Algorithmic fix.
I am Franca today with Alex Schumacher.
Alex, how are you doing today?
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
Can you tell us a little bit about the effects of pickled herring?
The book that you're bringing with us today?
Yeah.
Now, there's a lot of, you can hear the confusion in Micah's voice
and stuff like that as he's experiencing just touches of what's going on.
His family.
What I love is there's panic and confusion in his.
In his mother's voice as well, and with his grandfather.
How did you try to capture that for new audience?
How hard was it to kind of shift gears into a younger audience?
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah.
Speaking of the complex issue of anxiety.
Page 91, I think you did a great job of kind of
was as soon as Micah said it was like, I get that when he talks about
I need a break from my own brain and the brain walking away.
There it is. That one.
And I was like, my God, you're going to feel like that a lot.
The future buddy.
Yeah.
Clearly, the first layer story here is the bar and bar mitzvah.
How do you use those to kind of progress the story?
Because I know in the beginning
where we're starting off with them both as children
and they're becoming adults by the end of the story.
How does that affect the other stories going on?
Yeah.
Well said.
Yeah.
Now we have.
We're seeing this through Micah's eyes.
And again, the tension is constantly rising for him.
But a lot of times when he's looking at his sister, Alana, she seems so confident.
Is that just her coping in a different way?
Yeah.
Some of the really nice conversation between brother and sister.
They're like, we're both on the same page.
It's just we're trying to hide it a little bit or handle in different ways.
Yeah.
Now, speaking of Micah's mom, she seems to start to maybe unravel a little bit.
Or there's one particular line that was very impactful to me
where she's talking about.
I just need to make sure that your grandmother is here for your
bar mitzvah.
I think she says at the time.
Is that something that maybe because this is a love letter
to your grandparents, is that something you experienced in your own parents?
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
I believe.
You know, I've lived this story on two different fronts
where I've been the kid who's kind of learning for the first time
and the adult that's
try to try to explain it to nephew nieces of, like, what's going on right now.
And there are a lot of things that I saw so much of the mom that seemed so familiar
where it's like
suddenly there's almost like a rush to things,
but you're also trying to enjoy the moments you have.
And I really liked how I almost felt like out of nowhere,
Sarah shows up and she's hanging out at the hospital, too.
There's like aunts and uncles who start coming in
more often that you don't normally see until holidays.
And yeah, it's just that that shift in the entire family's focus to,
hey, you know, for the next couple of months
we're going to be here doing this thing for a while. And
yeah, that's difficult for kids to fully understand.
But as an adult, you recognize the situation right now.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
It was. It was really well done.
And that it wasn't hamstrung like the ending was.
No spoilers, of course, but was very realistic.
And I liked that a lot.
And you just feel for the grandfather, the people that are going to live
this new life and everybody involved in it was really well done.
Yeah.
Micah He goes, This is kind of mid book.
He almost wants to escape.
The situation is in for what? For whatever reason will stay.
And he goes to his grandparents house.
And while he's there, I think he's starting to realize his role shifting
as a grandson to be a little more caretaker.
And sitting with his grandfather, who's dealing with him stuff.
And yeah, you're starting to see that transition in that character alone.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
yeah.
Yeah.
And the dreaming changes to, you know, a whole new focus on
the fear is arising that maybe wasn't there before.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And even when he returns, the first thing he does
is he tells us it's worse than we thought.
Because, of course, then being on the outside of the loop and stuff
like that, they're they're trying to form their own opinions of what's going on.
And after that, he goes back to work.
It's like, No, this is different than we thought it was.
And their imaginations can never look at what the reality is.
And he's coming back with bad news.
Unfortunately.
Yeah.
And there's even a maturity
to Alana where she's, like, not here at school, you know, like, she's.
She knows. The bad news is coming, but, like.
Like it's not, though, that right now I have to do school
and, like, the wrong place, wrong time.
It's like she already knows the news. Jodi knows information.
She just knows when it's best to process and it's not right now.
