Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stefan
Speaker 1: never told you a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: And welcome and Happy Women's International Day, International Women's Day.
Speaker 2: That says it wrong, International Women's Day.
Speaker 1: Annie, Yes, Happy International Women's Day to you as well.
Speaker 2: And y'all, we are actually recording the day of just
Speaker 2: to give you a time frame. Yes, this is March eighth,
Speaker 2: four and yeah, this is very current affairs, so everything
Speaker 2: we speak of is going to be relatively current, so
Speaker 2: in the last couple of years for sure. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's International Women's Day and what better day than to
Speaker 2: talk about the declining birth rate? No, yeah, yes, that's
Speaker 2: a hell of an introduction, right, yes, definitely, And we're
Speaker 2: gonna go ahead and put a content warning so we're
Speaker 2: not necessarily talking about anything to a graphic, but there's
Speaker 2: going to be a conversation about children and babies and
Speaker 2: birthy and reproductive health. So there you go, and limited
Speaker 2: rights of women and marginalized communities.
Speaker 1: All right, let's have ce Wenesday.
Speaker 2: That's how we do it. So I think we talked
Speaker 2: about this actually this week. We always have these ideas
Speaker 2: for our shows, and we oftentimes, especially me underestimate how
Speaker 2: deep some of these topics run. I will say I
Speaker 2: was able to do this one in one episode, I hope,
Speaker 2: unless we get to really deep conversations, so I want
Speaker 2: to edit all that. But yes, uh, this is a
Speaker 2: little larger than what I had, which we were going
Speaker 2: to do as a Monday mini because I've seen so
Speaker 2: many tiktoks about it and I was like, yes, we
Speaker 2: need to talk about this, and I really thought that
Speaker 2: this specific topic was going to be a quick rundown
Speaker 2: of the declining population and the people who have refused
Speaker 2: to have more children as a form of protests to
Speaker 2: the ill treatment and constant abuse that they've had to
Speaker 2: suffer at the hands of the patriarchy and misogynists in
Speaker 2: Asian countries specifically. But as per usual, while doing the research,
Speaker 2: we found some connections, some disturbing connections all around the
Speaker 2: world on how politicians and people in power i e.
Speaker 2: Men in power and racists are trying to find against
Speaker 2: people who can get pregnant and who are choosing not
Speaker 2: to have children. So we've had several episodes talking about
Speaker 2: different perspectives on choosing whether or not to have children.
Speaker 2: People who are not physically able to have children and
Speaker 2: for those who do have children, the good, the bad,
Speaker 2: the difficulties, and the rewards. We've talked about the sexism, racism,
Speaker 2: able ism, and so many other isms when it comes
Speaker 2: to the overturning of Roe v. Wade and all the
Speaker 2: other violations that are part of the aftermath. Go back
Speaker 2: to our recent episode on the Comstock Act. But today
Speaker 2: we're not just talking about those who have decided to
Speaker 2: go gett societal norms and not star families, which is
Speaker 2: causing a decline in birthsen and the population, but also
Speaker 2: talking about the link between the declining birth rate and
Speaker 2: current abortion bands that are happening today. And that's just
Speaker 2: a really minor part in this, but we thought it
Speaker 2: was important to talk about it because the link is there,
Speaker 2: the connections are there, and we need to have a
Speaker 2: broader conversation about that and where we're going with this
Speaker 2: and where it is getting frightening. It's been frightening. So
Speaker 2: with all of that, let's talk numbers. We love some numbers.
Speaker 2: According to recent reports and data, the number of people
Speaker 2: choosing not to have children has caused a significant decline
Speaker 2: of the birth rates, so much so that many governments
Speaker 2: are approaching panic. To try to adjust those numbers and
Speaker 2: to help us discuss this topic, we wanted to add
Speaker 2: this quote from visualcapitalist dot com titles charted the rapid
Speaker 2: decline of global birth rates, which differentiates birth rate and
Speaker 2: fertility rate so quote. Birth rates are commonly measured using
Speaker 2: a metric called the crude birth rate or CBR, which
Speaker 2: represents the number of live births per one thousand individuals
Speaker 2: in a given population during a specific period, usually one year.
Speaker 2: The measured decline in CBR is also a result of
Speaker 2: plummeting fertility rates across the globe. Not to be confused
Speaker 2: with birth rates, fertility rates measure how many children a
Speaker 2: woman will have over the course of her lifetime. While
Speaker 2: the country's birth rate is directly impacted by the fertility rate,
Speaker 2: it also takes into account other factors population size, a
Speaker 2: structure of the population, access to contraception, cultural norms, government policies,
Speaker 2: and socioeconomic.
Speaker 1: So with that, a research article that we found on
Speaker 1: the United Nations Population's fund Are UNFPA titled policy responses
Speaker 1: to low Fertility? How effective are they? Says quote. In
Speaker 1: the last three decades, sub replacement fertility has spread around
Speaker 1: the world one half of the global population today lives
Speaker 1: in countries where the period total fertility rate is below
Speaker 1: two point one burst per woman. East Asia, Southern Europe,
Speaker 1: and parts of Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe reached ultra
Speaker 1: low fertility rates, with the period total fertility at one
Speaker 1: to one point four and family size at one point
Speaker 1: four to one point six verths per woman born in
Speaker 1: the mid nineteen seventies.
Speaker 2: Right, and the information that was released in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: three seems to only confirm these ideas, so that was
Speaker 2: from twenty nineteen. According to the same Visualcapitalist dot com,
Speaker 2: every country on the list has seen a decline in
Speaker 2: birth rates in the last seventy years, with some declines
Speaker 2: more staggering than the others. For example, China recorded forty
Speaker 2: one births per one thousand people in nineteen fifty. By
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, that number had fallen to just seven
Speaker 2: point six at an eighty one percent decrease. South Korea,
Speaker 2: the twenty ninth most populous country in the world in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, saw an even larger eighty six percent
Speaker 2: drop in its birth rates since nineteen fifty. In fact,
Speaker 2: almost every single country in this data set has seen
Speaker 2: a double digit fall in their birth rates over the
Speaker 2: past seventy years. Only the Democratic Republic of Congo has
Speaker 2: seen a single digit percentage decline between nineteen fifty and
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. And you know what's happening with the DRC.
Speaker 2: So I feel like those numbers are askewed. And the
Speaker 2: list they show or talk about is quote a snapshot
Speaker 2: of the CBR for the forty nine most populous countries
Speaker 2: of the world at different years from nineteen fifty to
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. Just to add some contexts, right.
