Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Fantasy Pros NFL Draft Show. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Derek Brown and with the happy Minnesota Man
Speaker 1: man himself, the man that we got to discuss. We're
Speaker 1: gonna look, We're gonna go through all the running backs today.
Speaker 1: Thorn and I are going to talk about our top
Speaker 1: ten running backs for this NFL Draft class. But we
Speaker 1: got to leave this off at the top of the news.
Speaker 1: Something that is going to impact not only the mood
Speaker 1: of Thorn Eistro on this show, but all Minnesota Vikings
Speaker 1: fans out there in the ether in general. Kirk Cousins
Speaker 1: is gone. He is going to the Atlanta Falcons. Thore
Speaker 1: your thoughts on JJ McCarthy and the Minnesota Vikings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one of the ten best days of
Speaker 2: my life. Kirk Cousins just gone. I feel like I've
Speaker 2: been chained down in purgatory and mediocrity the last six
Speaker 2: years of my life. And that cap Hit has gone,
Speaker 2: that Albatroz has gone, and the Vikings that you know
Speaker 2: we're we are now clear of that and now the
Speaker 2: roster can be remade and everything is clear and open now.
Speaker 2: And yeah, that a quarterback target, I think is what's
Speaker 2: gonna happen next in the draft. So in Minnesota now
Speaker 2: everything is wide open. The draft the next couple of
Speaker 2: months has gotten a lot more interesting. In my neck
Speaker 2: of the woods. We're gonna be talking about running backs
Speaker 2: on today's episode. The Vikings need a running back as well,
Speaker 2: so that you know that's that's interesting as well.
Speaker 1: For our purposes.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's gotten really interesting as far as
Speaker 2: the draft goes for the Vikings.
Speaker 1: Dude, it's all the things and stuff are churning right
Speaker 1: now in free agency, so you got to be heading
Speaker 1: the fantasy pros. Look at all our free agency ride ups.
Speaker 1: All of these things are going to impact the NFL Draft.
Speaker 1: We're already seeing some parts and pieces move. Like in
Speaker 1: our last few moncks we've talked about maybe the Raiders
Speaker 1: go with the tackle, not anymore. They just signed Christian
Speaker 1: Wilkins to a big money contract. So as these dominoes
Speaker 1: continue to fall, it is going to change the complexion
Speaker 1: of the NFL Draft as well as teams that are
Speaker 1: wrestling their running back needs right now with signing free agents,
Speaker 1: So are they going to go that way in the draft.
Speaker 1: But Thor, let's kick this off, baby, Yeah, all right, Thoris.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: On today's show, we talked about we're going to go
Speaker 1: through our top ten rankings. But the way that we're
Speaker 1: going to do this, man, is we're going to discuss
Speaker 1: the consensus top ten big board, give our ranks, and
Speaker 1: then we're at the end of this, we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about some of the guys we might have in
Speaker 1: our top ten or versus consensus might be in there
Speaker 1: might not be. Let's kick this off, man, RB ten
Speaker 1: Permockdraft Database dot Com. Right now is Ray Davis? Where
Speaker 1: does he fall in your ranks? I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: lower on Ray Davis.
Speaker 2: Ray Davis a guy I've seen for years and years
Speaker 2: and years. He has been around the block. We've seen
Speaker 2: him at Temple, We've seen him at Vanderbilt, We've seen
Speaker 2: him at Kentucky most recently. And he's been productive for
Speaker 2: a long time. He ran for a thousand yards at
Speaker 2: three different schools, and there's things to like about his game.
Speaker 2: You know, he's one of those like bowling ball bill
Speaker 2: guys that I typically like. He went into the combine
Speaker 2: five eight and a half two hundred and eleven pounds,
Speaker 2: ran a four five two six one two RAS decent athlete.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: The athletic profile was was only decent, but it was
Speaker 2: about what you were expecting him to come in at. UH.
Speaker 2: And it's sort of part and parcel of his game,
Speaker 2: like where he's decent sort of at a lot of things,
Speaker 2: but nothing really stands out about his game that that
Speaker 2: includes him as a runner and that includes him as
Speaker 2: a receiver. There there's no element of his game that
Speaker 2: sticks out and and and I think that's what's gonna
Speaker 2: go into the next level with Ray Davis. And that's
Speaker 2: why I'm lower on him, you know, like when when
Speaker 2: you're starting to stack him up against some of these
Speaker 2: other runners, that's why you start to put guys over
Speaker 2: him where they have the receiving utility, right like and
Speaker 2: and and then also the early down guys. Like when
Speaker 2: Ray Davis goes and you have him on an NFL roster,
Speaker 2: I think you're going to have I struggle to see
Speaker 2: when he's on an NFL roster that he's going to
Speaker 2: be the best early down guy on that NFL roster.
Speaker 2: And certainly he is never going to be the best
Speaker 2: receiving down back on that NFL roster. There's certain things
Speaker 2: to like about Ray Davis you know, I like some
Speaker 2: of the early down grinding stuff with Ray Davis's game,
Speaker 2: and and you know, just as far as the collegiate profile,
Speaker 2: I like how he fought through all the way.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, like early on his career.
Speaker 2: You know, when he was at Tempo, he's at Vanderbilt,
Speaker 2: he was in some really hard situations and he fought through.
Speaker 2: He was the belcow on those teams. Uh you know,
Speaker 2: and and he was the marked man and he fought
Speaker 2: through and whatnot, and he was the only source of
Speaker 2: offense on those teams. And then you know, and he
Speaker 2: broke through on a decent Kentucky team last year whatnot.
Speaker 2: But uh yeah, as far as the NFL utility, I
Speaker 2: just don't think you're getting a ton of value out
Speaker 2: of Ray Davis. That's why he's further down on my
Speaker 2: board down there at running back to Okay, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: running back thirteen on my board.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're not that far apart. Man, Like I
Speaker 1: am in line coming the consensus. I have Ray Davis
Speaker 1: as my RB ten. And this really comes down to
Speaker 1: this entire class. And I really think that this is
Speaker 1: a talking point basically outside of probably the top three
Speaker 1: to four guys in this class. That ranks are going
Speaker 1: to be all over the place and we're gonna see
Speaker 1: where draft capital goes. Like, Ray Davis is a guy
Speaker 1: I don't think that he goes any earlier than probably
Speaker 1: round five in the NFL draft because, like you talked
Speaker 1: about Thor like older prospect. Now we've seen that he
Speaker 1: can handle volume, we saw him mobile, that he showed
Speaker 1: out in the pass game drills, and because of Ray Davis, Like,
Speaker 1: I know what I'm getting out of Ray Davis is
Speaker 1: a guy that he can handle the volume. He can
Speaker 1: be a three down back if you need him to be.
Speaker 1: But is he going to walk into any NFL depth
Speaker 1: chart and be the clear cut best guy for early downs,
Speaker 1: the clear cut best guy for the pass game. No,
Speaker 1: But can he handle all those things?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: And the thing that I really enjoyed about Ray Davis's
Speaker 1: film is that I felt like even though he was
Speaker 1: an older prospect, I felt like I So the reason
Speaker 1: I came in higher than maybe can well, I'm in
Speaker 1: line with consensus, but higher than you, is that in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, I felt like we saw a different
Speaker 1: version of Ray Davis. And you and I had discussed
Speaker 1: this off air. It's like when you go back and
Speaker 1: you watch his film at Temple at Vandy, he looked
Speaker 1: like a different guy. This finally season at Kentucky, I
Speaker 1: thought he looked trimmor. I thought he looked His burst
Speaker 1: was a lot better. I do think that when you're
Speaker 1: looking at Ray Davis's fit for the NFL, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna want him in an outside or stretch zone scheme.
Speaker 1: And a lot of that comes back to the testing,
Speaker 1: but also just his intangibles, like the burst is not
Speaker 1: there to where you want him running stretch zone for
Speaker 1: most of most of the game, most of every week,
Speaker 1: most of his carries. Get him in a gap in
Speaker 1: power scheme and get him downhill, and you're gonna see
Speaker 1: the best version of Ray Davis as you possibly can
Speaker 1: in the NFL. So I think he's a solid back.
Speaker 1: But this also goes back to speak about just this
Speaker 1: class in general and the big giant tier breaks after
Speaker 1: the top five, top seven guys, or maybe that's a
Speaker 1: little bit different. We'll get through that later on this
Speaker 1: show man, But coming in and this is a blasphemous ranking,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna throw that out there. This is absolutely
Speaker 1: blasphemous mock draft database right now has Marshawn Lloyd as
Speaker 1: their RB nine and consensus and I, yes, sir, he
Speaker 1: is the RB nine in consensus. And I look that
Speaker 1: that that's that's some kind of crazy sauce to me.
Speaker 1: I and we'll well, I'm gonna let you lead this.
Speaker 1: Like all, I kind of quietly, well not so quietly,
Speaker 1: stew about this ranking the war. Where do you have
Speaker 1: Marshawn Lloyd in your ranks right now? What do you
Speaker 1: think about his game?
Speaker 2: Well, you say that my ranking of of Marshawn is blasphemous,
Speaker 2: like that is that ranking is blasphemous to me? I
Speaker 2: haven't seen these consensus rankings. That one is stunning to me.
Speaker 2: The industry clearly has not caught up to certainly the testing.
Speaker 2: That one indicates to me they haven't even caught up
Speaker 2: to the tape. That that is stunning to me that
Speaker 2: they still have him down at nine. That doesn't conform
Speaker 2: to reality to me at all. Marshawn Lloyd is a
Speaker 2: guy who is productive at two different schools, two different USC's,
Speaker 2: you know, going back to South Carolina and then at
Speaker 2: USC last year and then the I mean the thing
Speaker 2: is he went and proved the athleticism question as well.
Speaker 2: After he proved the receiving game thing. He is addressed
Speaker 2: both of the questions about his profile during the pre
Speaker 2: draft process. That's what we're looking for these prospects to do,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, you have the tape. That's the
Speaker 2: most important thing for any prospect. And most prospects are
Speaker 2: going to come into their pre draft process with some
Speaker 2: sort of question, so, you know, some sort of doubt
Speaker 2: about their evaluation, and you're looking for them when they
Speaker 2: go to these All Star events and then the Combine
Speaker 2: or their pro day to address those in some way.
Speaker 2: With Marshawn, he had the self awareness at the All
Speaker 2: Star event, Debro. You were the one from our team
Speaker 2: that interviewed him. He directly addressed it right away in
Speaker 2: your interview when you asked him what do you want
Speaker 2: to prove during your pre draft process?
Speaker 1: He came right at it.
Speaker 2: He was like at the schools that I was at,
Speaker 2: in those offenses, they did not utilize me as a
Speaker 2: receiver as much as I would have liked. What they
Speaker 2: did do was use him as the running back. They
Speaker 2: used him quite a bit as that the slashing type guy.
