Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is Talk Easy. I'm standing for Gooso. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 2: Today.
Speaker 1: I am joined by comedian, actor, writer and director Rommi Yusef.
Speaker 1: I first sat down with Rommi last spring, where he
Speaker 1: was campaigning around season three of his self titled show Rommie,
Speaker 1: available on Hulu. Since then, you may have seen him
Speaker 1: in Poor Things alongside at Emma Stone and Willem Dafoe,
Speaker 1: or perhaps his work in The Bear where he directed
Speaker 1: that great episode in season two where Marcus played by
Speaker 1: Lionel Boyce, is learning how to make pastries in Copenhagen
Speaker 1: while living on a boat, which is either the best
Speaker 1: month of someone's life or the absolute worst, And if
Speaker 1: you watch that episode, it's somehow both. And it's a
Speaker 1: testament to Rommy's talent as a filmmaker that the team
Speaker 1: at The Bear actually brought him in, which is pretty
Speaker 1: rare for them to direct that episode of season two.
Speaker 1: The creator of that show is a man named Christopher Storer.
Speaker 1: He directs most of The Bear, and he also is
Speaker 1: the director behind Rommy's latest HBO special, More Feelings, that
Speaker 1: comes out this Saturday, March twenty third. By the time
Speaker 1: you're listening to this, it is out if you haven't
Speaker 1: streamed it yet on Max. Here's a clip from the trailer.
Speaker 2: I'm done apologizing. I'm done saying that we're peaceful. For
Speaker 2: twenty years, we've had to prove to people that we're safe.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Every time you turn on CNN, there's like some Arab
Speaker 2: dude talking about how Islam means peace. You know that guy,
Speaker 2: but he's always shouting it. He's always like, we come
Speaker 2: in peace. You're like, Bro, that's the slogan for aliens.
Speaker 2: That's what aliens say before they take over the fucking planet. Bro,
Speaker 2: I'm done, I'm done saying sorry.
Speaker 1: That was from More Feelings, now available to stream on Max.
Speaker 1: As you can tell just by that snippet, Rommy is
Speaker 1: venturing into some uncharted territory. It's a bit more pointed
Speaker 1: and political than maybe his earlier work, but it's no
Speaker 1: less funny because romy has this way, and I think
Speaker 1: it is a singular thing that he is doing, which
Speaker 1: is he can create jokes around issue that are not
Speaker 1: typically conducive to comedy, whether it's the upcoming election, the
Speaker 1: crisis in Gaza, or what it's like to be a
Speaker 1: Muslim American in twenty twenty four, Rommy somehow finds a
Speaker 1: way to get people to laugh about things they don't
Speaker 1: typically laugh about. And so before we returned to this
Speaker 1: conversation with him from last year, I thought we'd give
Speaker 1: him a call to talk about this new special, all
Speaker 1: that's happened since we last spoke, and of course the
Speaker 1: fact that he's about to host Saturday Night Live on
Speaker 1: the thirtieth this month, which is a sentence on a
Speaker 1: personal note, I'm just so glad I get to say
Speaker 1: on this show. There are a few comedians that are
Speaker 1: pushing the medium forward in the way that he is,
Speaker 1: And so it means a whole lot that Rommy was
Speaker 1: willing to talk this week and what is probably one
Speaker 1: of the busiest weeks.
Speaker 2: Of his life. And so with that, why don't we
Speaker 2: call him up? Hey, Ramy, Sam, how you doing. I'm
Speaker 2: happy to hear your voice.
Speaker 1: You came into the city to pick up a phone
Speaker 1: call for me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: For Sam, it's you gotta.
Speaker 1: Last time we spoke on microphones, it was a week
Speaker 1: after you had finished observing Ramadan. You are now in
Speaker 1: the throes of it. I guess we're just going to
Speaker 1: keep talking on microphones once a year around this like
Speaker 1: very spiritual month of yours.
Speaker 2: Yeah, talking with you has become part of my spiritual
Speaker 2: practice now. Actually, you know, so next Ramadan, we gotta
Speaker 2: do something because now I'm actually in shock that it's
Speaker 2: been that long, because if you told me i'd ballpark,
Speaker 2: it's been six months.
Speaker 1: So that's really wild, a little disturbing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually can't believe that that was basically a
Speaker 2: year ago. I think actually when I saw you, it
Speaker 2: must have been I was either on my way or
Speaker 2: I had just come back from I was doing the
Speaker 2: bare episode that I did, and then I was beginning
Speaker 2: to write something new and we were about to go
Speaker 2: on strike. There was so much happening. And so now
Speaker 2: on the other end of that, now that that episode's
Speaker 2: come out, now that the film that Poor Things came out,
Speaker 2: it's been really cool, you know, I kind of everything
Speaker 2: feels a lot more out there, you know, in terms
Speaker 2: of connecting with people. Then at that time, I did
Speaker 2: a lot more stand up since then, and I think
Speaker 2: I've just been spiritually reflecting on you know, how do
Speaker 2: you find quiet when there's a lot of output happening.
Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, in the middle of
Speaker 2: a press thing and getting something out and doing shows
Speaker 2: and doing all that the month is really needed. Actually
Speaker 2: for me, it's cool to slow down and be really
Speaker 2: deliberate and wake up at early hours in the morning
Speaker 2: and eat before the sun rises. Is actually it's great.
Speaker 2: I don't look at my phone when I wake up
Speaker 2: that early because I know there's no one's calling, you know,
Speaker 2: at four in the morning. So it's a really great
Speaker 2: way to start the day in what our kind of
Speaker 2: crazy days. So you would think, oh, the days are
Speaker 2: so crazy, I'm getting less sleep, But actually it's more
Speaker 2: energizing to start the way that I've been starting.
Speaker 1: We're talking a couple hours before sunset. How are you
Speaker 1: at the end of days?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Right now, you know, I feel good, I because now
Speaker 2: i'm I think this is the eighth No, it's the
Speaker 2: ninth day of fast thing and now it's It's really
Speaker 2: wild how the body just suggests to whatever you tell it. Right.
Speaker 2: So there are days when I feel like I actually
Speaker 2: can't make any sort of decision unless I have a burrito.
Speaker 2: You know, that day we usally get me the burrito.
Speaker 2: I need the burrito, you know, and I'll be there
Speaker 2: in three months, I'll be back in like Burrito Panic.
Speaker 1: It is Burrito Panic. The name of your next special.
Speaker 2: It might be now I think it's it's either that
Speaker 2: or if I ever you know, reboot an improv group.
Speaker 1: It actually is stronger as an improv group. That's a
Speaker 1: great title.
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, we're Burrito Panic. We'd love to take a suggestion.
Speaker 1: First, one, you have another name for the group. You know,
Speaker 1: since we spoke, as you said, you've been touring a
Speaker 1: whole lot with this new special of yours. It's now
Speaker 1: out on Max. It's called More Feelings, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: could be the title of this podcast if you hadn't
Speaker 1: taken it.
Speaker 2: I actually very much see that absolutely, Like now that
Speaker 2: I know you a little more, I definitely see that.
Speaker 1: I really love the special. I rewatched it last night.
Speaker 1: But for those who haven't seen it yet, you have
Speaker 1: this quote about stand up that I just want to
Speaker 1: start with. As a table setter, you said, stand up
Speaker 1: for me is like I'm going to come on stage
Speaker 1: with something that I'm battling with and I've figured out
Speaker 1: a way to make it funny before I've found the
Speaker 1: answer to what I'm looking for. So, as you're on
Speaker 1: this tour, crafting the Special, What were the ideas and
Speaker 1: the subjects that you were battling with.
Speaker 2: I think there was this feeling of responsibility that I
Speaker 2: was trying to figure out. I've gotten the opportunity, you know,
Speaker 2: to make stuff, and I think every time I go
Speaker 2: to a show, especially now, this was really my first
Speaker 2: tour since we'd done the three seasons of RAMI for
Speaker 2: kind of a variety of reasons, I didn't really get
Speaker 2: to go out and do a lot of cities, some
Speaker 2: of them being COVID and other things, and so I
Speaker 2: was really feeling this different thing as a stand up
Speaker 2: where you're now you're getting to do small theaters and
Speaker 2: you're getting you know, people are coming out in a
Speaker 2: way that they weren't coming out before, and you feel
Speaker 2: this thing of oh wow, you know I have people's attention,
Speaker 2: you know, and what does that mean and what is
Speaker 2: there to what do you do with that? And I
Speaker 2: think that The Special kind of tackles some of that
Speaker 2: in the sense of, you know, what does it mean
Speaker 2: to be public and how political are you supposed to be?
Speaker 2: And how seriously or not seriously should you take that? Right?
Speaker 2: Because I kind of always am the comic in me
Speaker 2: is like, guy, don't listen to me. I did not
Speaker 2: finish college and I'm not you know, I just don't.
Speaker 2: There's you know, my scope is so limited, and I'm
Speaker 2: just trying to take really big things and make them
Speaker 2: really dumb. And I was definitely dealing with that kind
Speaker 2: of responsibility, but then also thinking a bit about personal relationships,
Speaker 2: thinking about my family, thinking about getting married. You know,
Speaker 2: all of these themes I think kind of found their
Speaker 2: way into the special, and I think as I was touring,
Speaker 2: I was figuring out how much do I want to
Speaker 2: talk about each of them and what fits the moment
Speaker 2: of where I am, And so that in process quote
Speaker 2: you're talking about, I use it as like giving myself
Speaker 2: permission to be loose enough to be cool with how
Speaker 2: it goes, so to not walk in and kind of say, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, this is word perfect and I've tried this,
Speaker 2: you know, one hundred and twenty times and you're getting that. No,
Speaker 2: it's there's a thing in capturing the medium of stand up.
Speaker 2: It's never fully captured on film.
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: There's nothing like a live show, watching a comic do
Speaker 2: a joke for the first time and being there and
Speaker 2: seeing them, and as a comic, there's nothing like seeing
Speaker 2: the crowd and feeling it. And I think that what
Speaker 2: ends up as a special that you can view is
Speaker 2: a separate experience. It's like telling someone a story over,
Speaker 2: you know. But if you were oh man, if you
Speaker 2: were there, you know, and so this gives you a
Speaker 2: peak of being there. It's truly never quite the same.
Speaker 2: And I think putting together the special while also experiencing
Speaker 2: the tour are kind of two different things. And then
Speaker 2: as the date kind of narrowed in, it became clear, Okay,
Speaker 2: here are the things I want to talk about on
Speaker 2: this kind of February third, or I think that was
Speaker 2: the date that we we shot, like the third and
Speaker 2: the fourth, or the second and the third or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as you were going on tour and then putting
Speaker 1: the special together, at the heart of it is this
Speaker 1: crisis in Gaza, and you manage to make jokes and
Speaker 1: create material out of a situation I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: has been able to be funny about for the most part,
Speaker 1: and you are somehow holding both the ongoing tragedy at
Speaker 1: this moment while also making and doing bits around the edges.
Speaker 1: How the hell do you do that.
