Speaker 1: Being alone does not mean that I have to experience loneliness.
Speaker 1: I just gave my fear of change more power than
Speaker 1: my fear of data staying the same.
Speaker 2: People would say to me, Sarah, are she so courageous?
Speaker 2: And I said, I wish it was courage it was not.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: No, I'd say, you know, fight or flight, because I'm
Speaker 2: not a runner.
Speaker 3: I'm not a runner.
Speaker 4: Welcome back, Welcome back.
Speaker 1: This is another episode of the Woman Evolved podcast.
Speaker 4: How are you doing?
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. Last week's episode was unhinged.
Speaker 1: I am hinged today. I'm a little bit hinged, not
Speaker 1: fully hinged, but I'm trying to be hinged today. Last
Speaker 1: week's episode was a blast. So many of you all
Speaker 1: came to listen to the podcast for the first time
Speaker 1: from that social media clip in which we talked about
Speaker 1: twerk Gate. I want to be clear because I went
Speaker 1: through the comments and I'm going to turn my phone
Speaker 1: off because I am a profession you know. I went
Speaker 1: through the comments, and I want you to know that
Speaker 1: I was not concerned about being canceled for what I
Speaker 1: said about twerking. I was concerned because I am You know,
Speaker 1: some people when they think pastor and they hear the
Speaker 1: word twork, they say the two shall never meet, and
Speaker 1: yet there they were meeting. And in addition to that,
Speaker 1: I wasn't necessarily saying, you know, don't check on things.
Speaker 1: I was saying, you know, check on things with discretion, wisdom.
Speaker 1: And these aren't the types of conversations that we have often,
Speaker 1: And so I think that I was feeling a little
Speaker 1: bit nervous just about having that conversation, knowing that it
Speaker 1: would be outside of my control what sound bites tap
Speaker 1: into it. But all in all, I think we were,
Speaker 1: you know, mostly on the same page. I hope that
Speaker 1: I helped my goodness out. I really do think that
Speaker 1: what she was asking is basically, how do I still
Speaker 1: continue to show up, enjoy life, be a good person,
Speaker 1: follow Jesus, and pursue righteousness and not feel like somebody's grandmother.
Speaker 1: And I hope we gave her some tools. If you
Speaker 1: are like her and you're wondering how you do that,
Speaker 1: go back and listen to last week's episode, but get
Speaker 1: connected with the woman Evolve community. There are so many
Speaker 1: different types of women who are on a similar journey
Speaker 1: to who you are, some more advanced, maybe some a
Speaker 1: little bit behind. By all of us with the same goal.
Speaker 1: You may be wondering what's the best way to get
Speaker 1: plugged in. You can download the woman Evolve app. On
Speaker 1: the woman Evolve app, we're having conversations about all of
Speaker 1: the things. There are different groups. So if you are
Speaker 1: climbing the corporate ladder and trying to maintain your faith,
Speaker 1: there's a group for that. If you're single and trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how do I find a life that
Speaker 1: continues to be rewarding and fruitful outside of partnership, We've
Speaker 1: got one for that. We've got one from moms and parenting,
Speaker 1: divorced women, grieving women, like whatever it is that you're facing.
Speaker 1: We've tried to have a group that will meet you
Speaker 1: where you are Fitness girlies, and if that doesn't work,
Speaker 1: just get into the major group chat. I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: a woman out there who can identify or at least
Speaker 1: make you feel us alone. So thank you guys for
Speaker 1: all of the comments and the laughs connected to last
Speaker 1: week's episode. How are you doing? How's your week going
Speaker 1: so far? I am you know, I'm on the struggle bus.
Speaker 1: Some of you may be wondering, like, how did everything
Speaker 1: go with a message, Oh, my gosh, God gave me
Speaker 1: something to say, hanging on to that scripture about being
Speaker 1: about Jesus always causing us to triumph and leaving the
Speaker 1: fragrance of Him wherever we go. Really, just it came
Speaker 1: through for me because I have to tell you, I
Speaker 1: don't know that I have preached three times in one week.
Speaker 4: Ever.
Speaker 1: If I have, it has not been in a long time.
Speaker 1: But Thursday night I preached a message. It was very powerful.
Speaker 1: It was called Finished Strong. I am hoping that we
Speaker 1: can put it on YouTube soon. But I spoke about
Speaker 1: intersectionality and then it's root word being intersection and how
Speaker 1: many of us live in intersections that we can't control,
Speaker 1: and are also called to intersections that we upset yes to,
Speaker 1: and how difficult and challenging it can be to navigate
Speaker 1: those intersections, but inviting God into them, how we do that?
Speaker 1: It was beautiful. I love it. I was so grateful
Speaker 1: God gave me something. So it was a long weekend,
Speaker 1: a lot of warfare, a lot of things that felt
Speaker 1: just like an attack.
Speaker 4: I got sick out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: Usually when I get sick, my kids bring home germs
Speaker 1: from school, and then I get sick. I get sick
Speaker 1: out of nowhere. They were completely healthy. It was the
Speaker 1: Wednesday before I was supposed to preach. I'm still kind
Speaker 1: of dealing with some congestion, but I really feel like
Speaker 1: it was just the devil doing what the devil does.
Speaker 1: So but all in all, I've got some press this week,
Speaker 1: I'm traveling and I'm just taking it easy. Rest in
Speaker 1: my mind. Resurrection Sunday is coming up. I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to that. I'm a tag team preach with my husband
Speaker 1: and my father. That'll be fun, interesting the first time,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we'll see how that goes. I talked about
Speaker 1: what I did, like who what I have to do.
Speaker 1: But as a person, I'm tired, I'm grateful, I need rest.
Speaker 1: I'm nervous with my book coming out. I have to
Speaker 1: tell you, as a black woman author, you know there
Speaker 1: is there has been a perspective in publishing circles that
Speaker 1: it can be challenging to figure out exactly what black
Speaker 1: readers want to digest and who they want to hear
Speaker 1: it from, and so there's not always a lot of
Speaker 1: value in the black audience. And so as a woman
Speaker 1: who has a predominantly black following, I've had to advocate
Speaker 1: for us hearing from our people and for the work
Speaker 1: that I believe God has given me. And I'm also
Speaker 1: having to keep it in front of people because at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, they're looking at the data,
Speaker 1: they're looking at the conversion. I'm so grateful for this book,
Speaker 1: Power Moves. I believe that it applies to any person,
Speaker 1: no matter where you are in your life, recognizing that
Speaker 1: our moves is not just about what we do outside
Speaker 1: of us, but how we allow power to move in
Speaker 1: us and through us, and then what happens outside of
Speaker 1: us is just the natural byproduct of that. And I'm
Speaker 1: really grateful for the message, and I want to get
Speaker 1: it in as many hands as possible, and so trying
Speaker 1: to make sure I keep it in front of people's hands.
Speaker 1: I hate asking people for things, right, and so there's
Speaker 1: a part of me that's like, can y'all please buy
Speaker 1: this book. It's going to change your life. Please, God
Speaker 1: gave it to me. I believe it's richly gonna bless you.
Speaker 1: But also, you know, feeling shy about saying that and
Speaker 1: putting myself out.
Speaker 4: There's always a struggle. So y'all pray for me.
Speaker 1: Please please get the book, not just for the reasons
Speaker 1: I listed, but because I think it's essential to us
Speaker 1: understanding how we balance these ever changing headlines responsibilities, hopes, dreams,
Speaker 1: and fears that are in front of us in a
Speaker 1: place that really anchors us and allows us to experience wisdom.
Speaker 1: So you guys, check out the book. It's gonna bless you.
Speaker 1: You can get it wherever books are sold. It comes
Speaker 1: out officially April thirtieth, but pre orders are really important
Speaker 1: because it says to the publisher, it says to the
Speaker 1: stores like, hey, this is a book that matters. We
Speaker 1: want to make sure that we have it in stock,
Speaker 1: and so they gauge that based off of the demand.
Speaker 1: So if I've done anything to help you, if I've
Speaker 1: preached a message or said anything that made you feel
Speaker 1: less alone, You've trusted me with the season in your life.
Speaker 1: I'm asking you to just pray about it. Ask God
Speaker 1: if you feel like this message is something that's for you.
Speaker 1: I've prayed while writing it and I know that.
Speaker 4: It'll bless you. So you guys check it out.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, nervous, all of those things, working hard, trying
Speaker 1: to be creative and innovative, authentic, stay true to myself,
Speaker 1: and you know, make sure I don't have boogers in
Speaker 1: my nose. Let's get into the mind your business question.
