Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Fantasy Bros. NFL Draft Show.
Speaker 2: I'm your host Derek Brown and with me as always
Speaker 2: the Minnesota Madman himself, thor n Ice stream And on
Speaker 2: today's show, we are gonna dive deep into the tight
Speaker 2: end class.
Speaker 1: We're gonna wade.
Speaker 2: Into the waters of these options that can block and
Speaker 2: not only perform as receivers or Dude, we kind of
Speaker 2: buried this.
Speaker 1: I mean we've we've.
Speaker 2: Had shows of John Middlecoff, We've talked quarterbacks, we've talked
Speaker 2: running backs, we've talked wide receivers, and now we're at
Speaker 2: the tight ends, baby, so we get to shits love
Speaker 2: them on brock Bowers today.
Speaker 3: Man, you hyped, I'm very hyped. Yeah.
Speaker 4: You know, we tease this a little bit during the
Speaker 4: middle Coff episode and during that and if people haven't
Speaker 4: haven't listened to that yet, please go back and listen
Speaker 4: to it. We had a great hour with John, but
Speaker 4: we started talking about some of these tight ends and
Speaker 4: tease that we are gonna be.
Speaker 3: Doing this next week.
Speaker 4: This is the week and we are about to deep
Speaker 4: dive that tight end class and very excited to do.
Speaker 2: It, absolutely man, and look at per usual. So we're
Speaker 2: gonna dive through the top ten of this class per
Speaker 2: NFL Mock Draft Data dot Com. So starting this off, baby,
Speaker 2: the top well, I'll put it this way. The bottom
Speaker 2: four of this top ten are I'm not gonna say
Speaker 2: they're polarizing, but I think they have various levels of
Speaker 2: fantasy utilities. Some of these guys stand out, and I
Speaker 2: don't want to take too much time because the top
Speaker 2: six of this class is really the meat and potatoes,
Speaker 2: or if people are looking for the guys that can
Speaker 2: really ascend to being a second or maybe third option
Speaker 2: and a passing attack, those are the guys we really
Speaker 2: want to kind of stretch our legs on. So we're
Speaker 2: gonna bring up this top ten of this class, run
Speaker 2: through tight end seven through ten, and kind of talk
Speaker 2: about really quickly where we have.
Speaker 1: Them ranked and what we see for them in the NFL.
Speaker 2: So tight End ten starting this off, Jared Wiley out
Speaker 2: of TCU Tighten nine per consensus is jaheem Bell. Tight
Speaker 2: End eight is the blocking maestro himself. Aj Barner out
Speaker 2: of Michigan. Tight End seven is Daln Hulker out of
Speaker 2: the four guys, who do you think has to be
Speaker 2: talked about here?
Speaker 3: Dylan Holker.
Speaker 4: I think for me on my rankings, he is the
Speaker 4: guy that is outside those six You know that you
Speaker 4: just brought up as being the really interesting ones in
Speaker 4: this tight end class, But I think Holker, outside of
Speaker 4: that is the one that fantasy guys need to keep
Speaker 4: an eye on. He's headed for an h back role
Speaker 4: in the NFL. Six foot three and a half two
Speaker 4: forty one six point zero seven raz I know that
Speaker 4: he has the skill that is very apparent on his tape.
Speaker 4: The question becomes does he have the physical ability to
Speaker 4: become moving the needle as a pass catcher in the NFL,
Speaker 4: which is what we would care about from a fantasy perspective.
Speaker 4: He is not explosive, He's slug is changing directions, and
Speaker 4: he needs some space to build up to his top speed.
Speaker 3: He's also one of the class's oldest players, so that's
Speaker 3: that's the downside. The upside is the skill part. I
Speaker 3: was talking about.
Speaker 4: Extremely skilled, specifically for our purposes, catching them. That is
Speaker 4: the thing that he does the best. He attacks it
Speaker 4: at its earliest point. He fluidly transitions into running. He's
Speaker 4: one of those guys he'll catch it, doesn't lose momentum.
Speaker 4: When he's on the move or when he makes himself
Speaker 4: available to the quarterback in zone, just quickly transitions to
Speaker 4: being the runner and he starts breaking tackles. That so,
Speaker 4: even you know, with the lack of quote unquote lack
Speaker 4: of athleticism, he's a tackle breaker. He also will catch
Speaker 4: the ball in within a crowd, very very good concentration.
Speaker 4: Last year ten contested catches for Hulker. That was two
Speaker 4: more than any tight end in this draft class. He's
Speaker 4: not a bursty mover, but he is an efficient one.
Speaker 4: He understands efficiency of footwork. For instance, he does the
Speaker 4: best with what he has. His routes lack snap in pizazz,
Speaker 4: but he augments that with tempo changes, upper body deeks.
Speaker 4: You know, it reminded me a little bit of watching
Speaker 4: from the receiver class Ricky Piersaw and all the stuff
Speaker 4: that he does changing tempos and then deaking the hell
Speaker 4: he'll do head deeks.
Speaker 3: He will, he will deak his shoulders and then he'll
Speaker 3: go the other way.
Speaker 4: Just anything he can do to sort of set the
Speaker 4: defender up to think he's going a different way than
Speaker 4: he's actually going. And then the clever footwork that is
Speaker 4: how Holker buys separation. And while he's small, there is
Speaker 4: a quirk about his physical dimensions that I think needs
Speaker 4: to get talked about a little bit more with regards
Speaker 4: to the receiving skill. Again the kids only sixty three
Speaker 4: and a half two forty one, and again, you know,
Speaker 4: not super athletic, but he has very very long arms, especially.
Speaker 3: For someone who is that size.
Speaker 4: In fact, he has the longest arms of any of
Speaker 4: my tight ends, ranked in the top fifteen on my board.
Speaker 4: And you know, you're talking about some big dudes there, right,
Speaker 4: I mean, like we're I mean including Brevin span Ford,
Speaker 4: the six almost seven, two hundred and sixty pound Guy
Speaker 4: Barner six foot six, Tip Raymond, you know, sixty four
Speaker 4: and a half two seventy one, Wiley six to six.
Speaker 4: He has longer arms than all of them, which gives
Speaker 4: him a bigger catch radius, which plays up Hulker's greatest
Speaker 4: strength again, those ball skills. He has really really good
Speaker 4: hands and he's fluid at that catch point. So between
Speaker 4: having that that, you know, the longer than he has
Speaker 4: like a catch ratius of an octopus.
Speaker 3: So he and he's gonna catch the.
Speaker 4: Ball, gonna transition into a runner where he is very
Speaker 4: effective and I think as a blocker he's at least
Speaker 4: a gnat like and he's also he's good space blocking.
Speaker 4: Any guy who is around his physical dimensions are lower,
Speaker 4: he's going to get them blocked for you. He is
Speaker 4: obviously not an inline guy. He would get ragged all
Speaker 4: by power edges in the NFL. That is why he
Speaker 4: has to be the age back guy. But for an
Speaker 4: offense that uses twelve personnel and then and then throws
Speaker 4: to that age back guy likes to shift that dude
Speaker 4: a round and then and then get him involved in
Speaker 4: the routes.
Speaker 3: I think Hulker could play at that and.
Speaker 4: I think he is skilled enough where he could play
Speaker 4: early on as a pass catcher in the NFL despite
Speaker 4: his physical limitation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that you brought up the physical limitations
Speaker 2: and his dimensions. I mean, the dude has thirty three
Speaker 2: and five eighths inch arms. That's seventy seven percentile that's
Speaker 2: like talking about Just to put that in context for people,
Speaker 2: he has the arm length of an NFL guard, almost
Speaker 2: to the extension of being an NFL tackle.
Speaker 1: That's how long this dude's arms are.
Speaker 2: So that really shows up as far as like on
Speaker 2: his film when he's catching balls outside of his frame
Speaker 2: and the catch radius itself. Now, I'll push back a
Speaker 2: little bit because I did find this interesting when I
Speaker 2: was watching him yesterday in preparation for this show. He
Speaker 2: is not an athletic freak by any stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 2: I mean that shows up on a twenty fourth percentile
Speaker 2: ten yard split, but where you do see as an
Speaker 2: underneath weapon, Like, I don't think he's ever gonna be
Speaker 2: a massive YAC weapon. I don't ever think he's gonna
Speaker 2: be a guy that we're asking to or an NFL
Speaker 2: team is asking to stretch the seam. But can he
Speaker 2: operate as an underneath weapon on out screens versus his
Speaker 2: own Because while most of his testing metrics weren't fantastic,
Speaker 2: he did log a ninety fourth percentile three cone and
Speaker 2: an eighty third percentile twenty yard shuttle, So there is
Speaker 2: some short area quicks there to work with at his
Speaker 2: size that would allow him to be deployed in that way.
Speaker 2: But again, is he going to be a guy that's
Speaker 2: generating a ton of mistackles forced? No, is he going
Speaker 2: to generate a ton of yac.
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Is he going to stretch the seam. Probably not. If
Speaker 2: he does that, I promise you a linebacker or a
Speaker 2: nickel is going to be in his back pocket. That's
Speaker 2: a guaranteed. But is a guy like look, he has
Speaker 2: a strong set of hands man, so like I think
Speaker 2: he's probably like where do you think he goes in
Speaker 2: the NFL draft? Or probably what brown five? I'm guessing
Speaker 2: I was going to toss up five?
Speaker 4: And if he already to the point about that, you
Speaker 4: know the three con in the shut out. The thing
Speaker 4: that I saw about his routes where you know, with
Speaker 4: the change of direction, that perhaps it becomes just a
Speaker 4: thing more that he needs to work on as opposed
Speaker 4: to something he's not capable of. I see at the
Speaker 4: route break, those kind of routes that you're talking about.
Speaker 4: I see more rounded route breaks from him, and perhaps
Speaker 4: that isn't you know. I was talking about the overall
Speaker 4: efficiency of his movement into routes off the line getting
Speaker 4: into it like that.
Speaker 3: But that's one.
Speaker 4: Where if you do have that change of direction, we
Speaker 4: need at that moment for it to start getting precise
Speaker 4: and then break that thing off flat.
Speaker 3: We want the clean corners like origami.
Speaker 4: We don't want that rounded stuff anymore, because that's one
Speaker 4: thing we're in the NFL.
Speaker 3: You were able to get separation despite that. In the MWC.
Speaker 4: This is one area where all of a sudden, that
Speaker 4: could start going away if he doesn't improve on that.
Speaker 3: But it's a great context to a point.
Speaker 2: No, I definitely agree, man, you do not see explosiveness
Speaker 2: in and out of his routes. And I adamantly agree.
Speaker 2: The other guy out of this group that I want
Speaker 2: to highlight here is Jeem Bill and I've seen a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff out on social media thor like I've
Speaker 2: talked about him.
Speaker 1: We talked about him before.
Speaker 2: We went to Senior Bowl and I said, look to
Speaker 2: you and I were on a phone call and I said,
Speaker 2: Jahem Bell is really interesting man. Like his analytical profile
Speaker 2: jumps off the freaking page in two of the last
Speaker 2: three seasons. This is a guy who has finished top
Speaker 2: twenty and what I care about as far as receiving
Speaker 2: utility thirteenth in yards per out run last year eighteenth
Speaker 2: and PF for receiving grade twenty twenty one, he was
Speaker 2: top ten in both.
