Speaker 1: This is Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty.
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, welcome to another episode of Let's Be Clear
Speaker 2: with Shannon Doherty. I have a ridiculously special guest today,
Speaker 2: Christina Ricci, who I absolutely adore.
Speaker 3: Hi. Hi, I'm so happy to be honest.
Speaker 2: I'm like thrilled that you're on. It's uh, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It brought like a huge smile to my face and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I love that girl.
Speaker 3: When you first announced it on your in the comments
Speaker 3: on your Instagram, I wrote, I want to be on,
Speaker 3: And then I was like, don't make this about you, Christina, please,
Speaker 3: So I like took it off and then waited a
Speaker 3: couple of days and then privately DMG, oh.
Speaker 1: You can totally make it about you. I'm fine with that.
Speaker 2: How did we meet? We met for the first time
Speaker 2: in New Zealand, right.
Speaker 3: In New Zealand at a con convention in New Zealand. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I was really appreciative because it was my first
Speaker 3: well no, it's my second convention. But I felt really
Speaker 3: insecure and you immediately took charge and where we like
Speaker 3: stole some pa to drive us home in her personal
Speaker 3: car because they were taking too long.
Speaker 4: To get the cars.
Speaker 2: It was gonna be like an hour. Wait, yeah, it
Speaker 2: was too much.
Speaker 4: It was good.
Speaker 3: It was good to see too, because now it taught,
Speaker 3: you know, I learned. I learned to be more you know,
Speaker 3: not forceful, but just like, no, we're getting out of here, resourceful.
Speaker 3: Let's say I learned to be a little bit more
Speaker 3: resourceful and not just do whatever I was told in
Speaker 3: those situations, which is very helpful.
Speaker 2: So here's what's kind of interesting to me is that
Speaker 2: we both were childhood actors. I mean, I know that
Speaker 2: you did Mermaids when you were nine, but what age
Speaker 2: were you when you first started.
Speaker 3: I first started, you know, I was almost eight, so
Speaker 3: seven but really almost eight, and I just started going,
Speaker 3: you know, the daily auditions every day after school. Would
Speaker 3: take the bus from New Jersey to New York and
Speaker 3: go to like three auditions a day and come home.
Speaker 3: And then I started doing commercials. I got sort of
Speaker 3: fired for my first commercial because I didn't like my
Speaker 3: mother and I did not respect how they had done
Speaker 3: my hair and my mom basically, you know, and so
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be perky and I wouldn't smile because they
Speaker 3: gave me this awful page. Boy that I just thought
Speaker 3: was really unflattering, and my mom kind of looked at
Speaker 3: me and was like, yeah, I wouldn't want to be
Speaker 3: on camera looking like that either, and so I never
Speaker 3: improved my attitude and they ultimately just let me go home.
Speaker 1: That is an amazing story.
Speaker 3: It was one of my first jobs, and I did
Speaker 3: a lot of like voiceovers and commercials, and I did
Speaker 3: one TV pilot and then I got Mermaids when I
Speaker 3: was nine years old, so.
Speaker 1: We have so much in common.
Speaker 2: So I remember I auditioned for a commercial when I
Speaker 2: was young, probably like you know, nine or something, and
Speaker 2: it was for a cereal I don't think it's around anymore.
Speaker 2: It was called houses or something, and I had like braids,
Speaker 2: long braids, and all these girls had their hair all
Speaker 2: like fluffed and pretty, and one of the moms turned
Speaker 2: to my mom and said, like, don't you want to
Speaker 2: take our hair down?
Speaker 1: And my mom was like, no, like she likes it
Speaker 1: in braids. She's a tomboy.
Speaker 2: And I went into the room and they took two
Speaker 2: kids at the same time to audition together but for
Speaker 2: the same part, and the one kid was just so
Speaker 2: energetic and like super chirpy, and I was just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: have these great cereal and they're like, can you be
Speaker 2: more energetic? And I'm like, I don't really eat this cereal,
Speaker 2: so like I don't really know what it's about, and
Speaker 2: they're like you can go now.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, cool.
Speaker 2: So I think we both had that sort of personality
Speaker 2: when we were younger.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember finding it really interesting when I first
Speaker 3: started auditioning. I remember the first audition I ever went on,
Speaker 3: the little girl who again they took both of us
Speaker 3: two two at a time into the room. She knew
Speaker 3: the casting director, she had brought him cookies, and she
Speaker 3: was flirty, like eight years old, and I just remember thinking, wow,
Speaker 3: I've never seen a child act like that, really friendly,
Speaker 3: Like are we allowed to treat to talk to adults
Speaker 3: like that? And my mother later was like, yeah, that
Speaker 3: was weird.
Speaker 4: She was very flirty.
Speaker 3: I don't think you know, obviously she didn't have those intentions,
Speaker 3: but that's sort of like, oh damn, like very and
Speaker 3: I had never seen a kid act like that, so
Speaker 3: that was interesting to me. But yeah, I was always
Speaker 3: showing up to auditions, like I remember I went on
Speaker 3: the callback for pet Cemetery and then my mom went
Speaker 3: to pick me up from school, and I had gotten
Speaker 3: a huge black eye from playing soccer.
Speaker 4: But I still had to go to the audition with
Speaker 4: my giant black eye.
Speaker 1: And how did that go?
Speaker 4: I didn't get it.
Speaker 2: No, Oh that's okay. I think you went on to
Speaker 2: much better things. How did Mermaids come about?
Speaker 3: I just went on on the audition, and I happened
Speaker 3: to be a competitive swimmer actually at the time, and
Speaker 3: the character is a swimmer, and.
