Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steffone
Speaker 1: Never Told your production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2: And welcome to another edition of the minist Around the World.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go ahead and let you all see
Speaker 2: behind the curtains a bit. It's been a rough several
Speaker 2: days due to some things that has happened in my family,
Speaker 2: which I'm going to talk about for the Happy Hour.
Speaker 2: So if y'all stay tuned this week or whenever y'all
Speaker 2: want to do this, you may understand why. But so
Speaker 2: with that, I'm kind of cheating on this one, Annie,
Speaker 2: because I've been kind of in a brain fog. I
Speaker 2: actually did choose a specific person that I was going
Speaker 2: to come to, but I've just been, you know, in
Speaker 2: that level of like chaos emotional state. Also, just like
Speaker 2: for me, when I get into a specific place where
Speaker 2: it's sadness and depression and like emergency situations, I go blank.
Speaker 2: I am the freeze, but it looks like I'm being stoic.
Speaker 2: So it's like I don't necessarily cry, but I don't
Speaker 2: emote well. My tone of voice goes down and octave,
Speaker 2: which has always been funny to me, like why do
Speaker 2: I do that? And I think you can hear that
Speaker 2: a little bit now.
Speaker 3: But with that, I'm.
Speaker 2: Doing a little cheating with this episode specifically because I
Speaker 2: wanted it to come back and talk about the four
Speaker 2: Be movement, which is the South Korean feminist movement that
Speaker 2: we talked about previously on an episode. In the feminist
Speaker 2: movement in South Korea, because I've seen a lot of
Speaker 2: things that's popping up on tiktoget is really like rearing up,
Speaker 2: especially in the US, about what this movement is and
Speaker 2: how indicative it is to everyone, all women essentially in
Speaker 2: all people marginalized communities when it comes to finding the patriarchy,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of gogotten its own type of legend
Speaker 2: behind it because as we I think said previously, it's
Speaker 2: actually a small sect when it comes to what's happening
Speaker 2: in South Korea. Not a lot of people in South
Speaker 2: Korea are talking about it, and that's kind of one
Speaker 2: of the big things that TikTok creators have been talking about.
Speaker 2: Who are Asian or know a little more about this,
Speaker 2: they will tell you immediately it's not as big as
Speaker 2: you think it is.
Speaker 3: A b there's.
Speaker 2: A lot of problems within this movement that you have
Speaker 2: to consider, and I want to take time to talk
Speaker 2: about that part because we also talked about the declining
Speaker 2: birth rate, which is like South Korea has the lowest
Speaker 2: birth rate at this point in time and continues to
Speaker 2: go lower. And we did talk about the fact that, yes,
Speaker 2: a part of this is because of the patriarchy and
Speaker 2: sexism within South Korea, but also another big part of
Speaker 2: that is because it's unaffordable and unattainable to have children
Speaker 2: and live a life that is not impoverished essentially, and honestly,
Speaker 2: like I want to link that to my own conversations
Speaker 2: about adoption and why adoption even started in South Korea
Speaker 2: and why it became such a big movement in South Korea,
Speaker 2: and how all these children were just pretty much exported
Speaker 2: out because they were a product. But this is that
Speaker 2: same level of conversation. It never really has helped at all,
Speaker 2: and then the people who are responsible for child bearing
Speaker 2: and child bearing are not helped in any way. So
Speaker 2: that's part of the big reason. But when we talked
Speaker 2: about the four bing movement, we're talking about you know
Speaker 2: the four nos, which is no sex, no marriage, no relationships,
Speaker 2: no child bearing, all of that. So with that, which
Speaker 2: sounds like a great idea. But one of the conversations
Speaker 2: that have been happening within TikTok community, within feminist community
Speaker 2: is the fact that when it comes to the trans
Speaker 2: community in South Korea, they are not welcomed as in fact,
Speaker 2: there has been accusations that this depth of radical feminists
Speaker 2: that have happened within South Korea are pretty much turfs,
Speaker 2: and that's exactly who they are. There is a group
Speaker 2: of radical femin is called the Womed, which is like
Speaker 2: putting women in nomad together who have been accused of
Speaker 2: a lot of things that I'm not sure exactly everything.