Speaker 1: Of those metrics.
Speaker 2: You look over the last three years, minimum of twenty
Speaker 2: targets he is ranked inside the top twelve in every
Speaker 2: single season in yak per reception and mistackles forced. So
Speaker 2: there is a skill set that could translate to the NFL.
Speaker 2: My question at his size and dimensions, because I'll give
Speaker 2: this Jahem Bell's agent and the people representing him and
Speaker 2: stuff like have done a pretty good job of kind
Speaker 2: of like the variants and where his measurements have been.
Speaker 2: Has he been consistently weighing in and like somewhere in
Speaker 2: the two forty range. Yes, his height is where I've
Speaker 2: got questions. Man Senior Bowl, he measured in at six '
Speaker 2: one and some change, like almost six to two, but
Speaker 2: not he goes with the combine and apparently he grew
Speaker 2: a few inches, well not inches, but partially like he
Speaker 2: he measured in at six to two.
Speaker 1: The reason I bring.
Speaker 2: This up, dude, is because if you look back over
Speaker 2: years and years and years of the NFL asking a
Speaker 2: guy at this at these dimensions to be a standout
Speaker 2: receiving option, you're asking him to be an outlier from
Speaker 2: the word go, and can he do that? Because he
Speaker 2: got used in the slot, he got used out wide,
Speaker 2: he can run routes. He's a tough guy to bring
Speaker 2: down in the open field, so there is receiving utility
Speaker 2: to like there. But look at this, lord, let me
Speaker 2: just toss this satu man at since nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 2: all tight ends that are six foot two or shorter
Speaker 2: and way anything south of two hundred and sixty pounds. Okay,
Speaker 2: the number of guys that have finished their career with
Speaker 2: at least ten PPR points per game. Looking at this
Speaker 2: from a fantasy angle and talking about what because that's
Speaker 2: what he's being talked about, him and the fantasy lens
Speaker 2: and his receiving upside. The only four guys to finish
Speaker 2: their career with at least ten point seven or higher
Speaker 2: PPR points per game are Aaron Hernandez Carol Dale who
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty six, nobody's gonna know who that name is,
Speaker 2: Jordan Reed, and Shannon Sharp.
Speaker 1: So it's you're.
Speaker 2: Asking Jaheim Bell if he hits at the NFL, to
Speaker 2: be somewhat of a unicorn, and I don't know if
Speaker 2: he can do that. That's asking a lot. So I'm
Speaker 2: not telling people that he cannot do it. I'm also
Speaker 2: not telling people that he doesn't have a lot of
Speaker 2: things in his analytical profile and the physical testing to like,
Speaker 2: but still we have to contextualize as a player at
Speaker 2: his size playing tight end. If he hits, could it
Speaker 2: be magnificent. Possibly, But we're talking about a span since
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six, four guys hit that. Four guys, so
Speaker 2: it's not like we have a huge sample to work with.
Speaker 2: So yes, if he hits, he will be an outlier.
Speaker 2: All right, So we kind of lopped off the bottom
Speaker 2: end of this class. Tight end seven through ten. There
Speaker 2: the guys that stand out. And look, no, I didn't
Speaker 2: talk about aj Barner. I think he is gonna be
Speaker 2: a fantastic blocking tight end, but I don't see a
Speaker 2: lot of receiving utility at this second. The next level
Speaker 2: for him. One of our favorite prospects, though, is up
Speaker 2: next baby. He's on deck tight end six per consensus
Speaker 2: is Eric All. And both of us like, look on
Speaker 2: my Guys episode which I Mettlecoff. People are gonna go
Speaker 2: check that episode out. You and I were fighting before
Speaker 2: that show about who was gonna get to talk about
Speaker 2: Eric All in his illustrious career. I'm gonna let you
Speaker 2: lead this off man.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Eric a guy who comes from Michigan initially one tight.
Speaker 3: End factory that we have in college football.
Speaker 4: Then he transferred to Iowa, the other big one that
Speaker 4: we got in the Midwest tight end factory, and in
Speaker 4: so doing we got to see him in a couple
Speaker 4: different roles and he excelled at both of them. When
Speaker 4: he was on the field at Michigan prior to going
Speaker 4: to Iowa, he was the move guy and they would
Speaker 4: move him around and then target him in the passing game.
Speaker 4: And then Iowa he played straight in line and again
Speaker 4: was good deployed as both. I love the receiving utility
Speaker 4: with Eric All, and I think that's where for fantasy
Speaker 4: guys you can get excited about him. This tight end class,
Speaker 4: we always talk about brock Bauers, and then the way
Speaker 4: it was heading into the process, it was like, you know,
Speaker 4: it's Bowers obviously tighten one with a bullet. Then it's
Speaker 4: Jatavian Sanders tight end two with a bullet, and then
Speaker 4: it's like, then we have a couple guys that are
Speaker 4: vaguely interesting, and then no one else you need to
Speaker 4: pay attention to.
Speaker 3: Eric All was not.
Speaker 4: Talked about much, and you and I obviously disagreed with that.
Speaker 4: Eric All, he's a guy where contact explains the reason
Speaker 4: why his career in college didn't go maybe the way
Speaker 4: that otherwise he had the physical ability to do. He
Speaker 4: obviously had an ACL tear in October of his first,
Speaker 4: you know, last year at Iowa, and he also had
Speaker 4: season ending back injury at Michigan in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: And that thing.
Speaker 4: Not only did the twenty twenty two back injury cut
Speaker 4: a season early that year as well, but it also
Speaker 4: led to his departure from Michigan. There was a disagreement
Speaker 4: about the back surgery that he ended up having. Eric
Speaker 4: All elected to have that, you know, and of course
Speaker 4: that's what cut it the season short. Then he ends
Speaker 4: up leaving because you know, in part because of this disagreement,
Speaker 4: we don't know exactly what was operated on when he
Speaker 4: had that back surgery. It's one of those things as
Speaker 4: the public, you know, you know that he had that
Speaker 4: he had that surgery, but you don't know exactly, you know,
Speaker 4: what was done inside of there that that would be
Speaker 4: interesting to know.
Speaker 3: Of course, teams NFL teams is.
Speaker 4: Medical department will know that, and that's something where it's
Speaker 4: going to inform the risk of re injury going forward.
Speaker 4: Is this something that is constantly going to be with him.
Speaker 4: Is it something that's theoretically possible to totally get over.
Speaker 4: If it is and he is going to be healthy
Speaker 4: in the NFL, I just tell everyone out there right now,
Speaker 4: Eric Hall will be the steal of this tight.
Speaker 3: End class if we knew that he was going to.
Speaker 4: Be healthy, because this guy has the athleticism, the body type,
Speaker 4: and then the receiving skill. Those three things very few
Speaker 4: tight ends in this class can match. You're obviously Bower's
Speaker 4: at the top. Then you start talking about the other
Speaker 4: guys in those three categories. Eric All already is right
Speaker 4: dying near at the top of it. And you know,
Speaker 4: you see this with east Side at Michigan. You've seen
Speaker 4: it last year at Iowa when he was on the field,
Speaker 4: you know, and even go back to twenty twenty one,
Speaker 4: he had thirty eight catches, four under thirty seven yards
Speaker 4: in two touchdowns in his.
Speaker 3: Last year at Michigan was fully healthy.
Speaker 4: But going all the way back to twenty twenty one,
Speaker 4: love his combination of size, speed, feet six four and
Speaker 4: a half two point fifty two. De bro You can
Speaker 4: tell him in a second about the guys on tape
Speaker 4: that you have seen him out run and what they're
Speaker 4: verified forty times are trying to gage eric All's forty
Speaker 4: time because obviously he didn't get the pre draft tests.
Speaker 4: But I also I think he would have tested very
Speaker 4: very well in the splits. I think he would have
Speaker 4: been one of the faster tight ends in this class.
Speaker 4: He also is an you know, we were talking about
Speaker 4: Hulker and the thing about the change of directions and
Speaker 4: then how that manifests at the rout break.
Speaker 3: Eric All, you don't have to question that at all.
Speaker 4: He's a quick direction changer who accept and this is
Speaker 4: very important for gaining separation, especially heading into the next
Speaker 4: level when you start to project it. He accelerates quickly
Speaker 4: out of those route breaks and returns to top speed
Speaker 4: very quick again for a tight end and that stuff
Speaker 4: you're looking for, especially in this down tight end class.
Speaker 4: You can obviously line them up everywhere. One little nippick
Speaker 4: because he does have some concentration drops on film, but
Speaker 4: that's about all I got.
Speaker 3: With his ball skills, he has very good ball skills.
Speaker 4: And then the other thing he lacks the play strength
Speaker 4: as far as projecting maybe full inline duties at the
Speaker 4: next level, although he does give you effort as a blocker.
Speaker 3: It's just one of those things. You know.
Speaker 4: Again, the bigger power edges could have their way with him,
Speaker 4: But I think you could have him a deployment partial time,
Speaker 4: inline partial time. You can put him in the slot
Speaker 4: if you want to, for five percent of the snaps
Speaker 4: you kick him all wide as well. There's no problem
Speaker 4: with that. You can also have him as a lead blocker.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a guy you can motion into the
Speaker 4: backfield if you want. If on a given play you
Speaker 4: want to have a lead blocker going up into the
Speaker 4: hole get some short yardage. I think that this guy
Speaker 4: is a big time sleeper.
Speaker 2: D bro, dude, He's one of my favorite players of
Speaker 2: this class. I want to put some major respect on
Speaker 2: Rik Hall's name. And I'm gonna throw this this take
Speaker 2: out there at thor and we have not talked about
Speaker 2: this coming on. Before we turn the mics on and stuff,
Speaker 2: I want to tell the people out there right now,
Speaker 2: if Eric All would have been fully healthy and not
Speaker 2: torn his ACL this year, he would be the unquestioned,
Speaker 2: undisputed tight end two.
Speaker 1: Of this class.
Speaker 2: And people might people might find that spicy man. But here,
Speaker 2: just let me run through this and then if you're
Speaker 2: listening to this episode, you can ee roll all you
Speaker 2: want to at that take. Just sit down, pour yourself
Speaker 2: a drink and listen to this. Before Eric Hall left
Speaker 2: last season with an injury with the ACL tier. Before
Speaker 2: being sidelined, he was seventh in receiving yards amongst all
Speaker 2: tight ends. He was eleventh in this tackles forced you
Speaker 2: look at the last two seasons where he played and
Speaker 2: saw at least twenty targets, So not twenty twenty two
Speaker 2: because of the back injury. Twenty twenty one and twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three he ranked top ten in yards per route
Speaker 2: run amongst all FBS tight ends with at least twenty
Speaker 2: targets in both of those freaking seasons. Thore you look
Speaker 2: at last year before, or at least last year in
Speaker 2: its totality overall. And this is a metric that I
Speaker 2: brought up. If people want to go back and think
Speaker 2: about why were we so high on sammy ballgame, why
Speaker 2: were we so high on Sam Laporta's game, and transitioning
Speaker 2: with a receiving utility to the NFL. People are getting
Speaker 2: tired of hearing this metric out of my mouth, but
Speaker 2: it translates and it's real dude.
