Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Fantasy Pros NFL Draft Show. My
Speaker 1: name is Derek Brown. I'm your host. But look, we
Speaker 1: got to get into this episode. This week's episode, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a blast. Man. We're gonna run through our
Speaker 1: guys of this NFL Draft class and I'm gonna start
Speaker 1: this off real fast. Yes, Thori is here, he's in
Speaker 1: the building. Yeah, that's great, that's grand and usual. But
Speaker 1: I gotta lead this off. We have got a massive guest,
Speaker 1: the first guest of the Fantasy Pro's NFL Draft Show.
Speaker 1: We have John middlecoll from the Volume Network. John, what's
Speaker 1: going on man? And I'm gonna throw this at you
Speaker 1: real fast because look, the people we talked about you
Speaker 1: and tease this entire episode last week on the show,
Speaker 1: and so people look go back to that episode. You
Speaker 1: could hear some of the Middleclaugh's background and stuff. But John,
Speaker 1: we told people about where you come from, where you've
Speaker 1: been and stuff. But I want you to lay this
Speaker 1: out for the people. Man, how did you get into
Speaker 1: talking about sports and how did that all lay out?
Speaker 2: It's funny when you introduce yourself and someone asks you
Speaker 2: what do you do? You know it's easy when you
Speaker 2: like I assurance or I sell cars, or you know,
Speaker 2: I own a hospital.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: When you're like I'm a podcaster, they look at you weird.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Forever I was like, you know, I kind of radio.
Speaker 2: Now I just say, hey, I'm a podcaster. I you know.
Speaker 2: I it goes back to college. I started working in football,
Speaker 2: and but before when I first got to I went
Speaker 2: to cal Pauly. I don't know if you know Ramsey's Barden,
Speaker 2: remember the big wide receiver I played for the Giants
Speaker 2: and Chris Gokong who got drafted in the third round
Speaker 2: by the Eagles. You know, D one double A program,
Speaker 2: not great, but it had some NFL guys over Ausa Jackson,
Speaker 2: who I think played for the Ravens. So I've had
Speaker 2: a few guys over the years. And you know, my
Speaker 2: first couple of years, I thought I was gonna work
Speaker 2: in finance. I was just there as a student, and
Speaker 2: I slowly got involved with the athletic program, which led
Speaker 2: to the football program. And it wasn't like going to
Speaker 2: Alabama or USC where you got to be in a
Speaker 2: line with like eight hundred kids just to get your
Speaker 2: foot in the door. They like handed me a whistle
Speaker 2: on the first day of like spring practice, and I
Speaker 2: was helping them do drills and I really helped with recruiting,
Speaker 2: and then from that I went to Fresno State. It
Speaker 2: wasn't like when I was with the Eagles and I
Speaker 2: worked with Howie Roseman and some other guys. It was
Speaker 2: like they knew they wanted to be a GM, either
Speaker 2: when they were done playing or like when they were young.
Speaker 2: You know, that wasn't necessarily for me, like most people,
Speaker 2: I love football, but it kind of organically happened. And
Speaker 2: then I got a recruiting GA at Fresno State. You know, now,
Speaker 2: you guys fall college football so closely. All these programs
Speaker 2: have like gms and personnel departments that did not really
Speaker 2: exist in like eight nine. Obviously at Fresno State, but
Speaker 2: even at the USCS with Pete Carroll, they had like
Speaker 2: a director of football. Now these programs. One of my buddies,
Speaker 2: Derek Ray, who was with me at Fresno State, is
Speaker 2: the GM of Florida State, you know, with a crew
Speaker 2: of people working for him. And when I was with
Speaker 2: the Eagles, ed Manowitz, who was the GM of Alabama,
Speaker 2: and these guys are all over the place, which is cool.
Speaker 2: But when I was at Fresno State, it was like
Speaker 2: we were getting the buses, the food, it was the
Speaker 2: recruiting board, anything with the players, the assistant coaches, it
Speaker 2: was God had your hands. It was probably a little
Speaker 2: throwback old school, which was awesome. And I got to
Speaker 2: meet all the scouts in the NFL. And we obviously
Speaker 2: had guys getting drafted over the years at President State,
Speaker 2: but Ryan Matthews right when I got there, was a
Speaker 2: sophomore and then his junior year, and he clearly was
Speaker 2: a pretty special talent, and you know, by midway through
Speaker 2: his junior year it was clear he was going to
Speaker 2: go really high in the draft. So the amount of
Speaker 2: GMS and scouts and you just got to meet them all,
Speaker 2: it was like, I want to work in the NFL.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I grew up a big forty nine er fan, and
Speaker 2: Buddy on the Eagles had told me they had an opening.
Speaker 2: It was one of those things Pat Hill called Andy Reid,
Speaker 2: interviewed and then just worked for the Eagles for a
Speaker 2: couple of years. And then my third year, Daniel Jeremiah,
Speaker 2: who was on our staff when I got there, had
Speaker 2: left right he was kind of tired I think of
Speaker 2: the of the lifestyle, and he went to NFL Network
Speaker 2: and most people in the building I worked in the office,
Speaker 2: you know, they're East Coast people. I was like, I
Speaker 2: want to go back west. I'm a West Coast guy.
Speaker 2: And I got the job. And then Andy was fired
Speaker 2: and I got out of it, and that I took
Speaker 2: on this career. But it was I was pretty lucky.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't get to I would have worked
Speaker 2: for any team, and I got a chance to, you know,
Speaker 2: be around Andy and Howie and Veach and a lot
Speaker 2: of guys. And obviously that coaching staff had, you know,
Speaker 2: from Matt Naggie who was a head coach, Sean McDermott
Speaker 2: head coach, Todd Bowles head coach, a lot of hell
Speaker 2: David Kelly was a head coach for a year, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: and a lot.
Speaker 1: Of should have been longer than a year. Just thrown
Speaker 1: it out there, but should have been longer.
Speaker 2: So you know, it was Dom Desandro, who's now a legend.
Speaker 2: So we had a lot of legends around that building.
Speaker 4: John, those those three years, with the egos that you
Speaker 4: spent scouting and evaluating and different stuff like that, give
Speaker 4: the audience an idea of what it is like to
Speaker 4: be inside of an NFL building every day, what it's
Speaker 4: like to be in topically, did this conversation that we're
Speaker 4: having what it's like to be inside of an NFL
Speaker 4: draft process, and then also talk about what your role
Speaker 4: was specifically with the Eagles those couple of years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when you first get there, whether it's
Speaker 2: a coach, when I got there, Matt Naggi was like
Speaker 2: the lowest guy on the totem pole, and so was
Speaker 2: Duce Daley on the coaching staff, and I was that
Speaker 2: in the personnel department, you kind of just do whatever
Speaker 2: needs to get done. Obviously, you know, if you're a coach,
Speaker 2: you'd love to call plays. If you were me, you'd
Speaker 2: love to set the draft board. But it's a lot
Speaker 2: of you know, taking players to physicals, just doing anything.
Speaker 2: I did anything basically Howie Roseman needed, whether it was boards, printouts, anything.
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't even get hell to go, like,
Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't have time to go get his
Speaker 2: laundry right. So and then from there you kind of
Speaker 2: graduate into being a scout. I mean you technically are then,
Speaker 2: but you're not. It's not like you get watching tape
Speaker 2: and no one cares what you're saying about players. But
Speaker 2: then from there, as you earn your stripes, you kind
Speaker 2: of gradually and you're doing a lot of helping out
Speaker 2: the assistant coaches, which is cool. During the season you're
Speaker 2: like really inundated with the grind of you know, I
Speaker 2: helped out the special teams coach doing things like, you know,
Speaker 2: the weather on a weekly basis, keeping them updated, injuries,
Speaker 2: keeping them updated, working with both coordinators, so you feel
Speaker 2: like you're just kind of part of the operation. And
Speaker 2: then as you graduate to kind of like the next level,
Speaker 2: you know, you start advancing opponents you know of just
Speaker 2: again you're not telling the coaching staff exactly what plays
Speaker 2: to run, but just giving them a beat on how
Speaker 2: guys are playing, tendencies for a team, write ups, you know,
Speaker 2: strengths and weaknesses of players, especially with non common opponents.
Speaker 2: It's easier with you know your divisional opponents, you know
Speaker 2: them so well. But when you're playing like if you're
Speaker 2: the Eagles and you're playing like the Cincinnati Bengals who
Speaker 2: you play once every four years and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: so kind of traveling on the road. And then my
Speaker 2: third year I did college, so I was really probably
Speaker 2: more involved in free agency the first couple of years
Speaker 2: in terms of the board and keeping track of everything
Speaker 2: for Howie, and then by my third year, I was
Speaker 2: out on the road basically doing from Washington down to
Speaker 2: Arizona far as El Paso. You know, the West coast
Speaker 2: has less schools than the South or even probably the North,
Speaker 2: but it's spread out, you know, so you just a
Speaker 2: lot of long hours in the car from Arizona State
Speaker 2: to Utah to USC But it was awesome. And then
Speaker 2: Andy got fired that year, Chip came in and my
Speaker 2: NFL run came to an end. But I got to do,
Speaker 2: you know, be in the office, I got to be
Speaker 2: on the road. I got to be around all these guys,
Speaker 2: the Super Bowl champions and head coaches. So it was
Speaker 2: pretty incredible just the way life worked out.
Speaker 4: You have a very unique perspective of someone who was
Speaker 4: spending years behind the Wizard of Oz curtain inside of
Speaker 4: an NFL building and being a part of all these
Speaker 4: different processes, and now you're a part of the media
Speaker 4: on the other side of it. So I'm curious with
Speaker 4: both of those perspectives what you see now as the
Speaker 4: biggest misnomer that the public has about the NFL draft
Speaker 4: process as it actually happens within NFL buildings. Well, what's
Speaker 4: the one thing that the public's just wrong about?