Speaker 2: I think it's because it's not reactionary. So I think
Speaker 2: anyone who's kind of seen me do stand up over
Speaker 2: the last few years will if you've seen me live,
Speaker 2: you'll see some of these bits. And it's really interesting
Speaker 2: because you'd be surprised how little of it is immediately topical.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There's obviously things that I'm talking about that you can
Speaker 2: tell I wrote in the last few months, but so
Speaker 2: many of the bedrocks of the personal stories. You know,
Speaker 2: I have this whole story about going on a date
Speaker 2: where talking about Palestine comes up, and that's a bit
Speaker 2: I've had, right, and so that's where it's kind of
Speaker 2: you know, and when we talked last time, it's not
Speaker 2: like it was fully in the news cycle and it
Speaker 2: came up right because it had come up in our season.
Speaker 2: So it's not sensational when it's something that you actually
Speaker 2: care about and has been kind of part of the conversation.
Speaker 2: And I also think that anyone who's coming to see
Speaker 2: me is also familiar with the idea that, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is something that means something to me. And so that
Speaker 2: being said, there's still a ton of reservation and what
Speaker 2: does that look like?
Speaker 1: The reservation I mean.
Speaker 2: It looks like just the questioning I think anyone could
Speaker 2: have with whatever they're doing, you know, like, is this
Speaker 2: does this help? I don't know, actually, and I don't
Speaker 2: with my work. I am open to getting enough distance
Speaker 2: from it and then having kind of an honest assessment
Speaker 2: of what it did. Did this affect people positively? Did
Speaker 2: this affect me positively? And I think that I'll find
Speaker 2: different answers around different pieces. You know, I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: going to be jokes I regret, and I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: going to be jokes that I wasn't sure if I
Speaker 2: should tell, and then I'll look back and say, oh,
Speaker 2: thank god I said that. But it's really kind of
Speaker 2: complicated to think about it outside of the sixty minutes
Speaker 2: of the set, because it is everything outside of the
Speaker 2: set is in terms of the real world. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: you said, I mean, it's incredibly it's incredibly demoralizing and dark.
Speaker 2: And my hope is that this is something, but I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: You know, recently, we sat with doctor Cima Jelauney, who
Speaker 1: was working in Gaza and had come back, and there's
Speaker 1: a couple times in our conversation where we ended up
Speaker 1: making jokes after twenty minutes of just true pain and heartbreak.
Speaker 1: And I like to think if she can make a joke,
Speaker 1: then I think, I mean not know only that she can.
Speaker 1: But she was like all the doctors when we were
Speaker 1: over there, like, yeah, we would all try to do
Speaker 1: a joke sometimes because oh my god, if we don't laugh,
Speaker 1: it's not possible for them to do their work.
Speaker 2: And dude, that's my conversations have been that way with
Speaker 2: journalists who are there, or with people I know who
Speaker 2: are there. And you know, I was talking to a
Speaker 2: friend of mine who you know, knows a lot of
Speaker 2: journalists who've lost family members, who've been through and and
Speaker 2: you know, he's like, yeah, last night we were hysterically
Speaker 2: laughing for an hour because it is it is actually
Speaker 2: a human response, you know, it is something And so
Speaker 2: I think it's about tapping into a feeling. And again
Speaker 2: it's it's probably part of the name of the special
Speaker 2: and why I really lean towards calling it that because
Speaker 2: it's kind of all that it is. But is there
Speaker 2: room for some sort of alternate response in this? And
Speaker 2: it is also a very Arab response, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a very like Muslims and Arabs are constantly joking about
Speaker 2: so many things, you know, like I knew a guy
Speaker 2: who who'd lost a kid, you know, and and and
Speaker 2: you know he's still it's it's it's the worst thing.
Speaker 2: And he's like, you know, you know, he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess I have two more, you know, like like
Speaker 2: he'll find a way to laugh in the middle of
Speaker 2: something that's that's absolutely terrible. It's an outlet, you know.
Speaker 2: I think, like with tears, there's also there's also laughs.
Speaker 2: It's the it's just how we respond.
Speaker 1: One joke I don't think you'll regret is one in
Speaker 1: which you call President Biden quote having substitute teacher energy.
Speaker 1: But I get that right. And I just thought that
Speaker 1: was so nice of you to say that he has energy.
Speaker 1: I thought that was really kind that you said that
Speaker 1: about him. I was really nice.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, dude, I.
Speaker 1: Have a question for you. Don't worry. In twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: the Biden administration called you and said, Rommy, we've seen
Speaker 1: your work. We're huge fans. We subscribe on Hulu. We've
Speaker 1: totally seen all three seasons. I guess at that point
Speaker 1: it was only one or two seasons. And they asked
Speaker 1: you to basically campaign for him in Michigan, which is
Speaker 1: a central battleground state for him. Obviously, you've probably seen
Speaker 1: in the news Biden has clinched the nomination basically in
Speaker 1: delicate count in Michigan. There were over one hundred thousand
Speaker 1: votes cast us uncommitted ballots, which is a direct result
Speaker 1: of Biden's handling of the crisis in Gaza. So I
Speaker 1: have to ask you, one has he seen the new special?
Speaker 1: Two has he seen Poor Things? And three have they
Speaker 1: called me yet?
Speaker 2: Biden definitely loves poor Things. The man's a freak that
Speaker 2: we know. You know. In terms of the special, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure. In terms of will there be another call,
Speaker 2: probably not, especially if they've seen the special. But I
Speaker 2: do think that the uncommitted campaign is incredibly impressive because
Speaker 2: I think, you know, we're being really clear. I don't
Speaker 2: think that anyone I know is saying, Okay, Trump is
Speaker 2: a better option. No one's saying that. But I also
Speaker 2: think that there has to be some sort of clarity
Speaker 2: around we refuse to be silent. You know, we are
Speaker 2: a voting constituent. How are we not able to vocalize
Speaker 2: where we're at? And I think that's some of the
Speaker 2: pushback that I know know the special will get, or
Speaker 2: that I know I've gotten from some people where they go,
Speaker 2: aren't you afraid that Trump is going to be worse?
Speaker 2: And I kind of keep coming back to this point
Speaker 2: of you know, that's abuse, right. It's like you don't
Speaker 2: speak up because you don't want things to get worse,
Speaker 2: or you don't want to get hit harder. Right, It's textbook,
Speaker 2: you know. And so we've created an abusive relationship between
Speaker 2: the voter and the ruling class, one where everyone forks
Speaker 2: up a lot of money that they could be putting
Speaker 2: into their family. It's hard to back anyone when you
Speaker 2: know there's never going to be campaign finance reform. Right.
Speaker 2: So it's like, if you don't change the way money
Speaker 2: gets into politics, then the only thing the rules politics
Speaker 2: is money, and then it just becomes a corporate game.
Speaker 2: So I all these guys are just it's almost algebraic.
Speaker 2: It's interchangeable at a certain point. And I understand there's
Speaker 2: certain social, civil liberties that we prefer from a democratic presidential, House, Senate, whatever,
Speaker 2: but it's starting to get thin, all of it. It's
Speaker 2: really all starting to get thin, especially because a lot
Speaker 2: lot of these laws, you know, don't change, and you
Speaker 2: see a guy I'm almost more infuriated with Biden for
Speaker 2: continuing to fund the border wall. That's what really tells me.
Speaker 2: You know, you're using the social issues. You're saying you're
Speaker 2: for Muslims, you're saying you're for gay people and trans people,
Speaker 2: you're saying you're for women. But outside of those niceties,
Speaker 2: a lot of the ways that you're legislating, you know,
Speaker 2: other things are no different from the other side. And
Speaker 2: so don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's all
Speaker 2: the same. And I know that there's all the Supreme
Speaker 2: Court shit and all that kind of stuff, and so
Speaker 2: I always hesitate to get too deep on this stuff.
Speaker 2: I just think that what they did with uncommitted was
Speaker 2: really important because I think it's important to say and
Speaker 2: I think having groups stand up, you know, we refuse
Speaker 2: to be used the name and not be recognized in
Speaker 2: how you govern, and I think that's very important.
Speaker 1: By the way, I also agree with I mean, I
Speaker 1: agree with you that the the uncommitted votes were meaningful,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad they get it. Yeah, I think on
Speaker 1: a very base, sick level, the fact that they could
Speaker 1: do it that they are still able to do it
Speaker 1: is something only one candidate is offering on the next
Speaker 1: go around. Yeah, that's not to absolve min it and
Speaker 1: not ething like that.
Speaker 2: No, of course we're looking at this like totalitarian alternative, right,
Speaker 2: And so again it's like, how do you voice where
Speaker 2: you're at and also understand that there's one version of
Speaker 2: it that can be healthy, constructive, going back and forth
Speaker 2: and figuring out how to get somewhere, and there's another
Speaker 2: version that might be really dark, and it's like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: like shut up. You know. So that's that's interesting, right.
Speaker 1: We should remind people that the special is really funny.
Speaker 2: You asked me about I mean, what can I say?
Speaker 1: You know, let me let me set you up better.
Speaker 1: You mentioned at this point it's almost become algebraic, the
Speaker 1: math bit that you have in the special. Yeah, whether
Speaker 1: it's that one or something else. What joke are you
Speaker 1: most proud of in this new special?
Speaker 2: You know, there's this story and I don't want to
Speaker 2: give away too much, but there's a story about this
Speaker 2: book report from when I was a kid that's in the.
Speaker 1: Special with Gandhi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with Gandhi, and I think it is probably one
Speaker 2: of my favorite things because I actually, you know, I
Speaker 2: just my dad just saw this special, and basically it's
Speaker 2: a confession of something I'd been keeping from my dad
Speaker 2: my whole life, and I don't think he kind of knew.
Speaker 2: But it's just funny the things that you kind of bring,
Speaker 2: you know, that you hold back from your family. And
Speaker 2: that's where the work becomes really fun, where whether it's
Speaker 2: making the show, doing the stand up, I always kind
Speaker 2: of find the best conversations I'll end up having afterwards
Speaker 2: are with my family or with close friends, and it
Speaker 2: kind of opens up something new.
Speaker 1: You know, what's your favorite bit that you cut out
Speaker 1: of the special that you can share here because it
Speaker 1: won't be on the special.
Speaker 2: I have this bit that I think is going to
Speaker 2: exist in my next special. You know, I talk about
Speaker 2: prayer in the special, but I've been really into this
Speaker 2: idea of the way that one can and I definitely do.
Speaker 2: We'll kind I'll kind of judge what I'm praying for,
Speaker 2: and I wonder if I have room to pray for
Speaker 2: kind of all the things, because there's all this heavy
Speaker 2: stuff going on, but then I'm also praying for really
Speaker 2: small things. And there was this bit that I did
Speaker 2: that got cut out of the special that was just
Speaker 2: kind of about praying for my friends, family and gods
Speaker 2: at the same time, but also praying for my friend's
Speaker 2: dog in New York at the same time. And the
Speaker 2: idea really makes me.
Speaker 1: Laugh that they're on the same pendulum.