Speaker 1: The Economists featured in an article in twenty two three
Speaker 1: addressing the possible consequences of the declining birth rate. The
Speaker 1: article says, quote, and they're roughly two hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: years since the Industrial Revolution. The world's population, like its wealth,
Speaker 1: has exploded. Before the end of the century, however, the
Speaker 1: number of people on the planet could shrink for the
Speaker 1: first time since the Black Death. The root cause is
Speaker 1: not a surge in deaths, but a slump and burse
Speaker 1: across much of the world. The fertility rate, the average
Speaker 1: number of burst per woman, is collapsing, and it continues
Speaker 1: quote in two thousand, the world's fertility rate was two
Speaker 1: point seven burst per woman, comfortably above the replacement rate
Speaker 1: of two point one at which a population is stable.
Speaker 1: Today it is two point three and falling. The largest
Speaker 1: fifteen countries by GDP all have a fertility rate below
Speaker 1: the replacement rate. That includes America and much of the
Speaker 1: rich world, but also China and India, neither of which
Speaker 1: is rich, but which together account for more than a
Speaker 1: third of global population. The result is that in much
Speaker 1: of the world, the patter of tiny feet is being
Speaker 1: drowned out by the clatter of walking sticks. The prime
Speaker 1: examples of Asian countries are no longer just Japan and Italy,
Speaker 1: but also include Brazil, Mexico, and Thailand. By twenty thirty,
Speaker 1: more than half the inhabitants of East and Southeast Asia
Speaker 1: will be over forty. As the old dye and are
Speaker 1: not fully replaced, populations are likely to shrink. Outside Africa,
Speaker 1: the world's population is forecast to peak in the twenty
Speaker 1: fifties and end the centuries smaller than it is today.
Speaker 1: Even in Africa, the fertility rate is falling fast.
Speaker 2: So of course, the reasons behind the lower birth rates
Speaker 2: may differ all over the world, as does the possible solutions,
Speaker 2: But according to the earlier article from UNFPA, quote, among
Speaker 2: the main drivers of low fertility is the incompatibility between
Speaker 2: professional career and family life. In times of women's massive
Speaker 2: post secondary education and labor force participation on the one hand,
Speaker 2: and rising individualistic aspirations on the other hand, the inability
Speaker 2: to combine paid work with child rearing often results in
Speaker 2: childlessness or having one child only. This is closely connected
Speaker 2: with persistent gender inequalities and housework divisions. For decades, societies
Speaker 2: with strong traditional gender role norms have been continuously witnessing
Speaker 2: very low fertility. More recent factors contributing to fertility decline
Speaker 2: include the trend towards intensive parenting, as well as labor
Speaker 2: market uncertainty and instability coupled with soaring house prices. And
Speaker 2: though some narratives may try to point at feminism and
Speaker 2: it's kind of true and the overall lack of desire
Speaker 2: for children in the first place as the reason for
Speaker 2: birth rates declining, there's a lot of research showing that
Speaker 2: desirability for children hasn't gone down at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually read an interesting article kind of relating
Speaker 1: to to this the other day about how a lot
Speaker 1: of parents can only afford to have one kid, like
Speaker 1: they want kids, but they can only have the run.
Speaker 1: So there's this like really big explosion of single only children.
Speaker 1: But that puts pressure on them because, at least in
Speaker 1: the US, a lot of times the children have to
Speaker 1: pay for your parents when they get older, when they
Speaker 1: get sicker, and so it's sort of causing this this
Speaker 1: really negative effect of these kids not being able to
Speaker 1: afford that and kind of getting really in bad financial
Speaker 1: situations because they're the only child, which is right, A
Speaker 1: lot of that situation is messed up anyway, Like we
Speaker 1: shouldn't write our medical system in the US is not
Speaker 1: good exactly but exactly. I thought that was interesting because
Speaker 1: I hadn't really considered that before.
Speaker 2: Well, I've definitely been told many times, who's going to
Speaker 2: take care of you when you were old?
Speaker 1: Yes, me too, exactly how are you going.
Speaker 2: To be all alone?
Speaker 1: I think? Mom? Thanks? Okay, Well, here's a quote from
Speaker 1: the Conversation dot com about the US birth rates and
Speaker 1: some data they had found during their research. Quote. We
Speaker 1: found remarkable consistency and childbearing goals across cohorts. For example,
Speaker 1: if we look at teenage girls in the nineteen eighties,
Speaker 1: the cohort born in nineteen sixty five to sixty nine,
Speaker 1: they planned to have two point two children on average.
Speaker 1: Among the same age group in the early twenty first century,
Speaker 1: the cohort born in nineteen ninety five to nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: nine girls intended to have two point one children on average.
Speaker 1: Slightly more young people planned to have no children now
Speaker 1: than thirty years ago, but still the vast majority of
Speaker 1: US young adults planned to have kids, around eighty eight
Speaker 1: percent of teenage girls and eighty nine percent of teenage boys.
Speaker 1: We also found that as they themselves get older, people
Speaker 1: plan to have fewer children, but not by much. This
Speaker 1: pattern was also pretty consistent across cohorts among those born
Speaker 1: in nighte teen seventy five to seventy nine. For instance,
Speaker 1: men and women when they were twenty to twenty four
Speaker 1: planned to have an average of two point three and
Speaker 1: two point five children, respectively. These averages fell slightly to
Speaker 1: two point one children for men and two point two
Speaker 1: children for women by the time respondents for thirty five
Speaker 1: to thirty nine. Still, overwhelmingly most Americans plan to have children,
Speaker 1: and the average intended number of children is right around.
Speaker 2: Two Right and I think you and I have talked
Speaker 2: about when we saw ourselves in early twenties, we really
Speaker 2: thought by twenty five we would have two children. I
Speaker 2: had two children in mind, it had to be an
Speaker 2: even number. And I just saw TikTok about that about
Speaker 2: how like because one of them will be alone of
Speaker 2: activities are like if they have to ride a plane
Speaker 2: and then you have to separate, like all these things
Speaker 2: about wanting to have either two or four to make
Speaker 2: sure that didn't happen, And I was like, yeah, and
Speaker 2: also like the middle child syndrome, the fact that you
Speaker 2: don't want to have one middle child of the three
Speaker 2: because that's too traumatic. At least have two so I.
Speaker 1: Can bond as a middle child.
