Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Fantasy Pros NFL Draft Show. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Derek Brown, and I'm joined as always by
Speaker 1: our lead NFL Draft analysts, the man that has never
Speaker 1: seen an NFL combine prop that he didn't like, Thoor
Speaker 1: n Ie Striming. On today's show, we're gonna be previewing
Speaker 1: the NFL Combined, running through some of the most notable
Speaker 1: players at quarterback, running back, wide receiver, and yes, tight
Speaker 1: end that could swing their stock the most this week
Speaker 1: at the combine four. Dude, we got a lot of
Speaker 1: players to talk about. Man, I'm excited, baby. The combine
Speaker 1: being here means we are that much closer to the
Speaker 1: NFL Draft.
Speaker 2: Dude, Welcome to NFL Combine Week. Welcome to We're about
Speaker 2: to be in raz season. We are draft season now.
Speaker 2: So yeah, very excited and very excited to chop it
Speaker 2: up with the today.
Speaker 1: De bro oh baby, ras season to those that celebrate
Speaker 1: my condolens is a congratulations. But dude, let's will not
Speaker 1: waste any time here, baby. I mean, look, so we
Speaker 1: were gonna dive into props and stuff on this show
Speaker 1: that had been our play for the entirety of it,
Speaker 1: but as of recording. This recording this early Monday morning.
Speaker 1: We don't see any combined prop lines as those come out.
Speaker 1: If they come out, you'll see. Just follow Thor and
Speaker 1: I on Twitter. We'll be posting a lot of our
Speaker 1: stuff and maybe some content over Fantasy pros Man. But
Speaker 1: we've got a ton of players to discuss in the show, Thor,
Speaker 1: So let's hop right into a man Quarterbacks. We've gotten
Speaker 1: word that Michael Pennix and a bunch of other quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: I know you're gonna lay out the list. There guys
Speaker 1: that are gonna throw at the combine, and some are
Speaker 1: choosing not to throw at the combine. Pennis being one
Speaker 1: of the most notable and coming off of what we
Speaker 1: both agreed was a down Senior Bowl showing, really he
Speaker 1: needs to nail this and go out improve the evaluation
Speaker 1: of the arm talent. Thor, But, like, how much do
Speaker 1: you think this, like Pinnick's throwing at the combine can
Speaker 1: help his stock.
Speaker 2: I think it does a little bit, justin that's that's
Speaker 2: his best thing with his evaluation is the arm talent.
Speaker 2: So it makes all the sense in the world for
Speaker 2: Michael Pennings to go out there and throw. He's gonna
Speaker 2: be joined by JJ McCarthy, Bo Nicks, Spencer Rattler confirmed
Speaker 2: are going to throw at the combine. Caleb Williams, Jade
Speaker 2: and Daniels have confirmed they will not. Jaden Daniels also
Speaker 2: is not going to athletically tests. Still waiting for news
Speaker 2: on Drake may throwing. But as far as Penix makes
Speaker 2: all the sense in the world, he's going to throw again.
Speaker 2: That's the best thing on his evaluation, so that's important.
Speaker 2: But that's the part of it that we know he's
Speaker 2: going to do well at. I don't have any questions
Speaker 2: with that. So Leg in my mind, you're not proving
Speaker 2: anything to me by throwing, because I already know that
Speaker 2: you can throw and that you have the arm time.
Speaker 2: The biggest thing for Penix at the combine is something
Speaker 2: that we don't know the outcome of in advance. That's
Speaker 2: what are the team medical personnel going to say when
Speaker 2: they start poking around and looking into his X rays,
Speaker 2: into his whole medical evaluation. He needs a clean bill
Speaker 2: of health from those guys, from those different thirty two
Speaker 2: and people out there need to understand too. It's not
Speaker 2: one doctor that looks at the kid and then gives
Speaker 2: the entire NFL as report, each individual medical staff to
Speaker 2: look at him, and sometimes they have different opinions on
Speaker 2: what they're seeing whatever, just like an evaluation, you know,
Speaker 2: like an on field evaluation whatever. But Penix had four
Speaker 2: consecutive season ending injuries at the beginning of his career
Speaker 2: at Indiana. Two of them were knee injuries. Obviously he
Speaker 2: struggles with mobility, different stuff like that needs the clean
Speaker 2: bill health. Like I said, we'll give him, you know,
Speaker 2: the benefit of the dart of the context that the
Speaker 2: last two years of Washington he didn't miss any time
Speaker 2: with injuries. So that's that's the good news of that.
Speaker 2: Belot to see what he years back about his medicals.
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you real quick before we
Speaker 1: jump over to the guy who I think is going
Speaker 1: to blow it out at the combine and really silence
Speaker 1: a lot of the haters. Do you think we get
Speaker 1: any of the reps? Because the classic combine rep or
Speaker 1: at least a lot of the what we see at
Speaker 1: pro days and stuff is the quarterback rolling out and
Speaker 1: then throwing on the run. We know that something Michael
Speaker 1: Penix does. Do you think he does that at the
Speaker 1: combine or his pro dayth or.
Speaker 2: I don't know how much Penix is going to want
Speaker 2: to be moving around while he's throwing. Agreed, I think
Speaker 2: he wants his cleats glued into the turf and just.
Speaker 3: Doing that stuff. That's or he's going to put on
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 2: I think one of the next guys we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about is more looking to be running around.
Speaker 3: Why he's throwing during these events.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean, look, we're kind of burying the
Speaker 1: lead here. I mean, welcome to JJ McCarthy week.
Speaker 3: Baby.
Speaker 1: I mean, look him throwing at the combine. He's probably
Speaker 1: gonna what I mean, I haven't heard anything that's saying
Speaker 1: that he's not going to test or so I fully
Speaker 1: expect him to do all the testing, at least the
Speaker 1: forty at bare minimum. But this is a guy we
Speaker 1: both love. People that have tuned into the Quarterback episode,
Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to that yet, go back and
Speaker 1: check it out. A lot of JJ love on this podcast, man.
Speaker 1: But what do you see from him this week? Because
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna light it up.
Speaker 3: I do too.
Speaker 2: I think this is JJ McCarthy week. You know, this
Speaker 2: is a kid who was not, of course at the
Speaker 2: Senior ball or any of the other All Star events,
Speaker 2: So he hasn't been talked about as much as that
Speaker 2: his process is just starting now. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: people out there that will speak at debro as you know,
Speaker 2: will speak on JJ McCarthy's game on social media and
Speaker 2: some of these different things that appear to have not
Speaker 2: watched him before, appear to.
Speaker 1: Just being nine. Let's just say they don't have a
Speaker 1: clue what they're talking about. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: I mean they're they're box score scouting.
Speaker 2: And I think this is this is McCarthy's first opportunity
Speaker 2: to be there on national TV. Of course he's going
Speaker 2: to be in front of the NFL in the building
Speaker 2: and all the NFL media everything like that, but this
Speaker 2: is his first opportunity get on TV in front of
Speaker 2: some of these NFL fans that did not see his
Speaker 2: run to the College Football Playoff during the fall and
Speaker 2: into the early winner in college football because of the
Speaker 2: latter part.
Speaker 3: Of that season.
Speaker 2: Once he got into the Big Ten schedule October November,
Speaker 2: get into the Big Ten title game, then the College
Speaker 2: Football Playoff, that kid's game really started to take off.
Speaker 2: And he has tools and physical tools, and I think
Speaker 2: this is what people don't understand well about him that
Speaker 2: haven't seen him before. He is a really really good athlete, Deebro,
Speaker 2: You and I think he runs in the four or
Speaker 2: five just based on his tastes. There has been reports
Speaker 2: out of Michigan that he has run in the four
Speaker 2: fours during their offseason training and different stuff like that.