Speaker 1: You just minded mine. I want to mind yours. If
Speaker 1: you would like for me to mind your business, send
Speaker 1: your questions to podcasts at woman evolve dot com. I
Speaker 1: would love to help you navigate what is happening in
Speaker 1: your world to the extent that I can. I may
Speaker 1: not be able to say anything, but girl, that's that's
Speaker 1: I'm praying for you. But if I can say a
Speaker 1: little bit better, a little bit more than that, something
Speaker 1: a little bit better than that, I will be glad
Speaker 1: to help you.
Speaker 4: This message.
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure if she wants us to say
Speaker 1: her name, so I will leave it out. It says
Speaker 1: you out here knowing better, but not doing better. High
Speaker 1: pastor Sarah. I hope this message finds you well. The
Speaker 1: quote above is something I heard from you and one
Speaker 1: of your podcasts, and it's really speaking to me. At
Speaker 1: this point of my life, I need help. I'm hurting
Speaker 1: in so many ways, and I'm struggling to let go
Speaker 1: of the things and persons I know are contributing to
Speaker 1: me feeling like this. I feel emotionally drained and motivated,
Speaker 1: and I know I'm not pushing myself enough to achieve
Speaker 1: my goals. I'm ready to surrender and live a happier life.
Speaker 1: Looking forward to your response and speaking with you if
Speaker 1: you are able. Thanks in advance for your time. Man
Speaker 1: who cannot relate to this inward frustration of I feel
Speaker 1: like I can do better than this. I know that
Speaker 1: I can do better than this, but I don't know
Speaker 1: how to do better than this. Part of my argument
Speaker 1: about EVE is just because you know better, it really
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you do better. There are so many
Speaker 1: of us who have known better but still found ourselves
Speaker 1: not doing better. Does that mean there's something wrong with us?
Speaker 1: Are we dumb?
Speaker 4: Are we stupid? Are we lazy?
Speaker 1: Like? These are all legitimate questions that I asked myself
Speaker 1: when I was having these similar emotions. What I know
Speaker 1: now that I didn't know then is that it's not
Speaker 1: that you're not pushing yourself hard enough to do something.
Speaker 1: It's that you haven't yet accepted that you're not going
Speaker 1: to do anything until you're comfortable with who you are
Speaker 1: in your being. And if you cannot trust who you
Speaker 1: are in your being, then you will never trust what
Speaker 1: you do in order to come to a place where
Speaker 1: you trust who you are in your being, you have
Speaker 1: to be willing to do those hard things. You have
Speaker 1: to be willing to make those decisions about the friendships,
Speaker 1: about the choices that you're making with your body, with
Speaker 1: your food, with your time, with your decisions. You have
Speaker 1: to be willing to be someone for yourself before you
Speaker 1: can become anyone for anyone else. And so you said
Speaker 1: that I'm hurting in so many ways, and I'm struggling
Speaker 1: to let go of the things and persons I know
Speaker 1: are contributing to me feeling like this. So I want
Speaker 1: you to do an exercise if you can relate to this.
Speaker 1: I want you to feel in the blank. I want
Speaker 1: you to say to me I feel, or say to
Speaker 1: yourself rather, I believe that blank is more powerful than blank.
Speaker 1: So when you tell me that I am allowing things
Speaker 1: in persons to contribute to the feeling like this, I
Speaker 1: would feel this in if I can give an example
Speaker 1: of me being in a toxic relationship, I would say that.
Speaker 4: I believe.
Speaker 1: That I am allowing the fear of being alone to
Speaker 1: be more powerful than me discovering who I am on
Speaker 1: my own. We have to get down to truth. You
Speaker 1: can say to yourself, I don't mind being alone. I
Speaker 1: can be powerful by myself, like you can say whatever
Speaker 1: you want to to yourself. But we got to get
Speaker 1: down to truth. If we get down to truth, then
Speaker 1: we can get to change. Without truth, there can be
Speaker 1: no change.
Speaker 4: And so if you.
Speaker 1: Are allowing people or things to contribute to you feeling
Speaker 1: inwardly frustrated, we have to figure out what power they
Speaker 1: have that is more powerful than who you believe you
Speaker 1: can become. This month, we're talking about becoming powerful in God.
Speaker 1: If we're going to become powerful in God, we have
Speaker 1: to see what we're allowing to have more power than God.
Speaker 1: I believe that the history of our friendship is more
Speaker 1: powerful than what it is right now.
Speaker 4: So maybe right now.
Speaker 1: It's not much of nothing, but because of what it is,
Speaker 1: I'm allowing that power to have more power than me
Speaker 1: seeing what it is right now, I want you to
Speaker 1: identify whatever that truth is, and then I want you
Speaker 1: to connect that with what you want to believe. I
Speaker 1: want to believe that being alone does not mean that
Speaker 1: I have to experience loneliness. I want to believe that
Speaker 1: letting go of smoking is not more powerful than me
Speaker 1: figuring out who I am in God. I want to
Speaker 1: believe that I can have a clear mind. I want
Speaker 1: to believe I used to smoke weed all the time.
Speaker 1: And I used to smoke weed all of the time
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day I got so
Speaker 1: high I did not have to feel anything at all.
Speaker 1: And there was something about being numb about like floating
Speaker 1: in the clouds, that just made me feel like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, this is so much better than sitting in.
Speaker 4: My real life.
Speaker 1: People say, you can't be addicted to me. Maybe I
Speaker 1: was just addicted to that feeling that you for feeling.
Speaker 1: But there came a time in my life where I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to have to be high
Speaker 1: to survive my life. I want a life that doesn't
Speaker 1: have to feel like I need to survive it. And
Speaker 1: so I had to sit in the pain and the
Speaker 1: discomfort of what was happening in my life that made
Speaker 1: me want to escape it. And when I began to
Speaker 1: do that, I realized that, like I had more power
Speaker 1: to change my life than I was giving myself credit
Speaker 1: to credit for, Like God had already given me the
Speaker 1: power when God gave me a vision of what my
Speaker 1: life should look like, regardless of the fact that I
Speaker 1: didn't agree with that vision, Like I had power, and
Speaker 1: when your power, your belief, your faith aligned with God's power,
Speaker 1: belief and faith, then the Holy Spirit will lead you
Speaker 1: into How do I walk into that? And so I
Speaker 1: stopped smoking and I started sitting. You know, I started
Speaker 1: thinking about what type of mother do I want to be?
Speaker 1: What type of woman do I want to be? What
Speaker 1: type of food choices do I want to make? What
Speaker 1: do I want my relationship with God to look like?
Speaker 1: And I begin making decisions in that direction. And know
Speaker 1: it wasn't perfect twenty four to seven, and yes I
Speaker 1: had moments where I fell back as well, but there
Speaker 1: was something about making a decision to move in the
Speaker 1: direction of God's vision for my life that made me
Speaker 1: feel more confident in who I was. And when you
Speaker 1: become more confident in who you are, you are then
Speaker 1: able to do the things that are only connected to
Speaker 1: that empowered version of you. Sometimes we want an empowered vision,
Speaker 1: but we aren't empowered people. And until we can become
Speaker 1: an empowered person, we cannot lay hold of an empowered vision.
Speaker 1: It's going to take power for you to manifest who
Speaker 1: God has called you to be in the earth.
Speaker 4: It's going to take power.
Speaker 1: When Jesus calls the disciples and he says hello, he
Speaker 1: didn't just say I want you to go cast out
Speaker 1: demons and go heal the sick, and I want you
Speaker 1: to raise the dead and preach and call people to repentance.
Speaker 1: He said, I am giving you power to do it.
Speaker 1: I didn't just give you the vision. I have to
Speaker 1: give you the power to make the vision possible. That
Speaker 1: power has to be in you. It has to be
Speaker 1: a part of you. It cannot just happen because if
Speaker 1: something that's taken place outside of you. So you need
Speaker 1: power in you. When power is in you, then power
Speaker 1: can move through you, and then power can move for you.
Speaker 1: How do I get power in me? You have to
Speaker 1: see what has more power over you. Right now, when
Speaker 1: you see what has more power over you, you get
Speaker 1: to reclaim that power. Fear you don't get to have it.
Speaker 1: Shame you don't get to have it. Addiction you don't
Speaker 1: get to have it. Loneliness you don't get to have it.
