Speaker 1: This is Let's be clear with Shannon Doherty. Hi guys,
Speaker 1: this is let's be clear with Shannon Doherty. And today
Speaker 1: I have on what's probably my absolute favorite ex boyfriend
Speaker 1: of all time, Rob Wise.
Speaker 2: That's very sweet, thank you.
Speaker 3: It's true though, You're my favorite really. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I always say that you were like the one person
Speaker 1: I dated that was truly a good guy and smart
Speaker 1: and funny and talented creative. You inspired me a lot.
Speaker 1: And we were together for a freaking long time, seven
Speaker 1: and a half years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think every.
Speaker 4: Decade it goes up another half year we were together.
Speaker 4: I think you're like, we were together eight years, you
Speaker 4: know now, well, you know I feel the same way
Speaker 4: about you. It's it's kind of crazy, you know, that's
Speaker 4: so much time past and how young we were, and
Speaker 4: you know, we're like the.
Speaker 3: Kids there were kids.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, how many real relationships does
Speaker 4: somebody get in their lifetime, you know? I mean, I
Speaker 4: mean I've had a handful, You've had a handful. They're
Speaker 4: obviously big chapters, you know, and each one of those
Speaker 4: chapters teaches you something about life, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
Speaker 3: But no, Yeah, but you.
Speaker 1: Were the one that I don't like even my parents
Speaker 1: liked you sometimes most of the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were they were dope.
Speaker 4: I love them, but you know, like they were as
Speaker 4: happy as you were happy, you know what I mean,
Speaker 4: Like if you were kind of like I'm out of here,
Speaker 4: they were carrying the boxes.
Speaker 2: You so. But I always like your.
Speaker 4: Dad your mom's Your mom's a little more like if
Speaker 4: I remember correctly, she was more like the Mama Bear tiger.
Speaker 4: She was quicker to be like that. Your dad was
Speaker 4: always chill, yes, Like I always had a good vibe
Speaker 4: with Tom. He was a solid cat.
Speaker 2: A good soul, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm gonna try to get you to cry,
Speaker 4: like five minutes into your own podcast.
Speaker 1: I want to do it today. Yeah, my mom definitely
Speaker 1: Mama Bear. But also do you remember when we, like
Speaker 1: my mom and I came, we painted the house of course,
Speaker 1: like she loved doing like she and she wanted to
Speaker 1: see your you know, reaction, and she was excited.
Speaker 3: You guys got along really well.
Speaker 2: No. I really appreciate Rosa.
Speaker 4: You know, she's a really really strong person given all
Speaker 4: the things she's been through, you know what I mean,
Speaker 4: she a lot heaped on so of you.
Speaker 2: You know, you come from a very strong.
Speaker 4: Stock of people. Yeah, I don't think people. I think
Speaker 4: people know, like people always knew you were strong, super vocal, tough,
Speaker 4: but I don't think they necessarily understood the forty two dude,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean? And how good you guys
Speaker 4: are at obstacles.
Speaker 3: So we are pretty good at obstacles.
Speaker 1: Will either jump over it or just plow straight through it,
Speaker 1: regardless of how much we get hurt.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: The older I get, I'm sure I just want to
Speaker 4: ignore it, you know what I mean. I'm like, wait, what,
Speaker 4: I didn't even see that and I didn't notice that
Speaker 4: it was happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think I'm now way more aware of everything, like
Speaker 1: with age and but I but I avoid the obstacles instead.
Speaker 3: Of plowing through.
Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing.
Speaker 3: It's just what's the point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just how much conflict in one person deal with?
Speaker 2: You know. It's like, I mean, I guess a lot,
Speaker 2: a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I think we met in ninety four.
Speaker 4: I want to say, well, it's kind of crazy actually,
Speaker 4: because that's not fully accurate ninety three. It's it's kind
Speaker 4: of it's a little bit more like I want to
Speaker 4: say kind of like fortuitous, like cosmic y because I
Speaker 4: came out on vacation in the early nineties, like ninety one.
Speaker 2: It had to be like ninety one. And again I
Speaker 2: was very young.
Speaker 4: I was like fourteen or twelve whatever it was, and
Speaker 4: that wasn't well. But I was at Ball one and
Speaker 4: I was there with a group of guys and I
Speaker 4: met you and we had this vibe. I and at
Speaker 4: the time nine o two and zero had just started airing.
Speaker 2: I knew who you were, you know. I went back home.
Speaker 2: I was like watching that shit, I'm my yead. It
Speaker 2: was my girl from Ball one. You know. We had
Speaker 2: a little vibe.
Speaker 4: Then I made amongst friends, which was you know, I
Speaker 4: was already in the process of wanting to go into
Speaker 4: the film business, so I'd been studying film at Parsons,
Speaker 4: so I already knew I was going to do that.
Speaker 4: But I think that particular trip in general and the
Speaker 4: culture of LA at that time and the business and
Speaker 4: the people I met was really inspiring to me. Present
Speaker 4: company included and then made the movie Went to Sundance.