Speaker 2: Of course I would not. I'd never plan to have
Speaker 2: a big family. I also had said that it would
Speaker 2: depend on my husband, like even being very much into
Speaker 2: the like the Jesus world, I knew that if I
Speaker 2: was doing this alone, Hellna.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean that's another factor to consider in
Speaker 1: this conversation.
Speaker 2: Right, But I really did think that I was going
Speaker 2: to have that many children. And then as I get
Speaker 2: older and older, and at this point it's almost almost
Speaker 2: too late, I say, not really but because like I
Speaker 2: have friends my age who just had children. I'm like, congratulations,
Speaker 2: and they're all happy and healthy, and I love that
Speaker 2: for them. But like, up until recently, like the last
Speaker 2: three four years, I could not have afforded. I was
Speaker 2: living with people, I was actually having roommates. So there's
Speaker 2: no way to me that I could have actually had
Speaker 2: a child to pay for all the things and had
Speaker 2: a full time job, and like the amount of responsibility
Speaker 2: to me was too much, and just the thought of
Speaker 2: it made me have a panic attack.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the things that frustrates me the most.
Speaker 1: And I'll see sort of the like millennials or whatever
Speaker 1: generation that's younger is rooting everything. They're not buying houses,
Speaker 1: they're not getting kids, Like we can't afford it, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is different. I'm sure plenty of people
Speaker 1: would like to, but actually it's kind of a responsible
Speaker 1: decision to be like, you know what, I can't afford it.
Speaker 1: It's sad if you want kids and you can't afford them,
Speaker 1: but it is thought is going into it of like Okay,
Speaker 1: I can't do this right now.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure many people will be like we turned
Speaker 2: out fine. We weren't rich all these things, But then
Speaker 2: you also have to be like, yeah, but there's also
Speaker 2: a lot of trauma, not a lot of people who
Speaker 2: are not okay, So I just don't forget that far, Like, yes,
Speaker 2: for sure, absolutely, And this is not even adding on
Speaker 2: to like health issues. So if you are a disabled
Speaker 2: individual trying to manage all of that on top of like,
Speaker 2: there's so many two points to this conversation that we
Speaker 2: even leave out because all of these studies and all
Speaker 2: of these incentives and I should have put this at
Speaker 2: the top, are very much based on a heteronormative CISC
Speaker 2: couple and an ablistic idea that they are perfectly able
Speaker 2: to have children without complications. So because yeah, one of
Speaker 2: the things that we are not going to mention, and
Speaker 2: here's the medical expenses, which should be one of the
Speaker 2: number one things because well, the US being the biggest
Speaker 2: problem with like sulbsized healthcare anyway, mumble mumble, because the
Speaker 2: healthcare sucks. But when we talk about that in general,
Speaker 2: that the cost of all of that is also a problem,
Speaker 2: but we don't mention that here. And again when we're
Speaker 2: talking about these who they are actually going after especially
Speaker 2: and these countries they're going after a heteronormative couples because
Speaker 2: we don't mention it. But like Japanese government is not
Speaker 2: focused at all on the queer community, as in fact,
Speaker 2: it's almost like doubling down saying that they don't need
Speaker 2: rights at one point. So just a reminder. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: along with all the facts found in the UNFPA article,
Speaker 2: it speaks to the fact that many couples are waiting
Speaker 2: much later to have children, which may limit the amount
Speaker 2: of because they intend to have they write compared with
Speaker 2: earlier eras people today start having their children later, these
Speaker 2: delays also contribute to declining birth rates. Because people start later,
Speaker 2: they have less time to meet their child bearing goals
Speaker 2: before they reach biological or social age limits for having kids.
Speaker 2: As people wait longer to start having children, they are
Speaker 2: also more likely to change their minds about parenting.
Speaker 1: And yes, that's where I am, y'all. But they also
Speaker 1: note that the reasons stated earlier were very much linked
Speaker 1: to the decline. The article continues, but why are people
Speaker 1: getting a later start on having kids? We hypothesize that
Speaker 1: Americans see parenthood is harder to manage than they might
Speaker 1: have in the past. Although the US economy overall recovered
Speaker 1: after the Great Recession. Many young people in particular feel
Speaker 1: uncertain about their ability to achieve some of the things
Speaker 1: they see as necessary for having children, including a good job,
Speaker 1: a staple relationship, and safe, affordable housing. At the same time,
Speaker 1: the cost of raising children, from childcare and housing to
Speaker 1: college education are rising, and parents may feel more pressure
Speaker 1: to live up to high intensive parenting standards and prepare
Speaker 1: their children for an uncertain world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all of that is absolute reasons for me that
Speaker 2: I decided I did not want to have children. Now
Speaker 2: we've gotten the general numbers and facts, so we've got
Speaker 2: a good base. We're going to look more closely at
Speaker 2: some of the countries that have been making headlines when
Speaker 2: it comes to this conversation, and we will start with
Speaker 2: the original idea behind this episode of the Asian countries,
Speaker 2: and we're only focused on three majors. Don't come at
Speaker 2: me because there's so much more out there. But we
Speaker 2: were just trying to get examples, and we're talking about
Speaker 2: the way men who've made a not so subtle statement,
Speaker 2: you know, Like we've talked a little bit about the
Speaker 2: feminist movement in South Korea and the activists who've been
Speaker 2: fighting back against at an administration that has been using
Speaker 2: every misogynistic tactic to reverse a lot of the work
Speaker 2: that seemed to be happening once upon a time when
Speaker 2: it came to moving forward in feminism and that included
Speaker 2: the four BE Movement. Check out our Feminists around the
Speaker 2: World episode we talked about, but just as a quicker reminder,
Speaker 2: the four BE movement is the four Nos, which originated
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, according to Like being public
Speaker 2: and stands for no sex with men, no child rearing,
Speaker 2: no dating men, and no marriage to men. And although
Speaker 2: this is a simple version of what the overall movement means,
Speaker 2: the stance is to amplify the stark disadvantage is placed
Speaker 2: on women in the nation, as well as the overall
Speaker 2: abusive nature of the patriarchal state of the country. And
Speaker 2: this with the attributing factors we mentioned before, it's not
Speaker 2: surprising that South Korea is currently the number one country
Speaker 2: with the lowest current birth rate in the world, and
Speaker 2: it's been like that for about three four years.
