Frank: You're listening to A Very Spatial Podcast, episode 735, April 7th, 2024.
Jesse: Hello, welcome to A VerySpatial Podcast.
I'm Jesse.
Sue: I'm Sue.
Barb: I'm Barb.
Frank: And this is Frank.
Jesse: And this week we're going to be talking about some
stuff, but first, some news.
Barb: Researchers from the University of Bonsaro, Munich have been able
to create a height map for a 3D city using just one single radar image.
This is something that they plan to use for quick disaster response and planning.
It's still not perfect, but it is a way to quickly respond to
humanitarian aid in the future.
Sue: I think this is, you know, creating 3d maps and
recognizing how valuable they are.
But the gold standard using LIDAR is really expensive
and not everybody can do it.
So this particular imagery used a SAR data.
So synthetic aperture radar data and potentially this means.
A way to do some of these projects without having to always
go in for the expensive LIDAR.
So a lot of places can't, can't actually afford that.
So I think it's really interesting.
Frank: Yeah, the cool thing is it happens very quickly, which is as they note for
emergency response, you can use a SAR captured image that had been captured
in the last day, week, month, whatever it may be to quickly get something
developed because they're basically leveraging AI machine learning to do
it, which is, you know, Really neat.
Barb: So university researchers in the SAHEL region are working with the IAEA.
That's the international atomic energy agency to use isotopes
to start mapping groundwater.
This is pretty cool cause it's going to allow them to get a lot
more information on rivers, lakes, and the underground aquifers.
Sue: And of course with climate change with all kinds of other pressures and
water demand growing this is a huge issue in the Sahel region of Africa.
If you're not sure that this is the area to the southern borders
of the Sahara desert where that environment transitions well, okay.
I can't remember what it transitions into all of a sudden.
Jesse: Well, the northern grasslands that butt up against the I was going
to say uplands, but that's only on the eastern side, so that's my bad.
And actually, it doesn't really impact the uplands as much because of,
orographic lifting and the Never mind.
Sue: Anyway.
my my regional geography left me for a second
Barb: What's really interesting is this is a transboundary partnership, and as
we know, water doesn't have boundaries.
So they're going to be able to build on connecting everyone's data from
previous work into building this.
Frank: I like the fact that you're using isotope hydrology, which just
sounds cool no matter what you're doing.
Jesse: just by putting isotope in front of it.
Frank: I think so.
I think, I think it's like a hydro spanner.
You know, it just, it's cool.
Sounds cooler than it really is.
Jesse: Also, things that people should be mindful of, not necessarily news
items, but for those folks who are in high school going into college, and
those people who are in college, and those people who are in grad school.
The annual Geoint, sorry, specifically USGIF, US Geospatial
Intelligence Foundation.
Scholarships are open and Have been since January, but there do may something
and maybe May 31st, but check the website to make sure it's coming up.
Sue: So, so now it's the time to, if you're going to do
it, really think about it.
If you've not already done so.
Jesse: Yeah.
And we know people who have gotten them.
You you know, it is for the USGIF.
So you think it's GeoINT but they do look at geospatial broadly.
So any way that you're creating new ways of understanding geographic information,
geospatial information, , geospatial intelligence information, any of those
fall under what they're looking for.
So again, it's one of those where it's always better to apply and, you know,
be in the running than if you qualify.
Barb: I was looking to see, cause I think the NASA develop is also
still open or might've just closed.
Jesse: And what is that?
Barb: It is similar in that it is a geospatial internship with NASA.
We know several people that have done that and worked with them.
It's an interdisciplinary program that focuses on earth
science and earth observation.
And it's open to U.
S.
Citizens and non citizens.
Jesse: And of course, if you're interested in REUs, it's too late.
Almost all other deadlines have closed by now.
So keep that in mind for next year and you can look for research
experience for undergraduates.
Frank: So another thing in the news, which is very important to at least
half of VerySpatial, is that researchers are now predicting that in the
United States, the Atlantic hurricane season is going to be pretty bad.
Probably much worse than it normally is.
They're forecasting up to 23 named storms, which is normal,
which is 50 percent above normal.
So normally it's about 14 or so named storms and 11 hurricanes.