Speaker 2: I would say that the public even slashed the media,
Speaker 2: you know, like hot takes and conversations about players, the
Speaker 2: conversations that you and I would have over JJ McCarthy
Speaker 2: or Blake Korm or any you name any good prospect
Speaker 2: or hell. I mean, you guys are really into the
Speaker 2: weeds talking about like six round er. So I'm probably
Speaker 2: not as in depth on that nowadays, But those conversations
Speaker 2: are happening in the building twenty four to seven three season,
Speaker 2: but you're just constantly talking about players and coaches. I
Speaker 2: mean that they're having the same conversations. Now. The opinions
Speaker 2: differ from person to person, just like they do for us, right,
Speaker 2: but the conversations now that the one thing that's a
Speaker 2: lot different inside than it is outside. And I've always
Speaker 2: thought the media can be very disingenuous about the character stuff.
Speaker 2: You know, we're talking about thirty forty million dollar investments.
Speaker 2: It's you know, if you were buying a forty million
Speaker 2: dollar business, you know there was just you know that
Speaker 2: sold processors. You would do an in depth study of
Speaker 2: everything about that business. So different with a player, they
Speaker 2: just happen to be a person and the character. It's
Speaker 2: easy when the guy is a high character guy. You
Speaker 2: don't even need like whatever like Drake may or you know,
Speaker 2: you name the player, but a lot of players and
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily like he's been arrested three times, right,
Speaker 2: it's just yeah, he's got some issues, you know, and
Speaker 2: you just have to figure out is this a serious thing?
Speaker 2: Is this something that can improve? You know, he doesn't
Speaker 2: get along with a coach. Let's say, well, is that
Speaker 2: is it? The coach's fault? Is his fault? He's not
Speaker 2: a great team. You just got to do a lot
Speaker 2: of research. And it's impossible to quantify it really is,
Speaker 2: because I say it like Tyron Matthew, guy was kicked
Speaker 2: out of school. He's been a team captain of four teams.
Speaker 2: Larry Fitzgerald's like, yeah, he's the leader. You never know,
Speaker 2: And we've seen a lot of examples, and I just
Speaker 2: think this time of year, it actually doesn't feel like
Speaker 2: this draft has a lot of like kind of wild
Speaker 2: card people. I mean, it happens. It feels like most years,
Speaker 2: but it feels like a little tamer of this year.
Speaker 2: Just at least we still got a month ago, so
Speaker 2: you never know. Some stories could come flying, but that's
Speaker 2: always an I mean, Jalen Carter is a great example,
Speaker 2: Like it's now his thing was public, so it was
Speaker 2: hard for anyone to kind of push back. But some
Speaker 2: of this stuff in these programs just aren't public. I
Speaker 2: mean they're able to cover it up. They're able to
Speaker 2: it just doesn't come out, but it doesn't mean it
Speaker 2: didn't happen, right, And that's where the other curveball. Now
Speaker 2: that's way different than when I was there, Like, some
Speaker 2: of these guys are used to making a lot of
Speaker 2: money now, because one question we'd often ask and you
Speaker 2: had to dive into with any good prospect, was like
Speaker 2: how are they going to handle money and fame. It's
Speaker 2: like Caleb's like, yeah, I've been making like nine million
Speaker 2: dollars the last two years. I'm a millionaire. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: make more now, but I'm I'm already rich. So I
Speaker 2: think a lot of the top guys, especially the quarterbacks,
Speaker 2: right like you know, Bo Nicks, Michael Pennix, I mean,
Speaker 2: all these guys at least reported. It's hard, you know,
Speaker 2: some of the numbers that get reported. You talk to
Speaker 2: people in the NFL, They're like, yeah, I'm not sure
Speaker 2: those numbers, right. I think it's pretty true. With the quarterbacks,
Speaker 2: they were making a lot. So you don't have to wonder,
Speaker 2: like I wonder how Bo Nicks or Michael Pennix will
Speaker 2: handle their first check. It's like, well, yeah, both made
Speaker 2: a combined three and a half million dollars last year
Speaker 2: on a college campus. We're relative to their new teammates, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, they were way richer than everybody walking on
Speaker 2: the University of Washington or the University of Oregon.
Speaker 4: Last question for me about your background with the Egos
Speaker 4: before we, you know, get into the talking about specifically
Speaker 4: about the prospects, and I hope you're able to answer this,
Speaker 4: but if you're not, you know, however, I'm curious, you know,
Speaker 4: like stacking these boards over the years, I can distinctly remember,
Speaker 4: you know, my hits and then also of my missus.
Speaker 4: I'm curious when with your time with Eagles, especially in
Speaker 4: that latter part where you're going onto the campuses, you're
Speaker 4: watching the kids up close, and then you're doing the
Speaker 4: video cross checks, and then, like you mentioned, the process
Speaker 4: of we're all in the building, we all have different
Speaker 4: opinions on guys, we're gonna give it, and then that
Speaker 4: how we In that case, he has to sort of
Speaker 4: mediate these conversations and then parce out, you know what,
Speaker 4: what he finds to be reality at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, and then you see the draft board. I'm
Speaker 4: curious if there's any one one prospect that you would
Speaker 4: point back to where you put, you know, stump for him,
Speaker 4: or you pounded the table. You had a conviction and
Speaker 4: you turned out to be right on the other side
Speaker 4: of Is there any one example from you?
Speaker 2: I actually remember when I was a pro scout, and
Speaker 2: it's hard when you're young. You know, it's easier the
Speaker 2: longer you're in a building, and the better your relationship
Speaker 2: is if you've been there to really do the pound
Speaker 2: the table. I mean, you know, most of the guys
Speaker 2: in their twenties aren't telling Andy Reid or Howie, But
Speaker 2: I there was I forget the league, it was the
Speaker 2: U or the XFL. But Andrew sin Diejo who played
Speaker 2: for the Vikings for a long yes, and I remember
Speaker 2: watching him and I was like, God, this guy's He
Speaker 2: was making a ton of plays in this The league
Speaker 2: lasted a year. I forget the exact name of the league,
Speaker 2: but he was on like the Sacramento Mountain Lions or something,
Speaker 2: and I remember telling Luce Ridck, I'm like, this guy
Speaker 2: can play. Now he was I think he was from Rice.
Speaker 2: You know, I was at the combine talking to some
Speaker 2: buddies on the staff, like this guy didn't even have
Speaker 2: a write up in the system, and he probably wasn't
Speaker 2: written up in a lot of systems. In twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: most players are probably written up even if they stink
Speaker 2: that they're just in the system. So it's been a
Speaker 2: lot more automated with technology. But he didn't even exist
Speaker 2: in the system. And you know, I didn't have that
Speaker 2: much pull. It's not like my words went long, but whatever,
Speaker 2: eight nine, ten year career later, and it was a
Speaker 2: starter on some of those really good Vikings defense. I mean,
Speaker 2: he was just a solid player. But relative to where
Speaker 2: you could find him, you know, I think in the draft, right,
Speaker 2: it's really for a scout. It's not gonna be the
Speaker 2: Nick Bosas or the you know, the league neighbors or whoever,
Speaker 2: like the top guy everyone's talking about those guys. You
Speaker 2: do kind of make your money on pounding the table
Speaker 2: when you go through a school, for like George Kittle
Speaker 2: in the fifth or Brock Purty in the seventh. Like hey,
Speaker 2: cause you're saying, like, listen, we all understand this guy's
Speaker 2: not going to go in the first two days of
Speaker 2: the draft, but we should take this guy, right And
Speaker 2: that's where I think because your intimate relationship of going
Speaker 2: it's not even just I went through Iowa this year.
Speaker 2: I've been going through Iowa his entire career. Like I
Speaker 2: know everything. I know the coaching staff really well. I
Speaker 2: know all these people in the or you can pick
Speaker 2: any player you know that fits that, Max Crosby, whoever.
Speaker 2: You know, guy's third day, which, let's face it is
Speaker 2: littered the league of starting players. You know, guys in
Speaker 2: the fifth, sixth, seventh round, which is the most boring
Speaker 2: time for the average fan when they're turning on the
Speaker 2: TV on Saturday. But like we look back in three
Speaker 2: years and you get a ton of credit for that,
Speaker 2: you know, because because ultimately, let's just pick a team.
Speaker 2: Let's say the Arizona Cardinals stay at four and they
Speaker 2: take Molik Neighbors or Marvin Harrison and he becomes awesome.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, it's a really good pick. But it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not that complicated. But if you get
Speaker 2: the equivalent of think about like the debo AJ Brown
Speaker 2: DK Metcalf in the second round, you just do get
Speaker 2: more credit as a GM Like Nick Bose is one
Speaker 2: of the forty nine ers best players. He's a number
Speaker 2: two pick on the draft, right, So I there's you
Speaker 2: do have to figure that out though, because you're allocating
Speaker 2: so much money and the power of that pick if
Speaker 2: you can trade back. So I'm not trying to diminish
Speaker 2: like it's it's it's necessarily easier because it's it's easier
Speaker 2: in the sense you get to see, like you're dealing
Speaker 2: with the best players. But there is more pressure because
Speaker 2: of the money and because of the opportunity cost of
Speaker 2: moving picks. But like you really make your hay and
Speaker 2: after pick like one hundred if because if you can
Speaker 2: hit on a couple of those guys, you get like
Speaker 2: two guys that start on your team. What if one
Speaker 2: makes a Pro Bowl and they're making like eight hundred
Speaker 2: thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's really where it reels it out.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: I love that you brought that up, John, because especially
Speaker 1: the last few draft classes, the ones off the top
Speaker 1: of my head that I could think of where teams
Speaker 1: have really separated themselves. Like we could talk about the
Speaker 1: Rams class from last so we could talk about Poko,
Speaker 1: we could talk about all the defensive guys they hit
Speaker 1: on where they're walking out of last class, and everybody
Speaker 1: used to make the jokes about, oh, well the Rams
Speaker 1: just give all their picks away. Well, they smashed last class,
Speaker 1: so when they keep their picks, they're doing real, pretty
Speaker 1: freaking good with their selections as well as I think
Speaker 1: it was what two two or three years that, No,
Speaker 1: it's longer than that. The Saints class where they got Kamara,
Speaker 1: they got like half their starts seventeen I think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like every single pick was a home run. They were
Speaker 1: just hitting dingers left and right.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: It's like that's where NFL franchises, and we talk about
Speaker 1: the Eagles, you know, where they pick up these middle
Speaker 1: round guys and they end up being full time starters,
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl guys. Guys were that vastly out play the
Speaker 1: rookie contracts. And that's really why we wanted to bring
Speaker 1: you on and talk about our guys of this GENEFL
Speaker 1: draft class man, because there's a laundry list of guys
Speaker 1: and we're gonna run through our top guys. So we're
Speaker 1: picking one guy from quarterback, running back, wide receiver, and
Speaker 1: tight end. And I think we have a really good
Speaker 1: mix of names here. Guys that are gonna go at
Speaker 1: the top of the board, some guys that are gonna
Speaker 1: go middle and late, especially considering the outward thoughts on
Speaker 1: the tight end class after Brock Powers and the running
Speaker 1: back class man. But I won't pander too much longer here,
Speaker 1: John lead us off here, man, let's get into quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Who is your guy? If you're gonna stick your neck
Speaker 1: out this year and say this is the quarterback I
Speaker 1: really want a team to draft and I believe in.
