Speaker 1: Wake that answer up.
Speaker 2: In the morning the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 3: Yeah, mister World's more dangerous morning to show to Breakfast Club.
Speaker 3: Charlamagne Godess hilarious. Envy's not here today, but we have
Speaker 3: the CEO and president of the International African American Museum
Speaker 3: in Charlton, South Carolina, doctor Tanya Matthews, is here.
Speaker 4: Good morning, doctor, Good morning Charlotte, Good morning, Jess.
Speaker 1: How y'all doing this morning?
Speaker 4: Good?
Speaker 2: That's black and holly favored.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, the only way to be. I am well,
Speaker 1: I am very very well.
Speaker 3: How has it been being a black woman in leadership
Speaker 3: of an international African American museum in Charleston?
Speaker 1: So we just coming in, might as well get into
Speaker 1: That's right, Let's go ahead and intersect.
Speaker 4: You know it has been. It has been good. I mean,
Speaker 4: you know it. It has its tensions because I would
Speaker 4: I would say one thing that the brothers and sisters
Speaker 4: are happy to see me and also surprised. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm a DC native. I also spent some time in Detroit. Right,
Speaker 4: you know, stuff gets low regular you know, we used
Speaker 4: to seeing us and then it's about how we represent.
Speaker 4: But you know, truthfully, being down in Charleston being in
Speaker 4: South Carolina, we are fewer and farther between.
Speaker 1: So so most folks are proud, uh, and they are
Speaker 1: they are excited. Uh. And and folks in the low
Speaker 1: country can pray. So listen, I got.
Speaker 4: A whole line of prayer warriors trying to keep it together.
Speaker 4: But then, you know, there are the tensions. Some folks
Speaker 4: see the unusual and embrace it.
Speaker 1: Uh, some folks don't. Uh.
Speaker 4: And so there there is that balancing uh that you
Speaker 4: that you do maintaining you gotta have a serious sense
Speaker 4: of self. You you do have to have a serious
Speaker 4: sense of self. Everyone who's in leadership has to be
Speaker 4: able to do some self critique. Right, that's just what happens, right,
Speaker 4: And you have to be able to take feedback and listen.
Speaker 4: But if you are in an environment that does not
Speaker 4: fully and constantly welcome you, you have to have some
Speaker 4: shall we say, discernment along with that critique.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: You have to know which of the criticisms are coming
Speaker 4: at you to lift you up and which ones are
Speaker 4: coming at you to break you down.
Speaker 2: Oh how do you do that?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 4: That's back on the prayer warriors. Probably well, you know,
Speaker 4: and and there are some people that you really trust,
Speaker 4: Like you know, you have some people in your life
Speaker 4: that they can call you out right and you know
Speaker 4: that you know they love you.
Speaker 1: You also know.
Speaker 4: They kind of wise, and so you can you can
Speaker 4: take that under advisement. I have a few of those
Speaker 4: folks in my life, and so I know when they
Speaker 4: say something that's real, and then sometimes I will I
Speaker 4: will bring things to them, but like, okay, this there's
Speaker 4: some feedback I got. You know, what what do you
Speaker 4: think about about this? And so uh so, yeah, it's
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's tough. It's tough, and there are
Speaker 4: some moments where you just decide we just gonna have
Speaker 4: to brust our shoulders off on that one and keep
Speaker 4: it moving.
Speaker 3: They're the conversation about black women and leadership in this
Speaker 3: country that I don't think we're having because when you
Speaker 3: talk to the systems, they say there's challenges. No, they
Speaker 3: be trying to take y'all out. When I think about
Speaker 3: Claudian Gay, when I think about what's happened in the
Speaker 3: Fanny Willis and I think about Maryland Molesby, when I
Speaker 3: think about the VP Kamala, they'd be trying to take
Speaker 3: y'all out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, that is that is true, And I would say,
Speaker 4: you know, it's so funny. We do need sometimes other
Speaker 4: folks to say that right, because you're right. When you
Speaker 4: are in those positions, we say, yes, we have challenges,
Speaker 4: there is there are learning curves. You know, we have
Speaker 4: all of these phrases because the truth of the matter
Speaker 4: is we have a job to do right, and there
Speaker 4: is language that we use in these in these positions.
Speaker 4: And so I like to think that those who can
Speaker 4: hear hear what we're saying, and those who can't hear
Speaker 4: don't hear what we're.
Speaker 1: Saying, right.
Speaker 4: And so you know, it's very interesting watching the conversations around,
Speaker 4: you know, doctor Gray, doctor Claudine Gray. And I think
Speaker 4: what folks missed is that her situation wasn't unique.
Speaker 1: It was high profile. There's a very there's a very
Speaker 1: very big difference there.
Speaker 4: There were so many, you know, commonalities that I had
Speaker 4: seen in other conversations with other sisters.
Speaker 1: And maybe you know they're.
Speaker 4: They're the head of HR or the chief general counsel
Speaker 4: of some giant company, and those aren't the folks who
Speaker 4: get on the news, right, those aren't the names that
Speaker 4: you would know. But but the battle was the same,
Speaker 4: the the kind of attacks, the way things are being
Speaker 4: interpreted were very similar. And so I would say probably
Speaker 4: one of the most discouraging things about that to me
Speaker 4: is that I could recognize what was happening, which meant
Speaker 4: that in many ways it was it was familiar. But
Speaker 4: then again, I will also say that, you know, sometimes
Speaker 4: there are roles and positions you take where you understand
Speaker 4: that the that weathering the storm is part of the work,
Speaker 4: and if you aren't in the storm, you're probably not
Speaker 4: in the right position.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: Right, So you know, it's it's a it's an interesting
Speaker 4: balancing act. Yoga and prayer one more time, y'all stay
Speaker 4: with me, yoga and prayer.
Speaker 2: Yoga and prayer, Yoga and prayer.
Speaker 1: I'm trying another now I'm with childs. I'm trying yoga.