Speaker 2: We got to see that aspect of his game quite
Speaker 2: a bit, both with the game Cocks then with the Trojans,
Speaker 2: but they didn't throw them the ball as much as
Speaker 2: he would have liked. In mobile, he was very very
Speaker 2: smooth with that, both running the routes consistently, was shaking
Speaker 2: the guys in the one on one drills, was very
Speaker 2: smooth catching the ball. The hands were very good. And
Speaker 2: then he would transition from the receiver into the runner,
Speaker 2: transitioning up field very very smooth. So he proved all
Speaker 2: that different stuff, and I loved his answer to your
Speaker 2: question with regards to that. Then in he goes to
Speaker 2: Indianapolis a month later, his rad score nine to nine.
Speaker 2: And by the way, here's my public apology. I know
Speaker 2: you wanted it. He brought it up last week with.
Speaker 1: Fitz has been coming for some time. Baby. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna hang up and listen. Go ahead, Thorpe. Here here
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: So I thought I thought Marsham was gonna run mid
Speaker 2: four fives and perhaps even high four fives.
Speaker 1: That would be over for four or five three to
Speaker 1: just be clear.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, it was the one doubt I had about
Speaker 2: his evaluation. I loved his slashing. I loved his agility,
Speaker 2: and I love you and I both loved that power
Speaker 2: and anger that he runs. And I loved the answer
Speaker 2: he had to that question that you asked him about
Speaker 2: the anger and the power.
Speaker 1: That he ran with that, he said, well that's you.
Speaker 3: Know, I come from Delaware and we had to we
Speaker 3: assert ourselves. We come from Delaware, you know, and all
Speaker 3: that stuff. But he ran a four four six. The
Speaker 3: kid has a ninety third percentile athletic profile out of
Speaker 3: four four six. I mean, he blew my socks off
Speaker 3: with that, and in the thirty six vertical. I mean
Speaker 3: like he was over the ninety percentile in all that stuff.
Speaker 3: Of course, you know with the ninety third percentile overall
Speaker 3: composite that with the tape that is a top five
Speaker 3: back just objectively, you know, just the data.
Speaker 2: The tape backs that up. The industry will come around
Speaker 2: to this. Those consensus rankings are obviously behind debro. The
Speaker 2: last thing I want to say, and then I will
Speaker 2: kick it to you. I mean, and this kid is
Speaker 2: five nine two twenty. We are not talking about a small,
Speaker 2: unfortified guy. He put that athletic profile up at two twenty. Okay,
Speaker 2: he is over the side threshold. I have a comp
Speaker 2: de bro for Marshawn Lloyd that that I like, and
Speaker 2: and you're you're the the lead guy banging the drum
Speaker 2: for Marshaan, So I want to I want to try
Speaker 2: this on for size for you and see what you think. Okay,
Speaker 2: D'Angelo Williams, what do you think?
Speaker 1: What do you think? Oh, that's that's that's absolutely just that.
Speaker 1: That's pure gold. Dude.
Speaker 2: I love the load of the.
Speaker 4: Ground slasher and then you know, yeah he can he
Speaker 4: can still, he still has that power, but I love
Speaker 4: that slashing ability and you come in low and he
Speaker 4: can he can do the bowling ball thing with you.
Speaker 2: I love the dichotomy of of those two things. And
Speaker 2: I like that he showed us as well, both the
Speaker 2: juice with the receiving utility, the two sort of questions
Speaker 2: that that at least I had coming in Can he
Speaker 2: prove those things? He proved those things. He's number four
Speaker 2: for me. He might be in my.
Speaker 1: Top three by the end of this process. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to start this off with with respect on this
Speaker 1: man's name. He's my RB one in this process. I'm
Speaker 1: not backing off of a dude. I know that a
Speaker 1: lot of consensus, and we're going to talk about Jonathan
Speaker 1: Brooks and we're going to talk about Trey Benson. I
Speaker 1: am not saying that they are not talented players. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that at all. But we need to put
Speaker 1: respect on Marshall Lloyd's name for a player that over
Speaker 1: the last two years has ranked top twenty four and
Speaker 1: putting this out there for the people in yards have
Speaker 1: to contact per attempt breakaway run rate PFF, elusive rating.
Speaker 1: You match all of that with what he showed on tape.
Speaker 1: And I think that his pass pro gets better with
Speaker 1: better technique and he gets a consistency. He has high
Speaker 1: end reps of pass pro on his film. Now as
Speaker 1: the consistency there right now, no can it come and
Speaker 1: he be a trusted pass protector in the NFL. Yes,
Speaker 1: I fully believe that. I think he has a three
Speaker 1: down skill set. He has the size and the intangibles
Speaker 1: to be a three down back in the NFL. And
Speaker 1: not only that, you talked about all the passing utility
Speaker 1: and him showing out a mobile. Anybody go look up
Speaker 1: the clips in mobile at Senior Bowl. This man closed
Speaker 1: two straight practices running wheel routes or whip routes and
Speaker 1: dusting fools in his wake. To me, this is a
Speaker 1: back that can lead this class. I love his game.
Speaker 1: I love what he brings to the table. He showed
Speaker 1: all of that out in his testing. There is no
Speaker 1: part of the process thor that Marshawn Lloyd has not crushed.
Speaker 1: Do I want him to be a twenty five carry
Speaker 1: guy every single week? No? Do I think he can
Speaker 1: hold up to fifteen to eighteen carries per week. And
Speaker 1: you get him the pass game utility and get him
Speaker 1: up into that twenty to twenty two touches per week,
Speaker 1: you surely believe. I do believe that man, Marshawn Lloyd
Speaker 1: is my RB one in this class. Not backing off
Speaker 1: of it. I think the dude is a stud. I've
Speaker 1: had a third round grade on him before the NFL Combine.
Speaker 1: That grade has not changed and people are going to
Speaker 1: be surprised how high he goes in the NFL draft. Man, So,
Speaker 1: I love the kid, But just to point out his
Speaker 1: stature and how he weighed in at the next guy
Speaker 1: up in consensus ranks, here is the RB eighth Aldrich
Speaker 1: Estimate who weighed in a two twenty one went out
Speaker 1: performed in the combine well in the jumps and the
Speaker 1: broad and things like that, But he bombed the forty
Speaker 1: thor where do you have him in your ranks right now?
Speaker 1: Because I'll I'll tell you right now, dude, he's not
Speaker 1: inside of my top ten with that forty He is
Speaker 1: my RB thirteen. But where does he fall for you?
Speaker 2: He's still hanging inside my top ten barely. He's at
Speaker 2: RB nine. I So, yeah, just hanging in there. Comes
Speaker 2: into the combine five eleven and a half to twenty one.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: You mentioned that the good jumps, but yeah, five seven
Speaker 2: the ten yard split was not very good as well.
Speaker 2: He did have eight point five nine raz you know,
Speaker 2: salvage by the jumps whatever. I like. The power that
Speaker 2: he runs with that is the calling card with him.
Speaker 2: He is an early down power back. That's what he does.
Speaker 2: It's the vision. It is the tackle, breaking the patients
Speaker 2: behind the line. That's the stuff that you like. He's
Speaker 2: going to churn out those yards between the tackles.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: That's what he is going to do for you. The
Speaker 2: rest he's gonna the piston churning legs. That's the dude.
Speaker 2: He is the rest of it. He ain't gonna have
Speaker 2: for you. He categorically lacks the long speed, he lacks
Speaker 2: the burst. That's what you got. But the two things
Speaker 2: I'll say for him. In addition, he is still only
Speaker 2: twenty when he is picked, he will still only be
Speaker 2: twenty ninety four point.
Speaker 1: Two PFF grade last year.
Speaker 2: But like I said, that utility going over to the NFL,
Speaker 2: it is confined to that early down work between the tackles,
Speaker 2: the power stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and two big things that people need to understand.
Speaker 1: One the reason you brought up ten yard split because
Speaker 1: I want to illuminate this for people. Does the forty
Speaker 1: yard dash is that the end all be all of
Speaker 1: looking at running backs? So when the forty yard dash
Speaker 1: is maybe a little bit disappointing, or a guy runs
Speaker 1: in the four to six, we need to go back
Speaker 1: to the ten yard split because one of the highest
Speaker 1: correlations to tackle breaking goes back to what is your
Speaker 1: ten yard split? And that speaks a lot to players
Speaker 1: and when we're watching them on film as well as
Speaker 1: their numbers, they're burst because once you get the carry,
Speaker 1: you get the ball in your hands, what are you
Speaker 1: doing inside of that first ten yards? Are you shot
Speaker 1: out of a cannon or in the case of Addric
Speaker 1: estimatey are you more like slow molasses? Considering his ten
Speaker 1: yard split is only the fifty third percentile, So the
Speaker 1: ten yard split gives him a little bit of life,
Speaker 1: but it's not what you wanted to see in the
Speaker 1: disappointing forties, like, Okay, well, how can I talk not
Speaker 1: so much talk myself into it, but where is the
Speaker 1: sliver of hope in the straight line speed that I
Speaker 1: could still look at and say, Okay, the forty yard
Speaker 1: dash is not great, but what is his ten yard split?
Speaker 1: Estimate doesn't even offer for us hoping that And the
Speaker 1: other part that you brought up that I want to
Speaker 1: expand a little bit is he's going to have to
Speaker 1: make his money on the early downs because we didn't
Speaker 1: see any of the pass game utility coming out of
Speaker 1: Notre Dame for estimate, he wasn't used in that. So
Speaker 1: if you want to take the limited routes and reps
Speaker 1: and targets that he had in that and as far
Speaker 1: as that part of his profile, and you would expand
Speaker 1: that and say, Okay, I think he can. I really
Speaker 1: think you're just trying to paint a really rosier picture
Speaker 1: for a prospect that really is there. So I like,
Speaker 1: these are the drawbacks of the limitations. And this is
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys in this class, man, where
Speaker 1: it's like they're not stand out receivers. Some of these
Speaker 1: guys that are standout receivers, do we have questions? Like?
Speaker 1: There are very few And that's one of the reasons
Speaker 1: I'm so high on Lloyd. There are very few guys,
Speaker 1: if many at all, in this class where you could say, Okay,
Speaker 1: he has the three down skill set that we covet,
Speaker 1: he could be a sixty to sixty five percent snap
Speaker 1: back at everything works out perfectly, not only the testing,
Speaker 1: but the draft capital and all of that. Man. But
Speaker 1: moving over to RB seven per coinsensus, will Shipley coming
Speaker 1: out of Clemson. I'm gonna let you lean into this
Speaker 1: thor because Will Shipley is a guy that right now
Speaker 1: I'm mostly through his tape. I'm not enamored with him
Speaker 1: like I've got him at RB sixteen. So consensus thor,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to tell me, like, what about his
Speaker 1: game stands out? Where do you have him ranked? Right now?