Speaker 4: Was like successful, moved to LA and then you knew people.
Speaker 2: I knew people. I don't really mention anymore. But you
Speaker 2: knew people I.
Speaker 4: Knew, and somehow you were like you said to that person, like,
Speaker 4: oh you know that guy who made that movie, and
Speaker 4: they were like, yeah, that's the guy you met at
Speaker 4: ball one light.
Speaker 2: Two years ago.
Speaker 4: You were married at the time, and then we just
Speaker 4: kind of started to see each other around, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean, I think, and that was around probably
Speaker 4: ninety four and then yeah, we started dating.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so what I remember is, I mean.
Speaker 4: Dating back then was different, by the way, and if
Speaker 4: we're going to call it out, which called it out.
Speaker 4: Dating back then was like you went and hung out
Speaker 4: somebody if you liked them. You were just like in
Speaker 4: a thing, you know, and immediately which is it was
Speaker 4: just like cool, I'm gonna go get my shit, I'll
Speaker 4: be back here and I'll just live here, you know,
Speaker 4: or vice versa, which just basically was with us.
Speaker 1: I mean it was, yeah, you know, like I left
Speaker 1: the first husband and we'd been I guess separated for
Speaker 1: I don't know a couple of months or six months
Speaker 1: something like that. And are you know at that time
Speaker 1: mutual friend. Yeah, brought you came over.
Speaker 2: Yes, you have no right exactly.
Speaker 4: You guys had like I remember drinking, like you know,
Speaker 4: I was back then. I drank obviously, you know, and
Speaker 4: I was like twenty five or something. I think we
Speaker 4: would drinking jack Dang. I was probably playing like you
Speaker 4: were drinking games. Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we Yeah, we hooked up and stayed together for
Speaker 1: ten years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like nine and a half years. It
Speaker 2: was a nine and a half year of relationship.
Speaker 3: It was seven and a half years that we were
Speaker 3: together there.
Speaker 2: No, it was.
Speaker 4: Definitely seven years because you were only like twenty two
Speaker 4: at the time. It was right before your twenty third birthday,
Speaker 4: so and I'm four years old, so I was twenty six. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it was like twenty three twenty seven was our age thing.
Speaker 4: And I think we would we did that until the
Speaker 4: thirties or something on my thirties.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a heavy duty seven years.
Speaker 1: I mean that's a long I think for for that
Speaker 1: time time period with me on nine o two now,
Speaker 1: then getting fired from nine oh and dealing with that
Speaker 1: feeling you coming out with monks friends and having a
Speaker 1: you know, bungalow at Universal and.
Speaker 4: Yeah that I never went to you evere riddled with insecurity.
Speaker 4: I had so much fear I couldn't pull a trigger
Speaker 4: on another thing, Like if I didn't go to therapy,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't be in this business now, like if I
Speaker 4: didn't like get to the bottom of mice.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I think like the two of us were just like
Speaker 4: hiding out together for a while, you know, I.
Speaker 3: Think we were. Although you wrote milk Bar.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I wasn't like and I wasn't out of
Speaker 2: the business.
Speaker 1: I just remember how roud I was of you because
Speaker 1: it was so good.
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, you know what's crazy is we
Speaker 4: still talk about that project is now it would be.
Speaker 2: Just an epic period piece. But I was functional.
Speaker 4: I don't mean to apply that like like I was
Speaker 4: like withdrawing from the business, but I think I I
Speaker 4: just was having such a hard time acclimating to not
Speaker 4: being a failure, you know what I mean. Like I
Speaker 4: wouldn't say I was like a super successful guy, but
Speaker 4: I definitely wasn't the failure that I felt like I
Speaker 4: was three years before. So for me, that was a
Speaker 4: pretty seismic adjustment to go through. So yeah, but I
Speaker 4: wrote milk Bar and I wrote that while I was
Speaker 4: with you, and I think I was a bomb in
Speaker 4: the iceberg slim thing.
Speaker 2: Together, such a couple of shows, like I was act, you.
Speaker 3: Were in the bradyston Ellis thing.
Speaker 4: I was going to do American Psycho. That's right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean it was, it was. It was a great
Speaker 4: period in the business. I mean, obviously, you know, there
Speaker 4: were a lot of things about the business that weren't
Speaker 4: great also, which we've seen over the last twenty years
Speaker 4: that dissected and take it apart. But creatively, it felt
Speaker 4: like a pretty inspiring time.
Speaker 3: You know, right, Being that young that might have.
Speaker 4: Factored into it. Also, maybe it's less about the period
Speaker 4: of creating in the nineties, but maybe not, because I
Speaker 4: felt like even when you went and did the Kevin's
Speaker 4: Myth thing and how excited I was.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh you should do.
