Speaker 1: As a lead fifteen to ten touchdown Chargers.
Speaker 2: Once of guys welcome into it.
Speaker 3: Bring a new episode of Chargers Weekly as always joined
Speaker 3: by Matt Buddy Smith. We are twenty eight days away
Speaker 3: from the twenty twenty four NFL Draft, so much to
Speaker 3: dive into. Obviously a lot of draft speculation, but the
Speaker 3: lead this week was Jim Harball speaking at the Otter's Meetings.
Speaker 3: He spoke for about thirty five minutes or so, and Buddy,
Speaker 3: I have a lot of thoughts. First of all, excuse
Speaker 3: the audio. My computer has crashed multiple times. I've put
Speaker 3: money through the wringer through the last twenty five minutes,
Speaker 3: so I apologize if my audio is a little little
Speaker 3: tiney this week. I apologize. But Buddy, like I said,
Speaker 3: I have a lot of thoughts on Jim Harpball, and
Speaker 3: I know you do too. I'll beat you the floor first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think first and foremost. It's a reminder of
Speaker 1: how many football lives you know, Coach Harboys lived. Based
Speaker 1: on that thirty plus minutes that he delivered, I ended
Speaker 1: up watching a handful of the pressers from general managers
Speaker 1: and head coaches, and the one thing that you notice
Speaker 1: is just the number of different voices asking him questions,
Speaker 1: the number of different people gathered behind him, all the
Speaker 1: different lines of questioning a lot, obviously the majority about
Speaker 1: the Chargers and moving forward, but also about the forty
Speaker 1: nine Ers and twenty eleven in his first year, and
Speaker 1: how did you flip a team that went six and
Speaker 1: ten to thirteen and three and what were the keys
Speaker 1: to success there? And can you apply those to twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four and a Chargers team that was five and twelve.
Speaker 1: There were a ton of questions about success at Michigan
Speaker 1: and developing players and three star players that are now
Speaker 1: or two stars or five star whatever it was, that
Speaker 1: are now perhaps going to put together the most number
Speaker 1: of players selected from a single school in a single
Speaker 1: NFL draft. It's very likely that that's going to happen
Speaker 1: with Michigan this year. So to me, that was my
Speaker 1: number one takeaway, just as a big picture in the macro,
Speaker 1: what I noticed is here's someone who has had so
Speaker 1: much success at so many different places, and everybody is
Speaker 1: trying to tap into how do you do it? How
Speaker 1: did you do it there? How did you do it here?
Speaker 1: And how are you planning on doing it here? And
Speaker 1: it's a reminder of what the Charger's got, how lucky
Speaker 1: we are to have coach harbab back in the league,
Speaker 1: and especially for us selfishly lucky to have him as
Speaker 1: the head coach of the Bolts.
Speaker 3: So money Jim said a lot. Let's start with the
Speaker 3: draft because there's a potential that top four picks could
Speaker 3: be quarterbacks, including one of his ja j O lccarthy.
Speaker 2: Pick a great player at five.
Speaker 4: There's gonna be a great player at five, you know,
Speaker 4: in some ways now there could be there's talk of
Speaker 4: you know, four quarterbacks going in the first four picks,
Speaker 4: where if that happens, that then that pick really becomes
Speaker 4: like the number one pick in the draft. If four
Speaker 4: quarterbacks go in the first four picks, that's not like
Speaker 4: the fifth pick anymore. That's like it's like the number
Speaker 4: one pick of the draft for teams that you know,
Speaker 4: have a great quarterback already.
Speaker 2: So we'll see. I mean, then maybe there's a.
Speaker 4: Maybe there's a maybe the first maybe four quarterbacks don't
Speaker 4: go in a row, and it's unprecedented that's ever happened,
Speaker 4: but maybe there's still another quarterback there when the fifth
Speaker 4: pick comes around and somebody wants to again, that would
Speaker 4: be like the number one pick, wouldn't be like the
Speaker 4: calculator for the fifth pick anymore.
Speaker 3: So I think that there's a method to Jim's madness
Speaker 3: while also believing he thinks that JJ is one of
Speaker 3: the top quarterbacks in this draft. But that directly benefits
Speaker 3: the Chargers because you essentially get a lot of other
Speaker 3: teams who already are set a quarterback would really hold
Speaker 3: the number one overall pick in the draft at five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what he's saying. And I think there's two
Speaker 1: things to take away from that, Chris. Number one is
Speaker 1: something that we've talked about repeatedly here and really most
Speaker 1: recently on the last pod based on Daniel jeremiahs mock,
Speaker 1: and we said, hey, if the Jets are coming up
Speaker 1: from ten and all they're offering is a twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five to two, that ain't going to get it done.
Speaker 1: And that's essentially what Jim said at the bat, what
Speaker 1: Coach said at the back end of that clip we
Speaker 1: just played, is we either have the number one non
Speaker 1: quarterback in the draft at number five, or we've got
Speaker 1: one of the top four quarterbacks that now it appears
Speaker 1: as though teams are trying to jockey to draft. So
Speaker 1: if you want number five, he's subtly saying, we're open
Speaker 1: for business. We are interested in talking to you if
Speaker 1: you want to come up and get number five. But
Speaker 1: then he also adds there he used the word calculator.
Speaker 1: I think what people would be most familiar with is
Speaker 1: trade chart. But he said, hey, the calculator ain't what
Speaker 1: it used to be. Yeah, he's saying, you are not
Speaker 1: going to say this pick is worth seventeen hundred and
Speaker 1: our pick ten is worth twelve to fifty, and so
Speaker 1: we're going to give you two next year. No, he's saying,
Speaker 1: is this is not your standard low rent department store.
Speaker 1: This is not the store you want to come shop
Speaker 1: for pick number five. You're shopping on Rodale Drive, and
Speaker 1: you're going to pay a premium. So be prepared to
Speaker 1: pay a premium if you want us to get out
Speaker 1: of here, because that's what it's going to cost you.