Speaker 3: Eric All.
Speaker 2: Last year amongst all tight ends with at least ten
Speaker 2: man coverage targets, he was first in yards per out
Speaker 2: run against man coverage, eighth in PFF receiving grade against
Speaker 2: man coverage. He can win on the slot or if
Speaker 2: you bump him out wide. He has a move tight end.
Speaker 2: He has a weapon. And yes, to your point, we
Speaker 2: don't have athletic testing. But if you go back to
Speaker 2: the film and the thing that I threw out on
Speaker 2: X and I tweeted this out, so Peven go check
Speaker 2: it out, man, kaylan King, if you go back into
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one versus Penn State, and I know this
Speaker 2: is very nitpicky, but we're trying to understand what type
Speaker 2: of athleticism this dude has because obviously with the ACL
Speaker 2: he's not able to test. In twenty twenty one, he
Speaker 2: took a screen pass and burnt Kaylan King to the
Speaker 2: corner and started pulling away. Why does this matter? Kaylan
Speaker 2: King ran a four to six one at the NFL
Speaker 2: Combine and in high school at his pro day he
Speaker 2: ran a four or five two. Now say what you
Speaker 2: want about pro day times. We bashed him on the show.
Speaker 2: They can be look taken with a grain of salt.
Speaker 2: But even if we take it at the basement market
Speaker 2: value of okay, it's a four to six. So we're
Speaker 2: saying Eric Hall was beating a corner in the open
Speaker 2: field and pulling away from him. That runs a four
Speaker 2: to six tried and true tested. If you want to
Speaker 2: bump that out to a four or five, okay, fine,
Speaker 2: But what we're talking about here is Eric Hall with.
Speaker 1: This in using this as context.
Speaker 2: Would have what for four six speed at his basement
Speaker 2: four to five, probably maybe even four to four if
Speaker 2: he dropped a little bit of weight.
Speaker 1: I don't think any of that's impossible.
Speaker 3: King at the very worst is four six flat.
Speaker 4: Even if we think that there was big time exaggeration
Speaker 4: there and Eric Hall is faster than Kaylin King, yes,
Speaker 4: just watch it, watch it. It's right there. This is
Speaker 4: not like an opinion. Kaylen King had his shot and
Speaker 4: he lost a foot race to Eric Hall exactly. And
Speaker 4: deebro like to the point about the forty time, the
Speaker 4: guy that we talked about in this class who had
Speaker 4: the best testing with the tight ends of these half guys,
Speaker 4: Theo Johnson, ran a four to five to seven. I'll
Speaker 4: tell you this right now. If Eric Hall had tested
Speaker 4: the same day THEO Johnson would not have had the
Speaker 4: fastest forty time of those titles. He was beating a
Speaker 4: four five seven for sure. Would it have been low
Speaker 4: four fives or would it would it have been mid
Speaker 4: four I don't know, but it would have been better
Speaker 4: than four five seven I can tell you that for sure.
Speaker 4: And Deebro, you did a great job of introducing some
Speaker 4: of that context. Let me give you a little bit
Speaker 4: more more just to show how impressive it was the
Speaker 4: numbers that Debro just mentioned last year at Iowa. And Debro,
Speaker 4: you remember we went a lot into the context of
Speaker 4: the Iowaha guy offensive situation environment when we were.
Speaker 3: Talking about Samy ball game a baby.
Speaker 4: It's not pretty and I hate to do it as
Speaker 4: someone who went to Iowa, but you have to give
Speaker 4: the context to show people how impressive it was what
Speaker 4: Eric Hall was.
Speaker 3: Doing his first six games in that system.
Speaker 4: Iowa last year, they averaged one hundred and eighteen passing
Speaker 4: yards per game per game, Debro, their completion percentage as
Speaker 4: a team. As a team was forty eight point nine percent. Lord,
Speaker 4: You look at the average yards per catch of their
Speaker 4: top guys. So the top receivers eight point two yards
Speaker 4: per catch, six point two yards per catch, nine point
Speaker 4: eight yards per catch. So that was the top three
Speaker 4: Iowa receivers in terms of catches. Eric Hall fourteen point
Speaker 4: two yards per catch on an offense that's stunk with
Speaker 4: quarterbacks that couldn't get them the ball. The guy who
Speaker 4: came in and then was playing the whole season is
Speaker 4: Deacon Hill guy. He ends with eleven hundred and fifty
Speaker 4: two passing yards, four point six adjusted yards per attempt,
Speaker 4: and a five to eight td I and T rate.
Speaker 4: Eric Hall was making stuff out and nothing. Who does
Speaker 4: this remind you of mister Laporte the year before. Now
Speaker 4: they're different players for sure, but eric All was brought
Speaker 4: in to be that we are losing the source of
Speaker 4: our offense. We need to find a guy who will
Speaker 4: be that for next year. Because obviously the quarterback ging
Speaker 4: wasn't gonna be changing too much. The quality of it,
Speaker 4: at least, the offensive line was more or less the same.
Speaker 3: The running backs were the same.
Speaker 4: They were like, we need to get eric All, and
Speaker 4: he was for those first six games.
Speaker 3: Still he got injured in the seventh one.
Speaker 4: That on the surface, it might not look as impressive
Speaker 4: you put it in the context where it occurred, and
Speaker 4: then you know what he did at Michigan. You know
Speaker 4: the kind of recruit he was. You see the kind
Speaker 4: of athlete he is on the field. We don't need
Speaker 4: the pre draft testing. This guy, huge sleeper. Like I said, dude,
Speaker 4: I love him.
Speaker 2: He's my favorite tight end of this entire class. Both
Speaker 2: where people are gonna be able to like, our NFL
Speaker 2: teams are gonna be able to draft him.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna throw this on top.
Speaker 2: I have not heard your comp for Eric all but
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna lay this into your thor. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna use a former Iowa player as my comp. And
Speaker 2: it's not semi ballgame, man, but it is no offense.
Speaker 3: Oh I like that. I like that one. What in
Speaker 3: fact are you going to steal that one? I might
Speaker 3: steal that one live on air. That that that's really good?
Speaker 4: So so right now I got us, But I feel yeah, no, no,
Speaker 4: fan is better.
Speaker 3: That's what's occurring.
Speaker 4: All right, I'm stealing that one right now this typing,
Speaker 4: you're about to hear that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely love this because this happens on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: Off air. So I love the fact that we actually
Speaker 1: capture this on air.
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Speaker 2: the top five this tight end class or I'm pretty
Speaker 2: high on this dude, Like I'm kind of surprise he's
Speaker 2: at tight end five. Man, you might be a little
Speaker 2: bit interested to know where my ranking of him is.
Speaker 2: And and just to back this train up, just for
Speaker 2: a second, putting the further respect on Eric Hall. He
Speaker 2: is my tight end four of this class, but another
Speaker 2: guy that needs people's respect as the tight end five
Speaker 2: per consensus right now, he is my tight end two
Speaker 2: of this class.
Speaker 1: Thor bensonnot give your thoughts.
Speaker 3: My thoughts, he's consensus tight end five.
Speaker 2: Consensus tight end five, and I think it's wrong. I
Speaker 2: talked about him in our guys uh episode with Middle Coough,
Speaker 2: but I didn't get to hear your thoughts on him.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, first thought is is that's a that's a ludicrous ranking.
Speaker 3: That's very disrespectful.
Speaker 4: And and so my my rank to wrap it with
Speaker 4: Eric Hall, I have him four, but very close to
Speaker 4: a guy that we're gonna be talking about in a
Speaker 4: second word, yp Eric All might even end up my
Speaker 4: my process is tight end three, saying my tight end
Speaker 4: three and four are are right neck and neck. But
Speaker 4: Ben is it snot or Senate, We're gonna have.
Speaker 2: To get a clarification on this because we've got.
Speaker 3: To get clarification, Like, yeah, both ways.
Speaker 2: I feel like I say it both ways depending on
Speaker 2: the show and depending on the week, depending on what
Speaker 2: videos I'm watched or trying to figure it out. So
Speaker 2: we'll just go with Ben. How about that?
Speaker 4: Okay, let we'll go with Ben. No disrespect to the
Speaker 4: luck kid. I'm totally with you on this, and I'm
Speaker 4: in the second year. I'm gonna I'm gonna say something
Speaker 4: where I'm gonna have to see if you think I'm
Speaker 4: going too far. But just to set it up with
Speaker 4: with Ben from Kansas State six foot four, two hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty pounds nine seven to three rats. He has
Speaker 4: had a really good process, particularly the athletic testing opened eyes.
Speaker 4: I understood understood ish why maybe some people were sleeping
Speaker 4: on him in advance of that. Once he proved the
Speaker 4: athleticism at that size, I don't know what else there
Speaker 4: is to talk about. The kids is really really good.
Speaker 4: The only thing you can nipick him about at this
Speaker 4: point as far as that like no star recruit, but everything,
Speaker 4: everything's there. He worked his way up here, has the
Speaker 4: frame has the athleticism, obviously high effort combo tight end
Speaker 4: with ball skills and athletic fluidity. He got heavy snaps
Speaker 4: in line at Kansas State, so you know that he
Speaker 4: can do that. He can also be comfortably deployed in
Speaker 4: the slot or off set, eager blocker who gets to work.
Speaker 4: I love that lunch pale type style of his game.
Speaker 3: For sure, you're gonna get the receivingil utility.
Speaker 4: We'll talk about that in a second, but I love
Speaker 4: that he gets after it every play, whether it's going
Speaker 4: after the edge as the inline guy, whether you saw
Speaker 4: a lot of Kansas State shifting him around the formation
Speaker 4: and then it was like where he would end up.
Speaker 4: It's like he has a target for the you know
Speaker 4: hit in the run game. You got to go out
Speaker 4: and pick that dude off. Always did like that. That
Speaker 4: guy was like I don't want I don't want Ben
Speaker 4: coming after me.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: On the second level, it was like looking back and
Speaker 4: water Boys playing full back now like you're about to
Speaker 4: get run over with him. You got your hands full
Speaker 4: because you know, and it's like the other stuff of
Speaker 4: like fifteen yards down the field with the leading concept
Speaker 4: and the dude's running behind him, and it's by the
Speaker 4: goal line.
Speaker 3: You know we're in the red zone.
Speaker 4: He's the dude that's gonna be running out there as
Speaker 4: your league guy, and he is going to annihilate anyone
Speaker 4: that comes in.
Speaker 3: The path and is a potential threat to tackle.
Speaker 4: You're doing so he becomes the best friend of the
Speaker 4: ball carriers, and that way as well, he's the best
Speaker 4: friend of the quarterback in the passing game.
Speaker 3: The block and keep getting better.
Speaker 4: I did see a couple reps where he lunged into
Speaker 4: the contact point, but that would be my only nippick
Speaker 4: with that.
Speaker 3: Like the anchor and pass pro.
Speaker 4: But as far as the route running goes, that athleticism
Speaker 4: that he showed in Indianapolis, it plays. He's a very
Speaker 4: The know how of his routes is very high. I
Speaker 4: feel like as well, he gains the separation, he gets
Speaker 4: off the line quickly shoots up to seem in a hurry.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that aspect of his game gets
Speaker 4: enough credit, but he will threaten that. It really will
Speaker 4: threaten that scene, and he will make the play down there.
