If you can put up with
Speaker 2: the winter, it's a nice place to live. You guys
Speaker 2: got mountains, No, no, no, we got lakes. What's the
Speaker 2: snow sport out there? Everyone plays hockey. I grew up
Speaker 2: playing hockey here, played my whole life. Still play. So yeah,
Speaker 2: when the lakes freeze, everyone goes to place hockey or you know,
Speaker 2: go ice fishing. It's about the only two things you
Speaker 2: can do in the winter here. That's the sport out
Speaker 2: there here in Utah.
Speaker 3: You know you've got snowboarding, skiing, snow biking, bro snow bike.
Speaker 2: Sweet, Yeah we see those. Yeah, I've seen it. I've
Speaker 2: never done. It looks fun.
Speaker 3: Oh they're going hard now They're like there's backflips and
Speaker 3: they're just like doing all these different you know, it's
Speaker 3: just gonna happen. We'll just see in the Olympics in
Speaker 3: ten years or so. Yeah, sure, when Utah kids did. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 3: what would you like what would you like to leave
Speaker 3: my listener with? What's your what's your thoughts? And I'll
Speaker 3: give you a few minutes, you know, to sound off
Speaker 3: on something. Let me let's hear it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I mean so many things, I guess I
Speaker 2: think the number one thing would be that, you know,
Speaker 2: the Afghanis stand evacuation is two years past us, but
Speaker 2: it's not over. We still have. The last estimate I
Speaker 2: think that came out from No One Left Behind, which
Speaker 2: is an NGO working to help Afghans get out of
Speaker 2: the country, was that we still had about two hundred
Speaker 2: thousand SIV applicants, so Special Immigrant Visa applicants that these
Speaker 2: are people that supported the United States during the twenty
Speaker 2: year war and we're promised protection. Still two hundred thousand
Speaker 2: of them are left behind. There's only a small amount
Speaker 2: of visas left, so not all of them are going
Speaker 2: to get here. Not even a frack of them are
Speaker 2: going to be able to get over here. So it's
Speaker 2: not over. The evacuation is still ongoing. There are bills
Speaker 2: going through Congress. One is the Afghan Adjustment Act, which
Speaker 2: is currently stalled still I believe. But you know, if
Speaker 2: you want to support, call up here your local leadership,
Speaker 2: tell them you want to support the Afghan Adjustment Act
Speaker 2: and help give safe passage to these people that bled
Speaker 2: with America for so many years, instood shoulder to shoulder
Speaker 2: with us on our deployments. So that's what I would
Speaker 2: encourage you to do. Also, yeah, you can check if
Speaker 2: you're interested in my book, it's called Life and Death
Speaker 2: at Abvigate Again. You can find it anywhere Amazon, Barnes
Speaker 2: and Noble, my website Michael Cook dot com. And also
Speaker 2: check out our podcast, the Afghanistan Project Podcast anywhere you
Speaker 2: find your podcasts. I love that.
Speaker 3: No, that's that's wonderful and it really does. You know,
Speaker 3: you should have safe passage. There should be safe passage
Speaker 3: for them to come here. I'm a big believer in that.
Speaker 3: You know, boil boy, you know, it's America. We are
Speaker 3: melting pot, and I just think that you know, if
Speaker 3: you make.
Speaker 2: It here, then you can.
Speaker 3: You know, they they see gold, old roads man. That's
Speaker 3: what people are told, you know.
Speaker 2: It's like.