Speaker 5: Now, I've been with prayer, been with prayer. My mother
Speaker 5: is my prayer warrior, among many others. But yes, I'm
Speaker 5: trying yoga now. I'm trying to you know, as I
Speaker 5: gaze off, I'm really trying.
Speaker 4: And well, I think being a mother also helps because
Speaker 4: sometimes being in protection mode, when you're protecting others, there's
Speaker 4: a different kind of strength in that right, Like, sometimes
Speaker 4: it's easier to stand in the gap for others than
Speaker 4: it is to stand.
Speaker 1: In the gap for yourself.
Speaker 4: So so I find that motherhood, fatherhood, paring her, whatever
Speaker 4: hood you talking about, that that also helps in that space.
Speaker 2: But who's protecting the mothers? That's what that's that's what.
Speaker 4: I always Charlemagne you, I mean, so it is that
Speaker 4: is a really that that is a really good, good question.
Speaker 4: And I think that if I can give some grace
Speaker 4: to those that I would like to see protect the
Speaker 4: mothers a little bit more. I think one of the challenge,
Speaker 4: particularly with black there's maybe all mothers, is that we
Speaker 4: don't always call for help, right, you know, we know
Speaker 4: that black women have this thing. We're gonna take a look,
Speaker 4: We're gonna keep on moving because dinner is at six, Like,
Speaker 4: this is how this works. I got issues, I got challenges,
Speaker 4: but baby gotta go to school. Let's make it happen.
Speaker 4: And so I think that that kind of thing where
Speaker 4: we do and we do, and we do until we
Speaker 4: can't do anymore, doesn't really give a lot of room
Speaker 4: for those who want to help us and who would
Speaker 4: help us enough. Notice, you know, we're black women, by
Speaker 4: the time you find out we need some help. We
Speaker 4: own the flow, you know, we find in all the records.
Speaker 4: So Mamma, you knew, you knew this was an issue.
Speaker 4: And so I think part of it is indeed the
Speaker 4: environment around us, but also part of it is knowing
Speaker 4: when to pause, to acknowledge, also to ask for some
Speaker 4: help and some support, which is not always our strong suit.
Speaker 2: Just you know, you don't like that for no help.
Speaker 1: No, not all the time. No, not all the time.
Speaker 5: And then you know that that comes with experience too,
Speaker 5: like you know, and that creates experience, you know, so
Speaker 5: I can be able to tell you know, a story,
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying, and not not that's what
Speaker 5: I do it for. But I like to go through
Speaker 5: some things, you know what I'm saying for myself, as
Speaker 5: opposed to just hearing you know, the ones before me
Speaker 5: that they went through. It's like, oh, maybe it could
Speaker 5: be different from me, or maybe you know, I can
Speaker 5: gain something different from it, you know, and then teach
Speaker 5: others and.
Speaker 1: Stuff like that. So yeah, he's right, He's right.
Speaker 5: I'm very resilient though, I'm very resilient, and I can
Speaker 5: be stubborn, but come from my mother too, you know
Speaker 5: what I'm saying, So it speaks volumes to what you're saying.
Speaker 1: It's a result of that.
Speaker 5: But for the people who don't know, why do you
Speaker 5: think it's so important for us to tell our own stories?
Speaker 4: So I think it's it's really important to tell our
Speaker 4: own stories because one they belong to us, right. I
Speaker 4: have this thing about stories that there are stewards of
Speaker 4: stories and there are owners of stories. We want everyone
Speaker 4: to tell our story. That means you're a steward. If
Speaker 4: I give you my story, I want you to share it.
Speaker 4: You know, particularly when we talk about say, African American history.
Speaker 4: I don't need just black folks telling black folks story.
Speaker 4: We want everyone to tell the story. And that makes
Speaker 4: you a steward. But then if you're the owner of
Speaker 4: the story, right, you have some special responsibility, But you
Speaker 4: also got some special love for your own story. I mean,
Speaker 4: only you can tell it with that level of emotion,
Speaker 4: that level of flavor. And the other thing is one
Speaker 4: of the things that I do like about modern conversations
Speaker 4: is I often hear the phrase do not argue with lived.
Speaker 1: Experience, sure, right, And so when.
Speaker 4: Folks are at least willing to say that that means
Speaker 4: that you, as the owner of the story, are the
Speaker 4: authority on that story, and you can step into that
Speaker 4: space of this is my lived experience. And folks may
Speaker 4: want to dismiss the bigger picture, but they can't dismiss
Speaker 4: that particular story that you are speaking to because it
Speaker 4: does belong to you. And so I think that's one
Speaker 4: major reason. But the other major reason is there is
Speaker 4: power and frankly, and talk about yourself. Now, some folks
Speaker 4: talk about themselves little too much. Okay, that's not what
Speaker 4: I'm talking about. That's not what I'm talking about. But
Speaker 4: to be able to decide that your own story deserves space, right,
Speaker 4: you know, headspace, heart space, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: And so you were going to speak up and you
Speaker 4: were going to talk about and tell your story. I
Speaker 4: think that's important for everyone.
Speaker 1: But real talk. You know, Black.
Speaker 4: Folks were often told the opposite, right, that our story
Speaker 4: didn't need space, that it didn't deserve space, and we
Speaker 4: weren't allowed to talk about these experiences. And then we
Speaker 4: have to use softer words when we're talking about these experiences,
Speaker 4: as if telling my story automatically meant I was blaming someone.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 4: But either way, it's the lived experience. And so I
Speaker 4: think for black folks, some of the anger, some of
Speaker 4: the self loathing, sum of the challenges that we have
Speaker 4: are really about having to hold the story in and
Speaker 4: what it takes to do that. You have to diminish
Speaker 4: self to hold the story in. You have to reorient
Speaker 4: yourself to be constantly surrounded by everyone else's story. And
Speaker 4: I think it's something that we that we see often
Speaker 4: when folks come to the museum, particularly when black folks
Speaker 4: come to the museum, it feels like a bit of
Speaker 4: an exhale, like like, oh that that's that's me on
Speaker 4: the wall.