Speaker 4: You have to respect it. If you don't, you leave
Speaker 4: him one on one with the guy that can't run.
Speaker 4: He is going to make that play you put like
Speaker 4: a Jonathan Abram type in the NFL, like like just
Speaker 4: a head knocker, but who is not good in coverage.
Speaker 4: If you're like, oh, we're gonna put We're gonna stick
Speaker 4: him on on Ben because then we can get all
Speaker 4: of our other good coverage guys in the other guy
Speaker 4: he will, he will eat him alive. So I mean,
Speaker 4: like you have to give him respect in in coverage.
Speaker 4: I like all that stuff. I like his ball skills.
Speaker 4: He what I saw in his film, particular utility on
Speaker 4: the inbreaking stuff over the middle, that's very good. Like
Speaker 4: I said, gets into that route real quick, and then
Speaker 4: you're like, what's he gonna do?
Speaker 3: What's he gonna do?
Speaker 4: And then he'll snap that thing off really quick, and
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you have a free throwing window
Speaker 4: if you're the quarterback, and in the NFL. I think
Speaker 4: he's gonna get a metric ton of looks in precisely
Speaker 4: this way. We're about to get six three yards at
Speaker 4: least unless he starts doing the tackle breaking berserker thing.
Speaker 4: You know what, once he gets it, it could be more,
Speaker 4: but we're gonna get it six yards on this thing,
Speaker 4: nearly half of his catches last year were between the
Speaker 4: hashes within twenty yards of the line of scrimmage. That's
Speaker 4: a part of the thing we're in college. It's you
Speaker 4: respect it watching it in the NFL, de Bro, And
Speaker 4: you know that's the money zone in the NFL. If
Speaker 4: you can be an efficiency king between the hashes up
Speaker 4: to twenty yards down the field, the NFL will always
Speaker 4: have a home for you, my guy, And they will
Speaker 4: always have a home for Ben. This is what I
Speaker 4: was going to toss on you, de Bro. I've been
Speaker 4: going back and forth on his player comparison, mostly because
Speaker 4: the guy that I keep being like this is who
Speaker 4: I want to come to.
Speaker 3: I don't want to avoke the name.
Speaker 2: Are you gonna steal my comp I don't know if
Speaker 2: are you going with a former Iowa player here?
Speaker 3: I am going with the former Iowa play Oh dude,
Speaker 3: do it?
Speaker 1: Do it because I'm going to shock you with this.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, mine right now is LAPARDA.
Speaker 1: Oh mine right now is TJ. Hockinson.
Speaker 4: Let's go oh yeah, and you you could go either
Speaker 4: like yes. When watching him, it's like how did he
Speaker 4: not go to Iowa? It's like, there's the elements of
Speaker 4: all those different guys. I think even Dallas Clark is
Speaker 4: on like his you know, the athletic so it's like
Speaker 4: the conveyor belt of what Iowa always looks for and
Speaker 4: look in their tight ends. He is that, so you
Speaker 4: can think, do not think of him as like when
Speaker 4: people are like, oh, you know he's a walk on
Speaker 4: and he's Kansas State and you know, then they started
Speaker 4: talking about these other tight ends. Think of sinat More
Speaker 4: as a Iowa tight tight end.
Speaker 3: That's what he was. That's how he was used.
Speaker 4: That is the physical package that you get with the
Speaker 4: athleticism that you get and the two way utility. A
Speaker 4: guy who is always going to give you effort as
Speaker 4: the blocker, whether it's in line, whether it's shifted around
Speaker 4: the formation, whether it's go out and get someone at
Speaker 4: the second level. We need this block in order for
Speaker 4: this wrung concept to work, or whether it's all that
Speaker 4: efficiency stuff. As the receiver, you get that for sure,
Speaker 4: that's the money in the bank stuff, but then you
Speaker 4: get the tackle breaking after it for the potential of more.
Speaker 3: I really like this play. I don't know if I
Speaker 3: if I'm an end with.
Speaker 4: The laporta comp because he Laporta was in rarefied air
Speaker 4: for US, obviously, but the physical package is so close,
Speaker 4: the athletic testing is so close that I don't think
Speaker 4: it is ridiculous to toss out.
Speaker 2: All It's not ridiculous at all, and I'll throw some
Speaker 2: of the things. Actually, he was top twenty in yards
Speaker 2: per rout run against man coverage last year amongst all
Speaker 2: FBS tight ends with at least twenty targets overall, tenth
Speaker 2: in yards per route run, ninth in PFF receiving grade.
Speaker 2: Like all of this stuff screams, and then you add
Speaker 2: the top shelf testing on top of it, Like all
Speaker 2: this stuff screams that people are sleeping on this dude.
Speaker 2: Like we're looking at his ten yard split, eighty first percentile,
Speaker 2: vertical jump ninety seven percentile, broad jump ninety fourth percentile.
Speaker 2: Just keep going down the list, baby, Oh, look at
Speaker 2: the three gone ninety six percentile. He is an underrated athlete.
Speaker 2: And people like I think he's gonna go third round
Speaker 2: of the NFL Draft. I think that lock him into
Speaker 2: the third round of the NFL Draft. I will not
Speaker 2: be surprised if he were to sneak into the back
Speaker 2: end of the second although I do think it's rich
Speaker 2: considering the wide receiver and tackle class we're looking at.
Speaker 3: I would take him late second for sure.
Speaker 2: I don't have a problem at all. I have no
Speaker 2: problem with that because his ability both as a blocker
Speaker 2: and a receiver. I'll even throw this out, man, And
Speaker 2: this might sound spicy to some people, he is the
Speaker 2: best all around tight end in this class. If you
Speaker 2: married the blocking and the receiving utility, brock Bauers can
Speaker 2: dunk on him for days. As far as his ability
Speaker 2: after the catch and as a receiver, that's fine, But
Speaker 2: brock Bauers can't hold his jock as far as being
Speaker 2: a blocker that his blocking reps the closest guy that
Speaker 2: I can remember in recent classes where his blocking his
Speaker 2: blocking reps jumped out as much as this player Thor
Speaker 2: and I loved Pat Fryarmth as a blocker coming out.
Speaker 2: Now we haven't seen that utility translate to the NFL,
Speaker 2: but Pat Friarmth had some nasty and some mean blocking
Speaker 2: reps on his film in college, and they remind me
Speaker 2: of bensknot so much. Man, so really a player.
Speaker 4: Yeah and and there with a big hammer on the
Speaker 4: inline right like Uh with Ben Uh. The awesome thing
Speaker 4: is you get something you saw that of course at
Speaker 4: the college thing, but then also the out in space
Speaker 4: in particular, and like you were mentioned, and bring them
Speaker 4: down the line, send them out second level or in
Speaker 4: the concepts where the third level he's he's picking guys off.
Speaker 3: It's it's just really.
Speaker 4: Fun to watch and and in some ways what it
Speaker 4: evoked for me is the blocking of the guy that
Speaker 4: you comped him to. I I remember, you know, of course,
Speaker 4: I watch all the Iowa games live sometimes a couple
Speaker 4: of different times. My favorite dude to watch of of
Speaker 4: of like of the last decade as far as on their.
Speaker 3: Offense, was Hockinson because you got the receiving stuff that
Speaker 3: last year at Iowa he overtook fan as their their
Speaker 3: number one receiver.
Speaker 4: But in college he went was way more a part
Speaker 4: of the blocking. Of course, you know, it being Iowa
Speaker 4: and you would see Hockinson he would be, you know,
Speaker 4: running over defensive ends off the line, but then also
Speaker 4: the thing out in space would just wreck people. I
Speaker 4: distinctly remember one play I think this was eight twenty eighteen,
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, somewhere in there. Hockinson on one play gets
Speaker 4: out to the second level and ends up blocking three
Speaker 4: dudes because he blasted one guy and there was another
Speaker 4: dude right by him that was trying to run by.
Speaker 4: So he blasts the one dude and then in so doing,
Speaker 4: the other guy then gets run over as well. And
Speaker 4: then there was another guy coming in pursuit from another angle,
Speaker 4: who then essentially gets wiped out by the carnage of
Speaker 4: the other two guys that he had just blown up.
Speaker 4: You would see that with Hawkinson. It's the same thing
Speaker 4: with Ben. Out there in the open field. He is
Speaker 4: taking someone out and sometimes he will cave take basically
Speaker 4: a race.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like the Game of Thrones when it's like,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, not Game of Thrones.
Speaker 4: That the one on Netflix where they have to play
Speaker 4: the game Hunger Not Hunger Games. What's the one I'm
Speaker 4: thinking of where then you have like two hundred and
Speaker 4: fifty people and they keep getting taken out and then
Speaker 4: on the board it shows like and then they take
Speaker 4: their their character off the screen. Dot dot's him with it,
Speaker 4: like he'll just take the defenders off on on a
Speaker 4: concept where they're just oh to the play now.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's it's like he's Uh, squid Games.
Speaker 3: Why couldn't it say there we go.
Speaker 1: I were like, yeah, like I was, I was waiting.
Speaker 1: I think it's spid Games.
Speaker 2: But I was gonna let you get there because you
Speaker 2: give me enough crap off air about not watching TV
Speaker 2: shows enough, so you know, I was gonna let kind
Speaker 2: of let you hang yourself with that one. But uh, dude,
Speaker 2: we love Ben Snott, love his game overall, transitioning to
Speaker 2: the tight end four of this class, which I think
Speaker 2: it's blaspheous that Ben is.
Speaker 1: Buried this far.
Speaker 2: But here we are, uh, the guy who blew up
Speaker 2: the combine the tight end four perkinsensus, THEO Johnson out
Speaker 2: of Penn State.
Speaker 3: Look.
Speaker 2: I like his game thor and I'm just gonna lean
Speaker 2: in because I don't. We haven't talked about him a
Speaker 2: ton of off air. I like his game. I was
Speaker 2: surprised by his testing in some ways because I felt
Speaker 2: like a lot of that testing doesn't translate.
Speaker 1: To the to the field. Yet if you look.
Speaker 2: At his analytical profile over the last two years, he
Speaker 2: is not ranked higher than twenty ninth in PFF receiving
Speaker 2: grade or yards per route run. He did open some eyes,
Speaker 2: and I will say this in the context of his
Speaker 2: game Penn State, it was a lot of screens, a
Speaker 2: lot of outs. They didn't use him to stretch the
Speaker 2: seam a lot. The very few times you saw him
Speaker 2: work upfield, that's where you saw the straight line speed.
Speaker 2: But I do think that outside of the athletic testing
Speaker 2: on his film, THEO Johnson is a little bit more
Speaker 2: lumbering in and out of his route breaks. And so
Speaker 2: I like his game. I don't love his game, but
Speaker 2: I will give some context to this that he had
Speaker 2: a fantastic week Inmobile. Dude, if you wanted to see
Speaker 2: a week where we could see a player rise above
Speaker 2: probably the totality of the profile in college. THEO Johnson
Speaker 2: did do that immobile because he was constantly getting open.