Speaker 4: I just I went.
Speaker 3: On to auditions like the original original audition a callback,
Speaker 3: and then they flew me and one other girl to
Speaker 3: Boston where they were shooting, and I auditioned with Share
Speaker 3: and Wanona and like met with them and hung out
Speaker 3: with them for any evening at the production office.
Speaker 1: Was that intimidating to you at all? Or were you
Speaker 1: just too young to really?
Speaker 4: No, my data is great.
Speaker 3: Like anytime I went and auditioned for anything in particular,
Speaker 3: Like you know, once I had to audition for this
Speaker 3: Harrison Ford movies, we watched all Harrison Ford movies, and
Speaker 3: like when I went to auditioned for Mermaids, we did
Speaker 3: a Share movie marathon. You know. I even watched Come
Speaker 3: Back to the Five and Dime Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean,
Speaker 3: which is so obscure, But my mom was always really
Speaker 3: good at stuff like that, like even with photographers. If
Speaker 3: I had to shoot with someone, we'd go to the
Speaker 3: library and we'd look at all their stuff because this
Speaker 3: is before the internet, guys, we would go and look
Speaker 3: at all their stuff so I'd be prepared. So I
Speaker 3: was really excited about going, and I really wanted the part,
Speaker 3: and I remember being nervous, but you know, when you're
Speaker 3: a kid, being nervous and being excited sort of meld together,
Speaker 3: at least at least to my memory. And then everybody
Speaker 3: was really nice, and Winona was lovely and so fun.
Speaker 4: She was only seventeen at the time.
Speaker 3: And Share was great, really fun also, and I don't know,
Speaker 3: it just all was good and it worked out, so
Speaker 3: it was great.
Speaker 2: One of the things I love about your career I
Speaker 2: love a lot of things about your career, is that
Speaker 2: you have just sort of transitioned. It seems seamlessly from
Speaker 2: you know, blockbuster movies like Mermaids, like Sleepy Hollow, like
Speaker 2: Adam's Family Too, you know, really cool independent movies and
Speaker 2: then TV like you know, the New Wednesday.
Speaker 3: I'm glad it appears that way it does.
Speaker 2: It does is that I mean, listen, I know how
Speaker 2: hard it is, and it's like you want the best
Speaker 2: job possible, and sometimes you take a job for money.
Speaker 2: It doesn't buy your resume, it doesn't really look like
Speaker 2: you have ever done that.
Speaker 3: I've taken so many jobs for money, so many jobs
Speaker 3: for money.
Speaker 4: In fact, I was.
Speaker 3: Told, just like I don't know, ten twelve years ago
Speaker 3: that if I didn't need, if I didn't have to
Speaker 3: take so much work for money, I could have a
Speaker 3: much more curated, better career.
Speaker 4: And it really is true. When you don't have to
Speaker 4: work for money, you can wait.
Speaker 3: Or spend all your time developing that perfect project for yourself.
Speaker 3: But when you're somebody who, like I don't come for money,
Speaker 3: we were very poor when I was a kid, I've
Speaker 3: always had to support myself. I've never been good with money,
Speaker 3: so like I blew all my money in my twenties
Speaker 3: and then had to like hustle to try to make
Speaker 3: it back and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: I've definitely taken a lot of jobs for money.
Speaker 3: They're just because, like, if you like, I've done close
Speaker 3: to one hundred movies, but only people only really know
Speaker 3: about twenty maybe of them.
Speaker 2: What's the favorite, Like, what is your absolute favorite movie
Speaker 2: that you've done.
Speaker 4: As an audience, as like a moviegoer a.
Speaker 3: Movie fan, I would say, I really love Ice Storm,
Speaker 3: and I really love I love Buffalo sixty six too.
Speaker 3: I think those are really fun movies. I love this
Speaker 3: movie I did called The Opposite of Sex when I
Speaker 3: was seventeen, that yeah, it's so fun and it was
Speaker 3: such and that also was an incredible experience. So I
Speaker 3: think for me that was that's a movie where I
Speaker 3: love the finished product. But I also had a really
Speaker 3: amazing experience because Don Ruse, who wrote and directed it,
Speaker 3: became I became very close with him and his husband,
Speaker 3: Dan Bucatinski, and I ended.
Speaker 4: Up living with them.
Speaker 3: I was seventeen, and I did want to go home
Speaker 3: back to New York to live with my mom afterwards
Speaker 3: that I had graduated high school, so I was I
Speaker 3: basically told.
Speaker 4: Them I would be moving into their house and they
Speaker 4: let me.
Speaker 3: I lived with them for like six months in LA
Speaker 3: but they got to you know, and it just was
Speaker 3: like a really wonderful experience.
Speaker 4: And it was a part where I didn't have to
Speaker 4: pretend to be.
Speaker 3: I mean, I certainly wasn't extremes that as extreme as
Speaker 3: that character. But I had a bad attitude as a
Speaker 3: seventeen year old, and I got to just I don't know.
Speaker 3: I was always relieved when I was younger to not
Speaker 3: have to to not have to be something that I
Speaker 3: didn't respect.
Speaker 1: I guess you talk.
Speaker 2: I mean, most seventeen year olds, I think have a
Speaker 2: bad attitude. Yeah, you know, I mean I think that
Speaker 2: that's what your teenage and early twenty years are about,
Speaker 2: is finding yourself, discovering who you are, finding your voice,
Speaker 2: what your limitations are.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I obviously didn't learn the art of diplomacy until it
Speaker 2: was well into my thirties. I was apparently a late bloomer.