Speaker 2: Well, let me preface it by this is pretty clear
Speaker 2: this guy is not considered to be in the top group.
Speaker 2: And you know it's hard with quarterback inflation. Does the
Speaker 2: guy fall to the second round? But I watched Michael
Speaker 2: Pennix for two years and if you're telling me I
Speaker 2: get that guy in the second round, and I thought, like,
Speaker 2: he's clearly a pocket quarterback, which he the red flags
Speaker 2: are fair, the injuries. When he first got to Indiana,
Speaker 2: he was a dual threat guy. And then you get injured.
Speaker 2: You get injured, and obviously you come to Washington and
Speaker 2: you know they were kind of pumping their chest. They
Speaker 2: had the best offensive line. It was clear Michigan was
Speaker 2: but their offensive line relative to the Pac twelve was awesome.
Speaker 2: And he didn't get touched when you have like got
Speaker 2: sacked eleven times, but he didn't move that much because
Speaker 2: he didn't have to. So when I comped, and again
Speaker 2: it's an easy one because they're both left handed. But
Speaker 2: the thing with Tua is sometimes you see these little guys,
Speaker 2: and most little guys you know, have been like Kyler
Speaker 2: Murray or Russell Wilson, like they're athletes, and then you're like, well,
Speaker 2: some other little guys or smaller guy like Baker Mayfield
Speaker 2: is a pocket quarterbacks. He's not a scrambler though sometimes
Speaker 2: out of like polsplays out of his ass and scrambles around,
Speaker 2: but that's not his style. Bryce Young definitely not a
Speaker 2: scramble like. He's a pocket player. He's a core and
Speaker 2: Tua definitely is too. Now, Tua never ran right, because
Speaker 2: he hurt his hip at Alabama so in the in
Speaker 2: the process. But I'll promise you this, even pre the
Speaker 2: hip injury, tool was not running a four or five
Speaker 2: five and definitely not jumping thirty six and a half inches.
Speaker 2: So Michael Penix is a really good athlete. So if
Speaker 2: you're telling me, I can get this guy who's had
Speaker 2: this level of cess for two years, again, this is
Speaker 2: pretty icatd Like I understand, like I couldn't take him
Speaker 2: super high. But if we're talking about a guy who's
Speaker 2: there at like thirty three or even maybe late in
Speaker 2: the first round, you're a team that trades up and
Speaker 2: I get this guy on that you know, that five
Speaker 2: year contract that I don't know, man, I it speaks
Speaker 2: for itself. The deep ball accuracy. It did concern me
Speaker 2: when he got injured, not injured, but like hit against
Speaker 2: Michigan and Oregon, who I would say there are two
Speaker 2: more physical teams he played. He looked like he was
Speaker 2: struggling by the end of the game to like get
Speaker 2: up off the field. So obviously the NFL is really physical,
Speaker 2: but that could Jane Daniels two hundred and ten pounds
Speaker 2: give me a break. He weighs one hundred and finety
Speaker 2: five pounds. I mean, I just look at the guy,
Speaker 2: and again, he's obviously a much more athletic guy in
Speaker 2: terms of explosive can run away. But it's sometimes the
Speaker 2: wait's fake. I'll never forget a scout telling me when
Speaker 2: he went to the way in for Bryce Young. He's like,
Speaker 2: that dude waddled up there. I don't know what was
Speaker 2: in his body creating the pasta. And then he said,
Speaker 2: I think he waddled right to the bathroom. After which
Speaker 2: is wait and wait at some positions, like I remember
Speaker 2: DeVante Smith when the Eagles drafted him.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: I talked to a buddy that does the SEC. I'm like, god,
Speaker 2: this guy's like one hundred and fifty five pounds. I mean,
Speaker 2: what was he like one sixty eight or whatever he was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like, I'm not touching the scale, baby.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this guy's gonna play in the NFL, and
Speaker 2: he's like John, this has always been a size and
Speaker 2: he's played against the best players in the country, not
Speaker 2: just in the conference, but in practice every day. He
Speaker 2: knows how to use it and he's not this isn't
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven where John Lynch is waiting for you
Speaker 2: across the middle, but at quarterback, I think it was
Speaker 2: pretty clear and I'm not trying to play revisionist history here,
Speaker 2: Like I was anti this guy. I thought Bryce Young
Speaker 2: was really good. But it didn't take long. A couple
Speaker 2: of weeks in You're like this, this guy looks tiny.
Speaker 2: How is this gonna work? And it's like, Kyler is small,
Speaker 2: but he's built and he can fly. He's got a
Speaker 2: huge arm, Like you watch him Bryce, Like where are
Speaker 2: the traits?
Speaker 1: So yeah, you gotta have the superpowers. Man. If you're
Speaker 1: gonna be a little bit shorter and then you're gonna
Speaker 1: play from the pocket, you have to have some of
Speaker 1: those superpowers. It's like, how are you gonna cape up?
Speaker 1: How are you going to win from the pocket and
Speaker 1: win on certain plays?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that's where I think the Penix Pro Day
Speaker 2: was eye opening, just in like this guy's a big
Speaker 2: time athlete because we've just been talking about him like
Speaker 2: a pocket quarterback, like he's Jared Goff for TUA or something.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, this guy can really run. And I'm
Speaker 2: not saying they're gonna ask him to do that consistently,
Speaker 2: but he has it in the bag. So if you're
Speaker 2: talking about a guy that you can get and who know,
Speaker 2: I don't know where you guys think he ends up going,
Speaker 2: but between like thirty and forty five, Like, that's pretty
Speaker 2: good value for a guy that's done with Yeah, I
Speaker 2: was gonna ask you.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you, do you think he makes
Speaker 1: it into the first round because I've seen him mocked
Speaker 1: anywhere depending on what you're looking at around the industry,
Speaker 1: him going top fIF team, Like I'm seeing him him
Speaker 1: going in the middle of the first round of the Raiders.
Speaker 1: I've seen him fall to the second round?
Speaker 2: Where do you think he gets into the the four
Speaker 2: guys go in some order one through four. That's four
Speaker 2: quarterbacks off the board. So who else these other teams
Speaker 2: that need a quarterback? If the Raiders, what's Sean Payton
Speaker 2: gonna do? Just play with Jered Sidham and.
Speaker 1: Some other random Like we have an anxiety attack for
Speaker 1: most of the first round. Is that what I'm guessing.
Speaker 2: I think it's definitely in play now because of some
Speaker 2: of the variables of his injury history. He I guess
Speaker 2: he could fall, but we have seen I listen, I
Speaker 2: don't know where you guys stood on these two guys,
Speaker 2: but Kenny Pickett mac Jones I thought, historically are like
Speaker 2: third fourth round picks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were not big on Kenny Pickett. I can
Speaker 1: definitely say I know Thor wasn't either. I don't know
Speaker 1: where he sat on mac Jones, but I was not
Speaker 1: a picket guy. I was like, look, this is a
Speaker 1: team burning a first round pick. You're putting yourself in
Speaker 1: a quarterback purgatory. Crazy, And that's the worry. Like when
Speaker 1: you get into these positional talks and it's like the
Speaker 1: quarterbacks are going to go higher, then some of them
Speaker 1: are justified or should you know, Like we could talk
Speaker 1: about where Penix goes, where bo Nicks goes in the draft,
Speaker 1: and and should Nis be a first round second round guy,
Speaker 1: like I've got a third round grade on him, you know,
Speaker 1: but where these guys go in the draft is definitely
Speaker 1: up for debate.
Speaker 2: So we all agree, like Penix's skill set relative to
Speaker 2: those two guys who went twenty and fifteen is far superior.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, Penis can run circles, literally run circles
Speaker 1: and throw the ball like.
Speaker 2: You could also come back as like, well, I hope.
Speaker 2: So it's like Mac Jones and Kenny Pickett, which is true,
Speaker 2: but you do have to this is part of the
Speaker 2: draft kind of comp where other guys have gone factor
Speaker 2: in that. This draft, you know, it's not super loaded
Speaker 2: a certain positions, so beside the quarterbacks, wide receivers and
Speaker 2: the tackles, Like it's not like there's a million Miles
Speaker 2: Garretts and Nick Bosas sitting there. Doesn't feel like there's
Speaker 2: Sauce Gardner and Stingley and all these corners. So you
Speaker 2: got to factor that into. Like, to me, the thing
Speaker 2: I love most about the draft, the older I get,
Speaker 2: it's like a it's like an economic exercise. It's not
Speaker 2: just about like we think this guy is going to
Speaker 2: be really good, But what price do I have to
Speaker 2: pay to get the guy that I think is gonna
Speaker 2: be really good? Because if and this is where coaches
Speaker 2: in front office people butt heads, right, They're like, just
Speaker 2: take my guy now. It's like we can get him
Speaker 2: in twenty picks, so let's try to just trade back
Speaker 2: like ten, get an extra fourth rounder and still get
Speaker 2: the same guy. And that's where it's it's a fine
Speaker 2: line to play. It's why the best gms don't just
Speaker 2: know how to evaluate the best players. But like and
Speaker 2: I was around Howie, he's manipulating the draft And a
Speaker 2: lot of these guys now exist, right Minnesota's guy Andrew
Speaker 2: Barry some of the more number centric guy that's key,
Speaker 2: but you also to nowhere to go. You also have
Speaker 2: to understand like the talent and the draft and who
Speaker 2: likes who. So there's so many variables. But it's more
Speaker 2: than just well, let's just draft this guy because is
Speaker 2: gonna be a good player. Well could you get this
Speaker 2: guy around later? Because if you could, then that's a
Speaker 2: terrible draft pick. Well in terms of value, in terms
Speaker 2: of value of your pick, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Agree, And that's what I think. Is another like interesting
Speaker 1: storyline of this is now we're gonna get to the
Speaker 1: wide receivers on this episode. But this is a really
Speaker 1: deep class for tackles and wide receivers.