Speaker 1: Manh wow, he.
Speaker 2: Is way out of my top ten. This one's stunning
Speaker 2: for me. I have him RB sixteen. I will go
Speaker 2: as far as to say this, I don't think Will
Speaker 2: was there handholding.
Speaker 1: Then we're both at ARM sixteen.
Speaker 2: Okay, Will Shipley was not the best running back on
Speaker 2: Clemson's roster. Oh last year that was fakes to start
Speaker 2: off here, baby, Yeah, you know Will Shipley, he's sort
Speaker 2: of forwarded as you know, this dual guy. You know,
Speaker 2: like he can he can catch, and he can run,
Speaker 2: and he can return kicks and all this. UF I
Speaker 2: don't think he's gonna be like the best dude at
Speaker 2: any of that stuff on his NFL roster. I think
Speaker 2: you can find a guy who's better at all that
Speaker 2: different stuff. Plus he's coming off in a catastrophic knee
Speaker 2: injury from his last game in the bowl game, which
Speaker 2: was on a kick return where he like flipped over
Speaker 2: and then he caught his knee by the sideline whatever.
Speaker 1: So everybody talking about fading Jonathan Brooks because of losing
Speaker 1: the rookie season, keep that same energy for Will Shipley,
Speaker 1: just for keeping it one hundred.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's again, it's a prospect that I wouldn't
Speaker 2: liked much anyway, right, Like, yeah, it's an uninspiring like
Speaker 2: Justin Jackson, remember him coming out of Northwest.
Speaker 1: Here, Like I actually really like Justin Jackson. He was
Speaker 1: he was a powder keg man.
Speaker 2: Like a guy like Dad that returns kicks would sort
Speaker 2: of be like that kind of phylum is sort of
Speaker 2: who I'm thinking about for Shipley. But it's just someone
Speaker 2: who's sort of decent at a merely different thing. But again,
Speaker 2: when I'm projecting these guys forward to the NFL, I
Speaker 2: want you to be the best at whether it's this
Speaker 2: thing or that thing, or preferably multiple different things. I
Speaker 2: don't see that out of Shipley. And he wasn't able
Speaker 2: to go, of course, an athletically test because of that injury.
Speaker 2: I don't think he would have tested as an elite
Speaker 2: athlete either. That's certainly not what I saw when I
Speaker 2: saw him on the field. I think he would have
Speaker 2: tested as a decent athlete, not a bum one, but
Speaker 2: definitely not the elite one that we needed to see
Speaker 2: for him to force his way onto the field and
Speaker 2: to be a difference maker. I'm surprised by that. I
Speaker 2: think that that is indicative where he is on that
Speaker 2: consensus ranking of the school he went to. His recruiting
Speaker 2: pedigree and the way he was forwarded there, but not
Speaker 2: his actual talent level.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with anything you just said. I mean,
Speaker 1: because Will Shipley, it's before I even get to the
Speaker 1: film on a lot of these guys, I always start
Speaker 1: with pulling up the metrics, and you're trying to marry
Speaker 1: the film and the metrics together and create you know,
Speaker 1: and I know you do this as well, So I'm
Speaker 1: kind of speaking for both of us here, but we
Speaker 1: try to marry both of these entities together and create
Speaker 1: the most complete picture of a prospect and a player's
Speaker 1: skill set that we can. So when I pull up
Speaker 1: the metrics, like they kind of tell the tail on
Speaker 1: some of the parts of a game of like, okay,
Speaker 1: is this guy a tackle breaker? Is he somebody that
Speaker 1: may be like ooh, I've really got to pull up
Speaker 1: the film because the numbers are screaming at me. That's
Speaker 1: not the case for Shipley. Man, He's got some rough numbers.
Speaker 1: It's not great, dude. Like you're looking at his entire
Speaker 1: collegiate career three point one yards of the contact per attempt.
Speaker 1: That's not good, man, And especially when you look at
Speaker 1: also his final season at Clemson two point nine yards
Speaker 1: of the contact per attempt as well as his breakaway
Speaker 1: run rates are not great either. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: his entire prospect profile from an analytics standpoint, is flooded
Speaker 1: with some par numbers.
Speaker 2: He's gonna be your airback. His elusive rating last year
Speaker 2: fifty one point five.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not good. And you talk about like
Speaker 1: his pass game utility tour, his yards per route run
Speaker 1: never went above one point zero six and actually was
Speaker 1: below one point zero in his final two seasons. As
Speaker 1: well as his breakaway run rates, we're at thirty four
Speaker 1: percent or lower. And just for everybody context wise, that's
Speaker 1: not good. Like that is middle to bottom end of
Speaker 1: any class that you pull up.
Speaker 2: So and he's he's horrible in pass pro now, so
Speaker 2: it's like you're trying to figure out what is he
Speaker 2: how you.
Speaker 1: Get him onto the field, What is it? What is
Speaker 1: that that gives him on the field. I don't see it, man.
Speaker 2: You know, honestly, I might have him ranked too high,
Speaker 2: you know, at running back sixteen. I actually disagree with you, Like,
Speaker 2: I mean, consensus ranking is absurd.
Speaker 1: It's it's very hard to find a part er piece. Besides,
Speaker 1: again going back to the helmet scouting where you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: he really deserves this type of ranking as well as
Speaker 1: I mean, really, what party are you you clinging to
Speaker 1: to even rank him there? It's like it's not in
Speaker 1: the analytics, it's not in the Royal counting stats. And
Speaker 1: you got injury stuff on top of this, and the
Speaker 1: pass per USUF like where where is it? Man?
Speaker 2: And and just like you know, when when you're thinking
Speaker 2: about Shipley as a prospect, it goes without saying that
Speaker 2: he's not going to be like the early down guy,
Speaker 2: So it's like you have to think about like he's
Speaker 2: going to have to make it as like the receiving
Speaker 2: back who maybe he returns kicks. So you're you're comparing
Speaker 2: him against the prospects like, uh, Dylan Lobby, Tyrone, Tracy,
Speaker 2: maybe Grendo.
Speaker 1: Uh you know different guys like that, Uh wait, Acond,
Speaker 1: even Michael Wiley, if you want to go, maybe Frank
Speaker 1: goreb you know different, maybe Schrader.
Speaker 2: You're putting him above those guys.
Speaker 1: What can't Yeah, him.
Speaker 2: Coming off an injury and and his profile on his tape,
Speaker 2: what what is is he done that is better than
Speaker 2: those guys? Like I don't know how you can do it.
Speaker 2: Some of those guys have tested like athletic freaks. They
Speaker 2: all have the Some of those guys have the statistical
Speaker 2: profile either that or they have tested like like freaks.
Speaker 1: Whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't you know. Some people are
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people. Certainly, the consensus feels
Speaker 2: like he is a lot to get drafted. I don't
Speaker 2: know about that. I would be more concerned about that.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, and I'm looking at so like when
Speaker 1: you're on mock draft database, you can kind of go
Speaker 1: into a guy's profile and see the range of where
Speaker 1: he's at. Even more recent mocks and things like that
Speaker 1: have him anywhere from like round four to round five.
Speaker 1: I still think that's incredibly generous. Like I think you're
Speaker 1: looking at a round six guy and probably more likely
Speaker 1: a UDFA. I mean, do you disagree for her?
Speaker 2: The only way he's getting in that those late rounds
Speaker 2: I think is on the name value or a personal
Speaker 2: relationship with double Sweeney Clemson alum in a.
Speaker 1: Department Like yeah, and I don't want to bag on
Speaker 1: the kid, like we want to see all these guys
Speaker 1: get drafted have successful careers. But again, when we're talking
Speaker 1: about their skills and stuff. It's like, where what's the
Speaker 1: part or piece that any NFL team is going to
Speaker 1: look at and say, you know what, that's the role
Speaker 1: that you could fill for our team. That is the
Speaker 1: special special sauce that you bring to the table and
Speaker 1: how you're going to win in the NFL. Man, and
Speaker 1: I just I really don't see it. But speaking of
Speaker 1: special sauce and a guy that is basically like the
Speaker 1: energizer bunny, he has crushed the entire process and this
Speaker 1: consensus ranking. Again, I'm not gonna be alone in saying
Speaker 1: this is blasphemous. The RB six right now, per consensus,
Speaker 1: is mister Jalen Wright running back out of Tennessee. Or
Speaker 1: I think I've effectively wound you up enough about Jalen Wright.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, I'm just gonna unleash you upon the people. Yeah.
Speaker 2: This this one is the opposite. This one is too low,
Speaker 2: too too low. Yeah, Jalen Wright is my RB two.
Speaker 2: The Yeah, the athletic profile demands that he's in the
Speaker 2: top three. He's a guy who does not have any
Speaker 2: tread on the tires. He's early on that developmental curve
Speaker 2: and he just tested like an absolute freak at five
Speaker 2: ten and a half two hundred ten pounds, nine point
Speaker 2: eight raz four point three eight forty thirty eight inch
Speaker 2: verts over eleven foot broad and last year ninety one
Speaker 2: PFF grade overall, ninety one point two PFF run grade.
Speaker 2: The pass pro grade was solid. The kid can catch,
Speaker 2: he can do all sorts of different things. Now you
Speaker 2: have to put in the you have to put in
Speaker 2: a couple standard caveats with someone coming out of the
Speaker 2: Tennessee offense. It's a Mickey mouse offense where they spread
Speaker 2: with anyone coming out of the Tennessee offense with you know,
Speaker 2: we've talked about the quarterbacks coming out of it, we
Speaker 2: talked about the receivers coming up out of it.
Speaker 1: People did not like our Jalen Wright, our Jalen Higatt
Speaker 1: takes last year. But you know I digress anyway, go
Speaker 1: ahead back to Jaalen.
Speaker 2: Right, but we were right, right, yeah, But like with
Speaker 2: the running backs, they are facing consistently thin boxes, right,
Speaker 2: and so you know, right, you know, when he was
Speaker 2: going in there, he was facing the thin boxes, and
Speaker 2: so you know he got to face those when and
Speaker 2: the lanes, you know, he got to face those, right,
Speaker 2: and so then he would get to the creases and
Speaker 2: whatnot like, and that's what he's looking for. He's a
Speaker 2: straight line burner who is looking to hit the dingers.
Speaker 2: He's he's sitting back in the batter's box. He's sitting
Speaker 2: back there on his heels. He wants to hit grand slams.
Speaker 2: You know, as a runner, you can probably think of him.
Speaker 2: It's not wrong to think of him as as a
Speaker 2: Tevin Coleman type.
Speaker 1: As a runner.