Speaker 1: You're either taking a quarterback or you're taking the number
Speaker 1: one non quarterback in the draft. And I think, just
Speaker 1: quickly to say the other side of things, Chris is
Speaker 1: he saying, hey, pretty good place for us to be
Speaker 1: with Justin Herbert, right, I get to select what is
Speaker 1: perhaps the best player in the draft, because everybody puts
Speaker 1: a premium on quarterbacks. Now at number five, if four
Speaker 1: quarterbacks go, we get our choice. We get to take
Speaker 1: who we think is the best player in this draft.
Speaker 1: And that is how fortunate we are with this particular pick.
Speaker 1: And then if that is the case, Chris, I think
Speaker 1: that's where the conversation becomes very interesting in that room
Speaker 1: for that fifteen minutes if they decide they're not being
Speaker 1: offered enough to trade out and they do stick and pick.
Speaker 3: So if you're at number five overall, you're Chargers, And
Speaker 3: that makes for an interesting conversation. As you said, we
Speaker 3: talk about all the teams that are going to potentially
Speaker 3: trade up for a quarterback. Listen, we've seen teams trade
Speaker 3: up for other positions as well, wide receiver. I remember
Speaker 3: Marcus Stavenport didn't the Saints give up a lot to
Speaker 3: get him. So is somebody willing to trade the farm
Speaker 3: for Marvin Harrison Junior?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Marvin Harrison Junior could be a guy that many teams
Speaker 3: view as the missing piece to their own defense. Or
Speaker 3: is Marvin Harrison Junior a generational talent? That the Chargers say, hey,
Speaker 3: we just lost Mike Waves and Keenan Allen. Let's bring
Speaker 3: this guy in on a rookie deal and expect all
Speaker 3: pro leg production in his first three or four years
Speaker 3: at a fraction of the cost. So you're right, they're
Speaker 3: sitting pretty right now. And it's just it's a matter
Speaker 3: of if anybody's willing to play ball, and if not,
Speaker 3: who's the best player on your board? And from the
Speaker 3: conversations we had an Indiana, it seems to me that
Speaker 3: the wide receivers are the best players overall on the
Speaker 3: board compared to any of a position with the top ten.
Speaker 1: That's what it feels like. And and I think you
Speaker 1: hit a lot of things there, and particularly that someone
Speaker 1: would probably be willing to give up quite a handsome
Speaker 1: sum to come up and get Marvin Harrison Junior if
Speaker 1: he's there. I know that there's and you know Malik
Speaker 1: Neighbors pro Day, he lit it up a four three
Speaker 1: five forty forty two inch vertical. I know all of
Speaker 1: those explosives are there because you could see it on tape.
Speaker 1: You knew that that's what he was going to do.
Speaker 1: But and some people are saying, look, there's teams that
Speaker 1: have Malik Neighbors as the number one receiver, Chris Simms
Speaker 1: has them as his number one receiver. It still feels like,
Speaker 1: for the most part, it's Marvin Harrison Junior. It still
Speaker 1: feels like people view him as a transcendent generational type talent.
Speaker 1: And that's why if it goes quarterbacks one through four,
Speaker 1: that's why I think it gets real interesting. And I
Speaker 1: have no idea what the Chargers board is going to
Speaker 1: look like. Who they have as the top rated player.
Speaker 1: What is the gap between Marvin Harrison Junior and Malik
Speaker 1: Nighbors and Roma Dunes, And then when you get into
Speaker 1: that second tier Brian Thomas and Roman Wilson and Kean
Speaker 1: Coleman like all of these players, aladm Lance McConkey, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what that looks like, but you know
Speaker 1: that's where the debate comes in, Like, hey, is Marvin Harrison.
Speaker 1: Let's just say it's a ladder with ten rungs. Is
Speaker 1: he on the tenth rung at the top, and then
Speaker 1: the next wide receiver is on rung six or the
Speaker 1: next player is on rung seven, And that's where they'd
Speaker 1: be like, we have to stick and pick I know
Speaker 1: you want the old lineman, you know, and I know
Speaker 1: you want to build through the trenches. And maybe you
Speaker 1: really like this corner and you know you like Mitchell
Speaker 1: or you like Arnold. But if we just play this out,
Speaker 1: if we are to string this out to best possible outcome,
Speaker 1: we believe this is the next Larry Fitzgerald. That's who
Speaker 1: we think Marvin Harrison Junior is. So I told you
Speaker 1: I can get you the next Larry. What we have
Speaker 1: evaluated to be someone that is of that caliber, is
Speaker 1: of that professionalism, is that polished, has that well rounded
Speaker 1: of a game. Right now, if I told you, best
Speaker 1: case this guy is going to be Larry fitz and
Speaker 1: you've got him for the next fifteen years, are you
Speaker 1: really comfortable taking best case scenario the best right tackle
Speaker 1: in football? What do you want that's your Let's say
Speaker 1: Joe Walt becomes the best right tackle in football, or
Speaker 1: I give you Larry Fitzgerald for fifteen years. And that's
Speaker 1: a tough conversation. And that's the type of conversation that
Speaker 1: we're talking about. If they can't trade out of that spot,
Speaker 1: that they're going to have to have, and it is
Speaker 1: not an easy one. I would assume.
Speaker 3: That's the thing.
Speaker 2: Joe Walt.
Speaker 3: I think he played exclusively at left tackle at Notre Dame. Correct,
Speaker 3: so we haven't seen him at right tackle. History lesson
Speaker 3: for Chargers fans. All right, September first, nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 3: do we know what happened on that day? Marvin Harris
Speaker 3: Senior caught his first touchdown pass from Jim Harball as
Speaker 3: a member of the Indianapolis Colts. Jim Harball has seen
Speaker 3: Marvin Harrison Junior across the field for a few years
Speaker 3: at Ohio State. You think Jim Harbond knows a thing
Speaker 3: or two about Marvin Harrison Senior and Marvin Harrison Junior.