Speaker 4: I'm still I'm still learning. So I completely get that. Yea,
Speaker 4: how you when you started nine to two and oh.
Speaker 2: I think I just turned eighteen, like I think I
Speaker 2: did the Pilot when I was seventeen and a half.
Speaker 3: That was just such a huge show from the very beginning.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean I definitely wasn't expecting it, and
Speaker 2: to me, I had, you know, I'd been on Little
Speaker 2: House in New Beginning, and I thought that I'm going
Speaker 2: to age myself. That was like the cast me out
Speaker 2: the cat's pajamas, Like that was everything to me. It
Speaker 2: was like Michael Landon and then I did our house
Speaker 2: and then I had done Heather, So I really didn't
Speaker 2: I didn't think it would get bigger than that, And
Speaker 2: I was very unaware of like myself and what I
Speaker 2: was projecting out into the public or to the people
Speaker 2: that I was working with. And nine o two when
Speaker 2: I was like a huge wake up call and one
Speaker 2: that I was definitely not ready for and prepared for,
Speaker 2: and I didn't handle it all that well at times.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It was also, as you know, a very different time
Speaker 2: in the business, particularly for women, and if you were
Speaker 2: young and working and you had a strong mom, like
Speaker 2: my mom always went to set with me. She'll be
Speaker 2: the first person to say that she wasn't always the
Speaker 2: strongest person, but she learned in going to sets with
Speaker 2: me and then taking care of my dad, who was
Speaker 2: sick the majority of my life, that she learned how
Speaker 2: to find her voice and be strong. But moms would
Speaker 2: always get labeled as stage moms if they stuck up
Speaker 2: for their child, and then as we got older into
Speaker 2: that like seventeen eighteen nineteen category. If we stuck up
Speaker 2: for ourselves, we were branded difficult. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you were ever. I know I was one hundred percent
Speaker 2: branded difficult a bunch of times. But you really had
Speaker 2: to fight for yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was this awareness of it not being okay
Speaker 3: to speak up that when you fid when you did
Speaker 3: speak up, there was a lot of kind of resentment
Speaker 3: in it. I would hold my tongue and hold my tongue,
Speaker 3: and by the time I spoke up, I was songat
Speaker 3: because I'd had to muzzle myself for so long.
Speaker 4: And then that's where I would.
Speaker 3: Actually be very unpleasant, because I was mad and I'd
Speaker 3: finally like gotten to a point where I couldn't help
Speaker 3: but say something. Whereas now it's a little bit you're
Speaker 3: allowed to express yourself and there's just so much more empathy,
Speaker 3: I think, and collaboration and understanding.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: I mean, I still think that we've taken huge strides
Speaker 2: for women in the workplace period, whatever job that you're in,
Speaker 2: but there's still, you know, restraints, there's still a ceiling.
Speaker 2: It's still you know, a business, our business run by
Speaker 2: a lot of men, and they still have, I think
Speaker 2: an underneath sort of mentality of especially if you're not
Speaker 2: at like the Julia Roberts, Nicole Kiinman, George Clooney level,
Speaker 2: where you know, you're like, please tell me all of
Speaker 2: your thoughts, But when you're at my level, it's more
Speaker 2: of shouldn't you just be grateful that you have the job?
Speaker 2: And I'm always like, God, Like, what a weird way
Speaker 2: to exist in a business and in the world as
Speaker 2: a woman where I have to just be grateful as
Speaker 2: opposed to also having an opinion and a thought.
Speaker 1: Can I hear you?
Speaker 4: I feel the same.
Speaker 3: And still I feel like I'm expected to feel incredibly lucky,
Speaker 3: you know. And I was told that from the beginning too,
Speaker 3: that I was so lucky and it was all just luck.
Speaker 4: And being in the right place and time.
Speaker 3: And I do think that that is a mechanism to
Speaker 3: keep somebody from really being in their power.
Speaker 2: You have two kids, as we know, your two year
Speaker 2: old is going through a sleep issue, and you still,
Speaker 2: you know, have to work.
Speaker 1: How are you Because I don't have kids. I have
Speaker 1: a dog. She's like my child.
Speaker 2: But it's obviously a lot easier for me to sort
Speaker 2: of pack up and go to a movie set or
Speaker 2: a TV set, be away all day, Like, how do
Speaker 2: you actually manage having a family life, taking care of
Speaker 2: your kids and working all at the same time.
Speaker 4: It is tricky.
Speaker 3: It is tricky, and I also am very I do
Speaker 3: have an awareness of not making it about that.
Speaker 4: It's difficult for me because I.
Speaker 3: Have children, because I don't want anyone to be like, well,
Speaker 3: you just won't use her because it's so difficult for
Speaker 3: her because.
Speaker 4: She's a mom, you know.
Speaker 3: So I'm really aware of that. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: it is really difficult. You know, my kids do not
Speaker 3: like it when I travel. When I'm away. I try
Speaker 3: to take my son with me as much as I can.
Speaker 3: But you know, and even though taking my son with
Speaker 3: me with my two year olds, like I found the
Speaker 3: last year I was commuting back and forth to Vancouver
Speaker 3: for Yellow Jackets, she didn't know.
Speaker 4: Me, you know, we had no bond, so that was
Speaker 4: very upsetting. But I can't.
Speaker 3: But you know, with TV too, if you're a series regular,
Speaker 3: you have to pay for everything, so I can't.
Speaker 4: Every time I go up and down, I can't.