Speaker 1: I'm taking that power back, and I'm throwing that power
Speaker 1: in the direction of who God says I am, in
Speaker 1: order from my spirit to look like God's spirit. I
Speaker 1: am going to need the Holy Spirit, Jesus, Angel, prayers, boundaries, discipline,
Speaker 1: I'm going to need all of these things to move
Speaker 1: in the direction of that. But when I do, I
Speaker 1: become an empowered person who was confident enough to say
Speaker 1: I can trust myself, I can recover, I can forgive myself.
Speaker 1: I can pick up the pieces and move in the
Speaker 1: direction of God's vision for my life. That is confidence
Speaker 1: that allows us to become a force. That is what
Speaker 1: this book is about. And so I don't want to
Speaker 1: say your name, almost said your name. I hope that
Speaker 1: this helps you. I need you to surrender to becoming,
Speaker 1: not doing. I need you to make decisions for yourself
Speaker 1: that will allow you to become who God has always known.
Speaker 1: And real quick, I want to read you just a
Speaker 1: little excerpt from my book that I think will really
Speaker 1: help you, although I just basically gave you a whole breakdown,
Speaker 1: So it says, I want you to begin analyzing the
Speaker 1: ways that you unknowingly relinquish power on small levels. It's
Speaker 1: easy to think about the big areas that we want
Speaker 1: to change, but what about the small dreams in our lives,
Speaker 1: the actions and assumption that poke holes and make way
Speaker 1: for slow leaks. I have felt powerless before in saving money,
Speaker 1: losing weight, participating in functions that I did not want
Speaker 1: to attend, condoning offensive behavior, or allowing someone to blatantly
Speaker 1: lie in an effort to keep the peace. I tell
Speaker 1: myself that I was incapable of controlling the scenario, but
Speaker 1: that was never true. I just gave my fear of
Speaker 1: change more power than my.
Speaker 4: Fear of things staying the same.
Speaker 1: If you're going to become powerful in God, you are
Speaker 1: going to have to come to a place where your
Speaker 1: fear of change is not more powerful than your fear
Speaker 1: of things staying the same.
Speaker 4: Oh, that helps you evolve.
Speaker 1: You may remember when I was having a conversation with
Speaker 1: my friend Jason Bow and Cindy Brown, and we were
Speaker 1: talking about what does it mean when a woman is powerful?
Speaker 1: Like do powerful women really recognize how powerful they are?
Speaker 1: And if they do know they're powerful, does it come
Speaker 1: off as arrogant? This is a question that I have pondered,
Speaker 1: and especially as it relates to becoming powerful in God.
Speaker 1: You know, I mentioned to you last week that after
Speaker 1: I spoke twice in like three days, that I was
Speaker 1: feeling like a little confident. I was like, Lord, don't
Speaker 1: let me be proud or arrogant. And then I found
Speaker 1: that scripture about always triumphing in Christ, and it gave
Speaker 1: me a lot of peace in my soul. Because there
Speaker 1: has to be how can I say this, There has
Speaker 1: to be a moment in which we decide that I
Speaker 1: will no longer punish myself with insecurity or low self esteem.
Speaker 1: Let's let that marinate for a minute. There has to
Speaker 1: come a moment when you are willing to say to
Speaker 1: yourself I no longer have to punish myself with low
Speaker 1: self esteem or insecurity because of.
Speaker 4: What I see, what I did, who I was. When
Speaker 4: we truly believe.
Speaker 1: That because we have given our lives to Jesus, and
Speaker 1: that we are living a life that seeks to channel
Speaker 1: God and all that we do that seeks to acknowledge
Speaker 1: how much growth we have yet to accomplish, but also
Speaker 1: how assured we are of that being possible, there has
Speaker 1: to come a moment where we begin to say to ourselves,
Speaker 1: I will no longer punish myself by playing small, playing little,
Speaker 1: demeaning myself, diminishing my contribution, because I am who God
Speaker 1: says I am, and I can't say that I am
Speaker 1: there twenty four to seven, but there was something powerful
Speaker 1: about the Scripture reminds that I can be triumphant in God,
Speaker 1: like I'm allowed to be confident in what God is
Speaker 1: doing in my life and how God is showing up,
Speaker 1: how I am creating space for that to happen, how
Speaker 1: my obedience is paving away. This is not an entitlement,
Speaker 1: This is not arrogance. This is acknowledgment that Christ's power
Speaker 1: is working through me. And I recognize that we have
Speaker 1: this treasure in earth and vessels. He could use anyone else,
Speaker 1: and yet He's using me. And I'm honored by that.
Speaker 1: I'm humbled by that, and I can own that, and
Speaker 1: I am hopeful that I will get to a place
Speaker 1: where that become second nature to me and that you
Speaker 1: will too. I was in conversation with tamer And Hall,
Speaker 1: and she is one of those women who I believe
Speaker 1: make power look easy. You may know her from her
Speaker 1: amazing syndicated daytime talk show, which has earned her two
Speaker 1: Daytime Emmy Awards. She was formally a national news correspondent
Speaker 1: for NBC News, a daytime anchor for MSNBC, host of
Speaker 1: the MSNBC Live with Tammeron Hall and a co host
Speaker 1: of Today's Take the third Hour of Today. She hosts
Speaker 1: Deadline Crime on Investigation Discovery Channel, but she has recently
Speaker 1: taken daytime television by storm. In September of twenty and nineteen,
Speaker 1: her daytime talk show debut. She is a Texas girl.
Speaker 1: She's from I want to say she I think she
Speaker 1: said Luling, Lulling, Texas. Luling Texas girls helped me out,
Speaker 1: but then she moved to the DFW area and she's
Speaker 1: got a lot of the same stomping grounds that I
Speaker 1: am very well familiar with. In this conversation, though, I
Speaker 1: was just I was struck by her confidence, by her poise,
Speaker 1: by her humility. We talk about finding love even though
Speaker 1: you're a powerful woman, owning your voice when it comes
Speaker 1: to advocating for your gifts, your talents, your ideas, and
Speaker 1: environments and settings where that may not always be easy.
Speaker 1: I think you're going to be completely and utterly blown
Speaker 1: away by this conversation. Check it out. So this is
Speaker 1: a little intimidating because you are that girl.
Speaker 3: Oh are you kidding me? Or amazing? And thank you
Speaker 3: for coming on before I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Thank you, I really appreciate it. I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about your journey. This month at Woman Evolve,
Speaker 1: we're talking about surrendering to becoming powerful, which with it
Speaker 1: being Women's History Month, and we recognize just how difficult
Speaker 1: it can be for women to create spaces where their
Speaker 1: voices and ideas are taken seriously and then even propelled
Speaker 1: into places maybe where they never thought they would be,
Speaker 1: and certainly there wasn't any space reserved for them. I
Speaker 1: cannot think of someone better to talk to than you,
Speaker 1: as you are not just First of all, you're a
Speaker 1: Texas girl, which we girl.
Speaker 3: What you know about those Texas girls, what you know
Speaker 3: about us about us?
Speaker 1: But I'm curious just to know a little bit about
Speaker 1: your journey and the systems that you've had to navigate
Speaker 1: to get to a place to where you are now
Speaker 1: where most people would think. You know, you're one of
Speaker 1: the most powerful voices in television and you are being
Speaker 1: so intentional about the conversations you're having. But this was
Speaker 1: a journey. So can we talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: your journey?
Speaker 2: Of course, and you know it's still a journey. I'll
Speaker 2: be very honest with you last night, around two am,
Speaker 2: I found myself just sobbing. I had a very frustrating
Speaker 2: conversation with someone who I felt really intentionally to be
Speaker 2: honest with you, attempted to diminish me, attempted to make
Speaker 2: me somehow feel like the name of the show was
Speaker 2: like a rent whole sign, like I rent the name
Speaker 2: tammeron Hall that I'm not tamoron Hall. And it was
Speaker 2: very fascinating because I'm executive producer and creator of the show,
Speaker 2: and so often I find myself needing, not feeling like
Speaker 2: needing to say to people, I am not just a
Speaker 2: person who walks on camera and says, feed me my lines.
Speaker 3: I'm not an actress.
Speaker 2: I am holly like you, wholly invested in anything that
Speaker 2: we do because we recognize the impact of our voice,
Speaker 2: of the power we project, and what our names mean.
Speaker 2: And so I was on this call without you know,
Speaker 2: going into too much detail, but it happened earlier in
Speaker 2: the day, like six o'clock, and then.
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, I woke out.