That's a lot what's driving this is essentially what everyone knows
about or should know about is sea warming temperatures that are
ridiculously high compared to how they have been in the past and they
just keep getting worse and worse.
That in and of itself is not sufficient to generate this degree of uptick.
You also have low wind shear, which is.
Something that basically destroys storms as they, as they form.
So basically the, the heated seas are going to make them more likely to form.
And then normal wind shear would make them, would make, cut a lot of them
off before they got anything of note.
But since it's low wind shear for various reasons, it's unlikely that
they're going to, you know, the number of those storms that come out.
So
Jesse: Yeah.
Kind of expected this with a La Niña year.
So La Niña years generally have a few more hurricanes.
And so we're kind of waiting to see what happens.
That was Colorado . State's yes, I believe, yes, Colorado state, Colorado
state or Colorado Springs their model, and there'll be a few other ones
that come out in the near future.
But that's.
That's kind of the go to most years does fairly well, and they'll do an update.
As we start getting more into the season in early June, but.
Sue: Yes.
And there are some other factors that, that come into play as well to see.
So one of the ones I always I'm interested to see the, the kind of forecasts and
observations of is the Saharan dust clouds that come across the Atlantic and stuff.
I find that they often throw a wrench in the works, dampen stuff down.
Jesse: Which because of El Nino last year, there should be more dry
conditions and large portions of.
That area, which could potentially lead to more dust, but we don't know.
It depends on the strength of the winds bringing it out.
So without the wind shear, you may not get the lift of the, you
may not get the aeolian activity.
Yeah, lots of things.
We'll be ready though.
We have our, our remote learning plans in place that we must all
file because we, so Jesse and I are faculty at a near coastal university.
We're about 12 miles from the ocean.
So.
Frank: near coastal
Sue: in fact, deal with this.
jesse_1_04-07-2024_110621: And we have close for them.
We have knock on whatever this table is made out of.
We've had some close shaves since we've been here.
There's one in there somewhere, but aftermath flooding was
our biggest, biggest impacts.
And even whenever I was still in North Carolina at my school there,
we, we would close for these as well.
Yes.
So, perhaps the force field will hold.
Why would you, why would you threaten the force field like that?
I gave the appropriate superstitions.
You said maybe, and then you didn't knock after you said that one.
Each statement requires its own set of superstitions.
I will make the appropriate offerings
Frank: Yeah, no group knock.
the podcast.
There's no blanket knock.
You gotta, you know.
Jesse: And that's it for the news.
And this week we have no idea what we're going to talk about.
So we're just going to talk
Frank: Cool.
Jesse: it's, April, you know, if depending on where you are, you just saw March come
in and like in lion out, like a lamb.
We're getting ready to have April showers, bringing us May flowers.
Of course, those of us further South have had flowers for a while now.
Frank: Yeah, we had, we had flowers.
Lion lamb flowers, lion lamb for the last four weeks, five
weeks or something like that.
So it's been very confusing.
And I feel bad for the vegetation because it bloomed 21 days early this year.
And then frost came along and said, nope.
And then there's rain.
And then there was cold.
And then this week it's going to be warm and rainy.
I had nobody.
And then right.
Predicting next week is cold again.
So it's crazy.
Sue: It's hard to see the trend line when you're in it.
Frank: Yeah, it's,
Jesse: Basically, Paxatanti Phil was feeling schizophrenic this year,
Frank: yeah, it's,
Jesse: shadow at least, sorry.
Was shivering.
Frank: yeah, we had snow and Thursday, I think it was Thursday or Friday
was one of those days we had a little bit of snow, which is not unusual.
And I, I know this is not unusual because one of my favorite songs
to listen to whenever it snows is sometimes it snows in April by Prince.
And I, Invariably end up listening that song most years than not, but given the
amount of early bloom that we had, it was a little surprising how much snow we got.
had
not in
Sue: last night in the thirties.
It'll probably be like 70 today, but we are seeing some, and of course the high
stakes weather forecasting of the eclipse viewing is going on now the last minute
as they, they're starting to predict cloudiness and potential rain for some of
the, the parts of the totality corridor.
Jesse: So you guys are what?
90 some percent.
Frank: 90 something.