Speaker 1: A real pretty well, because we look good, y'all need
Speaker 1: to come on down. We look we look good. We
Speaker 1: look good down down at the museum.
Speaker 4: So it's a it's a beautiful space. And I and
Speaker 4: I watch folks walk into the room and one of
Speaker 4: the things they seem to be surprised by is to
Speaker 4: have our stories obviously reference in black folks, our story
Speaker 4: is told in such a magnificent and expansive way.
Speaker 1: Right it were a.
Speaker 4: Big museum and we're a modern museum, and you can
Speaker 4: see elements of designs, you know, We've gotten rewards and
Speaker 4: awards for our architecture and that kind of thing, but
Speaker 4: to see you know, our stories in that kind of
Speaker 4: space is still unique. And so sometimes people walk in
Speaker 4: and I can almost like literally feel the exhale as
Speaker 4: they see the.
Speaker 1: Story in that way.
Speaker 2: How is business been since opening?
Speaker 1: So we have we have passed our one hundred thousandth visitors. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: for us, it's.
Speaker 4: Been less than us seven months and we hit that number.
Speaker 4: So that has been amazing. Uh, you know, the number
Speaker 4: one complaint we get as that folks can't get a ticket.
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, you know, there is a website you
Speaker 4: can pre register for your ticket. You wouldn't have to
Speaker 4: worry about that. So so that has been really good.
Speaker 4: I'm also excited that, you know, we're still getting interest
Speaker 4: from you know, media and that kind of thing, and
Speaker 4: they're asking other questions. Right one, when you build something new,
Speaker 4: everybody wants to talk about you building a new thing.
Speaker 4: So I'm excited that folks are still asking questions. Uh,
Speaker 4: the Genealogy Center, our center for family history, remains.
Speaker 1: Very very popular. Folks eyes get real big.
Speaker 4: When when we talk about about that. So a lot
Speaker 4: of those classes are also hybrid. So we're we're now
Speaker 4: now that it's been a little over six months, we
Speaker 4: are getting visitors who have taken one of our virtual
Speaker 4: classes and now they're really excited to be in the
Speaker 4: actual Center for Family History right now. They got follow
Speaker 4: up questions, So that has actually been.
Speaker 1: Very cool too.
Speaker 4: And this was our first semester of formerly supporting school groups.
Speaker 4: Obviously school groups could always come, but we had to
Speaker 4: get you know, the program and the special tours in place,
Speaker 4: and so that that is is starting, and there's there's
Speaker 4: a lot there's a lot of life, you know that
Speaker 4: comes into the building, you know, with with eighth graders
Speaker 4: in that space. But I would also say it's it's
Speaker 4: a little interesting because, say, particular for urban school districts,
Speaker 4: African American students and that kind of thing, it's always
Speaker 4: this interesting tension around how to discipline shall we say, you.
Speaker 1: Know, thirty excited young young folks.
Speaker 4: But you know, we really are a culturally we're a
Speaker 4: culturally black space, so it's a little different as well.
Speaker 1: I have volunteers that will pull your.
Speaker 4: Child, I have I have listened, listen, we got we
Speaker 4: got grandmother's own duty, and they will just give you
Speaker 4: that look and the baby's like, okay, so which is
Speaker 4: which is actually really good and it's done with love,
Speaker 4: but it is really done. And also they come in
Speaker 4: and they look they see us said, oh I see auntie. Okay,
Speaker 4: let me let me ask you right. Uh so, so
Speaker 4: that has actually been been really cool.
Speaker 3: What were some of the criticisms you had to overcome
Speaker 3: when you first opened the museum?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was interesting.
Speaker 4: I you know, there were i would say pre concerns, right,
Speaker 4: which I'm also happy to say we're uh, frankly invalidated
Speaker 4: if you ask me so.
Speaker 1: One for example, on the.
Speaker 4: Black folks side, black folks were were wondering, we're curious,
Speaker 4: we're critical of whether or not we'd be able to
Speaker 4: tell the truth. Literally that was like, y'all gonna tell
Speaker 4: the truth up in there, because and and real talk.
Speaker 4: You know, this is this is the South, this is
Speaker 4: the deep South of South Carolina's low country. I would say,
Speaker 4: you know, telling the truth about black history is not
Speaker 4: exactly the brand.
Speaker 1: Uh sort of in that space.
Speaker 4: And there were some concerns that that we wouldn't want
Speaker 4: to do it right, and I think we got over that.
Speaker 4: And then there are concerns that we simply wouldn't be
Speaker 4: able to do it. It got in the bless your
Speaker 4: heart category, y'all really think y'all gonna pull this off,
Speaker 4: bless your heart.
Speaker 1: And but you know, I actually actually took that to heart.
Speaker 4: I understood that folks are trying to tell me that
Speaker 4: this was going to be hard to do this. But
Speaker 4: you know, they've come in, they've they've seen the stories,
Speaker 4: they seen some stories that that they know, you know,
Speaker 4: because so much happened in South Carolina. Even though we're
Speaker 4: a national museum, we have plenty of South Carolina stories
Speaker 4: and all of these things are not that far back,
Speaker 4: so we have people who have lived some of the
Speaker 4: stories we're telling.
Speaker 1: So they will come in.
Speaker 4: They'll be very exciting, like pointing at stuff. I've literally
Speaker 4: heard phrases like I've seen that picture of her in
Speaker 4: thirty forty years.
Speaker 1: Word, can I get you into the story booths so
Speaker 1: we can get the rest of the story.
Speaker 4: So so that was on that, and then non black folks,
Speaker 4: their biggest concern was, you know, are you gonna yell
Speaker 4: at me?
Speaker 1: You notice you notice Charlotte. That was that was the
Speaker 1: big one, was are you gonna yell at me.
Speaker 4: But the interesting part is that some folks who were
Speaker 4: who were ready, they were like, I get it.
Speaker 1: You know, I've heard, I've read snippets. I'm ready. Which
Speaker 1: part am I gonna get yelled at?
