Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.
Speaker 1: One ever told you a prediction of iHeartRadio?
Speaker 2: And today I thought it would be fun to bring
Speaker 2: back the episode we did on persuasion because we just
Speaker 2: did Pride and Prejudice and I've loved some of you
Speaker 2: have already written in about that.
Speaker 1: Really Jane Austen's work.
Speaker 2: Well, it was cool because a lot of people wrote
Speaker 2: in with like, I don't know if you've heard about
Speaker 2: this person who does this, So this person who does
Speaker 2: this with it, so that's really cool. But in that
Speaker 2: episode we mentioned some history with Jane Austen that I
Speaker 2: know we went into a little bit more in depth
Speaker 2: in this episode. But you know, I also thought it
Speaker 2: would just be fun to go kind of back to
Speaker 2: back with these, so please enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to steffan never told you production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3: And we are continuing with our classics theme month of September.
Speaker 3: I feel like that goes with fall and Pumpkin Spies
Speaker 3: if you like it, ask curiosity. Have you read other
Speaker 3: Jane Austen books?
Speaker 1: I don't know if I actually this is my first
Speaker 1: Jane Austen book. I a Jane Austen movie.
Speaker 3: I had just popped your bubble.
Speaker 1: That was really gross. Sorry.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, we're talking about Jane Austen. And because this
Speaker 3: is probably my favorite book of Jane Austen. As much
Speaker 3: as I love Pride and Prejudice and I love all
Speaker 3: the others, Persuasion is I think my favorite of her books.
Speaker 3: It's probably one of the smaller ones of her books.
Speaker 3: I can't quite remember. It's not that long overread, but
Speaker 3: I love everything about it. There are a lot to
Speaker 3: be said. We know this is very old fashioned, talk
Speaker 3: about the themes as if we were from the early
Speaker 3: eighteen hundreds, late seventeen hundreds. Maybe I don't know, but yes,
Speaker 3: it was something. Jane Austen is one of my favorites.
Speaker 3: I love her wit, I love her sarcasm. Everything still
Speaker 3: seems so nice and gentle. And then you read back
Speaker 3: and you're like, oh, she just insulted that person. That's amazing.
Speaker 3: That's the level. That is my personality in itself. And
Speaker 3: there's all two people who deserve it. That's even better.
Speaker 3: Like her characters stand up to people, stand up to society.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about all of this now again. Yes,
Speaker 3: we've talked a little b about Jane Austen before and
Speaker 3: the works. I still really want to do this Jane
Speaker 3: Austen tour that we had talked about previously with our
Speaker 3: guest who came on and that's what she does. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, why am I not there?
Speaker 3: Like touring bath. I need to see this. But I
Speaker 3: guess as we can't do that, we'll just take a
Speaker 3: tour with the book, right, We'll just go with our
Speaker 3: imagination of what this may be.
Speaker 1: Anyone who has a hookup, you know, calling here, I
Speaker 1: need to be.
Speaker 3: There though, that's what that's the same here. But yeah,
Speaker 3: So we wanted to do a quick run through of
Speaker 3: Jane Austin's biographical history. It seems, according to many of
Speaker 3: the different articles about her life, that she, like others,
Speaker 3: used her life experiences in her novels. Her stories are
Speaker 3: often told in wit and sarcasm, and was a statement
Speaker 3: of the unfair rules and standards placed on women. And
Speaker 3: though her novels typically end with happy endings, with her
Speaker 3: heroines getting married to well situated men for love, and
Speaker 3: her own life was not so perfectly put together, Jane
Speaker 3: Austin never married. She did get engaged once but ended
Speaker 3: it because she was not in love with the man.
Speaker 3: And then there was another man, many who called him
Speaker 3: her first love, who was ushered away from her essentially
Speaker 3: like take it away, because they were like, this is
Speaker 3: not going to work out. She has no money. You
Speaker 3: need money. So he married full wealth and they never
Speaker 3: see each other again. If you've ever seen the movie
Speaker 3: Being Jane Austin, they actually do a little bit of
Speaker 3: the back and forth. It's actually a really good movie.
Speaker 3: I liked it. But yeah, so it's really sad overall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, geez, It's not like she wasn't prolific and successful, but.
Speaker 3: It took a little while. They didn't know her name
Speaker 3: till after she died.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to talk about that, right, yes, Okay.
Speaker 2: So though Jane's work was published in her lifetime, her
Speaker 2: work was not as appreciated then as it is now.
Speaker 2: She was successful after her brother, taking on the title
Speaker 2: of her literary agent, sent her novel sent in Sensibility,
Speaker 2: to be published in eighteen thirteen, and later she would
Speaker 2: go on to publish Pride and Prejudice, which was also
Speaker 2: a success. And yeah, all the while her names were
Speaker 2: not attached to the publishing of these stories, but instead
Speaker 2: it was authored as a lady. It wasn't until after
Speaker 2: her death that she was recognized for her work. Her
Speaker 2: brother Henry and sister Cassandra pushed for her last two novels,
Speaker 2: North Ainger Abbey and Persuasion, to be published after her death.
Speaker 2: I do think this is interesting because we have talked
Speaker 2: about this in the writing of romance novels and the
Speaker 2: writing of horror and science fiction with women in these
Speaker 2: early days, about publishing not with their name but still
Speaker 2: getting these followings. And one of my very fun, favorite
Speaker 2: fun facts about Jane Austen is she had the first
Speaker 2: one of the first fan fiction groups called the Austinites,
Speaker 2: yes well they.
Speaker 3: Were apparently was the jay Knights as well, I believe
Speaker 3: was the name for some of our fans, and it was.
Speaker 3: She actually did have a following during her times of writing.