Speaker 2: So are you.
Speaker 1: Gonna go the the elite top shelf guys at the
Speaker 1: top of the draft? Are you gonna trade back and
Speaker 1: then try to like fill out your wide receive because
Speaker 1: a lot of these teams need wide receivers. Are they
Speaker 1: gonna try to fill those needs in Round two? And
Speaker 1: some of the guys we're gonna talk about that, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe go round three. But I know we've talked about
Speaker 1: Michael Pennix on previous episodes and stuff. And look, I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to bury because I know you're you're chomping
Speaker 1: in the bit to sit here and bring up JJ
Speaker 1: McCarthy man. But quick thought some pinnicks because I know
Speaker 1: we've talked about at least some of the concerns about
Speaker 1: his game, and the testing was fantastic. His ability to
Speaker 1: run the forty and go out there and jump and
Speaker 1: show teams that he has the mobility some of the
Speaker 1: times we didn't see that at Washington. But what are
Speaker 1: your thoughts on him, because I know we've talked on
Speaker 1: previous episodes, and I'm curious John's thoughts on it about
Speaker 1: his ability to play from the pocket. But if he's
Speaker 1: pushed off his spot, what does that look like?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 4: When I was on John Show a couple of weeks
Speaker 4: ago on the volume, we talked a little bit about
Speaker 4: the NFL combine props and debro you and I we
Speaker 4: are heavy in the NFL combine forty prop market. One
Speaker 4: of the picks that I put out that drew the
Speaker 4: most raised eyebrows was when I went under Michael Pennix's
Speaker 4: forty number, which was initially I think even in low
Speaker 4: four sevens, and then we.
Speaker 1: Got four sevens last time we saw it.
Speaker 4: Well the last time, so it got pushed down into
Speaker 4: the four to sixes and I was even going under
Speaker 4: at the mid four six is the day that he
Speaker 4: was going to test. Obviously, he ended up not doing
Speaker 4: that at the combine, but again people.
Speaker 3: Were very surprised.
Speaker 4: But what I had heard in his pre combined testing
Speaker 4: the training down there, that he was dusting that number,
Speaker 4: that he was consistently running in the four fives, which
Speaker 4: it was a surprise to people out there. I think
Speaker 4: the eventual number that he put out at the prodage
Speaker 4: just because you didn't see him running as much at Washington.
Speaker 4: I think there's a couple of reasons for that. But
Speaker 4: you know, John mentioned this before when he went to Indiana,
Speaker 4: he was a good athlete coming out. He was seen
Speaker 4: as a dual threat guy. I still do you guys
Speaker 4: remember the COVID season when they upset Penn State and
Speaker 4: he runs around, he has to reach the ball out
Speaker 4: at the goal line. That kid made some plays outside
Speaker 4: the pock more so at Indiana. I think one of
Speaker 4: the factors why he didn't do so as much at
Speaker 4: Washington two factors. One it's the Boris system, but number two,
Speaker 4: I think there was a little bit of protecting him
Speaker 4: the durability stuff. First four years at Indiana he had
Speaker 4: a season ending injury each time. Washington effectively protected him
Speaker 4: in that regard, both with the awesome offensive line. John
Speaker 4: was mentioning, We're going to see a bunch of Washington
Speaker 4: Husky offensive lineman going off the board this year in
Speaker 4: the draft. But you know you had that and then
Speaker 4: as well, you sort of inoculate him from that. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't have I don't have as many concerns about that,
Speaker 4: but I think you do need to keep him inside
Speaker 4: the pocket. You see a little bit of the depreciation
Speaker 4: with the accuracy when his feet are moving. I'll be
Speaker 4: interested to see at the next level will they allow
Speaker 4: him to leave the pocket more like they did in
Speaker 4: Indiana because he can get north south real quick, and
Speaker 4: now he has proven that that even after the injuries,
Speaker 4: he still has that. But can you do that while
Speaker 4: still protecting him health wise? I guess he'll be the big.
Speaker 2: Thing I'm not comparing him to this guy because obviously
Speaker 2: he had an incredible rookie season. He was awesome in
Speaker 2: college too. But when CJ had that game against Georgia
Speaker 2: and it was clearly like, Wow, this guy's a really,
Speaker 2: really good athlete. I think it just makes you view
Speaker 2: a player who is a pocket player and then it's like, well,
Speaker 2: he really can move if he has to, Like one thing,
Speaker 2: like Jered Goff has turned his career around, for sure,
Speaker 2: but he is very dependent on the offensive line the protection,
Speaker 2: Like he can't. You know, it's like it's like cousins,
Speaker 2: Like if you get to him, he can't get away.
Speaker 2: He's just relative to you know, not human beings. But
Speaker 2: NFL players like they're just bad athletes, so they can't.
Speaker 2: They can't. They don't have that capability. It's very old
Speaker 2: school and that player for the most part coming into
Speaker 2: the league doesn't really exist anymore. Right, Most guys have
Speaker 2: some movement skills. Like even like I said, Bryce Young
Speaker 2: is not a good athlete relative to a lot of
Speaker 2: NFL players, he still can move right, but he's I
Speaker 2: wouldn't consider him like mister scramble guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're gonna see I mean every one of
Speaker 1: these prospects. Regardless of position, they win in different ways.
Speaker 1: We know Pennis is going to have to win from
Speaker 1: the pocket. But a guy that Thor we've talked about,
Speaker 1: and you're a guy for the quarterback situation that can
Speaker 1: playoff script has shown that he's a better athlete than
Speaker 1: people give him. Let's talk about the three cone. But
Speaker 1: come on, man, go ahead, lay out the love list,
Speaker 1: the love letter. Go ahead, take the pen out. I
Speaker 1: know you want to sit are and write it right
Speaker 1: now for JJ McCarthy, floor's yours, dude.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I know everyone's surprised that my guy
Speaker 4: quarterback shock K McCart totally shocking. I finally had time
Speaker 4: to get my dentists appointment in on Friday and and
Speaker 4: the guy comes, you know, first the dentalist system brings
Speaker 4: you in and they do whatever they do. And then
Speaker 4: she's like, you know, I'll go and get the dentist.
Speaker 4: And then he comes in and he starts in there
Speaker 4: for a second and then he goes, are you the
Speaker 4: JJ McCarthy guy.
Speaker 1: No, he didn't, Are you serious?
Speaker 3: Swear to God? And I was like, I guess, I
Speaker 3: guess I am.
Speaker 4: And he's like I thought, so so I guess that
Speaker 4: that's what I am now. But this shouldn't be any
Speaker 4: surprise anyone. I've waxed poetic about JJ on these airways
Speaker 4: multiple times, so I'll keep my comments short. Good athlete,
Speaker 4: very good arm. Both of those things were confirmed at
Speaker 4: the Combine as if they needed to. They're all over
Speaker 4: his film. Favorite thing about his projection to the NFL.
Speaker 4: Those two things work in conjunction on the field. There's
Speaker 4: guy Joe Milton would be a good example of a
Speaker 4: guy who has a bazooka for an arm. He's an
Speaker 4: awesome athlete. Those things absolutely do not work in conjunction
Speaker 4: with one another on the field. They do with JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 4: JJ McCarthy, when he's moving around, gets even more dangerous,
Speaker 4: throws frozen ropes to all three sectors up the field.
Speaker 4: The mechanics are always sound when he's on the move,
Speaker 4: keeps the eyes down field, keeps the upper body he cocked,
Speaker 4: keeps that throwing platform under him so he can get
Speaker 4: the ball up quick when he makes the decisions. Seventy
Speaker 4: two point three percent completion percentage last year and the
Speaker 4: aggregate but win scrambling seventy one point four percent. Which
Speaker 4: is pretty absurd, not losing anything off of that win.
Speaker 4: Moving tough kid A sort of a nuance about his
Speaker 4: film that I really appreciated. A lot of quarterback film
Speaker 4: that you see when the guy's about to get deck.
Speaker 3: This is even going to the NFL.
Speaker 4: You will see in some small way that they will
Speaker 4: brace for that hit or they'll fade away a little bit.
Speaker 4: Very very rare instances where you get a quarterback film
Speaker 4: where the guy never does he steps fully into that
Speaker 4: throw and he will eat the shot every single time.
Speaker 4: JJ McCarthy's that guy that helps his accuracy, of course
Speaker 4: under duress, and his ability under duress, and of course
Speaker 4: he is one of the better quarterbacks in this class
Speaker 4: under pressure. By the numbers, the adjusted completion percentage, the
Speaker 4: on target percentage. Last year he is number five in
Speaker 4: the nation and on target accuracy percentage, a lot of
Speaker 4: stuff to like about it. Projection to the NFL been
Speaker 4: pounding the table the whole time. This is a top
Speaker 4: five prospect in the draft, and it appears that that's
Speaker 4: what's going to happen later this month.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, I've been with you. We've
Speaker 1: been riding on the JJ McCarthy training before it was cool.
Speaker 1: I mean, we got takes out there since February. Man,
Speaker 1: we were talking about JJ betting the odds for him
Speaker 1: to go second overall, betting the odds for him to
Speaker 1: go third overall, and everybody said we were crazy at
Speaker 1: that time. Doesn't look so crazy now. But John, before
Speaker 1: I give my guy, because we already brought up Jayden
Speaker 1: Daniels at least off the cuff a little bit here,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on JJ, because I haven't heard
Speaker 1: your JJ McCarthy take.
Speaker 2: I looked at some of his testing numbers. You know,
Speaker 2: I watched him play like anyone in the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, because Michigan has been one of the best
Speaker 2: teams in the country. And when you just watch him
Speaker 2: in a vacuum sometimes like on your couch, you go.