Speaker 1: Well. According to a recent BBC article published this month,
Speaker 1: South Korea has the lowest birth rate in the world
Speaker 1: and it continues to plummet, beating its own staggeringly low
Speaker 1: record year after year. Figures released on Wednesdays show it
Speaker 1: fell by another eight percent and twenty twenty three to
Speaker 1: zero point seven to two. This refers to the number
Speaker 1: of children a woman is expected to have in her
Speaker 1: lifetime for a population to hold study, that number should
Speaker 1: be two point one. If this trend continues, Korea's population
Speaker 1: is estimated to have by the year twenty one hundred.
Speaker 2: Right, I don't know where North Korea comes into the
Speaker 2: play with this. I'm guessing it doesn't because the statistics
Speaker 2: aren't from there. But that's that's that's drastic and honestly, yeah,
Speaker 2: like we said, this may be one of those situations
Speaker 2: where they could blame feminism for the declining population because
Speaker 2: the people they've had enough for many of the women
Speaker 2: in Korea, they have learned that having a child could
Speaker 2: not only be adding on more responsibility, but also cost
Speaker 2: them their job, their independence, and overall their freedom. According
Speaker 2: to the same BBC article, they say the Korean women
Speaker 2: know too much. Essentially, One twenty eight year old woman
Speaker 2: who worked in HR said she's seen people who were
Speaker 2: forced to leave their jobs or who were passed over
Speaker 2: for promotions after taking a maternity leave, which had been
Speaker 2: enough to convince her to never have a baby. Korean
Speaker 2: women are the most highly educated of those in the
Speaker 2: OECD countries, and yet the country has the worst gender
Speaker 2: pay gap in a higher than average proportion of women
Speaker 2: out of work compared to men. Researchers say this proves
Speaker 2: they're being presented with a trade off have a career
Speaker 2: or have a family. Increasingly they are choosing a career,
Speaker 2: and for those who would gladly choose family over career,
Speaker 2: they can't afford to do it. The article will continue.
Speaker 2: More than half the population live in or around the
Speaker 2: capital Soul, which is where the vast majority of opportunities are,
Speaker 2: creating huge pressure on apartments and resources. Soul's birth rate
Speaker 2: has sunk to zero point five point five, the lowest
Speaker 2: in the country. Then there's the cost of private education.
Speaker 2: While unaffordable housing is a problem the world over. This
Speaker 2: is what makes Korea truly unique.
Speaker 1: But housing isn't the only problem. The price for education
Speaker 1: for children also adds up. Here's another quote from the
Speaker 1: age of four. Children are sent to an array of
Speaker 1: expensive extracurricular classes, from mass and English to music. In taekwondo.
Speaker 1: The practice is so widespread that to opt out is
Speaker 1: seen as setting your child up to fail, an inconceivable
Speaker 1: notion in hyper competitive Korea, this has made it the
Speaker 1: most expensive country in the world to raise a child.
Speaker 1: A twenty twenty two study found that only two percent
Speaker 1: of parents did not pay for private too days well
Speaker 1: ninety four percent said it was a financial burden.
Speaker 2: And y'all, if you've watched any K dramas, you know
Speaker 2: this is true. Like people will get real really like
Speaker 2: people have died according to the K dramas.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: Trying to get these kids into these classes, and like
Speaker 2: it's it is like, from what I understand, people private
Speaker 2: tutors who are acclaimed they're almost as famous as K
Speaker 2: pop people like wow, education is very valued and we've
Speaker 2: kind of always known this to the point that it
Speaker 2: became a joke. But it is costly, which I'm like, huh.
Speaker 2: I always think, I'm like, what, I've been one of
Speaker 2: those two percent that didn't make it. Probably oh sad me.
Speaker 2: And of course this all comes with the expectation that
Speaker 2: women will continue their level of housework and child rearing
Speaker 2: at the same time. Is helping with income. That BBC
Speaker 2: article continues, over the past fifty years, Korea's economy has
Speaker 2: developed a breaknext propelling women into higher education and the
Speaker 2: workforce and explaining their ambition, But the roles of wife
Speaker 2: and mother have not evolved at nearly the same price.
Speaker 2: And still I think there's a whole thing about in
Speaker 2: laws too, and who takes care of them, and it's
Speaker 2: the wife. Like it's this like over the top understanding
Speaker 2: that you are taking over not only your own household
Speaker 2: but his household. And in some respect that tradition is
Speaker 2: still pretty steeped. And the government I've seen it coming
Speaker 2: and instead of seeing that they need to actually talk
Speaker 2: to those that's affected by it. But the most they
Speaker 2: try to throw some money at their problems.
Speaker 1: Of course, here's the quote from a March twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four article published in Time dot com. President Moonjayan launched
Speaker 1: several policies to try and incentivize women to have more children,
Speaker 1: including cash incentives for families. Under the scheme, every child
Speaker 1: born from twenty twenty two onwards receives a cash bonus
Speaker 1: of two million, one eight hundred and fifty US dollars
Speaker 1: to help cover prenatal expenses. In addition to a monthly
Speaker 1: payout that increases every month until the baby turns one.
Speaker 1: Other incentives include free day care, subsidized pay during childcare leave,
Speaker 1: and even group blind dates for public servants to try
Speaker 1: and match make couples.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so they can help.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: In fact, the country has spent an estimated two hundred
Speaker 2: billion US dollars to try to fix this problem, but
Speaker 2: as of today hasn't resulted to any changes, and they've
Speaker 2: tried other solutions, including hiring nannies from Southeast Asian countries
Speaker 2: and paying them below minimum wage gross gross, trying to
Speaker 2: incentivize exempting men from military services if they have children
Speaker 2: when at the under the age of thirty, which sounds
Speaker 2: like a misdirect but apparently, according to another study, men
Speaker 2: are part of the big problem too as well, maybe
Speaker 2: because they can't find women. I don't know, but I
Speaker 2: said that and other texts like this. But it wasn't
Speaker 2: until just recently that the politicians, and I mean like
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, that the politicians realize that maybe talking
Speaker 2: to the citizens, specifically women or those who can give birth,
Speaker 2: may be helpful. And yeah, in the past year they
Speaker 2: have been going around the country talking to the younger generations.
Speaker 2: But yeah, still no results as of yet that we have.
Speaker 1: Seen or talked about.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen any published saying that that's helping and
Speaker 2: anybody's changing their minds, because most of them are not.
Speaker 2: And China has been going through a similar decline. Of course,
Speaker 2: the history of China and babies not good. Not good.