Speaker 4: And I think we watched Clerks together, and it was
Speaker 4: like people were inspired, like indies would just starting to
Speaker 4: really crank up. Sun Dance was new, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, that kind of festival vibe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we went to the What the Spirit
Speaker 1: Awards together, we did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you were the one.
Speaker 1: Who introduced me to the whole like independent film world thing.
Speaker 1: You were like, listen, it doesn't matter if you got
Speaker 1: fired off, not.
Speaker 4: Didn't like me anyway, because like I just fell between
Speaker 4: a crack man. That movie was like my mashup of
Speaker 4: like nine O two and zero meets Goodfellas, right, so
Speaker 4: it was like pretty kids in Long Island acting like gangsters.
Speaker 4: So indie purists, even though it was a super indie film,
Speaker 4: it had commercial sensibility, so indie people were probably like, no,
Speaker 4: this guy, he's he's not an artist or he's not
Speaker 4: high art enough, and commercial world, the commercial world was
Speaker 4: more apt to accept me into. But I want it
Speaker 4: to be you know, artsy, I think you know. So henceforth,
Speaker 4: how we wound up with that Spirit Awards, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 1: We have a lot of history and again in a
Speaker 1: very significance.
Speaker 2: I look good, you look really good.
Speaker 4: Look at myself on this thing, but I want to
Speaker 4: make sure my angles are right.
Speaker 3: I'm all right, Yeah, your angles are great.
Speaker 4: Even want you to cut that out because I want
Speaker 4: people to know that you literally are talking to it, dude.
Speaker 4: You know for like twenty some thirty years, who's like
Speaker 4: insanely vein still and old old and vain.
Speaker 3: Old in vain. Yeah, no, you look really good. You
Speaker 3: look good. You'll probably get some dates off.
Speaker 2: This really, Yeah, I just want money, man.
Speaker 1: Obviously we were engaged. Yeah, I love the idea of marriage.
Speaker 1: I believe in that. But after my last yeah, brutal marriage.
Speaker 1: But what it taught me is that a piece of
Speaker 1: paper doesn't really mean anything.
Speaker 2: It doesn't it. I think it's our person. Back in
Speaker 2: the day, people would be like, yeah.
Speaker 4: But it makes you stay, and it makes you fight,
Speaker 4: makes you hard time. And I'm like, I don't want
Speaker 4: to work on like, I just want to work on me,
Speaker 4: Like I have the things that I need to direct
Speaker 4: the energy into. I share a child with somebody, Sasha,
Speaker 4: we need to work on our relationship to benefit.
Speaker 2: Our child, right, because I need to.
Speaker 4: Work on him. With him, I need to work on
Speaker 4: me how I you know, it relates to him and
Speaker 4: his future, me having a girlfriend or a wife, and
Speaker 4: like we're just going like this, it might be just
Speaker 4: a bad fit, you know what I mean. Like I'm
Speaker 4: not working on like, you know, getting like puzzle pieces
Speaker 4: to stick together that don't belong together, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you got to go through divorce and
Speaker 1: you know, you lose half of your stuff and you
Speaker 1: got to it just becomes so complicated that you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, as you know, my parents were married until.
Speaker 3: My dad died.
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, my.
Speaker 1: Mom still wears her wedding band. So I grew up
Speaker 1: with thinking.
Speaker 2: That that's a different time.
Speaker 3: Though it is a different time, and I you know.
Speaker 4: Back when they got married, like you married like your classmates,
Speaker 4: you married somebody like who was down the road from you.
Speaker 4: You know, you didn't get off the block, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean. There was no Instagram, there were no options.
Speaker 4: The world felt so small. And I'm not saying that's
Speaker 4: a good thing either, by the way. I'm not saying
Speaker 4: like you should live a life and go like, oh,
Speaker 4: that was fun, I'm going to go on to the
Speaker 4: next one, you know, even though plenty of people are
Speaker 4: out there doing it. But I think that you know,
Speaker 4: the world feels in some ways a lot smaller, but
Speaker 4: you realize the scale of it, and you know, it's
Speaker 4: probably less likely now that you're going to grind through
Speaker 4: the hard times with somebody. You know, then thirty forty
Speaker 4: years ago people would do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: You know, again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't grind
Speaker 4: through the hard times because obviously you have a family,
Speaker 4: there's a lot at stake, like you're highlighting the divorce
Speaker 4: is a painful process. It's an expensive one. And listen,
Speaker 4: even I wasn't married to my son's mother. That was
Speaker 4: a painful breakup. Breaking up with you.
Speaker 2: We weren't married, that's that was painful. For three years.
Speaker 4: We were together four plus years, and then I think
Speaker 4: did three years on and off. Yeah, Like we wouldn't
Speaker 4: even see us speak to each other for six months,
Speaker 4: running to each other be like, oh you want to
Speaker 4: live together again?
Speaker 2: Okay, Like this's a crazy shit we would do. But
Speaker 2: you know, it's hard to move on from.