Speaker 3: Pay for four people, four flights, you know, and the
Speaker 3: rooms that you would need and all it like, it's
Speaker 3: just too expensive to travel with everybody all the.
Speaker 4: Time, so it is difficult. I try to manage it.
Speaker 4: I try to just get back as often as I can.
Speaker 4: I think really the thing that I.
Speaker 3: Learned, especially with my son, was just mixing him into
Speaker 3: my work life.
Speaker 4: You know, why can't he.
Speaker 3: Come for the weekend to a convention and see what
Speaker 3: it's like. You know, he came that one, you know
Speaker 3: where I saw you and.
Speaker 4: He wanted a job.
Speaker 3: So we ended up taking all the selfies at the
Speaker 3: table for everybody, and you know.
Speaker 4: It was for me.
Speaker 3: I've been able to sort of mix him into my
Speaker 3: work life in a way that's been good. You know.
Speaker 3: There are certain things like my son was never sleep
Speaker 3: trained because I had to.
Speaker 4: I had to go back.
Speaker 3: To work when he was two months old, and my
Speaker 3: husband at the time wouldn't help me at all with anything,
Speaker 3: and I had to do all the night stuff and
Speaker 3: get up and go to work for fourteen hours and
Speaker 3: be on camera. So the only way I could do
Speaker 3: that was to lie with him, and he would breastfeed
Speaker 3: whatever he wanted and sleep with me. And I had
Speaker 3: to have him in the bed with me just to
Speaker 3: get enough sleep to be able to work the next day.
Speaker 3: So that like again like set me up a little
Speaker 3: bit for him not being sleep trained, which isn't great,
Speaker 3: but I but I was doing it basically on my own,
Speaker 3: So that part is tough. But I think, you know,
Speaker 3: we just get through it, just keep going. It's not
Speaker 3: I just repeat to myself all the time. It's temporary.
Speaker 3: It's temporary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, you have a two year old,
Speaker 1: so it's like.
Speaker 3: Now I have a wonderful husband who does more than
Speaker 3: you know, because again, and I went back to work
Speaker 3: when she was two months old. I went and shot
Speaker 3: Wednesday in Romania when she was two months old, and
Speaker 3: marked it every single night all night long. Like I
Speaker 3: just slept and worked the next day, and it made
Speaker 3: such a huge difference. It was so much easier this
Speaker 3: time around. You know, you have to have a good
Speaker 3: supportive partner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean support systems, supportive partners.
Speaker 3: Like even if you had lived with your like I
Speaker 3: don't know, if my mother had been younger, I would
Speaker 3: have been like, come, you have to move in and
Speaker 3: help me, and you know, all those kinds of things,
Speaker 3: so or you know, living I think that mommy communes
Speaker 3: are a really good idea like a bunch of moms
Speaker 3: living together with children sounds like a really good way
Speaker 3: to go. I was just just telling someone recently that
Speaker 3: I thought that was great. They looked at me a
Speaker 3: little crazy, but whatever. I mean.
Speaker 2: It's an interesting idea because it's literally a community of
Speaker 2: women all sort of in the same position, being able
Speaker 2: to lift each other up for each other, take care
Speaker 2: of each other's kids, and have you know, this sort
Speaker 2: of built in secure support system that so many people
Speaker 2: don't actually have. Yeah, you know, the single moms basically
Speaker 2: like you were in your first marriage, where you were
Speaker 2: doing everything on your own.
Speaker 1: Too.
Speaker 2: You're having to go to work because first off, it's
Speaker 2: what you do, it's your career.
Speaker 1: You love it, it feeds your soul.
Speaker 2: But also what pays the rent or the mortgage, the
Speaker 2: car bill, the gas, the food on the table, and
Speaker 2: you know, not coming from money. Much like myself, I
Speaker 2: didn't come from any money. I had to work for everything,
Speaker 2: just like you.
Speaker 1: You have the added responsibility of two children. It's a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think too, I just I remember how
Speaker 3: bad it felt, and I've gone I've actually gone through
Speaker 3: periods as an adult where we were really, really broke,
Speaker 3: and you just have that thing of like, I don't
Speaker 3: ever want to feel this way again, Like it's a
Speaker 3: visceral feeling.
Speaker 4: I don't ever want.
Speaker 3: To feel this like helpless, because I think that's really
Speaker 3: not what Not having a lot of money makes you
Speaker 3: feel like, it makes you feel very helpless. And so yeah,
Speaker 3: there's a ton of that pressure and it's hard. It
Speaker 3: definitely is because you have to work to support your family.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, you working takes away.
Speaker 4: Time from your family.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's difficult. But I'm in a pretty
Speaker 3: good place now again. I have like a really supportive husband,
Speaker 3: and I've figured out a way of at least bringing
Speaker 3: my son with me places and just have to work
Speaker 3: it out in the future with my daughter.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because talking about like I never want
Speaker 2: to be broke again. I never want to be in
Speaker 2: that position again. There are times where I started getting
Speaker 2: controlled heavily and it was like, do I fight back.
Speaker 2: Do I continue on my path of being truthful and
Speaker 2: honest about like my life, life experience with you know, cancer,
Speaker 2: my childhood, my friends, with my career with different co stars,
Speaker 2: or do I back off and continue to play it safe,
Speaker 2: and a friend of mine sent me like all of
Speaker 2: the profiles of the of the like four or five
Speaker 2: trolls that were, you know, posting, and they were like,
Speaker 2: do you notice that they have zero post, zero followers,
Speaker 2: zero anything.
Speaker 1: It's a bot.
Speaker 2: It's like a make believe account that you know someone's
Speaker 2: created in order to troll you, Like this is what happens.