Speaker 2: The kid also has an incredible arm. One of the
Speaker 2: weirder nitpicks about him on social media is like, oh,
Speaker 2: he doesn't have a strong arm. It's like turn on
Speaker 2: the tape. I don't know what else to say. Not
Speaker 2: only does he have a super duper strong arm. It
Speaker 2: carries when he is on the move and running, which
Speaker 2: for most people it does not, including the accuracy, but
Speaker 2: he can throw those frozen ropes on the move way downfield,
Speaker 2: including to the opposite hash different stuff like that. So
Speaker 2: I think he's going to light it up during the
Speaker 2: throwing session. I think any athletic test he does, he
Speaker 2: is going to greatly surprise people. I agree with you,
Speaker 2: de Bro. He should be running the forty if nothing else.
Speaker 2: We don't know yet because we haven't heard that side
Speaker 2: of it. But we also know that JJ McCarthy is
Speaker 2: going to test incredibly well. Anyone that played with him,
Speaker 2: anyone that coached him, raves about JJ McCarthy. So this
Speaker 2: is a big week for JJ McCarthy, and I expect
Speaker 2: him to blow it up in Indy.
Speaker 1: We both fully agree that we think he's going to
Speaker 1: run the four vibes. If he goes out and he
Speaker 1: runs in the four fours for I'm gonna call it
Speaker 1: right now. Social media is just gonna melt down, like
Speaker 1: people are gonna go insane. You're gonna see all this
Speaker 1: kind of backtracking, and it's really like, well we always
Speaker 1: we've already heard rumors of that, so really nothing's changed
Speaker 1: for you and me, and for a quarterback that I
Speaker 1: think depending on where his ADP falls, I think that
Speaker 1: where he goes and Dynasty rookie drafts is gonna be
Speaker 1: very interesting. And if you're already trying to get a
Speaker 1: feel for that, then you have to be using our
Speaker 1: mock draft simulator over fantasypros dot Com slash simulator. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: you can run through Dynasty startups, rookie drafts, all these
Speaker 1: different types of formats, and JJ McCarthy is gonna go
Speaker 1: in a lot of different places. We're gonna see that
Speaker 1: ADP move, especially after the combine week.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: But I'm just gonna frame it like this, thor, there
Speaker 1: is no better setting for a player like Joe Milton
Speaker 1: than shorts and sleeveless T shirts and running and throwing
Speaker 1: far and all those types of things that can get
Speaker 1: people to ooh and ah and all types of stuff. Man. So, like,
Speaker 1: I think this is gonna be another week like where
Speaker 1: we see a lot of people hyping up Joe Milton.
Speaker 1: We know he's gonna test well, we know he can
Speaker 1: throw the ball eighty freaking yards. Who knows on his knees,
Speaker 1: on his back maybe like upside down. But this is
Speaker 1: the type of week that's built for a guy like
Speaker 1: Joe Milton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe Milton excels at everything to do with quarterback
Speaker 2: play when it is not in game conditions.
Speaker 1: Okay, so everything but quarterback play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has He has that bazooka arm crazy athlete.
Speaker 2: He has the prototypical frame six five. I believe it
Speaker 2: was two forty two that he measured in at the
Speaker 2: senior book. And the kid is athletic enough where he
Speaker 2: does standing backflips before the games, not even like you
Speaker 2: just like get you know, easy whatever. He also hit
Speaker 2: twenty one point three miles per hour on an eighty
Speaker 2: one yard run against UTSA. Was not the only run
Speaker 2: during his college career where he was tracked over twenty
Speaker 2: miles per hour, So we know he has that too,
Speaker 2: And then he might enter the NFL with the strongest
Speaker 2: arm in the NFL. And if you don't want to
Speaker 2: take my word for it, Bruce Feldman has had him
Speaker 2: on multiple of his freaklists. In the column that he
Speaker 2: just put out last week, this is Bruce Feldman sense.
Speaker 3: Bruce Felman not a guy known for hyperbole.
Speaker 2: Pure you know, ink stands Nacho stains on the shirt
Speaker 2: kind of journalists. The last sentence of his write up
Speaker 2: on Joe Milton, quote, launching a ball ninety yards might
Speaker 2: not be out of the question.
Speaker 3: End quote.
Speaker 2: I don't know about that, but he could get dang Klaus.
Speaker 2: He can definitely get it over eighty. So we'll see.
Speaker 2: Joe Melton will put it on the show. And Indy
Speaker 2: still don't trust him to do the quarterback stuff.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know either, man. And really, this is
Speaker 1: one of those types of things that, like all the
Speaker 1: NFL teams have already watched the film and all these guys.
Speaker 1: They know the intangibles. So when you hear like, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna hear it if Joe Milton goes out there
Speaker 1: and win, he goes out there and he lights it
Speaker 1: up and he's throwing bullets everywhere. Like, if that's the case,
Speaker 1: you're gonna hear. Oh, will Joe Milton's rising in the ranks.
Speaker 1: I I'll just say this, NFL teams already their grades
Speaker 1: on guys. They've watched all the film and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. They know how they feel about these
Speaker 1: quarterbacks and stuff. So you might be hearing that, but
Speaker 1: I don't think it's true. Like Joe Milton can do
Speaker 1: a lot of things to help himself in the sense
Speaker 1: that putting himself and on the radar for teams that
Speaker 1: are willing to take a shot on him in the
Speaker 1: middle rounds, but in deep bro.
Speaker 2: Just just to talk about, you know, the on field
Speaker 2: stuff with Joe Milton, I'm just going to give you
Speaker 2: three PFF stats for the people out there to give
Speaker 2: you an idea of what we're talking about. Keep in
Speaker 2: mind Joe Milton, well, first of all, at the beginning
Speaker 2: of his career, he was coached by Jim Harbaugh, one
Speaker 2: of the better coaches that we have as far as
Speaker 2: obviously JJ McCarthy in this class whatnot. And then the
Speaker 2: last couple of years, Joe Milton has been playing under
Speaker 2: Josh Hipel, who has arguably the most quarterback friendly system
Speaker 2: in entire college football. Yeah, talked about it all last
Speaker 2: spring with Henry Hooker. He cuts the field and house.
Speaker 2: You only have to read that generally you are going
Speaker 2: to your first read. So keep in mind that context
Speaker 2: when I tell you these stats. These are PFF percentiles.
Speaker 2: I give you three different ones. Joe Milton add or
Speaker 2: beyond the stick percentile last year, tenth percentile, Joe Milton
Speaker 2: third and fourth down percentile, his efficiency in those downs
Speaker 2: ninth percentile, that's when the defense knew what was coming
Speaker 2: when he was throwing. And then last one, positively graded
Speaker 2: throw percentile last year Joe Milton with his golden right
Speaker 2: arm tenth percentile.
Speaker 1: Hey, I mean, look, if you've ever turned on the
Speaker 1: film and you looked at the stats for Joe Milton,
Speaker 1: none of those stats surprise me. It's still painful to hear.
Speaker 1: But again, we think Joe Milton's gonna go out and
Speaker 1: light it up. At the combine help his stock in
Speaker 1: that way. But moving over to running backs, man, we
Speaker 1: got to talk about one of the I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: say he's the most polarizing guy, but a guy at
Speaker 1: the NFL combine that needs to go has to go
Speaker 1: out there and test really well. Bucky Irving man five ten,
Speaker 1: one ninety five. The questions, I mean, the production is there, man,
Speaker 1: you can pull up all the tackle breaking metrics. He's
Speaker 1: near the top of the board. Yards are to contact
Speaker 1: per attempt PFF, rush and grade, all these different types
Speaker 1: of things. The film is good for Bucky Irving. But
Speaker 1: what we're gonna hear in the process is he's five
Speaker 1: to ten, he's one ninety five. Can he be a
Speaker 1: feature back? Can he be a three down back? Can
Speaker 1: he hold up to the workload and the things that
Speaker 1: can help him with as far as his evaluation in
Speaker 1: his NFL draft stock, he has to go out and
Speaker 1: test well. Now I've seen stuff and correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, thor I've seen stuff out there saying Bucky
Speaker 1: Irving's been running the four fours, mid four fours. I
Speaker 1: think he has to at least run in the four fives,
Speaker 1: and I think he can do that. If he gets
Speaker 1: in the four fours, that can dramatic and test well
Speaker 1: in the short area agility. I think that can answer
Speaker 1: some of the questions because when you're not two twenty
Speaker 1: two thirty, you're not six foot tall things like that,
Speaker 1: You're not the prototypical size of a three down back
Speaker 1: in the NFL. You're a little bit more slight. You
Speaker 1: gotta test well, man, you gotta show that at that
Speaker 1: side you were explosive. Do you see Bucky Irvy doing
Speaker 1: that this week?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean in terms of the agility, I think
Speaker 2: he tests very very well. He's obviously a very slippery
Speaker 2: and elusive runner, as everyone knows. That's what leads all
Speaker 2: the broken tackles, not because he's a hammerback. The speed
Speaker 2: thing is where it gets interesting with him, and I
Speaker 2: agree with the way you set that up.