Speaker 2: He was a factor in all the red zone drills.
Speaker 2: So I do have to give him some respect for that.
Speaker 2: My com for him is Logan Thomas. But what are
Speaker 2: your thoughts on THEO.
Speaker 4: For Yeah, I had I had Benson, not tight End two,
Speaker 4: I had all tight End four. Both were above the
Speaker 4: consensus rankings, which of course means that we're going to
Speaker 4: have some guys that are the opposite and be lower
Speaker 4: on consensus. THEO Johnson would be one of those guys.
Speaker 4: For me, you said he was tight end four consensus.
Speaker 4: He is my tight end six in this class six guys.
Speaker 4: You know, to me, there there's a little bit of
Speaker 4: a break after those tight end the top six guys
Speaker 4: like you were sort of setting up at the top
Speaker 4: of the show, and then you know whether you're your
Speaker 4: flavors Hulk or whether your flavor is Bell, whether your
Speaker 4: flavor you know Wiley or one of those other guys
Speaker 4: or you know Tim Brayman or whatever. But like for
Speaker 4: me that this tier it ends with THEO Johnson, and
Speaker 4: I agree with with with how you set that up
Speaker 4: vis a v THEO Johnson of the testing was surprising,
Speaker 4: and we have seen this over the years with Penn
Speaker 4: State guys when they come in and then they test
Speaker 4: way better. Even guys who transferred from Penn State to
Speaker 4: other programs, they have this quirk when they go to
Speaker 4: the NFL combine. So I don't know what is going
Speaker 4: on in Happy.
Speaker 2: Value, but that they got to be passing around the
Speaker 2: spot sham water dude like the special Yeah last year,
Speaker 2: because did you see Briton Strange coming out last year
Speaker 2: and testing the way he did.
Speaker 4: The more topical guy in that tight end class for
Speaker 4: these purposes was Zach Kuonz.
Speaker 3: That's right, a guy we started at Penn State.
Speaker 4: The physical dimensions and the testing is Zach Kuons and
Speaker 4: THEO Johnson is eerily similar. In fact, I'm looking at
Speaker 4: the mock draftible page right now, Zak Kuons is the
Speaker 4: number three player of comparison for at least in terms
Speaker 4: of the athletic testing profile to THEO Johnson.
Speaker 3: Zach Kuns a.
Speaker 4: Guy who began his career at Penn State. And now
Speaker 4: we're really coming full circle, Deebro, because the reason that
Speaker 4: zach Konz transferred to Old Dominion was because of a
Speaker 4: guy named Pat Fryermuth. That is why Zach Kunz had
Speaker 4: to get out of Happy Valley. But it seems like,
Speaker 4: if nothing else, at Penn State they have really not
Speaker 4: only really good.
Speaker 3: Strength and conditioning, but they also work.
Speaker 4: On these combined testings, which in this thing is topical
Speaker 4: because Zach Koons last year, the one shocking I didn't
Speaker 4: I wasn't surprised about the North South stuff was Zach Konz.
Speaker 4: That was apparent on film. He could get off the
Speaker 4: line and then he could he could take this seam
Speaker 4: really quickly, particularly for a.
Speaker 3: Guy his size. What was stunning was Zach Konz goes
Speaker 3: in ninety first percentile three cone at at you know,
Speaker 3: almost six seven two fifty five, and then he uh
Speaker 3: short shuttle was ninety third percentile with THEO.
Speaker 4: Johnson this year it was the same thing where that
Speaker 4: what was really stunning was was the agility testing at
Speaker 4: the combine.
Speaker 3: He uh eighty seven percentile short shuttle.
Speaker 4: On with with THEO, and then I think he deferred
Speaker 4: the three cone to to his pro day but ends
Speaker 4: up doing a seven to one five, which which is solid,
Speaker 4: but overall to your point, de Bro, with the testing
Speaker 4: and then his game were with THEO very similar to
Speaker 4: Koons for me where I see it on his film,
Speaker 4: it's the.
Speaker 3: North South stuff.
Speaker 4: It's just we didn't get to see that manifest as
Speaker 4: much because you so rarely got to see him going
Speaker 4: down the field twenty five yards god forbid thirty never
Speaker 4: like the constitution of that Penn State offense. It was
Speaker 4: run run, you know, I mean like Iowa ish the
Speaker 4: you know, in terms of this overall strategy, you had
Speaker 4: the pro style thing out of twelve personnel. They had
Speaker 4: another tight end who will be talking about next year
Speaker 4: that they use and then Drew Allard the quarterback, even
Speaker 4: though he's a five star. It's like the Hackenberg thing
Speaker 4: all over again at Penn State, where they won't let
Speaker 4: this five star pocket passer throw down the field. And
Speaker 4: so instead of being used in the way that I
Speaker 4: think THEO Johnson should have been used, which is stretch.
Speaker 4: You know, use them as the inline dude, and then
Speaker 4: you stretch the scene. You use them for spacing purposes
Speaker 4: and then you can put them on the slot if
Speaker 4: you want. But like he can play in line for sure,
Speaker 4: and then that's how you get some of that spacing
Speaker 4: and he can make a play downfield.
Speaker 3: They didn't use him like that.
Speaker 4: It was a lot of this stuff in the intermediate
Speaker 4: rate and then they're asking him to break stuff off.
Speaker 4: You go out, you go in different stuff. He's not
Speaker 4: as good at that. He's not fluid changing directions on
Speaker 4: the field. It's the labor thing. He's telegraphing where that
Speaker 4: route break is gonna be. Now it's rounded, it's got
Speaker 4: a sort of lumber into it. Think of like a
Speaker 4: guy steering a cruise ship and now with the steering wheel,
Speaker 4: he's got to go. That's sort of when when you
Speaker 4: see THEO Johnson on what needs to be these quick timing,
Speaker 4: precision type routes, it's just the footwork is not there
Speaker 4: and the change of direction just is not there. And
Speaker 4: that was the way that he was primarily used in college.
Speaker 4: I would like to see the other aspects of his
Speaker 4: game developed. I would like to see the usage of
Speaker 4: him when he is deployed in the passing game, but
Speaker 4: totally upended from what it was at Penn State. And
Speaker 4: I think that's where you might be able to realize
Speaker 4: some of this dormant physical ability that we didn't get
Speaker 4: to see on the field as much at Penn State,
Speaker 4: just because of the way that that offense went. I
Speaker 4: think that they're ceiling here. I think there's more risk
Speaker 4: than that tight end floor that the censive board has
Speaker 4: Matt is recognizing. So THEO Johnson's my tight end six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's my tight end five man. And I like
Speaker 2: his game, but again we've talked about I don't love
Speaker 2: his game. I think that if you see him kind
Speaker 2: of surpass expectations and live up to the testing profile
Speaker 2: in the NFL, it's gonna be Because the team decided
Speaker 2: to use him a lot more on crossers, and use
Speaker 2: him down the scene and just ask him to run
Speaker 2: straight and run away from people and be fast.
Speaker 1: You know he can do those things. But as far
Speaker 1: as like.
Speaker 3: He's got to get up to that top speed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, dude, Like you're not gonna see him like
Speaker 2: at least an NFL team should not be asking him
Speaker 2: to run a lot of like basically a lot of
Speaker 2: routes where he is gonna have to either sink his
Speaker 2: hips or break really strongly top at the top of
Speaker 2: his route. That's the part where he'll struggle at man.
Speaker 2: So I'm with you on to the tight end three
Speaker 2: of this class, which again we're talking about where we
Speaker 2: differ from this class. The tight end three of this
Speaker 2: class is my tight end six Kate Stover. What are
Speaker 2: your thoughts on him for Because I like him, I
Speaker 2: don't love him, and I especially do not love him
Speaker 2: enough to put him tight end three of this class.
Speaker 4: For sure, he's my tight end five. Kate Stover six
Speaker 4: foot four two forty seven eight to two raz uh. There's
Speaker 4: some interesting things about the profile, for sure, but yeah,
Speaker 4: I can't get to tight end three. Former prep basketball
Speaker 4: player Kate Stover was Ohio's mister football as well. Coming
Speaker 4: out of high school he signed. It's a very interesting backstory.
Speaker 4: He signed with Ohio State as a four star linebacker
Speaker 4: who at the time to forty seven that you know,
Speaker 4: they have the really good recruiting department and different stuff,
Speaker 4: and they always have the interesting thumbnails with the better recruits,
Speaker 4: they will give them pro comps. I thought it was
Speaker 4: fascinating to go back and see that two forty seven
Speaker 4: Sports comped Kate Stover to Anthony Barr coming out of
Speaker 4: high school. Really yes, as an outside attacking type linebacker prospect,
Speaker 4: the rangy guy as a freshman in ohiose Kate's over
Speaker 4: play defensive end and linebacker, so that you know, again
Speaker 4: in the edge thing they were trying to decide is
Speaker 4: this dude is he is he the hand and the
Speaker 4: dare dude? Can we send him off the edge like
Speaker 4: Anthony Barr kind of a guy. And then he was
Speaker 4: moved to tight end as a sophomore in twenty twenty
Speaker 4: two the COVID season. He was briefly switched back to
Speaker 4: defense late in twenty twenty one, but then he returns
Speaker 4: a tight end full time for the last two years.
Speaker 3: Things you like about him with the tape springing athlete.
Speaker 4: He does have burgeoning skills as a receiver that I
Speaker 4: think will continue to get better. He is early on
Speaker 4: the development and curve the thing you like the most,
Speaker 4: very very good hands.
Speaker 3: Only Terry drops on one hundred.
Speaker 4: Plus targets the last two years. You get the ball
Speaker 4: in Kate Stover's caitch. He catching that ball.
Speaker 3: It just is what it is.
Speaker 4: He got vice grip hands. He has good understanding of
Speaker 4: route running despite being new to the position, or at
Speaker 4: least at this stage of his development. I feel like
Speaker 4: he has a better idea of what he's doing in
Speaker 4: a feel for that that maybe he ought to. So
Speaker 4: with that you can project more improvement going forward. It's
Speaker 4: not the thing of like I'm just racing to the spot.
Speaker 4: I have to go to the coach sas like I have to.
Speaker 4: I have to get up the line as fasts I can.
Speaker 4: Then I just have to race that spot. He has
Speaker 4: the idea of how to get into that route, how
Speaker 4: to get off the line, and then modulating the tempo
Speaker 4: up to that rout break, try to keep the defender
Speaker 4: off to be to the center of where are we
Speaker 4: going to do that reutbreak where.
Speaker 3: Am I going? And then he gained separation.
Speaker 4: In this way, there's efficiency into and out of those
Speaker 4: routbreaks and those sorts of things. I like his stop,
Speaker 4: his stop and startability, but he appears on film to
Speaker 4: lack the high end speed to get down the field
Speaker 4: and consistently threaten that seam. And that was one thing
Speaker 4: with his NFL projection we were talking about before. Ben
Speaker 4: Sanada guy I know can do that. Eric Hall, guy
Speaker 4: that I know can do that. Theo Johnson maybe right,
Speaker 4: like when he starts to get used that way and
Speaker 4: he's an offensive it's in them where he can work
Speaker 4: on that is something you can project that more With
Speaker 4: Caatee Stover, I'm not sure if he ever becomes that
Speaker 4: guy in the NFL. I didn't see as much of
Speaker 4: that and as much skill with that. He's coming along
Speaker 4: as as a blocker at this point. I like the
Speaker 4: way that he uses length, you know, I mean like
Speaker 4: he's coming from the trances on the other side. He
Speaker 4: understands the engagement at the contact point a different stuff
Speaker 4: like that and what the defender wants to do.