Speaker 2: Or like, how do you fit that all into one prayer,
Speaker 2: you know, because sometimes you don't have a lot of time,
Speaker 2: but you want to pray for all of it. And
Speaker 2: there's just something really funny to me about that kind
Speaker 2: of just judgment on a space that should have no
Speaker 2: judgment is really funny to me. And obviously I'm always
Speaker 2: kind of circling these spiritual things that kind of interest
Speaker 2: me and keep me up. But yeah, that was a
Speaker 2: fun bit that I think will be kind of a
Speaker 2: longer bit in the next hour that I'm working on.
Speaker 1: Before we go, people are about to hear what is
Speaker 1: essentially your I guess life story. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know how to frame. Yeah, I think we kind of
Speaker 1: went through your life story the best we could.
Speaker 2: You were digging stuff up that I was so impressed.
Speaker 2: I was just you definitely, even this quote you brought
Speaker 2: up in this part of this.
Speaker 1: I was like, man, Sam is just on it. It's
Speaker 1: all love and that's why. I mean, I love what
Speaker 1: you're doing. And so I want to ask you this.
Speaker 1: You're hosting Saturday Night Live that's coming weekend, and I
Speaker 1: was thinking about you starting as a stand up living
Speaker 1: at home in New Jersey, going into the city to perform,
Speaker 1: and then of course, you know, when you were done performing,
Speaker 1: you'd get in your mom's car and you would drive
Speaker 1: back home through the Lincoln Tunnel, reflecting on the night.
Speaker 1: You just had the bits that landed, the bits that didn't.
Speaker 1: And I was just trying to hold that comic, that
Speaker 1: twenty year old with the one who was going to
Speaker 1: go into the city this weekend and host Saturday Night Live,
Speaker 1: like the kid that was ten years old watching George
Speaker 1: Carlin with his uncle hosting the show that Carlin hosted
Speaker 1: that like where are you at? Like how are you doing?
Speaker 2: The funny thing is I think you just painted the
Speaker 2: picture for me. Like I'm getting emotional hearing you say it,
Speaker 2: because I don't think I've taken it in in that way.
Speaker 2: You know, I think with stand up and making, you know,
Speaker 2: making the show, and there's so many milestones that I've
Speaker 2: had where I kind of get to do them and
Speaker 2: look back and go, oh wow. I think the thing
Speaker 2: about SNL is it's so legendary, right. I mean, whether
Speaker 2: I saw Carlin on there the Wolf Feral years, everyone
Speaker 2: I really respected has either been part of that cast
Speaker 2: or has hosted that show. And it's a different one
Speaker 2: because you know, so much of how we made romy
Speaker 2: or how I do specials is actually different than what
Speaker 2: television looked like fifteen years ago. Some of it's the same,
Speaker 2: some of it's totally different. The media landscape is fragmented
Speaker 2: in a different way, all this stuff. But SNL is
Speaker 2: just SNL, And I think, in this weird way, it's
Speaker 2: the thing I've allowed myself to be the most holy shit.
Speaker 2: I get to go and do that, and I get
Speaker 2: to go to thirty Rock and sit in the writer's
Speaker 2: room and eat bad food with people at night, and
Speaker 2: you know, it's a really late night endeavor. It's very
Speaker 2: Ramadan friendly. Just in terms of schedule, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: pretty fantastic. I started getting the schedule, I was like,
Speaker 2: these guys should just fast. I mean, they don't really
Speaker 2: start working untill the sun is down, so it's fantastic.
Speaker 1: They should have just hired you for the whole month.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just bopy in there, dude, I'm ready. What
Speaker 2: else do you need? It's incredibly surreal. I when I
Speaker 2: think about the fear I used to have going to
Speaker 2: an open mic to yeah, getting to you know, I've
Speaker 2: been spending time past week prepping the monologue, and I'll
Speaker 2: go up as I lead up to the hosting night
Speaker 2: and run it in clubs and get it ready. It'll
Speaker 2: also be really cool to go do it in a
Speaker 2: bunch of rooms that were some of my first rooms
Speaker 2: doing stand up, you know, around the city. And so
Speaker 2: I'm really excited about that. And I think that sharing
Speaker 2: it with a lot of my friends who I used
Speaker 2: to kind of force to come out to shows is
Speaker 2: it has been really fun. I Mean there's people I've
Speaker 2: gotten a hit up and be like, man, I remember
Speaker 2: when I made you come to New York Comedy Club
Speaker 2: and we had no money, and I made you pay
Speaker 2: twenty dollars for the ticket and then you had to
Speaker 2: buy two things and you just looked at me like
Speaker 2: I'd ruined your month because I had, you know, I'd
Speaker 2: just drained your your bank account.
Speaker 1: Remember all the bad Wings I forced you to buy
Speaker 1: because it needed to be a thirty dollars minute.
Speaker 2: All the bad Wings you ate for me, dude, just
Speaker 2: traumatic stuff. I mean, because it is like your buddy's
Speaker 2: out fifty bucks and you're not even that good. You know.
Speaker 2: It's like and then it's just the weight of that,
Speaker 2: And I almost wonder, like what will be more pressure?
Speaker 2: Is it performing in front of people on a live broadcast,
Speaker 2: you know national SNL? Or was it? Man, I just
Speaker 2: my buddy's out fifty bucks and this set better be good,
Speaker 2: And it might be the pressure from my friends. I honestly,
Speaker 2: all of that stuff is always harder to me than
Speaker 2: shooting an HBO special.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's just the people who when you've got a
Speaker 2: room full of people, you know, in debt because you're
Speaker 2: pursuing your dream, that's way harder than you know SNL.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, people put me put it on, you know,
Speaker 2: like if you don't like it, they'll switch the channel.
Speaker 1: When you say to your friends, I'm indebted to you,
Speaker 1: you actually meet it.
Speaker 2: I owe everyone hundreds of dollars for sure, at a minimum,
Speaker 2: and for some it could be thousands. And I'm open
Speaker 2: to repaying that debt, like whoever wants to take me,
Speaker 2: you know, up for it. That that's that's real.
Speaker 1: This is great because this tape is gonna come out
Speaker 1: before you host. So I hope people claim that one
Speaker 1: hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: If I brought you to a Bringer show and you're
Speaker 2: still suffering the consequences, call this number the Talk Easy podcast.
Speaker 2: You will be reimbursed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, putting your cell not mine out there. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: before we go. When I was relaying that description of
Speaker 1: like a younger self and you said you hadn't thought
Speaker 1: about it like that, what part of it made you emotional?
Speaker 2: Thinking about the drive? Yeah, the drive, Yeah, the tunnel,
Speaker 2: the drive, the tunnel. Yeah. It puts it all into perspective.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like those quiet moments are the ones where you're
Speaker 2: kind of taking it all in and I think that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so much of the self reflecting was in that. In
Speaker 2: that commute to Jersey, you kind of think about, okay,
Speaker 2: like what worked tonight, what didn't work?
Speaker 1: And will it ever work out?
Speaker 2: And will it ever work? Yeah? I mean there's always
Speaker 2: this ticking time, you know, feeling, and I guess that's
Speaker 2: just from being alive. You just one day you won't
Speaker 2: be but quite directly to this kind of career. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you really don't know. I think the next the next day,
Speaker 2: you know, I'll do Saturday and then I go I
Speaker 2: have dinner with my parents on Sunday, so I'll get
Speaker 2: to do that drive. That'll be cool.
Speaker 1: That's unbelievable. And when you do, I hope, and I
Speaker 1: mean this earnestly, I hope some part of you can
Speaker 1: enjoy it in the moment. I know it's impossible because
Speaker 1: you have a billion things to do and you have
Speaker 1: to put this special together. Not to mention, you have
Speaker 1: to go to the bank and withdraw hundreds of dollars
Speaker 1: to give to your friends the night of.
Speaker 2: I think for a few friends, maybe we can call
Speaker 2: it like an even eight fifty. I think I'll cut
Speaker 2: like eight hundred and fifty dollars checks. I think a
Speaker 2: thousand feels crazy. I'm going to say eight to fifty, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: because I've bought some I've bought a lot of dinners too,
Speaker 2: so I think it's probably I'm going to say eight to.
Speaker 1: Fifty for everybody, you're doing dinner math.
Speaker 2: I'm doing some dinner math just over the last five
Speaker 2: years when I've been able to cover dinner. So I'm
Speaker 2: going to say eight fifty for prior to twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: We're going to send it now to our conversation from
Speaker 1: last year. Do you want listeners to know anything before
Speaker 1: they hear this?
Speaker 2: I just know that I was a different man, and
Speaker 2: I don't even know which, which man I was a
Speaker 2: better one or No. I'm part of what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: I'm shedding good and bad and better and worse, just different.
Speaker 1: I can't even respond to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't, don't, don't cut it out, keep it in.
Speaker 2: It'll all be okay.
Speaker 1: Ramy Yusef as always a pleasure and good luck.
Speaker 2: Thanks man. This is the best.
Speaker 1: Now here is romy Yusef and I talking in April
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three. Help you enjoy it, Ramy Yusef. Yeah,
Speaker 1: A pleasure to meet you, so good to meet you.
Speaker 1: How are you feeling.
Speaker 2: I'm really happy to be here. A lot of stuff
Speaker 2: happened already off pod. There's a lot of good snacks
Speaker 2: outside and great coffee. Do you have any idea how
Speaker 2: many things I go to that arepletely snackless. There's just
Speaker 2: not a single offering of anything. Maybe water, and you
Speaker 2: can tell it's tap. But here, I mean, this shit
Speaker 2: is filtered. Thank you?
Speaker 1: Is this material for your new stand up special?
Speaker 2: I express myself in sometimes things that sound like they
Speaker 2: could be bits, But I'm not a tester. I don't
Speaker 2: test my material and conversation. If I think something's a bit,
Speaker 2: I keep it to myself. I'll try it on stage.
Speaker 1: Because you don't want to give ideas away for free.
Speaker 2: It feels cheap. It feels like I'm using a lunch
Speaker 2: to further my career when I'm just trying to have
Speaker 2: lunch with my friend.
Speaker 1: Well, you're on a podcast, so if you want to
Speaker 1: try stuff out, you're more than welcome to this.
Speaker 2: This is a gray area, but I will say it
Speaker 2: falls a bit into the lunch category because of the
Speaker 2: snack quality that you offered.
Speaker 1: Do pop tarts constitute a lunch for you?
Speaker 2: So there's this bag here of mini pop tarts that
Speaker 2: is blowing my mind because I never want to commit
Speaker 2: to a whole pop tart, of course, and I feel
Speaker 2: bad that they figured out the product outside of my
Speaker 2: prime of eating it thirty two thirty two years old.
Speaker 2: It starts to get weird.
Speaker 1: You know what's unbelievable. People always say about our show
Speaker 1: that we really talk about these big, weighty subjects, but
Speaker 1: really we can talk pop tarts.
Speaker 2: Get me going on gushers and it'll get deep.
Speaker 1: I am kind of afraid to get you going on gushers.
Speaker 1: I feel like we'll never get anywhere. I do want
Speaker 1: to start with something that's just happened, though, because you
Speaker 1: released season three of this show, romy and since the
Speaker 1: show came out, I believe in September of twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: the tensions between Israel and Palestine, they have only escalated.