Speaker 3: Deepro of there are.
Speaker 2: You know, we'll see, we'll see if they end up
Speaker 2: being optimistic reports or not. But we have seen some
Speaker 2: of those reports of in the mid four fours. I
Speaker 2: think that's what he needs to get to to improve
Speaker 2: the stock a little bit. I think if he the
Speaker 2: holding serve kind of mark for Bucky Irving in the forty,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, is low four fives. When the the
Speaker 2: NFL scouting Service over the summer, what they send out,
Speaker 2: they had Irving between four or five flat and four
Speaker 2: five five. I think if you get over four or
Speaker 2: five five, I think that is the danger zone for
Speaker 2: Bucky Irving. If he ends up running in the high
Speaker 2: four fives, that's where people are start going to be
Speaker 2: start to say, bro, you're five to nine, you're one
Speaker 2: hundred and ninety pounds, soaking wet, and you lack the
Speaker 2: high end speed. We like the other stuff. We like
Speaker 2: the receiving utility. I think it was eighty five catches
Speaker 2: over the last two years. He can obviously break tackles,
Speaker 2: everything like that, but yeah, he needs to show at
Speaker 2: this speed. He is going to show the agility, but
Speaker 2: we need to see a little bit of speed out
Speaker 2: of him.
Speaker 1: If he runs now that this is the danger zone.
Speaker 1: This is the absolute just panic button. And you'll hear
Speaker 1: the comparisons if he does not test well if he
Speaker 1: runs in the four sixes. I'm just giving the range
Speaker 1: of outcomes. Again we talked about. I think Bucky Irving
Speaker 1: runs in the four fives. I hope for his stake
Speaker 1: he gets in the four fours, if he runs in
Speaker 1: the four sixes, I'm just throwing it out there right now,
Speaker 1: for we're gonna hear the Kien Williams type of talk
Speaker 1: considering his size, considering what he showed in college and
Speaker 1: the skill set and stuff. Tell me we're not going
Speaker 1: to hear those types of narratives if he is. If
Speaker 1: he does run a four to six.
Speaker 2: Yes, although I will say probably a little bit better
Speaker 2: of her receiver, but not nearly as good as a
Speaker 2: pass blocker. Kyra and Williams are being at his size,
Speaker 2: we'll go in there and scrap he had a good
Speaker 2: base whatever. Bucky Irving is a complete turnstyle, but you're
Speaker 2: sending him out as a receiver every time I'm passing
Speaker 2: down to.
Speaker 1: Oh, agreed, man and a guy switching this over from
Speaker 1: a guy that we have questions about, like not questions about.
Speaker 1: We think he's gonna test okay, but he has to
Speaker 1: prove those parts of evaluation. This guy is a black
Speaker 1: box prospect at this point. Thor. We didn't get a
Speaker 1: chance to see him at senior ball. He was rehabbing
Speaker 1: from stuff. Apparently he's gonna blow it out from everything
Speaker 1: we've heard on the back end this week, and I'm
Speaker 1: ready for the coming out party of Jalen Wright. Man.
Speaker 1: How fast do you think he runs this week? And
Speaker 1: how much can he help his stock? Because I've already
Speaker 1: got a third round grade on him. I think that's
Speaker 1: where he goes.
Speaker 2: So we've heard from you know, different things. He was
Speaker 2: the number twenty four Felman freaklisser twenty twenty two. Uh shure,
Speaker 2: he's about let's see. The last measurements we had on
Speaker 2: him was a five to eleven to fifteen ish like
Speaker 2: somewhere in there to ten. So I'm very curious to
Speaker 2: see where he ends up playing in as well. But
Speaker 2: on the field twenty three point six miles per hour
Speaker 2: in practice, he has regularly gone over twenty miles per
Speaker 2: hour on the field on different runs. There's reports and
Speaker 2: this is a Feldman report of a forty four inch
Speaker 2: vertical in the past a ten eight jump lord and
Speaker 2: Feldman reported in high school he ran a handtime four
Speaker 2: to eight. Here's the thing that I can report. The
Speaker 2: thing that I have been hearing is out of the
Speaker 2: Florida facility that Jalen Wright has been training at. His
Speaker 2: forty yard dashtimes in pre combined training have been eerily
Speaker 2: similar to what Jamier Gibbs ran the year before at
Speaker 2: the exact same facility, and that stuff that is happening
Speaker 2: in the weeks leading up to the NFL comeint. And
Speaker 2: also that he's regularly been jumping over the forty inches,
Speaker 2: which is no surprise because Feldman had him at forty
Speaker 2: four a year or two ago, and what that might
Speaker 2: have been the highest he has ever jumped. So we'll
Speaker 2: end up seeing, you know, with the small sample variants
Speaker 2: of you just get a couple of jumps or whatever.
Speaker 2: But he is definitely jumping over forty inches and I
Speaker 2: think he is gonna be running in the four threes.
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm going out in any sort of
Speaker 2: a limb with that. Jalen Wright is going to be
Speaker 2: the star at the running back position.
Speaker 1: I adamantly agree. And if you just turn on the
Speaker 1: film for Jalen Wright, like you see the burst, you
Speaker 1: see the juice, and so expecting him to test well
Speaker 1: should not surprise anybody. Man. And just to compare this, yes,
Speaker 1: Jamiir Gibbs went out and ran a four to three six.
Speaker 1: His ten yard split was in the eighty third percentile.
Speaker 1: At one point five to two. I think Jalen Wright
Speaker 1: can hit both of those numbers. And that might sound hyperbolic.
Speaker 1: If you think it's hyperbolic, turn on his tape. Tell
Speaker 1: me that man does not look like he's shot out
Speaker 1: of a freaking cannon every time he gets the dang ball.
Speaker 1: So I'm excited man again, Like we're talking about JJ
Speaker 1: McCarthy is really gonna make himself some keish some money
Speaker 1: this week, I think Jalen Wright's gonna do the same
Speaker 1: freaking thing man. And for another guy that I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's gonna be cashing checks, but he can
Speaker 1: at least prove the parts of his evaluation that we
Speaker 1: need to see oldric estimate Man five eleven two twenty
Speaker 1: seven powerback. If you look up all the different tackle
Speaker 1: breaking stuff eighth in yards of the contact per attempt,
Speaker 1: fifteenth and elucirating, how do you see him testing? And
Speaker 1: I'm gonna also add this on top of your thor
Speaker 1: tell me how much does he need to show in
Speaker 1: any of the receiving drills if he does them, Because
Speaker 1: this is still a guy that, look, we know what
Speaker 1: he can do on early downs, but as a guy
Speaker 1: that has never had more than seventeen targets in any
Speaker 1: season in college one point one yards per route run.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things not only from his testing,
Speaker 1: but he needs to do the receiving drills and show
Speaker 1: well in those to sit here and help his draft stock.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's well said.
Speaker 2: You know, some of these these running backs, they happen
Speaker 2: to get into systems where they feature them as wider
Speaker 2: or as receivers. Right, they let him do cool stuff
Speaker 2: like that, and then some guys, excuse me, some guys
Speaker 2: they they go into systems where they're not used as
Speaker 2: a receiver.
Speaker 3: Whatever. We talked about this with Marshawn Lloyd.