Speaker 4: Really really deep, meaningful relationships, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think there's just certain people though, that you
Speaker 1: that you stay attracted to, like your entire life, because
Speaker 1: it goes beyond too, for sure, and it goes beyond
Speaker 1: the physical. It's you know, when two people's brains sort
Speaker 1: of snap together in that sense where they really recognize
Speaker 1: one another and their conversations are always interesting and they
Speaker 1: can challenge each other a little bit. I think that
Speaker 1: that's I don't think it's that easy to find, right,
Speaker 1: so there's always that connection.
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 4: I think that like when you when you really connect
Speaker 4: to people on a soul level you do stay well.
Speaker 4: Even in friendships, there are certain bonds and connections that
Speaker 4: are beyond what is tangible to us that we could
Speaker 4: think about in an analytical way. So I agree with that,
Speaker 4: you know, And I don't feel like any relationship I've
Speaker 4: ever had of length was not without like some impact
Speaker 4: in a beneficial way for my life. Like even though
Speaker 4: your thing is fresh right now, you know, relatively over
Speaker 4: the last year, you know, right, But in hindsight, someday
Speaker 4: you'll look at it. You might still see no benefits,
Speaker 4: that's definitely a possibility, but you might see little things
Speaker 4: you learned about you on the way, on the in
Speaker 4: the you know, in the it was eleven years, twelve years,
Speaker 4: you know, you know what.
Speaker 1: You're right, I didn't learn no, I mean I already
Speaker 1: know that I learned something, which is, you know, I
Speaker 1: need to listen to my gut not and not be
Speaker 1: scared of of disrupting things.
Speaker 2: You mean that people's expectations.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, you know, I mean.
Speaker 1: I told you before obviously we started recording. I said
Speaker 1: that like the week before the wedding.
Speaker 2: I got it.
Speaker 4: But but but you know what I spoke to you
Speaker 4: before the wedding too, because he you get something that happened,
Speaker 4: and you like, he went home to his parents of Florida,
Speaker 4: and I think I was like, yo, Shana, I want
Speaker 4: to just chill out, get married, and just like maybe
Speaker 4: just don't create like a whole issue.
Speaker 2: Once I was.
Speaker 4: Like, why didn't you just chill out? Well, I don't
Speaker 4: remember exactly, but what I'm saying is.
Speaker 3: So you're to blame, Okay.
Speaker 4: But I think what I would say, I think what
Speaker 4: I would say is and it's tricky because I want
Speaker 4: to figure out how to articulate what I want to
Speaker 4: say without and like, yes, without being offensive or insulting.
Speaker 4: But if you've made some wrong choices before, right, don't right,
Speaker 4: You don't necessarily know if your instinct's taking you to
Speaker 4: make a bad choice or a good choice. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: there is one lane in which you're instinctively you could
Speaker 4: have set yourself I shouldn't marry this guy, and really
Speaker 4: you'd be runaway bride, right, Like you could have been that,
Speaker 4: and you've been like, oh, you left behind a good guy.
Speaker 4: Then your instincts were obviously right, because if he did
Speaker 4: it before, he's going to do it again. It's a
Speaker 4: patterns like and that doesn't apply to everything in life,
Speaker 4: but it applies to a lot of.
Speaker 2: Things in life, you know. So if you don't like
Speaker 2: this is what he does, it's recidivism.
Speaker 1: But don't you find that interesting that, Like the week
Speaker 1: before we were talking, you told me to just go
Speaker 1: ahead and get mind.
Speaker 2: I don't think it was a week before.
Speaker 4: I think I just remember at some point you and
Speaker 4: I spoke and I was like, like.
Speaker 2: Don't make waves.
Speaker 4: But I think it was more like you guys were
Speaker 4: in some kind of state of conflict and he like,
Speaker 4: you know, ran back to Florida and you're like it's
Speaker 4: a pussy or something like that, you know, And I
Speaker 4: was like, I was like, just chill, man, just chill.
Speaker 2: Just go with it. You know.
Speaker 4: I don't remember the exact scenario, but you know, it's
Speaker 4: your story, man, Yeah, it's your story.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: You could have got with some other dude and you'd
Speaker 4: be like, oh, yeah, I'm go. You know, he's a
Speaker 4: top the pilot and crashed and God forbid, not.
Speaker 2: Gonna wanted to. Anything can happen at anytime. There's just
Speaker 2: no guarantees. That's the thing about relationships. Like I think
Speaker 2: most people probably wake up one day and don't know.
Speaker 4: Who the has been laying next like ten years, they're like,
Speaker 4: who is this guy?
Speaker 2: Who is this girl?
Speaker 3: This person?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Who are they? Like?
Speaker 4: People change, they evolve, like you take your eye off
Speaker 4: the ball for a second, the ball somewhere else, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, and it's like and then even worse is
Speaker 4: like the people who don't even give each other room
Speaker 4: to breathe. They nevitate the eye off the ball, you know,
Speaker 4: Like I know, like couples that are like that, and
Speaker 4: you're just like, holy shit, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's healthier or it feels unhealthy
Speaker 1: because you're having to be so attentive to that relationship
Speaker 1: and to that person that I would imagine that sometimes
Speaker 1: you would lose yourself in.