Speaker 2: Everything is kind of like heresaye for me, because as
Speaker 2: I was researching Annie, there's not much conversation about turfs
Speaker 2: within South Korea other than yeah, obviously they're there, like
Speaker 2: that's kind of it. But there was a conversation about
Speaker 2: how apparently there has been they will go out fully
Speaker 2: testing people to make sure they are quote unquote biologically
Speaker 2: women and we I hate that term. Please don't think
Speaker 2: that I'm trying to say that. I'm just saying this
Speaker 2: is what they are measuring in a very turf speak,
Speaker 2: that they are born with a vagina essentially and that
Speaker 2: they identify as women in that level biologically, and that
Speaker 2: they will test whether they have an Adam's apple, they
Speaker 2: have this like birth certificate, like all these things. They
Speaker 2: go to the extreme to make sure that they are
Speaker 2: not trans and in that level, accusing them of being infiltrated.
Speaker 2: So take what like again, take this with like a
Speaker 2: little bit of what I've been reading and what I've
Speaker 2: been seen trying to really kind of uncover to the
Speaker 2: level like take what JK. Rowling wants to do and
Speaker 2: then times it by five and actually happening in these small,
Speaker 2: very small sects that have existed in South Korea.
Speaker 3: And again this is also that same conversation.
Speaker 2: That they are very very very anti gay when it
Speaker 2: comes to men, so they do not want anything to
Speaker 2: do with gay men either and are very like offensive
Speaker 2: in every way, to the point that one group of
Speaker 2: feminists were like, hey, this is bad. Stop using these
Speaker 2: derogatory terms towards gay men. And they're like, now we
Speaker 2: want to We're going to We're going to keep doing
Speaker 2: it because they are not one of us, essentially, And
Speaker 2: this is that conversation we've had repeatedly where history repeats itself,
Speaker 2: and maybe because when it comes to South Korea because
Speaker 2: we've seen them as kind of a monolithe of one,
Speaker 2: one specific group of people that haven't had too much
Speaker 2: diversity up until recently, and they want more diversity because
Speaker 2: they want that money, but they don't want to change
Speaker 2: their own backwards ideas. And again, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna offend so much to the South Korean people and
Speaker 2: communities and to my Asian peoples. I'm not saying this
Speaker 2: is everyone. I am not saying that every South Korean
Speaker 2: person is like this. I'm not saying every Asian person
Speaker 2: is like this. Obviously I would hope that because as
Speaker 2: a South Korean person myself, that would be awful.
Speaker 3: But we can't deny this does exist.
Speaker 2: So I'm talking about it as a whole in general,
Speaker 2: as in, like, this is happening there, we have to
Speaker 2: acknowledge it happening.
Speaker 3: We can't look at one thing and neglect the other side.
Speaker 2: Because what it comes down to is the lack of intersectionality,
Speaker 2: which has been a lesson that we have learned repeatedly,
Speaker 2: and knowing that this is important for any movement, for
Speaker 2: any type of equality or equity to happen, intersectionality has
Speaker 2: to be in this conversation. This is why so many
Speaker 2: things have failed within our own system in the US.
Speaker 3: We know this.
Speaker 2: We know that when we were talking about the rights
Speaker 2: to vote, women's rights to vote, they did not give
Speaker 2: about people of color, specifically about black women. And to
Speaker 2: this day it's still that conversation when it comes to
Speaker 2: equitability and who gets what and why, there's a hierarchy
Speaker 2: within feminism and within women's ranking or within those people
Speaker 2: who are marginalized. So I say that as an overall
Speaker 2: caveat to know not all South Korean people feel this way,
Speaker 2: as in fact, the people that I have been looking
Speaker 2: at or watching or seeing TikTok creators who are South
Speaker 2: Korean are in the same conversation as I am.