Speaker 3: People loved her book initially, though her father, before he died,
Speaker 3: tried to get one of her books published and he
Speaker 3: couldn't do it. It's not Gnomes supposedly that she whether or
Speaker 3: not she knew that her father tried to do this
Speaker 3: for her because he loved her book. There was another
Speaker 3: publisher who held onto a book I believe called Susan,
Speaker 3: and since then he would not publish it. He just
Speaker 3: left it on his desk. She sent him a letter
Speaker 3: like you needed to give it back or publish this
Speaker 3: or something, and she initialed it as mad because she
Speaker 3: was very angry with me, and like this whole thing
Speaker 3: went back and forth that he would publish it, but
Speaker 3: she would have to pay ten pounds. They did not
Speaker 3: have it because they were not well off. After the
Speaker 3: father died, they moved around everywhere trying to find a place.
Speaker 3: Finally settled into her brother's cottage near her land and
Speaker 3: was able to do that. And apparently her writing, most
Speaker 3: like everybody else, went with her moods. So she wasn't
Speaker 3: in a good place, she couldn't write, And when she
Speaker 3: got into a good place she wrote and it was beautiful,
Speaker 3: So it was pretty interesting. Of course, we're not talking
Speaker 3: too much more about the characters of the book. Many
Speaker 3: people do reflect. They do look at her family and
Speaker 3: their silliness and their hot hypochondria, like all of these
Speaker 3: things that we see in each one of her books.
Speaker 3: So you will see a character that is silly as
Speaker 3: she would say, and ridiculous and not so smart, or
Speaker 3: you would see one that was always sick and needy
Speaker 3: and someone needed to take care of her. And a
Speaker 3: lot of these were apparently based on her mom from
Speaker 3: what I gather, but we don't know this to the
Speaker 3: point that apparently when the mom read Mansfield Park, she
Speaker 3: really felt that the mother character was cruelly treated, and
Speaker 3: then that the character, the heroine, was just ridiculously and
Speaker 3: insipid what she said. So a lot of those things.
Speaker 3: But they did love her writing enough to give her
Speaker 3: time to do it and realize that she was successful
Speaker 3: at it and was able to get some money from it.
Speaker 3: Now when they weren't successful, they had to pay it back,
Speaker 3: which was a whole different conversation in itself. So there's
Speaker 3: a lot of things that went on. She has some
Speaker 3: unfinished novels that people have tried to complete, including the
Speaker 3: author I believe of Bridgerton. She tried to complete it,
Speaker 3: but have yet to be seen as successes. I've not
Speaker 3: seen anything that's come off. It's like this is it.
Speaker 3: Austin died at the young age of forty one, before
Speaker 3: being recognized against for her accomplishments and a lot of
Speaker 3: who she was or what we could have learned, is
Speaker 3: lost to us because letters were burned and her reputation
Speaker 3: was glossed over by her family. Literally, Henry was trying
Speaker 3: to make her look like the most unpeachable, amazing woman
Speaker 3: in the world. Pictures of her apparently were altered so
Speaker 3: that she would be the perfect beauty. All of these
Speaker 3: things in order to sell the books or sell her
Speaker 3: reputation with the books. But of course we do know
Speaker 3: that she was actually really upbeat individual who had a
Speaker 3: great personality, and she would advise others to not fall
Speaker 3: to the outdated standards of marriage by seeking love and wit,
Speaker 3: which aparently she told us to a niece. She did
Speaker 3: not seem to regret saying no to the dude who
Speaker 3: had a lot of money. She would have been wealthy.
Speaker 3: They would have been taken care of. But yet, you know,
Speaker 3: which is what we see in her works today, except
Speaker 3: with happier endings, obviously obviously. So, now that you know
Speaker 3: a little bit about Jane Austen, let's dig into persuasions.
Speaker 3: Are you ready?
Speaker 1: Oh yes, are you ready?
Speaker 3: All right? So this was written and originally titled The Elliotts,
Speaker 3: and it was later edited and renamed as Persuasion. The novel,
Speaker 3: as we mentioned before, was one of Austin's last, and
Speaker 3: many argue is one of her more sophisticated works, like
Speaker 3: she finally figured had her style, she had these mature
Speaker 3: words again opinions of others, and though many argue that
Speaker 3: her unfinished works could have been just as iconic, if
Speaker 3: not more. In a statement and commentary on society at
Speaker 3: the time, apparently she was writing a book about snake
Speaker 3: oil dealers, essentially about people trying to bring people in
Speaker 3: based on this water healing that was happening at the time.
Speaker 3: So could have been an amazing book. And I think
Speaker 3: people really really wish that they had been finished. Of course,
Speaker 3: not her fault, and that's why people are trying to
Speaker 3: finish it.
Speaker 1: That makes me sad, all right.
Speaker 2: But in this book we are introduced to the Elliots,
Speaker 2: a family who has come upon some hard times, partially
Speaker 2: due to the main character's father, Sir Wallace Elliott, who
Speaker 2: is a vain and stubborn man that clings to titles
Speaker 2: and status more than anything else. But before we get there,
Speaker 2: we are quickly informed that Anne, a sweet pleasing young
Speaker 2: woman who is the main character, I would say had
Speaker 2: fallen in love at a young age with a man
Speaker 2: named Frederick Wentworth who would soon set sail.
Speaker 1: As a naval man.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the navy in this one. But this
Speaker 2: match was opposed by her family as Frederick had no
Speaker 2: money or status at the time, and again that was
Speaker 2: really important back then, but especially to her.
Speaker 1: Father, and Anne was persuaded.
Speaker 2: By her closest friend, inventor Lady Russell, and her family
Speaker 2: to turn down the proposal, which would haunt her for
Speaker 2: years to come.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Years later, we see Anne alone and having to
Speaker 3: take care of her remaining family after the death of
Speaker 3: our sweet mother. With the debt and financial issues plaguing
Speaker 3: the family, her father is persuaded to let the house
Speaker 3: or rent it out Kellynch Hall, while he and his
Speaker 3: seemingly favorite child Elizabeth, decide to move to Beth because
Speaker 3: you know, it's cheaper and of course it would be
Speaker 3: they would be of upstanding citizenship and so higher class
Speaker 3: in a small town like Bath, and though she doesn't
Speaker 3: want to and also prepares to go to Bath with
Speaker 3: the family until she's asked to remain near her home
Speaker 3: with her youngest sister Mary A hypochondriac married to Charles
Speaker 3: Musgraves and their children for a little while, and we
Speaker 3: find out later that Charles Musgroves originally asked Anne to
Speaker 3: marry him. Right, that doesn't happen and he marries Mary instead.