Speaker 2: The conversation has changed, I would say over the last
Speaker 2: couple months in terms of the universal like he's going
Speaker 2: to go really high. I didn't necessarily see a top
Speaker 2: ten player. But when you factor in age, when you
Speaker 2: factor in what he was asked to do. He said
Speaker 2: his numbers in situational spots. He had some athletic testing
Speaker 2: numbers that were very, very similar to Alex Smith. Now
Speaker 2: Alex was taller, but one element that he has that
Speaker 2: Alex he has a much stronger arm. Like if I
Speaker 2: gave Alex, let's use Alex as an example. Let's use
Speaker 2: the picture analogy, Like Alex was a pitcher, but he
Speaker 2: threw eighty nine miles an hour and he was solid
Speaker 2: like he was getting Imagine if Alex Smith had thrown
Speaker 2: ninety four to ninety five right, so he would have
Speaker 2: been everyone would have agreed he's a top seven eight quarterback.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, I think if you do the
Speaker 2: and I text with a couple of scouting buddies, that like,
Speaker 2: that's a pretty good comp So he's a more powerful
Speaker 2: Alex Smith. Obviously the character stuff ironically played for Harbaugh
Speaker 2: as well, But yeah, I mean, I think this guy
Speaker 2: is a one percent lock to go really high. I
Speaker 2: think the only question mark is would Adam Peters take
Speaker 2: him at two over Drake may or you know, Jade
Speaker 2: Daniels is kind of no one quite has a good
Speaker 2: feel for it. I guess it could be any of
Speaker 2: the three guys, and then how it would go, Like
Speaker 2: no one had any clue what New England's going to do,
Speaker 2: because they've had the same guy running it for twenty
Speaker 2: five years. Now they got new people that have never
Speaker 2: done that job, so nothing would shock me. And it's
Speaker 2: pretty clear Arizona's going to trade back, so he go
Speaker 2: anywhere from two to four. But I think it's pretty
Speaker 2: clear he's going somewhere between two and four, right, Yep, agreed.
Speaker 1: I mean I think, like we've said from the very
Speaker 1: beginning of the process, like he's probably gonna be a
Speaker 1: top eight lock. Probably really now it's looking like top five.
Speaker 1: And whether we think like four quarterbacks just go bam
Speaker 1: bam bam bam him off the board, or New England
Speaker 1: trades back and we said that they've been a fantastic
Speaker 1: them in Arizona is where you want to trade into.
Speaker 1: Like if the Chargers don't trade back, and there's all
Speaker 1: the speculation, I think any one of those teams. I
Speaker 1: think the top two teams are locked into their spots.
Speaker 1: They're both going to take quarterbacks. But after that, we'll
Speaker 1: kind of see how the board evolves. It could kind
Speaker 1: of go chalk and we see all the quarterbacks fly.
Speaker 1: We could see a lot of trades and stuff. Man,
Speaker 1: But the guy that I think is going to go
Speaker 1: off the board no later than number top three again.
Speaker 1: And I love his fit. I think he's probably gonna
Speaker 1: go to Washington and we've been discussing that in the
Speaker 1: fit with Cliff Kingsbury and my guy's Jane Daniels.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 1: I love him in this process. I love his game.
Speaker 1: I love the evolution that he's taken on as a
Speaker 1: player and the growth and everybody's first thing about Okay,
Speaker 1: what about the pressure to sack ratio and all these
Speaker 1: different types of things. It's like we need to also
Speaker 1: throw some of the stuff for Arizona, like Arizona State out,
Speaker 1: Like just toss that out, man, because players continue to
Speaker 1: evolve their games and situations change, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: we want to knock okay, Jane Daniels because he played
Speaker 1: with really talented players. Didn't we do this with C. J. Stroud?
Speaker 1: Didn't we do this with Joe Burrow? Like if you're
Speaker 1: watching the film and you can tell what is good
Speaker 1: quarterback play versus okay, who's elevating who? And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that Jane Daniels is pulling these guys along for
Speaker 1: the ride, but Brian Times Junior is a very talented
Speaker 1: ride receiver in his own right. Is he the type
Speaker 1: of talent that where I'm not saying that he doesn't
Speaker 1: deserve to go in the first round, but is he
Speaker 1: this other worldly talent like Rome or top three and stuff. No,
Speaker 1: I think he's a little more limited of a player.
Speaker 1: And I think Jane Daniels deserves all the hype that
Speaker 1: he's getting, man, like the duplicity in his game, what
Speaker 1: he can do to change the equation with both his
Speaker 1: legs and his arm, and I think that he can
Speaker 1: win first of all, from the pocket is where you're
Speaker 1: talking about. You're giving defensive coordinators at the NFL all
Speaker 1: these different types of equations to solve for on a
Speaker 1: moment to moment basis, and Jane Daniels makes it tough, man,
Speaker 1: because all the things he can do from the pocket. Now,
Speaker 1: I know you brought up his weight earlier. I mean,
Speaker 1: yet that's a big concern. It's a big concern because
Speaker 1: of the style of how he runs, and there's enough
Speaker 1: clips and things out on social media of him getting
Speaker 1: blown up, blown out of his shoes when he's running
Speaker 1: through the middle and stuff. But I mean some of
Speaker 1: that can we come down of, Like maybe it's coaching
Speaker 1: and can you teach a guy. Okay, maybe you should
Speaker 1: run out of bounds here, maybe you should slide instead
Speaker 1: of getting absolutely just blown out of the stadium. But
Speaker 1: for I know you love Jane Daniels, but what are
Speaker 1: your thoughts on him? Do you think he deserved like,
Speaker 1: do you think he's definitely locked into the top two
Speaker 1: spots or could you see Washington going with JJ overhim?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: I agree with the odds boards that it is a
Speaker 4: true three horse race at this point for the number
Speaker 4: two peck.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 4: You know, I think all the three of those guys
Speaker 4: are still in consideration.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And you know, the thing to.
Speaker 4: Keep in mind with the NFL draft process, and John
Speaker 4: knows this that these decisions aren't made way way way
Speaker 4: in advance like that. You know, you all the different
Speaker 4: people inside the building, they bring their perspectives on these
Speaker 4: different guys. Those conversations will be hashed out. I would
Speaker 4: be surprised if if mister Peters and the Washington organization
Speaker 4: they one thousand percent new today. There might be a
Speaker 4: lean of some of those top decision makers. But I
Speaker 4: still believe that it is a three horse race there
Speaker 4: and they are actively evaluating those three different guys.
Speaker 1: Well, moving over to running backs, John, I love the
Speaker 1: fact that we're a very Michigan centric show today. A
Speaker 1: guy that has been talked about a lot through the process.
Speaker 1: I'm very curious where he goes in the n draft.
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of Okay, well, does a certain
Speaker 1: team with a certain head coach that loves to run
Speaker 1: the ball draft him in the second of the third round.
Speaker 1: But your guy at the running back position is Blake
Speaker 1: koram Man. What are your thoughts on him and where
Speaker 1: do you see him going in the NFL draft? Like
Speaker 1: lay out the case here for us Man.
Speaker 2: Well, obviously he's not very big. You know, when he
Speaker 2: measures in, it's kind of, you know, glaring, small arms short,
Speaker 2: but you know he to me, he had his receiving
Speaker 2: numbers probably don't parallel this guy, but a lot like
Speaker 2: Frank Gore was to Jim when he was with the
Speaker 2: forty nine ers. He got that's my exact comp for Korum,
Speaker 2: that's my exact comp. I love it to me, to me,
Speaker 2: those guys, I mean, what are we talking. We're talking
Speaker 2: about a pick probably past seventy five, right, so we're
Speaker 2: not We're not drafting this guy in the second round. Uh,
Speaker 2: but I just think this guy knows how to play.
Speaker 2: And running back is one of those positions where you know,
Speaker 2: we'll talk about my wide receiver who gets knocked for
Speaker 2: being a little slower, which you know is a fair argument,
Speaker 2: but running back in terms of like high end speed,
Speaker 2: like most guys are not Age Peterson home run hitters. Right,
Speaker 2: it's about making guys miss, It's about falling forward, It's
Speaker 2: about instinct. Instincts are huge instincts, foot quickness, comfortability in
Speaker 2: terms of inside outside runs. Obviously in this modern day football,
Speaker 2: you've got to be able to catch the ball. His
Speaker 2: receiving numbers aren't great, but I think he has solid hands,
Speaker 2: Like it's not like it's not like he can't do it.
Speaker 2: Because if I'm going to drafted guy in the third
Speaker 2: or fourth round, which easily can immediately become your starter
Speaker 2: or mix in with your starter, he's got to be
Speaker 2: able to catch the ball in this the way the
Speaker 2: football is played now and clearly like and this is
Speaker 2: a big theme we haven't really touched on. And this
Speaker 2: the quarterback thing is ten x all these other positions.
Speaker 2: You know, the character, the football intelligence and from what
Speaker 2: I mean, the information I have most of these guys
Speaker 2: at quarterback are definitely good guys. So you're really nitpicking,
Speaker 2: like who you feel really really comfortable and talking about
Speaker 2: how the decision hasn't been made. Obviously it hasn't been
Speaker 2: made at other positions because you're still going through all
Speaker 2: the scenarios, but at quarterback, you know, you're eating dinner
Speaker 2: and spending time with the people, and it's pretty clear
Speaker 2: Blay korm it's just my type guy. I mean, I
Speaker 2: really value you know, just football junkies. Like that's pretty clear.
Speaker 2: Most of the great players in the NFL are just
Speaker 2: there's not much balance in terms of their love and
Speaker 2: dedication for the sport of football, and there are only
Speaker 2: so many people in the league that are like Trent
Speaker 2: Williams or there's so much freakier than everyone else. The
Speaker 2: margin for difference of the average player and the higher
Speaker 2: end player, I don't think it's that wide. And to me,
Speaker 2: I just I have a hard time seeing Blake Koram.
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's a pro bowler, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: go that far, but just being just being a contributing
Speaker 2: player immediately and if you can get that guy, I
Speaker 2: don't think it's out of the realm possibility he is
Speaker 2: there in the fourth round. You know, it's not viewed
Speaker 2: as a very good from you know, talking to my
Speaker 2: scouting buddy, is a great running back tight end draft,
Speaker 2: so it's gonna be very you know what you like.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so I just I've loved this guy for years.
Speaker 2: He's just my type player, and you play for Harbaugh.