Speaker 3: I'm in.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've got a good ranking of people
Speaker 2: who are like, Okay, great, these are my people. My
Speaker 2: FYP is working for me. Wonderful in that we think
Speaker 2: that this conversation to be had, this idealized version of
Speaker 2: the four P movement, is wonderful in that like, yes,
Speaker 2: we want to have a call to equality and to
Speaker 2: build a better system for not only women, but every
Speaker 2: marginalized person ever, and that this is part of the change.
Speaker 2: So it's interesting to see and have this conversation about
Speaker 2: what this looks like because again, like there's that small
Speaker 2: group of people that came through and was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: we want rights, but we need to start with only us.
Speaker 2: It's kind of that that's not gonna work for you, boo.
Speaker 2: It's gonna kill this movement. It's gonna kill it in
Speaker 2: every way. But if we can do a sustainable level
Speaker 2: of growth in understanding that, this is a good, great start,
Speaker 2: but now you need to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 2: And that's again that whole like conversation when it comes
Speaker 2: to movements like the Fourbe movement. For those who are
Speaker 2: talking about and celebrating it, there's parts of a week. Again,
Speaker 2: I think it's great to celebrate. I'm like, yes, stick
Speaker 2: it to the man literally, but but we have to
Speaker 2: look into what is behind the scenes and yeah, where
Speaker 2: it's coming from, and what they think it is their
Speaker 2: change impacting that community. And from what I gather, obviously
Speaker 2: the birth rates are not great and the Korean government
Speaker 2: isn't panic I've seen recently.
Speaker 3: Again my TikTok feed.
Speaker 2: Is hilarious, but a lot of Korean celebrities specifically men
Speaker 2: trying to encourage people to have babies, like as a
Speaker 2: side note, as if like you know, when you have
Speaker 2: a go like a movie like go Dogs, or like
Speaker 2: when you like are a fan of something, you just
Speaker 2: run in there the braves or something like randomly move on.
Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying celebrities and have children, Like
Speaker 2: it's like, wow, they're really desperate in this conversation and
Speaker 2: trying to get like people to have more and more children.
Speaker 2: Of course, the bigger conversation about like who is providing
Speaker 2: what and what is being said, and we talked about
Speaker 2: this again with the birth rate episode, that they're just
Speaker 2: putting small band aids and not looking at the bigger picture,
Speaker 2: which is a fault for both sides.
Speaker 3: And when I say both sides, for those who.
Speaker 2: In the government who are like, oh, women are the problem,
Speaker 2: but you know here you go, let.
Speaker 3: Me help you with daycare. That's it.
Speaker 2: As where feminists are like, all right, we're gonna stop
Speaker 2: having children, We're gonna stop getting with men.
Speaker 3: And I do know one.
Speaker 2: Specific founder of this movement or at least like a
Speaker 2: spokesperson for the movements like just you know, merry women.
Speaker 3: But it's like, yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 2: That makes sense again, but they leave out so many
Speaker 2: more people and so many others, And again knowing that
Speaker 2: movements like this radical movements like this, and I use
Speaker 2: the word radical, which it feels like a double edged
Speaker 2: sword because it's used as a negative in so many
Speaker 2: ways too. Because when I saw radical feminists, it didn't
Speaker 2: hit me in my thought process of being like, oh,
Speaker 2: there turfs, even though that's in the name right in
Speaker 2: my ideals when it came to South Korea, because feminism
Speaker 2: was so not new necessarily but becoming kind of growing
Speaker 2: in the last ten years and has fluctuated much like
Speaker 2: everywhere else that I was hoping that I don't know,
Speaker 2: like it didn't include turfs.
Speaker 3: But I should have known better because.
Speaker 2: We also know that the queer community in places like
Speaker 2: South Korea are not widely accepted. It's still taboo. Is
Speaker 2: still one of those things that you should be a secret.