Speaker 3: So it really comes down to that, like if if
Speaker 3: Jim thinks that this is a generational player that I
Speaker 3: can pair with my franchise quarterback for the next several years,
Speaker 3: and we can kick the can when it comes to
Speaker 3: giving him that that thirty five or forty million dollars
Speaker 3: a year, money that he's going to probably command when
Speaker 3: his first contract is up. I think that's I think
Speaker 3: that's a pretty nice constellation prize at number five. As
Speaker 3: you take Marvin Harrison, Marvin Harrison Junior and again Welllique
Speaker 3: Napers is in that conversation rope with Doonsday. A lot
Speaker 3: of people like him just as much. But it's just
Speaker 3: it is an interesting and I think a very appealing
Speaker 3: situation for the Chargers. And now it's just a matter
Speaker 3: of does anybody want to play ball? Because if they
Speaker 3: do want to play ball, then I think the conversation
Speaker 3: gets really interesting. Money about getting a guy league for Wanga,
Speaker 3: maybe at eleven and then and then getting best player
Speaker 3: available at twenty three. Maybe that is a wide receiver.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's a guy like Brian Thomas or or you know, right,
Speaker 3: you get an extra second or whatever. So that's that's
Speaker 3: kind of where we are right now. And I just
Speaker 3: find it fascinating. And I think that Jim is doing
Speaker 3: break work for JJ, but he's also doing great work
Speaker 3: for the Chargers.
Speaker 1: No doubt. I mean, look look at the odds on JJ.
Speaker 1: You know, it's plus twenty five hundred to go number two,
Speaker 1: and then word leaks out of the league meetings that
Speaker 1: Washington is incredibly sweet on him, and now he's at
Speaker 1: plus four hundred to go number two overall. And I
Speaker 1: don't think there's any question if he ends up going
Speaker 1: to you're gonna have teams falling over themselves to try
Speaker 1: to get up for Drake may or Jayden Daniels. So
Speaker 1: I do think that that's the case that you know,
Speaker 1: is a team willing to trade up for JJ. It
Speaker 1: does sound like he's got fans that that are starting
Speaker 1: to buy what what Jim Harsball has been trying to
Speaker 1: tell us, And that's look, this guy's it, man. He
Speaker 1: just did not He did what he was asked. He
Speaker 1: did not have to put on a show like some
Speaker 1: of these other quarterbacks because of the offense that he
Speaker 1: was in. But like just to put a rap on
Speaker 1: that particular you know, piece of audio from coach, I
Speaker 1: still think what I what my number one takeaway is
Speaker 1: they really want to trade out. They really want to
Speaker 1: trade out and continue to to amass more picks and
Speaker 1: try to extract a premium because that look, that's and
Speaker 1: I think it's and I said I was, I was
Speaker 1: kind of spitting out a bunch of names. You know,
Speaker 1: at the wide receiver position, there is still there is
Speaker 1: still an Addie Mitchell, there is still Lad McConkey, There
Speaker 1: is still Roman Wilson. There are guys that are going
Speaker 1: to be sitting there when they pick at thirty seven,
Speaker 1: that that are that are probably highly graded and might
Speaker 1: even be like back end of the first round level
Speaker 1: greats on some of these guys, And so I think
Speaker 1: that's something to kind of keep in mind in terms
Speaker 1: of how they want to play this thing. But that's
Speaker 1: sort of just to put a button on it. That's
Speaker 1: sort of what I'm trying to if I'm going to
Speaker 1: read anything into it. It's not, Hey, I'm excited to
Speaker 1: make a pick at five and have my selection of
Speaker 1: all the non quarterbacks. No, it's more come give us
Speaker 1: a premium, because that's a win as well. If the
Speaker 1: chart says that pick five is worth seventeen hundred and
Speaker 1: the combination of eleven and twenty three, let's just say
Speaker 1: that it's Minnesota that decides the trade up. Because you know,
Speaker 1: Arizona sticks and takes Marvin Harrison Junior and they offer
Speaker 1: you eleven and twenty three, you're basically getting a free
Speaker 1: third rounder. That's what the trade chart says. You should
Speaker 1: be giving away your first and your third to get
Speaker 1: eleven and twenty three. Instead, you say, no, we're not
Speaker 1: giving you the third. Just give us eleven and twenty
Speaker 1: three if you want five, and so that's I think
Speaker 1: you have to view that as a win, like that's
Speaker 1: that's a win for this front office. They have managed
Speaker 1: to win the trade value, you know, battle between these
Speaker 1: two teams in this exchange. If that makes sense, no.
Speaker 2: Doubt it does.
Speaker 3: We'll stick with the wide receiver position because he had
Speaker 3: a great quote about Keenan. You're making twenty three million
Speaker 3: dollars and you get to play in Chicago. Who's got
Speaker 3: it better? And it's it's true, who's kind of better?
Speaker 2: Man? It's it's in it's business. He said.
Speaker 3: It's very it's very transparent. This is what it is. Uh,
Speaker 3: and you know, we talked about this last week. It's
Speaker 3: very transparent in terms of what the cap number was
Speaker 3: and what needed to be done to that position in
Speaker 3: order to be CALF compliant and then kind of rebuild
Speaker 3: your roster and it'd be healthy throughout, you know, the
Speaker 3: next several years when it comes to your cap. So
Speaker 3: he praised Keenan out the door. He said, a great
Speaker 3: deal for Mike getting fifteen million year, but that leads
Speaker 3: to a different looking wide receiver room.
Speaker 4: And he talked about really excited about Quentin his opportunity
Speaker 4: josh Palmer, Darius Uh. And then it's still it's not
Speaker 4: even April yet. Now we've got the draft comment and.
Speaker 2: In free agency too. Free agency.
Speaker 4: Freegency lasts, you know, before the draft, after the draft.
Speaker 3: So buddy, you've been very high on Joshua Palmer. I'm
Speaker 3: right there with you. Quinton Johnson. Uh, we hope commit
Speaker 3: that that next league. But Jim said, but we said
Speaker 3: last week it's March. The room still is TBD when
Speaker 3: it comes to free agency, the second and third wave
Speaker 3: the draft, So don't panic yet. Just because two big
Speaker 3: wide shooters are out the door helps.