Speaker 3: So he again he's showing an aptitude for this area
Speaker 3: of his game.
Speaker 4: Understands angle and the leverage, right, Like, I think it's
Speaker 4: a thing of like sort of putting yourself in the
Speaker 4: shoes of the person that you're across from and understanding
Speaker 4: what beats that person. You see some of that already
Speaker 4: with him, but I think he needs to continue working
Speaker 4: on his technique with that and also his core strength,
Speaker 4: because sometimes you will see him the dude jerk him,
Speaker 4: you know, with the shoulder pads, and all of a
Speaker 4: sudden he gets yanked out balanced. Now the dude can
Speaker 4: shut him and he can go hunting. So there's just
Speaker 4: a little technical things that needs to just be fine
Speaker 4: tuned a little bit with that. I like the sort
Speaker 4: of the starter kit that he's bringing to the NFL.
Speaker 4: I like the idea of some of these flashes that
Speaker 4: we've seen on film. It both weighs a two way
Speaker 4: kind of a guy, but I don't like the physical
Speaker 4: package enough to be able to put him tight end
Speaker 4: two or tight end three in this class, even being
Speaker 4: like a little bit of a down tight end class
Speaker 4: after Bowers. I don't like the stuff that we see
Speaker 4: enough to be able to get there as far as
Speaker 4: that goes. But you know, for me again, Kate's over
Speaker 4: tight end five and a guy I'd be okay with
Speaker 4: on draftday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed, man, Like I agree with everything you said there.
Speaker 2: I have him as tight end six. Look at his game,
Speaker 2: there's definitely utility to it. I will say, I agree
Speaker 2: with you that I don't think he's a top shelf
Speaker 2: athlete where he's ever going to be an elite at
Speaker 2: the position. Can he turn into being a serviceable, middle
Speaker 2: of the road kind of receiving tight end that can
Speaker 2: also give you some blocking utility? I think that firmly
Speaker 2: can happen. But I don't think he's a guy where
Speaker 2: you're gonna expect to run like a ton of your
Speaker 2: passing attack through. Can he be a guy that if
Speaker 2: you need him to basically, I mean kind of like
Speaker 2: the guy I have him comped to Hayden Hurst. Can
Speaker 2: he be a solid third or fourth option in an
Speaker 2: NFL passing attack. I believe that is he ever going
Speaker 2: to be where you could make him a pillar of
Speaker 2: your passing attack being the number one, number two option.
Speaker 2: I just don't think he has that type of ceiling
Speaker 2: to him. He's a one speed runner and you see
Speaker 2: this some of this in his testing metrics too. It's
Speaker 2: where it's like, okay, well, his ten yard splits eighty
Speaker 2: first percentile. His forty yard dash was okay at four
Speaker 2: sixty five, but it wasn't amazing.
Speaker 1: And you see some of.
Speaker 2: The limitations as far as him being an explosive athlete
Speaker 2: also show up in the testing. I mean, dude, his
Speaker 2: twenty yard shuttle was a thirty first percentile. His broad
Speaker 2: up in verts neither one of them eclipse sixty seven percentile.
Speaker 2: So some of that shows up in the testing. But
Speaker 2: I think he can be a solid addition to a
Speaker 2: passing attack. You won't see him lined up on the outside,
Speaker 2: you won't see him beating man coverage. Can he win
Speaker 2: underneath and beat zone and be a guy who could
Speaker 2: break some tackles but not be at the top shelf
Speaker 2: of that. I firmly believe that thor So. I think
Speaker 2: he's a solid tight end prospect. I don't think he's
Speaker 2: a top shelf guy. Definitely not deserving of tight end
Speaker 2: three for me and for you. But transitioning this over
Speaker 2: to the guy who's basically been the tight end two
Speaker 2: of this class since people started researching this class, and
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit lower on him then consensus Again,
Speaker 2: we're talking about I got bensonad up here at tight
Speaker 2: end two depending on the day, I've got Eric Ahl
Speaker 2: and Jatavian Sanders alternating between tight end three of this class,
Speaker 2: but the tight end two per consensus of this class.
Speaker 2: Jatavian Sanders thor what do you think about him? I mean,
Speaker 2: I think we're both going to be in agreement that
Speaker 2: he is going to be cashing his NFL paychecks based
Speaker 2: off of his receipt receiving utility right.
Speaker 3: And is receiving utility alone. Uh.
Speaker 4: We we talked about some tight ends that that can
Speaker 4: block that is not Datavian Sanders. He will not be
Speaker 4: asked to sit back and block when when his team
Speaker 4: is outpassing, Ditavian Sanders will be on a.
Speaker 3: Route you don't want him back blocking. You can't trust
Speaker 3: him with that.
Speaker 4: He's very interesting as a receiver and this goes into
Speaker 4: the value that he's going to provide to the NFL.
Speaker 3: He Sanders right now?
Speaker 4: For me, is that dude that I alluded to earlier
Speaker 4: that is holding on by his fingertips to tight end three.
Speaker 4: I go back and forth between him and Awe making
Speaker 4: the case for either of them. But that's where he's
Speaker 4: at with me. Our buddy Ben from Kansas State is
Speaker 4: my tight end two with the ball in yours as well,
Speaker 4: deep bro. But yeah, that's where we get into this discussion.
Speaker 4: Sanders is greatly disappointed with his testing, and that's that
Speaker 4: becomes problematic when you think about the utility to the NFL.
Speaker 4: People out there are wondering, like, you know, oh, I
Speaker 4: thought it was Bowers to one of the bullet and
Speaker 4: then Sanders he two with the ball and then everybody else.
Speaker 4: This is why you've seen Sanders start to drop a
Speaker 4: little bit, uh six foot four, two forty five, so
Speaker 4: a little bit.
Speaker 3: On the smaller side.
Speaker 4: And then the rascore that he that he put up
Speaker 4: overall five seven to three, which is a fifty seven
Speaker 4: percentile size. You know, the testing adjusted athlete is not great.
Speaker 4: If your utility as the tight it's just going to
Speaker 4: be the pass catcher guy. What you were looking for
Speaker 4: is for that guy to be the athletic Marvel and Jatavian.
Speaker 4: Sanders did not prove that. He tested at both the
Speaker 4: combine and the pro tain and was not able to
Speaker 4: improve that score any He's the guy that they put
Speaker 4: in the slot and then you're gonna have this stuff
Speaker 4: of you want him to be testing the seam and
Speaker 4: you can do that.
Speaker 3: We've seen that on film.
Speaker 4: In fact, Quinn Ewers in the Texas passing offense appeared
Speaker 4: to prefer him to going to a Donna Mitchell, the
Speaker 4: other you know, sort of big receiver that was out there.
Speaker 3: Xavier Worthy got most of the targets.
Speaker 4: But again, like you know, to a man, the Texas
Speaker 4: quarterbacks prefer, you know, appear to prefer throwing to Jatavian
Speaker 4: Sanders over Donna Mitchell, who some people think is the
Speaker 4: first round receiver.
Speaker 3: But my notes on Sanders.
Speaker 4: Athletic catch first tight end, and the athletic part, maybe
Speaker 4: you start to question a little bit after the testing.
Speaker 4: But catch first tight end, who could be a problem
Speaker 4: down the scene in the NFL. He has plenty of
Speaker 4: experience playing in line in college. But I think you know,
Speaker 4: at least don't want him there if he's gonna be
Speaker 4: asked to block it all and even if he's gonna
Speaker 4: get chipped on the route where you know you're gonna Projackie,
Speaker 4: you're gonna get hit off the line. Now we're gonna
Speaker 4: put him into the route. He could get jarred by
Speaker 4: that power edge where it could screw up the timing
Speaker 4: if it's like a timing route. So that's something you
Speaker 4: would have to think about. For me, he would mostly
Speaker 4: be in the slot or else you could move him
Speaker 4: around the formation. I'm not sure how much I'd have
Speaker 4: him in line there, but he has on film. I'm
Speaker 4: talking about speed, acceleration, and agility to become a better
Speaker 4: pass catching tight end in the NFL. I like his
Speaker 4: balance when he's out on the routes. I like his
Speaker 4: body control. He gets into that route, into his route quickly,
Speaker 4: and then he knows what he's doing from there. Again,
Speaker 4: will threaten that team very quickly. High conversion rate in
Speaker 4: contested scenarios, which is I think the thing that you
Speaker 4: like about that in the NFL, or at least it
Speaker 4: can help you explain away like the thing of the
Speaker 4: lack of athletic testing. Well, we know that he can
Speaker 4: make the contested catches against good defenders in at least
Speaker 4: in college right high into the Big twelve. Texas played
Speaker 4: some good last year. Early on the season they played
Speaker 4: Alabama obviously, later on they had the high end opponents
Speaker 4: when they were in the college football playoff, and so
Speaker 4: you like his ability to make those contested catches when
Speaker 4: he's in those situations, even down the field. He's not
Speaker 4: much of a tackle breaker with that ball in his hands.
Speaker 4: There's other guys in this class that you would prefer
Speaker 4: in terms of that. But if here's one thing that
Speaker 4: I do like about it, if you hit it's sort
Speaker 4: of like you know, like when we talk about say,
Speaker 4: like difference between after the catch, like Marvin Harrison Junior
Speaker 4: for instance, against like Roma Dunze, like Roma Dunese. It's
Speaker 4: or my league neighbors, right like, they do it in
Speaker 4: different ways. But Harrison Junior is still able to generate
Speaker 4: the yards after the catch, but it's just in a different,
Speaker 4: maybe less flashy way than those other two guys, where
Speaker 4: it's you you hit Harrison on the hands. He's so
Speaker 4: good at transitioning immediately to being the runner. And then
Speaker 4: it's with the athleticism. He'll scot forward for six yards
Speaker 4: in a blank. Then he's probably going down. He's not
Speaker 4: looking to break the tackle or necessarily evade. It's it's
Speaker 4: get that the yards really quickly, and it's so fluid
Speaker 4: and it happens so fast. It doesn't manifest in the
Speaker 4: numbers until you look at the aggregate yards after the catch.
Speaker 4: For me, that is more of like what as Sanders is.
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not evoking Marvin Harrison Junior at all
Speaker 4: with regards to that. Outside of that one little thing
Speaker 4: of like he catches it extremely fluidly turns into being
Speaker 4: the runner and then he'll squirt up field. But it's
Speaker 4: he is not going to be like the tank in
Speaker 4: the open field, like the Benson, not where it's like now,
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you know he has the vision
Speaker 4: and he can make you miss, but he'll also run
Speaker 4: you over into That's that's not Jatavian Sanders. He's never
Speaker 4: gonna be the good blocker he can. You'll see every
Speaker 4: now and again on his film where he's picking off
Speaker 4: the smart defender in space and then he can sort
Speaker 4: of wash over him with the with the length that
Speaker 4: he has and some footwork.