So there's.
Yeah.
Let's go ahead and go into the animation, too, because it's this.
You almost forget it. Become a comic or a graphic novel, right?
Because you're just you're so into the stories of like that.
But visually, I mean, this is definitely your art style.
We've seen it before.
How did you make that transition, though, to something a little bit more
kid friendly in comparison to the last work?
Yeah.
Classic.
Yeah.
Even I'm looking at page 140 here, but
something that I think normally you would have multiple bubbles on one
panel or something like that. A little bit more of a in-depth read.
This is a conversation between son and mother.
And it's, you know, one dialog, one panel, and it's a much faster back
for back and forth,
I think is a lot more kind of Saturday morning cartoon style where it's faster
paced dialog, keeping your attention while also,
you know, getting into a really deep conversation.
And it's a really a good mix of the two. I think.
Yeah, exactly that.
Yeah.
Yeah. Because both them are like the same size or feels like do do do do, do.
Real quick on them.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Both sides are kind of right in their own mind,
and they just try to get their point across.
Right?
Yeah.
Now, I wanted to make sure
to give a shout out to a couple of pages here that you dedicated to a story.
And the art style is very different for these pages.
Of course.
What was your inspiration for these ones in particular?
Is it something from your childhood?
Yeah.
Telling a story.
Love it.
yeah.
Yeah.
You're right with that tonal shift, too.
Because as soon as it switches to that, it's like when your grandparents
use to tell you stories, you'll get settled in reverse. Right?
It's not very many pages, but it gets you in.
That mindset immediately is like, okay, settle in.
You're not going to go speaking past this. That's good.
No. Yeah.
Great tale.
well,
yeah.
Yeah.
The rest of the book definitely does have some strong sun.
Sun cartoons and in the old newspapers vibe to it.
So it really feels like that.
And like you're saying, a slice of life for sure.
And it was very one of the panels.
I couldn't find the page for what I love.
I love it Where you're discussing three different moments, but it's still just
one. Micah And it's his clothes shifting between the three panels.
that was so cool.
Looking at live really turned out well done.
Was good.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was one of the very I really kind of like, that's cool.
I, you know, you notice it how good or how well it was done.
So it's good.
All right, well, let's start buttoning things up here.
I want to make sure we get people head into the right direction.
And I want to see for anybody who's interested in this book,
what is one of the takeaways you want to make sure that people
are pulling from this book when they're reading it
right?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah,
absolutely.
Yeah.
You may feel like you're on the outs,
but I like how Micah feels relatable on so many different levels.
Even at my age.
At 38 years old, I still related to Micah says perfect.
Yeah.
All right, guys.
So the effects of pickled herring, I mean, have the links in their bio
for multiple different places.
You could buy this book, preferably shop local if you can.
You guys living in Sacramento, We have so many wonderful shops.
What's that.
Area?
No, that's perfect.
Bookstore. Okay, I'm gonna make sure that because I didn't have that.
Okay, that's perfect.
So, yes, please pick up this book.
It is fantastic.
Alex, where can people follow you online?
Okay, app.
Links the description. Guys.
Make sure you click around and follow everything.
Yeah, I know.
I know. You're still active on Twitter quite a bit over on Instagram now.
I'm starting to see you on Instagram more and more. The feeds.
It's like the feed.
Ignore people sometimes be like, that's right.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah, Yeah,
you're right.
Yeah,
absolutely.
Yeah.
And you've got to if you enjoy what you're doing
and you enjoy what you make, then that's all in personal matters, in my opinion.
There's so many times where I have people like fellow podcasters that are like,
I wish I had more numbers.
Jeff on recording it,
you know, that's that's the part you've got to ask yourself. So
yeah,
yeah.
That's a.
Exactly, Exactly.
Very well. So that's a good final marks there.
Again, the effects of pickled herring, all the links in the description.
Thank you very much for joining me.
I appreciate it.
Of course, everybody will see you guys next week. Bye.