Speaker 2: It's such a hard place to be in as an
Speaker 2: actor and as a human being because a you know,
Speaker 2: our natural instinct is we want everybody to like us.
Speaker 1: We don't want to be hated. We don't want to
Speaker 1: be trolled.
Speaker 2: We're having to put ourselves out there on social media
Speaker 2: because it's now a part of our job. It didn't
Speaker 2: used to be and nowadays, and there's also a part
Speaker 2: of it that's great because you're getting to connect with
Speaker 2: people that you know are actually really supportive and lovely.
Speaker 1: And there'll be you know, a million ten people commenting.
Speaker 2: A million are great and ten are terrible, and the
Speaker 2: ten are the loudest in your head worse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it is a very I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: social media in general is just so it puts you
Speaker 3: in such a vulnerable position and there can be a
Speaker 3: lot of really crazy people out there, and you do
Speaker 3: hear the negative stuff the loudest, and it's tough. I mean,
Speaker 3: I have experience with a person who just like his
Speaker 3: whole thing is posting horrible, nasty things about me. It's
Speaker 3: just and it's like all stuff that's like made up
Speaker 3: horrible things about my children, my family, like, and so
Speaker 3: I've just really had to I just had really had
Speaker 3: to ignore it. And it's like that school ground mentality
Speaker 3: of like ignoring the bully or the people that are
Speaker 3: nice to you, but on such a huge level and
Speaker 3: such a public platform. But I think it really is
Speaker 3: important that people experience their lives with what's right in
Speaker 3: front of them. You know, you go through your life
Speaker 3: and you should be in your body, living your life
Speaker 3: and dealing with what's tangible and in front of you.
Speaker 3: And a lot of these other concepts like fame or
Speaker 3: what somebody you don't even know thinks about you, or
Speaker 3: all these things that they do exist, but they're not
Speaker 3: real and they're not in front of you, and they're
Speaker 3: not going to directly affect your life. And so I've
Speaker 3: always been very much somebody who's refused to let that
Speaker 3: stuff in because it made me feel really upset, and
Speaker 3: so I've always kind of just dealt with what is
Speaker 3: directly in front of me and what makes me happy.
Speaker 3: Not to say that I have always done what I
Speaker 3: wanted to do without fear of judgment, but just that
Speaker 3: I try not to let those things knock me off
Speaker 3: my path.
Speaker 2: I needed to hear that from you because I'm extremely sensitive.
Speaker 2: I'm actually going to tear up talking about this. I
Speaker 2: think going through cancer has made me even more sensitive.
Speaker 2: It's like all of those walls that I was able
Speaker 2: to build up from you know, being young in the business,
Speaker 2: that protected me from everybody and where I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: they have a bad opinion of me, I don't care.
Speaker 2: All those walls with cancer got taken down. So there's
Speaker 2: no shell. There's nothing to sort of guard and protect me.
Speaker 2: And I take everything to heart and it really really
Speaker 2: really really impacts me, and at the same time it's hurt.
Speaker 2: As I get I find that I still get very
Speaker 2: angry about it because it's a bunch of people telling
Speaker 2: me what happened in my life that they didn't live,
Speaker 2: versus like my actual reality that I lived.
Speaker 1: And you feel like.
Speaker 2: You have to constantly defend yourself and it is a
Speaker 2: huge waste of time and energy for anyone, but particularly
Speaker 2: when you're going through cancer treatment.
Speaker 3: And it's just the lowest of the level. Also for
Speaker 3: somebody to attack you, especially to attack anyone, and that's
Speaker 3: what you you know, that you don't know, like why
Speaker 3: go out of your way to do this stuff? But
Speaker 3: also for them to go after you, to see you
Speaker 3: as a target when you're going through so much and
Speaker 3: you have dealt with so much and you're being so
Speaker 3: honest and open and vulnerable, for someone to then want
Speaker 3: to like stick the knife in is really low and
Speaker 3: reveals so much more about that person's character that anything
Speaker 3: negative they could ever say about you.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like it's like the school It's again like the school bully.
Speaker 4: Like if you're so ugly inside you need to do this,
Speaker 4: then actually all you just did would show us that
Speaker 4: there's something really wrong with you.
Speaker 3: And I know, and that can be really and I
Speaker 3: can't imagine being in that position, you know. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm not going through what you're going through, you know.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't have all of that additional concern and stress
Speaker 3: and pain, and it it's just gross that people go
Speaker 3: after you in that way, and I don't know if
Speaker 3: maybe you can step outside of yourself to judge them
Speaker 3: the way that I would judge them, or somebody outside
Speaker 3: of the situation would look at it, because once you
Speaker 3: do that, you're just like, oh, this person is this
Speaker 3: is this is garbage.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think I said in a couple episodes prior, I
Speaker 2: said that I felt like my podcast was free therapy,
Speaker 2: that it was very cathartic, And I think I now
Speaker 2: owe you like two hundred and fifty dollars for the hour,
Speaker 2: like a therapist.
Speaker 4: I fall that job a therapist.
Speaker 1: You're really good at it. You're very, very very good
Speaker 1: at it.