Yeah.
We're, I mean it's going to be 70 and cloudy tomorrow, so
Sue: Yeah.
Frank: it the effects of it.
I mean, that's a pretty good eclipse.
Jesse: We're only in the 70 some percent totality,
Barb: Yeah.
My glasses came in right?
In time.
They came in yesterday.
Recommended by the space gal, Emily Calendrelli, who's from Morgantown.
That does that show
Sue: I have the welder's goggles thing and I got them for last time.
And so here's where that, the forecast comes into play is that it was broke,
I guess broken cloudy, but over, over us and Conway area, some clouds
came through, dampened the fun.
But if you went further South in South Carolina, they got a nice clear view.
So the clouds do matter.
Jesse: Or if you went a little bit further North and West to North Carolina.
Sue: Was yours cloudy then?
No.
No?
See, you got to see it great, but we, we did, I went out for a while.
I mean, it was still neat because it got dark and everything,
but this was 2017, I think.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, but I felt slightly robbed.
I mean, I had the welder's goggles and everything.
Barb: I didn't know welders goggles would work because I've got mine.
Yeah, they, they,
Jesse: You, you have to have the thickest lenses, the number 14 or whatever.
Yeah.
Scale 14, basically the thickest ones that you can get for them.
Sue: Yes.
So, yeah, literally when you put them on, you can see.
Nothing.
Outside of them.
have to go to the, your position and then put them on.
Frank: having used those for actual welding it's always fun because with
welding, you've got to get, if you're doing stick welding, you have to get
the stick at the right place, but you literally can't see anything and
you're like, I think that's right.
And then it comes on and you go, no, that's wrong.
So
Jesse: Yeah.
Hence the, the folks who learn how to do the lean forward and
have it come down, look, place,
Frank: yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's so it's, it renders you effectively blind until that light hits.
So, well,
Sue: I tried them on in the corridor of our office and there were at least
three people there laughing at me and I had no idea who or where they were
until I removed the goggles of course.
Barb: And this week too, I've had two instances of having to give
people the link to the did you feel it, the USGS for earthquakes.
Cause the one was the earthquake that happened in Ohio, right near the Ohio
West Virginia border that apparently everyone's reporting for Ohio, but no
one's really reporting for West Virginia.
And people are trying to figure out what the, you know, geologic
survey, what does this mean?
And then one that happened in my hometown in New Jersey, right there.
Where I grew up that made the news and sending everyone the
link for, did you feel it?
Which I always appreciate the science communication side of that, that they make
it just very clear on, you know, how to, how to report it and make it fun to find.
I think Australia's is, did it shake or something like that is, is what
they use for you to find theirs.
Jesse: Let's see.
What else is coming up in April?
Tax day.
Frank: Which I haven't done mine yet.
So I'm well aware that there's a deadline looming that I had to
Sue: In the U.
S.
it's tax
Frank: in the U S.
Okay.
Thanks.
Jesse: Yes.
A week from Monday.
Frank: Yeah,
Jesse: In fact, it's possible that most people will not hear
this until well after tax day.
Yes.
So, hope you got it done.
Or file an extension.
Or another country where it's not April 15th.
Frank: mm hmm.
So I have a question that has nothing to do with any of
the things going on in April.
This just recently came up in Subreddit for professors, I think is where was that?
That there was complaints about students not knowing how to use files and
folders and I thought that was a very interesting The number of what I found
interesting about it is the number of professors who presumably use their
phone and their cloud based devices and that sort of thing that similarly
do not use files and folders but don't really take into account that students.
Live there.
Jesse: Never needed to.
Frank: Yeah.
And so it and they're always kind of a gas that students don't know how to do that.
And I actually was a little gas that student that professors were surprised
by this because why would you?
I mean, if you do cloud stuff, you don't have to even it just goes into a magic
cloud space and you don't know where it's located or why or anything like that.
Jesse: I mean, we still say, you know,
create a file to keep things together in the cloud.
And, And, so you kind of think people would organize.
No, mean, they don't generate as much as you would think.
Sue: Yeah.
And, and the, the conversation is even changing, right?
So when I mean, those you'll remember on earlier episodes, years back in
the podcast, where I said, one of the things that shocked me is that people
didn't know what a zip file was.