Speaker 2: The physicality, the toughness like that translates, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And you talked about the work ethic. One thing
Speaker 1: with Korum that at least when I was going through
Speaker 1: him for the evaluation portion, that really kind of stut
Speaker 1: out stock out to me. And maybe this is less
Speaker 1: of a concern with that type of work ethic with
Speaker 1: the I mean the massive we have to talk about
Speaker 1: the massive injury that he's sustained at Michigan. Do you
Speaker 1: are you higher or about his ability to rehab and
Speaker 1: get back to being the guy, because there's a big
Speaker 1: difference when you watch his twenty twenty three tape and
Speaker 1: rightfully so, coming back from the injury versus the guy
Speaker 1: he was in twenty twenty one where he is, I mean,
Speaker 1: his tape just explodes his lateral agility, his foot speed,
Speaker 1: especially in traffic is really freaking fun to watch. Do
Speaker 1: you think he can get back to being that guy
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's a huge part of the evaluation, right,
Speaker 2: Is he going to be better out two years than
Speaker 2: three years than he was a year out? You know,
Speaker 2: the wear and tear that he just has in general
Speaker 2: in that program, in the amount of carries, that would
Speaker 2: have to be something obviously, And this is another big
Speaker 2: part of the draft, right, all these guys, the physical
Speaker 2: elements that you have to rely on your doctors and trainers,
Speaker 2: like coaches and the scouts just aren't medical professionals. So
Speaker 2: when they say, hey, this knee injury, and this happens
Speaker 2: with running backs probably more than most positions of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this guy's might be a one contract guy, right, And
Speaker 2: that was remember Jaya Jai, who's famously like was one
Speaker 2: of the best running backs in the country. All of
Speaker 2: a sudden, would he go in like the fourth round
Speaker 2: because most people thought like he just it could go
Speaker 2: two years, three years, four years. I think he ended
Speaker 2: up probably playing a little longer than people expected. But
Speaker 2: the knees, the lower body with that position is just
Speaker 2: you have to feel comfortable with it. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean I would bet on this is why you bet
Speaker 2: on people, right because the rehab, the work ethic, do
Speaker 2: whatever you have to do to get back to strength.
Speaker 2: Now that there's a chance that this is also the
Speaker 2: hard part about the business. Maybe he's never the same
Speaker 2: and that's the reason. Like if he had looked the
Speaker 2: same and not had the injury, we're probably talking about
Speaker 2: a guy, even with the size being a top seventy
Speaker 2: five pick right now, we're talking about a guy falling
Speaker 2: a little bit just because definitely from an explosion standpoint,
Speaker 2: wasn't quite which is something he's gonna have to hang
Speaker 2: his hat on. So's you know, you'd have to be
Speaker 2: betting on that because he's not built like Adrian Peterson.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, And the early down rushing talent is there.
Speaker 1: But over to a guy that we talked about Korum,
Speaker 1: the acumen there. Over to a guy that's still learning
Speaker 1: the running back position. For people that are looking for
Speaker 1: the deep dives of this class, you have an interesting
Speaker 1: name here, man, go ahead.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna stay in the big time
Speaker 4: with Tyrone Tracy Junior. This running back class, you know,
Speaker 4: it's not as attractive certainly at the top. I do
Speaker 4: think that there's some interesting guys when you get later on.
Speaker 4: Tracy's a guy who is going to go at some
Speaker 4: point on Saturday, might even be at the very later
Speaker 4: stages or the latter stages of Saturday. Six seventh round
Speaker 4: could get a little bit higher because of the testing,
Speaker 4: But it is going to be on that day three
Speaker 4: that I think has the ceiling to compare with some
Speaker 4: of the guys in that that are in the consensus
Speaker 4: top five to six in this class. Tyrone Tracy five
Speaker 4: eleven two oh nine nine seven seven ras four four
Speaker 4: eight wheels and what really opened my eyes about him,
Speaker 4: As deebro knows, I went to graduate school at IOWAI
Speaker 4: watch all the Iowa Hawkeye games live, so I had
Speaker 4: seen the first four years at Tyrone Tracy live.
Speaker 2: When that's a lot of bad offense, you're watching live.
Speaker 4: A lot of bad offense, and Tyrone Tracy decided to
Speaker 4: abandon ship there of I'm not getting developed here and
Speaker 4: it's probably not the right position either. The Iowa coaching
Speaker 4: staff had tried to talk to Tyrone Tracy about being
Speaker 4: a wide about moving from white receiver to running back.
Speaker 4: He was resistant to that in Iowa City, so then
Speaker 4: he transfers to Purdue. That coaching staff was effectively able
Speaker 4: to convince him to do that. This past season is
Speaker 4: when he truly broke out. I wasn't prepared for the
Speaker 4: tape that I.
Speaker 3: Saw with him. It really opened my eyes.
Speaker 4: Tyrone Tracy this past season one hundred and sixty three
Speaker 4: point five elusive rating. That's incredible, four point four to
Speaker 4: four yards after contact per attempt. Both those were the
Speaker 4: highest of any of my top thirty running backs in
Speaker 4: this class. People need to keep in mind that Purdue
Speaker 4: team was terrible this past season. It was terrible, bad
Speaker 4: offensive line, new coaching staff that was extremely risk averse
Speaker 4: with their offensive strategy because they had a quarterback that
Speaker 4: doesn't throw it down the field very much, and I
Speaker 4: think also trying to protect that offensive line. So there's
Speaker 4: a lot of just sort of straightforward concepts, different stuff
Speaker 4: like that. Tracy was still racking up all these explosive plays.
Speaker 4: He's a bouncy, juice stuff, wide based slasher with better
Speaker 4: vision and instincts than I had expected heading into that,
Speaker 4: especially with this guy being new to the position of
Speaker 4: running back.
Speaker 3: He runs with tempo.
Speaker 4: He has a knack for timing cutback cutbacks to free
Speaker 4: himself into open grass and by the way and tangentially
Speaker 4: to where the NFL is going, these skills will play
Speaker 4: in the new paradigm of the kick returning rules. Tyrone
Speaker 4: Tracy last year for Due deployed him as a returner.
Speaker 4: He brought one back for a touchdown. He showed explosion
Speaker 4: there as well the explosive runs that we have seen
Speaker 4: in his ability to do damage in space. That is
Speaker 4: going to translate to the next level. Last thing that
Speaker 4: I'll say, and deebro and I had a laugh about
Speaker 4: this because we had the same thing in our notes
Speaker 4: that we independently saw with this. Watching his receiving cut
Speaker 4: up was very frustrating talking about the straightforward concepts of
Speaker 4: the Purdue thing. All of his catches, it was one
Speaker 4: of two things. It was either the same concept if
Speaker 4: it was designed. They would fake a handoff one way
Speaker 4: and then Tracy would go the other way and the
Speaker 4: quarterback would do a swing pass. The defense always knew
Speaker 4: what was coming, so right after he got the bother
Speaker 4: defenders there, they were already flowing to him. He couldn't
Speaker 4: do anything with it. His only other targets were when
Speaker 4: the quarterback was under duress and he was the fourth
Speaker 4: auction on the play of the quarterback was like, well,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna get sacked if I don't just throw it
Speaker 4: to Tyrone. Well, he didn't have any room there. I
Speaker 4: think in the NFL you can expand that more. You
Speaker 4: can let him fly a little bit more as a receiver,
Speaker 4: but he has already showing that ability as a runner,
Speaker 4: especially early on the development curve. I think a team
Speaker 4: is going to get a steal on Saturday with Tyrone Tracy.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you could take a collegiate wide receiver
Speaker 1: that's converted to running back and then you can only
Speaker 1: use him twenty six snaps out out wider in the slot,
Speaker 1: you have to do it right, like he only use
Speaker 1: them on swing passes and nothing creative at all. As Purdue, like,
Speaker 1: you have to do that absolutely. I mean, of course,
Speaker 1: that's why you're gonna feel the best offense. But moving
Speaker 1: over from Purdue's woe ful situation to a guy that
Speaker 1: I've I've talked about him throughout numerous shows, I've got
Speaker 1: to bring him up here. Marshawn Lloyd's a guy I've
Speaker 1: loved this entire process he runs freaking mean inmobile. That
Speaker 1: was the first thing I had to ask him. I
Speaker 1: was like, who hurts you?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: Where do you get this attitude? Dude? Where you're running?
Speaker 1: He's a tone setting running back. And whether you want
Speaker 1: to talk about the numbers, he's top twenty and basically
Speaker 1: every efficiency elusivity metric that you could pull up over
Speaker 1: the last two years or you're turning on the film,
Speaker 1: and he's got the ability to create yards on his own.
Speaker 1: In mobile, he showed the ability to be a three
Speaker 1: down back, beating guys on angle routes, beating guys on
Speaker 1: a wheel route, to close two specific practices day after
Speaker 1: day with standout plays. So Marshawn Lloyd's one of the
Speaker 1: few three down, true three down running backs I think
Speaker 1: in this class. I'm very interested to see where he goes.
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Speaker 1: fun part of this class man, the wide receiver position.
Speaker 1: The guys that we've talked about on numerous episodes. John,
Speaker 1: kick it off here, man, I know you love this guy. Look,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people on both sides of
Speaker 1: the aisle. Tell me why you love Kean coleman.
Speaker 2: Ka I'm biased. I like I mentioned earlier my guy
Speaker 2: Derek Ray who's basically the GM there I was. I
Speaker 2: was on the phone with him in training camp before
Speaker 2: the LSU game and he's like, we got we got
Speaker 2: a couple of whiteouts transfer portal watch out obviously that
Speaker 2: you know, he busted on the scene. Keon Coleman in
Speaker 2: that game. We have three touchdowns. I mean, he was
Speaker 2: It was just like, geez, this is gonna work. And
Speaker 2: I understand with bigger bodied, contested catch guys that don't
Speaker 2: run really fast, it's a concern, right, because if you're
Speaker 2: gonna hang your hat on just constant contested catches, it's
Speaker 2: gonna be difficult to have a career, like you can't
Speaker 2: just DeAndre Hopkins is an outlier, not normal, right, but
Speaker 2: you know, and this guy ran faster. But Mike Williams
Speaker 2: is an example who wasn't I wouldn't call it blazer
Speaker 2: now he plays pretty fast, who was drafted seventh overall.