Speaker 3: It a little bit. I just know.
Speaker 1: Going back to what you were saying about like the
Speaker 1: grind and marriage. For me now, I don't want to
Speaker 1: do like the grind anymore in my life because I
Speaker 1: think it's one of the beautiful things that cancer has
Speaker 1: really taught me is to appreciate the piece, appreciate the
Speaker 1: fact that even though my life is disrupted to a
Speaker 1: certain degree just from cancer and treatments and all of that.
Speaker 1: It has brought me so much knowledge and changed me
Speaker 1: drastically as a human being, changed me into a person
Speaker 1: that now really appreciates calm and appreciates that peace and
Speaker 1: looks at certain situations or certain people, and I now say, like, like,
Speaker 1: that's not worth it. It's not worth my peace of mind.
Speaker 1: It's not worth the disruption of my life. And that's
Speaker 1: not for everyone, right, I mean, obviously, thank god my
Speaker 1: parents were so dedicated to each other and stayed together,
Speaker 1: and they definitely went on a bit of a grind
Speaker 1: throughout their marriage at times, as everyone does. So I
Speaker 1: think it's beautiful that some people can do it. I
Speaker 1: just know that for me, I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean I don't want a relationships.
Speaker 4: Say I would never say that I couldn't do it.
Speaker 4: I don't think that I have ever personally dreamed of
Speaker 4: my wedding day.
Speaker 2: That's just me. Like the commitment to another human, I'm
Speaker 2: totally cool with that.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 4: Like I'm like, I like like, you know, when I'm
Speaker 4: in a relationship, to be in a relationship. When I'm single,
Speaker 4: I like to feel single, you know, Like I try
Speaker 4: to embrace where I'm at. But the idea of marriage
Speaker 4: just always felt like antiquated to me.
Speaker 2: It just did.
Speaker 4: Like my son's mother is the single most we were
Speaker 4: only together. We dated for three years, me and my
Speaker 4: son's mother. She's a single most important woman to me
Speaker 4: on the planet. She is the mother of my child.
Speaker 4: There is no woman that I'm going to date that's
Speaker 4: going to be more important unless I have a kid
Speaker 4: with her, you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean.
Speaker 4: It's just it's just the way it is, like I
Speaker 4: didn't need to marry her to know.
Speaker 2: And recognize her value to me, you know.
Speaker 4: So, I mean it sounds like I'm really making a
Speaker 4: lot of excuses to not get married again.
Speaker 2: But by the way, if.
Speaker 4: I like, all madly in love with somebody who's important
Speaker 4: to them, great, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But I'm not young anymore.
Speaker 4: So a lot of these things that you mistake, even
Speaker 4: his love and like at times where we could be like,
Speaker 4: oh we love each other so much is painful. How
Speaker 4: much of that's love, you know, supposedly you love his
Speaker 4: ego lists? How much of its codependency?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: There's so many other factors, yeah, in life that play
Speaker 4: into what you feel and what you think you need
Speaker 4: that you know, the evidence that I have and have
Speaker 4: love for you is the fact I'm sitting here doing
Speaker 4: this with you right that. You know, we broke up
Speaker 4: twenty some more years ago and there's never been a
Speaker 4: day where like where I wouldn't take your back, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean, Like, that's just that's the reality.
Speaker 4: And I'm not the only X you have that feels
Speaker 4: that way, because I know Rick feels that way about
Speaker 4: you too, So I don't know about all the other exes.
Speaker 2: But they probably that way so well.
Speaker 1: And you guys are really the you know, I was
Speaker 1: telling you earlier that less Need was on the podcast,
Speaker 1: and we have categories that he uses for when he
Speaker 1: drafts right and one of those categories was like buyer
Speaker 1: beware and another one, which is obviously the lowest one
Speaker 1: and then the highest one is a math changer, like
Speaker 1: somebody who really comes in and changes things, like that
Speaker 1: player that you really really want.
Speaker 3: And I said that you were the math changer.
Speaker 1: I was like, Rob was always a math changer, like
Speaker 1: he was just you know, yes, we were young, and
Speaker 1: there were some mistakes made here and there, but you
Speaker 1: were the math changer. I think you still are. And
Speaker 1: then Rick, who you obviously know, I still adore. I
Speaker 1: love him, he loves me, just like our relationship he
Speaker 1: was in there.
Speaker 4: Beware well, he has different demons than me, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean.
Speaker 2: He's a solid.
Speaker 1: Cat, and he's solid I mean, but he's just a
Speaker 1: guy too.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot to like about Rick.
Speaker 4: Again, I don't know him super super well, but every
Speaker 4: exchange I've ever had.