Speaker 2: They're not gonna outright like crucify you. I guess it's
Speaker 2: a better way to say, although I'm not necessarily true
Speaker 2: that they do. They people get are in violent situations
Speaker 2: and get a used and are taking advantage by the
Speaker 2: system because they're queer, but.
Speaker 3: Knowing that they are just like, shit, no, it's not
Speaker 3: that bad here.
Speaker 2: It's kind of the same thing where they say, no, no,
Speaker 2: there's no racism in South Korea.
Speaker 3: What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, and then you're like, no, you are
Speaker 2: appropriating and then essentially just stealing content or stealing things
Speaker 2: from the black community of the US because you like
Speaker 2: it so much, but you don't want to give credit
Speaker 2: and you want to make.
Speaker 3: Money like you're stealing.
Speaker 2: But that's you don't think that's racism, which is an
Speaker 2: odd flex just pretending like it doesn't exist, like yeah, no,
Speaker 2: it's still it still does you're being racist. Or when
Speaker 2: you say you don't you don't know about black people,
Speaker 2: and then you do a really bad stereotypes of what
Speaker 2: you think because you saw it from a racist film
Speaker 2: in the US. From the US, it's just so many
Speaker 2: double edged swords. But just because you pretend like it
Speaker 2: doesn't exist there, or they don't talk about it as
Speaker 2: as much as there, that it doesn't exist, then that's
Speaker 2: a problem. And that's kind of that level of what
Speaker 2: I've seen within that four Be movement, which again, according
Speaker 2: to many, many many, is not that big it's again,
Speaker 2: I think it's growing more popular internationally than it is
Speaker 2: anywhere else. And you know, and because many of those
Speaker 2: who understand not to appropriate, they leave the original term
Speaker 2: as is. Although I want to say, take off your
Speaker 2: corset was a movement that was essentially like westernized with
Speaker 2: the whole corsets uh binding women, and that was a
Speaker 2: movement essentially similar to that burning the bra all those
Speaker 2: to the flour bee movements.
Speaker 3: So it's something to remember.
Speaker 2: But I'm saying all this because I think it's important
Speaker 2: that we look at every aspect, because if we ignore
Speaker 2: the bad, then we allow for history to repeat itself
Speaker 2: where it's like we eat our own essentially, and that's
Speaker 2: going to be a problem, and I don't want to
Speaker 2: see that happen. I would love again for equality in
Speaker 2: itself and equity in itself to come through, but also
Speaker 2: to remember who we're fighting for, and it's not just
Speaker 2: us as individuals or our own small community.
Speaker 3: And I'll say, I say small and very like.
Speaker 2: You know, our very niche community as opposed to realizing
Speaker 2: the bigger picture.
Speaker 3: Once again, Yes, yes.
Speaker 1: It's important to talk about this stuff.
Speaker 2: I'll just bring all the bad. I'm like I'm the
Speaker 2: I am again the sad sack Sam over here. You're
Speaker 2: welsome And for those of you who may because I
Speaker 2: think I've gaining a little few more Korean listeners and
Speaker 2: I'm loving that.
Speaker 3: Hello, Hi, if you.
Speaker 2: Want to tell us about if you want to send
Speaker 2: us some more information, we would love that. Obviously we
Speaker 2: are very us centered. I was had a hard time
Speaker 2: finding anything outside of for be movement yay, so we
Speaker 2: would love to know the ends and outs what you think.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely well listeners. If you would like to contact
Speaker 1: us about that, you can. You can email U at
Speaker 1: Stephanie and mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on
Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok at stuff Whenever told you. We have
Speaker 1: a tea public store, and we have a book you
Speaker 1: can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always too,
Speaker 1: our super producer Christina, our executive producer My and our
Speaker 1: contruder Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for listening
Speaker 1: Stuff I Never told you. Ins direction of I Heart Radio.
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