Speaker 3: So here we meet Charles and his family, his father, mother,
Speaker 3: and two sisters, Henriette and Louise, who are very fond
Speaker 3: of Anne and oftentimes wishes Anne had married Charles. Yes,
Speaker 3: Anne becomes the sounding board between all of them, of
Speaker 3: the mini complaints and Elma's and all of the such
Speaker 3: so unfortunately she has to be the nice one that
Speaker 3: is the middle ground for people to come to and
Speaker 3: try to be rational. Soon after we meet the Crofts,
Speaker 3: who have least kellynch Hall, Admiral Croft and his wife Sophia.
Speaker 3: Sophia happens to be oh, the sister of Frederick Wentworth.
Speaker 3: Oh No, which opens up the novel to the upcoming
Speaker 3: high jinks that we're about to talk about.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, all right, So soon enters Wentworth, who is
Speaker 2: now Captain Wentworth, rich and accomplished and apparently still very handsome.
Speaker 3: Still very handsome, you gotta remember that, yes, and.
Speaker 2: Is also obviously still hurt at being rejected by Anne,
Speaker 2: and even comments on how Anne has quote been.
Speaker 1: So altered since he last saw her.
Speaker 2: Oh and now being twenty seven, Anne is seen as
Speaker 2: sort of a spinster. Oh no, the worst twenty seven,
Speaker 2: Oh no. And he seems to be interested in both
Speaker 2: of the young Musgrove ladies, and they are very interested
Speaker 2: in him too, even at the expense of Charles Hayter,
Speaker 2: who is trying to court Henrietta at the time. And
Speaker 2: as she and the Musgroves and Crofts all go on
Speaker 2: a lovely trip to Lyme Regis, we see Wentworth seemingly pursue.
Speaker 1: These young women even more.
Speaker 2: Here we meet captains Harville and Benwick, who are friends
Speaker 2: of Captain Wentworth. Benwick was at this point mourning the
Speaker 2: death of his fiance and seemed to be getting close
Speaker 2: to Anne, as they had a common love of writing
Speaker 2: and poetry. But soon, of course, more drama occurs, at
Speaker 2: which time Louisa falls while jumping from a seawall, causing
Speaker 2: her to get a concussion and causing her to she
Speaker 2: needs to be under constant surveillance, which happens to be
Speaker 2: Yes the care under the watchful eye of Captain Wentworth
Speaker 2: and the Harville's family who lived there. So she has
Speaker 2: this injury and he's like, well, I've got to look
Speaker 2: out for her. Then I got to make sure she covers.
Speaker 3: He feels very guilty because obviously he didn't stop her.
Speaker 3: And Ann soon returns to be with her father and
Speaker 3: sister in Beth after that incident, and there she meets
Speaker 3: with William Elliott, who is she had actually had contact
Speaker 3: with at the at Lime. So we see this moment
Speaker 3: and apparently at that at the beach, she looked really beautiful.
Speaker 3: Of course, I guess it affected her. Now she's more
Speaker 3: beautiful than ever. I do think it's quite funny because
Speaker 3: we'll talk about this in a bit, but the fact
Speaker 3: that she they keep commenting on how some people get
Speaker 3: more attractive when when as they get older, but it's rare, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I like that, this is what's happening to our dear Anne.
Speaker 3: And yeah. So she meets with William Elliott, a cousin
Speaker 3: and the heir to the fortune of their family, who
Speaker 3: once was supposed to marry Elizabeth. I think it was
Speaker 3: intended that way, but rejected both her and the family
Speaker 3: to marry another rich woman, which did not go over
Speaker 3: well with Sir Elliott, obviously, because that was completely slighting
Speaker 3: of his favorite daughter. All of those things, and that
Speaker 3: wife dies and so now he is a rich widower
Speaker 3: coming background. But he soon changed their minds with his
Speaker 3: charm and attention, and even Lady Russell, who was hopeful
Speaker 3: that he would marry Anne, saw that he was in
Speaker 3: good standing and was approving of him. But however, Anne
Speaker 3: was suspicious of him. It was too much. But while
Speaker 3: in Bath and was able to reconnect with our friend
Speaker 3: Missus Smith, who was a widow and was ill at
Speaker 3: the time and unfortunately very poor because things had gone
Speaker 3: wrong with her husband's fortune. There she and Missus Smith
Speaker 3: are able to reconnect and talk about the gossip around Bath.
Speaker 2: Yes, and soon all the Musgroves and Crofts decided to
Speaker 2: come to Bath as well.
Speaker 1: Oh, dear.
Speaker 2: Anne has learned that Louisa is now engaged to Captain
Speaker 2: Benwick and that Henrietta was now engaged to Charles Hayter,
Speaker 2: and all seemed happy and well with them. And then
Speaker 2: of course Anne runs into Captain Wentworth and has an
Speaker 2: interesting They have an interesting exchange together. However, at the
Speaker 2: same time, mister Elliott, which by the way, this was
Speaker 2: very like game of prones to me where I'm like,
Speaker 2: I need a chart to cheap track of who is who?
Speaker 1: Okay, Elliott's going around.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, said Sir Elliott.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes not her father, her cousin was
Speaker 2: trying to wiggle his way into her affections, causing Wentworth
Speaker 2: to be both jealous and deterred. And it was soon
Speaker 2: after that Anne discovered from her friend, Missus Smith, how
Speaker 2: deceptive and uncaring mister Elliott really was, so her suspicions
Speaker 2: were correct, and she resolved to let Lady Russell know
Speaker 2: of his character. But before she could, she and Wentworth
Speaker 2: were able to reconnect and soon became engaged. Mister Elliott leaves,
Speaker 2: taking Missus Clay, a woman who was trying to seduce
Speaker 2: her way into the Elliott family. Was a friend of Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: By the way, Yes, and Anne and Captain Wentworth get married.