Speaker 2: I was crying, and I was so frustrated, wondering, you know,
Speaker 2: when does it and when does it stop being so hard?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: When do you have to stop demanding or commanding people
Speaker 2: to understand you and your power and your and that
Speaker 2: it is not a what do they call it, It's
Speaker 2: not a flex.
Speaker 3: Your power.
Speaker 2: And I laughed at some point in the midst of
Speaker 2: my tears and said, you know, I think that's a
Speaker 2: battle of a woman. That's the battle a black woman. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it doesn't get easier.
Speaker 3: I don't believe. You learn to deal with it, not
Speaker 3: suppress it. Right. It doesn't mean push it down and
Speaker 3: just soldier through.
Speaker 2: But I think you learn tools and mechanisms to allow
Speaker 2: yourself to soar versus letting it hold you down. You know,
Speaker 2: you allow yourself to be surrounded by people who will
Speaker 2: empower your voice and and make you feel heard and collaborate,
Speaker 2: right I am.
Speaker 3: There is nothing better for me, Sarah than getting on
Speaker 3: the phone with.
Speaker 2: My friends and we literally collaborate on how I'm going
Speaker 2: to win and how they're gonna We laugh and we
Speaker 2: you know it is it's so joyful to sit on
Speaker 2: especially friends that I had the same best friend who's
Speaker 2: in four worth since I was four years old, and
Speaker 2: she is the reason that I'm in TV because she
Speaker 2: was the first person that ever beat me running I
Speaker 2: ran track. I ran at Polly High School. I ran
Speaker 2: track my whole life, summer track. I was the kids
Speaker 2: that you see, the big group in the nine thousand
Speaker 2: degree Texas heat going jun year Olympics.
Speaker 3: That was me.
Speaker 2: And then when my best friend once we were in
Speaker 2: high school, beat me, it just it was a wake
Speaker 2: up call.
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, I'm not as fast as I
Speaker 3: think I am.
Speaker 2: And that was a big pivot right at seventeen, realizing
Speaker 2: that this dream of being in the Olympics and all
Speaker 2: of these things that I thought would happen. I knew
Speaker 2: I was gonna be Carrie Champion me. I'm not Kuri Richardson,
Speaker 2: Shakari Richardson.
Speaker 3: I knew because I was Flow Joe, and then I
Speaker 3: was gonna be her, you know.
Speaker 2: So that dream was, as they say, deferred, and it
Speaker 2: led me to really hunkering down on journalism and recognizing
Speaker 2: this gift I believe I have communicating with people and
Speaker 2: allowing them to feel safe to talk about their journeys,
Speaker 2: just as you have with me on the show. So
Speaker 2: I think going all the way back, I mean I
Speaker 2: was born in Lulin, Texas, this teeny tiny town right
Speaker 2: outside of Lockhart in the Hill Country. My grandfather was
Speaker 2: a sharecropper who couldn't read that he signed his name
Speaker 2: with an ex And I grew up hearing that story
Speaker 2: of this very proud man who raised his children after
Speaker 2: his wife passed away.
Speaker 3: My mom was ten when her mom passed away.
Speaker 2: He raised his children and with great pride and great confidence,
Speaker 2: but couldn't read. I mean, imagine that he's signing his
Speaker 2: name with an ex and I make my living with words.
Speaker 2: And my mom, who was a nineteen year old single
Speaker 2: mom who went to Paul Quinn and found herself returning
Speaker 2: home after her first year to tell her father that
Speaker 2: she was expecting a child and what that would look
Speaker 2: like and what that meant for her, but still soldiering
Speaker 2: through and moving to Dallas forward saying, the opportunities are
Speaker 2: here in Luling, let me go and let me bet
Speaker 2: on myself. So so much of my journey, honestly has
Speaker 2: included moments like that, women, especially my aunts and folks
Speaker 2: around me, who poured in that bet on your self mentality.
Speaker 2: And I think whether it was when I was in
Speaker 2: local news to Chicago, to the Today's Show at MSNBC,
Speaker 2: to where I am now, I wear that bet on
Speaker 2: yourself on my sleep, and it's my superpower.
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting that we know you for
Speaker 1: your voice, we know you for the way that you
Speaker 1: show up in our homes, and yet behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: you're still having to exercise the power of your voice, Like,
Speaker 1: no matter how powerful it is on screen or in
Speaker 1: our homes, you're still having to introduce and reintroduce who
Speaker 1: you are in some of those spaces where you know
Speaker 1: conversations are being had.
Speaker 4: I am here.
Speaker 1: Do you remember like one of the first times where
Speaker 1: you had to make a decision to say, like, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to conform. I'm not going to go with
Speaker 1: the flow for the opportunity, like I'm going to say
Speaker 1: something even if this means resistance or that I become
Speaker 1: like someone that's considered a problem, because I have found
Speaker 1: that I'm writing, well it's written now, but there's a
Speaker 1: book that I've written called Power Moves, and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to debunk this idea that like power just shows up
Speaker 1: in one expression all of the time, that there are
Speaker 1: still moments where you have to exercise a different type
Speaker 1: of power and I will trust that that's power in
Speaker 1: that moment, and when I hear you speaking up for yourself,
Speaker 1: you you know, demanding that your ideas be honored in
Speaker 1: these spaces. It's making me wonder like, did you have
Speaker 1: to take a chance on doing that? Did you have
Speaker 1: to bet on yourself and doing that?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I think sometimes I wish, you know, for example,
Speaker 2: when I when I left the Today Show and made
Speaker 2: the decision that what they offering wasn't enough, people would
Speaker 2: say to me say, oh, she's so courageous, and I said,
Speaker 2: I wish it was courage It.
Speaker 3: Was not, you know, it was not. I'm a big
Speaker 3: back against the wall, right.
Speaker 2: I make my strongest moves when I feel that I
Speaker 2: don't have any other option but to run forward.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: I am not I'm not risk adverse to controversy or conflict.
Speaker 3: But it's not my nature.
Speaker 2: But when it is time I was raised to you know,
Speaker 2: I talk a lot about you know, over time. I
Speaker 2: believe I have great perspective now at fifty three. Priorities
Speaker 2: are different than perspective. And I had my perspectives in
Speaker 2: my twenties and my priorities rather and my priorities probably
Speaker 2: were in the club, you know, you know, in thirties,
Speaker 2: my priorities were something else and maybe this or that.
Speaker 2: So now my my fifties, I don't look so much
Speaker 2: at priorities as I do perspective. And for me, you know,
Speaker 2: I had great perspective after losing that job about value.
Speaker 2: Who are you if there's nothing beneath your name? Right,
Speaker 2: if it's just Sarah Jakes Roberts, What does that sound like?
Speaker 2: What does that feel like? And I, you know, found
Speaker 2: myself going back.
Speaker 3: To the core of the question.
Speaker 2: The thing that came to mind when you pose that
Speaker 2: question for me'sair was when I cut my hair. I
Speaker 2: remember cutting my hair very, very short, and people saying,
Speaker 2: you're not going to be an anchor. There's no way
Speaker 2: because back then in the nineties, the anchors weren't wearing
Speaker 2: their hair short like this, Right, I was an out
Speaker 2: liar and it was all but a short to me.
Speaker 2: I would not be getting a job in TV. I
Speaker 2: kept my hair short, and it wasn't an act of
Speaker 2: you know, rebellion.
Speaker 3: It was I like my hair short.
Speaker 2: In fact, to be honest with my boyfriend at the time,
Speaker 2: loved a need a baker, and I loved him, so let.
Speaker 3: Me look like you need a baker and this is
Speaker 3: the win here.
Speaker 2: But over time, when I started to interview at TV stations,
Speaker 2: that was like the oh, what's going on with your hair?
Speaker 2: Why is your hair so short? And that was me
Speaker 2: claiming my power in this small way. It then turned
Speaker 2: into me feeling that I would not be controlled to look.
Speaker 3: Like everyone else. I was not going to.
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to have to assimilate to get this job.
Speaker 2: My hard work and my determination would pay off that
Speaker 2: going back to that whole bossy complicated difficult, That's when
Speaker 2: it started. It's suddenly like, well, how dares she not
Speaker 2: take our advice? And then it turned into me speaking
Speaker 2: up in the newsroom. I mean I wrote my crime
Speaker 2: novel Watch where They Hide, and there's a scene with
Speaker 2: this character Jordan Manning, who's inspired by my life, where
Speaker 2: she said, you know, when you are a black woman
Speaker 2: in the office, everyone thinks they're your boss, even when
Speaker 2: you are the boss.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: And so that came from real experiences or speaking up
Speaker 2: to my news director at the time. In Dallas, there
Speaker 2: was a description of a suspect and they said five
Speaker 2: four black man, you know, dark hoodie, And I said,
Speaker 2: this could be anybody. This isn't responsible and he said
Speaker 2: to me, well that's what the police gave us, and
Speaker 2: feeling so powerless, but then.