Speaker 2: With the guy a crack off. I think he's dope.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But you know, we all bring something to the
Speaker 4: table of a relationship, and that is ourselves, for good.
Speaker 2: And bad, and you know, and.
Speaker 3: And it's also what you learn from the other person, right,
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's just what you learned by like proxy, right,
Speaker 4: Like what you see, what I see you go through,
Speaker 4: what you see me going through? You know how I
Speaker 4: deal with that versus how you might deal with it.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: We get to have these experiences that are kind of shared,
Speaker 4: even if they're not really.
Speaker 2: Both people's experiences. You know, it's like.
Speaker 4: It's I mean, some of the biggest lessons of my life.
Speaker 4: I think we're watching things happen to other people. You know,
Speaker 4: it's like my dad. My dad passed away too. Ironically,
Speaker 4: I didn't even tell you this, but doctor Chu took
Speaker 4: out my dad's brain tumor.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, and I love that guy. It was awesome.
Speaker 4: But but you know, watching that year of what my
Speaker 4: dad was going through taught me about you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, mostly.
Speaker 2: About mortality and how to look at that. You know.
Speaker 1: But your dad was a little bit like my dad
Speaker 1: in the sense of like these big guys who you
Speaker 1: just thought they were like indestructible, I mean they were
Speaker 1: and sort of larger than life. In a way, your
Speaker 1: dad was definitely larger than life.
Speaker 2: They were.
Speaker 4: They were old school East Coast dudes. A day was
Speaker 4: a Jersey guy, my dad a Brooklyn guy. I mean
Speaker 4: they were, you know, they were.
Speaker 3: Get over here. A kid like your dad almost.
Speaker 4: Probably certainly be. And I mean, again, I love my dad.
Speaker 4: I miss him.
Speaker 2: He was you know, he was.
Speaker 4: He served in the military. He was definitely a tougher
Speaker 4: street cat. But he would one hundred percent be categorized
Speaker 4: that's a toxic man, not even a doubt, you know,
Speaker 4: by today's like criteria. He was like straight up cigarettes,
Speaker 4: smoke out and they have a quit until you know,
Speaker 4: he had lung cancer and died. You want a cigarette
Speaker 4: the smoke of cigarette again as long as I lived.
Speaker 4: But you know, they were a different breed a man
Speaker 4: that were that was born in the forties, fifties.
Speaker 2: It was just different. Everything's different, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's I loved him so much. When I saw
Speaker 1: him at the hospital, it was.
Speaker 2: Like he was so he started to cry when you
Speaker 2: showed up. Yeah, he was like yeah, it was it was.
Speaker 3: That'll make me cry just talking about your dad and
Speaker 3: showing up the hut.
Speaker 2: Hey man, I was yeah, And I remember being at
Speaker 2: your dad's.
Speaker 4: Funeral and then you see me and starting to cry
Speaker 4: and it was like heavy, man, there's.
Speaker 3: Heavy a lot together.
Speaker 4: Well that but that's the amazing thing about love and
Speaker 4: friendship and history with each other is like you know
Speaker 4: the times to pop in and now you know what
Speaker 4: I mean. Even when you said, hey, would you come
Speaker 4: on the Potos, like, of course I'd come on your podcast,
Speaker 4: You're like really, I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, of course, I mean, you know, why wouldn't I.
Speaker 3: You know, so yeah, I mean it's not like I
Speaker 3: want to get up.
Speaker 2: And hug you at him on the podcast, I'm crying.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like I would have every you know, excellon,
Speaker 1: but like you and are significant to me, and also
Speaker 1: because I still adore both of you, and I still
Speaker 1: always I walk away from either a phone conversation or
Speaker 1: seeing you in person with something different, whether I've learned
Speaker 1: something or a new feeling or I always view things
Speaker 1: as like we have these little invisible strings right right
Speaker 1: that sort of stretch out forever, and when you find
Speaker 1: someone that you connect with on that soul level that
Speaker 1: we were talking about, that string always stays there. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's not as thick as it was, but it's always
Speaker 1: You're still always.
Speaker 3: Tethered together in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: So, by the way, before I forget this for the
Speaker 1: people listening who were always asking where my pre wore
Speaker 1: a diamond heart necklace, you guys, the diamond heart necklace
Speaker 1: Uncharmed that prew wre was a gift from Rob.
Speaker 2: Do you want an the craziest thing.
Speaker 4: I was at Quinnox They, for whatever reason, at the
Speaker 4: times I'm in there in the morning, they're running Charmed.
Speaker 4: And this is maybe a couple of weeks ago, and
Speaker 4: I was watching you and I saw that necklace and
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I gave her that fucking necklace
Speaker 4: I remembers so crazy.
Speaker 1: There's somebody on Instagram who breaks down all of like
Speaker 1: the wardrobe from the show episode and she keeps them
Speaker 1: mentioning the diamond.
Speaker 2: That's cool, man, let's cool you still have that.
Speaker 4: I have like some things you gave me too that
Speaker 4: I think I actually cleaned them like a year ago.