Speaker 2: Lady Russell admits her mistake and accepts the couple as
Speaker 2: new friends.
Speaker 3: Yes, and all of this to say also, Miss Smith
Speaker 3: had connections with mister Elliott, who was not great, and
Speaker 3: she was trying to get someone to help her get
Speaker 3: her fortunes because there was a little bit of money
Speaker 3: out there and Captain Wentworth helped her and she was
Speaker 3: able to live and everybody was happy. Everybody was happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeay. Although I kind of that whole Missus Clay thing.
Speaker 1: I was kind of like Damn Okay.
Speaker 3: Who has two children, who was the daughter of the
Speaker 3: lawyer that helped get all these things in place. There's
Speaker 3: so many characters we left out. I'm sorry, but you
Speaker 3: should go and read the book. It's short. If you
Speaker 3: like these things, go for it. I will say I
Speaker 3: tried to watch the new movie with Dakota Johnson. I
Speaker 3: could not get through it because I know what they
Speaker 3: were trying to do, but it was not working for
Speaker 3: me as a lover of this classic in the way
Speaker 3: it is formed to have Dakota Johnson portray Anne Elliott
Speaker 3: as a bumbling, clumsy woman who brags about herself and
Speaker 3: is just bitter, which is her whole thing is like
Speaker 3: to be better. At the very beginning, she talks about
Speaker 3: losing him, being a little angry about what was happening,
Speaker 3: and then all she does is drink, sit in the corner,
Speaker 3: lay face on the bed, like she takes baths by
Speaker 3: herself like. This is how it introduces an I'm like.
Speaker 3: Throughout the entire book, Jane austen portrays Anne as someone
Speaker 3: who understands why and there's no way she could have
Speaker 3: married him at that point and be where she was
Speaker 3: today as happy and being glad that it worked out
Speaker 3: this way no matter what. And then her whole character again,
Speaker 3: she's a little too pristine, too smart, but like it's
Speaker 3: to be unseen in the corner, and trying not to
Speaker 3: bring any ripples about being a little heartbroken that he
Speaker 3: seems to have I'm not forgiven her and is trying
Speaker 3: to move on with these other women type of things.
Speaker 3: In the movie, at the very beginning of the scene
Speaker 3: where I talked about how Charles Musgroves says was supposed
Speaker 3: to had originally proposed to Anne. In the book, the
Speaker 3: sisters revealed to Captain Wentworth that he had originally proposed
Speaker 3: and they had wished that she had gotten married to him.
Speaker 3: In the movie, Anne blurts it out at the dinner
Speaker 3: table in front of everyone, to everybody's chocolate. She proposed
Speaker 3: to me first, and everybody was like, what, so that
Speaker 3: is that? And I was like, absolutely not, absolutely not.
Speaker 3: I can't do this. I can't do this. So for
Speaker 3: those of you who may have seen the movie and
Speaker 3: they actually liked it.
Speaker 2: There's a grimace on Samantha's face, but she's trying to
Speaker 2: power through.
Speaker 3: I'm just like, let me know what I missed out,
Speaker 3: maybe to rectify and come back to it, because after
Speaker 3: that scene, I was like, no, I can't do this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's fair. It's fair.
Speaker 2: I mean you've said before, you've got your your versions
Speaker 2: that you like Harry passionate about this.
Speaker 3: When you alter it so greatly, it's just becomes This
Speaker 3: entire movie is supposed to be a lot of cringe
Speaker 3: moments like oh oh, like she makes fun of him
Speaker 3: and he walks in to hear her make fun of
Speaker 3: her him. That does not happen. There's a moment where
Speaker 3: again she screams like she's supposed to be across the way.
Speaker 3: She screams his name because he's talking to a girl
Speaker 3: the girls, and she's jealous, and then she hides away
Speaker 3: underneath it because she yells his name and everybody's like,
Speaker 3: what like all of these things it's supposed to be
Speaker 3: like the cringe worthy level, and I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 3: don't even like that. Yeah, when I do, like a
Speaker 3: movie so maybe, And the take is like I think
Speaker 3: it's supposed to be a modern take back then because
Speaker 3: they rank people about you're a ten here, but they're
Speaker 3: that type of thing. So I think that's what they
Speaker 3: were trying to do with it, to make this new
Speaker 3: type of thing. But I'm like that works. I feel
Speaker 3: like more so with like Clueless or ten things that
Speaker 3: I hate about you, where they flip it to be
Speaker 3: like taking the old tail into a modern take. Sure,
Speaker 3: but try to do a modern take to in the
Speaker 3: old tail in that timeline doesn't feel like it works.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's difficult to pull off for sure.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 3: I say that as I still kind of like Night's
Speaker 3: Till and that's a whole different movie and they do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh again, it can be done, Yeah, just not
Speaker 2: easily done.
Speaker 3: It's not easily done. It's okay now that I've printed
Speaker 3: about that themes, all right, So of course one of
Speaker 3: the big themes is women in society and their role
Speaker 3: in society at that point and time, because all throughout
Speaker 3: Austin's books you will see that as the main plot
Speaker 3: of all of them is trying to find a good marriage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think this is one of the things that.
Speaker 2: Can be easily forgotten, but at this time it was
Speaker 2: a huge deal for like, that was your purpose, especially
Speaker 2: in this where they were located. And the timing of
Speaker 2: this was as a woman, you have to have a
Speaker 2: pretty upstanding, polite society reputation and then you will be
Speaker 2: married off and what is hopefully a financially good decision
Speaker 2: for the woman and the family.
Speaker 1: And it was, I mean, it was a huge it
Speaker 1: was very important.