Speaker 1: Having filmed in Jerusalem. How are you thinking about both
Speaker 1: the conflict over there but also the context that people
Speaker 1: now have in approaching something like episode two of season three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it was d of September, was the
Speaker 2: third season of Rommy, and then in August we released
Speaker 2: the first season of mo where he's you know, proudly
Speaker 2: an undocumented Palestinian guy in Texas. And then in Rami,
Speaker 2: we have a totally different take where Rami is you know,
Speaker 2: American born, and the episode we did is almost completely
Speaker 2: around his own privilege as being kind of American born
Speaker 2: and going over So what's been a culture shift When
Speaker 2: I think about when we started writing both those projects,
Speaker 2: it felt risky at the time to even you know,
Speaker 2: and this was before there was like what I would
Speaker 2: call a big kind of viral Instagram moment that the
Speaker 2: summer of twenty twenty one, when people really started talking
Speaker 2: about what was happening with the occupation of Chef's Genra
Speaker 2: and also even people really being open and saying, you know,
Speaker 2: this isn't a conflict, this is an occupation. You know,
Speaker 2: this is a completely inhumane thing that is happening. And
Speaker 2: I think even in the time, like you're pointing out,
Speaker 2: from writing the projects to releasing the project's big change
Speaker 2: because by the time they came out, it was like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, people are more open to having this conversation.
Speaker 2: It doesn't feel as WHOA is when we wrote it, right,
Speaker 2: And that's in an American context, because I think in
Speaker 2: Europe and throughout other parts of the world, people understand
Speaker 2: what's happening in a more clear way. And so I
Speaker 2: think the approach that we've taken with both shows, to me,
Speaker 2: was always kind of a timeless approach because we're focusing
Speaker 2: on character, so we're not getting into the nitty gritty
Speaker 2: of political debate as much as we are kind of saying,
Speaker 2: you know, what is the you know, blind eye that
Speaker 2: an American Muslim like Romy turns to when you know
Speaker 2: he's living in a country that also has colonial tendencies
Speaker 2: and then he's visiting a country that is being affected
Speaker 2: by colonialism, and so watching that all play out again
Speaker 2: from a personal place, right, Like, I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: use the show to sit and go back and forth.
Speaker 2: There's people who are way more qualified than me to
Speaker 2: talk about this, but we're trying to just put human
Speaker 2: characters in the middle of it.
Speaker 1: Well, why don't we take a look at a scene
Speaker 1: from that episode where your character is in Jerusalem on
Speaker 1: a kind of Tinder like date. Yeah, this is from
Speaker 1: season three, episode two of Romi, now available on Hulu.
Speaker 4: I can't believe you actually came.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, I was late. The fucking checkpoint took forever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, with checkpoints, times are never accurate.
Speaker 2: No, I know, it's so frustrating.
Speaker 5: Like I'm from New Jersey and we have If you
Speaker 5: hear the Lincoln Tunnel, it's basically a fucking checkpoint. Like
Speaker 5: it takes hours to get into New York, but sometimes
Speaker 5: it takes minutes. So everyone's always just confused, like and
Speaker 5: is it going to take a long time?
Speaker 2: Is it not?
Speaker 5: And then it costs like twenty bucks now to get
Speaker 5: in at least you guys, you don't have to pay, right, Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 4: It's okay. We don't need to keep talking about this
Speaker 4: ship the store.
Speaker 2: I work in jewelry, it's it's it's why I came.
Speaker 2: What about you?
Speaker 4: I work in a restaurant in Romalda, but I'm starting
Speaker 4: my launderer company. Really yeah, super affordable lingerie. And the
Speaker 4: tag is everyone has the right to be sexy.
Speaker 2: Wow, you your family's it's okay with that.
Speaker 4: Like religiously, Muslims in the West are so fucking updight
Speaker 4: you act like no one ever kissed before. It's lungerer.
Speaker 4: Everyone wears it. I'm not comment tilba.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, of course you know I'm not. I'm not
Speaker 2: up tight like I've kissed before.
Speaker 1: My favorite part is him complaining about the commute, like
Speaker 1: it's going from Santa Monica to Los Phillies. It's like
Speaker 1: it's ease, I know, stuff happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, She's like they built the wall that wasn't there before.
Speaker 2: He's like, I get it. Stuff happened, but you know,
Speaker 2: you really could have told me before I got Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: He told me there was an acting on the one
Speaker 1: on one, so.
Speaker 2: You know that that's really where, you know, we talk
Speaker 2: about a character with privilege and a character who is
Speaker 2: clearly you know, we get into his addict like tendency
Speaker 2: and I think it says everything too though about the perception.
Speaker 2: Right she starts talking about lingerie and he's like, what
Speaker 2: you guys are that open about, you know, and not
Speaker 2: realizing that the American Muslim bubble is really that it's
Speaker 2: a bubble, and it's oddly disconnected at times from what's
Speaker 2: actually happening in the Middle East, because you have all
Speaker 2: these kids who are you know, their parents were immigrants
Speaker 2: and haven't been back for a while, and they're really
Speaker 2: working hard to maintain the image they have of where
Speaker 2: they were, but it's from like the eighties, it's missing
Speaker 2: the last forty years, and we grew up with it.
Speaker 2: And then you kind of go over and you realize, WHOA,
Speaker 2: they're moving at a really different pace than what we've
Speaker 2: been trying to uphold.
Speaker 1: There's not a whole lot in the middle of the
Speaker 1: Israel Palestine, Van diagram. Did you create Rami in that
Speaker 1: scene so that they could both agree on something, which
Speaker 1: is that you know you're not a great guy.
Speaker 2: The design of the episode from the writer's room was
Speaker 2: purely Rommy's gonna sit with the Palsinian woman, He's gonna
Speaker 2: sit with the Israeli woman. In both situations. Is gonna
Speaker 2: be like, what the fuck's going on with this guy?
Speaker 2: You know that that was one hundred percent straight up
Speaker 2: character assassination. On a level, it felt like the only
Speaker 2: way again to keep it, you know, to keep it character.
Speaker 2: But this woman that he goes on this field date with,
Speaker 2: I think the actress herself, I think got the script
Speaker 2: and said, whoa, I could say this, you know, And
Speaker 2: and that's what's fun about making something with a crew
Speaker 2: in the actual place. I mean, you know, here you're
Speaker 2: on set. Only producers or writers talk over there. The
Speaker 2: guy you know who's doing craft service and bringing food
Speaker 2: will say, hey, man, you know, it would be better
Speaker 2: if you said in this part and you know, and
Speaker 2: I'll say that to me, you know, between takes, and
Speaker 2: I'll go, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, you live here. I'll
Speaker 2: take the note, you know, I'll take notes from anybody
Speaker 2: you know, the transpo guy, whoever, Whoever's got a thought
Speaker 2: and same thing. You know, we obviously had a Palstinian
Speaker 2: director on the episode, but being with that crew, going
Speaker 2: through the script with them and really getting it to
Speaker 2: a place where they felt, Okay, yeah, we're proud to
Speaker 2: shoot this, it was a really cool experience.
Speaker 1: You recently said that this new season was mostly about
Speaker 1: a crisis of faith. Well, what did he mean by that?
Speaker 2: I think, you know, for the romy character, we kind
Speaker 2: of built the show. The premise of the show was
Speaker 2: always what does it look like for someone to not
Speaker 2: try to erase not just lineage, but their faith practice.
Speaker 2: Because I think what I was seeing a lot of
Speaker 2: was this attitude of oh, I grew up religious, I
Speaker 2: grew up this way, but thank God now I'm free
Speaker 2: of that and I get to update. And I said, well,
Speaker 2: that's not really how I feel. You know, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of my tradition, a lot of my faith that
Speaker 2: I want to adhere to, but I'm kind of trying
Speaker 2: to figure out what it means to do that right
Speaker 2: now in this current moment in time. And I thought
Speaker 2: that tension was different. You know, the guy actually wants
Speaker 2: his faith, this season is the first time in the
Speaker 2: show where he's disillusioned by it and we're kind of
Speaker 2: watching him, I think, are from performing faith to kind
Speaker 2: of stripping it down and putting it back together again.
Speaker 2: You know, That's the journey that I wanted to put
Speaker 2: in through this season.
Speaker 1: There's also in this season more of an emphasis on
Speaker 1: the crisis of faith in the American dream when it
Speaker 1: comes to your parents. Yeah, in particular was that onlind.
Speaker 2: Very very I mean, I think it was also looking
Speaker 2: at you know, we're coming out of COVID and we're
Speaker 2: coming out of a big reimagining and also a big
Speaker 2: dent to a lot of the systems that you know,
Speaker 2: we've all been trying to invest in, you know, to work,
Speaker 2: and then we kind of watched a lot of them
Speaker 2: really shake. And that's still playing out now. You know,
Speaker 2: the rebounds of that are really happening today. And I
Speaker 2: think part of the pressure that Arami type has, or
Speaker 2: any kid of an immigrant has, is knowing that their
Speaker 2: parents made a really tough move that was a gamble,
Speaker 2: and you know, you're the dice and you got to
Speaker 2: roll the right way in order for them to feel
Speaker 2: good about what they did. And so when you spend
Speaker 2: the lot of your life feeling like I got to
Speaker 2: be the thing that makes my parents' existence worth it, it's
Speaker 2: a very odd pressure to have. But then you know,
Speaker 2: really also wanting to step back from the parents who
Speaker 2: are like, well, was it really worth it for us
Speaker 2: to even come here and make this gamble too?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: Are we getting what we thought we would get? Is
Speaker 2: this the dream we signed up for a lot of
Speaker 2: these things that they put a lot of stock in
Speaker 2: are falling apart for them, And I think that's also
Speaker 2: part of them realizing, Okay, you know, we've been living
Speaker 2: culturally in a certain way, but we need to be
Speaker 2: more spiritual because we're trying to invest in land. We're
Speaker 2: trying to invest in the idea of a country. We're
Speaker 2: trying to invest in this idea of a job and
Speaker 2: what a job means and to have a job that
Speaker 2: informs my identity, and then realizing, no, there's probably something
Speaker 2: more spiritual to really be digging into. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: that awakening is happening for all the characters.
Speaker 1: To understand the context of the dream your parents had,
Speaker 1: then we have to go back a little bit. Because
Speaker 1: you grew up in New Jersey with Egyptian parents, and
Speaker 1: you said as practicing Muslims. There was a performative element
Speaker 1: that felt like you were living in your own Truman show.
Speaker 1: We've been talking a whole lot about performance. What did
Speaker 1: that look like?
Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember the context in which I said that.
Speaker 2: That does sound like something I said. You're pulling great stuff.
Speaker 2: I like that, you like your words. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 2: past me was wow. You ever worry that you're regressing?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I do? I do?
Speaker 2: Is that regress easy?
Speaker 1: We do fifty two a year, so I have a
Speaker 1: shot at redemption every week.
Speaker 2: This one's a progress episode.
Speaker 1: We're finding it.
Speaker 2: I feel it. Yeah, your progress is in how I
Speaker 2: answer these questions.
Speaker 1: And your progress.
Speaker 2: This podcast bears nothing on my progress. Oh really, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm just I've already had a good time, like coming in.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, this is in the wind column. Yeah, most
Speaker 2: of the do with the pop tarts. The pop tarts.