Speaker 2: Is Ja Davis talk to us about this about his
Speaker 2: experience south to go to State. Kamani Vidala talked about
Speaker 2: this at Troy. Like these systems that we were in,
Speaker 2: they just didn't feature us as much as a receiver.
Speaker 2: It's more or less the same thing for Odrick Estime.
Speaker 2: You're right about his receiving totals. Although I will say
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that adriich Aster may never drop the
Speaker 2: ball in college, so that the targets that he did get,
Speaker 2: he brought all them in. He does have the soft hands.
Speaker 2: We haven't seen him doing the cool stuff with the
Speaker 2: route running, you know, it's been a lot of the
Speaker 2: dumpoffs whatnot, But he is.
Speaker 3: Reliable with that.
Speaker 2: I think showing a little bit of chops as far
Speaker 2: as running some sort of routes, showing some fluidness with
Speaker 2: that would help. We already know that he has the
Speaker 2: good hands. As far as the on field drills go,
Speaker 2: the testing is super important for estimate to it. As
Speaker 2: you were talking about, he's that jacked up power back
Speaker 2: and for his size.
Speaker 3: I like his feet enough.
Speaker 2: Certainly not joystick agility, but he has light feet for
Speaker 2: his size. You mentioned the tackle breaking, he drops the shoulders.
Speaker 2: He has really good balance too. You'll see him take
Speaker 2: these shots and then he's immediately sort of centers himself.
Speaker 2: It might take him just like one movement to get
Speaker 2: you know, back to center, and then he squares himself
Speaker 2: back up and he's chugging him field again. Like I said,
Speaker 2: better receiver than I think he gets credit for. But
Speaker 2: we'll have to see as far as the route running
Speaker 2: aspect of that. But is he a good enough, good
Speaker 2: enough athlete to be an NFL starter? I mean that's
Speaker 2: the thing that the testing is going to help us
Speaker 2: to determine average acceleration, average speed. I probably would have
Speaker 2: said below average speed outside of a couple occurrences this
Speaker 2: year where he put that into doubt. The big one
Speaker 2: was in September he had an eighty yard touchdown run
Speaker 2: against NC State where he got up to twenty point
Speaker 2: nine miles per hour on that run. Estimate actually ran
Speaker 2: away from two defensive backs. That's something that we had
Speaker 2: not seen on his film before that. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: he you know, prior to that and even since then,
Speaker 2: very few forty plus yard runs against FBS competition. He
Speaker 2: did have a couple though in the latter part of
Speaker 2: the season, and like I said, that eighty yard one
Speaker 2: where I mean twenty one miles per hour.
Speaker 3: Is no joke.
Speaker 2: If he can get, all Estimate needs to do is
Speaker 2: what would you say, de bro high four fives.
Speaker 1: Four fives anywhere in the four five Yeah, meant for
Speaker 1: the guys check the box. Yeah, And that's really all
Speaker 1: that he needs to do. I saw Lance zier Line,
Speaker 1: who just dropped his his different reports in advance of
Speaker 1: the combine comp estimate to Jamal Williams that one's perfect lance.
Speaker 3: If you're listening I'm going to steal that comp that's
Speaker 3: a really.
Speaker 1: Good and And to your point, Thor, I had to
Speaker 1: go look this up, man, I mean estimate. I haven't
Speaker 1: dove all the way deep into his film yet and stuff,
Speaker 1: but good lord, twenty six collegiate targets, twenty six collegiate
Speaker 1: receptions hit the nail on the head man. And to
Speaker 1: your point, I think especially with the short area, not
Speaker 1: only the long speed, but like it shows up in
Speaker 1: his numbers too, Man, as a guy that until last
Speaker 1: season we never saw him crest to thirty six percent
Speaker 1: breakaway run rate. I mean he got in the he
Speaker 1: got was forty four point one percent in his final
Speaker 1: year at Notre Dame. So again, like you want to
Speaker 1: see that kind of stuff, guy's trending up, not trending down,
Speaker 1: but the numbers. It shows up in the numbers, the
Speaker 1: long speed or maybe some of the questions about that.
Speaker 1: But another guy that's gonna have to answer questions here, man,
Speaker 1: Blake Koram. We know the pedigree, we know coming from Michigan,
Speaker 1: a guy that was really on the rise, and then
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, his counting sets are fine. You can
Speaker 1: talk about the touchdowns and going to Michigan and all
Speaker 1: those different types of things that you want to but
Speaker 1: we cannot get away from Blake Korum what we also
Speaker 1: saw on the efficiency side, or and I think he
Speaker 1: needs to go out and prove that he's all the
Speaker 1: way back from the knee injury, because the numbers are
Speaker 1: very concerning. If you look at just his yards of
Speaker 1: the contact per attempt, this is a guy that went
Speaker 1: from three point three to five, which is a passable
Speaker 1: number in twenty twenty three to two point four to
Speaker 1: two and or excuse me, twenty twenty two, and in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three he went to two point four to two.
Speaker 1: His breakaway run rate fell off the table. Man, a
Speaker 1: guy who in his first two years was consistently in
Speaker 1: the forty percent range dropped all the way to thirty
Speaker 1: one point eight percent. And considering his standing at five
Speaker 1: eight two thirteen, I really think Blake Koram has to
Speaker 1: go out and test, well, what would that look like?
Speaker 1: And do you see Korum doing that this week?
Speaker 2: For Yeah, he has a guy where there's a couple
Speaker 2: of different traits about him that you love. I happened
Speaker 2: to running backs with that Bill. I just loved the
Speaker 2: bowling ball types.
Speaker 1: Short, squady and powerful baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really like that. And then Korum.
Speaker 2: You know, in that package what he gives you, it's
Speaker 2: the really good agility, you know, including out in the
Speaker 2: second level, he'll start to slalom, go across the field,
Speaker 2: different stuff like that cut back.
Speaker 3: He just makes people miss so well.
Speaker 2: And like I said, in conjunction with that vision, it's
Speaker 2: it's really cool. The two questions that he needs to
Speaker 2: answer in Indianapolis the speed question, what is he going
Speaker 2: to run? In the forty there was very limited explosive runs,
Speaker 2: and you know, you were sort of setting that up.
Speaker 2: And then the durability thing, you know, and you were
Speaker 2: mentioning that as well. Well, we'll see what the doctors
Speaker 2: end up saying. But he had that ACL injury in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. I think that that helps to explain
Speaker 2: some of the slow start stuff in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: Didn't totally look like himself till about the middle of
Speaker 2: the season on then you started to see vintage Blake Koram.
Speaker 2: That was, you know, as we got into the Big
Speaker 2: Ten schedule and then into that college football playoff run. Obviously,
Speaker 2: he capped the season in the fifteenth game against Washington
Speaker 2: by absolutely dominating them in the National title. We have
Speaker 2: to give the context to Washington's run defense was a
Speaker 2: train wreck all season. But Blake Korum, he has seven
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty one touches in college. He's gotten a
Speaker 2: lot of usage. You know, we hear this talking point
Speaker 2: a lot when people are talking about JJ McCarthy. Oh,
Speaker 2: but they had the dominant run game. They have Blake
Speaker 2: Corum and blah blah blah. Corm obviously ran behind a
Speaker 2: really good offensive lining college or everything set up well
Speaker 2: for him.
Speaker 3: He also wasn't used a ton as a receiver.
Speaker 2: Of this another guy where the system wasn't using him
Speaker 2: that much as far as that goes. So the other thing,
Speaker 2: the third one that I would mention with him is
Speaker 2: in the on field drills seeing him run around catching
Speaker 2: those passes. What can you show with that. He's another
Speaker 2: guy who although he was used sort of sparingly down
Speaker 2: the stretch this past season during that title run, I
Speaker 2: liked what I saw of him in some limited sample
Speaker 2: size receiving looks certainly as far as the outlet guy,
Speaker 2: the soft hands, and then you get the thing where
Speaker 2: he becomes dangerous in the open field. Because of the
Speaker 2: vision thing, because of the agility thing, and he has
Speaker 2: enough power to break those arm tackles. Just need to
Speaker 2: prove the speed, the durability, stuff like that. As far
Speaker 2: as the speed goes. Korm did get up to twenty
Speaker 2: one point one miles per hour on a run last year,
Speaker 2: got over twenty miles per hour on a couple others.