Speaker 2: You couldn't known anything like I mean with what happened
Speaker 2: to Jane austen Or she died poor, even though she'd
Speaker 2: written all this stuff that is so successful now, but
Speaker 2: she didn't get married, and so it was seen as
Speaker 2: a failure. And I think that that can sometimes get lost.
Speaker 2: And I did enjoy that the importance of it was
Speaker 2: still there, but it was like underlaid with all of
Speaker 2: the slayers of gossip, kind of like pettiness and a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff about class, which is pretty common for
Speaker 2: these kinds of books as well. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the whole thing is like her sister's trying to
Speaker 2: get married. Her other sister did get married. She's got
Speaker 2: to get married because their father went into debt, like
Speaker 2: it's all of the stuff about well, I got to
Speaker 2: do this for the family and for money essentially.
Speaker 3: Right, so essentially, And I don't know, because I don't
Speaker 3: know customarily how correct we are. I'm assuming it is
Speaker 3: because it was her time frame. But I think with
Speaker 3: Emma they had this conversation about being a spencer with money,
Speaker 3: you're able to do that more so than being a
Speaker 3: spencer not without money, that you e will literally die essentially,
Speaker 3: and that the idea that if it's taken away. So
Speaker 3: we see that often, and we saw that in many
Speaker 3: of the books Pride and Prejudice. If there's no male heir,
Speaker 3: it goes to the next male heir, which could be
Speaker 3: a cousin or someone who will turn you out. There
Speaker 3: is a book, I can't remember which one where they
Speaker 3: actually do turn out the family where they're like, uh,
Speaker 3: the I think it was like an uncle or a
Speaker 3: cousin who inherits it and he had promised to help them,
Speaker 3: but he doesn't. He chooses not to, and so they
Speaker 3: go to the situation. Yeah, this is that conversation. And
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm talking about her as fine nour.
Speaker 3: For Austin, it was so important that she fall for
Speaker 3: love that she was willing to sacrifice all of that
Speaker 3: to be there, And it doesn't sound like anybody held
Speaker 3: her responsible and or were bitter towards her because of that.
Speaker 3: Like her only sister, Cassandra, she had five brothers. Again,
Speaker 3: she did get help from one of the brothers and
Speaker 3: apparently they lost their money in a scheme, not a scheme,
Speaker 3: but a thing that they invested in with another brother.
Speaker 3: There's a whole different level of things that were happening here,
Speaker 3: but it is it's like she stuck to her guns
Speaker 3: in her books as well, but she saw the happier
Speaker 3: ending and was hoping for the happier ending, which is
Speaker 3: kind of the tragic bit that that happened that she
Speaker 3: didn't get to any of that. And of course, yeah,
Speaker 3: money was a huge thing, which I don't understand how
Speaker 3: money worked at that point in time. Was nobody like
Speaker 3: nobody seems to do things, but they all have money,
Speaker 3: Like I'm very confused by that in itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that's where a lot of the
Speaker 2: like class comes in of kind of inherited money or
Speaker 2: marrying into money or both. But it's also important to
Speaker 2: remember at this time, you know, love might have been
Speaker 2: a thing in marriages, but often it was an economic right.
Speaker 2: Originally it was much more of like a financial decision
Speaker 2: than anything to do with love.
Speaker 3: Which makes sense even today to me, not to that extent,
Speaker 3: but I'm like, you know what, maybe they're not far off.
Speaker 3: Maybe that shouldn't be a bad thing, because emotions change,
Speaker 3: all emotions change. But I also found it funny that
Speaker 3: she when she wrote the lines for her father about
Speaker 3: how titles are not earned, accomplishments are not earned, but
Speaker 3: you're born with it, and how could these traditions change.
Speaker 3: I feel like we hear that today in different forms
Speaker 3: of like essentially privileged of like oh well I got this,
Speaker 3: you got this from your daddy, stop it. And how
Speaker 3: you think that's class. That's not, that's not class, stop it.
Speaker 3: But that that was pretty funny, and I think she did,
Speaker 3: of course, she wrote that on purpose to talk about
Speaker 3: this absurdity about the ideal of class and rank, and
Speaker 3: it was a beautiful. Her writing is so good.
Speaker 1: It's just so good.
Speaker 3: Of course, when we talk about all that with marriage
Speaker 3: and responsibility, we talk about families, whether it's the good,
Speaker 3: the bad, and unfortunately just what it is, the undeniable
Speaker 3: they are here, that's what they are. I feel like
Speaker 3: again her painting of her mother, possibly in the characters
Speaker 3: of Brian Prejudice, she does this with the ridiculous mother.
Speaker 3: In the character of her sister Mary, she does this
Speaker 3: of this ridiculous woman who was just obviously privileged and
Speaker 3: over the top spoiled and really just self absorbed character
Speaker 3: and what that looks like, and how she portrays them
Speaker 3: in the book. Of course we know they're not all
Speaker 3: that one dimensional, but she does that as a comic
Speaker 3: relief but also probably a stress relief.
Speaker 4: I'm guessing yeah, yeah, And I think it's one of
Speaker 4: those things where I imagine most of us can relate
Speaker 4: to this, even though it was written so long ago.
Speaker 2: That you have the family member who's always kind of
Speaker 2: like needing you to help them.
Speaker 1: For whatever reason.
Speaker 2: You've got the you feel responsible for, like perhaps somebody
Speaker 2: older in your life and their financial security, and you've
Speaker 2: got the like one you're always being compared to. Perhaps,
Speaker 2: Like there's just a bunch of family relationships that I
Speaker 2: think a lot of us can relate to are kind
Speaker 2: of are like, oh, I have something sort of like
Speaker 2: that in my life.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not even family it can be friends as well,
Speaker 1: but like.