Speaker 2: Like there was just something.
Speaker 4: Like really cool silver necklaces and rings, and it's kind
Speaker 4: of you know, I don't really wear much jewelry, but
Speaker 4: it is kind of funny that I've always tattoos. You
Speaker 4: had a tattoo with my name on it. They called
Speaker 4: up with a bunch of flowers, which totally, by the way,
Speaker 4: I thought it was crazy got my name to begin with.
Speaker 2: So I was.
Speaker 4: Like, right, exactly, any gay name. I didn't have tattoos,
Speaker 4: and back then you probably were like, yeah, my name,
Speaker 4: and I was like, nah, baby, I'm a Jew.
Speaker 2: I can't do that. My dad. My dad would have
Speaker 2: but nobody could tell.
Speaker 4: But like sleeved on like both arms, my chest. You know,
Speaker 4: so if we had been together back then, I'd probably
Speaker 4: have like a giant shannon across my neck or something.
Speaker 3: You know, It's never too late.
Speaker 2: Rob, maybe you.
Speaker 4: Know what it's you know what I could potentially get
Speaker 4: a portrait, you know, I just may like, yobro, what
Speaker 4: do you have the nine or two and over in
Speaker 4: your back?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Do you have any space on your back?
Speaker 2: Left? My back is empty. I just it started.
Speaker 4: I got my son's name when my son was born,
Speaker 4: and I put like a little diamond over it as
Speaker 4: like like symbolism for his mom, which is just a
Speaker 4: funny story anyway, like she would do stuff like it.
Speaker 4: I'd be like to scroll such a gem like but
Speaker 4: I would you kind of CLUSI sarcastically, and then it
Speaker 4: actually stuck is her nickname in a loving way where
Speaker 4: she's the gym.
Speaker 2: She's the gym, right, So.
Speaker 4: I put like the diamond for her, because I've never
Speaker 4: put anybody's names on me, just called eto like alf
Speaker 4: my son, right.
Speaker 2: And then then my dog died. Then Moses died.
Speaker 4: The story I told you about pre thing where you know,
Speaker 4: So then I put his portrait. So then I'm like
Speaker 4: I had to two of them, and mister Cartoon is
Speaker 4: a very well known tattoo artist, did them. And I
Speaker 4: was going to him and I was going to like
Speaker 4: join them together. I don't even know what I was thinking.
Speaker 4: But as I'm driving there, I'm like, wait, I got
Speaker 4: like the one of the most famous tattoo artists in
Speaker 4: the world, and I keep doing things on my chest
Speaker 4: with nobody could see him. So I was like, hey, man,
Speaker 4: what do you think about doing something on the arm,
Speaker 4: And he was like, yo, the arm is prime real
Speaker 4: estate for a tattoo artist. So they start the arm
Speaker 4: and once you start the arm, you start looking at it.
Speaker 2: You like, I need to do more.
Speaker 4: So then I did the whole arm with multiple things.
Speaker 4: Everything on there means something to me. And then I
Speaker 4: would look in the mirror and I'd.
Speaker 2: Be like, oh and sleep.
Speaker 4: It's so weird, Like my brain is crazy. So that
Speaker 4: I started this leave and it's pretty much dumb.
Speaker 3: I wanted like symmetry and in it, Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's possible. With this, It's like it's partially addicted.
Speaker 4: It's addictive, but it's also partially designed, where like something's
Speaker 4: not right, but if it ain't right, like you got
Speaker 4: a problem because you're like covering up, which you know,
Speaker 4: it's not like you can move it around, but you know,
Speaker 4: anywhow I mean.
Speaker 1: I want one like right down my side really well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been wanting it for my dad's name, and like, oh, I.
Speaker 2: Get the guys to do it. I have such great
Speaker 2: guys to do that.
Speaker 1: I just I'm like, yeah, it's all right, I don't
Speaker 1: need it. It's also once you get you know, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can't get infections. Like there's a whole not that
Speaker 1: you're going to get something from attach.
Speaker 2: Is it going to take like some like Alley tattoo Paul?
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, my friend's great, he does it, does it?
Speaker 4: Does it out of the back of his fucking surf
Speaker 4: wagon and Venice Beach take you.
Speaker 2: I have friends with like great, great. I mean my.
Speaker 1: Tattoo now looks like it looks like an anchor, so
Speaker 1: I look like Popeye.
Speaker 2: Oh that's right, because you had the thing underneath and
Speaker 2: you had to cross exactly.
Speaker 1: And then I have to put the band of flowers
Speaker 1: to cover your name, so it looks like an anchor.
Speaker 1: It's so embarrassing. I try to wear pants most of
Speaker 1: the time, so.
Speaker 2: It probably looks great. If you got a sailor out
Speaker 2: and on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the one like one of these like
Speaker 4: little navy shirts.
Speaker 3: Halloween when I when I'm dressed as Popeye.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're adorable. You're fine, you can afford the bad tattoo.