Speaker 2: He's sitting back there in the batter's box. He's looking
Speaker 2: for that crease, and like I said, he wants to
Speaker 2: run in that straight line, hit a thinger. He'll try
Speaker 2: to make one guy miss if he has to. But
Speaker 2: then he wants that straight line. He wants to start
Speaker 2: a race in angles one by one, and boy can
Speaker 2: he do it because he has world class wheels, as
Speaker 2: he showed in Indianapolis. But he also he's gotten some
Speaker 2: comps which are apocryphal. But he has drawn some comps
Speaker 2: and also they're apocryphal. But also because of the Jersey
Speaker 2: uh and also because of sort of the late breakout
Speaker 2: and the lack of tread and the rotation he was
Speaker 2: in to Elvin Kamara. But he don't see it at all.
Speaker 2: I don't see it either at all. But he also
Speaker 2: has some of that receiving utility he was in that
Speaker 2: three headed monster thing.
Speaker 1: But I don't see that either.
Speaker 2: But you do have to say he does have some
Speaker 2: of that receiving utility he was in the three Headed Monster.
Speaker 2: The he you know again, he has less tread on
Speaker 2: the tires whatnot, And the receiving utility he has more
Speaker 2: of it than he was able to show. Because of that.
Speaker 2: He is not Elvin Kamar. We have to say, you
Speaker 2: know that straight away, But he's Tevin Coleman, I think,
Speaker 2: with a bit more receiving utility than you got out
Speaker 2: of Tevin Coleman, but not Elvin Kamara. But this is
Speaker 2: a very very talented kid with not much tread on
Speaker 2: the tires. Where the developmental arrow on this kid is
Speaker 2: pointing way up.
Speaker 1: I love Jalen Right, like if if Marshawn Lloyd was
Speaker 1: not in this class, he would be my RB one
Speaker 1: in this class. We're hand holding man. The Jalen Right
Speaker 1: is my RB two of this class. I freaking love
Speaker 1: his game. He's eviscerated this entire process. We're looking at
Speaker 1: a running back that was fifth and yards of the
Speaker 1: contact per attempt, eleventh, breakaway rate thirteenth in PFF elucid rating.
Speaker 1: And we are we already talked about he can pass
Speaker 1: protect and he's an asset in the passing game. I've
Speaker 1: heard heard some really good comps on him, the one
Speaker 1: that kind of stood out to me, So I'm not
Speaker 1: going to take credit on this one. Now, I will say,
Speaker 1: as the caveat to this, I don't think that he
Speaker 1: is as well refined as a route runner to truly
Speaker 1: earn this comp because so what all we've seen so
Speaker 1: far from him at Tennessee in the passing game was
Speaker 1: utilized as a checkdown option. He wasn't in the slot,
Speaker 1: he wasn't running wheel routes, he wasn't running angle routes.
Speaker 1: If he did some of that stuff, it wasn't a
Speaker 1: ton It wasn't a staple of his game. Is he
Speaker 1: still a weapon? And can he evolve into possibly being
Speaker 1: this type of player maybe the really interesting one that
Speaker 1: I've heard thor recently because of his size and now
Speaker 1: his testing, because you and I both knew beforehand he
Speaker 1: was going to run in the four threes, and now
Speaker 1: people are coming around with this The most recent comp
Speaker 1: I've heard from him or heard about him was Jamiir Gibbs,
Speaker 1: and I don't hate it, but I will say he
Speaker 1: doesn't have the pass game chops at this point in
Speaker 1: his career that Gibbs did when he was coming out,
Speaker 1: So on it. And I'm gonna throw out my comp
Speaker 1: for him, which I know you're probably gonna hate this,
Speaker 1: because I know you were not a fan of this prospect,
Speaker 1: But stay with me here. The juice that he has,
Speaker 1: the tackle break ability and the four three speed. My
Speaker 1: com for him right now is some hybrid of maybe
Speaker 1: Jamiir Gibbs, but the guy that I think he's most
Speaker 1: closely related to is JK. Dobbins. Go ahead, I'm prepared
Speaker 1: for you to hate that. Well, you love JK.
Speaker 2: Dobbins, so I know that that's.
Speaker 1: The healthy He's talented, dude. I like talent.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, So just so people know that that's not
Speaker 2: derisive coming from Debra. That is a big compliment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big compliment. Not so much from Thorpe,
Speaker 1: but it's a big compliment for me. Man Like I
Speaker 1: like Dobbins. Unfortunately hasn't been able to stay healthy. But
Speaker 1: we cannot sit here and say that he's not explosive,
Speaker 1: he can't break tackles, and he's not an incredible early
Speaker 1: down runner. And I think, Jalen Wright, again, what kind
Speaker 1: of grade do you have on him? Because for the
Speaker 1: entirety of this process, I've had a third round grade
Speaker 1: on Jalen Wright. Are you with me on that?
Speaker 2: I would say either.
Speaker 1: Four?
Speaker 2: No, I would say, la, you're higher, Well, yeah, I
Speaker 2: would say late second.
Speaker 1: Or early third. Yeah, yeah, all right, let's go. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, like you look at the boards of people
Speaker 2: out there, you know, with Benson and right, you know,
Speaker 2: way up there, and the athletic profiles of those two guys,
Speaker 2: I think we're getting the first running back off the
Speaker 2: board in the second round, and I think, you know,
Speaker 2: the odds on favorite for that is clearly Trey Benson.
Speaker 2: So you know, I think he's going to go in
Speaker 2: the second round, and I think the second, you know,
Speaker 2: running back is I would bet that he's going to
Speaker 2: go in the second round. I think that there's a
Speaker 2: decent chance that that's right. So yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 2: a decent shot. I think that he goes late second
Speaker 2: or early third. So that's that's what I think. Two
Speaker 2: other contextual things that I'd say about right that I
Speaker 2: heard that I can put out there.
Speaker 1: He had the risk injury.
Speaker 2: At the end of the season at Tennessee, which is
Speaker 2: the reason that he couldn't go to Mobile. I heard
Speaker 2: that that was cleared at the combine. He got a
Speaker 2: total clean bale health and he was able to go
Speaker 2: through all the the you know, obviously he had a
Speaker 2: very good testing and everything like that, but he the
Speaker 2: doctors totally cleared him. I also heard that his interviews
Speaker 2: were really good. Teams. I thought he was a dog
Speaker 2: and everything like that. So the interview process went very
Speaker 2: well for him as well. So he was a big
Speaker 2: winner during the process.
Speaker 1: He's a stud man. He's him and Marshawn Lloyd, I
Speaker 1: think are two of the great and we'll get to
Speaker 1: other running backs. I know you're a trade Benson lover,
Speaker 1: like there are a small handful of running backs in
Speaker 1: this class to where I feel like if you were
Speaker 1: an INNFL franchising, you don't want to go out and
Speaker 1: you know, open up the pocket book and sign one
Speaker 1: of the guys that already has like a lot of
Speaker 1: work on his ledger and maybe not as much tread
Speaker 1: on the tire. There are guys in this class. Now,
Speaker 1: I know everybody is not loving this RB class. I'm
Speaker 1: not telling you that. You know, I'm head over heels
Speaker 1: for it. But the top end of this class still
Speaker 1: has a lot of really exciting talent and guys that
Speaker 1: can make a difference. Man.
Speaker 2: But I have a I have a jailing right calm
Speaker 2: free you that I would like to try right now.
Speaker 2: It's it's not perfect. I'm still you know, workshopping a
Speaker 2: little bit, but you gonna make no, it's not gonna
Speaker 2: make you mad. It's a blast from the past with
Speaker 2: with some local flavor here in Minnesota. It's not perfect
Speaker 2: because it only works for one aspect of his game.
Speaker 2: But I think as far as running in the athletic profile,
Speaker 2: it works. He reminds me as a runner, and again
Speaker 2: the athleticism of Michael Bennett.
Speaker 1: You remember, Oh that's a good one.
Speaker 2: He's a better receiver than Michael Bennett, which is why
Speaker 2: that doesn't work.
Speaker 1: But like just as a runner and.
Speaker 2: And the body type and an athlete and the straight
Speaker 2: line thing.
Speaker 1: The burner, that's where it works.
Speaker 2: But if you think about Michael Bennett coming out of Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: if if that guy was a better receiver, and he
Speaker 2: had to stay health right and could say healthy that
Speaker 2: would be jailing right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't hate that at all. Man. And for everybody,
Speaker 1: go go to YouTube, pull up the highlight clips of
Speaker 1: Michael Bennett. Dude could play, just couldn't stay healthy, you know,
Speaker 1: didn't have the type of career that probably his talent
Speaker 1: profile should have allowed him to have. But getting off
Speaker 1: of Bennett and look, man, I gotta tell people again
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Speaker 2: All right, Thor Debro, we might have to we might
Speaker 2: have to do a league. I've been getting d ms
Speaker 2: about Reality Sports.
Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna have to leave. We're gonna have to
Speaker 1: it out. Now, here's the thing. Should we have to
Speaker 1: co manage the league? I feel like you and I
Speaker 1: should have to co manage.
Speaker 2: I want to beat you.
Speaker 1: Oh you know, well, okay, you're gonna be sad. That's
Speaker 1: not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: No, I want to be I want to be in
Speaker 2: the league.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Well you know when I'm actually in
Speaker 1: the league, you can't call the team the Fighting Debros.
Speaker 1: We know we know how this goes. Okay, you're not
Speaker 1: going undefeated. You are going to have to sign some players.
Speaker 1: This is not gonna go how you think it's gonna go,
Speaker 1: or okay, okay, just so we're keeping it one hundred here. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's see, let's getting off of thors L's and moving
Speaker 1: over to the top running backs of this class man,
Speaker 1: the top five. And I'm gonna say this right now,
Speaker 1: this consensus is lagging. The RB five per consensus right
Speaker 1: now remains to be Bucky Irving running back at the organ.
Speaker 1: And I'm surprised by this only because like, look, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna toss this to you and let you wax
Speaker 1: poetic about Bucky Irving and the unfortunate letdown of what
Speaker 1: he did at the Combine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we need we need price check on Aisle consensus.
Speaker 2: Bucky Irving rank.
Speaker 1: Where do you have him rank before you get into
Speaker 1: his game? Because I've got him at RB eleven and
Speaker 1: I still feel like that's too high, Like I'm probably
Speaker 1: gonna bump him down a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have him at RB fourteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about right.
Speaker 2: I think I'm the people the people that are trying
Speaker 2: to salvage him after the Combine performance are are tossing
Speaker 2: out Kyron Williams, and I appreciate it. I appreciate the effort.
Speaker 2: Kyraen Williams would be the one guy. You know, we
Speaker 2: talked about that.