Speaker 2: And the whole idea of her I feel like when
Speaker 2: you compare and to the rest of her family, it
Speaker 2: does and this might be Austin kind of again, yeah,
Speaker 2: having that stress relief. It does feel like they all
Speaker 2: were using her for something, whether it's her dad, like financially,
Speaker 2: her younger sister to be like the person she can
Speaker 2: complain to you about everything, her older sister to compare
Speaker 2: like I'm better than you, all those kinds of things,
Speaker 2: and kind of trying to be the diplomat.
Speaker 1: And then you've.
Speaker 2: Got this mister Elliott cousin fellow at the ends just
Speaker 2: kind of using them and what seems a very callous
Speaker 2: way to just secure the inheritance. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: there's like those are kind of the negative aspects. There
Speaker 2: were certainly some positive interactions between all of them that
Speaker 2: were fun to see, but it is that that tension
Speaker 2: and family and how we treat each other and use
Speaker 2: each other was very apparent.
Speaker 3: I do think it's funny that she is kind of
Speaker 3: one of those like, ugh, this family, what can you do?
Speaker 3: Like time of situation, and she has a amongst a
Speaker 3: lot of the books that she does. I also do
Speaker 3: appreciate and I thought it was really hilarious the way
Speaker 3: they talk about the dead brother of the Musgroves. They
Speaker 3: just literally like, thank God he's dead, like he really
Speaker 3: was useless outside of just dying. I mean, he's a
Speaker 3: good thing he died, but we're gonna pretend like we
Speaker 3: really mourn him, miss him. But I was just like, wow, Jay,
Speaker 3: And I'm not sure who in your life, but to
Speaker 3: be fair, and this is I've read an interesting bit
Speaker 3: about the fact that she did have another brother who
Speaker 3: was institutionalized and then after at thirteen years old, after
Speaker 3: he was pretty much given away, they never talked about
Speaker 3: him again, they never reached out to him. And she
Speaker 3: did that too. She was a part of that, not caring,
Speaker 3: not noticing he died at seventy one, No one went
Speaker 3: to his funeral, no one cared like it was pretty sad.
Speaker 3: So I'm wondering if that was how she felt, which
Speaker 3: is awful, which is awful, awful, awful and meaning care
Speaker 3: like caroless, it does kind of put a stain on
Speaker 3: who she is and like and I get it in
Speaker 3: that sense of like during that time and age, that's
Speaker 3: what you did, still really callous and cold. But I
Speaker 3: wondered if that was kind of that mentioning. Again, I
Speaker 3: could have been reading way too much into this, and
Speaker 3: I have a feeling awesome. Fans may come after me
Speaker 3: for saying that, but there was there's this connection of
Speaker 3: this one brother who kind of just was shunned because
Speaker 3: whether it was mental health stuff, whether it was physical stuff,
Speaker 3: whether it was whatever. He lived to be seventy one.
Speaker 3: I mean that's amazing. Yeah at that point time, Yeah,
Speaker 3: that I'm like, okay, makes me wonder because they talked
Speaker 3: about him having quote unquote fits you know, we don't
Speaker 3: know what that means, and then that that's what happened
Speaker 3: with his brother. No one acknowledged him, no one said
Speaker 3: him money, no one talked to him, no one reached
Speaker 3: out to him. Like it makes me think a lot
Speaker 3: about like what was the point of this one character
Speaker 3: that she brought in, because I don't really hear much
Speaker 3: of that callousness of someone dying like they did in
Speaker 3: this way of like outside of like oh this man
Speaker 3: was useless, this ex husband was useless, he was mean,
Speaker 3: or all these things like that kind of thing. But
Speaker 3: that was kind of interesting. So I don't know if
Speaker 3: that was something poigted with her own family take. It
Speaker 3: was one of her last books. She was getting sick.
Speaker 3: She apparently had a lot of ailments, so that could
Speaker 3: have been just as that so being being seen as
Speaker 3: inconvenient or whatever whatnot. I found that interesting. Again, may
Speaker 3: got too dark and too deep into her history for
Speaker 3: that one, but yeah, no. Of course, as a part
Speaker 3: of anything else wealth talking about wealth. Constant talk about
Speaker 3: wealth and money being a motivator, whether it's who you
Speaker 3: married or who you didn't marry, is all throughout her book.
Speaker 3: And of course her constant back thought is I can't
Speaker 3: marry this person or I have to marry this person
Speaker 3: because of money. And of course it was at that
Speaker 3: point in time your livelihood depended on whether or not
Speaker 3: you could provide for yourself and your family.
Speaker 2: Right right, It is like the biggest driver for a
Speaker 2: lot of the decisions that were made. And I mean
Speaker 2: it starts with I thought this was really interesting how
Speaker 2: it begins, because I, as someone who had read it,
Speaker 2: it kind of starts with this interesting portrait of Sir
Speaker 2: Walter Elliott and how who he is and how he
Speaker 2: got into debt and how he's so proud he doesn't
Speaker 2: want anyone to know that he's in this trouble.
Speaker 1: How can they like keep up airs as they say?
Speaker 2: And then you get introduced to his daughters, and I
Speaker 2: didn't know who the main character was, and originally they're
Speaker 2: kind of paint and it is like this background like
Speaker 2: shee's okay, and so I didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 2: But it's like, right from the jump is the impetus
Speaker 2: of we need money. We want to at least look
Speaker 2: like we have money. We want to be able to,
Speaker 2: you know, appear like we're high society or whatever HI,
Speaker 2: And that determines, you know, like where they move and
Speaker 2: their relationships with people, and not just like marriage, but
Speaker 2: like friends, like who you're gonna hang out with, who
Speaker 2: you will be seen with, all those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: So it was.
Speaker 2: Incredibly huge scene and important to everybody, right right.
Speaker 3: I actually really like you to talk about them having they
Speaker 3: can't be associated be friends with unless they have high money,
Speaker 3: which was the whole like the thought process of Elizabeth
Speaker 3: trying to invite people that she doesn't want to be seen,
Speaker 3: but they should, They of their standing should be just
Speaker 3: happy with an afternoon drink game session instead of a
Speaker 3: whole mill because they don't want to. First, she doesn't
Speaker 3: want to be seen as poor because they can't do
Speaker 3: that because they only have one or two servants and
Speaker 3: they need more to be seen as high class. But
Speaker 3: at the same time they're not deserving even though they
Speaker 3: have more money than than Elizabeth and Sir Wallace that
Speaker 3: it's quite funny, that dichotomy of her like, but we're
Speaker 3: still higher ranking than them, so we don't want this
Speaker 3: to happen.