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty, the Chinese government implemented the one child policy,
Speaker 2: which was so strict that women were into situations they
Speaker 2: did not choose for themselves. According to an article written
Speaker 2: for the Global Institute of Women's Leadership, a Chinese researcher wrote,
Speaker 2: for thirty five years from nineteen eighty to twenty fifteen,
Speaker 2: the Chinese government maintained a one child policy, subjecting millions
Speaker 2: of women to force contraception, for sterilization, and forced abortion,
Speaker 2: and there have been stories about the level of cruelty
Speaker 2: the government would use in order to maintain that one
Speaker 2: child policy, including killing, the killing of newborn infants, kidnapping
Speaker 2: of women if they had were on their second or
Speaker 2: more pregnancy, or even taking family members of the pregnant
Speaker 2: person as hostages if that expectant person was in hiding,
Speaker 2: so they went all out, and it was in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: a year after they dropped the one child policy, the
Speaker 2: government increased it to two and it now has risen
Speaker 2: to a three child policy, allowing people to have up
Speaker 2: to three children now right, But.
Speaker 1: There are many who are so ch traumatized by the
Speaker 1: past policies that they still live as if they are
Speaker 1: still under those policies. Here's a quote from an article
Speaker 1: from NPR. The policy permeates through Chinese society in other,
Speaker 1: sometimes unexpected ways, because many prioritized having a son over
Speaker 1: a daughter. Orphotages experienced a surge, and baby girls who
Speaker 1: are abandoned or put up for adoption. Singles Day, China's
Speaker 1: biggest online shopping holiday akin to Black Friday in the US,
Speaker 1: is a recognition of the many bachelors who are unable
Speaker 1: to find partners in a gender skewed society.
Speaker 2: So that could be part of the reason. It could be,
Speaker 2: But the understanding is also there's still kind of a
Speaker 2: preference to men two boys, which doesn't make sense. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and the greatest scream of things, But I digress. And
Speaker 2: though they have changed the policy since then and now
Speaker 2: seem to recognize that there may be a problem with
Speaker 2: the fact that the population has declined. They have been
Speaker 2: second largest. For the past few years, India has been
Speaker 2: number one for the most populous, which seems to be
Speaker 2: a blow to the nation's ego. That surprised me, how
Speaker 2: figured that's what they wanted. But okay, but their new
Speaker 2: policies hasn't changed the birthway.
Speaker 1: Yes, adding on to the imbalance of gender in the population,
Speaker 1: the cost of living in gender inequality has also affected
Speaker 1: the numbers, much like South Korea. According to CNBC, as
Speaker 1: more women attain higher qualifications and rise up the ranks
Speaker 1: in the workplace, they expect their husbands to earn more
Speaker 1: than them. In twenty twenty, female students accounted for almost
Speaker 1: forty two percent of doctorate degree enrollment and a significantly
Speaker 1: higher number of women enrolled for a master's degree than men.
Speaker 1: Satista data showed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course, so that means people have been
Speaker 2: twosier when it comes to finding their man, to the
Speaker 2: point that people have been throwing money people, governments and
Speaker 2: corporations haven't thrown money at men to make them look
Speaker 2: better for mating purposes. Like, I don't know how else
Speaker 2: to say that.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're right, but it sounds so like documentary.
Speaker 2: Nafety cut is this is where we're going at and
Speaker 2: just as a reminder, but this still is the expectation
Speaker 2: that women will take on all the household work and
Speaker 2: that women have less rights and will be responsible for
Speaker 2: this entirety of growth of populations essentially, and of course
Speaker 2: add to that the rising costs of housing and supplies
Speaker 2: as we talked about earlier, along with the increase of
Speaker 2: children allowed per household, the government and even corporations have
Speaker 2: tried to add incentives for people to have more children.
Speaker 2: Trip dot Com has tried to help with the situation. Specifically,
Speaker 2: according to that same CNBC article, trip dot com is
Speaker 2: one Chinese company that takes pride in trying to encourage
Speaker 2: more women to have children. In an organization where more
Speaker 2: than half of its thirty thousand employees are women, the
Speaker 2: online travel agency came up with its own solution to
Speaker 2: encourage women in the company to have more children, and
Speaker 2: a part of that instead of is offering subsidies to
Speaker 2: help with the cost of freezing eggs, which actually kind
Speaker 2: of smart to me, Yeah, because they do talk about
Speaker 2: the fact that that time frame that women specifically use
Speaker 2: to get their career and all that stabilized is that,
Speaker 2: you know, I guess the critical time, but it's a
Speaker 2: short time, so they can actually help them pause that process.
Speaker 2: Maybe that will increase in the likelihood that they will
Speaker 2: have children later on. They were talking about this and
Speaker 2: they helped by giving this money, which ranges from fifteen
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to three hundred thousand dollars. Again, kind of
Speaker 2: a smart idea. I might have done that, to be honest,
Speaker 2: not now with the IVF stuff in the US. No,
Speaker 2: but you know, like this is like to me, it's
Speaker 2: one of the smart plans.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw a flyer once at my university. I was like,
Speaker 1: we'll pay you this much money to freeze your eggs.
Speaker 1: And I thought about it, but then I was like,
Speaker 1: why I.
Speaker 2: Had people who said they want my eggs.
Speaker 1: Oh, they would pay you for your eggs?
Speaker 2: Really, you know, you know you didn't get those the only.
Speaker 1: One I mean, I saw a flyer. I don't recall an.
Speaker 2: I got an email like okay, okay, Like I was
Speaker 2: like what and I thought about it for a split seconds,
Speaker 2: not gonna lie, like, but they wanted white babies, so
Speaker 2: didn't help.
Speaker 1: Well, the government has tried a few tactics as well.
Speaker 1: Going back to China. According to Time Quote, Chinese government
Speaker 1: also tried to introduce new policies to encourage couples to
Speaker 1: have more children, enhance childcare, and improve housing facilities for
Speaker 1: families with children. Recently, some academics have even proposed taxing
Speaker 1: couples for having too few children while making access to
Speaker 1: abortion and divorce harder. M and yeah pay attention to
Speaker 1: that last part, limiting access to divorce and abortions right.
Speaker 2: So. The Japanese birth rate has also been greatly declining,
Speaker 2: very similar to South Korea. Many have chosen not to
Speaker 2: have children due to the inequality and gender rights and opportunities,
Speaker 2: as well as the overall financial burden of having a family.