Speaker 2: That's kind of where we're sitting in. The speed just
Speaker 2: slightly higher than estimate in terms of what we've seen
Speaker 2: with the on field tracking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just on his numbers one more time and
Speaker 1: going back to singularly, just looking at certain games just
Speaker 1: to talk about how concerning last year was from an
Speaker 1: efficiency standpoint, and I think kind of like puts a
Speaker 1: bow on this as far as he needs to prove
Speaker 1: that he's all the way back. It was bad, dude,
Speaker 1: Like he only had two games where he crossed three
Speaker 1: point two singular games where he crossed three point zero
Speaker 1: yards oft to contact per attempt. He had nine games
Speaker 1: last year or nine where he broke two or fewer
Speaker 1: tackles he legit had looking here on his ledger, he
Speaker 1: had two games where he broke no tackles at all
Speaker 1: and three other games where he only forced one misstackle.
Speaker 1: So really he's got to come out and prove that
Speaker 1: he is all the way back man, and for that
Speaker 1: type of archetype for running back, especially again we're talking
Speaker 1: about the size. He needs to go out and test
Speaker 1: well in every facet, improve the health. But with the times, man.
Speaker 1: So if you want to build teams that have guys
Speaker 1: like Blake Korm, they're short, squatty pots, be powerful, can
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Speaker 1: just got real reality reality sports online dot com Thor
Speaker 1: talking about some real things that need to happen at
Speaker 1: the Combine. Baby, we have got to see a really
Speaker 1: fantastic showing for Keon Coleman. We have talked about him
Speaker 1: as far as on the Polarizing Players episode. We're gonna
Speaker 1: discuss him in future on our Wide Receiver episodes. But
Speaker 1: for a guy that if you just look at his profile,
Speaker 1: you look at the counting SATs, whatever you want to
Speaker 1: look at for Kean Coleman, it's all pretty divisive.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 1: It's a wide range of things. You can either fall
Speaker 1: in love with him if you look at certain aspects,
Speaker 1: or it could be kind of like me and fade him.
Speaker 1: What do we need to see out of Keon Coleman
Speaker 1: this week for him to really help himself, because I
Speaker 1: think his draft stock's gonna float between the first round
Speaker 1: and the second round. What does he need to do
Speaker 1: to try to insulate himself to stay in that first round? Conversation?
Speaker 2: He's a test well enough in the speed in the
Speaker 2: agility drills.
Speaker 3: What does that look like would be would be the
Speaker 3: sharp version of that?
Speaker 1: What does his forty need to be this week?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 1: Because you and I I have got to going back
Speaker 1: and forth on this. I think there's a possibility he
Speaker 1: could run in the four sixes. I think he's probably
Speaker 1: more likely a four or five guy, And and his
Speaker 1: vert is really freaking good considered. I mean it shows
Speaker 1: up on his tape. Man, But what do you see
Speaker 1: him testing as Do you think he runs a four
Speaker 1: or five or six? Do you think his vert's good
Speaker 1: or what?
Speaker 3: The vert's going to be incredible?
Speaker 2: That that's the one thing where we know that the speed,
Speaker 2: you know, that's more you're curious about that because the
Speaker 2: boss scales downfield are really good. He can jump out
Speaker 2: of the gym and different stuff like that. But it's
Speaker 2: can he get downtown on NFL cornerbacks that that's one
Speaker 2: thing he has to prove. I do think he's going
Speaker 2: to run right around four or five flat, you know.
Speaker 2: I think I think he's a bit faster than you.
Speaker 2: And it wouldn't stun me if it was the high
Speaker 2: high four fours or like to me, it's going to
Speaker 2: be somewhere. If I had to guess, I would guess
Speaker 2: somewhere between four four eight and four five two. That
Speaker 2: would be the range that I'm in. Like I said,
Speaker 2: the jumping speaks for itself. I expect that the acceleration
Speaker 2: to be decent, you know, as far as the ten
Speaker 2: yard split stuff like that. But I need him to
Speaker 2: prove that though, because there is questions about that. And
Speaker 2: then the big one too, is he going to do
Speaker 2: the agility drills or is he gonna duck him? If
Speaker 2: he does the agility drills, how will those be. We've
Speaker 2: seen receivers like this that have the similar skill set
Speaker 2: where there's big questions about the agility profile flat skip them.
Speaker 2: We've seen other ones where they do them and then
Speaker 2: they fall in their face. DK Metcalf, I'm looking at you,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean, Coleman has the size, the prototypical size,
Speaker 2: and the really really good hands, and he's showing that
Speaker 2: he can do stuff in contested situations as well. Like
Speaker 2: I said, the jump out guy downfield former basketball players
Speaker 2: speaking of the jumping not only that was really good.
Speaker 2: In high school, he played for Tom Izzo at Michigan State,
Speaker 2: and Tom Iso obviously is one of the great college
Speaker 2: basketball collegere of all time. And then you know, of course,
Speaker 2: like he was going two ways in Michigan State just
Speaker 2: for a little bet. Then he you know, decided to
Speaker 2: focus on football. Of course, Then he transfers to Florida
Speaker 2: State last spring, and then this year we had that
Speaker 2: weird season where more than thirty balls that were throwing
Speaker 2: at him were charted as not catchaball. He typically caught
Speaker 2: the stuff that was in his sort of vicinity whatever.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think what's gonna happen with the agilities
Speaker 2: and then exactly where it is that is he closer
Speaker 2: to the speed that I think he is or is
Speaker 2: he the closer at speed that you think he is?
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I could see him possibly getting in the
Speaker 1: in the four fives. If it is, I think he
Speaker 1: barely ekes by and I think he gets into like
Speaker 1: the high four fives. I think he's more likely a
Speaker 1: four to six guy. But here's the thing, if there's
Speaker 1: any questions about that, like if he's been testing and
Speaker 1: his agents all, then you know what he's running. So
Speaker 1: for me, like, if i'm his agent, I'm saying, okay,
Speaker 1: if he's running in the four six, he's not running
Speaker 1: the forty. If he can go out there and get
Speaker 1: in the four fives. And this is only like, because
Speaker 1: we're only counting your best attempt. So if he goes
Speaker 1: out there and he runs a four to six, four
Speaker 1: to six one, a four or five eight, then fine,
Speaker 1: then he let him run. Let him run the forty
Speaker 1: if he gets into the four fives. If I'm Kean Coleman,
Speaker 1: I'm running the forty, I'm doing the vert and I'm
Speaker 1: out like, I'm not doing the short area. I'm not
Speaker 1: doing any of that other crap. I want people to
Speaker 1: sit here and say, I'm gonna go back to my tape.
Speaker 1: I'll show you on my tape that I'm that I'm
Speaker 1: agile enough, especially if he's not gonna test well in
Speaker 1: those parts. But moving over to a guy that we
Speaker 1: think kind of probably tests out the freaking Jim Thor
Speaker 1: and this is a guy that's the size of a
Speaker 1: damn Jim. Johnny Wilson, Baby, I mean, look, we we
Speaker 1: gushed about him going into Senior Bowl. He whether and
Speaker 1: we never got reports on that. We're hoping that he
Speaker 1: does test because if he did leave Senior Bowl and
Speaker 1: mobile with any type of injury, maybe he doesn't test,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna operate under the assumption that he does.
Speaker 1: This week. I've seen reports that he's running the four
Speaker 1: fives before Thor. If he does that at his size,
Speaker 1: oh baby, I'm here for the Johnny Wilson hype machine
Speaker 1: because if you look at his analytic profile, man, it's
Speaker 1: pretty We've seen what he could do on the field, man,
Speaker 1: I want him to go out there and show people.
Speaker 1: Do you think he does that? And where do you
Speaker 1: think his athletic testing comes down? I mean, forty vert
Speaker 1: all those types of things.
Speaker 3: I think he needs to run in the four fives.