Speaker 2: On the way.
Speaker 1: And I think he you know in that in that
Speaker 1: statement he acknowledged the wide receiver room's not complete. I
Speaker 1: know that we know that, but like you said, he
Speaker 1: acknowledged it's early. Every you know, the first wave of
Speaker 1: free agency is not the only wave you've got post June.
Speaker 1: First cuts for teams that may move on from a
Speaker 1: very good wide receiver. You know, the compensatory picks do
Speaker 1: not go past the I think it's the Monday following
Speaker 1: the draft. So once you get to that point, you know,
Speaker 1: now you're compensatory formulas. I don't think it's June first anymore.
Speaker 1: I want to say they changed it to be like
Speaker 1: the first. It's either like the Tuesday or the Monday
Speaker 1: after the draft, I think, is what it's at. So
Speaker 1: now you don't have to pay into the compensatory pool
Speaker 1: for signing these guys post drafts, So post June first cuts,
Speaker 1: compensatory pick, you know, adjustments there. You know, there is
Speaker 1: plenty of work to do. He acknowledged that and said
Speaker 1: it's early. It's early. We have still got a second
Speaker 1: wave of free agency. He mentioned the draft specifically, So
Speaker 1: I think for all the people that feel as though
Speaker 1: we've sort of been preaching he doesn't care about wide receivers.
Speaker 1: He's not interested in populating. No, that's not what he's saying.
Speaker 1: He's just saying, slow down, we're good, we got you,
Speaker 1: we're good. Stop saying that we've got the worst wide
Speaker 1: receiver room in the league. You know, not fair to
Speaker 1: what we think they could be. These players could be.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, this is not a complete
Speaker 1: room yet. So let's wait until training camp August first
Speaker 1: before we start freaking out and castigating the front office
Speaker 1: and the coaching staff for what it looks like right now.
Speaker 1: Because they're not going to play a meaningful game for
Speaker 1: another five months.
Speaker 3: After we did our pod last week, I really got
Speaker 3: to thinking about some of the stuff that we talked about,
Speaker 3: but with just regards to Justin's numbers and stats and players.
Speaker 3: And again you're used to guys like Keenan and Mike
Speaker 3: being on the roster, and when I say this, I'm
Speaker 3: not taking any anything away from those players, but I
Speaker 3: just go back to that Jacksonville game up twenty seven
Speaker 3: to nothing, and would Jim Harball led team blow that lead.
Speaker 3: Absolutely not like it just it wouldn't happen. Austin had
Speaker 3: average like two point seven yards per carrying that game.
Speaker 3: Mike Williams was not in that game. Keenan Allen six
Speaker 3: catches sixty one yards. Again, I know that that's one game,
Speaker 3: but it's a playoff game. So I think that when
Speaker 3: you look at Jim Harball coming in, you have to
Speaker 3: let Jim do what he does best, and that's remake
Speaker 3: the roster and his image, set a culture of winning
Speaker 3: because Chargers fans are here will win. Like I get
Speaker 3: that there hasn't been a ton of winning in January,
Speaker 3: you know, over the last several years, but it's it's
Speaker 3: time to let Jim Harball take the reins of this
Speaker 3: program and remake this roster. Jeff Miller asked to me,
Speaker 3: because do you think you can do it in a year?
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna take longer than a year. But
Speaker 3: Jim says, I think we can, you know. And that's
Speaker 3: that's what's happening right now, the second and third wave
Speaker 3: of free agency. I think Jim and Joe Ortiz are
Speaker 3: sitting back seeing what's out there, seeing what they can
Speaker 3: get at certain positions, and then really trying to stack
Speaker 3: these draft picks, develop these guys as soon as possible,
Speaker 3: so the culture is going to be set. And he
Speaker 3: and he even mentioned that I someone else asked him
Speaker 3: about just you know, are you guys there yet? He said, well,
Speaker 3: April second, April second, April second. I can't wait to
Speaker 3: get April second, because that's when he can get his
Speaker 3: hands on the players. So there's a long way to go.
Speaker 3: But I don't know. I just look at some of
Speaker 3: the guys who were who were on this team, who
Speaker 3: did incredible work and put up great stats, and just
Speaker 3: because they're gone doesn't mean you can't win.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Just kind of going back to that
Speaker 1: to that game, right you're up twenty seven to zero
Speaker 1: and you find a way to you know, find defeat
Speaker 1: from the hands of victory. And it was. It's one
Speaker 1: of the one of the worst meltdowns in NFL postseason history.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's how bad it was. And so I
Speaker 1: want to give credit to at m ib PG two.
Speaker 1: MiB PBJ two is the is the Twitter feed that
Speaker 1: posted this, and it's great. He talked about the Chargers
Speaker 1: offense run heavy. People you know, concerned about Herbert and
Speaker 1: his involvement are saying, what's the point of even having
Speaker 1: Herbert trade them away for multiple first that's how you're
Speaker 1: going to run it and have a game manager that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. So he went through it and did
Speaker 1: a heck of a job because he points out, yes,
Speaker 1: Harball with the forty nine Ers was run heavy. If
Speaker 1: you look at it in totality, fourth most run heavy offense.
Speaker 1: But if you break it down by halves, you will
Speaker 1: find that in the first half he is league average
Speaker 1: in run percentage. What happens is in the second half
Speaker 1: in games that they are winning, the graph shoots through
Speaker 1: the roof. This is someone who is so good at
Speaker 1: run game execution that the second they had a lead
Speaker 1: in the second half, I'll I'll read it verbatim because
Speaker 1: he did such a perfect job of explaining it. It's
Speaker 1: as if they wait until halftime to decide to whether
Speaker 1: decide whether to alter their game plan, and then do
Speaker 1: so dramatically. I am comparing it here to other teams
Speaker 1: that span win percentage and rush percentage, wins and losses
Speaker 1: overlaid on the same plot. And when you look at it,
Speaker 1: imagine a wishbone from a turkey turned on its side.