Speaker 2: I like the lighting in here. It's nice, you're nice,
Speaker 2: the ac is good. I'm good.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I won. Sounds like Trump.
Speaker 2: Honestly, if you didn't look at what he did and
Speaker 2: just you know some of what he said.
Speaker 1: An optimist, I mean, I could say how someone who
Speaker 1: grew up with a photo of Donald Trump in their
Speaker 1: living room as you did, would say something like that,
Speaker 1: do you want to offer contacts with that for people?
Speaker 2: My father, Yeah, he worked at the Plaza hotel for
Speaker 2: over ten years. When he came to the country, he
Speaker 2: just started, you know, he was a bus boy at
Speaker 2: some of he started at the Waldorf Astoria, and it
Speaker 2: was because he spoke Arabic and there were a lot
Speaker 2: of high spending Arab clientele that would come in from
Speaker 2: the Gulf.
Speaker 1: He was previously a travel agent in Cairo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgot, you know my dad. I mean he
Speaker 2: was last week's guest. But yeah, so he started bussing
Speaker 2: and then he kind of went over to the Plaza
Speaker 2: and he was doing that too, and then eventually became
Speaker 2: a manager of all the food and beverage and all
Speaker 2: their like banquet halls and all that stuff. And so
Speaker 2: he do the Trump kids birthdays. I'm working late tonight.
Speaker 2: It's you know, Eric's birthday. You know that, you know,
Speaker 2: And at the time wasn't bad or anything. It was
Speaker 2: just this is just, you know, a guy my dad
Speaker 2: works with. But I think part of what we got
Speaker 2: to explore in the first season, which was something that
Speaker 2: was very true in my life, just that fear of
Speaker 2: being a kid and being so close and at the
Speaker 2: time my dad worked in the city when nine to
Speaker 2: eleven happened. And I think part of what we got
Speaker 2: to do as a show, and part of what even
Speaker 2: other things that I continue to explore, is just the
Speaker 2: impact of that time for the psyche of a kid,
Speaker 2: especially a kid who felt implicated.
Speaker 1: Is that how you felt?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did, because you're looking at a screen on
Speaker 2: TV and you're seeing these people who've done horrible things,
Speaker 2: and you know, one of them's Egyptian, the other ones this,
Speaker 2: the other one's that, and they have names that tell
Speaker 2: like people in my family and look like people that
Speaker 2: are in my you know, so, and that's the only
Speaker 2: reference point in any media. Was that right? And then
Speaker 2: you start to have this self doubt trickle in where
Speaker 2: I always felt like I had something to hide even
Speaker 2: though there wasn't anything to hide. And then I also
Speaker 2: didn't get to fully digest my own background from you know,
Speaker 2: like a pure context or even an inquisitive, curious context.
Speaker 2: It's all in the defensive, you know, So everything that
Speaker 2: I know is just about defending myself at that time,
Speaker 2: it's not a curious exploration and an understanding. And I
Speaker 2: see this in a lot of people of my generation,
Speaker 2: where it's like now we're in our thirties and only
Speaker 2: just now we're really getting into our faith in our
Speaker 2: background from like a more curious place.
Speaker 1: Specifically, do you remember a moment where you can kind
Speaker 1: of acutely remember playing defense as a kid?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean some of it is in the episode
Speaker 2: we made in the show, Just like I remember really
Speaker 2: being in a history class as a middle schooler and
Speaker 2: pointing to a map and really trying to put Egypt
Speaker 2: in Africa, you know, and just say, wholeheartedly, straight faced
Speaker 2: saying I'm African, you know, and then leaving and knowing
Speaker 2: I'm not really African. I know, I'm not African, you know,
Speaker 2: and being in that place. But for me, the whole
Speaker 2: thing is I'm never going to be someone who sits
Speaker 2: in and p tens like horrible things happened to me,
Speaker 2: you know, or we experienced hate crimes on a big level,
Speaker 2: or something like that. And it's why in making the show,
Speaker 2: I never try to paint the family or the Romi
Speaker 2: character as victims because I'm not in a position to
Speaker 2: say I'm a victim, but I am in a place
Speaker 2: to say, oh, you know, there are things that really
Speaker 2: happened here that, oh, maybe I could make an offering
Speaker 2: to unpack comedically. But it was a mind fuck the
Speaker 2: whole time. It took me a long time to even
Speaker 2: admit that.
Speaker 1: So if it was difficult to explore or even examine
Speaker 1: parts of yourself at home, I wonder when high school
Speaker 1: rolls around, you take this TV production class. Was making
Speaker 1: videos in that class a way of examining and exploring
Speaker 1: parts of yourself that you previously weren't able to do.
Speaker 2: You know, I felt this when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: even before I went to high school. The first thing
Speaker 2: I ever saved up for with my post Ramadana eid
Speaker 2: money was a video camera, and I loved that. I
Speaker 2: remember being a kid and just going around the whole
Speaker 2: town and my street and I would film things, and
Speaker 2: then we'd go visit my grandparents and Queen's and they
Speaker 2: had a computer that had a Windows Movie Maker. It'd
Speaker 2: be a whole day, we'd be there, a whole weekend,
Speaker 2: and I would just be in there on that computer
Speaker 2: editing things that I shot and then by the time
Speaker 2: I got to high school there were more tools to
Speaker 2: do that. Then that became short films and that kind
Speaker 2: of thing, and then I started to write. I was
Speaker 2: writing those, and then I started to be in them,
Speaker 2: and so it was a big incubator. And my buddy
Speaker 2: Jonathan Braylock, who I still work with a lot, but
Speaker 2: then my buddy Steve Way who's on our show, we
Speaker 2: did a lot together in that period, and I think
Speaker 2: we kind of started to find a lot of things
Speaker 2: that we were just making each other laugh. And then
Speaker 2: years later we got to make the show together.
Speaker 1: Well, we are going to watch one of those films
Speaker 1: that appeared on a YouTube comedy channel called Inside Joe Films.
Speaker 1: Now for the context around this period, you're a freshman
Speaker 1: in college at Rutgers, nineteen years old, working part time
Speaker 1: at an apple store in the meatpacking district, Yes, attending
Speaker 1: acting classes at Williams Prestudio. Once those classes ended, you
Speaker 1: would run to the train station, hop on, get home
Speaker 1: by twelve thirty one o'clock and fall asleep. That process
Speaker 1: is like wash rints and repeat, Yes, And it's in
Speaker 1: that wash rints process that you wake up one morning,
Speaker 1: brush your teeth and notice a minty saliva dribble running
Speaker 1: down your chin, which I think happened to me this morning,
Speaker 1: by the way, But what happened there.
Speaker 2: I got Bell's palsy. The level of research is unbelievable.
Speaker 2: I'm starting to think you knew to bring these mini
Speaker 2: pop tarts just based on something I had said at
Speaker 2: some point. Yeah, that was a big life changer for
Speaker 2: me because I was doing everything, you know, and I
Speaker 2: was going to college in the morning. Then I'd go
Speaker 2: work at the Apple store, and then I go to
Speaker 2: acting class. Then I do an improv sat a night
Speaker 2: or a sketch or whatever, and then I'd get home
Speaker 2: really late. I was truly bringing myself out at a
Speaker 2: pretty young age. Then this thing stopped me and I said, Okay,
Speaker 2: you know, I can't move my face. It's weird. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it goes away after a few days, they'll go it
Speaker 2: will be a few days, or be a few weeks,
Speaker 2: or it'll be a few months, or it'll be a year.
Speaker 2: And if it's more than a year, it just might
Speaker 2: be how your face is where half your face just
Speaker 2: doesn't work. You can't even blink. I had to wear
Speaker 2: an eyepatch at night because my eye would otherwise dry out.
Speaker 2: And I had it for six months. This was my
Speaker 2: biggest at the time bargain with God, which was, Okay,
Speaker 2: if this gets better, I'm going to drop out of school.
Speaker 2: All I'm gonna do is I'm going to work on acting.
Speaker 2: If it doesn't get better, I will accept it, and
Speaker 2: I will continue school, and I'll drop out of acting
Speaker 2: school and I'm just become a lawyer, you know. So
Speaker 2: I was really dramatic about it, and it made it
Speaker 2: a real inflection point for me to say, Okay, if
Speaker 2: I heal from this, I'm actually going to free myself
Speaker 2: from trying to do everything and trying to please everybody.
Speaker 2: And I was in that place where I was enjoying before,
Speaker 2: but I really wanted, you know, to do right by again.
Speaker 2: You know, my parents made this gamble. I didn't know
Speaker 2: anyone who's succeeded in comedy. You know. How do I
Speaker 2: go home and tell my dad, like, thank you for
Speaker 2: not seeing your parents for a majority of your life,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to perform at a theater. But then
Speaker 2: this thing happened and I said, life's too short. I
Speaker 2: got to just do this for me. So it created
Speaker 2: that well, why.
Speaker 1: Don't we take a look at you in that fork
Speaker 1: in the Road moment where you turned Bell's Palsy into
Speaker 1: a short film aptly titled Bell's Paulsy.
Speaker 2: Who there's Waddy? We got it to Chicago Sketch Fest.
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: No, not? What what's wrong with your face? John? I
Speaker 2: told you on the phone, I have Bell's palsy. We
Speaker 2: got to come up with a plan. No, there's no plan.
Speaker 2: We just need to I got.
Speaker 1: This is great, man. You can't even tell.
Speaker 2: But you know Halloween's over it tonight. Right, It's okay, man,
Speaker 2: I've got a plan.
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Three? Two?
Speaker 1: What happening yet?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Come on?
Speaker 2: What you still have Bell's palsy? John? I told you
Speaker 2: that the changing of the Year wouldn't magically heal it.
Speaker 2: It was my Christmas resolution. That's sweet. I know I
Speaker 2: have not watched that for ten years.
Speaker 1: How does that feel watching that a decade later?
Speaker 2: It's cool that we did it.
Speaker 1: It's not that bad. I was like, this should be
Speaker 1: a lot worse.
Speaker 2: Right, I watched one of the sketches we did. I
Speaker 2: was getting ready to be like this is gonna really suck.
Speaker 2: And then I went back and I was like it
Speaker 2: doesn't really suck.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, no, they're all tightly edited.
Speaker 2: It actually means a lot, because that's when you work
Speaker 2: with a network, they always edit you down, you know,
Speaker 2: But we had no network. Man, we edited ourselves down here.
Speaker 2: I take pride in that. You know, Wow, we had
Speaker 2: that down. You know. Maybe the writing wasn't always there,
Speaker 2: maybe we were figuring it out, figuring out our voice,
Speaker 2: but we edited.
Speaker 1: Your commitment to editing, to acting, to making these it
Speaker 1: is what propelled you forward and brought you to Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: Did you make that call to come here at like
Speaker 1: three in the morning at a place called the Candlewick Diner?
Speaker 1: Because it seems like you love making big decisions and diners,
Speaker 1: And I love diners. I think you love them more
Speaker 1: than me and Michael Mann, who I thought loved them
Speaker 1: the most based on every film he's made.
Speaker 2: I love diners. Sometimes I feel like my whole life's
Speaker 2: happened in a diner.