Speaker 4: Like they were basically asking, all right, I'm ready, And.
Speaker 1: I'm like, whoof yelling at you? Would not be good
Speaker 1: for business. That is not what we are trying to
Speaker 1: do here sort of in this space.
Speaker 4: But the other thing it is because it's it's black
Speaker 4: folks telling black folks stories from a black perspective. That's
Speaker 4: why there's no yelling. It's not say and intentionally trying
Speaker 4: to be nice, is that this conversation is actually about us.
Speaker 4: You have the opportunity to be a fly on the
Speaker 4: wall hear all the stories that we may have told
Speaker 4: at the dinner table that you never got to hear
Speaker 4: all about books we've read.
Speaker 1: Or experiences and that kind of thing.
Speaker 4: I'm always surprised when folks are just finding out about
Speaker 4: some things that I've always known, right and everyday, folks.
Speaker 4: I have a really, really, really good girlfriend, white sister.
Speaker 4: She was my ride to die when I was hanging
Speaker 4: out there in Detroit, and one day she says, I
Speaker 4: said something something, something, We're gonna open up like we
Speaker 4: always do with the Black National anthem.
Speaker 3: Da Da da.
Speaker 1: And I had seen her.
Speaker 4: At events because she she would go with me to
Speaker 4: all these events. She knew the words, right, since your
Speaker 4: mother are singing. And she said, well, what's the Black
Speaker 4: National Anthem? I said, you know, that's a song the
Speaker 4: lift every voice and sing. And she literally said, oh,
Speaker 4: I thought that was just the song that black folks
Speaker 4: like to sing every time open up an event, right, So,
Speaker 4: because that isn't part of the language and the history,
Speaker 4: folks will say, you know, I just found out about
Speaker 4: the Tuskegee experiment. Word, oh okay, that that explains so
Speaker 4: many of our previous conversations sort of in terms of
Speaker 4: those things. And so it's an incredible opportunity. And so
Speaker 4: folks and not getting yelled at, and they're very surprised
Speaker 4: that they're not getting yelled at, but they're buying all
Speaker 4: the books instead. Uh So, I think I think those
Speaker 4: those are the kinds of things. And then you know,
Speaker 4: we did get some some interesting comments, uh that were
Speaker 4: that were more subtle. If anyone has also read Lonny
Speaker 4: Bunch's book A fool's errand when he talks about the
Speaker 4: building of the African American History Museum at the Smithsonian,
Speaker 4: you get so like subtle, subtle things like you know what.
Speaker 1: How much did that cost? Again?
Speaker 4: Which is a good question, and it makes sense we
Speaker 4: want to be financially responsible. But you can tell when
Speaker 4: it's asked in certain environments versus others, right, which is
Speaker 4: really the question is is it worth that much? Should
Speaker 4: we actually be spending that much on that? And so
Speaker 4: the energy of those those kinds of questions come off
Speaker 4: quite a bit. I do have some neighbors that are
Speaker 4: still concerned about the boom boom music that my home
Speaker 4: that might be coming out. Uh.
Speaker 1: So you know, so we we we do.
Speaker 4: We do turn down to breakfast club when we're playing
Speaker 4: that when we're setting up in the morning.
Speaker 1: But you know, so you will get I think those.
Speaker 4: Those kinds of of of comments and conversations there. But
Speaker 4: I would say, you know, on paper and and most loudly,
Speaker 4: we've been.
Speaker 1: Very well received.
Speaker 4: But I would also acknowledge that there is always a
Speaker 4: bit of a honeymoon period, especially when when folks are
Speaker 4: paying attention. Uh, and so we're soaking up all the
Speaker 4: good vibes, and we will use them as a fuel
Speaker 4: to move forward through whatever the next phase is.
Speaker 5: How do you feel about places like Florida? You know
Speaker 5: they they're making it illegal for kids to learn about
Speaker 5: our history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let me let me channel my n Michelle.
Speaker 4: Let me let me channel my Ani Michelle and go
Speaker 4: high on this one.
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I want to scale a one to Harriet,
Speaker 3: tell me.
Speaker 4: Exactly, exactly exactly. So so here here's the thing about this.
Speaker 4: You know, we're doing a lot of talk around diversity
Speaker 4: and inclusion.
Speaker 1: They do all the studies.
Speaker 4: Businesses do better, schools do better, kids do, but everything
Speaker 4: does better when we're doing sort of diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 4: I am so curious as to why it has still
Speaker 4: not occurred to anyone that perhaps America's superpower is our diversity.
Speaker 4: That being the most diverse nation on the planet is
Speaker 4: why we managed to be and stay number one despite
Speaker 4: all the challenges we have. You know, if you measure
Speaker 4: the school systems one to one, America's you know, we
Speaker 4: don't necessarily went on that. When you compare things like oh,
Speaker 4: I don't know, access to healthcare, wonder one, We're We're
Speaker 4: not the head on the like all of these individual measures,
Speaker 4: you know, we're never quite at the top yet. And
Speaker 4: still we are one of the most powerful, not the
Speaker 4: most powerful nation on the planet, the most creative, the
Speaker 4: most innovative. We're always sort of leading in these spaces.
Speaker 4: And I believe it's because we have this level of diversity,
Speaker 4: this wrangling. We are not monolithic in that space. And
Speaker 4: so whenever you have anything that challenges our superpower. Right So, frankly,
Speaker 4: I think this sort of anti diversity, anti teaching, the
Speaker 4: the culling of history. I think it's the kryptonite to
Speaker 4: our superpower. And so I don't understand and I don't
Speaker 4: envision say, places like like a Florida with what they're doing.