Right.
So we've well progressed beyond that now to where I don't think
they get, they don't understand even any of that structure in
the sense of files and folders.
Right.
As part of it.
But the fact that there's something stored somewhere.
And it might be on the computer, might not be on the computer, because
now they're shocked if something happens and say a folder gets wiped.
They're like, what do you mean it was on the computer?
Can't I just log into my account and get it back?
No.
that's gone.
You see how that folder says empty now?
Gone.
Jesse: You know how since the first day of class we said make sure to
save it to the D drive because They like to wipe the C drive occasionally.
This is why.
Yes.
And when we say wipe we mean gone, like physically from the, from, from this feed,
those bits are not backed up anywhere,
Frank: Well, you know, it kind of surprised me.
My coworker.
Now he comes from a a strong the position he had before position.
He has now he was a trainer for Microsoft enterprise level things.
So he's, you know, his knowledge base is very strongly attuned
to what Microsoft does.
And he does a lot with SharePoint, for example.
And that's sort of how he approaches a lot of this enterprise level stuff.
So it was interesting to me to watch him Trying to find a piece of
information and he was doing searches based upon what he called the file,
which is completely legitimate.
I'm not suggesting that was weird or anything like that, but I thought, well,
that's kind of interesting because I don't actually pay that much close attention
that when I name files, I pay a lot more attention to where I saved files.
So the way I organize my brain isn't so much that I don't worry that I've
named this project X meeting notes.
I just meeting notes, but it's in project X folder.
So I know that that hierarchy exists and I just got to look in that folder
and it's somewhere in there, I'm going to find a file is descriptive enough
that I know what it's about, you know project plan or whatever it may be.
Whereas.
His more approach was a little bit making sure that his files were holistically
named so he could find them in a search and try to remember what he named things.
And it's, it, neither is wrong.
It's just, it struck me.
Well, that's really interesting.
It's just the way he organizes the way he thinks about it.
It's very different than how I organize, how I think about and
something that struck me because shortly thereafter, I saw that
discussion on the professor's subreddit,
Jesse: which of course for GIS doesn't matter on ArcGIS online, maybe you can
get away with just naming the bits.
But as we know, every project that you save in ArcGIS Pro is going to
have a folder, and if you move that folder, and you don't move every
other folder you reference along with it, then you're going to kill the
relative path.
Now, the problem is, There's also this difference that those people who are
coming from ArcMap, who are used to the not relative path, unless you go
in and specifically chose it, aren't maybe necessarily thinking of ArcGIS
Pro and the relative path mindset.
So it's a different, yeah, but hopefully of course everybody's moved away from
ArcGIS or ArcMap now to ArcGIS Pro.
Or
they have moved to
Frank: narrator, they have not
Sue: yeah, yes, yes, you know, and I think I, although I think for today, like, it's
too much in depth, but this conversation is kind of an interesting tangential
lead into stuff that I've been thinking about a lot more and that is the change
in, in how GIS is being done, right?
And we've talked about it.
It's been happening.
I mean, it changes not just at Esri, but other places.
I think, you know, It is a question for us because we're in the transition, right?
We remember the old times.
A lot of us still do things with the old times, but for those of us in education,
the students that are coming to us don't have any attachment to that world.
And the things that they're seeing, right, the things they're used to
working with are in fact different.
And so your options are to go back and kind of backfill in some of
the older things that we take for granted, like explaining, okay, so
you're working on a desktop computer.
These are the things that must happen for you to be successful.
Versus do we then evolve and say, well increasingly things
are being done over the web.
They're being done with these types of things, remote
processes, all this kind of stuff.
And so I find myself struggling with, with the, which way to go with this.
I do some of each, but You know, again, it's a broader question
that I keep wrestling with.
And I don't know if I want to give it the term modern GIS or whatever, but,
but I do think that the question is how much do I try to go back and say, look,
this is how you, this is how you do these other things, because this works this
way, but there's less and less chance.
You're going to see this out in the working world.
Maybe it's because I'm not as connected to the working world
anymore to know how many people out there actually making this work.
this transition themselves are coming into it new and, and using tools that aren't
what we would consider traditional GIS.