Speaker 1: According to financialpolicy dot com quote, today Japanese women on
Speaker 1: average have just one point twenty six children, far below
Speaker 1: the rate of two point one children per woman, considered
Speaker 1: by demographers as necessary to maintain a stable population. Up
Speaker 1: to forty percent of adult Japanese women and fifty percent
Speaker 1: of men will not have children in their lifetime according
Speaker 1: to government estimates.
Speaker 2: And again, much like South Korea, a lot of the
Speaker 2: reasons boiled down to the cost of living, cost of
Speaker 2: education for children, and according to the same foreign policy
Speaker 2: dot Com article, the cost for childcare alone in Japan
Speaker 2: for two children is about half the earnings of a
Speaker 2: couple who have full time incomes, and the wages have
Speaker 2: barely been raised in the past thirty years, so significant amount.
Speaker 2: And just the overall lack of interest in being married,
Speaker 2: although that could also have something to do with the affordability.
Speaker 2: So here's another quote from Foreign policy dot Com. It's
Speaker 2: not just the desire to have children that's diminished. Surveys
Speaker 2: point to waning interest in relationships and sex, especially among
Speaker 2: young people. For Haruku Sakamato, a researcher at the Department
Speaker 2: of Global Health Policies at the University of Tokyo, this
Speaker 2: too is an economic story. Young people, she explained, simply
Speaker 2: do not earn enough to plan for the long term,
Speaker 2: making stable relationships seem far fetched. She says, while in
Speaker 2: the past people have explained Japan's low sex and relationship
Speaker 2: culture as steaming from interest in anime and fictional characters
Speaker 2: that supplant interest in real life relationships, is actually an
Speaker 2: economic issue. I just really like that they blame the
Speaker 2: anime on this. So and the article continues. Michika uit
Speaker 2: A Balmer, a political scientist at Syracuse University in the
Speaker 2: US who studies social isolation among Japanese youth, said, many
Speaker 2: young Japanese women would like to get buried, but they
Speaker 2: simply cannot afford it. Survey data shows that young people
Speaker 2: don't have the financial stability necessarity build themselves as a
Speaker 2: viable partner. The result is that people don't get married.
Speaker 2: And because Japan has the lowest rate of children born
Speaker 2: outside of marriage among developed countries, this also means they
Speaker 2: are unlikely to have children. So in twenty thirteen, they
Speaker 2: had what was considered women nomics policies, which quote promised
Speaker 2: to integrate women into the workforce and propel them to
Speaker 2: hire paying jobs. But the policy hasn't solved women's economic problems. So,
Speaker 2: like many other nations, women were not only responsible for
Speaker 2: the house, home, and children, but they also took on
Speaker 2: the financial responsibility abortion as well.
Speaker 1: Here's another quote in the Age of Women Nomics, Japanese
Speaker 1: women are caught in a double bind. High living costs
Speaker 1: mean they are no longer expected to stop working once
Speaker 1: they have children, Yet because they still bear the brunt
Speaker 1: of domestic work. Even Japan's generous parental leap benefits, which
Speaker 1: few men choose to take, are not enough to insulate
Speaker 1: women from the pressure to drop out of the labor
Speaker 1: force after having children. Even highly educated women who leave
Speaker 1: the labor force after having children struggle to eventually reintegrate
Speaker 1: back into it. Some fear that in case of divorce
Speaker 1: they'll be unable to stay afloat financially, in part because
Speaker 1: of the stark gender pay gap.
Speaker 2: So the Japanese government has followed suit with many of
Speaker 2: the East Asian countries. Late twenty twenty three, the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister announced and estimated twenty two billion dollars to childcare
Speaker 2: spending in order to help the birth rate, and he
Speaker 2: plans to increase subsidized housing for families with children and
Speaker 2: flexible work hours. Of course, as we've seen, money may
Speaker 2: not be the answer to all the problems. But hey,
Speaker 2: I guess he's trying, I will say, and we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about this in the sec better than what
Speaker 2: the US is doing.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: And though we just used again these three countries for
Speaker 2: the examples, the steady decline of birthrate has been seen
Speaker 2: throughout the world. Taiwan has spent over three billion dollars
Speaker 2: trying to encourage people to have more children, including more
Speaker 2: parental leave and large increases in salary and in fact,
Speaker 2: one presidential candidate offered a free bet if they have
Speaker 2: a child. I'm not gonna lie. That could have worked
Speaker 2: on me too.
Speaker 1: Then you have to pay for the pet.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I don't know that he added
Speaker 2: money to that, but I was like, well, that's an
Speaker 2: interesting time.
Speaker 1: I've got to pay for the kid in the pet.
Speaker 1: And according to the Vox article titles, you can't even
Speaker 1: pay people to have more kids quote. Other countries have
Speaker 1: tried direct payments to parents. Russia began offering a one
Speaker 1: time some of about seven thousand dollars to families with
Speaker 1: more than two kids, while Italy and Greece have experimented
Speaker 1: with per child baby bonuses. In twenty nineteen, Hungary introduced
Speaker 1: a loan of about thirty thousand dollars to newlyweds if
Speaker 1: they have three children, the loan is forgiven.
Speaker 2: I actually saw something. I think it's Sweden. Y'all correct
Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong that literally are trying to bring
Speaker 2: people in with children, Oh wow, twoth and they'll they'll
Speaker 2: give you and then you have to live there for
Speaker 2: ten years and they'll give you money and incentives.
Speaker 1: I had a friend that moved to Sweden. I should
Speaker 1: to ask her, what's okay?
Speaker 2: I think Sweden. It's one of the s European countries.
Speaker 2: So y'all tell me Switzerland, Sweden?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: And yes, again, declining birthrate includes the US, so we
Speaker 2: said this earlier. The US, the birth rate of the
Speaker 2: population is declining. Here's a quote from that same Fox article,
Speaker 2: which is mentioned in the US, the birthrate has been
Speaker 2: falling since the Great Recession, dropping almost twenty three percent
Speaker 2: between twenty seven and twenty twenty two. Today, the average
Speaker 2: American woman has about one point six children, down down
Speaker 2: from three in nineteen fifty and significantly below the replacement
Speaker 2: rate of two point one children needed to sustain a
Speaker 2: stable population.
Speaker 1: And as we mentioned previously, many people have decided to
Speaker 1: wait to have children. And though the birth rate has
Speaker 1: declined overall, the birth rate for people thirty five to
Speaker 1: thirty nine has actually increased. According to Census dot Gov.