Speaker 2: And this guy, his ball skills, his touch, you know,
Speaker 2: his ability in space or I mean with a in
Speaker 2: a contested catch in space to high point the ball
Speaker 2: is pretty special. And I was looking before I hopped on,
Speaker 2: I was like, just double check this guy. He's twenty
Speaker 2: years old, right, now. So he's about to turn twenty one.
Speaker 2: And we've seen guys physical wide receivers who are young
Speaker 2: a different player, but like Juju was really young when
Speaker 2: he came into the NFL, right, and you just get
Speaker 2: a guy. And this is why part of the reason
Speaker 2: why I like him is it's pretty clear. The top
Speaker 2: guys we're all talking about going really high, right, top
Speaker 2: all the top three guys going within the top what
Speaker 2: twelve you know? I mean, this is guy now we're
Speaker 2: talking about, is a second round pick, right, So I
Speaker 2: can get this guy in the second round who's twenty
Speaker 2: years who will be twenty years old when I draft him.
Speaker 2: Now he turns I think twenty one in May. But
Speaker 2: I mean, you're talking about a very young, and let's
Speaker 2: face it, pretty raw guy. The basketball background, I do
Speaker 2: wonder too, like once you really focus, can he just
Speaker 2: improve with the quickness a little bit like looking for
Speaker 2: him to become Deshaun Jackson here. But I just think
Speaker 2: that his physicality, how naturally he is in the air.
Speaker 2: The other thing is so many teams now because I
Speaker 2: was thinking about this today when I was thinking about
Speaker 2: what wide receiver to give you guys, just like a
Speaker 2: lot of these players right like jayde Daniel is a
Speaker 2: good example. He is, He's gonna be very dependent on
Speaker 2: who his coordinator is, how they ask him to play.
Speaker 2: Most quarterbacks are not like Andrew Locke or Peyton Manning
Speaker 2: probably would have succeeded no matter what. Most guys are
Speaker 2: not that. Like Lamar Jackson, who has become a great player,
Speaker 2: benefited a lot from falling and going to the Ravens.
Speaker 2: He obviously had an easier path in the sense of
Speaker 2: goes to a high level place with a good defense
Speaker 2: and who just can like pivot and change their offense
Speaker 2: around in a heartbeat blink of an eye. So to me,
Speaker 2: if he goes to a place that already has speed
Speaker 2: on the outside, which it feels like a lot of
Speaker 2: teams just have. I mean, there's this virtual wide receivers
Speaker 2: on so many squads and he can kind of play.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Ideally, if you're taking guy in the second round, you
Speaker 2: want him to be a better player. But I think
Speaker 2: about Juwan Jennings right now for the Niners, who plays
Speaker 2: in the slot, such a big body and the way
Speaker 2: he's playing right now, can he be like that? Immediately
Speaker 2: use him in the red zone. I just think he
Speaker 2: has traits that translate and from what I've heard people
Speaker 2: people liked him in Florida State, like work ethic and
Speaker 2: like I said, the youth, and this is what JJ
Speaker 2: McCarthy has going for him. It's like you, part of
Speaker 2: the draft is not just about twenty twenty four, especially
Speaker 2: with higher picks, you know, in the first couple rounds,
Speaker 2: it's about like over the next course of two or
Speaker 2: three years, as they maybe replace some of my starters.
Speaker 2: I like going free agency, So you'd be betting on
Speaker 2: kind of the future a little bit with this guy,
Speaker 2: because you know, I think most people would agree still
Speaker 2: pretty raw, which is crazy when you look at it
Speaker 2: with his production and I don't know where you guys
Speaker 2: stand out. I don't quarterback sad story with the ankle
Speaker 2: and how I thought he was a pretty average player,
Speaker 2: you know, just kind of he wasn't exactly. Daniels Layer Yep, agreed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the quarterback would you're looking at
Speaker 1: the counting stats and especially the archetype of players playing
Speaker 1: with guys and that the name that that that pops
Speaker 1: into my mind when Kean Coleman's brought up is Kenny
Speaker 1: Galladay too, same type of archetype contested catch guy, not
Speaker 1: the greatest separator. We could talk about route running and
Speaker 1: things like that for days, man, but I think like
Speaker 1: the quarterback play is very It's paramount there because not
Speaker 1: only are you talking about like his skill set and
Speaker 1: how that translate, but also the quarterback play. And you
Speaker 1: have to have quarterbacks that not only have the the
Speaker 1: the arm talent to fit the ball into the contested situations,
Speaker 1: but are willing to grip it and rip it and
Speaker 1: throw into those situations like some quarterbacks are not willing
Speaker 1: to do that. They wanted to see guys running open,
Speaker 1: you know, and how that looks. Man, And so looking
Speaker 1: at Florida State, it was a grab bag of all
Speaker 1: like quarterback play, what he was asked to do, his role,
Speaker 1: all those different types of things. But staying in Florida
Speaker 1: for you got a chance to interview this player at
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl, and I know you're enamored with his game. Man,
Speaker 1: Just go ahead, just spit the good news on Ricky Piersoll.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, Ricky Piersoll's my guy at wide receiver. Last
Speaker 4: three years he was the wide receiver one for Jaden Daniels,
Speaker 4: the aforementioned Jade Daniels, then Anthony Richardson, then Graham Mertz
Speaker 4: last year, and now he's coming off this dominant pre
Speaker 4: draft process. He impressed us down and Mobile at the
Speaker 4: Senior ball had a very eye opening NFL combine, showing
Speaker 4: tested as a better athlete than than I thought he would.
Speaker 3: Nine.
Speaker 4: Raz on the full gamut of tests at six foot
Speaker 4: one point eight nine tremendous route runner both against man
Speaker 4: and against Zny has a very good feel for that
Speaker 4: modulates tempo. The head and shoulder fakes, the hard cuts
Speaker 4: coax his false steps out of the defenders across from him,
Speaker 4: introduces doubt in their head. You know, he just you
Speaker 4: can never get a beat on what he's doing. And
Speaker 4: then he also keeps working on extended plays, the freelance
Speaker 4: himself open. Best part of his evail though, is the
Speaker 4: ridiculous hands, you know, And this is the thing I
Speaker 4: talked with him about in Mobile. This guy who had
Speaker 4: been a staple of the Sports Center Top ten going
Speaker 4: back years and years and years. Dee bro that catch
Speaker 4: against Charlotte that he had the one handed catcher. Then
Speaker 4: he gets fresh one of the great catches that we've
Speaker 4: seen in college football over the last decade, but it's
Speaker 4: not just a one off. The kid eighty six point
Speaker 4: eight PFF hands Gray last year spears balls outside of
Speaker 4: his frame on the move with regularity. Obviously he is
Speaker 4: just about money in the bank with anything inside of
Speaker 4: his frame. You do not see that guy drop anything.
Speaker 4: The concentration very very good. He showed the collegiate versatility
Speaker 4: that he could play.
Speaker 3: On the inside and outside.
Speaker 4: When we spoke to him in Mobile, he said the
Speaker 4: NFL was predominantly at that time talking to him about
Speaker 4: the slot. I wonder if how well he tested again
Speaker 4: nine point nine, he tested as a ninety ninth percentile
Speaker 4: sides adjusted athlete on the full.
Speaker 3: Gamut a test.
Speaker 4: I wonder if that, in conjunction with his tape, the
Speaker 4: NFL or the team that ends up taking which who
Speaker 4: obviously will be higher on him because that's how the
Speaker 4: draft war.
Speaker 3: If they will.
Speaker 4: Use him as he was in college, where you both
Speaker 4: use him on the inside and the outside, that would
Speaker 4: be my suggestion.
Speaker 3: I think he's proven that he could probably do that.
Speaker 4: But even just as an NFL slot, he's gonna be
Speaker 4: able to start immediately. He's gonna do some damage. He's
Speaker 4: going to be a high volume type target guy in
Speaker 4: the NFL.
Speaker 1: Yeah, big agree, man, And you know I've come around
Speaker 1: on Pearce all more after I went back to the tape,
Speaker 1: after we had more tape coming back from Senior Bowl
Speaker 1: and stuff. I think that he's a route runner for
Speaker 1: days and days. I think that all the puff and praise,
Speaker 1: especially after the top shelf testing, man, he deserves all
Speaker 1: of it. And a guy that did not test like
Speaker 1: a top shelf athlete. And I wasn't surprised on this.
Speaker 1: My guy is Jabon Baker, has been Javon Baker, remains
Speaker 1: Javon Baker, and a lot of this comes down to
Speaker 1: he's being underrated in this process and I think he's
Speaker 1: going to go higher than people believe in the NFL draft.
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised by any of the testing. I thought
Speaker 1: he was a four or five guy. I thought all
Speaker 1: of his short area agility stuff was going to come
Speaker 1: in great, like good, but not great. And I think
Speaker 1: that if you look at and people can talk about
Speaker 1: the drops and stuff, look at the role he was
Speaker 1: playing at UCF. He was the downfield guy and he
Speaker 1: can be that he can stretch the field, but it's
Speaker 1: not because they're all speed. It's because of how good
Speaker 1: he is as a route runner and manipulating corners. I
Speaker 1: think Javon Baker is going to be a high volume
Speaker 1: guy in the NFL. I think some team is going
Speaker 1: to get a steal for a player that last year
Speaker 1: was eighth in yards per route run against all FBS
Speaker 1: wide receivers at least fifty targets. You look at all
Speaker 1: the guys that had boatload ninety eight guys that had
Speaker 1: a boatload of contested catch situations. He was twentieth and
Speaker 1: contest to catch rate. So we could talk about the drops,
Speaker 1: and we could talk about, oh, the testing and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. I care about your route running and I
Speaker 1: care about the other parts about your game, and so
Speaker 1: Javon Baker has been my guy, remains my guy. But
Speaker 1: over to the tight end position, boys, John just kick
Speaker 1: us off here. Man one of the best players, most
Speaker 1: talented guys in the draft. Thorn and I have talked
Speaker 1: about him. I can't wait to hear your take on him.
Speaker 1: But we've discussed him as not just being the best
Speaker 1: tight end in this class, but he is an offensive weapon.
Speaker 2: Why is brock Bauers your guy? I think he's one
Speaker 2: of the better prospects in recent memory, like love pound
Speaker 2: for pound if he was if he played quarterback, I mean,
Speaker 2: he'd be like, we'd be talking about like him, like
Speaker 2: he's Caleb Williams or something. I mean, he's I'm biased
Speaker 2: people from northern California, and he went to Napa High School.