Speaker 1: Like it's quite funny.
Speaker 3: And then she gets jaded and all alone.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 2: That's I'm telling you that whole Miss Clay thing sent
Speaker 2: me for a loop.
Speaker 1: Well I knew it was.
Speaker 2: I knew because she was kind of like I knew
Speaker 2: she was being set up with the father, but I thought.
Speaker 3: She wasn't being set up. She was set herself up
Speaker 3: with the father, right, She's trying to scheme her way in.
Speaker 1: I was hoping they'd be real friends, that's all. That's all.
Speaker 3: There's one or two scandalous women about, and she is
Speaker 3: the one.
Speaker 1: For this one.
Speaker 3: Sugg said, her life is sad again because she's like,
Speaker 3: just try to make it. But that's okay because with
Speaker 3: her being the mistress of mister Elliott, she owned that
Speaker 3: home and therefore she has made herself a mistress.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: So she did it, she did it.
Speaker 1: She did. I don't want to own it. Well that
Speaker 1: he does now well I know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean we're on the flip side. We
Speaker 2: do see, is it, missus Smith? Like we see what
Speaker 2: happens when you don't have money for women too, And
Speaker 2: it was not.
Speaker 3: Her fault, and there was money there and she couldn't
Speaker 3: get to it unless a man, you know, vouched for
Speaker 3: her and helped her. It was a whole thing like
Speaker 3: she's now settled, but for the time being she wasn't,
Speaker 3: as she was destined and had one or two friends,
Speaker 3: and no one wanted to help her except for the
Speaker 3: nurse friend. And then it turned out it's partially this,
Speaker 3: mister Eliot's fault that you can't live.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like a lot of evil, a lot
Speaker 2: of the stuff, not all of it which we're about
Speaker 2: to talk about, but a lot of it was like
Speaker 2: your dad's in debt. So now this woman has to
Speaker 2: suffer or like right, this man and now this woman
Speaker 2: has to suffer.
Speaker 3: Right Oftentimes that we see that again and again and again,
Speaker 3: and that's what Jane's like, don't go with a false
Speaker 3: man because he's not gonna leave you happy. Yeah, And
Speaker 3: as the title would suggest, persuasion are being persuaded or
Speaker 3: even manipulated, if you want to go and step further,
Speaker 3: as a big theme throughout and as the result of
Speaker 3: why she's in this situation or anybody is in this
Speaker 3: situation in general, because she is trying to please everyone
Speaker 3: else but herself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I you know, I'm several layers removed from
Speaker 2: this time period obviously, but I really related to that.
Speaker 1: I've dated people.
Speaker 2: I was kind of like because I thought like society
Speaker 2: was telling me too, like you should do it, give
Speaker 2: it it go. And so in this particular case, like
Speaker 2: we see and you know, pretty happy with this guy, Fredrick.
Speaker 1: She was quite young, but she was pretty happy with him.
Speaker 2: Announced announced this engagement, and like Lady Russell in particular was.
Speaker 1: Like no, no, no, and I'm gonna I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna talk you out of it, and everybody was against it,
Speaker 2: and so she kind of so she she broke it off,
Speaker 2: and as you said, like perhaps that was for the best,
Speaker 2: like they could both mature, he could come back at
Speaker 2: a better time. But it was something that she was
Speaker 2: basically kind of bullied almost like no, no, no, this
Speaker 2: is not her her decision and her agency almost was
Speaker 2: just kind of taken away, like no, that's bad match,
Speaker 2: you don't.
Speaker 1: Want to do that.
Speaker 2: And she really respected Lady Russell, so she was like, oh, okay, right, right, So.
Speaker 3: Lady Russell was the friend of the mother and very
Speaker 3: big confidante to the home. She really helped them out
Speaker 3: so many times. It was really kind of funny. Also,
Speaker 3: Sir Wallace's description of Lady Russell was like, yeah, but
Speaker 3: she's not pretty and she's getting old, so no, like
Speaker 3: that's kind of that's what his thing was. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting because yes, this is the beginning.
Speaker 3: We understand that she has been talked out of being
Speaker 3: in love essentially with this man who has no fortune,
Speaker 3: who has no name, so therefore she doesn't do it.
Speaker 3: But then we see that later on that people trying
Speaker 3: to do the same things again and trying to turn
Speaker 3: her to a different man who may have been like
Speaker 3: seemingly better. All of these conversations, whether it's trying to
Speaker 3: persuade one person to be one person go to this place, like,
Speaker 3: all of these things are happening, and she's finally coming
Speaker 3: into her own and doing her own work to figure
Speaker 3: out what she wants and truly what she wants and
Speaker 3: why she wants it, or why she doesn't trust this
Speaker 3: person or whatever whatnot, instead of just believing that they're
Speaker 3: of a good character and or not. So I find
Speaker 3: that fun. Throughout we also see the other works of
Speaker 3: people try to manipulate her into other situations, whether it's
Speaker 3: Mary manipulating her to be like, you need to stay
Speaker 3: with me and take care of the children, and that works,
Speaker 3: she does it, and then all these other things happen,
Speaker 3: and then you also see I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: a manipulation. Quite like, we don't know if Captain Wentworth
Speaker 3: actually pushed Benwick to Louisa so he could no longer
Speaker 3: have to actually marry her. I don't know. He says
Speaker 3: it's a good fortune and it just happened to happen,
Speaker 3: so you know, okay, seems suspect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, as I said earlier,
Speaker 2: like a lot of what people's actions were in regards
Speaker 2: to Anne were of all about them. So like even
Speaker 2: with Charles mister Musgrove and everyone being like we wish
Speaker 2: you had married him. They want that, not necessarily because
Speaker 2: they like really like Anne, but they like Anne better Mary.