Speaker 2: And the reason I think that is because Johnny Wilson
Speaker 2: is adamant that he is going to play boundary receiver
Speaker 2: in the NFL that he wants that opportunity. He did
Speaker 2: not want to test or I'm sorry. He did not
Speaker 2: want to practice as the big slot tight end fella
Speaker 2: when we were down at the Senior ball. He wants
Speaker 2: to be the the outside guy. And after the last
Speaker 2: two days or the first i'm sorry, after the first
Speaker 2: two days of practice down in Mobile, he felt he
Speaker 2: had done enough and he pulled out of the last
Speaker 2: day down there. He obviously that's what he wants to be.
Speaker 2: Johnny Wilson's agility is not going to be very good.
Speaker 2: In fact, I would expect that he wouldn't do it
Speaker 2: the agility drills that following Butler's footsteps and and and
Speaker 2: skip those whatever because.
Speaker 1: Of Kean Coleman. Coleman's footsteps.
Speaker 3: For the ke On Coleman's gonna be faster than that.
Speaker 2: You know, with all those things in mind, he needs
Speaker 2: to test decently fast at mid mid four or fives
Speaker 2: I think is right around where he needs to be.
Speaker 2: Just because of that, he needs to show that he
Speaker 2: has that special sauce of the ridiculous size to catch
Speaker 2: radius and then that north south stuff. We know that
Speaker 2: the jumping is there and the explosion, so the split
Speaker 2: should be pretty good.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: He had a he has a reported vertical jump with
Speaker 2: thirty five and a half inches, a broad jump of
Speaker 2: ten to five and then his highest game speed that
Speaker 2: we have on the tracking twenty one point two miles
Speaker 2: per hour. So that's what we need to see. The agility.
Speaker 2: I would if I was his agent, I would tell
Speaker 2: him not to do it. But that's that would just
Speaker 2: be me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I I adamantly agree. Man. It's it's these
Speaker 1: types of forums. It's how can you help yourself and
Speaker 1: the things that are going to hurt you? Then what
Speaker 1: that's the point? Why are we doing that? And that's
Speaker 1: what always kind of floors me. It's like we see, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at you Kishan Boute, which like you know
Speaker 1: you're not gonna test well, you know you've been out
Speaker 1: there and like the hand times or whatever, like whatever
Speaker 1: you're getting tracked as, then why are you gonna show
Speaker 1: NFL teams that you are slow? Like just say like, oh,
Speaker 1: well I'm not gonna test, or I'll do it to
Speaker 1: my pro day or ooh ooh problematic, Hammi just just
Speaker 1: flared up. Can't run today? Oops? Sorry, Like why would
Speaker 1: you even worry about that? Man? But from guys that
Speaker 1: we're worried about the testing, a guy that we think
Speaker 1: tests well and can prove that last year's stats were
Speaker 1: not a fluke baby five eight one ninety four. Malik Washington.
Speaker 1: If you just look at the counting stats last year,
Speaker 1: thor they're amazing. Man went from Northwestern, transferred to Virginia,
Speaker 1: finished the season with one hundred and eleven grabs, second
Speaker 1: in PFF re seeming grade and eleventh in yards per
Speaker 1: route run. Like I mean, his ledgen it just littered
Speaker 1: with awesome numbers. Man, But what do you see autam
Speaker 1: Maleak Washington this week? And where if he goes out
Speaker 1: and they test swell, where could you see him going
Speaker 1: in the NFL draft? I could see him getting up
Speaker 1: to the third round. Am I wrong?
Speaker 3: I think there's a big band of outcomes here.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean that's by definition, it makes him
Speaker 2: his week coming up very important for him. He's a
Speaker 2: guy who earlier in his college career, I mean we
Speaker 2: didn't talk about him and all he was at Northwestern,
Speaker 2: he was a little bit of an afterthought. And then
Speaker 2: he started to jump onto the scene a little bit.
Speaker 2: And then when he gets to Virginia, especially this last season,
Speaker 2: you know, goes absolutely nuclear. That was what you know,
Speaker 2: fourteen hundred plus yards and the nine touchdowns. Hundred was
Speaker 2: at eleven receptions last year, but a lot of them
Speaker 2: came near the line of scrimmage. Now, this is not
Speaker 2: necessarily his fault, you know. It's not a Malachi Corley
Speaker 2: thing where he had years and years and years to
Speaker 2: do it, but he still couldn't develop the rout tree whatever.
Speaker 2: With Virginia this past season and their offense, it was
Speaker 2: they had to manufacture short touches to Malik Washington to
Speaker 2: move the ball whatsoever. They had zero running backs their
Speaker 2: quarterback situation, they had an uninspiring FCS veteran that got
Speaker 2: injured immediately as Tony musket Kid. Then they had to
Speaker 2: put in a true freshman Calandria, who I mean at
Speaker 2: this point was not ready to play, so they had
Speaker 2: to do this short stuff. He couldn't sit back there
Speaker 2: in the pocket, read the whole field whatever. Malik Washington
Speaker 2: was their only source of offense, So this was more
Speaker 2: utilitarian as far as it goes with the Virginia offense
Speaker 2: as a whole, than he can't do the other stuff.
Speaker 2: So the other stuff is what you're sort of thinking
Speaker 2: about for his NFL projection. We know he can catch
Speaker 2: the ball short, create a little separation to open up
Speaker 2: that window right after the snap whatever, and then we
Speaker 2: know that he can run with the ball afterwards because
Speaker 2: he's I mean, you can think about him like sort
Speaker 2: of like a quarterly in this regard that he sort
Speaker 2: of has the build of a running back and he runs.
Speaker 3: With that sort of power. I like his agility.
Speaker 2: The big question with him, it's the speed thing, and
Speaker 2: that not only goes with the athletic profile, it goes
Speaker 2: with the idea of could this guy win intermediate and
Speaker 2: down the field. I mean, it's a big question with him.
Speaker 2: If he comes in at his size and runs in
Speaker 2: the high four fives or even the low fourth sixes,
Speaker 2: I think that's where an enormous shadow of doubt has
Speaker 2: been put over his evaluation. And then you can start
Speaker 2: to do the thing of well, I know he had
Speaker 2: a bunch of catches last year, but he was the
Speaker 2: only guy they were throwing to him every single time,
Speaker 2: and it was all these manufacturer touches. However, if he tests,
Speaker 2: if he runs faster than that, let's say he's high
Speaker 2: four fours or low four fives, you already know he
Speaker 2: has the agility like I said, I think he's going
Speaker 2: to test well as far as that goes. Now you
Speaker 2: can start to go the other way and that area
Speaker 2: of doubt that is on his evaluation, you can give
Speaker 2: him the benefit of the doubt on that because of
Speaker 2: the situation he's in, and also say the athletic testing
Speaker 2: profile suggests he could be able to win down the
Speaker 2: field too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just a draw. This is not a direct comparison,
Speaker 1: but we're talking about a guy around a similar size,
Speaker 1: and I don't think that Molie gets this type of
Speaker 1: raft capital. But just to put a button on this,
Speaker 1: Zay Flowers last year five nine went out and ran
Speaker 1: a four to four Malik. I'm not saying he needs
Speaker 1: to get in the four fours, but he needs to
Speaker 1: run like in the mid to low four fives and
Speaker 1: then test. If he doesn't get into four fours. If
Speaker 1: he runs in the four fives, he needs to blow
Speaker 1: out the short area agility or just not do it,
Speaker 1: because that that that's if you're not going to blow
Speaker 1: it out, I would ready you just not test and
Speaker 1: not continue to kind of like hurt your draft stock
Speaker 1: in that way. But you know, I think he does
Speaker 1: go out and he tests well for Or, but we'll
Speaker 1: see man moving over to tight ends and these next
Speaker 1: three guys we're gonna bring up. I mean, really we
Speaker 1: should just talk about this is This is the battle Royale,
Speaker 1: the fight to the death for the tight end four,
Speaker 1: maybe the tight end three in this class, and these
Speaker 1: three guys are gonna be duking it out. Man. Let's
Speaker 1: kick this off with Eric Hall, a guy that look
Speaker 1: going from Michigan to Iowa, six foot five, two fifty.