Speaker 3: And a friend of mine is like, well, we're going
Speaker 3: to give him all these free things, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: that's what they think is the American dream. They're going
Speaker 3: to get here and they're going to say, I get
Speaker 3: some bread and something to eat versus political prosecution and
Speaker 3: persecution for just being outspoken. Yeah, we're so lucky to
Speaker 3: live in this land.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One more thing I'll add is, you know Abdul,
Speaker 2: one of my friends that got here, main character in
Speaker 2: the book. He has a little daughter. And I remember
Speaker 2: when he first called me when the Taliban was on
Speaker 2: the door of Koobol. He facetimed me and he had
Speaker 2: his little daughter, baby daughter in his lap. And I
Speaker 2: was actually sitting right where I am right now in
Speaker 2: my kitchen, and I'm standing with my mother and or facetiming,
Speaker 2: and I remember my mom just like started crying because
Speaker 2: she realized that this little girl's future was gone. I mean,
Speaker 2: this little girl was not going to grow up and
Speaker 2: have an education or have a job. She was going
Speaker 2: to leave the house without a male coort or without
Speaker 2: her face covered. I mean, all those things that you
Speaker 2: already mentioned. And at that point, like I didn't realize
Speaker 2: there's anything I could do to help them. I didn't
Speaker 2: know what the special immigrant vistial process was. I didn't
Speaker 2: know about digital Dunkirk, didn't know about anything. And just
Speaker 2: to know that this little girl's life was over before
Speaker 2: it even started with so heartbreaking. So to have them
Speaker 2: here in Michigan. You know, they lift thirty minutes from me,
Speaker 2: so I go over there for dinner Afghan dinner is amazing.
Speaker 2: But to have them, yeah, the food spectacular, But to
Speaker 2: be able to watch them go play soccer and go
Speaker 2: to school, and they're all the there's how many kids
Speaker 2: are there now, six kids between the two families and
Speaker 2: six families. They're finally the older kids just picked up
Speaker 2: English like fluently, finally, so I'm able to have conversations
Speaker 2: with English with them. It's just so special to me,
Speaker 2: and it means the world. But just to know that
Speaker 2: they're here safe and they're going to have a future
Speaker 2: when that future was essentially ripped away from them, it
Speaker 2: means everything to me. So I'm just I'm so lucky
Speaker 2: because I know so many people that tried to get
Speaker 2: their interpreters out, trying to get their allies out, weren't
Speaker 2: able to do so, and those people are still stuck there.
Speaker 2: So I know that I'm the lucky one that we
Speaker 2: were able to be successful and get them over here.
Speaker 2: So just so thankful for everyone that assisted us in
Speaker 2: that evacuation.
Speaker 3: Well, kudos to you, and kudos to your co author.
Speaker 3: Drop their name one more time, Robert Conlin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, if you're looking to write a book and
Speaker 2: you need some assistance like I did, I don't come
Speaker 2: from a writing background, so knew I needed a little
Speaker 2: help getting my words down on the page, call this
Speaker 2: guy up, Robert Conlin. If you need his contact information,
Speaker 2: just hit me up. Great dude, great writer. He's also
Speaker 2: a veteran and it was a privilege to work with him.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to give him a shout out. You
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's one hundred percent, Michael. I know I got you
Speaker 3: on the show, and it's it's it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3: Thanks for coordinating yourself to be here on such a
Speaker 3: busy Sunday. And I hope my listener really gets some
Speaker 3: open minded thought process here about like you know, safe
Speaker 3: passage for these folks that worked with our military and
Speaker 3: our policies from the politicians politicians out there that are
Speaker 3: putting these people's lives in all of these jeopardies, right,
Speaker 3: they deserve a little bit of like a pat on
Speaker 3: the back from you. Don't just dismay them out into
Speaker 3: never never land, Okay. So I'm yeah, simple as that, okay.
Speaker 3: And I just want to show my listener that you
Speaker 3: can meet somebody that you've never never met before and
Speaker 3: have a decent conversation with them in this life, okay,
Speaker 3: And so you continue to be a positive steward of
Speaker 3: who you are in this world. And on behalf of
Speaker 3: Michael Cook, former Army engineer Stet Sarn. Life and Death
Speaker 3: at Abby Gate is his book. Go check it out.
Speaker 3: It'll be posted up in our description. Thanks to my
Speaker 3: producer Anton and to everybody that helps me here, Brandon Webb,
Speaker 3: I really thank you for the job every single time.
Speaker 3: So on behalf of Taylor Kansas City Chiefs forty nine ers.
Speaker 3: Have a fun Super Bowl and I hope.
Speaker 2: I picked the score. Let's just see it up all right.
Speaker 2: This is rad sayam Pace
Speaker 1: Use them listening to self Red Radio