Speaker 1: In the thirty year period, it has increased by sixty
Speaker 1: seven percent. Here's a bit from cnn dot Com from
Speaker 1: the article titled fertility rates dip People are having babies
Speaker 1: later the stage of birth rates in the US. Quote.
Speaker 1: Birth rates have declined in most states across the US
Speaker 1: in recent years, while women are having babies at an
Speaker 1: older age. According to new data released by the US
Speaker 1: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and it continues, birth
Speaker 1: rates among women in their late thirties and early forties
Speaker 1: rose in the last decade, and the birth rate among
Speaker 1: women over forty five also exceeded one birth per one
Speaker 1: thousand population for the first time in more than a decade. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: the teen birth rate dropped to a record blow. In
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, there were thirteen point five burths for
Speaker 1: every one thy teens ages fifteen to nineteen, down from
Speaker 1: thirteen point nine in twenty twenty one. According to the
Speaker 1: new CDC data.
Speaker 2: Thirteen then, yeah, those numbers are so high, and I
Speaker 2: feel like they are purposeful, especially now. And though there
Speaker 2: was a small increase during the initial pandemic and lockdown,
Speaker 2: nothing shows any actual signs of the race on the
Speaker 2: on the incline. Here's a quote from the scene an article.
Speaker 2: Despite the short term plunge and comeback during the early
Speaker 2: years of the COVID pandemic, the race have been consistently
Speaker 2: trending down. Nearly three point seven million babies were born
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two. According to the CDC analysis of
Speaker 2: birth certificates, the overall fertility rate was fifty six point
Speaker 2: one births per one thousand women ages fifteen to four
Speaker 2: twenty four, holding relatively steady from the rate of fifty
Speaker 2: six point three in twenty twenty one. After a sharp
Speaker 2: drop in twenty twenty, birth rates rose in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: the first increase since twenty fourteen, but the numbers still
Speaker 2: reflect the declines that began before the pandemic. Okay, of course,
Speaker 2: unlike the other countries, US hasn't been publicly talking about
Speaker 2: the population decline or even talking about policy changes directly
Speaker 2: related to having more children, such as giving money to
Speaker 2: parents directly helping childcare costs, or the such. Although they
Speaker 2: did alter some tax deductions for children, they made higher
Speaker 2: tax deductions and gave a little more incentive, but I
Speaker 2: definitely did not seem as it was about population control
Speaker 2: or population increase. But much like how we mentioned, China
Speaker 2: has been doing more restricted when it comes to abortion
Speaker 2: access and divorce. The US has implemented the same practices,
Speaker 2: but using alternative languages for it. So during campaign runs
Speaker 2: for the Republican Party, a couple of significant figures may
Speaker 2: have said the quiet part out loud. In twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: Nebraska Republican state senator used an old racist theory to
Speaker 2: argue for the ban on abortion. According to New republic
Speaker 2: dot com quote, Senator Steve Erdman decided that the best
Speaker 2: argument in favor of the ban was quote the Great
Speaker 2: Replacement theory, which the Southern Poverty Law Center defines as
Speaker 2: quote racist conspiracy narrative that falsely asserts there's an active,
Speaker 2: ongoing and covert effort to replace white populations in current
Speaker 2: white majority countries. Our state populations have not grown except
Speaker 2: by those foreigners who've moved here or refugees who've been
Speaker 2: placed here, Erman told the chamber, and it continues. Erman
Speaker 2: also says that all of the aborted fetuses could be
Speaker 2: working and filling some of those positions that we have
Speaker 2: vacancies in response to jobs.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So before we continue, so here's a look about
Speaker 2: the Here's a quick look at the Great Replacement theory
Speaker 2: from a PREBIS article simply put the conspiracy theory says
Speaker 2: there's a plot to diminish the influence of white people.
Speaker 2: Believers say this goal is being achieved both through the
Speaker 2: immigration of non white people into societies that have largely
Speaker 2: been dominated by white people, as well as through simple demographics,
Speaker 2: with white people having lower birth rates than other populations.
Speaker 1: And how does all of that equal to combating of
Speaker 1: the declining birth rate. Here's some more from Senator Erdmann.
Speaker 1: According to Vice dot com, our state population has not
Speaker 1: grown except by those foreigners who have moved. Here are
Speaker 1: refugees who have been placed here. Why is that? It's
Speaker 1: because we've killed two hundred thousand people. These are people
Speaker 1: we've killed. Erdmann said during debate after lamenting that if
Speaker 1: abortion had been illegal, that would have resulted to more
Speaker 1: people who could be working and feeling some of those
Speaker 1: positions that we have vacancy.
Speaker 2: And he's not the only one to say these things
Speaker 2: out loud. Seapack Republican leader also made a point to
Speaker 2: use the same rhetoric. He said, if you say there's
Speaker 2: a population problem in the country, but you're killing millions
Speaker 2: of your own people through legalize the abortion every year,
Speaker 2: if that were to produce some of that problem is solved.
Speaker 2: A Schlap said, you have millions of people who can
Speaker 2: take many of these jobs. How come no one brings
Speaker 2: that up. If you're worried about this quote unquote replacement,
Speaker 2: why don't we start there, start with allowing our own
Speaker 2: people to live. And again he's not the only one.
Speaker 2: The Ohio representative says something similar as well. This narrative
Speaker 2: has been around for a very long time. As in fact,
Speaker 2: it's actually been around also targeting the Jewish community as well.
Speaker 2: But this has been a constant rhetoric. And if you
Speaker 2: want to talk about our episod so is when it
Speaker 2: comes to tradwives, our episodes, when it comes to the
Speaker 2: Red Pill, our episodes, when it comes to religious trauma.
Speaker 2: They're all linked in this same conversation with this white
Speaker 2: supremacist rhetoric that we have to bring more white people
Speaker 2: in to bring in power, that they've lost power, so
Speaker 2: therefore they need to have babies, and that abortion ban
Speaker 2: is the key. Unfortunately, these tactics have worked enough to
Speaker 2: sway what is happening within the US, but politics alone
Speaker 2: is not what is controlling this narrative. So are the corporations.
Speaker 2: The economic threat of a population's decline has become clear
Speaker 2: to many experts around the world, but not all corporations
Speaker 2: have come to this same understanding at this point. Like
Speaker 2: we said, Trip dot Com and Japan has kind of
Speaker 2: figured it out. They're like, Okay, we need to help
Speaker 2: with this. There's other companies that have been adding to that.