Speaker 1: That's what it looks like. When they're winning, it spikes
Speaker 1: dramatically because they're so good at running the ball and
Speaker 1: running the four minute offense and making sure they pound
Speaker 1: that team into submission and maintain their lead. When they're losing,
Speaker 1: they throw it and they're trying to play catch up.
Speaker 1: But the point is is this is a team that
Speaker 1: wants to run the ball to win the game. We're
Speaker 1: going to get a lead, and we're going to get
Speaker 1: it with a balanced offense. But the second we get it,
Speaker 1: when we build that lead and we have that advantage,
Speaker 1: no one's going to be better at holding it than
Speaker 1: we are. And that's why you need the offensive line,
Speaker 1: and that's why you need the run game, because you
Speaker 1: don't want to give the lead up. You want to
Speaker 1: be able to flip and while the other team is chasing,
Speaker 1: you're taking the air out of the ball. You're pounding
Speaker 1: them into submission with run plays and successful run plays.
Speaker 1: And that's that was the formula in San Francisco. It
Speaker 1: wasn't we're playing it safe from kickoff to the final whistle. No,
Speaker 1: it's second half is when it really kicked in. And
Speaker 1: god knows how many second halves and how many leads
Speaker 1: did Justin Herbert have in the fourth quarter on an
Speaker 1: offense when either the defense couldn't hold or the offense
Speaker 1: couldn't hold the ball long enough to spell the defense
Speaker 1: to make sure that that win was a win and
Speaker 1: it didn't turn into a loss.
Speaker 3: Well money, what a great segue into our final SoundBite
Speaker 3: from Jim Arball talking about the offensive line.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I asked you the question of like,
Speaker 2: what position group.
Speaker 4: Depends on no other position group to be good, but
Speaker 4: every other position group depends on them to be good,
Speaker 4: you know what position group is that offensive line. They're
Speaker 4: not relying on any other position group to be good.
Speaker 4: They go out and they're good, But yet every other
Speaker 4: group relies on the offensive line.
Speaker 2: To be good. And then the d line they're like,
Speaker 2: they'll be the ones that argue back, Yeah.
Speaker 4: We don't know, we don't need the offensive line to
Speaker 4: be good. Do you do you like do you like
Speaker 4: when I when the offense has a twelve play drive
Speaker 4: and you know the field position?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, you're right. You know it's like so yeah, that.
Speaker 4: Building that you know, building that uh you know kind
Speaker 4: of offensive line that's exciting.
Speaker 3: So I know we've said it the last few weeks
Speaker 3: straight from the horse's mouth there you think that offensive
Speaker 3: line plays important for the LA Chargers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And and it's a great point. And the
Speaker 1: second I saw it, I immediately wanted to get it
Speaker 1: out there because it's not just understand folks, I see,
Speaker 1: I get it. I enjoy that you interact with me,
Speaker 1: but like the idea that I am hell bent on
Speaker 1: drafting an offensive lineman at number five or with the
Speaker 1: first pick, or that's not what we're discussing here. All
Speaker 1: we're doing is talking about what we think this regime
Speaker 1: wants to do and how they want to build the
Speaker 1: team and how they believe it's going to be successful.
Speaker 1: And there's a reason why that SoundBite. Here we are
Speaker 1: three days later from him saying it, and it's still
Speaker 1: making the rounds. People are still cutting it up, Coaches
Speaker 1: are cutting it up and sending it out big time
Speaker 1: media people in football are cutting it up and sending
Speaker 1: it out. Why because it's true, Because it rings true.
Speaker 1: Everything he said there is what if you talk to
Speaker 1: football people, they will tell you is the foundation of success.
Speaker 1: Offensive line. If you cannot block, you cannot throw. If
Speaker 1: you can't block, you can't open up to run the ball.
Speaker 1: If you can't run the ball, you have three and outs,
Speaker 1: and now your defense is on the field. And that's
Speaker 1: funny part about that last part of that clip, because
Speaker 1: you know, I love that he did the whole voice
Speaker 1: thing too, like oh on the defensive lines, Like no,
Speaker 1: what about us? And he's like, Hey, you don't like
Speaker 1: twelve play drives. You don't like sitting over here and
Speaker 1: catching your breath and getting ready to go out there
Speaker 1: and pinning your ears back and going to get after
Speaker 1: someone because the offense just had a twelve play drive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's winning football. That's exactly what that clip is
Speaker 1: that clip is winning football, and maybe he believes he
Speaker 1: already has it. Maybe on April second, you said the date, Chris,
Speaker 1: he thinks that McFadden in Zion and Sawyer and Pipkins
Speaker 1: and Slater and Bozeman now and he even talked about
Speaker 1: McFadden is potentially being a really great center. Ch that
Speaker 1: maybe he thinks he already has it.
Speaker 2: But if he.
Speaker 1: Doesn't, if he doesn't think he has it, I can
Speaker 1: tell you right now what they're gonna do, because it's
Speaker 1: right there on that SoundBite. He in order for anything
Speaker 1: else to work, he needs to make sure his offensive
Speaker 1: line can be successful. So much of it is going
Speaker 1: to come down to his evaluation. Coach Devlin, coach Hardwick's
Speaker 1: evaluation of what they believe this offensive line is and
Speaker 1: how successful it can be. And if they think it
Speaker 1: can be successful, then we can talk about Marvin Harrison Junior.
Speaker 1: But I think if if they don't think it can
Speaker 1: be successful, then to me, that clip says essentially what
Speaker 1: his football philosophy is and what likely they need to do.