Speaker 2: And you know a lot of guys that are star
Speaker 2: players in the Sacramento Bay area end up at Oregon,
Speaker 2: end up at Washington, end up at USC This guy
Speaker 2: went to the prominent program in the country and was
Speaker 2: I would say, relatively immediately arguably their best player on
Speaker 2: a team with I haven't seen the latest count, but
Speaker 2: like seventy five guys that got drafted the last two years.
Speaker 2: So it's not the thing is And I was talking
Speaker 2: to Coward about this yesterday. If you're a scout, you've
Speaker 2: seen him. The best athletes on defense play in the
Speaker 2: SEC right top to bottom. Well, he hasn't just annihilated
Speaker 2: them for three years. Think of who he went against
Speaker 2: him practice for a couple of years. Can you If
Speaker 2: I was scout and I had any reservations, I'd be like, Hey, Kirby,
Speaker 2: can we just pull up the last couple of years
Speaker 2: of just some drill work with him, like one on ones,
Speaker 2: seven on seven whatever. I mean, all these every guy
Speaker 2: wasn't isn't just starting or playing in the NFL. These
Speaker 2: guys were all like top fifty picks. So he's just
Speaker 2: an elite player in a league that that position. Now,
Speaker 2: all the good teams have this. I mean, look at
Speaker 2: the Final four, right, I know, Mark Andrews's bank was
Speaker 2: banged up, but Travis Kelce, George Kittle, Laporta, you know,
Speaker 2: this is just that position. I mean, Belichick's been honest
Speaker 2: since like the eighties. When you get a guy who
Speaker 2: you know can be a hybrid on the line of scrimmage,
Speaker 2: even in the slot, like who's covering that guy? I mean,
Speaker 2: who who is? When you get that and I saw
Speaker 2: his measurables, someone put him right up against Sam Laporta,
Speaker 2: who you know, I think it's fair to say has
Speaker 2: a chance to be like one of the next stars
Speaker 2: in the NFL if you just were gonna project based
Speaker 2: on his rookie season. So to do that in that program.
Speaker 2: It's one thing to become a star at Alabama or
Speaker 2: Georgia Ohio State. But when you immediately are like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this guy is on a different level. There was no
Speaker 2: waiting process. It was immediate, right, And that's what we've
Speaker 2: seen with just high end impact players like you know,
Speaker 2: Miles Garrett or the Bosa brothers or Zeke, Like you
Speaker 2: just kind of know right away. You're like, now as
Speaker 2: you get older injury, I'm just saying right now his ability, Like,
Speaker 2: I think he's an immediate impact player now the value.
Speaker 2: I was talking with Daniel Jeremiah because listen, if the
Speaker 2: quarterbacks go one through four, the Chargers could get stuck.
Speaker 2: Takes two to tango, right, you got what if no
Speaker 2: one's willing to trade? So when you're there, what would
Speaker 2: you do? And I was texting with a scouting buddy.
Speaker 2: I was like, shouldn't they just take you know, could
Speaker 2: all play right tackle? And just figured out He's like, well,
Speaker 2: there's so many tackles in this draft. You could get
Speaker 2: a right tackle. Later you might as well go get
Speaker 2: a touchdown maker. And we say the wide receivers, but like,
Speaker 2: shouldn't this guy be in the mix now? The difference
Speaker 2: is financially, when you draft a guy five overall, he's
Speaker 2: immediately making eight nine million dollars and the franchise tag
Speaker 2: for a tight end is twelve. So you're like, well,
Speaker 2: you're already paying him kind of premium money. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: I think this guy's a premium player. So you just
Speaker 2: you're not getting this guy in the second or third round. Now,
Speaker 2: if you want to take Marvin Harrison or Neighbors or whatever,
Speaker 2: I totally understand. But you're telling me if you get
Speaker 2: this guy with Harbaugh and Herbert, it wouldn't work immediately. Like,
Speaker 2: I just I have a hard time seeing if you
Speaker 2: told me this, the Chargers took him at five overall,
Speaker 2: and you tell me he plays seventeen games, I'd be like,
Speaker 2: he catches ninety four balls next year. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, there's so many different ways you can
Speaker 1: go in the draft and where the Chargers have their
Speaker 1: their board set up. But am I gonna fault them
Speaker 1: if they take him fifth overall? We're talking about if
Speaker 1: you're looking at him and being an offensive weapon and
Speaker 1: being the guy like, because the other thing about this
Speaker 1: from the word.
Speaker 2: Ideally you want to take it like thirteen or twelve.
Speaker 1: I gueah, yeah, if all things are on the on
Speaker 1: the table and everything's was and what, Yes, I don't
Speaker 1: disagree at all. But if you're stuck and you make
Speaker 1: the pick and he's the top guy on your board,
Speaker 1: and you're saying, this is a guy that came into
Speaker 1: Georgia and was the number one target in that passing
Speaker 1: attack from the word go, can.
Speaker 2: He do that?
Speaker 1: And we believe he could do that in Los Angeles? Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I have no qualms about that at all. And Thor,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna transition this to you. We already talked about
Speaker 1: the pain of watching Iowa football, and I know the
Speaker 1: pain of you know, it was not great to lose
Speaker 1: this guy last year to another injury and stuff, and
Speaker 1: we can get into the weeds about injuries for days,
Speaker 1: but one of the bright spots about watching Iowa football
Speaker 1: was well, Eric.
Speaker 4: Abb only for the first month and a half of
Speaker 4: the season until or so until he tore his ACL
Speaker 4: and deebra Obviously, we're doing the tight End episode next
Speaker 4: week where we're going to deep dive the scouting reports
Speaker 4: and all these guys, so we're going to keep our
Speaker 4: comments a little bit shorter on these guys, but you know,
Speaker 4: in advance of that episode, but just a bird's eye
Speaker 4: view of Eric Hall six four and a half two
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty two pounds. Started his career at one
Speaker 4: tight end factory, Jim Harbas at Michigan, then ends up
Speaker 4: transferring to Iowa, the other tight end factor there in
Speaker 4: the Big Ten. He is a medical question guy where
Speaker 4: if he overcomes those medical things in the NFL, he
Speaker 4: is going.
Speaker 3: To be a steel.
Speaker 4: The kid is a super duper skilled receiver, which again
Speaker 4: we'll talk about more on next week's episode. Who is
Speaker 4: also a very very good athlete. He has proven in
Speaker 4: college that he can have multiple utilities. At Michigan he
Speaker 4: was their h back move tight end type guy. At
Speaker 4: Iowa he was used as the inline type guy. He
Speaker 4: did have that back injury season ending at Michigan the
Speaker 4: end of his career. There had a bit of a
Speaker 4: disagreement with the Michigan staff about how to go about that.
Speaker 4: There is also some mystery about exactly what happened during
Speaker 4: the back surgery, exactly what you know. The NFL teams
Speaker 4: with their medicals, they will figure that out. And then
Speaker 4: of course he had the torn a clro from this
Speaker 4: past season, which is why he couldn't test. But we'll
Speaker 4: get deeper into his game on next week's episode. But
Speaker 4: I just think that this kid as long as he
Speaker 4: stays healthy in the NFL, which of course is the
Speaker 4: big question. The NFL medical staffs will have to decide
Speaker 4: for that on their own. But if he can stay
Speaker 4: healthy in the NFL, this guy's going to be a
Speaker 4: steal at the price point that he's at.
Speaker 3: And he's not getting discussed enough.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I look, I was fighting you for him for this episode.
Speaker 1: You and I were like, look, I want all, No,
Speaker 1: you want all? No, no, no, no no. Who's going to
Speaker 1: get all? And I don't disagree with you. I think
Speaker 1: that he's going to be slept on. I think that
Speaker 1: he is going to go and be a steal assuming
Speaker 1: he gets back to full health. The kids skills are
Speaker 1: all there, and I want to bring up a guy
Speaker 1: that might not get all the puff and praise and
Speaker 1: he's not going to get all the glorious alliterations about
Speaker 1: what he can do at the NFL level, But I
Speaker 1: love his game man, Ben's. I think that he's a
Speaker 1: He's a fantastic two way tight end. You look at
Speaker 1: the receiving utility last year, top ten in both PFF
Speaker 1: receiving great and yards per route run. He's a really
Speaker 1: freaking good blocker you can use him in a multitude
Speaker 1: of ways, not only in line but some h back stuff.
Speaker 1: You could use him as a lead blocker. I think
Speaker 1: that looking at his talent profile as well as he
Speaker 1: tested so freaking good man, Like we're talking ninety eighth
Speaker 1: percentile burst score, seventy fifth percentile speed scores. Like the
Speaker 1: kid can play. So I'm very curious where he goes
Speaker 1: in the NFL draft. But he's definitely one of my guys.
Speaker 1: And I mean, look, we've talked about a ton of
Speaker 1: fantastic prospects in this entire episode. Speaking of my guys, John,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for stopping by. Man, you're doing
Speaker 1: awesome work over at the Volume. Where can people check
Speaker 1: out all your stuff? Man, it's been a treat to
Speaker 1: have you on the show.
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, I really enjoyed it. You guys are rushing
Speaker 2: on fantasy pros.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 2: He guys a boom and business. Let me tell you
Speaker 2: three and out podcast all content daily, just podcast a NonStop.
Speaker 2: We're on Apple, Spotify, YouTube. Everything gets posted to YouTube,
Speaker 2: so it's really easy to fault if you. Social media
Speaker 2: will always post everything. It's just my name at John Middlecoff.
Speaker 2: The Volume posts everything, so all my stuff's pretty easy
Speaker 2: to find.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Man, you need to be checking out John Middlecough's work,
Speaker 1: and you need to be a subscribing to this podcast
Speaker 1: and tuning into next week's episode. Again, Thor talked about this.
Speaker 1: We're gonna run through the entirety of the tight end class,
Speaker 1: get deep into the weeds about all these guys, their
Speaker 1: skill sets, where they go, what we love, what we
Speaker 1: want to see them improve. Man, But get subscribed, tune
Speaker 1: into next week's episode for Thor I and mister John Middlecough.
Speaker 1: We're out of here.
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