Speaker 3: Well, no, I mean I have to say though, I
Speaker 3: mean again, not to the same level at all. But
Speaker 3: when I started doing press for Yellow Jackets and having
Speaker 3: to post on social media images myself, just even as
Speaker 3: somebody over forty, I had a really hard time. I
Speaker 3: had a really hard time seeing these images. I had
Speaker 3: a really hard time reposting them. I really couldn't reconcile
Speaker 3: caring about what I looked like so much. The Instagram
Speaker 3: beauty standard that you see where you see like other
Speaker 3: people retouching your photographs and you're like, oh, I didn't
Speaker 3: realize I needed that, But now I feel really weird
Speaker 3: about myself. I had such a huge it was so
Speaker 3: hard for me. But we have to find way is
Speaker 3: to navigate it where it doesn't emotionally drag us down.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know why anyone thinks that they have the
Speaker 2: right to comment on someone's look. I was looking at
Speaker 2: somebody else's Instagram who I think is absolutely wonderful, Paris Jackson,
Speaker 2: and she posted something and I thought she looked gorgeous,
Speaker 2: and people were, you know, trolling her. I imagine that
Speaker 2: she probably gets trolled heavily. And meanwhile, she's this beautiful girl,
Speaker 2: very talented, just seems very sincere. I don't know her personally,
Speaker 2: and it really hit me. Why do people think that
Speaker 2: they have the right to say such nasty, mean things
Speaker 2: about another human being while they're like behind you know,
Speaker 2: their phone, their device, whatever they're using to be on
Speaker 2: social media.
Speaker 1: They get to be anonymous. They're not being.
Speaker 2: Trolled by me, by you, by Paris, by any of
Speaker 2: those people, and yet they feel the need and what
Speaker 2: you've said is right, Like, what is it about them
Speaker 2: that's so ugly inside that they that it does it
Speaker 2: really make them feel better about themselves to tear down
Speaker 2: another human being? Because I don't imagine. To be clear,
Speaker 2: for me, tearing down another person doesn't ever make me
Speaker 2: feel good about myself. Being truthful about the things that
Speaker 2: have transpired in my life is just me being truthful.
Speaker 2: But there's never ill intent. I don't carry any hate
Speaker 2: for anyone in my heart, and I would never purposely
Speaker 2: go on somebody's Instagram and be like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: you know you've aged, You've and I've had that happen
Speaker 2: to me where people are like, dude, like cancer.
Speaker 1: Is wrecking your looks. You look terrible, and I'm like.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, oh I had when I was pregnant.
Speaker 3: I had this a couple of people, I think only two, thankfully,
Speaker 3: who wrote and were like, no more babies, Christina, you're
Speaker 3: ruining You're ruining your looks, And I was just like,
Speaker 3: I am pregnant. But I always immediately delete the comments
Speaker 3: and block the people like ruthlessly.
Speaker 4: I'm just like, nope, we're not doing this. You don't like,
Speaker 4: get off my page.
Speaker 2: So, knowing all of this about social media, is your
Speaker 2: son he's only nine?
Speaker 1: Is he on social media?
Speaker 3: No? But but it is interesting. He's desperate to have Instagram,
Speaker 3: to have a phone. Just recently, I had to make
Speaker 3: sure Safari and all search engines were taken off of
Speaker 3: his iPad because he's become really into anime and unfortunately,
Speaker 3: when you search for anime shorts, you get porn. So yeah,
Speaker 3: and it's really a problem. So we I've had to
Speaker 3: like really take Safari off his iPad. He has no
Speaker 3: more access to adult YouTube. Kids YouTube is just fine
Speaker 3: for nine year olds, but he's obsessed with having a phone,
Speaker 3: and I'm always.
Speaker 4: Like, who are you gonna call?
Speaker 3: You don't need to call anyone, You're fine, And he
Speaker 3: really has. He wanted TikTok for a while and would
Speaker 3: stop badgering me and Instagram.
Speaker 4: But I really believe that it's not that it is uh.
Speaker 3: I really think it's bad for kids and especially teenagers,
Speaker 3: and he's not gonna have it.
Speaker 4: He's just not.
Speaker 3: I'm not. I just think they can have it when
Speaker 3: they're older. And then also, if you're being bombarded with
Speaker 3: what you should look like, what you should dress like,
Speaker 3: what you should be listening to, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 4: Why you're not just like everybody else?
Speaker 3: That it's just I feel like it's just way too
Speaker 3: much social and emotional pressure.
Speaker 2: There's beauty in everyone, and to find your own version
Speaker 2: of beauty is so incredibly important, and I don't think
Speaker 2: that that can happen on social media right now.
Speaker 1: It's too no.
Speaker 3: And I also think it's really not healthy to be
Speaker 3: so self obsessed. I also sometimes think, like, do I
Speaker 3: want to post about this fantastic vacation that I'm on
Speaker 3: that I've been given for free because I'm going to
Speaker 3: post about it when other people are having trouble paying
Speaker 3: the rent.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I just think there's not enough compassion in that direction
Speaker 3: of this sort of like is it helpful for everybody
Speaker 3: else for us to flaunt what we have? And I
Speaker 3: guess it's a really impossible question because that is how
Speaker 3: a lot of people.
Speaker 4: Make their money.
Speaker 3: So again, who am I to criticize? But I personally,
Speaker 3: I'm always very aware of that. And I also got
Speaker 3: to a point too where like I was putting filters
Speaker 3: on my face and trying to make myself look perfect
Speaker 3: all the time.
Speaker 4: And then I was realized.
Speaker 3: I realized, like, this actually isn't really helpful for another
Speaker 3: forty three year old woman who who probably looks the
Speaker 3: way I look without a filter. But because I put
Speaker 3: this filter on, I'm setting I'm sort of creating disappointment
Speaker 3: in somebody else.
Speaker 1: Possibly it's an unrealistic standard.