Speaker 3: He said, he goes he has won two, three, four, five, right,
Speaker 3: so five positions on the offensive line, we don't wan
Speaker 3: locked right, Rashaun Slater's locked U. There are so many
Speaker 3: young guys on this roster though, money that I believe
Speaker 3: like Zion Johnson Jamari saw your Trey Piftons. He mentioned
Speaker 3: Jordan mcfedd and what he liked towards the back half
Speaker 3: of the year. I firmly believe that he firmly believes
Speaker 3: he can get some some more out of these young
Speaker 3: guys and they haven't hit their potential yet. Now they
Speaker 3: may be looking for a certain type of offensive linemen
Speaker 3: that maybe not on the roster right now. And I
Speaker 3: know it's it's easy for fans for when we talk
Speaker 3: about offensive line to gravitate towards number five overall and
Speaker 3: be like, oh no, no, no, no offensive I've been there.
Speaker 3: But if you trade out, there's a lot of good guys,
Speaker 3: you can get an extra pick. There's a lot of
Speaker 3: depth in the second and third rounds, maybe finding your
Speaker 3: future center or another just nasty guard or right tackle
Speaker 3: to compliment with Shaan. So it's it's funny because when
Speaker 3: you talk about offensive line, it seems like there's a
Speaker 3: little bit of pushback thinking that that's gonna be the
Speaker 3: pick at five, and there's really no consensus tackle at
Speaker 3: the top, even though it's really deep and there's a
Speaker 3: lot of potential options, but he said it right that
Speaker 3: that's where it all starts, and that's how this I think.
Speaker 3: I think the trench is too in general, that's just
Speaker 3: gonna be remade. You know, he mentioned he loves he goes.
Speaker 3: I'm a coach. I'm thrilled to have Joey Bosa and
Speaker 3: I'm thrilled to have Khalil Mack. But those guys are
Speaker 3: on the back nine here in l a And and
Speaker 3: it's time to restock both sides of the of the lines,
Speaker 3: offensive end, defensive lines. And I think you're gonna find
Speaker 3: that the draft is going to be the number one
Speaker 3: well to go to when you're addressing both of those.
Speaker 1: You know, the one thing to remember too is it's
Speaker 1: not a one pick draft. It's right as it stands
Speaker 1: right now, it's a nine pick draft, and I would
Speaker 1: assume they want to make nine, ten or eleven. We've
Speaker 1: said that before, So remember, when it comes to their evaluation,
Speaker 1: it's going to be what is my gap? You rarely
Speaker 1: will find and it happens. Don't get me wrong. There
Speaker 1: are players out there that have been taken in the
Speaker 1: third round or the second round that turn into really
Speaker 1: really good players. But I think ultimately it's okay if
Speaker 1: we pass on a tackle here, if if we're now
Speaker 1: out of the alt Fishanufuaga, Latham, Mims, Guiden Business. You know,
Speaker 1: those are the six that are expected to go in
Speaker 1: the first round. The tackles, Okay, what are we looking
Speaker 1: at in the second and third What are our grades
Speaker 1: on this next tier of tackle goals compared to all right,
Speaker 1: let's say we pass on Marvin Harrison Junior and we
Speaker 1: miss out on Malik Neighbors and Roma Dounza and Brian Thomas,
Speaker 1: kind of the ones that are projected to go in
Speaker 1: the first round. What is the gap and our grades
Speaker 1: between those guys and the names that I mentioned a
Speaker 1: little bit earlier, and Roman Wilson and Keon Coleman and
Speaker 1: Addie Mitchell and Troy Franklin and Xavier Get like to me,
Speaker 1: just look at you can go year after year after year.
Speaker 1: And again this is not my preference, understand, I'm just
Speaker 1: pointing out how the draft works happened last year. Pouka
Speaker 1: Nakou on the fifth, Rashi Rice in the second tank,
Speaker 1: Dell before he got hurt in the second. Compared to
Speaker 1: Smith and Jigba, Quinton Johnston, you know, Zay was so
Speaker 1: was probably was the best of you know those Jordan Addison,
Speaker 1: you know, those were the two that were the best
Speaker 1: of the first rounders. But were they better than Rashi Rice?
Speaker 1: Were they better than Puka Nakua?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And when you go year before aj Brown, DK Metcalf, like,
Speaker 1: just go, there are a million of these guys Cooper
Speaker 1: Cup in the third that get taken and that is
Speaker 1: the case Keenan Allen and the third because of injury.
Speaker 1: Like that's the thing is, you know, there are so
Speaker 1: many of those stories at wide receiver. There are very
Speaker 1: very very few at tackle. So that's that's the And
Speaker 1: again I bring it up because that's the debate they're
Speaker 1: going to be having in the room. That's what they're
Speaker 1: going to be talking about in that room when they're
Speaker 1: on the clock and there's a quarterback there maybe in
Speaker 1: a team or there's a team that wants Marvin Harrison
Speaker 1: Junior and we'll trade up and give you a haul
Speaker 1: and you feel like, all right, well we can trade
Speaker 1: back to X spot and still get this tackle that
Speaker 1: that we've got this grade on and it's almost the
Speaker 1: same grade as the wide receiver. So like that's again,
Speaker 1: remember it's not just a one pick draft. It's not
Speaker 1: just number five. It's what's the value of what we
Speaker 1: think we're gonna get it thirty thirty seven, and what's
Speaker 1: the value of our third rounder and our fourth rounder
Speaker 1: and our two fourth rounders. Now, so that's something important
Speaker 1: I think that you got to keep an eye on.
Speaker 3: It's a great point. It's not a one pick draft.
Speaker 3: It's not a one year draft either. You're not just
Speaker 3: drafting for twenty twenty four. And that's the thing I
Speaker 3: think the Ravens have been masterful at is developing players,
Speaker 3: getting players maybe a year ahead of time and knowing that. Okay,
Speaker 3: so for instance, let's say you let's just say the
Speaker 3: Vikings trade with the Chargers and you get some picks.