Speaker 1: You remember that, right, we talked about that when we
Speaker 1: were talking about we previewed the combine and we said
Speaker 1: that that was coming. Yeah, if he was if he
Speaker 1: ran slow, people were going to toss out the name
Speaker 1: of Kyrien Williams. Go back and check the receipts, people,
Speaker 1: but anyway, go ahead them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's because that's the one guy of the
Speaker 2: last eight nine years at that size that tested that way,
Speaker 2: that had success.
Speaker 1: So it's literally the only guy that you.
Speaker 2: Can point back to that had fantasy success that that
Speaker 2: tested that way. Here's the problem though, Kyrien Williams. I
Speaker 2: want you know, it's like Kyen Williams was a friend
Speaker 2: of mine. I served with Kyrien Williams and and Bucky
Speaker 2: you're you know Kyron Williams. Kyen Williams at Notre Dame
Speaker 2: was a hell of a pass blocker for for one, Uh,
Speaker 2: he did different things that that ky or that Bucky
Speaker 2: did not do. Bucky is not that fortified. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: as far as his entire skill set right, Like, yes,
Speaker 2: they're similar size and the similar athletic profile. Kyrone was
Speaker 2: in my opinion. First of all, the skill set was,
Speaker 2: like I said, more fortified, but also just like the
Speaker 2: past pro thing was the one thing where you could
Speaker 2: project with Kyron and it's like, okay, he's going to
Speaker 2: be able to stay on an NFL field because of that,
Speaker 2: along with the receiving skills. So I didn't think that
Speaker 2: Kyrone was going to be able to be an early
Speaker 2: down runner in the NFL because of the lack of
Speaker 2: athleticism and lack of size. That was the thing he
Speaker 2: was able to overcome, at least in my mind with
Speaker 2: my evil, But because of his ability to pass, block
Speaker 2: and receive, I did think he was gonna be able
Speaker 2: to hang in the NFL. Bucky. The only thing he's got,
Speaker 2: it's the receiving thing in the feet. He is a
Speaker 2: terrible pass blocker and that is going to continue to
Speaker 2: be the case. He doesn't have any functional strength. He's small,
Speaker 2: He was a terrible pass blocker at Oregon. He obviously
Speaker 2: lacks the athleticism speak to that. He measured in five
Speaker 2: nine two in Indianapolis three point seven to two. Raz
Speaker 2: ran a four five to five at that size.
Speaker 1: Pretty bad.
Speaker 2: One five to four ten yard split, twenty nine point
Speaker 2: five vertical.
Speaker 1: Boy, I think you could match that. Possibly, maybe I
Speaker 1: might be able to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nine to seven broad jump. He didn't do the
Speaker 2: three con. I'm sure we'll see that at his pro day.
Speaker 2: He's gonna have to do good in the agility drills
Speaker 2: to drum up some inner as just a really really
Speaker 2: bad workout. Now, the things that you like about his game,
Speaker 2: he is a good receiver. He is he runs good routes,
Speaker 2: he has good hands, and he's an efficient player. And
Speaker 2: I'll give this to him.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: As far as a runner, he was even an efficient
Speaker 2: runner between the tackles at Oregon and outside the tackles.
Speaker 2: He was a good runner in college. I just don't
Speaker 2: know how that translates. I don't think that that translates
Speaker 2: to the NFL level.
Speaker 1: The way he was.
Speaker 2: Able to do it at Oregon was by making people miss.
Speaker 2: He has good feet, he has really good feet. Without
Speaker 2: the athleticism, how is that going to translate, Well, we'll
Speaker 2: have to see it's it's probably gonna have to be
Speaker 2: as a receiver in the NFL level. But you know,
Speaker 2: again without the pass pro element to go with it,
Speaker 2: the kyn had with him. But like I said, at Oregon,
Speaker 2: he he can make people miss what whatnot. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that's gonna have to be in space at the NFL level.
Speaker 2: But that's what you like he brings with it a
Speaker 2: bit of contact balance. Is that going to be a
Speaker 2: quadruple a thing where you know, you know in college
Speaker 2: he could do it, but you know at the NFL
Speaker 2: level some of those arm tackles that he was able
Speaker 2: to sort of get by. At the NFL level, everyone
Speaker 2: is going to be able to take him down.
Speaker 1: We'll have to see.
Speaker 2: I like the feet, but yeah, that the lack of
Speaker 2: athleticism could be negating at that size going to the
Speaker 2: next level.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree man, And just high bo on Bucky
Speaker 1: Irving going back to his ten yard split, I think
Speaker 1: he gives you a little bit of hope or at
Speaker 1: least Bucky Irving stands because it was sixty eighth percentile.
Speaker 1: But again, when you marry this with his forty yard dash,
Speaker 1: you marry this with the inability to have the burst
Speaker 1: and the explosion, Like his vertical jump with four was
Speaker 1: fourth percentile broad jump is twenty six percentile. Like his
Speaker 1: profile when you look at it from an analytics standpoint,
Speaker 1: kind of lays out exactly who he is as especially
Speaker 1: as a runner, like did he put up good numbers
Speaker 1: in the last two years but ninth and seventeenth in
Speaker 1: yards out to contact per attempt? Yes, Now he can
Speaker 1: run on the interior. He he does have the ability to.
Speaker 1: He gets up to top speed fast. He's more quick
Speaker 1: than fast obviously, as we're talking about here. And once
Speaker 1: you get him into the second level of the defense,
Speaker 1: can he shed arm tackles?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Can he run with not power? But can he be elusive? Sure?
Speaker 1: But if you get him within the first like two
Speaker 1: to three yards of the line of scrimmage, before he
Speaker 1: gets headed steam built up, he follows like a house
Speaker 1: of cards man, And looking at the athletic testing and
Speaker 1: his analytical profile, it all comes back to this, I
Speaker 1: think personally, and I'm not one to seene here and
Speaker 1: you know, kind of toap my own comps here, but
Speaker 1: he really reminded me of this player who had a
Speaker 1: very short window of NFL legitimacy. I love the guy
Speaker 1: and I love what he was able to do in
Speaker 1: a very short extint. But the guy that Bucky Irving
Speaker 1: reminded me of was justin Forcet. So I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna see where he goes in the
Speaker 1: NFL draft. I don't think that he's gonna sniff round three,
Speaker 1: round four. I think he needs the short area stuff
Speaker 1: to even salvage like getting into round five. I would
Speaker 1: not be shocked, considering this entire process, if he falls
Speaker 1: out of the draft, but we'll we'll we'll see how
Speaker 1: that plays out. Moving over to the RB four per consensus,
Speaker 1: thoer a man that we've talked about on previous episodes
Speaker 1: and he really just unfortunately was has come into the
Speaker 1: NFL and the wrong era, and that is Braylan Allen.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on Braylon Allen and where do
Speaker 1: you have him ranked right now? I've got him as
Speaker 1: my RB seven because I think there are parts to
Speaker 1: his game that that you know, we can like. But curious,
Speaker 1: where do you sit on Braylan Allen?
Speaker 2: Braylon he is in my top ten, but barely he
Speaker 2: is my RB ten. All right, big hammer back, yeah,
Speaker 2: six sixty uh one?
Speaker 1: Thing you like?
Speaker 2: He played in two vastly different schemes in college. You know,
Speaker 2: he started out in Wisconsin's Classic I formation power run scheme.
Speaker 2: Then Wisconsin brings in Luke Fickel, and then Fickle brings
Speaker 2: in Philongo who had the shotgun spread throw it down
Speaker 2: field thing which thins out the boxes. Uh so Braylan
Speaker 2: Allen was able to run against some of those lighter
Speaker 2: boxes out of the shotgun. I like that that Braylan
Speaker 2: has lighter feet for his size, and he has some
Speaker 2: long speed. He has good speed for his size. My
Speaker 2: question with him is the vision. Uh some who is
Speaker 2: the guy years ago? Do you remember Kaylin bolage.
Speaker 1: Cale when carry he ran like he had like he
Speaker 1: was out of what was that movie bird box? Like
Speaker 1: he had the blindfold one to save his life. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I remember when Kylen Bolige came out. I I comped
Speaker 2: him to uh mister Magoo because he had all the
Speaker 2: physical attributes, but likeeez, yeah he he he looked like Adonis.
Speaker 2: But every time he would run like a million miles
Speaker 2: per hour right into the back of his guard offensive
Speaker 2: guard when there was a hole like right next to it.
Speaker 2: You know, that was like, you know the size of
Speaker 2: whatever the Grand Canyon. Braylon Allen's not that bad, but
Speaker 2: the frustration you feel sometime watching him, it's it's a
Speaker 2: kin to that because he he's so talented and he
Speaker 2: makes strading decisions behind the line like that. And you
Speaker 2: got to see a little bit more last year in
Speaker 2: the Longo system because it's more spread out in the
Speaker 2: when with the system before a couple of years before that,
Speaker 2: everything was so condensed, so uh, you know, you didn't
Speaker 2: get to see it quite as much, although you got
Speaker 2: to see the manifestations of it sometimes, but the the
Speaker 2: vision and the decision making not quite as good with that,
Speaker 2: and then the the versatility isn't there with him not
Speaker 2: great in past pro. And as a receiver, he's merely
Speaker 2: just the dump off guy, right Like you know when
Speaker 2: when the quarterback is under duress, Braylan Allen's the guy
Speaker 2: who's like standing there and then he just dumps it
Speaker 2: off because the quarterback is gonna get sacked, and then
Speaker 2: Brayleen Allen will.
Speaker 1: Get tackled right away.
Speaker 2: That's who he is like as a receiver corral and
Speaker 2: then he'll get tackled right away. That's about it. I've
Speaker 2: seen him get camped to AJ Dillon. I disagree with that.
Speaker 2: AJ Dillon, yeah, coming out of Boston College was way
Speaker 2: better than Braylan Allen coming out of Wisconsin. He was
Speaker 2: a better athlete, he ran harder. Uh. AJ Dillon had
Speaker 2: better vision, and AJ Dillon was also way more physical,
Speaker 2: which is another nitpick I have about Braylon Allen. I
Speaker 2: feel like Braylan Allen he has the size and he
Speaker 2: has the power, and he has that size speed thing
Speaker 2: where he should be able to just run people over.
Speaker 2: But in the open field sometimes I see him trying
Speaker 2: to like outmaneuver people and it's like, bro, just run
Speaker 2: him over. You know, it's the shortest path, just you know,
Speaker 2: in AJ Dillon had no errors about that.
Speaker 1: He would just.
Speaker 2: Lower the shoulder and run him over. I see Dylan
Speaker 2: as more of like a ninety version of like a
Speaker 2: James Connor coming out of Pitt is more what I
Speaker 2: see him, and that that's why I have.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Braylan Allen.