Speaker 1: He has the size, he has the numbers on the
Speaker 1: on the page sixteenth and PFF receiving grade thirty yards
Speaker 1: per route run. How do you think he tests? Because
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw this at you, Thor I went, I
Speaker 1: went way down the rabbit hole, dude. I found his
Speaker 1: numbers from one of the Nike camps in twenty eighteen. Now,
Speaker 1: he did measure in at six four two fourteen, So
Speaker 1: a lot of adjusting as far as like, he's gained
Speaker 1: a lot of weight his size, and yes he's been
Speaker 1: in a collegiate strength and conditioning program. But he ran
Speaker 1: a four nine five forty and he had a four
Speaker 1: point two twenty yard shuttle and a thirty four and
Speaker 1: a half vertical jump. Do you see eric Hal blowing
Speaker 1: those numbers out or is he gonna have a problem testing?
Speaker 1: Where do you see his week coming down at this week?
Speaker 3: Yeah, eric Al, we have to see if he can
Speaker 3: even test.
Speaker 2: The kid tore his ACL in October, so I would
Speaker 2: sort of doubt it for this event. What we'll have
Speaker 2: to see at the pro day, But it might be
Speaker 2: a wash as far as the test goo, which I
Speaker 2: it's good news for teams that potentially see him like
Speaker 2: I do as far as a sleeper that he's not
Speaker 2: going to get the opportunity to answer some of those
Speaker 2: questions if in fact it turns out that he cannot
Speaker 2: because of it.
Speaker 3: But you have two things going on here.
Speaker 2: It's number one, the whole medical rap sheet. He also
Speaker 2: had a season ending back injury in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: That was when he was at Michigan. He joined Kate
Speaker 2: McNamara transferring over to Iowa last season look good. At
Speaker 2: the beginning of the season, before he had that ACL
Speaker 2: tear in October, I thought he was going to go
Speaker 2: back to Iowa and at the very last minute he
Speaker 2: decided to jump into the draft.
Speaker 3: On tape.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons I see him as a sleeper
Speaker 2: in this tight end class is because he definitely has
Speaker 2: the size and he definitely can play both in line.
Speaker 2: You can bring him out to the slot. He has
Speaker 2: the receiving skill, the receiving chops he also on tape.
Speaker 2: In my view of it, shows the speed and shows
Speaker 2: the athleticism. I think there's an efficiency in his route running,
Speaker 2: doesn't waste movement efficiency into and out of those outbreaks.
Speaker 2: Certainly has the speed to threat in the scene. We've
Speaker 2: seen this over the last couple of years when he
Speaker 2: has been able to be on the field not a
Speaker 2: maler of a blocker, but knows what he's doing, gets
Speaker 2: after it, uses his length and then tries to play
Speaker 2: the angles whatever. As far as the receiving goes, like
Speaker 2: I said, you see the skill with him. That The
Speaker 2: only thing with the on field thing as far as
Speaker 2: the tape goes, is just want to see a bit
Speaker 2: more consistency there where. Sometimes he'll make the really really
Speaker 2: awesome catches, like you saw him dig some balls out
Speaker 2: at the ground right before they were about to hit there.
Speaker 2: You'll see him spear the ball outside of his frame
Speaker 2: to go up and get it. Different stuff like that.
Speaker 2: You'll also see the occasional bad concentration drop going the
Speaker 2: other way, So just need to clean some of that
Speaker 2: stuff up. I think staying on the field consistency, consistently
Speaker 2: will help him out with that. Obviously was injured the
Speaker 2: last couple of years, but I think he's a better athlete.
Speaker 3: Than those high school numbers suggests.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to throw that out there, and yes,
Speaker 1: do do we all agree that being in a collegiate
Speaker 1: strength program and conditioning and these kids growing and stuff
Speaker 1: like that over the next like two to three years,
Speaker 1: nine times out of ten, do they come out stronger, faster. Yes,
Speaker 1: But we have to mention it here, man, since we're
Speaker 1: talking about the testing and whether he's able to or not,
Speaker 1: or if some of them get shoved to his pro day,
Speaker 1: maybe he doesn't test. If that's the case, maybe he
Speaker 1: could be of value for some team that looks at
Speaker 1: the film and says, you know what, we believe this guy,
Speaker 1: whether it's Miles prow or whether whatever tracking data you
Speaker 1: want to pull up or just yeerly for the numbers,
Speaker 1: we believe this guy can play and we can get
Speaker 1: him at a value because if he doesn't test, over
Speaker 1: to a guy that again has the prototypical size. Jared
Speaker 1: Wiley six foot six, two fifty three. This guy has
Speaker 1: put up some pretty good numbers. Or I mean, if
Speaker 1: you look at yards poer out run versus man coverage,
Speaker 1: you look at PFF receiving grades like last year nineteenth
Speaker 1: and yards poer out run, how do you see Wiley
Speaker 1: testing Because there's some numbers out there, like he's run
Speaker 1: a four to eight forty, which really puts him on
Speaker 1: the fringe. Man, do you think he's gonna be faster
Speaker 1: than that? And how do you see his testing week
Speaker 1: penning out.
Speaker 3: He needs to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean some of those numbers painting him from
Speaker 2: the more optimistic sided things. The other way is this
Speaker 2: kid's a mediocre blocker. That's being generous. And then last
Speaker 2: year's second lowest A DOT of the entire tight end
Speaker 2: group had only two contested catches despite that enormous size,
Speaker 2: the enormous frame, and he broke only three tackles.
Speaker 3: If you're getting the low aid DOT and you have
Speaker 3: that kind.
Speaker 2: Of size, you'd expect that that would facilitate some broken
Speaker 2: tackle opportunities.
Speaker 3: But he didn't get that either. Jared Wiley.
Speaker 2: The NFS in the offseason, what they sent out to
Speaker 2: the NFL from his testing was four eight flat to
Speaker 2: four eight five. He really needs to run minimum four
Speaker 2: to sevens or he is in trouble because the rest
Speaker 2: of this profile does not play. You and I were
Speaker 2: not super duper impressed with him down in mobile. He
Speaker 2: does have this soft hand short but the problem is
Speaker 2: he doesn't separate at all, So that's why it has
Speaker 2: to be the short area stuff for him. But then
Speaker 2: when he gets the ball, he doesn't break any tackles.
Speaker 2: So it's like, if he's not going to give you
Speaker 2: the blocking and all he can do is manufactured short touches,
Speaker 2: it's just not something that the NFL will value. But
Speaker 2: so he needs to test better than maybe his anticipator
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you're running. I could pretty much say
Speaker 1: from a fantasy perspective, if you run in the four eights,
Speaker 1: it's a coffin nail for your fantasy production. The guys
Speaker 1: that are produced in the NFL running four eights, you
Speaker 1: can name them literally. On one hand, Isaiah likely as
Speaker 1: one of those guys. Now what his career turns out
Speaker 1: to be, we'll see, but likely.
Speaker 2: Could change directions and certainly had way better ball skills,
Speaker 2: so he could win down the field a little bit.
Speaker 2: My other concern with Wiley is he changes directions like
Speaker 2: the Suiz Canal tugboat. Like, so you have both the
Speaker 2: lack of speeding in the lack of changing direction. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I like that you have soft hands in you're big,
Speaker 2: but like, how is this going to translate to the NFL?
Speaker 3: If you can't separate, you can't run away from anyone.
Speaker 1: No, it's true, man, And like I said, like the
Speaker 1: names of the guys over the last like ten to
Speaker 1: fifteen years that have really been a fantasy. And I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say just even consistent guys that have run
Speaker 1: the four to eight. It's not a lot of guys man,
Speaker 1: Like we're talking about Heath Miller, Kyle Rudolph, Isaiah Likely
Speaker 1: it's a very short list. Then it's not a pretty list, man.