Barb: actually, what I'm finding is that a lot of my students are, are
already working a lot of them and they are seeing themselves as the, the
professionals that are bringing that transition in because the, you know,
it's the organizations they're in aren't necessarily, you know, even though you
have to make that transition, there are a lot of people that still are
thinking that they, you know, Don't have to work and find a way around it.
jesse_1_04-07-2024_110621: Around what?
Barb: The switch over to the cloud and, and ARC Pro future,
future to the modern era,
Frank: the inevitable movement of technology and time that they're immune
to it, that's and, and what I'm finding from our professional organization
side of things is I'm finding a lot of people who are, they do a thing.
And the thing works.
So then I keep doing the thing that works, which is fine.
If you're, you know, doing woodworking or something like that.
But when it comes to technology like this, this stuff is evolving
whether you want it to or not.
And 1 of the things that I find a little frustrating about this is The organ,
the companies mostly have a vision that they're pushing that I'm not sure
they've entirely tested completely.
And they're kind of like, well, it's just, I don't mean my test.
Is it does it work?
Not work as in, is this a approach that makes a lot of sense?
And they're saying, we're going to do it this way.
And then, you know, People go, I don't understand how to get my brain
around that, to do it that way.
And I think it's, we're, we're doing a lot of live live testing
of concepts in, in not just GIS, but more broadly in technology now.
Jesse: I think this is, we've gone from a very small group of
people who are learning and using technologies to early, early days.
And, you know, there are people who, including ourselves some of
us that were still doing, you know, command line, ArcGIS, seven point,
whatever, whenever we started.
And so we went through ArcView.
We went through Arc MapObjects, not ArcMapObject, just MapObjects.
We went through ArcMap and its various iterations.
And now we're in ArcGIS Pro, but The thing is, is that there are a lot
of people who aren't those people.
And so I think that's the difference now is that we have this core
that was new and heavily into the early changes in the industry.
And keep in mind at that point, the industry technically was
already 30 or more years old.
Whenever we're talking about the late nineties and so now we have
this broad breadth of people who have entered at different points.
And so there are people who have been in the profession and are getting ready
to retire that didn't deal with things that I've dealt with whenever I started.
Frank: Well, yeah, I think that's, that's true.
I don't know.
I, I don't know.
I don't disagree with you at all.
You're absolutely right about that.
But I just find it a little bizarre.
And admittedly, I'm coming from a point of view of being a heavy technologist,
you know, show me the latest whiz bang thing and I want to play with it.
So it is a biased point of view, but I am very surprised still to
this day, the number of people who look at this stuff as a static tool.
Jesse: No, I agree.
Frank: Considering how much it's changed just since we started the podcast,
which is, you know, a relatively short period of time in in most careers.
So I find that a little, little bizarre.
You know, that that you don't sort of accept as a norm of the role that.
You're going to have to do it different in five years, whatever it is you're doing.
And I'm also impressed.
I'm very impressed actually with the sheer number of people I see that
don't do it different in five years that are able to just keep doing it.
I'm like, that's amazing that you can keep doing that.
And it works for you, which is both a Testament to the
resiliency of the technology and also the resiliency to change.
Jesse: Yeah.
I mean, we have so many different takes on it at this point that it's just, we are
all baffled and at the same time, we're all confused why other people are baffled.
Barb: I was going to say, I just got back from an Open Education Resource
Conference, where both the state and the national groups involved with
open education were talking about it.
And one of the things I noticed was and highly appreciative of, is that
for me, a lot of what I'm doing and working with finding and creating
It's, it's not brand new to me.
It's not something that I have to think is this worthwhile doing because
the geospatial community has been very good because of these changes.
I think about doing a lot of open education and discussion and help.
I mean, I know I can go to YouTube.
I can go to videos.
I can go to GitHub.
I can go to Substack.
There's so many places now, but they've always been where the
community has been willing to basically step people through these changes.
So that you can adapt quicker.
I know I can go somewhere and no one's going to make me feel that, you
know, I'm dumb for looking and asking.
Cause I'm going to ask a whole lot of questions yeah, the majority of people,
it's a very, I said, and I had to say, I said, you know, this we've been in
this, you know, in the open education for professionals and students for, you
know, the community a long time, it's a very, you know, very open community.