Speaker 2: I see him as like a you know, a ninety
Speaker 2: percent discount ract version of like James Connor coming out
Speaker 2: of pet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I could see that man, and I think that, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've talked about it off air, like the spots where
Speaker 1: he tries to get a little bit too cute with
Speaker 1: his footwork and instead of dropping your shoulder and the
Speaker 1: size that he is running over somebody. And just to
Speaker 1: put some respect on AJ Dillon's name, I know his
Speaker 1: NFL career has not turned out how a lot of
Speaker 1: people wanted it to, but still coming out ninety eighth
Speaker 1: percentile speed score and burst scores. If Brylan Allen had
Speaker 1: anything close in his back at the ranks, yes, thanks you.
Speaker 1: He ducked that run, he would have tested.
Speaker 2: I feel like that alls us money for the old
Speaker 2: we had on that those forty props he.
Speaker 1: Opened it, what four four nine four seven like or no,
Speaker 1: it's four four nine in the four fours and I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's no way he's gonna run this man like it.
Speaker 1: Just I think he's probably got four to six speed.
Speaker 1: I think that he does. I think he's a bit
Speaker 1: better than yours.
Speaker 2: But he is not a four fours guy.
Speaker 1: No, he that's ludicrous. Yeah. Where his props open were? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do disagree on that. And then I think Braman
Speaker 1: Allen does like fall into like as the early down
Speaker 1: component of a committee in the NFL. I think that
Speaker 1: with a guy his size. I think you wanted to
Speaker 1: gate some of the happy feat and the dancing that
Speaker 1: he does, which really just get him downhill, put him
Speaker 1: in a gap, power him, get him downhill like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and really could he take his game to another
Speaker 1: level if he were to make some of these changes possibly?
Speaker 1: Is that still going to help him in today's NFL
Speaker 1: where the pass game utility is not going to be there.
Speaker 1: He's not going to be a weapon in the past game.
Speaker 1: So can he actualize a three down skill set or
Speaker 1: at least a three down roll? No, I don't see
Speaker 1: that happening. So, Braman Allen, I'm sorry. Like, if you
Speaker 1: would have come into the NFL in the nineties, yeah,
Speaker 1: some team would have fallen in love with you. You probably
Speaker 1: have gone round two around one of the NFL draft.
Speaker 1: Everybody be talking about how you can handle three hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty carries a year and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: But it's just the wrong iteration of the NFL. We're
Speaker 1: not in that era. Yeah, he missed the era, like
Speaker 1: and it is what it is. Man. So I think
Speaker 1: the kid has skills, but to type cast him into
Speaker 1: fitting into today's NFL, I think it's a little bit
Speaker 1: tougher man. But moving over to the RB three per consensus,
Speaker 1: Blake Koram. He had the testing, which I mean, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say his testing was great, but I
Speaker 1: don't think he totally bombed the NFL combine testing. He
Speaker 1: has the box score measureables, all the counting sets that
Speaker 1: you want, and he's coming out of the big school.
Speaker 1: Or where does he follow in your ranks? Because I
Speaker 1: want to say we're handholding here, like I've got him
Speaker 1: at RB six, Where do you have him at same?
Speaker 2: I also have him RB six. Blake Coreham measured in
Speaker 2: five foot seven and six eight, so just under five
Speaker 2: foot eight, two hundred and five pounds with the raz
Speaker 2: of eight five ran a four to five to three,
Speaker 2: but with very good agility scores, which is not surprising
Speaker 2: when you watch him. He's one of those guys who
Speaker 2: hides behind the line of scrimmage, and then he's the
Speaker 2: bowling ball guy with the darting agility, so that's sort
Speaker 2: of his game. And then he runs with decent power
Speaker 2: as well, so he's gonna run through the arm tackles
Speaker 2: and he makes it difficult for you to square him up,
Speaker 2: so you know, he can force the off angle attempts
Speaker 2: and the arm angle attempts and you know, and again
Speaker 2: he hides behind that the offensive linem until the last second.
Speaker 2: Stuff like that. That's the stuff he does good. As
Speaker 2: a receiver, he's just the guy. You know, he's the
Speaker 2: outlet guy. He's not gonna run you know, dynamic routes
Speaker 2: anything like that. He does have reliable hands, but he's
Speaker 2: just you know, sort of the the tertiary dump off
Speaker 2: guy when you need that whatever. Last season, he was
Speaker 2: coming off the injury late twenty twenty two, had the
Speaker 2: slow start to the season. He had a We talked
Speaker 2: about this deebre offline very wonky statistical profile last year.
Speaker 1: Bybe because I'm gonna say it was bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm gonna call it wonky. He had, he
Speaker 2: had the slow start coming off the injury, and then
Speaker 2: he had the dominant run blocking offensive one of the
Speaker 2: more dominant run blocking offensive lines you'll see Michigan had.
Speaker 2: I think I'm citing this off of memory, it was
Speaker 2: either seven or eight offensive lineman that Jim Nagy had
Speaker 2: on the preseason so over the summer the senior ball
Speaker 2: watch list, so not the five guys in the starting lineup.
Speaker 2: They had either two or three backups. They were also
Speaker 2: on the Senior Bowl watch list whatever. And that Michigan
Speaker 2: offensive line was built to be a run blocking, mauling
Speaker 2: unit and they were so, you know, and when people
Speaker 2: talk about that that offense, the way it was constituted,
Speaker 2: it was run on first down, run on second down,
Speaker 2: and then when they threw they put McCarthy. It was
Speaker 2: usually on third and long, you know, And that's what
Speaker 2: what McCarthy was really good at.
Speaker 1: Whatever.
Speaker 2: But Blake Korum's stats, if you look at it, he
Speaker 2: would get like four yards before contact, which is not
Speaker 2: his fault. It's just Michigan's offensive line reset the line
Speaker 2: of scrimmage four yards forward every single time. And then
Speaker 2: you know that then that's where the sort of the
Speaker 2: play started.
Speaker 1: Whatever. Blake krm.
Speaker 2: You love the agility, like I said, you you like
Speaker 2: that that he can do that hide bind the line
Speaker 2: of scrimmage, and then you like that he can make
Speaker 2: a guy miss. I like his vision. I like his
Speaker 2: feel a little bit limited in terms of the versatility.
Speaker 2: Uh you know, I I don't know how much you're
Speaker 2: gonna get of him as a receiver. I think you're
Speaker 2: always gonna have someone on the roster who's better than him.
Speaker 1: As far as the.
Speaker 2: Passing down stuff, I do think he is going to
Speaker 2: be his team's early down type guy. I've seen a
Speaker 2: lot of the connections between him and Harbaugh with the Chargers.
Speaker 1: I think that would be cool.
Speaker 2: Uh you know, I do think that, you know, he's
Speaker 2: going to be the starter for his team as the
Speaker 2: early down guy. But yeah, for me, he's RB six.
Speaker 2: There are some limitations there. I comp them that Devin
Speaker 2: Motor Singletary, a running back who I very much like
Speaker 2: coming out of FAU. I got him RB six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we're we're kind of now. I went
Speaker 1: a little bit higher him with the comp. I like
Speaker 1: the Devin Singletary comp. I think the the Rolls Royce
Speaker 1: version of that player is Frank Orr and that's who
Speaker 1: have my com for Blake Korum and looking at his
Speaker 1: skill set. The big thing that scares me about Korum,
Speaker 1: and I know that everybody's gonna talk about, Okay, he
Speaker 1: was dinged up in all A twenty twenty three, So
Speaker 1: toss that out the window. You could toss it out
Speaker 1: of all the window all you want to, but it
Speaker 1: still happened and saying that he was dinged up and
Speaker 1: saying that he was coming back from the knee injury.
Speaker 1: Here's the other side of that optimistic coin. What if
Speaker 1: he doesn't get that burst back. What if he doesn't
Speaker 1: get that second gearback? Because if you watch Blake Koram
Speaker 1: tape from twenty twenty one versus twenty twenty two and
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, he's a different back he didn't have. Now,
Speaker 1: are is the footwork still there? Yes? Is the vision
Speaker 1: still there? Yes? Is the creativity at the second level
Speaker 1: still there? All things yes? In twenty twenty three, the
Speaker 1: problem is is that he is not a top shelf athlete.
Speaker 1: He is not a guy that could run a four
Speaker 1: to three, four to four. So you lop off the
Speaker 1: top part of that juice and what comes or what
Speaker 1: was something that? Okay, it's above average Now he's matt
Speaker 1: average to mediocre. In looking at what his burst looks
Speaker 1: like and his tackle breaking ability, he legitimately in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three four was just a guy that got what
Speaker 1: was blocked and that was it. And that's not me
Speaker 1: being unkind to what happened to him. But in the
Speaker 1: fifteen games he played in twenty twenty three, dude, in
Speaker 1: nine of those games he failed to force two or
Speaker 1: more mistackles two not a ton two on fifteen twenty carries,
Speaker 1: all these types of workloads, and he didn't even surpass
Speaker 1: even on a per touch basis in nine of those
Speaker 1: fifteen games two point four yards of to contact per attempt,
Speaker 1: which is in a terrible rate, an abysmal rate if
Speaker 1: you look at twenty twenty three, and this trend started
Speaker 1: even before twenty twenty three. So if you want to
Speaker 1: even toss out the knee injury and say, okay, well
Speaker 1: we'll give him a mulligan for twenty twenty three twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two, out of all running backs with at least
Speaker 1: one hundred carries, fiftieth in yards of the contact per attempt,
Speaker 1: breakaway run rate again fiftieth, pff elucidrating fortieth. His tackle
Speaker 1: breaking metrics have dropped in each of the last three
Speaker 1: seasons at Michigan. You cannot just ignore that, explain it
Speaker 1: away and pretend like it doesn't happen. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: the kid is a bum. He has skills and he
Speaker 1: has talent. But comparing this version of Blake Koram to
Speaker 1: the version of twenty twenty one Blake Korum. Who if
Speaker 1: if that was the version we were getting, and I
Speaker 1: knew it one hundred and fifty percent knew that we
Speaker 1: were getting in the NFL, the twenty twenty one version
Speaker 1: of Blake Korum, he'd be a top four back in
Speaker 1: this classroom me like top three, Like I would love
Speaker 1: Blake Korm. I would have him ranked aggressively. I would
Speaker 1: love him. But that's not the case, man. So just
Speaker 1: talking about him being real about where he's at in
Speaker 1: his career, how his career in college transpired, and what
Speaker 1: those numbers look like. I'm gonna be blow consent. I mean,
Speaker 1: you and me are handholding, but I think versus consensus,
Speaker 1: we are obviously lower than consensus on Blake koram Man.
Speaker 1: But enough talk about Michigan Wolverines on this We spend
Speaker 1: too much time every week on Michigan Wolverines. JJ and Korum.