Speaker 3: You have eleven and twenty three. Now at eleven, Dallas
Speaker 3: Turner made look pretty appealing because Khalil Mack and Joey
Speaker 3: Bosa may not be here next year, so you pair
Speaker 3: him with Tuley for the next five years. Right, there's
Speaker 3: certain positions here, you know, Yeah, there's certain positions right
Speaker 3: where you're set, right, now, but you're not gonna be
Speaker 3: set in twenty twenty five or twenty twenty six, and
Speaker 3: you want to have the best players you could possibly
Speaker 3: have on your roster a quarter you mentioned, Mitchell, That's
Speaker 3: another position that I think we should discuss. Funny because
Speaker 3: right now that that corner room is incomplete as well,
Speaker 3: I think you could kind of put that on part
Speaker 3: with the wide receiver room as a work in progress.
Speaker 3: And do you do you attack that in the draft.
Speaker 3: You can't attack everything in the draft. I realize that,
Speaker 3: but that is also a position that I think is
Speaker 3: very important to a Jesse Minner defense that they were
Speaker 3: gonna they're gonna have to address in the second and
Speaker 3: third wave of free agency and then potentially in the.
Speaker 1: Draft early no doubt, you know. And I think there's
Speaker 1: you know, corner is a premium corner. D end tackle
Speaker 1: their premium positions they go high, you know, wide receiver
Speaker 1: they go high. So what I would imagine is if
Speaker 1: they feel like they can end up getting two premium
Speaker 1: positions in the first round, like you said, I for
Speaker 1: some reason, Minnesota, that's the one we have circled, I'd
Speaker 1: be I would be floored if Arizona didn't take that deal.
Speaker 1: If they don't get out of four to go back
Speaker 1: to eleven and get twenty three in the process. If
Speaker 1: somehow it works out that the Chargers are able to
Speaker 1: do that, they'll do it in It would take less
Speaker 1: than a second for them to say yes to that deal.
Speaker 1: And so that's and again that's what you're talking about, Chris.
Speaker 1: It's not just the offensive side. You got to play
Speaker 1: defense too. You know, how how did Buffalo and how
Speaker 1: did Baltimore stay in that game? Those playoff games with
Speaker 1: the Chiefs with good defense, They played them well, they
Speaker 1: played them tight, They made life hard on Patrick Mahomes. Defensively,
Speaker 1: you got to have corners to slow these wide receivers down.
Speaker 1: It's a wide receiver league. You better get someone that
Speaker 1: can slow them down. Think about how future the Jets
Speaker 1: offense was, and yet that defense kept them in all
Speaker 1: these games, you know, because they've got a lockdown and absence.
Speaker 1: You know, Sauce is a lock down corner, and they
Speaker 1: had pass rush up front, you know, with Huff and
Speaker 1: Quinn Williams and so that, and and yet that's a
Speaker 1: team where they win seven games.
Speaker 2: I think, like with that offense.
Speaker 1: No business with that offensive line, but they did it
Speaker 1: because they dominated defensively. So remember, there's there's so many
Speaker 1: different directions they can go with this thing. And that's
Speaker 1: why I think they would love to get more picks,
Speaker 1: especially if they can pick up another top fifty pick.
Speaker 1: If they can trade out of five and get two
Speaker 1: in the top fifty, to me, that's like a that's
Speaker 1: a jackpot for them for what they believe kind of
Speaker 1: are a couple deep positions where they still feel like, hey,
Speaker 1: let's not go too far back. You know, I think
Speaker 1: you probably want to stay in like that top fifteen range,
Speaker 1: maybe even top thirteen range, in order to get one
Speaker 1: of those blue chips that you feel like is out
Speaker 1: there either on the O line in the corner or
Speaker 1: the end the d tackle and Murphy, you know, and
Speaker 1: then pick up that extra top fifty pick and find another.
Speaker 3: Starter before we go. You know, we'll dig into the
Speaker 3: draft with some analysts as we get closer to April
Speaker 3: twenty fifth, but I want to talk to you about
Speaker 3: just this next wave or the next couple of months
Speaker 3: of free agency guys who were potentially out there, whether
Speaker 3: it be a running back. I saw you retweeted the
Speaker 3: JK Dobbins news, which I think isn't very intriguing considering
Speaker 3: the history of the Joe ortiz As with him, they
Speaker 3: needed the position, But you know, corners, guys like Xavian
Speaker 3: Howard is still out there, and some other guys that
Speaker 3: are veterans that you know, probably towards the end of
Speaker 3: their career. But somebody who could definitely fill a role,
Speaker 3: to fill a need in twenty twenty four or possibly
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, anybody that catches your eye when it
Speaker 3: comes to this current roster and what's needed at a
Speaker 3: lot of different positions.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you, Chris, I'm gonna take that question.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna flip it on its head because one of
Speaker 1: the things they don't need, the thing that we saw
Speaker 1: teams scrambling to get earlier this week and the Chargers
Speaker 1: did not have to worry about, was Corderyl Patterson. He
Speaker 1: was the most popular free agent in the NFL the
Speaker 1: second that kickoff rule passed. Soon as the new kickoff
Speaker 1: was instituted, and you went from a twenty percent return
Speaker 1: rate to a ninety percent return rate in the XFL
Speaker 1: is what they have had since they used that particular
Speaker 1: approach to kickoffs. Tip of the cap to Tom Telesco
Speaker 1: and his staff because you know, you know what I
Speaker 1: said about Darius Davis and the fourth I was like, Eh,
Speaker 1: you don't really have any kick returns anymore. I mean,
Speaker 1: it really is kind of paying a bit of a
Speaker 1: premium for someone who we don't know how much he's
Speaker 1: going to be used. Well, it turns out, obviously I
Speaker 1: was way wrong on that. One guy was a monster
Speaker 1: and punt returns returned one for a touchdown was electric
Speaker 1: every time he touched the ball. So now to have
Speaker 1: the player that the players voted as the best returner
Speaker 1: in football last year on your team in a new
Speaker 1: kickoff era where you have a ninety percent return rate
Speaker 1: and you retain Ryan Ficken, Coach Harbaugh comes in, meets
Speaker 1: with coach Ficken, recognizes, oh, we got one of the
Speaker 1: best special teams coaches around. Now you're going to need
Speaker 1: that because the whole new world out there. And so
Speaker 1: to me, that's that is a huge benefit for the
Speaker 1: Chargers because you're gonna see, like Xavier Worthy Stock went
Speaker 1: through the roof, you know, with that that four two
Speaker 1: out at the combine because of the new kickoff rules.