Speaker 2: You know, it's already been set by you know, let's
Speaker 2: start with like the fashion industry that had fifteen year
Speaker 2: old girls, Like, okay, you get to a certain age,
Speaker 2: nobody's gonna have skin like a fifteen year old or
Speaker 2: like an eighteen year old. You know, trickle down from
Speaker 2: that into people getting a lot of fillers or botox
Speaker 2: or this or that, and then and then using filters,
Speaker 2: and it's setting a very unrealistic standard. And listen, that's
Speaker 2: not to say like, of course I always want to
Speaker 2: look my best in a photo. I definitely, uh you know,
Speaker 2: I will retouch here and there. There are moments when
Speaker 2: I'll just post something that like has me looking terrible
Speaker 2: because I don't care, or I'll like take a photo
Speaker 2: and try to find like the best light. I mean,
Speaker 2: look at me now, like i've you know, my house
Speaker 2: is nothing but like a big you know, open blak. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like it's beautiful, Like if I turn that way,
Speaker 2: it's going to look completely different, right, So obviously I
Speaker 2: found like good lighting, but.
Speaker 4: I think that that's different.
Speaker 3: Good lighting is different than like literally going in with
Speaker 3: the eraser and like or the face tune where you're like,
Speaker 3: let's like my face a little thunner, my checkbones a
Speaker 3: little water and then like, you know, wow, and then
Speaker 3: it's almost embarrassing when you have like the pictures you
Speaker 3: took on your Instagram versus the ones from the red
Speaker 3: carpet where you actually.
Speaker 4: Look the way you look.
Speaker 3: I'm always like, well, this is well, this is really embarrassing.
Speaker 3: I just I don't understand, like it's gotten me too
Speaker 3: obsession with like being perfect, and like if I show
Speaker 3: my age, then I failed, and it's like, well, we
Speaker 3: all get older, it's not a failure.
Speaker 4: I love what Pamela Anderson's doing. I love it.
Speaker 1: I do too. By the way, I also think she
Speaker 1: looks amazing.
Speaker 3: She's got such like an interesting, strong, beautiful face. You
Speaker 3: can see her personality so well, and I just I
Speaker 3: just love her.
Speaker 4: She's great. She's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think she's definitely you know, challenging that idea of
Speaker 2: what beauty is. And to me, she's far more beautiful
Speaker 2: without the makeup than she was with the makeup, and
Speaker 2: I think that there are certain women that have gone
Speaker 2: out there and challenged that idea and just been themselves.
Speaker 2: And I mean this has been good because we've got
Speaker 2: a lot of things. We're not listening to the noise
Speaker 2: of social media, the haters, you know, accepting our looks.
Speaker 2: By the way, like if anybody said anything about the
Speaker 2: way that you look, I would stalk them myself and have.
Speaker 1: A little content.
Speaker 2: You know, you're you're beautiful and you're What I really
Speaker 2: like about you is that I think i'd like your
Speaker 2: brain the most.
Speaker 3: Well. I try to work on my brain the most,
Speaker 3: because you know, I was never really anybody who was
Speaker 3: successful for the way I looked. You know, it was
Speaker 3: never about that for me, which I think has been
Speaker 3: very lucky for me. But then as I got older,
Speaker 3: I got caught up in all this stuff, which is
Speaker 3: interesting because in my twenties I didn't really care. Like
Speaker 3: I was very punk rock and I was you know,
Speaker 3: I was chubby, and everybody talked.
Speaker 4: About how fat I was, so I was like, you
Speaker 4: want to call me fat?
Speaker 3: Watch this? You know, So I it was it's only
Speaker 3: like as I got older and wanted to be this
Speaker 3: like lady that I've actually started caring about my looks
Speaker 3: and I would like to go back to the other
Speaker 3: person because I think she is so much more fun
Speaker 3: and just you know, again, I should listen to my
Speaker 3: own advice. It's really about what's going on in your brain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a healthier place to be where you
Speaker 2: just go, Okay, I'm done, I'm done caring. It's just
Speaker 2: it's it's very hard to get there. But you are
Speaker 2: to me. The most beautiful women to me are the
Speaker 2: women who are intelligent and thoughtful and eloquent and graceful.
Speaker 2: And that has absolutely nothing to do no, but you
Speaker 2: speak with grace, you know.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I appreciate you saying that. I clearly
Speaker 4: can't take a compliment.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I've noticed that, and I'm just going to
Speaker 2: keep showering them on you because I love you that much.
Speaker 2: And you also do work with a foundation. Do you
Speaker 2: want to talk about that at all?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I was Rain's national spokesperson for a
Speaker 3: long time, like I think almost ten years. I used
Speaker 3: to go to DC and talk to the Appropriations Committee
Speaker 3: about fully funding the Violence Skins Women's Act and all
Speaker 3: that stuffs and RAIN is Rape Abuse Incess National Network.
Speaker 3: And basically what they have done is that any time
Speaker 3: you call like a rape crisis hotline, everybody it's all
Speaker 3: connected and everybody's been trained in the same way, and.
Speaker 4: You get a local person.
Speaker 3: So you call the rain hotline and you get a
Speaker 3: local person who then will be an advocate, meet you
Speaker 3: at the hospital, help, be a person in between you
Speaker 3: and the police, make sure everything will be collected properly,
Speaker 3: that you will be treated properly. So it's really an
Speaker 3: incredible organization. I went through the training, the sort of
Speaker 3: hotline phone training as well, just so I could understand
Speaker 3: a little bit more about it, and so I worked
Speaker 3: with them for.
Speaker 4: A very very long time.