Speaker 3: Saying, well, I'm not going to read it, you know.
Speaker 2: And I pour a little of that in that character
Speaker 2: Jordan Manning, because I did want people who see my
Speaker 2: career to see a little bit of what happened.
Speaker 3: They asked me, are you ready to write a memoir?
Speaker 2: I was like, too zoom, Like Dave Chappelle said, they
Speaker 2: asked him to go on what was Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 3: And You're like, yeah, the memoir, I'm like to soon,
Speaker 3: to soon.
Speaker 2: But I was ready to create this character that showed
Speaker 2: you little glimpses of being a black woman. One of
Speaker 2: one many times in the newsroom, one of one in
Speaker 2: a press conference, yelling.
Speaker 3: Out my question. It was, you know, it's kind of surreal,
Speaker 3: but I I find my boldest moves.
Speaker 2: When I when I.
Speaker 3: I say, you know, fight or flight, because I'm not
Speaker 3: a runner.
Speaker 1: I'm not a runner. I mean, I really don't enjoy
Speaker 1: that about myself. Like I didn't know that I am
Speaker 1: fight or flight. I wish I could run, But there
Speaker 1: is something that happens where I'm like, if we're in it,
Speaker 1: we're in it.
Speaker 2: Let's go, and I'm the same way I am the
Speaker 2: I tell my friends I am that two a m.
Speaker 3: Let's drive by my youth, right, I'm wired that way.
Speaker 2: I am not a runner, but it takes I give
Speaker 2: a lot of chances. Even going back to the beginning
Speaker 2: of our conversation, when I'm saying I was in tears,
Speaker 2: I gave that conversation multiple I gave that person multiple
Speaker 2: times to get that conversation right because I didn't to
Speaker 2: your point, I didn't want to have to to respond
Speaker 2: in the way I felt I was left no choice.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Can I ask you?
Speaker 1: So? We see your power in your career and the
Speaker 1: way that staying true to that authenticity has paved a
Speaker 1: way for us to experience different versions of your gifts
Speaker 1: and talents. How do you feel like your power is
Speaker 1: different in your more private personal life? Without going into details,
Speaker 1: because I know you're very.
Speaker 3: No, No, I understand.
Speaker 2: You know my husband and I we have I feel
Speaker 2: a great balance, right. I think that he knows who
Speaker 2: he married and I know who I married, right, and
Speaker 2: he knows that if I come home and there's about
Speaker 2: two more Amazon boxes empty, I'm go go right. But
Speaker 2: he also knows rot I root in a way for
Speaker 2: the people I love that that I hope they know
Speaker 2: right I am. In fact, I just told someone the
Speaker 2: other day about my son who's going through something, and
Speaker 2: I felt that he was not even at age four
Speaker 2: and he's a you know, he's multi race, but he's
Speaker 2: a black child and he's a black boy, and I
Speaker 2: felt that he was not being treated fairly in the situation.
Speaker 2: And I had to quite honestly remind someone that I'm
Speaker 2: a mama bear rapped and a little lion, you know,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to protect. I'm a fierce protector. So
Speaker 2: in my home life, you know, Stephen is really big
Speaker 2: on like date nights. I'm not a big date night person.
Speaker 2: I actually hate date nights because I think it's contrived.
Speaker 3: I'm a virgo. I'm like waiting have to play.
Speaker 4: My husband's a verygo God bless you all.
Speaker 3: We're virgo, so you already know what he's dealing with.
Speaker 2: So, you know, I feel like in my home it's
Speaker 2: not about power, it's about understanding, right, And my power
Speaker 2: is the way I love and the way I love
Speaker 2: when I'm mad, the way I love when I'm sad.
Speaker 2: Those are the things that are important in our dynamic
Speaker 2: and our home.
Speaker 3: My husband.
Speaker 2: You know, my husband's a five to five Jewish manager
Speaker 2: with When he first hit on me, I thought he
Speaker 2: was trying to represent me. I'm like, wait a minute now.
Speaker 2: And it took time for me eve when realized he
Speaker 2: was trying to hit on me. But one of the
Speaker 2: things that worked so beautifully was the unexpected nature of it.
Speaker 2: And I just lost my job and there was the
Speaker 2: first time I'd been unemployed ever in my life since
Speaker 2: it works. When I was fourteen, I worked at Toys
Speaker 2: r Us in hirst Ulis Bedford, right, and.
Speaker 3: So I've never not worked and I was out of
Speaker 3: a job. And in that.
Speaker 2: Loss of what I thought meant so much, I actually
Speaker 2: gained again going back to that word of perspective of
Speaker 2: what I wanted, And I wanted consistency not just in
Speaker 2: my family and my friends, but in my partner.
Speaker 3: And I wanted a child. And we set off on.
Speaker 2: This crazy IVF journey and it is up with this
Speaker 2: little kid named Moses, who's awesome. But in our home life,
Speaker 2: you know, my power is the way I can love.
Speaker 1: Yeah, was it hard for you as someone who was
Speaker 1: driven someone who's always worked to I don't even like
Speaker 1: because I wasn't sing one mother. When I met my husband,
Speaker 1: I bought my own home, like, I was very established,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't like I don't need a man, but
Speaker 1: like I didn't need one, like I had the option
Speaker 1: of wanting one, you know. And then when it was
Speaker 1: time for me to get mad, I realized, in order
Speaker 1: for this marriage to work, you're going to have to
Speaker 1: feel like you need, like this is something you really want.
Speaker 2: I love that question, sary, because here's why I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I'm like you, I'm like, I don't need but true story,
Speaker 2: I was on the fence about this situation.
Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, we kind of moved in.
Speaker 2: Well, we moved in together three weeks almost four weeks
Speaker 2: after our first date.
Speaker 3: And here's oh wait what you no, here's why, here's why,
Speaker 3: here's why. So we went out on a date. He
Speaker 3: said pizza. I was like, great, and I've never told
Speaker 3: anybody this was true. I was.
Speaker 2: I had cramps, really bad cramps, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm canceling this date.
Speaker 3: I am done, give me mid all go away. So
Speaker 3: he was like, no, well, let's walk. You know, you
Speaker 3: got to.
Speaker 2: Get up and go and I'm like, ah, so I
Speaker 2: have like no in other relationships, maybe I have more pretense,
Speaker 2: but I was thinking, I don't even know this dude,
Speaker 2: and he doesn't really.
Speaker 3: Well you know whatever. And so we went.
Speaker 2: We walked and it was just a beautiful walk to
Speaker 2: this Italian restaurant in my neighborhood in Tribeca and walked back.
Speaker 3: It was just very comfortable and I was like, this
Speaker 3: could be something.
Speaker 2: But then the greatest story effort I had a My
Speaker 2: home had an elevator that opened up into the apartment.
Speaker 3: Right. It's one of those like New York style departments.
Speaker 2: I go on the elevator to get ready to go
Speaker 2: to my dermatologists, and the elevator stops.
Speaker 3: It has never stopped.
Speaker 2: I'm by myself because there were only eight units in
Speaker 2: my building and the elevator won't open, and I'm pushing
Speaker 2: the like help me button. We don't have a doorman.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's true, one of those trybeca lofty things.
Speaker 2: And I call him and I was like, I am
Speaker 2: trapped in this elevator and he was at his office
Speaker 2: and he was like, I'm on my way, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I just can't call nine one one and
Speaker 2: let somebody know. And the reception was terrible, and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, in a record lightning period of time,
Speaker 2: the elevator door starts being pulled open and I'm like, stop.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna die. I'm gotta die.
Speaker 2: And he goes give me your hand, and I had,
Speaker 2: wait for it, a sax bag with me like wait
Speaker 2: a minute, and he pulls me out of this elevator.
Speaker 3: True story, and he will tell you that I was like, wait,
Speaker 3: my bag in my bag, and I.
Speaker 2: Was like, maybe I do need this, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Maybe I do need this. And that's why,
Speaker 2: you know, with this character, Jordan Manning and my in
Speaker 2: My Crime novel, it was important that I put in
Speaker 2: that love. I didn't want it just to be a
Speaker 2: you know, a thriller or a mystery. I wanted that
Speaker 2: romantic side or that desire.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The character, Jordan Manning, is in her thirties right, her
Speaker 2: career is going well, and she's climbing the ladder and
Speaker 2: she has her passion and she's driven to solve this
Speaker 2: mystery of this woman who's missing.