Speaker 1: Because now that play is going to be put in,
Speaker 1: you know, is going to be reintroduced. So that's that's
Speaker 1: a big, big win for the Chargers to have Darius
Speaker 1: Davis on this team now knowing how this is going
Speaker 1: to work moving forward, that the kickoff is back in play.
Speaker 3: He took one of the house in preseason like two
Speaker 3: days before or two days after we talked to him
Speaker 3: at training camp.
Speaker 2: Remember that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, he's an electric. He's one of the best
Speaker 1: in the league. And they've got him. So that's no
Speaker 1: doubt that is. And I think, really, Chris, you know,
Speaker 1: just when you ask, just to answer your question. Then
Speaker 1: on top of that, I think it's gonna be more
Speaker 1: the second wave. It's gonna be the post draft free agents.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be the post June first cuts. That's probably
Speaker 1: what we're I think. I think who's been signed his
Speaker 1: and signed. You know, That's why the cord Errol Patterson
Speaker 1: one was so funny because it just happened like that
Speaker 1: as soon as that rule passed, that dude was signed
Speaker 1: to a two year deal and no time at all.
Speaker 1: But outside of that, I think you're probably still going
Speaker 1: to see a lot of people slow playing it. You know,
Speaker 1: the Rams took that flyer on Tredavius White with the injury,
Speaker 1: and believe you know, have their doctors checked him out
Speaker 1: and thought that maybe he could get this thing back together.
Speaker 1: So if I had to guess, though, probably probably next
Speaker 1: wave is what we're going to be waiting on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's also you know, it's really in the players,
Speaker 3: the balls in the players court for a lot of
Speaker 3: guys like Justin Simmons and Xavier and Howard's where they
Speaker 3: it's where they want to go. It's they want to
Speaker 3: win a championship. And until you want exactly quickly on
Speaker 3: the Dobbins thing, well, I find him fascinating because he's
Speaker 3: twenty five. Take the injury risk out of it, because
Speaker 3: it is what it is. But if you take a
Speaker 3: flower on a guy like that, his first year was awesome.
Speaker 3: He after like over six yards of carry and since
Speaker 3: then he has no Mila Jarrm. He's has one hundred
Speaker 3: carries since that twenty twenty season. So you're knowing you're
Speaker 3: getting a guy who's coming off a major injury, especially
Speaker 3: for a running back. But if he looks as good
Speaker 3: as doctor del Alas Track says, he looks and he
Speaker 3: can come into camp and compete, man, Like, how about
Speaker 3: getting a guy on a discount. They can give you
Speaker 3: productivity that you've seen in twenty twenty and again, not
Speaker 3: a lot of miles on him since then.
Speaker 1: He's got juice. He has got juice.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: He if he's right, he's one of the best backs
Speaker 1: in the league. Just simply put, that's what he is.
Speaker 1: He is one of the best running backs in the
Speaker 1: league if he is right, and if because the acl
Speaker 1: and the achilles, you know, and he has just been
Speaker 1: struggled with injury, if that means he's got to take
Speaker 1: a prove it deal. What better room to take it in.
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, you know, we're going to run the ball.
Speaker 1: You know what Greg Roman wants to do. You know
Speaker 1: what Jim Harball wants to do. You know that Gus
Speaker 1: Edwards has has always been to some degree a complimentary
Speaker 1: back or a you know, he's not necessarily a workhorse,
Speaker 1: or at least he has not been. Now maybe that's
Speaker 1: what their vision is for him, but this is this
Speaker 1: could be your best opportunity. Like, hey, man, I know,
Speaker 1: I know these guys know how to run the ball.
Speaker 1: I know that Greg Roman knows how to call run
Speaker 1: and and I know that that Gus is a great
Speaker 1: compliment to me because he was there the year that
Speaker 1: I had my breakout.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So it's it lines up. If they're comfortable with it,
Speaker 1: and if the money's right, I absolutely one hundred percent
Speaker 1: would be all for it. Like we we've talked about
Speaker 1: it for weeks now, so hopefully that's that's one they
Speaker 1: can they can figure out. Now, who knows, maybe a
Speaker 1: team just believes that he's going to totally be fine
Speaker 1: and they give him a big money deal and that
Speaker 1: takes it off the table. I could totally see that too.
Speaker 1: I mean, look what Saquon got. The guys played. You know,
Speaker 1: he's played like four games in two different seasons. So yeah,
Speaker 1: never know, but but yeah, I'm all for it, all
Speaker 1: for it, all.
Speaker 3: Right, So guys, next week, we haven't done a Q
Speaker 3: and A in a while with our fans, so let's call.
Speaker 3: Let's let's that next week. Hit up me your money
Speaker 3: on the old X or Instagram or wherever wherever you're
Speaker 3: hanging out on social media, and we'll do that. Well,
Speaker 3: answer some questions next week, and you know, a lot
Speaker 3: to discuss as we get closer to the draft. But
Speaker 3: Jim gave us a lot of great material this week,
Speaker 3: and I think just further insight into what this Chargers
Speaker 3: team is all about entering this season and beyond. So
Speaker 3: anything else today.
Speaker 1: Money, that's it, man, All good. Appreciate all youse, Appreciate
Speaker 1: all the comments on the YouTube and in the Twitter
Speaker 1: and all that. Keep it coming, and like you said,
Speaker 1: next week, we'll we'll get to a bunch of.
Speaker 2: Them, no doubt.
Speaker 3: Apologies for the audio, especially to Mad Money Smith. You
Speaker 3: have no idea what he's been through for the last
Speaker 3: for the first twenty minutes, and well we'll get this setup.
Speaker 3: All good for next Thursday. For Matt Moddy Swift. I'm
Speaker 3: Chris Herey. This has been Chargers Weekly.