Speaker 1: What happens to you in there? Is it just like
Speaker 1: the prices? Is it the good?
Speaker 2: In a Jersey diner? They are encouraging you to loiter
Speaker 2: and I think that was really nice to have. I
Speaker 2: definitely edited some of those sketches. Would I would go
Speaker 2: plug in at a diner for sure?
Speaker 1: Did you make your decision to come to LA at
Speaker 1: one of those?
Speaker 2: It was kind of made for me because I booked
Speaker 2: this you know show on Niket night, and I actually
Speaker 2: was reminiscing about this the other day because it was funny.
Speaker 2: I got, you know, a call from my manager at
Speaker 2: the time, and he said, listen, if you can fly
Speaker 2: yourself out to LA they want you to meet do
Speaker 2: this producer session. Right for anyone who doesn't know, it's
Speaker 2: you meet producers and then if producers like you, you
Speaker 2: test with the network. And if you test with the network,
Speaker 2: they pay for your flight. But the producer session, you
Speaker 2: don't get that. And so I remember looking at my
Speaker 2: bank account I got this call. I was at Apple,
Speaker 2: I had just dropped out of school. I looked up
Speaker 2: ticket prices, I looked at how much money I had.
Speaker 2: I went, I logged into my like Wacovia bank app
Speaker 2: at the time, and Wacovia famously got acquired by Wells Fargo.
Speaker 2: So this is just anyone who's like really into the economy.
Speaker 2: That's most of our listeners, I think a lot of people, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: So Wakovia. So I go to my Wacovia, I type
Speaker 2: in my username, my password. I look at the amount
Speaker 2: of money.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a virus.
Speaker 2: It honestly really does have I don't know, like coronavirus. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I picked you know, she didn't she didn't. Of course
Speaker 2: we are. She didn't tell me. This is staying it.
Speaker 1: You do like it.
Speaker 2: I love editing, and I'm telling you the Wakcovia a
Speaker 2: bit has to stay in. I log into my Wacovia,
Speaker 2: I look how much money I have. I look how
Speaker 2: much a plane ticket is. The disparity between what it
Speaker 2: will cost to get me there and what I have
Speaker 2: is one hundred fifty dollars. It's under three hundred. It's tight.
Speaker 2: But at the time three hundred you know you're eating,
Speaker 2: you know, for a couple of days. But at the time,
Speaker 2: I go, okay, I'm gonna do this. My goal was
Speaker 2: not to get the show. It was to test because
Speaker 2: I thought if I could test for the network, at
Speaker 2: least I know they'll get me a hotel and they'll
Speaker 2: get me the flight back. I couldn't them that I'd
Speaker 2: actually book it because it just felt so insane. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so I ended up going and I test and I
Speaker 2: was like, great, they got my flight back. They put
Speaker 2: me in a hotel. I literally go from my friend
Speaker 2: Lena's couch to getting a hotel over on my Hollywood
Speaker 2: and Vine. I'm like, this is big. I'm by the
Speaker 2: Chinese Theater, I'm hanging out, I'm going to the Wax Museum.
Speaker 2: I'm living life.
Speaker 1: And then I booked the role and we're like a
Speaker 1: couple of blocks from there.
Speaker 2: Dude, every time I drive by, and I lived here
Speaker 2: for ten years, every time I drive by, I go, Man,
Speaker 2: remember that trip. It's a big shift. You know. It's
Speaker 2: across the country, which is almost like going to a
Speaker 2: different country. And I was living at home and then
Speaker 2: suddenly I'm living by myself. It's actually still the biggest
Speaker 2: thing that's ever happened to me in my entire life.
Speaker 3: After the break more from Robbie Yusuf.
Speaker 1: So you move here for this show called Seed Dad Run. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're living in an apartment in Koreatown on sixth and
Speaker 1: Saint Andrew Place.
Speaker 2: Yes, when you get.
Speaker 1: This show, Yeah, I was thinking, because like you know,
Speaker 1: this writer strike is upon us right now. Yeah, will
Speaker 1: you be able to stay afloat through seed Dad Run residuals.
Speaker 2: That and that's the question. Whatever deal we made on
Speaker 2: that was part of an issue that the WGA had
Speaker 2: because it was like such a bad type of deal.
Speaker 2: It was a residualist deal actually, and it's the kind
Speaker 2: of thing that they're trying to get to the bottom of.
Speaker 2: So I would say the lineage of see Dad Run
Speaker 2: is very directly tied to what the guild is fighting
Speaker 2: for now, you know, over ten years later, and so
Speaker 2: you could see that run to the current strike that
Speaker 2: is upon us. So that that's a really clear line
Speaker 2: that not a lot of people are drawing. I think
Speaker 2: if you had a yarn board, it's a big one.
Speaker 1: And it's like, it's kind of good that we're finally
Speaker 1: drawing it, that we're finally making the connection that's always
Speaker 1: been there.
Speaker 2: It's always been there. It's been unsaid, it's been awkward,
Speaker 2: it's been kind of one of those Hollywood things no
Speaker 2: one wants me to talk about. Yeah, yeah, should we
Speaker 2: And we're there to wow, you know this is it's
Speaker 2: this is Cee Sam Run. You know this is big.
Speaker 2: I stand by that joke and that's what let's keep
Speaker 2: it in the cut. I stand by it. It is
Speaker 2: it's not quite Wakovia level, but it's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I don't feel sick after it, unlike Wacoba.
Speaker 1: One of your co stars on See Dad Run as
Speaker 1: an Oakland comedian named Mark Curry. Yes, he decides to
Speaker 1: take you on the road where you open for him.
Speaker 1: Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Now there's one night in particular, you're at a hotel
Speaker 1: and you're by yourself in your room and it sounds like,
Speaker 1: I think, because you just bombed that you kind of
Speaker 1: lean into and start to discover your comedic voice as
Speaker 1: a stand up. Is that right?
Speaker 2: I bombed so bad that the Miami Improv booked another
Speaker 2: comedian for the next night because I did so poorly
Speaker 2: the night before. You know, I was supposed to do
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes and then I did it. But then the
Speaker 2: next night they said, hey, you only need to do
Speaker 2: five tonight. You know, we got someone else to do
Speaker 2: in between the nights. I had this thing. I didn't
Speaker 2: know anyone in the city. I was so embarrassed. I
Speaker 2: was so ashamed. And then I go into the hotel
Speaker 2: and I completely just forced myself to say, Okay, I
Speaker 2: don't want to feel that again, and I wrote a
Speaker 2: lot that night, and then the next night I came
Speaker 2: in and even though they had cut my time, like
Speaker 2: my five was really on it. But I remember the
Speaker 2: club owner really being like, where was that last night?
Speaker 2: And I just said jet lag and then I walked
Speaker 2: away kind of confidently.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you made a kind of pivot and
Speaker 1: the work. What do you think you were moving towards?
Speaker 2: It was just digging deeper. It was playing a different
Speaker 2: kind of room, you know I was doing. I started
Speaker 2: doing stand up on I moved to La you know,
Speaker 2: I'm doing like Silver Lake rooms Burbank, these kind of
Speaker 2: different kind of demographics as opposed to when you go
Speaker 2: to a Mark Curry show, and it's like I could
Speaker 2: feel this thing of what's your essence? As opposed to
Speaker 2: some of these smaller rooms I was starting to stand
Speaker 2: up in. It was just do you have a witty idea?
Speaker 2: These rooms they were like, dude, are you funny? Are
Speaker 2: you not funny? Because you're not funny. We'll just talk
Speaker 2: until Mark comes out. It wouldn't even be like I
Speaker 2: bombed and it was silent. They would just watch me
Speaker 2: for two minutes and then go anyway, so and then
Speaker 2: just conversations start full full conversations are happening while you
Speaker 2: doing stand up, and so immediately I had to put
Speaker 2: myself in a position of how do you hold attention
Speaker 2: and also realizing the value of having people's attention, don't
Speaker 2: waste it, really offer them something. So I just dug
Speaker 2: much deeper, and I had to move through a lot
Speaker 2: of fear, and it was really nice to not be
Speaker 2: in a city where I knew anyone. Those early road
Speaker 2: dates were just really good for that. You know, you
Speaker 2: don't know anyone, so just go to the hotel room
Speaker 2: and write and get better.
Speaker 1: But it essentially all came back to essence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, any useful diversion from someone's attention to say watch this,
Speaker 2: listen to this, do whatever. I take very seriously, and
Speaker 2: I say, well, I better be providing a unique essence
Speaker 2: of something for them. If I'm gonna ask them to
Speaker 2: take an hour to watch my special thirty minutes to
Speaker 2: watch an episode like why why am I asking you
Speaker 2: to not talk to your family for thirty minutes? This
Speaker 2: better be worth it.
Speaker 1: Well, then I think we should probably take a look
Speaker 1: at what may be the earliest televised example of you
Speaker 1: stepping into and finding your essence, which comes in twenty
Speaker 1: seventeen when you made your late night debut on The
Speaker 1: Colbert Show. Yeah, the performance did come on the heels
Speaker 1: of Trump's Muslim ban.
Speaker 2: I still think we're gonna be okay. I really do,
Speaker 2: because I believe in God. Like God, God, not yoga.
Speaker 2: But and I know that's a weird thing to say.
Speaker 2: I get it. You know, religious culture can be crazy.
Speaker 2: I don't agree with all of it. I grew up
Speaker 2: in a town where I watched my gay friends struggle
Speaker 2: to come out to the religious community, and now I
Speaker 2: live in la where I'm a religious person struggling to
Speaker 2: come out to the gay community and tell them what
Speaker 2: I think. They're just like, you believe in God, Dude,
Speaker 2: that's so gay. I just for me, God is hope
Speaker 2: that there's more to life than what's in front of us.
Speaker 2: You know that even if things seem impossible, there's still
Speaker 2: a chance that it could be okay. And I'm not
Speaker 2: trying to be preachy. I'm really not. Like. All I'm
Speaker 2: trying to say is just just submit to Islam because
Speaker 2: it's the truth and that's the only way you'll be saved. Seriously,
Speaker 2: that's the only way. That was six years ago. Now
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm so much younger there in twenty six. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I still can't believe that they let me say that
Speaker 2: on TV too, because that was one where the producers
Speaker 2: were like, I remember just getting this call because they
Speaker 2: saw the transcript of the set and like, so, yeah,
Speaker 2: so you're trying to say, you're trying to end the
Speaker 2: clip with submit to Islam, and I remember I had
Speaker 2: to like bring them out to a show to say no, no,
Speaker 2: it's a bit it ties to you know, what's happening.
Speaker 2: And it's one of my favorite kind of bits because
Speaker 2: it's the kind of bit where if you are kind
Speaker 2: of just an open minded i'll say, comedy fan that
Speaker 2: skews liberal on a certain level, you watch that and
Speaker 2: you go, that's really funny, Like he's playing on this
Speaker 2: fear that everyone has. If you're conservative, you're like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, look at this. It's the Muslim agenda. And
Speaker 2: if you're Muslim, you're like, nice, it's the Muslim agenda,
Speaker 2: you know. Like so it kind of hiss all three buckets,
Speaker 2: which is what I you know, is kind of my favorite.