Speaker 3: But she wants that consistency.
Speaker 2: She wants that person who can pull that elevator open
Speaker 2: and reach in, because I think we all do. I
Speaker 2: see on my show all the time. I tell people,
Speaker 2: you know, I grew up, you know, around very strong
Speaker 2: women who often would say, well, I can do bad
Speaker 2: by myself or you can do bad by yourself, and
Speaker 2: you don't.
Speaker 3: And I understand that that toughening that you need. I
Speaker 3: do get in. I know where it comes from.
Speaker 2: And I'm happy my mom was that way as an
Speaker 2: independent single mom and having to bet on herself in
Speaker 2: this way and not wanting me to fall into some
Speaker 2: of the traps of financial dependency and things that can
Speaker 2: happen when you're riding so hard that that they're your train,
Speaker 2: they're your car, they're your commulsion.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: But but I tell my friends all the time, I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know what, if you want to be in a relationship,
Speaker 2: it's okay to say that. I told my cousin, you know,
Speaker 2: kill me. I was like, you better get one of
Speaker 2: these dating sites. What are the reputables and get out
Speaker 2: there tell anybody you know, hey, I am interesting, I
Speaker 2: am looking, and I encourage that.
Speaker 3: Not because I'm married now.
Speaker 2: I wish somebody had told me that before, Like, don't
Speaker 2: just be open to it, say that's what you want,
Speaker 2: and that's powerful.
Speaker 4: It is because it's owning what you want.
Speaker 1: And I think in a world where women are often
Speaker 1: told what they want or told what they should, be
Speaker 1: happy to get to be in a space where you
Speaker 1: can own what you want and you can put it
Speaker 1: out into the world and not trying to separate yourself
Speaker 1: from it so you aren't disappointed. I think that's an
Speaker 1: incredible gift. And I was actually saying, even outside of
Speaker 1: maybe relationship, like to own the fact that you want
Speaker 1: to rest, to own the fact that you want to
Speaker 1: go out and get something to eat, like we're always
Speaker 1: shrinking and diminishing our house and pretending like, oh no,
Speaker 1: I'm very easy to work with.
Speaker 4: I go with the flow.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I am the flow, and the flow hundred for
Speaker 1: something different today.
Speaker 3: Listen, I'll tell you.
Speaker 2: I love that you said that, because you know, when
Speaker 2: I first started this show, I had to make some
Speaker 2: big changes editorially. I needed to make some big changes
Speaker 2: with staffing that I knew were necessary to make the
Speaker 2: show better. And we didn't get to five seasons by chance.
Speaker 2: Right when I launched this show, people told me every
Speaker 2: single show that was canceled that was hosted by people
Speaker 2: way more famous. So basically, you know, remind me that
Speaker 2: we didn't have a chance, and so I had to
Speaker 2: make very bold, decisive moves. And I remember my mother
Speaker 2: calling me after reading some article one.
Speaker 3: Day that there just was a horrible person. It was
Speaker 3: a blood bats used fired everybody, which wasn't true. But
Speaker 3: my mother called me.
Speaker 2: And she was crying and she said, this is not
Speaker 2: who you are. It's making me so mad. Why is
Speaker 2: it as a black woman? You know, you were making
Speaker 2: these decisions as a woman. And when men changed, you know,
Speaker 2: producers and change people all the time, no one says anything.
Speaker 2: And I said, you're right, but you know what, I
Speaker 2: can take it because I had gone through enough that
Speaker 2: I was prepared for that. And that's why I went
Speaker 2: on my social media. I was like, hey, tam fam.
Speaker 4: Let me tell you what.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you because we would not be here
Speaker 2: had I not said, let me continue to pursue a
Speaker 2: better version of the show. You know, I had one
Speaker 2: mission in mind, to make the audience proud, to make
Speaker 2: everyone feel welcome, to have real conversations, and to make
Speaker 2: you feel like this is where I want to watch
Speaker 2: The Tammer Hall show.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, is that all? Let me just leave it on.
Speaker 2: No, I want Tammer and Hall show to be on.
Speaker 2: And that took some decisive things. So to your point,
Speaker 2: I like, by the sixth second, you know, first half,
Speaker 2: we were in a global pandemic. I am in my home,
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty employees are depending on me to
Speaker 2: figure out how to get this show going.
Speaker 3: So I was the flow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, you know.
Speaker 2: And I said to myself, people tell you to be
Speaker 2: proud of yourself, and then you're proud of yourself, and
Speaker 2: then it's like, oh.
Speaker 3: She's arrogant, or she's this, or she's that, or he's
Speaker 3: this or he's that.
Speaker 2: They assign these things while at the same time literally
Speaker 2: reading books on how to build confidence. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: wait what, So you know, I have embraced the fact
Speaker 2: that being the boss doesn't mean cruelty, doesn't mean you know,
Speaker 2: I have all the answers, but I have to have
Speaker 2: some confidence in the direction.
Speaker 1: It's just it's I feel like I'm being mentored and
Speaker 1: I'm just letting people listen in on it because I'm
Speaker 1: thirty five. You know. I started Woman Evolve and it
Speaker 1: looks a lot different than what traditional ministry has looked like.
Speaker 1: And one thing I knew for sure, Like God, if
Speaker 1: you were going to drag me into this, because I
Speaker 1: am I'd rather be introverted, I'd rather be behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: But something happened when I spoke to women. Something happened
Speaker 1: when I preach decermined, and I was like, Lord, if
Speaker 1: you're going to drag me into this, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do it authentically and maybe it'll work and maybe it won't,
Speaker 1: but I do not want to fail at pretending. I
Speaker 1: will feel seeing me all day long, like I don't
Speaker 1: know if I all for you, but I cannot twist
Speaker 1: and contort myself to become someone that is more palatable
Speaker 1: so that you can say I didn't like her anyway.
Speaker 1: Like if I'm going down, I'm going down as myself.
Speaker 1: And that to me, like authenticity is your superpower, Like
Speaker 1: if you can stand ten toe's down for you even
Speaker 1: when you're wrong, apologizing like you, it's not arrogance. But
Speaker 1: I'm going to stick beside me and I'm going to
Speaker 1: run on and see what the end gonna be as
Speaker 1: it relates to me and this partnership with God. And
Speaker 1: that is all I can hang on to because if
Speaker 1: I don't, people are going to put things in my
Speaker 1: hand that I don't even know if I'm called to carry,
Speaker 1: like I don't know if I'm called to carry this.
Speaker 2: I love that you said it, because again going back
Speaker 2: to the day that I found out I was not
Speaker 2: going back to the Today Show, I went into deep
Speaker 2: prayer and people ask me, you know, well, were you mad?
Speaker 2: There was such a calm when I tell you I'm like,
Speaker 2: I said to the individuals, I have a picture of
Speaker 2: me and my mom.
Speaker 3: I have a dress in that closet that belongs to me.
Speaker 3: I want the picture of my mom and my dressing.
Speaker 2: By this time, Papa, and that wasn't me being arrogant.
Speaker 2: It was me saying, I'm in peace with this because
Speaker 2: I have I've spoken with God, I have gone into
Speaker 2: this closet, and I have e merged at peace with this.
Speaker 2: So the next day I donated all my clothes I
Speaker 2: wanted to just It was like a baptism in so
Speaker 2: many ways.
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm good.
Speaker 2: And I started to construct this idea of this conversation
Speaker 2: and who I would have on and what we would
Speaker 2: talk about and all of this. And so when it
Speaker 2: comes time to you know, you have the ingredients, right,
Speaker 2: you think you want. Now you're going to build a recipe.
Speaker 2: And now you're going to say I need a little
Speaker 2: more stuff. I didn't think I need, okay, And then
Speaker 2: someone will have the audacity to tell you no, wait
Speaker 2: a minute. I sold this show. I went into rooms
Speaker 2: with people who did didn't even want me in there,
Speaker 2: but had to take the meeting. I started this show
Speaker 2: with Harvey Weinstein. Three months in he is getting ready
Speaker 2: to go to trial on rape allegations. And now you
Speaker 2: want me to shrink myself down. That is not on
Speaker 2: the recipe list. I'm not shopping in the grocery store
Speaker 2: for that level of humility. I Am going to stand
Speaker 2: as you said, ten toes down and move in.