Speaker 4: I don't think that you can disenfranchise half of your
Speaker 4: population and still be economically viable, right, I don't. I
Speaker 4: don't see how you can not leave a whole lot
Speaker 4: of money on the table when you got half your
Speaker 4: genius locked locked behind the door. And this is not
Speaker 4: just about limiting black folk, you are also limiting everybody
Speaker 4: else when they do not have the opportunity to learn
Speaker 4: one of the greatest human resiliency stories of all time. Listen,
Speaker 4: Black folks are mythical, right, just with all the ways
Speaker 4: we sort of tell these stories. So when you take
Speaker 4: those stories, when you take those lessons out of the
Speaker 4: history and the learning, we are all weaker, right, you know,
Speaker 4: Black folks, we're the ones raging against it because this
Speaker 4: really challenges our ability to identify ourselves. But at the
Speaker 4: end of the day, everyone pays for this, and so
Speaker 4: I just I don't think it's a wise move. But
Speaker 4: I would also say that at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: our elected officials are elected because we elected them, right,
Speaker 4: And so I have a low tolerance on these kind
Speaker 4: of conversations. I always respond with, well did you vote?
Speaker 4: That's my first part of the question. And I know
Speaker 4: and da da da da and stealing a vote and
Speaker 4: calling the vote and change, okay, okay, okay, you can't
Speaker 4: complain about that to.
Speaker 1: Me until you vote, right.
Speaker 4: And I was just listening one one day and the
Speaker 4: brother was like, listen, I'm not sure whether it works
Speaker 4: or not, but I know that the cost for the
Speaker 4: opportunity is way too high, so I'm gonna go ahead.
Speaker 4: And in I said, that's a really good way of
Speaker 4: looking at that. And so while I do hold our
Speaker 4: leader's account. Well, because I am a leader and I
Speaker 4: know what those responsibilities are. I also hold the folks
Speaker 4: who have the power a little chunk of the powers
Speaker 4: as well, right because frankly, if we I don't know,
Speaker 4: you know, stop supporting this or that, it is about
Speaker 4: money and so a lot of these conversations go with
Speaker 4: the money is. And so I would say, now Charleston
Speaker 4: has an International African American Museum, we.
Speaker 1: Also have beaches.
Speaker 4: So if you're looking for an alternative, right, if you
Speaker 4: look at it, if you're looking for something else to do,
Speaker 4: you can you can come down for for that way.
Speaker 4: But I don't think it's it's wise, and I and
Speaker 4: I do think it's it's very very dangerous. And I
Speaker 4: think that this trying to tamp down a significant portion
Speaker 4: of the American identity is why we are all so shook,
Speaker 4: even if we can't quite articulate it.
Speaker 3: When you look at where we are now in this country,
Speaker 3: what can the International African American Museum teach us about
Speaker 3: overcoming a lot of these challenges we're facing up?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know, it's interesting where we are now.
Speaker 4: I like to use the analogy of a rubber band, right,
Speaker 4: if you're trying to break a rubber band, you got
Speaker 4: to stretch it until it breaks, otherwise it'll just snap back.
Speaker 4: And I think what you will learn sort of in
Speaker 4: our museum and museums like this, is that we have
Speaker 4: been here before, right, Lessons that you do not fully learn,
Speaker 4: you are doomed to repeat. You know, the history is
Speaker 4: a is a gracious teacher, and you can redo the
Speaker 4: test as many times as you need to until you
Speaker 4: get all the answers correct. And so when you learn
Speaker 4: about periods such as, for example, reconstruction, right, that is
Speaker 4: the period in our history that most reminds me of
Speaker 4: what's happening right now, which is there is this moment
Speaker 4: of great hope, great strides, UH, African American elected officials
Speaker 4: just popping up out of whatever slavery is apparently over.
Speaker 1: We're gonna move forward.
Speaker 4: The slap back was ridiculous, right, This is this is
Speaker 4: where we come into the Jim Crow. This is where
Speaker 4: we get into what we call the Nator.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: It got really really bad.
Speaker 4: When when we saw the nation allowing the African American
Speaker 4: community to make this level of this level of progress.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: And and so as we're we're looking at this now.
Speaker 4: You know, I remember very recently there was a period
Speaker 4: of hope black folks getting elected to stuff they weren't
Speaker 4: supposed to get elected to. We were moving, we were
Speaker 4: moving forward, We're having all of these conversations, and so
Speaker 4: here comes to slap back, right in terms of that
Speaker 4: we have to stretch these these concepts, and nothing is
Speaker 4: ever one and done. Right, It's like going to the gym, right, ladies,
Speaker 4: y'all with me, big day coming up. Whatever that dress is,
Speaker 4: You got to fit in this dress. We in there
Speaker 4: working it out for forty five days. Boom, we're getting
Speaker 4: a dress done. If you never went to the gym, again,
Speaker 4: guess what, you're not getting back in that dress. You're
Speaker 4: not getting back in a dress. And so it works.
Speaker 1: The same the same way.
Speaker 4: And so you know, I think we make these strides,
Speaker 4: we make these moves, and then we're like, great, boom,
Speaker 4: that battle is done. Let's move on to the next battle.
Speaker 4: But it all requires constant nourishment, at least for a
Speaker 4: generation or two, a sort of in that in that space.
Speaker 4: So I think one the lessons that we can learn
Speaker 4: is that this is not entirely new.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: Two the thing we learn is that you must keep
Speaker 4: keeping it on. And three sometimes have changed a bit.
Speaker 4: So let's let's level up a little bit on some
Speaker 4: of our strategies and the things that we can do,
Speaker 4: because the truth of the matter is that with all
Speaker 4: this that is going on, black folks and those who
Speaker 4: ally and accomplice with us are farther along, and we
Speaker 4: do have more power and we do have more options
Speaker 4: than we did, which means we have additional tactics and
Speaker 4: things that we can do and things that we can
Speaker 4: we can use. So so one, it should be somewhat encouraging.
Speaker 1: We're not the first to have to go through this.