Speaker 1: But speaking of short, a guy that measured in unfortunately
Speaker 1: quite short from where he was listed at in college,
Speaker 1: Jeen Bell, He's got to go out and just blow
Speaker 1: up the combine thor because for everybody out there, and
Speaker 1: this is not if you go to multiple stat pages,
Speaker 1: you go to everywhere you want to look at all
Speaker 1: of his numbers, his statistical stuff box scores everywhere.
Speaker 5: Everywhere still has Geen Bell listed at six ' three. Baby,
Speaker 5: he's not that tall thor we saw Atimmobile he measured
Speaker 5: in at six one two forty four.
Speaker 1: And if you don't think that's concerning, pull up the
Speaker 1: list of names, go google it. Pull up the list
Speaker 1: of names of tight ends that have been successful in
Speaker 1: the NFL playing at six ' one. When you get
Speaker 1: sixty three sixty four, that name gets that list gets
Speaker 1: extremely short. You get to six' one and it's basically nonexistent.
Speaker 1: So Jaheim Bell, again, we're talking about guys that didn't
Speaker 1: really show us a lot iMobile, Like I don't think
Speaker 1: anybody's walking away from Mobile and Senior Bowl and saying,
Speaker 1: jahem Bell really won the week. He crushed it, especially
Speaker 1: at this size. What does he have to do at
Speaker 1: the combine in his testing, because we've seen reports of
Speaker 1: him running a four to five in high school. He
Speaker 1: supposedly jumped the thirty seven and a half vert. Even
Speaker 1: if he puts up those types of numbers, can that
Speaker 1: really help him for because I'm worried about him, like
Speaker 1: measuring in two inches shorter than you're listed is huge.
Speaker 2: It's not only gonna help him, his testing is going
Speaker 2: to make or break him. This profile requires a really
Speaker 2: good testing profile for evaluators to be able to believe
Speaker 2: that it will play at the next level. You're trying
Speaker 2: to decide is this guy a quadruple a tweener or
Speaker 2: or is he an NFL moved piece weapon And the
Speaker 2: testing is what is going to move you on that.
Speaker 2: On film, you saw all kinds of different stuff right
Speaker 2: like both at South Carolina and then in Florida State.
Speaker 2: He has won on the boundary before. Our friend Brett
Speaker 2: Whitefield posted a clip of him torching Kamari Lassiter that
Speaker 2: projected top fifty pick when Bell was on the outside
Speaker 2: ended up having a forty five yard catch. As a
Speaker 2: boundary receiver. We have seen him in the slot, we
Speaker 2: have seen him line up in the backfield, We've seen
Speaker 2: him in line We even saw him in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: At the end of the season. South Carolina had this
Speaker 2: biblical plague of running back injuries where they didn't have
Speaker 2: any scholarship healthy running backs on the roster left by November,
Speaker 2: so they were like, oh, well, let's just move Jaheem
Speaker 2: to running back for a couple games. Then Jahem's running
Speaker 2: for over one hundred yards sight unseen as the running back,
Speaker 2: So he does.
Speaker 3: A lot of that different stuff.
Speaker 2: I like the yak as a receiver, and I like
Speaker 2: at times when he was the feature dude what he produced.
Speaker 2: You go back to twenty twenty one, Jahim Bell had
Speaker 2: the highest yards per route run season by a Power
Speaker 2: five tight end since twenty fifteen. That was three point
Speaker 2: sixty seven. Brock Bauers had three point zero one in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two and last season twenty twenty three two
Speaker 2: point six five that finished fourth and sixth on that list.
Speaker 3: Number two on that list to Jaheen Bell's.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty one was Kyle Pitts in twenty twenty his
Speaker 2: last season three point two six four tenths of a
Speaker 2: yard lower point four to five point four to one lower.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, so.
Speaker 2: Jahem bel significantly higher when used as a receiver that season.
Speaker 2: Like I said, the next season, they were moving them
Speaker 2: all over, including at running back. Then this past season
Speaker 2: in Florida State, they had all these different weapons, so
Speaker 2: he was never the feature dude. They had Johnny Wilson,
Speaker 2: who we just talked about, Keon Coleman and we talked
Speaker 2: about earlier in the episode.
Speaker 3: Obviously Trey Benson, then Jordan Travis.
Speaker 2: He had to be used plenty as a runner as well,
Speaker 2: you know, doing stuff with him while he was healthy whatnot.
Speaker 2: So Jahem Belk became the sort of ancillary guy whereas
Speaker 2: trying to use his entire skill set, Like at points
Speaker 2: earlier in his career at telth Carolina, he was just
Speaker 2: the turn sary ancillary type guy on that Florida State team.
Speaker 2: Maybe didn't use all of his skill set stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But like I said, there's things about him I like.
Speaker 2: I like the north South thing. I like the skill
Speaker 2: he's showing at all these different deployments, different stuff like that,
Speaker 2: And I think he'll test well. I want to as
Speaker 2: far as the north South speed, but he needs to
Speaker 2: prove that to me. And then also I would like
Speaker 2: to see the agility. I would like see the jumps
Speaker 2: as well for him to prove that as well. If
Speaker 2: he puts forward a really good athletic profile, let's say
Speaker 2: eightieth percentile raz are above, I think that's when you
Speaker 2: can start to dream on him as this move piece
Speaker 2: around your offense whatnot.
Speaker 3: Team like the forty nine ers.
Speaker 2: I think would love a kid like this where you
Speaker 2: can line him up anywhere, he can do any different
Speaker 2: thing if he tests well enough. If he doesn't, that's
Speaker 2: when he's going to be looked at as that quadrupleit tweener.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And if he's a tweener, and because we're talking
Speaker 1: about the size and stuff, and if he doesn't test
Speaker 1: like a Marvel superhero, then you're talking about a guy
Speaker 1: that could go if he proves that he is an
Speaker 1: uber ridiculous athlete round fourth round. If he doesn't prove
Speaker 1: that at his size, you're talking about round five, round six,
Speaker 1: maybe falls out of the NFL draft. Because here's the thing,
Speaker 1: what's the role for him? If he's not as athletic
Speaker 1: as he needs to be to win at six one
Speaker 1: to forty like, then where you're you're casting him into
Speaker 1: what he's basically just a part time rotational role. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but then he's Mike Giseki without the upper receiving chops.
Speaker 3: He's he's more more like Mikekaseki could eat Jim Bell.
Speaker 3: It's more like Kylin.
Speaker 1: That's fair.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 1: No, that's fair. And that's that's where I come down,
Speaker 1: It's like, what would his role be on a team?
Speaker 1: He's gonna be an only receiving tight end that's not
Speaker 1: really big enough to play that role, So does he
Speaker 1: move to wide receiver? Like what would that look like?
Speaker 1: But you're talking about a guy that goes from third
Speaker 1: fourth round draft stock to fifth sixth round priority UDFA,
Speaker 1: and it sounds that sounds harsh, But that big discrepancy
Speaker 1: in size makes you not just an outlier. It makes
Speaker 1: you maybe this just doesn't even happen. And again, when
Speaker 1: we went to mobile Thor, like I was telling you,
Speaker 1: I was like looking at Jahim Bell and you rattled
Speaker 1: off of his analytical profile like it's really freaking impressive
Speaker 1: as a guy that over the last three years every
Speaker 1: single season has been top twelve amongst tight ends and
Speaker 1: yactpro reception and miss tackles forced. So like, the numbers
Speaker 1: are there, but he has got to back it up
Speaker 1: with the testing, dude. So I'm excited for all these
Speaker 1: guys in Combine week with JJ's gonna go out and
Speaker 1: blow it up. Jalen Wright's gonna blow it up, man,
Speaker 1: So everybody needs to stay tuned and look Thorn and
Speaker 1: I are gonna be back next week. We're gonna have
Speaker 1: a treat for you. Next week, we're gonna be recapping
Speaker 1: the combine. You need to get subscribed to the Fantasy
Speaker 1: Pros YouTube channel. We are gonna be joined by special
Speaker 1: guest friend of the show, Pat Fitzmorris. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: a good time, baby. That's all Thorn and I got
Speaker 1: for you this week. We're out of here.
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