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a really hard question. You
Speaker 1: don't have to answer it. What do you think was
Speaker 1: sort of our greatest moment?
Speaker 2: O greatest thing?
Speaker 1: It's really hard, Yeah, a couple Like what time period?
Speaker 4: I mean, you know what, this weird thing just flashed
Speaker 4: And I don't even the weather came from. Like I
Speaker 4: don't know about great moments also our best but I
Speaker 4: remember you and me, and I have no idea why
Speaker 4: this memory just popped into my head. The miniu as bad.
Speaker 4: You and me were in Venice, Italy. It was late
Speaker 4: at night. You were like, let's go get something to
Speaker 4: eat wherever we're staying. I don't know why we couldn't
Speaker 4: just order something to the room, but you're like, let's
Speaker 4: go get something eat. And for whatever reason, the streets
Speaker 4: were dead right, and we started walking and walking down
Speaker 4: like kind of cowbostone now streets, and some guy who
Speaker 4: was like started to talk to us, but I don't
Speaker 4: remember like if he even like he's like knew very
Speaker 4: little English. You're like, oh, we want food to say,
Speaker 4: He's like he's like, yeah, come this way, so we
Speaker 4: start walking. Then another guy kind of comes out. That
Speaker 4: guy starts speaking to that guy in Italian. I don't
Speaker 4: understand what they're saying. That guy starts following us. One
Speaker 4: guy's leading us, one guy's following us. Nobody else is around.
Speaker 4: I don't remember if there was a third guy, but
Speaker 4: there were definitely the two guys. Guy there was a
Speaker 4: third guy, and you look at me, you go, we'll
Speaker 4: definitely get rolled.
Speaker 2: And I go like this.
Speaker 5: I go, I go what And you go, we'll get
Speaker 5: rolled or something like that, and I'm like, holy shit,
Speaker 5: we'll get robbed in Venice by like these three dudes
Speaker 5: that like we can't communicate with.
Speaker 2: So I'm like all right.
Speaker 4: But it was like you and me in this like
Speaker 4: crazy little what are we gonna do? Kind of Bonnie
Speaker 4: and Clyde ESK, except you know, back then I was
Speaker 4: probably like soap neronic.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, this is crazy. So I remember we
Speaker 2: followed this kid, and we think, well, what's the plan,
Speaker 2: what's the plan, what's the playing? And then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden a restaurant appeared.
Speaker 4: It was like the only like twenty four Yeah, it
Speaker 4: was like the only twenty four hour restaurant thing that
Speaker 4: was like open.
Speaker 2: But I don't know, man, we had.
Speaker 4: Like some fun cool shit, like you know, road trips
Speaker 4: and like, I mean like we had fun to find.
Speaker 4: I mean, we definitely had bad moments like we would
Speaker 4: go to war, but we had good lovely moments too.
Speaker 2: You know. And I mean there's just a lot of
Speaker 2: good stuff.
Speaker 1: I like, I love that whole you know, the whole
Speaker 1: stort of Europe trip.
Speaker 2: Well, the best is we got there. And so again
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 4: We have to reiterate to but we were super young
Speaker 4: at that time. We're like still twenties. So they were like, hey,
Speaker 4: we're going to go to Europe and rough it.
Speaker 3: We'll get on a budget.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you're like, do you guys want to go?
Speaker 4: And you were like I'm going, You're coming. And I
Speaker 4: was like, I'm not going on this trip. You're like
Speaker 4: I'll get you some chrome heartship if you come, and
Speaker 4: I was like remember that, yep. And I was like
Speaker 4: all right, I'm in right, you know, so fashion.
Speaker 2: Ward that I am or whatever.
Speaker 4: So I So we go there and we go to
Speaker 4: Amsterdam and like we're in like a youth hostel with
Speaker 4: five I remember. We get in there and there's five
Speaker 4: beds in a room and you're like, nah, bro now,
Speaker 4: and you just like all of a sudden, you're flipping
Speaker 4: the whole trip around all of a sudden in like
Speaker 4: the sickest fucking places.
Speaker 2: But that was you, man. You were like a boss
Speaker 2: back then.
Speaker 4: Like now everybody's famous at that time, Like you were
Speaker 4: easily one of the more famous faces on the planet
Speaker 4: at that time, you know, so it was like going anywhere,
Speaker 4: like in hindsight, those three guys were probably saying, you know,
Speaker 4: it's a girl from nine O two and oh, and
Speaker 4: they're like, oh, but like we didn't know.
Speaker 2: That, but but you got that sense.
Speaker 3: And it was like huge for me.
Speaker 4: Like people in your office remembered me, yes, because you
Speaker 4: went when we first started dating and I didn't go,
Speaker 4: and you were setting like you had these videos that
Speaker 4: were insane in Italy where people were like outside the
Speaker 4: hotel and you know, you guys were global, like you know,
Speaker 4: the the nine O two and oh cast,