Speaker 1: Love to the RB two of this class. A man
Speaker 1: who comes in here still recovering from a massive knee injury,
Speaker 1: Jonathan Brooks out of Texas, and he's in the top three,
Speaker 1: top four running backs of this class. Some people have
Speaker 1: him as their RB one in this class. I'm not
Speaker 1: pushing back against that. What are your thoughts about mister Brooks.
Speaker 2: I have him RB three, okay, Yeah, it's too bad
Speaker 2: that he's say them RB three as well. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: too bad. He had the ACL tear in November. We'll
Speaker 2: see when he comes back from that. But it, you know,
Speaker 2: not only do you have the injury which which could
Speaker 2: delay you know, him coming, it deprives him the pre
Speaker 2: draft process could delay you know him coming into camp
Speaker 2: as well. He was stuck behind Bijon and Roshan obviously
Speaker 2: at Texas. That also delayed you know, our ability to
Speaker 2: see him period. He really only had you know, nine
Speaker 2: or ten games to break out this past season, and
Speaker 2: break out he did. He was very impressive in those games,
Speaker 2: but then he tears the ACL. He's a very interesting
Speaker 2: prospect in that there's not a ton of standout traits
Speaker 2: except for things that that are hard to measure. He's
Speaker 2: six foot tall, two hundred and sixteen pounds, so he's
Speaker 2: right around the size threshold average athlete. We're not gonna
Speaker 2: get confirmation of that, but that would be my supposition.
Speaker 2: You know, I think he'd probably be around average speed.
Speaker 2: The one thing that I think he'd probably be above
Speaker 2: average in is the agility. Yeah, where I think we
Speaker 2: would also agree. The thing he's very, very very good
Speaker 2: at is contact balance. That's not something that we could
Speaker 2: measure for in the in the testing. Love his feet,
Speaker 2: which is another thing that they don't they don't test for.
Speaker 2: He's a patient and slippery back.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Again, speed his average, like the burst through the hole
Speaker 2: that he runs with, and that plays up because of
Speaker 2: his vision. You know, it's like he makes the decision
Speaker 2: and and he's always making the right one. Then he
Speaker 2: gets through really quick, so he's able to capitalize on
Speaker 2: that immediately. Not a dynamic receiver in terms of the
Speaker 2: route running, but he's very reliable. He knows what he's
Speaker 2: doing and the hands are very good. He doesn't drop
Speaker 2: the ball, so it's like he's above average and a
Speaker 2: lot of different things. But the feel, the feat, the
Speaker 2: contact balance, the different.
Speaker 1: Stuff like that are are are good.
Speaker 2: So it plays up those different things, the burst, the vision,
Speaker 2: different stuff like that. It's too bad about the injury.
Speaker 2: Different stuff like that gets him down to three on
Speaker 2: my board with the stud athletes being one and two.
Speaker 1: It might make him a a little bit of a.
Speaker 2: Value we'll end up seeing where he goes once we
Speaker 2: get to April. But yeah, he's he comes into the
Speaker 2: process number three on my board.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got him at RB three as well. And
Speaker 1: just looking at his film again, we're not gonna get
Speaker 1: because of the injury and stuff. We're not getting any
Speaker 1: confirmation of you know, any athletic testing and things like that.
Speaker 1: You'd like to see that. You know, he was a
Speaker 1: workhorse back last year at Texas, handed at least twenty
Speaker 1: carries in six of his ten full games. And he's
Speaker 1: got the size to hold up under that volume. Now
Speaker 1: I know, you know, we can talk about, Okay, well
Speaker 1: he got hurt under that volume, but it's it's football.
Speaker 1: Injuries happen, so I'm not going to ding him on that.
Speaker 1: So he showed that he can hold up under the
Speaker 1: volume in terms of the efficiency because he was twenty
Speaker 1: first and yards oft contact for attempt ninth and elusive rating.
Speaker 1: And I really like Brooks in the sense that it
Speaker 1: all comes back to the contact balance man, And does
Speaker 1: he have any one standout trait where you're like, home, man,
Speaker 1: look at this guy. Go No, I think that he's smooth.
Speaker 1: I think that looking at his footwork. Again, going back
Speaker 1: to what you were talking about, I think the footwork
Speaker 1: and he doesn't jump out when you're watching his film
Speaker 1: as having these explosive plays, or he looks like he's
Speaker 1: shot out of a can, and he's just he's smooth
Speaker 1: throughout the entirety of his runs, and that comes down
Speaker 1: as a reflection of his footwork, which I think is very,
Speaker 1: very good, because you'll see him sometimes where he's navigating
Speaker 1: the hole and whether it's it's a stretch zone run
Speaker 1: or he's trying to bounce something outside because the the
Speaker 1: interior was clogged, he could teleport two feet to the
Speaker 1: left like that. That's nothing like did you see that
Speaker 1: in his film throughout the entirety of it, where all
Speaker 1: of a sudden he's he's scanning, he's scanning, and then poof,
Speaker 1: he's all of a sudden towards the boundary and he's
Speaker 1: up in his upfield and speaking to the contact balance.
Speaker 1: I saw numerous runs on his film where the first
Speaker 1: guy gets him, he's still not going down, like the
Speaker 1: leg dry for him really stands out. There were two
Speaker 1: or three runs all the top of my head where
Speaker 1: I was like, first guy hits him and off balance,
Speaker 1: he's still churning forward and he kicks up another five
Speaker 1: to ten yards or after the first contact and the
Speaker 1: first guy could hit him pretty well, and he's still
Speaker 1: motoring ahead. And you always hear the term for these
Speaker 1: running backs a guy that falls forward consistently, and that's
Speaker 1: what Brooks does. But giving context to that, that goes
Speaker 1: back to contact balance for guys and finishing runs and
Speaker 1: leg drive. So can he hold up? Can he be
Speaker 1: a volume runner if he comes back fully healthy and
Speaker 1: some of those traits still cross over to the NFL?
Speaker 1: I do believe that that happens, man, But it really
Speaker 1: comes down to, like where a team comes down on
Speaker 1: his medicals and if he were to test and said
Speaker 1: the testing went extremely well for him, could he have
Speaker 1: been a second round running back? Possibly? I think he
Speaker 1: probably settles into the third round unless there's a team
Speaker 1: that really loves him, like maybe the Cowboys, who have
Speaker 1: been extremely close to that entire situation with one of
Speaker 1: their own personal surgeons doing his surgery. So maybe that happens,
Speaker 1: and maybe that's dal Dallas, you know, answers the running
Speaker 1: back position in a committee to start out the year
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty four. But Brooks is a guy that
Speaker 1: does like considering what he did as a starter at
Speaker 1: Texas does deserve some of the hype that he still
Speaker 1: will garner. But onto the RB one of this class
Speaker 1: per consensus, and I know, I believe he's your RB
Speaker 1: one of this class, or Trey Benson. I know you
Speaker 1: love him. How much do you love him?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I like him quite a bit. Being RB one,
Speaker 2: Trey Benson goes to the combine and that's where he
Speaker 2: locked it in. For me, he went there as my
Speaker 2: RB one, but that's where he solidified it with the
Speaker 2: nine to seven seven Ras ran the four to three
Speaker 2: to nine at six foot, two hundred and sixteen pounds.
Speaker 2: Last year a little bit of a down season after
Speaker 2: the true breakout in twenty twenty two. Twenty twenty two
Speaker 2: is when he broke the PFF charting record for force
Speaker 2: missed tackles. That's when he really proved it and the
Speaker 2: dual threat game. He can catch the ball too. Last
Speaker 2: year there was some wonkey offensive usage, both with the
Speaker 2: rotating the running backs Jordan Travis also cutting into the
Speaker 2: running as well. They were trying to pass the ball
Speaker 2: more as well. You know, Kean Coleman had gone there.
Speaker 2: They also had Johnny Wilson, whatnot. I'm gonna forgive Trey
Speaker 2: Benson a little bit for that. Certainly is a freak athlete.
Speaker 2: He's proven that he came back from the devastating knee
Speaker 2: injury that he had a couple of years ago at Oregon.
Speaker 2: He had done that in twenty twenty two. But obviously
Speaker 2: he is the premiere size speed running back in this class.
Speaker 2: You love that when he gets into the when he
Speaker 2: breaches the second level, watch out that that's when he
Speaker 2: becomes truly dangerous and he can break the tackles like
Speaker 2: we saw in twenty twenty two. So you love that
Speaker 2: he has the one cut ability, the ability to evade
Speaker 2: runs through those arm tackles. Love that different stuff. I
Speaker 2: love the ability to catch the ball. He's a smooth receiver.
Speaker 2: He has improved in that era that facet since coming
Speaker 2: over from Oregon. Different stuff like that. You can line
Speaker 2: him up outside as well for a screen. Florida State
Speaker 2: likes to do that, sustable of what Norveld does. You
Speaker 2: know recall for instance, going back to Memphis Antonio Gibson.
Speaker 2: You know they like to do that with the running backs.
Speaker 2: Different the age back, different stuff like that, motion them
Speaker 2: out and then you throw the ball and then you
Speaker 2: have the blockers out there. He saw different stuff like
Speaker 2: that with Benson. Then you get him out in space
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden he's trucking up field.
Speaker 2: Different stuff like that. So I think we're gonna see
Speaker 2: Tray Benson. You're gonna see that he is a better
Speaker 2: pro than he was in college. I think you've only seen,
Speaker 2: forgive the metaphor, but the tip of the spear with
Speaker 2: Tray Benson. I think he will be the first running
Speaker 2: back that has taken in April, and I think he's
Speaker 2: going to have a very promising pro career.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then we both came down on the same
Speaker 1: player comp and I'm going to give you the hat
Speaker 1: tip of this because you came to me with this
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that fits man. But Ryan Matthews,
Speaker 1: looking at testing, looking at his game, you're higher on
Speaker 1: Benson than I am. And it's not by a ton
Speaker 1: I like Benson, but he is my RB four of
Speaker 1: this class. But the things about his game that I like,
Speaker 1: you like the speed, you like the home run ability,
Speaker 1: the knocks on his game, at least turning on the
Speaker 1: film for me was like, he can get himself into
Speaker 1: trouble behind the line of scrimmage when he's forced to
Speaker 1: string multiple moves together and avoid defenders. That's the questions
Speaker 1: where I had about like his ten yard split. Now
Speaker 1: he answered some of that with the testing, but again,
Speaker 1: when you have defenders coming at you, one of them dings,
Speaker 1: you can you get back to top speed. I look
Speaker 1: at Benson as more of a really big runway back
Speaker 1: in the sense that he has the speed to hit
Speaker 1: home runs. But the areas that I worry a little
Speaker 1: bit is what kind of offensive line does he get
Speaker 1: put behind? And with how I see his game. The
Speaker 1: other part about it is I don't think he's a
Speaker 1: very creative runner. Now, when you get him into the
Speaker 1: second level and you have the cutback opportunities, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of times where he'll barrel forward pick up a
Speaker 1: few extra yards instead of trying to either bounce something
Speaker 1: outside cut back against the grain. And some of that
Speaker 1: just might he might know the limitations of his game,
Speaker 1: who knows, But I don't see those were you're expecting. Okay,
Speaker 1: he's got four to three speed and he can flip
Speaker 1: the field and you're gonna see him just absolutely, just
Speaker 1: like the creative stuff, like when Kenneth Walker came out,
Speaker 1: Breese Hall came out, and we're looking at these guys
Speaker 1: that had that type of speed and they're creating a
Speaker 1: ton of yards for themselves against the grain and making
Speaker 1: these big explosive plays. Can Benson hit the home runs? Yes,
Speaker 1: but I do question some of those things with him.