Speaker 3: But every time you saw him get matched up against
Speaker 3: a power.
Speaker 4: Edge, the guy was like, all right, get out of here,
Speaker 4: and then it's like I'm gonna go about my day
Speaker 4: now after they threw him aside. My comfort to Tavian Sanders,
Speaker 4: I think if he gets to where you want him
Speaker 4: to be when you are selecting him. I think it's
Speaker 4: a John who Smith type of a thing. That's the
Speaker 4: exact thing that you're looking for in the NFL. So
Speaker 4: that's my comfort. Jetavian Sanders, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I agree with so much that you laid out there, man,
Speaker 2: And to your point, he's not a train in the
Speaker 2: open field. He's not a tackle breaker. I think he's
Speaker 2: more of an upright runner. He's not an overwhelming force.
Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking about a player that only forced
Speaker 2: eleven misstackles over his final two seasons. Can he generate
Speaker 2: yak with his speed?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Is he going to break up a ton of tackles?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I think the high the good points of his game
Speaker 2: where we talked about, like the receiving utility being how
Speaker 2: he's gonna punch his checks is you do see the
Speaker 2: easy and immediate speed to get down the seam, and
Speaker 2: you do see like when he's asked on those seam
Speaker 2: shots to catch balls in traffic. You talked about his
Speaker 2: hands thor like fantastic. I mean zero drops in his
Speaker 2: final season in college, fifty three point six percent contested
Speaker 2: catch rate, Like those things will translate.
Speaker 1: But overall, I just felt like.
Speaker 2: I walked away from watching Jatavian's film and really were
Speaker 2: I was expecting more, Man, I was expecting more as
Speaker 2: far as the receiver.
Speaker 1: I was expecting more after the catch, and I just
Speaker 1: didn't get it. Man.
Speaker 2: It's like his analytical profile is pretty good. Like over
Speaker 2: the last two years, twenty second and seventeenth in yards
Speaker 2: per route run PFF receiving grade, he's eighteenth and thirteenth. Now,
Speaker 2: the yack per reception didn't pop up until last year,
Speaker 2: but he was fourteenth in that. So there are things
Speaker 2: to like. And my comp people are gonna hate. But
Speaker 2: if you look at his size, if you look at
Speaker 2: his testing, and you look at his skill set, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go a little bit in the wayback machine here
Speaker 2: for Jatavian Sanders, who measured in at six three two
Speaker 2: forty five. The guy i'm comping him to six three
Speaker 2: two forty five, he ran a four to six nine
Speaker 2: forty yard dash.
Speaker 1: Oh look at that.
Speaker 2: My comp ran a four six nine. You're looking at
Speaker 2: some of the other metrics and we're gonna like talk about, okay,
Speaker 2: was twenty yard shuttle?
Speaker 1: Was okay?
Speaker 2: Actually my comp ran his twenty yard shuttle and showed
Speaker 2: more short area burst than even Jatavian Sanders did. My
Speaker 2: comp for him is Charles Clay, and people might hate
Speaker 2: that because they're gonna look at the totality of Charles
Speaker 2: Clay's career and they're gonna say, dude, you need to
Speaker 2: put respect on Jatavian's name, and it's like, okay, Charles
Speaker 2: Clay was also a number one, number two receiving utility
Speaker 2: tight end on multiple bad Bills teams. He also dealt
Speaker 2: with a lot of injuries, so we could talk about
Speaker 2: where his stats would have been if he could have
Speaker 2: stayed healthy.
Speaker 1: But people are gonna hate the comp. But that's who
Speaker 1: I see.
Speaker 4: You want to watch him thor Yeah, I can see
Speaker 4: that for sure, and we're not trying to crap Onjatavian Sanders.
Speaker 1: It's more realistic, man.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Again, like coming in, you know, it's with the quarterback class.
Speaker 4: It was you know, Caleb Williams one, and then Drake
Speaker 4: may was the quarterback two. Coming in with a ball,
Speaker 4: and it's like responding to some of the narratives coming
Speaker 4: in where it's we're trying to give you a more
Speaker 4: realistic idea, at least of how we assessed the player,
Speaker 4: and I think that this it's more of a reflection
Speaker 4: of reality with that, And I think if were to
Speaker 4: go be the third or the fourth tight end off
Speaker 4: the board, I think that's a more realistic assessment. Also
Speaker 4: from the NFL's perspective of the utility that you're actually
Speaker 4: going to get from him. It's just not the thing.
Speaker 4: This isn't a guarantee, right Like it's a one phase
Speaker 4: player and you have to understand in that phase what
Speaker 4: he can do and what he cannot.
Speaker 3: So just trying to give the realistic expectations.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and just to throw some more sauce on this man.
Speaker 2: Charles Clay had ten years.
Speaker 1: In the NFL.
Speaker 2: If unless my counting abilities are failing me, no excuse me.
Speaker 2: Nine years in the NFL, had five seasons of at
Speaker 2: least five hundred and twenty eight receiving yards or at
Speaker 2: least seventy four targets. So putting respect on his name, man,
Speaker 2: I think if we get that type of utility out
Speaker 2: of Jatavian Sanders from a fantasy in real life NFL standpoint.
Speaker 1: We'll be happy.
Speaker 2: But I don't see the ceiling that some project for
Speaker 2: him onto the tight end one of this class. The
Speaker 2: guys were worn the crown for multiple years. I mean,
Speaker 2: everybody's just kind of like crowned him the the prints
Speaker 2: tight end of this class. And it's not wrong. Baby
Speaker 2: Rock Bowers Thor I love his game. He's a steamroller.
Speaker 2: He I mean, he's a guy you just basically like
Speaker 2: he's a weapon. He's an offensive weapon. You put the
Speaker 2: ball in his freaking hands and just ask him to
Speaker 2: go out there and just demolish people, and he can
Speaker 2: absolutely do that.
Speaker 1: Man, What are your thoughts on Brock Bowers?
Speaker 2: Who is I know he's my tight end one of
Speaker 2: this class and you're tight end one of this class,
Speaker 2: clear tight end ones in a tier by themself.
Speaker 1: What do you think about Bowers?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: You know, like and guys out there listening like like
Speaker 4: you know, like Dee Brow and I. With this these shows,
Speaker 4: we labor to go and talk about the deeper guys
Speaker 4: that you haven't heard as much about it. Maybe guys
Speaker 4: that could give you an edge in your fantasy leagues
Speaker 4: if you're draft in early on and some of those
Speaker 4: best ball formats, and then with these higher guys, we
Speaker 4: know that you guys have heard about these guys. All
Speaker 4: spring Lonk with and of course Bauers is notable with that.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna respond more because you guys know about Bowers
Speaker 4: a game. You've seen him now for three years at Georgia.
Speaker 4: Two of those years he led Georgia in receiving yards.
Speaker 4: Two of those years Georgia won the national title. He
Speaker 4: was an integral part of that. You see the Swiss
Speaker 4: army stuff. More responding to the sort of the idea
Speaker 4: around him. I don't think of Bowers as a tight end,
Speaker 4: and I don't think that it's you know, when you're
Speaker 4: thinking about him, I don't think that that's informative to
Speaker 4: think about. It's like, really it should be the other
Speaker 4: guys we talk about is their class, and then Bauers
Speaker 4: is something into of hisself. I know some people get
Speaker 4: annoyed with the phrase offensive weapon. If you have another
Speaker 4: pet phrase that you prefer in your head, just put
Speaker 4: him in that category. He's different than these other guys.
Speaker 4: He's the pass catcher weapon fell at and you can
Speaker 4: move him around and do all this different stuff. Kirby
Speaker 4: Smart said, if they had used Brock Bauers at running
Speaker 4: back these last couple of years, he would have also
Speaker 4: been the best running back on the roster. He certainly
Speaker 4: was the best pass catcher as you could see, and
Speaker 4: by the numbers and everything like that. Georgia line him
Speaker 4: up everywhere in line slot, outside, in the backfield.
Speaker 3: They did Deebo.
Speaker 4: Samuel tight end stuff with him where it's like, okay, Brock,
Speaker 4: you come into the backfield handed ball or on the
Speaker 4: end around what will so you get that utility from
Speaker 4: him as well. The mandate is just get the ball
Speaker 4: in Brock Bowers' hands. He will do stuff. He will
Speaker 4: start breaking tackles. He has a very good vision in
Speaker 4: the open field. The speed, change of direction or both elite.
Speaker 4: The skill as a receiver is absolutely ludicrous. The guy
Speaker 4: does not drop balls. Even on the charting when it
Speaker 4: was like a drop, you go and look at that,
Speaker 4: It's like it feels like maybe the charter just wanted
Speaker 4: to give him a drop just to say if he
Speaker 4: had one. It's like that catch would have like on
Speaker 4: anyone else they I don't think they would have charted
Speaker 4: that as catcha ball and given him a drop on that.
Speaker 3: I did not. Really you don't see concentration drops that
Speaker 3: brought powers.
Speaker 4: There is no problem with him engaging like and also
Speaker 4: as a blocker. We don't talk him as much about
Speaker 4: it because you're rarely going to keep him back for
Speaker 4: blocking outside of on running concepts.
Speaker 3: But he's good.
Speaker 4: I mean like he's good in terms of the effort
Speaker 4: on every play. He will not skirt you on effort
Speaker 4: on any any given con he gets after it as
Speaker 4: a blocker. Of course, as the receiver, and he's so
Speaker 4: dangerous with that becomes the tackle breaking machine with speed
Speaker 4: when he has that ball in his hands, that aspect
Speaker 4: of his game debro and I'll evoke him again. It
Speaker 4: reminds me from the last class of Laporta when we
Speaker 4: talked about after. It's like, yeah, before the catch, he
Speaker 4: has what he needs to get that ball open up
Speaker 4: the window for the quarterback, so we know in the
Speaker 4: NFL he's going to get a bunch of targets. But
Speaker 4: it's like after he has the ball in his hands,
Speaker 4: that's where the fun begins and he turns up field
Speaker 4: because he has both the speed, but then he also
Speaker 4: has the agility, so it's both. If he needs to,
Speaker 4: he'll evade, but it's also the thing, probably more importantly
Speaker 4: in this regard of he forces off angle tackle attempts
Speaker 4: way way more than a tight end should be able
Speaker 4: to do or that we traditionally think of.
Speaker 3: And that was the same with Laporta. Well. The manifestation
Speaker 3: of that is both the guys have the power to
Speaker 3: get through the.
Speaker 4: Arm tackle attempts. So then that's how you see these
Speaker 4: tackle attempts just start to pile up. That's where he
Speaker 4: gets all these different yak yardage. And then he also
Speaker 4: has that speed in the athleticism to threaten how calls
Speaker 4: in certain scenarios where he gets out into open grass. Again,
Speaker 4: like the effort as a blocker, he's an effort player.
Speaker 4: Only nippicks you can toss on him undersized, He's not
Speaker 4: an elite accelerator. I don't want to I don't want
Speaker 4: to like harp on that too much because I don't
Speaker 4: have any problem with that.
Speaker 3: But like when you're thinking of like the.