Speaker 2: You know, Lane to be in.
Speaker 1: You're always thinking about those three buckets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want them all to be happy, which sounds
Speaker 2: like an insane way to live. It does sometimes I feel,
Speaker 2: you know, insane, insane, and I know you feel it too.
Speaker 2: Don't drag me in of yourself, dude, come on, you do.
Speaker 1: Oh you have me at Wacovia.
Speaker 2: This is such a good bit. That bit comes from
Speaker 2: pain and shame. You know, you know I like that.
Speaker 1: You know that's good.
Speaker 2: I know, dude.
Speaker 1: You can hear it in my voice.
Speaker 2: Yes, man, stuff people can't even see on the podcast.
Speaker 2: It's a body language thing. Yeah, but oh wow, seeing
Speaker 2: that's crazy. I haven't watched that.
Speaker 1: And looking back at that clip, it feels like a
Speaker 1: clear bridge between your early comedy and the comedy that
Speaker 1: would inform the pilot of Ronie.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I did that Nick show, and then I was
Speaker 2: doing the Road with Mark, and I remember that show
Speaker 2: ending and thinking, okay, cool, I was on a show,
Speaker 2: and now that I've been on a show, I'm going
Speaker 2: to be on other shows. I'm gonna act. And it
Speaker 2: never happened. I was so bad at auditioning or I
Speaker 2: would get really anxious, but then I would also feel
Speaker 2: like nothing quite fit me. You know, I would go
Speaker 2: in and they'd be like, you're not the leading guy,
Speaker 2: You're not exactly the nerd. Well, I want you to
Speaker 2: play the brown guy. But they didn't understand the reference
Speaker 2: in which they were writing it. They would write something
Speaker 2: that was for someone who was Indian or Pakistani and
Speaker 2: then they'd say, oh, you're kind of you know, there
Speaker 2: was no real So there was this thing where the
Speaker 2: acting thing just wasn't hitting, and I almost forgot for
Speaker 2: a period that I knew how to make my own
Speaker 2: things because I just got so into the acting world.
Speaker 2: And then I said, hold up, I got, you know,
Speaker 2: this gift of an acting job. But that's over and
Speaker 2: now I got to go back to digging into what
Speaker 2: it is I really want to say and what I
Speaker 2: want to do. And so there was this period of
Speaker 2: just doing stand up for the first time in a
Speaker 2: serious way. It was like three years straight where it's
Speaker 2: just I'm doing stand up every night. I'm figuring out
Speaker 2: what the next chapter of my life is going to be.
Speaker 2: My first ever open mic in LA was with my
Speaker 2: buddy Ari Kcher. He'd been working on Draw Carmichael's show
Speaker 2: and I had been opening for Drod. I'd also been
Speaker 2: opening for Mo who you know we made you know
Speaker 2: his show together now and so in that time I
Speaker 2: was just doing a bunch of sets with them, But
Speaker 2: then Ari and I kind of started talking about, Okay.
Speaker 1: Cool, let's do the show. It was a really productive
Speaker 1: time from there. You make the show at premieres in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, you win a Golden Globe in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: But throughout the show's run it's been four years now,
Speaker 1: a whole lot of people have compared Ramy to programs
Speaker 1: like Louis Master of None, Fleabag. But I want to
Speaker 1: talk about the influence of Larry David and curb your
Speaker 1: enthusiasm because he said once there's a twin chip between
Speaker 1: Jewish humor and Muslim humor. What is that?
Speaker 2: It's like an inherent sarcasm, an inherent self deprecation. You know,
Speaker 2: it really hit me just how not celebrating Christmas really
Speaker 2: put me so closely intertwined with my Jewish friends. It's
Speaker 2: you're really missing out on this massive human event. You
Speaker 2: feel like a five year old adult because everyone believes
Speaker 2: in magic, and you're like, dude, this is just a
Speaker 2: ploy for Macy's to sell stuff. In December, you know,
Speaker 2: and you're looking at your Jewish friends and they're the
Speaker 2: only other ones who know. And so there's something about
Speaker 2: that in America where I feel, oh man, we're the
Speaker 2: only ones who really get each other here because we
Speaker 2: missed out this childhood window of daydreaming about Santa. We're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that dude wouldn't fit down the chimney. And you got
Speaker 2: a bunch of kids who are like, of course he
Speaker 2: fits because of the you know what, and you're just like,
Speaker 2: you guys are brainwashed. It creates something very early on
Speaker 2: that I've found to be at the heart of our humor,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, yeah, look, Larry's just, I think
Speaker 2: the funniest and he's so honest to what he thinks
Speaker 2: in his perspective. And it's why I always think Muslims
Speaker 2: and Arabs are some of the funniest people because they're
Speaker 2: so stay fast, whether in what they believe or what
Speaker 2: they think. They're not going to move off it. And
Speaker 2: that's comedy to me. And when you have four people
Speaker 2: in a room who all think that way, it's just
Speaker 2: so much certainty. It's just hilarious. It's just so funny.
Speaker 2: I feel that's what's really funny about Larry. He's so
Speaker 2: certain despite being completely wrong, and that's.
Speaker 1: So wronging, and a whole lot of situations, like thinking
Speaker 1: back to that scene we started with at the beginning
Speaker 1: of this conversation, You're on a tender like date, but
Speaker 1: he's certain that he's the best she can do.
Speaker 2: The under the occupation, under the occupation. Yeah, that is
Speaker 2: definitely something that is his own kind of probably Larry
Speaker 2: david Ish moment.
Speaker 1: It is reminiscent of Curb Your Enthusiasm, because there are
Speaker 1: so many moments in that show, like in Rommie where
Speaker 1: you're sitting there going, oh my god, dude, will he
Speaker 1: just shop talking? Okay, but hold on, we're talking about
Speaker 1: the comedy of this show. But so much of the
Speaker 1: writing and the dialogue around Robby is about representation, what
Speaker 1: this show means in this moment and what it tells
Speaker 1: us about X people, which I've always found to be
Speaker 1: sort of reductive and not terribly interesting. So I want
Speaker 1: to ask about something more specific, which is this quote
Speaker 1: you have. You said, my work is not about showing
Speaker 1: that we're all the same. It's actually about highlighting the differences,
Speaker 1: because we're not all the same, but we're all trying
Speaker 1: in a similar way, and we're all feeling in a
Speaker 1: similar way regardless of those differences.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, I stand by it even more so
Speaker 2: because I think the level of specificity that we aim
Speaker 2: for is not with the intention of creating a flag
Speaker 2: to represent It's just the thing that me and the
Speaker 2: people who make the show want to do with this specific,
Speaker 2: fixed set of characters, and it's not really meant to
Speaker 2: be wholly representative of almost anyone, even if you get
Speaker 2: really subsecty, you know what I mean. I've always felt
Speaker 2: like the show has a right to exist outside of
Speaker 2: that framing, because then it allows it to be something
Speaker 2: that is an exploration in its own tone, in its
Speaker 2: own thing, and not have to fit into Hey, Muslims,
Speaker 2: we've got a show for you, because that puts us
Speaker 2: in an impossible position that is also an inaccurate one.
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I'm not interested in saying we're all
Speaker 2: the same, like I'm more in favor of saying no, no,
Speaker 2: we're different. But we have the same debts, we have
Speaker 2: the same stresses, we have the same desires, even though
Speaker 2: the way we approach them, or the tools we have
Speaker 2: or the belief systems we have look different, you know,
Speaker 2: and so it's like, yes, on a level here, I'm
Speaker 2: saying something has been done to say that people who
Speaker 2: live in the Middle East are not human, you know.
Speaker 2: So on a level that has been done through a
Speaker 2: lot of the media that's happened over the last thirty years,
Speaker 2: there's been a dehumanization. So in terms of where Rami
Speaker 2: falls into the realm of representation, it probably mainly checks
Speaker 2: the box of if you thought we weren't human beings,
Speaker 2: we are. But if I'm trying to tell you anything
Speaker 2: other than that, it's going to fall short. I'm not
Speaker 2: trying to say this is what Muslims are like all over.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to say that I'm just like you.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to say whatever. But I'm trying to
Speaker 2: say the process of surviving, in the process of living
Speaker 2: and being all of that is really similar. And so
Speaker 2: the monoculture of just us, we're all the same. It's
Speaker 2: well intentioned, but it really falls short. And then sometimes
Speaker 2: the goal of what that does. That's where I see
Speaker 2: the effects of colonialism still happening. And you know those
Speaker 2: countries in the Middle East where you know you'll go
Speaker 2: into a restaurant and they only have a menu in English.
Speaker 2: If you don't read English, don't even be These are
Speaker 2: the kinds of things we've been kind of led to
Speaker 2: believe in our own culture because the storytelling and the
Speaker 2: narrative of what American culture is so strong. And I'm
Speaker 2: not saying it's all bad. I mean I love that
Speaker 2: I grew up here, and part of loving growing up
Speaker 2: here is getting to talk about all the baggage that
Speaker 2: comes with that and how that influences everyone everywhere, and
Speaker 2: what's fun about making these shows? And you know, now
Speaker 2: we're you know, we're making more shows and we're doing
Speaker 2: other things that I've been able to do with my
Speaker 2: production company as it's grown out of making Rami and
Speaker 2: making other things, is like, we just get to show
Speaker 2: so many different slices of that. And I think representation
Speaker 2: is not one show. It's like thirty you know, it's movies.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of artists getting to try and getting
Speaker 2: to fail and getting to mess up and getting to
Speaker 2: be imperfect and getting to succeed. That is more so
Speaker 2: what I think that means as opposed to you know,
Speaker 2: anything one season of television or even three could do.
Speaker 1: That basically squares away the macro conversation as we leave,
Speaker 1: I want to bring it back to you as a
Speaker 1: person because again that episode that we've been interrogating and
Speaker 1: circling over and over again, episode two, what happens in
Speaker 1: the last ten fifteen minutes involves you trying to get
Speaker 1: past the border, having your coat stolen. Inside the coat
Speaker 1: was your passport. These preteens took it in part because
Speaker 1: you stole their bike, and you have this quote you said,
Speaker 1: I think what happens with this kid, the kid who
Speaker 1: stole your coat boomerangs for Rami and becomes this ever
Speaker 1: present haunting of what happened and is for me very
Speaker 1: symbolic of the manifestation of guilt that I just feel
Speaker 1: as a person all the time. I guess I want
Speaker 1: to sit with that because at thirty two, having just
Speaker 1: finished Ramadan and where you've been thinking about where you
Speaker 1: stand and where you are and where you want to go.
Speaker 1: That guilt that you feel are you still working through that?
Speaker 1: Is that still fueling a lot of the work and
Speaker 1: who you are at this moment.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think about the cost of living all the time,
Speaker 2: just what it costs for us to have everything we
Speaker 2: want all the time. Right, there are people in the
Speaker 2: margins of this country that are, you know, deeply suffering
Speaker 2: in ways that people in other parts of the world aren't.