Speaker 3: I have done a little bit less with them recently,
Speaker 3: and especially since I became a mom, to be honest,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I'm you know, I've been very involved in
Speaker 3: that kind of field for a while and other women's
Speaker 3: issues for sure.
Speaker 2: And again going back to your career and like how
Speaker 2: you know, incredibly diverse. I mean, I have your resume
Speaker 2: in front of me, and I'm always like like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, that's right. She was a nut and she
Speaker 2: was a nut and she was in that like you
Speaker 2: have worked consistently. But and I already said this to you,
Speaker 2: what really really always stands out to me is how
Speaker 2: diverse your career has been. But I always felt like
Speaker 2: your talent always shines through and every single thing that
Speaker 2: you do, And to me, you just have an amazing
Speaker 2: career in one that I know that a lot of actors,
Speaker 2: including myself, are very envious of, because it's the people
Speaker 2: that you've worked with, and it feels like you've stayed
Speaker 2: very true to who you are and to yourself. But
Speaker 2: as an actor you've been able to like spread your
Speaker 2: wings and show your depth. So two parts here to
Speaker 2: this question is one, is there any process that you
Speaker 2: go through as an actor when you take on certain roles?
Speaker 2: And two is there a part that you haven't played
Speaker 2: yet that you really want to?
Speaker 3: I would say my process is very, I guess, very cerebral,
Speaker 3: you know, I like to you know, I'll read a script,
Speaker 3: take in the character, and then I find myself just
Speaker 3: like that character lives in my head. So as I'm
Speaker 3: going through the day, I'm in the back of my
Speaker 3: mind thinking about that person. And just as an actor,
Speaker 3: I think that triggers you trying on feelings in a
Speaker 3: weird way. You know, I guess this person would feel
Speaker 3: this way about that, and then you start feeling that way,
Speaker 3: and it's sort of like a slow process of just
Speaker 3: really becoming that person in your brain. For me, in
Speaker 3: my brain without really trying to that happens to me
Speaker 3: all the time where I realize halfway through doing something
Speaker 3: that I am not behaving like that choice. I didn't
Speaker 3: make that choice. The character I'm playing made that choice,
Speaker 3: and I didn't necessarily mean to do it, and I
Speaker 3: definitely so for me, it's just like it's completely internal
Speaker 3: and it's completely slow and almost subconscious.
Speaker 4: In a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: But I also but that also means that because I
Speaker 3: don't do actual, like conscious work, I can't play a
Speaker 3: character that the second.
Speaker 4: I read it, I don't understand the character. I don't
Speaker 4: get it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, if I read something and I don't understand who
Speaker 3: the person is, I can't play that character.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: There's amount of work that will ever get me there
Speaker 3: because of the way my process is. It has to
Speaker 3: be something I immediately sort of understand to connect to
Speaker 3: and then can sort of live with in my head.
Speaker 3: And in terms of what would I like to play
Speaker 3: that I haven't gotten to play yet.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a hard one.
Speaker 2: Listen, people ask me all the time, and I'm always
Speaker 2: like kind of only recently was have I been able
Speaker 2: to actually answer that where I was like, I want
Speaker 2: to play you know, an old lady version of John Wick,
Speaker 2: Like I want to do something like that, right, like
Speaker 2: fun and you know there's still some you know, drama
Speaker 2: and emotion and in there, but there's tons of action
Speaker 2: and you know, your kick ass like of course, I
Speaker 2: would love to do that, but I've only recently been
Speaker 2: able to answer it. And before when everybody, when people
Speaker 2: would ask me that question, I would be so annoyed
Speaker 2: because I'd be like, how do I answer this?
Speaker 1: And then I just put that off on you.
Speaker 3: Sorry, No, it is difficult, and I should have an
Speaker 3: answer because people do ask me that and I just
Speaker 3: can't come up with anything.
Speaker 4: And it's interesting because even as an actor like.
Speaker 3: I really am very guarded emotionally, I don't like to
Speaker 3: I hate feeling pain, like I just don't ever want
Speaker 3: to feel it, and even through a character like so,
Speaker 3: even the idea of playing things that I think would
Speaker 3: be incredibly cathartic, My my My reaction is like.
Speaker 4: Oh, I don't want to feel I don't want to
Speaker 4: feel that, So I don't know. It's a bit childish.
Speaker 2: If you didn't become an actor, what career do you
Speaker 2: think you would have chosen for yourself?
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I always kind of feel nervous when I think about
Speaker 3: about that, because I had a really, really not so
Speaker 3: great childhood, and I've always kind of felt that if
Speaker 3: I didn't become an actress, I probably would have had
Speaker 3: a very hard teenage and life and twenties and you know,
Speaker 3: and I'm not so sure how things would have gone.
Speaker 3: Had I been able to pull it together and actually
Speaker 3: just focus and done well in school, I think I
Speaker 3: would have wanted to I would have wanted to be
Speaker 3: a therapist or a psychiatrist, although god knows I couldn't
Speaker 3: have gotten through med school.
Speaker 4: So let's go with therapist.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, feel free to be my therapist.
Speaker 4: I'm absolutely willing and able. I love telling me you'll
Speaker 4: have to live their lives.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being Thank you, adore you,
Speaker 2: love you. I cannot wait to see you next time.
Speaker 2: You guys, thank you so much for listening to uh
Speaker 2: let's be clear. With Shanna Doherty and my special guest,
Speaker 2: Christina Ricci, we love you, thank you.
Speaker 4: I love you too, thank you so much. I can't
Speaker 4: wait to see you all right.
Speaker 3: Bye bye
Speaker 2: Mm hm