Speaker 4: High high end athletes at this position, that that was
Speaker 4: just a little bit of that. There is some some
Speaker 4: rebuilding of speed that needs to occur when he's coming
Speaker 4: out of the breaks and he gets into a little
Speaker 4: bit more contested situations than you would otherwise think, although
Speaker 4: he's great in those situations. Again, like you put the
Speaker 4: ball in his sketch and he's coming down with it,
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden it's it's the Yax stuff,
Speaker 4: Dee Bry. I hate to keep evoking Iowa tight Ends.
Speaker 4: Actually I love it, Mike at all.
Speaker 3: At all. I love it so much.
Speaker 4: Tight End you is George Kittles say we were getting
Speaker 4: the second coming at George Kittle with this player and
Speaker 4: a player also that I like the advocation of this
Speaker 4: because the type of staff that San Francisco forty nine
Speaker 4: ers have on offense, this is the dude you'd love
Speaker 4: because again it's like you have the Kittle stuff, and
Speaker 4: then there's like the little bit extra of the Deebo
Speaker 4: kind of utility of we can do stuff. You don't
Speaker 4: see what tight ends. The last thing I'll say about
Speaker 4: this de Bro, this is just a general comment to
Speaker 4: the narrative about Boers you hear out there, particularly Visavi
Speaker 4: the Jets. You've heard this argument made of like Jets
Speaker 4: are sitting at ten and it's like, well, you know,
Speaker 4: it'd be great to add Bauers to Aaron Rodgers, but
Speaker 4: in the current way that the NFL does it with
Speaker 4: the slots for the different picks and then the franchise
Speaker 4: tag when you're done with the contract. There's been the
Speaker 4: argument of I don't know if you can justify taking
Speaker 4: a tight end at number ten because the franchise tag
Speaker 4: is this, and then if you take them at ten,
Speaker 4: it starts out with this. Again, I don't think that
Speaker 4: that is the correct way to see Bauers of like
Speaker 4: tight end, he is a pass catcher, offensive weapon, fell
Speaker 4: who immediately is going to be for your team, one
Speaker 4: of the top couple options in terms of of who
Speaker 4: you're getting the ball to there. I think you in
Speaker 4: covert that, or at least when I think about it,
Speaker 4: I think about it from the other way of Okay,
Speaker 4: but sure with this the draft slot itself, like I
Speaker 4: understand that, and then against what the franchise tague would be.
Speaker 4: But once you get done with that rookie contract, do
Speaker 4: you know the kind of friggin steel you would get
Speaker 4: with this guy if it's just oh, we're going to
Speaker 4: be negotiating with, you know, using the paradigm of tight
Speaker 4: end contracts, or if it's just okay, well, franchise.
Speaker 3: Tag you because his utility.
Speaker 4: Again, it's more this guy you're drafting to be your
Speaker 4: number two option in the passing game or maybe even
Speaker 4: on some teams he would be the number one in
Speaker 4: the NFL. But like ideally you would have a good
Speaker 4: receiver and then you have Bowers, and then all the
Speaker 4: other guys on your offense are going to benefit from
Speaker 4: the spacing that you get from those guys. The more
Speaker 4: space you get Bauers, the more damage he is going
Speaker 4: to reek in the open field for the after the
Speaker 4: cat stuff that we were just talking about. That's how
Speaker 4: I think you need to think of Bowers. I absolutely
Speaker 4: around ten anywhere around there. To me, he is a
Speaker 4: perfectly acceptable value. Love him, al and fantasy players are
Speaker 4: are going to be all over Brock Bowers for years
Speaker 4: and years and years and years.
Speaker 1: As they should.
Speaker 2: Man, and anybody who's got a problem with us talking
Speaker 2: about him as an officeive weapon at me, I really
Speaker 2: don't care because that's the way he should be talked about,
Speaker 2: because that's what he is.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: I mean to put more respect on his name, and
Speaker 2: not that we've you know, shaded him so far, but
Speaker 2: the analytical profile is it's beautiful. Like he's never finished
Speaker 2: lower than third in yards per route run in any
Speaker 2: season over the last three years. Since that same span
Speaker 2: so since twenty twenty one, amongst all tight ends with
Speaker 2: at least twenty five man coverage targets, he ranks twelfth
Speaker 2: in yards per route run, ahead of Michael Mayer. His
Speaker 2: his drops he talked about like his hands, fantastic four
Speaker 2: point four percent drop rate, only eight drops across three seasons.
Speaker 1: The guy is just a monster. He's a monster.
Speaker 2: He forced the second most mistackles amongst all tight ends
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three tour Like, the guy is a monster,
Speaker 2: and he is very deserving and should be taught at
Speaker 2: exactly in the conversations that he is being talked about
Speaker 2: as a top twelve player in this class, and he
Speaker 2: is deserving of a top twelve selection in this NFL
Speaker 2: draft class.
Speaker 3: So I'm not even gonna hear de bro one other
Speaker 3: thing that I would toss out there.
Speaker 4: Last season, so he brock Bauers got injured during that season.
Speaker 4: Most players in that situation you're gonna start milking out
Speaker 4: that you're looking for the NFL. He rushed back so
Speaker 4: he could play at the end of that season, and
Speaker 4: it was not one hundred percent at all.
Speaker 3: This is a tough kid.
Speaker 4: He does not want to get taken off the like
Speaker 4: he didn't want to miss the games initially. In fact,
Speaker 4: he rushed back so fast in the first game where
Speaker 4: he comes back in November. It was basically so the
Speaker 4: coaching staff just could see like where he was at right,
Speaker 4: and they used him a bit just like. And then
Speaker 4: the last regular season game, the coaching staff elected like,
Speaker 4: let's let's wrest him for this game because they didn't
Speaker 4: need it, and then going into the SEC title game
Speaker 4: because that's where we were gonna need him. Obviously, Alabama
Speaker 4: ended up overcoming Georgia in the game. If Georgia had
Speaker 4: won that game and gone to the playoff, that's where
Speaker 4: now we're It doesn't matter what percentage you were at Brock,
Speaker 4: you need to be our dude in the playoffs. That's
Speaker 4: how we're gonna be generating the offense. Carson back, he
Speaker 4: is going to be looking at you. But I just
Speaker 4: had to shout out the toughness of that kid too.
Speaker 4: This is not a prima donna guy. This is also
Speaker 4: the lunch pail dude who absolutely will play hurt.
Speaker 2: He's a beast man. I love every part of his game.
Speaker 2: He's going to be an elite option at the tight
Speaker 2: end position for years to come, and you'll love to
Speaker 2: see him. Man, This tight end class really needs it,
Speaker 2: and brock Bauer is going to deliver the goods.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: But if anybody's out there trying to get a jump
Speaker 2: on rookie dynasty drafts right now, head over to fantasypros
Speaker 2: dot com slash simulator use our Dynasty Rookie Draft simulator.
Speaker 1: It's fantastic. I'm going to be doing.
Speaker 2: Rookie drafts both on X so look for that. If
Speaker 2: you're not following me, please do, and as well as
Speaker 2: in our discord for Fantasy pros to get signed up,
Speaker 2: get into the discord today. Tons of stuff coming down
Speaker 2: the pipeline for Fantasy pros. Thor's got all of his
Speaker 2: positional primers that are all live right now. Like, Thor,
Speaker 2: where are you at with this right now?
Speaker 1: Man? Like, I know you're working on what wide receivers
Speaker 1: dropping next?
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, wide receivers drop well on the site.
Speaker 4: I think the next one coming is we're doing the
Speaker 4: infrastructure positions on the defense. But I just turned in yesterday,
Speaker 4: so those are going to be dropping on the site. Interior,
Speaker 4: defensive lineman and edge later this week. Defensive backs coming out,
Speaker 4: but also The big one is the wide receivers, because
Speaker 4: this is very obviously the top, very good, but also
Speaker 4: extremely deep receiver class. So we deep dive that one,
Speaker 4: get into the profiles at twenty five guys or so
Speaker 4: and try to lay out the case of like, this
Speaker 4: is the utility they're going to provide to the NFL.
Speaker 4: Is the utility they could potentially provide to you guys
Speaker 4: as fantasy players and people that have been listening to
Speaker 4: us deep bro they know we don't like our opinions
Speaker 4: on these, just our opinions, right, which are invariably oftentimes
Speaker 4: different than what the contents is, particularly when you get past,
Speaker 4: say the brock Bauers and then you get a little
Speaker 4: bit lower. This is where for fantasy players out there,
Speaker 4: you can get the edge on your competition and then
Speaker 4: time take guys from them that are at values where
Speaker 4: they should not be. Last year, if people are listening
Speaker 4: to us at this time, they would have gotten pookin
Speaker 4: Nakua for free, they would have gotten Tanked Dell for
Speaker 4: dang near free. And that's what we're doing with some
Speaker 4: of these rankings as well. So there's guys in this
Speaker 4: receiver class where you're gonna be able to jump on
Speaker 4: them early and then leverage that against your competition if
Speaker 4: you're in a dynasty league for years and years and years.
Speaker 4: So that's coming out as well. And Deebra, are we
Speaker 4: I don't know if we have been cleared to do this,
Speaker 4: so maybe in post production they're gonna have to yank.
Speaker 4: Can we are we able to announce the the the
Speaker 4: augmentation to our live draft offerings this year?
Speaker 2: Now, let's go yellow baby, go ahead, tell the people
Speaker 2: will be got going coming up here. I mean, let's
Speaker 2: give them an al teaser because we're gonna have a
Speaker 2: ton of stuff that we're not even announcing here, but
Speaker 2: the work go ahead, It's all.
Speaker 4: You, baby. Not only are we doing the day one
Speaker 4: live draft show, which is blowout extravaganzas at the company
Speaker 4: where we have the whole coterie of analysts coming in,
Speaker 4: we hit you guys from all different perspective. Is the
Speaker 4: perspective of the draft as it's going in all the
Speaker 4: context with that, but then the fantasy, the dynasty implications,
Speaker 4: deep diving the rosters. Where is this twoe gonna fit
Speaker 4: in right away? What is the long term fit? What
Speaker 4: is the offensive system that he's going into and hitting
Speaker 4: all that suff But not only are we doing that
Speaker 4: this year, we are also adding a Day two live
Speaker 4: show with all your friends, all the boys, and we
Speaker 4: will also have special guests coming on that We're lining up.
Speaker 3: That part of it.
Speaker 4: I know I probably can't get into, but I just
Speaker 4: I had to tell everyone. We will have a Day
Speaker 4: two live show on Friday, So consider that when you're
Speaker 4: thinking about your last Friday night of a bro we
Speaker 4: will be here and would love to be your companion
Speaker 4: show for that night.
Speaker 2: We are the second screen experience for the NFL Draft.
Speaker 2: We're gonna cover all things and stuff because look, this
Speaker 2: is where it's ad man. We're covering this for fantasy.
Speaker 2: We're trying to give you the intel that you need
Speaker 2: to dominate leagues and as well as get research on
Speaker 2: this class man. There's a mad man. He's riding up
Speaker 2: interior defensive prospects and stuff. So go check out his
Speaker 2: work on the side for Thor and myself.
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week. Baby, we're out of here.
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