Speaker 4: But two it should be very encouraging because we don't
Speaker 4: just talk about the struggles in the museum. We also
Speaker 4: talk about the progress, right, learn about the progress, you know,
Speaker 4: do something you know with with that progress, think about
Speaker 4: our platforms differently, and so so hopefully it's it's it's
Speaker 4: a little encouraging. Hopefully it's it's really encouraging. What are
Speaker 4: you looking at if you're starting? Because he always said
Speaker 4: giving you some space, yeah, because no, he'd be starning
Speaker 4: me because he'd be like, when I get you quiet,
Speaker 4: that means I'm tired I'm pregnant.
Speaker 2: Just make sure you speaking of being pregnant.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So it is women's history.
Speaker 4: It is women's history, and earlier it's the first day
Speaker 4: for in Earlier I spoke about my mom.
Speaker 1: I wanted to honor her, you know.
Speaker 5: And but like, what are some other ways that we
Speaker 5: can honor, you know, the women, not even only our
Speaker 5: moms and women in our lives, but just honor women periods,
Speaker 5: women's history.
Speaker 4: You know, I am honestly still a sucker for for
Speaker 4: being referred to as you know, being part of the lineage, right,
Speaker 4: you know, you know, I I love it when folks
Speaker 4: be like I see you, sister, you magical. It's like
Speaker 4: the rest of them like like those kinds of things.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's nice, you know when folks, you know,
Speaker 4: compliment us as individuals. But I think it's also nice
Speaker 4: to be in that category of strong black women. Don't
Speaker 4: abuse it, right, don't don't overdo it like make us
Speaker 4: do everything. But there is something something to that just
Speaker 4: phrases like I see you siss Yeah, it's so powerful,
Speaker 4: like you don't even we don't even know what you're
Speaker 4: talking about.
Speaker 1: Who I feel see today? Okay?
Speaker 4: Okay, So so that that I think is is good,
Speaker 4: and I think to also do it three sixty right.
Speaker 4: You know, we we honor our mothers, we honor our grandmothers,
Speaker 4: but let's let's make sure the nieces and the daughters
Speaker 4: and the younger cousins feeling a little love to right,
Speaker 4: you know, So building building that up, that up now,
Speaker 4: and it's it's really interesting. I finally I think I've
Speaker 4: come to the age where where I can see how
Speaker 4: much it makes a difference.
Speaker 1: You just see their eyes let up like you you said,
Speaker 1: you see me.
Speaker 4: And so that I think is in the the lovey
Speaker 4: dovey kind of generic stuff. But I would also say
Speaker 4: for for those of us in the work, you know,
Speaker 4: some real deal tactical stuff. I remember being in meetings
Speaker 4: where you know, your your classic power play shenanigans. You know,
Speaker 4: we're sort of happening some about race, some about gender,
Speaker 4: all this kind of stuff. And I saw one sister
Speaker 4: take one comment like really to heart, like like I
Speaker 4: saw it. This was back in COVID times. It was
Speaker 4: like zoom days, you know, when we could like private
Speaker 4: chat to folk. And you know, I sent her a
Speaker 4: quick note. I was like, uh, honey, we all heard
Speaker 4: him say it brush his shoulders level up. I see
Speaker 4: you keep it moving, and you know she went up.
Speaker 4: But she's like, you saw that, you heard that, you
Speaker 4: see me.
Speaker 1: I was like, of course, I see you, I got you.
Speaker 1: We're here. I feel it too.
Speaker 4: But we will discuss after the meeting, and it it
Speaker 4: meant the world, uh to her in those spaces. So
Speaker 4: I would also say that when as we are out
Speaker 4: there moving and shaking, like when when you see things happening,
Speaker 4: you know how we do that wink, that nod, that
Speaker 4: little look that that we can that we can always
Speaker 4: across the room. I remember asking my mother once because uh,
Speaker 4: they're a sister and I'm we were sort of scheming
Speaker 4: behind us, some business stuff going on, and I said, Mommy,
Speaker 4: I said, they're going to know that we're talking to
Speaker 4: each other. We're not supposed to talk to each other
Speaker 4: because we're supposed to be on different sides, right, We're
Speaker 4: supposed to be on different sides of this conversation. And
Speaker 4: my mother said to me, she said, I cannot explain
Speaker 4: to you why, but for some reason, they never figure
Speaker 4: out that the black women are talking to each other.
Speaker 1: I was like.
Speaker 4: Wow, I was like really, cause it's just to do
Speaker 4: it us. Like what she said, I trust, I don't know. Uh,
Speaker 4: And so which is which is wonderful that we we
Speaker 4: can still have that language, you know, in those in
Speaker 4: those spaces, uh. And I I know that there are
Speaker 4: some folks who are concerned that if they align in
Speaker 4: the wrong way right, that the that the pushback will
Speaker 4: come to them too, Because I was afraid. I was like,
Speaker 4: we gonna get in trouble, you know, sort of in
Speaker 4: that space. One, it's trouble that's worth getting into. So
Speaker 4: buckle up, buckle like right, good job, like, so buckle up.
Speaker 4: But two, I think that one of the the challenges
Speaker 4: of the myth is that we don't work together and
Speaker 4: that we don't align it, so folks don't don't easily
Speaker 4: see it.
Speaker 1: When it's when it's happening. So I say that that
Speaker 1: is is another way.
Speaker 4: And then you know, on a practical tip, I don't know, everybody,
Speaker 4: once a week, look up a woman's story that you've
Speaker 4: never heard of, I don't know, find find find a
Speaker 4: famous find a famous sister, and and and look it
Speaker 4: up and then take.
Speaker 1: Her story as her story.
Speaker 4: It is not a challenge to your story just because
Speaker 4: you haven't done X Y Z or Just because I
Speaker 4: would like to talk about ABC does not mean I'm
Speaker 4: telling you that you have not done enough. Brothers, It
Speaker 4: does not mean that I don't love you. It just
Speaker 4: means that it's my month, okay, all right, just like
Speaker 4: we did for February, it's March like it's it's my
Speaker 4: month in that in that space. And I also like
Speaker 4: to think of these months as this is women's history
Speaker 4: kickoff month, right, but this is how you kick it
Speaker 4: off for the rest of the year. So feel free
Speaker 4: to share a powerful woman's story in July. Just it's
Speaker 4: it's okay, right, it's listen.