Speaker 3: And so you know, I happen to have a heavier voice.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because my voice was we were looking
Speaker 2: at some old tapes in me back that a little
Speaker 2: uch like I have a heavier voice, and you know,
Speaker 2: people would well her tone and I'm like, I'm literally
Speaker 2: saying hi guys, you know, and you know every sentence
Speaker 2: that I would start ould be like hey, you know.
Speaker 2: And then if I went in professional, oh too, harsh
Speaker 2: because you need me to song and dance to make
Speaker 2: you feel Okay, that's not the job. You know, We're
Speaker 2: in a global pandemic. I have to make decisive business decisions.
Speaker 2: I was an anchor and a reporter turned business woman
Speaker 2: because this is a business and I needed to make
Speaker 2: business decisions. And if it required me to come in
Speaker 2: and do a damsel in distress routine that was not
Speaker 2: on the menu, I'm not serving that up. And to
Speaker 2: your point, I'd rather fail being true to myself. And
Speaker 2: of course, as I said, nobody's right all the time.
Speaker 2: I don't pretennybody. I love collaborating. I am a big
Speaker 2: you know. We do table reads for our show. We
Speaker 2: get the scripts together and I sit and I reading.
Speaker 2: I enjoy. I think it's because I ran track and
Speaker 2: I love that communal energy of things, and I love
Speaker 2: when people can get around and talk and say oh
Speaker 2: I like that. And everybody got run out of the
Speaker 2: room crying because it's I always tell people, it's not
Speaker 2: this is a team right where to get there?
Speaker 3: This I'm never going to hurt you.
Speaker 2: My joy when I retire from this will be to
Speaker 2: be in, you know, somewhere retired and watching a TV
Speaker 2: show and seeing the names of the people who worked
Speaker 2: on my show. A lot of my kids are like
Speaker 2: in their twenties and thirties, I want to see executive producer.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know that, Pa, you know, and I
Speaker 2: love that, and.
Speaker 3: So I I fight hard.
Speaker 2: I am competitive. I'm not going to apologize for that.
Speaker 2: I am not going to shrink down and I'm not
Speaker 2: Michelle Obama said, when people say angry black women, that
Speaker 2: says more about you than it does about me.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to carry that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if they you know, because there's this
Speaker 1: idea that women are hard to work with, especially women
Speaker 1: of color, can be hard to work with, and like,
Speaker 1: are we hard to work with?
Speaker 4: Or do we just take up space?
Speaker 1: And because you're so, it's not as common as taking
Speaker 1: up space that when we take up space, it stands
Speaker 1: out because I do think.
Speaker 2: I think it's easy. I think it's just an easy
Speaker 2: thing to say. Honestly. I addressed it on my show
Speaker 2: right after that incident. I told you there was some
Speaker 2: article that said, you know, she was difficult and I
Speaker 2: and it was after Gabrielle Union had been attacked because
Speaker 2: she was difficult, allegedly and I said on my air,
Speaker 2: does this get old?
Speaker 3: Ever?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Is this?
Speaker 2: I mean, like you guys have to come up with
Speaker 2: a new script if you want to get us out
Speaker 2: of the room. And to your point, that doesn't just
Speaker 2: relate to black women or women of color.
Speaker 3: That's women.
Speaker 2: I mean every day there's a woman in an office
Speaker 2: where a case in point.
Speaker 3: My husband and I were talking about someone and.
Speaker 2: An individual this lawyer referred to her as difficult, and
Speaker 2: I said what makes her difficult?
Speaker 3: And he couldn't answer because he knew where I was going.
Speaker 2: I said, it's a it's a pivot, it's a trope.
Speaker 2: It's an easy way to say you were uncomfortable because
Speaker 2: that person likely called you into a be accountable. Right,
Speaker 2: So now I am difficult or I am too tough.
Speaker 2: And I think with women, and this is one of
Speaker 2: the things that I know, I'm sure you have experienced
Speaker 2: this at every woman. I think in some capacity where
Speaker 2: you not only it's like you're the nurturer, you are
Speaker 2: the you know, I have to do things. You know
Speaker 2: there are men who manage, and someone wouldn't dare come
Speaker 2: in and say I just couldn't do it today because.
Speaker 3: I forgot.
Speaker 2: What he wants to forgot, you know, and I you know,
Speaker 2: but I'm so lucky to have five seasons. I think
Speaker 2: my team more than ever recognized that I root for them.
Speaker 2: But going back to what you're saying about the difficult,
Speaker 2: I just think it's an easy layup. It's been accepted
Speaker 2: through society for so long that if you say she's
Speaker 2: difficult to a room of one hundred people, you're probably
Speaker 2: gonna win fifty without even asking why.
Speaker 3: But now that you have more.
Speaker 2: Women in the rooms, more women who are leaders, that
Speaker 2: one hundred people hopefully will be half women, and they
Speaker 2: have all been called that, So you've lost half the audience, right,
Speaker 2: And so that's what I think. I think having I
Speaker 2: have a female executive producer, co executive producer, director, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure.
Speaker 3: They've all been called difficult.
Speaker 2: My PR team, I'm surrounded by women like yourself who
Speaker 2: are uplifters, and that's what I call us. We are
Speaker 2: uplifters and that comes with sometimes that label. And I'm
Speaker 2: okay to your point, I'm okay in that space.
Speaker 1: Okay, I have one more question, I asked, and then
Speaker 1: I will reluctantly let you go because and.
Speaker 3: I mean I'm to show in person.
Speaker 4: I would love that.
Speaker 1: I would love that, but I want to take advantage
Speaker 1: of the fact that I have you now. And what
Speaker 1: is the most powerful lesson God has taught you about forgiveness?
Speaker 4: Mmmm?
Speaker 2: Wow? My biological father not being in my life and
Speaker 2: being raised by my stepfather who was the father that
Speaker 2: God meant for me.
Speaker 3: To have, and.
Speaker 2: Allowing his journey to be his journey, and forgiving him
Speaker 2: for not being what I hoped he could be or
Speaker 2: my mother hoped he could be. But I also recognizing
Speaker 2: I don't have to try to make up that time,
Speaker 2: so we don't have a big relationship at all, honestly,
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean I don't forgive him, because you know,
Speaker 2: he too, like my mother, was a kid, and if
Speaker 2: we are the total sum of even our worst experiences, you.
Speaker 3: Know we're not.
Speaker 2: None of us are, And so I can't hold him
Speaker 2: hostage to a mistake, as I would not want my
Speaker 2: son to hold me hostage to any.
Speaker 1: Mistaken There's nothing like parenting to make your soul a
Speaker 1: little bit more gentle to those who parented you. I
Speaker 1: have so much perspective for my parents now and now
Speaker 1: I'm raising a fourteen year old girl.
Speaker 3: It's good luck.
Speaker 4: Good luck.
Speaker 3: It don't know like that.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your time, for your heart, for your
Speaker 1: offering to the world, for your leadership. Even those of
Speaker 1: us who are not in the day to day of
Speaker 1: what you're doing, are being led by your yes, and
Speaker 1: I just want you to know that it is. It's
Speaker 1: affecting us greatly and helping us to move forward in
Speaker 1: our destinies wherever they are.
Speaker 4: So thank you, so much, thank you.
Speaker 3: I just love you to death and I hope to
Speaker 3: see you. So thank you.
Speaker 1: I am just sitting here wondering if you felt the
Speaker 1: very same thing that I felt in having this conversation
Speaker 1: with her. If you are curious about where you can
Speaker 1: learn more about her, she's on all of the social
Speaker 1: media's and she's on your local television or maybe an
Speaker 1: act that Carrie's Live TV. I'm telling you, I really
Speaker 1: experienced a blessing. I told my husband that I was
Speaker 1: blown away in a way that just made me feel
Speaker 1: like I was meeting a mentor that I didn't even
Speaker 1: know that I needed. Just so you know, the book
Speaker 1: that she mentioned where she's talking about the character Jordan Manning,
Speaker 1: is one that you will absolutely enjoy. You guys know
Speaker 1: if you're a part of the Woman Evolved book club
Speaker 1: that I am a fan of the books. And her
Speaker 1: new book is called Watch Where They Hide. It's by
Speaker 1: tammeran Hall. Of course, it is a part of a series.
Speaker 1: It is an edge of your seat thriller. I love
Speaker 1: just how much diversity she is showing in her expression
Speaker 1: as a news anchor. That's totally different than what it
Speaker 1: takes to be a daytime television host, which is totally
Speaker 1: different than what it takes to be an author, a wife,
Speaker 1: a mother. It sounds like tammeran Hall has discovered why
Speaker 1: and how power moves.