So I think that is also what lends itself to being able to adapt
and change is finding resources that you don't have to pay for.
. Sue: Well, and I think that very mindset, right, is also and I'm going to try
to, in my mind, it's taking me a second to kind of connect it back to when I'm
thinking about some of these transitions, right, is, is that very mindset, right?
That there's all these resources, there's all these things out there.
I can go get it.
Also affects kind of or goes hand in hand with the, the changeover in mindset.
Right?
So one of the things that I also see is happening is at least when
we first encountered GIS, right.
And geospatial, it was again, it's just, he was saying a
smaller, much smaller community.
Right.
And the way that you passed on what you knew was among
your Your select group, right?
And I don't mean select I'm trying not to mean that in a bad way.
It just means it's a smaller group of people.
And so the knowledge got passed on.
The core of what you did was at a physical computer, right?
The web part of it came later and it was, you know, it was kind of a rough, kind of
rough transition into some of that stuff.
And so there was very much ownership and, and you go through your whole career by
doing it the same way because it worked and you were trained by someone else.
how to do it, whether you got that in formal education
classes or training on the job.
And so that sense, right, that everything I, and, and that I think, and, and,
you know, Frank, you can correct me on this as, as somebody who's also,
you know, been in technology even longer than me or, you know, Jesse.
And Just that notion that where are my files?
I need to know where my data is.
I need to know where my results are, right?
I have an ownership on that.
I don't feel comfortable unless I can backtrack and do
those types of things, right?
That has evolved as we've seen connections and cloud, the rise of cloud and all that.
And And so again, I think the next generation down doesn't really have
necessarily that attachment, right?
Where I freak out, like, I don't know, where's my floppy disk.
Yes.
Right.
I don't know where the data was that created this result layer.
So I have to have that, or I don't really trust it.
But as we change to other things, right, there's less ownership by the, the, like,
you know, some users now don't even ask where to go or where'd I get that layer.
They just pull in anything.
And, you know, we try to educate about things like metadata and all that sort
of stuff, but it doesn't resonate.
Right.
And like it did, I don't think and this is just getting my, my experience with it,
trying to explain why this is important.
I mean, they'll, you know, there'll be an understanding, Oh, obviously
if I create a data layer after 2011, it will have South Sudan on it.
And prior to that, it won't, right.
Because it wasn't an independent country, you know, something obvious like that,
that there will be an understanding of why these types of things matter.
And again, I'm just pulling out one tiny example of this whole change,
but I think that some of it too, in that evolution, right, is the
notion of, , something we've talked about for the entire podcast, right?
Which is, you know, how this synthesizing and reworking and everything of sources
of, of perspectives and stuff that is allowed by sharing everything, you
know, just goes all the way through.
The GIS world the geospatial world as well.
Frank: I recently got made fun of for hitting save.
It
Sue: Hey, isn't that like a small microcosm example of this, right?
Frank: Yeah.
was, and in fairness, we were doing, you know, working on a Word
document online and it just saves.
It just does, it just does.
It's takes care of that.
And I don't have to hit the save button, but I can't not hit the save button.
I've learned that about myself.
I've evolved to the point where no, I have to hit the save button that way.
I know, I know it got saved,
Jesse: I don't know how, completely off topic, but our IT has found a way to
turn off the auto save feature in Word.
And all of the Office.
Frank: but yes, we have the exact opposite.
It's always saving in, in, real time, which, you know,
Jesse: because
versioning.
So they've also basically found a way to locally.
So if you're doing it in the cloud, yeah, your version, you're good.
If you're doing it locally, it's not doing versioning the same way
because it's not actively saving.
Frank: yeah.
And so versioning is the thing that I like having an active hand in.
So.
I will remember.
Oh, yeah.
Version 17.
I was going on this tangent.
So I need to go back to version 16.
And so I like positive stops that I understand what the
degrees of change might be.
Whereas this.
This constant saving thing confuses me because what will happen is, is
that as an example, as I may do, I may rework a paragraph and then the
next paragraph, punch it up a little bit, and then go back to the paragraph
before that other paragraph and say, Oh, I got to make some word changes.