Speaker 1: You will be, you will.
Speaker 2: Be, you will be.
Speaker 3: All right, Yeah, you've got a couple more questions. Who's
Speaker 3: the woman's story that inspired you?
Speaker 1: Oh, I think it would be the other half of
Speaker 1: my my life and my brain. And that's going to be.
Speaker 4: Uh, Nikki Giovanni and Maya Angelo, a couple of folks
Speaker 4: know that the other half of my life is is
Speaker 4: as a poet, is as a poet. And you know,
Speaker 4: when I was coming up, and I was I was young,
Speaker 4: and I was doing my thing every once in a while,
Speaker 4: sort of an elder older person would come to me like,
Speaker 4: you know who you remind me of? Nikki Giovanni and
Speaker 4: I knew the name, and it was just it was
Speaker 4: just such, it was just such a thing that that
Speaker 4: folks would relate me to that because of course, you know,
Speaker 4: she had inspired me. You know, we all have our
Speaker 4: like ours. It's kind of Nikki like poem. And then
Speaker 4: I actually got to meet her. You know, we are
Speaker 4: a couple of degrees of separation. And then she added
Speaker 4: a collection and I got in the collection, and so
Speaker 4: to be recognized by someone who recognizes you. And then
Speaker 4: it was after this I was just looking at her
Speaker 4: as a sister and a black woman and a poet.
Speaker 4: And then I began to understand all the lgbt Q
Speaker 4: sort of that community and that challenge. And I'm like,
Speaker 4: she ain't complained boo about that. She just up in
Speaker 4: there hustling and working and doing her thing.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 4: And then when we had that that shooting at the
Speaker 4: university in Virginia, I swear Nikki saved them all just
Speaker 4: just the way that the spirit of a sister and
Speaker 4: then wrapping that in in poetry just sort of calmed
Speaker 4: the campus down. So that was Niki because I grew
Speaker 4: up sort of wanting to have that kind of fire.
Speaker 4: And then she saw me. And then there's Maya Angelo,
Speaker 4: which is I will never be that nice, common, peaceful girl.
Speaker 4: I mean she she just had that that essence, that
Speaker 4: spirit and what most people probably don't know if you
Speaker 4: haven't seen. She was really tall, right, she was over
Speaker 4: like six feet fee. She is majestic, and she she
Speaker 4: still walked that way because she also used to dance
Speaker 4: for the longest time. She gave the welcome freshman addressed
Speaker 4: at Duke University, which is where I went. So that
Speaker 4: was the first time I got to see her in
Speaker 4: person and just this level of energy.
Speaker 1: But even in that peacefulness when.
Speaker 4: She would talk about stories, which is, you know, I
Speaker 4: don't let people bring negative energy in my house. If
Speaker 4: I'm having an event and I see some negative event energy,
Speaker 4: I kindly escored them out the door.
Speaker 1: And I was say, oh, we we can do we
Speaker 1: can do that.
Speaker 4: Then I also found out that she was she had
Speaker 4: a life. She's a little free.
Speaker 1: She ain't care, but she ain't care. If she wants something,
Speaker 1: she go get it.
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, all right, so you can you
Speaker 4: can be this and you can still be full and human,
Speaker 4: ah and whole. And she does something that I don't
Speaker 4: quite yet do with my my poetry, which is, you know,
Speaker 4: a lot of her poetry was incredibly personal and incredibly
Speaker 4: open to like her particular experience, and that was also
Speaker 4: something that I was reaching for. And so between those
Speaker 4: two women, like every time a new documentary or book
Speaker 4: or something comes out, it just sort of blows my
Speaker 4: mind and reminds me that that they're whole people. So
Speaker 4: I would say those are those are two of my
Speaker 4: inspiration stories.
Speaker 2: What are the plans for the one year anniversary of
Speaker 2: the museum? Oh?
Speaker 1: My gosh, it is.
Speaker 4: It is so coming, you know, because we just open.
Speaker 4: I'm like, we just opened. It's like the anniversary's already
Speaker 4: Like that.
Speaker 1: Is that twelve months? So one?
Speaker 4: You know, obviously we opened up on June twenty seven,
Speaker 4: then we start our opening ceremonies a little bit before that.
Speaker 4: For me, that means I get the entire month of June.
Speaker 4: I definitely get the entire juneteen season, all right, So
Speaker 4: June teethh is our whole anniversary season. So of course
Speaker 4: there is a Juneteenth itself, So we are gonna have
Speaker 4: some special programs and kickoffs for that. And one of
Speaker 4: the things I actually like about that is that in
Speaker 4: our particular community, the museum does not have to lead Juneteenth.
Speaker 4: And folks may be surprised to hear me say that,
Speaker 4: you know that, I'm excited to be sort of like supporting,
Speaker 4: But that's a sign of a community that's growing. Right.
Speaker 4: So now a low country you got foux five like
Speaker 4: June teen celebrations, and I'd be out there trying to
Speaker 4: get to all of them.
Speaker 1: So that's good.
Speaker 4: So that's kind of the kickoff in that in that space,
Speaker 4: and so there's there's that joy and then there's also
Speaker 4: that reverence.
Speaker 1: Like the thing I do is.
Speaker 4: I like to always interweave, always interweave sort of the
Speaker 4: trauma and the joy and the resilience and the victory
Speaker 4: all that together because it also comes around the anniversary
Speaker 4: of Mother Emmanuel, Right, so all of that, all of
Speaker 4: that is happening. They are not disconnected and they don't
Speaker 4: have to be. You know, how black folks do. You've
Speaker 4: been to our funerals. We know how to get this
Speaker 4: done right. And so so that's kind of how we
Speaker 4: have that kickoff. We're gonna have sort of our own
Speaker 4: version of kind of like a.
Speaker 1: Classy bizarre is how we're gonna do sort of our
Speaker 1: anniversary event.