Speaker 2: But yeah, all of these kind of machinations and manipulations
Speaker 2: around relationships.
Speaker 1: And I think it's what you said earlier that was.
Speaker 2: A really good point of her learning to trust herself
Speaker 2: of not just like, oh, this guy is suspicious. She
Speaker 2: gets to the bottom of why he's suspicious. She trust,
Speaker 2: she feels it, but then she gets to the bottom
Speaker 2: of it. And it's the same with Frederick, where she's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I still really like this guy, and just kind of
Speaker 2: like accepting, you know what, that's that's what I want,
Speaker 2: that's what I'm right about everybody else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, I appreciate that. And then also Lady
Speaker 3: Russell being persuaded to understand she was wrong.
Speaker 1: She was wrong, she was very.
Speaker 3: Wrong about both of these men, and then realizing having
Speaker 3: to admit that and coming to understanding that they're in
Speaker 3: a happy place. But again and throughout it's like, I
Speaker 3: am not bitter about this. I don't think this was
Speaker 3: out of malice, And I think this worked out to
Speaker 3: the perfect timing, which is probably the other theme to
Speaker 3: this is like timing for everything even though it caused
Speaker 3: a lot of heartache and a lot of doubt, it
Speaker 3: finally came round to working itself out, and of course
Speaker 3: she's in a better situation because he is rich continuing
Speaker 3: to be rich. Apparently this was during the the French War. Anyway,
Speaker 3: it was barely around that time. And you know, interesting
Speaker 3: fun fact also is when one of the places that
Speaker 3: Janelson and her family had to move to was a
Speaker 3: naval town, and there was insinuation that they had a
Speaker 3: really hard time and may have been harassed by those
Speaker 3: around her because they were not of they didn't have money,
Speaker 3: so therefore they were treated poorly. Not sure, but she
Speaker 3: seems to give a good review of the navy and
Speaker 3: those of the navy, so I don't know, it would
Speaker 3: not imply that maybe it was just a setup that
Speaker 3: she needed. Who knows, because again this does go to
Speaker 3: a lot of her own life where she seemingly uses
Speaker 3: the rich character to the guy that she turned down
Speaker 3: to being in love with, the lower character who needed
Speaker 3: money but came up on money. All of these things
Speaker 3: that happened to be perfect for these conversations. Apparently her
Speaker 3: father was a reverend, so we have conversations about that
Speaker 3: in some of the books that she writes, So there's
Speaker 3: a lot to be said and how she takes her
Speaker 3: own personal situations and put it into the books. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I really, I really loved this book. How did you feel?
Speaker 1: It was a fun read?
Speaker 2: It was a fun read. Like I said, I wish
Speaker 2: I had had a chart. I think I figured out
Speaker 2: when mister Elliott showed up.
Speaker 1: I was so confused. It's also because of like.
Speaker 2: My modern day mind where I'm like, never would you
Speaker 2: marry family members, which is not true of the time, right,
Speaker 2: But god, I was so confused.
Speaker 1: But I did enjoy it. It did kind of crack me up.
Speaker 2: I know I mentioned it earlier, but I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, you add dragons in here. This is Game
Speaker 2: of Thrones. This is the same thing, a little bit
Speaker 2: more violence of dramas.
Speaker 3: Dragons violence, and less happy endings. I think maybe maybe
Speaker 3: family drama.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was like, there's a lot of drama and a
Speaker 3: lot of not as funny equips as you like since
Speaker 3: start here in Game of Thrones that I've maybe that's
Speaker 3: just me maybe, But yeah, I love these books and
Speaker 3: it always makes me feel cozy and like is feel
Speaker 3: sentimental in itself. I still argue with people about whether
Speaker 3: or not as feminists because people were like, they just
Speaker 3: get mad, they all settle in and all, you know,
Speaker 3: give in to marriage, And I'm like, but yeah, this
Speaker 3: is the standard. And during her time she was rebellious,
Speaker 3: and her own life she was actually rebellious did not
Speaker 3: end well. But it's okay because she accomplished a lot,
Speaker 3: as we see, unfortunately not during that time. We wish
Speaker 3: we could give it all the flowers. Although she did
Speaker 3: get money for it. She did get paid, and she
Speaker 3: did get some fame and acclaim for it as loving
Speaker 3: the book, not necessarily her, but yeah, I think it's
Speaker 3: it's such a great take. There's so many things to
Speaker 3: learn from it as you look back on what the
Speaker 3: traditions were and understanding where she was and she was
Speaker 3: fighting society with these books and trying to talk about
Speaker 3: how these standards are absurd, and class and rank was absurd,
Speaker 3: and how for women it means nothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah almost, yeah, yeah, And I think with her her
Speaker 2: woody equips as you say, like you see that you
Speaker 2: see that signing through of this commentary on how absurd
Speaker 2: and ridiculous a lot of all of this.
Speaker 3: Is she's not quiet about it, and I love no.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. It was really fun. It was really fun.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll do another one in the future.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I mean we want to do the whole
Speaker 3: damn Prime Prejudice BBC series. I'm down.
Speaker 1: I would love it. I think it'd be great.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, and I'm excited.
Speaker 2: Perfect it's our next the whole month of content out.
Speaker 1: I would I would love it. I think it'd be great.
Speaker 2: Well, look forward to that, listeners, and in the meantime,
Speaker 2: as always, if you have any suggestions for book clubs,
Speaker 2: movie picks, or any any topic at all, really, you
Speaker 2: can email us at Stephania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
Speaker 2: or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You.
Speaker 1: Thanks, as always to our super borders of Christina.
Speaker 3: Oh Christina, I need your opinions about Jane Austen.
Speaker 2: Yes please, and thanks to you for listening Stuffan Ever
Speaker 2: Told You?
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