And then I realized, Oh, third paragraph I edited on is all wrong.
I need to delete it.
So I need to, or I need to keep pieces of it.
You know, so if I hit starting control Z, I end up undoing things.
That I didn't want to undo in the, in this need to get to the thing that
I do want to undo, you know, it's sort of, it, I personally find it
easier to control that versioning, but you don't do that in the cloud.
And it's very hard for me to switch to that mindset.
Jesse: can, but you have the, but you have then the backup
because versioning I want is for the backup, not for the
change in ideas that I agree.
You created a copy of
that.
I want something where.
If I accidentally do something to a portion of the document I didn't mean
to, and I close it and come back to it, which means that it's no longer in the
undo list, then I can go back to the version and open up that old version
where this, and this could be just like you know, a one page letter, it
doesn't need to be a multi page document where versioning really does, you know,
having different different copies are important, just being able to Say, oh,
wait, the sentence I had in here is gone.
It was really great sentence.
How do I get back to that now?
Versioning allows me to do that.
Yeah, I like that too.
But also I, I think I'm in Frank's camp, right?
I like active.
So that's why on, on my, on the game console for me.
Yes.
But on gaming console, while there's 15 saves of the same game, because now I'm,
I see it saving, but I want my control.
I want to know what happens.
So I want to actively see the event happening.
Well, I want to know that I can go back to this if I, you know, spam
myself in the next iteration, I can go back a couple of saves and fix it.
Sue: Yes, but, but that is, I think, but, but there's a whole group
that doesn't even see that as like something to take into account.
And that, that is a very different mindset.
Frank: yeah.
I don't disagree.
I like having both, but because of the degree of activeness, it's, it's
harder for me to trust the automatic thing other than the very last version.
Like, let me go back to the very, you know, the very last.
It's harder for me to understand what has changed in the versioning
going back to some extent.
So that that's where, you know, if I have the positive stops,
I know exactly what's going on.
And that's just easier for me to wrap my brain around per se.
Plus I hate hitting control Z 87 times in a row to get back to, you know, I
have, I have a bad habit of writing.
For example, I'll write a sentence and I'll delete part of it and then I'll.
Write some more and then I'll delete the bit that I wrote, you know, I'm
completely rewriting it as I go.
And I'll end up with like 19 versions of one sentence.
And then I realized, oh, that whole sentence is garbage.
So I need to go back to before I started, you know, that type of thing.
So it makes it a little harder for me to hit.
Anyway, I understand both are useful and I want both, but at the same time, I'm
running into in the work environment, the version, the versioning that I'm used to,
where I have my own positive stops is.
lesser used than just trusting the online versioning thing.
And that's hard for me to use both using only one and not the other.
Jesse: So, yeah, there's a conversation for the day, and hopefully you
Frank: Found something useful
Jesse: stuck
to this point.
Well, yeah,
Sue: I think we are going to circle back around to maybe another more specific
conversation about evolving GIS.
Because I think that GIS geospatial because it does have
a lot more implications to it.
Jesse: You should head on and find out about some events in the events corner.
First up, State of the Map 2024 will be taking place September
6th to the 8th in Nairobi, Kenya.
A call for the academic track is due May 10th.
Barb: AGILE 2024, which is the Association of Geographic Information Laboratories in
Europe, is holding its annual conference focused on geographic information
science for a sustainable future in Glasgow, UK, June 4th through 7th.
And Geography 2050 is taking place November 22nd to
the 24th in New York City.
Sue: The city's so nice they named it twice.
Frank: That's right.
Jesse: If you'd like us to add your event to the podcast, send us an
email to podcasts at variouspacial.
com.
Sue: If you'd like to reach us individually, I can be
reached at Sue@veryspatial.
com.
Barb: I'm Barb at VerySpatial.
com.
Frank: And you can reach me at Frank at VerySpatial.
com.
Jesse: I'm available at Jesse@veryspatial.
com.
And of course you can find all of our contact information over at veryspatial.
com slash contacts.
Frank: As always,
Barb: we're the folks from Very Spatial.
Jesse: Thanks for listening.
Sue: We'll see you in a couple of weeks.