Speaker 4: I go to a lot of sit down galas with
Speaker 4: the tablecloth and all that kind of stuff, and it's
Speaker 4: it's good. But but you know, when you can do
Speaker 4: something a little different, do a little something a little different.
Speaker 4: So we finally have our building, so we're gonna be
Speaker 4: able to use our outside space to have sort of
Speaker 4: a kind of an upscale kind of bizarre. So we're
Speaker 4: designing what that's gonna look like. So stay tuned on that.
Speaker 4: But that's coming. And during June, Secretary Bunch is coming down.
Speaker 4: So Secretary lining, but I know I'm looking at your facials,
Speaker 4: so he listen. He told me, he's like, you get
Speaker 4: a couple of things, what do you need. He is
Speaker 4: a good man. He's a good man, and he's a
Speaker 4: great mentor to many of us in the field. And
Speaker 4: so he's gonna come down. We're gonna do a little
Speaker 4: little fireside, little fireside chat. So I'm gonna get a
Speaker 4: little shine, a little shine off off of Secretary Bunch
Speaker 4: that he's gonna be there as well. So we've at
Speaker 4: least got got those those kinds of things going in
Speaker 4: that space. Little something special for our members, a little
Speaker 4: something special for our donors.
Speaker 1: So it'll be it'll be good.
Speaker 3: I want everybody to support the International African American Museum.
Speaker 3: Go to i AA museum dot org to support and
Speaker 3: get more information. But Doctee, I've never asked you to
Speaker 3: do this. What would you mind h ending on a
Speaker 3: poem or something?
Speaker 4: Some things in the in the low Country a little spooky, right,
Speaker 4: There's there's some serious energy down there, and.
Speaker 2: We're very supernatural people. You believe in the supernatural, it
Speaker 2: really is.
Speaker 4: And so there's this thing happening with with the number
Speaker 4: with the number nine, right, So of course there's the
Speaker 4: Emmanual nine that was Mother Emmanuel, and then there's the
Speaker 4: the Charleston nine and these were these were the firemen
Speaker 4: that went in the space and we lost them. And
Speaker 4: then there were the nine that we lost at the
Speaker 4: Albrighton Wilson explosion. And the fact that okay, listen, I
Speaker 4: was like three nines and I was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't know sort of what what does happen and
Speaker 4: in here? But I was invited to do something for
Speaker 4: Spotlight Awards, which was in awards that sort of uses
Speaker 4: the memories of those folks to honor folks who have
Speaker 4: done some service. And so this is this is the
Speaker 4: poem that came came out. So this is called Rise.
Speaker 4: It's dedicated to the Emmanuel nine, the Charcon nine, and
Speaker 4: the nine we lost at the Albrighton Wilson explosion. Uh.
Speaker 4: And it riffs off of a quote by Dinos Christanopolis,
Speaker 4: which is, what didn't you do to bury me?
Speaker 1: But you forgot that I was a seed.
Speaker 4: When they tried to bury me, I discovered I was seed.
Speaker 4: Told I came from nothing, but I got roots, conditioned
Speaker 4: to be weak, but kin known to break through concrete.
Speaker 4: So I watched and learned, and stretched and burned and
Speaker 4: birthed and grew and flowered. So when the mowers came,
Speaker 4: I laughed like a dandelion. When the axe men returned,
Speaker 4: I rolled my eyes like acorns. Some folk don't know
Speaker 4: how trees work. When they tried to bury me, I
Speaker 4: discovered I was seed. Then they threatened me with the
Speaker 4: storm and found out I was born of the water.
Speaker 4: That thing threatens them the most, who that day say
Speaker 4: I can't swim. My tears salted these seas crying over
Speaker 4: bones and desperate. Please, I marched deep through these waters,
Speaker 4: like bridges, like tunnels. My wake spirals and funnels memory, headstones,
Speaker 4: that birth, coral feed schools, cushion quakes, carved canyons, calcified
Speaker 4: shark teeth, cat volcanoes at the spout, and sometimes, just sometimes,
Speaker 4: these waves rise up and remind the storm what water
Speaker 4: is really about. When they tried to bury me, I
Speaker 4: discovered I was seed. Then they tried to burn me
Speaker 4: and found out that I am the flame. Set fire
Speaker 4: to my home, set bomb in my gardens, set brands
Speaker 4: on my body, even use my religion to burn. When
Speaker 4: will we learn? Never torch a phoenix, nine feathers to
Speaker 4: pray and redeem you. None feathers to work every day
Speaker 4: and feed you. Ninefold wingspan x spand flies into the
Speaker 4: flames and saves you.
Speaker 1: Hate fizzles. Only love sets fire like I do.
Speaker 4: Water from that storm quenched me, Heat from that flame
Speaker 4: released me. I sang myself to sleep beneath the soil,
Speaker 4: so deep and sweet and true. When you tried to
Speaker 4: bury me, I discovered I am seed. So the only
Speaker 4: thing left to say is thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor Mathew.
Speaker 1: You are so welcome.
Speaker 3: CEO and President of the International African American Museum at Charlton,
Speaker 3: South Carolina, once again. Go to IAA Museum dot org
Speaker 3: to get more information on the museum or to get
Speaker 3: tickets if you can.
Speaker 1: That's right, come on down to Charleston. We got you
Speaker 1: a ticket.
Speaker 2: Oh we're going. We're going this summer. Are you gonna
Speaker 2: be pregnant though.
Speaker 3: You can do You're gonna you know, you're gonna be
Speaker 3: like eight nine months, but now don't know if you
Speaker 3: can fly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be able to fly.
Speaker 2: We'll see.
Speaker 5: My du date is August eighteenth, so we're gonna come.
Speaker 4: Yeah, come, we're coming for augusta June, you know when
Speaker 4: you've got all that stuff going on exactly.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, June, Jim be plenty of time. You ain't
Speaker 1: come to deliver six months, ygnant. You can't do nothing
Speaker 1: around here.
Speaker 3: Women's mom, doctor Tanya Matthews.
Speaker 2: It's the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club