Speaker 2: We know some of the companies here in the US,
Speaker 2: and usually the smaller companies that'll been like, we'll give
Speaker 2: you a longer, maternitically better MATERI we have free childcare here.
Speaker 2: But not everybody Amazon Prime example, could care less.
Speaker 1: It was an accidental fun I.
Speaker 2: Didn't even know. A lot of the corporations are seeking
Speaker 2: to strip even more rights from their employees, many encouraging
Speaker 2: discrimination for those who become pregnant, and in fact, recently
Speaker 2: federal courts ruled that the Quote Pregnancy Workfairness Act was
Speaker 2: unenforceable against the state government and it's in its agency
Speaker 2: which This act protects accommodations for pregnant employees in the
Speaker 2: workplace and allows workers to sue employers for failing to
Speaker 2: do so. It prohibited employers from denying employment opportunities or
Speaker 2: forcing pregnant workers to go on leave if alternative accommodations
Speaker 2: were possible. And this is from the Texas Tribune dot org,
Speaker 2: which is where all of this was coming out from.
Speaker 2: So that is significant to know that that was on
Speaker 2: a federal appeal. And it's very scary because not only
Speaker 2: are we being told you have to be pregnant if
Speaker 2: you were to conceive, if you were to get pregnant,
Speaker 2: do you have to remain pregnant and go and give birth,
Speaker 2: but that you have no rights and they're not going
Speaker 2: to help you. We've talked there are several articles that
Speaker 2: we talked about within the great Replacement theory, and these
Speaker 2: senators who literally kept saying, oh, social Security will help,
Speaker 2: which we know is dwind linked very quickly and it
Speaker 2: is pretty much non existent for any of us who
Speaker 2: want to retire at this point. I believe the boomers
Speaker 2: are the last to be able to really get anything
Speaker 2: from the Social Security Administration. There's so much that we
Speaker 2: have to look at when we talk about this, because
Speaker 2: there it goes hand in hand when we talk about
Speaker 2: the declining of birth birth rates, and as we're again
Speaker 2: we're looking at other countries. We're looking at European countries
Speaker 2: who have a little better incentives and that kind of
Speaker 2: are willing to pay a lot more and it's costly,
Speaker 2: as men will say, to make it better. There's many
Speaker 2: who won't do that here in the US, and in fact,
Speaker 2: again they're doing the opposite by kind of leaning towards
Speaker 2: China's policies, which is really funny and ironic right now
Speaker 2: to me, with trying to force a population boom, and
Speaker 2: it's working, and it's working, and that's what's scary. But
Speaker 2: again this seems to be have your cake and eat
Speaker 2: it to situation for both the politicians and corporations. And
Speaker 2: I will say some activists in the US have talked
Speaker 2: about similar tactics to those in other countries. I know
Speaker 2: there's like the sex strike. During one point that was
Speaker 2: in talks talking about not having children, talking about not
Speaker 2: getting married, talking about remaining single, which you know, I
Speaker 2: get it. But with what is happening, and as rights
Speaker 2: continue to be stripped, it will be likely that the
Speaker 2: decline will only continue because people are fed up.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I have at least two friends who have pretty
Speaker 1: much said the shop is closed, like they're just and
Speaker 1: it breaks my heart because like, if you want to
Speaker 1: have sex, if you want to have kids. It shouldn't be,
Speaker 1: but they've been like, as long as this what is
Speaker 1: this is the situation, I'm not gonna do it, which
Speaker 1: feels very upset. It's very upsetting, but it also feels
Speaker 1: kind of funny because I don't think that's what they
Speaker 1: wanted the outcome to right of these things, but that's
Speaker 1: what I've heard from multiple people. It's like, Okay, right, cool.
Speaker 2: I will be interested to see what happens in the
Speaker 2: next couple of years, because we know that practancy is
Speaker 2: due to rape has increased, which is horrifying. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, I don't know if it's just me,
Speaker 2: but I have getting more and more disturbing pieces about
Speaker 2: children's deaths, some of them like literal. I've just watched one,
Speaker 2: I guess the crime thing where a mom was so
Speaker 2: flustered because she could not financially provide, she did not
Speaker 2: trust her for the children's father to take care of
Speaker 2: them and so gave them the best day and then
Speaker 2: unfortunately murdered them. I guess this is a side say,
Speaker 2: and that's not the only case I've seen. As of recently,
Speaker 2: I've seen more and more. I feel like this may
Speaker 2: honestly be a thing that we see because women are
Speaker 2: not seen. Again, we've talked about the fact that the
Speaker 2: abortion band is only going to kill women, but I
Speaker 2: don't think people can estimate the route of desperation that
Speaker 2: many people will have from these situations. Again, same thing
Speaker 2: with forced labor, force birth for those who have been
Speaker 2: molested and raped. Similar similar to that conversation of the
Speaker 2: desperation that you're not going to understand. I'm horrified, aby
Speaker 2: what's happening. But I don't think any of these tactics
Speaker 2: are going to push to an increase in birth the
Speaker 2: way they think it will now.
Speaker 1: I don't think so either. There's so much, like really
Speaker 1: fundamental systemic things that have to change. I believe for
Speaker 1: people to write.
Speaker 2: Again, hello, having childcare, having money to feed yourself, having
Speaker 2: money to have a bedroom for your child, those are
Speaker 2: all things that are dictating whether or not we want
Speaker 2: to have children.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, seems pretty obvious, you would.
Speaker 2: Think, But I feel like twenty twenty three South Korea
Speaker 2: really like, oh, I guess we should talk to those
Speaker 2: who can give birth what.
Speaker 1: Maybe we should ask them?
Speaker 2: Maybe we should maybe we should ask them? And then
Speaker 2: we have literally gone backwards in the US on how
Speaker 2: to handle it again again, the pretenses we're saving lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3: Well, well we have a lot of episodes about this.
Speaker 3: As you said, Samantha, it is related to a lot
Speaker 3: of other issues. This is another very intersectional thing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, Happy International Women's Day.
Speaker 1: Happy International Women's Day, Samantha.
Speaker 2: Good luck everybody of Gosh.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to spend it with you.
Speaker 2: I'm glad to be with you too, and I'm glad.
Speaker 1: For anyone who joined us on this day or any
Speaker 1: other day. If you have any thoughts about this, please
Speaker 1: let us know. You can email us at Stuffania mom
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Speaker 1: super producer Christina, are executive Bruce and Maya, and our
Speaker 1: contributor Joey, thank you and thanks to you for listening.
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