Speaker 4: Okay, so this.
Speaker 1: Latest book is one you don't want to miss. Make
Speaker 1: sure you can get it anywhere books are sold Amazon, Barnes, Noble, Target, Walmart, Bookshop,
Speaker 1: Books a million. Let's support what this queen has going on.
Speaker 1: And I hope you guys Okay, wait, so listen.
Speaker 4: Okay. Last week I said, let's rescue Kate.
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, at this point we
Speaker 1: got it even double down. Not that we are rescuing
Speaker 1: her from conspiracy theories, but we are rescuing her from
Speaker 1: us being in her business.
Speaker 4: I felt so much shame. The word is shame that I.
Speaker 1: Joined into a conversation about something I absolutely no business in,
Speaker 1: but was, you know, caught up in the talks and
Speaker 1: wondering where she was. Devastated to hear that she is
Speaker 1: facing cancer, recognizing how challenging that must be for her
Speaker 1: as a wife, a mother, and then a public figure.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine how difficult the public scrutiny was,
Speaker 1: and so certainly sending prayers and much apologies. Not that
Speaker 1: she listened to the Womani Ball podcast, but you know,
Speaker 1: just in case, you know, just I learned my lesson,
Speaker 1: a valuable lesson, sending prayers for her and anyone else
Speaker 1: who is battling this terrible, terrible disease, and just remembering
Speaker 1: how much victory we have when we are able to
Speaker 1: fight it with faith, with love, with hope, with compassion
Speaker 1: and empathy. So certainly sending all of those things your way.
Speaker 1: I did get a rescue and authorized rescue, and that
Speaker 1: someone has allowed me to mind their business. And it
Speaker 1: is pretty simple.
Speaker 4: It says.
Speaker 1: I've been married for over twenty years, and we have
Speaker 1: had our share of ups and downs, trust and believe,
Speaker 1: and we both have our traumas that have shown up
Speaker 1: in our marriage. I get that and understand how it's
Speaker 1: all connected, but Hubby doesn't get it. We have been
Speaker 1: to therapy together and I have done individual therapy, but
Speaker 1: Hubby hasn't and he definitely needs it. His shouted trauma
Speaker 1: involves absent parents, childhood rape, and child of molestation. I
Speaker 1: am the only person that's confided in about these things,
Speaker 1: and when it happens, I never have my therapy hadn't. No,
Speaker 1: I am not a therapist, but I always want to
Speaker 1: try because he refuses to go to individual therapy and
Speaker 1: he's too much of a man to ever tell anyone
Speaker 1: outside of me about his experiences as a child, especially
Speaker 1: the sexual abuse. I literally may go back to grad
Speaker 1: school to get a degree in family therapy, just to
Speaker 1: therapies my husband. Just by the way, I be thinking
Speaker 1: about this all the time, not the therapie my husband,
Speaker 1: which by the way she put in quotation marks, but
Speaker 1: because I am just so intrigued by the human experience
Speaker 1: and how it shapes us. Anyways, back to her letter,
Speaker 1: it says prayer is also a huge part of our
Speaker 1: life and journey, and I pray for my hubbies healing
Speaker 1: every day, twice a day. So do I just leave
Speaker 1: it in God's hands? Okay, I've heard people say that
Speaker 1: one spouse is not responsible for the other spouse's healing journey.
Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day, we are one
Speaker 1: and our charuments will affect eat the other.
Speaker 4: So three questions.
Speaker 1: Do you agree or disagree with one spouse is not
Speaker 1: responsible for the other spouse's healing journey? Do you think
Speaker 1: that someone who is broken gonna have healthy and successful relationships?
Speaker 1: Do I just leave his healing in God's hands? Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for taking time to rescue me. Okay, Mama, listen,
Speaker 1: I know this is like mind your business slash rescue me.
Speaker 1: But you know sometimes we out here trying to rescue
Speaker 1: the wives who are doing the therapy work with partners
Speaker 1: who are not yet in that space, and that can
Speaker 1: be really difficult. So to answer your questions and sequence,
Speaker 1: do I agree or disagree with one spouse is not
Speaker 1: responsible for the other spouse's healing journey? I do agree.
Speaker 1: It is not your responsibility to heal the other's spouse.
Speaker 1: It is not your response ability to make sure that
Speaker 1: they heal. But I believe that you can inspire their
Speaker 1: healing journey by pursuing your own, by being a soft
Speaker 1: space for them to land, by sharing what you're learning
Speaker 1: about your own trauma and creating space where it is
Speaker 1: normalized in the context of your relationship. Do I think
Speaker 1: that someone who is broken can have healthy and successful relationships?
Speaker 1: Do I think that someone I think that we're all
Speaker 1: broken in some way, And I think defining what healthy
Speaker 1: and successful relationships look like in the context of us
Speaker 1: navigating our various places of brokenness is something that two
Speaker 1: couples have to be willing to wrestle with. I think
Speaker 1: that for us we have defined our a healthy and
Speaker 1: successful relationship not necessarily with it being contingent on either
Speaker 1: of us being whole twenty four or seven, but rather
Speaker 1: us taking seriously the moments where our brokenness appears, and
Speaker 1: doing the work to make sure that we are aware
Speaker 1: of how our brokenness shows up, and pursuing health and
Speaker 1: counsel on the best way to navigate the reality of
Speaker 1: that brokenness in the context of our relationships, what healing
Speaker 1: do we need, What boundaries do we need? What perspectives
Speaker 1: do we need to avail ourselves to in order for
Speaker 1: that to work, and do I just leave his healing
Speaker 1: in God's end? Absolutely, pray for him, pray with him,
Speaker 1: pray about him, pray over him, pray under him, pray
Speaker 1: around him. I certainly think that you should pray about
Speaker 1: his healing and what it means for you to be
Speaker 1: married to him in this state. I think the question
Speaker 1: that we have to be willing to ask ourselves over
Speaker 1: and over again is, like God, if nothing at all changes,
Speaker 1: who would I need to become in order to stay
Speaker 1: in this situation? Who would I need to become? And
Speaker 1: how does that align with how you see me? And
Speaker 1: if it doesn't align, then God.
Speaker 4: Helped me to.
Speaker 1: Inspire an environment for him and for me that best
Speaker 1: aligns with your vision for our life.
Speaker 4: And that is no tall order.
Speaker 1: So we're sending you a floating because baby, that's some
Speaker 1: real rescuing. But he is more than nay you. Somebody
Speaker 1: has missed me singing. If you're new to this podcast,
Speaker 1: you haven't missed me. If you're old school to this podcast,
Speaker 1: you have missed me saying he is more that a
Speaker 1: bull play worship music in the house, play just have
Speaker 1: on random podcasts and men who went to therapy, black
Speaker 1: men or child. What if he ain't black men who
Speaker 1: went to therapy and then you know, learn things like
Speaker 1: just create a space where it's normalized. I'm praying for you, friends,
Speaker 1: I'm praying for all of us as we dare to
Speaker 1: become power in God in whatever context that looks like.
Speaker 1: And so Holy Spirit, I just asked that you would
Speaker 1: fall on our hearts, that you would transform our minds,
Speaker 1: that you would heal our past and lead us in
Speaker 1: the direction.
Speaker 4: Of our future.
Speaker 1: God, I pray for every person on the other side
Speaker 1: of this prayer that they would come to experience your truth,
Speaker 1: your path, your play, your ways, and that it would
Speaker 1: be so undeniably intriguing that they decide it's worth living
Speaker 1: for worth obeying for worth hurting for worth saying goodbye
Speaker 1: and stepping away from things that don't serve them. For
Speaker 1: there is no greater gift than to be in partnership
Speaker 1: with You and the Earth. And so God, I thank
Speaker 1: you for Jesus, and thank you for making him who
Speaker 1: had no sin. All of our sins, all of our weaknesses,
Speaker 1: all of our limitations. You placed them in his body
Speaker 1: and nailed it to the cross.
Speaker 4: And when he was.
Speaker 1: Raised up, free and victorious, we were raised up too,
Speaker 1: with the ability to become powerful in You, and I
Speaker 1: thank you God that we are yet tapping into that
Speaker 1: power and releasing it into the world. Help us to
Speaker 1: keep digging in Jesus' name. Amen, More incredible interviews coming up.
Speaker 1: I've been in my bag. Can't wait to show you
Speaker 1: what I found. Talk to you next week.