Speaker 2: Then we've you know, lived between New York and la
Speaker 2: where you can walk into a supermarket and get whatever
Speaker 2: you want all the time, you walk into a clothing
Speaker 2: store and get whatever you want all the time. I'm
Speaker 2: willing to bet a lot of the people who listen
Speaker 2: to Talk Easy are able to afford some of those things,
Speaker 2: and that comes at a cost that's way beyond that,
Speaker 2: you know, when I look at the way the episode ends,
Speaker 2: haunts him the whole season because this character, for sure,
Speaker 2: is talking about his American passport and he's being very
Speaker 2: ignorant in how he's doing it. And then in order
Speaker 2: to fight for his privilege, someone in that episode directly
Speaker 2: suffers and continue to and he kind of goes off
Speaker 2: and he's trying to live his own life and he's
Speaker 2: spiraling in this way and then realizing, oh man, you know,
Speaker 2: and then it kind of comes to a moment at
Speaker 2: the end of the season where he tries to do
Speaker 2: something towards that debt, even if it's you know, successful
Speaker 2: or not. Isn't even the point is he addresses it,
Speaker 2: and you know, I think there were a lot of
Speaker 2: people who saw only that episode and didn't finish the season,
Speaker 2: and we're really upset by it. You know, they're really
Speaker 2: upset by what happened. I think part of that too,
Speaker 2: even going back to the representation conversation, when there's so
Speaker 2: little that even touches something like Palestine, I understand those sensitivities,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's our stab, it's our try, and
Speaker 2: it's something that we made with like a Palestinian crew
Speaker 2: and palsing director who really they understood the vision for
Speaker 2: the whole season because we're asking people to watch ten episodes,
Speaker 2: not just the first two. We're asking people to be
Speaker 2: invested in what this means for a character. And so
Speaker 2: what it was trying to get at for me is
Speaker 2: that feeling of sometimes merely the way that you're living
Speaker 2: has a cost that you never have to look at.
Speaker 2: And if that is inspiring for me to like figure
Speaker 2: out anything I could do in my own at times
Speaker 2: very minimal position in the scheme of the world, or
Speaker 2: if at any times I have windows or shots to
Speaker 2: talk about things in a bigger way, then I can't
Speaker 2: feel good about that because I need to continue to
Speaker 2: try and be at least somewhat part of making that
Speaker 2: a little bit better. And it's funny you guys say
Speaker 2: it out loud and yeah, you sound it sounds crazy,
Speaker 2: or it sounds just incredibly I don't know. I don't
Speaker 2: know what it sounds like, but it.
Speaker 1: Sounds like you listen to what your uncle told you
Speaker 1: as a kid. He said, it's the humans job to
Speaker 1: give back more than what they take.
Speaker 2: That's one of his good quotes. That's a great quote.
Speaker 2: I think about that a lot.
Speaker 1: It's funny we keep circling around this idea of what
Speaker 1: it means to have a voice in this moment while
Speaker 1: not being overly delusional about its power. But I do
Speaker 1: want to know if you think your work in some
Speaker 1: ways is in line with the generations that came before you,
Speaker 1: because it seems to me that it feels like an
Speaker 1: amalgamation of the work your family has done, which includes
Speaker 1: your grandfather who was an interpreter for the Arab League
Speaker 1: and the United Nations. Then your father, as we mentioned
Speaker 1: last week's guests, the travel agent in Cairo who would
Speaker 1: show Americans the Pyramids and so in thinking about being
Speaker 1: an actor, a writer, director, the creator of this production company,
Speaker 1: Cairo Cowboy. Do you feel like your work is a
Speaker 1: kind of amalgamation of both interpreter and travel guide?
Speaker 2: Wow, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1: The funniest answer just be like now.
Speaker 2: You know it's a soft no, but no, it's beautiful
Speaker 2: to hear it in that context. I think for me,
Speaker 2: I really respect people's time. You know, you only have
Speaker 2: a half an hour to watch them. You know, you
Speaker 2: have such a busy life when you watch anything that
Speaker 2: I say, I'm not in a position to give you
Speaker 2: hard facts about anything. It's truly it's just comedy, you know.
Speaker 2: But what I hope I'm able to do is just
Speaker 2: bring people closer to some of their own human questions.
Speaker 2: So a lot of what I'm doing in anything I'm
Speaker 2: doing is openly offering and work shopping the stuff that
Speaker 2: is going on in my head or in my heart,
Speaker 2: or that I wonder about. I'm open to do that
Speaker 2: in as nakeative a way as I know how to,
Speaker 2: And the hope is maybe that inspires a conversation you
Speaker 2: weren't going to have with someone in your family. And
Speaker 2: I think, especially growing up in a few different communities,
Speaker 2: not even just you know the air of a Muslim community,
Speaker 2: but a few different communities where it was hard to
Speaker 2: talk about certain vulnerable things. My hope is that you know,
Speaker 2: me asking my questions, me doing my workshopping, me finding
Speaker 2: the funny patterns, and me also failing sometimes in how
Speaker 2: I do that and other times succeeding in how I
Speaker 2: do that is an offering that helps digest some things
Speaker 2: that are not digestible. Then I feel, in my own
Speaker 2: little corner of what we're all kind of chipping in
Speaker 2: to try to do, I'm doing something you know.
Speaker 1: Well, Then my last question here, if we ever like
Speaker 1: listen back to those or do this again, I'll be back. Okay,
Speaker 1: So when we do this again, Yes, let's have this
Speaker 1: as a time capsule for us at thirty two, recently married.
Speaker 1: What are those questions that you're asking yourself at this moment.
Speaker 1: We don't have to have the answers for them. What
Speaker 1: are those that you want to put on record?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know that I want to put on record
Speaker 2: is just we're really siloed right now. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people are really siloed into their experience, into
Speaker 2: their phone, into things they're doing what I've been thinking
Speaker 2: a lot about is what is community going to look like?
Speaker 2: And how do we bring back being connected in as
Speaker 2: many real life ways as possible? And a lot of
Speaker 2: what I've been thinking about right now is how do
Speaker 2: these stupid jokes and how do these shows you know,
Speaker 2: where we're just giving again workshopping, giving our best stab
Speaker 2: and like trying to get at that you know ethereal it?
Speaker 2: What does that turn into just in terms of people
Speaker 2: getting to feel less lonely. But a lot of what
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about is just, yeah, well, what does
Speaker 2: that actually mean offscreen? What does that actually mean beyond
Speaker 2: asking for people's attention? What happens once you have it?
Speaker 2: And where does that go? I don't think I'm the
Speaker 2: person to lead anyone once I have their attention, But
Speaker 2: it's more like, yeah, how do you what does it
Speaker 2: look like to just turn that into a way where
Speaker 2: where people just get to genuinely feel closer together in
Speaker 2: real life? And I think you know, we've been talking
Speaker 2: a lot about I'm sure you've been talking about in
Speaker 2: your circles a lot about AI and how what we're
Speaker 2: going to see over the next few years is just
Speaker 2: going to be so rapid, and I think that need
Speaker 2: for real life togetherness is going to be at an
Speaker 2: all time high, and so just been trying to figure out,
Speaker 2: you know, what do I need on a personal level.
Speaker 2: But that's a big question.
Speaker 1: You still want to make the show.
Speaker 2: There's a lot I want to make. When we finished
Speaker 2: the first season, I realized what it took to make
Speaker 2: a season of television, and I remember thinking, I would
Speaker 2: love to do this for three or four seasons and
Speaker 2: then put it down for a bit and live some life.
Speaker 2: There's nothing about the story that says you can't take
Speaker 2: off for a while and then come back and say,
Speaker 2: you know, here's where this is at. So I think
Speaker 2: a lot of the decisions I'm making right now is, yeah,
Speaker 2: when does that hiatus come? Is it now? Or are
Speaker 2: we going to do one more? It's probably now.
Speaker 1: Well, look, whenever you put it down, I'll make a
Speaker 1: promise that I'll still be here on the other side
Speaker 1: of it, if it's any consolation. And in terms of
Speaker 1: stupid jokes, boy, we have made so many of them.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they've helped make meaning out of
Speaker 1: this conversation.
Speaker 2: I hope, But I think in the time here, we've
Speaker 2: definitely caught Walkovia.
Speaker 1: Odd.
Speaker 2: I think it's a great ending.
Speaker 1: Brommy Yosef.
Speaker 2: So fun, That's.
Speaker 1: Great, wow, and that's our show. If you enjoyed today's episode,
Speaker 1: be sure to leave us five stars on Spotify, Apple,
Speaker 1: wherever you do your listening. If you want to go
Speaker 1: above and beyond, sharing the program on social media, tagging
Speaker 1: us at talk easypod. Really, all of this helps new
Speaker 1: listeners find the show. I want to give a special
Speaker 1: thanks this week to the teams at Narrative, PR and HBO.
Speaker 1: I also want to thank Eric Sandler, Owen Miller, and
Speaker 1: Sarah Bruger at Pushkin, Lily Salzburg, and of course our guest,
Speaker 1: Rommy Yusef. His new special More Feelings is now available
Speaker 1: on HBO or Max. You can also see Rommy host
Speaker 1: SNL this Saturday, March thirtieth for more episodes. I'd recommend
Speaker 1: listening to our talks with Bill Hayter, Quinn de Brunson,
Speaker 1: Natasha Leone, and Dan Levy. Call them I've hosted SNL.
Speaker 1: If they haven't, they should to hear those and more
Speaker 1: Pushkin podcasts. Listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you like
Speaker 1: to listen. You can also follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.
Speaker 1: At talk Easypod, we make mugs. They come in cream
Speaker 1: or navy. We've also made a record with fran Lebowitz
Speaker 1: a sentence I never thought I'd get to say. To
Speaker 1: get that and more. Visit our website at talk easypod
Speaker 1: dot com, slash shop That's talk easypod dot com slash shop.
Speaker 1: Talk Easy is produced by Caroline Reebok. Our executive producer
Speaker 1: is Jennick Sabravo. Our associate producer is Caitlin Dryden. Today's
Speaker 1: talk was edited by Caitlyn Dryden. I want to say
Speaker 1: a special thanks and goodbye to Caitlin. She has been
Speaker 1: with us for a few years now and she is
Speaker 1: going on to continue making her show. It is called slut.
Speaker 1: If you have not listened to that really ought to,
Speaker 1: you can find that wherever you are listening to this
Speaker 1: Talk Easy would not be what it is today without
Speaker 1: Caitlin and all that she has done. We are going
Speaker 1: to miss her a whole lot here, but I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to see what she makes next with that. Our
Speaker 1: episode was mixed by Andrew Vastola. It was taped at
Speaker 1: Spotify Studios in Los Angeles and Pushkin Industries in New York.
Speaker 1: Our music is by Dylan Peck, our illustrations are by
Speaker 1: Chris Chenow, and graphics are by Ethan Seneca. I also
Speaker 1: want to thank our team at Pushkin. They include Justin Richmond,
Speaker 1: Julia Barton, John Stars, Kerrie Brody, Kira Posey, Jorda McMillan,
Speaker 1: Tara Machado, Justine Lang, Sarah Nix, Malcolm Gladwell, Greta Cohen,
Speaker 1: and Jacob Weisberg. I'm San Fragoso. Thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to Talk Easy. I'll see you back here next week
Speaker 1: with another episode. Until then, stay safe and so long