Speaker 1: But I know you're kind of chomping the big go ahead,
Speaker 1: go ahead, and I could see your face. I know
Speaker 1: you're gonna push back on this. Go ahead.
Speaker 2: No, I have a new comp for all.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2: I'd like to see your reaction to this one. Oh, dear,
Speaker 2: my Ray Benson comp is DeMarco Murray. Oh.
Speaker 1: I like that. I do like that both are upright runners.
Speaker 1: I like I see it, man, I see it. Well,
Speaker 1: you're looking at the size, you're looking at the intangibles.
Speaker 1: I see it, man. And that also kind of comes
Speaker 1: down to like you're talking about, I don't think he's
Speaker 1: a he's a special player in the passing game. Murray
Speaker 1: wasn't either. But how they could translate to the NFL
Speaker 1: being volume backs and stuff like that, I could see it, man,
Speaker 1: But that is the top ten consensus running backs. Now,
Speaker 1: there are a few guys on our board that Thorn
Speaker 1: and I are gonna run through real quick that did
Speaker 1: not make the top ten. The one offs here. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start this off with my RBA to the class
Speaker 1: Isaac Grendo, and Grendo's a guy that did not get
Speaker 1: a ton of volume, did not get a ton of
Speaker 1: playing time in college. Now, if you look at hit
Speaker 1: the testing, he's automatically on everybody's board because of the
Speaker 1: testing and what he did at the combine running the
Speaker 1: four to three. But and you're gonna hear Isaiah Isaiah
Speaker 1: pa Checko, You're gonna you hear that in the same
Speaker 1: sentence with Grindo, I'm gonna throw this out right now.
Speaker 1: He is not Pachecko. He doesn't run like Pachecko. He's
Speaker 1: not Pachecko. But the good parts of Grindo's game he's
Speaker 1: an upright runner. He's a linear runner, tighter hips than
Speaker 1: maybe you won or you'd expect. But I think the
Speaker 1: good parts of his game is for a player that
Speaker 1: did not get a lot of volume, did not get
Speaker 1: a lot of playing time. I'm gonna specifically point to
Speaker 1: the last few games of his final season at Louisville,
Speaker 1: he started to play with more confidence. So when the
Speaker 1: gap is plugged and he's gonna say, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: barrel for try to get the extra yard or too.
Speaker 1: You saw towards the end and people go pull up
Speaker 1: the film from the USC game. He ran with more
Speaker 1: confidence down the stretch and you saw a player that
Speaker 1: maybe we could see a second level to his game
Speaker 1: in the NFL that we didn't see in college because
Speaker 1: he didn't get to play a lot. And the numbers
Speaker 1: on paper in his final season are pretty impressive thor
Speaker 1: like fourteenth yards of contact for attempt eighteenth and breakaway
Speaker 1: rate tenth in yards per route run. I don't think
Speaker 1: that he's a wondrous, you know, weapon in the passing game,
Speaker 1: but can he be a checkdown option? Does he have
Speaker 1: soft hands? Yes, absolutely, but I think his hips being
Speaker 1: a little bit tight is gonna limit what you could
Speaker 1: do with him in the passing game. So probably just
Speaker 1: a checkdown option. But looking at his game, man like,
Speaker 1: I like him, and I think that the testing that
Speaker 1: he put up at the combine, I believe that that
Speaker 1: speed is real, and I think that what we saw
Speaker 1: out of him in the final few games of his
Speaker 1: collegiate career. If he was a guy that got had
Speaker 1: had the starters run in multiple years, maybe we'd be
Speaker 1: talking about a different player. But your thoughts on Grendo before,
Speaker 1: I know, you want to bring up Dylan Lobby here next?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I had Grenda twelve and obviously opened
Speaker 2: eyes with the testing, so yeah, he's got to be
Speaker 2: up there after that, Dylan Lobby. I had eight. The
Speaker 2: pass game utility I think demands it being up there,
Speaker 2: the fabulous receiver that opened our eyes and mobile opened
Speaker 2: our eyes with the tape and then a nine to
Speaker 2: two rats. So he proved the concept and one of
Speaker 2: the few guys that did the agility drills. A lot
Speaker 2: of people were ducking the agility drills at the combine
Speaker 2: because in Indianapolis they put those at the very end,
Speaker 2: so a lot of guys were gas and they didn't
Speaker 2: do it, but Lobby did, so he did the full
Speaker 2: gamut of it and still put up that the really
Speaker 2: good testing profile. So I had him eight. Was one
Speaker 2: guy we didn't hit on, Ija Davis. I had seven.
Speaker 2: I think he was my my Oh no, actually he wasn't.
Speaker 2: There's one other guy I gotta get to, but Ija
Speaker 2: Davis one of my small school guys that I really
Speaker 2: really like. I come Ija Davis to Tyler l Jeer.
Speaker 2: I think someone's going to get a big value on
Speaker 2: Ija Davis. Is Ja Davis six foot, two hundred and
Speaker 2: eighteen pounds. He's a big, humvy back. Yeah, there's there's
Speaker 2: not a ton of nuance to him, Like you know,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna get the receiving who cares pair him
Speaker 2: with Hell Parham, with Dylan Lobby or you know I
Speaker 2: can pare him with any sort of receiving back you got. I.
Speaker 2: J Davis is gonna be your meat and potatoes guy. Uh.
Speaker 2: He is the power Like he's an upright Tyler Algier.
Speaker 2: He's an upright running power back. He does some slalom
Speaker 2: type stuff. Put him in his zone type thing whatever
Speaker 2: whatever you like.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: The thing I love about his tape is like the
Speaker 2: FCS defenders when they touch him, it was like touching
Speaker 2: an electric fence, like someone was just like you know,
Speaker 2: they just peel off them right, like you just get zapped.
Speaker 2: So I really and he was just fabulous for this
Speaker 2: undefeated colossus of a South Dakota State team. Uh so
Speaker 2: he he is super undervalue just because he's coming from
Speaker 2: the FCS and a super nice kid. We talked to
Speaker 2: him down a mobile. The other guy that I had
Speaker 2: on my top ten that was not in the consensus
Speaker 2: criminal is comani Vidal.
Speaker 1: And we're handholding. We're handholding. He's he's he's both of
Speaker 1: our RB fives in this class.
Speaker 2: He keeps getting slept on. This kid dominated and he
Speaker 2: was in the FBS. Yeah, down at Troy, five foot
Speaker 2: five foot eight, just an eyelash, under five seven and
Speaker 2: seven eights, two hundred and thirteen pounds, but dominated at Troy,
Speaker 2: and he handled the workload over the past four years,
Speaker 2: enormous workload. But then he was awesome in mobile. But
Speaker 2: the surprising thing is now he went to Indianapolis and
Speaker 2: he tested awesome as well. Was eighty eight percentile athleticism
Speaker 2: four four six. He also did the full gamut of testing,
Speaker 2: and people are still sleeping on him.
Speaker 1: I don't really get it.
Speaker 2: I have him as RB five. I loved kamani Vidal.
Speaker 2: I comp them to Jalen Warren. I might like, that's
Speaker 2: what I see when I watch his tape, you know.
Speaker 2: And I brought this up to him when I was
Speaker 2: I was talking to him and one of the similarities
Speaker 2: there you have that both the body type and then
Speaker 2: they both finished number two in the FBS in force
Speaker 2: miss tackles there last season in the FBS that Warren
Speaker 2: when he was coming out of Oklahoma State and then
Speaker 2: Vidal coming out of Troy. They're testing though, might force
Speaker 2: me to change that because Warren, the reason he went
Speaker 2: undrafted was he tested poorly coming out. Vdal has now
Speaker 2: tested very well, which is the reason that now Vidal
Speaker 2: is probably going to get drafted. But yeah, I really
Speaker 2: like Vandal. Vidala is my RB five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we're handholding. He's my RB five as well.
Speaker 1: The testing really of mys for a guy that I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to amend my comp on him. I comped
Speaker 1: him to Devin Singletary. I didn't give him enough respect
Speaker 1: as far as the straight line speed because of you know,
Speaker 1: we kind of we eyeball this based off of what
Speaker 1: we see on film and stuff, and some of these
Speaker 1: guys like Vidal, we didn't have access to, you know,
Speaker 1: miles per hour and things like that, so you're really
Speaker 1: going off of what your eyes tell you. And for Vidal,
Speaker 1: I was like maybe high four fives. Now going out
Speaker 1: there and run a four to four. I've got to change,
Speaker 1: you know, the flavor of the coffee and stuff for him.
Speaker 1: But again putting respect on his name, twenty first and
Speaker 1: pff elucid rating last year three point five two yards
Speaker 1: of the contact per attempt in the entirety of his
Speaker 1: kally your career. Very good number. And you know to
Speaker 1: your point, he's got the jews to run it outside
Speaker 1: when needed. But I think that his his stuff is
Speaker 1: he needs to get downhill. He pinballs off guys in
Speaker 1: the second level, and he's a volume rusher. He proved
Speaker 1: that he can be a volume rusher. He had at
Speaker 1: least twenty three carries and fifty seven percent of his
Speaker 1: final collision season games. So can he hold up considering
Speaker 1: the size and did he put up the numbers where
Speaker 1: we wanted to see it? Absolutely? Man, So I like
Speaker 1: Vadal coming out of the process again, thorn I's RB
Speaker 1: five of this class. If you're looking at all these
Speaker 1: running backs listening to this episode and you're running mock
Speaker 1: drafts on the mock Draft simulator for rookie drafts right
Speaker 1: now on fantasypros dot Com Slash Simulator. Get those reps in, baby,
Speaker 1: you're gonna need them for rookie draft season. It is
Speaker 1: quickly approaching, Thorn and I gonna be back next week
Speaker 1: to dive further into this NFL draft class. So tune in,
Speaker 1: then we'll see it. Then we're out here. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to the Fantasy Pros Dynasty Football podcast. If you
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